Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers Case Analysis

hello this is dr grande today's question is can i analyze the case of liz anne froone and chris cremers just a reminder i'm not diagnosing anybody in this video only speculating about what could be happening in a situation like this if you enjoyed this video please like it subscribe to my channel and consider supporting me on patreon i'll put the link to patreon in the description for this video this seems like a fairly straightforward case but when you get into it it's actually fairly complex so really interesting and there's a lot of information available beyond what i'm going to put in this video as always the links to all the sources i used are in the description for this video i'll start with the timeline and i'll move to my analysis 22 year old liz anne froone and 21 year old chris cremers were students from the netherlands on march 14 2014 they traveled from the netherlands to panama they made the journey because they wanted to volunteer and have a bit of a vacation they initially spent some time on the coast visiting various restaurants and learning spanish they met two dutch men who were also visiting the area the pair took a lot of pictures so their activities are actually reasonably well documented on march 29 they made their way to the town of boquete on the west side of panama the volunteering they hoped to do was at a program at a children's school in that town they ended up arriving prior to when the program actually started due to a miscommunication they were told that they could not teach the children as planned they would have to wait a week both of the women kept a diary chris noted in her diary that the people at the program were rude and not at all friendly i guess as opposed to rude and super friendly the pair decided to stay in the area and do sightseeing they may have attempted to volunteer at other schools as well so they were still looking to complete the altruistic mission that they had set out on the women hired a tour guide that was supposed to show them around the area on april 2 2014 however they left on april 1 and decided to explore the area on their own including an area near an active volcano called the beru volcano this area isn't considered to be particularly dangerous for tourists to explore but areas beyond the trail can be exceedingly dangerous they are steep and rugged at about 11am the women set out on the la pianista trail after being dropped off at the start of the trail by a taxi the women were planning on going to the summit and then returning the same way this hike should have taken them about five or six hours round trip they had one backpack between them they had their phones one samsung galaxy and one iphone a canon powershot sx 270 digital camera about 80 in cash their passports and a water bottle it was reported they took a local dog named blue with them on the trip as well they apparently reached the summit at 1 pm but it appears as though they decided to continue so they were going beyond the safety of the trail there was a waterfall deeper in the jungle we know they had looked up the trail on a computer a few days before perhaps they thought they could make it to the waterfall while it was still daylight with enough time to return in the daylight blue would return sometime later but without the women it's worth noting that a few people do not believe the dog ever went with them there is no dog in any of the photographs they took people in the community noticed that the women failed to return but they decided to wait another day before contacting the authorities the next day the tour guide noticed that the women had missed the appointment family members for both women also grew worried when they did not receive a call from the women checking in on april 3 which was expected that same day again april 3 the authorities started searching for the missing women the search took place using aircraft and on foot the parents of both women also helped in the search even at this early point we see all types of theories were already circulating including the idea that some type of criminal element was responsible for their disappearance the search was intense for 10 days and continued at a lower intensity for 10 weeks the backpack was eventually located by a woman from a local tribe she found it near the bank of a river it was about eight hours from the last known location of the women in the backpack was the camera both cell phones the cash two pairs of sunglasses two bras the water bottle and the passport belonging to lausanne electronic devices were of particular interest to the investigators the phones had remained active for several days after the women disappeared the phones were used repeatedly to attempt to contact the authorities only hours into their journey including calling 9-1-1 which is an emergency number in panama as well as many other countries the first call was attempted at 4 39 pm on april 1 on chris's phone we see that 12 minutes later another call was made using lazann's phone they shut the phones off until 14 hours later at which time they made several more attempts they only managed to connect for one time for about two seconds at 6 58 am on april 2. lizzie ann's phone died on april 4. after this chris's phone locked because too many incorrect pin number entries were made or someone failed to enter the pin this occurred 77 times between april 7 and april 10. chris's phone required two pin codes the last time her phone would be turned on was april 11. after this neither phone had any activity in addition to the phones the camera contained data there were 133 consecutive photos and one missing photo the missing photo is number 509 i'll talk more about this in the analysis the first photos were standard tourist type photos selfies they were laughing and smiling there were a number of chris walking ahead of whoever was operating the camera some people say that she looked distressed in a photo i looked at it i really didn't see anything remarkable in her facial expression other people said they see all kinds of other things in the photos i just don't really