Gangland Enforcer, Paul Ferris Tells All About His Life Of Crime

well you're paul pleased to meet you please yeah and thanks for coming on youtube no problem how's things all right good looking forward to the podcast i know we're about late uh alex arthur was supposed to come and uh join juan wiz but uh he's obviously busy but he's training these young boys through the boxing academy and you obviously got an opportunity to on his own definitely somewhere i'm looking forward to that as well yeah this is a great setup as well devonshire gardens i must be moving up in the world but the last time i was here in fact it was a a meeting i had with bobby kelly all right actor uh paul care my brother jim carr organized the meeting on the basis of bobby kelley going to play me in the proposed movie the wee man the reman it wasn't it specifically called the wee man at that time it was just uh an introduction to meet you bobby kaleil and moving things on but soon became apparent that when i was sitting having a meal maybe bobby the it was sent to me what the [ __ ] we're doing here i've know the script i've known nothing and i think it was just a pr stunt with paul k and i don't mind that at all but not you get good people economy venues and those they hope they'll need prospecting moving on a project because the normal possession of an honor as any actor will need to get the script put in front of him that they even consider taking a role on so the the kind of irony of bobby kelley was he mentioned a lot of people for paisley and i thought how they how do you know how do you know them i used to run a book with him and i thought well how did you never get any trouble he said well i left them they went that way and i went to academy the drama school i went good on you so well just an informal thing nice to meet you i mean is that he's an absolute icon and he's an air listener he's only a list of you on the running for playing the party yeah and actually the the only indication that we got a resort through paul care at the start and it's kind of strange for in davidson gardens again but uh there are bobby's over listening but thanks for his time and opportunity but uh it was just something in which uh to try and play me nowadays he's every bit too older any questions and we just case that will work so we'll go right back to the start where you grew up and what you get involved in and how it all began yeah a lot of people say that the when they're born in glasgow they're born in a variety of different hospitals i was actually born in black hill in the house in 19 hogging field street on the 10th of november 1963 uh so and there's a few people that had been born under houses and they particular time because the proximity between black killing the the rotten roll which was the the maternity unit so for me to be born in the house and there's about a history of me there and black killing on the address and then growing up through that was uh it's something in which you don't it's mostly we orchards they grow up in an environment where they adapt and uh one of the things i remember very early on was uh when my dad was sent to prison for a bank robbery it became apparent that i was aware that most people one black cow had people family members who were in a nutty prison and yet the total irony is if you know if you never had anybody in your family that never been in prison you were looked upon about suspicion you know so growing up in that environment uh went to uh saint philomena's experienced a couple of years of the building and then went for their decent rocks uh done in royston and basically growing up within that period they came i was aware at a very young age about death my grandad had died and when my my dad was in prison my grandad stayed in proven meal and he was like my second kind of dad sort of thing and i remember just gardening and different things like that and when he passed away he was in hospital for quite a while they passed away the mcginty family as my mum's side so my dad was thomas mcginty and because it's a catholic family it's a big catholic funeral the coffin comes into the house and all the family members go and pay their respects i know a bit more about it now but i never knew then but remember standing in the hallway with the rest of the family and tagan and just kissed the coffin i kissed my granddad on the coffin and my recall as high level i had to get lifted up to gun and chris my granddad and i was horrified because it wasn't him you know i'd rather have remembered my granddad when he was alive i'm sure people who have lost age repo uh seven eight junk because your dad was in a jail when you're grounded i think at such a young age the change came off the energy but you know no i think i think when most people were looking for father figures if that either could be an uncle can a granddad could be an older brother it could be a neighbor you know so it's just something that you you've got that affirmative that kind of a connection that you feel comfortable because it's family but that at a very early age i remember waking up as vividly as we're talking just now thinking nobody loves forever no as a kid nobody lives forever and accepting the fact that one day we all die so very early on i was i was receptive to a lot of things purely because the trigger mechanism was seeing my grandad and the coffin which obviously i can't remember i'm being like that uh was that a sudden death i can't i mean i i know he was in hospital for quite a while i remember going to semen hospital but for my recollection they've been a big cheery man and uh to someday like that character losing their family it was an impact it was uh i i never i don't remember being at the funeral maybe too young to be at the funeral but part of the tradition the that the the whole catholic ceremony uh including the the the the the coffin that was left on the situation the bedroom for all the family members to come pay their respects that's a tradition and if i never seen my grandad in that position i still have fond memories with that but it's again kids exposed to a variety of different elements when they're grown up what they remember what the recall was so that was my first kind of indication on my granddad's god did that was that we did that make you scare the deaf or king that no [ __ ] it it's probably i think you're too young to be friends and appreciate what you've got while you're here but again at a very early age that's what i remember that's the the trigger markers obviously i know you don't have yours in the books you always speak about the the brilliant kind of trigger points in your life where it's fight or flight it's either you sit back and accept it but for yourself you had the clicking point the breaking point you're going i'm not taking this well that that never happened right away no no when you touched on the fight or flight i've done a lot of flight because i never like pain nobody likes pain but when you get to a situation where you've run away that often it's about the time you get caught you need to get back to school you need to go back and face them and what i remember is i got a worse clipping i was slapping about and when i say bullying is brilliant to an extent where it could be threatening could be managed which physical minds was the odd punch kick dead leg and all the rest all the way through it so when i had done the the enough running uh i stood my ground not your fight just stood my ground and and took the villain and i tried to describe it to a lot of people but i held it back for many many years james i never spoke to him about it because we were brought up not to tell tales you know so i told my mom that many lies you can back to a black guy and you close her up i fell downstairs and i fell upstairs and ran into this gate post and i never knew about it i kept it to myself and it was only years later when alex arthur done an interview and they were asking him about his boxing career and what what what was it like to get your first punch in the face uh as a boxer and i'm listening to that of you i love i i like what you've done he's a great a great sportsman but he's very very articulate very good at how he's describing the tactics he box and then great commentator and part of the interview he said that he became punch resistant during the post process here and and and no doubt alex know on his own and that because most boxers become punch resistant i mean you come punch resistant and that on fire at me listen to these interview i thought if you get exposed to too much fear when you're younger you tend to become fear resistant so it helped me explain wasn't it brave i couldn't run away i've done enough flight uh there was no fighting so there's a battleground air chambers where you become fear resistant and pain resistant because these people want to see you crying in front of them i was sure don't get us wrong it was so i would never cry in front of them but maybe i died on the way back home with my mom but that's another matter but the the the element of becoming fear resistant was again very early stages on in your life that i had to be exposed as as a kid for the physical building uh it's installed billion lasts a lifetime you'll never get rid of that stow always there and uh even as today even if i was to leave here and walk somewhere and if i saw one of them if i get the self-control to keep my hands to myself uh are you reformed enough not if not revengeful and people would say well you're still talking about it it must be so versatile it's because your memory ingrained and you're doing this it never goes away so when people say there's therapy there's help there that there are self-help you need help yourself before anybody else can help you of course you could be the nicest man in the world if you see somebody hunting your kids or whatever everybody's got that trigger point where they can just snap