Detective Realizes The Victim Is Actually The Killer

[Music] yeah see the body [Music] yep [Music] what I think I think you've been lying to me this whole thing you didn't get them right I think you're alive or what I think definitely did you've got your freaking box you've got the dead gov gun man I'm telling you all I know is the guy told me that they were suspected the murder case the first thing that both in my head was that gun and I don't know what the [ __ ] is going on but I Wanna Know foreign this is Samantha Wolford a young mother a wife and an aspiring YouTuber turned ruthless killer hey guys I was asked to do a video 15 weird things about me she just arrived at the sheriff's office for routine questioning after her husband was kidnapped during an alleged home invasion it was an unthinkably sadistic plot the Abduction of a young father and a feudal race against the clock to find him before it was too late rewind approximately six years Samantha a single mother of 10 month old twin girls was just 19 years old when she met 23 year old Ernie iberra Jr who was known to friends as Dagan the two began a relationship which soon turned to marriage and eventually the couple had three children together although they were doing their best to get by in the small town of Mount Pleasant located in Titus County Texas the relationship was already starting to crumble it was no secret that the couple had their problems however it ended up escalating to a point of no return and no one had anticipated things would end in such a shockingly tragic way because Kenny 911 what's your emergency I have a home inviting my niece is tied up I I am at the birth of untying my niece at this particular moment because she's tied up she is tied up and dead and gagged so yeah is there anybody else there or where are the kids we have five small infants to sleep five small infants of sleep yes ranging from seven to one seven to one years old yes ma'am does she know um can I talk to her is she able to speak hello hi Samantha I know you're upset but I'm going to ask you a couple questions do you need EMS no they didn't do anything to be Baby Wise she's advising now now I hit her once okay David just asked my answers it was bruising or anything and she said no they hit me in the face okay um I hit you in the face yeah um they had me tied up and they drove me down the stairs to face my husband and when my husband would face me they hit me in the face right that can fight me and so he looked at me and then and they said I thought that would get your attention and I want you to stare at this woman do you want us to kill her and he said no and they said then tell us the truth and he said I don't know anything when someone gives way too many details on a 9-1-1 call this can be a warning sign that they may not be telling the truth the purpose of a 9-1-1 call is to get help immediately as Samantha is not currently in danger anymore her primary focus should be on getting help finding her husband instead of requesting that officers be sent right away to search for him she's telling an elaborate story about what supposedly happened there's no sense of urgency in getting her husband found if someone is lying on a call to Emergency Services they may feel the need to offer up all these additional details because they want to support their lie Samantha's love for acting isn't a secret after all I've always wanted to be an actress I think it is so much fun I've been extras in movies I've had small parts in in uh like short films and I've done plays I think it is so much fun and it is so beautiful it is the one of the the most amazing forms of art ever to be able to express yourself that way I think it's amazing members of the Titus County Sheriff's Office respond to the crime scene shortly after 2 A.M immediately an investigation into the violent home invasion and kidnapping of Ernie iberra Jr is launched the following footage is raw body cam footage recorded by Corporal Chris Durant and Deputy Ed Godoy just minutes after the Twisted crime took place Sheriff's Office come on I'm upstairs I'm sorry sir okay sorry okay are you still talking with sure you're here let me have it and I'll take care of it and you talk to them so walk me through what happened I don't honestly not asleep and we heard a noise and the second I was able to open my eyes somebody grabbed me and jerked me out of bed and slamming down on the ground and started tying me up I've been enough to me don't move okay [Applause] and I was just letting him do it and what's your husband's name I'm just typing around Ernest iberra okay the officer is conducting a typical investigatory field interview at this point however these statements can be admissible in legal proceedings the body camera footage can be reviewed by investigators and inconsistencies discovered between initial contact and later interrogation one of them did say the name Luke but that's it that was all it's only I did hey Luke and the doctor that that's the only identify Samantha changing her voice to imitate the alleged Intruder may be an attempt to dramatize the attack in order to make it appear more believable although her voice is emotional she doesn't actually Express much concern about Dagen and instead seems focused on telling the story about everything that happened to her it's discovered that Dagan's phone was also taken by the assailants they did they took his phone but they didn't take mine I had my knitted so I was able to so he's got his phone no they have his phone that's what I'm talking about what's his phone number huh well I need that number they cut my shirt off and then after they made me stand there naked in front of him threatening to do things to me the guy that said they were outside over here I was in the living room that he said get you a shark get it quick because I'm not this type of person so I started rummaging through my closet he said I said get it quick and push the knife against my throat so I just grabbed whatever shirt okay and put it on okay he grabbed my shirt and he started cutting it he cut it down the collar and then he said what's your name Samantha Samantha Wolfe where's that shirt at it's a downstairs what color is it it's gray sweater gray sweater okay okay yeah I've got uh the front door's been been kicked in as he dictates details of the crime scene to dispatch Samantha handles her own urgent business she sends out a text message that reads as follows hey uh this is what we need to do I need to do an emergency uh phone pane on yeah and I've got the cell phone number the phone service company is immediately contacted in hopes that the position of dagen's phone can be traced and Lead law enforcement to his location before it's too late was the spray paint already on the walls yes Halloween time and did that he's already been out here once over this they cut his hair off okay and you said also the pants you had on said you're gonna want something of your husband a chirped a piece of his hair off the turtle before he said those are his pants that he had on yeah yeah was it was the sweater you had on your floor on the chair okay I said I got another car pulling up let me go see who this is due to the fact that I was dialing with my nose I just stay out there for just a second for me okay well let's let's let's get this checked out real quick because right now this is the most important thing you know let's get this get this all figured out it is because I mean there may this may help you trigger something to help us you know [Applause] 0.86 miles from a residence [Applause] you know anybody Samantha does in fact know someone in Pittsburgh as it just so happens as the deputy continues to gather information from Samantha the Corporal speaks with Samantha's mother Rosie and Samantha's and Ginger how you doing just fine uh you're the one that they found her yeah okay so she called you first called me okay bound and gagged and then she called me we live in Winfield do we have any idea where her husband is that's what we're trying to figure out I'm assuming it has