Preston & Jackie Hill Perry: Are Headship and Submission Issues of Competence or Calling?

hello Saints how y'all doing that was like for y'all how all y'all doing y'all hit me on his mic okay you bet if the Saints in the bad blood talking just disobedient my name is Preston Perry like my brother TJ said and I'm Jackie Hill Perry and we're married Yeah right yeah that rhymes did you hear it in your spirit sometimes sometimes people refer to us as Perry's but used to refer to us as Preston and Jackie today we're gonna be doing a workshop on headship and Submission is a matter of competence and calling and I'm glad that all you guys are here to share with us my wife is gonna share some words and then we'll go right into it no you suppose tell the people who you are oh okay yeah so my name is Preston I just help them yeah I'm uh I'm a little black boy from the south side of Chicago we have a beautiful daughter eating Gracie Perry at home who tries to drink out of the toilet and drink bleach occasionally yeah and a couple of years ago well more than couple years ago like five six years ago I met my beautiful wife Jackie Hill Perry at a poetry event copy for CM lyricist lounge and literally she blew my mind away yeah she did she was tight like did you hear God like a media say like like she's yours is that what you heard no I didn't hear that but but in all seriousness though like I just started doing Christian poetry around the time and I didn't know a lot of good poets in general so I definitely know they know a lot of good female poets and I was sitting in the audience like yo like who is this and her and genetics of course they just blew my mind after that I think we did a workshop in LA a poetry workshop and we just kind of became friends for three years we were friends I wasn't fill in her I was in romance power I wasn't I wasn't feeling good I'm being real it wasn't yeah I thought she was cute no you just said it like I was a relevation I'm gonna stand I wasn't but after three years like I start to do some weird stuff in my heart I'm like yo like I went to my friend so like he'll I think I think Jackie is cute I don't know if I like her like you like a president everybody know you like I'm like yeah I do like her so I went to my friend genetics and I told you genetics that man I feel like God is pursuing me to leave I'm to pursue Jackie and I was terrified one I thought if I pursued her that it was gonna do two things make our relationship really awkward because if y'all know Jackie she got this look like what you don't say or it just kind of ruin our friendship and I was afraid but after just prayer prayer prayer I finally pursued her and uh and I called her one day and so I was like yo Jackie I feel like everything that I pray for and a wife you are it come on here too soon to know if if I can pursue you and then three years later you have a baby do you want me to tell my story yeah did you just want to lead maybe she was gonna be different but - the truth sound sound guy would you be able to turn up his mic a little bit thank you I don't know what's happening so yeah when I met him we met each other in 2008 and I was probably a believer for maybe six or seven months when we had met originally and so he was doing this Punk also ties with our friend Johan and I thought it was a cool poem like okay whatever cool and then he came boom boom boom no I thought it was cool and so he he came up to me at the end of the night and complimented me on the poem and then I was like oh thank you but about your poem I think you were holding back you could have you know could have went a little harder or whatever I did say it and then I liked it I like strong women good the holiest viewer has helped me to filter my bluntness but at the same time I think the type of person he is he's attracted to people who aren't fake he's attracted to illness and so I was able to identify a lack in even his ministry that God used me to help I think God was just showing me that I was a helper early the feedback it's just weird I don't know if I should step back or I'm sorry doing shows you just hear weird sound thing so I didn't like him though because if anybody knows my story I used to be gay so I had just like broke up with my girlfriend like six months prior I wasn't tripping off no dude you know what I'm saying facial hair their hands are big you know clammy it was just really strange so I needed looks good to do working me first but over the course of sometime over the course of discipleship and just growing an intimacy with God I just started to grow this attraction this affection towards him that I didn't really understand I just thought that was thirsty I was like maybe I just you know and for maybe I just need somebody to text you know I just that might be just what it is but and I told my disciple err and she was like just give it to the Lord like just keep submitting that attraction to him so for a year straight I just continued to pray and just tell God how I felt about Preston but it got to a point where I felt like my affections were rising to rising in such a way where I would start flirting and people have their own opinions of our flirtation for me I feel like flirtation can be a subtle pursuit of men and so for me I felt like that was something I needed to lay before the Lord and so it came to a point I was like you know what father I don't know what your will is for me oppressing this was my exact very I don't know what your will is for me and Preston but if it is your will for us to be together I pray that you will put it on his heart to pursue me because I believe that's what you call men to do but if it is your will for us to be friends then please give me the self-control to treat him like a brother and not like a crush and so that's the back story of the week Prime let me just touching that real quick I'm sorry sorry about that it's alright I want to touch on that real quick somebody left a phone up here I don't know who phone this is but it's not mine if it's TJ's yeah but anyways I thought that was very much a cassette I thought it was very key because I was the type of person that if I knew a girl like me or if I knew that she had any attraction towards me I kind of wasn't feeling her oh I always wanted to pursue my wife and like I said I got for like six seven months I question should I pursue Jackie but now one time that I ever ever get any indication that she liked me we spent summers together and I never ever ever thought that she liked me and I always respected her for that all through our relationship because I think that if I if she liked me it would have changed a whole lot it would have changed the whole lot it would have messed up my pursuit in a lot of ways and I think that that's just evident that God wants the man to pursue the woman and I think that's what happened so thank you for that Jack amen I mean this part of Holy Spirit in part I have a great poker face so when I play spades you're not gonna know that I have an ace and a joker okay but you're silly I am alright but anyways so we're doing a workshop called headship and Submission is it a matter of competence or calling so a couple of a couple of months back like five or six months ago I made a Facebook post that calls kind of a stir on social media I made a Facebook post and my facebook posts read this it said leadership does not always mean being more equipped there was a picture of me and Jackie and the caption said this leadership that's not always mean being more equipped true leadership isn't loving a woman into submission sometimes our wives can be smarter can be wiser and even more talented than us but if we love them fearlessly they will allow us to leave them I want to sleep not thinking anything about the boats okay and I woke up and saw my surprise my posting went viral I mean like super var I woke up to like like five hundred comments and you know like if you know about Facebook when something goes viral more