JOYCE: "THAT'S DAVE. HE'S NOT GONNA CHANGE. I LOVE HIM,
I'M STAYING MARRIED TO HIM." DAVE: ACTUALLY, I MARRIED
HER FOR THE FIRE, YOU KNOW. THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS
I MARRIED HER FOR. I LIKED THAT FIRE. JOYCE: WELL, IT WON'T GO OUT. DAVE: I KNOW THAT. [LAUGHING] DAVE: IF IT DOES,
I'D STOKE THE EMBERS. [MUSIC] GINGER: HI, EVERYONE! WELCOME TO JOYCE MEYER'S
TALK IT OUT PODCAST. THIS IS WHERE JOYCE TEACHES
THE WORD OF GOD IN HER PRACTICAL, NO-NONSENSE WAY
AND MY FRIENDS, AND I TALK ABOUT THE REAL STUFF OF LIVING IT,
AND HOLD NOTHING BACK. I'M GINGER STACHE,
WITH ERIN CLULEY, AND JAI, THREE FRIENDS, WHO UNDERSTAND
THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING HONEST, LOVING WOMEN AROUND YOU. AND WHEN WE NEED A LITTLE
EXTRA HELP, WE ASK MS. JOYCE, WHO'S HERE WITH US TODAY! JOYCE: I'M HERE TO HELP. GINGER: AND YOU ARE ALL
WITH US TODAY, AS FRIENDS, WHO ARE HERE TO TALK IT OUT. AND WE HAVE SOMETHING WE HAVE
NEVER HAD ON THE SHOW BEFORE, WE HAVE A MALE! WELCOME, DAVE MEYER! DAVE: I AM ON THE SPOT. [LAUGHING] ERIN: YES, YOU ARE. GINGER: IT'S SO FUN
TO HAVE YOU WITH US. WE'RE REALLY LOOKING
FORWARD TO THIS. I THINK IT'S GOING
TO HELP A LOT OF PEOPLE, GIVE SOME GREAT ADVICE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MARRIAGE. SO, MAWRRRIDGE... THIS IS WHAT'S STUCK IN MY MIND,
I DON'T KNOW WHY. BUT THERE ARE SO MANY ASPECTS
OF DIFFERENT PLACES. WE TALK ABOUT HOW WE'RE
IN DIFFERENT STAGES OF LIFE, AND EVERYONE LISTENING
IS IN A DIFFERENT PLACE IN THEIR OWN RELATIONSHIPS. SO, WE'RE GONNA DIG RIGHT
INTO YOUR RELATIONSHIP, AS WELL AS OURS,
AND EVERYBODY ELSE'S. SO, WHY DON'T WE START
BY YOU GUYS TELLING US HOW LONG YOU'VE BEEN
MARRIED AND JUST GIVE US A LITTLE BACKGROUND. JOYCE: WELL, WE'VE BEEN
MARRIED 54 LOOONG... [LAUGHING] JOYCE: WONDERFUL YEARS. AND I WOULD SAY MOST OF THEM,
HAVE BEEN PRETTY GREAT. THE EARLY YEARS WERE A LITTLE
TOUGH BECAUSE I HAD BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED BY MY DAD,
AND HAD ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS, BUT DIDN'T KNOW I DID. I THOUGHT EVERYBODY ELSE
HAD THE PROBLEMS, AND IF THEY WOULD JUST DO WHAT I WANTED
THEM TO, WE'D ALL BE FINE. AND SO, I WAS PRETTY ROUGH
ON DAVE THOSE FIRST FEW YEARS, BUT HE'S SO EASYGOING
THAT HE MANAGED IT BETTER THAN MOST PEOPLE WOULD. AND SO, WHAT WAS IT LIKE
FOR YOU, IN THOSE EARLY YEARS? DAVE: WELL, I HAVE
A SURVIVAL MENTALITY. AND SO, I MEAN, THE EARLY YEARS
WERE TOUGH BECAUSE YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY HAD YOU BEEN
ABUSED BY YOUR FATHER, BUT YOU'D BEEN ABANDONED
BY YOUR MOTHER, AND REJECTED BY YOUR FIRST HUSBAND. SO, YOU CAME IN LOADED FOR BEAR,
BECAUSE YOU HAD ALL THIS STUFF PENNED UP INSIDE OF YOU,
AND I WAS THE ONE WHO WAS GONNA GET IT RELEASED ON ME,
YOU KNOW. JOYCE: AND I TRULY, DIDN'T
KNOW I HAD A PROBLEM. I MEAN, I REALLY--
I JUST THOUGHT IF EVERYBODY WOULD JUST DO--"WHY DOESN'T
EVERYBODY DO WHAT I WANT 'EM TO?"
DAVE: I DIDN'T KNOW YOU HAD A PROBLEM EITHER. JOYCE: I KNOW. [LAUGHING] JOYCE: I REMEMBER,
DAVE AND I'D BEEN MARRIED JUST ABOUT THREE WEEKS, HE LOOKED
AT ME, ONE DAY, AND HE SAID, "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?" [LAUGHING] JOYCE: AND I WASN'T REAL SURE
THAT ANYTHING WAS WRONG WITH ME. BUT EVEN THEN,
WE LOOK BACK, WE TALK ABOUT IT, AND WE SOUND LIKE
IT WAS ALL TERRIBLE, BUT WE HAD FUN, EVEN THEN. GINGER: WELL, YOU GUYS
DEFINITELY HAVE A LOT OF FUN TODAY. I THINK THAT'S A GREAT
PLACE TO START. BECAUSE YOU GUYS,
YOU HAVE TO KNOW THIS. JOYCE WAS ALREADY HERE, WITH US,
AND THEN, DAVE WALKED IN, AND JOYCE, TELL THEM
WHAT YOU SAID. JOYCE: WELL, THE FIRST THING
I SAID WAS, "WHY DIDN'T YOU WEAR THE SHIRT THAT WE AGREED
THAT YOU WERE GONNA WEAR?" [LAUGHING] JOYCE: HE HAD ME GO IN HIS
CLOSET, AND APPROVE THE SHIRT THAT HE HAD OUT, AND THEN,
HE SHOWS UP IN SOMETHING ELSE. AND HE ASKED ME,
"CAN I WEAR A POLO SHIRT?" AND I SAID, "NO,
WEAR A DRESS SHIRT." [LAUGHING] JOYCE: AND HERE,
HE IS, IN A POLO SHIRT THAT SAYS, "BOSS," ON IT,
OF ALL THINGS. DAVE: AND... I SAID, "IT'S THE SHIRT
YOU APPROVED, NOT THE SHIRT I APPROVED."
AND I SAID, "THIS IS WHAT THE SHIRT SAYS."
JOYCE: WHY DID YOU ASK ME TO APPROVE IT? [LAUGHING] GINGER: WELL, YOU KNOW,
THIS IS REAL LIFE. THIS IS REAL LIFE;
THIS IS HOW IT GOES. JOYCE: SOMETHING THAT
I JUST KINDA FEEL LIKE I WANNA START WITH IS,
I KNOW THAT THERE'S ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE THAT,
YOU'RE ON THE VERGE OF DIVORCE, OR YOU'RE CONTEMPLATING
DIVORCE, OR YOU JUST FEEL LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN
MAKE IT WITH THIS PERSON THAT YOU'RE MARRIED TO,
BUT I JUST REALLY WANNA ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO TRY
TO MAKE THE ONE YOU'VE GOT WORK, BECAUSE THERE AREN'T
ANY PERFECT RELATIONSHIPS. AND IF YOU THROW ONE AWAY,
THINK YOU'RE GONNA GO GET ANOTHER ONE THAT'S GONNA
BE DIFFERENT, IT MAY HAVE, NOT THE SAME PROBLEMS
AS YOUR FIRST ONE, BUT THERE'S GOING TO BE PROBLEMS. WE ALWAYS SAY,
"THE GRASS IS NOT ALWAYS GREENER ON THE OTHER SIDE."
AND I JUST FELT LIKE I REALLY WANTED TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO,
YOU KNOW, REALIZE THAT WE HAVEN'T BEEN MARRIED 54 YEARS,
BECAUSE IT'S ALL BEEN EASY. WE MADE A COMMITMENT TO GOD,
AND HE'S BEEN IN THE MIDST OF OUR RELATIONSHIP. AND I'M SURE THAT THERE ARE MANY
TIMES THAT DAVE STUCK IT OUT BECAUSE OF HIS LOVE FOR GOD. AND, YOU KNOW, MANY TIMES
WHEN I DIDN'T GIVE UP, BECAUSE OF MY LOVE FOR GOD,
AND THAT'S IMPORTANT. THAT YOU REALLY MAKE A DECISION,
IF YOU'RE A CHRISTIAN, THAT YOU'RE GONNA DO WHAT
YOU BELIEVE, GOD WOULD HAVE YOU DO, NOT JUST WHAT
YOU FEEL LIKE DOING. GINGER: I THINK THAT'S
SO GREAT BECAUSE THERE'S SOMETHING IN WORKING,
THERE'S SOMETHING IN GOD DOING SOMETHING IN A RELATIONSHIP,
BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE. AND SO, WE WANT
TO TALK MORE ABOUT THAT, TO GIVE PEOPLE THE TIPS
AND THE FUEL THAT THEY NEED. AT THE SAME TIME, JOYCE,
YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH A DIVORCE. JOYCE: RIGHT. GINGER: SO, YOU ALSO KNOW
THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT. AND JAI'S SITTING HERE,
GOING THROUGH A VERY DIFFICULT TIME IN HER LIFE, WHERE THINGS
ARE NOT ALWAYS THE WAY THAT YOU WANT IT TO BE, I GUESS,
IS THE RIGHT THING TO SAY. JOYCE: WELL, I MARRIED
THE FIRST GUY THAT PAID ANY ATTENTION TO ME BECAUSE
I THOUGHT NOBODY WOULD EVER REALLY WANT ME BECAUSE
OF WHAT MY DAD HAD DONE TO ME. AND SO, I GOT MARRIED WHEN
I WAS 18, AND I MARRIED A GUY THAT WAS 19. AND I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE
OF US HAD MORE PROBLEMS. YOU KNOW, AND A LOT OF TIMES,
I SAY, "DESPERATE PEOPLE, DO DESPERATE, DUMB THINGS."
