<i> This is</i> Couples Court
with the Cutlers. [Judge Keith] This is the case
of Palmer versus Palmer. You all are married,
you've been together for 20 years, you've got
two children together, but the life that you have
built together is all in jeopardy based
on what happens here today. Am I right Mr. Palmer? -Yes, Your Honor.
-[Judge Keith] Right. You've opened this case,
tell us why you're here? [William] Well, Your Honor,
I'm here because after 20 years of marriage,
um, I am suspecting that my wife is cheating on me. [audience groans] Yeah. And, uh, like, hey, I just--
it's getting old, it's time to get the bottom of it,
so I'm here. [Judge Dana] Ms. Palmer,
come on, talk to me, -tell me something.
-[Amanda] It hurts me right to the core.
I cannot even fathom the thought of another man. Just looking at him,
I've been in love with him for all these years.
There's no way that I could give myself
to anyone else ever. She is beaming.
Look at her, she's beaming. I know, I know. [Amanda] I love him, I love him. -[Judge Dana] Oh,
that's so sweet.
-[Judge Keith] So, because you love him so much,
how does it feel -to be accused of cheating?
-[Amanda] At first when he said what he had said, I was shocked
like, "How could you even say that? How could you
even feel that way?" I had started a new job,
um, we were behind when I first started. So I had to play catch up
in the beginning. Um, I did everything I could do
and then as soon as I left work, I had to go home and work
and take care of our family. And wife-- my wife duties. So, um, I just-- it shocked me
that he could even think that -or feel that.
-[Judge Dana] Yeah,
but you know, sometimes, a new job
can swallow you whole 'cause you're trying
to learn the job and be good at it. And do well.
And so, you know, I can't fault her for trying to do well
on her job. Is there something to support
the allegations of cheating? [William] Well, um, I was--
we were at home one evening. And, uh, I assume
she was downstairs, you know, let's say, she was cooking,
and I was upstairs. Well, I'm also upstairs
with her cell phone. Uh, but just at that particular
moment, I was near it, and looked down
at the information center. And it was a guy's name. So, just to see
where I was with her, I asked her, "Have you been
talking to anyone from your job
or does your maintenance-- you know, property management,
she has to communicate with her maintenance men.
Do your maintenance men have your cell phone number?
Do they call you after hours? And that may have been
her response, and said no. And obviously I have
the text message just came in moments
after hours. "Look honey, you wanna get--
you know try that again?" Yeah. -[Judge Dana] So--
go ahead, love.
-[Judge Keith] Ms. Palmer, I mean, that's such an easy
innocent question. -[Amanda] Yes.
-Why did you give him -a false response?
-[Amanda] I didn't want him to get upset,
and I should've been straight up in the beginning. [Judge Keith] But why--
what have you gotten upset if nothing is going on at work? [Amanda] I guess I didn't think
of how bad it would hurt him. I thought it was just something
that we'd just let it go and move on. [Judge Dana] Okay, you know,
you have this big smile. Why-- what is-- what is it
that you're smiling about? [Amanda]
He is just a natural actor that it just-- uh, one day I feel like
I'm watching Kevin Hart and laugh at my pain. And then, sometime-- one day
I feel like I'm in a romantic-- Most of the days I feel like I'm in a romantic
comedy with Will Smith. -[Judge Dana] Huh?
-And then sometimes, I may be Julia Roberts -on<i> Sleeping with the Enemy.</i>
-[Judge Dana] Oh? So, you know, I just feel like-- So you just kind of
watching him doing his show? -Yeah. Absolutely.
-[Judge Keith] Yeah, but-- -I'm a part of it.
-[Judge Keith] But he thinks you're a pretty woman
sleeping with another man. -[Amanda] That's correct.
-See? And that's the problem. -Look at you Mr. Cutler.
-There is no problem. So-- and so, I mean,
this is very serious. We've got
a 20-year marriage here... -That's right.
-...that's on the line. And he's had a couple
of instances of questionable behavior. And so, it's kind of starting
to mount up. I mean, Mr. Palmer,
do you have any other reasons -to think she's cheating?