see anything out of the ordinary in the daytime photos that were taken the camera activity resumed on april 8 90 photos were taken between 1 am and 4 am these photos were much more unusual we see photos of the surroundings the foliage there was one with a stick and some plastic attached to it one of a bridge many scenic shots but these were unusual photos some of them appear to be pointed at the sky one photo appears to show chris's hair it's not really clear why they took the photos maybe to capture landmarks so they could navigate maybe those pieces of plastic on the stick or an attempt to create a landmark that they could easily identify and they were photographing it so they would remember what it looked like it's also possible they were using the flash so the photograph was not the object but they wanted to create a flash so they could see or perhaps they thought maybe somebody was looking for them at night and would see that flash there can be no way to be certain that they actually took the photographs so another possibility is that the women were not involved in taking those photos somebody else was with them or simply took the camera and took those photos somewhere else now moving back to the search after looking at the cell phone records and the photos investigators focused on an area near the serpent river this was not close to the women's original destination in this new search area chris's clothing was recovered near the edge of a river about half a mile from where the backpack was located initial reports said that the items were neatly folded but apparently this was not true interestingly the clothing was on the opposite side of the river from where the photos were captured a shoe was found behind the tree along the river two months later it contained a foot and ankle fractures to the foot were evident dna testing confirmed it belonged to lausanne 33 bone fragments and other small samples of skin would eventually be located some of them belonging to lausanne and others belonging to chris including one half of chris's pelvic bone no cause of death could be determined from the remains that were recovered only about five to ten percent of their bodies were recovered investigators would come up with what they referred to as a conclusion about a year later it was really more of a theory than any type of determination here is generally what the theory says chris sustained an injury along the trail the women became lost either before or after this injury they tried calling for help but of course they were unsuccessful they couldn't get through to emergency services using their phones in an attempt to get help liz and left chris behind but lizeanne did not know where she was going at some point she felt a significant distance breaking her foot as well as sustaining other injuries lazanne died in the river or near the river the rain and the river scattered the remains now moving to my analysis there are two main theories in this case the official theory from the investigators which again said the deaths were accidental and the theory that criminal elements were involved so this was really a double murder i will take a look at the evidence that supports each theory let's take a look at the evidence that supports the accent theory first the women were unprepared for harsh conditions they had little or no food inadequate communication devices no waterproof clothing no compass they had never hiked on that trail before they were in good physical condition and young but they were not used to the conditions in that area like the heat and the altitude at the top of the summit it was over six thousand feet if they had encountered a criminal element why would any of their personal property have ever been recovered especially electronics one would think that a serial killer would realize the importance of disposing of those items if they attempted to call emergency services because they were being followed or because they encountered an attacker how are they able to attempt to call again later on one would think that the killer would move in right away and not stalk them for days especially if the killers saw them on their phones also the pictures taken soon after attempting to call for help did not indicate distress i know some people disagree on this but again i didn't really see any evidence that they were upset even in the photos taken right after they made the first attempts to contact authorities the women took a lot of pictures if someone else was on the trail with them like an assailant why didn't they take that person's picture of course maybe they did that picture 509 that again i will take a look at momentarily the recovered clothing did not have blood on it neither did the backpack now let's take a look at the evidence in support of the idea that criminal activity was involved their attempt to call emergency services could be consistent with spotting somebody suspicious and walking farther from the trail like they were driven by fear to go deeper into the jungle based on what we see in later photos we know they weren't injured to the point where they could not move yet they continued moving away from safety if chris was actually injured near the time of the first emergency call attempts why didn't lausanne simply walk back down the trail the search effort to find the women was massive and these trails were regularly traveled by local residents including residents that would walk cattle along them so again this wasn't considered a particularly dangerous trail there were other people on it they should have been found if they were anywhere near it it really does seem difficult to believe that they would not have been located it is reasonable to assume that they were alive for quite some time when the search was ongoing there was an overlap there so the searchers moved out there and plenty of time to find them alive they just couldn't seem to be at the same location as the women this seems very odd under the circumstances it's almost like they were taken somewhere and then returned to the area now moving to the missing photo number 509 this is interesting because this photo would have