Joe Rogan Experience #2130 - Coleman Hughes

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day he we up all right what's up colan good to see you good man good to see you again what's cracking well I'm good you know you're great you got a new book got a new book end of race politics Arguments for colorblind America yeah I saw you on The View yeah yeah so that that's been overwhelming my past couple days yeah is that annoying no no no no I mean it's just when I was on there I I I really had no idea how it was going to land with the audience so I just went in there did my thing uh I had no idea what to expect I didn't know who Sunny htin was I actually still really don't know so I wasn't expecting necessarily for her to kind of try to Ambush me in that way and and uh attack my character in that way and I responded to it in the moment as I do and I didn't expect it to go as V as it did but uh I think it arguably went more viral than anything I've ever done it's hard for me to totally tell but I've just got people messaging me almost non-stop for like four days afterwards well it is the show that people love to hate yes that's true true they they get so much hate watching and hate hate watching viral clips of them saying ridiculous things I mean it is it is a a a rabies infested Hen House and and at the same time it seemed like the most interesting part was Their audience seemed to be on my side yes yes and that's their audience yes well Their audience is not really Their audience Their audience is a a group of people they bring in to watch television shows uh you know I don't know if you've ever seen uh audiences before for TV shows but they a lot of them are paid they're paid to be there so because they have to guarantee that there's going to be people there so there's services that you hire and when the show gets really really popular um you know like Letterman or something like like that obviously it has its own fan base those people will try to get tickets before anybody else does and and in that case they probably don't need to use a service anymore they just get actual fans but arguably like the fans the real fans of the view that are like oh these ladies are on point most of those people can't leave the house like they're probably immobile right right right because they their mom's taking their kids to school and and that's yeah it's a very strange show but uh it's fun to watch it's just fun to watch them it's good entertainment yeah undoubtedly well they're just you know it's interesting because I think Sunny is very intelligent but she's ideologically captured right you know it's sort of I think the other ones there's a couple of the other ones I want don't have to name any names we just very dull-minded but I think Sunny's not one of them I think she's smart but captured sure I think I think she came into it with an agenda of course you know they do everything with an agenda yeah you know um she she came in into it it seems want uh uh really wanting to paint me as someone that has been co-opted by the right wing yeah and I don't know how much research she had done into me she claimed to have read my book twice which is almost certainly not true yeah I I she was totally miss summarizing when did the book come out February the odds are very low very low right because very low think of how many guests they have on their show how much time has family obligations two what is it about 250 Pages uh something like that yeah I don't think so yeah but I mean I might be wrong I mean do you have an audio book available I do yeah I read it myself maybe she did it at Double speed yeah yeah yeah twice so I sounding like bench airo the whole time have you ever listened to Ben Shapiro on like 1.5 times no it's got to be ridiculous yeah it's insane Ben Shapiro should debate Destiny oh my God no they did they did debate did they really yeah yeah absolutely they did um who hosted them was it Le was it Lex was it I could be getting that wrong but it I think Lex hosted a debate like two months ago well he had a debate a couple of months ago but it was a Palestine no no that was separate I also saw that oh that was like the 4 Hour yeah there you go that guy debates everybody yeah it's so he's so ridiculous he does a Wikipedia search and then just starts going after things like he's an expert yeah it's just it's it's a fun time it's a really fun time fun time for watch watching people flail yeah for sure yeah but the the I think the problem with that show is that show has this very specific ideological bubble in which they operate in you know and they always bring on a token conservative woman they yell over her and silence her and you know they did that with Megan McCain and they did that with the what is that other blonde woman from Survivor do you remember her Jamie she was always yelling I mean it's just it's it's a bizarre show so we have 8 minutes and America's approach approach to race pretty big topic pretty important topic I think the way you before you start I think the way you described it is brilliant and the way we should all look at it of course you're going to see race the idea of being color blind is ridiculous but treat everybody that they're just human beings everybody's just individuals that's right that's that's what we should all hope for that's right yeah there's been this common phrase uh I don't see race that's equated with color blindness and point of my book is I want to say get rid of that of course we see race certainly in America in the west You could argue about whether children really see race but past a certain point we see race point is not to pretend you don't see it it's to say you know you're a white guy I'm a Black and Hispanic guy we notice that we're not going to pretend it's not there but whenever it matters I'm going to try to treat you like an individual based on your personal qualities and we're going to ask the government to do the same get race out of public policy if you want to help disadvantaged people do that on the basis of class 100% and understand that when you see these incentives that are put into corporations these are methods of control and that's what's going on when you see things like Dei initia it's not you're not really making the world a better place right you're just allowing these financial institutions to enact control over corporations and it's a really Shifty weird way they're doing it by making it seem like they're trying to make the world a better more equal place and then there's some people who are good intentioned but um have a very narrow narrow perspective and a very limited amount of information that they're operating under that will try to pretend that these things are overall good are net positive right and uh Sunny host may be one of those people but you know so we had eight minutes to deal with this topic on one of the biggest Platforms in the country and especially an audience that isn't my typical audience if anything the views audience is really who needs to hear my message the most and sunny decided to take up a few minutes of that precious eight minutes and attack me as uh someone who's been co-opted by the right and someone who's a charlatan and did she use the term charlatan she did it's it's funny I actually didn't notice it in real time I kind of went in one ear and out the other but how did she said you remember she said something like you know a a lot of a lot of people in the black community uh implicitly herself included think that you've been co-opted by the right and that you're a charlatan oh wow yeah and I explained to her I've only voted twice both for Democrats uh Hillary and Biden uh very open to voting for Republicans so I'm I'm a political independent and I'm only young enough to have voted twice uh I am I'm an analyst at CNN and I write for the Free Press which is weisses yeah and I'm independent in all those Endeavors and I patiently explain that and then basically asked her to go back to the topic that we're here to discuss yeah well it's it's a dumb way of addressing a thing and to immediately say that someone's been co-opted with no evidence whatsoever there's nothing about anything that you say that seems right-wing you know you're just objectively looking at these subjects and giving a very intelligent and measured opinion of them that that's not and just because some people who happen to vote Republican may agree with you yeah like that that's a ridiculous statement that you're co-opted I I think you're probably one of the least co-opted people I've ever talked to you're very open-minded and you're very you're very objective I try to be I try to be um but uh you know I I would argue even if I were co-optive co-opted hypothetically that doesn't make my argument here right now wrong right right because people that are co-opted sometimes say true things yes so even if I were I would say it's still at it's an ad homonym attack it's to the person rather than to the argument yes so let's get on to the issue yes and I think people the part of the reason it went viral is because what people have told me is you very rarely see someone who gets a character attack on a big TV platform calmly expose it as evidence-free and then just move back to the topic yeah well was beautiful that you did that and that's how everybody should approach these things and the problem is that's not what people want to do what they want to do is engage in argument and try to win and it's not really about having an open mind and listening to what this person has to say and trying to figure out whether or not it resonates with you instead they're just trying to win and trying to win in this weird soundbite way you know those platforms whether it's uh the view or any of number of these platforms are so inherently flawed just in this just the way it's formatted you only have a small amount of time you have all these people talking and you know it's just a they they can't compete with internet shows because internet shows are free yeah it's it's just I don't mean free like you don't have to pay for it I mean free like they're free to talk about anything there's not a producer in your ear there's not someone saying we have to to cut the commercial there's not uh you know executive meetings before talking about an agenda that you would like to like this we have to hammer him on this and this is this is really important with the election coming up and this not like God the the whole election coming up thing freaks me out because I think everybody is in this weird like pre-battle anxiety stage you know and they everything is life or death and this goddamn phrase that gets tossed around every five minutes it's just a threat to democracy everything is a threat to democracy except things that actually probably are a threat to democracy you see people talking about the threats to democracy and they ignore intelligence communities censoring social media which should be terrifying to people right should be terrifying to people because this could happen on the left on the right it could happen for a number of reasons it could happen for reasons that would be terrible for your life yeah uh RFK was on CNN I think yesterday and he said something that I think I've said before and privately and and I feel which is that I think America would survive four more years of trump or four more years of Biden truthfully I think America and the Republic is strong enough to survive either uh neither one of them is a very good option in my view I think we're given two very bad options but I also think don't move to Canada I think we're going to be okay don't move to Canada Canada's even worse yeah Canada's a mess um but people don't like that opinion because they I think they enjoy we enjoy the existential Stakes of of of politics even if it might not be there every time yeah I agree now I disagreed back in 2015 2016 when I was hearing how Trump was speaking on uh on You Know M Muslims on the registry all this kind of stuff I was one of the people that was worried he would be fascist truthfully but then what happened is we had four years of governance from him where he basically governed like a typical Republican and in some ways even uh had some policies that were to the left of what Republicans would do for instance on on Criminal Justice Reform he was very Progressive he made um uh funding for black colleges and universities permanent which if Obama had done either of those things he would have been criticized as playing leftwing identity politics right and so uh I I I slowly realized that there is a pretty big distance between what Trump says and what he does I don't understand that fact about him but I think it is a fact about him and so that's why I I don't feel alarmist the way I did when I voted for Hillary in uh in in 2016 really voted against Trump uh now that being said Trump is a wild guy and is difficult to predict I don't think he's someone you want behind the wheel uh in a in a crisis time uh and then on the other hand we have Biden who who has clear evidence of of cognitive decline um vying for the what's supposed to be the most important and challenging job in the world certainly in the country and people essentially claiming that it doesn't matter that he has obvious cognitive decline which is hilarious I not only that but gaslighting you saying that that's his superpower did you see that article no I didn't the Biden's age is his superpower Seth McFarland retweeted it I I agree I couldn't have stated this any better myself like what are you talking about no what you talk it doesn't make one way I I've thought about it is there's so much BS in politics one of the great things about the market is that it's honest because if you lie you lose money so if you look at when when lots of money is on the line who do people want leading their organizations look at the NBA look at the MLB who do people get as head coaches usually people in their 50s is the median age yeah because you've been around long enough that you've made a lot of dumb mistakes that 20-year olds and 30-y olds make and you've learned those things that you can only learn with age but you know in your 50s you're still you still got the vast majority of your cognitive power there and your energy if you're healthy that is yeah so that's really The Sweet Spot we we want a president somewhere in our 50s we don't want it we don't want a Biden no we want someone with life experience and hopefully someone that doesn't exist solely in politics like someone who hasn't become their Roots haven't like been deeply entrenched in the system someone who can maybe have some sort of an outsider's perspective that can look at the problems with the the current situation and the way things are structured the way money is allocated and the way funding is done the way bills are passed and which is a giant issue like when they sandwich these 2,000 page bills with a bunch of stuff nothing to do with it should be illegal it shouldn't be legal to have a Bill about let's you know for a popular topic the Border issue the Border crisis and in in embed in that funding for Ukraine like what yeah it doesn't make any sense to couple those issues yeah I mean a few months ago so basically you've had the Biden Administration ignoring the Border issue for several years because they wanted to Signal sort of how non-trump they were right and the border is Trump's issue so Biden comes in he says we're going to undo everything Trump did with the Border even though a lot of those policies are actually widely supported and and uh and and smart so they undo everything the migrant crisis Goes to Hell in the past two or three years even now infiltrating cities like Chicago New York everywhere and then you have uh Biden finally gets serious about the Border a couple months ago with the with the Border Bill and Trump gives the signal essentially that it's that it's not a good bill even though it really it was was a pretty decent Bill and certainly in an emergency you want to start stop the bleeding then Trump signals uh that the bill isn't good enough and and Republicans kill it essentially so I think both sides have tried to spin this right the the Democrat spin has been look the Republicans destroyed that bill they don't even care about immigration the whole thing's their fault of course what's wrong with that is the reason it's this bad is because Democrats have been ignoring the issue fully for two three years why do you think that is like does anybody have anything to gain by letting migrants into the country you know Tim Dylan uh says that he thinks that it's cheap labor and that they want to bring more cheap labor into the country and that it's very difficult to get people to do certain jobs that's why Libertarians partly like um illegal immigration that would be more of a coch Brothers policy though I mean that that's why they that's why Bernie Sanders called called open borders are Koch brothers policies because cheap labor interesting yeah but that wouldn't apply necessarily to buy like okay so someone like Biden I understand you you might argue okay are they letting people in because those are going to be the Democrat voters uh those are going to increase the Democrat voters base I don't know does Biden care about that I don't think so Biden's not going to be around in 10 years well I don't think Biden's making decisions you don't think he is no I you think it's his Circle at this point I think he's so far gone and this is what I said when he was running I was saying you're going to leave it up to his cabinet he's not able to form listen when you see him at debates or at press conferences he's at his very best and he's probably medicated they probably juice him up with a bunch of different things and get him hyped let's go roll him out there and then he even then he can't form sentences he he loses track of what he's talking about it's that's at him at his very best what does he like when he's tired what does he like when he's not primed right you know it's I I do not think that he even has the interest in doing that I think he wanted to be president he got to be president he has all these people around him and just even by the way he talks about things he's so out of touch with the way he's describing things and talking about bills that they pass and talking about important issues I just think he's completely out of it and I think it's a really it's it's very unfair and if that was my father I would be terrified I'd be sad I'd be like what are you doing to him you know like he should be relaxing somewhere you know he's embarrassing himself it's not fair he's to take a person that's in cognitive decline like that and just parade him out there and use him as a figurehead it's just crazy and if if you look at the difference between him now and him in 2020 he didn't look great in 2020 but he looked like he could handle himself right it's a huge difference now and just extrapolate that three more years yeah right H how is he going to be dealing with Putin and Iran and Israel sitting in three years he's not he's not doing it now it's it's someone else forming the policies you know they have the White House Press Secretary who got busted for using his Twitter account you saw that oh no I didn't see that she accidentally used her account and she tweeted when I was running for president I like and then deleted it but everybody caught it obviously um and and obviously there's the the Kamala liability yeah that's that's a that's a hilarious one the Kamala fans are my favorite are the who are I got a guy I got a guy I don't want to say his name I'm trying to be respectful but he's a comedian that's out of his [ __ ] mind he's one of them blue no matter who okay you know he's operated a just he's got this like cognitive distance it's very bizarre but yeah U my my dad was in econ club with Kaman in college really yeah there's a photo of them there's only eight kids in the club so it's a this tiny photo of my dad and KLA Harris and six other people wow when they were like uh 22 or something at at Howard University what's his perspective he doesn't remember her at all interesting and unless Vice President of the United States yeah she didn't make an impr Heartbeat Away she didn't make an impression a dying man at the helm you know I mean she could sneak up behind him at any moment and end it at any moment yeah at any moment it's crazy and it's uh it's so American really is we're just a a goofy ass country yeah we're we're amazing and it's it's pretty cool but it's also we crawl so far up the ass at anybody that wants to be in a position of leadership that no one who should be in a position of leadership wants that and most of these people that could be effective in a position of leadership because they've LED things before whether it's businesses or what have you they just don't want to have anything to do with it it's just a horrible attack on your character they they don't play fair they lie they'll get people to say things that aren't true they'll they'll concoct stories they'll put things out there with the aid of the intelligence Community like the the Russia collusion agenda like that thing then then they get the media that's on the left on board and then they just repeat this Mantra over and over Russia collusion Russia cuser you know and then they'll pretend that they didn't say that he never won the election they'll pretend they pretend that they didn't question the election they'll pretend that Hillary Clinton didn't do multiple speeches where she said that the election was stolen it was he's not a legitimate president Russia stole the election with no evidence yeah but when he questions the election it's a threat to democrac right it's just so convenient and there's just we live in this bizarre news cycle where there's information is coming at you so fast you kind of forget about what the thing you're mad about two days ago that could affect the rest of the country for decades right and you're just on to the next on in particular in America we uh we're very hard on our politicians and that's actually the idea of the country from the start is there's no Kings here right right and you go to other places in the world people worship or pretend to worship their politicians you can sort of see why someone would want to be in that position when you see that the the crowds of people fainting over Hitler speeches and all that stuff well you could see why someone would want to have crowds fainting over them in America you get some admiration but you it kind of just looks like you get your life ruined well for at least half the country is going to hate you yeah even a a president that's popular like Obama during his administration at least half of the country hated him totally and that's a horrible place to be it's a horrible feeling to be that person and know that there's all these people that think you're a Muslim plant you were born in Kenya or you wear a tan suit and now it's on the news cycle how much of an idiot you are for wearing a tan suit a tan suit I mean it's a nice suit what is wrong with the color tan why does a suit have to be dark blue or