probably you could be losing a loved one they could be losing a job people just get sick to being being sick if you're not brilliant billion is not just synonymous to school uh because my dad was in prison i never my brother was in prison so i had no male members of family uh for me to talk to and again being brought up not to tell tales you keep it you suffer but berlin um i'm a big activist for auntie berlin and i hate people who who they bully other people and i remember circulations at school at one time when somebody's going to come and stop us and for me you notice something whether it's in the workplace whether it's on the street uh whether it's male female or whatever the situation is if i recognize it walk away fear i mean you might as well be taking part in that so i did get involved in things that's absolutely nothing i did today and people quite rightly could point out and say well what the [ __ ] is it going to do with you but people always want to point fingers and and they're out but there's a lot longer there's a lot of stuff like i said it's no juice the physical bullying nepal is a lot of mental building with social world stuff well i've done that i've done a kind of study on that i became a micro blogger by accident uh that's me at a decade there's a micro blogger micro blogger somebody who's on social media through i've now got a facebook following well on twitter that happened by accident because somebody was pretending to be me well they they were i and well i i read through the the twitter feed and it was funny but if i let it go and this guy who was pretending to me and they've got an audience they're thinking it's me whatever he says on it people were going to take your words for good they're out and actually it became a danger i mean that's what it became and it resolved us and the only way i could resolve it was getting my birth certificate my passport my driving license uh copying it scanning it sending it to america to show that one of their main uh criteria is don't impersonate empty so they get pulled off and i got a twitter account baxton and i use the other sons and it's been great but there is a billion cyber billion uh and we called it the keyboard gangster yeah and the shipping banks are the biggest chemistry that it's maybe somebody that's connected there's multiple things it could be through jealousy it could be somebody track spike a story a lot of people don't like that in life as well so to try and bring other people down to try and make ourselves i think what i've done for the start yeah was stick to the rules of twitter uh i'm not on facebook people think i'm on facebook that has or paul pharisees on facebook uh they'll definitely know me definitely don't know my son but uh you did get the same position and the reason why i never went on facebook because i know enough about facial recognition every time you're uploading a photograph it's not you've gave that the copyright to facebook and then they can print but they would have got it there use that anywhere i know i was never a big fan of facebook that was more intelligent gallery network for the embryonic stages of facial recognition that was my views on it's probably star wars i think it is and no doubt mark zuckerberg will be if we'll be looking at it and go on the eyes it's a network gallery a lot of the big the big agencies use that in america that's what all started for face recognition as soon as somebody was a photo that gets stored in a database like i say when you use facebook people talk about gambling or drinking facebook will upload stuff on your page gambling drinking they know what you're talking about well it's that was third party they harvest information and they send that out to third parties and you get spurious emails and different things like you think twitter's a different ballgame while they go i started that and it's now go and close on 40 000 followers people say oh you get 40 000 fans i have no goat fans i don't want but i don't mean having any fan base because i've done nothing i have a fan base i might have some interesting parts that people want to follow my life and say well and sometimes with the books when i've done the early parts of the books the compliments i got back and feedback was that the people in my age that had younger kids that weren't maybe going off the rails way back they were throwing the book done and saying if you think that [ __ ] life you're going to lead clamorous you read that so some of the books became anti-crime well no crime aren't they hi to no glorified not even no not glorifying them but if i was to tell a different story about a story i would mm-hmm there was elements in which the people were still alive and well and i can't explain them but there's elements in that it's the same as which is what's your favorite food germs i love it i love my lentil soup to see your ingredients whatever the story is as long as you keep your ingredients to what it is you can call it whatever you can call it plain so you can go whatever dish you want to call it don't mess about the ingredients that's the same way through crime through crime you well are learned for through crime through reg mckay was elements of faction where it protect you're given the flavor and changing the name wherever it is so as long as you're keeping through the flavor and keeping it realistic as it moves on about like i say you're a box office name and even though you you don't want five big boxes i think it's a big box like we we've had i think we counted just over six thousand messages for yourself to come on the show you've got five books now blockbuster fulham for a boyfriend's game to which yeah they know and we'll touch on that near and over then but it's unbelievable and you've got to get yourself enough credit to realize i've came for the [ __ ] life i've came for to which you then knew a businessman doesn't matter about your past it's all about the present and the future there's our starting process the starting process as it will go back to my grandma like experiencing their family then morning do you think you had to grow up a lot faster than your dad yeah you know you accept it and what are remember even you know that middle ground they fight a flight at the middle ground they tolerating the physical abuse and the pain but becoming very angry and very bitter at a very young age you know i'd show you an unknown like why there's something about it one day but i don't know when so that that's that's as i've held up and and that where it came apart and my psychological position as well as uh physical position was i knew i was leaving primary school to go to secondary school and for me i was leaving childhood to get this big world and there was something there that snapped uh and i remember it was fear and people talk about or the frank they're selling frank the other things only people who know real fear fade a childhood or fit something that they can pinpoint and say you don't really experience fear until you experience a near death near death to me was am i going to survive these beatings you don't know you're not a professional medic you're not professionally astute enough to know what injuries you're going to get all you can do is instinctively cover your face cover your things and that's that's basically what it is so these trigger mechanisms that comes on here uh and and going through some of the aspects you learn through the early parts of the the the the death of family the the theory school and uh i kept a pop to it in this skin disorder and because you're a black cow and you go and see a doctor and turn ahead medical practice normally they're associated with scabies and this was something that was identified as psoriasis and it took many many years for me to discover because psoriasis is usually the hereditary it's a genetic deformity to deal with your uh your your blood and basically your eyes it's it's something that happens in a psychological position that releases a toxin into your system and the only way that talks and commit your system is through your skin pores and when that does happen your skin reacts and repairs a hundred times faster than normal so therefore you get dry skin when you get dermatologists treating it that's only that side what they need to treat as the psychological impact and how it happened so what i studied was how did i get this i had 95 body mass at one time uh so when i had rejoined secondary school i missed the first year uh so i was the oldest uh when i was on there and the sporting activities couldn't go swimming because i told lies other perforated the other i'm just doing embarrassment uh i became a goalkeeper because you could wear a tractor which was all right which was all right but as the years went on the other people grew up and they could head the ball even when i'm trying to jump for it so the sporting activities i played for the the schools at rocks the juniors i played for philamenas so basically having an interaction that you've got attracts you don't see it you become part of a team and i love that you know then there was maybe ever wanted to go in goes you know nobody i've volunteered and then as things has gone on it's it's to do with life skills so everything that i've learned as a kid and growing up in the university alive i can talk through the journey that i've learned rather than an academic reading for a book now academics spend a lot of time they go and study sociology criminology or whatever the field is that they want to go and study i'm trying to get them to come on board with other programs that i'm doing on the basis that if you get field experience somebody who's traveled the journey as well as somebody who's selling a brochure for the the holiday or whatever academic study they're doing there's a need for fusion between people who have traveled the journey and people as architects they've been a lonely journey for you as well then