Interrogation Raw: Most Viewed Moments of 2022 | A&E

foreign tell by the tone of her voice that it wasn't normal [Music] Sabrina has a 12 inch bread knife that she is holding in her right hand she's covered in blood I could see blood on the blade I can see blood on her immediately we started screaming to drop the knife it almost like Snapped her out of whatever she was in back to some type of reality I kicked it away from her and we put her down on the floor it was a very tense couple seconds the suspect Sabrina zunich she was a 18 year old foster child of Lisa Canaveral also inside the house was Megan zanella and Haley knavel Megan being 13 and Haley being three years old the father Kevin was away on a trip he was a truck driver and he was in Michigan at that point Sabrina was in foster care for many years before she came to the knavels foreign Landing with the cane Falls really represented a fresh start for her she went from a troubled home with their biological father and Grandma to a youth shelter where she did not want to be she's getting along with the family she's doing great at school she's not getting in trouble things seem to be looking up for her I couldn't find anything indicating something like this could happen oh [Music] follow me please yeah you remember me right our main goal when we first interviewed Sabrina was to get Sabrina to tell us exactly what happened we caught her coming out of the room so we knew she did it we wanted to know why so what uh what do you recall yesterday getting done with my homework I don't know and that's it and we're at home wait the initial happened I don't know how you get along with Kevin having a miracle I mean even more the one that helped me out because there's nothing I can deal with and so we made agreement for a long time ago that if I did anything that I can go to Kevin about well with Lisa dealing with her mainly because I've never been the best she never seem to like me and she's been wanting me out of the house what's your thoughts on how Lisa is not alive now what well you had a knife you stay at least so I did Mr and Megan called the police I mean it is I'm sorry domestic sorry they look really good nobody else deserve nobody else has heard thank goodness Sabrina never denies committing the murder she just acts confused when I tell her that she's the one who killed Police Academy we could have waited here for four days and we were probably gonna get the same answers from her we made the decision that we're just gonna cut this down because she's not going to give us anything else that we need I was hoping to find some text messages some emails some search history as to why this crime took place over the past several weeks Kevin knafel and Sabrina text messaged each other over 1 000 times I did not think it was normal for a foster father and a foster daughter to have thousands of text messages between the two of them [Music] we were confident that Kevin left for work at 8pm the night before the murder and he didn't get back into town until after Lisa's death so we want to know from his perspective as to if there was any argument going on at the house before he left and then you told me you want to talk about his wife's work correct subject matter yes I told his lawyer that we would just talk about the work but I was hoping that maybe he would open up and give us some insight as to what was going on and what why the reason that this happened Kevin do you know anything that was happening at the house the night before you left for work that night well I was hang on a second we just talked about talking about his wife's work was running up the house the night before it's not his last one okay where did your wife work at okay children's things too what did you do there she was a bus worker for the um children's sex with the skin he was looking down there was no tears there was no anger were you and Lisa in the process of going through a divorce okay now we're getting outside the uh let's go Kevin canafel was not willing to help the police and finding out exactly what happened to his wife why is he not cooperating with us what is he hiding from us [Music] so a proffer is a good faith first up when the defense attorney the prosecution me with the suspect it's an opportunity for them to be 100 complete honest and tell exactly what happened it's a first step into a plea agreement we cannot use this against her in court conversation said there was another party involved yes Kevin Canaveral my foster father it was Kevin's idea and it was talked about after we were having sexual relations and him and Lisa were having problems in marriage he wanted to get a divorce but Haley which is a three-year-old daughter of his and her was in the picture and he wanted full custody she would get custody or it would be shared and he didn't want that happening so the alternative was for this to happen when was it after you started to live there on a daily basis sexual nature started um it all started not with sex but with massages because he was a truck driver and his legs would cramped so it was inner thigh then it progressively got into sex tell you hey you can't tell anybody about this all the time did you say what would happen then you'd be taken out of my care and I could lose my foster parent license what I would I would never do that telling him as Sabrina Kevin's relationship continued Sabrina described the increasing pension she felt from Lisa and that Sabrina felt that she wasn't welcome in the house anymore so Kevin convinced Sabrina that if she did Kill Lisa and did get caught that she would only do two to five years that he would protect her and that after she got out that he would be there with her they would buy a house and basically she can be like a mother figure to Haley no not no money on my books no letters no calls no nothing that's when we learned that Kevin helped plan this murder it was calculated and essentially Kevin using Sabrina to get his wife out of the picture and to collect life insurance money Sabrina's childhood I believe is probably the most important thing to understand why something like this could happen Sabrina had never experienced a stable family a loving household the sense of security the sense of belonging Kevin seemed to know how to prey on Sabrina's vulnerabilities in my opinion the verdict came very quickly the jury came up with a guilty verdict I believe it took a matter of about two days she was described as having some sort of a mental episode the mother made a decision to take her up to the hospital and have her checked the mother and daughter that brought her there left leaving Rory in the care of the hospital for whatever reason she ended up leaving before she was actually seen by a physician we see her exiting the hospital on her own that was the last known sighting we had of her foreign and we were we've been pulling back uh we probably pulled back about 10 pounds 15 pounds of like it looks like flesh type of stuff meat and I don't we don't know what it is the issue started several days before he didn't want any plumbers called um he tried snaking the drain himself he was taking efforts to fix it by the 29th it was getting so bad the smell the pipes were backing up into the people's uh bathtubs people upstairs just took it upon themselves to call a plumber the officers on the scene decided to knock on the door of Adam Strong's basement apartment they recall him putting his head down and making a comment almost instantaneously that the jigs up it's a body he commented to the resting officer if if you want the rest of her she's in my freezer and she's pretty defleshed and uh in fact was somebody in the freezer as Adam said Rory had a distinct tattoo she had the word alive tattooed on her neck and when they looked through the freezer they found a human head and there was a tattoo clearly displayed I knew right then yeah it's it's Rory we didn't know at that point what the cause of death was to lay that