all right oh hey wave the camera all right we're recording yeah we're recording so I saw you guys on a door just over there and you guys are knocking on doors proselytizing doing the circuit and you guys are just introduced been doing missionary work for about a year and a half it's a two-year voluntary little voluntarily mission I'm from Kentucky Kentucky and we are in New York yep so yeah yeah we don't get to choose where we go the leaders of our church get to pray to God revelation where we do this for two years every day of the week no money involved this isn't for for rank or position in the church that's incredible yeah I've actually heard this before from a couple people a couple of times that from what I understand correct if I'm wrong this comes out of your own pocket like you're funding your own you don't call it a mission elder Kelly I'm from North Salt Lake Utah yeah so we raised $10,000 to go and where do you where do you guys stay you're not but so you're from Utah you're from Kentucky where do you stay right now the spent use that $10,000 given to our church in the church basically does whatever it wants with the the funding and stuff it take care of the apartments but it's really coming out so you're staying in an apartment yeah so a temporary apartment right Wow this okay already I know more about what you guys do in this first 30 seconds of this conversation because I didn't know you weren't from around here and you you guys don't know each other until this this mission you know and I'm and it is a mission right that's the appropriate word yeah Wow so you didn't know each other till you started this Mitch how do you I'm twenty years old twenty nineteen started and now there's a lot of especially in today's world there's a lot of just negativity around religion in the public you know in the public view there's negativity around and and we don't need to go into the reasons why we all know why but I think there's a lot of shrouded positivity which i think is what you guys are sharing yeah give me give me just a like if you were to knock on my door how would you introduce yourself I would say we're the LDS missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ latter-day saints we're sharing the message of Jesus Christ how He loves us we are his children and because He loves us he reaches out to us again and has established his church through a modern-day prophet and the proof of that comes from the book and as we read The Book of Mormon we can pray about it and receive the Holy Spirit and that testifies of truth so it all goes basis on like like prayer and you know reading it for yourself I want to ask I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go too far into it because I do want to ask some theological questions but I know those of those can be challenging and there's no real you know I'm in sales and we knock on doors hey I see your roof is in disrepair you're probably gonna need a roof in the very near future but we have door knockers who are not there I'm very experienced in roofing but we have door knockers who almost know nothing other than your roof looks deteriorated you might need a new one can we have an estimator come out who knows a lot more is that kind of what you like you know enough to knock on a door and share your brief testimony but like the detail is that accurate um really just interested we totally respect they have the right okay so now use that now you you're you that's an official term elder that seems a little strange to me and probably a lot of people because you're clearly not elder means teacher we get the name elder from for two years and there's girl missionaries they're called sisters yeah yes oh that's what always trainings I didn't yeah that's what that's what my last name is Kelly my first name's Sean okay so get the title for two years I just recently visited the Joseph Smith house out in Manchester and there were a bunch of girls their mission missionaries and they kept you know I'm sister so-and-so I'm sister so-and-so and obviously most people are familiar with like the Catholic Church sister is a nun or something like that but that they're basically doing the same thing you're doing yeah they're being missionaries they go out sometimes like for here in pomira area-specific there's the sites in Palmyra that you've been to the place the farm the sacred grove Hill Cumorah Gomorrah there they have site shifts I guess where there's time out of their day where they go and give tours of of those places so I want to ask a couple more questions that are not theological at all nothing to do with faith you said you raised $10,000 do you guys start working at age 15 to save $10,000 or um a freeze family it's different like most teenagers don't make $10,000 from my family my parents made we're fortunate to have the funds but they they made it deal with I have three older brothers okay served on missions as well they made kind of like a deal with each one of us that we raise half and they'll pay the other half so how did you raise five thousand there's five thousand we did used to live in California okay so we did recycling and stuff just picking up stuff off the side of the road parents would buy water bottles I do there's like a job was a weekend job it's called the some farm I went on and help direct people where to go and so they could pick like apples and stuff and and Sean how about you I don't I just cut you off but I'm just asking yeah sounds kind of rude when I say okay this is very exciting I know you guys want to knock on more doors and stuff but like I just had