something to do with people that would be part of Circle that's the only thing I could possibly put together is that it had something to do with people you know Samantha says that The Intruders name someone she knows is the reason for the attack on her husband for this person's privacy is they were never proven to be involved in the case we have redacted their name throughout Samantha will continue to bring up this person's name throughout the investigation Samantha sends out yet another urgent text message at 3 19 a.m reading at this time investigator Chris Bragg arrives at the scene and the Corporal begins to bring him up to speed interestingly the investigator is immediately skeptical I've got a pretty volatile pass and we've arrested him before yeah solving her and the influence make sure she didn't do something determinary States the same to make it look like something happens the investigator is developing what's called a theory of the case this is the same theory of the case work that a prosecutor will do in order to paint a picture of the criminal activity linking physical evidence statements and circumstantial evidence to prove guilt Beyond A Reasonable Doubt please look down and you get cuts on the top of his head and they had him kneeling right here and it got part of his tear off when she was gonna cigarette over there after a brief surge of the first floor the Corporal then guides the investigator to the staircase that leads to the bedroom where the attack began I'm gonna kick the door to come up these stairs [Music] yeah that's the only part that's getting me is how do you they would have to either be familiar with the place to be able to do all that and know where they were asleep [Music] and the babies are asleep in there both members of the Sheriff's Office observe that the conditions in the home are not ideal for children to live in after viewing the area where all five children lay sleeping though the body cam doesn't capture a clear view pitiful conditions yeah I'm not really seeing a whole lot of blood though for somebody that was pistol whipped the investigator proposes they have Samantha come upstairs to provide more specifics I haven't seen it or anything [Music] we possibly got himself tied this that they kept saying caused this pause this asking for compensation twenty thousand dollars remember this it'll be important later on in the story the if you would just hope that hurts I'm gonna get some evidence bags I'll be right back and grab my camera I'll be right back are you it's trying to accuse me of something her story immediately falls apart here though Samantha's reaction is typical of someone caught in a lie however this is why all subjects under questioning should request counsel and refuse to answer questions police motives are not frequently known though it's common to start with a large pool of suspects and eliminate them rather than start with an empty pool and try to add likely suspects this means you're immediately classified as a suspect or material witness until proven otherwise during the investigation phase the Glock standard issued or [Music] can I see it can I see it can you take it out yeah then I gotta do paperwork really see comparatively to the government I had but the gun he had was a very big or his hand was a very small one or the other fit pretty closely to his hand size this is a very odd request given the circumstances it's noteworthy that in the midst of Samantha's chit chat with the officer she doesn't appear to stress that her husband is missing it's possible that this is her attempt to be friendly and distract the officers from the situation since she may believe at this point that police may consider her a suspect [Music] took someone from us the only thing I can figure is they're saying like art on someone they said something about now he's Behind Bars time to go to bed last night around 11. just a couple hours before The Invasion occurred next time she'll have a different answer to the question how old your babies yes one today you got four five they were in there squirming a minute ago um investigators are doing their thing Samantha doesn't seem overly concerned about her children but it seems she's already growing impatient with the investigation little does she know this is just the very tip of the iceberg at 6 10 a.m just a few short hours after the violent home invasion and Abduction of Samantha wolford's husband Dagan she arrives at the Titus County Sheriff's Office in northeastern Texas it's here that the disturbing story will start to unfold go to sleep Samantha places a call to her mother but displays almost no emotion during the course of the conversation she appears very self-centered and her behavior is quite strange for a woman whose husband is missing again Samantha gives her mother a food order over the phone it's surprising she has an appetite at a time like this She lays on the floor which is very childlike and is an unexpected behavior for an adult Samantha consistently acts like more of a high school student rather than an adult Mother of five Chris the investigator enters the room oh we heard anything I feel like there's something he hasn't been telling me but I don't know what once you get off I think it's something to do it what do you think would be going on I hate and I'm usually right and I hate that but that has a problem with getting involved in things that you don't need to be getting involved with Samantha seems to be setting up a potential motive as to why the attack and kidnapping may have occurred she continually brings up the same person in her speculations about what may have happened she been using any group yeah what about you yeah and I can take a test right now this is a convincing statement which can be a red flag for possible deception when someone is being truthful they're more likely to just provide a straightforward denial however when someone is lying they often feel some anxiety about whether they will be believed or not so they may add on these types of convincing statements to support their lie utenant no never been involved it's interesting that Samantha States she's never been a drug user however David Smith a former friend of both Dagan and Samantha alleges otherwise because there was one that come out there that drove a little silver Jeep Liberty he was supposed to be sunk into her supposedly but uh I found out later from Jeremy rule that he was her pill dealer needless to say Samantha's credibility is becoming increasingly questionable you hear about what team was when he was I looked up at the clock and it was like 1201 and I was like yeah you've got to get to that because you have to be up in five and a half hours true Samantha says she and Dagan went to bed at midnight contrary to the 11 o'clock time she gave a responding officer at the scene of the crime as you may recall already her story is beginning to change what's your first memory of what's going on well I took an ambient so it makes it a little harder for me to wake up and I have a prescription with me if you want to see that but when I can't sleep it's supposed to shut your brain off so you can go to sleep but also make it to where you can wake up fairly easy Samantha gives two more inconsistent statements back to back when someone gives inconsistent statements it can be a red flag that someone is lying after telling one lie there are likely additional lies that must be told to support the original lie it can be difficult to keep track of everything they've already said so Liars may get tripped up on details and give conflicting information it's possible that after she made the first statement about having a hard time waking up she may have been worried about how that made her look especially being a parent to five young children she may be trying to backtrack because she wants to be viewed in a good light so that her story about Dagon is believed of course I remember at some point it was a little after one if I saw the clock maybe on my phone so it it's still pretty foggy because it's fairly early to wake up