charge you need the grounds the decision was made to continue our investigation to see where it took us down you said to the officers if you're looking for the rest of her you'll find her in the freezer a question to you is the person in that freezer Rory I do plan to answer that question okay [Music] okay you're saying you're declined to answer but you're shaking your head this way does that mean anything no any interest for you at all and and telling us your side of things yeah nothing yeah foreign is that true after three hours of doing it it was clear we weren't going to get anywhere we were just going in circles obviously you don't care enough to help uh needed why do you want some no no I'm good yeah let's just shut it down now we could have sat there for another three or six hours I don't think we were going to get any different results really all I got from that interview was a sense of who Adam was to help us going further down the road with the investigation yeah thank you very much it was the worst apartment I've ever been in for clutter and dirt and mess you could barely move because of a few little walkways in there there was a number of sex toys located in the apartment restraining devices handcuffs and whatnot there was a bent Hammer we had located Rory's DNA on Roy's running shoes were located in a bag in the apartment there was blood spatter located on the wall and bottom baseboards leading into Adam's bedroom that knife's only designed for one use and one use only it's a knife used for by hunters for gutting and skinning animals to a logical person it doesn't make sense you keep all that evidence around but seemed to be the way Adam thought the DNA that was located on that knife it was it wasn't through blood it was tissue-like material we sent that knife off for analysis we will received the results back that knife contained the DNA of a second female the second victim was a 19 year old female who went missing in 2008 and very much like Rory she was out of the house on her own both victims were in their late teens and both victims were of more of a petite build longer you know brown hair almost a splitting image of each other she went missing 10 years prior and Adam went undetected for 10 years it makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up [Music] I certainly felt some pressure the reality is if there was no conviction and he was a free man how you doing good yeah I had better days all right Paul I have been amazed at how well I have been treated other than a few staff members at the eight sag and that's going to continue today yeah yeah I can tell you that I mean that's good that's wonderful you know what it certainly checked into how he had been treated thus far that's important to speaks towards admissibility addressed any needs that he had and he said he hadn't eaten so we took care of that [Music] story I certainly knew we couldn't rush into talking to Adam about the case given the fact how it went with the two detectives back in December of 2017 sharing the meal with somebody breaking bread with somebody it's a chance to bond and talk and then once um that had gone on for an hour and a half or so I started to talk about the case a little bit okay how much of her body did you guys get back obviously the entire skeletal structure right well we obviously whatever was in that yes in the freezer how much of it were you able to pull out of the pipes quite a bit it was it was bad luck yeah that's what I tell people they're like you're stupid kidding me well I just I just got greedy that's all Paul importantly doesn't React to what most people would perhaps react to which is a you know again a rather shocking thing to say every time there was a little bit of information given to me maybe even unknowingly by Adam strong inside I was giving myself a little fist pump only because I thought we were advancing the case a little bit here are you are you doing this well it's frozen or is it partially defrosted completely defrosted okay now that would take several hours uh no we're on a bathtub full of hot water oh okay yeah like within a couple hours I wouldn't wager I had to fill the bathtub up a few times let's be talking about no getting around he thinks and they are only talking about dismemberment and Disposal but in fact it's allowing the in this case the judge ultimately to make inferences about what must have happened during the actual murders that took place all right [Music] no but uh I probably said more than I should have probably yeah probably the judge watched the entire 12-hour interview went through it and the ruling came back quite clearly that strong was well taken care of he seemed comfortable his needs were all met there was no trickery there was no oppression this was essentially a slam dunk in terms of missability which is rare for a 12-hour interview foreign was convicted of first-degree murder on Rory and ultimately convicted of manslaughter on the second victim detective Mitten and the investigative team had a first degree murder charge and a manslaughter with no confession there definitely was a danger they pulled the indignity so if things went South in that interview room I I he may he may have walked that would have been a travesty it's really tough to describe Adam strong I have never met an individual like him it was a it was a tough investigation but we we speak for the victims we're trying to bring them Justice and and give the family answers the sentence he was given is the maximum sentence you can receive in this country so yes I feel Justice was served uh there airplanes stay on me Drew clear got blood in the kitchen right down this Hall we got one down showcasing on the floor as we were in the process of obtaining a search warrant we were able to determine that it was Laura Grillo that was deceased on the floor the lower gorilla was 37 years old she was very active in her community she was like this ray of sunshine she wanted to just make the world a better place she was gonna get married in a week Laura and John were together about seven years total together they have one child four years old and Laura has two older children from previous relationships he had asked if uh Laura was in the house listen to me it looks like a gunshot one that is all I can tell you you have cameras on the house yes do they record uh they used to I don't know if they do okay we did not find any forced entry to the residents at all and the rest of the home appeared to be untouched this did not appear to us to be a random attack somebody wanted her dead basically the goal was to confirm John's whereabouts on the morning of the murder foreign he cried quietly for about 60 Seconds motive for someone to come in the house a character I'll come over here somebody chose to come in that house the world that's what we're going to find out about news okay John answered my questions that he didn't owe anybody no money nobody was threatening the family they were pending a wedding and he seems to be excited he didn't stand out to be a suspect a lot of the people that we talked to described John as a very controlling person she didn't treat Laura very well in public we found out that John wanted out of the relationship with Laura but he also was trying to maintain possession of his daughter we were able to gather video surveillance footage from a couple of home improvement stores that John told us he went to that morning in Dallas which proved that he was actually there at the time that Laura was killed so we knew that he wasn't responsible for this himself but we couldn't say at that point that he didn't have some involvement in setting this up and we were able to confirm that a short time later he had met up with two workers in his construction business Jesus was John's right-hand man kind of his job foreman John's go-to person James said that he had only been working for the company for three weeks so he had barely met John and he likes me don't be late