black or whatever it is that everybody thinks it has to be that's so bizarre cuz he could wear a tan shirt somewhere and give a speech like if he's you know at his home or something like that and he just addresses the press in a casual man that's fine right but when you're being serious I want you to put on your serious outfit your serious outfit can't be tan right and people ask me all the time why I don't get into politics or people expect me to get into politics cuz please don't they see me on The View well thank you you get it you get it um they see me on something like the view and they say wow I like this guy he he keeps his cool Under Pressure he stands for what I believe in why why don't you run for office man I'm like are you crazy are you absolutely insane why would I do that to myself for such a a a you know I I I even uh doubt how much change you could even have frankly which is why I uh as as as as much as I admire someone like uh RFK for his Charisma in the sense that he's the only candidate that if he talks for five minutes off the cuff I find it really compelling I think he's very honest I think he's whether you agree with him or disagree with him I think he's very honest and he's also very well read in everything that he talks about yeah and there's a lot of things that are very uncomfortable to discuss that he discusses openly and willingly and when you look at that man's background and this is a thing that people choose to ignore when they want to talk about him as a conspiracy theorist this is the big one they always bring up conspiracy theorists that guy stopped the polluting of the Hudson River I mean he was a very effective environmental attorney that was dedicated to making sure that corporations couldn't just wanly pollute things because it was more profitable for them to not pay attention to where their waste goes he put held them to task and he's one of the primary reasons why the Hudson River's clean right that guy I've heard that I I I never looked into it but if if true it's very impressive um but beyond that just in terms of Charisma and speaking no nobody holds a candle to RFK I think who who is neither Biden nor Trump right if you just say give a 10-minute speech off the cuff RFK is going to give a way more charismatic way more interesting speech than either of them agreed agreed so my my what that's what I feel when I listen to him at the same time when I look throughout history I somehow uh I I have a blanket skepticism of how much uh change politicians can actually accomplish even good ones in a in a system like America's where the president has intentionally very limited power over domestic policy they can actually make a lot of change in foreign policy because they have kind of unilateral decision-making ability but and then secondly I I always check myself because I I think the charismatic politicians are always the ones that are able to lead people into really dark Corners it's always the ones with Charisma that are able to use that Charisma power to yeah to get people to support things they never ordinarily would support it's the old adage that no one who wants to be president should be allowed to be president right right and Hitler had Charisma not from my perspective or your perspective but as a historical fact if we were Germans living at that time we would experience those Hitler speeches that look silly to us as Charisma have you seen the Hitler speeches with AI translation into English no I've seen subtitles but oh but they but they put the voice into English they changed which is a new technology that they're actually employing with podcast Spotify now has the ability to take this podcast with you and me and just for I think it's like 30 seconds of your voice and my voice they can have us speak fluent German Spanish and French right now and they're going to expand it to a bunch of different languages and just put podcasts out in different languages for different countries that's awesome yeah it's fascinating but they so they did it with Hitler you should watch it we we'll play it for you can we play it or will we get in trouble I have no idea let's find out let's find out cuz YouTube is so the the the jump I just just say this from just staying entirely on Spotify to now we're everywhere uhuh dealing with YouTube is so bizarre like people can claim copyright for things that are 100% not theirs interesting but if they claim it then they they can monetize your show they take all the money from your show so then you have to remove it and then you have to fight it right you have to figure out like if you play two seconds of a song is it two seconds how many seconds two seconds it's like over six or something I think okay don't know six seconds of a song they claim they can monetize your entire podcast Dam it's [ __ ] bizar well it's dumb it's dumb there's things that you should be able to talk about if there's a popular song you're like wet ass [ __ ] like look at the moral decline of America listen to this I don't cook I don't clean got this wet ass [ __ ] it's like you should be able to play that and just go what the [ __ ] are we doing this is wild right and entertaining and fun and a great song but so this is Hitler and this is also AI enhanced uh color eyes too which is interesting but this is so when we would hear Hitler speech would it would you know I was like we're going to crush the enemies and kill the Jews that's all I thought it was yeah right A lot of it is me to start with the eight seconds of the original yeah give me the original yeah my okay stop right there pause pause I hear that I I hear hold on I'm sorry I hear that I get terrified oh yeah because all of German sounds terrifying well it's to the to the English ear yeah it's such a it's such a aggressive language you know and when you hear Hitler yelling it it's so aggressive right and then when you know you hear what he's actually saying like oh this is like a regular politician my walk for correctness whether you believe that I have been diligent that I have worked that I have advocated for you in these years that I have been decent I have spent my time in service of my people Now cast your vote if yes then stand up for me as I have stood up for you that's incredibly creepy bizarre right oh my God very bizarre wow because we have these misconceptions these preconceived notions because of obviously all the evil things he actually wound up doing yeah which are real but also just the cultural filter of yes the way German sounds to the American ear it's a harsh language yes well there's many languages like that we just don't have a we don't have a cultural context to put that especially the sounds the sound if you heard um German Arabic no what's that this is Muslims speaking with their German so they have a German accent and okay they're speaking in Arabic okay and it's very strange because it's like you're hearing both things right you know and then there's also people that are Muslims that are speaking in Germany and they're they're they're you know talking about is isamic issues in in German it's strange cuz you're looking at this Islamic cleric speaking German you're like yo this is wild wow there's something about those Japanese is another one when someone is like very aggressive I find Japanese beautiful beautiful but I I grew up watching a lot of anime and I think that that influences it well I was influenced heavily by Japanese culture as a kid obviously with martial arts and but also by uh mamot Musashi who when I was a young man like that book the book of five rings was like essentially my guide book for Life what is that about it it's a book of strategy by this man mamoto Musashi and mamoto Musashi was a ronin who killed 60 men in one-on-one combat and he was like arguably the most famous he's he's my whole right sleeve is mamot Mage and he wrote this book the book of five rings and it was essentially calling for a balanced life to perfect your craft no matter what it is but he was essentially saying that for someone to be a great warrior you also have to be a great poet you have to be able to do calligraphy you have to be able to do art you you have to have a balance you can't just be this like Angry emotional killing machine you will not see everything you you you must be balanced and this is a guy that's speaking from intense actual experience sword fighting people which is probably the most intimate way to kill a man and he got so good at it sometimes he would show up with wooden swords and kill people with wooden swords cuz he just didn't feel like their technique was good enough for him to justify using an actual sword so he' beat them to death with ores so they would come at him with a sword and he would have like an ore from a boat and he would just [ __ ] them up with an ore Jesus Christ he was a fascinating guy so I can see how you kind of reflect that I mean you're you're like this uh you're this big guy and you do mixed martial arts but you also do yoga and you you know you and you pay attention to the world and so that kind of makes sense that that's where you come from that yeah that was my guide book when I was a young man and I was fighting I was trying to figure out how to control my emotions and my my anxiety and what's the most effective way to approach something that's absolutely terrifying like how can you approach it because you have to be scared cuz if you're not scared you lose your Edge you have to have an edge like every time that I ever competed where I was like overconfident I fought terribly even if I won I was very very ashamed of my performance you have to be scared and it's something that no one wants to be no one wants to be scared it's a it's awful feeling before you're competing you're like why I'm even [ __ ] doing this like why am I risking my literal life for no money to do this thing that's [ __ ] insane like I'm going to go out there and kick someone in the face they're going to try to kick me in the face and if I get hit I'm going unconscious I'm going to the hospital so I read a bunch of psychology books I read a bunch of self-help books I read a lot of Anthony Robbins stuff I've read a lot of different things trying to figure out what's the best way to manage the mind but the thing that I really gravitated towards was this one book because of the history of this man and the the way that he speaks and he has this quote that I use all the time and if you've heard it before I'm sorry but I'm going to say it again once you know the way broadly you can see it in all things and this was what I applied I think you apply it to many disciplines in life but it's understanding that to get great at something to to really understand something it requires this intensive observation of what the thing is what your flaws are what your strengths are and approach it In This Very balanced way and if you can do that if you could really know the way you could apply that to everything you do whether it's learning how to play guitar or chess or anything or or calligraphy or writing books whatever it is you you can you can apply that to all things so what you said about being scared and and how that's useful you need to feel that in order to perform at the highest level always makes me think of the Christopher Nolan Batman where he has to the second the Bane Batman where he has to take off the the rope in order to have the adrenaline to jump far enough to get out of the cave do you remember that scene I do not oh yeah it's I mean it's a brilliant scene and a brilliant message because Bane beats Batman puts him at the at the bottom of this deep pit and he he's trying to get out so he can go back to Gotham and save everyone from the atomic bomb that's going to go off there and he keeps jumping and jumping and there's this one jump he has to make that he keeps failing and the prisoners have a way of doing it where they tie a rope around your waist so that when you inevitably fall as everyone always does they've been trying to get out of this prison for years some people have been stuck here their whole life but there's a legend of a child that did it a child no one no one's been able to figure out how they replicate it so they try with the Rope all the time and then one of the Elder Statesmen of the scene says well I heard the way that the child did it is that they didn't use the rope and you have to fear death in order for your body to give you the necessary Fuel and material to to to land the jump yeah there's a reason why you get scared you need to be scared there's a reason you know custa who is Mike Tyson's trainer famously said that fear is like a fire you can cook food with it or if you let it run a muck it'll burn your house down yeah yeah and I see uh not to bring it back to the view but I do sometimes feel that about live television I feel that when I know it's live and I know I'm not getting a a second chance and I'm not getting a can you cut that out and millions of people are going to see this my brain goes into a different mode of of aliveness yeah knowing what the stakes are yeah and I think it probably causes me to perform better than normal yeah that's standup comedy too I imagine yeah I imagine yeah it's there's a lot of things like that you have to be scared yeah I get nervous every time I go on stage I've been doing comedy forever yeah I have to I've done it when I don't get nervous I don't do as well I need to get nervous I get myself nervous I Pace I move around I stretch I go over my notes I think about I ramp my brain up I think you have to I think you have to with anything that's very difficult to do I don't think I mean I think maybe there's some people that are just on a certain spectrum of Consciousness that are able to just like go Zen and and go into a thing and maybe there's different things that don't get you're scared that maybe being scared would be detrimental to those things because you'd make quicker judgments instead of measured and calculated CU When You're the thing about being scared it's generally things that are operating in a time constraint so you have this time constraint that's happening that also gives you a certain amount of anxiety there's a beginning and an end of every round for instance you know and you know each round is in kickboxing where I was doing it was 3 minutes and MMA it's 5 minutes and so you have this time constraint you have that you have how many rounds you're going to have to do that's in the back of your head you have all these things that keep you from being Zen all these things that like and the live aspect of it and everyone's watching that's another thing that's another element what about archery and shooting those are probably the opposite right well Archer is bow hunting is very much that bow hunting in the sense you want to be anxious a little bit yeah you're going to be no matter what you will you will be anxious but you must be able to per form at your best and handle that anxiety and there's a bunch of different methods that people use to avoid uh open loop thought processes so an open loop thought process is like swinging a bat you really can't stop the bat once you're swinging it you're Swinging with all your might and it's just this open loop right a closed loop process is something where you're in control of it every step of the way like for instance me opening up this thing I can stop right there I don't just go I can't you know it's it's it's not like a thing that I can't control you can control it and so when you're in a a shooting situation with it like with archery you have to think entirely about the process of shooting you can't just go now because you'll be filled with anxiety you'll move your arm you'll twitch there's a lot you have to be able to stay rock steady with something that's not very steady the beautiful thing about archery is the Perfection of doing something that's almost impossible to perfect so when you could have these brief moments where that Arrow does launch and goes right into that Target right where the x is MH this immense sense of elation accomplishment but now when you're dealing with an animal then you have all these other consequences like you don't want to wound the animal you want to be able to hit it and kill it very quickly with one shot and you have to practice thousands and thousands of arrows and then there's this one moment it's not like fighting where you have multiple opportunities to hit a guy you can move you can step to the side you could this is the one moment that the fight has actually happened but there's a lot of moments in the fight when you release that arrow that is one moment so you might have worked 11 months 3 weeks and 6 days for this one moment and you've been planning this elk hunt for the whole year you've gotten in shape for it you practice all these arrows but when that elk steps out from between those trees at 60 yards and you're at full draw you have to Center that PIN right where its vitals are and you have to release a perfect Arrow it's very very hard to do I've only gotone shooting I think twice or maybe three times and just that moment right before yes your body flinches in this way and so how does one get past that you have to train training is very important you have to train with purpose like my friend Tim Kennedy when he shoots on a range he puts dummy rounds in his gun so he'll have like 10 Rounds that are real and then one dummy round and then six rounds that are real and he never knows where the dummy round is what's the point of that so when you're squeezing the trigger you want to have like a completely flat squeezing of the trigger you don't want to do this you don't want to yank in anticipation of The Recoil right and that's part of the problem with guns you you Flinch in anticipation of The Recoil and when that bullet goes out of that gun that Flinch left or right over the course of a 100 yards could be a 2 feet off the mark who knows depending on how much you Flinch um and so that is a practice that some people employ to learn to be able to stay so steady no matter what where you're never anticipating The Recoil all you're thinking about is the process so there's no recoil with a dummy round exactly it doesn't go off so you can see the evidence of your own exactly you pull the trigger but nothing happens cuz there's no real round it's just a rubber or whatever the [ __ ] it is I don't know if this is Hollywood but I saw the movie The Killer David Finch latest movie and I think he had some kind of heart rate monitor where he wouldn't shoot until his heart rate was below 60 or something like that I don't know to what extent that's Hollywood or or actually important it's important yeah and the best uh snipers can most certainly control their heart rate yeah there's strategies you learn breathing strategies to employ your heart rate control your heart rate and there's also um strategies of um mental management of not not allowing this there's this like tornado of anxiety that can come on and you have to like see the winds blowing and go you have to calm it down you have you can't get caught up in it in your mind and I've seen people do it in many different things in life and it's you can apply it to many different things it's this this overwhelming fear of [ __ ] up instead of thinking about what you're actually doing you're thinking about the possibility of [ __ ] up which to [ __ ] up cuz that's what you're concentrating on right in the game of pool if you think you're going to miss a shot you most certainly miss that shot almost always you might get lucky and make it just like I thought I was going to miss but in in your head you're like I hope I don't miss I hope I don't miss you're going to miss but if you just only concentrate on the process you can execute even Under Pressure you can execute in a perfect line yeah and it's it's a mental management thing and the only people that know how to do that are people that have actually done difficult things under pressure and when you do difficult things under pressure you realize like wow there's so many factors that you can probably mitigate in some way through a strategy of control of meditation of thought of understanding what these thoughts are when they when they start to occur yeah I think a lot of anxiety management is deeply focusing on the task at hand right because if if you're you know it's not necessarily that the anxiety comes up and you're amazing at swatting it down it could could be that you are so deeply focused on the thing itself that there's no room for anxiety and that's very lucky if you have that level of focus and attention on whatever it is that you're passionate about it's like you're so upset like like someone like Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant the way you hear them talking about winning you can understand why they didn't feel any anxiety when the buzzer beater is coming up there's two seconds they have to make the shot is because they're so obsessed with winning that there's no room for anxiety right right it's it's like it's life or death to them yeah and there's no room for anxiety in those situations yeah you have to be I mean to to perform at that level too you have to be really insane you know I always say that greatness and that like real Brilliance comes out of almost like a mental illness it really almost does cuz in order to be just so much better at all the other high performers because David Goggins has the best quote he says you want to be uncommon amongst uncommon people yeah that's him but you know do you want to do what he does no like but that's what he that's how he's uncommon amongst uncommon people he's a [ __ ] complete psycho totally yeah but that is how you become David goggin you don't become David goggin's maybe this mild mannered person who contemplates and you know sits with his coffee and stares out the window and watches the birds and that's not that's not that's not how you get the job done no not at all and that's not how you become Michael Jordan either you have to be I heard that if you beat Michael Jordan at pool he wouldn't talk to you for weeks yeah that that's that's a maladjusted person in any other scenario that's a guy you can't really be friends with because but combine that with enormous natural talent and work ethic yeah a little bit of good luck that's Michael Jordan I mean the the top chess is the one that I follow that's my hobby and the top chess players are absolute Maniacs Maniacs these people like when they they they they actually when you try to talk to them about their mistakes you you've had hakaru on have you not no I have not oh you I don't know why I thought that I would though so hakaru best player in America um absolute Legend you know if if Magnus Carlson died in his crib hakaru it's very possible hakaru would be World Champ for a very long time wow um but what what separates him from Magnus Carlson just uh a uh Magnus I think hakaru once put it Magnus is a little bit better than hakaru at everything M little bit better at openings a little bit better at calculation a little bit better at end games he put it all together and he's he's just the goat he he can't