How To Fight The Devil With Spiritual Warfare

hey everybody welcome back to another episode of the Catholic talk show today we're going to be talking about spiritual warfare yeah we're gonna look at what the Catholic Church scripture and the tradition of the saints teaches about engaging in battle against the forces of darkness and one of the greatest warriors in this battle same Ignatius of Loyola let's ask for his prayers [Music] [Applause] [Music] alright guys really excited to be back in the studio with you guys we have a very special guest with us today his name is Dan Burke Dan welcome to the show it's great to be with you guys I'm super excited to have him on the show we've known each other for almost 10 years now and just the spiritual side of of your ministry is absolutely powerful I think I reached out to you years ago because you had a book on spiritual direction which really helped me in my life and so I got to know you more and more and I've seen you develop now you're you're a cookies the co-founder of the avila Institute which is a spiritual school for religious and lay people and now you you're you're writing an another book called spiritual warfare and the discernment of spirits so we're going to get into that today I'm just fascinated by your personal story how you came about where God developed this and put it in your heart to offer this to our church and so as we dive into this let's let's discuss just a little bit about your history and and what qualifies you and what what has sparked you to get involved in the spiritual life of the church so deeply yeah so just to be clear I'm not qualified to do anything I do he doesn't call the qualified he qualifies the called well humility is a powerful attribute in spiritual I see with these guys all the time claiming any humility either I you know I what I tell people is is that I'm incredibly messed up and so I need a ton of help and so most of my work is first to try to find my own way I came out of a pretty rough background and and find my own way to healing and to peace and and then by God's grace he's given me a platform to then help others to do the same I mean it's a I think the first verses in second Corinthians says that we are comforted with which the comfort others with which with the comfort that we saw seeds right so yeah so it's just that's the way it works right yeah and him as we get healed and we hope others yeah yes so talk a little bit about your what you were healed from and and and where that all began yes so I grew up in in some pretty seriously abusive situation the first Catholic I ever met fired again in my home and in between firing a gun in my home and an argument with my mother and beating her in to the emergency room he attempted to convince me the Catholic Church was the one true faith which is a really lousy form of evangelism yeah and it just doesn't work right now but my mother was also involved in the occult I mean I love her dearly but she was looking for answers she's suffering a lot of people do that and unfortunately sometimes when you call most of the time god be praised when you call into the darkness there is no answer in our home there was an answer and it was terrifying as a child and there was a demonic presence because of seances because of consulting with mediums and all of that sort of thing I mean more also Jewish and and went to Temple at the same time you know which is also common but nominally you know it did our faith was more a social construct than a real deep you know Judaism but anyway back low how did this affect you as a kid now that you've come on the other side and experience God's love I think just terror you know most in total almost total disorientation all the time so I just struggled to survive and by the time I was 20 I was ready to put a bullet in my head and because I couldn't conceive you know when you leave abuse and you leave that kind of crazy environment I moved out and I thought everything was gonna be okay but you don't leave that you brought it with you yeah when your and I when you've kind of been in hell if you will even even when you accident you always take little pieces of it with you or big pieces in my case and it just took years and years so I came to Christ around 20 just desperate to find answers to suffering and by God's grace I came to to know him but I new hope then so the gun put the gun away but I didn't know even though when Jesus said my peace I leave you my peace I give you not as the world gives that was a haunting thing to me but not a reality that's very curious to know because we did a show on you know why people are leaving the church what's preventing people from actually entering into the doors of the Catholic Church there's all sorts of things in this circumstance I mean there probably can't be a greater reason to stay away from the Catholic Church after what you've suffered and that severe wound of being associated with this type of violence threat and hypocrisy right and then you met the Lord and and how did that where did you find Jesus like how did you find Jesus and well and the worst part was I became a Christian in a Baptist Church was very anti-catholic so the theological framework of that church worked fit really well with my wounds and it really kept me away for a long time but at the beginning of my journey into the Catholic faith was through jehovah's witness who said hey the you know the Catholic Church corrupted everything I'm like yeah that's right and then but and Jesus isn't God and the bad guys won at the Council of Nicaea I'm going well that's not true but I don't know what's this council thing so I just went and found a copy of the early Christian fathers the Apostolic fathers first hundred years I didn't know what I was doing by the way that's not really the book to get right but I started reading that book and of course you all know what happens with everyone who reached those things honestly they you must end up Catholic or Orthodox what happened to me reading Clement Irenaeus right I you know I was raised Catholic but then you know as a teenager everyone mostly tries to find themselves and they slip away from their upbringing Beth I was at a bookstore happened to read I saw this book okay Clement Irenaeus snob I started reading it then you know Polycarp and I'm like this is historically accurate no other religion has actual history city on its side and logic on its side young people are often so incredulous