a job when I came out basically but a lot of missionaries do that they the parents so so kind of kind of like school almost like college people you know like well my parents helped me out I had to get a job and if they said if I got this much or or like a car somebody like it well my parents said if I could raise two thousand they'd put two thousand and get a car how did you raise your five thousand the same thing you just work at odd job so so again a just pure functional question you raise ten thousand dollars you said your church leaders decide where you go do people frequently go across the country I mean you guys are you new york is nor near Utah from Africa Japan California even Utah but usually you go somewhere other than where you live is that correct yeah so most likely if there was someone here in Rochester New York they aren't gonna be on their mission in Rochester they're Debian why do you think that is I'm just I mean I I personally believe that that's probably better because you don't know the terrain you don't know you're a stranger in a strange land to use a biblical reference of Sojourner and it kind of makes it easier to maybe just yeah yeah there's actually missions ass that's like ever since like our church started that they raised they were raised in New York and they proselyte adore taught people the gospel and their navin lands and there's like a couple of people that do that still like say like Puerto Rico and there's just so good with the language and like the terrain like you said they they can surf there it's it's just like we believe in modern revelation leaders just choose where we go okay also there's there's some specific rules where we are we only talk with our families on Mondays and so maybe that's part of the reason where they send this kind of away from the family yeah yeah you're not just hanging out with mom right you're you're working yeah you're doing and work yeah there's probably friends that could like I wanted to or something not killing them I'm set apart of the missionary I got it okay so so just functionally I know I've lived some pretty slim times in my life and I know you don't need that much money most people don't realize you don't need that much money but $10,000 seems pretty slim to live for two years so is there like a church subsidy or is there like group living or or you it's just you two living in one apartment is like you just got you know Jack and Bill and Sarah in the next apartment over it's not like a group of latter-day saints missionaries one nothing like that so I'm just wondering just functionally how does how does that work I mean that's the church's cars right they all we have to pay for necessarily is clothing and food in the church it kind of subsidizes the okay so the church is setting up the apartment the church has funded that so you have a place to live you don't have to worry about like gas electric you have internet you don't have to worry about utilities and things so that's actually a huge part of a lot of people's expenses so you're not really worried about that you just have to pay for food conservatively you could eat pretty well for two years on five grand a year and do you have like a fuel card or something for their car yeah okay so they do take a good good cut but you're not like if you want to do anything other than that you know five thousand isn't gonna get you too far so you basically subsist yourself for a couple okay that makes a lot of sense that's you know I know something about by the way I know the common phrase for the Latter day Saints the LDS is Mormons is that is that a is that an acceptable term is the or do you not use that amongst yourselves the correct term is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints which seems kind of long but it's not derogatory or anything like if I say you guys are a couple of Mormons doing your business you're not gonna be like geez what I get ignorant jerk okay it's like something that church has in fact like we didn't really like come up with the people who've just started calling us Mormons or like okay right cuz of the Book of Mormon right okay so I was just wondering cuz sometimes people just use these phrases and then you actually talk to someone of that community and they're like we're from the Church of Jesus Christ Latter day Saints what's that the Mormons oh yeah okay okay you prefer the the first title rather than Mormon but I mean we're not well I'm but I mean Mormon is like a noun but if I was to say there are two what I call you elders what I call you missionaries what I call you members of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter day Saints or just Mormon there's two Mormons I saw two Mormons on the street I mean whatever you want but yeah I guess I was just wondering you know help it helps to be accurate um one thing I've noticed about I mean and again there's a lot of negativity about religion and people involved and that's neither here nor there but I have noticed something about the reason I wanted to get the right verbiage because I was gonna say I've noticed something about Mormons and like maybe that's maybe I shouldn't be saying that but I'll use that because yeah one thing I've noticed about Mormons I mean just look at you I mean you guys are all crisp I mean you haircuts clean I'm not even clean-shaven I'm doing business today yeah you know clean shaven slim usually in shape is that a cultural thing or is that just like I mean it's not happenstance is that do you consider that a blessing from God or like what's why is it why are all the Mormons look