people than who follow you is commenting right so I had Christians arguing non-believers I had like six different like feminist groups like just bashing me like when I tell you they were angry like at my post some of them accused me of manipulating my wife into submitting to me some of the comments were like if she is wiser and smarter and talented why can't she why why can't she leaves you you misogynist be yeah that's what I that's what I that's what I got in my head you know I was just like man like well the hatred you know I mean and uh it was just really really weird to me for those who don't those who don't know my wife I probably can see how they can probably assume that Jackie can be manipulated but if you do know my wife it's kind of hard to manipulate her as I was like these cats don't really know what they're talking about but I honestly made the post to encourage me I didn't I wasn't even thinking about the women per se so it kind of caught me off guard and the reason why I wrote the made the post it's got to a small group and I my disciple brothers in my home and my hometown and in my home church and a lot of brothers that I recycle and talk to feel inadequate in their marriage they feel like this because they don't make the enough money or or more money than their wife or that they would not educate it as a wife that they're inadequate to lead so I did this to encourage them but the uproar the uproar that my post calls did a couple of things for me one it gave me a deeper understanding in which the ways our culture does not understand biblical marriage Jean Piper says it like this and I think he sums it up perfectly in this quote he said the wonder of marriage is woven into the wonder of the gospel of the cross of Christ and the message of the cross of Christ is foolish to a natural man so the meaning of marriage is foolish to a natural man it is identity the second thing for me it showed me how much more me and my wife should talk about complementarianism and Biblical manhood and biblical women hood and settings like this so a couple of days later they gave me the idea I said Jack you know what we should do a facebook live and a periscope about headship and some and a lot of people like that I don't know if some of you in here saw it but a lot of people liked it it got some good responses and a lot of people were blessed by it so here we are and this is the reason why we're doing a workshop on it today so I hope today that you walk away with a clearer understanding of what true biblical womanhood and manhood is and what God thinks about it but before we dig into it Jackie's got a quick word for you guys and then we'll go right into it I think anytime you talk about biblical womanhood and manhood especially now I feel like we are in a culture that is increasingly in opposition to everything that the Bible has to say about what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman and I truly believe that that is because all of this has to do with glory if you look at Genesis 1:27 when it says that God made male and female in his image and his in his likeness he he gave them gender and he gave them gender distinctions for his glory and so if we know anything about Satan then we understand that Satan hates God's glory and so if Satan hates God's glory then you have to know that he will frustrate something in you to hate it as well to hate those distinctions to think that they should be blurred to think that they should be something different than what the Bible says that it is I say all that to say I want you to be aware that some of the things that we will say might trigger you some of the things that we say might bring up some things in you that you don't like but I want to warn you and and and and kind of caution you against having a cynical attitude towards the Word of God because and you know if there is cynicism in you it's because you've been believing the world a bit too long you've been listening to the world a bit too much you've been gleaning from ideas of womanhood from people that don't know who created women and so I want you to even pray and seek and beg for God to unveil your eyes and to make his word be something beautiful to you where you see womanhood not as a constraint where you see womanhood not as a boundary to enslave you some misogynist men and patriarchy but you really see it as a means to make gospel or the gospel look good because at the end of the day that's what this is about this is not about us being women for the sake of being women are being men for the sake of being men this is about us making God look good and so I wanted to preface with that do you want to pray for us let us pray maybe gonna get right in support definitely follow LOI thank you for this day this is the day that you have made and we will rejoice be glad in it we thank you God that you created us in your image all of us to be image bearers of you we thank you God that you sent your son who knew no sin to become sin so that we can become the righteousness of God we thank you God for this conference for bringing men and women from all over the country to hear about God and to role in godliness and God as we continue to just embark in your word and dig in your scriptures about headship its mission I pray that she would help us help me in Jacqui humble our hearts keep us from error but allow your Holy Spirit to come in the midst of us and dwell with us God we ask these things in Jesus name Amen husband can we go off-script real quick yes okay so my spouse here he's an apologist he he's one of those people that when you see the host witness on the street he doesn't keep going he just stops to talk to him and I like we love people love thy neighbor that's what the Gospels calls us to do but the way my introvert is set up and my social anxiety is set up I just you know if you just want to chill I said I would say when Genesis talks about us being image bearers I think Preston has kind of developed a good way to break down what it means to be an image bearer in having essence but in having dignity but not being less than and so I want you to explain when you're talking to husband and wives about being an image bearer so that we when we see what God has called men and women to do so we don't see that as God is calling you to be a lesser form of a human yeah definitely definitely so and and and I want to just say this in explaining this headship and Submission which I kick like Jackie said it might be some some some heavy things right but when we think about headship and Submission we it's very important that we don't replace a role with dominance right because if you even when we look at the Trinity right the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit who are all equally God but we see that they play a different role we see that the father has established a leadership role from the beginning right the father he is the one who initiates the creation of the world he said let us create man in our image speaking to the father me speaking to the Son and the Holy Spirit this Holy Spirit was hovering over the face of the deep I still don't really know what that means yet I'm not even good not if you go you know there's a lot of you and we see that Jesus played a significant role in our salvation but we see that Jesus submits perfectly to the Father but even though he submits perfectly to the will of the Father that does not mean that the father is more God in him that doesn't mean that the father is greater than God in essence so in the same way we're trying to explain that even though the man's role may be different than the woman the man is not greater than the woman in essence right so headship of is it a matter of competence or calling is it before we even dig into scripture I think it's very important for us to define what these two things are right competence by definition is the ability to do something successfully or efficiently it's an ability to do something well