Chris Voss 4 21 17

[Music] [Applause] [Music] a few months ago someone gave me the book never split the difference and started reading it and immediately immediately said wow and so today we're we're very fortunate to have with us Chris Voss Chris come on down I put this quote up here from the book a successful negotiation negotiator has to get everything they asked for without giving anything back of substance and do so in a way that leaves your counterpart feeling as if they have a great relationship now who would like to acquire that skill let me ask the question again in a different way who would like to acquire that skill on that note Chris there they're all yours thank you is very cool to be here today uh it's kind of little exercise all right I want everybody stand up please I once you get a nice solid stand feet about shoulder-width apart you don't feel very grounded make a fist arms at 90 degree angles put your right thumb up put your left forefinger out now switch switch back switch again subscribe be the fact all right thank you very much I so what was the point of that did you need to be Albert Einstein to understand what I was asking you to do was it complicated the Nobel Prize if there's some technological breakthrough there but was it easy now it was a new barrier to learning a barrier to change is awkwardness it was awkward the hospice ago she ation skills that work some of them actually kind of like Jedi Mind Tricks then I complicated but the first couple times you doing they're going to feel all there's some interesting brain science now the backpack says stuff up now sometimes I will when I'm training somebody I'll stop and I'll say say these exact four words saying because and they'll resist but I'll and sometimes I'll say writing down what happens on a new skill every time that you say it and I also finish the sentence it actually creates a new neural pathway in a brain and the first time you're doing it the first time you're doing this you are actually in a process of creating a new neural pathway in your brains you in practice it in a little while and there's actually a finite amount of practice every single time you go down that neural pathway goes faster the next time faster faster faster faster motional intelligence hostage negotiation motional intelligence on steroids such that we we found out worked and hostage go she Asian we found out of work 4050 years ago now our brain sciences hair back backed it up tells us that you know I used to class I used to teach I used to say do this because I said I've been doing it for a long time I said just do it now the brain science backs it up a couple things that I heard beforehand that I really liked Pete strategy guy said you're in a trust business what business was eyeing it yeah I was in a trust business so when I first want to become a hostage negotiator I'm a former SWAT guy recovering SWAT guy and I had no background I went to the woman that was in charge of the Hospital Association team FBI New York City Amy Pond and I say with the most reverence tough New York chick you know my kind of girl and and by the way I grew up in Iowa I know the action doesn't sound like it but I did it's a long story kidnapped by gypsies ola so go to Amy and I've been on the SWAT team of Berlin SWAT team in Pittsburgh and I've tried out for the FBI's version of the Navy SEALs which is a hostage rescue team reinjure mining and knew that every swatter has got a shelf life like a professional athlete you keep doing until you get hurt too many times and you can't do it anymore I thought well let's not blow the knee out completely let me do something in crisis response so I knew we had hostage negotiators and I thought how hard could that be I talk to people all the time I can talk to terrorists yeah and that's a bit of background I grew up in a small town Iowa Midwestern blue-collar background sort of Richard George Ross and my son I like a kid kid that the boss unofficial Paul's family motto is how hard could it be which is not quite the redneck saying like hey watch it it we usually don't die but that I said how are could it be so I went to Amy and she was both assigned to the Terrorism branching I kind of walked up to and I'm with tada but dinner classes and rings hmm okay whatever your hostage negotiator huh yeah she's you get any training nope okay any psychology degrees nope hey you can't before right yeah we're your hostage negotiator please department nope did you use go away and I'm sure I didn't stay at my feet go but come on but I know that's how I felt I was like what do you mean go away I want to do this she said I don't care everybody wants to do it everybody wants to be a hospicio sure you and everybody else go away I said no seriously it's got to be something I could do she said there is go volunteer to suicide hotline now go away until you've done that and I wouldn't volunteer and five months later I came back and I said hey as long as you know I've been on holiday for about five months and she's like you're kidding I don't know which one helpline that's why I volunteered yeah you know Jim you know these people happen to be a suicide hotline that was attributed to being founded by norman vincent peale the power positive thinking who was really founded by his wife roost at repeal it was her idea and she had no problem get her husband to do stuff [Music] she was a classic you know behind every successful man is a powerful woman and they were a great combination with Stepford filled normative in Seville and just you know what probably one of the original Power couples ever and but I volunteered there and and I couldn't believe that she couldn't believe that I went there and it's a little bit of what you know what you're getting what you getting today ask the people who know how to do it ask them what to do and then do it sounds really stupid and unfortunately it's just I went back when I wrote the book and went back to Amy because her name wasn't out there publicly and FBI pre-publication review says you got to go to certain people and get their permission to put their name of the book otherwise leaves our name huh I said not leaving Amy's name out she brought me in because after I volunteered on the hotline there were literally five people in line in front of me she jumped me past everybody she said when I went to her said I want to put your name of the book I said you said you know I must have told a thousand people to do that - um dad you were one of them simple simple stuff real real simple stuff so what we do that's different than what you're doing by the way if you walk in a men's room you catch me doing this you know why I'm not signaling anybody in there I kind of practice before I go and stay though it screw it up so we got this great video that we run all the time where it's a simulation of a bunch of FBI you just get ready to for this boring training and there are new people in your office and one of the new guys is a SWAT guy he gets introduced to another guy in the office was sitting waiting for the boring speaker and then guy gets introduced as a hostage negotiator and suaq outlet says the hostage negotiation yeah really so what do you say if some guys got a gun and he says I need to call in 60 seconds so she died what do you say if I were to ask some of you to roleplay with me right now that was a bank robber and I asked you to be a hostage negotiator and I said you can't here's what you can't do you're doing you talk about anything you want can't give me transportation you can't give me weapons you can't give me drugs or alcohol you can't exchange hostages I looked at you when I said you're the hostage negotiator my hostage taker yeah it all look at him I need a con 60 seconds if she dies what do you say can i phone a friend right and we do that exercise and interact with people and I show people how to turn