paul obviously have people going to work meeting your pals you've missed that first year problem you're hosting only a scare scale to interact with people embarrassed and then obviously with a billiard they don't era that's when everything's kind of blow up when did you was what year was that what age were you when you're done i'm not having that enemy i no i'm sick of being scared i can remember exactly i was probably about in between 15 16 years of age uh we used to go for black culture uh there was a couple of girlfriends all that just like young youngsters meeting on a street corner and then that's when we started uh drinking like iron brew and whiskey and vodka and rinsing things up because if you're walking about the streets cops they stop you you know if you get alcohol they'll take you back and you're getting that i was never a big drinker dude abused solvents uh probably abused some of the alcohol as well but one occasion when we seen one of the older members a black hill coming for a pub in rudra uh i mean a friend of mine stuart i had decided to to walk him home because he was a bit drunk but surely he had that uh plastic bag where [Music] and her intentions were good enough to get him up and walk him over into a black hill but he turned on stewie and started kicking [ __ ] out you know took the alcohol from and at that stage we were carrying knives everybody carried knives you never had an iphone that on you you might as well go up with a pair of shoes on that was part and parcel you got and it was part and parcel if your mate had one you had one everybody had one it's and the thing about it is if you got a knife you're going to use it if you've now got a knife then you kind of use it and that's occasion i did use it and i've done it on the basis that it was a sultan a friend of mine and i've had an offer and that was my first interaction of violence i was never physically well built for square gauge it was a matter of fact square goes queensberry rules was a way back in victorian era it newer days it saw but it was my day at that time no sounding like an old well you old guy but like back in the day that was peter stark you saw to your firsts and all the rest isn't that that's only a fight it's to win the battle what was it feeling for you the first time you did that uh i felt as though i'm gonna do this again did you get buzzed for that no get the budget i got who was going to get it mm-hmm oh no i don't know enough i mentally on missions to get them and it was the same ones it was bullying that's that's how it ended up how many were behind you then i was a big family uh don't really want to dwell on it unless oh you're playing a violin like this i know about a brilliant heart was available it's how you deal with it but my particular thing was it was a big family uh they had older brothers maybe 20 year old on me and then had younger brothers maybe 10 years younger than me so the one at my age [Music] martin will call him uh he was at my age uh i remember i thought i was such a hang as a school fight i was in handbags at dawn or something you know so i must have won because his brother came back and then he took him beat the shirt with me uh while i'm playing mad books and what i remember is anybody who's played marbles who who may not even know how to play marbles you need to get down and play on uh i can an iron gradley holes on it usually a drain in the school so you don't have either on two knees or one knee and all that i can remember as a bad taste because i get somebody ran up and gave me a penalty kick right in the face uh and then i remember lying on on my back and looking up and trying to avoid things people try to stamp your face and get a kick in and that was the worst one i remember uh so on on that bass she said that the pain threshold was dark of course she felt that he might be superhuman don't you feel it but again it's your life why skulls would he take her to would they would they do it again and that that was a catalyst that started that so bringing back to when a friend of mine was assaulted by this elder guy that we would want to escort back to black college to make sure he's alright he's drunk maybe somebody was wanting to rob him or whatever as we were doing the right thing and they turned on us uh for me today something like we defended myself feudal mate said that uh why did you use a knife because i had one i thought if you have a bottle of whisk in your pocket you're going to have my bottle of whiskey if you had a half brick liner you'd have used something to defend yourself and defend your friends and that's how it happened so there was no i'd lost a lot of fear when i did when i eventually got to situation lying in a hospital bed surrounded with uh student nurses and this dermatologist was talking to me because first of all the authority determined how do you get psoriasis how did he get psoriasis so is a kind of an anomaly because it's usually hereditary it's a genetic deformity it comes down but in certain circumstances there's a trigger mechanism that kicks it off so during the process they're lying in this hospital bed and stop health uh with with the students whenever the doctor's asking questions and they're asking questions on the basis are you being violated with your parents i know what he's come and he's going to ask the questions are you getting are you in fear in your own house you know he's technology boxes off and when i told them that my dad wasn't present and during this period and i used to go up and visit my gran and recognize toast and beans for my supper toasting beans for my lunch and toast and beans became where's my dad after a while so we get in a situation where i've told him about the bullying and he stopped and he looked at the rest of the students and that's when i knew at 15 years of age it was the bullying that caused that that made me even more angry because it wasn't just affecting you mentally it was a faint thing exactly i never wore a t-shirt until i was 28. see obviously when you hit the trigger point did it ever go away when you you you never really you had that mentality i'm not taking any other no i think i think what it develops it's character development belgian a situation where generally when i say people think he's devoid his feelings he's a devoid of us i mean devoid of fear because if he exposes on that very early age whatever it is then you're going to be divided later on they're going to be touching on alex arthur about how he becomes punch resustant uh i became fearless as that not through courage through the mountain be just adapting to it so so when you're 15 16 it's bad enough growing up as a young boy finding your way in life but one of my biggest assets was i was always up for anything but and that's what happened so that's seven seven or eight years they've done that as well do you think because you'd suppressed it as well we're not speaking able to speak to anybody that's when it came ahead no i couldn't speak to anybody i better because you know it's hell tails my dad brought me up knocked tell tales if my dad was there i'd be able to talk my dad mm-hmm my brother was i'd be able to talk to him thank you bad different story real life if you opened up it and spoke to somebody uh hindsight's great you know you could revert back on and say well maybe if i knew the lottery was going to be existing i put my numbers on first you know what yeah yeah well you really started off and it's good to look back and say look back to learn uh it's great uh but heinz the loads of things in life change that a lot of people would want to look back on and it's great but when you're faced with the realities uh and you're asked to explain it there only is one story that i can give and if i could give a better story than that but it's great again you can identify it and come on in and speak about it at the time you know the whole the whole world and i think it's quite ironic me here all the sirens normally don't know so it just shows you that the response just happens that i i think character will become immune to a variety of different things and it's when you get a bit old and wiser you can look back and go this is what caused that this is what the remedy is uh are you prepared to put yourself up front for you me personally to explain and become a point of a billion on on the basis that i've been asked that many questions for fathers mothers about maybe their sons or their daughters that have been bullied what do they do at paul and i'd love to tell them what i feel i would like to tell them but again you came back to you're held responsible for your words for what you say so i tell them a story about what happened to me and whether that is relevant in their life maybe somebody's went through their whole life never been bullied and had and got a job it will still happen and they'll still continue it and there's a hatred they are about there's a fairy waking up every morning that you need to go to school i used to pace it every morning going to school and then i studied psychology i won the pavlovian theory with the dog nobel that was me in the school bill explained that paul well my mom uh went to work uh in the morning as a a domestic cleaner in the royal and family and i had to go to school so i used to walk around and my mum would get the bus for problem i'll road to go to school and i would time it with my pace to get to set a traffic lights uh proven mile uh up past problem on royston road waiting for the traffic lights to go can i hear the bell for everybody to line up at school that's my comfort zone after the running away episodes and all that my confidence zone is afghanistan and iq to go into class and then you get lost in education and then there's another bill which is lunch which the fear kicks on and then you're repeating it again coming back to school so there is an effect that happens on i said i'm not sure i get bullied every