right so the question is should a man be competent in order to lead his family well I think the answer is yes but I think it depends on how we define competence right are we defining competence off of our own strength are we allowing God's is to define confidence for the man my question is it's got some CEO in heaven who hires men to be leaders of their family because he thinks we fit the description or is he a supernatural God who gives the man supernatural power to help fulfill his role as leader because he called us to this role that was my argument for the bar critics on social media my argument was this there's no amount of intellect there's no amount of earthly wisdom there's no amount of giftings that can supersede the strength that God gives us to help carry out the role that he designed for us right so what is the definition of calling right Webster dictionary what Webster's definition would tell you that it's a strong urge or filling towards a particular way of life or career but we know when God calls somebody is deeper than that it's not merely a feeling but sometimes God will just interrupt you and call you to something right we see this in the life of Paul Wright who was on his way to Damascus to do what to persecute and kill more Christians and what did what did God do Metta motivated Damascus blinded that Joker knocked him off his high horse and was like yo Isis summoning you to them to this ministry right he called him to the ministry right and in the same way my argument is this the Bible shows us that headship for the man is God's calling in history an original design for the man we don't have to look all the way to the New Testament only to see truths of this because we see it from the beginning of creation creation shows us this so if you have your Bibles you can turn with me to Genesis 2 and 7 when you got to say got it okay I'm assuming y'all got it it reads this then the Lord God formed a man from dust and from the ground he breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living creature right so here we see the creation of man right not only the creation of man but an issue creation of mankind right Eve is not created yet man is created here right we see that Eve is is does not exist so why is Adam being the first creation evidence of his headship the reason why is evidence of his headship the initial evidence of his headship is because order in the Bible means something right well we see order in the Bible we should just bypass it because it means something but the Bible speaks about someone being the first or the firstborn or the first creation and often indicates that this person has primary rights over something or people for example the Hebrew custom in Hebrew custom of the first child the firstborn child has the primary rights to the parents of state when they die the Bible gives us even greater implications when in Colossians 1:15 when Paul refers to Jesus as the firstborn over all creation now of course Paul is not saying that Jesus was physically born like Adam was because the firstborn can be translated and so many different things right when the Hebrew people hear the word firstborn they don't think about a physical birth kind of like we do right because the firstborn when it refers to Christ is translated into a ranking or or preeminence right so when Paul says Christ is the firstborn of all creation what he's saying is Christ is preeminent over all creation because he is he has the rights of all creation because he is the leader over all creation so this is what I'm not saying what I'm not saying is that Adam being the firstborn of all creation is him having ranking over all that's not what I'm saying because he doesn't have a ranking over all of creation like Christ does but what I am saying is that Adam being the firstborn over Eve is evidence that God and send it for Adam to be the leader over II the leader of Eve the leader of the woman right if God's aim was for them to lead together or share partnership in leadership he would have created them at the same time but he created them in order for a reason we see the second thing right which brings us to my second point when God created Adam first he established Adam as the primary worker and the moral leader of his family turn so if you if you could just look down I think a couple of scriptures to Genesis 2:15 it says this Genesis 2:15 and you guys have you taken notes I wouldn't encourage you just to write them down the scriptures in Genesis 2:15 said this and the Lord took the man and put him in the garden to work it and to keep it and then the LORD commanded the man saying you may surely eat of every tree in the garden but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat for the day you should for the day you eat of it you shall surely die so the first thing we see is what God creating Adam first and in putting him to work immediately now for the men this should speak value to the men especially my lazy brothers right God creates us and the first thing he does is what put us to work right get a job I don't think this is all what this is saying but it is indicating it don't make me don't make me laugh cuz I'm goofy and I'll just keep laughing him like he didn't teach me he just laughed the whole time but the first thing we see is that God established him first as the worker before his family is even created for Eve is even there right so we see that he is a worker but he tells him to work in the garden and to keep it this word keep it means to guard over right so not only is he telling him to work first but he's telling him to be the guardian of the guarding right to guard over it I don't really know too many men and I haven't really met too many married men who don't feel the relate of the responsibility in the home to provide right even if both men and women work together in the home it's the the primary weight typically falls on the man to provide for his family you might be different but all the men that I've ever talked to it's like mandated a wife can work but if they ever lose a job they feel horrible and it's not just because they're merely prideful that they can't provide for their family but I believe that God created us with this innate instinct to provide and we see this from the beginning with Adam a lot of people don't know when me and Jackie first got married like three years ago three and a half years ago we had poems on YouTube he had the journey of the Covenant on YouTube but we straight worked jobs you up said we would like travel the country and travel the world and then go back and do nine-to-five right Jackie worked for a not-for-profit organization and I worked at good old RadioShack yes I sold batteries for a living and did poetry and Jackie came to me and she was like yo I think I think I think I should you know just leave my job God is blessing me didn't give me more opportunities to travel and with me I was like yeah I see I see God doing that you're right it got to the point where like she just couldn't do both anymore so she quit her job and she did it and God blessed her and allowed her to travel with me even though God was blessing me to travel more I just couldn't I just couldn't quit my job it got to the point where RadioShack was going out of business and I was like yo I'm gonna hold on to this stable source of income right because they might stop booking me to do poetry next week but I'm gonna be on a schedule to sell batteries like I'm gonna provide for my family and I got to know dad to the point it's funny but I'm serious you got to the point where Jackie was like yo press and don't you think that your time is up already go check and I was like why do you say that listen like know what's it everybody goes to Amazon anybody saw my proposal Paul the Covenant you know I had to fly out that morning to be at work sin o'clock that morning right and it gets so bad I wouldn't leave my job and yes so bad my boss who I felt like I was there for a reason him