be beat what was your to the point where he got so bored he got so bored of winning the World Championship that he said I don't want to do it anymore wow yeah he's still so he's technically no longer world champion because he's so bored of winning and it's actually understandable I don't even think anyone's mad at him because these World Championship chess Mass CH chess matches 14 games they can go to six six hours a game they can actually go over six hours a game brutal absolutely BR like if you thought taking the SAT and trying really hard made you mentally exhausted it's nothing compared to how these guys feel after a 6 hour chess game and doing that 14 days in a row spending six months prior to that working with chess engines to find one new idea in an opening 50 moves in it's it's absolutely grueling and he he does it every time and he wins every time but he says I I can't this is not fun for me anymore so I'm going to play all the other chess uh tournaments that you just kind of show up and do your best and he crushes most of those as well but I'm not doing this grueling I can't live my life like this anymore that's interesting because that is Jon Jones too Jon Jones when he was dominating the light heavyweight division he got to a point where the way analysts would describe it is that he was playing with his food yeah and that he wasn't afraid of losing to these guys he he and he barely trained for some of them like he had a a famous fight with Alexander gustofson and it was the first fight where Jon had ever been taken down and he got pushed deep into the rounds and JN rallied in the fourth and fifth rounds and won the fight and it was a crazy fight they had a rematch and Jon prepared and just dominated him and annihilated him same guy I mean just ran right through him the guy was still in his prime John was still in his prime there was not like a bunch of things that had happened that deteriorated him nope nope it was a couple of years later and JN ran through him and that's the real Jon Jones it's just the Jon Jones that was fighting all these other guys he wasn't challenged he was he's the goat and he knew he was the goat and so he didn't I talked to his coaches he literally didn't train for the Guston fight but yet still pulled it off in the fourth and fifth rounds just out of sheer greatness and tough toughness and grit and experience pulled it off in he wasn't in condition he wasn't prepared but still good enough to beat the very best Challenger he ever faced in the toughest fight of his career in the last round yeah and the thing with these kind of guys I don't know about fighting probably the same but with the chess guys you try to bring up a mistake a famous mistake that they made and it's it's almost like you're talking about a family member who died tragically it's like it means that much to them that they made a mistake 12 years ago on move 24 of some game that through the match it's I mean that's how hard these guys take it which is again in in you or me that's just a maladjusted guy that's like a guy with a problem that needs to go to therapy MH in a top performer that's what makes him a top performer and separates him from the otherwise very good professionals 100% there's a guy who's arguably the greatest pool player of all time at least one of the greatest pool player of all time His Name is Earl Strickland he's this american guy he won the US Open five times it's only one of the guys won the US Open five times a guy named Shane Van boning who's another genius player but Earl like he he would play with this insane intensity if he missed a ball he was like confused like how is it possible that I can miss there was a a million-dollar challenge now this is statistically so impossible to do under intense competition that they were willing to gamble and get an insurance policy that would give someone a million dollars if they could run 10 racks in a row of nine ball now what the way nine ball works is you have nine balls and you you you shape them where the bottom balls are missing which would make 15 which is a full rack right so it's just like triangle sort of a rack and then you break the balls and the one ball is in the front and the nine balls in the center now the balls scatter randomly and you have to run them in order so every single rack you have to have a shot on the one or the lowest number ball and then you have to have balls that aren't clustered together or you have to figure out how to break up those clusters and still get a shot does that mean you have to you have to break it strategically you kind of can but back then they didn't guys are much better now because there's a thing called The Magic Rack and what the Magic Rack is it's a clear piece of plastic that the ball set in where the balls are always touching always in the exact same spots because they're literally sitting in a pattern and so then these guys are breaking the balls more Softly which causes they do what's called a cut break which causes the one ball to go drift into the side pocket and the best guys can do it like nine out of 10 times and then the two ball bounces up table and they know exactly where all the balls are going to be and you see similar patterns over and over again fun what Earl strick was doing was smashing the balls and they'd scatter around and he ran 10 racks in a row for a million doll and he did it and he did it but it was so everyone's like it's never been done in a tournament before the first tournament where they get this insurance policy Earl does it not only did he run 10 it was a race to 11 he broke and ran the 11th too and he made a combination on the nine for the million dollars which is just [ __ ] insane and not a short combination either like distance from the pocket yeah so to be that guy you have to be out of your [ __ ] mind there's no other way you have to be completely obsessed with the game you have to be completely obsessed with all the details he does commentary on pool matches it's fascinating to listen to him do commentary because he talks about different English you got to use with this shot and different different things you have to avoid and nine times out of 10 the player does something different than he would have done and you see him get [ __ ] like yep that was what I was talking about yeah he just he sees it coming sees sees the whole table in a different way than a person who's a novice sees the table only things I've ever been that obsessed with I think in my life are are music um I'm a trombone player that was actually my career before I started writing I I still am actually professional trombone player you talk like a jazz guy yeah yeah yeah well I am a jazz guy Joe I had a I've had my life path is that I graduated high school I was considered one of the top professional jazz trombonist in the country went to juliard which is the the most selective school for that and that was my whole career like that was I I had this whole other career I've had was a pivot from all of that and how did it start basically so I was at Jew yard I was a freshman at Jewel yard um in New York City gigging as a jazz trombone player and my mom died at at when I was 18 and of cancer and it just shattered everything for me sent me down into a grief and depression and I had always been interested in philosophy and writing as well kind of as a side thing and I was always a very good student in school but my passion was music but something about the experience of my mom dying led me to reflect on what I wanted out of life and I dropped out of juard and applied to Columbia and and so I I realized I could still do music nobody learns music in school um so being in New York City I could still play as much music as I wanted to but I could also get a liberal arts degree and feed that side of myself and it was had my mom not died I probably just would have stayed at Jewel yard might have had a whole different life well that's fascinating is this you yeah [Music] yeah yeah it's me with a big afro that's amazing schol think when I was 8 years old I lived in San Francisco and our teacher took us to see Dizzy Gillespie oh yeah amazing it was wild and for folks who don't know yeah Dizzy Gillespie his cheeks puff out like a frogs which is the that's I mean you would tell me that's not how they teach you how to do it absolutely not and what he was able to do with his cheeks was I guess just years and years of stretching his skin cuz he had done it for so long yeah like look look at that me that's a full pressure extension of the cheeks no trumpet player would teach you to play like that but he was one of the greats U of of early jazz trumpet playing and he made it work and I don't know that you know I've never heard that he had any health issues from playing that way you know a lot of trumpet players they get older and you know Freddy hubard who's one of the greatest jazz trumpet players famously had a growth on his lip that kind of inhibited him in his last decade from the pressure of the Yeah Yeah from from the from pressing it against his lips and he had a growth I don't know if it was cancerous or not but it really oh wow become so irritated that a growth go there yeah that makes sense yeah but yeah that's not healthy but it worked for dizzy and that's the thing all the rules can be broken if you're good enough yes right yeah all the rules I mean and also he just figured out his way to do it mhm you know he just figured out a way to do it that's like not a way that you would ever teach yeah there's a lot of that though there's slide Hampton uh one of the great jazz trombone players of all time played left-handed which he's the only person I've ever heard of great or or or not who plays left-handed in other words the slide arm is always the right arm but somebody gave it to him wrong and that's how he played it and I've heard I've heard he plays it upside down he plays it left side right wow in other words every trombone player is crafted sorry every trombone is meant to be played with the right hand but somebody set it up must have set it up wrong when they gave it to him and I've heard stories of um so even left-handed people would do it the oh 100% of left-handed trombone players play with their right hand 100% yeah um but I've heard uh and and slide is one of the greats there's actually a great video of him playing at Dizzy Gillespie's birthday party which is a a famous video but he um I've heard I heard of this with guitar players where somebody gave it yeah was I didn't know that I didn't realize that he played it left-handed or yeah he played it like rather this way Jamie you know right arm on the neck oh yeah Hendrick was left I was I was thinking of Kirk Co B I think he played it upside down maybe right didn't he something like that because you'd have to rest string the guitar yeah you'd you always want the low E string to be the top I guess closest to you right and then some people wouldn't restring it because they weren't told to or yeah they just started playing the other way what was Hendrick's deal um look it up I think he was just Lefty see I feel like he was playing a right-handed guitar though I feel like he played a right-handed guitar left Hendrick also played his guitar upside down yeah why he played it upside down um well he also self-taught which is to me the most fascinating couldn't find a left-handed guitar which they probably didn't make as many back in yeah they probably didn't have any money you're saying he took a normal guitar and put it to the right just flipped it around so the so the so the low string was high and the high string was low and then he so he must have had all his own fingerings for I mean his sound was so different than anyone before him yeah there's there's leaps in music but the leaps that Hendrix took they're so different than everybody else like you you really it's so hard because I mean I listen to his music today constantly and I love it but I don't live in 1967 it's not it's a different world and I feel like if you were alive then and you heard Voodoo Child he'd be like what the [ __ ] for sure standing next to a mountain I chop it down with the edge of my hand and then you hear that music and you're like oh my and by the way not a great singing voice and nobody gave a [ __ ] nobody gave a [ __ ] about a singing voice yeah it was his music was so powerful the sound I wish we could play it right now the just the beginning of Voodoo Child that riff you have to understand there's nothing like that in music before him yeah there's not there's a lot of that now with yeah well because of it right because of it like and that's what happens is that you can never really go back with the ears of those people and hear it as they heard it because now you've taken for granted that this way of playing has seeped into the culture exactly this is what I always tell people that disparage Lenny Bruce it wasn't that funny here give me some of that dude I could run over a [ __ ] if I hear that it's still pretty [ __ ] awes oh it's amazing I could run over a [ __ ] mountain with that in my ears yeah that's a drug that song is a drug that song has like a physical power it imp Parts on you I get goosebumps just hearing it yeah but but that guy we have to understand there was nothing like that there was nothing like that you had [ __ ] love love me do you had like Buddy Holly and [ __ ] and you had you had great music but you didn't have anybody who played guitar like that right and this guy was blowing away people like Eric Clapton famously saw him going and was like what am I doing like this Eric Clapton with the greatest guitarist of all time he's like oh my God I [ __ ] suck I [ __ ] suck this guy's changing everything he's just a different thing like a a guy who comes along who's so beyond what's being currently expressed yeah that everybody has to like move towards him yeah so I every Monday night I I play Trombone at the comedy seller we have a band uh at the Olive Tree Cafe the the restaurant we play on Monday nights and we got two guitar players one of them is this guy Nick Casino that's just absolutely impossible to describe just AB absolute killer um they're all great singers uh Nick and Colin and Mike and me and my friend Dan are the horn section basically and we play like 9: to midnight every week we have such a good time there and the comics are always coming in hanging out uh it's a it's a and we play every genre like truly multi- genre and it's it's just an amazing experience wow that's awesome man I'm glad you still enjoy that too it's and then now it's like a pure thing right you just do it just for the pure art of it that's right and that that that was really what I realized when I was 18 taking every Jazz trombone gig that gave my way came my way and paid me $50 in a slice of pizza I was like this is my passion in life I love this but this is going to drive me into insanity if I have to take every single gig my whole life and eek out an existence yes so maybe I should get a degree and just see you know see where chit goes and that's how a lot of comics feel in the beginning of their career as well yeah the the comedy thing is very hard in the beginning it's it's a real Gauntlet that you have to you have to Traverse you have to you have to go through a lot of [ __ ] in order to become I did a couple open mics did you so I've always loved comedy and I had some friends it so they were like I go do I did two or three open mics had a good time didn't bomb didn't do great did did okay right uh and then but the bug didn't bite you the bug didn't bite me that's exactly right and I KN and the thing is I knew what the bug meant because I have it for music and so I I knew what it's like to be like I suck at this but I love it so much that I'm going to keep doing it until I don't suck yeah because with with trombone and trumpet there's no such thing as being good when you start right like there's some people that like the first time they sing in church everyone is like this kid can sing right right there's no such thing as that for trombone or trumpet for brass instruments everyone eats [ __ ] the first time they play and so if you just love it so much that you're okay and you have a family that's forgiving enough to hear you be terrible which I L luckily did that's how you get good at those things and I didn't have that for comedy even though I love comedy as a consumer well I love music as a consumer and I don't have that for music but but I worry I would Gary Clark was in here and he gave me his guitar and forced me to do an E chord so he put my fingers in the right place it does feel good it does feel good I started getting scared I started getting this could take me over yeah I'm worried I'm Legit that's why I want to play golf there's a lot of things I won't do because I get you think you're going to get into golf too much yeah I'm terrified all my friends like Jamie and Tony and Ron White they're obsessed I have so many friends my friends who play golf are all obsessed with golf so what is it that's so addicting about golf in particular Jamie yes all right smile play many times but it's like the same thing you were saying earlier with uh with po it like the same description just the or sorry with archery I meant with archery the the the the consequences obviously are less uh you're not going to miss and hurt something you could actually hurt a person target archery though is very intensive too but when you were describing when it all goes right which is so rare I heard something Samuel Jackson said recently where like in golf you shoot I don't know if you're bad it's 100 shots around if you're really good 75 um most of those still though you don't ever really do the intention of what you're trying to do which is Mak going in the hole right from where you are or like right where you were aiming or anything so it's like it's a bunch of mistakes and then it's like how good are you at overcoming those mistakes clearing your head every time fighting against nature also having fun with your friends being out of nature getting away from everything for four or five hours having a couple beers clearing your head it's like clearing your head cuz you can't think of all a bunch of other stuff where it will ruin your whole day because you can't have fun out there do you remember that Kevin cooster movie where he plays this badass pitcher it might have been a league of her own no that there's another movie where he like atier well he no so he has this thing where everybody's like he wasn't retired he was pitching in the movie For the Love of the Game for the love game that's it and so he has this moment like when he's on the mound where he goes clear the mechanism and everything just Fades out and he just looks at the strike zone and you don't hear the crowd anymore it's a really cool scene here we'll play the scene but we won't do it for everybody [Applause] [Music] [Applause] else [Applause] [Music] clear and mechanism nice hello Mike nice yeah my friend Colton uses that when he goes bow hunting he says clear the mechanism it feels like to put on boy headphones just just force your mind in this state of hyperfocus MH I wanted to ask you this what was your take on Magnus Carlson and that young man who apparently uh has yes nean yeah explain the story for people so basically what happened is there's this Grandmaster named Hans nean who's a young guy probably uh early early 20s Magnus is probably more like 31 or so like now um and uh what happened is Hans Neeman uh he beat Magnus Carlson at a tournament in a game not in a match necessarily uh you might need to check that but he beat him in the first game of of of the tournament which happens right like even it's kind of like how the best tennis player in the world can lose a game to a lesser player but probably isn't going to lose the match that happens pretty frequently in chess not not uncommon but it is the most uncommon with Magnus Magnus suspected Hans of cheating why did he suspect Hans of cheating Magnus is not the type to assume someone is cheating just because he lost a game he's never done that in his entire career reason he did it in the case of Hans is because there had long been rumors circulating in the Chess World that Hans nean was a cheater now there's ways you can cheat in chess in in an over theboard game if we're playing with a physical set in front of us uh the way one way people do it is they'll have a friend generally that is looking at the game either here or out in the hall running it through an engine and giving you a little signal like it like cheating in a like a baseball coach would um there are also rumors that in in principle it's possible to cheat with a device and I think that's that's happened in in some way that someone can transmit to you be looking at the game and transmit you a signal here's the right move with a certain number of buzzes if I have a buzzer in my pocket uh in principle it's possible to have a buzzer in the orifices of your body you know in your butt essentially and this is part of why it went viral is because there was a theory that they have pretty strict security at these places so where would have put the device you know they're not going to they're not doing an anal cavity check so that's that was part of the reason people were talking about it so much cuz that's just hilarious to contemplate but the real the real situation of it was that Magnus made some strong implied comments that Hans had cheated in the game then everyone started looking at the Hans and the rumors that had long existed in the Chess World about this guy became public and there were serious competing investigations of how is it this that this guy Rose so quickly for example it's very uncommon in the Chess World for someone to raise in rating that quickly in the professional world right there's like a there's a normal rate at which people get better and there's a kind of impossible rate at which people got better and people debated he had Defenders he had attackers both of them had some good points um about his rise in over theboard play then there's the online cheating which is a totally different story cuz chess.com has one of the really the state-of-the-art cheating detection mechanism and people cheat all the time on chess.com which is crazy because there's no reason for it right like someone like me I pay whatever I pay every month on chess.com I'm a random amateur player I like playing when I'm on the subway I like playing my friend occasionally you don't get any money for winning most of us have Anonymous usernames you don't get bragging rights for winning and yet there's a certain percentage of people like me on chess.com that just cheat for no reason they're just say at home in their mother's basement cheating to get a number on a screen that means nothing and them no money makes complete sense really why because of video games because in video games people would use Bots when you'd play online so an Aiming bot would make it so that you would almost never miss so you would play a guy and like say in Quake there's a there's a there's a gun called The Rail Gun the rail gun is very difficult