Christian Talks to Two Mormon Elders Part 1

what's up y'all this is Preston Perry and this is another episode of OTV where we live in love of truth let's get right into it even though he submits perfectly to the wheel of the Father that does not mean that the father is God so in this episode I'm talking to two Mormons who agreed to have a sit-down conversation with me their Mormon missionaries who don't live in Atlanta Georgia while live they are actually from different parts of the United States but they came here to do full-time missionary work i sat down with them and I had a very very long encouraging challenging conversation with them our conversation lasted about three hours we literally talked into the Sun came down and we talked about so many different things so in this video you're gonna see us talking about different things about who the person of Christ is how can we obtain salvation what is the gospel and all the things that we kind of different as far as theology goes so what is your definition of grace I think grace is something that God gives it is a gift it is something that we haven't earned on our own it is yes something is it's a gift I think that is it's it's something that God gives these children to you know to part them from death to allow them to escape escape to think that we you know rightfully deserve and give us life without us working for it I think that's I think that's grace that's my definition of grace I think that's what grace is I think it's not a it's not something that we can earn right you're you're 100% right there's nothing that we can do to earn grace yes that is 100 percent freely given Christ suffered in the garden Gethsemane he died on the cross and he rose for every single one of us whether you believe in him yeah okay so you but so you believe that that that grace is a gift grace is a gift grace grace is 100 percent again and we can't earn it no so so in second Nephi verse 25 yeah ii ii v take a second e 525 [Music] yeah so this one says right in secondly 525 verse 3 it says for we diligently write to persuade our children also our brethren to believe in Christ which I believe and to be reconciled to God for we we we know that it is about grace that we are saved after all we can do now what Ephesians what Ephesians says is that we are saved by grace through faith and it is a gift not of our works least any man can boast yeah so I so so so it seems as if the Book of Mormon in the book of Bible is kind of plashed I'm just trying to which one do you believe do you believe they were saved by grace through faith and it's not a gift it is nothing of our own doing or do you believe that was saved by grace through faith after all we can do so I can say here and I can say that I believe both of them and still be ok ok yeah yeah that's what I that's what I want to explain to me because I never want to I never want to feel like I'm working for God's favor if I don't have to so that's something that I would love for you guys to explain to me because I never really had somebody to break the scripture down down so can I ask you a question real quick how did you come across the scripture so one of the things that I do like I told you before I study and I want to just know the truth so not only have I read some of the book of Book of Mormon I've also read the New World Translation I've read some of the Quran read some yeah yeah I just I want to know truth so it's important to me this like it's important to you that's and so and I came from Chicago and a melting pot of so many different religions and it was just confusing to me and so being a boy growing up you know with Hebrew Israelites around me I never the end ones but I've had all those witnesses and you know yeah yeah all these different religions around me I just kind of like you know went out and got books and and read and studied because I want to know I want to know I want to know the truth I want to know the true God if there is you know a God I believe that there is only one true God and I want to know him so that's the reason why I came across the scripture that's awesome and and when we answer questions like this and when we answer other questions we don't want to be contentious or anything like that and we don't want to go back and forth no no no no no no it wasn't one of the things I wanted one of the things I want to do is I don't want to disrespect you guys I'm gonna give you guys dignity I believe I believe that we're all made in the image of God and yeah I just I don't you run every yeah yeah I wanna know which is truth which one of you bewitch which one of you believe is true do you really that was saved by grace through faith after all we can do or do you believe that were saved by grace and it's not about works so I can't like it like I said before I can take both of the scriptures and put them together and say and that's what I'll try to do right yeah yeah I've tried that I've tried that I've tried to make them fit and and try to see how they how they fit or whatever but to me it kind of seems it's a big clash against each other so if you if you if you believe in both if you believe in Ephesians and you also believe me pull the scripture in decision yes yes yes I think it's even Stu yeah you could go ahead and read it my Bible is kind of big yeah it says for by grace are you saved through faith and that and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God not of works lest any man should boast yes oh how do I get yeah that's perfect so like from Ephesians we read that there's we cannot work for our salvation there's there's nothing that we can do there's no there's no amount of works that we could do to kind of level out where Christ took because that's false but yes Christ took upon us and there's description in the Book of Mormon I'm gonna read real quick yeah it's Alice chapter 7 verses 11 through 13 and it says and he talking about Jesus Christ shall go forth suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind and this set the word might be fulfilled that we say if you will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people and he will take upon him death that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people and he will take upon him their infirmities that his bowels may be filled with mercy according to the flesh that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people or give assistance to his people he said sucker what a sucker meaning give assistance ok give assistance yeah according to their infirmities now the spirit knoweth all things nevertheless the son of god suffereth according to the flesh he might take upon him the sins of his people that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance and now behold this is the testimony which is in me so we read that Christ suffered not only for our sins but our for our pains and our afflictions and our temptations he did that he did all that for us yeah and there's nothing there's no works that we could do there's no amount of good deeds that we could do that could pay him back absolutely nothing we could do to pay him back absolutely absolutely and I know and I agree with that I never want to cut you off again I'm cutting you officers let me just let me know I agree with that I believe that I believe that grace is a gift I believe that we cannot earn it I'm still just trying to I'm still trying to reconcile the Book of Mormon where it says that we are saved okay okay yeah yeah yeah and so and then we go to Ephesians where we read for by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God not of works lest any minister DOS so from that we read that we're saved by grace through our faith in Jesus Christ yes right not my work so we cannot go and help so many people although groceries into their car from a car shopping cart or anything like that yeah there's nothing that we can do in the Book of Mormon we read in 2nd Nephi chapter 2 old chapter 25 verse 23 yeah kind of a background of this like actually let's just read it it says when you labor diligently to write to persuade our children and also our brethren to believe in Christ and to be reconciled to God for we know that is by grace that we are saved after all we can do kind of like the after all we can do part if we look at our definition of grace kind of if we we can switch it and something I like to do is taken grace and like define it as like kind of the enabling power of the atonement of Jesus Christ what do you mean by that what do you mean it might kind of help us like grace you being the thing that helps us out when we like realistically we couldn't be so consistent or like grace is like enabling us like what would that that would that's the thing so without what I believe the Scriptures is communicating and correct me if I'm wrong right I believe the scripture is saying that we need like we can do it on our own oh yeah I know that's old and but but I also believe that because we cannot do anything about our own we have to trust him the person of Jesus Christ not to do a partial oh oh yeah the full word yeah so so so I guess my question in second Nephi 25 verse 23 when it says they were saved by grace through faith we are saved by grace through faith after all we can do what is the what is the after all we can do what is that what is that what is that part what is what is what is what what do you do first before God's grace comes in and kind of save the day what is that what is the part that we do that it allows grace to come in yes I think the main part is receiving it and kind of where it talks about a real sincere heart and real intent that scripture that would kind of read before yeah like like I'm trying to think like the best way to describe it like it is by grace that we are saved after all that we can do it's by the enabling power of the atonement of Jesus Christ that will carry us forward Christ I think talks about it can't remember the book in the New Testament we're talking about enduring to the end there's no way that we can endure to the end by ourselves yeah we need God we need we need God to work yeah well it's easy so here's the thing so we're not we're not gonna I guess the thing that I'm trying to ask you guys is it is because it seems as if when it says I was saved by grace through faith all we can do in the Book of Mormon it seems as if it's saying we have to do something in order for God's grace to to come and intervenes I think the main part of it is talking about faith kind of talking about faith in John his faith the gift do you believe that faith is a gift you mean like can we have faith in God without him him without him granting us the gift of faith right so we have faith in God because he's allowed us to believe him do you believe that yes oh wow but there's a complete difference in saying that you believe in something and actually believing Aglio talks about it in James Patrick oh yeah in James it talks about it in James chapter 2 up faith without works is dead and so that means like now we can say that we believe something but if there's not a if there's not a change in us can you explain to me what faith without works they mean like a change like but that real intent that sincere heart and real intent like according to the faith that I have I'm gonna live a certain way because not because I have to earn my way to heaven it's because I want to please God I want to do what he wants me to do I want to live by the commitments that he's given me so but it seems as if it seems as if and this this is what I I've come to believe that when the Bible says in James that face without works is dead it's not saying that our works our works please God as it pertains to our salvation right I think what I think what he's explaining in this passage is that our faith is a result of our faith in Christ that we got been granted it's not it's not because we're working to please God or to assess oh yeah