day but the whole point of it it felt like every day with this bell and it's not showing all then you realize about the pavlova infuriated but how he rung the bell and he treated the dog and they command illusion excuse me conditioning it's conditioned on their brain like i say they break it i believe i always say it takes 21 days to break a habit 21 days to create a new one so if you're doing that for 21 days it just becomes a habit well the thing about the thing about it is if you're putting a time scale on it then you're limiting somebody to something it might take more than twenty yeah but the rule of thumb i i've got a 12 a 12 week basis uh purely the first four weeks is acclimatizing the second fourth week would be to realize what you've done and where you're going and then the last four weeks is about your aims goals and objectives and how you've learned through that so so see billy's i know i think we should touch your name that's a lot of conditioning with them a lot of them are insecure a lot of them are scared but they use that for trade violence to try and deflect that away if they're actually hunting and maybe they're not academically clever enough to bet school so you kind of find your billy's are the ones that are in the foundation classes or lower grade classes and i think i think what you've got as there's not just uh one up on a tree there's a override for apples and the analogy of them used in their james is maybe a billy disney no they're ability maybe they've been accustomed to that way of life or so if somebody knows what they're doing wrong then then they're a bully and going and doing what they're doing it could be available really with social media you know the whole variety of different things but i would like to thank i'm an antidote towards brilliant because i'd love to sat down with billy i recognized billy who maybe wanted to change and don't know how to change uh they might be six feet two or whatever it is they might be driving cars with sirens on it and the badgies think that they're impervious to to certain things i don't know what they're doing but it's the whole episode and people like that when you hear the the sirens going abuser uniform abuse a badge they send me prison officers know them all same with police officers know them all people abuse their position you might have somebody in a working environment that's just been made general manager who used to be on the shop floor who had a hard time so there are there's many branches on the 3d building you know you're a very intelligent man paul you you choose your words carefully and the way you speak you're like about a politician you speak very clear your words are great and even with a billion stuff was there anybody you would would they have against politics would you like to make anybody the thing the thing about politics i've never been one for politics but purely because i was brought up in an environment recognizing years later that my dad was a protestant and my mom was a catholic and glasgow the the i mean people that i used to meet in london uh there was one in particular by guardian friend of mine uh he was worried about are they racist in scotland and glasgow paul and i had to be honest and say them it'd be quite honestly they're too busy being [ __ ] bigots to be racist if you turned up their scarf red white and blue half of the city's going to support you or if you turn up their scarf and the green way and gold the other half are going to adopt you an alien falling at the sky there's a red light there's no matter about your wrist or your colour hdtv your who you identify when glasgow's always been synonymous for that so i might show it ball for 90 minutes that's where it ends the political spectre uh i don't get involved in politics um what you call a political but i study politics i can see maneuvers the people that tracked it would you ever have a debate with anybody was there anybody there was one there was one in particular recently uh but if i start to the first politician that i ever actually helped was tommy sheridan tommy and tommy sheridan went to prison for his beliefs and in faz lane tommy became a political threat to the establishment because he was done tommy's the somebody who our class is a friend tommy's like yeah and another doctor went through he went through and his wife gail went through all that nonsense with newspapers and all the rest purely because they had to demonize him and there is a potential voters that's credible that's what i notice but i'm not involved in politics the other recent one is again maxim billing where paul attacks was there's a political activist for england that came up to trap an snp and a library to ask him to repeat uh something that was said under parliamentary privilege and i could understand that because if somebody's using parliamentary club privilege the exempt of fair libel was and the guy who was up with the yaxley uh had cornered this tony robinson uh he changed his name nobody changed him but he named jackson he called us snp uh politician and it was about a challenge you know and it was like to me reading that it's as though there was an english invasion force up purity attack somebody for scotland on the basis that could either get this mp sm msp to repeat what was said but with parliamentary privilege uh and he was wanting to ask him two questions if that msp was to repeat that that could well be illegal for situations from the i mean if somebody says something about me parliamentary project i can understand that tony robertson's attracted connor the guy and he saying what you said answer these questions uh with that rematch but i'm sure there's plenty of people that they could want to go and challenge in england without coming to scotland but i say that a bit would you ever have a debate with him tommy robinson tommy robinson i'm not apologetic discuss these situations let's say you come up to scotland and understand what he's tried today but again think that's a sense that i'll be about a billion for a guy here i think well i think the the bullying aspect as you've got uh an elected scottish official and a library uh that has now got the freedom of movement and has got a genuine fear uh he'd been accosted for something that's to david paul there's less bullying involved in it and if tommy robinson wants to come up to scotland it'd be a billy uh i might be about an antidote for berlin i'm not going to talk he wants to talk report i'd love to talk to him about politic don't know what his political agenda is i know what the snp stands for the scottish independence they're believing on independence i think i do uh it's one of these situations where to get involved in politics that it would mean going back and a support neither uh a rangers agenda or a celtic agenda i don't think there's many scottish agendas the rangers agenda is to do unionism and loyalism and i can respect and understand that because i've got family in it the same way i can respect other family members who are nationalists and proud irish patriots uh so for me involving politics that you end up falling over family but for sunday the in the california tommy robinson who's actively involved in debates uh why don't you ask him well i'll say him i'll have to let us there we'll tag with politics a lot of people they'll say they're trying to help people but what they see me they will just talk about tommy robinson but other people just seem to argue and fight for me everybody's just divided and if they're divided i think these people are easily control what i've noticed with politics is that they manifest us they tell the general public and potential voters how good they're going to make the lives and they promise everything anything under the sun and this is our politicians there's some good and believe in what they do but a party political agenda is nine times out of turn to get a manifesto put in place and then when they when they convince so many voters nicki minaj power the first thing you want to do is jettison and put the partnership on any promises they've made because they'll know and power and they don't need them and they're on there for an extended period when did you start edging your kitten yourself or when did you start reading and really i think in certain rock secondary school uh i took a notion for for english classes and out of linguistic skills i had to anglify my and moderate my language from english families so they could understand what i'm saying and when you're living in england for quite a while and you get quite a broad accent you kind of slap and when you get back into the schemes and uh and talk to your net you're in people when you're in language you're in dialect sorry but i think if you're then if you want to convey a message i think you're going to be clear concise and give examples on what is it you're trying to say but if if you've got subtitles then that was the irony with the wee man movie wireless patrick berg and irish why was martin compton or the same size issue as me you know where they stop with these things and you get different dialects with different people and i think it's how you convey a message some people read body language some people read their handwriting skills or whatever the rhema is but i think the educational part as firstly i said follow me nuts priming myself for granted secondary school when i ventured and i was never in any trouble all the way through school to about 15 16 and then when you've got prison education and then when you're in a prison environment in england and spend five years in england i know a lot of people spent a lot mail a time in england but i think you go to moderate your language in order to make sure that what you're saying is clear enough for somebody to listen in the event that they don't do exactly what you've said it's not a mandate to tell them something it's just a whole dialogue with somebody's asked you