Sage, Witchcraft, and Discipleship

[Music] there you are [Music] hey saints and names welcome to the last episode of season four of 30 minutes with the parries uh uh please don't weep because christ is risen and we'll be back you know that's another quiddos you actually danced you danced to that song on instagram huh where uh don't cry christ as risen yeah you did the most yeah yeah i was kind of embarrassed when uh tammy franklin was like i'm gonna show this to my husband no she did and i was like it was it was the raggediest praise dancer like imitating him wrongly okay have you enjoyed recording this season i have why i could look at your beautiful face your little persian eyes and you know pretty brown skin okay anytime you use stain as an accent that was a bad to describe somebody that was a bad that's just not ever going to work that was a bad adjective you might as well say it blocked that was a bad attitude i apologize a beautiful drop of coffee drop drop so a little modicum you such a small piece of leather but you so well put together we're on patreon i tell jackie she's beautiful every day she just looks at me like i'm a nuisance we're on patreon and because we're on patreon we have like this beautiful people stop okay so we're on patreon and i wrote to all the patreon saints it was like hey we going to answer your questions live on the podcast uh ask us some questions so that's what we want to do we're gonna do a quick little q a or whatever i love when you talk hood that's what we're trying to do i love it it reminds me when i first met you you're so distracted just reminds okay first question uh miracle said hey jackie would you disciple me laugh emoji laugh emoji i'm halfway joking no no and this is why this is why discipleship i believe is something that is best had in community right so there's discipleship uh aspects to what we both do right like when i'm leading when i'm teaching a sermon or even this conversation it's useful and it can bear fruit in your life insofar as you apply it and believe the word and all the things but real authentic discipleship i believe is like what jesus had with the disciples where they was with this man no abs absolutely yeah because because like literally like when we think about discipleship historically we have to understand it like that that was how you know people learn from their rabbis which was teachers back in the day it's like typically they didn't learn from people by like you know looking at them on the stage teaching or whatever or just meeting at a coffee shop or whatever and going over a couple scriptures it's like no like most most rabbis in that day like john the baptist he had disciples who followed him and when john the baptist saw jesus walking past one day and his disciples they said like jesus where are you staying they ain't acting that because they wanted to see his house they literally was like no we want to see how you live to learn from you and so i think to to want to be discipled about somebody who you don't have close proximity with it's not even um realistic you know what i'm saying and i don't think this way god intended it to be uh it's possible i don't know i don't think big real no so what we do is we still influence and and disciples people in a way i think deep discipleship that's what i'm talking about yeah requires some proximity for one you don't know my life right and so you you're even asking the question based on who you perceive me to be according to pictures videos and my words but real discipleship is when you get up close to jackie and say oh like this is actually how she treats her husband this is actually how she responds to her children this is actually how she spends her time yeah you know what i'm saying because discipleship isn't just what i'm able to articulate it's also what i'm able to model yeah and so yeah i'm i've moved on from critiquing you i was just no no i i know i wasn't gonna say i wasn't gonna critique you i'm just saying like i think that even when jesus was was like discipling his disciples i think that it was people that that gleaned from him when he like taught on the sermon on the mount and stuff like that right but i think that when you have close proximity to a person and you can learn from somebody i think that just changes the game when you can see how they love their wife yeah how they love their spouse how they respond to their neighbor i think that's when you get to the nitty-gritty of discipleship when you discipline folks in person you can actually see how they live right yeah because when it's just on zoom or email or whatever the case may be you could be like oh yeah i've been in my word and i've been praying and i've been fasting but when i'm able to actually watch you for two hours and see your attitude yeah i'm saying and see like little things about you that needs to to to be addressed it just it just makes it all the more uncomfortable but that much more fruitful yeah so praise god that is a no um let's see deidra hey deidre or is it dear dre i think it's deidre i get it dear dre dear dre i don't know so dee dee parker says how do you view god in creativity if i were to reword it or rephrase it they probably mean you know when it comes to being creative how do you see god in it or how do you seek god for it maybe yeah god and creativity god and creativity yeah i don't know i think i think it's beautiful when we look in the scriptures the first thing that we see about god is that he is a creator you know god created the earth you know god created man in his image and so i think one of the the first things that we should think about in being created in the mag in