AND MANY TIMES, YOU JUST GRAB AT ANYTHING FOR FEAR
OF HAVING NOTHING. AND IT'S REALLY--IT'S REALLY
NOT EVEN FAIR TO SAY THAT WE HAD A FIVE-YEAR MARRIAGE,
BECAUSE WE WERE SEPARATED THOSE FIVE YEARS MORE
THAN WE WERE TOGETHER. AND ON TWO DIFFERENT OCCASIONS,
HE ABANDONED ME IN OTHER STATES. AND I MEAN, JUST LEFT ONE DAY
TO GO TO WORK AND NEVER CAME BACK. AND SO, ON TOP OF THE REJECTION,
I'D ALREADY EXPERIENCED, MORE REJECTION WASN'T
REALLY WHAT I NEEDED. BUT I GOT IT, AND SO,
WE WERE MARRIED FIVE YEARS. HE RAN AROUND WITH OTHER WOMEN. HE WAS A PETTY CROOK. HE WROTE BAD CHECKS
ALL THE TIME, AND ENDED UP-- SHORTLY AFTER OUR DIVORCE,
HE ENDED UP GOING TO PRISON. DAVE: YOU KNOW,
WHEN WE GOT MARRIED, BECAUSE OF THE HURT
THAT JOYCE EXPERIENCED, SHE CAME IN WITH
A CONTROLLING SPIRIT. IN OTHER WORDS,
SHE WANTED TO CONTROL THE SITUATIONS BECAUSE
SHE KNEW IF SHE CONTROLLED-- OR FELT IF SHE CONTROLLED
THE SITUATIONS THAT SHE WOULDN'T GET HURT AGAIN. AND THAT--I THINK THAT HAPPENS
IN A LOT OF MARRIAGES. I THINK, WHAT HAPPENS IS,
IS A LOT OF--A LOT OF-- WHETHER IT'S A MAN OR WOMAN
COMES INTO A SITUATION WHERE THEY'VE BEEN--INTO A MARRIAGE
WHERE THEY'VE BEEN HURT IN SOME WAY, ABUSED IN SOME WAY,
THEN THEY COME IN WITH THAT CONTROLLING SPIRIT. AND A LOT OF TIMES,
WHAT YOU HAVE ON THE OTHER SIDE, IS A PERSON THAT ALLOWS
THEMSELVES TO BE CONTROLLED. AND WHEN YOU HAVE A CONTROLLING
SPIRIT AND A PERSON THAT ALLOWS THEM SELF TO BE CONTROLLED,
YOU HAVE A SITUATION THAT HAS TO END UP IN A DISASTER. YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO WAY TO--
NO WAY AROUND IT. UNLESS THAT PERSON REALIZES
OR LEARNS THAT THEY CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. THEY DON'T HAVE TO STAY
IN THAT SITUATION. BUT THEY HAVE TO BE--
THEY HAVE TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE IN THAT AREA. THAT'S WHY THE WORD OF GOD
IS SO IMPORTANT. BECAUSE THE WORD OF GOD REVEALS
YOUR POSITION IN A MARRIAGE. AND YOU CAN'T SUCCUMB
TO A PERSON CONTROLLING YOU, BECAUSE IF YOU DO,
YOU'RE ACTUALLY HURTING YOURSELF AND THAT PERSON. JOYCE: TIMING IS VERY
IMPORTANT IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT. AND DAVE WAS VERY
LONG-SUFFERING AND PATIENT WITH ME FOR A LONG TIME. AND THEN, HE FINALLY,
DID START CONFRONTING ME. AND OH, MAN, IT WAS LIKE
A NIGHTMARE WHEN HE DID 'CUZ I JUST BLEW UP. BUT PROBABLY, IF HE WOULD HAVE
DONE IT ANY SOONER THAN HE DID, I WOULD HAVE PROBABLY JUST LEFT. I JUST WANT TO ENCOURAGE
PEOPLE THAT IT'S-- YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE
IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE BEING CONTROLLED OR YOU LET
SOMEBODY CONTROL YOU, AND YOU FEEL LIKE YOU
NEED TO CONFRONT 'EM, YOU NEED TO MAKE
SURE THAT YOU PRAY, AND MAKE SURE YOU HAVE
THE TIME RIGHT, AND NOT JUST DO IT ON YOUR OWN TIMETABLE. ERIN: YOU KNOW, HOW'D YOU
KNOW IT WAS THE RIGHT TIME TO SAY SOMETHING? DAVE: ACTUALLY,
THE HOLY SPIRIT. AND I--YOU KNOW, I WOULD PRAY--
IN SITUATIONS, I'D GO OFF AND PRAY. BUT WHEN I PRAY, I WOULDN'T
JUST PRAY THAT I SAW SOMETHING THAT I THOUGHT
WAS WRONG IN JOYCE OR SHE WAS DOING IT AND SHE
SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DOING. I WOULD PRAY ALSO THAT GOD WOULD
SHOW ME, IF THAT'S--IF I'M NOT SEEING THIS THING RIGHT
AND REVEAL TO ME, THE TRUTH. YOU KNOW, IF I'M--SO THAT
I CAN CHANGE. AND I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE
OPEN-MINDED, WHEN YOU PRAY. YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT OPEN MIND
BECAUSE IF YOU PRAY--IF YOU GO IN WITH A JUDGMENTAL
ATTITUDE, PRAYING, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A SITUATION WHERE GOD
CAN'T REALLY DO ANYTHING, BECAUSE YOU'RE REALLY
HINDERING HIM FROM DOING IT. YOU'RE JUDGING WHOLE SITUATION,
INSTEAD OF LETTING GOD JUDGE IT. AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S--
AND ALSO, WHEN I CONFRONTED HER--
WHEN THE HOLY SPIRIT TOLD ME, "NOW, IT'S TIME. NOW, SHE'S READY. CONFRONT HER."
AND WHEN I DID, IF I'D HAVE CONFRONTED HER BEFORE THAT,
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN--I WOULD HAVE FELT BAD. BUT WHEN I DID,
I FELT TOTAL PEACE. I'VE FELT PEACE ABOUT
CONFRONTING HER. JOYCE: I DIDN'T, BUT HE DID. [LAUGHING] DAVE: SHE WAS LIKE A BULL
IN A CHINA CLOSET. JOYCE: OH, I WAS SO MAD. DAVE: OH, YEAH,
SHE WAS VERY MAD. BUT IT'S LIKE, I FELT THIS
PEACE AND IT WAS LIKE, "LET HER BE MAD. LET HER BE MAD. SHE'LL GET THROUGH IT. AND WHEN SHE DOES,
SHE'LL GET SET FREE." GINGER: BUT THAT WASN'T--
THAT DIDN'T COME AUTOMATICALLY FOR YOU. I KNOW, YOU'VE SAID THAT
YOU WERE AT A POINT WHERE YOU WERE JUST IN TEARS
AND DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. DAVE: OH, YEAH. THAT CAME OVER A PERIOD
OF TIME BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO, YOU KNOW,
DEAL WITH THE SITUATION, AND LEARNING WHAT TO DO,
AND HOW TO APPLY THE WORD OF GOD. AND AS I DID--AS I APPLIED
THE WORD OF GOD, LEARNED WHAT TO DO,
AND APPLIED THE WORD OF GOD, THAT THEN, YOU KNOW,
GOD BEGAN TO GIVE ME, YOU KNOW, UNDERSTANDING AND CLARITY
IN THE WHOLE SITUATION. GINGER: YEAH. DAVE: AND GETTING THAT,
AND THEN, THE HOLY SPIRIT SAID, "NOW, IT'S TIME."
AND AT THAT TIME, IT WAS-- JAI: I WANTED TO JUMP
IN AND SAY THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING SO HONEST,
AND TRANSPARENT ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP. AND I REALLY ENCOURAGE
ALL THE WOMEN THAT ARE WATCHING THIS,
POSSIBLY HAVE YOUR HUSBAND'S WATCH THIS EPISODE, BECAUSE HAD
MORE PEOPLE DONE THIS, I DON'T--I THINK THERE COULD
HAVE BEEN POTENTIAL FOR WHAT HAPPENED IN MY MARRIAGE,
NOT TO HAVE HAPPENED. IF MORE, LEADERS IN THE FAITH,
WOULD BE HONEST ABOUT THE TRIALS OF MARRIAGE. BUT ALSO, UNDERSTANDING LIKE,
THE LEADING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. WE SAY IT ALL THE TIME,
BUT WHEN IT ACTUALLY COMES TIME TO PRACTICE IT,
IT'S A LITTLE CHALLENGING. SO, A LOT OF TIMES--I BELIEVE,
WITH MY EX-HUSBAND, LIKE, I CAME IN WITH A LOT OF BAGGAGE,
AS WELL, FROM MY MARRIAGE. WHICH WAS ONE OF THE REASONS
WHY, AT THE END, AFTER I FOUND OUT ABOUT THE AFFAIR,
AFTER I FOUND OUT ABOUT EVERYTHING, I WAS REALLY
JUST AT A PLACE WHERE I WAS LIKE, I'M WILLING TO TRY
TO MAKE IT WORK. I WANTED TO TRY TO MAKE
MY RELATIONSHIP WORK, BUT HE WAS SO CHECKED OUT
BY THIS TIME, AND DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF MALES IN HIS LIFE
SPEAKING THAT TRUTH OF LEADING, AND ASKING GOD FOR WISDOM
ON HOW TO HELP SOMEONE THAT HAD BEEN SO DAMAGED. SO, I DO WANT TO THANK YOU
GUYS FOR SHARING THE HONESTY OF THE TRIALS OF MARRIAGE. AND ALSO, JUST ENCOURAGING
THOSE THAT ARE WATCHING, LIKE, MAYBE, ASK YOUR SPOUSE
TO WATCH THIS, BECAUSE THIS IS VERY, VERY HELPFUL. IT'S A LITTLE LATE FOR ME,
BUT IT'S HELPFUL. DAVE: I THINK,
MOST OF THE TIME, IT'S A LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT
TO DO IN GIVEN SITUATIONS, YOU KNOW. BUT THEN, WHEN YOU GET
THE KNOWLEDGE, THEN YOU HAVE TO APPLY THAT KNOWLEDGE. AND SO, THERE'S TWO THINGS. THERE'S TWO THINGS
THAT HAVE TO HAPPEN. FIRST, GAINING KNOWLEDGE,
THEN APPLYING THE KNOWLEDGE. AND IF YOU DON'T APPLY
THE KNOWLEDGE YOU GAINED, AND DON'T APPLY THE KNOWLEDGE,
THEN, YOU KNOW, THE SITUATION CAN'T CHANGE. JOYCE: USUALLY,
PEOPLE JUST GET ANGRY, AND THEY DON'T REALLY
DEAL WITH IT ON ANY KIND OF A SPIRITUAL LEVEL. AND ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT DAVE DID--AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING VERY
IMPORTANT FOR OUR VIEWING AUDIENCE TO HEAR TODAY, WAS
DAVE DECIDED THAT HE COULDN'T DO ANYTHING TO MAKE ME HAPPY. BUT HE DECIDED HE WAS GOING
TO BE HAPPY AND ENJOY HIS LIFE ANYWAY. AND I THINK, SO MANY PEOPLE,
YOU LET YOUR JOY BE DEPENDENT ON WHAT THE OTHER
PERSON IS DOING. AND ACTUALLY, INITIALLY,
IT ANGERED ME THAT I WAS SO UNHAPPY, AND HE WAS SO HAPPY. HE DIDN'T SEEM TO CARE. GINGER: YEAH. THIS ISN'T RIGHT. JOYCE: OVER A LONG
PERIOD OF TIME, IT BECAME A REALLY GREAT WITNESS
TO ME THAT HE WAS SO STABLE, AND IT MADE ME HUNGRY
FOR THE JOY THAT HE HAD. AND KINDA SHOWED ME THAT,
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN HAVE JOY, EVEN IF THE OTHER PERSON'S
NOT DOING EVERYTHING YOU WANT 'EM TO. AND I JUST THINK THAT'S
REALLY IMPORTANT. IF YOU'RE IN A MARRIAGE THAT
IS CHALLENGING OR DIFFICULT, DON'T LET THE OTHER PERSON
MAKE YOU UNHAPPY ALL THE TIME. DO WHAT YOU CAN TO MAKE
THEM HAPPY, BUT IF THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE HAPPY--
I REMEMBER, DAVE SAID TO ME, HE SAID, "I'VE TRIED EVERYTHING
I KNOW, AND YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY, NOT GONNA BE HAPPY,
SO I'M NOT GONNA TRY ANYMORE. YOU CAN BE UNHAPPY
IF YOU WANT TO, BUT I'M GONNA ENJOY MY LIFE AND BE HAPPY."