the minutes that I walked through the whole book of Job or like and she was just ratchet but uh she was like Preston why are you still here and I'm like a stable source of income and she was like you just got back from Nigeria doing poetry you could leave but I said all that to say this the reason why I couldn't just I couldn't come to quitting my job it's because I felt that pressure to provide for my family I wanted to make sure we were good Jackie she can do her thing but I wanted to make sure I want to cover and God like gave me confirmation like yo this is this is part of my plan for you you can go do poetry I would provide I would be a provider yada yada yada but I said all this say this God created us to work and be the provider in our home the second thing we see in this description in that same scripture don't don't move anywhere is what I lost my place the second thing we see is by God creating Adam first God gave him the responsibility to hold the integrity of his family by commanding him to eat from the tree first and only right will we see let's go back to the scripture it says and the Lord it says and I lost my place again 16 and the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden to work it in to keep it and the Lord God commanded the man saying you shall surely eat of the tree of the garden but you should sure that you should you should you make surely eat up a tree of the garden but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat of it for the day you eat of it you shall surely die so he gives Adam this command before even even created and people ate him only Eve is created he does not repeat this command to Eve why because he is entrusting Adams uphold integrity the moral integrity for his family when Eve come it's not like God said you know what Eve I told your husband not to eat from the street and you know how men forget so I'm gonna repeat it to you don't eat from this tree because if you eat from it you're gonna die he didn't repeat it to her right because he left him with the more responsibilities of a hold to integrity of his family why because he established him from the beginning as the leader the third thing we see is Adam was given authority to name Eve and all of the creatures in the garden this is very important just like I said earlier how things mean significant things in the Bible right when when when somebody is given the authority to name something it's significant in the Bible right we see in Genesis 2 in swanny you don't have to turn to it but the arm but it says Genesis 2 and 20 he says the man gave all the names of the livestock and all the birds of the heavens and all the beasts of the field but for Adam there was not a helper fit for him right so some people may say even though Adam gave and I've heard people say this even though Adam was given Dominion was was given the authority to name all of the animals both men and women were given dominion over all of the creation over all of creation so why can't they both be the leader I've heard people say that a lot and the reason why and my answer for this is there's a big difference between having Dominion and being in leadership a lot of times people confuse the two but it is not the same right the word Dominion derives from the word dominance or control so if some feminist groups think that leadership means dominance or control I could see how they can confuse Dominion and leadership but it's not the same when God gave Adam the authority to name all the livestock he established all of mankind to have dominion over all of creation both men and women but he allowed Adam to what to lead in naming all of the livestock later on we see Eve comes and join him in this Dominion right but when he establishes Adams leadership over Eve by allowing adamson named Eve right so Adam doesn't have dominion over Eve Adam doesn't have control over Lee over Eve like he does the animals but he is her leader that's what we see clear here look at and it's a clear distinction right and I'm and and I've heard a lot of people say well well the Bible teaches that that a woman doesn't have dignity that the man has all the dignity but no like if you look at if you look at the field that Adam had when he named Eve opposed to how he named animals it's a completely different thing right he doesn't want to rule over her look at look at what Adam said in Genesis 2:21 - - on through 23 it says this it says so the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon man which was Adam and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh and the red arm and the rib that the Lord took had he had taken from the man and made into a woman and brought her to man and man said this at last is a bone of my bone flesh of my flesh she shall be called woman because she was taken out of man but we have to see here is that Adam when Adam first laid his eyes on Eve he didn't see another creature or another human being that he can rule over or dominate like he did the animals but he saw something beautiful he saw something that he can love he saw something that he can cherish right and he's says something beautiful he said this at last is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh what is Adam communicating here what Adam is communicating here not only is this the first recorded human words in the Bible but it's poetry if anybody knows me and my wife we kind of like poetry right so this is just beautiful to me that when he first laid eyes on Eve he didn't respond in a way that he responded with he named the animals right because Eve came from him right so he didn't have this desire to rule over her to control her but to love and to cherish her because she literally came from him is this my going-out no okay felt like it right so when he laid eyes on Eve he saw a human that was distinctly different but at the same time strikingly similar right he immediately saw her as a blessing because people feel a void in him and she served in a role that he couldn't do on his own to help carry out the glory of God but at the same time he saw someone equal like I said before in essence don't let anybody tell you that the Bible teaches that though that the man has more dignity than a woman because we serve in a different role because that is not true when II when Adam saw Eve he saw somebody who was equal in essence just indifferent in role he loved her he loved her this was not for him to to rule to rule or to dominate her but he loved her so much that he responded in poetry this is bone of my bone flesh of my flesh so Adams headship was caught let me rephrase this Adam was called to be the leader before he can even prove that he was a leader this proves that that headship is not a matter of competence but calling imma let Jackie talk to you guys about submission and Eve so receive my wife Jackie Oh Barry good job sweetie so Genesis 2:18 we can all turn there or click there whichever medium you prefer this is when we see God introducing Eve to the picture we heard a whole bunch about Adam let's hear a little bit about the woman vs. 2 verse 2 18 it says then the Lord God said it is not good that the man should be alone I will make him a helper fit for him so clearly Adam has been made as Preston established but God says that it's not a good thing the interesting thing about Genesis is through Genesis 1 through 3 we see God declaring certain things good this was good this was good this was good this is the first time we see God declaring that something isn't good when he sees that the man doesn't have a counterpart so God says he is going to make the executive decision to make him a helper but not just any helper but a helper that is suitable for him complementary for him there are two questions to be asked by looking at this verse one is why did Adam need help to is is being a help or a good thing the first question is he needed help obeying the commands of God one God told to be fruitful to multiply I don't think that's possible