the imago day is that no god you know has made all of us creative because we are a reflection of of him and so i don't know if the question is well it's really for you so for me when it comes to being creative the way i see god in it is really what you said is one believing the truth that god himself is creative yeah and if god himself is creative then he can make me creative too um but i think what's really helpful for people i remember when we lived in chicago one person that used to be around us all the time since all of us were like poets she wasn't a poet so she used to feel like she wasn't an artist like she wasn't creative but it's like you don't have to be musical or draw or do poetry to be creative like if you got a you if you do spreadsheets you know if you're real good with excel like there's a way to be creative in the way you even do stuff administrating i'd be sending that's what i'm saying like that that's that's a creative gift too and so that's one thing is to say like god ain't playing favorites when it comes to gifting people with the ability to be creative yeah and also too i think for the for the christian who is exploring their creativity is to not settle with just talking about jesus and thinking that's good enough because i think when we first started to do poetry and we first started to get in these creative spaces we took being a child of god as a challenge and saying man is there's no way that someone who doesn't have the holy spirit should be operating in their creativity so we wanted to go in spaces and do poetry and secular spaces and talk about jesus but we want our writing to be just as good as any secular poet yeah yeah yeah having the mindset that when i go into space i want to be great upset because i was created by somebody great and i'll serve somebody that's great and so i think that we should have that mindset we should want to kill you know what makes jesus what makes creativity very hard is what's the word comparison because comparison kills when when you think that your kind of creativity is not creative enough yeah then you actually weaken your ability to be creative because the whole thing about being creative is you being you like i said this on instagram it's like the way that god made you the way that you think the way that you've been nurtured the way you see the world the way you talk the way you move the friendships you have the way you look at the bible all of that informs your ability to be creative because it means that you are complete like you are a whole person that is completely distinct from everybody that exists on it you know why comparison robs us so much please tell me because it prevents like the the greatest artist in the world the reason why they were able to be celebrated around the world is because they did a great job of inviting people into their mind they explained right and so basquiat right like oh you think he's the greatest no i'm just saying i'm just throwing out an artist but i'm just saying like artists who who are creative like you know when you're not inviting people into the way you think but you're borrowing from somebody else and trying to like operate of somebody else's creativity and vision and so like i think the greatest artists like they're sharing a reflection of who they are yes and so i think when you compare yourself to somebody yeah it's like you rob yourself of the god-given creativity that god is putting you because you're looking at their creativity and so like you know like i think that's when we was traveling with the poets in auburn tour i think that's what made it special is because i couldn't say metaphors like jeanette and i couldn't do double entendres like ezekiel and i couldn't you know do um as many metaphors in one sentence like you but i can i can tell stories well right you know and so we all had that that thing that made us us and i think that's what made it beautiful you know what i'm saying that's beautiful so i would add this because now we're on this this this uh soapbox pray for it we be praying for everything else we'd be praying you know that god sent us a spouse that god will give us a job but just like no like if you're a writer you're a singer you're whatever sit down and ask god to help you be creative literally every time i write a book or a sermon i am asking god to help me be creative literally and you don't even think to ask that for a sermon but i say no like god help me approach the text and articulate it in a way that is creative and winsome and solid but creative so that i'm able to bring out things in the text that people are used to that they may not have heard or seen in that way like it takes creativity to do that and god is able to give us that power if we would just ask him amen marissa crousen said how do you close the gap between what you say you believe about god and how you actually live your life application for example it's how like how i like i believe the gospel but how i spend my time what i worry about what's important to me shows that i don't quite trust god like i say i do excellent question that's a good question you want to take it first for me man i think for me um me applying what i know really boils down to what i i feel in the times where i don't apply what i know is that those are the times i have a problem with believing that god is like truly who he says he is in my life and this is what i mean i think that the more secure i become in god in whatever area in my life i can i i then i'm then able to apply what i read and what i know and i'm not as anxious and i'm not as fearful and i'm not as sinful in those seasons does that make sense yes and so i