after taking a sleeping pill nothing adds up considering she'd taken a prescription sleeping pill and was woken up Suddenly she shows a little emotion and talks as if she's reading from a script individuals who've been traumatized rarely remember details in this way of course this could be explained to Samantha trying to give the investigator as much information as possible in an attempt to find her kidnapped husband however the fact that Samantha has repeatedly given confirmation to the investigator that he can double check her story such as verifying her ambient prescription suggests that Samantha is trying to preemptively dismiss any suspicions the investigator might have about her story they said do you want to stop kill her too and he said no please don't please don't power my kids okay so we would touch a child I don't know if it was a tooth or it was just spit or blood it would smell because they had the lights on down there that's when they started cutting my clothes off and making me stand in front of a naked this part of the story seems to be fabricated the sweater she claimed to have been wearing had no obvious cuts she didn't recognize the voice I tried I tried listening to everything they forced him and told me not to call the police maybe he said don't call the police and they punched him up with the guy had said that's not what I said for me to tell her he said please tell me what to say again please just repeat it so they repeated it I couldn't understand what they were saying because they were so close to his face and growing in his ears all right he said Sam don't call the police I don't care what happens don't call the police because they'll come back and they'll kill all the kids promise me and screaming happiness however the five children nearby remained asleep through all of the chaos the police as well as Samantha's Aunt will scrutinize this assertion later you said something about your money or yeah he said what do I have to do please don't tell me what I have to do and he said twenty thousand dollars you want you want to do what you have to do can you come up with twenty thousand dollars in the next five minutes but he's kind of laughed it was just black I don't know anything about guns could you you know the difference between like a revolver and an automatic oh it was definitely like a police pistol it was whatever those are for me automatics it was small barely bigger than its hand you may recall that she had specific questions for the Corporal at the crime scene foreign the investigator now shifts the conversation to a different aspect of routine investigation it could very well be that this is where things start moving in an undesirable direction for Samantha punch and kick him stabbing nothing like that I'm not going to find out anything any different later once we get there because the deputies they're out there right now you know basically searching your house from top to bottom forever piece of physical evidence so we can find it anything that'll help them find it it could be a red flag that there appears to be a verbal and non-verbal disconnect here she's shaking her head no while giving her permission for detectives to search her house part way through this statement she switches to nodding her head yes possibly realizing that she made a mistake well actually that's why I want to make sure because we're going to be checking your phone records your family's phone records normally when the police want to search something the fourth amendment requires them to obtain a search warrant otherwise the search is unconstitutional and the evidence they obtain will be tossed out of court however the police can obtain certain types of Records without a search warrant for example the police could get a suspect's call records from their phone company normally This Record will only show the police what numbers a person called and at what time absolutely know the truth that you had no possible involvement in this whatsoever I do I wouldn't have gone back if I didn't what all were you willing to do whatever it takes no I know you know who we can call to find reason and the only one I can think is because they kept bringing him up he doesn't have no idea none her Palms go up in the rogatory position which indicates that she may lack confidence in her statement Palms up while making a declarative statement is seen as a big red flag because it suggests the person is pleading with the other person to believe them and may be unsure in what they're saying he doesn't have any friends I don't go out much the one friend that I do really have English and Sulfur Springs I don't like drama I don't like having outside chaos so I just stay home I'm gonna just stay at home Samantha continues to attempt to steer the investigation towards the same person she named she portrays herself simply as a stay-at-home mom however her homemaking skills seemed to be lacking based on the condition of her house as the police observe the environment in the home is obviously not fit for children in a report later drafted by investigator Chris Bragg who is currently questioning Samantha Vivid details of the terrible conditions in the iberra household are laid out the rooms are unclean and unsanitary with trash urine feces clothes and dirty diapers scattered on the floor I'm obsessed with like making sure an animal is being taken care of the way it deserves to be taken care of they're like children they can't take care of themselves Chris describes the children as dressed in dirty clothes and appearing not to have been bathed recently we pick back up as Chris continues to press Samantha and I'm watching this guy punch him in the face with the guy over and over horrible I was hysterical boy she didn't didn't make you feel good no because you told me that you felt good about you wanted to stabbing killing at some point in time everybody loses their temper but have I ever acted out and hurt anybody no and you can look at my record on that when she says you can look at my record this is what is known as a convincing statement when someone is lying they may make statements such as this that sound compelling in order to convince the other person however someone who's telling the truth is less likely to use convincing statements because the facts are on their side I have one cat a criminal mischief and that was because I tossed my keys to somebody who let him use my car and they didn't have a license now when they cut your shirt off you have I mean was it violent or did they just yeah no well they jerked it out and started slashing at it with this apparently dull box cutter and when it didn't work it ripped it off over my head into it to the side no they started cutting like they were going to cut it down or across and the blade wasn't working so they said I ripped it off over my head but as far as tonight you had nothing to do yeah what I need you to do for me is um make me a list of everybody you know friends family contact numbers um his boss where he works at Little Caesars his boss we worked with the tackle Woodcraft the investigator exits the room and leaves Samantha to her list a few minutes later Sheriff Tim Ingram enters the room and tries his hand at getting to the truth with Samantha and this is why that it's very important and we want you to be honest because I'm going to tell you what the evidence were found on the scene it's just not matching I don't think you I don't think you harmless boy but I think you know who did because it's like when kidnapping why is there his blood in your speaker kidnappers ain't gonna use the pickup to do something with him and put him out there and put him in the truck call him back yeah his pick on me is what yeah somebody which apparent to me that somebody used your truck when someone is feeling especially anxious their mouth and throat may become drier which can lead to increased throat clearing swallowing or coughing if any of these behaviors start or increase suddenly it can be assigned to detectives that they're on the right track and need to question the