a question you're trying to refine to make it absolutely clear what it is because if they go and [ __ ] up on something then you can say did i make myself clear enough was that a scottish accent will that make myself clear on this point because the name paul ferris you've got the reputation you're very well respected the way you dress you respect yourself the way you speak later says for people have disabilities we've chat a few times and you always respect yourself you come across and very genuine but obviously when you read read the books and obviously it's obviously helped you further in life when you get into business but we'll go straight back to where it all started again when 16 and 17 when that's when you eventually got the vengeance of the the bullies i got the vengeance to the abilities but there's an element before that which uh one of the old well there was older people in uh black hill and surrounding areas and the people who know who i'm talking about without naming names they were prolific carthage and the claim to fame as uh we used to stand at street corner they used to go actively searching for cops to chase them with the blue lights and if somebody came into the scheme we're stolen car where the cops behind them everybody was standing it's like gta there's like some computers i'm getting some computer gaming and what happens is when the older guys are finished with the cars and they'd what they call them they've built they've touched them the younger ones let us uh with uh would have a goat driving and one occasion that's what i've done got arrested for it get took to court i was charged with car theft uh and reg mckay my co-author um literary partner and friend was a senior social worker in black hill at the time and excuse me he done a social inquiry report based on me uh i never get any prison sentence i was admonished for the charleston itself and that was a tasty longer again this was a tasty you meet people one and when you go off the rails again it's just wanting to be belonging to a gang and that's all i was just running about with like-minded people it could have been somewhere else where you're born you're getting you're instead of going and stealing cars you're going to play an instrument or you're learning a trade whatever as there only has one story i can tell and as far as people respect and and all the rest it's only because of the fact that you can't buy that yahoo yeah people there'll be as much people would be testing me and wondering why you're even giving me a platform to discuss anything but these are the very same people who are social hypocrites these are people who are pretending to be powers of society in the community what they've done in the last 30 years i know what i've been doing i know what i am or i'm trying to change and i'm actively getting a matter of fact i got an invite this morning to get involved in our present program that's brilliant uh young girl natalie to go back to go back and revisit some of the things that i've had the journey on one of off the path at the very early stages jim so for 1617 [Music] i got a job uh waver levantas which is a subsidiary of scottish newcastle breweries i was a fanboy some van drivers were good some were bad some were indifferent um and that's the occasion i was getting 180 pounds a week denzel then was a lot of money uh i've paid my mom my dig money i didn't drink didn't smoke so i accumulated maybe two or three hundred pounds over a couple of months period and then one occasion i'm sitting in the bedroom and i hear the car on outside the bedroom window and i looked at it and it was a beautiful bad guy he was a bmw at the time i was a friend of mine johnny and he's motioned for making him done but i'm no longer back for work i'm just getting something to eat told him they came up and i thought he stole the car i was i was going to see him can you pop that away from my mum's mind what did you get that can't tell you about doing this but this time the reason why he was up to see me is because they're looking for a driver and they knew i could drive at that time it was probably one of the best drivers i've been with uploading so he came up and asked me to drive on a mission where so to always ask me to drive this car to stop at a jeweller shop he's going to run and grab some jewelry and you drive away and i thought right well much much to get for that well let me give you something just now he gave me 500 pounds and i thought i don't want that and he said no no you're going to have because i'm giving you think about that and then you backed him and then left i'm sitting in a bedroom thinking and it had that 500 quid because if my mum finds it where did you get that and just so you know my mom was so devout she would never tell a lie from me or anybody else my dad found out that he's on course later on in years so it snows our farm bought out an environment where my mom was going to allow a lot of things a lot of them i could never do any wrong in front of my mum's eye a lot of times we've spoke as well paul you've always respected your mum you've always thought very highly over and i think um that's very important to see an audit you won the raise from um parents who were alcoholics well well the thing about there is james when people look at my background and look at other aspects they turn it so sociologists criminologist and psychologist the whole umbrella want to put you in a box somewhere for their box through an academic thesis on well social environmental conditioning was born in black hill what do you expect i never and i was and never get any trouble she was 2016 so it didn't attack that box so you become a kind of a rogue element of i can a free radical how did this happen in somebody's life that's why i studied psychology that's where i studied sociology and criminology while i was in prison uh but you get certain threats for certain people and every time i used to again and a nutty president was always the same people and that's when i wrote the analogy about the revolving door syndrome people were always on and out they didn't know any better other than the fact that i'd have a legitimate job i could have stopped yet but the temptation i'm looking at that's 500 pound and going still i had a month's wages uh but unbeknown my mom she used to make the sandwiches get my overalls done go to work and i never went to work i was going robbing and driving with these people and it wasn't until the cops arrived at my mum's door one time to say that i'm in custody and she never believed them my sons at work and uh that broke your heart dad that's why i moved away i was playing a lot of heart when you get about all the ring a lot of hashtag in my mom's door and she went through enough with my brother she wouldn't have thrown off my dad you know what you just went about easy life then all of a sudden blue eyed the angels bringing unnecessary uh attention to the house so i was consciously aware that i'm going to have to leave the nest leave your comfort uh no worrying about paying bills because that your mum takes all that walkman the big real life so i went to black county battlefield to my sisters and it was just like one big thing an hour that's what it kicked off with uh where's my room you left 18. uh no 16. still young boys believe in her sinner i had to leave the house because my mom wouldn't trust me to go at the door even if i go at another job and i was saying mom i'm going to walk she'd look at me and go he told me that for months well i think she was really pissed off with the fact she's making sandwiches for me to go with what now isn't it going to work for four months later it doesn't you can be raised as good as you can be and you can have the best parents in the world but it comes at a stage we are going to meet friends and whatever you're going to get caught up with they didn't it's it can be difficult people ask questions excuse me people ask questions purely on the basis that how do you recall this you could recall it for and one of the things that i've got is an uncanny way of remembering things and it's the daily impact and it's hard to remember sometimes as time goes on you forget about it that's how when they use the judicial process that when they take statements or whatever as in the comment on why you made an all comment interviewing you you should have said something at a very early stage so the the fact that trigger mechanisms brings back a recall uh after a period of years you might be about vague about it but you still taste i like the same thing any like i see any trauma at any event you've had bad in the past or even good the brain released a chemical with the trauma you'd felt that day so the brain doesn't know what's real and what's fake so if you think about a trauma back in the past the brain released that chemical emotion you felt that day so that's where a lot of people are stuck in the past as well because i constantly think about the past that i say for you to re-educate yourself and understand the brain a bit what does this re-engineer a circuit switch you can rewire that you can change it and it's i think it's very important for anybody to listen watching you can change your life no matter what it is no matter what you've got as well i think on the basis of your audience uh james people might be certain thinking i can't exchange not me personally their opinion are listening it's today with the avenues to build their confidence up first as i told you about the 12-week thing other people got a 21-day other people just want to go hardcore there's a need for a medicinal purpose people go on they take alcohol people go and take substance one of the things that i focused on was to to to look at substance abuse and use not what substance abuse so that anybody's got an alcohol problem no alcoholics or somebody's got a drug problem there are no junkies or somebody's got a prescription problem the