Joe Rogan Experience #2113 - Christopher Rufo

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day you were just telling me that uh Washington State uh re criminalized or is Oregon re criminalized drugs yeah that's right um this just came out the last week but um Washington State rather Oregon state had pursued the defund the police policy the decriminalized drugs policy and there's now this dramatic reversal because guess what when you let people shoot up heroin on the side of the road snort meth uh intense uh downtown Portland um it actually is not good for society and there's such this dramatic push back and I was actually shocked to see it that Oregon lawmakers all Democrats of course um said you know what we've gone too far let's bring it back to the center and I think that's something that's very good it's definitely very good it is a little shocking that they figured it out it just doesn't seem like like when you go and drive through Oakland for example it doesn't seem like anybody's trying to put a cork on that they're just like letting it be insanely chaotic like the areas where they have the shanty town set up and people have tents everywhere and these makeshift structures how look at what point in time do you stop letting these open air drug dens exist where people are just cooking meth in front of everybody that just seems so insane so it's nice to see that Oregon's like hey let's hit the brakes yeah is it all drugs now did they just put everything in the same category which is also quite insane yeah I mean no it's not all drugs obviously say it right here yeah it says the measure makes the possession of small amount of drugs such as heroin or Methamphetamine a misdemeanor punish punishable by up to six month in jail it enables police to confiscate the drugs and crack down on their use on sidewalks and in Parks but what about what are the other see the thing is it it basically what Oregon did is decriminalized almost everything the weird thing about drugs is you throw them all into one blanket you know you throw you cover them all with one blanket drugs because caffeine's a drug alcohol is a drug there's a lot of drugs that we're accustomed to to using and I'm not necessarily in favor of those being illegal and when you um you add in heroin and methamphetamine to something that we already accustomed to like alcohol or caffeine it's like what what do are we you know why are these the same things like why don't just individually say fentanyl is unbelievably bad for you marijuana not so much let's like figure out which ones are okay and which ones are not instead of just saying drugs 100% I mean you just have to do a really simple calculation you say is this drug correlated with extreme social pathology does it obliterate the individual does it cause social problems social chaos um and then you could categorize them very simply yes and no okay you have alcohol caffeine marijuana you can have a functioning Society where those are used yeah but you can't have a functioning Society where people are foiling fentanyl um and especially if you look at the the the cities it's wrecked these cities the big problem though is that the political in the United States has lost the a willingness and the capacity to say no um this is something we've all seen you know we're raised uh a generation of kids where like saying no and imposing limits is something that you can't do it's this idea of liberating ourselves from all limits but you know some limits are necessary some limits are important and so I think we're starting to finally see the consequences of obliterating limits and then now we're starting to say you know in a reasonable way we should start reimposing some guardrails well that's one of the things you find out when you're a parent that seems counterintuitive but one of the things you find out is that children are happier when you impose limitations on them which sounds so crazy but they are happier and they have less anxiety apparently obviously I'm not a doctor because they're by having structure to life it doesn't seem like everything is like if they're in charge like oh my God I'm [ __ ] 12 and I'm in charge I have no idea what's going on and I can stay out late all night the world's chaos which it kind of is in some ways but by imposing structure on them it gives them comfort and I find that's the case with human beings I find that the people that I know even artists even Comedians and wild folks the the the people that have structure in their life like have families and children and have like workout routines or things that they enjoy doing on a regular basis that they're very dedicated to those are the happiest people they're the healthiest people they're the people that seem to feel like there's a purpose to life the purpose is your loved ones your family your community the people you hang out with the stuff you like to do whatever it is pickle ball whatever it is that gives people like happiness and structure and this idea that having no uh no limitations and complete freedom and you know you want to to be just just able to like Fly Away on a whim like that doesn't promote happiness like what are you trying to get out of this life don't you want it to be as enjoyable as possible we've all had bad times they suck we try to avoid those we try to have the good times but that can be applied to a society as well the way you raise children can be applied to a society like you need structure you need rules you need love and compassion you need examples of good behavior you need all of those things and when you let people [ __ ] cook meth in the middle of the street that all goes out the window imagine being 12 drive by a [ __ ] drug Den every day on your way to school you're like oh my God what do I have to look forward to yeah I mean that was my life and my experience and observation we moved out of Seattle in 2020 my wife at that time two kids um because of this precise phenomenon the politics had gone totally sideways well Seattle 2020 was particularly insane it particularly insane that was the the the the area what was it called the glory of the Chaz Chaz ja but I remember um our oldest son uh was in kindergarten first grade at the time and uh we would be walking to school a few blocks up and we'd have to be avoiding schizophrenics avoiding tents avoiding people shooting up avoiding people just [ __ ] in the street walking walking just walking so walking and so you know you're trying to to kind of navigate your kids around there was a homeless encampment about 100 yards away from the school with probably 40 or 50 guys cooking drugs stealing property causing trouble and then you talk to the administrators at the time hey this is a problem I don't accept this I don't like this and they say oh well you know we have to be compassionate to our houseless neighbors it's like no we don't this is a danger to kids and it got so bad that they were teaching the kids what to do when they found hypodermic needles the playground oh my God this is a problem I don't want this as a parent I want you to prevent them having to to pick up hypodermic needles and you know and it's like a group of people that are so it's like compassion also has to be limited yeah you have to have compassion within reasonable limits and well you're you're dealing with people that'll just burn it all down if you just allow you say arson is no longer punishable they'll burn all the houses down yeah these are insane people they don't have anything why wouldn't they just burn it all down just for funds yeah yeah it's it's so hard to understand how it got this far you know I and I love when they use terms like the houseless like you already have a word for it yeah like stop trying to dress it up with a new word you already have a word for it the word like this one's been driving me [ __ ] crazy lately minor attracted persons yes um I saw two politicians in two different speeches talk about protecting minor attracted persons you're talking about pedophiles that's what we're talking about it must be that these people have no children it must be I don't know if they do they're monsters this idea that you are going to minimize the harm caused by evil criminals who steal children's lives ruin their lives forever and you're just going to call them a minor attracted person and try to say that it's an identity to what for what reason to what end like why would you want to do that I I mean the end is uh it's not polite to say but it's quite clear you look at even something that has been propagandized at length drag queen Story Hour you say wait a minute let's just break it down to the basic facts these are adult men dressing up in women's clothing yeah dancing and Performing for other people's children that's like should be a red flag for people but you they've couched it in this language like you're talking about euphemisms uh very very kind soft sounding words tolerance inclusion but you're concealing from people the fact that it's like ah actually no this is kind of uncomfortable um and like I wouldn't want to do that well not only that do you want to talk about sex with other people's young children no not a million years like the thing you'd want to avoid like most in life there's no reason to talk to them about there no reason they're not interested in it they're little kids they're not interested it's the adults that are interested so the question is why why are adults so interested in this what is the ideological goal the personal goal um and I find it they're they're influencing children because like all groups as much as people hate to hear this everyone wants you to join their group it is a natural human instinct the idea that that would not apply to gender identity that that would not apply to sexual orientation is crazy it applies to phones it applies to like people have Android phones are like dude switch over look you use the Spen dude you switch over look at my AI features dude you don't need iMessage you know there it's with everything and if you don't think that happens with uh sexuality or with gender you're out of your mind it's a natural human characteristic why would it be why would it be absent there when it's present in literally everything people use Windows computers [ __ ] on people use Apple Computers you should just try Windows man there so much more variety they want you to join yeah they want you to they want you to be a part of their Church they want you to be move into their neighborhood I'm guilty of it too I got a bunch of people to move to Austin for sure it's like it's a thing to people do it's a thing to people do especially if they found something that's awesome but this idea that a guy with [ __ ] heavy makeup on dressed like a tart like if that was a woman woman I'd be like what's wrong with that lady that's she's not dressing like a teacher this is crazy what is she doing why is she dressed like that is that a costume is she in a play she's not in a play okay cut yeah yeah let's uh pump the brakes on this [ __ ] lady's got to be insane does she have any kids well actually she doesn't even have a vagina you know she's got a penis like what hold the [ __ ] on Fu now we're getting to a whole another level of this what are we doing here what's going on like but but that opinion is completely normal completely mainstream held by virtually everyone but people are silent about it right because they've been stigmatized into believing if you offer any criticism of the ideology of gender Theory or the practice you are somehow a bigot you're somehow uh homophobic you're definitely far right you're you're a farri extremist and you're lumped in with KKK you're lumped in with like Stormfront people a 90% opinion yeah and so you know what I think is so important is to stop playing the game and to say you know what I'm going to tell the truth and I'm going to take the slings and arrows because I know that the public opinion is on my side and people fear speaking out but they need representation and that to me is uh the name of the game well you are really good at explaining everything that's happening and really good at like laying it out in a very easy to understand pattern like where it first was introduced into the education system the blind spots that people have towards how Marxism works even especially like during the time of the 1960s and the 70s when a lot of the stuff was gaining Mo momentum in the United States because of the anti-war movement they were completely ignoring what happened in the ggs they're completely ignoring what happened in Cuba they had this very Rosy perception of Communism which always leads to military dictatorship always there's no evidence of it ever not leading to that it's the it's like the idea of like you know I know everybody dies of rabies but I don't think I'm going to die of rabies yeah exactly I'm just going to get bit by [ __ ] rabies kills everybody it's like one lady who didn't die of rabies because of a very novel treatment where they have to put her into a medically induced coma because rabies is such an old disease and it's such an aggressive disease that your immune system can fight it off but it can't keep up with it and eventually the rabies wins and it always wins so by putting her in a medically induced coma I don't know what about the the biological process of it but it somehow or another shorted out her body to the point where it had the resources to effectively battle the rabies because she was just completely immobile and in medically induced coma so she actually was one of the very few people ever in history to survive rabies oh I mean Marxism Marxism will put your whole society at best in a medically induced coma and at worst you get starvation boogs uh Mass suppression and so well it kills the society is what the point is the point is the best case scenario is that you somehow through a medically induced coma [ __ ] survive it yeah there's no improvement no you're probably wrecked for the rest of your life I mean it's probably such a horrific disease that everything's compromised after that when I was in my 20s I traveled through a lot of the former Soviet Union uh socialist republics so C Kazakhstan kyrgistan Central Asia and Mongolia and other and other countries that have been ruled by the Soviets and what happened and I think there is a of course with caveats in a much lighter way here is you have an ideology that seeks Conquest it generates failure and then it seeks more conquest and so when you travel through those countries it is the most depressing gray dismal haunted kind of places you can be it's these Soviet blocks housing it has enormous rates of alcoholism you see people strewn on the road freezing to death in the winters there's no economic productivity there's no culture the Soviets had evaporated their religions and all of their old customs and so you have human beings that have been totally um extracted from any of their cultural Traditions they've been totally um uh uh annihilated as far as their economic possibilities but you still have you know three four five million people and it's it's what happens when your Society is devoured by ideology and so the ideology that we're seeing in American institutions is of course different we're blessed with this country to have a much more robust system and history but it's it's functionally the same and and to your point in the late 80s or late 60s and early 70s you had true Marxist leninist radicals the Black Panther Party the Communist Party USA The Weather Underground and if you look at their literature their propaganda materials from that time and you compare to what's happening in let's say Buffalo Public Schools their BLM curriculum I actually did this I looked at the Black Panther Party pamphlets they were selling to foment Revolution and the Buffalo Public Schools curriculum you know it's like pretty close the ideas are the same of course they're softened they use the nice language about Dei or or what have you but um you know we should take ideas seriously and bad ideas have bad consequences for societies and it's a small amount of people people that are having an enormous influence on indoctrinating kids and that's why you're seeing kids today that grow up with this version of the society and reality that we live in that so doesn't jive with people that are older than them who didn't grow up in that system who are like what are you talking about like it's not that bad like the things you're saying are insane you're freaking out over almost nothing and not paying attention to the important things there's important things going on in this world but it's not micro aggressions yeah it's it's not that Google shouldn't show images of white men when you pump in the AI and ask who the founding fathers are it's they wouldn't even did you see what they do with Nazis did they make multiracial Nazis multiracial Nazis they had an Asian woman nazzi it's inclusive yeah it's [ __ ] bananas it's bananas it's it's literally like a movie it's a Mike Judge movie it's idiocracy yeah it's a very strange thing where logic has just been blown by the wayside because the very people that are in charge of disseminating