suspect further Samantha's cough here could be related to this she may be panicked about the news that blood was found in his truck and the cough is an attempt to reduce the discomfort and dryness she feels in her throat you're taking somewhere else I told him that they got into his truck because they wanted his ID because they said they needed to verify 100 they had the right person is what they said I don't know if they were one of the people that hit him or not they sent somebody out to the truck to get his wallet to check his ID came back in and said yes he is who he is and when I still don't explain why his blood is in that truck they hit him in the face like a hundred times well no but you said they went out and did it and got it he was never supposed to be in that truck if he had if they had blood on their hands no no it's [ __ ] blood it's not it's directly yes it was in that truck and this is what's going to look so bad is is from from your story and this is this is fine you don't you don't have to be a suspect and and I still don't think you did it I don't think you're strong enough to do it but I I personally I think you're scared I don't know if you had a boyfriend he found out about the investigator is attempting to establish the existence of accomplices and from there the existence of one or more conspiracies okay um I don't know what the deal is but but but Sam you you've got the campus in the same room it's telling that Samantha says she's being as honest as she can this may be another convincing statement it sounds reasonable but someone who's telling the entire truth likely wouldn't feel the need to make claims about being an honest person in addition Samantha's statement here may have some level of truth to it she's being as honest as she can be without incriminating herself adding on as I can may be an exclusion qualifier which allows her to tell the detective some of what happened while withholding information about her specific role in the crime there's just a whole layout of your house and the way you said they took him um it's just it's just not making sense the interrogator is doing a good job of appearing neutral despite the evidence pointing to Samantha being dishonest with him he makes it out as if he is on her side the more she trusts the detective the more likely she will be to confess okay foreign okay I'm telling you everything I know I'm repeating everything that I've said right okay you've got your statement we'll get back with you again okay you can you can look at my record I'm not somebody that gets into trouble sit right there and tell me the same story just like you're telling me and oh they try to convince me and then in the end when evidence come in they sit there and wing all over her life we know how long the story was made up detectives want suspects to think they know more than they actually do or that they're about to find some crucial piece of evidence leaving suspects panicking about how much police actually know investigators want suspects to feel the time pressure to confess implying that it's in the suspect's best interest to do so before it's too late I will be the first person to come forward because I want it down so how well let me how did you call for help he's tied up I use my nose so they didn't take your phone in they left your phone there yeah if I had a phone and I told him no and they asked him how'd you get to it on my side where was it where I was on this side of the upstairs and it was shoved up underneath the edge of the bed on this side of the upstairs who did you call me my mother was the first number on my call list I just used my face and so instead of calling 9-1-1 for help you called your mother how do you press 9-1-1 with your face well how did you dog your mother with your face I didn't dial my mother I just pushed the first thing that was on there it just happened to be my mom although Samantha May believe this is a reasonable explanation you'll encounter another witness who will tell the sheriff's office that they observe Samantha with her phone simply laying on her lap in the aftermath of the attack next the sheriff wants to hear about what's been going on in Samantha's personal life well now now see here here's some I don't know else I don't understand maybe you know explain to me you talk to how much you love Ernie right but though you're talking to Brian you're talking to Alan huh no do you think that's normal for many people to um nowadays in general I think more people our age I wish I could marry somebody like my dad he's great to my mother there's nobody else ever that could turn his eyes from her he's the perfect husband God knows I didn't marry one he cheated on me more than once then I think every once in a while a year that I'm beautiful and to hear that I am an attractive person and that I am not the most horrible person in the world it's nice this could be an attempt to not only justify her actions and talking to other guys but it could also be a deliberate attempt to portray her husband in a negative light she's hinting toward verbal abuse by claiming that he would tell her how horrible she is this seems especially unusual given the fact that her husband is still missing most people would avoid speaking ill of a loved one who's missing a recently deceased she may be setting up a possible defense if it's later proven that she was involved in his disappearance yeah Ernie ever look at your phone yes tell them to say did he say those messages before you've been talking to them yeah what do you saying nothing I didn't particularly like it but after what he put me through he told me as long as I didn't bring anything home or do anything at the house then he didn't want to hear about it he didn't want to know about it I told him I'm not cheating on you yeah these guys tell me I'm beautiful and they tell me that I'm you know and I go out to my mom's house and I go to the bar and I go dancing earlier Samantha claimed that she didn't go out much and was just a stay-at-home mom now the detectives are questioning her about the guy she was talking to she suddenly changes her story she may have given the first statement because it supported the narrative she was trying to weave about how she was a homebody who didn't know anyone who could be involved in her husband's disappearance however now the detectives have evidence of her text with other guys she needs to support this new narrative and yeah I may have a little too much to drink and someone says Hey can I have your number and let me give it so but that's as far as it goes Samantha seems preoccupied with others recognizing her as beautiful given her repeated use of the word to describe herself this could be a possible indication of her having narcissistic traits anyway sorry like this little button came up on the corner of my screen and I pushed it now my lighting is different and it's making my face look all splotchy and I don't know that I like it I'm a little vain I guess a narcissist requires excessive admiration she may have felt like she didn't get the recognition from her husband that she felt entitled to so she sought out that attention from other men hiding in your in your statement you might want to just go ahead and ride in there after you talk about what happened to that you might just want to talk about to put in there that you have been friends with because who's to say one of these guys didn't set it up to try to get you where you're single and I could come in and get you and just use that as a point yeah and that's what I'm saying I may know something without even realizing and I know something the detective is laying groundwork for the theme development stage of the Reed technique by suggesting that one of the men who was interested in her had something to do with her husband's disappearance if she can admit to this possibility it will be easier for her to later admit to having knowledge of it and then eventually to her confessing that she was actively involved when the sheriff mentions that perhaps one of her male acquaintances set