think that like really truly like because because it's one thing about like knowing things right and and reading things but it's another thing when it comes to like believing things and i think that we have this overall arching belief of god but sometimes our belief in who he is wavers and i think that my application begins to waver when i just start to believe that maybe you know god isn't going to show up or god isn't going to be with me or god isn't going to you know um i don't know you know show up in my life the way he did in other seasons and so i think uh for me it's like the book of deuteronomy is so great because the whole book is is really uh encouraging them to remember i think i think we we lose faith um and in those times and losing faith um we have a hard time applying what we know because we simply don't remember the god of the past and so because we don't remember the god of the past it it it doesn't it doesn't um propel us to like you know trusting the god of in the future and and in the present so that's for me i think one element of the problem is that we don't know what belief we don't know what belief is right and so you have jesus who says you know you believe believe that god is one the demons believe that too so there is a kind of faith that doesn't actually change behavior it's only an uh uh an acknowledgement of a truth yeah right so i can acknowledge that god is one but his trinity doesn't actually change how i live my life or how i pray or how i study until i treat it as true yeah right and so i think that's has to be the way we define belief is i have to treat this as reality yeah so paul says lay your life down uh as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable unto god uh that's coming in on day i think the way you like my fake son to treat that text as true is to believe that god is the lord of my body if i treat that as true then it's it's like nah like my body is his my body was made for him my body is useful to him my body can be be be yeah that it'll be glorified one day all the things and so what that does is it informs all of my relationships now so if i meet a dude that's like hey let's smash nope my body belongs to the lord smack my body like smash means sex yes i know somebody's looking at the dictionary what does smash mean so treating that as true immediately determines or changes how i live my life because it just it rules everything yeah i'm saying and so i don't know i really feel like i over complicated that no i was actually really good but that's i tried to be as practical as i as i possibly could but i also think that a really uh a practice or discipline that we need to develop is when we see ourselves responding in a way that is unbiblical interrogating that so not to the point of shame and hopelessness yeah because there's a kind of inward interrogate interrogation that actually leaves you more discouraged because the enemy comes inside of that it accuses you right yeah yeah but i think there's a healthy interrogation that says huh i know what the bible says but i'm responding this way why yeah and i think underneath that is where you can start to find some things about god that you actually don't believe is true you just know it is in the bible and that's the reason why the new testament god calls us to test ourselves a lot like test yourself to see if you're really into faith test yourself um you know putting false prophets among you to test you and so like i think that we have to continue to test ourselves and be real with ourselves and like man i'm responding to this way to this particular thing in this way why you know what i'm saying let me take it to the lord yep um and he's good he is good the holy spirit really does next question help us all right so there were two questions one by leah one by irvina i suppose that deals with people dealing with like occult practices or new age spirituality and so i guess if you had a friend who you know is burning sage all the time and crystals or like you know there's a rise in black women uh embracing witchcraft and tarot cards and like yeah how do we what we supposed to think about that well one thing that i'll say for people who are dealing with friends who are dealing with these quote unquote new things to know that it's not new when when the bible says nothing new under the sun like you know it's just repeated sins done in different ways but it's really nothing new i mean the bible uh and and you know the early church dealt with things like mysticism and all kind of you know sorcery and rich craft even in you know in jesus day and before jesus day and so um to know it's nothing new um and so like the devil really doesn't create he just perverts and so he's always going to try to find something new to pervert and you know present it to a people and make them think that they have explored something new that the world isn't up on and he's just deceiving people out here and so with that being said though i think that when we deal with people who are in this new age um witchcraft when it's located a lot of this stuff is witchcraft you know just no harky yeah hockey yeah um demonic i ain't saying if you burn sage you a witch no though no a lot of it is i'm just saying you might have learned it from some from some witches yeah yeah what um oh cause we got to recognize it's seasoning okay yeah we we put this in dressing it flavors it and it it's not it's not changing energy yeah you know what changes energy prayer yeah i just don't want the people to think that the actual the sage is what's evil though the heart it's the heart it's the heart of it it's the golden calf was not evil and your