Interrogating Armed Robbery Suspects | Police: Suspect No 1 | Real Responders

i don't have to say [ __ ] i don't have to say anything did you shoot that gun where did you shoot it when a crime has been committed did he hit her in the face there could be a gun up here anywhere detectives must first identify a suspect it's covering his face as he goes past it got this girl here still looking back as she walks away yeah that is bang in the middle of the crime time next they must search for rock solid evidence the offenders were wearing balaclavas gun is crucial isn't it juries are told you must be sure but it's so difficult to hit that test then they must put their case to the test face to face with the suspects in the interview room we often sit in a small room no more than two or three feet between you and the person who has raped murdered burglars stolen here's a little bit of a game i guess chess poker you move one piece they move another one will the evidence stand or fall will the suspect tell the truth or will they manage to hide it they will do anything say anything we are lied to frequently they can muddy the waters in any way they want some noises and says it's recording this time detectives face a suspected armed robber facing years in jail first of all we still talk about burglary two men entered this property they keep the back door in went into the house pinned the idea to the bed 300 machetes asking where's the car keys where's it safe where's the guns where's the catch did you throw in that poor old lady did you throw the chopper armor [Music] [Music] june 2019 a series of armed attacks have been reported over a single evening hi guys first two offenses are the robbery of the mini and the possession of the knife the second incident we're looking at is the possession of the firearm that's where he's chased the farmer shooting the guns the violent rampage began when a woman was attacked in her car by two men one armed with a knife norfolk peace emergency go ahead caller is that the police yes i'm not going through the car that's just fallen off the lady two young guys just looking into it yeah is he okay to speak with me my car wasn't locked because i hadn't started the engine yet and then the one got in the passenger seat with a knife i heard screaming i ran around the corner and they were pushing her off of her car they had a knife she was holding off the door and they were driving away three hours later the stolen mini turns up near a norfolk village a farmer's family hear gunshots nearby and go to investigate they discover two men armed with a shotgun as the family confront the men they open fire and start to chase them with the gun the family managed to escape but the stolen mini gets stuck in a field and the two men can't get away so they smashed their way into a nearby house and at gunpoint steal the keys for another car they put a fire on they've taken the car they smashed the front door this glass everywhere they fired a firearm i don't know who they are they fired it into the house is somebody coming it's an absolute miracle no one's been killed so if i get the secrets of events right they've tried to get in they've been forced back they've stuck the shotgun through the gap in the door yeah shot it into the ceiling correct they've smashed the glass to then reach in and get the keys to the set exactly the investigation will be led by detective sergeant dan hedges that's so important in the early stages you do worry that if you don't work hard and fast you won't get that evidence you know that person is out and about and couldn't cause untold harm to others whilst you are carrying on that investigation the police have been hunting for the second stolen car a black passat is this the car you talk about and they find it abandoned less than a hundred meters away a man is acting suspiciously trying to gain entry to some flats step away through the door just about here for me please sir open the bin oh boys he fits a witness description of one of the suspects when his possessions are searched the police find evidence to link him to the crimes the bank card is to tesco club card bank the bank card belongs to the victim of the carjacking of the mini that makes the man rashal alam a potential suspect [Music] rashau alam is someone who is originally from the london area that has settled in norfolk he has come on our radar for drugs alam also has a previous conviction for a firearms offence the detectives now have one suspect but they need to find the identity of the second man involved and they get a possible lead an off-duty detective spotted a well-known local criminal christie cartman just moments before the mini was hijacked close to the scene these are the two offenders that's mr alan that's christy cartman and they're just walking past the tescos and as they walk past there that's um john who's just come off duty and he does a double take because he's clearly seeing christy cartman and he's just double checking just to make sure that is seen see the other angle so you can see his knowledge of the camera because he's covering his face as he goes past it so he knows it's there so he's clearly trying to hide himself christy cartman is a character we've known for a while dishonesty offences thefts burglaries and stealing he is a career criminal he tended to do industrial or business burglaries so he knows what he's doing he's not stupid he has experience with cartman now a suspect the police track him down to a flat in norwich a full firearms team is called in since cartman may still have the shotgun and could be prepared to use it christy keep yourself nice and calm i want you to come to the door with nothing at all in your hands please i'm not arguing i can't find the key i really can't find the key christy listen to me now yeah listen if you don't find the key in the next two minutes we're gonna have to come through that door you've got two minutes my friend christy yeah you found the key please come christy straight to the door now nothing