-[William] Well... one more incident, um, and maybe you could even
relate to this with me. Uh... -What?
-That scares-- that scares me but okay. Well, um,
being that in a long marriage, you have to do different things
to spice it up. Okay? Um, I do the laundry in my home, just because of the attire
that I wear, it's very delicate. So I make sure that, you know, that the laundry
is done appropriately. Well, when I go to take
the laundry, to do the laundry, I'm seeing brand-new-- well,
they're in the dirty clothes but to me they're new thongs, that I've never seen
worn on my wife. -So--
-[Judge Dana] Oh? -I'm-- I'm wondering,
if I've never seen them and you're wearing them
and they're dirty, when did you-- when did you
wear 'em? When did I miss out
on seeing some nice looking Vicky Secrets, you know
what I'm saying? And she's got some nice ones,
you know. So, but-- [Judge Dana] So one part
of this are my--
he's supposed to relate to? The thong part
or the laundry part? Well, um, with the thongs, um... -[Judge Keith] Just to confirm--
-I don't-- I don't-- I don't get to see 'em, I get
granny panties, you know. -I get grannies.
-[Judge Dana] Oh, no, -not the granny panties.
-Okay. So where we-- you and I
can relate is being that in a 20-year marriage you have
to do things to spice it up. I don't have a problem
with granny panties but I don't want them
all the time, you know what I'm saying? -[Judge Dana] All right,
Ms. Palmer?
-[Judge Keith] Ms. Palmer? Talk to me about
why you're wearing thongs every day, but Mr. Palmer
is not seeing them any day at all? Well, I'm always
the last one to get the shower. So of course he doesn't see 'em. So I go straight
for my work clothes, after cooking all day,
after I'm done coming home. And then, I take 'em off,
and I go get in the shower. He may be too busy
in his phone to see it or maybe too busy watching TV
to see me taking them off. But when I get out of the shower
then he pays attention. And at that point, is that
when the granny panties fall in? -Yes, it is. I sleep in them.
-Oh, okay. Ms. Palmer, I'm not buying that. How is he not
seeing you in these if you wear 'em every day?
That's not holding water for me. I like to shop,
and I buy a lot of underwear. And he just doesn't see 'em when I take 'em off
to go and get in the shower. And then they go straight
in the dirty clothes. Okay. Did you see
thongs before now? -Well, uh...
-[Judge Dana] Oh, boy. Okay. So, these would be what I would get to wash not-- I don't even know
how this work. You don't take-- because I don't
get to see 'em. You know, I don't even know
how this work. But these is what I get. -I get these and we make--
-[Judge Dana] And-- And we make these sexy. [Judge Dana] So the thongs
were something that-- that's a new thing since
she start working? It came with the new job.
Right. -All right.
-Now, Ms. Palmer, let me just ask a hard question. Who at work are you wearing
these thongs for? Myself and myself only. [Judge Keith] I mean, okay.
I'm not gonna be
like Mr. Palmer. I'm not gonna be disarmed
by your beautiful smile, but you've got give me
more than that. -I mean--
-[Judge Dana] But, Mr. Cutler, you know every now and then
a lady likes to have something on
that makes her feel like a girl, that everybody
don't have to know about. You just know that you
are girlish underneath. -I understand that,
-Uh-huh. but when you're married,
you see that because you see the good, the bad, the up,
the down. You see everything. I'm glad you didn't say ugly. I would never say that. No, so, but you see everything. So the fact that he's like
the only time he's seeing them, when he's doing the laundry,
he's like, "Hey, where'd these come from?
I've never seen her wear these." Yeah, I understand why
he's concerned. [Judge Dana] Uh, well-- okay. All right. Well, I'll have
to give you that one -Mr. Cutler.
-Okay. All right, Mr. Palmer,
do you have any other reason to believe that Ms. Palmer
is cheating? This one particular incident,
I believe took the cake. Um... It actually--
it was the final straw. I'm on the phone with her, -um, during her
-Okay. [William] getting ready
to clock out. Um, it just seemed like she was rushing me off
the phone. -Okay.