whatever on the way we were going to meet up at Home Depot um yeah okay both Jesus and James were very upfront very Cooperative uh very talkative the stories matched it seemed a little too laid back you know just laughing and joking around in the interview room some of that stuff didn't really make sense when his boss's fiancee who he had also known for several years was just killed Jesus told us in his initial interview that he stayed in Dallas the entire morning Laura was killed and his phone records showed otherwise what we found is about 8 26 he pinged a tower in Rowlett and the time that his phone hit a cell tower in Rowlett about a mile from Laura's house was right about the time that we believed that Laura was killed we know that James and Jesus were together that morning prior to them meeting up with John we wanted to talk to James again to let James know that we knew Jesus was lying to us you said this twice that you that Manuel went to your house about 8 30 8 45 but I've got information that puts manual somewhere else to be honest that time frame not at your place I have proof that he was not at your place that's what time he was at my place I'm telling you I've analyzed everything it was not there still even as we confronted him with facts that we knew he continued to deny but I classified him as a weak denial we knew that he knew something about the murder they still haven't released their dreams no I mean you know I hope not use with me now thanks they were clearly concerned about James being at the police department for so many hours and what he was telling us we were able to get in contact with a couple of his ex-girlfriends a former roommate of his and these people had Direct knowledge about Jesus being hired by John to kill Laura also we were able to get a tip that Jesus was in Florida and we provided that information to the United States Marshal Service [Music] hey James tomorrow with the Rangers how you doing James seemed to be very intrigued by the Texas Rangers he really seemed to to like dealing with the Rangers like talking to the Rangers [Music] I'm a little bit different than them because really all I do is homicides you actually remind me of the legend of the Texas Rangers that I heard about but the old Wild West days yeah yeah they're saying all these Marshals and shares in there and it took one Texas Ranger one Wyatt run one Ranger right okay Texas Rangers they're a legend here in Texas I think it made an influence on James in order to give more of the truth you see his arms are open he's pretty relaxed and that's a good posture to move in to draw in more the truth you're on the edge of the Grand Canyon right and what I'm going to ask you to do is take a leap of faith and trust me all right you're my friend right I'm trying to be your friend well I'm the best friend you have in the whole freaking world should I go get your pen and paper so how's the kickoff all right when um so first mentioned anything about this I disregarded it I've done it because he shows up in the morning and we get a car and we go now time I'm like I'm still thinking even when he gets there exactly how he does his thing I heard nothing and when he gets back in the car what does he say to you is that how I did it or um in the head right but it's pretty obvious that John ordered it yeah she ever say how much uh John paid him for it he was um boasting about something about 15 grand once James finally did decide to tell us what he knew we were able to take John into custody as well hey come on have a seat this was a well-planned murder and we needed to close this case we needed John to confess well let me cut to the chase a little bit Jesus is a dumbass all right at the end of the day you shouldn't hire a dumbass to do a job because he's going to screw it up all right and if he doesn't screw it up he's going to talk about it I don't even hire the dumbass that's my problem do what I do not hire the dog I do not breaking my money that's that's my problem for at least three years I loved here I still love him I said this I'm sorry oh I am sorry that my wife was killed I cried so many times I mean you're telling me that you know you're telling me that uh basically admitting that I hired him to do the murder that's what you're telling me am I telling you to admit that no I already know that you did that I'm giving you an opportunity to tell the truth I need to talk to Eternity yeah both John and Jesus were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole and because James did decide to cooperate in this investigation he was allowed to plead guilty to a murder charge instead of capital murder and he was sentenced to 25 years I was glad we were able to hold the individuals responsible you know accountable for what they did Carl didn't show up to work which was not like him at all he never missed work so people start calling and of course they called me do you know where he's at I was like no one of his friends started calling around and ended up calling the police when the Newton Falls Police Department arrived on scene they did not notice any signs of forced entry everything looked okay and they eventually contacted Carl's parents and they made an entry to the house foreign we found Carl located at the bottom of the stairway covered in a tarp and a comforter with gunshot wounds how I found out was my oldest brother called me from looking at the condition of the body the estimate was he had been dead two or three days we discovered he had three gunshot wounds two to the Torso and one To The Head and the gunshot wound sustain to Carl's Head was at close range it was obvious signs of Foul Play you know instantly apparent [Music] we were told that Claudia was originally from Brazil that in the late 90s she moved to the U.S became a naturalized U.S citizen Carl Met Claudia through a match.com and he dated her for a couple months and then for whatever reason he decided to run off to Las Vegas and go get married that was a little impulsive for him nine months into the marriage he started expressing some concerns about being married to Claudia he just said he wasn't happy with her and wanted to get away from her I believe she was taking his money that's what he believed so he started talking to me about wanting to get divorced there were multiple efforts by the police and others to contact Claudia Harry they could not connect with her nobody really knew where she was and so she was quickly a person of interest within a matter of a couple months we had Claudia located in Brazil but based on Brazilian law and the Brazilian Constitution they did not allow for their extradition of citizens to a foreign country even if they're suspected of committing a crime such as homicide so the U.S government they just ran into a brick wall Brazil just didn't want to cooperate Claudia was just living freely out in the open her belief was Brazil would never extradite her so she just got away with murder [Music] I was looking at a couple hours almost every night corresponding with the embassy I just really wasn't willing to give up that family never let go to the idea that anybody could get away with killing their son their brother our case was in the late 90s Claudia becomes an American citizen but she signs her documents taking Allegiance with the United States of America and denying her loyalty to Brazil that got us in the door I said I don't want her Brazilian ass I want her American ass it was a huge relief to get her back it was a big block off my shoulders [Music] out of the blue just uh mid-flight she says you know a wife doesn't kill her husband without a good reason put those of us on the plane in a really tenuous or unique position we don't know enough about the case to question her but on the other hand we have no legal obligation to make her stop talking and she spent the next couple hours of this flight telling the story that she wanted to have heard foreign [Music] right up here you kind of you gave