right and then finding something that's historical logical really oftentimes meets that person where they're searching for something that makes sense in this kind of stage in your life where nothing makes sense right yeah and and that was it for me I mean I had been listening to preachers you know like John MacArthur and and you know Walter Martin and all of that and and they were good guys and had a lot of good to say but they when I'm reading Polycarp who's the disciple of the Apostle John who gave his life for his faith I thought so this guy gave his life for his faith this guy you know it's pretty happy fat and happy a few thousand years later and he any discounts this guy discounts all the context that says what does scripture mean by what it says Polycarp was with John and they had conversation after conversation about what Jesus said this is all you know within a hundred years now I think maybe I should listen to Polycarp a little bit more or your næss or you know what about what scripture means by what it says and eventually I came to believe in apostolic succession I was Calvinist soteriological II meaning Calvinist in the sense of understanding how it is that we're saved what's the gospel and then I'm Catholic ecclesiological II because I believe in apostolic succession and now what do I go with that wet wait so I became Anglican of course it's really logical I mean I'm moving closer to Islamic succession I could see that so when I converted to Catholicism I had a caller in a cassock on because I was in seminary to become an Anglican priest so but I just became convinced that the Catholic Church was in one true faith of course you know father the reason that the Eucharist comes to to reality at your hands isn't because you have a great beard of course Oh qualify this as a soap-opera beard you know I I'm not gonna deal with your past wow that is an incredible validation going on for 18 months that that beard is okay makes you guys feel better I'm being nice and I can change a tire so I did so so you know the reason the reason that the the the the host and the wine become the body and blood at your hands is because you can trace your authority all the way back to the Apostles into Jesus and so the laying on of hands gives you that authority and so once I decide once I realize that I'm like okay nobody has authority in the realm I live in to convey the sack give the sacraments to us to mediate that grace only those who've had the laying on of hands throughout all time and so that's I mean that's is this a short version of how why do you think the cassock off and realize you needed to put on some shorts I get really cool I gave my clerics to a young Catholic priests becoming a Catholic priest oh yeah it's really neat I still have a I still have the cassock because it you can wear it as an emcee in men and some diocesan mass and and I've done I've done it it's too hard for me together some world it's beautiful and the person that you still fit into it I do I know I'm not like Ryan where it's I don't know where from gamma le well I I do have one from gamma le but I had one old Jesuit like old-school style the cassock and I have no idea where that disappeared to whatever probably I am asking st. Anthony to help me out with that but I haven't I don't think I'd be able to fit into it just just leave like buttons 15 through 17 out of the 30 Jesuits style cassock it was actually just like one button here a time yeah so it's a little different than than the typical gama rally or the typical you just need an extension yeah that's all when you were going through all of that experience just like study did you begin dialogue or conversation with anybody in the catholic church or was just exclusively your studies no so i'm i'm in a in an Episcopalian Church that I was assigned to in in in Parker Colorado as part of my work in seminary and the priest who overall was the pastor at that parish was becoming Catholic under chapéu archbishop Chaput so it there's a whole backstory to so he began tell me this but he began to give me Scott Hahn and you know Tim gray and and just you know some good stuff some sim I needed some work on justification by faith so he gave me some seminary lectures and and then eventually he revealed to me that hey I'm becoming Catholic and you know so it's crap I mean it's Robin Robin ants right him oh yeah put me in that he's the only one in that area only anglican priest who was converting and God put me in his little parish in Paris and you look at the providential hand of God that is so gentle that moves you the direction of this healing yeah closer and closes closer to the reality of the Catholic Church this beautiful apostolic heritage and truly being reconciled something that was completely from the furthest end of your radar you would never enter a Catholic Church knowing your youth in your adolescence the way now God shepherded you to this beautiful moment of interest what was that like for you well and just to back up there's no way I was becoming Catholic so I went I went I went Greek Orthodox because of Frankie Schaeffer if you guys know he's a the son of one of the most influential Protestant philosophers in last hundred years Francis Schaeffer he converted to orthodoxy they blew up a Sola scriptura for me the Orthodox did and then but they were really loved marry and that kind of freaked me out so I'm like okay I can't be Orthodox so then I I went Anglican because of the the soteriology and ecclesiology but my I was in an egg a very high Anglican Catholic like our liturgies are a door really probably ad orientem there the longer you know the second gospel so it's kind of a mix between the Tritton teen mass and the Novus Ordo in our time very beautiful hour and a half long you know incense always you know so it was very Catholic and then my text books in seminary were Catholic text books so I'm just you know eventually I'm just going okay I just need to go but when I came in the other thing was drawing me in it relates to what we're talking about today is actually my exploration in Catholicism begin more seriously through Catholic mystical tradition because I had a very I mean I would my conversion was radical you know and I've always been crazy for Jesus door-to-door and all that sort of stuff evangelism and it's never really stopped but I was struggling with prayer and I was struggling with the interior life and I came across a book compiled by a Protestant