in your hands no christie i've listen christy we have been fair giving you that time now come straight to the door with nothing in your hands christy come out of the door listing come out of the door now he's just showing himself at this window he's now coming to the door kristy up [Music] stay there stay there stay there stay there while the suspect christy cartman is taken to custody officers search the flat for weapons there could be a gun up here anywhere okay matey just stand by and eventually a shotgun is found hidden behind a water tank two suspects are in custody now the detectives must search out the truth and find evidence to prove it before they confront the two suspects christy cartman must both be interviewed within 24 hours of arrest then either be charged or released so the detectives need strong cards to play when they confront them face to face first interviews are going to be really crucial it's going to be a really important part of where this case goes the planning and preparation is key we're looking for evidence that links us to people discharging a weapon we're looking for evidence that connects people to vehicles or locations but actually we don't know what that is that may be something left left behind some cctv it could be anything detective lee mariner is pinning down the chain of events in the village where the two armed attacks took place just want to see the location the distance between where the firearm was discharged and where the mini was discarded so down here is blackfoot hall farm um if your witness describes that they're on a this lane going down to the farm in this in the mini when they're challenged by the farmer and somewhere around here the mini's been discarded after he's obviously got trapped in the mud yeah they've obviously left on foot straight down there so you see in the distance we've got the 30 mile an hour signs going to stay cut across just up there it appears obviously over there they've discharged the firearm discarded the vehicle the mini after being challenged by the farmer makes me think that they actually walk down this road into the village and not through the field they're clearly looking for transport out of the area sharpish with the gun possibly loaded anyone could have been driving down here they're gonna probably stop the net the the whatever car was coming you know there could have been children elderly people in the car i have been confronted with that then to break into this house and shoot the firearm in someone's house it's just uncomprehendable really as well as the shotgun items have been recovered from the stolen cars and the crime scenes the forensic results won't be ready in time for the interviews with the two suspects but dan has obtained police dash cam footage from the response car that rushed to the scene it might have captured their faces as it came within inches of stopping the second stolen car it's dark the vehicle here has done the right thing slowed down because this could be a member of the public so slow down to let it pass and almost at the last moment they've realized it's a passat and it bears the index of the sat that's been stolen they've bumped it but that's as much as they're able to do can't see her face at all in daylight you'd have been able to identify the offenders and that's great evidence um it's just unfortunate that it's dark and it's in an area that's got no street light in you're never gonna be able to identify the person driving [Music] any piece of witness evidence could be crucial to the investigation any any descriptions of the males children the farmer who was in a very difficult situation he had the presence of mind to take pictures of the offenders these are the pictures he's heard what sound like gunshots a vehicle that appears out of place and two people that look suspicious he has no idea what's going on it is a fantastic piece of evidence unfortunately for mr alan he can clearly be seen [Music] this just shows what an awareness um mr carmen has his first thought when he's having pictures taken is to cover his face very similar to when he's walking past tesco's at least you can see he's a white male so if you haven't covered his face great evidence wouldn't have needed to do any of the forensics but mr carmen is clearly aware nose is very important he doesn't get his face captured and so he's covered it up [Music] today the detectives must confront both suspects the stronger the evidence the more cards are in their hands we've got some excellent evidence against the farmer taking the photograph of alarm in that stolen mini within a hundred meters of where the passat was found alain was arrested possessions with him link him to both the mini and the passer it's actually a very strong case against yeah seem to be a bit wiser yeah and he has a balaclava on his head but it's rolled up so it's not over space but it's clearly a balaclava good but he is again put his hand up covering his face for when the cameras have been taking so he's not identifiable from that thank you for the update it's welcome anything more gives a shame thank you appreciate it is to be interviewed first but whilst in custody he's been spitting at officers and refusing to cooperate we'll interview it but uh i don't think he's going to be very receptive to us i suspect we're going to know comedy prime if we can actually interview him at all we've got some good links to show that he's really involved in the case so that's great we can go in knowing that we're in a really good place alam refuses to come out of his cell to be interviewed but the officers must still put the allegations to him [Music] my name is [Music] so far refused to come out for sale for anything um yours that tried to speak to you a while ago um do you know anything about a robbery that happened i'm going to heard at 18 20 hours that's the 10th of june and that was the problem with the black me [Music] is there anything that you can tell me about that were you involved [Music] it's very rare that we actually