DAVE: I TOLD HER THAT, "I'LL LOVE YOU AND SHOW LOVE
TO YOU, BUT IT'S YOUR CHOICE TO RECEIVE THAT LOVE."
GINGER: IT HAD TO BE HARD SOMETIMES,
TO KEEP LOVING WHEN-- DAVE: OH, IT WAS HARD. THERE WERE TIMES WHEN SHE WOULD
STAY MAD AT ME AND WOULDN'T SAY A WORD TO ME FOR WEEKS. ONE TIME, THREE WEEKS;
WOULDN'T SAY A WORD. GINGER: YOU LITTLE SPITFIRE. DAVE: OH, SHE WAS A SPITFIRE. ERIN: DETERMINED. DAVE: SHE'S A SPITFIRE,
BUT, OF COURSE, THAT'S WHY I MARRIED HER. THAT SPITFIRE, I LIKE THAT,
YOU KNOW, SPITFIRE IN HER-- JOYCE: HE LIKES A CHALLENGE,
AND HE GOT ONE. [LAUGHING] DAVE: YOU KNOW, AT THAT TIME,
WAS WHEN I REALLY LEARNED-- THE HOLY SPIRIT SHOWED ME,
YOU KNOW, "YOU CAN ENJOY YOUR LIFE. JUST GO ON AND ENJOY YOUR LIFE."
AND LIKE, SHE WAS SAYING, IT MADE HER REAL MAD,
REAL MAD BUT-- JOYCE: BOY, WAS I MAD. DAVE: IT DIDN'T BOTHER
ME AT ALL. YOU KNOW, USUALLY,
SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD AFFECT A PERSON AND CAUSE THEM
TO CHANGE WHAT THEY'RE DOING, BUT I HAD SUCH A PEACE ABOUT IT,
THAT I WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING. JOYCE: AND IT BOTHERED ME,
THAT IT DIDN'T BOTHER HIM. GINGER: SO, DID YOU THINK,
THROUGH THIS, YOU KNOW, "I NEED TO GET OUT OF HERE"? "THIS ISN'T WORKING FOR ME."
OR DID YOU WANT WHAT HE HAD, AND THAT KEPT YOU THERE? JOYCE: NO, I NEVER REALLY
THOUGHT ABOUT LEAVING DAVE. I DON'T KNOW WHY,
BECAUSE THINGS WERE SUCH A MESS. BUT, I GUESS, YOU KNOW,
DEEP DOWN INSIDE, I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT. BUT I HADN'T COME FAR
ENOUGH IN MY WALK WITH GOD, TO WHERE I REALLY WAS READY
TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, UNTIL ONE DAY--
AND I STILL REMEMBER EXACTLY WHERE WE WERE AT, IN THE HOUSE. HE WAS GETTING SOMETHING
OUT OF HIS CLOSET, AND I WAS BEING A SMART ALECK,
LIKE I USUALLY WAS, AND GIVING HIM TROUBLE. AND HE SAID--HE JUST LOOKED
AT ME, AND HE SAID, "YOU KNOW WHAT?"
HE SAID, "IF I DEPENDED ON YOU TO MAKE ME FEEL LIKE A MAN,
I WOULD BE IN BIG TROUBLE." AND HE SAID, "I JUST WANNA
TELL YOU THAT I'M NOT REAL SURE HOW LONG I CAN PUT UP
WITH THIS, BUT I DON'T THINK I CAN PUT UP WITH IT FOREVER."
AND THAT ACTUALLY, REALLY PUT THE FEAR OF GOD IN ME,
BECAUSE I KNEW FROM MY EXPERIENCE WITH DAVE
THAT HE WASN'T THE TYPE TO JUST MAKE IDLE THREATS. I KNEW THAT IF HE SAID
SOMETHING THAT HE MEANT IT. AND SO, I REALLY STARTED
TRYING TO BEHAVE BETTER. AND I REMEMBER, AFTER ABOUT
A YEAR, I SAID TO HIM, "WELL, YOU KNOW, AM I--
I'M DOING BETTER, AREN'T I? I'M DOING A LOT BETTER."
AND HE SAID, "YEAH, SOME." [LAUGHING] JOYCE: AND I THOUGHT, "WOW."
BUT YOU KNOW, THE OTHER THING THAT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE TELL PEOPLE TODAY IS THAT ONE OF THE BIGGEST
MISTAKES THAT PEOPLE MAKE IN MARRIAGES IS THEY START
TRYING TO CHANGE EACH OTHER. DAVE: EXACTLY. JOYCE: YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT
THE OTHER PERSON IS DOING, SO YOU TRY TO CHANGE THEM,
YOU TRY TO MAKE THEM BE DIFFERENT, AND--
WHY DON'T YOU SPEAK TO THAT? DAVE: THE BEST MARRIAGE IS--
IS WHEN A HUSBAND ALLOWS THE WIFE TO BE HERSELF
AND WHEN A WIFE ALLOWS THE HUSBAND TO BE THEMSELVES. THAT'S THE WAY WE ARE, NOW. I MEAN, WE ALLOW EACH OTHER
TO BE OURSELVES, YOU KNOW. JOYCE: AND WE'RE
BOTH IMPERFECT. DAVE: YEAH, AND THAT DOESN'T
MEAN WE DON'T DO THINGS WRONG OR EVEN--
WELL, WE ACTUALLY, HAVEN'T HAD WORDS FOR A LONG, LONG TIME. ERIN: JUST ABOUT THE SHIRT. [LAUGHING] DAVE: A LOT OF PEOPLE
CALL 'EM ARGUMENTS. I CALL THEM HEATED DISCUSSIONS. YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T HAD
THAT FOR A LONG, LONG TIME, BUT IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE
TO GIVE EACH OTHER THE FREEDOM TO BE OURSELVES. YOU KNOW, AND REALLY,
THAT'S WHAT-- THAT'S REALLY,
HOW THE TWO BECOME ONE FLESH BECAUSE THEY'RE--
JOYCE: YOU KNOW, YOU ACCEPT THE PERSON'S FLAWS. AND YOU ALMOST--
LIKE, THINGS THAT-- THINGS THAT USED TO MAKE
ME SO MAD THAT DAVE WOULD DO, NOW, THEY'RE ALMOST FUNNY. THEY'RE ALMOST HUMOROUS TO ME. GINGER: "ALMOST," YOU SAID. JOYCE: ALMOST. DAVE: WHEN I'D PLAY GOLF,
SHE USED TO FIGHT ME. SHE'D USED TO SAY,
"YOU CAN'T PLAY GOLF. YOU CAN'T PLAY GOLF."
AND I SAID, "WELL, I'M GONNA PLAY GOLF." [LAUGHING] ERIN: WELL, I'D BE MAD, TOO. DAVE: SO, OVER A LONG
PERIOD OF TIME-- NOW, SHE'S GOT TO THE POINT--
OVER ALL THOSE YEARS, NOW, SHE'S GOT TO THE POINT
WHERE SHE'S, "WHY DON'T YOU GO PLAY GOLF?"
JOYCE: YEAH, "WHY DON'T YOU GO PLAY GOLF, GO." [LAUGHING] ERIN: SO, HOW DO YOU
DETERMINE LIKE, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE
IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO HAVE A HEATED CONVERSATION ABOUT? AND WHAT ARE THE THINGS
THAT YOU JUST LET GO, AND GIVE THEM JUST
THE ROOM TO BE THEMSELVES? JOYCE: WELL, OBVIOUSLY,
IF WHAT SOMEBODY'S DOING THIS SINFUL, YOU KNOW,
YOU WOULD NEED TO CONFRONT THAT. BUT MOST OF THE THINGS THAT
PEOPLE END UP GETTING A DIVORCE OVER, REALLY--
NOT IN ALL SITUATIONS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ADULTERY, AND THINGS
LIKE THAT, OR DRUGS, OR ALCOHOL ABUSE, BUT MOST--
I WOULD SAY THE MAJORITY OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE GET
DIVORCES FOR ARE JUST INCOMPATIBILITY. WELL, WHO IS COMPATIBLE? I MEAN, REALLY, NOBODY IS,
UNLESS YOU DECIDE TO BE, ON PURPOSE. AND SO, YOU HAVE TO KINDA
LEARN TO PICK YOUR BATTLES. AND LIKE, DAVE KNOWS
MY PERSONALITY. IT'S A LITTLE BIT, I GUESS,
SASSY WOULD BE A GOOD WORD FOR IT. DAVE: I WROTE A GOOD POEM
FOR IT ON THAT ONE TIME. [LAUGHING] JOYCE: I'VE USUALLY,
GOT SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT EVERYTHING. DAVE: I CALL HER
MY "SASSY LASSY." JAI: SASSY LASSY. [LAUGHING] JOYCE: IT REALLY
MEANS A LOT TO ME, THAT HE LETS ME BE MYSELF. I DON'T FEEL PRESSURED
TO BE SOMEBODY ELSE. AND, YOU KNOW, DAVE LOVES
SPORTS AND I DON'T REALLY CARE ANYTHING ABOUT ANY OF 'EM. AND, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A BIG
THING FOR A LONG TIME. YOU JUST--YOU CAN'T MAKE
SOMEBODY, NOT LIKE SOMETHING, IF THEY LIKE IT. AND YOU CAN'T--
LIKE, HE'S GOT A LITTLE MORE OF A LAID-BACK PERSONALITY,
AND I'M MORE AGGRESSIVE. AND YOU KNOW,
I ALWAYS TRIED TO MAKE HIM BE MORE AGGRESSIVE. AND HE FINALLY TOLD ME, ONE DAY,
HE SAID, "YOU BETTER THANK GOD, I AM THE WAY I AM,
OR YOU WOULDN'T BE DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING."
