How to Negotiate ANYTHING Like a Pro - The REAL Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss

hey welcome to podcast super excited to have Chris Voss here author of the book never split the difference today we're going through real-life scenarios questions tactics hacks ways to get time back and most importantly I hate to say it get to the s because I know yes isn't always the answer so enjoy the show so here's the thing entrepreneurs leaders salespeople we all want to create consistent repeatable and scalable ways to grow our business and our income and we want to do it better faster and more seamlessly why so we can actually enjoy our lives take vacations and spend a quality time that we want with the people that we love how do we do all this without spending a fortune or running ourselves ragged that's the big question and this show is dedicated to the answer everybody welcome back to the podcast I am so pumped today to have Chris Voss I'm a guarantee if you've not read this book you're gonna want to buy the audiobook you're gonna want to get this book you want to read it listen to it I don't know I mean I probably listen the audio three times and now I've got him in the studio with me before his spectacular guest appearance at the summit so Chris thank you man my pleasure thanks for having me I'm so excited so I did something different on this podcast rather than you know where I would typically selfishly say well here's all the questions that I want to ask this person instead I went right to social and said on Instagram hey I'm interviewing Chris boss who's got a question and it just blew up in terms of awesome agents and owners of companies and entrepreneurs and lenders that are like they want to negotiate better they've read your book or not right so I'm gonna hit a bunch of those and then my team has a bunch of questions because they all wanted to go shape better as well so they want better salaries right exactly hey should we get into that right now that's perfect all right my team stop watching now so Chris maybe for the for the six or seven people that are not paying attention right now who is Chris Foss why should they care give him the backstory retired FBI hostage negotiator I was the FBI's lead international kidnapping negotiator but better than that my time in the bureau I was with the team of superstars and I learned from the superstars around me when trying to get better at hostage negotiation with the Harvard study business negotiation phenomenal people up there said man you same thing we're doing the stakes are just different really yeah we can apply this to everything turn around taught at Harvard two years later when I left the bureau and then started teaching business negotiation we put this book out and never split the difference made my students in the business school not do simulated negotiations yeah made him take the skills back to the job see if it worked in the real world yeah they all made a lot of money yeah did really Wow so then we put a book out with tall Ross as I was telling you before tall is a genius we're proud of the book and constantly getting the phrase we hear most of the time is life-changing yeah I would agree I would agree so you you glossed over quickly arguably I think one of the most spectacular sort of life experience chunks of your life you were 20 negat 20 years with the FBI 24 24 years of the FBI how many hostage negotiation situations did you deal with in 24 years probably in total I've guesstimated 150 because I'm guessing lore sure and and what a lot of people don't know most hostage to go there's two kinds of sieges most hostage negotiators two types of situations don't have experience in both international kidnapping is hardcore yes bargaining yes contained you got the bad guys surrounded in a bank yeah on a house in a farmhouse and a trailer you know that's straight emotional intelligence most hostage negotiators have one or the other I couldn't give you a number now at the time five of us in the world yeah we're good at both yeah and you were good masterful at both I I think my track record shows that I was pretty good yeah yeah yeah I was listening to a bit of video I was watching just recently a couple days ago and I forget the island nation where this occurred but it was just it's something I read in the book and then you you were doing it live talking about the situation where you know how do you respond to someone that calls it's like hey man how are you help me yeah a guy who who basically his son it was a US citizen right what island was that again it was Haiti he was in his own Ivey tell that story would you just just to sort of open up people's minds to what we're discussing here yeah well you know twelve-year-old boy gets grabbed in a carjacking that was a mode of operation the business model if you will was kidnapping people in car jackings in Haiti at the time Haiti before the earthquake and the good business model cuz you're gonna be paid you take somebody out of a car they got money for a car that can pay ransom and if they don't you gotta come you got a car never though hahaha yeah so twelve-year-old boys an American citizen he gets grabbed only member of his family who is because one of the beautiful things about the US of A his citizenship by birthright yep which is by by birth right of the soil if you will very few countries in the world believe in that yeah it's an it's an unusual thing so young little feller was born in America that's why he's a citizen dad goes to the embassy says my son's a citizen has been kidnapped I need your help embassy says the FBI is gonna be that help you most people would imagine ninjas repelling out of helicopters somebody at least knocking out the discovers getting knock at the door surely yeah instead of you know the men and black showing up at his front door he gets a call from some guy in Washington DC named Chris Voss yeah which I know I get wind of this kidnapping within five six hours of it happening I mean that was a position I was in had a great relationship with the State Department I was usually the first person in the FBI that would ever find out about a kidnapping much to the annoyance of FBI headquarters sure cuz they want to know first yeah of course hierarchy alright so I find out I place a call what you know who's who's whose point of contact what's the number and he literally says to me on the phone which is a what one would how one would react he said you're in Washington DC how you gonna help me mm-hmm now I know he's gonna if I don't come up with something in ten seconds or less he's going to hang up and I know what he needs to know this is same as a first impression or really any impression how much time do you got to get a hold of somebody's attention and keep it instead and what are they looking for from you yeah you know do they want to know you know what you're doing they do you know credibility but how do you establish credibility without going on at length for 20 minutes about everything you've done have I told you my track record oh yeah exactly 150 of these and right yeah let me show you with myself makes that mistake by the way everyone that everyone that's listed here this is why I wanted you to tell this story everyone listening you listen to me right now you've made this well hey so what are you gonna do to help me like how you gonna get my home sold why you versus somebody else well let me tell you about myself yeah or I've done this before yeah which by the way through the course of the conversation with his father yeah that never came up so I totally interrupted telda and tell the finish the story all right so I know not to let my resume I know I know not to show off my experience because it's gonna put him to sleep or he's gonna hang up so instead all I simply do is I say this Haitian kidnappers are not killing kidnap victims these days I know that's really stupid because they kill each other at the drop of a hat but for whatever reason they're not killing victims now today's Thursday and Haitian kidnappers love the party on Saturday night if you say the things I want you to say what I want you to say them well have your son out by late Friday early or early Saturday morning and he immediately said tell me what you want me to do yeah I'm instantly because what I did was I instead of I showed him I knew what he was looking at yeah I see basically here's what you're looking at yeah here's the problem you're faced I did not give him in any way shape or form how he's gonna solve his problems I didn't give him my marketing plan didn't give him a value proposition all I did because right after they say to themselves how you gonna help me the next question is do you see what I'm looking at and go do you have any idea of the complexity of what I'm faced with yes and I laid it out for him and then I offered him an insight which he didn't know but he instantly knew to be true yes we we worked this right these guys gonna be vulnerable at this point in time we'll cut our deal they want their money so they could party yeah I knew that to be the case I know to look for that and you know look who's not driven by you are you gonna try to get a banking a complex banking transaction completed on December 24th or December 26th mm-hmm they're so they'll celebrate in someplace actly you know he's getting ready for the end of the year they're hot you know try to get something done on Wall Street in August they're all in the Hamptons they're all hey one of my guys that I need isn't gonna be back so let's just do this like the second or third right yeah unless you're talking about