the 60 seconds into any time all the time that you need I run a video a thousand times and were certain things that stuck out in front of me that I before I ever really saw her and it was a thing that sold my book to the publisher and since and it had to do with the question that my one of my that the guy who wrote my proposal stumped me on because not once does the hospice negotiator try to get the other person to say yes not once and the title of the chapter it's a slightly different title now but what really went into the publisher was yes is the last thing you want here and when we were talking about this concept was with my co-writer at the time their book ends up the guy wrote the book is a guy named Tyler oz Tahl Raz write anything about business read anything about business he's written he's the world champion business book writer he also is co-writer of a book called never eat alone 2005 Kiefer oscillated probably people in the room here to know keith is keith lives here in town greatest networking book ever written paul was a co-writer in that book and I used to carry that book around the people I was going to work with and say write it like this fine I got the guy that wrote it like that but the guy performed that did the proposal he said when you were hostage negotiator I had to get people to say yes that was the only question ever asked me that it was thoroughly stumped at because I said now we don't it's a useless word it does me no good and what I'm here to talk to you about today is your addiction - yes I am a realtor I haven't said yes in 28 days without one of those kind of meetings right you're addicted yet sorry and that's the biggest thing that you have trouble getting out of and here's how this happens for a couple of reasons this is nonsense out there called it's one of the phrases for getting somebody to say yes a whole bunch of times I wrote a get to what you want there's an academic term for it's called mere agreement and there's a study out there that says that mirror agreement works so anytime somebody refers to an academic study don't just stop it saying there's an academic study take a look at the study then the study is if it says if you get people to say yes the little yeses it's more likely they'll say yes to the big yes now I'm not here telling you that you'll never make a deal doing that I'm just here telling you that's a horrible batting average and the study is taking place among students in an academic environment that are in roleplay situations and they're trying to make deals and I teach at USC and I teach you Georgetown and I know the shortcomings of those deals so that's why I make them my students do the majority of their negotiations outside in the real world I let them do some inside but I say you got to test-drive this stuff in a real world so I know the shortcomings of simulated negotiations and their shortcomings are huge and that's one of the things that mere agreement is based on but you can you can google it and they call it momentum selling they call it guessable propositions they call it the yes momentum and you can find no shortage of stuff out there that will tell you that it's really it's good yeah and it called the yeses tie downs now seriously somebody's trying to tie you down and you like that we need to bother with it as hostage negotiators example how do you feel when the phone rings and you pick up the phone and they say have you got a few minutes to talk you automatically go yeah thank God you called and then if they say would you like to make more money oh my god yes thank God you call no here's the problem have you got a few minutes to talk first of all is for questions number one I have a few minutes I want to talk to you I have two minutes I want to talk to you do I want to talk about what you want to talk about you know there's a man alive or woman probably who isn't going to call from their significant other and a voice on the phone the most important person on the entire planet and a voice says can we talk and the man says to himself well I like talking to you but somehow I know I don't want to talk about what you want to talk then after that is how long is a few minutes my next year your sister she calls me on the phone says we got a few minutes to talk she calls when she's got an hour drive in front of her and it's going to be she talks in I listen which is also called for have you got a few minutes to talk shut up while I speak and the last one is how do I get off the phone now we have been hammered with this yes thing so much that if it ever worked we're now like battered children nobody tries to get you to say yes to anything unless they're taking you someplace we're in Los Angeles right what if we are nobody tries to get you even if you're trying to confirm there's three kinds of yeses commitment confirmation and counterfeit and so many people try to lead us into the commitment yes by the confirmation yes that people get really good at the counterfeit yes well my students at USC is trying to set up his honeymoon he's going to a luxury resort he's going in the offseason he knows that you offseason he knows what they do the luxury resort is they offer discount on the regular rooms but they don't offer discounts on a bungalows and a bungalows are largely empty and he wants to negotiate a deal with the manager of the resort he wants a deal on a bungalow which he knows they're not offering and he also knows that they're empty because it's your offseason so all he wants to do is confirm a innocent fact it's the offseason right that's like what month it is what day it is what planet one the manager knows it's going someplace nobody ever tries to get you to say yes unless it's going someplace our guard goes up incidentally and we're so battered by this we're all so battered by this like I'm on a plane a few months ago between LA and New York and I'm a very strategic flier so I have taken the time to make sure that I have a middle seat in economy since landing right the five-hour flight so I get to get up fine I use a restroom nicely sitting next to me I'm sorry can I get up I get up I go in the back and when I come out I see she's still standing in the aisle and I'm like awesome so five-hour flight she doesn't want to sit down right away and you got to get up and move around but I want to be rude I want to make sure this is okay to her with her and so I walk up to a knife and guessing you want to sit down right away she looks at me and she looks pounds huge to me success good I want to read my book and she's worried about whatever what's it gonna mean if she says yes what does she let herself in for there's a they used to be parking lot Washington DC when I lived in DC it's the stupidest thing was they'd finally took it down because a renovation of the waterfront so this parking lot had a machine $8 cash to get in didn't take credit cards exact change only and no time limit what does that mean I once parked my motorcycle after four months three dollars so the locals that lived around there who worked in the area knew about this and so they're you know they always always go on parking there because it was $8.00 all day and inevitably there'd be somebody that wasn't familiar with it their sign sign sign cash only $8 exact change cash home and there'd be somebody right up there trying to put a credit card in the machine that 60 years old and I jump out I walk up the nice lady's in and send a car and what help her out I look at it I saying do you have a dollars cash and she goes what if I do I mean to convince yourself of this finally last or not this weekend tomorrow good Eve ever mom goody favorite store probably Nordstrom's right I don't know what it is but staying right outside and stop people just as they go anything like shopping at Nordstrom's I bet they don't go in I bet if they go and they look over the shoulders