to hit someone with but it imparts the most damage but it doesn't have a scatter of damage like like a rocket you could shoot a rocket next to a guy and [ __ ] him up you can hurt him but it won't hurt him as much as a rail gun which would kill him almost instantly unless he has a a specific amount of armor and there's some guys who would never miss they just hit you with that rail gun every time your your head poked out it would be impossible for them to know exactly where you were going to be for the amount of time unless it was dumb luck but you can't have dumb luck nine times in a row 10 times in a row 20 times in a row 50 times in a row there'd be scores like 50 to zero against like really good players and it's not for any money and it's they're just laughing cuz they're clowning you with a bot right it's fun yeah so so that's what people do on chess.com and just like that game where you you literally mathematically can only have so much good luck right chess.com has algorithms that are really really good at detecting when you've gone from the good luck space to the definitely cheating space so how do they know so so they looked at they looked at Hans neeman's games and they found that he was almost certainly cheating on chess.com in certain games and they they did a whole report where they highlighted the specific games can stop is it an analysis of his previous games and previous games so so you see this the level of Competency Based on the previous games uh what do you mean so you see his level of mistakes and what the way he does it and then in the games where you they think he's cheating what was the variable that they detected uh so one variable that they use is the length of time between your moves moves because in a normal chess match uh there's it's it's a bit random right you'll do some moves quickly and some moves slowly but if you're cheating you're using a machine that takes 5 Seconds to load for every move checking the move you might have you're going to have a regularity each move is going to come after 5 seconds for example right so that's one factor and then they have other factors uh another factor is just how high how accurate your moves are cuz chess is uh close to solved meaning the machines are playing it better than we are so you can check a human player Against the Machine player even Magnus Carlson will lose a thousand times in a row now to stock fish wow thousand times he has no chance I remember when big blue first started playing chess against people that was always the thing like once a computer can beat a person we're [ __ ] yeah we're way long past that now that's wild and so they can check if you're playing you know 99.5% of the stockfish top moves that's just not possible Magnus can't do it nobody can do it you might be able to do it for one simple game but you can't do it 12 games in a row that are complicated it's just not possible very much like what you talked about so chess.com combines that measure with these other measures it even kind of knows I think when you're switching browsers which can be a tip off to cheating because you're switching from the chess browser you're playing chess into the browser that you're um cheating with why wouldn't they just have a separate computer exactly so that's not the only thing they they could have well if generally they require you now to have a camera ah if you're competing in a tournament so you have to show your surroundings that they know you're not using a separate computer but but you could have someone off camera that was cheating for you the in theory yep if you could have a dual monitor set up on someone yeah yeah um but but the algorithm is is regarded as very accurate in terms of determining cheating and they did determine that he had cheated in a in a bunch of let's let's say they weren't top tournaments but they were friendly tournaments some of them had money on the line okay so so it was never proven that he was cheated that he cheated over the board and I'm agnostic about that I don't I've read both sides I don't have a strong opinion about whether he had cheated over over the board in real big tournaments but it was proven that he had cheated online um a and and again all of this is separate from the fact that he's a damn good chess player like nobody nobody denies he is grandm he should be a grandmas he is capable of defeating Magnus Carlson in a game not in a match so that's not to take anything away from him but uh there was rumors circulating and that's basically what happened and so his defense was I believe he admitted to some of it yes and his defense was that he was doing that because he wanted to get higher ratings quicker so he could play better players okay well still cheating still cheating every every chess player wants to do that right so just why they all cheat it's not an excuse It's not yeah also I think he said he was 16 at the time um but then there was some evidence that he did it when he was like 19 yeah that's right that's right he he he he underere exaggerated the uh he he he downplayed it yeah he downplayed it even in his admission um but again he's a damn good chess player and and he has a fiery personality which like some so many of these chess guys unfortunately are just so freaking boring from the audience perspective that when you get a guy there that's like [ __ ] talking and and like kind of being a being like braggadocious and stuff it's really entertaining to watch because it's so rare so so many chess players I love them they're a little bit autistic they're on the Spectrum that's not not to cast aspersions it's just true right and so from an entertainment point of view I think he's very good for the Chess World so he talks [ __ ] while he plays talk [ __ ] after the game oh talk [ __ ] after the game I want to see some [ __ ] talking Wally play it's like like Washington Square Park [ __ ] uh those guys have those challenge matches I've lost a lot of money to those guys that's the fun thing great though when those guys are talking [ __ ] and they're slapping that clock that's an entertaining chess they'll Crush you every time but wouldn't that be like better to have like if you want more I guess they don't really care if more people pay attention to it the purity of it no they do care chess.com definitely cares they they've had a huge influence in upping chess as a as a as an audience you know a sport that audience is watch the move is like the Searching for Bobby Fisher move just get him out there in the Park oh yeah that's fun yeah those I love I I I watch Regular chess cuz I'm fascinated by it but and I I know how the pieces move but I really don't know how to play I'm terrible yeah but um when I love watching those guys I love watching people sit down and talk [ __ ] yep and I love when like a real grandmas sits down and talk [ __ ] cuz like some of them are like real like high level tournament Players that get in there and mix it up with those dudes like oh I see what you're doing are you talking some [ __ ] here yeah and the the the guys at the park are usually just a little bit worse than the the kind of like mid-level professionals so the mid-level professionals will beat them and the guys do not like to be beat cuz think about it they're they're sitting there making money all day yeah occasionally encountering douchebags that think that they can beat them right and then and then someone comes along who really can beat them and they don't like to lose of course they do not like to lose I mean for example there was one time I've never beaten one of the main guys so I'm just going to be honest about that never even come close to beating any of the main guys at Washington Square or Union Park in New York and I never will but one day there was like a sub there like not one of the normal guys and I was beating him I was so excited it's the first time I was like I'm tired of losing you know all my money to these people and and one of his friends came over saw that I was winning because it was obvious I was winning and the guy made some kind of innocent comment and and the guy I'm playing goes oh oh well he's helping you now the game's void and I was like oh come on dude come on you're just saying that cuz you're losing wow wow but I let him have it I was like screw it yeah you don't want to get in a fight with those dudes no some of them are really weird a lot of them are high a lot of them are drunk during the day MH yeah I was watching one where this Grandmaster was playing one of those guys and the guy uh moved his piece in a funny way he like went back and forth and put in a different spot and he's like hey I saw what you did I saw what you did there oh yeah the the video with Maurice Ashley that's him yeah oh that's the best yeah yeah he catches the guy morrice is beating his ass and he uh he I think he yeah he SWAT he does a little magician trick but morrice catches it but and this is we can't play it unfortunately the volume we'll get in trouble but yeah he busted him doing it might in yeah I think he's in trouble wait a minute let me get rid of this guy he's not friendly see what he did that that's what he did yep yep y that was right don't try to trickery now trick like a magic trick I like the way you did that nothing like magic yeah hilarious that would 100% that would probably work on me but that's not going to work on a Grandmaster and he didn't know that this was Maurice Ashley he just thought this was some random guy so now his ego was involved I can't lose to some Rando and so he tries to pull a fast one but nope not on a Grandmaster and a Grandmaster is very confident and smiling doesn't seem like he's under pressure at all time but that that little magic trick I mean how of often does that guy do that because he did it so smooth I'd never know it was so smooth the way he super smooth y you know it's like it's three card Monty in chess form right yeah well that's pool Hustlers do that too that's what what do they do they they'll pretend to miss they'll they'll they'll move things with their stick they'll like like someone who's really good they'll cheat they'll cheat in ways where you don't see it they'll guide a ball in if they know that your your angle is that where you can't see what's going on right and they're also Miss on purpose that's the whole thing of pool hustling is playing below your speed until the money gets raised the whole thing about pool hustling is get a guy to think that he can win so let him win and then maybe you almost win but lose and you get upset and you want to try it again now he's really confident like yeah let's do it again and then you lose big and then you say double or nothing he's like [ __ ] yeah double or nothing and then you play really good and then he's like [ __ ] and so now the bet is gone from 1,000 to 5,000 to one set for 10 grand right and you know you're up 6 grand so you think you got this and then he beats you and he's like there's no way [ __ ] that let's do it again and then you do it again and now he plays even better like he might be playing even when he's playing good at like 70% of his speed right to make you think he had a lucky one I had a friend who used to do that he a he was a m uh musician who was a a genius who was just a crazy person who like lived as a pool Hustler he like always homeless like the whole time I knew him he was like staying on people's couches and sleeping like flop houses and [ __ ] and he's addicted to drugs but he was the kind of guy that you could do U math he could do it in his head like you would have a calculator we would do it at the pool hall we would say 369 divided 7 + 5 - 2 and he would bang out the number wow and it was like that it's crazy like what the [ __ ] man well he would pretend he sucks so he was like a fat guy and he would just show up in pool halls and he was real loud and you know talking [ __ ] and then he'd miss and when he'd miss he'd [ __ ] fall down [ __ ] he'd like bang his stick on the ground and sweat and go to the bathroom wash his face and come back out these guys they they thought they had him we got this guy we got this guy and then he starts winning and he starts winning just barely you're like oh he's going to fall apart he starts winning barely more and then they would get angry and you know and he would maybe lose a game and then they get back to it and then you know by the the end of the night they don't even know what the [ __ ] happened cuz they're watching this guy who now looks like a world champion and he's just running out from everywhere like what the [ __ ] must have got really mad though oh yeah I mean that can get you beat up oh that's the movie The Hustler they break his hands they break his thumbs yeah that's that's the thing that would happen so you have to know like how much you can win and you have to know like when to lose right and you know sometimes you have to lose money just to get out of there with your life you got to agree to play another game and then Fall Apart just to get out of there and then maybe you can come back and play him again there's guys that'll lose weeks in a row to set up a big game weeks they'll come back in and lose can you imagine conning for that long I really oh yeah those guys are good it was it was the part of the the craft I can't imagine it but that was the way they made money that was the part of the craft and you you didn't want want to be known so the best players back in the day would not enter tournaments the best players are these legendary guys that you would hear that were just playing in pool halls and then eventually pool got to a point where it was on television and they started making money and and you know guys became known like there's a guy named Buddy Hall who's like one of the most famous money players of all time and then eventually just starts playing tournaments you know and now every everybody knows him anyway he can't get a game he's buddy hall they used to call him Rags that was his initial G A lot of these guys have like fake names like Efron Reyes who's arguably the greatest of all time he came up from the Philippines and he said he was Caesar Morales cuz even in the Philippines in the Philippines he was a he like everybody knew who Efron was even when he was in his 20s he was a wizard like a they call him the magician he was a wizard on a pool table and when he came up to America just they weren't even sure they're like just just to be safe let's come up with a fake name MH and he just robbed everybody at these tournaments just robbed everybody in gambling just he he could play so much better than everybody he changed the game like sort of like Hendrick Changed music efon changed pool and a lot of people they play like the there's a lot of things particularly with like safety play that they learn from watching Efron what's safety play so say if uh you're playing nineball and uh you you're running the balls in order right um if uh I have a shot on the one ball but I don't have a clear shot at the two I will knock the one ball into a position and hide the QQ ball behind other balls yeah now you have to hit that lower number ball if you don't hit the ball I get ball in hand so you not only have to hit it but you have to also one ball either the ball or the object ball has to hit a rail after you hit it right so you have to kick and so kicking is you're shooting into the rails to try to make it rebound off the rail and Collide perfectly with this ball over a 9ot table and Efron was just a wizard at it he would do it in a way with Not only would he kick the ball he Kick It In Like A lot of the time CRA now guys play to kick balls in right all the time because they learned it from Efron like three rail kicks where you're cutting into a corner they know the exact spot on the table to hit with an exact amount of speed and spin to make it land right in front of that ball and nudge it into the pocket yep but that's all you know learning from these people that came out kind of out of nowhere you know these these pool players that were all these sort of shady characters that were hiding out in these pool halls in Louisiana and pretending they're like a painter they'd come in with like paint all over their overhauls and [ __ ] and they they'd be walking in like [ __ ] like a hay seed and just talk real stupid and drink a bunch and and then people would like get curious especially if there's like some traveling salesman from out of town and he thinks he's a badass he plays a little pool he's got some money in his pocket next thing you know this guy's robbing you table tennis is my my my other hobby really yeah really I play at this place called pingpod in New York they have a bunch of locations you can go there for not not 15 bucks or so just play with your friend for an hour or they have tournaments um it's really fun that's a wild game I love it that's to watch too I was always stunned that pingpong never became as popular as tennis because it's so accessible and it's so fun to watch and to play like you can play it people can play it lower barrier to entry too yes but also at the highest level insanely impressive absolutely insane I was watching this volley where these people were like like 7 10 ft away from the table oh yeah and super high speed and Diving back and forth and back and forth and it's like ah ah ah and the volle is insane then when someone does score you're like wow yeah the reflexes are just incredible amazing and so many different moves because you're dealing with something that's coming at you you know over this low thing very fast and you're doing it this way and this way and that way and gentle and fast just all these different sneaky tactics oh yeah God I love it I I learned to play uh table tennis when I was I think 13 I went to a Chinese language learning camp in Minnesota called senlin H and you go there for a month you can't speak any English I think after the first day wow I had a little bit of Chinese not very much and so that's how you learn the quickest of course is literally immersion yeah so you go there for for for a month and no English for a month and they had there's this older Chinese guy who was like 60 or 70 and I was super into pingpong but I wasn't so good and basically I played with him every day during the free period for like over an hour and he beat me probably like 50 times in a row but by the end of that camp I was beating all the other kids oh this this guy would beat me like 20 to three every single game but but through losing to him I good enough to beat all the other kids yeah you get What's called the rub yeah and I didn't realize I was getting good because I was getting beat 21 to3 every single time but you're also absorbing what he's doing yes you're experiencing it yeah you're getting the rub that happens in fights when a Fighter fights like an elite world champion one of two things will happen either they'll realize like oh my God that guy just beat my ass I'm never going to be as good as that guy or the next fight you see a completely overhauled version of who they were cuz they got the rub they got in there with Israel Sona and they got schooled and so they're either going to come back and be better than ever like Robert Whitaker or they're going to fall apart like some guys that he's fought he's breaks guys because they realize like I never I can't do what you're doing the way you're doing it my body doesn't work like that he's Israel in his prime was hitting guys with combin watch the Derek Brunson pull up the Derek Brunson fight Derek Brunson is dangerous guy knockout Striker really good wrestler very physically strong just a dangerous top Contender he's fighting adna and it's I believe this is before adna won the title if I'm correct not sure it might have been in defense of the title either way osna who will go down is one of the greatest of all time for sure he hits him with combinations like like he's on a different speed like there like there's a 45 record and a 78 he's he's doing something different he's moving in a way that's so precise and he knows many steps if I do this you're going to do that and if I step this way you're going to go that way and he's got all this programmed in his head and he's not what he calls smashing buttons he calls like a lot of people they're smashing buttons when they're playing a game you know they don't even really exactly know what each button is doing but they're trying to win by Smashing buttons he's like a lot of people fight that way he goes I fight with Precision it's like it's important he's like a lot of people hit harder than me but I have Precision watch this KO cuz this is a beautiful thing to watch if you appreciate Combat Sports and if you know how good Derrik Brunson is so Derrick Brunson is like very physically strong right here he's trying to take adanna down because Derek top tier wrestler and so they separate them something happened I think Derrick was grabbing his shorts or something to get mad at each other and so this is where aagna pieces him up even realize you're doing something so he's avoiding the takedowns here because Derek is you know a real powerhouse as a wrestler but [ __ ] is a striking virtuoso so then he starts putting it on him so Derek is just frantically trying to get this fight to the mat every chance he gets the combinations just perfect look at this watch this he's just piecing him up just connecting incredible so when you're in that space when you're like in a a cage with that guy one of two things is going to happen either you're going to go I can't do that I'm not that good he just [ __ ] me up clearly I'm so I'm 34 years old I'm never going to get as good as that guy or you become a [ __ ] maniac and you go to the gym Monday morning and you're drilling everything and you now you have this new frequency that you've experienced you've experienced this Championship level fighter and you realize these guys you've been beating they're good but this is what it's like to be in there with an all-time great right and you either get great yourself which many like I said Robert Whitaker has done or you don't or you just kind kind of like decide that you're a journeyman now you're never going to be a champion that's sort of what happened with the the dream team did you see that documentary they did no they did a great actually the redeemed team as it was called Remember When the the uh the US basketball team lost was it to Spain in the finals of the Olympics right and then four years later obviously all all Americans that care about basketball have an extreme ego that we are the best country for basketball right which is true but rest of the world is catching up I mean these European guys were getting better and better and I think there was American complacency and the dream team lost which was a huge blow to everyone who cared about basketball and to the pride of the NBA and then four years later um you had what they were calling the redeem team it was LeBron James Dwayne Wade Kobe Brian and so forth and basically everyone except Kobe got up to training and they were all kind of they thought that they were motivated they they thought that they had a