a car sales guy then they're like yeah baby let's go well you know last day of the month car sales guys exactly exactly so it's in and and to the course of a kidnapping though the father never asked me how many kidnappings had done yeah how many times I've been to Haiti by the way I've never been to Haiti mm-hmm I resolved dozens upon dozens of kidnappings in Haiti without standing for it in the country yeah because I've coached people I'm a coach yeah you know he didn't ask me how many languages I spoke he didn't ask me how long it was an FBI agent I could have for the evidence that I supplied him it could have been my first day on a job all you need to do is know the market and as soon as you tell somebody that show them not telling you know the money but show your knowledge yes the other thing too is you're not giving away any of your value by doing that mm-hmm what you are is you're saying I'm like they say themselves Wow if this guy or gal knows the market the chances that they know what to do with the market are really high and go you actually already answered my question which is you know the clients that are watching this right now the people that are listening are amazing in their own right but they're not they have options the consumer has options right the the FBI it all came to you you with me where someone listen this right now is gonna say yeah but my buyer or seller who in this case is the father has so many differ options what say you about that well there's so many bad options you know the any market is full of people that are not listening yeah any any market you know people pay lip service to trust mmm you know what's trust that you will actually look out for me mmm you know that you will not sacrifice me at the first opportunity trust is you recognize long-term is what matters not short time you're not gonna cheat me short-term because the long-term consequences are really gonna be bad so the great thing about people having options is 9 out of 10 of those options are bad yeah you don't have to be that much better than everybody else because the vast majority of markets are filled with mediocre players well said and you start raising the level of your game at all and large chunks of your competitors immediately begin to fall behind you we talked about earlier when we were just sitting on my table that the the single greatest advantage today is learning learning like that is the degree of separation from like learning what to say learning how to deal with people learn understanding human behavior psychology sales training marketing use it right on down the line learning well it's not this just a single greatest advantage but it's the only sustainable advanced stainable advantage you know some advantages you know let's say I learned the latest app yeah you know I get the latest computer that only lasts for as long as that technology exists and I wish I could tell you the the executive from royal dutch/shell that said it but a long time ago in trying to improve their their competitive advantage they had them do this analysis and the only sustainable competitive advantage which will be there for you year after year and get here is learning that's why I love my community I mean that's you know there's they're so they're learning they are absolutely case of listen to this question you ready if I assume correctly your time as a hostage negotiator wasn't spent in negotiations all the time it was probably a very small percentage of your time or of your overall responsibilities right thinking 24 years 150 cases so just like Realtors and lenders and and people in the insurance business salespeople right they've got a million things to do Chris one of the most important is negotiating for their clients or on behalf of their clients so what advice do you give to somebody who says how do I flip the switch you know what I'm doing all this other work and go into negotiation mode all right so let's help the person and ask a question to begin with yeah let's eliminate the word assume from our vocabulary but not in the annoying way that everybody says when you and me we're not gonna do that yeah what we want to do is we want to drop in award hypothesis here's my hypothesis cuz that alerts you yep that you need to be open to adjusting your hypothesis correct and it keeps you in a learning mode I'll test your hypothesis that and get more data yeah am I on the right track do I need to make an adjustment so in point of fact as especially as the FBI's leading international kidnapping negotiator at every single moment there's anywhere from one to four Americans that are being held some place in the world so when I moved into that role the last seven years of my career which I loved but I never had a day off yeah I mean I was into it I was up to my eyeballs in yeah I carried two telephones on me at all times my son is not my Director of Operations was playing college football at the time I would be on the sidelines of his college football game working a kidnapping with two phones and loving it I mean I was I was up to my eyeballs every successful agent right now knows exactly I mean we all do right we all we all you know even if you love it yeah if you love it if you love it you love it and you can be watching and you know be you know and but that's the business right yeah especially real estate real estate it's not money to Friday 8:00 to 5:00 all the money's made before 8:00 after 5:00 and all weekend long exactly because when a winner your clients making their decisions so so how do you flip switch alright so you don't if you got to flip the switch you're not keeping your skill level up you know small stakes practice for high stakes result go she a should say that again small stakes practice for high stakes results yeah and the most dangerous negotiation is one you don't know your rent mm-hmm everybody's in up to seven negotiations each and every day if you're in a conversation were the words I want or in anybody's brain you're in a negotiation yeah if you're in an interaction where you're hoping the word yes comes out you're in a negotiation one of my favorite examples gentlemen started this website phenomena called secrets talking to him at a conference a couple years ago he said tell me you secrets anonymously I'm gonna tell your secrets publicly that's why I want to anonymously yeah and I will share them with the world whatever it is you're you're somebody in your life abused you or is abusing you whatever it is doesn't matter you know people that they want to know that they're not alone yeah so he gets a brand new Starbucks coffee cup still in a wrapper to prove proof of identification that the person who said it worthless Starbucks and a note said I give decaf to people who are mean to me are you negotiating when you're ordering coffee in Starbucks as you are leading my team right now every day right every day every restaurant you walk into I'm always really nice to the server's yeah you know and one of our rules has never been mean to someone who could hurt you by doing nothing yeah which means everybody which also means everybody would help you if they felt like it dingo and so those of you to think that you're developing tolerance for caffeine mmm-hmm I'm here to tell you that might not be hit I would also have it also because that's such a profound statement Chris I would also argue that in the high-pressure stakes of the business that the people that are listening to this are in it never shocks me when I hear stories of yeah I just and I just erupted yesterday on my team or I you know came home and one of the questions like how do you separate business and work and negotiations like but I'll save the question but like how do you help people get like you're in negotiations every day with everyone around you and if you're not kind of on good behavior at all times or paying attention how do you get to that state that heightened level of awareness we were talking about earlier well it becomes how you look at it like if you look at it as an adversarial process yeah then even if you like it it's combat yeah and it's gonna wear you down a versus the world is gonna be negative ass aspects yeah somebody approached me a couple months ago and said what I love about your book is it's really how do I get the other person on my team they go and then how do we collaborate together to solve the problem yeah now with that mindset negotiation doesn't wear you out yeah it you feel good about it yes I mean you're helping the people around you we're working together we're making everybody's lives better we're taking everybody ahead yeah we're keeping our guard up for the bad guys you know if we encounter an adversary that's a dangerous adversary we can protect ourselves but by and large it's about great collaboration and then it doesn't wear you down yeah you said accelerate negotiations that's what I do yeah that doesn't mean everybody wins you just accelerate the negotiation we want to find out what the best outcome is as soon as possible yeah if there is an outcome yeah and then we want to decide whether or not we're gonna take it and what we really do is we put time back in people's lives because if you accelerate properly then you don't need more time you know I there's one hack that I'll give you 20% of the day back right away in sharing share please 20% of your opportunities are fake opportunities 20% it's actually much higher than that that's a stat from a book called the Challenger sale and they run the data and what they did was they basically said how many opportunities do you give people when really you're just