this up to make her single she grasps at this idea as another motive she may be realizing her story and acting aren't going over as well as she'd imagined once again she's the victim it seems she'll do anything to deflect attention from herself in October things blew up he laid his hands on I put Criminal Trespass on him not on his sister because she was acting crazy and harassing me my friend David Smith had talked to me earlier said he might come by later that night I told him it's probably not the best idea what Ernie going to be there um who's this David Smith he called in and reported that that he was there then when he realized that I intended on giving him the chance to be the better person he says he's going to be and to go through the criminal trespass or the uh anger management courses and go through and do what he says he's going to do and I'm going to give him that chance out of home on his own without having a judge to force him to do it a lot of angry issues yeah yes is he very jealous of you this is different than what she said earlier about how Ernie told her she could do whatever with whomever as long as it wasn't at their house Samantha appears to enjoy being in the role of the Damsel in Distress and having David Smith and these other men come and save her from her allegedly abusive husband this is another example of Samantha's need for attention which is common among individuals with narcissistic personality disorder yes um David Smith because me and him had been hanging out I hadn't intended on ever hearing from Dagon again Ernie I had never intended on speaking to him again he cheated on me and he laid his hands on me I was young well his sister talked to Talked his way back and he said he said he loves you blah blah blah he wants to be with you well I was on a Skype conversation with him and David was at the house and he heard it that's what he did he got freaking Furious and started freaking out on me and treating me like crap and threatening me David this guy that was a friend and only a friend wanted to be with me and when he realized that I had intended on going back to my husband he freaked out I need to find out where David lives if you say this close to you I need to find out where he lives at it I uh there is one of the way that we can make sure absolutely sure and clear you uh we can give you positive test would you mind me speaking to my mother before I completely agreed to that um well but now if you have nothing to have why would you want to talk to your mama because it's nothing against you personally but just cops in general you hear such negative things and how they are not out to help you and CPS is the same way and I just kind of want to get my mom and dad's opinion on if it's in my best interest you know what you know what I think I think it's not gonna be longer I've been locking your butt up what I think so I think you've been lying to me this whole thing you didn't get them right I think you're a liar what I think I think you know exactly who did this and I don't mind your freaking story for a minute that's what I think so I'll tell you what Let's do let's just get on with it it seems that the interrogator's anger is an intended tactic here it evokes the desired reaction from Samantha but it can also be a setback to the overall interrogation's progress any trust created is now gone this is a changeup used only when there is overwhelming evidence against the suspect hearing this Samantha may be experiencing the freeze response here her body is completely still with her mouth hanging open when someone senses danger such as Samantha realizing here that police don't buy her story one bit they may cease all movement this is an instinctual response to Danger movement invites attention so freezing may make someone momentarily feel like they can lower the spotlight on them that's why I say I've tried to really be honest with you whole time if uh I'm gonna tell you right now DPS is damn good then if you ain't got nothing to have and what bothers me is you even hesitate to take that moment it would positively clear to you or to positively show that you're having something but what's going to make you guilty is when we prove that you loved us in here the sheriff indicates that lying will essentially make her guilty this is somewhat misleading though as stated previously the police are legally allowed to mislead suspects so long as they do not coerce them into a confession nevertheless the inconsistencies between Samantha's statements and the evidence could be used to suggest that she is aware of her own guilt and is using lies to cover it up therefore the investigator is trying to establish knowledge of guilt or more commonly referred to as consciousness of guilt this is most often established by circumstantial evidence related to the suspect's actions or inactions after a crime I do know who did it and why they did it okay doesn't that make me like an accomplice nope you sure don't now that makes you a scared mother with children interestingly Samantha asked the sheriff about being an accomplice the law usually treats accomplices just as it would principles meaning that accomplices can face exactly the same legal penalties Most states hold a person criminally liable if they aid or abet another in the commission of a crime the classic example of this is a getaway driver for a bank robbery importantly this is a distinct concept from conspiracy a conspiracy is when two or more people make an agreement to commit a crime and at least one individual within the group takes some overt act towards committing the crime in such a case all conspirators are criminally liable for the conspiracy I feel the other thing I don't I don't even know I know okay I didn't open the hospital's message for what okay she's gonna go out there and I swear to God I cannot go up there that I said any of this okay because they have a lot of friends around here and my life will be in a long time change okay oh but the only other thing I know is minting the bird talking number about problem like I just told you I have a problem with talking to my friends about our problems I don't have many of them so when I do get with one of my friends I want to talk about incredibly problems we might have had and honestly lately it hasn't been many okay and we have had problems in the house and I hadn't seen Charlotte in a long time you guys scroll with it and she's got this guy in the room with her and he's talking about how a man shouldn't treat a woman that way and how you don't do those things to a person and he's going to deal with the situation I didn't take him seriously okay you see Sam you know who did this but that does not mean that he did I just have what he said okay who is this guy his name's John John who his Facebook is Rebel John Rebel it's uh John uh I don't truly know his last name but his Facebook says John Rebel at this point it seems Samantha's crying could be attributed to the fact that her story isn't yielding the results she'd hoped for rather than because Dagan is missing this behavior is consistent with her narcissistic Tendencies at this time Samantha first mentions an acquaintance known as John Rebel herein begins a turning point in this complex story as a new persona begins to evolve um he's got a brother named Greg he's got a really bad history as far as who's Greg I was told he's an informant I don't know Greg's last name where does John live I don't know um I know he's been staying with Charlotte so if he did this who do you think he'd bring with him I don't know any of his friends but yesterday at the hospital he had a guy that you know from town with him his name is Tay who K rhymes Samantha's beginning to let all of the cats out of the bag in just a few short minutes she's implicated John Rebel who will soon be identified as John Sanford and Tay whom investigators will learn as a man by the name of Octavius Rhymes the pace of the investigation is beginning to accelerate and will continue to pick up speed as the disturbing details begin to surface to let you know