education and and and challenging young minds have completely abandoned that task and are now wholesale focused on promoting this ideology that must be adhered to and none of these people exist that are teaching these things none of these people exist in the world that we are currently existing in which is the outside of University World these people exist in this bizarre world where they get indoctrinated and educated and then they indoctrinate more and educate more and they stay in this system and they're not out there in the world they're just not but that ra speak for us but they don't speak for us they don't agree with us and yet they're ruling the institutions that are educating our children that are forming the values that are creating the very vocabulary that we use you know the used to be that you'd have a quirk tweeted out you know Marxist Professor who would be smoking a pipe in an Ivy League school and you could say well that's fine the kids go to go to Princeton and they get two years with the the the Marxist wack job and then they get out in the real world the problem is that that ideology that was confined to a relatively small part of society where it was tolerated because it added some kind diversity of experience or ideas has now extended to institutions that really do matter and so the question is if you're sending your kids to school the majority of the parents don't like what's being taught and it's being taught anyway what kind of system do we live in is that Democratic governance is that the representation of the people if we're paying for it we're sending our kids through it but we don't have um a a stake in and and and the control of the values that are being formed in those institutions you know I think it it's a very serious question it's not trivial to say we're kind of Beyond some of those limits and some of those uh uh constraints that make a democratic form of government meaningful when the bureaucracy rules and it's pushing ideology against the will of the majority of the people we're in a kind of scary position uh in in our country and it seems like it's it's willing participation by the masses as well because they feel like they're a part of change they feel like they're a part of imposing these IDE is on the rest of the world and the rest of the world is going to have to catch up and they will be the ones that were correct because they were on the right side all along and it's very strange to watch it play out because it kind of seems Unstoppable at this point it's it's very disheartening like you see it with da like there's an issue going on right now in Austin where they they have this Progressive Soros funded da who's just letting everybody out of jail yeah like would would you do rape people let him out of jail murder someone let him out of jail it's [ __ ] bananas this idea that microaggression straight to prison they're talking about the dropping crime but it's because crime's not reported in a lot of places now because the the crime went up so high and they defunded the police it's like in Austin they need they're 500 cops down and the morale is down because of the defund of police and because you know cops like there was I think there I believe there was 21 cops that were brought up on aggression charges during the black lives matter protest 17 of cases I think have been dropped I don't know I'm sure if that find what the here I'll send you an article you can tell me if that it's uh in Barry Weiss's substack today or her uh her newspaper sure but this is a a real problem where you see the results playing out you see that they're negative and I mean kudos to Oregon for you know correcting course but you see it playing out in with crime and with prisons and and here's my number number one beef with this all this effort to do that all this effort to let people out of jail no cash bail what about reform what about putting all that effort into reforming people how come that doesn't exist what about funding reform inside the prisons what about going to all these impoverished drug ridden gang-ridden communities and doing some good how come there's no effort there if you're a real Progressive you want [ __ ] progress you don't want people who are already [ __ ] up by the system and violent criminals habitual criminals and just let them lose to victimize everybody else raise everyone's anxiety create more crime and violence and and have no solution to it whatsoever that's not the solution it's very unfortunate those people are in that situation where they are habitual criminals and I'm sure a variety of factors beyond their control contributed to that without doubt right sure but that's the solution's not let them out the solution is stop that from happening in the future and there's no effort whatsoever put on that there's no conscious thought of like how do we get at the beginning of this yeah and that's a almost impossible question to answer because it is so complex there are so many contributing factors but I actually don't think it's totally necessary to do that you actually can just say here are the behaviors that we tolerate here are the ones that we don't tolerate and then you lay out a series of simple consequences and so what we're seeing in El Salvador which of course is ongoing it's fraught with potential problems but what they did is essentially lock up the 1% of the El Salvadoran population that were the Violent committed gang members and and Drug Runners and they reduced the murder rate by more than 90% it used to be the most dangerous country in the world highest murder rate now it's per capita you know depending on how you measure it one of the safest countries in the hemisphere the lesson is that that it is actually a vanishingly small number of people that commit the the the large plurality or majority of crimes and so it's not that you have to have um a kind of sou searching and endless uh kind of Naval gazing and and philosophizing it's simply to say you know people who are a direct threat to others that commit violent crimes that maybe have 20 30 40 a hundred uh convictions in their criminal history um you know cannot participate in society Without Limits and it's a it's something that people have been um scared to talk about uh but I think that that is ending because when people start to feel a sense of danger in their daily lives they're going to start to break through some of those tabos and to say hey wait a minute yeah they're letting people out of jail uh who are violent criminals doesn't seem to be working yeah and and and I and I think we're there even in Seattle they elected a republican City attorney they elected a moderate city council a moderate mayor um and and the big cities especially the West Coast cities are are are waking up to this citizen rage these are the most prosperous cities in the history of the world but they can't keep the streets clean they can't keep people safe well they can when ging ping comes to town that's right yeah how Wild is that one that dude is so wild because what he does is so blatant yeah like the Panera Bread thing the Panera Bread thing the Panera Bread thing is amazing you almost have to respect it you almost have to respect it it's so bra it's like explain it to people wait hold up yeah the Panera bre so it's like you're going to raise the minimum wage for all fast food restaurants to $20 an hour except for Panera Bread uh because the Panera Bread Guy is his friend but the way around that to make don't look that obvious is places with bakeries but the what that that's not what is the I mean why why a specific way of cooking there is no rational justification there's no rational justification for it uh and and and so it's almost like oh it says Panera is not Exempted from California's fast food minimum wage law after all on February 28th Bloomberg reported that bakery chain Panera would be exempt from California's ab1 1228 law a law that raises minimum wage for fast food workers from $16 to $20 an hour start 81 so why um is that how is it not exemp that's a hell of a fact check I didn't know that yeah but they were saying that it was bakeries were exempt so what is exempt uh it said okay Governor Gavin told the Los Angeles Times paner would not be exempt from the law the spokesperson also did not Acclaim the blueberg piece which cited sources close to the matter that new some push for exemption that applies to businesses that bake bread and sell as a standalone sell it as a standalone item calling the report absurd so is it a fake story or is it something that they corrected course quickly yeah yeah roll up to the top so where's the initial report let's find the initial report because why would Bloomberg spread [ __ ] Bloomberg is a financial paper right yeah that's right that's not something I don't think it would be you you really can't do that if you're running a financial paper it's not like the New York Times the New York Times can say Israel bombed the hospital and 500 people are killed and put on the front page even if it's not true and everybody just assumes it's true because it's the New York Times but they can kind of get away with that yeah then they still exist but if Bloomberg started doing [ __ ] like that if Bloomberg started lying about businesses and what businesses would do are tax laws that seems insane how paner breed ducked California's new $20 minimum wage this is Bloomberg Governor pushed for a car out that's perplexed industry observ and benefited a donor so how do we know that this is true do we have to subscribe the dreaded pay wall second one second okay no worries we'll subscribe you ow we owe you Bloomberg but it's um there must be something to it and it's so hard with that guy because when you just look at the way he praised uh Biden I would never run against him a man of character you know like to like I'm old school it's God he it's like he's playing someone in a movie that's a crazy person it's like that's how that's how like a really good actor would play a complete crazy person whose insincerity enough that smart people recognize it yeah but that like really dull-minded blue no matter who people are like he's a winner that guy he's got my vote I'll tell you what he can win he can win this for us but the problem is is that that's not wrong I mean Gavin Nome is a fearsome political talent and his willingness to do or say anything and do it with a straight face with that sincere voice and that cool you know swoopy hair I mean I love that he keeps getting busted too I love that he got busted during the pandemic eaten inside with no mask on he just [ __ ] the shamelessness on that guy is like it's like a laboratory specimen I mean it's actually is an interesting guy and fascinating person in that way I'm not a fan I disagree with him politically but I don't think he should be underestimated because those of us who can see through it yeah I think are actually a pretty small number of people well uh I think you're probably right and I think there's also people that just want a really good quarterback for the team that's what I think I think they barely care who the president is and I think that's Pro obvious with Obama excuse me with uh with with Biden um not with Obama at all the opposite with Obama Obama was like the best example what we have to offer but Biden is without doubt anyone can beat him if if you were just comparing competence you know someone who you would trust talking someone who you would trust to go meet foreign dignitaries there's zero he has he's no one he's going to beat he's not going to be a single living politician but since he's a top a top of this team that people are like this team is our team no matter what like we're all in I'm a [ __ ] 49ers fan for life yeah that's what these people are doing and they literally don't care they'll Gaslight you into a coma did you see that piece that someone wrote the other day how uh his age is his superpower did you see that [ __ ] I didn't see that Panera Exempted from California's minimum wage than to new some link okay and this is Snopes what does Snopes say here's them explaining what the article was and then I'll skip to the paragraph where it talks about do they uh do they debunk it it's this is no no I don't I didn't get through all the article but it is explaining what okay the confusion exception LED okay here's according to California state law set to a take effect April 1st 20124 a restaurant chain with more than 60 locations nationwide that produces for sale bread as a stand Standalone menu item does not count as fast food the confusing exemption led to controversy following a blueberg article published February 28th reporting that the fast casual chain Panera Bread is dodged an upcoming minimum wage increase for fast food workers in California to $20 an hour the article connected the bread exemption to billionaire Greg Flynn a frequent donor to California governor Gavin Newman's political campaigns who owns more than two dozen Panera breed locations in the state in a statement of Snopes however new some spokesperson Alex stack denied any such connection played a role in the law and even suggested the exemption would not actually apply to Panera the governor never met with Flynn about this bill and the story is absurd stack said well they don't have to meet they could talk on the phone our legal team has reviewed and it appears that Panera is not exempt from the law whoops yeah the legal team reviewed it after they so there is an exemption right right so that's where I was going to get to this okay so how would they not be ex the provision exempting restaurants that make and sell bread as a standalone item from the rule was included in both the 2022 and 2023 bills the exemption as we mentioned above is real and was achieved by not designating such restaurants as fast food however nome's office said a legal analysis determined Panera like other chain bakeries does not fall under the exemption because it mixes its dough offsite instead of fully producing bread on the premises of its retail locations oh my God interesting but that makes sense that makes sense cuz they're just s it's like subway right Subway doesn't make the dough either that's right so this but that why would you be able to pay people less if you have an Artesian bakery that requires more skill is the baker's uh Lobby that powerful or the like the opposite yeah yeah I mean well the the the Bakers are the ones who' be lobbying for more money that's what I mean yeah the the actual Bakers yeah so that I mean they but even look at Snopes Snopes has done a fact check on my work that actually got debunked PolitiFact has done it Washington Post they fact snopes is Wild is wild but a lot of these fact check sites they've actually had to retract claims against me where they say oh you know Chris rufo in his reporting said X Y and Z it's not true and then I provide them the documentation the evidence I raise a stink about it and then they reverse course and a lot of these like that's such a mess of facts and who did they reach out to to verify Governor nome's office right who said it's absurd yeah of course he's going to say it's absurd cuz he got in trouble for it so but I think the point about Biden that you were making is is is really instructive because Biden is like the Weekend at Bernie's president I mean it's like they they wheel him around and so what you get a a glimpse of is the the Democratic Party Machine what are their priorities what are they going to put on the teleprompter what is the staff level going to decide as important and then they kind of wheel Biden out there to kind of kind of stammer for a couple minutes say the talking points and get out and so we're we're seeing what's important to the party as a movement the opposite is Trump trump is you know uh a unique individual figure the party is following him look these are the two models that we have and increasingly the voters are saying we want to have a rematch what do you think well it's it is interesting that he's so frail that he's transparent right and he's so transparent to the point where uh the White House Press Secretary accidentally tweeted as him from her account you saw that yeah right which is wonderful I love when that happens cuz like thank you I was wondering and now I know you know I I was really confused I kind of had a feeling it was you you know and but is has there ever been a worse White House Press Secretary she's it's how how did she get that job she's so bad at convincing people there's there's a bunch of like hardcore ideologically driven left-wing pundits that are on YouTube that could do a way better job and they would be [ __ ] psycho about it would be psyo about it and the left would be like like she's not the one like she's [ __ ] terrible at it she gets called out for stff all the time she gets set up for stuff all the time like Peter ducey's Always setting her up he talks to her du is amazing he's he's so good he'll provide a little bit of this but then what about that and you know she's just awful at it and and she's only really challenged by one person right in the briefing room and still manages to bungle it on the daily well