-[William] Because the goodbye was odd, I called back
six minutes later, um, she picks the phone up
and she's just full of energy and full of life,
and full of all these words that were just piling
on top of each other. It sounded like, in my opinion,
all the talking she was doing was trying to drown out
the sound of the background. As if someone
was accompanying her. What did you hear? [William] Well, uh, at first
I thought I heard the sound of... skin on skin, slapping sounds,
like... -[clapping]
-[audience gasps] [Judge Keith] As if
she was doing the-- And then it sped up? [William] The tempo-- the tempo
changed, yes. And you associate
that sound with what? -Sex.
-[Judge Keith] Somebody
body slapping -against bodies?
-Correct. Yes, Your Honor. [Judge Dana] Okay. Ms. Palmer,
he's hearing... [clapping]. What is that?
What were you doing? Were you having sex
with somebody? [Amanda] No. It was me walking
through the building with my boots on, that's it. You could hear
a rat pee on cotton, it was so quiet
in the building. I'm the only one in there. [Judge Keith] I mean
a boot walking
through a building would sound kind of like... Clack, clack. [Amanda] But I'm excited
coming home, so maybe it was a little faster. [Judge Keith]
Maybe it's a little faster but it still doesn't
sound like... [clapping] That's skin on skin right there. So, Ms. Palmer, were you having
sex with somebody? No. I was just in shock that
he even asked me that question. Mind you, I begged him
for about a year to take a lie detector test,
um, just to get this stuff, just stop saying this.
It's not true. -I would never do this.
-[Judge Keith] You begged
for who to take the test? [Amanda] I begged him to put me
through a lie detector test. [Judge Keith] So, you wanted
a lie detector test. -I wanted one, yes.
-[Judge Dana] And you took it? -I took it.
-[Judge Dana] Did you pass it? [Amanda]
Yes, of course, I passed. Okay. So, she passed
the lie detector test, -why wasn't that enough?
-[William] Man, it's not that easy,
uh, that's pretty much what got me here is when we took
this lie detector test this is verbatim how it went. The gentleman, you know,
strapped her up, um, fast forward
into the end results. -[Judge Dana] Okay.
-He brings me in the office. He pulls out
that Scantron paper, points to a blue squiggly line,
a red squiggly line, then he points to this bottom
number and circles it, says, "That's a 95, she passed. Oh, got to go, guys. Email me
and I'll send you guys -the results."
-[Judge Dana] Wow. -[Judge Keith] And so you had--
-I was like "Wait a second." [Judge Keith] You had no
confidence in these results? -[William] Not none.
-And so that's why -you came here?
-Absolutely. I'm here. Because our experts
are the best. Uh, you know, that's what we do,
Mr. Cutler. That's what we do. [applause] [Judge Dana]
This court has not only had one polygraph exam,
but we had two. Two certified
licensed polygraph examiners to examine Ms. Palmer
to determine is she cheating. Ron, would you escort them in. [applause] [Judge Dana]
All right. You both are
certified polygraph examiners, -is that correct?
-Yes, Your Honor. [Judge Dana] You've trained
polygraph examiners? -I have.
-[Judge Dana] You've done more than 3,000,
so you all know about this. So, the credentials
that you are worried about are not in question. -Not anymore.
-[Judge Dana] Okay. [Judge Keith] So,
you both individually and separately administered
polygraph examinations -to Ms. Palmer, correct?
-Yes, sir. -Explain what you did.
-First, Your Honor, I conducted a polygraph
examination <i> and during the course
of the chart tracing,</i> <i> um, I detected
that she was exhibiting</i> <i> controlled breathing,</i> <i> which is through block reading</i> and suppression
which is commonly referred to as countermeasures. [Judge Keith] When you say
controlled breathing, -what do you mean?