good why do you always look good there's I guess one one way we do have a health code given to us bad profit kind of like Oh like like Jews like Jew it's like okay we believe it's a commandment from God and to help us because in the Bible it describes like you're by as a temple you should not put like harmful substances and in your body so we don't drink coffee for you we don't order we don't drink tea or coffee we don't smoke we don't drink alcohol now I've I've heard that before and again in as much as I've heard things but people hear things all the time is it real strict is that like then what I mean by that is not like are you punished for like sniffing a coffee what I mean is I love the smell you're raised on this though like you're raised from a child you don't drink coffee now I've never I've never in my life I've never drunk alcohol I've never smoked anything I don't drink coffee I do drink soda but I don't drink coffee but most people in my life say I'm a little strange for having this type of lifestyle do you guys obviously you're knocking on doors but you guys often mingle with non-mormons do you do you hang out with non-mormons and what's the reaction you get to that type of dietary discipline pretty much but then we try to explain like we see as like those substances are addictive and when more addicting we can't make our own choices we're kind of control you're controlled by the medic a Michals yeah yeah I'm sorry you can't really choose for yourself I believe that that kind of adds to the beauty I guess you guys work out yeah I mean you guys walk a lot we do I mean you guys are on just I mean you walk more how much do you think it won't put walk a day I know these are strange questions but probably average so five to ten miles depending upon where you go every day push-ups pull-ups we have some weights and you guys work out together is that like a is that is that a religious thing is that part of the discipline or is that just that's just that's treating your body as a temple like missionaries we kind of live like the higher higher law so so higher laws I don't want your talking so like is it okay it's like say like what I have to like read the book to know what you meant by higher law no no no it's it's uh it's just a phrase like in the Bible like Jesus says it's like Oh like greater than the laws of man that's so weak we live like God we like live by certain rules as missionaries so we wake up at 6:30 we've got a bit at 10:30 we do in the morning we exercise we pray we get ready for the day we eat breakfast do personal study from the Bible and also the Book of Mormon and basically plan our day to study has a companionship and then go out at night tonight go out after that so this is this is your this is your missionary years this is two full years mm-hmm once you're done with those two full years what happens next like what happens next so I both went to college before you could go out when you're 18 18 to 26 you can go out but we did a semester of college before after the mission I plan to go back to that same college byu-idaho and start a family maybe like two years live down the road Brigham Young Brigham Young University yeah Idaho and plan to be a pharmacist pharmacist he had a pharmacy job in Kentucky film prescriptions and you want to be the guy behind the counter on the with the lab code yeah I'm counting pills up here is very important yeah and what are you gonna do professor I have no idea get into sales well are you familiar with Vivint home smart home hmm I can't secure what is his name the CEO not CEO the vice president of sales he's a Mormon and he knew that the skill set required to knock on doors is very unique and almost half the sales force from what I understand I could be wrong but almost half the sales force of the original push of vivint's growth over the last ten years was comprised of Mormons who had been on their mission because knocking on doors is the thing of the 50s you know selling vacuum cleaners and stuff to find people who can be good at it and do that but what's more important than knocking on a door when you're selling a home security system and he knew that was a valuable asset to business so it might be of I'm just saying it's an avenue free to consider you know pharmacists whatever you want to do that's cool so can we go for a walk well can't because I'm sitting here I'm holding this thing this is cool let's make sure we're all in the frame here and let's just go for a walk to the park so oh can you speak up just yell Elmo say you're talking too loud so I want to ask a couple theological questions a couple of questions that are like about your book your faith I was raised in a Catholic household very strict Irish Catholic household and when I say strict I mean it was strict and I was a troublemaker I was a I was the guy who was always questioning I was the guy who was my I'll tell you a quick story and then I'll ask you some questions my first communion I asked a mrs. Murphy who was the kind of the youth whatever was why we hold our hands in the prayer position why you know you put your hands together I'm sure you've seen the Catholic why do we do that and she said because we're directing our prayers towards God it's a symbol of directing our prayers upwards towards heaven and I said well if that's the case why don't we just go like this and she was like Chris sit over there I gotten a lot of trouble um my point being but I was I was always questioning yeah it's always questioning and you guys you guys you two right now and the the the church the LDS Church have a whole book