it's just there's so much Madness that she has to like cover up it's what and look this is again a kind of brass tax way of talking about it but it's what happens when you put identity over competence yeah everyone knows like explicitly and then when you hire someone it's a big celebration of all the different intersectional identities the the the candidate has yeah you know this is our first you know black female I don't know lgbtq not really sure yeah um and and so the the the problem with that though is when you're not making a decision based on competence Merit Excellence you're buying into it at the front end on that different hierarchy of decision- making but then on the back end you can't do anything about it you say well you elevated this person for identity you can't fire that person because of incompetence unless they steal women's clothes from the airport yeah unless exactly unless they get a little sideways you know that guy was my favorite but the The Harvard Store is this exact phenomenon and um you know after the 107 attack Harvard kind of reveals the ideology in the institution and then um another reporter and I obtained the plagiarism documents we were the ones who broke the plagi just for people that aren't aware for maybe so this can be Standalone uh what Christopher is referring to is that Harvard the this the president of Harvard and the president of MIT and Pen they all had this meeting where they were grilled by who which was the stonic yes who grilled them about using anti-jewish hate and is that hate speech to say death to the Jews and their answer was essentially if it's actionable yeah then it's hat it was the most Bonkers bizarre mental gymnastics and also with that one woman from pen done in the most condescending way oh yeah it's like she is so accustomed to being the boss so accustomed to people like accepting her word and not dealing with the outside world that she doesn't realize how [ __ ] insane what she's saying is yeah I the question was if if students were uh calling for the genocide of Jews would that violate Harvard's policy yes and the answer from claudian gay the former president was it depends on the context it's like I mean oh you know and so that is a moment where things that had been uh obscure especially for people people on the center left suddenly became clear yes um and so this caused all sorts of chaos predictably um you have donors dropping out you have alumni Furious and then uh a little birdie sent uh another reporter and and me a document showing that actually Claudine gay you know great scholar of Harvard had plagiarized dozens of passages in her PhD thesis and so in this context of this big fight you know you get a document like this and you say this actually reveals the heart of this conflict and so published it obviously causes a huge Firestorm but the question is the same it's to say to Harvard okay Dei is the de facto highest principle of the University now that's clear but your motto for the last you know 3 400 years has been Veritas truth and and we put them in a dilemma where they had to choose one one you either choose Dei or you choose truth which one are you going to sacrifice and I think as a country the reason that story drove so much attention is because that's where we are politically that's where we are on policy that's where companies find themselves where are we going what are our values and we have this competing set of values and for me as someone who look I'm I'm I'm unabashed I'm a I'm a political person I try to drive political change um I think framing the question clearly so that people really understand what's at stake um is just the beginning part of the process of getting sanity back yeah and I think people are waking up Jamie why don't you shut your mic off because Carl is snoring up a storm over there Carl while you were talking I was here yeah geez Carl is that boring Yeah Carl gets bored quick he's only four months old um but the the Curious Thing to me was that most people in until they saw those videos weren't aware of how far it had gone and and then they're like okay now I kind of get it and there's been a a very very big reaction since then of people realizing how insane everything has gotten I think that this is something that um came up like when Jordan pet Peterson first started doing my show which was I think when was Jordan's first appearance was it 2015 2016 somewhere in then when I had um seen his story and and seen these videos of him being interviewed explaining to people no you don't understand if you impose this legislation that makes it a hate crime to not use someone's preferred gender pronouns this is not going to stop there it's going to keep going and going and going and going and you can't let it happen and he's right and back but back then the pushback was so fascinating cuz people were like why are you having this guy on your show to talk about this thing that's happening only in these universities it's never going to go anywhere but now you look at it 8 years later and it's [ __ ] everywhere it's everywhere dude I so one of the things that I do I'm a trustee at a public university in Florida new College of Florida Governor Dan santis appointed me and a number of other reformers to take over this University uh replace all of the leadership and then turn it into a classical liberal arts university it's in Sarasota it's a beautiful campus the tuition is less than $7,000 and we want to turned it into a place where uh conservative families can send their kids and feel like they're getting a good education um but when we did this what we did is we we came in we replaced the leadership we abolished the Dei Department we terminated the gender studies program uh and then we said you know we're not going to comply with these ridiculous pronoun rules and so the old Dei director uh and then her allies at the ACLU and elsewhere um actually filed a federal civil rights complaint against me so I'm currently under investigation by the by federal civil rights bureaucrats for refusing to call this woman by Zer pronouns Zer not you know okay trans okay man woman okay whatever Zer and it's like by the way Federal indictment imagine imagine for even just refusing to call this person he her people are have always been rude are we going to like legislate against rudeness are we're going to say that like if someone decides to call me Mrs Rogan I can I can I get them arrested and locked in a cage cuz they're being rude to me cuz they're calling me a girl if you are a member of a protected class yes that's where it's going that's where they'd like it to go and look I have to spin up lawyers thankfully the university is handling it but I mean this is not trivial and the the the what Peterson you know Jordan Peterson great what he brought up um illustrates this point if they can get you to lie about something trivial they can get you to lie about anything mhm it's a simple sales technique you get people in the door you get them to buy some small item you get them to kind of cash up and then you work them up the chain to a bigger purchase or a bigger commitment or a bigger ideology it's how Cults work yeah um and so like I learned this as a kid my my father's Italian from Italy and we went to Rome uh to the Vatican this this sales guy it's like everything about sales and persuasion I learned like 10 years old um watching this guy he came up he said oh you know sir uh it's a beautiful day I had a new grand child that was born let me give you uh this beautiful St Christopher metal or St St Joseph medal um to celebrate this and as soon as you take it you know you're hooked because he's going to sell you the commemorative Vatican coins for a hundred bucks or whatever and so this is the ante you know once you put in the ante you're playing the hand and so this stuff is like it's rage bait for the right it drives headlines it drives outrage it drives you know some some kind of momentum ratings ratings but what it's not driving unfortunately is a substantive push back legal administrative policy and and and as far as uh uh kind of deeper cultural changes but I'm very concerned because these are just these gambits where they make and once they stick then you're in it's very hard to roll back look at the military you have all of these uh you know men masquerading as women that are now suddenly elevated in the military hierarchy this is not trivial we're the most powerful military in the world we maintain uh you know kind of International Peace and it's like now the highest concern is trans no not I don't think that this is uh how we should be making decisions and I don't think that we should be submitting to the original lie you should never submit to the original lie because if you do you can never successfully push back again it's it's certainly odd that they're pushing that it it you know this is where I get so confused because if I really want to go full tin foil hat conspiracy I would say well if I was a foreign country I would be promoting this as much as possible in any way I could I would be funding organizations to do things that would uh destroy cities I would be funding uh universities to continue insane policies I'd be teaching them to kind of things that they taught people where that woman do you remember you saw that woman who talked to Josh Howley and uh he was asking I think it was like can men get their periods and uh and she is actually laughing why she just to point out I just want to point out what you're saying is transphobic and opens up trans people to violence like what I think she was a Stanford law professor uh she was some somewhere yeah might have been Berkeley yeah but it was whatever it was it was like what did you just say what did you just say and why did you say it that way you think you're so accustomed to being in your bubble that you don't recognize how gross it is when you giggle before you say something I just want to point out what you're saying is transphobic and opens up trans people to violence like some some men can have periods but this is this is the dominant culture in HR departments K through2 schools universities government bureaucracies that is the the social game that has been established and so you know when we took over new College of Florida it was the most left-leaning University it's basically the Evergreen it was The Evergreen State of Florida it was the the the student population was more than 50% trans queer and non-binary more than 50% more than 50% what is the odds of that in terms of like the normal account when they do if they get a random group of one 100 human beings in there's a bit of a disparity there uh you know especially because like non-binary is fake it's not a thing it's it it just doesn't exist you could be nonb yeah I maybe I am you can be you just you say it you just say it I knew a dude who used to say it used to date only girls that was his that was his strategy yeah it's like it's like a con it's a con you you're part of the feminist your lbgt exactly it's little cuttlefish yeah you know it is like a it's a strategy 100% and it works maybe at the initial but there are negative consequences yeah there's flaws there's flaws and then once women figure out what you're doing they don't respect you anymore but what happens so we go to the university and you know we're the new bosses the governor gives us a mandate to to to do significant changes and reforms and I remember I took some of my guys we we kind of landed on campus the first time student protests death threats you know SWAT team mobilized to to to protect us and I remember meeting with the old administrators you know know and walking in and and and and these are these are people that're just wagging their finger in my faces in my face rather fingers in my face they're saying oh you can't do this you're opening up the community to violence um you're this blah blah you can't host to talk on campus Because all these all the same stuff you're talking about and then I think like all of you are about to get fired do you not understand the situation that you're in your finger wagging is not going to work anymore the governor is tough as Nails he told us before we took over if you're not driving massive negative headlines if you're not if you're not if you're not getting flak um you're not doing your job I'll back you up 100% go in and make the change but what I realize in that moment is that the people who have created little nests of Power with this ideology have never been challenged no one in a meeting says actually this is a stupid idea right we should get back to business and so for me it was this remarkable realization that we've created this social and psychological pattern within our institutions where they're like fragile brittle um uh uh unhinged because the most passive aggressive the most ideological the most kind of nagging person ends up winning uh and if we're going to have better institutions we have to have people men and women that go in and just say no no more [ __ ] no more games no more ideology we have a serious job to do we're going to get it done and if you don't join the mission you're out pink slip you know and so that's kind of what we did um you saw the same thing at Twitter when Elon took over Twitter these are the hard decisions that we haven't made in a long time that I think are are are are desperately needed I I think so too and I think that what they're doing by allowing this culture where every Ang anxiety gets Justified and Amplified you're you're just creating more anxious people you're creating more [ __ ] up kids you're you're turning the whole world into this uh unfixable systemically racist chaotic scene that you have to go out and amend and you have to amend it through Dei and you have to amend it through equality of outcome and you have to amend it through tax the rich and like the the the whole thing behind it is just so unhinged and how many of those people if they had gone to a place where they were met with intellectual challenges by motivated professors who are not ideologically driven who could have taught them important things about life that they would remember and apply to the world as they go out and try to make their way we're not Preparing People for that because the people that are preparing the people have never done that and it's a giant part of the problem it's like someone teaching you how to do a thing that they don't do yeah unless they're teaching that's what I say about drag queens unless they're teaching you how to be a drag queen I'm not interested but that's what they're doing I mean they're they're doing that of for sure it's a model thing the drag queen comes in uh with a position of status Prestige admiration it's presented this amazing you know life path and even the drag queen theorists if you read their academic papers which is not everyone's cup of tea but I I I I've made the sacrifice um they say very quer very clearly and very queerly um they say we are um uh training kids to move uh into the uh queer ideology the ideology of queer Theory the academic discipline but also for um uh kind of other ways of knowing creating a you know one of the phrases they use is a sight of queer pleasure um and and it's like they're not hiding the ideology that's driving this um uh if you if you if you dig far enough and they really say they say we need to abolish the heteronormative traditional family because that's oppressive having a mother and a father in a nuclear household environment is a form of racism transphobia whatever all of the different you kind of social ills you could imagine and so we have people that have no sense of responsibility we've inherited some good and some bad you're born into the world in a tragic state of being your society and your tradition and your history is some mixture of good and bad I think on the whole our history our tradition is on net very positive very good still problems to solve that's a kind of universal human nature but what we're training kids to believe is that everything behind them is evil all of the structures that have provided a sense of discipline and meaning and purpose should be demolished and they should be replaced by ideological communities I mean that to me is is is evident in the outcomes we're creating a a generation of anxious depressed suicidal confused kids that have been deprived of all these structures that could actually help them along um I've seen that across the board in my reporting in my work as a documentary filmmaker in my own personal life and so we have to start first by I mean assessing your own situation what do I do with my kids right and a lot of people are asking that question right now I don't know about you but when I grew up if you were a upper middle class professional class household your parents you know bought a house in a nice neighborhood enrolled you in public K kindergarten and you kind of went up it was set it and forget it mhm that's over parents are finally starting to say hey wait a a minute I actually have to look into this I want to be careful and considerate about you know where I'm sending my kids and and and what kind of life I'm raising them uh