AND SO, REALLY, SO OFTEN, GOD GIVES US THE PERFECT PERSON. BUT WE STAY SO BUSY TRYING
TO MAKE THEM BE WHAT WE THINK THEY SHOULD BE,
THAT YOU NEVER REALIZE THAT GOD'S GIVEN YOU WHAT YOU'D NEED. DAVE: WELL, ACTUALLY,
WHAT HAPPENS IS A-- MOST OF THE TIME, IN MARRIAGES,
YOU'RE OPPOSITES, YOU KNOW. GINGER: YEAH,
TELL ME ABOUT IT. [LAUGHING] DAVE: AND SO, WHAT HAPPENS
IS YOU TRY AND MAKE THE PERSON BE THE WAY YOU
ARE AND YOU ACTUALLY, MARRIED 'EM BECAUSE THEY HAVE
ATTRIBUTES THAT YOU DON'T HAVE. AND SO, YOU'RE TRYING
TO MAKE 'EM BE LIKE YOU, AND REALLY--IT'S REALLY
NOT WHAT YOU WANT. JOYCE: NO. ERIN: BUT DAVE,
I KNOW THE RIGHT WAY. [LAUGHING] ERIN: I'M RIGHT. [LAUGHING] JAI: I'VE SEEN SO MANY
PEOPLE, THESE DAYS GET, LIKE, DIVORCED OVER SUCH
LITTLE THINGS. LIKE, EVEN IF YOU WOULD OF--
LIKE, A YOUNGER COUPLE, THAT--OR A NEWER COUPLE LIKE,
WOULD HAVE STILL BEEN UPSET ABOUT THE POLO SHIRT THING. LIKE, I MEAN, YA'LL JUST SITTING
HERE ACTING LIKE-- I'M LIKE, "YOU'RE NOT MAD
ABOUT THAT?" "YOU'RE NOT MAD ABOUT--" [LAUGHING] JAI: YOU KNOW, BUT PEOPLE
THESE DAYS ARE LITERALLY-- I HAD A CONVERSATION
WITH SOMEONE THE OTHER DAY, I'M LIKE, "SERIOUSLY, THAT'S WHY
YOU'RE GETTING A DIVORCE?" LIKE, EVERYBODY'S JUST SO QUICK
TO LET THINGS GO AND HOLD ON TO THE MOST PETTY ARGUMENTS. AND LIKE, I LOVE THAT,
TO SEE HOW YOU ALL JUST KIND OF LIKE--IT WAS A MOMENT. YOU STILL WERE
A LITTLE UPSET ABOUT IT. YOU'RE LIKE, "I PICKED
THE SHIRT OUT," BUT THEN, YOU'RE LIKE, NOW, YOU ALL
ARE LAUGHING ABOUT--YOU KNOW. DAVE: WE JOKE ABOUT THINGS,
MISTAKES, YOU KNOW. JOYCE: IT DIDN'T REALLY MAKE
ME MAD 'CUZ I KNOW HOW HE IS. JAI: BUT I LOVE THAT. I LOVE THAT, THOUGH. THE YOUNGER--COUPLES NOW--
GINGER: BUT YOU HAVE TO LEARN THAT. IT TAKES TIME. TIM AND I ARE VERY DIFFERENT. I MEAN, WE ARE OPPOSITES. AND I AM VERY HARD TO LIVE WITH. I MEAN, I--
[LAUGHS] I'M JUST HEADSTRONG,
FIERCELY INDEPENDENT. AND SO, IN THE BEGINNING,
WE HAD A LOT TO LEARN THROUGH THAT. I HAD A LOT TO LEARN. AND WE HAD A LOT
TO FIGURE OUT TOGETHER. BUT YOU DO TEND TO,
NOT ONLY COME TOGETHER, BUT YOU LEARN HOW TO DO THINGS
DIFFERENTLY, FOR ONE ANOTHER, WITHOUT CHANGING WHO YOU ARE. SO, I WAS LAUGHING YESTERDAY,
WHEN WE WERE AT A DRUGSTORE AND WE WERE WAITING
IN LINE FOR THE PHARMACY. AND THE LINE WAS LONG,
SO, OF COURSE, I DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF PATIENCE FOR THAT,
AND I WAS GETTING BORED. AND SO, I HAD OF A BOTTLE
OF VITAMINS IN MY HAND, AND THEY WERE PLAYING MUSAK,
OVER THE SPEAKERS. AND SO, I STARTED SHAKING
THE BOTTLE WITH THE MUSIC, AND KIND OF DANCING AROUND. AND TIM, WHEN WE FIRST
GOT MARRIED, WOULD BE LIKE, "STOP IT!"
'CUZ HE'D BE SO EMBARRASSED. 'CUZ BASICALLY, I'VE EMBARRASSED
HIM FOR 36 YEARS NOW. SO, HE--BUT THIS TIME, HE JUST
LOOKS AT ME, AND HE JUST KNOWS IT'S GONNA HAPPEN. SO, THEN, WE'RE WALKING
THROUGH THE AISLES MORE AND I THOUGHT HE WAS PUSHING ME,
AND I SAID, "DO YOU WANT ME TO TURN? WHY ARE YOU PUSHING ME?"
AND HE SAID, "I WAS TRYING TO HOLD YOUR HAND."
JAI: OH! [LAUGHING] GINGER: AND I SAID, "IT FELT
LIKE YOU WERE SHOVING ME." AND HE GOES, "OH, YEAH,
BECAUSE THAT WORKS SO WELL ON YOU." [LAUGHING] GINGER: SO, ANYWAY,
WE STILL HAVE A LOT TO LEARN. BUT I'M SO INTERESTED,
JAI, IN WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER, 'CUZ YOU SAID SOMETHING
ABOUT YOUR OWN SITUATION, AND THAT "IT'S TOO LATE FOR ME."
BUT THANK YOU FOR SHARING WHAT YOU'RE SHARING. AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT BECAUSE I WANT TO THINK ABOUT
ALL OF THE PEOPLE, ALL OF OUR FRIENDS WHO ARE
WATCHING RIGHT NOW, THE DIFFERENT SITUATIONS
THAT WE'RE ALL IN. AND I THINK OF YOU AND MIKE TOO,
AND WHAT YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH RECENTLY,
AND JUST DIFFERENT THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THEIR LIVES. AND FOR YOU, DOES--
IS IT IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO SEE A HOPE FOR LOVE IN THE FUTURE,
YOU KNOW? TO LEARN, LIKE WE ALL NEED
TO LEARN, "OK, WHAT ARE MY POSSIBILITIES? WHAT CAN GOD DO?"
JAI: OH, A HUNDRED PERCENT. LIKE, IT'S DEFINITELY--I THINK,
THAT'S WHY I ALWAYS AM GRATEFUL FOR THE WAY THAT YOU SHARE
YOUR ENTIRE STORY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT HELPS YOU FEEL LIKE,
"OKAY, THERE'S LIGHT AT THE OTHER END OF THE TUNNEL."
'CUZ, HONESTLY, I'M JUST SAYING, 'CUZ MY DIVORCE WASN'T FINAL
UNTIL LIKE, A FEW MONTHS AGO. LIKE, I'VE BEEN GOING
THROUGH THIS FOR A WHILE, BUT MY DIVORCE WASN'T FINAL
UNTIL A FEW MONTHS AGO. AND HONESTLY, I WAS AT A PLACE
WHERE I'M LIKE, I DON'T... I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN
TRUST ANYONE AGAIN. YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN
GET TO THE POINT WHERE-- AND THEN, I'M LIKE, DO I--
BECAUSE EVERYBODY WANTS YOU TO JUST MOVE ON. CHRISTIANS, YOU KNOW,
LIKE, WANT YOU TO, "JUST MOVE FORWARD."
I AM MOVING FORWARD, BUT I STILL HAVE MOMENTS. I STILL HAVE HEALING
THAT I'M GOING THROUGH. BUT TO HEAR THAT YOU STILL,
EVEN IN YOUR MARRIAGE, LIKE YOU--GOD GAVE YOU
SOMEONE THAT CAN-- THAT COULD DEAL WITH,
WHERE YOU ARE. 'CUZ, I JUST SHARED RECENTLY,
SOME POSITIONS OF WHERE I WAS IN MY--
I WENT TO MY FIRST WEDDING AFTER BEING DIVORCED. AND THAT WAS THE MOST DIFFICULT
ENVIRONMENT TO BE IN--TO BE. AND IT LIKE--IT WAS PEOPLE
THAT I LOVED, IT WAS PEOPLE THAT I WAS HAPPY FOR,
THAT ACTUALLY, BEFORE I EVEN FOUND OUT ABOUT THE DIVORCE,
I WAS LIKE COUNSELING, LIKE HELPING THEM, YOU KNOW. 'CUZ THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN
DOING FOR YEARS, YOU KNOW. BUT THEN, TO FEEL LIKE,
"OH, MY GOSH. EVERYTHING THAT
I'VE EVER TOLD THEM--" LIKE, "I'M NOT EVEN WORTHY OF--
I CAN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS ANYMORE."