that there was them inside the house there was a [Applause] thing when you're in the hospital so far before this happened in my house yes today was with him there was another guy I don't know his name but he pretty much puts the middle of the third guy those three people yes at the house there was three people and at the hospital yesterday you can look at the cameras there was three people so they have on the video camera there at the hospital the hospital yet there was Tay and that guy and his third party the one that I said was basically like the ringleader that was blocking everybody around the other two really didn't talk much other than a word here and there but it was the big guy the the third party that was at the hospital she claims not to have known the third man at the hospital but she's prepared to shift all of the blame in his Direction the only thing I know about the heavy set dude is I called him JoJo but they told me that wasn't his name they said they I believe they said it was Samantha reveals quite a bit about this third person Samantha gives a detailed story about where JoJo lives and knows that everybody calls him JoJo despite saying just moments ago that she just met these individuals also another significant item to note do you recall when the Corporal at the scene learned of a ping on Dagan's phone from dispatch [Music] he asked Samantha if she knew anyone in Pittsburgh and she had no reply well it turns out she did Tay and JoJo were both residing in Pittsburgh she heads out for a smoke break as members of the Sheriff's Office prepare to head to the local hospital determined to intercept two suspects that have been frequenting Sharla's room for days both John and JoJo were apprehended at the hospital at 9 39 a.m as you'll see each interrogation will be damning to say the least the clock now reads 10 10 a.m the other party that was picked up at the hospital by the Sheriff's Office a man by the name of John Sanford AKA John Rebel is seated in the interrogation room he's dressed in black pants and a black long-sleeve shirt the clothes matched Samantha's description of the assailant's dress provided to law enforcement clearly John is quite comfortable here he may be thinking that if he engages with law enforcement they'll believe him or go easy on him you know exactly what it is you know what happened at this house last minute that's what we're gonna that's what we want to talk to you about okay I'm on randash you know you're right you'll have to talk to me if you don't want to and that's fine I hope you decide too because I think there's some things you probably need to tell me your shot of the story they said it's going to match Samantha's because Samantha Jojo she should use with him now do you want to talk to me just a little bit about this yeah okay well let me tell you let me tell you what they're saying first because I I think you'll be honest because uh our Bear's dead he's he's dead uh but now um according to Samantha he was just a bystander why children will be delivered crap over my front of the road before God would love and collecting evidence anytime there are multiple suspects involved in a crime police will want to separate them as soon as possible so they don't have a chance to get their stories aligned police May often plant the seed of doubt that the others are implicating them leaving each Suspect with the decision dilemma of whether to confess or remain silent the detective is also utilizing a read technique here of placing blame on an outside Source rather than on the suspect himself this will make it easier for John to admit his involvement because the detective is building the theme that John was just a bystander and not the main perpetrator additionally in this situation it's likely that there are no real bystanders from a legal standpoint under a theory of accomplice liability if the prosecution can prove that John aided or abetted the murder of Degen Jon would be in the same legal Jeopardy as the person who pulled the trigger okay this our story yesterday like he said yeah we talked to her about her problem with her husband and all that never did I plot to kill a guy I had a problem with males hitting females and I do too she did say that there's been times it's crossed her mind to do stupid [ __ ] this and that [ __ ] what like basically like give somebody to [ __ ] them off like not kill them but like just beat that on set them up [ __ ] like that right and I told her I said well now I said you're talking to somebody that could do that but I wasn't going to though John now begins his account of the previous night beginning with a quick stop at Samantha's house JoJo had the keys he's pastorship your front yeah who's driving I drove because okay who was with you it was me Jojo and the dude in the back seat I have never seen the day in my life except for I do know I all I know he was related to Tay yeah sometimes who he is John indicates that someone related to Tay was in the back seat and that tay wasn't with the three of them in the car I sh I'm okay let me rephrase that I have seen him because I have been running around Pittsburgh but unless they live on Cypress Street I don't know who they are okay okay we'll go ahead y'all all three together so you're driving but you didn't have the keys they didn't have the keys I really didn't have a choice because I like my life John seems to be trying to suggest that it was actually JoJo who was directing the scheme and now seems to be implying that JoJo threatened him into driving notably duress can be a defense to some crimes however it's typically not a defense to the crime of murder Jon gives his rendition of what occurred at the iberra home uh they go in uh I'm the only person that knows the layout of the house I just walked up stopped and thought man look upstairs they didn't go up I have to go up in the man with JoJo me and then the last dude we go and that's when all her bracelets beat the living hell like a dude honestly me personally I do not believe Samantha really had a hand to playing it I think that what she was saying just kind of got two two four okay we'll have a new beat the hell out of you JoJo another guy John is awkwardly using his hands as he talks despite being handcuffed people may increase their use of illustrators to make their lives sound more believable or give off the impression that their story is true Jose JoJo Ponce is in the hot seat needless to say things aren't looking good for Jojo who's now dressed in Orange prison attire Jonathan is uh uh really putting he's putting this whole thing up on you and said that you're the one that the ones that go in there and he kept saying that you're saying something about like maybe not a bad dope deal that went bad to him I don't even know that's a matter of fact I specifically told them when she when she told me who her husband was right there in octavius's House when she told me his name I told him I don't even know who they are I don't even know him judge I said well what do you think you can do you think you could come up with 20 grand in five minutes John mentions that JoJo demands Dagen produced twenty thousand dollars within five minutes if he wants to fix things this is almost exactly what Samantha told the police this could be because it's true however if you watch Samantha's interrogation footage it's clear that she's trying to paint the incident as drug related [Music] and this may simply be a story that the group concocted to tell the police JoJo telling me I stay here and watch him dudes out hold I'm talking about folding up inmates be like literally like this when we got outside the house they had him up against the truck and still behind the back had his face down like this what part of the truck the hood in the truck okay that makes sense that's where okay the investigator catches himself here just before he almost lets out a piece of evidence retaining key evidence as a way to corroborate testimony and also to tie physical evidence to one or more suspects they went through the truck and at this point when