to live yes and there's not a lot of good options that's what gets confusing and for a lot of my friends whose kids are uh about to go to high school and about to go to college you know they're making these next steps and towards adulthood it it's it's it's really scary to them because they're like look your kid can go down the wrong [ __ ] road man they can go down the wrong road and not be able to self-correct get caught up in momentum and not realize that you're not contributing to any good you're you're just [ __ ] things up worse and that none of this unhoused or home free or whatever you want to call that's not helping anybody all this language all this verbage it's not helping anybody and you you have to [ __ ] work hard to get by in this world and it's important it's it's an important fact facet of being a human being you you have to learn what your capabilities are you have to learn how to push yourself you have to learn to do things that make you uncomfortable you have to learn that and the only way you [ __ ] learn that is by going through it if we protect kids every step of the way from any sort of difficult thing at all lower math scores because people too many people aren't graduating so this must be racist let's lower the scores let's uh let's just pass people [ __ ] it we don't want to be bad people let's just pass people instead of teaching them it's hard to learn [ __ ] it's hard it takes work that's the whole reason why it's so impressive when someone is really well read like wow that guy put in the work it's really impressive when someone knows a lot of stuff it's really impressive when someone's really good at something well why is it impressive because we know it's [ __ ] hard to do it's that simple if you want to develop human beings that have potential and have and can reach their full potential in this life and be a fulfilled human being you got to teach them how to work hard that's part of the pro the process it's unavoidable and if you don't have that facet if you don't have that as a core tenant of how you view the world you're [ __ ] up 100% there's no way you're going to get everything out of life without hard work it's just you'll be anxious you'll be depressed you'll you'll feel lost you won't feel like you accomplished anything you all feel like it's been handed to you you'll be a trust fund baby you'll be [ __ ] it's not good for you you have to work hard and so you have to overcome including emotional harm you have to go through [ __ ] you have to go through bad friendships and bad relationships and and bad co-workers and bad employers you have to go through that it's part of the process it's how you become a human being and you can't protect people every goddamn step of the way we're just going to create a bunch of grown-up babies who are screaming in the streets stop oil now blocking the highway with signs painted with oil where in sneakers made with oil every [ __ ] thing they own was driven by a truck that was powered by oil it's insanity and this is what we've got and people look I I I'm in that world of words ideas publication it's a pretty easy life in some ways right you know you're doing reading you're doing writing you're doing media um but I have a lot of friends uh that are you know live in my small town that do actual hard work you know they're doing working in the oil business they're working on commercial plumbing they're working in actual real things that that we depend on but we take for granted right and those things are actually hard super [ __ ] are super hard it takes a ton of dedication a ton of skill and it's the reason that those of us who are privileged enough in the real sense of the word can do what we do we depend on this entire infrastructure of the actual physical world and so um I get endlessly frustrated with people who have these ban oil oh ban oil our whole society collapses instantly yeah everything that you do is vanishes in in 10 seconds and so it's like we've created people with not only no connection to the real world around them but they have no connection to their own nature as human beings I mean these are people that don't know what it means to be human they're just kind of symbols of ideology they're they're they're like you know you look at those videos and you're like these are not people who are uh making even conscious decisions these are kind of Puppets as part of some agenda as part of some mimetic ideology that is um nihilistic at at its heart and that's where I think we're going if you hate your Traditions you hate your history you hate your economy um you hate your your own skin color you know you have no sense of values and that's what we all want at the we all operate on a sense of values whether it's conscious or unconscious and when you try to wipe away all all all existing values as somehow oppressive or racist or patriarchal you're dooming people who need to grow up in a world where they know you know North from South yeah they know up from down yeah um and so you know with my own kids that's what I'm trying to do is is is you know protect them uh to the extent that's necessary create good influences create some structure and then prepare them to fight uh because life is a a fight life is a struggle they're going to confront uh very difficult things as they grow up and you know and then at some point you know you hope that you prepared them enough yeah and when you're looking at the difference between the world of today and the world of just 20 years ago the change is so quick there's never been a moment in time where so much of society collapsed so quickly like what year was it was it 2020 that we had the highest jump and murder ever the same the same year we had the defund the police th this that's scary that's scary because that's the opposite of we where we expect if you look at like pinker's work on on violence over time you you see that societies are trending in a very positive direction at least we were until 2020 and that this one change that that just because it was just one year but that one year was just three years ago kids okay the another thing like that could do that again especially when you're dealing with even more people who are released out into the world with these radical ideas especially the people that are inclined to believe that violence is a necessary aspect of change and these are ironically the same people that that don't want anybody to be armed it's it's all so wild it's so wild because the if you wanted to create a perfect recipe for a collapse of a society you would have a president who's not there you would have a society that is run by [ __ ] maniacs in the educational institutions that when antifa commits violence somehow it's mostly peaceful but yet when anyone else does it especially if anybody else does it in any sort of a right-wing way that is everything you can throw at it transphobic racist sexist homophobic whatever the [ __ ] you could say it's everything wrong with the world like this is a recipe for a civil war it's a recipe for chaos it's a recipe for a complete collapse of everything that's around us if you just go from what happened so quickly in 2020 it's not hard to imagine if you could bring yourself back to the time in 2020 to think this is never coming back and it's going to be like this forever and it's going to get way worse because if it can get like this where people could just smash into stores and loot that's what I started seeing that's one of the things that got me out of California I watched these guys smash into this this clothing store and and steal everything by the way all white kids um and I saw down in Santa Monica or something it was in Woodland Hills and I I saw um there was a a a Target there that got uh targeted too that they lit like a dumpster on fire and pushed up against the door there was a lot of [ __ ] that people weren't getting caught for and it was like right after the George floored riots so the um the the cop cars in burning on the highway were an image burned in everyone's mind still and I was like oh I know how this movie plays out I'm getting the [ __ ] out of here like that was my first thought I was like I need to figure out how to get out of here like this is I can't stay cuz this is only going to get worse and if you don't get out now and you're going to wish you got got out when something happens to someone you love we got to get the [ __ ] out of here this is bad and the it's not hard to imagine that our society given the current situation and given the current influences it's going in that direction and if I was another country I'd be [ __ ] pumped I was looking at what's that lady's name Rachel whatever it is the the Admiral first female Admiral Sir or Madam Rachel LaVine yeah Madam yeah wonderful hilarious and this other one that was uh some recent transmilitary person who was saying we should all put our pronouns in all of our emails even if it's obvious like shut the [ __ ] up yeah shut the [ __ ] up you you how come something that used to be considered a mental illness just 10 years ago is now at a precedent that now it's a valuable asset now it's an important part of our community now it's not like if you found out someone was suicidal would you you want them in charge of the nukes you wouldn't right well you know just on paper the amount of trans people that are suicidal is much higher than everyone else like isn't it something insane like 40% it's something crazy like that what what are you doing like are we ignoring facts and statistics if you know that someone is a bipolar schizophrenic and you got them working on a gun range she say hey harry we just pulled your file and uh you [ __ ] fly off the handle and you you have uh 113 violent episodes since you're a teenager give me that gun you [ __ ] get out of here you can't work anymore it's like putting Kanye in charge of like an airwing in the Air Force or something like well I don't know about that yeah it's just nuts where we have decided that listen I have full sympathy for someone who has gender dysphoria I've met many people that I truly believe they have somewhere in there they are a woman and they got stuck in a man's body and I think that's real and I think that's always happened but but when you make that more powerful than just being a normal person more preferable than just being a normal person subject to less scrutiny than being a normal person just a regular like I'm not saying you should discriminate against trans people I think you should just like everybody be whoever the [ __ ] they are but don't tell me that I'm supposed to ignore all the other things that could be at play say if you are a biological male inmate and you decide that you're a woman and you want to transition to women's prisons which in California 47 men have done don't tell me that just because you're trans like I'm supposed to abandon that like I'm supposed to ignore that sex offenders could just walk into a women's locker room with an erection and everyone's supposed to ignore that like what do you do you're you now you are [ __ ] up the the acceptance of trans people CU you're saying that trans people are going to come along with all these sex offenders which is not really true there's a lot of the trans people that aren't sex offenders they're just trans these other people are taking advantage of this [ __ ] massive loophole that you've left in here and you're victimizing female professional athletes female college athletes you're you're jeopardizing scholarships for those athletes you're doing a lot of things that [ __ ] up biological women and there's no consideration for that at all yeah I and look at the this kind of sorority house I think is the probably the best example of this phenomenon where you have some you know 62 male that is now bunking with a house full of women young women in a sorority house somewhere and look obviously you know this guy's a pervert that full stop that is a kind of patently obvious thing right exploiting it they're they're manipulating it you should certainly consider the possibility that he's a pervert I think it's a at at at the minimum a big bright red flag that is waving in your face but the question is an Institutional question you know who are the you know the fathers of these young girls The deans of the universities the university presidents it's like hey wait a minute like accommodate this person try to talk to this person figure out what the deal is assess whether it actually is kind of a real threat or not um figure out some alternate arrangement for this person but especially if the young women are telling you we don't want this we're uncomfortable with this we don't like this get this person out it's a failure on our social institutions that we haven't developed uh any kind of method for solving this problem well it also shows our oppression hierarchy that we have always protected women from sexual predators unless that sexual predator identifies as a group that has a social hierarchy above biological women which is a transwoman and that's where we're at yeah and it just shows that this is cult thinking we're in a cult this is a doctrine that could have been created in the top of a mountain by a wizard it's nonsense it's [ __ ] nonsense and somehow or another it is the norm in a lot of universities and it's [ __ ] crazy and these women that have to deal with this [ __ ] that's it's [ __ ] nuts that people aren't insanely outraged and that it's not stopped immediately people are scared that that's the common denominator to all of these things but the problem is the rebound of that is equally horrific cuz the rebound of that is that people have enough and then when people have enough and they find out there's this biological male that's being housed in this women's sorority and this biological man maybe he does something to one of those women that person there's going to be vigilante justice and that's the last thing you want we want to avoid that by having sensible policies now and head off these problems before they balloon into something that is unmanageable and so but you know if it's not already again people are scared to speak out you talk to folks that are you know I I used to have this idea that oh you know there's the concept of [ __ ] you money once you have a certain kind of net worth uh you're untouchable uh you you have you're kind of immune to to to social consequences you can do whatever you want that's not even true I talk to a lot of folks um of of you know considerable means and not all of them but many of them are also scared because there's status and Prestige concerns family concerns business concerns and so it really is up and down the line people are scared to speak they're scared to tell the truth and because there are real social consequences for doing so real real consequences across the board it's not just social there's Economic Consequences there's there's you know there's consequences in terms of your own personal safety yeah there's a lot a lot of weird [ __ ] is going on that people are just tolerating and it's so strange for me for you know I'm 56 years old I was born in 1967 I lived in a different world and you know I grew up in a world with no internet and so to watch this world change the way and to be a part of the internet now and to to have existed in both worlds is a very fascinating contrast because I get to see like how old are you 39 okay so you don't know [ __ ] you don't know [ __ ] about the pre- internet days I didn't get a cell phone till my senior year in high school oh you poor baby but you had a computer at home though huh yeah we had a computer and it was attached to the internet it was attached to like AOL yeah yeah that's something um the kids today like the 20year olds They Don't Know Jack [ __ ] about no internet they they have full 5G everywhere they exist and they're always on they're always on they're always on they also know where everybody's location is because they use snap map they're all snap mapping each other so they know like oh my God she told me she was going to go to Becky's house and she's over at Debb's house like like surveillance of your friends can you imagine it's also it gets you very accustomed to the idea that you have no privacy which is a a reality that we will soon soon face and the problem is also that the same people that are involved in pushing these psychotic policies they're not just the Educators they're also these institutions that recognize the power Dynamic and the amount of influence that you can have if you can get people to adhere to these things you can get them to do something really stupid like submit to a social credit score system which you would attached to a centralized digital currency now you've got communism and it's like that it's very quick and just like people self-censor censored on on Twitter and self-censored on you before Elon Musk and self-censored on YouTube because they don't want to get demonetized people will start doing that in regular Society they will do that because you don't want your social credit score system to to drop and it could be something as simple simple as not using Zer not using zer and all of