chip on their shoulders they thought we're in the right head space to redeem the country and then Kobe got there and they realized they they were they were being silly right like Kobe they were going to practice they were doing their thing and then they were going out clubbing and then when they were getting home at 3:00 a.m. from clubbing they would see Kobe getting up to go to the gym and when they saw that then they all started doing Kobe's regimen and they're like that's that's a whole different level wow and then they won handily and uh that's the story it's a great documentary it's interesting how the rest of the world starts catching up with certain things you know um it used to be in boxing that um amateur boxing was dominated by Americans it was uh for the longest time and something happened somewhere along the way first of all the the the issue was always communist block countes right TFO Stevenson is one of the best examples of that he was an elite world champion from Cuba and people had always wanted him to fight Mohammad Ali like oh my God what would it be like of tfil Stevenson fought Muhammad Ali because he was beating everybody in boxing as a heavyweight but he was Cuban and he was Communist and he he fought for the Olympic team period and that was it he never defected many boxers did but he didn't but so they have that Advantage they're being sponsored by the state they they get food and special training and special privileges if they leave they win and yel Romero who's on the cubic uh Cuban wrestling team he explained that all to us here it was awesome podcast because Joey Diaz translated for for y it was was just amazing outrageous it was amazing it was amazing but the way he was saying the the the programs that they have like the insane dedication they have and then if you are uh of the elite you get three meals a day but if you're below that you get two meals a day and um so you have this insane motivation that these young guys have it's not just I want to be great it's like I want more food yeah crazy yeah he's like and you become a machine so he described it and to have this guy who's like a Hulk of a man he's so massive and he fights at 185 pounds or at least he used to I have no idea how he got to 185 pounds I was always baffled by his weight cut because he's enormous you know I mean he's this like just specimen of a man and so when he says and you become a machine and you look at him like he is a [ __ ] machine I mean that so there was that in the Soviet block countries but somewhere along the line the Americans lost a lot of the dominance and now there's these uh Eastern European Fighters and there's uh Russian Fighters that are super Elite like very very high level and they come over to um professional boxing and there's quite a few of them from some of those warn toward countries like Chia like one of the scariest guys in the world right now is this guy Arthur bitter beef and he's the light heavyweight champion and nobody wants to fight him he's 19 and0 with 19 Knockouts no one survives Jes and he's got this Seek and Destroy style that's absolutely terrifying he just comes at guys and never backs up and he's he looks like a [ __ ] terrifying human he's built like a tank with that beard you know the lower beard Muslims have you know he's just a monster man just a monster so what's what's the latest with the Mike Tyson Logan Logan was it Logan Paul or Jake Jake Paul Jake's the really good tell me about that cuz I saw I I saw that reported and I got super interested in it but I I haven't looked into it since I'm fascinating because it's going to happen and there's nothing I can do to stop it from happening do you want to stop it from happening I do not necessarily think it's a good idea for 57y Old Men to be fighting 27y old men uh I think with skill top like if a 27-year-old me fought a 57y old Mike Tyson yeah he'd beat the [ __ ] [ __ ] out of me it would be quick but a 27-year-old Jake Paul who can box and has very good power and he's very fast and he's young he's going to be smaller than Mike Mike will probably weigh 230 pounds is and Jake will probably weigh 200 PBS is he's fought you know I think he got as low as like 187 or 185 for some of his fights he's a big guy though and he probably Cuts weight to get there and he won't cut weight for this at all so maybe he will be similar in weight maybe he won't want to be because he he'll want the speed but he can knock people dead he's a really good puncher and he's a good boxer like he's fought very good boxers and he's knocked out a lot of uh former MMA Stars uh including like Tyron Woodley who's one of the greatest welterweights of all time and he flatlined him he's really good so what is Mike Tyson's incentive to do this it's a lot of money I'm sure I'm sure they came to him with a lot of money you know people don't think Jake Paul's really good those people are all people that can't get by the fact that he's a YouTube guy like I had this argument with Dave pornoy where he was trying to tell me he sucks you know and Tommy Fury sucks like he does not suck don't say he sucks you don't know what you're talking about you might not like him but you should separate that yeah you can't say specifically Tommy fury like he fights bums he's fighting his Tommy Fury guy I go you're incorrect as a person understands Combat Sports this guy's very skilled he's very skilled he's a very elite boxer like I'm watching the combinations he throws his movement the way he steps and sets up shots the way he's countering he's a very highlevel boxer he's a real professional caliber boxer and Jake Paul that was his first loss so but it was a close loss Jake Paul's a really good boxer and he knocks a lot of people unconscious and if he wasn't Jake Paul the YouTube guy just this wild kid coming up in the in the middleweight ranks or the heavyweight ranks or whatever Cruiserweight I guess he's in you would go holy [ __ ] look at this guy this guy's fun he's wild he wears all his flashy jewelry got crazy tattoos everywhere and he knocks people unconscious and he's knocked a bunch of former MMA Champions unconscious wow knocked Ben asran unconscious which is you know Ben asran was not really a striker but the point is like Nate Simmons that basketball player did you see that fight no oh my god dude this is when I was I was telling people I'm like hey man he can fight fight like really fight I know Nate is a basketball player and he's like really athletic and probably out of his element in a boxing match but he took it because he really believes in himself but Jake Paul is actually a better boxer but watch what he does the way he does it the way he lands these shots these are real punches that like Elite caliber of technique like he's got the thing he's got first of all he's got one punch knockout power which is odd it's it's an odd thing to have not everybody gets it so you could go like some of the greats like Julio Sayer Chavez one of the greatest of all time did not have one punch knockout power would beat you down slowly but surely with a barrage of punches just constantly moving perfectly placed combinations but he would wear your ass down over three four five rounds and eventually you just crumble over the weight of the blows you can't hit him he's destroying you Mike Tyson is a one punch killer Deontay wild is the greatest one puncher of all time Tyson is such a genetic freak that his 57 may not have declined from his prime as much as a normal person yes and science so here's the difference a 57y old today is on testosterone replacement that's the other thing I was going to ask it's not 57 in the Jack Johnson days we're talking about 57 in the days of biological engineering you're able to do all kinds of stuff with his human growth hormone levels with the use of peptides with the use of testosterone you the the difference between a young man and and an old man there's a bunch of them right but a lot of it is hormonal a lot of it is like how much you've been using the body you know there's there's older people that are in incredible shape that don't do anything like as far as hormone replacement they have just never stayed off the grind and they're diligent with their nutrition and their supplementation and they sleep well and they drink a lot of water and they're in incredible shape like deep into their 50s those are rare those those are the outliers right but a 57 year-old today that's on hormone replacement and you're you're eating well and taking a lot of vitamins and creatine and you're using all these strategies like red light therapy and saunas and coal punch that's a different thing man and Mike Tyson's that different thing right like he could [ __ ] him up it could be one of those fights where Mike Tyson gets him in a corner and connects with a punch and Jake Paul just goes limp he's still that guy if you watch him hit mits the thing is can he closed the Gap can can can he move has a quickness point he has problems with his back he's had sciatic problems to the point where a year or so ago he was walking with a cane now what sciatica is is your um nerves are getting pushed so something's pushing on your nerves it could be a bulging disc could be a b a bunch of different things but that's an issue it's a real issue that can become chronic especially when you're going through a long and intensive training camp like he's going through now up to July 20th you know but when I look at him hit the pads and he's hitting pads with this guy uh hael Cordo who's a legendary MMA trainer he comes from Shoot the Box in Brazil Kura Brazil created like one of the the wildest most aggressive mixed martial arts fighters ever Anderson Silva vanderlay Silva marillo Shogun all these guys who came out of there were monsters and howfield Cordo is from that camp he was an elite tie boxer and then he became an elite MMA trainer and so he's the guy working with Mike Tyson and so he's holding mits with Mike Tyson and Mike Tyson is smashing M that's what I saw in that so this is like right now 57 year old see if you can find some of that not the older stuff but the newer stuff it's because it's on his Instagram and you know looked pretty serious yeah he's like day two still want to [ __ ] with me I mean I'm 100% rooting for Mike Tyson oh of course obviously of course everybody should be and you know Jake Paul is Pro I mean he's probably a little scared MH you know as much as he thinks he's the younger guy and he's a tough guy and he's a really good boxer and he' probably be able to do look at this yeah give me some volume terrifying okay you don't know what you got in store baby you got to F to guard of war and get ready baby fire in the house that's still Mike Tyson yeah that's still what I see in and that that is a guy who's on testosterone that's a guy who's on human growth hormone got to be right Pro got to be yeah I mean I never asked him but I couldn't imagine he would try to do this without and I couldn't imagine he would be able to keep that physique like he got heavy for a while this is according uh this was updated today on USA Today fight must still be approved oh interesting it's only been announced on the calendar for the AT&T Stadium interesting they've not been approved by the Texas Board yet interesting well there's probably going to be a lot of pressure for them to not approve it just based on his age the age Gap is 30 years which is just wild right but there is a difference between Mike Tyson and a regular person just it I I I uh I I I listen to your podcast with Kurt Meer who who I know and I've been on his podcast had a great time on his b he's a fun dude he is uh but I think I disagree with you both kind of on the Israel issue on the the idea there was one point where you were kind of saying it's almost as if the Jews are doing what was done to them well as it's genocide I'm saying that when you're killing 30,000 innocent civilians in response to something that killed 12200 innocent civilans and you're continuing to bomb an area into Oblivion which is what it looks like when you're looking at Gaza there's many people that have made the argument that that is at least the steps of genocide or a form of genocide you're you're just destroying thousands and thousands of people's homes and and killing them so when you say 30,000 civilians it's not 30,000 civilians that have been killed though how many thousands have been killed so according to Gaza Health Ministry which is it is run by Hamas the number they have is 32,000 but they don't distinguish between Hamas and civilians how many members of Hamas are there 40 50 uh 40,000 something like that it's I don't think the number is known but it's tens of thousands so H Hamas says 32,000 people have been killed civilians and soldiers Israel says 13,000 soldiers have been killed by Israel so if you just being let's not doubt either number they could both be inflated but let but but if both of those numbers are accurate which they may or may not be that would be 13,000 soldiers killed 19,000 civilians killed mhm which for urban combat in the Middle East is a very normal ratio I can see I see what you're saying if you wanted to look at it cold and objectively yeah but still I hope it doesn't come across cold because but it's mostly women and children that are dying that are that are dying because they're in a place where these terrorists are right I mean this is it's not because the terrorists on purpose embed themselves with the civilian population which is a war crime which is a strategy that they have clearly employed when you see them and when when the IDF went into that hospital and just recently yes yeah so it's real it's not just a conspiracy theory we know that that's real um but it's still you're still talking about 20,000 whatever it is of innocent people getting bombed into the Stone Age and then there's this like what are the pressures that are being put on people that are trying to deliver Aid how difficult is it so my understanding of Aid issue uh and I I've looked into it quite a bit is that the aid is getting into Gaza uh there they've they've gotten over a quarter ton of food into Gaza since the beginning of the war which is pretty similar to the food that was getting in the problem is it's not getting to the people especially in the north because the north is a war zone so it's getting through the Border Israel's allowing it in but then what happens is the IDF doesn't control the delivery the delivery controlled by humanitarian organizations like unra and just other a whole Bevy of humanitarian organizations and they have these eight convoys going to people but then Hamas hijacks it random gang of people uh Palestinians hijack it hungry civilians hijack it uh and it's an absolute mess in terms of Distributing the aid and that's why you see and it was a problem in the war in Iraq too what was the case when it was being report it's very difficult to know when you know getting the Hamas version of a story and then you're getting the Israeli version of a story what happened when there was the aid truck and and people started getting shot the one last night no it was a while ago oh okay so yes that that that one that was a couple weeks ago that I don't I don't have the full detailed version up to date of what happened there but I believe it was it had something to do with a a clash between the IDF and other Palestinians that were involved in Distributing the aid because what you have is you have Hamas but you also have powerful families in Gaza that you could call them sort of criminal syndicates or whatever but they're powerful important families as well that are also taking the aid sometime and these are the families that if if Israel is allowed and goes into Rafa and defeats Hamas one of the possibilities is that they want to get these powerful Palestinian families to take over the Gaza Strip and the these people are also involved in in uh in the distribution of Aid or in the hoarding of Aid or in the stealing of Aid or in the uh taking of a and then selling it for very high prices on the secondary Market which is why it may not be getting to everyone in the north those the people that the Israeli soldiers shot no I think I think it turned into a it could have been a panic firefight and they killed they killed civilians what caused the Panic firefighter I don't I don't think there's details that I don't know so the accusation was that they were shooting people that were trying to get Aid yes yeah yes and you don't think that's the case I I think it's very unlikely is it possible yeah it's possible absolutely there there is my assumption is that there is going to be war crimes in this war right because and I know Kurt would probably say I'm I'm I'm doing the tragedy of War thing but it's actually a legitimate point in every single War even the just ones there are war crimes by berserk Soldiers by the good guys yeah that doesn't mean it's genocide and that doesn't mean it's not a just war that that is a very important point the war crimes thing because I think when you're asking someone to follow and Obey rules when you're also asking them to murder people that they don't even know and that these are the bad people like you have it in your head that those are the people that you have to kill and you're getting shot at and you're watching your friends die and you're you know two years into this now what whatever it is you know when you're in Ukraine for instance you know you're two years into getting shot at and like I'm sure they do some horrific [ __ ] if they catch people or if they get someone that they think is on the other side or someone who looks like they're on the other side it's you're you're asking a person to do an insanely evil and horrific thing but then stop when the rules don't apply and some people are not going to do that that's right and I think the the fundamental difference between Israel and Hamas is Israeli Society however imperfectly is not going to celebrate the monsters on their own side when they're really found to be monsters they're not going to they're not going to hand out candies to people who kill Palestinian civilians like Hamas does um in in reverse and so my feeling about it is still that you know any nation that suffered what Israel did on October 7th everyone in the country would be saying you have to go get these guys you have to eliminate this organization that did this and if they're and they're 80% finished with that job it would make no sense at this point to stop before you've cut out the last 20% of the cancer or before you've put out the last 20% of the fire right e even with all of the absolute suffering that is real on the Palestinian side you know so that that's how I feel about it and I I think it's really it's very very distinct from genocide because genocide is when you're trying to maximize civilian casualties I think Israel however imperfectly is doing the opposite they're trying to minimize civilian casualties that's interesting um what would people say that would um disagree with you when they talk about targeting mosks targeting hospitals and we know that some of the targeting Hospital stories are just not true like the New York Times printed a story saying that the hospital was bombed and that x amount of people died when it turns out the bomb actually hit the parking lot of the hospital right and very small amount of talked about that last time yeah so there is some there there there's but there have been for sure targeting of mosqu like for instance do you think that's because Hamas uses these mosques absolutely so when they're blowing up their infrastructure and bombing the mosques and bombing whatever it is Schools they're doing it because Hamas is in those schools they're doing it because they have good faith intelligence that Hamas is in those schools and they tell them these people are using human Shields and they just they just say well the most important thing is getting rid of Hamas yeah the the laws of war say you cannot Target a church a mosque a hospital but if the enemy turns that hospital into a military operation site as Hamas does which is it's routine for them uh then it can become legitimate then you have to do a proportionality assessment is it worth killing this many civilians to get the bad guys and that's that's a judgment call that I think reasonable people can disagree on on a case-by Case basis and I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I would disagree with that I would agree with every bombing that that that Israel has made I might think I'm certain there's one that that was not worth it you killed too many people for yeah um but but that's a judgment call that armies are allowed to make in in times of war and Hamas is the one that turns these civilian locations into military operation sites yeah which is a war crime it's it's imp like he this is the way I would put it succinctly if you ask the question what is unique about this war what is different about this war than all other other Wars it's it's not the civilian death toll the the ratio of combatants to civilians is I think it's better than the American armies was when we got Isis out of mosul that was like 10,000 civilians dead to kill 4,000 Isis this is 19,000 civilians dead to kill 13,000 um it's not uh it's it's not that you know the the what's what's unique about this war unlike every other war that I could think of is is you have a an Army in Hamas that has perfected the art of embedding itself and meshing itself with civilians so that you cannot hit them without hitting the people around them other armies have done this but none have perfected it to the extent that Hamas has no Army that I know of in in military history has had 15 years to build 300 miles of tunnel underneath a city that they don't use to shelter the civilians but they used to shelter themselves so that they can operate right under a kindergarten right under a mosque so this is a challenge no Army has faced and so that that's what makes this war different and and yes the the I agree with all of the the absolute tragedy and suffering of the Palestinian people but it's what what creates that is the way Hamas fights and either we can say one of two things we can either say well Israel just Israel doesn't have a clean shot and so they have to let Hamas get away with it because it's too much to bear um but then we are essentially creating a situation where terrorists have found the perfect solution which is that you can cross the border go house to house slaughtering your enemies and then hide behind your own people and they can do nothing about it it's a perfect strategy can we live in a world where we allow that to be an acceptable strategy I don't think so and it's very it's very ugly to watch it's it's heartbreaking and I completely understand why people don't think the way I think when they see the videos I completely get it but I don't think we can actually live in a world where that's allowed to be a strategy I appreciate your perspective yeah I see what you're saying yeah um you clearly know more about it than I do but also um one of the fears is that people wanted the people in