we're not working to please God we're doing it out of our own life there's nothing that we can do to earn our way back to heaven right there's nothing that we can do to earn salvation that's a free gift given of Jesus Christ and that that's the reason why I'm confused because uh if you guys can help me just explain it like when it says that we are saved by grace through faith after all we can do what it what what do you do in order to be saved by grace and faith what what exactly would practically what does that look like what do you think it looks like I don't know that's the reason why that's the rest of it that's the reason why I'm acting I don't want to I don't want to put you know words and you guys mouth I want to just I want to under I'm gonna get to understand it from from from you elder strong with you other young now as you can tell the elder is really not answering my question when I'm asking him how is the Book of Mormon and secondly if I sent something different in the Holy Bible saying in Ephesians and that's because a lot of Mormons don't believe that they have a works based salvation that they have a work based faith and one of the things that I try to do when I talk to Mormons is try to highlight the fact that your founder does teach you that show works and Christ works is what saves you and the Bible just doesn't teach that so in a very respectful way what I was trying to do is show him how the Book of Mormon clashes with another book that he believes is true which is the Holy Bible because that's what Mormons believe Mormons believe that the Book of Mormon is just another testament of God's holy scriptures but if it is another testament of God's holy scriptures the Book of Mormon shouldn't say anything that contradict something that was written thousands of years before the Book of Mormon was written and second Nephi contradicts Ephesians 2:8 and that's what I was trying to get him to see okay and so a lot of these beliefs go back and forth and we could sit here and we can pick apart what we believe but at the end of the day what really matters is this is if the Book of Mormon is true so how do you know how do how do you know the Book of Mormon to be true how can you know that for sure well how the Book of Mormon he passed I have I have an idea but I want you to explain to me so in 1830 the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints was formed by Joseph Smith Joseph Smith was called to reorganize or not real Ernest to restore the church upon the earth we believe that after the death of Jesus Christ after the death of his apostles there came a period of time known as an apostasy where the priesthood or the authority to perform those ordinances was taken off the earth so let me so you believe that you believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet that was the most a prophet that God sent to restore the Word of God because it was some talent yeah so we believe that Joseph Smith was called as a prophet of God and the same way that other prophets in the Bible we read Moses and Abraham and Isaac right if God is the same yesterday today and forever and he had prophets in the Old Testament and you have prophets in the New Testament and these prophets led bodies of people congregations all right wouldn't there be a prophet on the earth today and that's what we believe we believe that the Word of God is the revealed the Word of God that the Holy Scriptures not the Book of Mormon but the Holy Scriptures is what God gates was people to express his heart so so we can know what he requires from his people so let me let me continue I'll guess so in 1830 the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints was restored on the earth what we believe and that that priesthood was also restored that priesthood in order to perform ordinances such as Baptism and Confirmation okay so will you say restore what do you mean like what happens so when when you restore a car it's different than a Reformation something happens in the car and what it's a in order and something happens in the car and that's why you get to restore the car right yeah so what happened to the Word of God what we believe and this is what we believe that after the death of Jesus Christ and His apostles which was terrible but Christ atone for our sins which was ultimately necessary for us to go back and live with Heavenly Father right we believe that after that happened and after his apostles died as well that error crept into the church unauthorized changes were being made and evidence of this is taking a gospel principle and looking at all of the different beliefs on it so you believe that no one had a true interpretation of the Bible into the eighteen hundreds no we did the Book of Mormon Nick actually yeah you're right we do believe I'm so so so so until and like so God so God over 2,000 years ago came and revealed himself to man this is what he did right he came and he dwelled in human history God became man and in the flesh he appeared to people he died gruesome death after his resurrection he appeared to over 500 people he preaches he tells him to go make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit he tells them that I am with you in to the end of age so you're telling me that a 20th century prophet comes along nearly 2,000 years later and then finally comes and give people the true interpretation of what God has said about himself in the world in his word when he himself came and revealed himself to all the creation so God called prophets in the Old Testament so the prophets but the prophets did was the prophets revealed or prophesied that one day a messiah will come that his name shall be Emmanuel they will be born in a manger that they've ate they they came and they preached this this this Savior that would come and the prophets that was with Jesus on the earth right they they lived they lived amongst him some of them live amongst him the disciples they were practice