so much that they leave without buying anything I bet if you do that for half an hour security comes out and ask you to leave like you you'll be stunned I mean just just look for it look for it in different little places is such an addiction and it becomes an addiction because yes it's been designated as the most beautiful word in the English language it's not any language we love to hear oh god it feels so good over here and there's an interesting story that John Lennon first began to fall in love with Yoko Ono because he went to an art exhibit that she put together and she climbed over and was in there like an obstacle course and you crawled around on this stuff and then finally you came to this ladder you crawl up this ladder and you looked at telescope or four walls in tiny little letters was a word yeah and we love to hear so much we forget in an instant in a very instant when you're trying to get somebody to say yes if I try to get you to say yes you'll back up so we didn't even bother with this and it was never even a topic of conversation in hostage negotiation never but because yet for one of my rules is yes is nothing without how and we were in a trust business the first major seeds that I ever got involved in negotiated bank robbery of hostages in Brooklyn 6,000 years ago and interestingly enough even though they happen in the movies all the time a bank robbery where they actually negotiate hostages out happens in the entire country about once every 20 years they're rare events when we were when we did the one in New York the last one before that was 20 years earlier and it was Dog Day Afternoon moving without Pacino and that's New York how often they happen in New York was the last time you heard of a bank robbery with hostages in Los Angeles and like robbing banks in his towns so it just doesn't happen it was a second negotiator on the phone I started in with hostage negotiation techniques the first guy was a highly manipulative type I had learned how to deal with highly manipulative types on the telephone on the hotline when I when I finally got trained as a negotiator from my time at the hotline I said I've been doing this for a year I just didn't have a SWAT team outside but he was actually extremely manipulative businessman it was it was a business transaction he wasn't really sure how to deal with me so he actually answer phone off to another guy a minute and a half in the other guy who doesn't realize I'm not the first negotiator first guy up was a guy named Joe they handed off to me with some specific instructions I got on the phone and start do my my suicide hotline think my late-night FM DJ voice and a minute a half in before he knew my name the guys literally says to me on the phone I trust you Joe before he even knew my name he trusted me an interesting sequence they sum up there's a whole nother set of psychological impact things around names I would tell you that it would teach you to use names differently than your username now talking to a realtor just a couple of weeks ago one day training we had here in town he says we sit down you know I'm having trouble get these phone calls returned I'm having trouble getting phone calls returns we do all the research we get to know everything we can about our potential clients we get to know everything we can about these people and having trouble getting phone calls return return any I said say that again did having trouble getting phone calls return he looked at me like what are you stupid I was pretty much straight English right I said no what would you say before that how what are you doing so we get to know everything we can about so that's your problem what I know about you another day I said there is easy for them not to return your calls they got no idea who you are you're just some schmuck leaving messages for their voicemail your whole desire to get to know them you didn't do it in a way where it was a two-way street and one of them getting to know you is even more important and there's a lot of little sight subtle tiny ways that you do this that the way we construct what we say I'll give you two different stories and they'll feel completely different when I when I became an FBI hostage negotiator I went through the training at Quantico which is a mystical place it really is and going through the training was one of the best friend I ever went through and while I was there I began to hear about these guys that traveled international working kidnapping and made all over the world saving people's lives and I want to heard about these guys and we and I finally heard that these guys were on the same team the critical incident negotiation team by the end of the week they give a presentation and what I came out of there I knew and wanted to be on the same thing I let me tell you the story different way when you become an FBI officers and oh you go to the training at Quantico and you find yourself at a mystical place this mystical place at Quantico what lives are transformed and you begin to find out about these people traveling all over the world saving people's lives on international kidnappings and you find out that these guys are members of the sentiment by the end of the training you know you want to be one of lovers of the scenting second story of more personal vendor gauge you are because I know that each word has a different emotional impact and it's not that the word has a bad impact at the context attend I switched from I to you when we're teaching people to interact a lot of people have been taught appropriately like when they're trying to confirm something they've heard from the other side they say what I'm hearing is well that's a misuse of the word I instead if I say you sound like I've immediately plugged the word you in instead of I and I began to engage them in a very different way there's a lot of little things that I was taught how to do that as a hostage negotiator then when I started to teach and begin to see it in other ways and learn things in other areas begin to understand the difference of the impact of those words every question has an impact every time you try to get somebody to say yes you create anxiety that person every time so on you got to get out of that I'll give you one with this is going to sound stupid and we haven't quite got the brain science to back it up all now but the dumbest thing the simplest thing if you get exactly what you want by getting somebody to say no when you when you guys get home when you get back to your office when you get out of here write down the questions that you normally like to ask people the majority of will be yes questions your first step is breaking your addiction be simply to switch it to the other side give you an example by two years ago Jack wants to come through Los Angeles in his wife Suzie their recent book the real life MBA they're doing a book signing i'ma girl in the book side I want to ask Jack wells to come and speak to my class at USC I've had some really interesting people come in and speak so how many people try to get Jack Woltz to say something say yes or something in that book signing how many people are 250 300 people hey Jack come to my kids birthday party hey well come over the house for dinner everybody has speak school so the two problems here book signing a bunch of people for authors Popular's Jack Welch long line they're running it through like an assembly line right before you get there they give you a little coupon write your name on it that way Jack says hey nice to see you Chris good luck next they got a logistical problem problem one what's problem - Jack what's legitimate celebrity they don't know who I am there's no background investigation there's no metal detector they don't know I'm not a disgruntled former shareholder GE they lost my life savings when I showed a G stock and Jack Woltz took it up right Jane