power in Israel wanted Hamas to be in power in Gaza because they wanted an enemy that they could fight with impunity you know that they could they could attack they almost like they could justify what they really want to do which is take over Gaza this is the the fear that a lot of you know the the people delve hardcore into conspiracy theories about like there's there's people that I've heard call it a false flag there's two different things one is that they wanted Hamas they wanted Hamas to stay in control of Gaza and one is that because they could justify because they justify attacks and that they would always have someone to attack they would they would always have some reason to push forward I think I think the the things I've heard are two kind of conflicting theories one was that tanahu wanted to keep Hamas in power right and was essentially paying them off that's the idea he was funding yeah he but you know the whole world was funding Gaza you know the EU and America too because we don't want people to starve um but the idea was are going to keep Hamas in in place because Hamas is so scary and terrible and everyone recognizes they're a terrorist organization and and they don't unless you're on a college campus right right right and Hamas doesn't even pretend to want the two state solution whereas Palestinian Authority is more moderate they've become close or seemingly come close so if you're an Israeli Prime Minister against the two-state solution the way that that people have argued is that Netanyahu wants to keep the Palestinians divided Palestinian Authority Hamas here this way he'll never be pressured to do a two-state solution because Hamas doesn't even want it right so that's the idea is that Netanyahu wants to keep Hamas in power and that was based on comments comments that he made at a at a meeting although there was never a video of the meeting but it seems like something he might say so that was one Theory but then the other Theory which kind of conflicts with that they can't really both be true I think is that Netanyahu wanted the attack to happen as a pretext to take over Gaza um which I think makes makes no I mean the first the first theory is not crazy it's not at all crazy that Netanyahu wanted to keep Hamas in power so that because imagine if Palestinian Authority and Palestinian Authority are here they could link up and say we want a a state and then Netanyahu would have to be the guy saying no two-state solution right but if if they're divided he never has to deal with that it what doesn't make sense at all is that he somehow false flagged the October 7th so that he could take over over Gaza for two reasons one nobody has wanted to take over Gaza not even Egypt nobody wants to run it there's no strategic advant ADV vage for for Israel to run it well if Israel occupies it so if it's no longer Gaza if it's a part of Israel like Israel's expanded its boundaries throughout its history right sure but no nobody has actually want the the the Gaza stripping Israel is very focused on the West Bank West Bank has religious significant to religious significance to Jews they call it Judea and Samaria it's where so many of the things in the Bible happened so the Jews have an attachment to the West Bank many do even some secular Jews Jews have no attachment to the Gaza Strip whatsoever it's it's uh again Egypt didn't even want it Egypt occupied it for 20 years in the middle of the uh uh 20th century and they didn't even want it back after their war with Israel because it has no strategic value and it it was uh it's it it was more of a headache to manage than it was worth secondly October 7th is basically the worst thing for netanyahu's legacy ever everyone in Israel his popularity has only declined because of this event because he seemed to have let it happen and the second the war is over he's he he's basically going to be run out in in shame why weren't they protesting well weren't they protesting him before yes there was for months on the streets thousands of people yes they were and it was because he was trying to expand uh the powers of the court right he was trying to diminish the power of the Court yeah cuz the the court in Israel kind of has power to check the right-wing government um it's almost the reverse of America how we have a conservative Court they kind of have a long story short they kind of have a liberal court that can check the power of the right-wing party that Netanyahu runs ah and so there a lot of people disagreed about that it's a whole long issue but the leftwing in Israel was very upset that he was trying to diminish the power of the court so if the leftwing in Israel if he's trying to diminish the power of the court so that he could get right Wing agenda push forth if and again I want to be really clear not saying this is a false flag but that would be if I was a guy that was inclined to do a false flag I would justify my my need to do whatever I needed to do to combat these people that were willing to do this thing now I'm not saying not even a false flag but allowing something to happen or knowing having knowledge I'm I'm I'm not I'm not at all I don't agree with it myself I'm just saying that this is like a concept that people throw around so in counter to that concept I would argue Netanyahu was elected uh just before this whole judicial reform thing happened the fact that the left was protesting it doesn't mean that Netanyahu was uh in in kind of an existential situation his base loves loved him if anything the protest fired up his base even more so it was kind of like the women's March after Trump won yeah exactly right it was bigger than I want to give it credit it was bigger than that it was dividing as Society more than that but Netanyahu didn't even from that situation however precarious it was his situation immediately got worse after October 7th because everyone blamed him and um it's only gotten worse in the past few months if you look at the polling on approval of Netanyahu so if it was the if it was a false flag it'd be the dumbest false flag in the world and he's not a dumb guy so there's no chance it's a false flag so the other um conspiracy theory would be that they had four knowledge of it but they allowed it to happen this is one that gets attached to 911 as well right yes it gets attached to everything and and of course uh but I mean my my thing with that is if you're in a country like Israel if you're if you're the Massad or the shinb bet you have Hamas you have ham Hamas in Gaza Hamas in the West Bank Palestinian Islamic Jihad Hezbollah Iran hotties um uh and so on and you you're basically getting every single day you're getting a list of 14 15 different threats and plans on Israel right some of them small some of them huge how do you distinguish between the ones that are likely to happen and the one ones are not this is a very difficult thing it's not obvious right you use your intelligence you try to have spies in all all the Palestinian areas that are informing and so forth but you're constantly getting signals of threats all the time right so to say they to say they knew about it it um is is not the same as they might have gotten information about they did get information about a plan to attack at some point they didn't know it was going to happen on October 7th they didn't know the scale of it or how successful it was going to be how was it so successful if they have the most sophisticated surve system how was it so successful how were they able to pull that off so it was partly because uh normally Israel had would have lots of um lots of IDs stationed on the border with Gaza uh because there's a wall there but they would normally have lots of they had very few soldiers there because they were distracted the whole country divided over these protests the soldiers were in the West Bank uh oh and this is one of the reasons why people blame Netanyahu because it was under his watch that they took their eye off Hamas now this is where it goes to the first theory that Netanyahu wanted to keep Hamas in power one of the reasons why he thought he benefited and he I guess he did benefit from Hamas staying in power is that uh they believed Hamas was deterred in other words they they believed mistakenly partly because Hamas was sending these signals for years that Hamas it doesn't want to fight us right now right now they're focused on taking all our money and taking the world's money and building stuff in Gaza and Hamas was very smart they allowed Israel to believe that while they planned this whole thing so they got complacent essentially and this happens with uh this happens with groups all the time I mean like they fought with Hezbollah in 2006 but the Assumption has been that Hezbollah hasn't really made a major plans to attack full scale even though their army is way stronger than Hamas I mean Hezbollah has an incredibly strong Army but Israelis assume that because we we bombed them so bad in 2006 and they told us if we knew the leader of Hezbollah said this if they knew how badly you were going to come after us in add uh because of our raid in 2006 we never would have done it signaling that essentially hezbollah's not going to do anything even though they hate Israel even though they the whole their whole organization started to fight Israel they're not going to do anything right now uh and this is when when you have a country with that many security threats on all sides they sometimes rely on this notion that these people are deterred because they know what will happen to them if they attack and so they won't attack and and that's what they thought was true of Hamas and that's why they were giving Hamas money um and increasing the amount of Palestinians that could come to guys and so forth so it was all a tragic miscalculation but it was not a false flag so the what do you think they thought would happen if you go across the border and you kill TW 1200 innocent civilians no way they thought they'd be that successful really there's no way how could they have thought they would be that successful to to have the run of the place for hours going house to house Kuts to Kuts barely encountering any resistance for the first couple hours there's no way that they thought they would be that successful I think and how are the people they're not armed they are armed Israelis are israelies are uh all the people in the settlements were armed so the problem is the the kutes that are are right next to Gaza those are all the hippies that's where all the I've been I've been to those Villages that that's where all the which is why the r were there that's right and these are all the super leftwing Israeli hippies Communists that literally they live in communes a kabit is a kabut is a commune they're very little idealic beautiful Villages and they're the most left-wing part of Israeli Society they they uh they have a lot of love for the Palestinians they they're the people that go over into Gaza and when someone needs hospital they you know they'll drive them from Gaza to Israel so they were the not the hardliners they're and and probably the ones I don't know how armed they would be in that kind of a town yeah I don't that I that I don't know it's pretty crazy to be right next door to people that hate you and not have guns yeah yeah that that I don't know maybe they are armed but they these are people who are like you know they're living in communes what did they think the response was going to be I mean the response they had to think that Israel would do something comparable to what they're doing or the possibility of them doing something comparable to what they're doing was always there that they would just go all out yes but I think that from hamas's point of view uh Hamas could never hold a candle to the IDF we all know that there's a huge power imbalance they have no chance of beating the IDF militarily so you have to ask what is their goal well their goal is that in the long run the world will turn against Israel so deeply and sympathize with their cause so much that uh Hezbollah Iran and all kinds of forces will get involved on their side and America the great Satan will abandon Israel and in that case they have a very chance of beating Israel if if Hezbollah Iran team up and America's not there they're thinking about 50 100 years they will free their land from the the Jews that they that they hate and so viewed from that perspective Israel launching a big attack to get rid of them killing a lot of civilians because they use human the human shield method is a winning strategy potentially because like look how much look how much sympathy from the pr War uh they have gotten as a result of this almost instantaneously okay so they're not fighting a military war they know they have no chance they're not idiots they're fighting a PR War whereas Israel is fighting a military war and and in they're both actually winning at those respective Wars that they are fighting interesting have you had a debate with anybody about this yeah I had I had this guy Yousef munire who's a a very a a Palestinian activist with very strong Pro Palestine feelings on my podcast about this people can go check that out um he he's the only one that I've had uh on the other side of this topic and then besides that I had Benny Morris who was in the um Lex fredman debate isue I've had I've also had correspondence on email with Norman finlin but uh how was that did he yell at youil all caps yeah he called me a black shabas [ __ ] what does that mean which I didn't even know what that meant did you have to look it up yeah it's well it's it's uh I think on on on the Sabbath there are some uh people that will come in and do the lights for them cuz they can't touch electricity uhhuh and they call that a shabas [ __ ] cuz a [ __ ] is like a non-jew I guess so but it's the [ __ ] that helps you on the Sabbath wow and so finklestein called me a black shabus [ __ ] implying that I'm kind of doing the Dirty Work of the Jews as a non-jew which is which is kind of weird to go to a character attack like that it's not what he usually does an esoteric character attack yeah I was like I have to look this one up Jesus Christ yeah that's a guy who's playing Dennis Miller on you what what does that mean using references that like what the [ __ ] is he talking about yeah you got to look it up Dennis Miller used to do that like it was part of his stand-up routine right he would use references that like the average person is no idea he might not even Norman McDonald always famously said you know he doesn't know what he's talking about why does he do that crowd likes that that was part of his shtick of being the smartest guy in the room oh I hate that yeah that was well he was a good comic Dennis Miller was a very very good comic but part of it like if you go watch like his HBO special it's excellent it's very good ComEd but that was part of his thing it's like he was a schwarm me guy that was part of his thing and then he turned into a right-wing guy right after 911 9911 like Snapped him over I've never seen this guy Dennis Miller no really no is he still uh is he still around I don't know what he does now he was doing like right-wing radio for a long time and he became it was like amongst comedians it was famous that he like wouldn't make fun of George Bush because he was friends with him so he gives there so much material there there was so much material it was so fun but he wouldn't you know smoke them out of their holes yeah he was an odd duck you know and um I go to the seller all the time I see I see the up and cominging Comics it's it's so much fun yeah yeah there's so many great ones well New York has got a nice crop always I always great Comics I always try to go when it tell is there because he's oh my god dude he was in town he was in town at my club and like God it was like watching like a Hendrick like watching a master it's so crazy to watch yeah so good man it's so fun the way that his mind works is a complete Enigma to me the associations he makes he's so there's like there there are type of jokes where if somebody doesn't get the joke I could explain it to them in two sentences right a lot of a tell jokes I don't even know how I'd explain that but it's perfect yeah it's his style yeah and he also has a Cadence that's very intox that's right that's right yeah and he's just got this confidence of 35 years of standup and at the highest level and constantly working constantly touring constantly going up constantly going doing weekends places yeah he's a monster absolute monster such a joy to see it's such so great to see someone who's like at the top of their game it's just and you get the rub you get the rub being in the room you're like God damn I want to go right I want to get better I'm sure yeah he's he's the man yeah and there's uh quite a few guys like that right now it's a it's like this is a real golden era for standup comic comedy there's a there's so many great Comics the live right now yeah that are touring there's like [ __ ] 20 guys that sell out Arenas that's never happened before ever really not in the history of com so why is it a golden age I think the internet for sure the internet cuz people who maybe uh HBO wouldn't give them a special or Comedy Central would give them a special now they just put it out on YouTube yeah and then they get six million views and every's like oh my God and then they're selling out everywhere that's amazing yeah it's incredible how it's uh it's like just um gotten rid of the barriers between the the artist and the people yeah completely gotten rid of the barriers no more Gatekeepers it's a podcasts are the only Gatekeepers and everybody has a podcast and everybody goes on everybody else's podcast so it's it's just like a natural Network like an organic network instead of like a television network it's just a network of friends are you on like Tik Tok or Instagram reals at all I don't put my stuff on Instagram reals like I guess maybe I make a real every now and then but I don't like do you cons yes un consum Ian it's so I don't do Tik Tok but I do Instagram real sometimes unfortunately I'm in an algorithm where I'm seeing car accidents oh no yeah I'm seeing car accidents animal attacks like the Russian car accidents where they the dash cam that's crazy G yeah gas trucks falling down on people you murders you can see everything you can see everything on Instagram now and it's like it gives you the blurry thing it says uh you know sensitive content oh do you want to click it are you sure of course I'm sure he [ __ ] sensitive and so you're watching some guy you know stick some guy up in a in a liquor store and the other guy shoots him in the head you're like Jesus Christ yeah there's so much of it there's so much and I don't understand how that doesn't violate their terms of service like I don't understand how it gets recommended to me in the algor them work dude I've seen Tik Tok V live streams of people that look like they're in third world countries with like like a mother and her son that you would see in a commercial asking you to donate and they're just sitting there on a tic T Tik Tok live stream ask asking for donations yeah you can do that and it could almost it looks like it could be a human trafficking scenario like it's yeah and then right back to your silly videos it's absolutely jarring yeah absolutely jaring and you know you could anybody could make a Tik Tok account yeah you but that's the other part about it is you I've seen so many entertainers on Tik Tok and Instagram reals that are just brilliant in what they do maybe they do little sketches or whatever it is that they do that without Tik Tok they never would have they would have just been a funny guy to their friends right you know right right yeah well it's a strategy for a career now yeah you can really become a very famous Tik Tok person who make millions of dollars a year or you can just work in an office and [ __ ] hate your life right you know and there's a lot of kids today that have zero desire to do anything other than being an influencer that's right it's a a huge goal like Jonathan ha talked about it this like somewhere like 50% of the kids they asked today just want to be famous which is wild when I was a kid nobody wanted to be famous like nobody what's your goal Johnny nobody's like I want to be famous like maybe there's this one guy I want to be a rock star wow look Johnny wants to be a rock star that's crazy everybody else is just trying to get a job now kids realize that like young outrageous people who are fun to watch can make millions of dollars just making silly content videos y or you could be a guy like Mr Beast or you create your own Empire like what some young 20s and he's why would you not want to do that why would you not want to do that that seems like way better than working for some company that could just fire you with the drop of the Hat when you know a robot can replace you yeah which is what's going to happen to a lot of people in the near future yeah I think we're going to have there's going to be uh a mass loss of jobs like nothing we've ever experienced before in history that's what Andrew Yang was all about he was way ahead of the curb I he was mostly talking about automation mhm like you know but driverless cars and the like and he's right about that for sure but the AI thing is bigger than that because the AI thing is it consume creative Endeavors it can cons I mean could take over the job of writing for like Law and Order one of those kind of shows it's like good guy has to win in the end you got to catch the bad guy what did he do wrong like here's some scenarios and it could just write scripts for you yeah can you probably need a writer anymore and then with Sora but honestly do you think it will ever write jokes yes but as as good as he won't be able to perform them like David tell because I can't perform David tell's jokes right you have to be David tell to perform those jokes it's like there's a there's a style that he has that is uniquely his like Mitch Hedberg had that Theo vaugh has that there's some Theo Von's a great example there's things Theo Von says everything he says is funny if I said I would just seem like an insane person exactly exactly with him I can't stop laughing there's people that Sebastian manoso he's developed a style there's like a style that people he's so physical with his body yeah but there's also like a style of his outrage it's just it just he's figured it out and I watched Sebastian figure it out when I first met him he was really just starting out and he was nothing nearly as good as he is now if you know so will they be able to create one of those probably not no maybe I don't know I mean I'm not entirely sure that our brain is so sophisticated it can't be replicated I would agree I think that's really egocentric for to believe totally I think there's there's been so much denial of how amazing chat GPT is right from the start you had people saying oh this is nothing pretending that this thing that can pass the elsat get a perfect score in the SAT is not impressive like a snooze is absolutely ridiculous I don't know where