I believe what a prophet is essentially is someone who speaks on behalf of God yeah that's that's what a prophet is look I didn't I didn't finish my thought so what they did was they lived with Jesus the disciples walk with Jesus they learned they learned his ways they learned his teachings and then Jesus leaves them and says that I'm with you into the end of age not only that he says that I was sin a helper the helper is also God right the Holy Spirit is God I was saying the third person I believe in the Trinity of the Trinity to help you right to fulfill all of my Commandments right so you're saying that that was not sufficient that all 2,000 years later a prophet Joseph Smith had to come and do something that the that God in the flesh came and couldn't do No so that prophets in the Old Testament and yes they prophesied and Jesus yeah but they also did a little bit more than that they led people they led people Moses was a prophet he led the children of Israel out of Egypt but I think the difference between I think the different when I thought I'm gonna quickly say the difference between the prophets of oh right we I think you will agree with this and Joseph Smith is Joseph Smith came 2,000 years after Jesus Joseph Smith came nearly my great-great-great grandmother was alive and Joseph Smith was alive right so so here so this is the thing you have this you have this prophet who comes and says when in Matthew 24 25 it says heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away do you have a you have a crappie that comes 2,000 years later and says you know what some of God's words did pass away and I'm the prophet to come to and restore the church I even read some of Joseph Smith's readings and he says in the thinking the doctrine of covenants he says that all of the Christians professors are corrupt and needed to be restored yeah we believe that's a church need to be restored now the evidence of this because this is pretty bold how do you reconcile that John I got explain evidence of this the evidence of Joseph Smith being a prophet or not the evidence of if our church is true which we believe it is the evidence of if the priesthood has been restored to the earth if the gospel has been restored to the earth all of these all this evidence is found here is found in the Book of Mormon now we could argue all ridges how do you know that to be true oh how do I know the Book of Mormon to be true yeah I'm getting that well no no that's not my question how do you know there Joseph Smith is so it's a true prophet of God that's perfect that's answering that by the Book of Mormon by the Book of Mormon so if the Book of Mormon is true if the Book of Mormon is of God if it's actually a record that takes place here in the Americas what that means about Joseph Smith is he's a prophet of God like there's there's it's black or white right we read in the in the New Testament and revelations that it's like it's either hot or cold not lukewarm unless I spew thee from them from my mouth right yes so it's either true or it's not it's either right no your soul soul so you have determined that Joseph Smith I'm not trying touching oh no no no I'm getting further than that okay so if the Book of Mormon is of God and it is what it said is this another testament of Jesus Christ then that means Joseph Smith was a prophet of God right that means that the church has been restored to the earth today now we can argue about or discuss origins of the Book of Mormon but regardless of what it is the book I'm holding it in my hand and you're having one there and he has one in his back what if what if what if the Book of Mormon says something different than what the Bible says so let me get to that okay so we have all of these different conspiracies of how the Book of Mormon came to back but regardless it's here it's in my hand all right the Book of Mormon was produced and a little over 80 working days right and one manuscript by a kid who had it at education of a third grader okay right so you have that you have this monster feet 531 pages that I'm holding in my hand right okay that no one can honestly tell us any other way of its accounting for so if you can tell me where this book came from right if you can tell me where the Book of Mormon came from and have like a conviction about it yeah I would want to listen to you but I'd know beyond logic at the Book of Mormon sure I know by the power of the Holy Ghost as we read it so the Holy Ghost told you that the Book of Mormon is true yes so so so okay so this is this is my question for you so you believe that you prayed or you believe that when you pray to pray a God revealed to you that the Book of Mormon is true is that what you're saying I believe that there's numerous answers that you can feel and receive answers I think a good one let me actually what you just said I'm trying to answer it well I actually asked acid a question I actually questioned for a follow-up question so if I came to you and told you that God revealed to me through prayer I pray to him and God revealed to me that I can sleep with my girlfriend outside of marriage and that it's okay because I prayed a prayer and God said I could what would you tell me that's false how I know how would you know Galatians chapter 5 in Matthew chapter 7 Galatians chapter 5 tells us the fruits of the spirit but the fruit of the Spirit is love joy peace long-suffering gentleness goodness faith meekness temperance against such there is no law so we know that when we experience those feelings or when we have those emotions or when when we feel love when we feel joy when we feel peace like we know that that's the spirit and the Spirit testifies of truth Matthew chapter 7 it talks about false prophets but also goes in a little bit where it says you shall know them by their fruits do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles and so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit but a corrupt tree bringeth