that is a separate book from the Bible of the Catholic Church or the modern Christian Church what's up with that the Book of Mormon yeah so we believe in the Bible the King James basically what the Book of Mormon is is another testament of that because you got the Old Testament talks about records of God's people and the prophecies of Jesus crisis in his prophets yeah prophesying of him he got the New Testament talks about his his life his birth since his death in his resurrection Muhammad's apostles and basically the Book of Mormon it's just another witness of Christ right I saw I saw the Hill Cumorah Pageant which talks briefly about the ancient prophets and it goes through I think his name was Lehi was the original prophet and his children and all the way down and the movement of these faithful to the Americas and that's that's what the Book of Mormon is about essentially that that whole separate thing yeah and now now I'm gonna get into some theological questions why why why the third book why the new why the Old Testament New Testament and the third book if it's if it's the same if it's Jesus and it's the same Jesus why the third book with one book we have so many churches we believe that you know they do teach the same things but they're a little bit different in each each way I guess in some certain ways so with the Book of Mormon it just reestablishes God's pattern from time where he established his word from two or three witnesses and you get two from the Bible old and new Testament right the third witness we believe is the Book of Mormon and with two witnesses or three witnesses you can only interpret it strictly between the two books three books so theologically theologically you do believe in the same God essentially the same faith that most Catholics would say is is but most Catholics would not say a reciprocal phrase they wouldn't reciprocate that say there no no no no no Mormons they got this weird crazy thing that but I think and I'm not speaking for the Church of Latter day Saints but I put it but I am interpreting here maybe they say that out of ignorance maybe they say that because they haven't read The Book of Mormon maybe they say that because they don't know they just know that they're told that the Mormons were wrong therefore they must be wrong what do you pray about it we can't you just can't take a bunch of immature 19 year old oh yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't yeah you wouldn't take my advice but we just invite people to read and pray about image like we've done the same thing I was born in this church but we all need to know yes what about people who are not born in the church part of the reason you're knocking on doors is assumably to get more people to believe in and realize what you hold to be the truth I can see being raised like I said I was raised in a Catholic Church I don't consider myself at all Catholic right now some some people say you're born into a Catholic Church that means you're Catholic you just you just gone astray maybe you heard that so I can see being born and raised in a religion but what about coming to a faith like say a 36 year old is like this kind of makes sense you know I've heard a little bit let me read that book let me go to a what do you call it a massive church let me let me go to one of these services that do you have a name for the places temple meeting hall I don't know they call searches church building chapel okay so I'm I'm Melissa she's my real age I'm 34 and I say I want to go to one of these things and I start saying this makes sense to me but I didn't go on a a mission I didn't I wasn't raised in this and I I spent my whole life drinking coffee I haven't but let's just say I have that's normal American how does that fit into the whole like conversion we teach lessons based on the first lesson is usually about and it all depends on the person then we teach in how much I guess to to learn but it goes through the message of the restoration where God calls prophets gives them authority that authorities lost and things like that and this brought back so we go through lessons to teach them about you know our beliefs and when when they're like okay this is starting to make sense we invite them to to read and pray about it because ultimately God you cannot lie and he's the source of all truth and he's only tell he tell me the truth and you tell I would tell you the truth and tell everybody the truth but it's kind of hard to to know the truth that there's so many different ways and I guess that's back to the Book of Mormon to free me establish me yeah let me ask you something about like the lifestyle because it is a theological question there are a lot of personal development programs out there a lot of a lot of people that help with you know like Tony Robbins esque Brendon Burchard ask people that basically say exactly what you just told me - the religious part like if you make yourself I don't know if you've ever heard of the book miracle morning it's it's a book it's just a personal development book and he basically says if you make your morning every morning a miracle morning feed your mind feed your soul feed your spirit feed your body exercise you know keep you know make that morning just a good morning which is basically what you guys said we workout we study we pray all these things then it almost doesn't matter what happens throughout the day because your morning was so good it's gonna help the rest of the day but he just didn't add anything with the religious part like he didn't say any was studying a Bible he said study you know