get witnesses to actually photograph the suspect in the middle of an offence so i'm happy that we have the right person already the evidence we already have i believe is enough to charge him anyway whether he he makes any admissions or not the interview with christy carmen is different to rochelle alam because we just don't have the same level of evidence against him at this stage at the moment the odds are massively in carmen's favor i can understand why he wouldn't talk to us because his view will be the police don't know nothing they can't prove anything yet i'm not going to give them any kind of footer to get that so i'm not going to do that i'm going to say no comment he will know not whether he's committed these offences he is probably trying to piece together what we actually know and how he can perhaps come up with any version of events to show he didn't have an involvement in it i need to remind you that you are under caution so you do not have to say anything but it may harm your defense if you do not mention one question somebody should later align in court anything you do say may be given an evidence the strategy for the interview with cartman is to cover every single element where was he at this time was he with this person make sure we don't miss a thing trying to get anything from him that can help us if they see a particular area that the suspect is finding difficult and clearly uncomfortable because we're hitting a nail that he didn't want us to hit then i would expect them to keep hammering a nail some cctv has been located see if you want to take a look at it so is that you is it not you is there anything obviously you can see on there that just tell me now that that is not you you'll come up christy were you in the area but you haven't carried out this robbery because if you are and you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time tell us okay the evidence here is pretty damning you've been identified on the ctv i think from that evidence i'm happy to say that you've done it is your opportunity okay so we're still talking on monday now going to 9 18 in the evening and at stoke holy cross is that you no comment if it's not you to know who it is so did you shoot that gun did you shoot it what was your intention here so anything at all you can tell me about this gun being shot into this house [Music] at this stage a no common interview will probably work in his favor he hasn't admitted to the offences he hasn't given us any further details or any evidence into what's happened which means we're still in the same position where the only evidence we have is what we've gathered beforehand and we won't still then i believe being in a position to charge you as i'm sitting here now probably instances happening am i going to get the blame of mean well no and this is this is the point the whole way through christy if you can tell us where you were at the times of these incidences then we can rule you out can't we no come on but you've chose to go no comment so we can't look at alibis or put you somewhere else when we don't know where you are well in that case um we will end the interview it's the same day and it is now 16 29. cartman will remain in custody for now on separate less serious charges but the team don't yet have enough evidence to charge him for the armed robberies we've got a really good suspicion that he's committed these really serious crimes but we can't prove it at the moment we need to find that crucial piece of evidence that golden nugget so the next time and there will be a next time that he sits in that interview room being questioned about his offenses we've got him [Music] they have elected to make no comment throughout the interviews so effectively what they're saying to us is it's up to you guys the police to prove that i have done it to build convincing evidence against cartman and rashala lam forensic tests on their clothing and the two stolen cars could be key but with resources tight they can't test everything right guys thank you for coming in to see us what we want to do to have a quick catch up adam's fire alan was pretty tired to be fair yeah yeah i don't know he's not the issue no but there's gotta be trying to get enough to and get christy our main problem at the moment the identification was negative yeah and so we were struggling so the gun is crucial isn't it yeah but we're still playing devil's advocate the gun was found in an address that quite a lot of people have access to three weeks later yes yeah so dna wise from the money we'll be sending the swabs of the strongbow account okay there was false plates on the front and there was a metal screw so that's the mini that's the priority for the mini yeah i believe christy to be the driver here we know he was the driver in the mini right and we know the police officers when they saw the passat the driver had a balaclava if we can show that he was wearing the balaclava in the mini and then post brick road we can link him to the agave burglary with a shotgun as well yeah that's what's my gosh a lot of the time people like mr cartman are very clued up when they commit crime they're forensically aware they will wear gloves they will make sure they wipe down crime scenes they will make sure they don't leave fingerprint marks they will make sure they don't leave dna so they are very aware of police investigations and police tactics a lot of the time you'll get items back and it's a negative result we don't know if we've picked the right ones we could choose 50 items and the 51st we would have sent off we don't send off and that's the one with all the dna on it the shotgun found when christy cartman was arrested is a crucial piece of evidence and detective lee mariner thinks he knows where the gun came from there's more to this than meets the eye these two just didn't rock up that night and start causing violent mayhem i think they may have been responsible for a whole string of violent burglaries two weeks before the armed rampage two men smashed their