rose bathroom yeah so there so I don't want you to go deeper because the reason why is because I can I'm in complete agreement with you okay I believe that having sex outside of marriage is wrong see but the thing is the reason why I asked that question is because when I asked the question the first thing you said was that she believes that having sex outside the marriage is wrong because the Bible says that but the thing is that kind of confuses me you don't do the same thing with Joseph Smith's prophecies yeah but here's the thing you said you said you said the way you tested Joseph Smith is a prophet is that you prayed a prayer and God revealed to us more than that no sir you have to have to live it right so all of them I went I want you to finish your thought and I went so my thought is finished I'll finish I believe that you believe that it's more than that but but when it comes to the Bible and how the Bible tells us to know if a prophet is of God and not that's not how the Bible tells us to test the Prophet the Bible tells us right here by the by their fruits yes Bob the fruits but it also tells us it also tells us how we know somebody can be a false prophet no no no no no in Deuteronomy in Deuteronomy it tells us that if a prophet doing running eighteen thousands of Prophet prophesied prophecy and their property does not come to pass that he's a false prophet and not to fear him it also says early in Deuteronomy that we know someone is a false prophet if they do one thing if they lead you after other gods so we're not being led after other gods and Joseph Smith has made many prophecies which have come to pass so let me ask you the question and you guys are Mormons I'm I haven't grew up around members of the church we members of the Church of Jesus Christ and I'm not and I haven't grew up around a lot of them right do you believe that when you die you can become a god one day do we believe in eternal progression so what we're reading here and what we're talking about is what I was talking about before we started any of this talking about points and bets and stuff like if you're you came here and to meet with us to ask us what our beliefs are yeah and I'm gonna explain it to you real quick okay so my question is I guess the question that I have if if if if there's only one guy how can how can how can we become gods how can we become gods and it also if it's one guy you said earlier and I I heard you say but I didn't respond but you said that you believe that that the father and the son the Son and the Holy Spirit three separate gods but the Bible tells us that they are all equally died says that they are one yeah what in purpose no well and okay I'll let you okay I'm sorry oh yeah explain it to me so my testimony of the church and my testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith and my testimony of the Book of Mormon had come by living the principles okay it's not by receiving answers blatantly in that set it's not by any heavenly manifestation of an angel or anything like that it's by the still small voice and by constant line upon line precept upon precept which says it in the Bible and in the Book of Mormon how God reveals truth line upon line precept upon precept here a little there a little yes I'm never gonna I'm trying to follow you you say a lot in bunches and that's right I don't want you to think I'm cutting you off but when I have a fall I want to just I want to just I want to just say it because you said you when you say when you say things you kind of say five things and it's kind of hard for me to like address or to acts or to get a grasp of all five things that make sense so I'm trying to follow everything but when you explain things you can't explain them in bunches and I want to kind of try to stick to one thing so I can get a grant so I want to I want you to I want you to act answer if if there's only one God right cuz I've read I've read a little bit of the doctrine of covenants I read a little bit of the pearl of great price I've read some of the Mormons right and so and I've even read Joseph Smith's King father with this course sermon when he says that I've imagined and suppose that God was a that we have imagined and suppose that God was a God of eternity a refute that idea and took the vales off your Isaac so that we may see that we must learn to become God's one day that's what that's what that's what Joseph Smith said so how how can we reconcile that that when so with the question I'm not I'm getting to the question do you believe that people who have been Mormons have went on and become gods no so you don't believe that you can become a God one no okay so what he said no I had a feeling that he wasn't all the way being honest with me and the reason why was because he was familiar with the king follow a discourse sermon that Joseph Smith preached and the 1800s where he told everybody there that we must learn to become God's one day just like God learned to become God one day and let me explain what Joseph Smith means when he says this Mormons do not believe that the father God has always been God they believe that the father God actually was a man who progressed to becoming a God and just like he progressed to becoming a God they also can progress to becoming a God that's what they believe in their religion so what he said no I think that he wasn't able to explain how he can become a God so I think that he was just forced to kind of say no but later all when I act by the king follow a discourse sermon he doesn't deny that Joseph Smith actually made the claim that they can become gods and that's kind of a testament to a lot of the inconsistencies in the Mormon doctrine they'll try to deny things and say you know we don't think that we can become gods one day when you show them that it's not consistent with Scripture but will you bring up a lot of Joseph Smith's prophecies or a lot of Joseph Smith's claims that we can become a god one day because