a sudden you get hit with a federal charge of not using Zer and now you are uh being tried for discrimination and if those [ __ ] psychos are in charge you might get convicted and now all of a sudden you've got a real Soviet Union style goog situation in 2029 the United States of America with Admiral LaVine as our first female president yeah yeah that could be our first female president but we're not far from there right now I mean the the the absurdity of the ACLU fining a complaint and now the Department of Education civil rights division following up for refusing to use Zer pronouns I mean it's like it is what it is this is something we're already here and so the the first step is to intimidate right it's an intimidation mechanism you got to defend yourself you got to get a lawyer you have to spend time on it right maybe you'll get deposed or subpoena for your records and texts and documents um and so a formal social credit system that's tied to like your digital identity would just take this to the N power and you know I spent a year living in western China when I was a documentary filmmaker and uh this is like where the weers are the wegers are the Muslim minority population of China's West um and they're you know ruled by the Han Chinese who comprise the the majority of the country and so I observing kind of what they're doing what they were doing over time and and it gets to be a centralized control over your identity you know they wouldn't allow weager men to wear mustaches like trivial things that are that are that are the beginning but then it's like very serious kind of regulation of thought and opinion and so it's propaganda that is backed up by force that's really all that we're talking about and we have in a much milder form like a like a a kind of like a lightbeer form um propaganda that is backed up by by the force of the state um and we have to push at every opportunity and look I'm a conservative I work with conservative politicians and intellectuals because we're cobbling together the only viable counter movement you can't solve this by culture alone you have to get in the arena of politics you have to change the law and you have to replace institutions that are broken with new institutions it's an uphill fight there's not a huge reservoir of talent and resources at our disposal but what I've been trying to do whether it's with Harvard or critical race Theory or Dei all of these stories that I've broken and campaigns that I've run is at least turn people on to the idea that something is deeply wrong put a name and a face to it and then offer some pathway for them to resolve these problems and um you know I if we don't we lose the great promise we were promised Liberty and equality those are the two fundamentals you you don't see people don't even have an understanding of what that means anymore and so we have to recover intellectually what has been uh uh uh erased from our our discourse and then we have to fight in the arena of actual political power we have to take action we have to change laws we have to reform bureaucracies we have to lead institutions and so every day that I wake up it's like that's what I'm doing what wins are we putting up on the board because unless we're having substantial wins in all these little areas um that social credit system that you're talking about it's just a matter of time um when you look at the current political landscape um particularly uh these these trials how Disturbed are you by what seems to be this acceptance that people have for prosecuting political opponents cuz to me it's regardless of what you think about Donald Trump as a human being and the the polarizing figure that he is setting the president of trying your political opponents to somehow or another either put them in jail or make them seem like complete total criminals in a way that would for the casual for the person who's not reading deep into the headlines for the the cas casual Democrat that sees this Trump real estate thing that just happened where he got fined $365 million the casuals i' I've seen people argue you know that you know fraud is fraud and this is that and he's a [ __ ] fraud and and then I saw Kevin o explain it uh from Shark Tank he was saying this is what every real estate developer does they say my building's worth $400 million and then someone comes along from the bank and they say no it's worth $300 million we'll give you a loan on $300 million or whatever it is what negotiation but also real estate pricing in general is the strange thing to to say that's fraud because people overvalue their property all the time I mean it's a standard thing that people do when someone has a house and it's worth $700,000 they start decide to list it as $900,000 and the the real estate person says well you know it's it's it's really pushing it you guys like that's what I want I think it's worth $900,000 like people have always done weird [ __ ] like that and then when you have this leftist judge that says that Mara Lago is worth1 million like then you just showed all your silly hands you showed you showed your hand because this is that's a crazy thing to say in a place that has the most expensive real estate on Earth yeah and I yeah and the Maro property is is not worth $18 million I mean that's AB isn't it like 18 Acres yeah it's huge it covers both sides of the little you know key or whatever you call the little island but the bigger question is the the question that was first raised by the presidency of Richard Nixon that is now coming to fruition with the with the presidency and the kind of ex- presidency of Donald Trump we have a democratic system that favors Trump uh in the sense that he won in 2016 he's winning the primary right now for republicans in in 2024 um but you have a bureaucracy that is dead set against him and the rhetoric amounts to a very odd claim they they essentially say we want to keep him off the ballot we want to put him in prison we want to bankrupt him so he can't become the president even if the people support him we want to deprive the people of making the decision so you want to take it out of the realm of politics and into the realm of administrative Justice or the criminal justice system and adjudicate it in that way on bogus pretexts I mean the cases are bogus um and so what you're the question that we're raising is who actually rules in this country is it the American people who get to decide by their vote who represents them in the government or is it the permanent bureaucracy that has accumulated so much power what they can say even to Donald I mean Donald Trump has been one of the most famous people in the world for decades he's enormously wealthy he's already been the president of the United States powerful person and the message is we can take out anyone that is a threat to the interests of the system that we've built up and so as someone who I didn't vote for Trump in 2016 I did vote for him for 2020 I'll absolutely vote for him now in 2024 um um it is a contest of how we think of our democratic system and I'm of the mind that the people should decide not the bureaucracy um and this is a contest where Democrats are saying essentially we have to destroy democracy in order to save democracy democracy has very different meanings in the two usage usages in the in that sentence we have to destroy democracy as we've traditionally known it electing a president through a vote of the people in order to save democracy which is ruled by expert opinion ruled by the bureaucracy and essentially left-wing hegemony leftwing domination over institutions and as someone who tries to maximize whatever I can do to push forward on these issues politically it's not lost on me that if they can wipe out someone like Donald Trump Trump you know we're we're all table Stakes relatively yeah um and and they're going to have no hesitation because once they cross the Rubicon metaphorically speaking um you know that's when dissent becomes a crime and we've already seen that you know I I I reported on the you know of gender ideology in schools and you know work with some of the parent groups that were trying to mobilize and they all got put on an FBI list we know this for sure FBI counter terrorism list Jes that was specifically for parent Schoolboard protesters so if you participate in the Democratic process will turn you into a criminal um I I I I I hate that with every fiber of my being and whatever threats come my way whatever lawsuits whatever you know kind of uh investigations come my way you know it's worth it you know take me to prison you know fine let's do this because we have to actually confront these questions headon we need to have people that have enough courage uh to put to actually RI you know courage without risk is not courage well you're saying is not hyperbole I mean no these are facts these are documented documented facts and again because it's a person like Donald Trump you get people thinking like if you could stop Hitler by any means necessary wouldn't you stop Hitler and so they equate Donald Trump with Hitler and go here you go this is our modern Hitler do you see what whby Goldberg said what' you say willby gber said that Biden could arrest all the Republicans and put them in jail you just need to see how unhinged this kind of thinking is well you know what Joe Biden could do Joe Biden you have to see it cuz it's it's so crazy on television find that Jamie cuz it's so let look at a scenario where the Supreme Court says yes he has that he has all those rights he is immune from everything you know what Joe Biden could do since he is president president what whoa he could throw every Republican in jail yeah I mean he could I mean this is not a good because he toally he could go what this means is it's he could do anything that's not what it means at all yeah no but the fact that she says that so confidently like if if you're willing to let Donald Trump use presidential immunity that means Joe Biden could just go crazy and arrest all the Republicans because that's what that means no that's not what that means even a little bit Yeah like you just added a whole bunch of stuff to what that means I mean in In fairness though I mean the view has to be uh you know if you average out the view hosts among the dumbest people on television and it's like they say the thing that people are thinking but they say it very direct so they expose whatever truth but I don't think some of them are dumb you don't think so no I don't think Sunny H deliberate I think she's ideologically driven and they have blinds blinders on for sure uh I don't think Sunny's dumb um but whoopy is certainly not the brightest person and what she just said just doesn't make any sense it's just like so silly to say it's it's not a wellth thought out it's like if you had an idea for a premise and you like it was Totally Baked and Half Baked and you went on stage with it and just [ __ ] it's nothing just go for it yeah there's nothing there sometimes Comics do that yeah and the other question is then is that representative of a big constituency I think probably yes well a lot of MSNBC viewers are probably also thinking I don't even think the MSNBC viewers I think they're a little bit more sophisticated than that this is this is like low information blue no matter who like older Housewives who are mad at the world that's who that's the appeal that whoopy Goldberg has does whoopy have children no idea it's interesting too like really uh politically motivated older women who don't have children yeah it's they're they're very spec like you can kind of guess the way they think I would like to see like what the stats are on uh older postmenopausal women with no children and how they lean politically college educated yeah oh is like I bet it's like my fans being male it's like yeah exactly it's like ocean blue I mean like the the depths of that bananas yeah and let because the women that I know that are uh Republican they're almost all moms it's kind of wild well there's a lot of young like hot Republican women that are social influencers now too which is hilarious yeah it's fun it's fun to see like these Trends you see them in things where people realize like oh this is a passive success I'm going to be a black Trump supporter you know they just run with it you see a little bit of that but I feel like uh with a lot of moms that I know that uh were like hippies they were like uh and then they had kids and they're like [ __ ] this like immediately like a buddy of mine's mom who was like super [ __ ] leftwing like fullon leftist she had kids and then the the the riots and Co and all the cha she's like [ __ ] this like it red pilled so many of those folks they're just not talking about it they don't talk about it outwardly because they're really uncomfortable with being ostracized and being yelled at it especially with like groups of their old friends that are single that still live in Los Angeles you know especially if you're s like there certain ideological hubs you know like [ __ ] Silver Lake there's like these spots where you can't escape dude I lived in Tanga Canyon for a year oh boy that's a good one like yeah that's a I went to look at a house in Tang Tanga Canyon and uh the house had uh a tennis court it was this beautiful house with the tennis court wow that's really cool so we're going through this the house house and we're checking out you know the kitchen and all the stuff and then the neighbor just drops in and she goes if you buy this house you're going to let us use the uh tennis court right I go what she goes the community uses the tennis court I go the community uses the tennis court that's in my [ __ ] backyard if I buy this house I have to agree that like maybe I can't play tennis cuz you're playing tennis what the [ __ ] are you talking about I sign on the list man yeah she like like got in my face with like beads on and [ __ ] you know like the whole deal like that but she didn't say it like are you going like this is the community has traditionally allowed like we're like a really close-nit group you're going to love living here really nice people but one thing I want to tell you is like we all like to get together and play tennis back there do you think that would be okay if you bought this house that would be a different conversation yeah I'd be like maybe I like this lady maybe look Alice is out there playing tennis maybe we're friends maybe it's cool like if I live next door to my buddy and he was over there playing tennis I'd be like what's going on man man what are you doing what's happening it'd be fun it'd be like a cool thing to have your friends playing tennis in your yard maybe this would be fun but you're going to let us use the the community is going to use your tennis court right with the Eyes Wide Open where's what am I get to use yours can I use your kitchen the [ __ ] are you talking about lady I'm going go fishing in your back of your yard yeah what are you saying what are you saying it's a wild it's a wild place though because it's like a time capsule there's some the old timey hippies I get along with yeah it's like I love those people I grew up around those people unless they want to use your tennis court yeah but then it's like oh yeah can't use my dentist Court I lived next to a guy um uh this guy white dude from Georgia went by like an Indian like spiritual name oh nice and he was uh and this dude was uh he set up a business called live water so he was like repelling down like mountainsides Gathering like water and then selling it to all the rich like Housewives down in the Palisades it was like living water that was his for the scam was there a scam and oh yeah the scam is like it's completely dangerous right but uh but you know like a well-meaning guy and then I mean he would walk around like it was a duplex we shared and I mean he would walk around just like no pants on just totally naked just yeah she like what's up man just talking to you like it's just a normal conversation naked yeah normal conversation um and it's like oh good to see you mukand were you single at the time I was single at the time and he has a girlfriend there they were making like nut Butters and selling this raw water you know that's what they were doing and then like yeah you want to come to a ceremony tonight it's like yeah I'll check that out man we'll go to tea ceremony and there was like a peaceful hippi out California culture that was fine yeah but the second you're like yeah now we want drag queens in schools you're a bad person because your your your ancestors came from Europe and by the way we want to destroy the whole society that's when I'm like I'm going to tap out and now we're going to fight about it well you know how you know that this is is an ideolog ideologically driven thing that you know you have this this very clear group of uh opinions that you must adopt is the rejection of the Gaye against groomers movement right because there's they they attack those people root mercilessly it's like no like we are just homosexual men and we don't think that indoctrinating children the way you're doing is right it's not right like what you're doing is [ __ ] up you're