Fonda a few years ago she's at a book signing falling over vietnam vet comes up there it's right there face a legitimate Rockstar celebrity I'm going to be within arm's length of this person he has security action is always quicker than reaction I'm gonna get close enough to him I could do anything I want they can't stop me if you come up I could kiss him on the lips they don't know what I'm going to do it right not that I would kiss Jack what's up so how much time do I got with Jack Walsh probably fine I walk up to Jack Walsh and I say is it a ridiculous idea you to come and speak to the class I teach at USC in a Marshall School of Business look something to the left it's this really intense look on his face and I think to myself just kill Jack Walsh he's so angry at his stroke he's gonna fall right over secure you can tackle me there you drag me out and head cook and then when he doesn't unfreeze it and I see I'm relieved that he hasn't died but I then I'm thinking in my head he can't go scared Easter day said he looks at me he says my personal assistant tonight this is special Twitter account we have setup to communicate with her I will call her and let her know that you gotta be reaching out for I think we're going to be in Los Angeles in a fall if we are we'll come in and we'll speak at your class how does an ad because I two things I did something nobody else is doing number one number two I know the psychology psychological I don't know the psychology I know the psychological reactions to different things I know the way the brain functions I know the different portions of the brain I know that we're three times is more like or six times more likely to make a deal with somebody we like I know how to be likeable without being vulnerable to needing to be liked I know how the brain works a negative positive emotions I know how those influence your thought patterns I know how to turn negative sound I know how to turn positive up as a hostage negotiator I listen learn to listen to the different components and everything everybody says and there are only about five there's not that many and I know how I can turn each one up and down at will and I know the rules in the way the in the universe of the brain under the emotional rules and there's some always rules and I know certain things that I can say will always have the same impact and how much of an impact will that be give you in just an example on switching from yes to none one of my students at Georgetown does an experiment because he is on a Republican fundraising committee a couple elections back not the most recent one and they're dialing for dollars at night what are they doing it's cold calling and what's the cold calling system call them on the phone and get three yeses in a row get your three yeses in a row you've built the yes momentum you milk built mayor agreement you tied them down then you ask him to kill a question which is a trap which they know is coming and ask for money that's every cold calling script on a planet is designed to do that yes yes yes oh they take their three asked questions and he makes them three no questions takes the first question instead of would you like to see the Republicans back in White House in November it changes have you given up on seeing the Republicans take the White House in November changes the three s questions to no questions they run the two scripts side-by-side the no script gets a twenty three percent higher rate of return only that change change nothing else you're going to get at least twenty three percent more effectiveness effectiveness what would that do over the coming you if your batting average raised by twenty three percent and how much you've got to raise your batting average I don't know how many baseball fans are on the room any baseball fans what's the Mendoza line who wondered so for those of you that are not baseball fans the Mendoza actual bad for this guy I'm not sure what his first name I should know his first name he was a he was a guy that was in and out of the majors was a phenomenal fielder but wasn't a great hitter and always hit around 200 215 and he kept washing out of the majors and he couldn't stand and actually my understanding George Brett a guy from the Kansas City Royals joking about it one day said the mo you know I'm trying to stay above the Mendoza line in an interview that just caught so 200 a batting average for Major League Baseball to about 200 215 where you wash out of the lead what your batting average got to be to be in the all-star game at 300 right you hit 300 how much money you make it a day right these are the guys that are signed in 150 million dollar contracts at 300 and above how many hits a month do you have to go to get to go from the Mendoza line to a hundred million dollar contract about nine nine or ten exactly right a month day after day after day getting up and going to bat day after day of the day an incremental change takes people from washing out of the league signing hundred million dollar contracts changing from yes to no and getting redoing your wiring getting a gut instinct on that one alone probably raise your batting average 23 percent there's a bunch of other stuff that I learned from hostage negotiation that's in the book share with you in many ways as we can see it's going to talk about how we're going to do that but that's just one in and back to it in case you're wondering none of its complicated just take some rewiring and some practice if nothing else if you haven't got the book just read the reviews on Amazon what they say the thing that I loved about it more than anything else is like wow this really counterintuitive stuff that was really easy to do and no shortage of people or making differences in their negotiations before they finish the first chapter I wanted it to be usable that's why I brought haul in because he could write a digestible understandable book he would put structure to it so that because I you know I got I'm I'm the original short attention span theater guy so I'll get about halfway through a chapter and I'll have to stop because my lips are tired but um boom but sometimes especially when you're reading to learn your brain only has so much capacity in a given day and if you have a chapter that's 50 50 pages long and you can't stop ten pages in you might not even pick the book up you can you can pull this stuff in in small doses when we finish the bank robber in Brooklyn we didn't do face to face surrenders so Bobby the first hostage taker to come out thought he was surrendering to me personally I finally got the last bit to get him to come out when I said I'll meet you outside and he said yeah I want to end this we had to have him walk into the arms of the SWAT guys because the SWAT guys had the perimeter and they have security control and as soon as the SWAT guys got their hands on him he looked up and he said where's Chris after he'd surrendered kidnapping and I talked about in the Philippines where we got a hostage walked away and we we thoroughly in the negotiation defeated the other side and they became disheartened there was originally a 10 million dollar ransom demand we had one conversation in the middle of that negotiation which my Director of Operations is also my son refers to as the birth of that's right moment and we went from ten million dollars to zero in one conversation and we got it that's right not a you're right but that's right when that was all over and since our hostages walked away the terrorists and then were bad-to-the-bone head-chopping straight out of the movies bad guys they got nothing I'm back in the Philippines about three weeks later and I'm back with the negotiator that I was coaching and he said you're not going to believe who called me on a phone sound like I who our bad guys name was survived he said somebody called me really Subbaiah still had my guys