Andrew Bagby / Zachary Turner Homicides | Romantic Rejection Killer

hello this is dr grande today's question is can i analyze the murders of andrew bagby and zachary turner another question here would be can i offer my thoughts on the documentary that covered these murders titled dear zachary a letter to a son about his father just a reminder i'm not diagnosing anybody in this video only speculating about what could be happening in a situation like this if you enjoy this video please like it subscribe to my channel and consider supporting me on patreon i'll put the link to patreon in the description for this video this case focuses on a few different people i will start with some background then i'll move to the timeline of the murders and then offer my analysis andrew bagby was born in california on september 25 1973 his parents are named david and kathleen bagby andrew would eventually become a physician and practice in latrobe pennsylvania he was involved in a romantic relationship with a woman named shirley jane turner this relationship started in 1999. shirley turner was born in saint anthony canada on january 28 1961 so she was 12 years older than andrew she was also a physician shirley had a number of relationships before meeting andrew she had been married twice before and had three children there were allegations that she was abusive to her children but no investigation was ever conducted there was also an allegation of stalking a man that she had started dating in 1996 who was 13 years younger than her broke up with her she didn't take it too well after calling him repeatedly she attacked him with a high-heeled shoe he moved to pennsylvania she traveled there and visited him unannounced several times he called the police who told her to stay away in april of 1999 the man found shirley outside his apartment she was wearing a black dress holding roses and was in the possession of two suicide notes she had attempted to bring an end to her life she was transported to a local hospital and would survive andrew and shirley started dating around the same time as this incident andrew was still a resident at this point the relationship would become quite turbulent at first it went well then things started to fall apart in may of 2000 andrew moved to new york for a residency in august of 2000 shirley moved to iowa for work the couple continued their relationship long distance in july of 2001 shirley moved to a different city in iowa for another job in the fall of 2001 andrew moved to latrobe pennsylvania it was at this point that andrew was backing away from the relationship with shirley he had enough and was ready to move on he had found a new girlfriend shirley was not ready in october of 2001 shirley purchased a phoenix arms hp 22 semi-automatic pistol this weapon is chambered in 22 long rifle she took lessons to learn how to fire the weapon the ammunition she used during those lessons was manufactured by a company called cci shirley had been repeatedly calling andrew and leaving messages on october 13 2001 she told him that she was three months pregnant they would meet at a wedding in late october 2001 to discuss the situation this was right after her last firearm lesson on november 3 2001 shirley claimed that she had been lying about the pregnancy in order to stay in the relationship with andrew andrew drove her to the airport and put her on a plane back to iowa now we see reports that this is when he ended the relationship but as i mentioned he had a girlfriend so it's not really clear what he was thinking about at that time but it did seem like the relationship with shirley was over either way now moving to the timeline of the murder at 1 pm on november 4 shirley departed iowa and started driving toward latrobe pennsylvania the trip was almost a thousand miles she confronted andrew at his house on november 5 at 5 30 a.m his house was right across the street from where he practiced she said she wanted to meet him at the park later andrew went to work and told his supervisor about the incident he agreed to meet his supervisor after meeting with shirley he never arrived for that meeting with a supervisor the next day at keystone state park andrew's body was found he had been shot five times the shell casings found at the scene as well as a live round indicated that the ammunition manufacturer was cci we see that andrew was shot once in the face the chest and the back of the head and two times in the buttocks shirley was of course a suspect the police contacted her she initially said that she was not in latrobe pennsylvania on november 5 but then she realized the police could figure out that she really was her cell phone records indicated that she made the trip she made calls from locations along the route so she made calls on the way there and calls on the way back she had checked her email from andrew's computer in his house and used his phone to call out sick to her employer at this point she changed her story and said that she did meet him in the park she gave him her 22 caliber pistol and he put it in his trunk so she admitted that she was there she admitted she had the firearm she just kind of changed the story for what happened at the end she gave him the gun it went in his trunk and she never shot him the police would find other evidence as well shirley had printed out maps that had directions to latrobe pennsylvania a box of condoms was found in shirley's apartment which had been purchased by andrew on the night they broke up a witness reported seeing a toyota rav4 which is what shirley drove parked next to andrew's toyota corolla at the park this was just 10 minutes after andrew made a call to a supervisor the last call he would ever make the police attempted to arrest shirley but she left iowa on november 12 2001 and flew to canada she ended up with her oldest son in saint john's she was arrested by the canadian authorities on december 12th the extradition process took some time a judge released shirley on bail her bail was set at just seventy five thousand dollars her psychiatrist posted most of it 65 000. the police had discovered that shirley was pregnant andrew was the father this added the issue of child custody into the mix this really prolonged the process of extradition quite a bit andrew's parents david and kathleen moved to saint john's they wanted to fight for custody of their grandchild shirley and andrew's child was born on july 18 2002. he was named zachary turner for the next several months there was a lot of drama involving custody shirley didn't like david and kathleen at other times she did appear to like them this went on until shirley was put in jail in november of 2002 david kathleen took care of zachary during that time so they took care of him all the time when shirley was in jail just a few months later in january of 2003 the same judge released shirley again this time essentially saying that shirley's murder victim was a specific person not a random person therefore it was safe to let her go so as long as somebody's not a danger to random people they're okay i guess as far as that judge is concerned but if they have a specific target that's when they're dangerous this is the logic being applied by someone who was ostensibly intelligent enough to get a law degree for the next several months we see the drama about the custody returns shirley is putting a tremendous amount of stress on david and kathleen as they desperately try to navigate her drama so