they believe that Joseph Smith is a true prophet they won't say Joseph Smith is wrong because if Joseph Smith is wrong the whole foundation is wrong because he is the founder of the Mormon LDS Church okay so we read when Jesus Christ was baptized that a voice came from heaven saying that and we find the quote I don't want to quote it wrong this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased so Jesus Christ is in the water well there's a voice coming out of heaven speaking we read in John chapter 17 Jesus Christ giving his intercessory prayer we read in the wild Jesus Christ is on the cross where we say my God my God why hast thou forsaken me there's a couple there's plenty of other different examples where Christ is praying to the Father which if they are the same person if Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father the same person he's then praying to himself which is I don't think that can happen knowing he's not praying I've been after the martyrdom of Stephen Stephen said that there was he saw - right he saw there was that on so this is what I'm not trying to cut you off but I know what you're saying so this is what I believe and I think it you have the foundation when I believe that you would never say that so Christians do not believe in this thing call well I don't believe in this thing called modalism right modalism is his idea that came around around the early church right that God existed moulds that the father stops being the father and acts as a son and the son starts being the son acts as the Holy Spirit that they kind of take turns being one another I don't believe that that's called modalism okay I believe finish my thought I know I don't I just want to put a pin in this for a second but what you are you talking about modalism is in evidence or or like yeah I know what you got say is evidence that we have different doctrine it's an evidence of apostasy yes yeah yeah but that okay but the Bible doesn't teach that so like if you if you read a about a guy named Julian right I'm in the second century he fought against that guy named Sibelius who came into the who tried to creep into the church and the second century around 286 AD and he sought the preach this thing called modalism and what truly indeed was he defined what the trinity is he defined that God is one God who exists in three co-equal persons so the father is not the son the son is not the holy spirit and the holy spirit is not the it's not the son right that there are three co-equal persons who exist in one God that there are one in in nature who have three distinct roles they're not three distinct gods because if they're authoring this thing cause if the father is God if the Holy Spirit is a God is if Jesus is a God that kind of contradicts Scripture right and I said wait if it doesn't if it doesn't contradict Scripture how did how do you reconcile when when the Bible says isaiah 43:10 that but there were no God's fallen for me neither shall there be gods after me I am the first and the last besides me there is no God so so God says before me there was no God formed neither shall be gods after me besides me there is no God so God says that not only has it not been a God before me that's not a God after me and I haven't even known of any gods so this whole concept of the Trinity we don't believe in we believe in so I believe in that God had that that's that's that's evident well I think the Godhead is the Trinity I think the guy is the Trinity I think that I think that's what so we want to make sure that we don't believe this a I want like I would be awesome if we believe the same thing definitely yeah that's what we're talking yeah so we believe that Heavenly Father Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost Murli that three different we believe that they're separate yes three different so hot so how do you so so how do you explain Isaiah 43 when God says there is no God beside him okay here let me pull up an equal squared equal scripture to you Hebrews chapter 1 verse 3 how and the same lip thing would apply and we can keep pulling out scriptures this is just an example and I don't want to keep going back and forth I think it's good to go back and forth because I'm learning I'm I'm finally grasp what she's saying but I'm also learning so that's good Hebrews chapter what hebrews chapter 1 verse 1 where it says one of my favorite scriptures God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake and in times past into the father's by the prophets passing these last days spoken unto us by his son whom he hath appointed heir of all things by whom also he made the world's who being the brightness of his glory and the Express image of his person yes and upholding all things by the word of his power when he had himself purged our sins sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high so we read Christ sat down on the right hand of the Father yes if they are the exact same person no no if they're the exact same being how can they sit beside each other so that's the thing well I think that's why I think that I think I think no it does make sense here's the big this is the reason why I make sense L too strong it's because we Christians have never taught that God the Father and the son are the same person so if they're if you just know I see here you believe they're not separate no no I believe no listen this is what I believe and I think it's good for you to kind of get a grasp of what I love what I believe because I believe that the early church taught us as well that there was one God the Bible teaches that it's one God but he exists in cold through three co-equal persons that the father is equally God that the son is equally God and that this the Holy Spirit is equal to God now from a humanistic standpoint this is not possible why is it not possible because who we are and what we are are wrapped up in the same person so you your soul cannot be separate from your person