phone number his undercover phone number his undercover name didn't know who he was though he had to be with police or the military kid knows real name Tobiah calls my guy on a phone three weeks after he'd been completely defeated and got nothing and said you've been promoted yet I don't know what you said to me on the phone but whatever was it worked they should promote you hangs up I'm going to Robert De Niro Billy Crystal movie analyzes anyone says you you've got to give you you're good but that's the way to leave people in your interactions hostage negotiators that that was our currency we never know when we were going to have to face somebody again and if they live that meant my eye or one of my colleagues would see them again so we believed in long-term relationships and reputation and getting everything you want in a negotiation and have and if the other guy's got nothing but if you didn't get what he was really after all our conceit was we still wanted to have a great relationship with them no matter what so that we could cross paths with them under any circumstances whether it would be the next day or in ten years and they would remember us and be happy to talk to us again and that's the way we raise the level of our game that's how we continue to save people's lives as hostage negotiators then have a reputation of being people you can put your life in their hands and you can trust them if they're in a trust game if you're in a trust business you could trust the hostage negotiator so access stuff that I teach and it's kind of cool you know it's kind of cool the accumulation of relationships and people who want to continue to do business with you and feel connected to you separate from how the transaction came up I dig it I hope you get a chance to work with you help you do more stuff so let me ask you a question the book is called never split the difference right this audience right here raise your hands everybody almost every negotiation therein ends with splitting the difference can you talk about that you know the why do people do that so alright so when you split the difference every time you did that things were beautiful after that right now so splitting the difference never solves any problems we face with anyway we think they will we think we think it's a hat to move forward we think it's a quick short hat the vast majority of the time splitting the difference doesn't address any of the actual problems in the transaction any of the implementation or coming to an agreement will follow on problems and we think we have an agreement when we split the difference in agreed and now instead of the problems being over the problems have just begun and then you've capitulated on something that had nothing to do with solving any of your problems so if you can solve those problems with the delay that saves time go a little slower you go much faster in your transactions and then you've never had to split the difference because it didn't solve your problems in any way so if it's not going to solve your problems why do it it solves the problem separately and why do you think they do that because you think it's going to work the other issue too is or there's a fundamental feeling of fairness you're trying to be fair so you try and sometimes another aspect of it might be you might not think you're entitled you know some of the sell ourselves short will worried we're worried that maybe we're not anti to the full amount or word that maybe we don't deserve the full amount maybe we're being greedy we're thinking I trying to make a living too you know there's there's probably three reasons why we split the difference on a regular basis and it just doesn't work we're looking for a hack didn't solve our problems we don't think we're worth it but it doesn't help it doesn't fix things if it did you guys have been holding the seminar and we'd be watching you it's just and you know my great example is splitting the difference is like you know what should I wear with this suit today sure wear black shoes or should I wear brown shoes so I'll wear one black and one brown in the book the big part of the book is empathetic with tactical empathy correct right what is tactical empathy alright first of all it's not sympathy empathy is not sympathy empathy is not I feel bad for you I know how you feel like stop saying that please empathy is understanding the other side if you truly understand empathy you're interestingly enough you look out and see how powerful it is there's some articles out there now called the dark side of emotional intelligence it's ridiculously insanely powerful true empathy is you know who's best at empathy social pass because empathy is understanding where the other side is coming from only so what we take from that and why we coin the term tactical empathy we know so much more about it I know how the brain functions I know I know I know you have three negative thinking buttons in your brain and you have one positive thinking button in your brain the negative thinking button in your brain is no less than three times the size of the positive like a good so I know tactically how to address that and I know the reasons you won't make a deal or three times more important than the reasons why you will so since I'm lazy I'm going to get rid of the reasons you won't make a deal first I will make tactical choices knowing how the emotions run through the brain so we take empathy which is just a recognition of what emotions are going on in the last 40 years we learned how to dial different things down and up is it is it manipulative is respect manipulative is repeat is appreciation manipulative are manners manipulative now the issue of whether or not it's manipulative how many of you got one of these but wait a minute they're really bad people that use these don't don't you feel it's morally wrong to use a phone because bad people use a home well it's the same thing with the negotiation tools so after the tools I'm done the manipulation as bad as why you're trying to manipulate somebody trying to manipulate somebody into a bad deal then that's that's immoral trying to keep somebody on track while you're moving them to the home of their dreams is a completely separate issue Virna so oftentimes there a situation where they're representing a buyer who wants to buy a property right and there's a listing agent on the other side from your perspective how are you going to approach that negotiation how are you going to prepare yourself what are you going to be thinking about as you enter into that negotiation and what the listing agent to see me is a straight shooter which means I want to feel like we've got a good working relationship but that I'm not necessarily going to get pushed around I'm going to be we're going to be very collaborative as long as we're collaborative things are going to go wonderful but I know at certain point sometimes I'm going to have to draw boundaries I'm going to have to say no let's say no if I have to say no I let it out a little at a time I'll say it very gently and what I want I want to be able to for people to feel respected and appreciated and also that I've said no to them in certain ways I want em to pay establishes a two-way street I'm going to exercise empathy because I want to back from them I want to get us to the point where we've got to work in a relationship where we can solve the actual problems and nobody's afraid of cooperating and so then because I'm going to want to communicate through the agent to the other side and I'm going to do that a variety of ways some voices I'm going to say things to the agent that I want them to say word for word for the other side but I don't want them to know that I did dental and those and I will use something we call the secret the gay in the upper hand and the negotiation is given the other side of the illusion of control