looking for free consulting or really you're looking for a competing bid now real estate people are being asked for free consulting all the time under the guise that we will hire you yes and they just want your marketing plan to compare it to the guy that they're gonna go with and if yours is different or guys they're gonna they're gonna steal your knowledge they're gonna go with the brother-in-law anyway yeah that's 20% of the opportunities now the reason why that number has to be higher is because it basically said to people how often do you lie to people yeah nobody exaggerate how much they lie they would have minimized that yeah they wouldn't have overestimated so if they admit to lying 20% of the time the numbers got to be higher so one hack is awareness but what's the hack to find out who's in the 20% start asking them about you know art so if we move forward you know what would what would it look like moving forward with each other yeah I got a Hollywood guys got me on a phone here the day the Hollywood guys are famous for they want to have an in-depth conversation with you at length mm-hmm still are your ideas I was they just take take him to the writer yep so I strongly suspect that this guy wants my ideas and he has a writer he's just gonna give him two so I say well you know if we were to come to an agreement we would put a show together you know what would that look like he said well if we were to put together show you know we would take the writer and he starts describing it and every single pronoun he uses leaves me out bingo vision drives decision I've asked him a question what's in your head what's your vision of moving forward he doesn't realize I've got him on a polygraph right now hmm now interestingly enough as he's describing the situation it occurs to him that he's leaving me out yeah how do I know he in the middle of the conversation he switches and starts talking about the consent of the consultant neutral terms as if he doesn't know who it is yeah he's such dropping in you yeah we would do this with you now the only way he switches is because he's become aware that I he's been called out bingo so now all now my job is we live by the Oprah rule mmm always leave a great last impression always always always always Oprah has some success with that she does I say look you know I thank you you've been very generous with your time thank you very much for for for having this conversation with me I'd love to have a great long-term relationship where we collaborate at this point in time if we're gonna go any further I'm sorry I require mutual commitment yeah and he says well well I don't think that's gonna work I say we you've been generous to the time and I thanks thanks thanks for your time man I hope someday we can work the other in a future and get off the phone so we were talking earlier about the 90/10 rule that like 10% of all prospects are probably really real and probably right for you and 90% aren't there's two issues yeah are they real and are they right for you yeah and you know I use a phrase I stole from Joe polish because you know we're talking about Joe earlier today he says don't work with the half people work with the elf people half a said again don't work with the half people work with the elf people half his hard annoying lame and frustrating say that again hard annoying lame and frustrated yeah and he said even a half could be hard annoying lucrative and frustrated yes yes but there's elf people out there easy this easy lucrative and fun yes now even though a minority it's a big world hmm and I hold on I got a public service announcement to all my clients and how many times have you heard me say you need to have multiple pillars of lead generation lots of people coming in so you're not desperate which we talked about we're gonna get into you today right with the one client you have that's never the situation want to be in and as soon as you as soon as you open it up and become discerning yeah you'll be shocked at how that pocket you're looking for how quickly it fills up especially when you're not wasting time with the hat people thank you Joe yeah Joe polish yeah that's a good shout on a huge frame all right so you ready I got all these questions from clients so so Devin from Hawaii says what sales techniques turn people off now not only turn people off now but turn people off always yeah it's a combination well it's really only listening for one word yes people want to be listened to but there's so much more of the conversation and yes yeah and people get concerned when they say yes so you know what have I let myself in for is is a negative thought and it's not emotions that are bad for negotiations is negative emotions a negative motion constrictor thinking so at any point in time somebody says to themselves what have I let myself in for instead of sharing with you their concerns which is what you wanted to do put it all on the table so I know what I'm dealing with put it on the table but they become concerned and they have a tendency to then not share they clam up they close in a little bit so listening for everything beyond yes or if if you if you get a yes out of somebody and they go yes they all know okay so what what you do with that what's you know the person's telling you look I you know I want to collaborate with this stuff that's bothering me yeah so instead of taking you yes and running off and declaring victory then look out for them say you know I heard you say yes but it sounds like that something still bothering you instant trust instant rapport because when they hesitate like that they're also asking themselves can I trust you and they know they've hesitated so if they show you hesitation and you pick up on it they're scared to tell you and you recognize that fear and you instantly make them more comfortable I mean focus on how people tell you stuff versus what they tell you yeah and again accelerating outcomes this is about accelerating to the deal all right so Sara Haines realtor asks and this is perfect ready because we can't use our FM DJ voice any pointers on negotiating via email all right quick quick down and dirty on email yeah less is more everybody's problem with the email and I'll ask it I can ask it like this if you were to play chess via email would you put your next seven moves in your email Oh mark did you capture that one so I'm like rigging it looking over one of my writers over here like that was really good say it again if you were playing chess via email would you put your next seven moves in the email of course you wouldn't now you put one move in there yeah because you make your move you let the other side react and then you move after that yeah so people put seven moves in an email to start with first of all nobody reads long emails but everybody writes them yes you know and we ask people how many of your long emails do you read none how many them do you write all of them hmm so even if they read it it's still seven moves and they're not gonna read it yeah so put one move in the email mm-hmm now you need now you need to make sure it lands I say is it a subtle move is it trying to get to an easy yes or a position much more interested in how okay or making a point so then the important part about how does how does it land and how does it in let's go back to Oprah the Oprah rule is put the Oprah rule in emails chances are whatever you say positively at the beginning of the email do a cut-and-paste do not open the email with the positive put it at the end mm-hmm last impression is a lasting impression what most people want to do is you know hey how are you how the kids see or look build rapport really want to work this out with you we really want a long-term relationship and some people call the CEO by the way oh by the way here's the problem now you start out positively the old by the way has been pulled on so many people they don't pay any attention to your positive flowery opening now it caused them to get their guard up mm-hmm so instead give them a warning the bad news is coming you're not gonna like this okay mmm they appreciate the warning yeah they read on having been fairly warned yes then at the end and this is true you're not it doesn't matter who you're sending an email to could be somebody you hate could be your ex-wife doesn't matter if you're emailing you are in fact trying to work it out positively we don't ask anybody to lie if you're communicating you would love to work it out amicably no matter how contentious it ends put that at the end the reason I'm emailing you is because I want things to work out amicably I what I want more than anything else is a gray long-term relationship it doesn't matter who's on the other end of that email and yeah that's true and you've ended positively because those wars will ring the words that they repeat over and over and over and over in their head will be how that email ended it gives them the opportunity to go back look at the main part they didn't like that much but every single time in a feedback loop they go to the last impression so let's let's add some comfort so I love this two questions first is there another way for you to say you're not gonna like this though I love that one yeah but like that'll happen is amongst my clientele like we follow this philosophy of Rd ripoff and duplicate okay right so Chris cells is something weren't added into every email when we have to say you know you're not gonna like this two homes sold in the last 30 days that are competing with you one at twenty-five dollars less per square foot and another one at fifteen dollars per square foot which means