right it all makes up the person of elder strong but God is eternal he doesn't need time space or matter to exist he exists outside of time so because God exists outside of time because he's not bound by by time space and matter it is it is very logical because he is a spiritual being for him to be one God who exists in three co-equal persons we cannot exist that way it's not logical when it comes to us because why because our person meaning who we are and are and what we are our humanity cannot cannot cannot exist in two in two different places in the only reason why is because we are limited by time space and matter why because we are created God is not created right so this is the reason why when the father spoke in the beginning of in Genesis and he says let us make man in our own image he includes the he includes his son and he occludes the holy spirit because they're all equally God but we see that that all three members of the Trinity play a distinct role in the in the in the creation in the world we see that the father is the one who initiated the creation of the world we see that the son is the one who spoke all things into existence we see that the Holy Spirit is the one who hovered over the face of the deep why because there are three distinct persons planted three distinct roles but the father was able to say let us make man in our own image because they're all equally God yes so you said that they're not three dead not three separate God but they're three distinct persons so yes there are three distinct persons not three deceptive it's not three separate gods they there's three two they're three distinct gods making up one Godhead and we believe we believe no no you're saying gods though what I'm saying is I don't want to cut you off I just want you to understand what I'm saying I'm not saying that there are three separate gods I'm saying that there are three distinct persons existing in one God because if they were three separate gods isaiah 43:10 would be alive yeah i would you could you agree when when god says there was no god formed before me so neither neither Shelby gods after me I'm the first and the last besides me there is no God that's what isaiah 43:2 is and so how can happen jesus soul but before like because we can go back and forth like I said but what we see here is that there's two different interpretations right no no no no no there's there's two different interpretations we have the Trinity we have to go ahead right that those are two interpretations I think you're like truly I think it's there is one truth yeah one truth there's one truth so so on so it explained to me as isaiah 43:10 so explain to me in hebrews and then the same thing I'll explain to you in Hebrew this is one of my favorite passage okay so you explain Hebrews I'm sorry okay the same thing can be said for all of these different scriptures in John chapter 17 verse 3 we read when Christ gave the intercessory prayer right he says and this is life eternal that they may know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom that was said God can't send himself well yeah so here so you agree with that and you said earlier that they're distinct wait can I just inked in separate can I explain that you said them and I want to explain what I think that means so remember in Genesis right when I says that the father is the one who initiated the great creep I believe yeah so the father is the one who initiates why because we see that though they are what they are one God there are three separate persons who have three distinct roles so when you say that the father sent his son it the father sent the son is because he is the leader of the Trinity so the father is the son no no no father if there is the same yeah no no no no no let me explain the plaintiff or time no no no no I mean let me explain see what I mean so so so when it says and the one who are sent Jesus Christ right so the father is the leader of Jesus in role they're different in role the father is the leader of the Godhead which I believe is the Trinity one god who existed for three co-equal persons so the father had the authority to send Jesus into the world right and this is why the Jesus perfectly submitted to the will of the Father but just because they're different in role does not mean that they're different in nature let me explain what I mean by that right we've known wait we agree with you so just because they're different role doesn't mean they've bit of different nature we use 100% but let me let me explain deeper what I mean right because I think this is the reason why the Trinity is true right so what I mean is if you have a job if you work at Walmart right your boss is not it's not greater in essence than you but your boss is greater in role responsibility yes more responsibility before so so what I mean is with the Trinity the same thing applies with the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit so so we so so getting back to the scripture what you just read when it says and the one whom I sent Jesus Christ yet the father had the authority to send Jesus Christ into the world because he is the leader of the Trinity but it does not mean that they're not all equally one God and this is the reason why I go back to isaiah 43:10 that before me there was no god formed neither shall be gods after me I'm the first and less the Bible clearly says that there is only one God one God there's not there's not three gods so on this part I spent a large amount of time trying to break down and explain to him what the Trinity is because it's not that other religions like Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and Muslims merely disagree with what we think the Trinity is is that they don't understand our definition of the Trinity so a lot of times you find yourself in pointless conversations and important it's debates with somebody about the Trinity not because they merely disagree but they don't understand what the