these guys a statement about what happened that yeah partial partial partial statement okay great but I kind of want to start it again I want to I want to go back to March 15 2007. yeah kind of I I thought backwards it's going to start backward I spelled very I think uh interns I think what you had already talked to Tony and I about on the plane I think that that would be a very good place to start as soon as we got married but I didn't want to be married oh the suddenly he was a different person he scared the life out of me it's between me very very bad like very aggressive when we had he made me it was torture he tortured me during the interview Claudia was claiming to be a battered wife which we found no evidence of what she was saying didn't match what the detectives were hearing from any of his friends family former girlfriends in those cases where you have that type of abuse there is always always some type of corroboration in her case there was Zero um [Music] I never want to be a father I never want to have children I want a wife I said but I'm four years old I I can't I'm I'm not going to get an abortion you will get a boy one of the things that I noticed right away was how rehearsed everything she said seemed to be there were a lot of statements that she made in the interview room that were just verbatim just word for word what she had said on the plane even some of her hand movements it was it was like she had been practicing this story and that struck me as really odd after that thing starts filing out of control right yeah plane what occur I went to a flying firing the firing right because I want to shoot they have to understand about it I can't say that I I've really been made aware ever of somebody who bought a gun or obtained a gun to commit suicide that went to the shooting range in practice here's the thing from the aspect of an interview sometimes a lie is more powerful than the truth we just had to let her keep talking because the more that she does that the worse it is for her and he grabbed me he he grabbed my throat I myself he's very angry and I I said um that's a very uh good idea but just do me a favor go to the basement to that because you're gonna Splash my my paintings you're going to Splash blood all over my paintings I mean basically he scored you with his his paintings are more important than you yeah so you're pissed he asked what happens then well what happened next because I bet got very angry and I got up real fastly shocked shot what the that ham lying down come back over here please please yeah I was like I got up real fast I decided he was my plan was one swear to God now for a single single it was relief she confessed to shooting him now Mike could ask the tough questions [Music] let's pray the simplest question that we didn't ask a little bit easier just get a divorce I tried you wouldn't let me what was his story what was his answer thank you Mom change and lovely love you can live with your most beautiful woman in the world I love you that's where I'm Gonna Change I was sitting here thinking how can anybody believe this right from the beginning it felt like theatrics I think her narcissism overshadowed her intelligence and Common Sense and that when she walked out of that room that she probably felt like a winner foreign [Music] my personal belief is I think she wasn't real pleased that he had rejected her he wanted to get divorced from her I don't think she was used to that and I think she was vindictive [Music] Claudia was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of of parole after 28 years because that was actually one of the stipulations to the extradition you cannot overestimate the value of interviews and confessions [Music] it's instrumental to our convictions the confession brought out her lies which were contradicted by the evidence which in my opinion is the best kind of evidence to have I was relieved I don't take cases personally at all ever but this case was so different that I was happy to see some closure for the Harry family Sheriff's Office hi ma'am um this is Scott Dunford today at 3 24 327 and 328 I had three census trips and I've been out of town with family for a funeral my wife was home okay um I just got home and the board that I have over my back door has been broken so somebody has forced their way in and I haven't heard back from my wife I need a officer here now okay and what's your wife's name Desiree sunford when I rolled up to the residence I saw someone had their Spotlight on the house and he had a pistol drawn that person was later identified as Scott sunford and I asked him what was going on why didn't you go in he said I don't know what's in there it was a very odd answer to give I entered the house and I remember walking down the hallway and the first room to my left and they were bullet casings on the floor to the left I could see the body of Desiree sunford whoever shot her wanted her dead at that point when I had to exited the house and walked over to Mr sunford and we told him that there was a deceased woman in the house we believe it it's your wife I remember telling I'm terribly sorry I'm terribly sorry his Stone Cold look on his face seemed like it meant nothing to him and I told the detectives when they arrived on scene I think this guy knows something about this either he did it or he knew who did he was a 31 year old veteran in the National Guard he actually worked at the local training center for the military base here in Yakima County Scott informed us that he had gone down to the Tri-Cities which is about an hour and a half two hours south of Yakima to attend a funeral and he attended the funeral Saturday afternoon and then he had called Desiree said he was going to spend the night down there you mentioned that you got a bunch of alarm hits on your through your phone at like three in the morning he received the texts from the alarm company saying something had gone wrong or something tripped the alarm okay and so why not go in the house and check things out and make sure she's okay because I was afraid what were you afraid of when I saw that back door I I just couldn't decide whether whether I could deal with what I may or may not see it didn't make sense that a husband would stand back and not go into the house to see if his wife's hurt or injured you said you were in the military yeah 13 years 13 years did you get deployed in combat areas yeah we had a couple deployments before uh Iraq all right well I'm just thinking you're you're a big guy you're a 6'4 somewhere it's up there six four two fifty you've you've got a firearm on you you've been in combat I mean you've done some serious that most people will never do so if anyone's going to be willing to go charge it in the house and make sure their wife's okay it would seem to me that it would be you in my 30-year career I have never seen anything like this for a guy his size stature and armed with a 45 to wait for a police officer to show up to check on the welfare of his wife he's understanding everything we have to say but he's just not showing any emotion no anger no sorrow it just just not right you left Yakima about zero eight thirty on Saturday and drove down to the Tri-Cities and then you stayed at your dad's in Kennewick no I actually stayed with a friend but uh I see what's the friend's name oh her name's Paige she's a mutual friend was it just a platonic friendship or were in a digital sexual relationship with Paige you know I shouldn't go there because it's kind of rude but uh well Des didn't want me to say anything to anybody but at one point her and Paige had a little thing going for a while there a little experiment okay so so it was Desiree and Paige who had the sexual relationship yeah and but not you and Paige or something we all did sometimes you're in page too honestly we all did foreign the beginning of this investigation as we learn more and more we were finding out there was some type of a love triangle Paige