dressing we are already it's already inflation you know what sage probably gonna cost come november and you oh you're burning it it don't even smell good i can't even think of the word sage when i think about our one-year-old yeah go ahead okay but uh but yeah what was happening to say you didn't get me off my little i'm so sorry no what i was gonna say was um i think that we have to understand that a lot of times sin creates other sin and so i think what the devil does is and when i'm not when i'm when i'm saying this i'm thinking about a lot of black women who have ventured into this you know um i think what satan does he takes a lot of times the oppression of sometimes a people and instead of them running to jesus he gives them another idol to run to and so i think a lot of women that i've talked to out in the streets they are tired of being powerless and so i think that a lot of these new age religions and you know this witchcraft gives them a a door to to gain some type of autonomy and power uh and it's just not black women i think it's just all people i think that these that these um that these new age religions and this stuff uh creates in them you know their own sense of like being their own god you know when it's really just you're not you're being really deceived by the devil and so i think a way to deal with people like that is to one empathize with what you know what drove them to that place in the first place so i think that if we only deal with the issue at hand and say man what you're doing is wrong what you're doing is wrong and they're just gonna look at you like a christian who just wants them to stop doing what they're doing but you know a couple of you know months back me and my videographer ken we talked to a woman who worshipped our ancestors and instead of being over the head with scripture i wanted to talk about what drove her to believe these things in the first place like what drove her to it and then when you got to the nitty-gritty you saw that it was molestation you saw that it was the church abandoning her you saw that it was her mom not believing her when she said this she was molested she saw that it was deep deep hurt and so i think what she did was she ran to something that she felt like she could control and i think that's the way the devil deceives people over and over again these people fail you these people let you down i have something better okay i have something demonic that will destroy you and so i think that we have to recognize what drove people to these things in the first place yeah witchcraft started in the garden uh when when eve and adam decided to get power apart from god's will and i i i really do believe that that's at the root of it but i actually feel like some of the responsibility is on the church because we are a church full of the holy spirit right uh able to walk in all kinds of power but if people don't see that that power is accessible to them then obviously they're going to go where they see the power is available at uh but power all the same yeah it's not power to overcome sin but it is power to change uh non-eternal circumstances because demons are they have powers it's limited but like lisa fields was talking to this girl on her ju-3 courageous conversation situation and she said that the the way that she got into african spiritualism is that her um her boyfriend or somebody had died and she was seeing him like seeing him in her room and having like these visions of dead people and stuff and she went to the church and she went to some of the elders that she knew it was like hey this is what's happened to me and they was like no you just you just sad you just grieving like ain't nothing going on but then she was introduced to like this uh group of like african spiritualists who were helped that gave her language and validated her experience with seeing these spirits or whatever you whatever may have you so now she's not a christian she's not in the church she's in this realm because somebody validated the fact that there is a spiritual reality at play that it is scaring me i need something to do with it but when you got christians that are so afraid of the supernatural why do you why are you surprised when they gonna find supernatural means to handle natural stuff you know what i'm saying yeah and so i think a part of it is not just being so so theologically astute that we actually miss the supernatural aspect of our faith we literally serve a resurrected lord that's supernatural he literally said that our bodies and our souls are going to meet in the resurrection that's supernatural we literally have a holy ghost that we cannot see that's supernatural you got people praying and being led by the spirit and saying things about people's lives that they would not otherwise know that's supernatural so you can keep reading the bible all you want but if you're not tapping into the supernatural you can't even discern it right so let's let's not you said a mouthful i did it's good though so annie kenworthy that sounds like somebody made up your last name like they say you know what i don't want to be jenkins no more i like ken i think he's worth a lot so we gonna be kenworthy she said any advice on how to make the most of therapy i'll go first because you've been going first all the questions because i'm the head ain't it cause you've been stepping all into like i've been like oh i'ma say this and then you say it and then i have to come up with something else uh i'll be saying what she's gonna say yeah literally on the witchcraft question i was like okay what's another rabbit hole i can go down but anywho i that's a really good question because i