your home now today is overpriced by X they're not gonna like it but that's the news that's the news we need to deliver right if we want to have them amend their price you see just you have the ask also yeah give me the give me the whole thing tiny little adjustment yeah um subtle move cuz that's a confrontational email yeah so let's make confrontation not confrontational cuz that's our job to be straight shooters how do we tell the truth without somebody feeling like they get smashed in the face with a brick yeah one definition of confrontation is a focus comparison okay so you take that email and you started out with you're not gonna like this and and you what you did was you put out two pieces of data mm-hmm that are in arguably true yeah and instead of saying your house is overpriced then you ask how question because how returns control to the person being asked secret to gaining the upper hand in a negotiation is given the other side the illusion of control yeah people love to be asked how and what they're very deferential people love to tell you how to do things yes so it's an emotionally intelligent wired question that's not designed to give information or seek information what is a how question designed to make them think yes trigger a thought lay the two stats out and say how does that compare to your house they have to look at it and they have to if they're going to see it yeah they're not gonna see it if you say look your house is overpriced because the implied message of that is hey you're an idiot which may be true yeah but you don't get any more telling buddy that yeah it doesn't help and I'm using I don't think my clients are implying that you know they're they're an idiot but but they are saying I owe you this information you're not gonna like it and I'm wondering like is there an ask and the answer is there isn't it's how do you interpret this right how does love back up how do you look at this yeah instead of giving them the seven points is the response just to keep going back and forth via email or eventually get to the phone well and that one you're gonna look for follow-up phone call okay you know you want Danny Kahneman and Thinking Fast and Slow would call this triggering slow thinking triggering slow in-depth thinking stop you in your tracks the stop you in your tracks question you know and if they were walking and reading at the time or they were walking and listening to you what would cause them to stop in their tracks stop and think and that's what you're trying to do with that question so they're they're either gonna come back at you with an email you're gonna be better off than what you wore or you gonna get them on the phone would you would you argue that or what yeah what's your opinion you know our clients are dealing with people that are busy on the go you know they're like we say stay in modality right some people want to text and you want to talk alone so we want to face face um you want to use Ibrahim if you want to use DM on Instagram right and all and negotiations happening all the time all the time so do you break or do you ask for permission for the phone call well the reason people are people are in that modality is because so many people are wasting their time yeah so from the very beginning you want to show and that you listen because it's not a waste of the time to be listened to you have to actually listen yeah people don't have time for people who waste that time people don't have time for a process that's not producing progress progress is often just knowing whether or not this progress progress is making this situation predictable mmm what do I mean by predictable you got a listing you only contact your client when you got good news when you're gonna have good news when you have a signed deal that's closed you just handed him a check it's our pretty house in the middle is totally unpredictable you can't predict it yeah when's the kidnapping gonna be over I don't know yeah separate issue from when are they gonna hear from you yeah you should you're you should never have a client wonder when is the next time they're gonna hear from you ever mm-hmm ever most people who only want to call with good news they call with bad news if they have to on the other end of that you have a client who doesn't know when they're gonna hear from you the most significant stressor in human existence is the unknown you put your client in the unknown yep now as stupid as it sounds that father I spoke to on Haiti at some point in time I got to get off the phone with him I got to call some other people I got a scramble the fighters whatever I got to do how do I keep him from going on completely falling apart I never left anybody wondering they were gonna hear from me again so we get ready to get off the phone I said you will hear from me in one hour stressful situation I've now put predicted when's it gonna be over nobody knows and go when you're gonna hear from me in an hour your clients whether or not nobody knows in the house gonna sell but if your client knows they're gonna hear from you every day at 10:00 and if all you do is say look just want you to know nothing happened mm-hmm even it's just a voicemail even if it's just a port in how're you doing great Chris just letting you know X because if you also get to the point where you have to get them to drop the price one of those reasons is either there's been no showings or everyone that went there stayed for two seconds and left or another piece of data that everybody has is this is how many times it's been clicked on initially on the website and there are no click throughs or no saves on all the famous right you've got tons of data yeah so Wednesday attend look just want you to know we don't have any showings over the weekend mmm there's nothing new now your client begins to have a feel in the moment for the velocity and the momentum of what's happening in the market with their property then when you get to the conversation we needed to get them to drop their price they are brought up to speed all along the way it's not a convincing conversation because they've been getting shared to small little touches 30-second conversations they've been getting touched on a regular and predictable basis they trust you because you're predictable and now at this point in time when you say what do you want to do they're gonna say we haven't had any showings in three weeks yeah okay so I'm in it I'm gonna hit you I'm bouncing cuz a lot of people are gonna say you have a Chris my flights are crazy they are crazy but if I call them every Wednesday they're still gonna be like you're not doing you're not doing a good enough job you're not working the home oh no they're not because no agent that does this says that number one yeah most agents don't mm-hm the first time I discovered this I ran across an agent in Australia who had a higher referral pipeline than anyone in her industry and she said you know what my clients never no wonder when they're gonna hear from us we call three times a week we call them Monday Wednesday and Friday at the same time and if there's nothing new we say it's just called to tell you there's nothing no and that was word-for-word the playbook of how I handled the Haiti father or the kidnapping in the Philippines don't leave them in the dark as to what the information at the moment is they should always know when they're gonna call because our problem kidnappings were working through the family when we need the family to do something we don't need them going sideways on us when you need your client to change the price when you need your client to redo the bathroom when you need your client to pay to bring a stager in if they don't like the predictability of the situation up to that point that's when they go sideways yeah when you need them to shampoo the carpets yeah and clients go sideways or when you're in escrow and the buyer is demanding a $1,500 repair and a three million dollar house and your seller refuses to do it over $1500 yeah it's the accumulation of the process that keeps you from going sideways a the same thing with kidnapping there's a moment of time when I need them to do what I'm gonna ask him to do unquestioned yeah that is not the moment to convince him to do it I'm already thinking of the headline for this show like what kidnapping and selling real estate have in common so alright I'm gonna hit you with a bunch you ready so Shawn Zhuang gang gang gang sorry I can't say your last name but go with ferry so you know what it's about how do you tackle modern negotiation of silence and we're talking to really like you know the modern tackle of somebody ghosting you okay people responding people stop responding for two reasons and there's gonna be some of each in this nobody stops a process that's making progress so talking to you is a waste of their time yeah they're not being listened to nobody stops talking to someone who's listening to them the bad news here is you're pitching and they're sick of pitching yeah you get on the phone and all you try to get them to do is say yes to everything you don't want to hear what's after the yes mm-hmm you're it's one-way communication trying to get what you want out of the situation and move on and you've taught them that talking to you is a waste of their time because they they're never listened to yeah so that problem won't problem too on their end they are losing their ability to get things done to some degree or another they're losing power on their end and they're embarrassed to talk with you about it so what's the text what's the voicemail what's the email to compose two-stage