I think if I see something that's going to be your problem I'm going to say how is that going to work enough times until the agent says it to themselves and the agent finally says it sends it to the seller and so it's a constant communication Coloma trading you're going between everybody and how would you communicate to someone that you are straight shooter and you're not going to be pushed around how would you do that specifically I'm not going to be afraid to say negative things to them but I'm never going to say anything negative that I haven't given them a little bit of warning on like a you know a real counterintuitive if I if I had something to say to you that I know you're not going to like I'm going to say you're not going to like this then I'll say I I'm going to use his apology strategically I never apologize at the end not before after I've said something they don't like I'll say I'm sorry I kind of like this and then I will finish if we get something we like to call the Oprah rule was the last time you heard about Oprah having a very public fight with anybody what front of her 17 year Booker a friend of mine here in town same thing we did in hostage negotiation we controlled the end of every conversation controlled the end of the conversation not too beginning Oprah's rule and her Booker's rule was they always let made sure when people left they were happy when they left so if I have to confront you in our negotiation on the same I'm sorry it's going to sound harsh I'm going to tell you what it is and the last thing I'm going to say is now I want us to be successful together that's a specific sequencing of psychological impact that I've had on finishing with a statement that for lack of a better term is nurturing not apologetic not disingenuous anywhere I want us to be successful I want us to make this deal and when the Oprah rule because the last impression is a lasting impression the last impression is a lasting impression my mother always taught me if you don't make a good first impression you might not get camping a second I never paid attention to the last depression the last impression is a lasting impression because I'm going to need to talk to you on the phone again the last thing that I say will ring in your ears the last thing I said you know I want us to be successful together that means you pick up the phone and you listen to me next time I have to talk and he'll think of me like you know he didn't let me get hit with any surprises he saw there was a problem coming he let you know what the problem was and I feel like working with him again that's how you and he'll never know that because it was because the last thing I said to him was you know I want us to be successful together so let me add a few more variables in the next I'm representing a buyer you have the listing agent you have other buyers that are going to be bidding on the property also so there's other agents trying to get the attention of the listing agent and the listing agent isn't isn't communicating there they're saying as little as possible so you're representing a buyer there are other buyers bidding on the property and the listing agent is being non-communicative what would you how would you navigate in that situation probably the first thing I try is it should be not communicated that means I price in an email it says have you given up on doing business with me okay number have you given up on seeing the Republicans back in the White House in November have you given up on one-line email nothing more you'd be stunned at how quickly you get responses from that I mean be ready to get a response as soon as three minutes probably no more than an hour usually instantaneously when people see them because you beast under what people say no to stop secondly if if you're being non communicated with me then you probably don't feel heard you prompt in our interaction whatever time we were together I was probably trying to get you to say yes the whole time which means I just put myself in a category everybody else there's a pretty good chance you don't remember me I worked really hard to remember yours Steve how you doing Steve what's going on tonight Steve you know how to kids Steve has wife Steve Steve Steve Steve Steve Steve but the reverse is from Chris I'm Chris and I'm working on behalf of a couple of people it'll bill and Kathy from Iowa bill and Kathy been trying to come down lay their entire likelihood this is a place to be what I'm doing now is I'm personalizing and becoming mobile instead of me getting to know you you're getting to know nice little increments here and there ever ever every step of the way you're going to know us as opposed to me try to get to know you or me hammering you with yes you want to make a deal don't you want to make a lot of money don't you and then also whatever comes out of your mouth I'm making sure that you know that I heard you because if you talk and I don't listen then I just wasted your tummy so why should you talk to me I noticed that you are very calm is that natural is that what you learn the B you're very patient you're not trying to rush into anything whereas most salespeople are trying to get it done now get it done now get it done now any thoughts around that I've learned it you know it's not my natural demeanor I'm that you're one of three types every one of you you're one of three types it's our caveman wiring your fight/flight make friends a sort of friend oriented analytical the flight guy is a very analytical guy my natural born type is the fight assertive negotiator Donald Trump and I are the same type asserted in our buddies one of those to begin with the rest of us learned you become the best negotiator you could possibly be when you understand which each attributes to the other types make you better there's no one best type you begin to learn the the the friend oriented people is six times more likely to make a deal with somebody you like aciss urges go like a lot of guys smiles all the time makes more deals than I do you have to smile so it's learned and talk about what's the role of patience in the negotiations patience is a weapon and just like silence you know there's the we call them effective forces just slightly be impatient first of all patience is an advantage because it makes you the site feel less pushed there's a core need for autonomy one of the fundamental core needs it's why this country's here because of our need for autonomy so the more patient was armed or the other person feels their autonomy is being respected the easier it is for them to respond to you then also I had a judge in a trial New York he had to get a great phrase he said like to say we're going to delay things in order to save time now the position I was in with the FBI overseeing hostage negotiation teams across the United States I would see a siege in Atlanta and a siege in Portland and I would see the guys in Atlanta work that siege and be done in three hours and the guys of Portland work it and would take him eight the guys in Atlanta were real deliberate and they didn't rush into anything and they took their time and talk things out and heard people out the guys in Portland was commander wants to know when we're going to get this done we got to get this guy out and they were very directed it would very action-oriented and the you know let's get the processing gate let's get this start let's start talking and I can see the people that were the most direct and the most engaged take twice as long as the people that were the most relaxed you seem to say in the book that negotiations are more about emotion than logic and reason right how do you see that applying in a real estate negotiation alright so we make decisions based on what we care about which makes decision making by definition and emotional process reason is what we think up after we our gut has