been the divider between the normal scenic shots in the daytime and the unusual shots taken at night based on the functioning of that particular canon camera if the photo was deleted from the camera there would still be evidence of it on there yet none of the file was found by the experts that examined the camera also the soonest it could have been deleted would have been after the first nighttime photo was taken because if it was deleted before that it simply would have been replaced by that next photo the missing photo could be explained through some type of rare glitch i suppose or it could have been deleted using a computer but of course the women did not have a computer with them so this again suggests that they went somewhere else it just seems strange that an attacker would delete that one photo no matter what that photo contained and leave the other photos on the camera but either way this is suspicious the next item why they leave some type of message the camera was capable of video recording as well as taking photos in many other cases of people who are lost in the jungle or in any type of wilderness or remote area we often see they leave messages for family members whether they write them down or record them on phones or camcorders or cameras they do something to communicate with other people knowing that they might likely die they want to say something they want their message to continue on we don't see this from these women the next item is the pin code situation like all those attempts to unlock the phone this doesn't make sense under an accident scenario if chris was injured lausanne simply could have asked for the two coats unless chris was so injured she couldn't talk or chris was killed maybe lausanne did know the coats but she forgot them after separating from chris this would explain the many attempts like she believed she knew the right coats she kept trying she was getting frustrated hoping that the next entry would be the correct one another possibility is that the attacker was trying to get into the phone no codes were needed to call 9-1-1 so why keep trying to get in this pin code situation could be used to support either theory but i think it weighs more heavily toward the criminal theory the backpack was not there the day before so where it was found the person did not see it the day before but it had not been damaged by water so if the river moved it to that location how could it be undamaged by water the last item the condition of the remains doesn't make much sense if this was an accent it just so happens that both of them die independently under circumstances where their bodies suffer extreme fragmentation the jungle is dangerous but this seems to be a little bit too much chris's bones appeared to be bleached or otherwise treated with chemicals so unless like a panther or something was walking around the bottle of bleach and just happened to trip on her this doesn't make a lot of sense this seemed like humans needed to be involved now in terms of that pelvis bone after two months some of the tissue would have still been on that bone there was no evidence that scavengers had torn at the bone so just magically all that tissue disappears from the bone in just two months again it just doesn't make a lot of sense with all this in mind what do i think happened in this case well neither theory really makes any sense and a combination of both theories is even more improbable like the women became lost or injured and then ran into some type of serial killer i think the most likely explanation albeit unsatisfactory is that these women were inexperienced unprepared and got lost they tried calling for help but that didn't work they panicked they hiked the wrong way instead of staying put and waiting for a rescue somehow they both died as a result of falling this theory does not explain a lot of things like the condition of the remains the missing photo and the nighttime photos but it still seems more likely than a very irregular killer who just happens to leave behind a lot of evidence not much of which actually points directly to death by homicide even still i would not be surprised that these women were murdered i still think that's a good theory i think this is a case where the investigation was just too lazy and improperly executed to actually generate enough evidence to converge on one cohesive theory those are my thoughts in the case of lisanne froone and chris cremers please put any opinions and thoughts in the comments section they always generate an interesting dialogue as always i hope you found my analysis of this topic to be interesting thanks for watching

Channel: Dr. Todd Grande

Views: 145,466

Rating: 4.9102392 out of 5

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Id: O0KlMoQ-i6E

Length: 17min 40sec (1060 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 20 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/Aixelsydguy]

Well he seems to settle more on the side of accident/lost, but it was kind of annoying that he was seemingly using information that we now know is likely false or inaccurate.

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1. The phone would have locked you out had you attempted that many incorrect PIN codes.

2. The bones being bleached simply means they were whiter than would be expected if they were fresh remains. The speculation on how was either through the sun or phosphorous of some kind. A number of different chemicals can be considered bleaches, but he makes it sound as if they had laundry bleach, like chlorine bleach, on their bones.

3. The default file numbering mode for that camera would not automatically replace 509 even if it was deleted immediately.

4. I don't believe that rate of decomposition is especially astonishing. Here is a video of a cow decomposing down to bones over the course of about a week. Given, it may have had help from various scavengers, but a typical cow still outweighs a human by several hundred pounds.

[u/vornez]

Good analysis, some higher truths.

[u/GodsWarrior89]

Yay he did it!!

[u/Swimming_Ad_1250]

He makes those annoying lip smacking noises when he talks. I cannot watch.