AND SO, TO HEAR YOU BEING ABLE TO KNOW THAT YOU'VE GONE
THROUGH THAT AND STILL BE ABLE TO--GOD RESTORE
YOUR HEART, AND HAVE SOMEONE THAT COMES INTO YOUR LIFE TO--
THAT CAN HELP YOU HEAL THROUGH THAT, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT. JOYCE: WELL, I JUST REALLY--
I REALLY WANT TO CONVEY THE MESSAGE TO PEOPLE TO STOP
LOOKING FOR REASONS TO GET A DIVORCE, AND START LOOKING
FOR REASONS TO STAY TOGETHER. YOU KNOW, DON'T--
THINK ABOUT THE GOOD THINGS AND NOT JUST THE BAD THINGS. I ACTUALLY, REMEMBER, ONE TIME,
GOD PUT THIS ON MY HEART. I WAS MAD AT DAVE ABOUT
SOMETHING AND-- DAVE: OH, YOU'RE KIDDING. [LAUGHING] JOYCE: YOU NEVER KNEW THAT,
DID YOU? ERIN: SHE HID IT SO WELL. JOYCE: I TOOK OUT A PIECE
OF PAPER AND I MADE A LIST OF EVERYTHING THAT I DIDN'T
LIKE ABOUT DAVE. AND THEN, I MADE A LIST
OF EVERYTHING THAT I DID LIKE ABOUT HIM. YOU KNOW, THE AMAZING THING WAS,
WAS THE LIST OF THINGS I LIKED WAS SO MUCH LONGER
THAN THE LIST OF THINGS THAT I DIDN'T LIKE. BUT WE TEND TO FOCUS
ON THE FEW THINGS THAT WE DON'T LIKE--
GINGER: DID THAT SURPRISE YOU, WHEN YOU SAW THE LIST? JOYCE: YEAH, IT DID. IT DID, IT DID. BECAUSE YOU--I HAD ONLY
FOCUSED ON, "WELL, HE'S NOT THIS, AND HE'S NOT THIS," OR,
"HE IS THIS, AND HE IS THAT." AND I THINK THAT'S ONE
OF THE REASONS WHY WE ARE STILL MARRIED
IS BECAUSE DAVE IS ALWAYS BEEN A REAL POSITIVE PERSON. AND HE IS EASYGOING, YOU KNOW,
HE'S NOT QUICK TO GET ANGRY. AND I THINK THAT HE LOOKED
AT THE GOOD PARTS MORE THAN HE LOOKED AT THE BAD PARTS. AND I DON'T KNOW OF ANYBODY
THAT COULD STAY MARRIED, IF ALL YOU DO IS LOOK AT WHAT'S
WRONG WITH THE OTHER PERSON, ALL THE TIME. BECAUSE WHAT YOU FOCUS
ON BECOMES MAGNIFIED, IT BECOMES BIGGER THAN
WHAT IT REALLY, ACTUALLY, IS IN YOUR LIFE. DAVE: YOU KNOW,
YOU CAN--IN ANY RELATIONSHIP, IT'S NOT GONNA BE PERFECT. DOESN'T MATTER WHAT
RELATIONSHIP IT IS, IT'S NOT GONNA BE PERFECT. AND IT'S AMAZING HOW
PEOPLE COME INTO MARRIAGE AND THINK IT'S GOING
TO BE A PERFECT RELATIONSHIP. GINGER: HALLMARK MOVIES
LOOK LIKE THAT. [LAUGHING] DAVE: THEY GET OUT
OF MARRIAGE BECAUSE IT'S NOT A PERFECT RELATIONSHIP. THEY'LL HAVE A RELATIONSHIP
WITH SOMEBODY ELSE BUT IT'S NOT A PERFECT
RELATIONSHIP AND CONTINUE THAT RELATIONSHIP. SO, IT'S REALLY THE DEVIL. HE GETS IN THERE,
AND HE STARTS WORKING ON THINGS, AND STARTS TO REALLY
GET YOU IN AN AREA. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS,
I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT HERE, WAS JOYCE--WHEN WE GOT
IN A HEATED DISCUSSION... JOYCE: UH-OH, "JOYCE..." [LAUGHING] DAVE: SHE WOULD REMEMBER
THINGS FROM YEARS AGO. AND I SAID, "WHERE DO YOU
PUT ALL THIS STUFF? HOW DO YOU--"
I'D FORGET IT. AFTER WE HAD A DISCUSSION,
I'D FORGET IT. GINGER: THERE'S A LITTLE
FILING CABINET. [LAUGHING] DAVE: THE NEXT DAY,
I'D FORGET IT. AND I'D SAY, "HOW--YOU MUST HAVE
A COMPUTER FOR A BRAIN. HOW DO YOU KEEP ALL THAT STUFF
AND REMEMBER ALL THAT STUFF?" I SAID, "I COULDN'T REMEMBER
LAST WEEK WHAT WE ARGUED ABOUT," YOU KNOW. JOYCE: THE BIBLE SAYS,
"LOVE TAKES NO ACCOUNT OF THE EVIL DONE TO IT."
IN OTHER WORDS, IT DOESN'T KEEP RECORDS OF WRONGS. AND SO--AND NOW,
I'M NOT THAT WAY ANYMORE. I MEAN, NOW, I MEAN, MAYBE,
I COULD REMEMBER DAVE AND I HAVING A COUPLE
OF ARGUMENTS IN THE LAST YEAR, BUT I REALLY COULDN'T TELL YOU
WHAT THEY WERE ABOUT, NOW. BECAUSE I DO FORGIVE AND LET
GO OF THINGS REALLY FAST. AND THAT'S SO IMPORTANT
IN A MARRIAGE, BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T LET GO OF IT,
THE LONGER YOU HANG ON TO IT, THE BIGGER IT'S GOING
TO SEEM TO YOU. AND IT JUST--ALL I CAN SAY IS,
DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO MAKE THE ONE YOU'VE GOT WORK. AND, LIKE I SAID,
THERE'S TIMES WHEN IT WON'T. YOU KNOW, I REALIZE THERE
ARE SERIOUS SITUATIONS. YOU DON'T WANT TO LET
SOMEBODY ABUSE YOU. YOU KNOW, THERE'S DEFINITELY
REASONS WHY IT WON'T WORK. BUT I'M TALKING MAINLY,
ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT JUST, THEY LET PETTY THINGS
BECOME MAJOR THINGS. OR SOMEBODY DOES DO SOMETHING
WRONG IN A RELATIONSHIP AND THE PERSON JUST--
YOU JUST WON'T FORGIVE 'EM. "I JUST WON'T FORGIVE YOU. I'M NOT GOING TO FORGIVE YOU."
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH THAT. YOU'VE HAD THINGS
YOU'VE HAD TO FORGIVE. GINGER: I HAVE;
HARD THINGS TO FORGIVE. JOYCE: THERE ARE VERY HARD
THINGS TO FORGIVE. THINGS YOU COULD HAVE
EASILY SAID, YOU KNOW, "I'M GETTING A DIVORCE,"
AND FELT JUSTIFIED IN DOING IT. BUT YOU MADE A DECISION THAT
YOU WANTED TO DO IT GOD'S WAY. GINGER: YEAH, HE'S NOT
EASY TO LIVE WITH, EITHER. I'LL JUST THROW THAT OUT THERE,
'CUZ I SAID THAT I'M NOT. JOYCE: WELL, LET ME JUST SAY,
DAVE'S NOT AS PERFECT AS EVERYBODY THINKS HE IS. GINGER: BUT SO GLAD. I'M SO GLAD THAT WE DID MAKE
THE DECISIONS THAT WE MADE, THAT WE WORKED THROUGH THINGS. AND THEY WERE THINGS
THAT GOD HELPED US, AND WE COULD WORK THROUGH. AND NOT EVERYBODY IS IN THAT
SITUATION, I UNDERSTAND THAT. JOYCE: WELL, JAI'S HUSBAND
WOULDN'T WORK THROUGH IT. JAI: AND THAT'S ONE
OF THE THINGS THAT I'M THE MOST GRATEFUL FOR. IN THE MOMENT, LIKE,
I FELT LIKE, STUPID. 'CUZ I WANTED TO HAVE
THAT MOMENT, LIKE, ONCE YOU--ONCE YOU FIND
OUT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, LIKE, YOUR HUSBAND CHEATING
ON YOU OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU JUST WANNA HAVE YOUR MOMENT. LIKE, THE MOVIES, TOO. THE OTHER MOVIES,
OF THE WOMEN THAT BUST THE WINDOWS OUT THE CAR! AND WELL--
I MEAN, I'M SORRY. I HAD A MOMENT. BUT YOU WANNA HAVE THAT
MOMENT OF FEELING LIKE YOU'VE BEEN VINDICATED. AND I WANTED TO SERVE
HIM WITH PAPERS, BUT GOD WOULD NOT ALLOW ME TO. HE TOLD ME TO SIT STILL,
AND I CONSTANTLY SAID, "I'M MARRIED UNTIL I'M NOT,"
YOU KNOW. AND LIKE, I WAS PRAYING
OVER OUR MARRIAGE. I WAS ASKING HIM,
BUT I CAN'T FORCE SOMEONE. HE SERVED ME WITH PAPERS,
AND I SAID, "IF YOU DID THAT, THEN--"
I MEAN, IT'S-- I MEAN, I ONLY HAD 30 DAYS
TO RESPOND. SO, I HAD TO SIGN IT BACK,
EVEN THOUGH, BUT-- I FELT SO LITTLE DOING THAT. BUT, HONESTLY,
ON THE OTHER SIDE OF DIVORCE, I STILL FEEL A PEACE ABOUT
THE FACT THAT I TRIED, I DID EVERYTHING
IN MY POSSIBLE-- JOYCE: AND THAT'S GOOD
THAT YOU HAVE THAT. THAT YOU KNOW, THAT YOU DID
THE BEST THAT YOU COULD. YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THAT THERE
ARE PEOPLE WATCHING TODAY, AND YOU'RE CONTEMPLATING
MARRIAGE, YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT GETTING MARRIED,
AND I JUST WANNA TELL YOU THAT AFTER YOU GET MARRIED,
YOU'RE GONNA FIND OUT THINGS THAT YOU DON'T KNOW RIGHT NOW. FOR EXAMPLE,
WHEN DAVE AND I GOT MARRIED, I DID NOT KNOW HE PLAYED GOLF. GINGER: AND IT'S NOT THE GOLF
THAT'S A WEIRD, TERRIBLE THING, BUT HE PLAYED A LOT, RIGHT? JOYCE: A LOT, YES. DAVE: OH,I DON'T KNOW
ABOUT THAT. JOYCE: NAH...A LOT. YOU'RE OUTNUMBERED HERE. [LAUGHING] DAVE: ONCE A WEEK WAS A LOT. JOYCE: NOT ONLY WAS IT THAT. HE LIKED FOOTBALL,
BASEBALL, BASKETBALL. HE EVEN STARTING LIKING
SPORTS HE DIDN'T EVEN PLAY; TENNIS, AND HOCKEY, YOU KNOW. DAVE: I STILL DO. JOYCE: I SAID, "HE LIKED
ANYTHING THAT BOUNCED OR ROLLED, HE LIKED IT."
GINGER: I CAUGHT TIM WATCHING PUTT-PUTT GOLF ON TV, ONE TIME. ERIN: THAT'S ON TV? GINGER: YEAH, IT WAS. ANY SPORT, HE'S ALL OVER IT. JOYCE: OH, DAVE WATCHED
BOWLING, ANYTHING, AND I WAS JUST LIKE, "REALLY?"