blades was a 23 year old mistress to Scott sunford sounds like you and Desiree have a pretty open relationships no generally no just with her just with her there was a special relationship with Paige yeah we felt that we were not getting the full story it's a relationship between a mistress and a Gentleman and that he's his wife is dead okay how much is he involved or how much he involved are they both involved we suspected that Paige maybe was giving him an alibi that he maybe was not there that evening but his phone was not anywhere near the Residence at the time of the homicide even though he still our number one person of interest it just wasn't connecting him to the crime at the time [Music] a tip came through the local Crime Stoppers telephone Network and the person told us that the name of the shooter was a Marty Grismer and that he had killed Desiree sunford we had not heard that name anywhere in the investigation we need to confirm how this person that was calling us knew about this stuff and it turned out that it was Paige Blade's phone number if she knew this information why didn't she call us directly things are just not adding up Paige told us that Marty is a friend of hers that they worked together and he kind of takes care of her Marty was my best friend Marty and I started dating for a little bit until he found out about Scott and I told him I couldn't see him anymore he's the one that got me the house he bought my car outright with cash he pays he pays Insurance he's done my grocery shopping he's taking very well care of me at one point I believe she told us that he just worshiped the ground she walks on like he was obsessed with her he asked me if I wanted him to take care of this new woman like he did does and I asked him what he was talking about and apparently he decided that if the baby was Scots like it was supposed to be and Desiree would cause issues oh my God we were skeptical about what type of information she was providing is she throwing him under the bus or is she directing it differently for us to follow the Sheriff's Office received a phone call from one of the other managers was cleaning where Marty had his office and found a bag of gun parts so our team immediately drove to Moses Lake recovered the gun parts and took them directly to the crime lab to have him examined it was determined that this Barrel was on the gun used to kill Desiree sunford the bullets that we recovered from her autopsy came from that Barrel we had evidence in our hands that gave us enough to arrest him on the spot but we'd really like to have a confession what's your relationship with Paige oh it's been complicated over the years I mean she was the best to have a wedding so I mean she was my best friend for a while there were year two involved in a sexual relationship at one time not exactly you know we just filmed a little bit on there early on but I always take care of things really financially fixing up a house fixing for plumbing and finding a place to live moving about in there moving stuff out of storage is from how long the bills were running out on them I've tried to be there for because I wanted a relationship with her like a moth to a flame I kept going back and trying to help even after a long mother told me you probably shouldn't be a friend did you ever offer to kill Desiree Sunbird for Paige for anything it's not my nature maybe I want to discussed till another page no did she ever ask you to kill Desiree Sanford no Paige is saying that you want to learn who shot and killed Desiree Sanford she said that you confessed that to her and she came in and gave a tape statement to that effect I mean couldn't kill anyone okay you work at basic American foods and they said that you were suspended from work or having gun parts yeah that worked can you tell me about that what kind of gun parts are we talking about I had a gun barrel that I left there again Barrel yeah okay that's where it gets even worse for you is this gun barrel that we've been talking about that's the gun barrel that was in the gun that killed Desiree Sanford I've already retrieved that gun barrel from basic American foods and I've already had the ballistic analysis done on it and the Slugs that were pulled from Desiree's body came from that gun after everything you've done for her after all the money Blood Sweat tears and love that you gave to her and she turned around and chewed over you know and Alfred plea is he's not admitting to the crime he's not confessing to the crime he's just saying that the state which would be the prosecution has enough evidence to get a conviction foreign director contacted our 24 7 Duty phone number and indicated that the facility had reviewed multiple instances going back to January of 2018 and had identified inpatients who had suffered severe low blood sugar all of which with the exception of one had passed away shortly thereafter the victims in this case were all elderly males they all had various health conditions however the clinical expectation was that they were all supposed to be discharged death did not appear to be imminent some of the medical doctors found it unusual first of all that there were multiple non-diabetic patients that were dying of these severely low blood sugars there was no logical reason why their blood sugar plummeted to such dangerously low levels [Music] within a day of opening their investigation they contacted the local FBI office and we got involved through time cards work schedules and other records that helped narrow down the possible list of subjects or suspects that could be involved in the case it quickly became apparent there were a total of four individuals at the hospital out of 1200 employees who were there at each of the dates um for these events Rita Mays was an uncertified nursing assistant who worked in the medical surgical unit they referred to as Ward 3A she was responsible for taking the vitals of patients and take an outtake as well as taking glucometer or finger stick readings of blood sugar levels of patients uh it is 8 17 p.m especially here Gilliam here with Miss [Music] um in the initial interview you really just want her to do as much talking as possible so then go back later and impeach the information that she gave us our team was directly across the hall to just listen in we were putting the pieces together to see what we could make of of what she had to say are you ever administered insulin to patients no not at all no AIDS are not to give any type of meds and what about the med room do you go to the med room would it keep the medications and on in there is when I've been with a um with a nurse she denied being in the medication room alone which we knew was contradictory with what Witnesses told us previously and what's important there is that the insulin was stored in the medication room some of Rita May's co-workers on 3A had various accounts that stuck out to us as far as red flags she more or less did not act normal when compared to the rest of her co-workers there were some instances where she held patients hands while crying bedside with them as well too which a lot of the staff indicated to us was was abnormal I'm not going to find that what you're telling me I'm not gonna find that part of it's not true all of it's not true okay and yeah [Music] if we had to go to court I would swear to it would you be able to take a polygraph concerning this and pass it I will not take a polygraph why not why not I'm asking because I am in I have a torn ACL and I have constant pain and I wouldn't pass it okay the pain will make you not pass it yes foreign that Rita May's husband had been in jail during the times in which the murders took place of Rita May's husband would call her almost every morning after her overnight shift ended what is it oh yeah during some of these calls with her husband Rita indicated her struggles with her interactions with these patients morning I had to take over sitting one or the one-on-one and