mathematics study English study literature study history study things just took the religious stuff out of it what is the value that you received directly from the religious element of your lifestyle because clearly physically treating your body's a temple it helps you live healthier who keeps you more energy of studying working out all these things are good but what's the value that you feel you receive from the religious aspect the prayer the meditation on a holy book what's what do you get out of that in short Oh generally for me I just feel God's love I just feel just suddenly a bear might strain my testimony and the Savior because that's all we because Christ is just like the key point of our church and we just always we just always want to keep that constant remember to just read about people's lives and their dealings with God and Jesus Christ and sometimes they're similar to what I'm facing in that moment sometimes I'll be reading it and don't receive direction on how to maybe help somebody else through what they're what they're going through so that's kind of like how it helps me just helps me see like I'm not the only one that go through this problem there's people in this book there's hope you kind of focus yourself through basically example yeah let me ask you you said you feel and you kind of nodded when he said this it helps you feel God's love I'm again having been raised in a Catholic and a Christian household I've heard this you know the first 20 years of my life God's love the Holy Spirit and all the stuff to this day I don't know what that means to this day I don't think I've ever felt a presence I don't think I've ever felt a love from something other than a human yeah what do you mean when you say I feel God's this is really important I think to a lot of people what do you mean when you say I feel God's love like what does that mean how does that feel is that is that a sensation of warmth like the literal warmth or it depends on the person like I there's a sister missionary she if she feels like the spirit life feels like God's love kind of the same she cries and then there's like different kinds of emotions by that but we like from the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints we we believe that we're literal sons and daughters of God that we are in spirit children like like our parents like if you love your parents it's like it's kind of that relationship that's that's the whole problem with the whole God and Jesus thing is that really is the crux of the problem is my parents I can call my dad up right now and physically hear his voice in my ears I can see him on Christmas and Easter and Thanksgiving and shake his hand and say how you doing but but I just I wouldn't how do you feel God he's not tangible there is no unless you do hear God's voice lost you there in the camera yeah I believe God through works through people sometimes to answer my prayers do other people will just say say one thing and be like that's exactly what I prayed for and and it's like no coincidence and that's like [Music] that's like two random acts of service maybe so let me let me ask a question that's I don't wanna ask a challenging question yet but I do want to ask a question that's kind of challenging meeting you too by the way do you go by your first names already go by elder Thorin elder uh Kelly okay so having met elder Thorpe and elder Kelly you guys seem like nice guys you seem like you're nice you seem like you're genuine you seem honest and you seem like you truly want to help people live better lives and as a matter of fact every encounter that I've had with Mormons like I said I told you earlier I went to the Hill Cumorah Pageant over in Palmyra and ironically the most aggressive hateful people were the protestors just chanting just pure anger at the people who I could only perceive were just pure positivity they were like welcome please enjoy if you have any questions we'll answer them may your spirit be lifted by our performance you know just constant just positivity that being said why do people believe there's something negative what are the negative what is it that I know what they are the people saying you know that there's there's um you know subjugation of women you don't you know religion keeps women subjugated and not an equal with men and I've heard all that but that being said I don't think that's the biggest issue I think anybody who says like a religious person is a crazy person or something like that obviously hasn't talked to either of you you I wouldn't look at either one of you and say you're crazy I would say you're nice people you'reyou're want to make the world a better place you want to be a pharmacist you don't know what you want to do but I'm sure whatever you do you'll probably do be do good at it do well so well why do you think there's such an attack on religion especially the first in Revelations where it's not to add or take away the Bible oh I guess their point of view is the Book of Mormon adding to the Bible our beliefs on that was a little bit yeah the Bible was a bunch of Scrolls written kind of how Paul wrote epistles to the people yeah those girls it necessarily wasn't a book at the time until Constantine or somebody put it together and we believe that the scrolls were not necessarily put in order either and so what was revelations was talking about that John was talking about real quick yeah my Catholic teaching is is coming through here and some people will actually use them and say well clearly you don't know the Bible because you're calling it revelations which is just