process one-line text have you given up on working with me that's so good have you given up on working with me now they are going to respond somewhere between 3 and 30 minutes from sending it yeah I'm not joking around yeah when you send that from your phone or from your computer mm-hmm sit there and wait because the answer is coming back yeah ding they will come back I'm not kidding but then you have to be prepared to do what we call get it that's right out of them mm-hmm stop pitching summarize the situation from their perspective this show takes you back from their thinking you don't understand mm-hmm - now I understand I'm just saying I understand I'm showing you show me you understand the position from their perspective yeah part of that is that they're frustrated with you yep a great summer would probably be look you got to be really frustrated with this progress process it's not getting you where you want to go you're concerned you're concerned with how I'm responding you're worried about me you're worried that I'm keeping you in the dark you really want to get this done and on your end there's some stuff that's frustrating you and bothering you that it's really hard for you to talk about and then shut up these are gonna say that's right or they're gonna feel like you're listening yep so ideally they correct you people love to correct mm-hmm correcting you makes them feel good about talking to you especially if you're listening and how do they correct well what they will correct you with is whatever you've gotten wrong they will tell you where you're off track yeah and also the awesome thing about correction is when people are correcting they usually get real concise and they get real accurate and truthful nobody corrects at pontification at length yeah and they it's a time when people are the most honest Chris it's when you told me when you're at my house that you could absolutely sell it at this price right that's what all my clients like that's right stuff like that what they did say it at all I could sell this for $8.99 and then something happened in the market an adjustment was made another sale was a new comp was created but in that you know that's I can hear that correction right so where do you go from there all right so if they're saying that again you got you got to speak the truth yeah empathise about the other side's perspective yeah that's real easy with people we agree with or people that we like what they're saying nobody wants to use empathy with people they don't like the people that disagree with ya if somebody says that you you said that you could sell it at this price the the perfect empathy responses you feel I failed you cuz they do exactly this is a hard part about empathy oh I'll be empathic with somebody who agrees with me exactly no no that's not where the pros make their money yeah that's not where the fixers fix things but where do you go from there okay so Chris I you know I just so you clearly feel give me the light again you feel like that you feel I failed you yeah you feel as a professional I should have known this was coming you feel as a professional no matter how hard I insisted that I never should have let you sign a contract at that price I took a listing agreement at a price and you relied on me as a professional to tell you what was going on on a market and you feel I let you get blindsided yeah what do you want to do now that's my favorite question of all time by the way what do you want to do yeah because you can't if they're done with you but if they're really done you can't change that but if this is within reach yeah you have to show them you understand and you have to put them back in control and you have to get them to listen to you and at that moment in time when they finally feel they're being listened to now if if there's a way to fix it again best chance of success if there's a way to fix it you find out in that moment if there isn't a way to fix it it is time to move on exactly so what do you want to do I want out of my agreement or well I know the markets changed and you know tell you but what a lot of people are asking is like how do you deal with the irrational person so remember this this started out the context the question was how do you tackle when a client ghosts you in the middle of the negotiation when they go silent right so so let me piggyback and I forget who asked it but it was like how do you deal with the irrational I'm sure in your experience all of the people that were taking people hostage were all super rational right well so his easiest rationality is like beauty it's in the eye of the beholder nice what we're looking for is patterns yeah no one's rational everybody has patterns you make your decisions based on what you care about yep that makes decision-making an emotional process because you weigh out what matters to you and then make your decisions yeah everybody everybody everybody and and and other than paranoid schizophrenics and I know a lot of people like to throw that out as a name but only people who were who actual have fundamental for lack of a better term which probably sounds very callous only people will actually have wiring problems unless you're actually hearing voices unless you're actually seeing things those people aren't predictable because we don't know what they're hearing in assembling that we got a lot of people we would like to call a name which is unfair to everybody involved yeah but everybody has patterns teres have patterns criminals have patterns kidnappers have patterns hostage takers have patterns everybody's got patent agents have patterns you're negotiating with so how do you spot the pattern and what do you do want you once you've identified you know everybody spots the patterns yeah everybody said I knew they were gonna do that but they that was a pattern but I think like that how you label it matters right if you're like okay let me let me let me pull away from the emotion right that's just my seller running the pattern of disappointment around price or if if if the house if they insisted hmm they wouldn't take the listing unless they price it would you new to be too high yep couldn't get him out of it and they even said to you in the conversation this is probably too high yep you get no viewings you know perhaps yeah you know I did of showing yep you got to go back to him and get him to drop the price and they start screaming at you yeah we would call that irrational yes but there ain't anybody listening to this that finds that surprised no it's eminently predictable bingo there's a predictable pattern here all the emotions are eminently predictable the the thing that we now know both from hostage negotiation practicing it and now neuroscience backs it up that when they react negatively instead of saying them to them I don't want you to feel that I let you down mm-hmm again empathy is nothing to do with reality it's the other person's perspective yeah it's a hard break for some people to make say it again because it's a it is an important distinction here empathy has nothing to do with reality it's what's the other side's perspective it's not what you said it's how they hear it it's what's going on inside their head right yeah so take the two millimeters shift instead of saying I don't want you to think I let you down [Music] instead of labeling it instead of denying it labeling it instead of saying like I don't want you to think there's an elephant in a room mm-hmm instead you say as an elephant they're wrong you make the elephant seem far less frightening as soon as you say as an elephant room and people go yeah but yeah yeah it isn't I'm not that intimidated by it if you want to say I don't want you to feel like I let you down say you feel I let you down that is not the same as I let you down exactly what you just did was showing me a complete respect for their perspective view you did not admit it nor did you deny it it you showed no sympathy you shouldn't see it say other cool thing about empathy empathy is not compassion it is a compassionate thing to do yes the other side feels compassion you don't have to have compassion to exercise empathy you feel I let you down that's not an admission yeah it's actually I'm like I'm sorry about how this information makes you feel well I wouldn't even go there now because they you know there's a problem with your use of the pronouns in their convolute some message okay and and and a lot of people that manipulate us yeah use it like that to extricate them I mean you might be generally sorry for how they feel but the manipulations you use that one a lot and that's a bad one what you do is take that down for me so I understand well I'm sorry yeah first of all I don't care if you're sorry okay and you call customer service I call I got a problem with my cable yeah yeah and a person is coach to say I'm sorry I'm sure the person's late yeah yeah I'm like yeah I don't understand how you being sorry solves a problem yeah yeah you know you're gonna say I'm sorry to me you think it's over yeah I still I'm sitting in there waiting yeah yeah my house still isn't sold right okay I want you to be sorry yeah on a hotline they used to say somebody's in quicksand it doesn't help them to get in the quicksand with them yeah they want out of the quicksand yeah and so then you go back I'm sorry you feel I let you down now unfortunately then you got to be real careful with Ward you because a little bit of a jab okay and it's a little bit you know I'm sorry you misinterpreted the situation wait am i name misinterpreted there's a secondary arguably yeah which is why a lot