that was a bunch of Catholic mystics but they were D Catholicism a Bella was Teresa daya Hamada which was wrong her name prior to her profession I'll see that in some books and I'm Malik okay right but it helped me because I'm going oh wow these their answers to my struggles and then I've but I dug and dug and realize oh they well this is a Catholic this is a Catholic this is a Catholic priest is a Catholic saint and so that began to draw me so as I'm studying the Apostolic fathers and the Catholic mystical tradition is sort of converged in in my conversion but I forgot your question I don't know if I'm answering no you're actually moving in that direction is this yeah and then when did you when did you walk into the doors of the church and and your right of acceptance yeah yeah so I entered into our CIA in the summer of 2005 and I was still enrolled in seminary at the time which is kind of I was really stressing about telling my bishop because I loved my he's a very good man but our CIA at Our Lady of Loretto Parish and in Parker Colorado wonderful folks the head of the program is a Carmelite and my primary influences and Catholic mystical tradition are and were a Carmelite mostly Teresa of ávila and then eventually John's across and when she and I talked it's like we connected like at a very deep level very few words but very deep connection so I was in our CIA and about you know that that summer I'm what I believe I you know I came to believe of course that the the graces of the sacraments are mediated through the priesthood the Catholic priesthood so it's really started to irritate me frankly sitting in mass and watching everyone else all you people taking the Eucharist it really started troubled me and I and I knew the faith better than I was being taught in our CIA it's not just because I had argued against it for so many years and I taught you know I taught a nine-month course in where that was attended by priests Anglican priests on a comparison between the 39 articles of Anglicanism and and Catholic teaching and contrasted them and Lutheran teaching so it's like I knew the I knew I just needed to flip my I need to flip sides you know I did you know so I went about mid-july went to the head of the program and I said listen I'm cooked I believe the Catholic Church is the church that Jesus founded I believe in the Magisterium I said I I thought I understood Catholic soteriology how we are saved and I don't and I and I married this Mary thing drives me a bit crazy I said but I will submit because this is Jesus Church and I will learn and I will and I will conform my entire life to the teachings of the church um please let me in now I want to take the Eucharist and so she said well let me let me check on it for you and I think what happened is because my priest was converting under chapéu there was a conversation there because he knew me but when I first met archbishop Chaput he knew who I was by name and I didn't know who I didn't really know I didn't know him so I think what happened is they permission and then they called me back and they said come next Saturday and will confirm you and you'll you know you'll have your first Eucharist and we'll receive you into the church beautiful and Ike and I saw showed up I had no sponsor funny enough cuz I was too early in and I was just on my own and she they said is it will anyone sponsor him officially some old guy in the front I'm an old guy but you know said yeah I'll do it I thought it's like great ok so I but here's the significance of it so I'm this is a Carmelite head of the program I'm reading Carmelite spirituality it's it is my spirituality then and now and I was received and confirmed on the feast of Our Lady of Mount Carmel oh look at that right in July 16th so without any knowledge that that was a feast day or that and it was bit it was a Marian feast it's a retroactive awareness of grace like all right and you see your lady there is beautiful so 2005 and you know it's just been glorious ever since and I could frankly I could care less about the scandals you know somebody asked me the other day and of course I know more than a lot of people know because I've been the president of EWTN news and you know one Bishop met with me a good Bishop actually I'll say who it was Bishop Strickland and said is it really is it really as bad as it is it seems and I said it's it's way worse but here's the thing mckarrick is not a Christian McCarrick is not part of my church you know those that abuse and all that that that you know who's you know who's my church you guys are my church you you know you guys are the real deal you guys love the Lord there are people who've crept in who want to use the church as a means to achieve to a two clove ale in secrecy and abuse people those aren't that's not my church I mean this is Jesus's Church either right the scandals bother me deeply because of the grave harm they do to the people that are affected by them but they don't scandalize me to where they shake my faith not at all I think that's you know an important distinction that you can definitely be concerned about scandals but when they start affecting you you know what I realize that that it affects other absolutely ends and in doing so as the church are we need to go and run to their aid and yes their handout absolutely them to the the realization that it's not like you don't need to worry about and that's precisely what pastoral care is all about that's what being a good witness of Jesus Christ is all about and having contact with the mystical tradition of the church you could see how God has truly cared for you all the way up to the point of introducing you to the Blessed Virgin Mary retro actively right you're entering into the church clearly you're seeing these mystical beginnings in your own spiritual development and look how God has guided you and now you're guiding others it goes full circle back to what you were sharing before and by pastor Lee caring for people that are you know really walking out of the church Jordan would never even enter into the door of the church based on scandal based on violence based on horrific actions yeah you know if Jesus is in the middle of this church because he founded it Victor there is a mystical tradition that is the church yeah and we could separate ourselves it's it's hard to say okay was McCarrick from his birth and and from if from when he was conceived you know separated from the church was he when