just shows you're just ignorant which i think is totally not true and I'm a skeptic by the way I don't I don't have a a clear I'm not gonna say you're wrong you could be 100 percent right but I'm not gonna say I'm wrong either like I don't have a explicit belief in a particular rule set but you're talking about other Christian faiths of which there are many what about non-christian faiths or no faith just agnostic or or completely I just I just don't faith in some supernatural thing is totally irrelevant and those Mormons they're clearly crazy which you're clearly not why do you I think they I guess believing in something that we can't see is can be crazy to some people who haven't had that Christian background that thing for I'm not saying you crazy but yeah I'm sure you've heard it before yeah I'm sure you oh let me ask about that how's your door-knocking going oh lightly it's it's been it's been rough I mean the weather's nice yeah though it was awesome now there's just there's we just get a variety of people my god we're all set we're interested thanks for stopping by yeah yeah it kind of like kind of like that but we respect what they what they believe do you get you get general curiosity some door people are legitimate like you know what I have been searching for some answers come on in here get that yes Wow the original original but the old Catholic I can't remember what they call and they call them the papers of something the papers of the Vatican or something like that they were set the last time they were set was 1996 but before that they were from like 1930 or something and it was doctrine it was Catholic doctrine that there was no salvation but through Jesus Christ through the Catholic Church that was their doctrine so Mormons were out what what's what's another Christian almost any Protestant denomination you know there wasn't through the Catholic Church so this was doctrine so that caused a lot of stress in people's lives about what what about the hereafter what about eternity I've been brought up as a Baptist and I'm not and then they hear this this huge organization the catholic church there is no salvation but through jesus christ and the catholic church do you have any anything equivalent to that like anything strict I don't know how strict the church is the Mormon teachings are they super strict or they like kind of vague or it's so we believe the same thing like you're not going to hell if you drink coffee in other words we believe that salvation comes in and through Jesus Christ we're again people can attack us they believe we believe in and works that were saved by works and we're not saved by works so that's the thing that's what I mean like some I have heard that but you just told me that that's not true at all that's not a doctrine Allah is it not doctrinally correct so we believe in grace by Jesus Christ and died on the cross and was resurrected we could all be resurrected everybody on earth will be resurrected that's what we believe and God can only judge us do good works to use a Catholic phrase what do you think about this maybe it's the same the the Catholic teaching is that salvation is an on/off switch it is a yes or a no but you are still judged by your works so you can attain salvation through Christ and then you can attain crowns in heaven through your works so like getting into heaven is an on/off yes or no but you might have more rewards in heaven based off your works does that sound at all there's a place prohibition time it's called the spirit world it's like a place between death and final judgment they're similar to Catholic perfect Ori it's kind of like the what many people believe Heaven and Hell kind of thing but we believe that either there's spirit paradise or spirit prison which is like spirit prisons learning more about Jesus Christ for those that even have it sounds a lot better than a place of torture and torment so it's like say like someone from a third-world country they'd rather heard the name Jesus Christ and after they died they doesn't seem fair firt don't think Oh doesn't seem like a merciful just God to me yeah so we believe that people after they died this place called the spirit world like you said and they're learning more about Jesus Christ and they have a chance to let me ask let me ask you because you kind of you're kind of going into that theological supernatural hard to touch a spirit world you know you know where's that spirit world there's a question that I first heard from I believe it was Christopher Hitchens are you familiar engines he's probably one of the most pronounced atheist pushers there's there's a group of him Vic called the four horsemen they kind of nicknamed him Krista Fisher is one of them and I was listening to a talk where he was debating I think rabbi wall P David Wolpe who was a very prominent Jewish rabbi and Christian said salvation from what and I was a good question let's hear about what does rabbi hope you have to say now you keep saying that you know salvation for our sins Jesus died for and I and I know the doctor I play again I grew up with ourselves in a Christian household salvation from what you say you need Christ for salvation but salvation from what so you have number one from sin we believe that we everything involves Jesus Christ you can only get to the Father because of Jesus Christ we pray in the name of Jesus Christ were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ everything he's basically our example salvation can I can I give you the challenging statement that kind of challenged you know kind of diverted my