YOU KNOW. DAVE: AND SHE EVEN
BOWLED IN A LEAGUE WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER. JOYCE: YEAH, SO, YOU ARE
GONNA FIND OUT THINGS THAT YOU DON'T NOW, AND YOU NEED
TO JUST SET YOUR HEAD FOR THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU
MARRY SOMEBODY THEY COME "AS IS," YOU KNOW. [LAUGHING] JOYCE: MAYBE YOU HAVEN'T
SEEN THE LITTLE TAG ON THERE, BUT THERE'S AN "AS IS" TAG
ON THERE. THAT MEANS THAT, YOU KNOW,
THERE ARE GOING TO BE SOME FLAWS. NOBODY IS PERFECT
AND WITHOUT FAULT. BUT WE NORMALLY--WE MAGNIFY
EVERYBODY ELSE'S AND WE LOOK AT OURSELVES THROUGH WHAT
I CALL "ROSE COLORED GLASSES." YOU KNOW, WE CAN ALWAYS MAKE
AN EXCUSE FOR US BUT FOR YOU THERE IS NO EXCUSE. GINGER: ERIN, YOU AND MIKE,
HAD A BIG EVENT, NOT TOO LONG AGO,
WHERE YOU GUYS MADE THE DECISION... TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
WHAT YOU GUYS DID. ERIN: SO, WE HAVE BEEN
THROUGH A REALLY DIFFICULT YEAR, THIS PAST YEAR. AND IT WAS THE KIND,
WHERE I WAS LISTENING TO YOU A LOT, TALK ABOUT DON'T--
DON'T FOCUS ON THE BAD AND LOOK FOR THE GOOD,
AND STAY AND MAKE IT WORK AND-- CAN'T TELL YOU HOW
HELPFUL THAT WAS. SO, WE HAVE JUST BEEN
WORKING ON A LOT THIS YEAR AND TALKING THROUGH,
"WE'RE GONNA STICK THIS OUT, WE KNOW GOD PUT US TOGETHER."
SO, I NEEDED-- I NEEDED TO RENEW MY VOWS
WITH HIM BECAUSE-- IT WASN'T SO MUCH ABOUT
A BIG THING I NEEDED TO DO. MY HEART NEEDED TO RECOMMIT
TO HIM THAT I'M GOING TO STICK THIS OUT. AND, "YOU ARE NOT PERFECT. I KNOW MORE ABOUT YOU NOW,
THAN I KNEW WHEN I SAID, 'YES.' I DON'T LOVE EVERYTHING
THAT YOU DO, BUT I LOVE YOU, AND I CHOOSE YOU."
SO, WE RENEWED OUR VOWS, A COUPLE WEEKS AGO AND--
JUST WITH MY PARENTS, AND MY SISTER AND HER HUSBAND. AND THERE IS SOMETHING
SO SPECIAL ABOUT IT, BECAUSE IT WASN'T ABOUT
THE STUFF. IT WASN'T ABOUT THE CEREMONY. IT WASN'T ABOUT THE DRESS. IT WAS, "I HAVE COMMITTED
MY LIFE TO YOU, AND I'M GONNA STAY MARRIED TO YOU,"
AND VICE VERSA. SO, IT KIND OF CHANGED--
NOT CHANGED, BUT RE-ESTABLISH WHAT MARRIAGE MEANS TO US. JOYCE: I THINK THAT WHAT
YOU'RE SAYING IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE I DO REMEMBER
A TIME WHERE I JUST WAS LIKE, "I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN
DO THIS ANYMORE." ERIN: YES. JOYCE: "I JUST DON'T KNOW
IF I CAN DO THIS ANYMORE." AND NOT THAT WHATEVER HE WAS
DOING WAS ALL THAT TERRIBLE, BUT I HAD MADE IT OUT TO BE. AND I REMEMBER MAKING A DECISION
THAT I WAS COMMITTED TO THIS, AND I WAS NOT--
"I'M IN." AND I THINK THAT YOU HAVE
TO COME TO THAT PLACE, OTHERWISE, YOU'RE ALWAYS GONNA
BE GOING BACK AND FORTH, AND THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA
BE A REASON WHY NOW, YOU MAY LEAVE OR YOU'RE NOT
GONNA MAKE IT WORK. BUT THAT COMMITMENT
THAT YOU MADE, YOU'RE BASICALLY SAYING,
"I'M GOING TO STICK IT OUT, NO MATTER WHAT."
WHERE, WHEN PEOPLE GET MARRIED, THEY MAY SAY THAT,
BUT THEY DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT'S COMING. ERIN: RIGHT, EXACTLY. IN THE VOWS THAT WE WROTE
TO EACH OTHER, WE WROTE EACH OTHER LETTERS, WE BOTH SAID,
"THIS IS WHAT WE PROMISED 11 YEARS AGO, WE HAD NO IDEA
WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN, IN ACTUALITY."
WE JUST WERE TWO KIDS WHO THOUGHT THE WORLD WAS GONNA
BE PERFECT LIKE THAT HALLMARK MOVIE AND EVERYTHING
WAS GONNA BE ROSY. BUT EXACTLY, WHAT YOU JUST SAID,
A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, THE HOLY SPIRIT SPOKE
SO STRONGLY TO ME, AND SAID, "YOU HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION. YOU CANNOT KEEP
SAYING THIS OR THAT. YOU HAVE TO DECIDE YOU'RE
GONNA STICK THIS OUT, AND THEN, MAKE YOUR,
'YES,' BE, 'YES.'" DAVE: AND WHEN YOU DO THAT,
YOU OPEN THE DOOR FOR GOD TO START MOVING IN YOUR LIFE. OTHERWISE, YOU'RE BASICALLY,
HANDLING IT BY YOURSELF, YOU KNOW. BUT WHEN YOU MAKE A NEW
COMMITMENT, THEN YOU'RE SAYING, "GOD, I NEED YOU TO SHOW ME WHAT
TO DO, AND HOW TO DO IT." JOYCE: AND YOU DO,
YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT PEOPLE WITH THEIR FLAWS. YOU HAVE TO,
BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST NOT-- I MEAN, THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS
THAT I'M ALWAYS GONNA DO, AND IF DAVE WANTS TO STAY
MARRIED TO ME, HE'LL JUST HAVE
TO PUT UP WITH IT, BECAUSE I'LL ALWAYS DO IT. AND THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS--
DAVE: I HAVE. [LAUGHING] JOYCE: THERE'S CERTAIN
THINGS THAT YOU DO TOO, THAT YOU KNOW, COULD--
DAVE: OH, YEAH. I KNOW. JOYCE: YEAH,
YOU DO STUFF, TOO. [LAUGHING] JOYCE: THAT COULD,
YOU KNOW, IRRITATE ME. THAT, IT'S JUST LIKE,
"THAT'S DAVE. HE'S NOT GONNA CHANGE. I LOVE HIM,
I'M STAYING MARRIED TO HIM." DAVE: ACTUALLY, I MARRIED
HER FOR THE FIRE, YOU KNOW. THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS
I MARRIED HER FOR. I LIKED THAT FIRE. JOYCE: WELL, IT WON'T GO OUT. DAVE: I KNOW THAT. [LAUGHING] DAVE: IF IT DOES,
I'D STOKE THE EMBERS. ANYWAY, SHE WOULD--
WHEN WE HAD HEATED DISCUSSIONS, A LONG TIME AGO, I'D SAY--
AND THE WAY TO THROW WATER ON HER HEATED DISCUSSION,
WAS TO SAY, "THERE'S THAT OLD FIRE. I LOVE IT. COME ON. I LOVE IT."
JOYCE: HE'D MAKE A JOKE OUT OF IT. I'D BE SPITFIRE MAD,
AND HERE, HE'S MAKING A JOKE OUT OF IT. JAI: I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. SO, I'M REENGAGING
IN THE DATING SCENE, OK? DAVE: YOU WHAT? JAI: REENGAGING,
OR LIKE ALLOWING MYSELF, OPENING MY HEART... JOYCE: TO DATE. JAI: TO POTENTIALLY, YES. EVEN THOUGH, I WAS LIKE... BUT I'M TRYING. WHAT WAS A DATE LIKE
WITH DAVE AND JOYCE? LIKE AT--IN THE BEGINNING,
WHEN HE WAS COURTING YOU. HOW DID YOU COURT HER? [LAUGHING] GINGER: YOU ONLY
HAD A FEW, RIGHT? DAVE: FIVE DATES. JAI: WELL, THEN GIVE ME DATE
NUMBER THREE, OR SOMETHING. DAVE: I WENT TO HER HOUSE
A LOT OF TIMES, YOU KNOW, BUT-- AND SPENT TIME WITH HER THERE. BUT WE ACTUALLY, ONLY HAD LIKE,
FIVE OFFICIAL DATES. I TOOK HER TO A BASKETBALL GAME,
TO A MOVIE, TO--OUT TO BOWL. JOYCE: PLAYED POKER WITH
HIS BROTHER ONE NIGHT. DAVE: AND I KNEW IT,
WAS THE GIRL FOR ME WHEN WE WENT OUT THE BOWL,
AND I SAID, "YOU WANT SOMETHING TO DRINK?"
AND SHE SAID, "YEAH, I'LL HAVE A BEER."
AND I SAID--AND SHE SAID, "I'LL HAVE A FALSTAFF."
AND I SAID-- FALSTAFF WAS A BEER,
AT THAT TIME, IN ST. LOUIS. I SAID, "YOU WANNA GLASS?"
AND SHE SAID, "NO, I'LL DRINK IT OUT OF THE BOTTLE." [LAUGHING] GINGER: "THIS IS THE ONE
FOR ME." [LAUGHING] JOYCE: "BOTTLE WILL
BE JUST FINE." [LAUGHING] DAVE: "I'LL JUST HAVE
THE BOTTLE." JAI: OH, I LOVE THAT SO MUCH. I LOVE IT. ERIN: WILL YOU TELL US HOW
YOU MET? I DO LOVE THAT STORY. DAVE: YES, I WILL. THIS GUY I WORKED WITH,
IN THE ENGINEERING FIELD, HE NEEDED A RIDE HOME ONE NIGHT. AND SO, I SAID, "SURE. I'LL GIVE YOU A RIDE HOME."