of extremely well intentioned things which is tiny little wrong tongues along the way the words don't have the impact we want they don't land the way we want them to yeah okay hold on I gotta said if you have not read this book you need to run to amazon.com or wherever you gonna get this book because I don't work for Amazon it's the best price for the book but I already know it like everything you're talking about is inside here yeah I mean it's the language patterns how to use it okay so I'm gonna hit you with a bunch of more questions ready I love this hey by the way I read his book twice amazing what about specific realtor negotiation tips then we're kind of doing that the whole time so I'm gonna I'm gonna pass on that one all right how do you know when it's time to walk away from a negotiate asks at Jeremy Salah till he's saying that wrong how do you know when it's time to walk away from negotiation we kind of covered it earlier but give us some insight on well first of all I wanna I'm gonna get a clearer picture a good picture of two things what's possible mm-hmm which is not what I originally had in mind yep because what's possible is always better yeah then what I had in mind yeah always so my job is to get in there and discover a better deal mm-hmm so then is the better deal do I like that deal and do I like who I'm doing it with that's a big part of it too now I might not like them and the deal is still worth it mm-hmm but I am not kidding myself about the fact that I got a tiger by the tail yeah I'm not gonna pretend they're gonna be nice and warm and fuzzy we have done deals with people we don't like because the overall value there for us was enormous we just don't kid ourselves about being friends with somebody that we was dishonest every person that's watching or listening has closed the deal and said themselves I'm probably to get sued after this or you know just just cuz you just know and I'd suing is a you know something's gonna go wrong so less who that client is it's just the situation except if the deal is worth it okay yeah by and large we walk away from good deals with bad people yep we had and my son my son Brandon who's my chief negotiator hates not making deals yeah we had a deal on tape about two three months ago he says you know we can make this deal said yeah I know we can make this deal but yes there's nothing without how and these guys are horrible at how these guys are screw-ups everything they touch goes wrong yeah it goes in the tank and they're they're gonna get bought by another company and we don't know who that is and chances are it's gonna be somebody's gonna give us trouble so even though we could make this deal these guys can't implement we're wasting our time and that's when we walked away that's big that's big all right how do you so Dustin Martin realtor asks how do you decipher what someone says they want versus what they really want yeah a tone of voice tease it out chances our there's two issues what they said they want what they really want and the door number three what's actually possible mhm and what's actually possible again is always better how is it always better they're always keeping things from you you're always keeping things from them yeah we only hold back stuff that's important they don't know what you're holding back by definition they have no idea what's possible cuz you're not holding back stupid stuff you're holding back important stuff you're scared to tell them why are you scared to tell him cuz it would influence the outcome negatively if it was misused positively if it was used we're both sitting on information that could make things much better if we just let it out so what's possible is always better how do you help them get it out I think that the question is like so how do you like did you definitely give me some deciphering tool how do I help them get it out first of all start by listening mm-hmm being deferential they drop their guard when you're deferential they're more likely to reveal stuff to you because they feel safe then actually the the crazy thing is they know stuff that's important they don't have any ideas important the more you get them talking the more they're gonna throw something out inadvertently mm-hmm when you go like thinking ding ding ding ding you have no idea yeah that's perfect yes it's exactly what I needed mm-hmm and it'll be inadvertent which is long story short on that their body language won't tell you what's there yeah everybody's into body language because I want to know when somebody's lying you only lie about stuff you know is important if I'm only sitting here watching you for tells I'm half the information it matters you don't know it's important so you're not gonna give me a towel yeah you know you're not you're not gonna look up and left before you answer yeah so I need to get you in and just a steady stream of conversation where we're conversational and the chances of you throwing something out inadvertently is better than 50% which always makes those conversations worthwhile yeah I think the overarching thing here is listen listen and process to some degree what are you listening for one of the things that you're listening for is real estate agent you're trying to decide whether or not the potential client is going to decide on you yeah yeah the best indicator future behavior is past behavior mm-hmm how did they make this decision in the past yeah that's gonna tell you right away if you bear note if the circumstances with working with you bear no resemblance to a past decision yep they're not gone with you do they only do real estate high real estate agents that have been referred by a specific family member if you're the first agent among many that they're contacting and you know have no pre-existing relationship with them have they ever made a life-changing decision being advised by someone they have no pre-existing relationship with now maybe they have the odds are against it yeah but you say all right so and have you ever done anything like this has ever made a life-changing decision in the past with somebody you didn't already know you know and you're asking that with that that's a genuine tone of voice that's not a judge Ito know somebody you already know and they'll go like no but and that sounds like a question I would ask if I'm the one that knows them and wants to win the business and they might be being wooed away by somebody else you got it you gotta understand a landscape you design a shape think that if I have that person who they just met they saw me online they read a review they happen to click on a website and I got an email lead write what I asked that same question yes absolutely why because you want to know whether or not the deals there for you name this verses difference yeah am I the fool in the game yeah now maybe they did but you got to know what caused them to make that decision yeah oh you did yeah I said well you know one time you know I made this big deal and you know what I do is you know I check to see who the experts are yeah all right so now you know it's not how many deals you've done it's how good you are at them mm-hmm not the same thing yeah you can't go on and on about how many deals you've done cuz that correlates loosely with whether or not you're good at it correct now they really want to know whether or not you're good at it which is why putting out a newsletter about your market establishes yourself as an expert in the market and now you're not a seller you're not you're not an agent you're an expert in the market they can get separate credentials to back up that they will make a life-changing decision which by the way many people will because they go to experts first before they go to salespeople so if you can show a level of expertise where your reputation is built not on your transactions but your ability to talk about the market oh now I know that's the aspect of my value proposition it makes a difference to this person bingo bango I love okay I got to just say I'm so fired up about the summit a lot of people are asking like okay what can we expect from Chris at this event right because maybe they've read your book you know but like I've listened to your book like three times I've read the book once right actually liked to listen to the audio cuz I like to hear the you know the tone the tempo the voice what are they gonna hear different you know and I'm not saying they have to I'm just curious I'm gonna stand up i'ma tell a few jokes yeah I'm taking a couple questions you know somewhere you're really fun cuz they all think you from like Long Island Yeah right no no you know we're gonna take a deep dive into some of this stuff you know you gotta hear things from a couple of different angles yeah to get it to make the light bulb come on yeah you got you got to get a feel yeah you know look if the only way if the best way to learn stuff was reading it on in books you wouldn't have a summer would you yeah and we don't just put out rich appearances yeah yeah it doesn't experience it it's it's you learn at different times in different modes yeah and it's getting in and swimming it's different from watching people or reading about it so it's a chance to get in and swim and feel it a little bit more get caught up in the actual energy and are you gonna make them do some exercises we're gonna we're gonna give you so the shoulder massages I already do all that if you're tense I got you covered exercises or no we'll play a couple games okay you know I love the phrase let's play a game cuz as a beginning of those saw horror movies what a bad guy says it let's play a game