told us what we want to do so if you're willing to accept that then you begin to understand what are some of the one of the principle components of what makes up emotional decision-making that the negatives are three times as powerful as the positives and then the last thing we add in is a hostage negotiator we always look for what the recent loss was and as it turns out the dominating theory of how the biggest not the only factor but the biggest factor is people's fear of loss and they want Danny Kahneman who wrote the book Thinking Fast and Slow won a Nobel Prize for that so if I understand loss is an issue and I understand what these tools how to navigate them and then I when I hear people saying something that is contradictory to what they really want which happens all the time then I'll say something like wow you know somebody says why can't get is listening because my brother-in-law is a real estate agent so it sounds to me like your relationship with your brother knows more importantly than sell a house that's a hospital but that what that was the label that was a Hopkins negotiation skill so tell me if there's a difference here in that situation a script in real estate so a realtor would say in that so what's more important to you your relationship with your brother-in-law or getting your home sold for the highest price is that different than what you just said in anyway the differences are and they're to depend upon person's brain I need to get through quicker with a question or I get through quicker with the tools that I just used which was a label and so there are some people that when asked questions because we're hostage negotiators gather information but I don't always gather information by asking questions I want you to give me an unguarded and an honest response you are less likely to give me an unguarded or honest response as a result of a question even what question which is a very good question the bread and butter of your question should be what now but some people immediately get their back up and they become guarded with questions so instead of saying you know what's more important to sell in a house or your relationship with your brother mom I just observed the dynamic that's taking place or what you're telling me is well I would say no no he said he sounds like I was like it sounds like your relationship with your brother owns more important sell announced well it sounds like you're willing to leave money on the table in order to preserve your relations and so now we're getting to know that's another way to get to to no direct right yeah because then now that was possibly know that I'm not doing exactly and then they feel in control and they feel protected and they don't understand where the feeling of control came from and the feeling of protection came from but so consciously they know it came from you so now when you're the trust business they connect feelings of being protected with the sound of your voice reading your name and seeing your face you said each word has a different emotional impact can you say more about that well I am you I a self-centered you is a provocation good or bad depend upon the context I like the word I a lot but I'm getting ready to be assertive and I'll say I'm sorry and that'll be assertive we use empathy so we can be assertive and it's an empathic way I won't be assertive and then apologize that was that's bad time I would say we can't do this I'm sorry I'll say I'm sorry we can't do this I know the sequencing of the emotional impacts so use I when I need to be is usually used best when you're saying no or setting about so this is important we can't do this I'm sorry versus I'm sorry we can't do that right apologize first and that can change the whole what you're saying is that can change the whole dynamic right of a negotiation just that right switching or worse yeah absolutely two reasons first of all we apologize before they know where you're apologizing for think alike oh you're sorry which means both got instant attention anytime that you provoke someone into attention your words automatically have more weight also when you say I'm sorry first as fast as in line works they run to the entire damage they don't know what it's going to be you know I'm sorry they think you're going to say your home is being foreclosed on the FBI has a warrant for your arrest and your children are in jail so in that moment also knowing how the brain works negatively then whatever I say after that spy going to be relief I you know I different different context the same analogy I get a woman was working in a business where she wants some time off and they're short-handed and they've had people quit she goes into the boss and says I'm sorry gets a really bad news for it he'll is even quit she said I just need some extra time off oh god yeah you got so I know how the sequencing works so if you know how it works why don't you why don't you use it it's understanding how it works and then change changes in the sequencing around how do you balance tactical empathy with them getting to know you is there a contradiction there or is that a competing no I want I want both things to happen at the same time what I want them to get to know from me is that they could trust me and then I'm a straight shooter and if I get bad news I'm not going to hide it from them because that just builds that much more trust so how do you build trust what are some of the things that enables you to build trust with someone you're dealing with okay right off the bat we do what's called a cold read and we never say I understand everything but we'll say all right so if I met you for the first time I'll say this is situation you find yourself in this is what the real estate market looks like today this is the challenges that are being faced by buyers and sellers here's what some of the problems are here's the problems that happen every single time if you navigate these with a certain amount of time this is how it's gonna go and what's that done is it immediately it showed that you know something about the market and you probably say if your first time I'm going to tell you what you're thinking I will do read of the situation of you and I will tell you what it is initially I wanted two things happen as I say wise person really knows what they're talking about well they go no no this is what it is here's what you need to understand which means you haven't hit when they correct you you have an instant collaboration going on then when you listen now they feel this great sense of trust and predictability as much as anything else I don't want surprises as a football player and you know a little bit about that right I was trained to read react right and then close right and reading a lot was about being prepared you know how you know being able to size up a situation quickly right and that meant I had to study formations down and distance tendencies all those things so the moment I light up lined up in a quick second you looking through I'm reading fast through okay this is what I think is going to happen right then the play starts and then I've got to react you know I have an assignment I've got to do my assignment and if it has a linebacker if the gap opens up I've got to shoot the gap and make the play is it is there a similar pattern that happens in a negotiation yeah which I would say is almost word-for-word I mean you take what you've known you've read it you make some predictions and then you're prepared to adapt there is a colon power phrase never let your ego get so tied to a position that if the position collapses your ego goes with it so when you do a read you can't say it's going to happen like this because when it beers your ego is tied to that wanted to go certain way what I was doing kidnapping negotiation I got to the point where I used to think all right there's only about five