Trinity is themselves so he was sincerely confused because he thought that I was saying that the father god is the same person as the Sun God and Christians don't believe that we believe that there's one God who exists in three co-equal persons and this is the reason why we see all three members of the Trinity actively involved in creation and I think we as Christians had to do a good job of laying the groundwork down and explaining to other religions what the Trinity is before we move for I guess the Mormon faith kind of stemmed from Joseph Smith's prophecies in theology I mean it's safe to say that he's the founder right he's the one he was the first prophet of the church right so so from early on Joseph Smith said this he says that that we have imagined and supposed that God was a God of eternity I refute that I did and take the vales off of your eyes so that we can see so when he said that he refutes this idea that God is not the god of all of eternity that there was a God before him so is that essentially what he's saying he's saying if God if God was not the God of all of eternity he's essentially saying that that there was before before the God that reigns now there was a God before him so and what this is beautiful I don't know all the answers I don't know these questions I'm a 19 year old kid I get it I get it okay let me let me let me finish okay let me finish let me testify real quick of this I know by the power of the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true and now we can go back and we can go back to the Keene fallout sermon we can go into all these things that you've studied and I know you've studied a lot you've been awesome you have all these great questions I'm a 19 year old kid and I'm not supposed to ask me what I'm supposed to do as a missionary I'm not supposed to answer questions I'm supposed to create environments and climates for the Holy Ghost to testify of the truth with my soul I mean let me end I mean I mean let me not access the question let me let me tell you my heart this is my heart and now I really hope you believe me I don't want you to think that I'm here asking you questions because I'm trying to make you look bad or I'm trying to look more knowledgeably that's just not my heart that's just on my heart when when we have questions or when you first sit down you say that you care about the truth and as a Christian who loves God I care about the truth as well and and as a person who's also made in the image of God whether you believe it or not is I love you I love you and I love you like I'm not here trying to attack you at all but I think if we care about truth I think that when somebody asks these questions I think it's really good to wrestle with these questions because I think what happens is if you have like I said for elder strong a twentieth-century prophet who comes and says they we have we have meaning people humanity have imagined and supposed that God was the God of eternity right and he says I refute that idea and take the veils off of your eyes so that we may see we have to investigate this so when I ask you that if if if what the 20th century prophet says in a small town in Illinois at a funeral Rite goes against what I say it says in Isaiah 43 before me there was no God formed neither should there be gods after me I am the first and the last besides me there is no God that's a problem and so my heart for you guys it's not to not to attack you guys not to not to I want to look smarter than you guys that's not the goal of me sitting down talking with you it's really really not these questions are important and I think these questions are important because I care about you and I believe that you came out here because you care about people right and so if Joseph Smith the one who founded the Mormon Church is saying something different than what the prophets of old have said about God in the scriptures when he says I refute that idea that that the God who reigns now is not the God who's always reigned right like even Jesus says in Revelations 22 12 he says that I'm coming back soon bringing a recompense to repay all those for what they have done for I am the first and the last the beginning in the end that Hafsa into Omega so Jesus claims to be the God for all of eternity but then you have Joseph Smith like I said a 20th century property that says you know what we thought we've all thought that God was the god of all of eternity that's wrong he's not he's not the God of all of eternity like how do you reconcile that how do you reconcile somebody coming along and saying something different than what God has said about himself you really can't the last thing that you kind of saw was me it just expressing my heart to him because I think it's very important all to other religions to not just stay on a deep intellectual or theological argument but to show them that we care about them and to show them that we're not just merely arguing with them out of malicious intent but we're acting sincere questions and we're actually hard questions because we love them and we want to see them coming to the acknowledgement of truth so I believe that if anybody believes that what you're doing is out of love they will allow you to talk to them for three hours like I did like my grandma said people don't care what you know and say they know that you care so that's what I tried to do I tried to do a good job I letting him know that I care about him more than I care about knowledge hopefully you enjoyed this video hopefully was encouraging to you be on the lookout for part two coming real soon and be on the lookout for more videos on both TV where we live and love truth and remember always be bold peace

Channel: Apologetics with Preston Perry

Views: 275,196

Keywords: Preston Perry, mormons, christian, apologetics, Jackie hill Perry, James white, Joseph Smith, PIA tour, p4cm

Id: ukDMTMAkIHo

Length: 49min 5sec (2945 seconds)

Published: Tue May 14 2019