let's play a game this group that you're gonna work with now there's gonna be you know six thousand in the room is gonna be you know tens of thousands on the live cast around the world wherever you know watching it for weeks the people that are in the room are gonna shock you because they have so much energy I mean it's arguably the best of the best of the best of the best yeah right in their local market on a national level and their company etc every one of them shows up with a lot of energy so you're you know you're gonna love it excellent yeah yeah all right so three more questions gonna levitate there might be a little that a bit of that Billy Buck and company said I've read his book it's incredible what tactic does he think is most applicable to real estate Wow interesting that's broad because we we've covered so many there's a lot and unless you know again my son Brandon likes to say situation Drive strategy yeah you know but the first one really is hearing people out yeah because everybody knows that spine is selling a house is one of the five most stressful stressful events in anybody's life so many agents want to approach it is that all I got to do is explain things to him and go you can't explain stuff to people when they're not stressed let alone when they're in the middle of one of the five most stressful events of their whole life and go so what's what's a game-changer hearing people out has a tendency to calm them down real fast and make them less argumentative now you know as an agent that this is gonna be a bumpy ride he's gonna hold back and forth again a contract signed is gonna be emotional yeah and you haven't even gotten to ask grow and something's gonna happen and ask mm-hmm and so the process of hearing people out tends to accelerate the learning curve for your buyer or your seller so that when you have to make them get them to make a hard decision that speed bump that you're gonna hit is a lot lower than it would have been if they hadn't felt listened to along the way mm-hmm people are willing to do what you tell them if they feel heard out 100 percent if they don't feel heard out yeah and not gonna do what you tell them to do okay that's profound I gotta ask you a totally unrelated question your tempo right it's like it feels very intentional right your rate of speech you mean you meet people that take a man they're fast talkers that you don't mean like it's and there might be someone listening calling me out in front of everybody here what do you call I'm calling you out no no no I'm acknowledging that you're the store here but you know but there's there's oh yeah we would teach people when you're trying to build rapport you want to pay attention maybe there there's a little slower talker maybe there medium pace maybe there a fast talker if they're a fast talker and you're a slower talker are you in or out of rapport right like so just like I'm super just I've always been mindful about I'm curious is it super intentional like like when you're in the middle of the negotiation will there be times where you pick up like pace wise go a little faster raise your volume or is it very FM DJ voice the whole time now if it's FM DJ voice all time puts people out puts them to sleep you don't want to do that they can't pay attention yeah you know but the there's a lot that I put into my boat on my pacing my inflection I know makes a difference all right look Chris Rock mm-hmm I bet you from his funniest show mmm if I stood up there and read what he said word for word monotone it would be the most boring thing on a planet yeah Chris Rock's ability to keep your attention and to be funny and engaging and make you feel like he gets it thousand percent through his delivery 100 percent yes are his words brilliant yes they are yep he's smart enough to know that in yeah you know and so I know that in order to make it and I we know a lot of neuroscience mm-hmm so I know at different points in time the way I resonate change the tone of voice way and flecked up yeah I want not only do I want to make it easier for you to listen I also want it to land softly yeah I get that I get that I knew there's intentionality behind it I had to ask right some practices work exactly okay ready so I've been getting these like late little messages handed over this is from my brother Patrick who is a real estate agent down in San Diego California and he says representing a younger brother younger brother yeah so I mean you gotta tell us kid to do what this guy kid worth to do all the time not a year your whole life you've been looking out for right in the camera if you listen to your older brother I mean you know as we talked about stop telling him he's wrong stop arguing he's actually super coachable everybody bless you right so Patrick says I am representing a seller how do we motivate the buyer to make an offer I think he's saying without sharing motivation without giving up a strong negotiation position so how do i how do I motivate the buyer to make an offer right without giving up positions of negotiation for my seller yeah well the challenge here scarcity ya scare a scarcity fear of loss fear of loss the single biggest driver of decision-making yeah in the history of mankind yeah it revolves wrong we learned from Danny Kahneman won the Nobel Prize in behavioral economics it's so significant yes so your understanding fear loss but also you don't wield that weapon carelessly mm-hmm you don't want people to feel like they've been taken hostage because they're gonna they're gonna push back you start inflicting loss without demonstrating understanding first people do things that are against their best interest out of spite so understanding fear of loss and using it with great power becomes great responsibility you know who's that uncle so-and-so spider-man's uncle said that right so empathy precedes assertion Bob manukan wrote a brilliant book called beyond winning Bob manuka is a head of negotiation in harvard i talked about him in my book best chapter on empathy probably ever written in his book title of the chapters attention between empathy and assertiveness mm-hmm the tension between empathy and assertiveness I remember I saw that time I remember thinking like Bob I thought you liked empathy yeah this title makes it sound like there's a problem I came to realize it was it was a fake headline it was a fake tie Dhokla it's a hook it was a hook Bob's point was empathy precedes assertion yes the application of tactical empathy puts you in a position to be very assertive the more empathic you are the more assertive you could be how do I get a buyer to make an offer what's things look like from that perspective you probably feel like we're trying to pressure you you probably feel like we're trying to make this property look like it's worth more than what it is you probably think we're trying to scare you into making an offer we've got competing bids it's not gonna be here forever mm-hmm now you start the conversation with a just once you know we've got competing bids the property's not gonna be here forever a guy in the other side is like classic you know in email text and over the phone what's their reaction the reaction is fu my buyer really wants it how much but let me flip it on you and say what if what if the situation is there's lots of inventory so there is no fear of loss because if not this one then the next one all right so but there's lots of inventory doesn't guarantee the futures there's nothing more frightening than a dark future you probably feel like you can sit back and wait on this as long as you want yeah probably think there's a lot of inventory the market is it took a lot mm-hmm you probably think that this property isn't different than any of the others you want to risk losing it do you want to risk an offer falling out of the sky a nice thing moving for your chance to move on it because no matter how much of a glut there is in the market no one can predict when it off is gonna fall out this guy yeah right guys gonna come along circumstances are perfect you know everything may look the same every property has some distinguishing characteristics you run a risk at somebody else gonna come along fall in love I can get married here we left at the altar yeah but you can't throw that out there without throwing out an understanding of their perspective first I think that's the key distinction so I'm gonna flip it on you and give you different one right so this is one of those questions which is okay now Final Jeopardy I mean I think I'm doing pretty good now 500 years let's go all right let's bring on Tom ferry for 200 what is all right so let's flip it and say I'm representing the buyer right and the listing agent isn't as strong and I'm not direct I can't call the seller direct I've got to work through the listing agent that's a bad negotiator first of all there's always the team on the other side you're always working no matter what the circumstances are you're always walking through people to affect either the decision-makers or more importantly the deal killers yes you have to affect the deal killers they will not come to the table what you want to begin to do is in a really innocuous way you need to load up your counterpart where the things you want them to say to the other side so you look at the counterpart and say seems like your clients willing to risk walking away seems like your clients willing to lose this over $15 dollar repair hmm now there's two things about the way that I said that because I'm trying to I'm doing inception here mm-hmm I'm trying to get you to turn around and say it to your