AND SO, WHEN I WAS PULLING UP IN FRONT OF--WHAT--I DIDN'T
KNOW IT WAS HER PARENTS' HOME. SHE WAS OUTSIDE WASHING
HER CAR IN SHORT SHORTS. AND I SAID, "WOW, SHE'S CUTE." [LAUGHING] DAVE: BACK THEN, YOU HAD
TO ROLL THE WINDOW DOWN LIKE THIS... SO, I ROLLED DOWN THE WINDA'
AND I SAID, "HEY, AFTER YOU'RE DONE WASHING THAT CAR,
YOU WANNA WASH MINE?" AND SHE LOOKED AT ME--
SHE STARED AT ME, SHE SAYS, "BUDDY, IF YOU WANT YOUR
CAR WASHED, WASH IT YOURSELF." [LAUGHING] DAVE: WHAT WENT OFF IN ME,
LIKE A STICK OF DYNAMITE, WAS, "THAT'S THE GIRL FOR ME." [LAUGHING] GINGER: I CAN SEE
IT LIKE A CARTOON. YOUR EYES GO...RERR...RERR... JOYCE: HE EITHER HAD TO BE
A TOTAL LUNATIC, OR HE WAS BEING LED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. DAVE: I ACTUALLY, HAD PRAYED. YOU KNOW, I WAS DATING
THREE GIRLS, AT THE TIME, BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS
TIME TO GET MARRIED. [LAUGHING] JOYCE: HE JUST DIDN'T
BELIEVE IN PRAYER, HE BELIEVED IN PRAYER WITH WORKS. ERIN: MAKE SURE YOU
REALLY HEAR FROM GOD. DAVE: I WAS 26 YEARS OLD,
HAD SPENT THREE YEARS IN THE SERVICE AND COME BACK
AND IT WAS TIME TO GET MARRIED. AND SO, I PRAYED, AND I SAID,
"GOD, I WANNA GET MARRIED, AND I NEED YOU TO SHOW
ME WHO TO MARRY." AND I SAID, "GIVE ME SOMEBODY
THAT NEEDS HELP." I DIDN'T KNOW, AT THE TIME,
WHEN I MADE THAT STATEMENT TO HER AND SHE CAME
BACK REAL SHARPLY-- LAUGHING]
DAVE: I DIDN'T KNOW, AT THE TIME, THAT SHE HAD
ALL THESE PROBLEMS. BUT, I THOUGHT, "ANY NORMAL GUY
WOULD HAVE RAN FROM THIS, REAL QUICK."
BUT, IT ACTUALLY, JUST DREW ME. JOYCE: IT CHALLENGED HIM. DAVE: AND SO, THE NEXT DAY,
SHE NEEDED A RIDE HOME BECAUSE HER CAR WENT IN THE SHOP. SO, THE GUY THAT I--
HE NEEDED A RIDE HOME AGAIN. AND HE SAID, "CAN YOU
PICK JOYCE UP?" AND I SAID, "YEAH, BUT YOU'RE
SITTING IN THE BACK SEAT." SO, SHE SAT IN THE FRONT SEAT,
AND I SAID, "SO, YOU WON'T WASH MY CAR, HUH?"
AND SHE SMILED. AND SOON AS SHE DID THAT
IT JUST BROKE THE ICE. LADIES: AWW!! DAVE: BY THE TIME I GOT
HER HOME, I HAD HER PHONE NUMBER AND CALLED HER
A DAY LATER, AND IT WAS HISTORY AFTER THAT. AND WE HAD FIVE DATES. I WAS AT HER HOUSE, QUITE A BIT
OF TIME, BUT WE HAD-- JOYCE: YOU REALLY WEREN'T
AT MY HOUSE. DAVE: YES, I WOULD. I USED TO COME TO YOUR
HOUSE QUITE A BIT. JOYCE: MY DAD WAS A NUT. HE DIDN'T LET ANYBODY
COME OVER THERE. DAVE: I KNOW. HE DIDN'T MESS WITH ME. JOYCE: WELL, HE WORKED
NIGHTS, SO YOU MIGHT HAVE COME OVER AT NIGHT. DAVE: I SAW HIM ONCE
IN A WHILE, NOT VERY OFTEN. GINGER: SEE, I LOVE THIS
BECAUSE IT'S REAL LIFE. YOU KNOW, IT'S TALKING--
I THINK PEOPLE SOMETIMES GET THIS IDEA OF MARRIAGE THAT
THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY BUMPS, THERE SHOULDN'T BE LIKE--
ESPECIALLY, A GODLY MARRIAGE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST GONNA KNOW
THROUGH WHAT GOD'S WORD SAYS, HOW TO DO THIS,
AND IT'S ALL GONNA BE PERFECT, AND IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. I'VE GOT A WHOLE LIST
OF SCRIPTURES HERE ABOUT MARRIAGE, AND HONESTLY,
SO MUCH OF IT IS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. IT'S THE HOLY SPIRIT GUIDING US,
BECAUSE IT'S A WALK. IT'S NOT A, "OH, HERE'S
THE ANSWER, RIGHT HERE, IN EPHESIANS."
I MEAN, YES, IT'S THERE. IT TALKS ABOUT MARRIAGE
ALL THROUGH IT, BUT IT'S SO MUCH OF GOD'S SPIRIT HELPING US,
AND JUST GOING THROUGH IT. JOYCE: AND YOU KNOW,
THE BOTTOM LINE IS, JESUS SAID, "IF YOU LOVE ME,
YOU WILL OBEY ME." HE DID NOT SAY, "IF YOU OBEY ME,
I WILL LOVE YOU." HE'S ALREADY COMMITTED
TO LOVING US. BUT HE SAID, "IF YOU LOVE ME,
YOU WILL OBEY ME." AND I DO THINK,
THAT PEOPLE THAT HAVE COMMITTED THEIR LIFE TO CHRIST,
THAT YOU NEED TO BE WILLING TO DO THINGS FOR THE LORD,
THAT YOU MIGHT NOT BE WILLING TO DO FOR A PERSON. AND IF YOU WILL
DO THINGS BECAUSE YOU LOVE GOD, DO THEM RIGHT,
BECAUSE YOU LOVE GOD, HE WILL MAKE THINGS WORK
OUT IN YOUR LIFE. DAVE: WHEN I WAS YOUNGER,
YOU KNOW, AND WHEN WE GOT MARRIED--YOU KNOW,
WHEN I WAS YOUNGER, I HAD A STRONG
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD. BUT THEN, WHEN WE GOT MARRIED,
YOU KNOW, I HAD PRAYED FOR SOMEBODY THAT NEEDS HELP. AND SO, WHEN SHE BEGAN
TO OPEN UP, YOU KNOW, ALL THE THINGS THAT SHE
HAD GONE THROUGH, WHICH I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT,
WHEN SHE STARTED OPENING UP ON THAT, THEN, YOU KNOW,
IT DID NOT SHOCK ME BECAUSE I HAD PRAYED, PREVIOUSLY,
THAT I WANTED TO HELP-- YOU KNOW, I WANTED SOMEBODY
THAT NEEDED THE HELP. AND SO, THAT DIDN'T REALLY
SHOCK ME. AND IT PROBABLY--SOMETHING
LIKE THAT, IF YOU WEREN'T PREPARED AHEAD OF TIME,
YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT HAVE REALLY GOTTEN YOU
IN A SITUATION LIKE, "WHOA, WHAT DID I MARRY HERE?"
YOU KNOW, BUT, AS FAR AS, HER DUMPING HER LIFE ON ME,
THAT DIDN'T AFFECT ME AT ALL. GINGER: JOYCE, ANY ADVICE
FOR WOMEN IN A MARRIAGE, GOING INTO A MARRIAGE, DATING,
WHATEVER IT MAY BE, WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH
ABUSIVE SITUATIONS; WHAT'S SOME ADVICE TO HELP THEM TO BEGIN,
OR MAKE IT THROUGH A RELATIONSHIP WHEN
YOU'VE GOT REAL HURT? JOYCE: WELL,
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE TEND TO DO IS,
WHEN YOU'VE BEEN HURT, ABUSED, MISTREATED, YOU FEEL LIKE
YOU'RE OWED SOMETHING. AND, IN A WAY, YOU ARE,
BUT YOU END UP TRYING TO COLLECT FROM THE WRONG PERSON. AND SO, DON'T--
MY ADVICE IS, DON'T MARRY SOMEBODY AND THEN
BLAME THEM FOR WHAT SOMEBODY ELSE DID TO YOU,
AND TRY TO GET THEM TO PAY YOU BACK. ONLY GOD CAN PAY YOU BACK. THAT'S WHAT HE TAUGHT ME. ONLY GOD--HE'S OUR VINDICATOR. "I WILL REPAY," THE LORD SAYS. AND SO, IF WE WILL DO THINGS,
GOD'S WAY, HE WILL REPAY YOU. I MEAN, MY GOSH. WE'VE GOT SUCH A WONDERFUL
LIFE NOW, AND GOD'S ALLOWED US TO BE IN THIS MINISTRY,
AND WE'RE GETTING TO HELP SO MANY PEOPLE. AND WHO WOULD
HAVE EVER THOUGHT, IN THEIR WILDEST IMAGINATION,
THE FIRST THREE YEARS OF OUR MARRIAGE,
THAT WE WOULD BE DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS? I MEAN, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN JUST
LIKE SO FAR FROM IMPOSSIBLE. THAT IT--WOULDN'T HAVE
BEEN AMAZING. BUT HONESTLY, IF PEOPLE WILL
DO THINGS GOD'S WAY BECAUSE OF THEIR LOVE FOR GOD,
NO MATTER HOW HARD IT IS, GOD WILL PAY YOU BACK,
HE WILL REWARD YOU. THE BIBLE SAYS,
IN ISAIAH 61 THAT, "GOD WILL GIVE YOU DOUBLE
BLESSING FOR YOUR FORMER TROUBLE."
AND IT EVEN SAYS, "HE'LL GIVE YOU HONOR,
FOR THE SHAME THAT YOU HAD." AND SO, GOD IS FAITHFUL
TO HIS WORD. AND I JUST WANT TO SAY AGAIN,
I'M REPEATING MYSELF, BUT BE WILLING
TO DO THINGS GOD'S WAY, NO MATTER HOW
HARD IT MIGHT BE, AND YOU'LL BE AMAZED AT WHAT
GOD WILL DO IN YOUR LIFE. GINGER: THANK YOU BOTH,
SO MUCH. AND YOU GUYS TOO, REALLY,
THANK YOU FOR SHARING. I JUST THINK IT'S SO IMPORTANT
AND SO HELPFUL FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WITH US HERE,
AND WE ALSO, HAVE A FREE BIBLE STUDY THAT YOU CAN DO ONLINE,
THAT IS CALLED "KEYS TO A STRONGER MARRIAGE."