way into a house in a norfolk village there was a woman alone inside one man held her hostage with a machete while a second ransacked the house they stole jewelry and four thousand pounds in cash so this way your sister was yes yeah they held it here with a hand over her mouth for about an hour and a half now yeah the thieves also stole a shotgun that was locked in a gun safe and concealed in a cupboard the gun safe was here i think for what i can see this has been sawed through taking the whole floorboard with them yeah a gun case was found in a tree just by the armed incident with the farmer lee wants to know if it matches the gun stolen at the earlier robbery right so i can't take this out of the bag okay that's what we forensically preserved for the lab all right so is that yours yes so was was the gun inside this tiles yeah so inside this case it was inside the gun yes that was all right thanks for your time thank you the link makes christy cartman a prime suspect for the machete burglary as well [Music] and that gives the detectives another opportunity to shift the odds in their favor in rural areas there aren't many phone masts but it's still possible to track the path of individual phones as they move across the countryside he's firing he's hitting the cell mast just north of bhutan on the day of the offence yeah they go up about 12 o'clock yeah they're in that area for about an hour yeah on that visit and it's hitting this amassed here and a mast here yeah now perfect tim lives there because that is very good until he says oh yeah my brother would have my phone for those couple of days i didn't have my phone it must have been i don't know we have got to prove and consider all his potential defenses how would he explain that how can we disprove what he's saying if we can for example put his phone in bhutan at the time of the offence how can we prove that he had his phone forensics remain the best hope of turning the tables on christy cartman in an interview and some key results have come through yeah all right i've got some more forensics back oh nice quickly alarm and christy carmen case the first one they've got results for is for the short gun so that's the dna yeah and the dna of christie carbon is found on the shotgun and does it say in what amount it does it's only it's a lower level of the possible contributors it's good but it's in the address where he was anyway so he would just say i'm in and around that address and so if the guns in around that address that's how my dna got exactly there was a screw piece which was in the the stolen number plate on the mini that was examined that's a negative for any dna yeah and then the last thing is the swabs that were taken from the strong bow can that were in the center console got to have something and exactly that's the one i'm really hoping for a good result on for christy cause we always have already have a lamb yeah and and the results are on a lamb so it's a lamb was drinking from that one unfortunately not christy as we were hoping [Music] without a doubt i believe that chrissy cartman drove to boot and smashed his way through a back door threatened that lady with a machete and stole those guns [Music] without without a doubt in my mind however we're led by evidence [Music] at this moment in time i can't say that he's committed that burglary which is a shame all we've got the minute is circumstantial ultimately a defense list will say well you've got him in the area you haven't got them in the address you've got that gun but you've got no forensics linking to that gun you cannot say that he has actually physically handled that gun and that is our leak [Music] it's one of those things and part of it is detective that's part of what we do for a detective there's nothing more frustrating than someone who you know has committed a crime walks because you haven't got enough evidence it's happened to me it will happen again in this case we're really going to work hard to make sure it doesn't i really want to send off the detective's last hope is the balaclava that was found in the second stolen car cartman's dna has been detected on it but that's not enough they need to prove it was present at one of the crime scenes so they need more help from csi the forensic team have only got limited capacity they've got to balance not just this job but hundreds and hundreds of other jobs where items have got to be sent off i have to use my powers of persuasion in order to convince them that these items should be sent off we haven't yet charged christopher with anything at the moment we have christy cartman just prior to the first offence and then at the the end of the offenses where he's been arrested at the shotgun and the address what we don't have is him actually evidentially linked to any of the offences in the middle right now so the balaclava that was in the passat at lee's job in bhutan the offenders were wearing balaclavas okay the vic they spent about an hour in the address the victim was pushed to the floor and she got a small cut to her lip didn't bleed that much but didn't bleed so what are your thoughts with regards to that balaclava and then the victim's dna and sending that off and seeing if any of the victims dna is on that balaclava i mean that's all sorts of long shots isn't it it [Applause] tiny little cup would have had to have the tiny cell blood project that way onto someone's face or as they're pushing her to the floor with their face with with their hands on the face and then they've got a sort of tape of their balaclava later on that's better i just think if it's a tiny cut on a lip yeah it's just the longest of shots okay that's fine so we took a glass sample from brickell road and we've got that so seizure's from christy cartman he's got two pairs of socks two pairs of long pants and boxers so he's obviously very cold this night so my proposition is to send off those items for glass samples please you're always asking for extra i know but i put forward a good case she did i think we can