stonewall junkies it's a substance that you don't want to put these people in a box where they're in a box as recognizing they're abusing substance and an odd that they can back for people have been on substances for that long they actually forget who they are right and it's that re-engineering they go back that's what i'm involved in that's what we've been trying to get up and running in scotland a lot of people who over drink or take substance abuse that is to hide for something it's because i'm not happy with finna but i think i think it works short term but when you become too dependent on it that's for the problem there's what a problem and i believe like other than moderation i'm no glorifying it but for me it's trying to be day hangs in life naturally and understand there's going to be speed bumps understand that we're going to lose people understand that bad shots going to happen but it's how we deal with these a lot of people are waiting soft in this generation i think paul our people are just there's so many people i talk to there's got plenty of money and plenty of things that are addicted to it's just one generation james to be fair you can take it away back when people never had nothing there was no substance of your support for alcohol people found comfort and other things probably alcohol gambling as well the gambling thing has they've convinced ourselves most of them convinced themselves only one i don't gamble i understand gammon same as politics sometimes politics is a gamble okay all right but when you understand somebody's put so much effort and commitment either into their own life or their business or or maybe their partner or their family and they find something's not really working and what helps them through that as their substance abuse the alcohol makes them feel better makes them want to go and produce and and do what they've got so it's an aid that's a benefit and how it's come back for that as people lose their that entertainment when people look at reality and for what it is nine times out of ten uh you have people listening to this and know exactly where i'm coming from and i'm not pervious to either i've had debt letters for hmrc creditors phone calls and the house visits and all the rest and it's no nice it's no nice but that's just the way it is uh other people have got other issues how do they get the self attack they'll go and gamble they'll go and gamble on the basis that they're gonna win the lottery they're gonna win the horses they're gonna win the football they're going to win the accumulators and then they get so much money put on a gambling it's a bit like andy who's plays poker will understand somebody who's pot committee on the hand they hang out with a better hand than anybody else and they put that much money on that somebody raises it that dents their confidence that thinks he might have a better hand than me so do you throw your hand down on the base you see look you've maybe put on in the pot or do you call it a razor that's the same as in life it's a gamble as a gamble how long did your dad get paul when they've done the robbery in five years five years and uh i'd write in saying it was the the bank that he stole first up to money for the security guards on berlin or getting paid that week well i never knew that i don't know you've been absolutely correct i was correct i and how i was reminded that was uh in the reception area uh and balani they call it the dog boxes and outside the dock boxes there's a lot of chalkboard your damn goes on it next thing there's you can hear the boat going and the door comes open and prison officer looks right at me and ass are you willing fantasies point i'm thinking uh-huh your [ __ ] dad's door already and i thought exactly then it slams the door and another one because out because you tell your dad if you're any good at prisoners you'll do well in here son so it was not they threatened they thought it funny that uh stuffed i thought it funny after that what happened in their days was when the wages get delivered and the money gets robbed they don't get paid until the money comes and i don't know if it was a friday or a monday but they had to wait for the lady so years later it was still an impact there night to go are you they get you that guy's son that robbed the bank that stole loyal wedgies so that was the clerk of him and it gave us about uh i broke the ice you know i'm in there as a first offender in an adult prison and you've got the prison officers having a laughter joke away and kind of other people going how's your day your life obviously between when you say was 16 to 19 was jill's it was all the jewelleries and all the conjuring but then you became um aware of alpha thompson when he came did he come because i know you've read no no there was a strange element i never knew that the the the family that i was fighting against for the bullying was actually the family who was blamed or was involved and planting the the bomb under his car and what a lot of people don't know james as arthur thompson senior had a driver and that's where the bomb was planted under the passenger seat to kill him and he decided to take his mother-in-law home that night so he's driving i don't know how powerful the bomb was obviously killed his mother-in-law but after they were specifically targeting him do you know how under the driver's seat no there's no under the driver's seat because they know disney drive he had a driver and it was like one of the mafia things the driver never turned up that day so hi hi so when you came under attention it was an accidental thing blank mcdonald's i knew his family for many many years i was brought up his younger brother allen uh ian was slightly older and the first car that i bought were me and alan mcdonald uh blank actually nectar offers and i thought he'll be paying for us he'll be paying for it so he invited me on board to get some money or something i can't remember what it was but he asked me to come and see him and the problem i won uh who people say that tom sanod owned the problem i want another tenant breweries on that was a tenancy involved and he was his brother uh that owned the pub but the arthur thompson had the order where if we were in for a a glass of water somebody would join in the place you know so when i walked in blink was near there but i i remember somebody showing oh we man and it was arthur thompson senior ed junior uh mentioning what i'd done to the relations and get them a drink and i don't drink germs and i never done it for any other reason but obviously they thought that their enemy is my enemy sort of thing and my enemies their enemy and that was put to me that wait you they know that's first son and you can get right through quad then but then well i know it's no uh an audition that you turn up and show them you'll see the cvs on the stream uh i eventually left them spoke to blank he was about bold and wiser at the time anyway i was three years older than you i no he was the first guy to say what the [ __ ] you doing with him what did he need us for you know so he could have came on this engine and we decided no i decided i'm i'm up for this because i know your dad said you know what he did my dad never knew at a very early stage i never talked with a lot of things about when my dad finally knew who was associated he was working for it was quite specific and he said what's to the fact uh what the [ __ ] you then working with him he's a grass police informer keep yourself away from and i knew better and no doubt you have your listeners uh comment on the fact if only we can rewind it back listening with ads they were telling us stuff that were in benefit but we knew better as kids hindsight is great i don't know you mentioned if i listen to my dad probably wouldn't be through half the nonsense how long do we were you watching for because you've got a nickname is it a robot where's that nickname the rover the robot came for people got a misconception that uh my mother and father was incapable he looked after me and i was adopted by the thompson family so math never happened uh i i only knew the thompson's for a matter what 18 months i knew of them they were within a couple hundred yard radius in my parents house and black hill i knew all of them do you get people who write crime stories about this long lost soul that was brought into the fold and there's a photograph for me on the mattel piece and thompson's house that brought me up because i was much better than his son and other box there was no photographer a big poetry is that no disrespecting his own family you know i never knew them well enough but people who don't know us well enough who don't know the streets filler it becomes more economic that than anything else reading about it so i was invited into the fold our hand with my eyes wide open irrespective of what blank said i what my dad said i was a young boy i knew better and again high sight you want to look back on it uh maybe i should know but it was just another chapter in the world yeah when you went because i know you were on the run you would only run and you went to a holiday home because was that athel's house that was his flight and ross and the day you were there did the screws come through the door and police came through there uh a recollection as they never knew my partner at the time anne-marie was there she was six months pregnant uh they never knew there was a female in the house uh although it didn't mean that at the time did i hear it right was you know what that says you'll be bastard you're gonna get it with a gun back in your neck i know the rest and even when i was writing the book there recently changed it all comes flooding back and i found marie wisney there i thank you with a party trigger because it's 92 years later i'm talking to who you would describe as people fighting for a cause who tell me what goes on in belfast that a neighbor either side