he was Baptists at what point is we can all separate ourselves from grace you can we can all move away from this mystical tradition yeah and and that's what's regretful and that's what's heartbreaking scandal people who cause scandal give others poison people who are scandalized scandalized by drink the poison poison yeah I want to I want to take this opportunity especially because of this distraction and what how it harms people spiritually to like dive into our topic a little bit more spiritual warfare and and listen to the spiritual aspect of your journey and how being you know someone who is around such darkness in this time of your quest for truth right and finding trip peace yeah and and and yeah that that's yeah so you're finding truth but how did the piece come through this this this process because you know you talk about it still today like you're still affected by it yeah yeah well and I think one of the reasons I wrote this book by the way cuz it it it segues perfectly is to give people peace in this time of this you know we're in a storm yes their darkness is descending outside and inside the church yeah and we need to be a light and we need to be free but if we're not free we can't help other people so for me I'd be you know I could be came a Christian I I gained a sense of hope put the gun away you know but then realize you know I'm I'm not I don't have peace like jesus promised what does he mean by that so for me it's always okay I read scripture and I was voraciously reading Scripture and I see something in it and it doesn't reflect in my life what my question is why of course this is God's Word right it's totally reliable and trustworthy so if I if I'm if I'm experiencing something contrary that doesn't mean there's a problem with the text it means there's a problem with me so I studied the the New Testament voraciously about suffering because I was suffering a lot always had severe physical ailments life-threatening even to this day and so why am i suffering why am i suffering emotionally mentally and physically what is God's will in all this so I just began to read through the New Testament and st. Paul really began to kind of give me a pathway to freedom st. Paul experienced a lot of suffering and spiritual something and physical suffering and suffering that he inflicted himself in his journeys and inflicted on him by others I mean st. Paul doesn't get enough credit for the amount of suffering he was willing to go through for the Lord right I mean he's a Jew I mean he's he was a disciple of Gamaliel who's you know and in the book of Acts there's an argument that he gives to how to deal with I mean he he was a prominent Jew it'd be like you know the the lead rabbi in the world if you will or of Jerusalem which is actually happened converting but that that tears at the flood rips apart your entire social fabric and you know you're giving up your whole life when you do that so for me I began to study the New Testament and st. Paul started to give me the light he knows so there's there's he says in Romans 8 the the mind set on the flesh is death but the mind set on the spirit is life in joy in peace what does that mean Corinthians he says that we were not against flesh but against principalities and powers so there's a battle and he says that we it's related to strongholds where are those strongholds in the mind right every argument raised up against the knowledge of God so there's a battle there's the ability to have peace there's speaks of a peace that passes understanding that transcends understanding you know the other passages that really bugged me st. James Canon all joy right at the beginning my brother when you encounter various trials you know it's a and and then the joy of being how is it that the Apostles could feel joy when they were just beaten and told they can't everything's taken away from them how do they experience joy when some of their compatriots are in the faith are hanging up a hundred yards away on a cross their entire family has been taken away from them all their rights and liberties imprisoned there and but yet they're told to have joy that's nuts that's nuts right so I'm going okay if they had it I can have it I just got to find it so it was this process in other passages Romans 12 where it says be not conformed to this world would be transformed by the renewal of your mind so what you're hearing though it's memorization right but that was part of the renewal process tayi replacing junk in my head lies I was told as a kid like your worthless piece of can't say it on the show because you didn't have to edit it out no lies that I was told I had to begin to unravel them and begin and then James 4:7 it says you know draw near to God resist the devil you it resists the devil and he will flee from here you draw near to God he'll draw near to you is the devil battle principalities of powers so I started to put it all together it's the it's the it's the warfare right I mean you started to see the battlefield yeah that is really really interesting because just yesterday we were speaking about that barri section of the book of James in relationship to spiritual warfare and now I could see how God has taken you up into this point and entering into the arena of spiritual warfare by mystical tradition because that mystical tradition produces the fruits of joy and peace which I absolutely love yeah absolutely so now before we get into kind of the finer points the nuances and the tactics and the strategies of spiritual warfare why don't you let everyone know about our sponsors and how that can help them 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warfare I think one of the foundational texts in the New Testament about spiritual warfare comes from Ephesians 6 sure and Ephesians 6 is I mean very directly st. Paul talking about battling against evil particularly Ephesians 6:10 through 17 and right there I mean if you are in the midst of a spiritual battle that's a first place that you can go to read that so you understand how to arm yourself with the armor of God and that says finally brethren be strengthened in the Lord and in the might of his power put you on the armour of God that you may be able to stand against the deceits of the devil for our wrestling is not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers against the rulers of the world of this darkness against the spiritual the spirits of wickedness in the high places therefore take unto