-[Lawrence] Controlled breathing is when you're trying
to purposely distort the charts and you're trying to suppress
your breath during the timeliness
of the asking of the question during the 20-second
window of evaluation. [Judge Keith] Why were you
trying to beat the test? [Amanda] I was never trying to
beat the test, not whatsoever. This is my life and I would never put myself
in the situation to cheat on my husband of 20 years,
we've been together. Never in my life
would I put myself out there for another man
to even attempt to snatch me up.
I think all this that's going on with him
is just me being gone at work, makes him jealous. He wants to be with me
and I wanna be with him. If I could get paid
for staying at home to love my family,
I absolutely would. [Judge Dana] Mr. Palmer,
what are you thinking? because I see, I mean, I can
see the wheels moving. What are you thinking? [William]
I don't know. It's... things people will do,
you know what I'm saying? For love or to cover
their own rear end. I mean, I don't know.
You know, I'm just-- I'm just taking it all in,
Your Honor. [Judge Dana] Let's get to this,
uh, the results of the test but let me just say this,
Ms. Palmer, and you probably heard me
say it before, it is better for you to tell
your story than, in this case, two examiners
to tell your story. Is there anything that you need
to share? [Amanda] Not whatsoever.
I've been telling my story. I love this man more than
anything in this world and I wouldn't even get
to that situation to do something like that. [Judge Dana] So, it is your
unqualified testimony that you have not cheated
on your husband? [Amanda] Never, never. [Judge Dana] All right. You both asked Ms. Palmer
separately and apart, "Have you had sexual intercourse
with another man since you have been married
to Mr. Palmer?" What was her response,
Mr. Lawrence? -No.
-[Judge Dana] Mr. Platt, -what was her response?
-She stated no. [Judge Dana] Mr. Lawrence,
what were the results of her examination? The results of the lie detector
were deceptive. [Judge Dana] Mr. Platt,
what were the results
of your examination? The lie detector determined
that she was being deceptive. Ms. Palmer, two. I have never cheated
on him period. [Judge Dana] I know
these two men,
I know their credentials. -Have you cheated?
-No. [Judge Keith]
Who have you cheated with? [Amanda]
I have not cheated period. You can hook me up to any test,
you can rewind my brain. -[Judge Dana] We did. Two.
-[Judge Keith] We hooked you up -to the test, two tests.
-[Amanda] I never cheated on this man since we have
been married period. [Judge Keith] All right. Well,
let's go to the next question. You both asked Ms. Palmer, since the start
of your new job two years ago,
have you had physical sexual contact with anyone
other than Mr. Palmer? Mr. Lawrence,
what was her response? -No.
-[Judge Keith] Mr. Platt, -what was her response?
-She stated no. [Judge Keith] Mr. Lawrence, what
did the lie detector determine? The lie detector determined
that she was being deceptive. [audience gasps] [Judge Keith] Mr. Platt, what
did the lie detector determine? The lie detector determined
that she was being deceptive. [Judge Keith] Mr. Palmer,
where is it going from here? We got a marriage
and a family on the line. I don't know. Um, definitely reevaluation. [Judge Dana] You know, you took
marriage vows and it was for better
or for worse. This is the worst.
I mean 20 years, you don't just throw away on a-- on a--
on a dime. -Right. Right.
-[Judge Dana] But Ms. Palmer, there's nowhere for you to go if you don't tell him
what has happened. I'm telling the truth period. I've never cheated with anyone.
End of story. [Judge Keith] Well, let me
say this, Ms. Palmer. Today may not be the day
that you feel, like, you wanna tell him
whatever you need to tell him but at some point,
at some point soon, for your marriage to go forward, you're gonna have to have
a serious conversation with Mr. Palmer.
If you have any chance of your marriage going forward,
you're gonna have to do that. And so talk to our counselor,
figure out how you all can work through this
and figure out what's going on and get you
to the point where you can get the truth
and move forward. As we say in this courtroom,
don't cheat yourself out of a chance
for a happy, healthy, trust-filled relationship. Court is adjourned. [applause] [dramatic music playing]