thought process was this he said this is what you're telling me salvation is and again I'm not trying to you know start at a debate or an hour or or you know no that's a kind of a here's that here's the thought so God created the universe he made a set of rules where sin was breaking those rules so if we break those rules he needs to punish us because he made those rules he also made the rules for the punishment so he made the rules and he made the punishment so the punishment for sin is death the wages of sin is death and in order to pay those wages some perfect sacrifice other than a lamb or a pigeon needed to be made so the only perfect sacrifice that he could think of was himself Christ God and Christ the son is basically himself is his only begotten Son so basically God has to sacrifice himself in order to save us from himself yeah what do you think about that I mean it was a challenging state now I guess another hopefully I'm gonna I'm not looking for clarity or one way though just what are your thoughts on that that is definitely an interesting thought he set the terms you know it's kind of like a contract right we have broke the contract any every man will sing our beliefs in God Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost differ from mainstream believe they're three separate distinct in it's like us like God has a physical body God the Father has a physical body yeah I bet that is in our universe or he can to use a fantasy fiction novel that he can manifest an avatar or something like he's up there like there's a physical God somewhere not a spirit like a metaphysical he's perfected okay so truly his son like his yeah like if you were to use a scientific phrase his his DNA son okay I did not know that that your teachings were that God is a physical being I've always known God to be a spiritual person what some new everyday well either way you know a meaning if you were to say it this way God made the rules that the only wage of sin is death therefore he's going to kill his only son to save himself save us from himself Richard Dawkins asked a question if God made the rules why didn't he just forgive us why the death what why does he need blood why does he need to have something die why not just forgive why not just say you are forgiven I mean he made the rules for sin right like if God didn't make the rules for sin then you could do whatever you want it wouldn't be a sin it would just be inefficient for human life yeah you know murdering someone is inefficient it's not a sin in some people's eyes but it's but it's certainly inefficient certainly doesn't make for a good society to murder people but if it's a sin why doesn't he just say I forgive you you are forgiven I don't need you to kill something I don't need you to specially my own son by the way I'm pretty fond of ya what do you think kind of like any parent it wouldn't be a learning process I think it's somebody and the parent would be like oh I forgive you it's like the guy that guy hit her what does the PERT what does the kid learn he doesn't learn not to hit it's kind of what God is getting us a learning process of how to become better become more like in without sin there would be no good without good there'd be no evil without it just be a state of just there now I don't want to challenge you guys too hard with like a major theological question but I do have one more question we've been going for almost 45 minutes is of a long interview and there are a lot of what people would call contradictions in the Bible a lot of questions a lot of questions about the Bible again to use sam harris as as a quote he said any eighth grade american student any could make a better rule book to live your life than the bible don't beat up the other kids on the playground don't hurt other people like and that's a pretty interesting statement like any 8th grader could you could modify the bible really quick take out a couple of the murders and the rapes and the other things yeah and a couple of things like don't abuse children on the eleventh commandment and call it a day it's a better book if revelation and prophecy is still happening today why can't we edit the bible why can't we change it that's my last theological question that's it like people if you if you say it's I'm gonna make an 11th commandment people will call that blasphemy like you said you can't change these words every jot and tittle study ever John tittle know that these are mine like you can't change that but why any 8 any sixth grader could make it better why not do you think especially if prophets and revelation is still happening today what kind of already is anyone's game that's why there's 5 thousands of denominations I mean I think I think I think you really do have to be water baptized though you can't be saved and then someone else of it you know I mean well what if there's no water what if you live in a desert you know like well you you weren't water baptized well yeah so I think it's already fair game yeah once God speaks it's his work forever kind of like that faith we have to trust that the Bible is is God's Word through his prophets and things so I do have one more question it's it one more question and that is some people look at the idea that Moses spoke to God as I'm speaking to you as truth that God spoke to Moses as I'm speaking to you clear voice and he spoke to a couple people Elijah there were at least three example two written examples in the Bible of of people not dying but we were taken up into heaven to include Enoch and Elijah so there's a lot of pretty miraculous things that