realized over the last two years i know some people that be talking about they going to therapy all the time and they're still toxic it's like what is your therapist saying to you like do they not see what i see like why they not addressing this issue and so i realized that there is a way to engage in therapy they actually don't even do nothing for you what do you think it is you think it's them not being honest in therapy well the therapist is stressed one you paying this person so you picking the therapist because some people are so addicted to self-deceit that they will get a therapist that won't even help them just so they can have a therapist whoa just so they can um you just want them to affirm you and tell you like the surface level issues that you already know that you have and when i let us get to the root and low-key when i first when we first started talking about therapy which was a couple years back it wasn't as cool i think that i think going to therapy is kind of the new way it was kind of like oh yeah i'm taking care of my mental health girl i'm going you know what i'm saying but are you it's like are you though like because you still toxic so and and talk to me it's a pro it's a process no it is a process but it's some stuff that's like basic it's like you're a terrible friend like it don't know how much therapy does one need right to become a better friend yeah i just i just don't understand so i think one way to make the most of therapy is actually to be honest with yourself about the kind of therapist you pick yeah because there are some therapists that will coddle you there are some therapists like i i know an individual who their bent is manipulation right and their therapist coddles them in such a way that i don't even think the therapist sees that the person is manipulating them even in the answers that they give them does that make sense yeah and so i think there's a level of like honesty and integrity that you have to have in who you decide to uh pick counsel you in that way i think another thing is therapy cannot be your only therapy or a therapist cannot be the only therapist so what i mean is having a therapist is great but talking through what you and your therapist are discussing within community with people that know you outside of the office is helpful too absolutely because they'll be able to actually go deeper or expose or add color to the conversation that you and your therapist has yeah another thing is um you you talk about honesty i mean honestly the therapist that we pick but i think that before that i think that we we have to make it up in our minds that we're going to be honest with ourselves before we are honest with our therapist because i think that when some years back when you was telling me i need therapy i need therapy and he was in therapy for some years and i was like i don't need therapy as long as you get therapy we're going to be good and then when you finally convinced me it was i was deceived yeah and we'll win too but when you it's very urgent look it's my past sins i didn't let that go no i was out speaking on all 1600 men who think that their wives need therapy and they don't yeah yeah yeah but go ahead but when you when i finally went to therapy um i made it up in my mind that i'm going to be honest completely honest when i go and sit down with this therapist because if i don't i'm going to waste my time and my money you know what i'm saying and so like it's hard you know but like don't go into therapy with your mind made up that i'm gonna give half truth that i'm gonna leave this exposed and and and and not expose this it's like if you're gonna do it be all the way in and i think that it might be hurtful painful but i think at the end you will benefit and so you know a couple of turns to being honest with yourself i think is i just just came to my mind what you talking is sorry if you're a people pleaser because i've had times in therapy where i even want to please my therapist you know what i'm saying and so that kind of gets in the way of my vulnerability because i want to impress you instead of being honest yeah like and it's not even that i'm lying is that i'm not exposing i'm not being willing to be as weak in front of you as possible because i i'm afraid to to be there that was my that was my thing you know and my and gratefully we got a good therapist um but she was just like you've been you've been being tough your whole life mm-hmm and you've been hiding stuff your whole life it's so much in you mm-hmm look at the way your shoulders is and she was like i don't like that i don't like them like why you gotta point out my body language and so yeah a good therapist can bring that out but if you don't they'll see it and they'll they'll expose it in time um but i was gonna say underneath that is also shame shame is a really uh uncomfortable feeling yeah and so to be honest with yourself is to have to deal with the fact that you're not as perfect or as beautiful or as wonderful or smart or as or as uh overcoming yeah as you think that you actually are facts and so but that's okay because that's honesty that's where humility is yeah is when we actually embrace reality reality as it is but also a reality about ourselves and that's how we grow up is being like oh i do suck right so what yeah so ashley rayley said have you experienced a season where you just didn't feel close to god after you had been saved and if so how did you navigate that season i think i've told this story before but i think that's the thing that pops up to me the most is um a year after being a christian they that first year i was just on fire for the lord and um i