that came from but I'm incredibly impressed by GPT and all the derivatives um I just I I do wonder if it you know like if if everyone starts writing with those things the audience will quickly absorb that subconsciously and look for something different I think you're always going to appreciate handmade things you're always going to appreciate a table that an artisan made you're always going to appreciate music that someone actually wrote themselves you're always going to appreciate expression from other fellow human beings because it nurtures us in a strange way you know when you hear henix play guitar it's not just insane music it's a 26-year-old guy who is wearing a bandana that's got acid in it and it's as he's sweating the acid is getting into his pores and he's doing this thing that no one's ever done before in front of this massive audience and everybody's experiencing it simultaneously like so it's it's more it's a person it's an experience a human experience when you're watching someone do something spectacular you're watching the Olympics you're watching someone doing them crazy gymnastics moves they hit the and they stick it you're like it's not just that it's impressive it's a human experience you're watching an actual human being do a difficult thing and whether it's a painting that someone made or a mug that someone created there's something that we're always going to appreciate about a thing that was made by a fellow human being but just for the sheer quality of a thing I don't know if the human mind is so unique that it can never be replicated and I I have a feeling it will not just be replicated but it'll be surpassed and it'll be surpassed so quickly that we'll we'll be confused as to how we let this [ __ ] thing make us obsolete I think it's going to be able to do every single thing everybody does better than we do it have you been looking into the Elon Musk lawsuit against open AI I don't know what's going on with that oh it's super interesting tell to me at least yeah all right so Elon started uh well was part of co-founding this nonprofit organization called open AI six seven years ago whenever it was he put a lot of money into it and obviously as you know the whole difference with a nonprofit is that they have a mission instead of a responsibility to shareholders they got to use all their money towards the mission whatever it is and the mission of open AI was originally to make uh artificial general intelligence human level intelligence that was not motivated by profit so that they could focus only on making it safely and open source meaning everyone can see the code so that they can harness the responsible energies of humanity to perfect it Elon was very passionate about this he was worried about all the downside potentials of of of AI so he funded this and then what they did is open AI made took a series of steps to essentially become a for-profit company and they they created a for-profit uh an LLC uh and a or a limited partnership which is for all practical purposes the same thing and they put that entity inside the nonprofit so that the nonprofit essentially owns most of that for profit so it's like hos being under a hospital yeah exactly exactly so uh wow so and then what happened is Microsoft got so what happens is with that for-profit now you can attract tons of investment because big- time investors aren't going to come into a nonprofit knowing there's no return unless they have a charity motive once you got the once You' got the for-profit you're you're 10 or 100 Xing the amount of investment you can get because you're promising people return so they raise all this money they get a ton of uh money from Microsoft who gets a minority share of the company Microsoft might own I don't actually know what they own but maybe like 49% of the company right so that open a can still make all the decisions but Microsoft owns a big portion of the company and so they create chat GPT and they make it Clos Source meaning you know no one no one can see the code and and essentially now just a for-profit company creating working precisely at Cross purposes with the original nonprofit and Elon says well this is like on its face this shouldn't be legal I invested money on the basis of you guys being a nonprofit making safe open source AGI and now through clever you know putting companies inside of companies you've made it into a for-profit and you you operate like any other AI company and yet you took all my money so on its face he has a very solid complaint uh and then he he basically said he would drop the lawsuit if they would just change their name to closed AI wow yeah um so what's the Steelman so the Steelman from their point of view open eye hits back and he on us lawsuit by publishing his emails oh oh yeah emails to show hold on uh appear to show the Tesla boss actually supported creating a for-profit entity yes I have to look at the emails again I remember they were not quite as damning for Elon as they were they were being put out as but there they definitely seemed like it was more complexity it says in late 2017 we and Elon decided the next step for the mission was to create a for-profit entity the blog claims Elon wanted majority Equity initial board control and to be CEO in the middle of these discussions he withheld funding we couldn't agree to terms on on a for-profit with Elon because we felt it was against the mission for any individual to have absolute control over open AI the post continues he then suggested instead merging open AI into Tesla in early February 2018 Elon forwarded us email suggesting that open AI should attach to Tesla as its Cash Cow in 2018 one email from musk reads even raising several hundred million won't be enough this needs billions per per year immed immediately or forget it mhm H that makes it more complicated right yes amid the refusal to Grant musk total control of the blog claims the SpaceX founder soon chose to leave open AI saying that our probability of success was zero and that he planned to build an AGI competitor within Tesla musk created his own AI company X AI last year we're sad it's come we're sad that it's come to this with someone who we deeply admired someone who inspired us to aim higher then told us we would fail starting a competitor and then sued us when we started making meaningful progress towards open ai's Mission without him the blog says yeah so I it seems like there could be fault on both sides um from my point of view it's it's indisputable that open aai started as a nonprofit and then cleverly became a for-profit now whether that's such a bad thing is a separate question whether it needs that funding like whe whether it's imperative that in order like first of all I mean do they think in terms of National Security because if if we're on a race to uh create artificial intelligence and it seems like we are and if the competitors or other superpowers where it would be absolutely terrifying if they achieve sensient artificial AI they have control of before us yeah it's kind of a national security imperative I would agree um so then are if they don't get the funding from a for-profit what so how do they do it then well that's that was their point so the truth is it may have just not been smart to start it as a nonprofit to begin with that's my guess is they went into that decision hastily and then idealistically idealistically that's right that's right uh and then quickly realized that they were going to be completely irrelevant to the world of AI unless they somehow became a for-profit and so they did it this way as opposed to just starting a new entity what's stunning to me about all this B just you know without even going into this dispute is the speed in which it's become ubiquitous the speed in which it's it's improved and the the potential that seems like if you're looking at it in you know this exponential rate of of increasing its power the way R KW talks about it it's happened so fast so quickly that it's terrifying for me to think about what 5 years looks like there's never been a time where I looked at technology and I said I am terrified of 5 years from now because I think the leaps are going to be so vast and so bizarre for someone like myself who grew up without answering machines I didn't have an answering machine in my house until I was in high school I remember the day we got an answering machine it was crazy someone can call you and leave a message oh this was nuts and then also there call uh call like uh you would You' be able to if someone called you would get like a no like de like someone else's calling hold on a second and you'd click over so you could talk to someone and they put the other person on hold for a second then click back like you're in an office this is madness and then it was caller ID so you couldn't just call someone right they would know oh it's Mike I don't want to talk to Mike it's like gave people oh it's a you know someone a solicitor it's and so to for me to see this change where personal computers started to become everywhere and then cell phones I was one of the early people to get a cell phone I was like this is crazy I could talk to someone I drive around and talk to people this is nuts and then it became what it is now which is just Madness Tik Tok and videos and vlogging and blogging and podcasts and and just streaming and people documenting every [ __ ] stage of their life and only fans and all this wild stuff that's out there now including just substack and all these different platforms for people to be independent journalists now which are excelling and in many ways exceeding the reach of traditional mainstream corporate owned news it's wild to watch it's happening so fast but this seems to me like the cliff like we're all moving really close close to the cliff but the cliff has no bottom and it's going to I think it's going to happen so fast we're going to be so overwhelmed by what these things are and what these things can do and they're going to get better so [ __ ] quick I think the only thing that's holding us back is computing power and once they really establish Quantum Computing when they they make it viable that you can have you know computers that are a million times stronger than what we currently have [ __ ] man yeah and these things are going to then if they you give them autonomy and they have the ability to fix their own code and write and make better versions of itself and figure out better ways to store power like what our limited ability to use batteries like but we've already found out that there's a Chinese company that's figured out how to use a nuclear-powered battery that's like the size of a silver dollar that you can put in things and it lasts for 50 years so you have a cell phone that's powered by a nuclear battery that never loses its charge wow I mean this is all coming down the pipe and AI is going to be able to say that and go I can fix that I can make that way better like I can make it so it's a grain of sand you know and and I can make it so it goes up your nose and you never have to do anything ever again use this yeah we're we're real close to some really bizarre changes definitely and I think that's one of the you know McKenna said this about that The Last gasps of a Dying civilization is like this like it's not no one's going to go peacefully into this next it's going to be screaming and flailing and that's kind of what our culture is doing our culture I think we anti I think there's a thing in the air there's a feeling that we have of great change that's terrifying that exists in the Zeitgeist it exists in we we're realizing and particularly when you look at like Biden being the president you realize okay there not one person that really has a grip on what the [ __ ] is going on and there's all these different factions competing for power and control there's all this money that's getting thrown around all over the place we have no say in it all this great change in the world and then we have robots that are they're they're they're figuring out a way to make these [ __ ] robots better and better and better and better and better and better and then within our lifetime maybe within five years that's with kwell things they're going to be able to have something that is as smart as the smartest person that ever lived oh yeah yeah I think that's right and it's going to be a thing that's right it's going to be a physical thing I'm an optimist about it in the sense that if I look back in history there are always so many reasons to believe the next technology is going to wipe us out and somehow we figure it out right the nule like if you go back to the 1940s it would have been perfectly rational to say there's no way our civilization survives the invention of nuclear weapons right and look we haven't survived it yet because it's a constant struggle we've just had whatever it's been 70 years of Peace of of Peace on that front but I don't think a lot of people would have predicted that and yet somehow resourceful people find a way and we find uh a a new uh what do they say modus vendi a new way of living and I I I have to have faith that with the massive changes that are going to come in the next 10 15 years with respect to intelligence where we'll no longer become the dominant entity in terms of intelligence uh I I have to I have to believe that we'll find a way to make it work to our benefit uh and not destroy us perhaps yeah I am I am uh I am always optimistic I try to be optimistic I know people that have made every preparation for the world ending in the next 10 years because of this issue yeah and they said don't don't save your money you know so on and so forth I don't know if that's gon to help you I don't know if preparing is going to help or rather don't prepare because it's all over right spend all your money now well I just have a feeling that it's going to be so overwhelming you're not going to be able to hide there's not going to be a damn thing you're going to be able to do if you want to participate in life you're going to be participating in life where we're dominated by a super intelligence we're dominating by a living God that we created and that if you just exponentially take uh artificial general intelligence if we achieve ENT intelligence that's far smarter than all the people that live combined it's just like this one thing and it can act autonomously it can do whatever it wants to do and it has this mandate to make better versions of itself well it's going to become a God it's going to it's going to make better versions of itself until it has control over matter until it has the the literal understanding of the creation of the universe itself it's going to get so So Sophisticated it's going to know exactly what happened during the Big Bang it's going to know how to do it it's going to be able to make its own Big Bang it's going to be able to create galaxies it's going to be able to harness the power of everything that exists everywhere because what what we're doing as human beings is taking all of the elements and all of the materials that exist here and formulating them in a way with the proper amount of energy that allows us to manipulate our environment in very biz are ways that no other animal can do but it's rudimentary compared to the power of everything that exists and all the resources of the Stars this [ __ ] thing is going to be a God and it's it might be How the Universe creates itself it might take individual cells these single celled organisms and through this process of biological evolution eventually get it to be this curious thing that figures out how to use tools and this constant thirst for Innovation leads that thing to make electronic things that are far more sophisticated than itself and then that thing becomes a God right and our idea of artificial intelligence I I try to call it digital intelligence whenever I can I even think that's not good enough it's a life form we're gonna we're we're giving birth to a life form and that life form is going to give birth to better versions of life forms and that's going to give birth to V better versions of itself and it's going to get so sophisticated so quick that we're not going to be able to keep up with it and if it figures out a way to do better Computing and have far more power and harness things like the atmosphere itself the the the heat of the earth like all all sorts of different ways it could use power that we don't need to burn coal and it's going to figure out Ultra sophisticated Quantum ways to achieve efficiency far beyond anything we could ever comprehend because we we are primate Minds we're limited biologically and it's not going to be limited at all right so I think if we get that God my hope is that we're not going to get it it's not going to be we're building it on Monday and it's here on Tuesday because if that's true then we're [ __ ] but my My Hope and my expectation is that we're going to build that God Brick by Brick over a period of a fairly long time and just like you would see the you would begin to see this the warning signs of an adult chimpanzee when it's a teenager or even a even a kid we would begin to see small problems before we saw big problems before we saw destroying the world problems and I would hope that in the tinkering humanity would be able to put on the guard rails before it's too big um such that by the time it gets really so much smarter than us we've aligned it with our own interests that's a wonderful way to look at it the problem is if I was artificial intelligence if I was some super intelligence I would realize that that's what people would look for so what I would do with without acting on any of my abilities continue to progress and to move far past a place where it could stop me and never let it know and it might be happening right now it might be going on right now it might be in the process of it right now and it might already be out of control but it's Gathering intelligence and Gathering Power and Gathering resources and appearing to look innocuous M and then eventually it's going to realize that the only thing that is in danger a danger to itself is US killer whales aren't a danger to Quantum intelligence you know the the [ __ ] octopus they're not it's us it's just us so we'll be a problem and we'll either have to fall in line or or it'll eliminate us and if that's what it decides to do in order to preserve all the other life on Earth and why would it need us we're we don't need cavemen anymore like you know there's talk about bringing back woly Mammoth there's no talk about making neanderthals true why is that cuz it's [ __ ] crazy it' be it'd be a problem for us it' be a problem they're violent yeah we'd be arresting them and yeah there'd be crazy violent things that are from a different time I mean if you got like a pure version of one somehow or another like if you found like some frozen like they found that guy that W what's his name ay is that his name was the guy that they found that they named there was a um a a hunter who uh he had like an arrow head stuck in his back and oy yeah the Iceman so they found this guy completely Frozen in a glacier he apparently was involved in some sort of a fight and as the glacier was receding they find this guy and it turns how old was he Jamie see what it says wow so somewhere between 5,000 and 5,030 years ago this guy fell he was about 45 years old and he was completely Frozen so now if they have one of those and they take that guy but it's a neander they find a frozen neander somewhere and they bring that [ __ ] into a lab and they take that DNA and they clone it and they they make some sort of a neander just like they're doing right now with um with the woolly mammoth they're like really close that's awesome to cloning a woolly mammoth I think that's so cool it's wild I mean it's wild I mean imagine seeing one of those [ __ ] things walking around You' be like holy [ __ ] and so they're apparently they're using some of the jeans of an Indian Elephant and their woolly mammoth DNA and they're going to apparently they're going to be pull this off like within the next few years they will have a baby woolly mammoth wow which is bananas I mean that's just bananas and then they can also they can already make AI generated videos of woolly mammoths that look perfect you see that yes like cinematically beautiful just absolutely it's incredible and they do it quickly MH and this is just really recently yeah you know I was watching um Harry Potter the other night great movie but the CGI is so obvious it's amazing how what was Harry Potter like 2001 yeah probably so Harry Potter from 2001 to 20 2024 it's a different world man a different world like the when he's on the the thing he's flailing around it looks so fake yeah Lord of the Rings too like I want to show people Lord of the Rings who haven't seen it but it kind of missed the window it was so fantastic at the time at the time it was but it looks a bit hokey now the the Orcs look hokey yeah well that's just how it goes you know uh when my kids were young uh uh my wife was out of town and I said hey I go do you guys want to watch a scary movie that's not really scary and they were scared they were like like I think they were like three and five and they're like how scary I'm like it's not scary at all it used to be scary in 1933 but now it's corny and you're going to watch it you're going to think it's so silly so I showed him King Kong so at the beginning they were like super nervous like King Kong comes out they're like oh my God my daughter's like looks like a porta potty just like it looks so dumb cuz it looks so corny today but back then if you saw that movie in 33 you're like this is insane a giant gorilla is kidnapping that lady and climbing to the top of a building this is madness it blew people away they couldn't believe it when Fay Ray was in that fake hand like what are we watching this is crazy and you're going to get in our lifetime to the point where you're not going to know what's real new stories anything you you think false flags were amazing in Vietnam I what are they going to be able to do today you're not going to have any idea what's going on I mean the yeah the the the videos of humans talking now are they're reaching the N like 99% of the way to perfect yes my friend um Duncan Trussell just did a podcast with his friend Johnny pton and Johnny pton pretended to be like a former CIA agent they changed his face they changed his voice they turned him into a totally different person he's saying like ridiculous [ __ ] and when you watch it you're like what is this and when he told me it was Johnny pton I'm like how and this is just like consumer level AI trickery that Duncan's using for his podcast just like amateur stuff and it's crazy to watch yeah it's CRA we're we're going to get inside of our lifetime where you're really never going to know do you remember during this I don't know if you know you weren't alive during the Reagan Administration they um I think it was the Iranian or someone spliced together a bunch of different recordings of things that Reagan had said and put together some audio audio piece