would hear three shots but they don't know the sequence of the shots so for door gazing and some they get shot twice right away and a third gun gets fired that gets put into their hand then they've executed somebody because they've opened fire at them and just miraculously messy them all you know because nobody's going to villa you know you see it in movies like hard one will and that's how i was shot them so you have something a ballistic they know the forensics they know the trajectory they know what it'd be doing where would somebody be standing so again kill the target then fire the gun did somebody tell them that you were there and i thought you've told them yeah because it wasn't a month later i'm reading the debt we call depositions in england but you call it statements in scotland and the solicitor prepares you for your case and one of the certificates it was on it was a warrant to search the premises at the uh 24 a gale street in rosse on the 4th of december at 1984 and it was either issued on the island that day or the day before i can't remember the specifics but they knew i was there the technology the technical professional shape that they at that time they wouldn't have known where i was and if they did they'd arrested me on a controlled environment at the ferry terminal waiting for anne marie to come off yeah it's true that's true was that when you got your sentence did you get i got five no no no uh what happened was that they originally the original plan was to whack me kill me we're not never happened because anne-marie was there the plan b came up and now they supplied me with brown powder that you couldn't see the color yet because it was on a green plastic bank bag and it was a freudian slipper the fool were a tool i call him george dixon uh the only way that he'd have non-brown powder it was on it because he must have brought it with he can just get a green bandbag and it was shown through a court even a professional toxicologist was asked in the witness box put your finger in the bag what color is your finger light green so you take it further for your audience if you put a white piece of paper on it it's light green if you put a black piece of paper on it it's dark green chocolaty towel like brown powder unless you've read the open which you never or you brought it will which you did so they charged me with possession at the diamond challenge attempted mother that's why i was on the run for an incident a violent incident they charged me with attempted murder possession of drugs there was other charges that i was unbilled for for offensive weapons which were there's levels of courts you know you get a a summary court and then you've got a high court and then uh these things would never went to the high court the maximum sentence would probably look them at six months but what what happened because of that was they collectively put onto the one indictment called a charge sheet and because the gravity of the offence then they'll take you to a higher court and the jury returned uh are not guilty by a majority they could easily have turned are not proven again i was only there myself i can only tell the one story against five armed car five cops three of them were armed uh so they believed that and then i got 18 months for an offensive weapon that would have probably got six months for if it was never at the high court but nonetheless i was happy that uh that i won the case but uh can i disappoint you that the severity mm-hmm either the sentence that there and antibiology do you think they were to get you then think that's because you're making a name for yourself and the reputation was getting bigger uh i i don't i don't really know james it was just one of these things where it was come ahead well they could probably see where somebody's head and i couldn't see what i was getting uh but my view always was that anything that i was doing was on behalf of the thompsons going back to try and collect finances i was up what you call a bag man a debt collector people think well he turned up kick somebody don't no you don't i didn't like but if somebody genuinely couldn't pay i'd go back and tell them but i'd ask them first don't as long as you're sure because i'll take it back and tell them and as i've seen in the movie where uh it was about a faction uh arthur thompson junior never done it when i was there he went back up to say uh it's my daddy all the [ __ ] money no him he's not any right to give you any time today so so we did he did she's grow a close bundle you and alpha because i know you used to respect one the senior arthur thompson senior was always well respected the black girl he carried a bag bag name he was uh if you want to believe the newspapers the the godfather of glasgow his son uh who i believe had set me up north now there's there's people that's been trying to rewrite history and saying how could arthur thomas jr set you up for the be arrested and killed fitted up with drugs and rossi when he was in prison he wasn't in prison this was on 12th of december 1984 when i was arrested arthur thompson jr was arrested february march along with a guy called tom big and another guy jonah mckenzie months later what why did they know to did the junior why did did they take a dislike to he was a jealous no i don't i don't know there was nothing there wasn't any uh visible signs he does like uh what are you back to touch on the robot scenario it's like getting some that a shopping list you know you need this needs done that needs done and to their surprise i'm going back in and then i didn't he drank i didn't eat i did any social what i i didn't go to i didn't socialize uh and i was on the case 24 7 until it was done and then i'd go back and sat down and said that's done unless you've done that's done and they couldn't believe half yeah and that's where you get called the nickname the robot and then they called it in my face but so some people told me behind my back they've just programmed something put it in the back of your head and filed you a lot of robotics all these things so i'm not blaming anybody else other than me you talk about me being intelligent if i was that intelligent i should have watched it for that one james but i never i expected to be welcomed into the fall do you think so much like you see in movies not that life's not like that we're just getting used basically and when did you open your eyes 18 months later when you senior appeared in the witness box as a prosecution witness and pointed to me and said after being asked to kill your son and pointed at me and says well no who [ __ ] done it and that's obviously the respect goes then does that bring back a lot of memories paul it does because any respect i've ever had from uh before that was gone and my dad's words are ringing on my ear even when we speak you know so maybe we should last night with parents a wee bit more we should so for anybody and yet absolutely says we spot on three years i thought everything i'm not saying i'm not saying that my dad said she was right but what he knew about that that that was right what demonstrated in front of me uh as a prosecution but i was bearing the mind uh he didn't need to tell nap to quote he's not compelled it's enough it court matter of fact it it was a i was also charged with an attempted murder you know so he was a current witness about a charge that i was charged with for the motor yes did you get charged with that yes i was yes i was so he's turned up as a crown witness for that and asked other questions what age were you paul when this was all happening 21. king young boy that's what he wanted young bullying yeah secretly i say it go through that and did you see when he stuck tracks that getting at court and pointing fingers did his does respect go for him through the people who were high-profile names black men well what you had was people in the public gallery that saturn had that for themselves uh there's other people that that know about it and that's why i think uh a mcdonald blank the only criticism goku would be in is he might be a lot of things but he's definitely not a cardiologist right i don't think he's got the the professional capacity to determine that arthur thompson senior died a broken heart because his son he died a heart attack through pressure that was done to him you know so the only criticism got way mcdonald does he's no cardiologist on any point putting a violin that he was sad for the death his son if he was sad for the death his son he wouldn't be putting your son in so many positions i've got sons that i wouldn't be putting anywhere near that position so it was an open policy of a crime his father senior knew exactly what junior was then so uh was getting involved the risk factor there the risk factor for that life a crime from the profile europol you can probably maybe count in one horn if you're lucky that people actually live by 40. and that the high profile cases like i said because like your data in the jail for life and there's a very very few this isn't just in glasgow this is the whole of the uk there's very few men guys at your caliber that have actually changed their life i think well i think i think you've got a determined level on the determined levels a lot of people might know know the path arm track is show them a different path i'm sure the younger one's a different path with waving the finger because if we get back to listening but that's again listening with other people you know i'm not an authoritarian figure i'm somebody through the streets that's been educated that if they want illicitly i'm not going to wave the finger at them i'm going to say are you capable within this more importantly do you want to help yourself because if you don't don't waste my time because i'm not going to waste anybody else's time because i think it's important that you've no raise your kids to be in that life or obviously you've changed your life