often told the story about how after that year i feel like i um i gave up so many things um you know secular music smoking weed all of these things but the sin that i kept falling in was fornication i just couldn't stop um you know finding myself in bad situations with women and i i fell into a deep depression and it got to the point where i didn't believe that i was a christian because i couldn't overcome this particular sin and um i kind of went back into the world and then i got challenged by the dude who discipled me to really just seek the lord and pray and um yeah and i was just honest with the lord i think uh me being in that in that place um i i looking back now i see that i love the lord and i was convicted over that scene i just couldn't conquer it and i remember just being honest with the lord and saying lord i can't defeat this particular sin i'm trying i'm trying i'm trying and all of that and uh i prayed and asked the lord to reveal to me if i was really in him and he did so by just doing something very small by allowing me to see a fight online and i began to weep at the computer for this dude who was you know getting beat up and i was like yo i've been seeing crazy stuff all my life why am i crying and the lord kind of spoke to my heart it was like that's because your heart is new and it just it just you know revitalized me and from there i i've always kind of had that um that same motto when i fall into seasons where i'm not like on fire it's just gonna be completely honest with god i'm just completely honest like god i do not want to spend time with you help me yeah you know what i'm saying because the thing about god is that we need help from god to obey god we need help from that we need help from god to love god and so i think a lot of times when we don't feel like that we don't feel that love we try to we try to muster it up from somewhere else and it's like no actually to love me more you have to come to me yeah yeah for it you know what i'm saying and so like i'm just really i'm just honest and just real with god like god i don't i don't feel like waking up talking to you and um god is a he's a he's a he's he's mature way more mature than us and i think that he can deal with it he can take it and he can help us you know two reasons uh people might feel distant from god it's one there's idolatry or two there's immaturity yeah idolatry is there's some sin in your life and because of that sin your heart isn't as soft as it used to be your conscience isn't as soft as it used to be you just kind of made a lot of excuses for little sin but it's the little leaven that leaves the whole lump it's the little foxes that we have to watch out for and i i think christians miss how important it is to maintain a sensitive heart meaning like to just to never just make any provision for the flesh they don't mean we make mistakes but i think deliberately and continuously turning away from god in small minor decisions makes us less likely to sense his presence or his call or uh you know or even care about what we read in the scriptures our worship with a full inflamed heart and so i think that that's important is that we need to get to the root of man do i have some idols in my life that i've been holding on to that's keeping me from sensing or like feeling near to god but i think on the other end there's also immaturity and i got that from tim keller because tim keller said you know that you're a mature christian when you don't need to feel close to god to know you're close to god and it has to get to a point where i know what i know even if i don't feel it right like i have to know that god is everywhere i have to know that god has filled me i have to know that god loves me i have to know that there is nothing in heaven on earth that will keep me from god that he is with me and will never leave me nor forsake me that's reality that it don't always feel like that yeah right and so i think if you feel that in marriage all the time no that's real talk so i think if you ex if you if you need a feeling to confirm your nearness to god then you will always be very double-minded because you're going to feel things all the time and the devil can play on that because he could play with your little emotions why you feel like that yeah what i'm saying so now i feel like i don't love you god ain't with me because i don't feel them you don't have to feel anything yeah just know what you know and if either god is with you or you ain't that's good i messed that on that so i appreciate y'all for for being with us for season four if you want more exclusives and all the things go to www.patreon.com forward slash with the paris or you can go to withtheparries.com and actually season five is gonna be around the corner yeah man we releasing season five this same year so y'all ain't gotta wait another 12 months for another season and we ain't having no more babies so you ain't got to wait to see that that's done that's good that's done [Music] and i'm saying we're not having a starting lineup [Music] 30 minutes with the parries is a production of ivy media podcast edited by angie elkins video recording and audio production by ken powell artwork by hop and music by swoop join us on patreon for early access to with the perry's episodes and other exclusives you got two options you can go to www.patreon.com forward slash with the parries or just go ahead scroll you'll find the link in our show notes we are the parries thank you all for listening now go with god you

Channel: With The Perrys

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Id: HyTFJliuH-k

Length: 36min 52sec (2212 seconds)

Published: Thu Sep 08 2022