do a glass screen okay um yeah i think that's probably a good idea cool when's the next run to the lab what is it tuesday today it's friday but i don't think you'll be able to turn around by friday it'll be next week fair enough all right we'll crack on then cool yeah thank you thank you we need that little bit more luck with the glass in the clothing we put all our eggs in one basket in many ways [Music] we're all hoping that that forensic result comes back positive we're kind of in the lack of the gods three months after a series of violent armed robberies detectives still lack the evidence they need to corner their second suspect christy cartman their best hope is to prove his balaclava was present at a key crime scene and the test results have just come through the balaclava that was submitted that was found in the passat that we already know has christy clarkman's dna on it yep that was sent off for analysis with the glass yeah they've got 10 samples of glass and of the 10 they've looked at nine of them match the type of glass that come from ripple road exactly percentage of that glasses from that crime scene that's an excellent result for us awesome okay cool thanks mate you know we've had the balaclava that's come back and it's got um glass flagging straight in it and all the glass fragments which is good so how does it and it's got carbon dioxide and they will have a second ace up their sleeves for the interview room his dna has also been found on the handbrake of the stolen mini now we had the forensics back for cartman valaclava the glass on his clothing nine out of ten particles in his clothing come back to stoke holy cross and that burglary that's great that really puts him there we can interview christy cartman again a couple of months ago all the cards were in his hand things have changed now he's no he's now in our favor we've got this evidence if he chooses to say no comment that plays to us that plays right into our hands armed with their new evidence the detectives are ready to play their hand and confront christy cartman [Music] but could cartman even now escape charges if he can find a way to cast doubt on the evidence he spent the last couple of months in prison on remand um thinking about what's gonna happen next he knows how serious these allegations are when he sat on his prison cell he could have thought about all the possible scenarios of evidence we could collect and how he can explain each and every one there's all sorts of answers he come up with he might be able to give an alibi or someone that could say he was elsewhere [Music] i mean he could perhaps say that i went to a friend's i know he has a firearm license and he showed me a gun he might say yes i own lots of balaclavas i happen to lose it around that time if the jury have a doubt then the law says they should find them not guilty so they can muddy the waters in any way they want the detectives will wait for the right moment to reveal their best cards and this time no comment won't be enough to save him [Music] making some noises and says it's recording so okay christy this vid this interview is being recorded on the body camera [Music] so there's some from various tests and on the handbrake of this mini your dna has been found [Music] can you explain this i'm [Music] this driver here if you can see he's got black pair gloves on so my dna is in there and you're saying that's me my dna should be on the handbrake as this person's me driving with her black leather gloves or something black gloves which you can make that are very clear but there you go you go i see what you're saying but why are you wearing gloves when you stole the car from guernsey right there do you know anything about this shotgun your dna is be found on it can you give any explanation to that my dna is on those yeah you said you haven't touched it or seen it i'm not only doing these on that did you wrote about a club but yeah i think somewhere along the line on barley club with you and why do you own about a farm which is exhibit tfl 23 was also examined for glass and it was found to contain a lot of glass shards from the glass door of british road and the scientists have said that whoever was wearing that balaclava would have been present when that window was so we've got your dna on the balaclava and we know that that balaclava was present by the aggravated burglary so did you smash that glass were you wearing that balaclava at that time [Music] is there any other reasonable explanation how you can explain this balaclava which we know you're warm being involved in the tabernacle [Music] did you see how this looked chrissy that's what's on it's quite overwhelming really yeah how old was he he did a bit of talking i think he's sort of touching us straws a little bit has to try and give explanations once all the evidence was put to him but right okay nothing that was worthwhile him trying to say just some usual excuses yeah go back i think the evidence is too strong now that he's that strong it's a great feeling knowing that you've got all the cards you've got the four aces in your hand and there's absolutely nothing he can do about those four aces can't beat them he's not going to come back with anything and you enjoy that as an investigator if you don't you're in the wrong job [Music] [Music] burglary in progress burglar is in the property he has a crowbar oh my god next time they took all my ipads and everything a one-man crime wave it's norwich beautiful correct five five series always stay away from the newest at the moment about to apprehend him you

Channel: Real Responders

Views: 103,815

Keywords: police documentary, the new detectives, forensic science, investigation, detectives, police investigation, cold cases, criminals, crimes, true detectives, real crimes, real detectives, private detective, police suspect no 1, police, interrogation analysis, interrogation room, real crime, norfolk, armed robbery, suspects

Id: SGDu-yGHoLY

Length: 43min 40sec (2620 seconds)

Published: Thu Dec 02 2021