by yourself if you figured that out let me know second he God had said that I'm gonna make man and woman in my image and in my likeness to share Dominion to share Dominion he could not fully bear or fully walk in this Dominion by himself he needed a counterpart he needed a helper but to is being a helper a good thing Oh backwards to that I think some women think about being a helper and they think that that means helping this man do anything that he wants to do Eve was not made to help this man pursue vain pursuits Eve was not made to help this man grab ahold of his idols Eve was made to help this man glorify God the best he can that's the word for somebody in here today now back to the original question is Ben I had to add that is being a helper a good thing this is a question worth axing because if God is good if God is wise then I can't help but think that not only is what he creates good but the purpose for which he creates it is as well the way I thought would be the best way to answer this question is to simply look at other situations in which we see this word helper use in Scripture and it can give us a better understanding of how it looks and what perspective we are to have when considering Deuteronomy 22 39 can someone turn to that and read it out loud for me you know which one is yours because I don't I don't trust your backwash I drunk out of both alright ok we just go one flesh it with this water anybody guys Deuteronomy 22 39 if you could read that yep chapter 22 verse 39 no that doesn't exist my bad I'll read it just just enter into your Bible hub and you'll see what this verse is it says blessed are you Israel who is like you a people saved by the Lord he is your shield and helper and your glorious Ward your enemies will cower before you and you will tread on their heights I'll read the second verses Psalms 33 20 I believe this exists our soul waits for the Lord he is our help and our shield the third one is Isaiah 115 9 through 11 o Israel trust in the Lord he is their help and their shield o house of Aaron trust in the Lord he is their health and their shield you who fear the Lord trust in the Lord he is their health and their shield what do you notice this word helper is used to talk about God a lot actually it's used 21 times in Hebrew in the Old Testament and 15 or those 21 are about God even if we think about New Testament we see this term used of God again before Jesus is crucified in John 14 25 through 26 where he says these things I have spoken to you while I'm still with you but the helper the Holy Spirit whom the father will send in my name he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you now considering who this term describes most can we conclude if it's good or not absolutely because if anything we can now see that what God was giving Eve or were calling Eve to do was a glorious role to play he was calling her not to be a doormat or pushover or passive woman but he was calling her to image himself let's get to Genesis 3:1 we have to get to when the devil showed up because that's why we have in this conversation in the first place okay it says Genesis 3:1 it says now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made he said to the woman to the woman to God actually say you shall eat of any tree in the garden how many of you know that all sin comes through a question typically now I have questions for you who did God create first who did God give the commands to first who named all the animals who even named Eve so why would Satan axe Eve this question you would think that he would talk to the person who received these commands first you would think that he would talk to the person who has clear Authority first but he chooses to talk to the woman could it be that Satan knew that the order of the family or he knew the order of the family as God has intended and then he knew that if he could successfully tempt Eve that she would in essence do a role reversal within the family where the wife now leads the family in the husband submits to her decision this was not an issue of Eve's intelligence remember she was perfect she had no flaws her logic was clear so Satan didn't approach her because she was dumb he approached her because he knew her deception would have great implications beyond her verses 2 through 7 and the woman said to the serpent we may eat over the fruit of the trees first of all don't why are you talking to the devil okay Jesus says it is written I don't know why you having a conversation with the devil okay we may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden but God said you shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden neither shall you touch it he never said that but lest you die but the serpent said to the woman you will not surely die for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be open you will be like God knowing good and evil so when the woman saw that the tree was good for food that it was a delight to the eyes that the tree was desired to make one wise she took of its fruit and ate and she also gave some to her husband who was with her and he ate so Eve starts talking to the devil we've already established that's not the person you need to have a banter with that you need that converse but you just preach the word and you let him leave okay he starts to start up doubt in her about the Word of God and thus God himself then he promises her if she sinned she would not all and all be judged for her sin like God said but her sin would actually defy her it wouldn't make her like God now imagine this this beautiful woman in the garden she is naked without shame I don't even know if she had stretch marks I don't even know that existed she is made in the image of God for his glory in his honor she knows God intimately and deeply she is intelligent she is why she was made to be a helper to her husband Adam earlier in the text when they first saw each other he wrote a poem about this lady I mean they were the absolute epitome of one flesh he was called to love her and lead her and to protect her he had been given the commands from God personally but now she is talking to a snake that is casting doubt on all that God had said it verse 6 says that when he took the fruit and ate it she handed some to her husband who was with her I'll let Preston talk about the foolishness of this man because I don't understand how you've been commanded by God to lead me and you gonna let the devil the devil is talking to me and you just gonna let him talk he's talking to me that's the problem I don't understand that I'm so shamed you should be my father I bet just go over this real real quick cuz we got a lot to cover right I want y'all to imagine is God creates Adam and the first thing he tells him that if you eat from this tree you should surely die so he gives the command to him first right he was not created yet like I said right he puts him in the garden first he lets him I he lets them name the animals first he lets him name Eve and then after that he blessed him with the beautiful gift of Eve right so beautiful like Jackie said that she spit poetry to her like off the top of the dome I hit him right now he got like right on poetry's that he just spit it off the socks who does that right but instead of him jumping in and saving her like a real G was supposed to he sat there and watched like I can't I really can't wrap my mind around this I'm not I don't want to just just just come down on Adam like he's the only dude in history that has been passive because we know in 2017 we got a lot of passive cats walking around right but I mean I want you to know that this is the equivalent of letting neighborhood lier sit and deceive your wife while you sit there and watch right you know that he's lying you know that he's deceiving her but you sit there and you watch right this was a just a shameful and a cowardly act of passiveness right even though even though Adam is not the one who conversed with the serpent he is just