not supposed to be teaching kids about [ __ ] when they're six they don't need to know about sucking dick when they're six that's nuts and anybody that wants to put that in schools and put these blatantly pornograph and then here's the thing this one drove me bananas when they said the don't say gay that it's don't say gay law and everybody kept repeating it all these liberals that I know kept repeating it says the don't say gay law nowhere in that law does it say don't say gay right that's not what it's about it's about introduc and it's a very specific age group it's about introducing sexually explicit books to kids that are a certain age and they're calling it The don't say gay law and I'm GNA say it I'm goingon to say gay gay gay wow you deserve a prize again older women no kids liberal right but that's not what the law said and but for lowi information view viewers of the view or listeners of MSNBC and the people that kept repeating that that don't say gay law over and over they like wow does you hear what they're doing in Florida you can't say gay in school imagine being a gay kid and you're in that class and you can't even say you're gay that's [ __ ] nuts like hey pal we're talking about seveny olds yeah it's like yeah there's yeah and you know I did a bunch of reporting and the stuff that they're doing is in is like insane it's not just oh teaching kids about sex okay fine obviously they have to know certain like biological realities that you know sooner or later we all figure out but it was like you know artificial penis Packers that was a story I did they were teaching like Chicago public school kids and Middle School um how to wear you know like fake penis and setting up with with the kind of with the hormone clinics and but if they don't teach them that who's going to teach them that's right yeah the the older guy down the street who runs by in the van you know yeah come on in I've got lessons yeah but but it's like um you know I worked a lot on the on the on the you know policy in Florida and uh what it boils down to in Florida is a pretty simple thing there's been such a politicization and radicalization of gender theory in schools the governor wisely just said you know what let's just take that off the table let's focus on Reading Writing and math let's focus on a good Civics curriculum so that we have real citizens that were graduating from our uh public 8 through 12 schools and then let's let um families churches and and and and and you know private Society determine for themselves what they would like like to teach their kids about these controversial issues just take it off the table no uh no instruction on gender ideology uh no instruction on you know of course the explicit you know kind of sexual materials Beyond some reasonable you know uh considerations and this to me is fair you can't uh teach religion in schools um you know they delegate that to the private sector to Civil Society to parents and families you know and so unless we want to have an all fight all the time over these issues like why is it even necessary it's not I have kids I don't want them I I don't I don't feel like a need for uh uh the school to to teach them all of these things is like we teach them at home we talk about them they naturally kind of uh uh learn and develop um and so I think that it is very wise to just say let's take it off the table let's delegate this back to people in their personal lives that seems like a solution that everyone should agree with completely logical unless you're dedic ated to indoctrinating people yeah into your movement what is the don't say gay law let's let's be specific about that just in case anybody tries to call us on this so it was initially no no teaching on gender identity and sexual orientation in K through three um which is super reasonable super reasonable and then uh it caused this massive uproar and the legislator said all right you know we're just going to double down now it's K through 12 they're saying no gender identity no sexual orientation no explicit you know kind of pornographic materials in K through 12 we're taking it totally off the table and look there is a reasonable argument to be made to say okay Elementary School I get it maybe a little bit in middle school maybe in high school there's more latitude like okay that's a a reasonable consideration but it's also eminently reasonable to just say we're taking it all off the table and just teach people and just teach people what they need to know to be successful in life I'm sorry but I I had good teachers growing up I had quite a few that I remember I have a a science teacher from seventh grade that to this day I I think about fondly he was a brilliant man and he taught me about wonder I think about that guy I've also had a gang of [ __ ] morons who taught me and I don't want that gang of morons teaching my children about biological sex or gender or homosexuality or heterosexuality or oral sex or anal I don't want nothing no than I don't want you teaching them anything about any of those things I don't want you telling them that you're a Zer I don't want you pretending that you're foxkin I don't want any of that [ __ ] if you're teaching history I want you to teach what happened in 1943 I want you to teach math this is how you count this is how you divide this is algebra this is this is what you're supposed to be doing that's what you're hired for if you're a drag queen and you're not teaching how to be a drag queen h that's it ex you're not supposed to be if somebody wants to take drag queen courses all for you yeah but uh I don't think you should be reading stories to little kids it just seems [ __ ] Biz it's one more factor that kid has to deal with totally yeah yeah for what reason for for what reason and and so inclusiveness that's [ __ ] it's [ __ ] it's like man because it's not inclusive of many other perspectives a traditional perspective a religious perspective a general kind of conservative perspective also how much are you screening these drag queens well uh not enough yeah what is the what is the odds that someone who's a man who likes to dress and drag has other problems I I would I mean I don't I'm not accusing all of them of having other problems I'm sure some of them are just lovely people who like to wear women's clothes have at it have a good time however there's a possibility that you might be a kinky freak yeah there's a real possibility if you're putting fake eyelashes on and 10in heels and you're calling yourself Miss Wanda and you wear in fish nets and you tuck your dick into your butthole region and tape it down or whatever they do is a it's a possibility you might be out of your [ __ ] mind and if you're doing a drag show at a at a bar in the Castro and that's a kind of subculture where they're all adults they're all opting in have a good time knock yourself out like totally fine um but it's like bringing that into the public schools with Government funding with other people's kids that's when I think reason people say no yeah reasonable people should say no and the people that don't say no think that they're going to be attacked for being bigoted if they do but there's so many people that are like on the fence and scared and don't know what to do and their kids are coming home with these wacky ideas and they like what the [ __ ] do I do what do I do and then if you try to go to the Schoolboard meetings you get labeled a domestic terrorist this is insanity like you're you're just enforcing indoctrination and you're just making sure that I comply and that is a slippery slope kids because you might be getting your way right now doing this and you might think that you should be able to get your way but what if someone else gets into office what if there's a war what if there's chaos what if we have a military dictatorship you've already established the rules no one's going to give you those those laws back you've already set it so that the the state and the government and the institutions can dictate personal behavior and how how people are allowed to communicate if you've done that you [ __ ] up because now you've given power to the people that are in control and if you pay any attention to donors you realize the same donors donate to both people so what have you done you've you've empowered the Deep state to control your lives and make it easier to steal your money yeah and and and the economics of it is also perilous right all of these systems are functionally insolvent right University system our federal budget um Federal bud it's just crazy you don't have to be a math PhD to understand that this is not sustainable over the long term and so look as a political person um what I always do is try to figure out what riffs and possibilities are opening in society and how can I use those to advance the political objectives that I have that's how it works and so when there's the kind of Hamas attacks and the universities reveal themselves to be crazy or it's the capture of K through2 schools and the gender ideologies going is going radical you know all of these problems also provide opportunities um for for correction for reforms for decentralizing some of these institutions and I think we're now teetering on a few different vectors towards what could be a radical restructuring of our society you have this confrontation between Trump and Biden but really between Trump and the entire State apparatus that's trying to jail him and prevent him from running for president you have uh a military budget and a federal budget more broadly that is running you know trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see um you have a c or rather a higher education system that is now I think 1.6 1.7 trillion dollars in student debt that the government has absorbed that's ready to blow up at any time the 2020 was a wakeup call for many people the next wakeup call is going to be 2020 100 times over um and so those those of us and those people who are just arranging their personal lives that are listening should be figuring out what they what to do how to best position themselves to be successful for their families for their careers for whatever they're working on and those of us who want to see deeper changes you know we're all preparing we're all getting ready to say when the House of Cards Falls over and it's revealed that none of this is sustainable the fundamentals of our country institutional Financial political cannot hold and they can't be covered over with ideology for anymore um you know we have to have responsible civic-minded people that are ready to take leadership again um and I think that um it may not be this election cycle may not be in a year may not be in two years but by any Vector if you talk to people who really know we're heading towards a big shift uh and I hope that we can emerge on the other side just freeing ourselves from a lot of this ideological capture that I think is hurting people and hurting our country I could agree more and just leave people the [ __ ] alone and and stop using this as a vector of control because that's what they're doing and it's also there's a problem with that though the ideology leave me alone the kind of philosophical statement is correct I I believe in it it's a kind of Civic Republican ideal it's been the American way is give people the maximum autonomy to their lives delegate to civil society as much as you can but we don't live in that world anymore we have a a a massive Federal bureaucracy we have these huge institutions that control the culture um and so uh I if you're arguing to be left alone you're always going to be run over by people who don't want to leave you alone the solution is not to then you know assume it and impose your vision but you at least have to have people who who are willing to fight the public fight um because you know most people want to be left alone they deserve that but we need to have a leadership class kind of counter Elite capable of taking over these institutions that can then adopt the the policies and and administer the centralized institutions to protect the average person the average person is not going to read queer Theory and and and understand what's happening and fight fight the good fight but people who are involved in political life I think we have a duty to provide protection for the average person the average person is calling for physical protection uh protection of their livelihood protection of their reputation protection of their kids protection of their institutions um do you see anyone that is uh directly speaking to that need and offering a a plausible vision for how that could be accomplished I I think very few people are thinking in those terms and and to me that's a shame well it's also a shame that people that have these ideas are not willing to run for office because running for office is such a [ __ ] show it's and you see what happens when anyone runs for office it's just these attacks are merciless and ruthless and it's all in your character in your past we saw it with Kavanagh you see saw with Joe Biden you see with everybody you've been through it yeah everybody's been through it but and obviously I'm not running for office but when they're trying to attack you and they're trying to do that that discourages so many people that would be great leaders but it's also now been accepted as a part of the political process it but it's always always been part of the political process if you go back to the history of the founding of the country you can read Jefferson's letters and he's bitching about the Press slandering his character like for decades right he's writing he's still bitter about things that happened when he was you know dying in the early 1800s he's still bitter about like some slanderous you know journalist who was imputing his character 30 years prior and so wild look I I I've been through it to to a certain extent you've been through it um like that's the price that's the price of admission and so I think rather than lamenting the fact that it's it's this way we need people and and you know I I certainly adopt this attitude and I think Governor D santis in Florida has really uh achieved this uh and demonstrated this you know remember covid they were calling him all sorts of names you know the the I mean they they they fired up the press machine against him um in a really brutal way and as conservatives I've estimated that we take somewhere between 100 to one and a th000 to one negative to positive stories in the Press that's just the ratio that we that we have to live with 100 to one negative to positive but what what what he taught me and I think it's a valuable lesson for more people to understand is he's saying look the people are smarter than the press and so when we're fighting when we're raising the issues when we're getting attacked when we're driving forward something that's the right thing to do you'll be rewarded by the people later and so he won a very narrow election his first time he through all of this controversy with Disney with covid with gender with uh you know history curriculum whatever it is the people of Florida delivered him a huge 20-point Victory unprecedented and to me that's a sign that when you take ownership when you take courage when you take the hits and when you do the right thing people are smart enough to sift through the lies the propaganda the suppression the censorship and reward you and um you know I I've certainly seen that in my own experience you know dealing with hostile media dealing with threats dealing with you know people screaming at my kids you know uh I mean like real like intimidating things and you have to say you know you have to make prudent decisions you have to protect the people around you you have to make sure that you can uh you know not get wiped off the board um but then once you get past that what I found when you get past that initial barrage when you get through the gauntlet you feel freedom you feel this incredible sense of you've survived you've gotten to the other side and now people can't hurt you because they've tried they've failed and now you have uh the freedom to speak your mind the freedom to do what you want the Fe freedom to chart your own path but until you get through that barrage I don't think that you're free at all and so people that have wealth people that have power people that have Prestige are sometimes desperately holding on to that they want to protect it as much as they can um but I think I think what happens is that they become uh they go through life and they get to a point where they I'll finally speak out if this happens if that happens if the cost is lower you end up kind of wasting away your life and your opportunities and so my goal and uh for the past year especially is to radicalize America's Elites to show them the problems that our country is facing and then to summon them to Courageous action to fix it because as we get people who have something to lose when they start talking people listen and so I you know I live on a small farm in rural Washington State there's only so much I can do personally um but certainly with you know the book that I wrote with the articles