you the armour of God then you Mabel be me may be able to resist the evil day and to stand in all things perfect stand therefore having your loins Girt with the truth and having the breastplate of justice this passage is st. Paul laying probably the foundations of Catholic spiritual warfare tradition yeah and it's so important so beautiful and so robust and virile and manly and confident that if you're struggling with it this is a place where you can start building that confidence and the confidence of entering into the battlefield and and realizing the darkness of the world you know the violence that you experienced and the setting in which your conversion began this metanoia began you know looking back to the experience of what your mother suffered and you visually seeing that yeah you know that type of combat you know for you to enter into this kind of reconciled moment now in your journey what is the battle been like for you you know and and what is it what does that kind of can how does that show itself in your journey your ministry yeah and everything God's doing in your life now that's a great question I mean it was torment for me it and it nearly correct me in a one way though it helped me write because I know I'm saying and and I've seen I visually seen the demonic as a child and it helped me I think the Holy Spirit said to me now you've seen the darkness now there's there's an answer to that right there's my enemy right and so it helped me to really I think I have the gift of faith because of that in the sense that I've never doubted since I came to Christ I know some people struggle with that I don't struggle with one of the principles of spiritual warfare is that the devil and the dark forces are real they are part of the mystery' the mystery of salvation yeah and that God permits us to be put to the test no doubt but then he that but there's a reason for the test and the test is for our purification for our healing so I you know I went through the New Testament I basically developed a little spiritual warfare strategy where James says resistant he'll flee and we have the mind and all of that so I began to I identified the lies that I believed as the strongholds from the passage that you just read and then I would just say in Jesus name I reject the lie that I'm a piece of blank that I heard my mother say about me to a friend that just ripped into the core of my being and wrecked me for decades right sorry but I said I said I'm I I reject that lie and I accept the truth that before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1 I was set apart in the Psalms that I was knit together in my mother's womb that I have an eternal destiny that God brought me into existence at because he loves me and he wants me he wants me to be with him eternally you know so you begin to replace the lie in Jesus name that's the that's how you fight the passage you read that's how you literally do it in Jesus name and then you say you know in Jesus name I accept the truth lord help me to live in that truth and you just every time you feel and experience a lie you were play it you fight it you know this is my mind not yours yeah up all other principles I think that relate to that of spiritual warfare is number one the battle is already won yes Jesus Christ won that battle and the devil another principle is that the devil should not be paid too much attention because his victory the victory over the devil has already been won right I can't ignore it because yeah it's like the I don't want to get cocky it's at the Battle of New Orleans that happened after the end of the war of 1812 it still was a battle even though the war had already been won yeah all right and be making sure that your would you like that reference yeah you don't know that a historian is everything understanding that that that would have killed on NPR you know submitting yourself to God submitting yourself to the order that he has already won and not paying too much attention to the devil but being aware of his tactics are the first things that you can do in the name of Christ to start fighting the spiritual battles that are going on in your life yeah is that why you name the book spiritual warfare and the discernment of spirits is this where that comes in sort of the easterly aspect at the human aspect of calling on God and knowing where things are coming from yeah so your battle you're touching into now the warrior the spiritual warrior of st. Ignatius who he was because the the second half of the book is about him teaching you how to see when the enemy's attacking you what thoughts he's trying to put in your mind and he was a great warrior a great Spanish warrior who got hit by a cannonball he was that he was a at a physical earthly warrior fighting war yeah armor it was very audacious I mean he's always getting in fights and then he you know but cannonball he started a fight with a neighboring you know city or you know whatever and and he was he was put up in in in his sister-in-laws house Oh and so apparently the only book she had were books about Saints and the Bible right I'm gonna talk to her and heaviness was totally messed up and he needed to connote come to Jesus so that's so he starts reading on that and then he and then he realizes the movements interiorly like when he when he visualized conquests women battles he had the experience of darkness when he visualized being a saint he experienced consolation race so that so he says at that point his eyes were opened a little but then long-term he begins to develop this this sort of warrior structure the rules like how does the devil work how does God work and he wrote a number of sets of rules but this book I cover the first set of rules one through 14 which are really for 99% of Catholics it's you know how does the so here's here's one thing that he blows up that's a really common bad advice the bad advice is if you have pieces of God that's not true because in the first rule he says that if you're going from mortal sin to mortal sin the devil will give you a kind of false peace and comfort in your sin and God will make you really unhappy and uncomfortable telling you you shouldn't be sleeping with that girl that's my daughter you're not married to her abusing her and you're using her you know you're a Catholic you know you're baptized you know you're gonna go to hell if you don't stop doing this and so that's how the good Spirit works makes you uncomfortable with your