AND I THINK YOU'RE GONNA LOVE IT. YOU CAN GO TO JOYCEMEYER.ORG
AND FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THAT. IT'S FREE. IT'S THERE TO HELP YOU. IT WILL TELL YOU MORE ABOUT
WHAT GOD'S WORD SAYS, AND HELP YOU PLUG INTO THAT
POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT ALL ALONG. WE ALSO WANT TO INVITE YOU
TO SOMETHING EXTREMELY EXCITING. AND JOYCE IS GOING
TO BE THE HEADLINER OF OUR WOMEN'S CONFERENCE,
WHICH IS COMING UP. THE LOVE LIFE
WOMEN'S CONFERENCE, OCTOBER 8th AND 9th. IT'S AN ONLINE EVENT. AND JOYCE, IT'S GONNA BE FUN. JOYCE: IT IS, IT IS. AND YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH
WE'VE GOT COVID AND PANDEMICS, AND WE'VE FOUND WAYS TO WORK
AROUND THAT TO KEEP MINISTERING THE WORD TO PEOPLE. AND WE'VE HAD SO MANY PEOPLE
JOIN US ON THESE ONLINE EVENTS. AND YOU KNOW, GOD'S JUST
MAKING IT WORK BEAUTIFULLY. SO, I REALLY DO WANT
TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO JOIN US. IT'S GOING TO BE ON FRIDAY NIGHT
AND SATURDAY MORNING. AND WE HAVE OTHER PEOPLE
SPEAKING, AS WELL AS, ME. GINGER: SO MANY FUN GUESTS
THIS TIME. IT'S GOING TO BE GREAT. AND YOU CAN GET IT ON-DEMAND. SO, YOU CAN WATCH IT AFTER THAT,
AND SHARE IT WITH FRIENDS, AND I HOPE ALL OF YOU WILL
BE THERE 'CUZ IT WILL BE SO MUCH FUN. GO TO:
JOYCEMEYER.ORG/LOVELIFE21 TO REGISTER, RIGHT NOW. JUST DON'T EVEN WAIT
ON ANYTHING ELSE. GO DO IT. GO DO IT, RIGHT NOW, 'CUZ WE
ALL WANT TO SEE YOU THERE. AND ALSO, GO TO
JOYCEMEYER.ORG/TALKITOUT TO SIGN UP FOR OUR
FRIEND'S LIST. IT'S A GREAT WAY TO BE REMINDED
OF WHAT EPISODES ARE COMING OUT AND WHEN, AND ALL
THE FUN STUFF, GET SOME BEHIND-THE-SCENES THING. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH AGAIN,
FOR BEING WITH US. LADIES: THANK YOU. GINGER: THANK YOU, DAVE,
FOR BEING OUR FIRST MALE GUEST. JAI: IT WASN'T THAT BAD? DAVE: NO, I WAS SURPRISED
I GOT WORDS IN. [LAUGHING] GINGER: YOU DID, YOU DID,
YOU GOT LOTS OF WORDS IN. HE SAT DOWN AND HE GOES,
"I DUNNO, IT'S A LITTLE GIRLY." [LAUGHING] JOYCE: I TOLD HIM,
"THAT'S ALL HE'S GETTING TODAY. HE'S SAID ALL HE GETS TO SAY." [LAUGHING] JOYCE: THE REST
OF THE DAY'S MINE. GINGER: AND WE'RE GONNA
CLOSE OUT TODAY, WITH A SPECIAL LITTLE STORY,
AS TOLD BY JOYCE AND DAVE, THAT WE KNOW YOU'RE GONNA LOVE. JOYCE: WE OPENED A NEW
SAFETY DEPOSIT BOX. AND WE WANTED TO PUT
A COUPLE OF OUR KIDS ON IT. AND SO, DAVE AND MY ONE
SON-IN-LAW WAS ON IT, AND SO MY SON-IN-LAW SAYS TO ME,
"WELL, I HAVE ONE KEY, AND DAD'S GOT THE OTHER KEY. AND SO, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE
TO FIND HIS KEY, SO WHEN YOU-- WHEN YOU TAKE IT, TO GET
THE OTHER TWO KIDS ON THERE--" AND I DIDN'T HAVE MY NAME
ON THERE YET, THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL--
"YOU'LL BE ABLE TO GET INTO IT AND DO WHATEVER
YOU NEED TO DO." SO, I WENT TO DAVE AND SAID,
"WHERE'S THE KEY TO THE SAFETY DEPOSIT BOX?"
"I DON'T KNOW." I SAID, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN,
YOU DON'T KNOW? YOU GOT THE OTHER KEY."
HE SAYS, "I DON'T KNOW." I SAID, "WELL, STEVE SAID
HE GAVE IT TO YOU. YOU GOT ONE WHEN YOU
WENT TO THE BANK. WHERE'S IT AT?"
"I DON'T KNOW." SO, FOR THREE DAYS,
I'M LIKE, "FIND THE KEY," "LOOK FOR THE KEY,"
"WHERE'S THE KEY," "FIND THE KEY."
SO, HE FINALLY, STARTS SEARCHING EVERYTHING. COULD NOT FIND THE KEY
ANYWHERE, ANYWHERE, ANYWAY. OKAY, SO FOR TWO DAYS,
I'M THINKING "WELL, I BET IF IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
THE KEY TO YOUR GOLF BAG, YOU'D KNOW WHERE IT WAS." [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] JOYCE: UH-HUH, YEP. NOW, I KNOW YOU DON'T
THINK LIKE THAT, BUT. I WOULD FIND MYSELF THINKING-- [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] JOYCE: I'D FIND MYSELF
THINKING, "BE NICE IF YOU'D JUST BE A LITTLE BIT MORE
RESPONSIBLE WHEN IT COMES TO THIS KIND OF STUFF."
AND THEN, I'D THINK, "NO, JOYCE, YOU SHOULDN'T THINK THAT. NO, NO, NO."
AND OH, THEN, I'D WANNA SAY SOMETHING SO BAD. HOW MANY OF YOU KNOW,
WHEN YOU'RE JUST LIKE, YOU WANNA SAY IT SO BAD? BUT YOU KNOW, IF YOU DO,
YOU'RE GONNA START SOMETHING. AND IT'S LIKE, PEACE, PEACE,
PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE. OKAY, SO, WE COULDN'T FIND
THE KEY, COULDN'T FIND THE KEY. SO, I TOLD MY SON-IN-LAW,
"OKAY, FIND OUT," YOU KNOW, "IF WE CAN GET OTHER KEYS."
AND HE SAID, "OH, NO, WE ONLY GIVE OUT TWO KEYS. IF YOU WANT A NEW KEY,
YOU GOTTA DRILL THE LOCK OUT OF THE BOX. IT'S GOING TO COST YOU
$200 TO GET A NEW LOCK, AND GET NEW KEYS."
SO, I GO BACK TO HIM. "IT IS GOING TO COST $200,
FOR US TO DRILL THIS OUT." AND I SAID, "YOU KNOW,
THIS HAPPENED ONCE BEFORE. THE LAST TIME WE HAD
A SAFETY DEPOSIT BOX, YOU ALSO LOST THE KEY,
AND WE HAD TO DRILL THE LOCK OUT, AND WE COULD
NOT FIND IT. YOU SHOULD HAVE KEPT
UP WITH THAT KEY." SO, I'M GOING UPSTAIRS,
ONE MORNING, AND I THOUGHT, "I WONDER IF I HAVE THAT KEY." [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] JOYCE: GO AWAY. DAVE: LISTEN. [AUDIENCE CHEERING] DAVE: I SAT THERE,
AS LONG AS I COULD SIT. THIS IS MY STORY. SHE'S GOT THIS MENTALITY THAT,
"I AM RIGHT. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT."
JOYCE: OH, AND YOU DON'T HAVE THAT MENTALITY? DAVE: I'M TALKING NOW. JOYCE: PRAY FOR ME RIGHT NOW! PRAY FOR ME! DAVE: ANYWAY,
SHE'S--ALL THIS TIME, SHE'S TOLD ME I'VE GOT THE KEY. SO, I'M LOOKING EVERYWHERE. I'M LOOKING EVERYWHERE
FOR THE KEY. AND I LOOK IT FOR FOUR
DAYS ON AND OFF. ON THE FOURTH DAY,
I'M SITTING AT THE BREAKFAST TABLE WITH HER, AND SHE SAYS,
"DID YOU FIND THAT KEY? HAVE YOU LOOKED
FOR THE KEY YET?" IN DIFFERENT PLACES. AND I SAID, "I HAVEN'T LOOKED
AT THE OFFICE YET. I'M GONNA LOOK AT THE OFFICE,"
IN MY DESK, AT THE OFFICE. AND SHE SAYS, "YOU SURE,
IT'S NOT SOMEWHERE ELSE." I SAID, "NO, I'VE LOOKED
EVERYWHERE ELSE." AND SO, SHE GOT UP FROM
THE BREAKFAST TABLE, AND AS SHE WAS
LEAVING THE TABLE, THIS THOUGHT CAME TO ME,
"WHAT IF SHE'S GOT THE KEY?" [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] DAVE: NOW,
THAT IS THE HOLY GHOST. I KNEW IT, IMMEDIATELY,
THAT'S THE HOLY GHOST. [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] JOYCE: OH, YEAH, YOU GOT
A WORD OF KNOWLEDGE, RIGHT? DAVE: AND AS SHE WAS GOING
UPSTAIRS, TO HER OFFICE, THE SAME THOUGHT CAME TO HER. "YOU KNOW, I BETTER CHECK MY--
IN MY CLOSET JUST TO SEE." AND SHE GOES IN HER CLOSET--
WELL, I HAD CALLED MY SON-IN-LAW AND ASKED
HIM WHAT THE KEY LOOKED LIKE, SO I COULD IDENTIFY IT,
YOU KNOW, IF I FIND-- WHEN I LOOKED FOR IT. AND SHE COMES OUT OF HER
CLOSET HOLDING THIS KEY, DANGLING IT. OF COURSE, I RECOGNIZE IT,
RIGHT AWAY. AND SHE SAYS, "IS THIS THE KEY?"
I SAID--ONE OF OUR HELPERS, OUR ARMOR BEARERS
IS IN THE KITCHEN, AND IMMEDIATELY I SAID,
"PRAISE THE LORD!" AND SHE HAD EGG ALL
OVER HER FACE. NOW--
JOYCE: AND HE HAS NOT LET ME FORGET IT. DAVE: I SAID--
JOYCE: "YOU MAINTAIN PEACE BY HAVING A HUMBLE ATTITUDE!" [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] DAVE: HEY, YOU HAVEN'T BEEN
MAINTAINING PEACE UP HERE, FOR A LONG TIME [LAUGHING]. ANYWAY, NOT ONLY DOES
SHE FIND THAT KEY... [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] DAVE: BUT THEN--THEN SHE GOES
BACK AND FINDS THE OTHER KEY FROM YEARS BEFORE. [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] JOYCE: I HAD BOTH OF 'EM! DAVE: SHE DID NOT ONLY
HAVE EGG ON HER FACE, SHE WAS BURIED IN EGG. AND I WAS SO THANKFUL. AND I SAID, "LORD, THANK YOU. THAT'LL TAKE CARE OF ME FOR
A COUPLE YEARS." JOYCE: GO, SIT DOWN. [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] GINGER: WE HOPE
YOU'LL SUBSCRIBE TO JOYCE MEYER'S TALK IT OUT,
WHEREVER YOU LISTEN TO, OR WATCH YOUR FAVORITE PODCASTS. ALSO, GO TO
JOYCEMEYER.ORG/TALKITOUT BECAUSE THERE, YOU CAN
REVIEW PREVIOUS EPISODES, GET TO KNOW US A LITTLE BETTER,
AND SIGN UP FOR OUR FRIEND'S LIST, WHERE YOU'LL
RECEIVE EXCLUSIVE CONTENT. WHILE YOU'RE THERE,
CHECK OUT TODAY'S FREE RESOURCE. [♪♪]