different ways this could possibly go whichever one it is I'll go with it I've seen now didn't it before you went into a negotiation did you have that talk with yourself you know this is what I think can happen here I take a rough read of the situation yeah and they're there few situations you go into that even if you've never seen it before you can start making some pretty good guesses and so I so somebody someone at home are they going to be emotional yes if it was my first day as a real estate agent and it was the first person that I ever spoke to I'd look at it I'd say selling your home's got to be an emotional process they won that's all I know so once you can start adding to your read adding to your depth of experience and then empathy is recognition and articulation so you're going back and you see in what you're rec what you're recognizing then you're articulating it that answer your question yes the how do you how do you train yourself what I hear with Realtors all the time they're always trying to use logic they're always trying to use facts and convincing someone of their arguments right rather than you talk about you know trying to find out what the emotion is underlying the situation right and all this triggers back to your first example how you do it it's really awkward at first because everyone's got these habits that they're so tied into everyone in the room they basically negotiate on autopilot would you agree they do the same thing you go back to your hand over and over again yeah how do you start to unwind these habits just lay up here you know saying you know what I think I hear you saying verses you seem to say right just that little thing you have to consciously think about using the word you versus I how do you how do you in all your training how do you get people to start doing things differently that feel awkward uncomfortable and a lot of it seems very counterintuitive right right yeah yeah it is kind of intuitive here you are you're going into a negotiation this is how you get paid and now you're going to do something that feels awkward counterintuitive that's that's a big leap yet yes or no it's a big leap if you look at it all at once okay so how do you break it down what do you do to break it down you pick a skill and on a day when you haven't got a lot at stake which are so if you're not negotiate with sellers or buyers on Monday whatever on Monday all day long no matter what happens I'm going to let the other person talk first and I'm just going to try to paraphrase everything I hear it's a low stakes day what this gets into is as a rule I call it the rule 67 somewhere between one and sixty seven tries you're going to get it and if you try it and if you just spend the day doing it you probably get 20 tries in that day and so we'll pick different negotiation skills and out and I'll say I'll tell some today's paraphrased a you're not allowed to do anything other than paraphrase everybody you talk to today all day long and do it in a low-stakes day when you're not negotiating a deal in your life by the end of the day you're going to be like wow that was a cool day I get stuff out of people I never expected to get out of them and that's how you get it just it comes to you very quickly your thing that you have to watch out for though is it's a perishable skill it's like any it's a skills not riding a bike so requires a certain amount of maintenance afterwards you can't just acquire it and say well I can label whenever I feel like it you have to still be able to use juicy skills in your everyday conversations so that when you're talking to seller or buyer then the recognition comes so how many hostage negotiators are there in the country you have any idea yeah I got a rough idea and how many of them and how many of them would experience and what kind of experience they're on any given point in time the FBI's got about 400 NYPD has about 400 LAPD probably has there there's negotiators and there's waters or duel hats so there's a lot of them but since there's so many of them not that many of them actually get to do real-life negotiation and is there real like do they have to go through training or can anyone just be a hostage negotiator yeah every agency has their own training their own training requirements the FBI provides training to law enforcement for free so the vast majority of hostage negotiators in the u.s. have been trained by the FBI and would you taught a lot of classes now what have you learn about people and their natural tendencies towards negotiating versus what you think would be more effective you know there's a couple natural tendencies are getting away if you're control oriented that gets in your way they're all control for it right away if you're uncomfortable it will be uncomfortable two or three people are very uncomfortable with silence and they can't keep quiet that's that's the problem yet you have to be comfortable with silence some people are scared to learn you know they're afraid that it's an admission of weakness or vulnerability and they don't they don't want to met that that say they need to learn more stuff so you know those kind of things getting our way you talked about this addiction - yes which right here in the room are you saying that first you want to get to know in order to then have the possibility to get to yes or you are you trying to get to a no in the beginning the trend of point how clouded the other person's flawed patterns are like if I if I'm talking to somebody that I can see like if somebody's not listening at all then I'll get you to say no a couple times because it'll startle ya and it'll it'll break you out of this internal thought pattern and at that point in time what I'm going to go for after that is I'm gonna try to say a couple things to you that you'd be surprised in a really good way that I noticed no I'll say it sounds to me like this is really Wayne handling on your mind sense of me like it looks to me like you got a lot on your plate you know I'll do a read of your body language when I come up and the look on your face to see if I get a feeling of what you what mood you later I mean my first first thing to you I might say like long day is it beneficial when you're going into a negotiation to think about why the deal won't work oh I'll look for why you think it won't work okay is why you think it will work is going to be the most important thing so I'm going to be looking for reluctance and hesitation like if for some reason if you accidentally ask somebody a question where you're trying to get them to say yes and they go okay stop right there there's that there's a hole to dive down into is the other thing that happens when someone gives you a hesitation of the total voice at all is they're hoping you pick up on it hoping hoping hoping that you hear it if you gloss over what you just taught them was you're not listening in the book you talk about your right versus that's right tune this is a your right kind of crowd you laughter a kiss of death the essence of death absolute somebody looks at you and says you're right we say that when we're talking to people that we want to maintain a relationship with and we want them to shut up and go away and and within my company that we have a working joke that when we say you're right you're really saying after you to the other person and I'm having a discussion giving my Director of Operations a few months ago and and he said hammer me on something and finally and he was so passionate about it finally I just said to him you're right anyone okay because we but you're right is really bad it's it's bad it's what people say to you when they want you to stop talking trash [Applause] [Music] [Music]

Channel: Performance Coaching

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Id: yPsvgmZlVuQ

Length: 77min 52sec (4672 seconds)

Published: Sat Apr 22 2017