I started thinking damn what are they what the what's really going because they put the dude in the back seat so we go we leave as we're going we're gonna tell me I go here go here whoa I'm driving we go all the way up to the country get out to the country next thing I know they walk off go start the vehicle I'll start the eagle he throws me the keys found my so that's why I want to make the video going in my mind process this is my neck of the woods now you know where you're at yeah this is my name because we're fixing to go out there me and you we're going back out there uh because everything you're saying so far is matching 100 before I make the vehicle all I hear is pop who's got the gun Jojo note that John is named Jojo is the trigger man as you'll see there won't be a consensus when it comes to this brutal aspect of the crimes Hey listen man ain't done they've done everybody want to pull the trick that's what I'm saying the other than I didn't who pulled the trigger there Jonathan despite claiming that John pulled the trigger there are still at least two ways in which JoJo could still be criminally liable for the murder first under a theory of accomplice liability if the prosecution can prove that JoJo ate it or abetted or had the requisite intent for John's murder of Degen second if the prosecution can prove that JoJo had entered into an agreement with Samantha or John to carry out the murder he could be charged with conspiracy to commit murder the sheriff seemed satisfied that he's gathered all pertinent information from John he leads John out of the room the next task is the somber duty of locating and recovering Dagan's body Sheriff timing Grumman investigator Aaron Baxter along with their helpful suspect John Sanford depart the sheriff's office as Chief Deputy John Livingston follows closely behind in Aaron's vehicle Aaron wears a body camera to document the events that are about to transpire before warned things are about to take a drastic turn for the worst as members of the Titus County Sheriff's Office begin to uncover the true Horrors that occurred earlier that very morning [Music] who's gonna know this Castle I'm getting quick before he tries to do anything to what everybody calls because the sheriff asked John who will be able to identify the mysterious third party known to us only as cuz we'll soon learn his true identity yeah see the body computer yeah [Music] definitely did okay what we need to do now oh yeah he's dead he's not gonna be alive what we need to do now is two of us need to break off and take him and use a recorder and let's go get that gun sadly dagen's body is located at 11 28 a.m Aaron places a call to the camp County Sheriff to alert him of the murder within his jurisdiction meanwhile back at the Titus County Sheriff's Office an anxious and fidgety Samantha has returned to the interrogation room the clock now reads 11 45 a.m it seems Samantha hasn't been informed that Dagan was located deceased approximately 17 minutes earlier while the members of the Sheriff's Office are locating the potential murder weapon Samantha occupies herself by riding on the dryer race board in the interrogation room just as Samantha leaves the room as the clock reads 11 58 a.m Aaron's body camera recording resumes the Sheriff John the suspect and the two investigators Aaron and John head to the home where the gun is believed to have been stashed note that the woman Seated on the front step of the home is Lacona Slayton her connection to the case will be revealed to you shortly [Music] [Applause] all right thank you I appreciate you being here nice dude hey John where's that guy uh it was out here but it's apparently not happening who got it all right I don't know y'all arrested me quiet it out here I don't know no I swear no I don't have the box and the boxes no clue about nothing I'm telling y'all right now so I I mean here's the deal all right we need the gun you could be uh you could be charged with the same thing she would I know you could be an accomplice to murder capital murder that's the death penalty so if you know where the gun's at she knows where the guns guns that I just told you that okay I'm gonna give you one more opportunity that's probably about to happen because I think you're a liar oh you've got your freaking box you've got the dead gov gun support the gun go then I don't know why'd you get the box I don't care man are you you must be about as low life as a husband of yours and husband well you with him about the same thing whatever the sheriff in Lacona are referring to Jojo here you know oh yeah you remember enough come on get that box that gun is don't you know I remember to come home and check the box okay so the gun's not in the tent I don't know go check [ __ ] I don't know is it okay if I check this yeah after a dramatically heated exchange with Lacona the sheriff and Aaron head to the tent which currently serves as lacona's home to attempt to locate the gun a search in this case does not require a warrant when someone with a controlling interest gives permission to search a premises including a tent it's an exception to the warrant requirement back at the Sheriff's Office Samantha is again riding on the dry erase board as a couple of written questions are directed at the sheriff's office she continues to put on a show these behaviors are once again very childlike and immature oftentimes individuals with personality disorders will display immature behaviors in high stress situations in particular they often regress and these behaviors become much more evident [Music] [Music] there you go right there I bet you can see the dope or the gun a gun well the hell would I tell you to go look in the tent it wasn't in the tent right well I don't know where the uh all we want is the truth and I'm telling you all I know is the guy told me that they were just making a murder case the first day that my head was that gun it was not in the [ __ ] but it was only that and I don't know what the [ __ ] is going on but I wanna know okay well just like the other officer told you we're investigating a murder all right there was a guy killed last night he was executed they weren't supposed to have it was he no convicted felon or yeah okay obviously uh you know that that guy's got a family and and they're going to want to know what happened to their their son and father I mean the guys got kids young kids [Music] and so we just want to We're just trying to gather the facts up and and get Justice for this guy's family [Music] is there anything that you can tell me at this point that would help us with our investigation that if I think he would have did something like that hold the gun out on you before yeah all right no I've prayed but damn I didn't thank you I was gonna split up with them like this this important piece of information which was uncovered due to the officer's catch-all question may explain why Lacona didn't reveal the gun's location it's possible that if she did know where it was she kept the location secret for a much different reason than avoiding trouble herself or protecting someone else instead she may have been fearful of retaliation from JoJo if she talked we've yet to hear JoJo's side of the story but it's going to be hard to dig himself out of the hole that seems to be getting deeper by the minute the members of the Sheriff's Office depart with the recovered weapon that was believed to have been used to execute Dagen investigator Aaron Baxter sits down with Lacona on February 24th just four days after Dagan was killed during our last encounter with Lacona when the handgun was retrieved near the tent that served as her place of residence she seemed to insinuate that her days with JoJo were numbered however she initially referred to Jojo as her fiancee at this meeting it may be that she had a change of heart and decided against ending the volatile relationship after all as a result she may be less forthcoming in her interview than the sheriff's office would have hoped you don't know the day when we were over there [Music] I just had that feeling