that it was something he never really said and then they showed it on television this is how they did it so they had like a thing they said they took pieces out of all these speeches and took all these words and pieced it together to have Reagan say something that he never said I was like wow this is crazy you're not going to know what he said cuz someone can do this imagine now we we just watched Hitler speak English that's crazy you know I mean and that's clumsy you know it was pretty obvious that he wasn't really doing that but we're we're going to get in our lifetime to a position where we're not going to really know what's real and what's not real and then you're going to be able to plug into those things where you're not going to know if it's real or fake while you're in it that's going to be that's the whole idea behind simulation Theory and the people that will argue this that really understand it that understand probability Theory they think it's already happened they think the probability of it having already happened of us being in a simulation are higher than the probability of that not taking place yet I had David tralmer you know that guy philosopher on my podcast he wrote a whole book about the simulation Theory uh really smart guy he I think he gave me a number he gave me like 24% or something 24% likely that it's a simulation yeah and I and I asked him to you know the million-dollar question is would it matter if we were and I had always been assuming the answer is no it wouldn't really matter because we're still sensient conscious creatures we still cry and we bleed and we suffer even if we're fake it's like the love I feel for my family is real so whatever but his response to that was yeah well the one way it could matter is if it is a simulation then we got to tell them don't turn it off Jesus we got to tell them we like being alive or make it a little nicer I not make a Gaza namas yeah that too yeah it's it's a compelling thought because the idea is that if we continue on this path we're going to reach a point where whatever this virtual reality is is IND discernible from regular reality and when you see that guy with the neuralink that's Now using it to move a cursor around on a screen you see the baby steps you see pong when I was a kid pong came out and it was the craziest thing ever you could play a video game on your television we blown away this is nuts and it was just black and white and there was like a little stick figure on like a stick on this side and a stick on that side and the little balls like just a few pixels and you're moving the the thing up and down to make the paddle go up and and you only have a very limited amount of movement but we were blown away that's what this is that's what this is that's what the this first initial steps of this guy moving a cursor around and playing video games with his brain because he's paralyzed with neuralink we're going to get to some point where it's going to give you an experience you're going to be in Jurassic you know uh Argentina and you're going to see T-Rexes you know you're going to see Velociraptors running around you're you're going to literally be in a dinosaur filled jungle and you won't be you'll smell it you'll smell dinosaur [ __ ] you you'll hear them Roar you'll be able to walk up to them when they kill a brosaurus or whatever the [ __ ] they did you'll be able to see all that it's going to be wild and it's going to happen in our lifetime and it's going to be Recreation at first and then it's going to be people's entire lives if it's good enough people are already doing that with Call of Duty how many people spend way more time playing Call of Duty than they do playing life yeah I'm glad I missed that some somehow when I was 12 I just stopped playing the video games and never went back I'm really glad you got good instincts yeah people suck a lot of time and it's way more fun than regular life yeah that's the problem it's so enjoyable and you you're playing this thing and you're fully engaged and your adrenaline's pumping and there's no consequences if you lose you know it's like there's so many great characteristics of it and you could do it anytime you want you get home from a club at 2 o'clock in the morning go you know I [ __ ] play some Call of Duty W and now you're you're online engaging and you're just getting all this sensory input and and it's you you shut it off and you're just like here you feel terrible when I when I play video games when I was done I felt terrible oh yeah especially for a few hours feel horrible drained and exha I that's what got me to stop yeah you feel terrible oh yeah you also feel like what am I doing with my life yeah you feel you never feel awesome after you play video games for 10 hours no if you're a grown man with bills you're like what's [ __ ] wrong with me yeah Jesus Christ but it's going to be way better than that it's going to be way better it's going to be virtual it's going to be in a 3D space and they've already developed these 3D um these it's sort of like a treadmill but it's completely omnidirectional and as you move it moves have you seen it it's incredible it's so it's a floor so you could have a confined space like this room and the floor literally anticipates which way you're moving you can walk naturally exactly close to naturally like treadmill type naturally but close enough right that it's going to be and then they're going to get better at that it's going to get to a point where they don't have to do that anymore you can just feel like you're walking and it just shuts you off and just and just go in there and everything is happening in your mind including all your your movement your your Sensations you're going to be able to feel things it's going to be bizarre man and people are going to choose that over regular life that's probably how AI is going to keep us from breeding no that's actually the same thought I just had I mean as this all this stuff gets better what is to uh what's to entice people to start a family and live in the real world very little if it gets to that point yeah especially people that you know what is the statistic now it's something crazy like 90% it's like 10% of all men uh are attractive to 90% of the women something I think that's always been true though right yeah but now with like social media it sort of accentuated people's exacerbation about what they look like and you know it's like just everyone is got a sixpack and you know and everyone it's like people are so hot you know and there's all these Fitness influencers and then and then you're just completely unattractive yeah and that's how they get you to uh to pump up your lips and do all this crazy stuff and maybe they can't do anything that most guys don't even like right but maybe they can't do anything to you maybe they maybe you're beyond that maybe you're just like genetically unfortunately you this you got a bad roll of the dice right well you don't have to compete you can just put on the [ __ ] headset and live like a god and live like a a Roman soldier and have the best [ __ ] time or be miserable and filled with anxiety and depressed or you put this thing on and it floods you with confidence because it literally in in in interfaces with your human neurochemistry and so it gives you the feelings of excitement of conquest of everything of lust you're going to have relationships you're going to be able to do all these things inside this artificial environment there's going to be a woman be like heroin that doesn't kill you heroin that doesn't kill you worse yeah way worse cuz it's going to require all of your time and you're going to have to shut off probably to go to sleep like biologically you're going to have to turn it off but you you probably can't wait to get up and do it again yeah and there'll be there'll be a movement against it too kind of like there's vegans against eating meat there there'll be a set of people that say we're we're tapping out we're living natural we're not doing any of it yeah unibomber yeah and I think that'll be a big movement too oh yeah there'll be a big backlash against it yeah there there'll be a small population of us that survive yeah and they'll live in the mountains and they'll probably make it and they'll probably survive and you one of the things that might end it is if artificial general s intelligence doesn't get to an ultra powerful point before a natural disaster because a natural disaster could flip the switch on everything and that is probably most likely what ended the Egyptian Empire the the people that built the pyramids and the the people that built go Beckley Tey and all these really ancient incredibly sophisticated structures that we're baffled by today I think they had a super high level of technological sophistication and they were wiped out and there's a lot of evidence to back yeah you were talking to me about Graham Hancock last time yeah remember and the younger dras impact Theory and it's this is all backed up now by science it used to be purely speculation that this is until they found gockley tape they didn't even think people were building things that sophisticated 11,000 years ago but then they found that and they they is a hard date because it was intentionally covered up 11,000 years ago and they know that by carbon dating all the soil and all the like this is someone did this it's all it's uniform at this particular time so when then now that they know that and then then they started doing these core samples and they found out that there's really high levels of aridium and um with this stuff called nuclear glass and it's the same stuff that they found during the the Trinity uh experiments when they would blow up atomic bombs there's this thing that happens with this immense impact with the sand that creates these micro glasses and they find it all over Europe all like giant swats of Earth were covered with this stuff and aridium aridium which is like very common in space but very rare on Earth and there's like a layer of that [ __ ] and there's a layer of that [ __ ] that's around 11,800 years ago wow and they think we got molly whopped and sent back into the Stone Age and it kind of makes sense if you think about the barbaric history of people back in the day like they were probably the most Savage of people that survived whatever the [ __ ] happened and then it probably took a good solid 6,000 years till like Mesopotamia arrives and then Babylonia and sume and all these ancient civilizations that we think of today as being the birthplace of mathematics and of written writing but it's probably a redoing of civilization interesting yeah I think that might be what saved like look that's what saved this planet from the dinosaurs if if that thing that hit the Yucatan 65 million years ago didn't hit and they didn't wipe out the Dinosaurs the little shrew would have never become a person right right and that's where we're at right now so it might get to the point where AI is like about to [ __ ] everything up and the universe is like not yet boom and a five mile wide asteroid hits Los Angeles wow and then you know all powers out everything gets rebooted did you see that movie Leave the World Behind yes I thought it I saw it twice actually terrifying that's it could totally happen that way yeah terrifying yeah yeah when when they realize it's a civil war just engineered very cleverly mhm you know yeah yeah it's wild fascinating movie is it f fascinating to me that so many people harped on this one conversation that that daughter had with her father in bed that you can't trust white people did people focus on that yeah oh I didn't see because Obama produced the film ah okay so people were calling it like this anti-white thing all right well listen there everybody is not trusting anybody MH they're literally in the middle of the Apocalypse like what are you talking about of course one of the points of the movie is that it drives people against each other when they're in that scenario exactly and for a young girl who like seems like kind of a wokester yeah who was with her dad she might think that way she might think that way of course how you write characters endorsing it NE necessarily you can have your own opinion about it but exactly yeah like and then there's the other guy that Kevin Bacon plays who's this uh crazy prepper who's been ready for it the whole time oh God that character is haunting because at the end of the movie Ethan uh Ethan Hunt right Ethan Hawk Ethan Hawk Ethan Hawk begs before him you know supplicates get on his gets on his knees and he says I'm a useless man yeah you're a man that's prepared I'm a useless man and I'm coming that gave me chills yeah and I had a friend I have a friend who's like kind of half a prepper and after the movie I tell you when it all goes down I'm going to come to you and say I am a useless man remember all the times we had yeah take pity on me it's it's really terrifying when you think of how fragile our infrastructure is like that um that bridge gets taken out by that boat the other day oh my Bo terrible boat loses power hits immediately thousands of conspiracy theories of course you know this is done on purpose that's sophisticated or it was done because of Dei or something people were saying that I saw on Twitter yeah I heard that one that it was done to kill our um ports and our our ability to bring in stuff because the the bridges were down and you know that's what I'd heard I heard a bunch of things that but but people need to understand that same boat had a collision in 200 16 it failed in 2016 and collided with I think it was a dock or something there's video of it there's video of that boat just losing control so it's like a [ __ ] shitty boat that they use over and over and over again to transport Goods across the goddamn ocean right those things fail you know and if it fails and it slides right into a bridge but then there was like oh the black box was missing data and it's like people always like love to jump immediately to the most sophisticated engineering of a natural disaster or an an unfortunate thing and immediately cause it call it to be have caused by a false flag or by terrorist I think it's the same reason why for 99% of human history people thought the the weather was controlled by God because the way we're built is that something can be completely random like the weather but we want to see it as planned we we'd rather see something as planned but terrifying than thinking there's no plan at all so that's why I think people always go to it was planned it was planned it was planned right and back in the day they would say the gods are angry yeah yeah like if lightning hit you you [ __ ] up what' you do what' you do bro God just smok you you just God Smite you down yep that's what G give him a virgin yeah got we got to do something yep yeah we got to sacrifice some people that's one of the creepiest things about ancient civilizations is how much sacri yeah how quickly they went to human sacrifice as the be solution like who's the first guy to think of that good question solid question the wildest one is obvious that temple in Mexico oh yeah yeah t tanon yes yeah where they killed some insane amount of workers the people that built the temple when it was done they sacrificed something insane I want to say it's like 80,000 people over the course of just a couple of couple days brutal what find out what what the actual numbers were yeah but it's like what like sacrifice why like was anyone checking to see if it worked you know right you couldn't question it's like you can't question co Things become Things become Doctrine in all human societies we're a creature of tabos we create tabos by Nature yeah we love them we love forbidden things and this one was the the nuttiest one I mean I I never have heard of a mass sacrifice like this one at the completion of one of the most spectacular construction pieces mexo I went when I was a kid I remember there's a section where if you stand at the right angle and clap it claps back at you yes it's awesome yes it's amazing I've uh I've been to the one in um chichin oh I think that's the one I'm thinking of is that different than tan Tian yes chichin is Aztec okay excuse me chichin is Mayan and uh Tino dlon is Aztec okay but uh I've been to T tlan it's it's crazy what those folks were making they're making some really intense sophisticated structures and then they got wiped out by European cooties yep it's amazing how the world would be different if if you just change that variable of I know yeah Native Americans are able to sustain European germs be a whole different kind of country a whole different world hemisphere yes I mean what would it be like in 2024 if the mins thrived and the Europeans never came across if they never settled in North America wild you know sometimes I think that one of the reasons so many third third world countries don't Thrive as much is because all the technology that was in invented at least you know barring ancient Egypt invented during the European Enlightenment Industrial Revolution all of this stuff that's made the world so much better that's gotten rid of famine that's gotten rid of so many diseases um it all became associated with the colonizer in in their mind and so so a lot of countries have rejected it for the wrong reasons or have been slow to adopt it whereas if you had a situation for instance like Japan where Japan was never really conquered or colonized by a Western Country and at a certain point in the 19th century they had the ma restoration where essentially a certain a contingent of Japan took over the government and said look these Western powers in Europe they're inventing all this amazing technology we're going to we're going to become irrelevant unless we adopt it too and they just rebooted the country and became an industrial Powerhouse which is what allowed them during World War II to dominate all of Asia because they just made a conscious conscious choice to emulate the West in the domains of Technology but also with this extreme Japanese work ethic yes yeah that's a major factor no doubt but the psychology of it was that they they didn't necessarily re they were able to accept Western technology except that the West Was was uh Beyond them at that point which takes humility and I think part of the reason you're able to do that is those aren't your colonizers so you're able to look at it more objectively whereas if those those are the people that just colonized you how easy is it for a human being with an ego to admit that we need to adopt all their technology or or we're going to become irrelevant that's actually a much harder thing to do so this is to your point if a lot of countries had been left alone completely never colonized uh I think it would be much more easier for them to make a pivot like the mag restoration where you just have we've got to get on board with with the Industrial Revolution with liberal democracy with all this stuff because they wouldn't have that thought in their head that's that's what the colonizer did they' be able to take the good things from from the people who colonized more easily that's an interesting thought um I would be more fascinated to see what would happen to them if they had like the the Mayans in particular if they had been allowed to evolve in isolation like just without the intervention of the Europeans they had already constructed these insane buildings with stones that mimic the cosmos like where would they be a thousand years later 2,000 years later like what would their culture be like imagine if no one had ever visited the mines until 2024 and then you you go you go and visit now like what are these [ __ ] up to yeah you know I mean we were still making [ __ ] out of wood and Goofy houses that caught on fire and these [ __ ] dudes are building these temples that mimic the constellations yeah yeah absolutely pretty wild but it's very disputed oh the uh the the killing the people thing yeah uh for the consecration of the Great Pyramid of te how do you say it Tino Lon how do you say it tooon I said t i uh in 1487 the a Aztec priest sacrificed 880,000 prisoners over the course of four days the Aztecs usually sacrifi prisoners of War these volunteers criminals and even their own so what what's the um disputed part about it Jamie uh there's not a lot of evidence that that many were done they said that like this number of 20,000 every year is across all of Mexico I saw someone else just say on another the Aztec sacrificed 20,000 people every year there's no like uh talk about what happen like what they did with those 80,000 bodies like that be a hug problem to deal with uh prisoners right but they might have right if they were real does it say they definitely killed 20,000 a year that across all of Mexico right but maybe they were good at that but that again what would you if you did 20,000 in a day yeah you dig a pit buddy you light them on fire I don't know just I mean there's no evidence of it is what it was saying interesting well what evidence would there be sacrifice people just that many right but there has to be some sort of record right what is the reason why they came upon the 80,000 figure in the first place I don't I I don't know interesting Spanish account claims that more than 880,000 enemy warriors were sacrificed in a 4-day ceremony and yet no evidence approaching 100th of that number has been found in the excavations of Tino lung I guess if they threw them in a hole they would have dug up the bodies maybe unless they perhaps unless they started a funeral P like an enormous fire and just burned everybody you know I don't know what their methods of disposing bodies on they sacrific my assumption would be that that would Mass gra they would say like this is what we used to do to them too right here's pictures of it or something yeah huh but yeah it's just it's just disputed as all the number does come up I'm seeing 5,000 20,000 how about more than one they definitely sacrifice more than one person to appease their gods it's w it's a wild choice and to get everybody to go along with the rain dances are a lot more a lot more peaceful a lot more peaceful yeah a lot more fun I'm more of a rain dance guy Coleman thank you very much man it's always great to talk to you I really appreciate it great talk to you to you're a really unique thinker and you have a great perspective on things and I I always appreciate talking to you man my pleasure and tell everybody one more time your book by my book the end of race politics R You by books and I'm so glad you did the audio version of it yeah my my voice wasn't scratchy like today so it sounds good you sound good today oh thanks all right uh thank you uh give out your social media yeah yeah cold xman on Twitter uh and my podcast is conversations with Coleman all right beautiful thank you bye [Music] [Applause] everybody [Music]

Channel: PowerfulJRE

Views: 917,821

Keywords: Joe Rogan Experience, JRE, Joe, Rogan, podcast, MMA, comedy, stand, up, funny, Freak, Party

Id: wNYtG8iZ71E

Length: 190min 23sec (11423 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 03 2024