the one I was sitting with I wanted to freaking strangle why I couldn't keep you in bed they had given him haldols and that didn't work so they gave him two shots the hell ball and he still was wound up foreign the following shift after having placed that call and made those comments the same patient suffered low blood sugars again indicative of this patient being administered insulin two different occasions foreign we had a special agent from the FBI Behavioral analysis unit come out they offered for special agent Carrie Robbins to participate and to conduct the interview we had been prepping her for it just one interviewer in the room Shannon is the Jose yeah and I've heard that and I've heard that you're the go-to person you do exemplary work the interviewer does pay compliments to me that would really allow maze to agree with her and engage her in talking it builds a little bit of Rapport but it also makes Rita feel that she has the power in the conversation is whoever may have had a role involvement in this do you think there's ever a justification you're doing something I don't know why would be crazy to do something like that that's basically taking a life and that's not that's not a good thing not at all I'm here to listen and want to understand you and what happened are you saying I did something is how much you're trying to say because I didn't do anything whatever you did and change who you are it doesn't you're still that person I didn't do anything you would have truth after his day back promise to you will be sitting across you can see she's hunched her shoulders and and drawn her arms across her body as pretty defensive so to me I think she was panicking a little bit [Music] right after the interview there was a major payoff because within a few hours of that end of the second interview she actually buys a book called I'm dead now what indicating that she's having potentially some Suicidal Thoughts why because she's just been told she is the prime suspect in all of these cases it almost gave us more fuel to figure this out we're going to get to the bottom of this between the second interview in August of 2018 and October of 2019 the bulk of the investigative work was complete during that time period the investigation involved the review of hundreds of thousands of va employee emails years worth of internet browsing activity a review of hundreds of hours of recorded phone calls a review of other Electronic media and electronic evidence as well what we learned at that point in the investigation was that Rita would talk with other staff members on Facebook messenger and they would in real time be discussing patience and what was going on on the ward and Rita was referring to some of our victims what happened to this patient who was in this room and what about this patient so she was following up to see essentially did they live or did they die interviews were important despite not obtaining a confession there was no eyewitness no surveillance camera footage no murder weapon no DNA no fingerprint therefore the culmination of the interviews strengthened the investigation although we did not get the verbal answers and and the confessions that we were looking for just to be able to tap into the mindset of Rita was just as important emergency I put him in a shower to revive him he's not Revival please thank you hello what happened I don't know I came home in so much blood yes I need my man okay come here walk with me oh my God no baby oh my gosh please Ryan Lamb was uncontrollably emotional screaming yelling crying just wailing [Music] they determined that for safety's sake he needed to be handcuffed and removed from the scene please please it just came home mm-hmm as the police entered the unit they could see blood on the doorstep and on the landing they said that the apartment was in disarray it appeared as if there had been some sort of altercation there was blood on the bed Blood on the floor you could see foot marks and fingerprints on the linoleum once they got into the bathroom they found Ryan Nixon in the bathtub in a semi-seated position with the water running I think he was only clothed in his underwear Mr lamb had reported that Mr Nixon had poke holes in him we later learned that those were the result of being stabbed with a pair of scissors that we found in the residence ultimately it was determined that Ryan Nixon was deceased [Music] thank you now oh my God [Music] um I approached it from an informational standpoint and asked him what can you tell us about this situation do you know who did this so Ryan I know that you've told the other officers kind of what took place but uh I'm sorry I wasn't there for that can you tell me from start to finish I just recall it coming in there was like blood all over the scene or something had to go in and he laying right on the kitchen there's a wall that separates the kitchen from the living room it was laying up against that again scissors in his belly and he was bleeding really heavily from the back of his head how did his head get cut for help and like and he's he's buying it was fine Brian set up this one he said he was totally like conscious and like talking to me and said he was fine Mr lamb said that they didn't have a functioning cell phone so his first thought was to run to a local gas station which is quite a distance away probably half a mile or three quarters of a mile from where the apartment was to utilize the phone I guess Common Sense tells me that if you have somebody that has a pair of scissors sticking out of their stomach and has an injury to the back of the head why didn't she go to a neighbor's immediately and asked to use the phone to call 9-1-1 at least one of the patrol officers that had interaction with lamb and myself recognized that there were some marks on his chest and abdomen the marks to me it looked like a four-pronged fork I believe one of the patrol officers asked him about that and initially said it's not relevant he said it's a rash and he unbutton your shirt so he can see that there were a couple of them that had fresh blood as a result of the Poke marks which told me that they were fairly recent so it was not normal in my opinion and I wanted to know why what's that from it looks like a fork yeah what's it from success okay so we like to like put belts around each other's necks uh but mobilize I was completely restrained later on that's what we're into you one of the neighbors upstairs to Nixon's apartment told me that she heard two people arguing one of the voices said you stabbed me in the chest the other voice said well you stabbed me with a fork obviously that was significant to me because lamb had Fork marks on his chest and abdomen and Nixon had been stabbed in the chest with a pair of scissors learning that information as well as other things that I had gleaned from the interview I was fairly confident that lamb had played a role in Mr Nixon's death [Music] here's where we're at with this I just talked with county attorney's office and based on the information I have uh we're going to be charging you with delivered homicide oh my God whoa whoa whoa no man no oh my gosh I think that Mr Lam's reaction he was legitimately shocked I think that he thought he could throw up some smoke and mirrors and he'd be walking out of the back door of the police department that day and that didn't happen [Music] so I'm asking you I'm begging you here please explain to me what happened so I have a clear picture you know of of what took place you know I mean otherwise I gotta go based on the facts that I have I'm not sure so how did the boy get out by the front door how did that happen he didn't caught up like looking for me okay so you didn't leave him I didn't leave him in the shower I didn't even anywhere near the bathroom okay it's right there by the clothes and it was just so much blood and then he started like getting really back his head right there I thought he had like banged his head or