a much of laying there Ziyi why because God called him to be her spiritual protector and spiritual leader right he commanded him first not to eat from the tree so this is the reason why when God came he addressed Adam first right because he was the leader look at what it says in Genesis 3 what are some observations we see vert in verses 8 and 9 right when God comes in the garden to address their sin who does he address first why because he's the leader right and I could just imagine that right just imagine you just sinned against the holy and a righteous God the God who created the heavens and the universe with words and he he comes in the garden and you don't hear him but you don't see him but you hear him coming towards you just think about how terrifying that is and the thing he says it's man where are you right it's vital for us both man and woman to take the role to take the man's role as leader seriously because God takes it seriously right because the man will have to answer first on behalf of his family right I think this act of passive passivity is the reason why we still in 2017 have passive men today don't you guys agree one of them one one of my one of my pet peeves is I have brothers especially in my local community I called them out all the time bro why are you waiting for a woman to pursue you likewise I hate it I hate it so much I had this one do tell me man I'm just sitting back and seeing what she's gonna do man see she's gonna make them look next me you saying well I'm like nah bro you passive you scared of rejection so you won't how to pursue you right because you're passive what are some other ways we see passive this men huh parenting that's a big that's a big thing was name some other things come on women I know y'all know some decision-making father's spiritual leadership working employment alright that's a good that's a good one right we see here that his act of passive and cowardly act was so bad that God also cursed Adam in Genesis 3 17 through 19 can somebody read that Genesis 3 17 to 19 somebody who can read very big and loud for me Genesis 3 verses 17 to 19 read that for me so see here notice here how God's punishment of Adam involves the relationship from the ground in which he came from right he cursed the ground in which he came from right the ground that he was formed from God cursed the ground why did he curse the ground right when God put Adam in the garden the garden was a good for work but it was fruitful right he had everything that he needed in this garden to work in abundance right he had the work right so I don't want people to confuse I've heard people in the past say well well because of Adam God cursed us was will work no he didn't curse us for work he intended for the man to work from the beginning but what he did do is he may work hard for the man work is hard for the man when you see a man coming home early and greasy and tired and don't want to play with his kids Adam all right that's what he did he made it hard for the man right this curse is this curse wasn't wasn't wasn't to make he didn't give the work right but he gave the frustration that a company to the label of the work this is the reason why it's hard for us and I believe Scripture I don't really see how scripture supports is clearly but I believe this is the reason why we have so many lazy men in the world it's because work is hard right because work is hard so I want you to look at the at these curses and see that it's great implications when we don't walk in the role that God gave us right Adam allowed his wife to take his place as leader flesh means we share passwords Eve I believe Satan the serpent is cursed first then the woman then Eve we see God curse her in Genesis 3:16 it says so the woman he said he said to the woman I will intensify your labor pains you will bear children in anguish your desire will be for your husband yet he will rule over you there are two curses given by God to Eve in this text it's the the first one is that childbearing will be painful I can let you know that that's actual that it does happen I was in labor for 38 hours so yeah and you can't even eat they just get you ice you know it was a terrible experience but my daughter says you would sleep I want to sleep the whole know you would sleep eating like flamin hot cheetos I'm like I'm over here you nice hey noodles and crackers to play a face together no no that's not what happened you was like stay by the best side he'll her hand and she was like pressing go to sleep so I want to sleep like I said the first curse is pain and childbearing the second one which is the one we will dig into the most is this curse because this hearse is related to how the woman and the man will relate it says your desire will be for your husband yet he will rule over you at first glance it could appeal to the how do I say this you know the things that really love that the bid is not the file they might read it like okay you know my husband like I'm away him and he gonna rule me like the freaky Saints that's not this is not what this is about okay that was funny you laugh or others which is actually more predominant others will read it so as this curse is the reason why men think that they are supposed to lead women but one way to understand this text which I think is applicable to most Bible study is to see how this text and how this language is used elsewhere we see this exact almost exact language used in Genesis 4:7 it says but if you do not do what is right sin is crouching at the door its desire is for you but you must rule over it same words different people in Genesis for God is telling sin or telling Kane that sin wants him that not sexually or as a companion will when a friend but sins desire is to control him or subdue him to do to him as sin has done to many of us which is to master us so now with that in mind when we go back to the curse in Genesis 3:16 now we have a new perspective we see now that God's curse to Eve would that when sin is present in a woman she will be compelled to rule him to try to subdue him to control him to make him subservient to her will do not think it strange that if not all or most women innately feel some type of way and different degrees when they think of submission this is where our manipulation comes from this is where our disrespect comes from this is where sometimes our disdain for men comes from it comes from our wanting to rule him instead of be led by him and that's not to say that fatherlessness or abuse have not played a part in how we see men because it clearly has but these factors have not put sin in us they have only exaggerated what is already there this curse though towards Eve has implications for her and men the end of the verse says yet he will rule over you what does that mean some folks who say that this proves that headship are patriarchy was introduced as a consequence of sin I can see how a shallow reading of Scripture will lead you to that but as we've seen headship existed in perfection it is it existed before sin even came into the picture the thing is a lot of times there's danger with terminology that we use now being tossed around is that words are being used to define other words interchangeably what I mean by that is you'll hear people talk about headship and male leadership in the home in the same sentence as misogyny or patriarchy as if they are the same thing the problem is that true biblical godly male leadership looks nothing like misogyny or patriarchy this is the thing the statement yet he will rule over you is not the introduction of headship what it is is the introduction of domineering headship just as Cain was to control sins desire to control him because of this curse men would find themselves oppressing women instead of lovingly leading women why do you think rape and abuse and molestation and grievous acts against women are historically you versal experience because this curse was not limited to the two people in the garden but it