client with those exact same Walkley in town the only Antone so the only way I'm going to do it is by modeling it for you yeah now label triggers contemplation seems like sounds like looks like I'm just trying to get you to think about something hmm and saying it starting with those words so the bypasses the traffic cop part of your brain that filters yeah and gets right into the thinking mechanism so it triggers the thought and in my inflection is that a genuine curiosity mm-hmm because I could see seems like you're willing to walk away from this over $1500 yeah now my reflection there or 15,000 or 150,000 - based upon the price right would you still say the same thing it's a it's a three million okay so my inflection the second way was like I think you're stupid yeah my inner voice betrays my outer voice yeah my inner voice is that's a dumb move mm-hmm my tone of voice is said that mm but it seems like you're willing to walk away from this 15 yeah that's genuine curiosity and that means the chances there's gonna land right in your brain and you your counterpart is not gonna turn around and go to a cellar and say are we really willing to walk away from this over $1,500 yeah that's the conversation you want to trigger away from the table on the other side so it's how do you construct what you say so it lands well how do you say it so it lands well and they don't realize that you're scripting them yeah is there a number of things that like I love the movie Inception was fantastic so I I love that metaphor is there a number of things you can plant before you know kind of put you one two three too many well you know I like making my moves one at a time so I'm gonna watch I'm gonna because it's gonna reset there's gonna be a certain amount of reset yeah in any given the reason why chess is not a good metaphor for negotiations is because the pieces on a chess board are not all connected by Springs you know the web of tension as herb corn would have said in his book you can negotiate anything if all the pieces on a chess board were connected by Springs then every time you move the piece all the other pieces would move a little and by the time you've made two or three moves the entire board would have reset the web of tension is and negotiations are spring-loaded decision-making so when I make one move and I get your reaction the whole board is gonna reset a little and if I get too far ahead of myself I'm now calculating calculating out a game that is no longer there bingo I can I might be able to think three moves ahead never more than three because after three moves the board's gonna be reset so I like making a move and seeing how the board resets itself so that my next move is that much smarter love it love it okay this has been super I'm actually looking at my team like I told Chris earlier when we we're just chatting I said oh they're all asleep I mean I got here all these people are nodding off nobody's paying attention they're taking notes so so as we as we wrap this I want to just tell everybody again subscribe to our newsletter subscribe I which I've done recently and I'm thoroughly enjoying who writes a newsletter everybody on a staff I wrote I read some Brandon writes some Derek writes some yeah yeah okay yeah it's got a son working for him - there's we got all kinds of conversation I you know I haven't talked to him about it I think you would love coming up he's married you got kids no kids yet okay no kids yet across the street from Disneyland daughter well yeah a couple years from now that'll be happening right grandpa will be taking the kids to do yeah that's right is he as he following your footsteps he's out is he out speaking of leaving yeah he doesn't he doesn't do the keynotes okay he's our chief negotiator he cuts all our deals she's ridiculously good and and he'll come back and he'll say all right so I applied the tactic in under the circumstances and I'll say that's a new tactic yeah I said you that was brilliant yeah that's new yeah he distinction his favorite thing we traveled together a lot his favorite thing is really annoying he wants to have a better hotel room than me and every hotel were in yeah we want we want to we want to reserve the same room same price was to be gang size single yeah yeah and then he's gonna get in there and he's gonna get to sweet that they got available yes and he got he got a room in a hotel one time where I couldn't even get on the floor yeah it was it was secure access and I go what tell me what room it is I'll come right up yeah cuz I'm sensing that he's got another suite when I'm gonna you know on a single bed yes and he goes he goes now you can't come over I got to come get you I go I go not a lot cause it's not nice it's what you believe it is yeah yeah I can't even get on the floor dad and and he had a guy at the door making sure that somebody wasn't supposed to be there come walking in I get walking in and I get treated like I'm a stalker or something I want to say that people running a hotel I would his kid works for me you know I'm the boss what are you doing putting him in a better room than me he does that to me all the time you proud I'm enormous leap right yeah he's a good man use what you guys don't know is we're off-camera Chris and I were chatting and and we're talking about you know kids and life and family and business and and you made the comment you said when people call the office it could be him or you you both sound exactly the same you sound a lot alike yeah was that intentional on his part ah I mean so much so much so that people will say this is like they assume it's you he makes he he thinks it's funny every now and then to call up one of my ex-girlfriends to start a conversation with her because I think it's me the only person he never fooled was our bartender yeah exactly right we're getting we and I'll give a shout-out to the Capital Grille in Washington DC love that waterway the Capital Grille we know a kitchen closes at 10:00 we're not gonna get that till after 10:00 I said I call in asked to speak to the bartender whatever bartender who or it is pick pick it up polo you know they know me yeah they'll put in the order before we get there and if I say I will be there yeah so he calls up in a bartender's this woman named Abby she is sharp as a tack yeah he says Abby's Chris Ross wants to know look we you know my son bran and I are gonna be there and we're not gonna get this left the kitchen cuz we know what to get the rules we want to put in an order for our steaks right now and he goes Brandon I know it's you don't ever call lie to me again I'll put in the order but don't ever try to fool me again cuz you're not full me a bit we're talking like like he could he'd get it with the FBI ate a fortune 500 company never call them out yeah world world states but like the bartender our bartender who you know that's the car bartender knows that's the key okay so as we as we wrap this up again man I am I'm super excited I think this is gonna be a a wildly successful podcast in our world we do you know video audio they're gonna get an Instagram it's gonna be everywhere and I'm gonna see you again at the summit so that'd be awesome if there was just one piece of advice besides get the book read it devour it what's one last like hey before I see you in August at the summit try this do this take well do two things cuz really subscribe to the newsletter exists Texas sign up yeah and it's free yep and it adds and it's easy to read short sweet concise not a long piece sent a text message to the number twenty to eight twenty eight two two eight to eight the message has to be FBI empathy all one word don't put the spellcheck space in there don't let it put that space in sign up for the newsletter yeah now in the meantime see what happens if you just take a few moments in each conversation it's only gonna cost you twenty seconds to two minutes yeah see what happens to just try to paraphrase the other side's perspective before you give yours paraphrase what they've said stop and listen take their reaction and see what happens try that in your low-stakes conversations because you're gonna be scared to do it in high-stakes do it in your talking with somebody where you want to go to lunch yeah something simple where should we get coffee practice that a little bit you will be shocked and how much they like that you did it yes you will also be shocked and how often they will say you know what your ideal work for me I'm good give people a chance to have your way yeah and that's the way you do it yeah that's so good that's such a great action for everybody hey men thank you thanks for having me super awesome sorry like jumped around the microphones hey also on Instagram do you know Instagram handle the FBI negotiator FBI negotiator yeah right and and they're gonna see you the summit and those that are gonna see their OC on the live cast or they'll see it through this podcast but man this was awesome thank you absolute privilege to be in Thank You Chad alright guys we'll talk to on the next podcast Thanks [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause]

Channel: Tom Ferry

Views: 210,581

Rating: 4.8646393 out of 5

Keywords: tom ferry, chris voss, how to negotiate, art of negotiation, never split the difference, fbi negotiator, business negotiation, negotiation skills, negotiation training, chris voss interview, fbi hostage negotiator, real estate scripts, real estate training, sales skills training, negotiating deals, negotiating real estate deals

Id: yCHtogVbe50

Length: 79min 21sec (4761 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 03 2019