maybe I poked him in the neck or something when he confessed to killing Mr Nixon it was somewhat of a relief for him well there's nothing treatment I guess that's like an accident it's gone like so bad okay oh my God Mr lamb used the scissors on Nixon and he said he didn't intend to harm him as bad as he did or certainly not kill him based on the information I had learned through the investigation had Ryan Lamb called for help sooner there was a possibility that Ryan Nixon could have been saved the autopsy revealed that there was a fractured rib the sternum was fractured also and then internal organs were damaged causing Mr Nixon to bleed to death the prosecutor felt that that warranted deliberate homicide because the level of force that was used lamb and his defense attorneys claimed at trial is that it was a domestic violence situation where Nixon attacked Lamb with the fork and lamb was defending himself with the pair of scissors lamb took an Alfred plea and what that means is lamb wasn't owning up to any culpability in this situation but felt that if the case were tried again that he would likely be found guilty it's never as clear-cut or obvious as people think with a confession but I'm happy with the job that we did I feel satisfied with our investigation in this case and I don't want to sound arrogant or boastful but I would challenge any other investigator to do more [Music] foreign driver yeah what this is the Postal Service they're supposed to be up in here I don't know if he's still breathing but if there's a gunshot through the front windshield oh man we've learned that one of our motor vehicle service drivers was shot and killed while he was in the course of his duties on I-30 we were able to identify the victim as Mr Tony Mosby he had been with the post office about 14 years 58 years of age at the time there was multiple gunshots to the front of Tony Mosby's postal truck one of the rounds had gone through the windshield and struck him in the face and that was the round that took his life [Music] her relative worked for the postal service and I think once they had learned Miss Mosby had died it was weighing on her [Music] today's date is February 21st 2018 um it's 11 48. Jessica my name is Derek Cheney I'm home with the Dallas Police and I'm Paul Ecker with the U.S postal inspection service and if you're on and interrogating anyone you have to make them comfortable she was very nervous uh you know very spirit because she knew this murder has been on the news she know information about it we really appreciate you stepping up and doing the right thing and being here okay okay you're not under custody right you're not accustomed you're free to leave at any point so all this is voluntary information that you're providing yes no one's no one's threatening you or anything to that effect okay foreign we had dinner there after we were done his cousin Donnie actually called us to see if we wanted to go bowling or or anything we had them meet us outside the restaurant okay and you say day who was off Donnie is the his cousin and Chanel is the girlfriend you know him by Donnie do you know why it's last night his feral all right tell me what happened we decided that we were going to go to a bar a lot of times people they're a little bit hesitant to come forward when it comes down to these investigations they always have a saying uh snitches get stitches so we want to make sure that they can talk to us and come forward about everything what happened we then left and went to CJ's Billiards uh we were there uh roughly until about 1 30. after that we we tried to go back to the hotel Chanel's driving okay Donnie was in the passenger seat there was a U.S postal truck in front of us she was driving very close to this truck she then swerved over to go around him we passed up this uh US postal truck um according to Donnie the driver of that truck slipped us off when I look to the right and the gun that Donnie had was sticking out to the my side of the window how did he position his body for his head and his right arm was sticking out of the window I had heard it go off how many shots did you hear um I roughly about three and all three shots came from the gun that you saw Donnie so correct do you have your phone now yeah could you show me a picture of him I sure can at that point we have now identified a shooter the barrel we already had an idea of what our challenges was we know that he won't deny he had any involvement but also he didn't know what we knew already it's all about that approach so that way they'll know me not just a guy with a gun and badge walking into that room knowing that everything is at state it's game time I need to talk to you okay all right you all right then so uh what's your name okay um where you from yeah yeah Los Angeles California I was born in West Covina California you familiar Lake yeah okay cool so the biggest thing when I walked into that room I wanted to make him feel comfortable so my my goal was to build a relationship with him and build a rapport with him in this case I know you were there okay I know you were there and I know really what happened but I want to help me understand okay what happened Mark yeah like I told you before everybody made mistakes you know you made plenty mistake I made plain mistakes all right but at the end of the day is men okay we all know we own up to what we we've done right and we move on uh all right so on the way uh from the the pool hall where juggle okay he kept using the term he was faded meaning that he was uh under the influence um he was trying to make me believe that he was so drunk where he just don't remember anything I knew that that wasn't truthful you think we just showed up at your house and pick you at the only means of food you think we did that just just because just out of random we say hey we're gonna we're gonna go we're gonna mess with old Donny Jr today you think we did that that ain't the way it works you know what I'm saying you're a young man man you got your whole life ahead of you all right but I need to know what happened did he make it that angry or was it just an X fighting news feed I was real real life yeah yeah the gun how long are you only gone you know that long it was not even mine it was given to me it was it was given to you who gave it to you some God and how what kind of God is it 38 at any moment he could ask for his attorney so I want to make sure to keep him talking to me the only reason I had it to be honest with you being honest when I was working at seven but that's why I was getting some because I was working and for the past while I mean that's understandable I mean you gotta you got to protect yourself all the time but we talking about this guy here but this man didn't deserve to die you know what I mean this man that that that you shot and killed this man was at work you hear me did you mean to do it no I did were you just trying to scare him or what was that was like my main attention was it just because he you thought he was trying to cut you off or what was it I mean in the same time trying to make no excuses you know I did what I did yeah kind of face of consequences there was I was intoxicated like I said I was so faded being like I was my eyes barely open and you get your finger and that that picture off and that's why you shut up so like where does this take when we show that Court no it's about yeah I mean this this is all the part of the the investigation you know what I'm saying Yeah well yeah I did did it like that what I'm gonna be honest with you boss had it been been somebody else I wouldn't even have told them we set the foundation where he could talk made him comfortable and that way he felt as if he can talk to me I'll be honest with you you're gonna be charged with murder today tonight okay but let me ask you this is like just help me I'm young I got my whole life ready I made this mistake how long you think they're gonna keep you know I don't know I don't