I just said it was a feeling because because I don't know it was just a feeling and you said you before yeah [Music] when it comes to other people he's not he's not I mean he's he's a talent that's when it came to me it was different other folks he was an account he always back down for five people and I just don't I don't see all right because it's so interesting I don't even know it as far as I knew Jonathan was the only one that knew and then I found out Tay's number Jonathan's known JoJo didn't know her so why why would she be Lacona seems genuinely confused about the conspiracy and why JoJo would participate seeing as he hadn't met Samantha until the day before the murder according to Future testimony provided by John the three men smoked methamphetamine while enroute to the iberra household perhaps this claim could explain the violent Behavior seemingly uncharacteristic of Jojo so why don't you ever found that gun in my team I promise you didn't where do you think I found it I know exactly where you found it which isn't a spot that Jonathan hit it dropping Buddha bear seriously yes JoJo seems to believe that by knowing where it had been hidden he can somehow pin the murder on John he he hits him with it for a job near the best way up yeah whose pistol is it John's where'd he get it foreign clearly JoJo's story is not agreeing with John's version of events most significantly JoJo claims the gun that was allegedly used to murder Dagen belongs to John though JoJo is unsure where or how Jon obtained it all right and again we got out from under the house I guess it belonged to Jose it was mine it was a gift to me from him it was mine okay most importantly perhaps Lacona confirms that the handgun that was recovered near the tent belongs to her in JoJo not John what I need to do I've got Samantha's version Samantha is the ring lady I never met him until yesterday so you just up there with Charlotte and them that's when you met that's when I said I missed I met Samantha and um I met her five kids we all left we get to Walmart we're at Walmart for a little bit all of a sudden that uh Octavius Rhymes walks up to me said man I gotta go I said why because I have my mom just called me and cussing me I tell him I better get them call when Jonathan took me home that afternoon though Octavius was home Octavius ended up leaving with Jonathan they left together me and my wife stayed home all of a sudden I love the seven or eight at last time they showed back up this time they showed up with Octavius Jonathan Samantha and her kids Jonathan pulls me to aside thank God I didn't talk to you I don't know what's up he's like look okay he says matter uh wants us to you know do something and he wouldn't tell me for details fantino we went to the place all of a sudden he tells me he said look I just need you to stand on jojo describes what is called a criminal conspiracy between himself and John to commit the crime of kidnapping another important Revelation is Jojo's claim that tay was a willing participant in the conspiracy despite Samanthas and John's initial reluctance to implicate him it turns out that old cuz was actually Tay all along Let's Hear It Straight From the Source meet Octavius Tay Rhymes whose identity Samantha and John attempted to conceal initially Tay had requested a meeting with the Titus County Sheriff's Office with the intention of getting a deal in the works however Tay was informed that he'd need his lawyer to handle the negotiating with the DA's office while seated with investigator Wayne minor Tay went ahead and pleaded his case I was a vicinity when they took the dude from his home I had no I realized that that they plan on doing like I said yeah I know y'all background history already background I would have a Phillies no I've never been able to see a stroke like this ever you know so I'm trying to work with y'all better I can't really give y'all no more information if no there ain't no deal on the table striking a deal is quite common in criminal cases especially those with multiple defendants often the prosecution will offer a more lenient sentence to the accused in exchange for the accused providing information to the police or agreeing to testify against one of the other defendants however it's important to note that a criminal defendant cannot make a deal with the police only the prosecutors are authorized to make deals with defendants therefore any sort of deal that the police make with Tay wouldn't have any legal effect unless of course such a deal was approved by the prosecutor's office and then and then but she whistled that means she was downstairs because like I said me Octavius and um how she whistled he's like uh her mom just called she said she's uh that a friend she's sending a friend over to to see her or whatever something like that he's like so she said we got to go we need to go now JoJo claims that Samantha told them to move quickly records indicate that she called her mother to alert her of the attack because her mother's home was an hour's drive from Samantha's she assumed that would give the men ample time to leave the premises with Dagan what Samantha didn't anticipate was that her mother would send a nearby Aunt to a rescue there's no way JoJo could have known this bit of information if Samantha wasn't in on the ruse and uh so we left they arrive at a secluded area that serves as their destination hey look at me I'm looking at him John it was back at us Jonathan pulls it out he's holding it all of a sudden I tell him man dude you're too close to you you're free to take the man's life and you're too close to the road change looking changed like man you really are I said it's gonna be loud this moment is key as with this statement JoJo may have just admitted to being an accomplice to Dagan's Murder By admitting to the sheriff that he told John to move further from the road before killing Degen prosecutors could argue that JoJo attempted to Aid John in his murder of Degen leaving JoJo equally culpable for it and I'll be right back while JoJo waits for the sheriff to return he's well aware that the camera is still rolling you know the future okay I went because he asked me for help so you know what time the that they took Samantha home to be honest I believe it was before me or not but I couldn't really change the time I don't I don't remember the times I think it was before midnight though because she was talking about how the kids were getting sleepy and she needed to get to the house something about her her man was sleep or something and she didn't want him waking up and getting mad no question about it Samantha has been caught in a lie cell tower records give us the real story despite Samantha's attempts to deceive law enforcement her phone wasn't near her home until approximately 10 30 pm on February 19th just a few hours before The Invasion a major development in the case occurs just three days after the murder of Degen though it would be a stretch to say it came as a shock Samantha is arrested and charged with aggravated kidnapping and murder in the end the failed conspiracy resulted in lengthy prison terms for all involved John and JoJo pleaded guilty the following year in April of 2016. they received 50-year sentences for their roles and Dagan's kidnapping and murder months later in December of 2016 Tay went on trial it didn't go as he'd hoped however he was found guilty of murder and aggravated kidnapping and was sentenced to a total of 93 years last but not least came The Mastermind behind the whole terribly designed plot Samantha went on trial for dagen's murder in September of 2017. not surprisingly she was found guilty she was sentenced to 99 years in addition she received another 50 years for the kidnapping to be served consecutively with her murder sentence to this day it is still unknown who pulled the trigger and killed Dagan

Channel: EXPLORE WITH US

Views: 6,336,612

Keywords: documentary, true crime documentary, educational, analysis, psychology, law

Id: YDoZVqlMdrA

Length: 78min 46sec (4726 seconds)

Published: Sat Mar 25 2023