sin and the bad spirit makes you comfortable or gives you a false peace and it's really interesting yeah right so maybe so I mean it's it's beautiful and then rules 2 through 14 or about people like you guys going from good to better right you're fighting intensely Ignatius uses the word intensely toward the good and and then he lays out now here's how here's how the devil works and here's how God works and it's it's it's liberating for me I came through I I gained a great deal of health in Jesus as a Protestant I even went through a deliverance that had a really you know powerful it was a legit experience of liberation in Jesus name because of particular sins that I have committed and how I had acquiesced to the enemy's work and it was so deep that I needed to have a deliverance but you always experience that uncomfortableness moving you forward and forward to my deeper understanding of the faith role yeah because I you know I'm studying at this time of course the mystical tradition and then the father's and it leads to an inevitable end in the Catholic Church but after I became Catholic of course this the grace of the sacraments and then the the deeper dive into the mystical tradition you discover Saints like Saint Ignatius and you realize you know I don't need Buddha to help me to find pieces mindfulness junk that's good popularized in the church it's you know and also many answers and we look too quickly to drugs we look too quickly to things that are not you know that are already in our faith but I became free of the nightmares of the demonic manifestations of anxiety of and I live in a really I now I thank God a beautiful life of peace through living out the Catholic faith right and through practicing the spiritual disciplines that the church proposes through the priestly ministry of receiving that you know the greatest graces we can receive is what you give us in the Eucharist or what you give us in reconciliation after Baptism and Confirmation but then learning how to fight daily because because yes we don't make a big deal about the devil but it is true that some of the thoughts in your head are not yours and you shouldn't listen to them and he's constantly trying to get you to sin or to divide those a demonic obsession that all that little thought in your head making you continue to think about whether there's a traumatic thing that you contextualise in your life that allows you to justify sin right whether it's a compulsion towards a continuous in the vehicle struggle with he's they are always there making suggestions allowing you to act on it and and that's where st. Ignatius just really steps out in the forefront of the church's tradition as a spiritual warrior but also one who has just pinpoint precision yeah in in dialing in on these thoughts because angels and demons appeal to thought yeah then it is our entertaining of those thoughts doesn't mean that we can't generate our own thoughts or net out of compulsion we act but no it's important to delineate between that and it seems like you go into greater detail on this book in that specific delineation of this sort of spirit yeah so you know every day all day there are two forces working in our lives one is to bring us to heaven and one is to bring us to hell every day all day and when you understand those forces which is the process of discernment one you're aware that it's true that it's happening to you understand what's happening and then you know what how to act what you reject or you embrace you reject of course the works of the enemy and you embrace the consolation of God but being the the what transformed so many of my students at the Avila Institute and this is another reason I wrote the book seventy percent of the students we we survey after they take the course discernment of spirits say that it totally it totally transformed their spiritual life they've said that not me on the scale of one to ten why is that because they realize I've been depressed for years but that's not me we're all it's outside of me oh I have the power in Jesus name to be free oh I can be free Oh I can be free I'm I could be free and and they they get the realization and then they then they start to fight and we teach them how to fight and we teach them how to renounce right and there's some of those practical tips that allow them to start to realize how to fight that yeah so I mean I'll just give you one example it's in its what I learned in in the New Testament as well but just renouncing in the name of Jesus like yesterday I had desolation I taught the classes I'm teaching that class discernment of spirits right now I was teaching last night I had desolation coming into the class so I I did what Ignatius says to do one of the one of the things he says when you're in desolation the enemy likes to work in secret like a guy who's trying to you know woo the his a daughter of a good man or the wife of a good manner but as soon as though as soon as you reveal what the enemy is doing because you're aware and you understand because I and I'm aware I'm in desolation and I understood what to do then you tell he says tell somebody who's holy right so I have a prayer group that's constantly praying for me and so I just text in whatsapp I put desolation so then they all start praying my wife calls me she says what's going on I said this is what's going on and by the time we were done talking the desolation lifted why why did the attack go away I don't know why you know we're creatures that Devils ain't demons or creatures right there made a certain way but in turn but similar to like a robber who's trying to steal something from your house and they come up to the house and the automatic lights go being so now everyone can see them and foil them the enemies the same way so as soon as you know and you tell somebody who's holy it's just like putting the lights on and he flees and it ruin it reduces his power that is a perfect definition of resistance right resist the devil and he will flee yeah and we cannot resist alone isolated insult we can't we can't do that it's it's a battle and we cannot battle alone and that's why we were sharing before the show you were talking about you don't enter into like a circle of an exorcism or any other type of you know spiritual warfare without authority yeah and how the bishop is the full authority yeah in this in this battle yeah and how he delegates the priests I've seen into in certain circles of Christian healing