that I'm doing with the media engagement that I'm trying to drive um what I found is that the attitude among America's Elites Finance Tech entertainment have changed dramatically in the last few years yes and we just have to get them over that hump so that they're saying the things that they tell you and private and tell me in private when you have those conversations I would just recommend just say hey what about saying that publicly people don't want to lose their jobs but these are people who are you know who are you know they don't have jobs they're they're they're they're they're they're Titans of Finance they're they're people in prestigious positions they're kind of University professors with tenure protections people are scared they really they're scared of repercussions how do we get them to cross over that fear we have to make it less fearful we have to make get more common and I think these conversations hap happen and more of them happen and more people listen to them and it changes people's perspective and they realize this is kind of dangerous and that there's there's real urgency in involved here like this this could really go sideways for us and there's a lot of factors that are trying to force it into going sideways and not all of them are domestic there's a lot going on with social media influence that's 100% manufactured there's manufactured arguments manufactured dissent there's there's a lot of like manufactured conflict that happens online that we are have documented very clearly it's coming from Russian troll Farms it's coming from various different Eastern block countries it's coming from China it's coming from all over the place and it it has an effect on us whether we like it or not and it certainly has an effect on young people it certainly has an effect on self-censorship it certainly has effect on stifling dissent it ha it has an impact they attack people and they they attack people like with thousands of trolls they know what they're doing and it's very effective and if you pay attention to your comments you're going to get run over by it and it's um yeah never read the comments can't read them yeah can't read them some of them are nonsense I read comments on other people stuff sometimes when someone writes something controversial and I'll just go that seems crazy to say let me go to that person and that's a you know abz 22256 that's a fake person it's a fake person that got a Twitter profile and now there it's like a guy uh in an Eastern block country with a thousand phones that he's kind of it might not even be that anymore I believe it's probably AI I mean with the the ubiquitous use of chat GPT and all these different things you could easily attack a tweet in a in a progressive fashion and you could give it parameters of how to attack it and what to say and you could distribute that in Mass give me 45 different versions of this uh attack and they'll give you 45 different versions of it I think that's probably true but I think that in my opinion I think we overestimate the the potential influence of kind of foreign operators foreign operators don't know the language of American ideologies you don't think that's easy to learn no I I think it's actually a little difficult to learn because if even if you look at kind of Chinese uh kind of CCTV which is the national Chinese broadcaster you look at the propaganda that they're actually trying to push it's like awful it's like not persuasive at all their movies are amazing the movies are amazing yeah and those are commercial Enterprises but I actually think it puts the real uh kind of villains off the hook um it's not them it's really us it's the people who run our institutions uh domestically who set policy for YouTube and and other and other platforms that's probably the bigger factor I think it's the bigger Factor because if you can have people organically talking about things what you do on Twitter and in when you see the things that are happening on Twitter so a lot of it's very distasteful you'll see some very racially charged frankly racist arguments about things just openly discussed and people agreeing with them openly and it's like woo you know lumping people into one gigantic group of this or that and it's just like man but the opportunity for other people to successfully counter those those statements exist too the opportunity for people to jump in and say this is why what you're saying is so [ __ ] stupid you know take into consideration that take into consideration this you don't know about that you don't know about this what you're saying is nonsense yeah and that's a whole part of human discourse that's being ignored when people are censoring in favor of blocking hate speech the problem with blocking hate speech is you block the the potential condemnation of hate speech you block the potential intellectual battle between morons believe stupid [ __ ] and smart people who are motivated to make them look dumb and this is all good for the viewer this is all good for people the young minds and the people that are easily influenced and the people that are on the fence and the people that hadn't taken into consideration this perspective or that perspective that's what free speech is supposed to be all about the the answer to bad speech has always been better speech it's always been the case but when you got people that will ban your account if you uh use a person's name that they used to have when they were a man but now they're a woman so you dead name them so you you made up up this thing at the same time will you have the [ __ ] Taliban on Twitter you're insane you're an insane person exactly and Elon has done a service for the entire Human Race by purchasing that platform and I do not say that lightly I do not say that flippantly him purchasing Twitter is one of the most important things that's ever happened to us in terms of push back in terms terms of just recognizing like this is insane to tell people that they have to abide by your insanely rigid ideology that doesn't make sense it's not logical and if they don't they can no longer participate in the discussion they're removed from the Town Square that's Bonkers I I remember even you know Andrew Tate who I think is like obviously very you self-evidently a bad person uh don't I don't think that he's a good model for young man but I remember you know he didn't call for terrorist violence he didn't you know say anything you know extremely racist I don't think that I saw at least and I and and I remember just it was like one day he's nuked from every online platform simultaneously yeah and I saying what you don't have to like the guy you don't have to agree with the guy but the fact that all of these companies can set off a little Cascade where you can disappear someone from the internet overnight Milo yannopoulos is Milo yannopoulos was the first one yeah they really silenced him that guy was a powerful voice and he was Ned from in real life very nice in real life hilarious very smart very nice every time I met him he was cool he was playing a character and I think there's a lot of drugs involved as well but he was certainly playing a character that had good points yeah he was playing playing this character that was this like right-wing gay guy who liked to talk about sex and drugs and I was like this guy's fascinating but they decided that he was problematic and they [ __ ] erased him they memory hold him that guy was on Bill Maher and Bill Maher compared him to Christopher Hitchens remember that wow I didn't know that yeah and then he got attacked by some other guy on the show tell him [ __ ] you and like there was a lot of a lot of [ __ ] you with that guy there's a lot of drama but that's what he liked he liked that and it was playing to his favor until they erased him from everywhere you know and uh I think they erased him particularly the first part was his criticism of Ghostbusters and then he was uh criticizing the new all female cast of Ghostbusters saying how sexist it is and every man's a [ __ ] and the women save the day and how ridiculous it is and then he got into it with Leslie Jones so Leslie Jones and him got into it and I think he retweeted or liked something that people had said that was uh comparing Leslie Jones what was it exactly I don't remember what it was exactly but it was something racist or something gross or something unflattering something sure and you know and people were tweeting it at her and they were blaming him and then they they got rid of him he's gone did they just say oh it's mobilizing harassment or something no that was that's I'm I can't believe I forgot this it's what started is him justifying himself being sexually molested by older men when he was young and he was saying on my show that he was the Predator he was trust me I was the Predator he was the seducing you know first of all anybody who doesn't think that my yopos is gay is out of their [ __ ] mind like that you think that's a choice that's have choice that dude's [ __ ] gay baked in by the universe he is yeah that is like the prime example that I always throw in the face of people who it's usually for religious reasons who are unwilling to uh accept biological reality like here's some biological reality for you you want to know this the first video ever captured of humpback whales mating was just recently uh filmed and they're both male nice so the first evidence that we have of humpback whales engaging in sexual intercourse is gay sex humpback huh yeah they had to go real listen humpbacks humpbacks are m humpbacks are intelligent humpbacks likely are gay there's probably if they exist in us why would they not exist in other intelligent mammals that are on Earth with us like dolphins I'm sure there's gay Dolphins there's probably gay orcas it's probably normal it's probably there's a percentage in every population that's gay who gives a [ __ ] the the point is that like that guy's gay right and he claims that he was the predator and everyone was like oh my God he's normalizing pedophilia if he had just tried that today it would have been a minor attracted person's issue he would be celebrated I mean he' oh but this guy was minor attracted and I was a minor come back as a drag queen but he would say like now if like literally in the amount of time from him being canceled to today that statement is not nearly as controversial yeah isn't that wild yeah and look you don't have to agree or disagree with the statement that's irrelevant it's something that is within the bounds look if you're calling for uh the like the Harvard example the genocide of all Jews around the world you should be banned from social media platforms yes that is a a a prudent limit that I think we can all agree on but on more nuanced issues or more uh I even if you take it at face value I think he's probably going for shock value 100% but also he was telling an anecdotal story about how in it was on another podcast I believe he said this that it plays a very important role in young gay men to have an older gay Mentor I I have no [ __ ] dog in this race yeah I don't you know I don't know but I do know that I feel very differently about a a sexual predator that's a man that targets girls like if I found out that a football coach was targeting young 14 and 15y old girls I would be Furious if I found out a hot teacher usually from Florida with a push-up bra was banging all the high school football kids I'm laughing it's a little different I think it's funny you know why cuz I think those kids are going to be fine they're going to be Legends yeah few those kids Zack alvan has had a [ __ ] amazing joke one of them died his friends high-fived him to death oh God I think that's Zach um but but this is because people want to pretend that there's no difference between men and women women right that's all it is it's you know it's like everyone you know wants to pretend that's true it's obviously not true and of course the football coach who's like a pervert going against you know uh you know with the young girl that that's a totally different scenario it is a different scenario also the lady who's blowing all the high school football kids also shouldn't be a teacher yeah yeah youed immediately get rid of her she should be doing porn or something but the point is it's like if he's talking about his life that and and saying that this was his choice and that he wanted this the the issue is not with him the issue is with the man who did that to him right right so he's not s he's literally talking about his own personal experience that memory hold him it's not he's saying he's not saying hey I should be able to go to high schools and pick up 14-y olds because they want it okay yeah now we're talking a different thing now we're talking about a guy who's advocating pedophilia right this is different we're talk he's he was merely talking about his own life and that's how rabbit everybody was to get rid of him and it was at that point effective and I think that became a problem because once it became effective then they became emboldened it's like the Alex Jones argument when people say yeah ban Alex Jones like and everybody's like hey hey hey this is a [ __ ] very slippery slope yeah because if you want to ban everybody who's made disinformation and put it put it out publicly how's Rachel still on yeah how is she still on everybody seen that video of her talking about the covid vaccine that's Insanity the government I mean yeah how are they still on I mean I mean how many different stories were incorrect not apologizing for what he did what Alex did he doesn't apologize for I mean he apologizes for it but he feels deep remorse that he did that he's just like overwhelmed by it but that getting rid of that guy is a slippery slope and no matter what you think about what he said you can't support that you got to let people sort it out the way to find out if let's say uh he says there's a false flag and some attack somewhere the way to find out he's telling the truth is to have people investigate it if you say that operation Northwoods was uh a document drawn up by the joint and signed by The Joint Chiefs of Staff that was going to uh attack Guantanamo Bay and blame it on the Cubans to start a war and you say that on your show people go you're a [ __ ] crazy person how are you allowing these no no no you have to be able to have someone come on and say hey actually this is true and then you realize like oh wait a minute some conspiracies are real and if you silence this one guy that calls out all of them because he [ __ ] up on one you're also limiting his ability to call out the ones that are legitimate and you're talking about a guy who's doing this all day long every day that's all he does all he does is and he's out there I mean he's an out there personal out that's why fun but he's out there talking about the world economic Forum I've said this 100 times and I'll say it again he told me about Jeffrey Epstein over a decade before anybody was was in the news he was telling me that there was this oper this operation and they take these guys and high-profile public figures and a lot of politicians and they compromise them with young girls it's like what on an island what is this a [ __ ] ABC after school movie that's crazy that sounds nuts and then now everybody knows it's true and there's been a ton of those from him infiltrating Bohemian Grove and catching these [ __ ] wackos and heads of state burning an effigy in front of an owl God like what the [ __ ] that's real the thing the video he did with John Ronson in the90s so it's like all of this stuff at a certain point in time needs to be out there and people need to find out what's real and what's not real what's real and the the only way to find out what's real is not the silence everybody who says something that's incorrect is to let people talk it out so when someone gets on there and says the Earth's Hollow and this [ __ ] aliens inside shooting laser beams let's let's like talk to geologists and have them explain to you that they would be boiling in lava like they don't live in the center of the earth we know what the Earth's made out of we know all the planets this is how we know this is why we know the Earth is round because every [ __ ] body of mass as it spin it around it it be it takes on that [ __ ] form all the planets every of them this one's not unique there's also an element of this is part of American folklore yes if you believe that the world is flat it's obviously false um any thinking person will conclude that this is a ridiculous crazy thing to believe and yet having a group of you know flat earthers in our broader Society provided that they're not like given power over you know the NASA or something adds texture and richness to our culture even if they're totally wrong and so what we're having is we're trying to align a discourse rationally Within These strict ideological bounds it actually ends up breaking this great proliferation of culture some of it which is good some of bad some of it's crazy some of it's insightful but the I think that the real calculation that we have to make is not even a free speech issue it's not really even about