they can stay in zachary's life and protect him this brings us to july 4 2003 shirley meets a man at a bar in st john's the two dated and had sex when the man learned about shirley's backstory he broke up with her mostly because of the murder part shirley would go on to make about 200 threatening phone calls to the man over the course of the next month confirming that he probably made the right decision he called the police but he wouldn't give his name and refused to file complaint therefore no meaningful action was taken this takes us to august 18 2003 shirley fills a prescription for a drug called lorazepam this is a benzodiazepine also known as ativan she drove near the man's residence and parked the car this man she had met at the bar she left a used tampon and photographs of herself and zachary in the front seat of her vehicle she gave the lorazepam to zachary and consumed quite a bit herself she used a sweater to tie zachary to her chest before jumping off a fishing wharf into the atlantic ocean a couple on vacation would find shirley's body zachary's body was located not far away this takes me to my analysis there was a lot of fallout due to shirley's homicidal behavior her psychiatrist was found guilty of professional misconduct the judges involved in the case were criticized although no action was taken against them in 2010 zachary's bill was signed into law it made it tougher for people accused of violent felonies to get bail david and kathleen were responsible for that bill so they led the charge to get the law changed as far as mental health and personality factors for shirley turner when shirley was training to become a physician her supervisors noted a number of problems with her she missed time from her residency she falsified reports patients asked not to see her anymore she was confrontational manipulative superficial emotional and a pathological liar they said that she could be charming but when confronted with criticism she would become angry play the victim and she would try to shift the blame by talking about the faults of her supervisors her supervisors just kept pushing her along believing that someone else would prevent her from continuing the program sometime in the future they thought the system would stop her forgetting that they were part of the system shirley manifested stalking behavior and had a particular preferred victim type in the three instances where we see stalking in her history all the victims were young men the first man where she went to his apartment in that black dress andrew bagby of course and the man in the bar in st john's in general she would attract them through sex charisma and intensity the relationship would ramp up quickly she would then start to appear needy dependent and emotional she would drive them away this would lead to dramatic tactics intended to preserve the relationship ultimately of course these tactics would fail and she would take things to an extreme a suicide attempt a completed homicide and we see at the end she would complete both her murder of zachary had nothing to do with her legal problems andrew bagby or david and kathleen it was all about the man in the bar she wasn't worried about spending her life in prison she wasn't worried about trying to flee she was worried about the next guy it really didn't matter who it was it was just whoever she was interested in in that moment i'm not aware of any reports about a mental health diagnosis for shirley regardless of what disorders she may or may not have had her behavior does appear to align with certain cluster b personality features there are four personality types captured in cluster b anti-social narcissistic borderline and histrionic just a few examples of potential alignments between the characteristics of those personality types and her behavior from anti-social we see deception aggression criminal behavior and no remorse from narcissistic we see envy lack of empathy sense of entitlement and being manipulative from borderline we see frantic efforts to avoid abandonment an unstable relationship pattern anger impulsivity and self-harm and from histrionic we see believing relationships are closer than they really are shallow emotions sexually seductive behavior impressionistic speech and theatrical and dramatic behavior all these behaviors came together to form this specific pattern intense sexual relationships followed by rejection followed by destruction this is such a challenging combination of traits it's amazing that she made it through her education and could stay employed anywhere the symptoms appear to be mostly confined to romantic relationships at least the more intense and destructive symptoms the last item i will review is the documentary i talked about before titled dear zachary a letter to a son about his father i thought this was a touching tribute to both andrew and zachary the producer of the documentary grew up with andrew and took a lot of video of andrew when they were young this documentary also highlighted the incredible courage and decency of david and kathleen bagby their struggle was horrible it's easy to imagine their anger at shirley turner and the system that enabled her lethal actions they had to negotiate with her tried to appease her but at the same time set boundaries to keep themselves safe so they could continue to fight for the rights of zachary and try to protect zachary they had to sit across from shirley knowing that she murdered their son even though david thought about killing shirley he managed to control his behavior under the worst of circumstances the documentary was really about a group of decent caring and warm people who ran into a relationally motivated murderer now moving to the lessons learned first lesson judges need to rely on mental health experts the judge claimed that there was no indication of mental health problems with surely well there's never an indication of mental health problems if the judge doesn't know what they're looking at this judge was not qualified to make that decision shirley easily manipulated this judge second lesson sometimes when people are on a particular career path they offer a lot of deference and respect to other similar professionals they know what they went through themselves to get their credentials and they figured that anyone else who could do the same thing must be stable good productive and decent the difficulty is that some offenders are motivated to commit crimes only in the context of relationships they can often fly under the radar at work settings they probably still will behave in a way that attracts attention but not enough so where they're going to be fired romance intimacy and sex represent an area of confusion pain and anger for the offender they believe their very existence may be terminated if a relationship ends which means they can justify ending the victim's existence the emotions are extreme victims believe they can reason with the individual because of the career background but extreme emotions are typically immune from logic and reason those are my thoughts on the murders of andrew bagby and zachary turner please put any opinions and thoughts in the comments section they always generate an interesting dialogue as always i hope you found my analysis of this topic to be interesting thanks for watching

Channel: Dr. Todd Grande

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Length: 16min 14sec (974 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 21 2021