ministry and other types of forms of prayers of deliverance where they where there's groups that separate themselves from the priests I wonder if you can comment a little bit more about that particular battle in relationship to exorcism some of your experiences as well as contextualizing that authority yes so I've been in a number of exorcisms and assisting a priest not how many about 2500 full rights exorcisms and in in a very extremely difficult case you know it's like movie sort of stuff yeah and when I when I was trained for it you know the priest said listen you know I know you know this but do do do not do anything that I don't tell you to do do not pray anything I don't tell you to pray you you you have to be in perfect obedience why because you're entering into an incredibly dangerous space there's a person who's legitimately possessed and there's power in that room that can wreck you and the only way that I'm safe as a layperson and the priest is safe is that they perform the Rite as the church has dictated and as is given to them Authority by the bishop and the only way I'm safe is well and we're also safe by this is by being in a state of grace you cannot go into an exorcism if you're not in a state of grace meaning that you would go to confession before you go to confession or just normatively so we'd go to confession frequently and pre and often there's we off the priests will offer confession to each other in at because most exorcisms have more than one priest and they offer it to one another into whoever's doing the prayer support like we were doing so you enter in and because you're in it and the enemy wants to get you to engage why does he want that because I don't have authority as soon as I step out and engage I've just broken the demons are very legalistic because they they know you know they're bound by the structure the authority of their creator right so so the priest will tell you he will try to get you to talk to him or want to get you to fight don't don't do that priest will tell you he will try to get you to take on the suffering of the victim there's actually been a case of possession that I think father ripburger talked about where somebody did that and and somebody was possessed instantly because they the demon told him to do it and they but they didn't know it was but they had compassion so you got to manage your emotions you got to manage your mind all that so now back to your question this is the problem with deliverance ministry that is not under authority like so I've been involved in some of that under Authority in the sense that unlike Unbound is a real popular thing and there's a lot of good about it but the thing that I would say that every Catholic involved in that should do is one they should be doing it under authority of the priest and two it should be tied to the sacraments into the priesthood because in just about every one of those sessions what do you discover unconfessed mortal sin that's tying you back unforgiveness whatever how do you solve that is it solved in that session no way it's helped but the liberation gives you the freedom of the will which is what exorcism is about by the way to go where to go to your priest and to confess your sins confession is a it's more powerful than an exorcism the Rite of exorcism is less powerful than what you do every time you know this every time you say i absolve you in the name of the few no so we need to be more tied sacramentally to priests to the priesthood not just running off and doing these deliverance things on our own I so appreciate you really underlining that for our audience as well as just living that out in your ministry I I say this in respect to marriage counseling because I do a lot of counsel for married couples and you know when there is sin active and this isn't to denounce the work that counselors do or psychologists sure that can help sincerely but when there is sin between spouses that is unconfessed right you're not going to rebound that's right you will not rebound you don't have the strength of grace not have the strength of grace and you will persist in that depression that anxiety and that conflict yeah as long as you want unless you go to concussion yeah I think it's really important to note that the most a facie sand powerful weapons in spiritual battle are the sacraments it is Eucharist it is confession that's right it is chrismation it is the sacramentals that will assist you those are your side pieces you know but those are all tied to to the sacramental grace and the priest exactly yeah and that's because that is the way that the authority of Christ is exercised in our earthly tribe in our earthly lives yeah and it's very dangerous when you step outside of that and I don't like do preparatory prayers prayed by laypeople in that context because I mean what I mean by that sorry technical term commands if you you the only person who has the authority to come to speak to a demon directly to someone they is not part of their family line is a priest Exorcist with the authority from the bishop so as a layperson like for you if you were trouble to something I wouldn't you would never hear me say in the name of Jesus I command demon X to leave Ryan yeah the people without the proper authority you know a police officer can say you are under arrest and you are under arrest because they have been deputized and they have the authority to place you in that state by those words now you could do a citizen's arrest but good luck arresting someone with a citizen's arrest you know there is definitely a distinction here where I know some people who have a prayer group and then someone's like you know um you know hoping for this petition or I'm struggling with such-and-such and everybody just prays over that's fine that's fine right so there is a distinction here I think that's but but then once you once you start saying words of prophecy once you start saying words of you know command over someone yeah I have to be very very careful of that yeah I've got to discern what I'm receiving in prayer I've seen it so many times because I'm charismatic I've been in a number of charismatic circles of Prayer where somebody says something over someone and now this is disturbed them ever since then for years because they've believed it and it wasn't even coming from God in the first place Hotch it was because of the fruits if the fruits of the spear freedom and if st. John Paul the second is accurate