would have far-reaching effects on every woman and man that would come after them sin is the reason we have to have this conversation because sin has not only tainted our view of God but it's also construed the way we see ourselves by the end of Genesis I think it's possible to leave very discouraged I mean especially after you read Joseph it's terrible it's as if you saw God makes these awesome creatures for his glory and give them gender specific roles and then they completely jack up everything but as we move to Ephesians which is where we'll park out for the rest of our lesson is we see that God has not relented on his original call to Adam and Eve he still wants men to lead in love he still wants women to submit as to the Lord the main difference we will see in Ephesians though is that God will give us greater clarity as to what these roles point to you you want to say something no okay Ephesians 5 we'll start at verse 22 to 24 wives submit to your own husband's own husband's own husbands your husband all right I don't know about your husband all guys submit to that man I submit to this one okay do you have a husband yeah we believe it God I'm kidding singing this is great tuned for the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church his body and is himself its Savior now as the church submits to Christ so also wives should submit in everything that we're submitting everything to their husbands back in Genesis we saw God create an institute marriage between one man and one woman but the reason to a certain extent was concealed or hidden from us until Christ came and died for us his church his bride and because of his effectual pursuit of us we found ourselves and loving submission to him as our head why does marriage exist and why does gender distinctive roles within marriage matter because it and they point to the gospel even though II failed to submit to her husband and ultimately God he still calls women to this glorious responsibility but not to submit for submission sake but to do it as unto the Lord there's a verse in Colossians that says whatever you do work heartily as for the Lord and not for men if submission was a matter of competence this verse would have read with a condition it would have said wives submit to your own husband's as long as they make more money than you or wives submit to your own husband's as long as they deserve it but unless you have a different Bible than I do it says why I've submitted your own husband's as to the Lord that means that we submit because the lord commanded us to do so and because he commanded us to do so we do it for him and unto him I am convinced that that means that this passive description means that if a wife's refused to submit to her husband did I believe that she has first refused to submit to God I remember there was a season my life submission is a difficult thing for me I think for a few reasons one because of the curse that we talked about - because of fatherlessness I didn't I never knew a loving man so from God to say submit to men sounded crazy like what do you mean why would I ever do that because if men are anything like my dad or men or anything like the people I see on these rap TV things that only care about my body and only care about what I can do to please them sexually if men or anything like that why should I ever submit myself and subject myself to that type of torture until I recognize that submission was first a call and worship unto God but when I got what Preston that was a bit difficult but the thing about Preston was I thought you say something think about Preston was he did not make submission easy but he made it possible what I mean by that is I started to see him model godliness in a way that I didn't think was possible in a man I saw that he was consistent I saw that he was wise I saw that he was loving I saw that he actually cared I saw that he was sensitive not in the sense where if we watch you know a show he'll cry every five seconds out out to you if you do that's how the Lord made you that's not how he is but he had concern for me my feelings matter to him and in that I felt more freedom to submit to him I remember when I got this I remember when I recognized that God cared about my submission that this was not a petty thing that this was not something I could say oh I'll pick that part of the Bible to do and I'll pick everything else to do when I recognize that if I wanted to be a woman that God smiled at yes my righteousness is in Christ but that still means I must obey when I recognize that this was a part of my obedience to Christ it changed my whole life that's when I stopped trying to fit a mold of when I thought submissive meant and I instead tried to beg God to make me a submissive wife for his glory because a lot of the ways in which we think submission is is really submission but we can talk about that in the Q&A now someone might see verse 24 is command for wives to submit to their husband and everything as slavery it sounds like it we understand why the church should submit to Christ and everything because he's God he's perfect he's wise he's to be fully trusted but a man at first glance that command sounds foolish but as I said in the beginning we should not be women who are cynical about what God has said in his words saying that God is wiser than we will ever be so whatever he has said even if it sounds crazy it is always good for us to understand what this submit and everything is let's talk about what submission isn't John Piper has a great list of six things that submission is not that I will read from number one submission is not agreeing on everything if I want to actually help my husband that means sometimes we don't have to disagree there are gonna be some things that he's not seeing clearly why because he's not God but I am respectful in the way that I present my disagreement number two submission does not mean leaving your brain as the altar God is not calling you to be stupid God is not calling you to not use your intellect most of the time God will make you in such a way that it has beneficial to your husband so he needs you to be analytical he needs you to be logical he needs you to be type-a or he needs you to be the adventurous one however else it is God made your brand you are not to disregard it number three submission does not mean you do not try to influence your husband I think the crazy thing about being a wife that I recognize is that I influence Preston more than anybody alive is that accurate I think so which is a scary responsibility because that means my opinion matters to him and so if my heart is not submission submitted to God my influence will be manipulative but if my heart is submitted to God that means my influence will help him honor God the best way that he possibly can number five no number four submission is not putting the will of the husband before the will of Christ you do not submit to a husband who is leading you into sin what I mean by that is I don't say you don't submit to him holistically what I mean is you don't submit to him in ways in which are sinful you don't submit to him in ways which dishonor God is if Preston had an idea like I don't know what's something yeah we're just gonna lie on our taxes all right babe I can't submit to you that God cares about our taxes he cares about us paying a Caesar or drop or whoever we supposed to be paying now you do not submit to your husband and sin you submit to your husband and godliness number five submission does not mean getting all of your spiritual strength through your husband your husband is your head but he is not your God you have your own relationship with Jesus he saved you he is sanctifying you he gave you the Holy Spirit He is calling you and when you die this relationship is over but guess who gonna be there you and God yo I got real churchy I love this I love this come on here you still have to have a relationship with the Lord you ain't gonna benefit nobody if you