censorship it's about power and the distribution of power if you stack up all of the people who have been kind of nuked from orbit online on the on the right and then on the left you have a graph that looks out like this yeah and so you have to then say well why is that who's making the decisions how are decisions being made and who are they going after what views are they trying to suppress and so again getting it out of the realm of the abstract debate and into the realm of of a political analysis gets us to this uncomfortable point this was happening during Trump trump was president and this was still happening yeah and so we have to figure out why this is the case and go and disrupt it and look I I think that you want to have more views more opportunities more subcultures you know more quirky people more you know you know people that are way out there my my old you know naked neighbor in Tanga like let the guy speak if he believes that the you know that we have to have live water and and and it's like Norm the average person is not going to be persuaded and the view is not correct but the the broader culture suffers when everyone is fearing that if they step out outside of the box that they're going to get crushed um and uh and and and conservatives you know we get all worked up about it because look every political faction has their Fringe we have Fringe people in our Coalition or on the outsides of our Coalition but you have to figure out what's you know harmful and what's relatively harmless and a lot of these folk beliefs and superstitions um if you take them not to condemn people as stupid or ignorant or uneducated but you actually talk to people and try to get a sense of why do you believe this it's usually because they feel a sense of powerlessness and even thef kind of uh uh uh thinking they want to believe that there's someone out there that is calling the shots that is the the problem that is controlling the society because they feel that just by identifying a single point they have a sense of understanding a sense of power I actually don't think that that's the case I think it's it's it's it's it's misleading I don't think it's the right way to to look at it but I try to also forgive people to say people are entitled to their superstitions we all have superstitions um and we want a society that where sups are eradicated but you actually end up getting rid of a lot of the texture and a lot of the variety of culture when you try to have a hygienic uh treatment of culture you treat culture like a disease like a petri dish culture um and look I I think like go as far out as you want like go wild with it you know be respectful follow the rules you know maintain some core commitments but um you know I'm always fascinated with those characters I lived in Tanga I lived in Berkeley like you meet these people all over you've lived in these kind of places I for for 99 times out of 100 they're harmless and they should just be tolerated and and and respected well I think it's an important part of how I grew up I I lived in San Francisco from age 7 to 11 and we lived in a super gay neighborhood we our downstair stairs neighbor used to uh they these gay guys that would get um stoned with my aunt and they would play Bongos naked because she could play bongos with naked with these gay guys they didn't give a [ __ ] about her they're just into playing Bongos naked they would just get really high and it was the anti-war movement days you know and so I I lived around that and then I moved to Florida to Gainesville which is very conservative and it was really interesting to watch like I've talked about this before before but I had this uh friend who was Cuban his name was candy and his dad was like super homophobic and he was so mad he slammed the paper down the table he's like these [ __ ] want to get married and I was like what I was like what do you care like that is so weird they're just playing the Bongos it was so weird when he said it I was like what I I mean I remember very clearly I was 11 at the time and I was just blown away I'm like do you not know any gay people this is crazy like what do you care like if you're not gay why do you care if they get married but I didn't say it because I was 11 I was like I just wanted to be quiet but I it burned in my head that that I had gone from San Francisco in the 1970s which was like this very open-minded hippie dominated culture of music and art and then all of a sudden I was in Gainesville Florida and I was around this guy who was angry that gay people wanted to get married I think the question if you look at the the cultureal left of of San Franc Isco at that time I think it's always a question of proportion you can have a successful interesting functioning Society where you have a portion of people who are the you know getting stoned and banging the Bongos okay fine the problem is though that when it becomes out out of proportion when that ideology that kind of elimination of prohibition or limits uh or constraints becomes the dominant policymaking regime works when it's a counterculture right the kind of leftwing and look I come from the left I was a radical leftist I was a Gran Marxist you know uh so so I I know that world what made take a turn you know uh I wanted to get into politics my my my political formation was from my My Father's Side Italian relatives they were all unreconstructed Graham Shin Communists um and so that was like my political upbringing I remember going to visit my aunts and uncles and and seeing like the books on their shelf and it's like oh they have this beautiful collection of bound books and I talk to my aunt and I say what is this Zia what what is this book it's like oh this is the collected works of Lenin you know wow not ironically not as a historical thing but as this is the father of our Revolution um and so that was my political formation I went to get my undergraduate degree at Georgetown with the intention of being involved in leftwing politics the first thing that that that really kind of delusion me was finding out that left-wing politics in the United States is not for the common man it's not to uplift uh the the the the downtrodden um it's about maintaining it's the their own status and Prestige with the institutions it's like you know it's like a McKenzie consultant kind of worldview with the trappings of the left it's the Harvard student who's wearing the Palestinian cfia who then goes on to you know become an investment banker and it's like to me it was so phony I mean it was a profoundly phony and empty political movement run by the Sons and Daughters of American Elites for their own benefit the second thing that really changed me I spent 5 years um well first I traveled around the world making documentaries I saw how Marxist and Communist governments actually work out in practice uh not great and then I made a a film for PBS of all places um looking at three of America's poorest cities and my by then kind of Center left views which was oh you know the Great Society you know uh Public Welfare programs trying to help people when you actually see how those programs manifest in the Southside of Memphis southide of Youngstown southide of Stockton California the poorest places in the country you realize that many of those ideals that are presented to you as care compassion concern equality um you know uh reparations for for for our racial past um are at best cynical and at worst deeply destructive to the people that they're supposed to help and so I I I I spent so much time getting to know people and and thinking about people's lives and then how politics affects them and um you realize that the the project of the left is a a human disaster even if Al speaking it should produce something that is good and then the final change was um in the runup and then after 2020 I I mean 2020 radicalized me because you realized how profound this cultural capture is and you realize that the consequences are no longer abstract they're no longer just destroying you know poor neighborhoods and in in South Memphis let's say that are totally run by the state um but actually it's now proliferated to the middle classes the upper classes this is something that wants Total Domination and so um I I I I got canceled out of my documentary career once I became known as a conservative I lost funding I lost relationships I lost broadcast distribution and then I like I'm out kind of launched into the Wilderness like all right well that career is done what do I do next um and then say all right well let's let's get into politics let's use some of the skills that I've developed as a filmmaker um I'm not a traditional conservative like I'm not a college Republican I don't own a bow tie um have a bow tie I think you have to have a bow tie but if you're a gay guy you can have a bow tie and be super left that's true there's like there's Nuance to it but what I realize is that the the conservative principles are sometimes expressed awkwardly are sometimes articulated poorly but there's some deep truths that need to be resurrected and recovered for us to be successful again and so I threw in my lot with people that I would never have imagined being friends and allies and colleagues with um you know growing up it's like you know this this this huge shift politically um and I think it's been helpful because if you know how your political opponents think um you have a huge advantage and the the left kind of elite kind academic leftist in the United States have no idea what conservatives think they have zero curiosity about it and so that affords us a kind of Advantage because they don't know how we think how we operate what our principles are they just assume the worst um and and so I kind of wake up every day thinking about the people that are around me and saying you know um in a an odd way you're fighting for people that are actually voiceless you know uh uh uh uh the left is the dominant voice of the country of all of our institutions of all of our tech companies the voice that uh really is voiceless are the people who are supposedly the oppressors you have this book that just came out white rural rage you know [ __ ] you know rural people in the United States are not angry enough frankly um and so um I just try to think in those terms always and and and and I've taken over some of the tactics of the left some of the some of the um kind of Maneuvers and some of my activist work which I think it's been helpful um but but I I I just have this visceral um uh you know um just just this visceral uh uh anger at people who have truly inherited positions of power and Prestige they give all this rhetoric about helping the the the oppressed the underprivileged the whatever is the kind of term of the day but they're actually playing a cynical game to maintain their own status I I find that a betrayal of true left principles and I don't think that I would be where I were today where I am today um had I not seen that betrayal up close and personal um and uh and and really you know want to fight I want to destroy that I want to take all of those people who are selling a bill of goods to the people who are struggling in this country under these principles of diversity equity and inclusion but it's just about having a tenur position having a featherbed job being able to do the activist work on the public dollar um not creating anything of value not helping anyone but themselves um I I I think that that is it's such a betrayal of the principles of the left but really the principles of the country and I think the way you're explaining it particularly in the the the desire to have a richness of culture and not have rigid rules and have the openness to have basically anybody just be who you are but recognize that being captured by this ideology that supposedly supports you it's doing it for its own means it's doing it for a very specific purpose and it's not doing it to support you it's using these ideas and principles as camouflage to sneak in through your defenses and it's dangerous and it's creepy and it's weird how effective it is and that's why I'm really happy that you're out there and I'm really happy that you can lay it down uh so articulately and express especially coming from your background of being a guy who grew up that way grew up leftist to be able to express it I think you have a very unique position in that regard so I'm happy that you're out there appreciate that yeah and likewise I mean what I think is so special about what you do is that you're you're talking about culture and politics Society business um for people who aren't in that bubble like I operate in a political bubble every day right um but but what you've built and I think it's a testament to the possibilities of the internet you know you don't have to be a ABC NBC CBS you know talking head you don't have to have the massive studio lights and the eight layers of makeup you're doing something that's real and people have are really responded to that and I think that uh um it's a reflection of something that we need more of we have an artificial culture that is trying to take over yeah propped up by corporations exactly people that are talking about these things aren't even necessarily interested in these things and that also resonates with the people that listen and watch like I don't have people on that I don't want to talk to I just have people on that I'm only interested in talking to and if you can do that and you're actually interested that's contagious and these these principles that we're talking about and this this thing that you're the way you're laying it out it's important for people even that consider themselves leftists just consider what you're saying because it's for you too it's for everybody that we can't let this happen it's for all ideas it's for gay people straight people trans people white people black people Asians it's for everybody the reason the founding fathers of this country set all these checks and balances in place is because they didn't want anyone to get total complete control over the people and that's what's happening right now and if you don't wake up to it and you think it's okay because your side is winning you're actually anti-American that's right and and it creates this win or take all danger yeah and I don't want to see uh either side have that complete control because either side either side that's not what we want that's not good for the country we need to have a healthy left and a healthy right yeah and and and healthy is the right perspective there are people that are very compassionate kind warm-hearted people that are on the right and there's people that are very compassionate kind warm-hearted people that are on the left and because they have this idea in their head that they're on the good side and these people are on the bad side you don't consider that these are just human beings that think about things differently than you and that is the only way we're all going to get along is if we realize they're just human beings that think about things differently and we should be able to engage with those people peacefully it used to be you could sit down with a conservative person or you could sit down with a liberal person and you might not agree with them but you could have a a friendly discussion and it doesn't have to be a hate-filled attack on your very Humanity because you know because you don't think you know X or Y it's just like that's not good for anybody people don't even want to debate I I don't know if you've come across it but 70s 80s 90s there was this culture of debate left and right got together they hashed it out I've challenged people to debates I've been you know uh people try to set up debates and it's like like we don't even talk even in a confrontational way conflict of of Visions it's like everyone in their Corner everyone's trying to to to make the play and I think I think that's too bad I think we need more actually more friction is good the more public friction engagement debate um will'll get to that point where it's like all right we're up on stage debating but then we go to the green room and we could talk about kids music Sports whatever it is everything and just be a nice person it's not that hard to do it's not that hard to do it's rewarding it's good for everybody Christopher I appreciate you man thank you very much for being here and uh being so articulate about this it's it's very enjoyable to listen to you you're you're on top of it and I think you make some great points thanks for having me appreciate you all right uh tell everybody your social and all that jazz where they can sure yeah you can follow me on Twitter at real Chris rufo I have a substack it's Christopher rufo docomo America's cultureal Revolution that tells that history of the radical lefts long march to the institutions available everywhere all right beautiful thank you bye [Music] [Applause] everybody

Channel: PowerfulJRE

Views: 660,703

Keywords: Joe Rogan Experience, JRE, Joe, Rogan, podcast, MMA, comedy, stand, up, funny, Freak, Party

Id: WwYn7ZZrt8Q

Length: 143min 8sec (8588 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 05 2024