and stating what Scripture you know explains is that Christ set us free for freedom's sake and and this isn't the fruit of this movement well it's it's not a part of God you have been you've been constrained by this and this could happen in circles that are operating without authority now there's something when you were describing you know what you do under spiritual attack something that I learned was you know I do not have to go there I do not have to entertain this I rebuke you Lord Jesus Christ son of the Living God have mercy on me a sinner cover me in your precious blood and protect me from all evil and and that type of a it's like immediate grace that that hits and out of curiosity could you share a little bit more about what you do personally yeah that other lay men and women can do personally in their own spiritual warfare that they face tan today and then also talk about your your spiritual warfare course that yeah yeah I think you can further that yes so what I do personally is always in a state of grace by God's grace a frequent confession the sacramental foundation is necessary for that armor to actually even exist that you read about then beyond that I pray eggs ilium Christian or in prayers for the laity every single day which is a worldwide community of people who are involved in deliverance ministry what was that again sovereign ilium aux ili um CH RI STI a and oru M sorry I said no Latin today but Xillia unchristian arm it's a worldwide community of people who pray for one another against the work of the enemy and it's seven minutes a day and every lay person can do this you can find them online there's an app you got to pray the priest for the lady not for the pre no not the prayers for the priests but so I do that every day and I do examination of conscience three times a day aware of just of the movements of God or the enemy in the sense that I asked myself on a scale of one am I in desolation or consolation and it why do I do that bees earlier you said you said you said I there was a thought that came and then I rejected and in Jesus name as man when you're trying to be holy you have this idea of custody of the eyes right that's easy to understand but you own the thoughts in your mind and you can control them in Jesus name by God's power sometimes it takes a long time but you said you are aware of the influence and then you took action so I have a constant need and especially because of my background in particular suffering and I'm melancholic I have a constant need to go Kate where am I am i good okay am i in desolation can't get off what do I got to do you know awareness of yourself yeah so I actually Pratt live what I wrote about and because it's necessary for me to be free but I really believe in our time that every Catholic needs to know this wisdom that st. Ignatius gives because for whatever reason demonic freedom is increasing in our time yeah and this book will sincerely help you so make sure that you check this out spiritual warfare and the discernment of spirits by Dan Burke our guest today Dan it is a joy to have you here but before we go we are gonna have Dan explain to you where you can find his material and he has a wonderful opportunity for you that you do not want to miss a webinar coming up very very soon so Dan if you could share a little bit more of like how people can find you online websites you own and then how they can get this webinar spiritual direction calm is thousands and thousands of articles on blog up blog blogs and blogs I'm sorry oh yeah article what is this what are we doing really tongue-tied okay so podcasts that we do and all of that and then Avila - institute.org is we provide graduate studies in personal richman to people in lay lay priests religious in 74 countries I think now preparing men for seminary and 15 diocese as well but in terms of I put together a mini course that's free for you if you get the book and then you want to go a little deeper and you have to pay a thing if you send a text to 3 8 4 7 0 is the number on the screen 7 zero right and then you can then you the message that you send is warfare it'll ask you for your name and an email address will send you the link and you'll get a free course and it gets 14 episodes videos on diving into each of the rules of discernment and the foundation so it's a very generous now yes Catholic talk show calm and you go to this shows episode page below the video where we have our show notes I'll make sure that I put links to spiritual direction calm the avila Institute where you can get the book spiritual warfare and the discernment of spirits and a reminder on how you can text this code warfare 238 470 and get this free course from Dan helping you to start preparing and learning the tactics of spiritual warfare great and Dan may God bless you and your beautiful ministry may he continue to guide you by that gentle Shepherd's touch and you have done such a wonderful job in his name and we thank you for sharing your beautiful testimony and the beautiful work that God has inspired in your life and we want to give a big thank you to our patrons out there that support our show financially if you're considering supporting the show so that you this content and so much more may continue far into the future please consider becoming a patron through patreon go to patreon.com/scishow and there you'll be able to see every way that you can support our show and please follow us on Twitter Facebook and Instagram there you'll be able to see links to all these beautiful things and people that we're interacting with week after week and we want to make sure that we're developing our Communion and our fellowship with you a being big thank you to each of you please keep us in your prayers as we pray for you and we are united in Christ and in that authority we have nothing to fear god bless say medical defendants in battle amen amen [Music] [Applause] [Music] you [Music]

Channel: The Catholic Talk Show

Views: 31,318

Rating: 4.9441586 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, Catholic Podcast, Catholic Talk Show, Ryan Scheel, Ryan DellaCrosse, Father Rich Pagano, Catholic Radio, Catholic TV, Catholic Show, Taylor Marshall, Matt Fradd, Mike Schmitz, Robert Barron, Catholic Answers, Catholic Stuff You Should Know, Church Militant, Bishop Barron, Dan Burke, EWTN, Spiritual Warfare

Id: 9j4C9agApBI

Length: 57min 46sec (3466 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 20 2020