happen in the in these books I haven't read The Book of Mormon are there examples of someone not having died but what being taken up or trand whatever translated or translated to have anything like that that's not the question but there are okay so people will read in an ancient text hundreds and hundreds of years old in this case like 400 AD I think was when Mormon you know four hundred eighty or so most of the Old Testament was written four thousand years ago three and a half whatever it was New Testament eighteen hundred years ago they take these things at face value but if today someone was to stand on the streets of New York and say God speaks to me as I'm speaking to you right now I hear his voice in my head he would be taken off the streets like he would literally be locked away like whoa this guy's you know he is he gonna start hurting someone do you believe that God does speak to people in a clear voice as he spoke to Moses or is that are those days gone by and if so why just it's a tough one I know we believe in a modern-day prophet and apostles that Jesus Christ his original Church has established and through this modern day prophet yelps leads people like Moses and Abraham then we do believe that God speaks to that he gives us a vice-like matter some today like pornography or the dangers of that or like social media yeah you don't need a prophet to tell you there something wrong yeah you don't yeah that's any modern psychology yeah God is speaking to me right now and he says that even if what he said made sense like God is speaking to me he's telling me everyone should be kind to each other they would still be like mmm some of that guy even though he's saying good words I mean what's wrong with saying everyone should be kind to each other but because he's saying God is talking I can hear his voice clear as day I mean how would you react if somebody said that maybe I mean I don't know if you have what are your church leaders cause some priests or deacons do you have bishops that say God clearly spoke to me or I don't know more inspirations we believe there's a there's a pattern where God calls prophets after the order of Melchizedek after his priesthood Authority and so that's that's the pattern that he works works for people could say like oh the prophets just you could say a prophet we believe you could say like oh he's just a crazy man saying that he's receiving God's Word from from God hearing God's Word the reason why we don't freak out is because we please he's ordained after that order that God has established and so if that man on the streets says that he's literally hearing the Word of God and he's saying it to us even if they are are good things made it'd be like okay how are you called by God to speak for him because that's something no well he just said but God is speaking to me that's how I was okay he's talking to me right now I'm getting it right from him yeah and there's the pattern through the laying on the hands and somebody must have heard God's voice first in order to know that the laying on of hands is the right way to do it it must have started some is he a good person is he leading me towards Jesus Christ Prophet Joseph Smith his fruits are the Book of Mormon did Joseph Smith any write anything himself I didn't know that it's just a fundamental like or is he just revealing the Book of Mormon mistake translated through the gift and power of God right so it weren't he didn't actually write anything I'm so he was translating okay well I need to get off the field object of questions I want to ask you just a couple more basic questions who's who is the church leader of the truth did they have a pope or yeah it's it's like it's like kind of the same system but it's we have the Prophet he's the leader okay and who was that its president Russell I'm Nelson Russell M Nelson okay never heard of him should I does he ever lazy around like television or just seems like a YouTube channel or I have no literally no idea so the church post this video is about him okay we hold a conference twice a year where he speaks to the world I've seen some of the temples yeah they have just have you been to one of those the staggering there's staggering like all inspiring temples they somebody really got an architect to sit down and do some work on those so you there's a was his name Nelson yeah Russell Nelson you could google him I don't know if I'm ever gonna show this to anybody except maybe myself I don't know but if we do I'll get you know take an opportunity to talk at the camera and if you want to push some idea or say something nice that's up you elder Kelly I personally we're just out here just reading the book up telling people at the Book of Mormon and I know it's from God as this was the Bible we should read both of them and we should really just read and ponder the message about the Book of Mormon just pray know it's true by the holy goat by the power of the Holy Ghost you may know the truth of all things that's all our invitation as missionaries elder Authority if you see me knocking on your door or people like us be kind to us we're we're good people we make mistakes but we're really just trying to help you understand how you can give back to Jesus Christ how you can know him more fully how you can come to build a relationship with him and if you don't agree then please kindly say this isn't for me and we'll gladly go on our way yeah and we're not perfect teachers or okay well thanks a lot guys really appreciate your time I know you guys are busy I'm kind of busy myself but I couldn't pass up an opportunity okay