I don't make them those decisions it's murder it's murder yeah he finally sank over in his chair and you saw his shoulders drop and his head dropped and it seemed like the full acceptance was finally there he realized this show was over there wasn't any more denial they weren't anymore covering it up foreign Hill Farm Road the ambulance okay what's going on the truck's fell on my stepson the truck's all on your steps and I don't think he's alive okay he's putting underneath the uh Truck Yeah my husband's lifting up the truck his chest is crossed oh my God Levi was 23 when he died he had left behind two young kids and was trying to make a life for himself after a troubled childhood [Music] Levi married very young he was a hard-working young man worked hard to support his family foreign [Music] I think most people would say unfortunate what a tragedy a 23 year old boy is killed for no reason she said she had heard from Carl's second wife Cindy Carlson and that Cindy had told her that she had left her husband and that she was afraid he was going to come after her and that she believed that her husband had killed his son Levi it was really kind of hearsay at that point but we decided to take another look at it nonetheless foreign days before the death of Levi Carl takes Levi up to a bank and he takes out a life insurance policy on Levi but with a rider that makes the value of life insurance policy of seven hundred thousand dollars when I first reviewed the report from 2008 there was no mention of an insurance policy of that money Carl just spent money freely and didn't put away any savings for Levi's kids we realized we need to take a look at this Carl Carlson and see what this person is really like in 1991 Carl and Christina lived with her three children in a very small house on a very rural property in the woods Carl said that the children were down for a nap and that Christina was taking a bath Carl was out in a workshead and he hears the screams he just said he managed to rescue his children and pull them out of their Windows of their bedrooms but he was driven back by the flames and the heat when he tried to rescue his wife I put a call into the investigator that was very passionate about the case back then any little animals broke down crying when he received my call oh my God I always dreamed that someday someday this call would come and here it is Kyle gave three different versions of what happened that day how that fire started he was a volunteer firefighter at one point so he has some knowledge of Fire he claimed that the dog had knocked over a jug of kerosene later he said that this light blew out there's different stories as to what the cause was but it was suspicious foreign claims that he had boarded this window up because the window was broken uh he used 17 nails Christina had a 150 000 life insurance policy on her at the time of her death Carl got the money and and used it largely to finance his move back to New York and kind of start over again with the kids the investigator said he was told Carl went to New York he's New York's problem now and we're not putting the money into this case anymore just let it go but he then said that he photocopied every single record and they're in a box of my basement go ahead let me take your paperwork real quick will you do that you want to be here for that that's right I'll just go ahead and take care of this you want to start yeah the onset is simply to focus on the death of Levi Carlson I was very nervous uh because so much was was relying on this this interview and there was a lot at stake here if he is the person we think he is then other people are at risk that was my the day that my son died her and I we had a funeral to go to left at 11 30 quarter 12 somewhere like that it was on the other side of Seneca Lake um some was there BL means we're working on the truck changing the transmission lines brake lines the whole nine yards went in gave him some money left wouldn't work went into Branch okay and um so we got done with it you know talk to him said goodbye and um so then we uh left come back a little after four and went out there then found it foreign they come in tried doing CPR and he was already gone went down the hospital we weren't at all surprised he was sticking his story you know a lie stuck to becomes the truth right if he doesn't falter off that it makes it difficult for us to put the case together we talked to nothing else is working we can try some deception now when you use deception in an interview it's allowable to a point but where that point is is in a gray area so you're taking a risk when you do it there's a big problem now we already knew there was no concrete time of death in this case Tom came up with this concept that through Medical Technology we were able to tell the exactly what time he died and we knew what time Carl had left yeah I wish I could say he died in your presence but when you walk back in there if you're being if you're telling us a truth and say you had a conversation with him you're lying because she was dead at that time I had a conversation with him I'll tell you that okay okay well he was he was either dead when he walked in there or as you walked out that's a fact you're feeling the pressure and you are not able to tell the truth right now if you really truly follow you what you did was right and which I think you did in a minute all right I did not kill people there's no way I could have but he was dead when I went in there okay you're doing great buddy I think he's not crying here he's trying to put on a show for the camera and for all of us that he's emotional here but the walls are closing on him that's what his body language is telling us John's connection with Carl is almost like a father son relationship that started early on into this interview we know that we have our best opportunity to get to the truth by leaving John in that room alone I let him down I walked away and I lived with that for four years you know you guys somehow you know pulled that out of me and in a way it's been a relief good it should be relieved never heard him it's good you did all right come on you're that close man you're close enough Let's Help I could tell he's right he's ready to tell me something really big here and um gave him all the encouragement I could I'll walk with you if you do what are you gonna do for me I'm gonna stand up and say this wasn't premeditated cold-blooded murder that it was just something that happened it happened sometimes Carl that's what I'll do for you I open the front door okay when they did it and if I didn't hit the box underneath but it wouldn't have happened Carl accent then why'd you try and hide it he comes out with his final version that he caused the truck to fall on his son and then basically walked out and left him dying on the floor Carlson is a sociopath pathetic human being and he was a budding serial killer I think he drives the high for murder I think he enjoyed it thank you foreign this wasn't a job this case this was about Levi this was about Christina it was about all the people that got their lives destroyed by Carl Carlson the scary part was he took out life insurance policies and his two granddaughters it's insane to even think that you could take out a policy like that and not inform the mother but he did it and I have no doubt there were next [Music]

Channel: A&E

Views: 15,330,662

Keywords: Most Viewed Moments of 2022, Most Viewed Moments Interrogation Raw, a&e, aetv, a&e tv, ae, a&e television, a&e shows, a+e, a&e full episodes, Interrogation Raw, watch Interrogation Raw, Interrogation Raw full episodes, Interrogation Raw scenes, Interrogation Raw clips, watch Interrogation Raw online free, investigators, investigation, police, court, cops, lawyers, court cases, mystery, best moments, best interrogation, best interrogation interview, best interrogation raw moments

Id: np09IR4ySxE

Length: 110min 46sec (6646 seconds)

Published: Sun Dec 11 2022