don't know Jesus for yourself number six submission does not mean living or acting in fear you don't submit to your husband out of fear of what he would do that is legalism that is scary that is that that's not faith we submit out of a heart that says you know what God I'm gonna trust that if this man has the Holy Spirit that however he leads us I'm trust that you're leading him and if he so happens to lead us in the wrong direction I'm trusting that you were corrected we trust God in our submission I can't just fully trust Preston Preston ain't the Lord I have to trust the Lord I think the best way to understand this in everything is understanding how a godly man is to lead you when it talks about submit to your husband is everything if a husband loves Jesus he will imperfectly but he will lead you like Jesus with the kind gracious gentle discerning compassionate and loving leadership as you go throughout life you are to follow his lead in everything that honors God you are not to submit to him in everything wicked but you are to submit to him in everything godly when a man leads a woman well she will have joy because she knows her man is leading her to Jesus I think we're running out of time and I'm gonna try to do this as fast as possible because I want to open the floor for questions for Q&A questions but you guys can turn to your Bibles to Ephesians 5:21 through 28 where is it okay it says this still in the vein of Ephesians it says husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her that he might sanctify her having cleansed her by the washing of the water of the word so that he might present to the church to himself in splendor without spot or wrinkle or any such thing that he might that she might be wholly without blemish in the same way husband's should love their wives as their own bodies he who loves his wife loves himself to be honest with you when I first got married I failed at this horribly I don't think my wife Marty would tell you differently but when I got married to be honest I don't think that I was a very good husband at all and the reason why is because I had the Hat genisys down pack I had down pack that I was called to be the leader but I didn't know what it means what it meant to die for my bride I didn't know right so I often came to Jacqui with with with correction I often called on her flaws I'm often called on her sin because I wanted to I wanted to sanctify her but for myself I didn't want to sanctify her for Jesus right and God revealed to me early in my marriage that I became more of a Pharisee to my wife than Jesus and it broke me but it wasn't until I began to love for sacrificially like Christ is when I believe our marriage took a dramatic turn for the better Oh Paul is communicating here is that the man is not to be a domineering or Stern leader over his wife but he is to lead her with christ-like sacrificial love and servanthood for what to help prepare her for glory right the role of a husband is this and I want the man to hear me and clearly the role of the husband is this is to love your wives it's to love your wives unconditionally so they can meet the condition of Christ by being holy and spotless before him right Christ did not want to unholy in a dirty wife so he died to clean and sanctify her just look at the text right let's look at it again it says husbands do what love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her so right here that gave himself up for her is an unconditional love we see that from jump right this is an unconditional love that he will give himself for his ride and what it's a sanctify her and to clean her right so then it says that he might sanctify her by cleansing her bike lensing her with the washing of the word right so this is him preparing her to meet the condition right so he loves her unconditionally so that she might meet a condition of Christ and this as husband's this is what we're supposed to do right we're supposed to love our wives unconditionally so they can meet the condition of Christ we don't love our wives and we don't serve our wives and we don't lead our wives for our own gratification for our own benefit this is how most marriages take a turn for the worse because we might claim that we're serving our wives so they can be clean and holy before Jesus but really we want them to cater to our needs and to cater to our wants right paul Washer says it like this if God gave us a spouse that met our every condition we would never learn how to love unconditionally right future husbands we have a perfect example of Christ's loving his bride unconditionally before she even met his condition right before the church even met Christ's condition he loved her unconditionally so the church might meet his condition in the end this is our roles as husbands this is our only role as a husband is to love our wives sacrificially with christ-like love and servanthood so that she may be holy and spotless and without blemish before Christ we serve a God who came from heaven right and gave himself up for his bride when she was dirty and filthy and sinful it ugly and just yeah just all of that right he gave himself up for her so that she may be spotless before him right so that is my charge for the men to do the same thing to love your wives sacrificially without them meeting your condition first we're gonna I think we can transition into Q&A present pretty much just gave the gospel I think we we're pretty clear on how this this is not a component of the gospel but it has got blue gospel implications because for Ephesians 5 to say that marriage is to point to the gospel and for to say that you know husbands love your wives and wives submit to your husbands and that this mystery is to point to the gospel then this is one thing you don't want to get wrong this is one thing you don't want to confuse because I you have to see that our marriage is a kind of apologetic it is showing the world Jesus it is preaching to the world what it looks like for Christ to love a bride and for the bride to love Christ even in Titus 2 at the end of Paul telling the older women to teach what is good and it's actually in relation to sound doctrine he ends it by saying so that the Word of God may not be reviled reviled made abhorred abominable so have you ever considered that your refusal to not be the woman that God has called you to be is causing people to question the validity of Scripture this is how serious this is and this is why the attack a woman is so prevalent this is why gender distinction is becoming so blurred because it has great implications for how the world sees Jesus but the hope is is that we don't have to do this by ourselves I am so grateful that when Jesus died and took our sin and took our failures and took my unwillingness to submit it his failure to lead at times when he took it upon himself and he died and said in his finish I am so grateful that he rose from the grave and defeated the death that I deserve but I'm also even more grateful that he sent a helper to help us all because I cannot ever be the woman that God has called me to be without God because he made me a woman he made him a man so how else can we be that without the woman who the person who made us that which is Jesus which is the father which is the Holy Spirit and so I just want to encourage all and in with that don't try to do this by yourself don't try to do this isolated from God isolated from Scripture and definitely like I'm not isolated from community because you need the Saints to help you be who God has called you to be a man

Channel: Legacy Disciple

Views: 433,875

Rating: 4.9195709 out of 5

Keywords: Legacy, Conference, Urban, Discipleship, Preston Perry, Jackie Hill Perry, Headship, Submission, Complementarianism, Workshop, Teaching, Men, Women, Marriage, Bible, Gospel, God, Glory, Jesus, Church, Ephesians 5, Genesis, PIA, Poet

Id: N_ZIdCJoulY

Length: 74min 3sec (4443 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 23 2018