but it's good to pinpoint that you'll not want them to make the same mistakes as you which is very important you've obviously learned the hard way mm-hmm which is a well [ __ ] benefit if you're on that one no but the problem with your goat gym the scottish judiciary the probation service the substance abuse counselors i'm going to be asking very serious questions why is that a methadone problem 30 years later why is that the first multi-millionaire drugs millionaire in glasgow uh houlihan's pharmacy and porsche wireless doll wise bellini present styled a single baggage usually methadone in europe as a controlling influence a lot of uncomfortable questions jim so you talk about anything goes i i would be well up for that as well mm-hmm i think that's very important to to pinpoint that like i say where people die die with pharmaceutical drugs problem in another drug in the world well there's a situation there in which people who've been getting methadone and prison have been recently getting injections no just now maybe talking to two year couple of years ago before they get free they get an injection which is an anti-opioid i don't know the name of the drug it's an anti-opioid which lasts in the system for so long and the reason for that being and how they started that they were releasing people with methadone problems that were going right back with a discharge grant to go either nearest smart dealer and buying the same amount that they bought before they went away and then when they're taking that because the methadone's on the system it's an overdose and overdoses it's the daily asphyxiation it puts them it comatoses them the mixture between methadone and street heroin are heroin and prescription tablets so whatever as the methadone stone is the system injections that were getting because there's too many fatalities young people just committed you don't know whatever they were used to taking and banging up or snorting or whatever as they just fell on a coma the the coroners are fought or the autopsy report which that dictate as an overdose drugs overdose the contributing factor that overdose is methadone because it's still stalling the system they're used to the method on and then what gave the game away when i'm studying the program two or three years down the line the only reason i'm getting over at james is because people came up to prison and and they were saying oh we get this thing now we get a jargon reception before we get left before we get up and i asked well what's that what's the giant i studied that the reason why they got the jag was an anti-opioid so whether they leave prison they can go the same route that other people went go to score about a gear but heroin and after they take it it's not impacting them as much so they're not dropping that flies that the jag that they've had for present will wear off within 48 hours so as long as somebody's no dying within 24 hours of prison then they can push that forward and say i was a heroin overdose when it's that's uh readily available if somebody was wanting to challenge it or they needed to take a strand of hair in my occasion of hurricane the metallic metabolism on your system you can check your blood or check where your hair sample retains quite a lot and i got that through an american study so they could actually pinpoint uh when that substance has been in them uh so the combination it the the clash between the street heroin may not even be strong enough it's enough for them to recognize i'm sure that the academics and the professionals involved knew how many people were dying and why they were dying so why introduce this opiate jig that's a question that i want to ask them are they still doing it and if they're stalled in it is that just to distance the problem rather than treating the issue when they're in there i think it's very difficult because ninety percent of people on the geopolar on some sort of substance well what you had in the very early days was uh is there a lot of people in these no you had a lot of things that the people smoked harsh there was no hard there was hard drugs and very few people took the hard drugs people nowadays when they were going in know that they can't smoke cannabis because your thc level stays in the body fat in your tissue your metabolism for anything up to 28 days whereas if you take taking opiates heroin that you can build your system within 48 hours or maybe even less slightly more or slightly depend on how fast how big you are and what you're doing what you're eating so people thought and i know i feel them they're going to have a weekend uh they don't want to smoke cash on a friday sat at them during the long bang up sunday and then go back to the gym on the monday because they then go to dodger i can a proverbial bullet for the mandatory dog testing teams that they've had that weekend and that weekend they've got 28 days to get that the system whereas if they go on heroin for the friday the saturday and the sunday and try to stop at the monday it's already got a grip with them young offenders i've experimented one of the biggest experiments i've done was the through reading aldous huxley does a perception on the on the mechanisms in the mind and using lsd well he he used field masculine on the basis that was a native american thing to reach a point where he was aware of your subconsciousness you could be aware of your subconsciousness when you're conscious through this psychotherapy that's how you hallucinate because your consciousness is telling you that's what you're saying because there's a thing called ayahuasca and dmt which kind of takes place i think that's south american but that's a ritual that's involved in shamanism but they talk about all that with the mind the subconscious and the conscience and it takes at a higher level there is element said the drug treatment in which they would get the psychoactive drug to let them see in their own mind far greater horrors than what they would see in reality and that's what they gave some of the the combat soldiers in vietnam so that they can see worst damages on the mind and that's what i think that's where a lot of the heroin started was that vietnam was it no no it's not so much the the heroin started in vietnam it was to deal with a culture for the 60s the drug culture for the 60s that there was this leap that somebody smokes cannabis they're going to want hair on uh the whole point about it is if somebody's selling cannabis they're going to be selling heroin and lsd and sleepers and they're poisoned what was your experience on lsd uh i tried to replicate the study i've got a notebook there aldous huxley what he'd done was he injected 100 milligrams of masculine and started writing his thesis about the navajo tribe in america about the young tribal people that were to go and the only thing they could drink was the water for the coyote pure vascular the only thing they could eat was the nettles off and the perch and they went out on their spiritual journey and their spirit world the ones that came back became braves the ones that never came back when they meant to be brave so he was trying to replicate this on a modern day to get up has studied on it so he was right now with the drug he started off preparing his notes and then what he's done injected a hundred milligram up 10 milligrams i can't remember the doses but i injected that i always know any those are injecting uh many people might laugh i took two block two blockers they were nearly the experiment but they were [ __ ] strong and i'll go to the notepad and i'm writing down my notes but remember i'm reading has book and i was a worry trap and i turned around and i looked at the the the wall and it was like cave paintings and and i thought any color of these because i want to study it the next morning standing right so anyway i've got these ink markers yellow i don't know some pens and it's like primitive cave drawings no like we guys running with arrows and egyptian tombs and that no no listening is i copied them and then left it and then when i came over and came to the whole thing about it as if you take loads of sugar but it can have reduced these levels yeah so i've done that and the reason why i've done that is because nassau tonight they opened me up just to give you a cup of tea and uh when they opened this cell door there was that no we got the gbx anthem everybody's playing with music it was like well one of the things that i'm i'm promoting and one of the things i want to do is the people first the my age group uh is very reminiscent of the 60s where you had people who maybe would have been my parents that got a psychoactive uh drug parties for lsd and then we've got the mdma when i first tried it it's something in which that there's a potential to use it for good because i never seen any violence never heard any violence matter of fact one of the things as when i get a three-year sentence for firearms uh on in 1985-86 the the environment then was like dire straits pink floyd [Music] and a few other the bands in that time when i get released i get picked up by a friend of mine in a stolen porsche with this music belt letter and i'm like what the [ __ ] is that bang banging music that's what it's all about oh all right tell it done now he took this to a venue either that night or the next night and somebody had come over and went paul there you go it's for you and i thought there are junkies that are drug addicts i don't take drugs and i never knew the consequences until maybe half an hour an hour later it's actually blank who came over and says here take half talk to the ktj take half of one and then a half of one go around those big mansion houses and to a half of one and then the next thing the feet start to go and then the next thing you're looking for is that other half and before you know it was like uh before i went to prison the environment and nightclubs was uh and i didn't really go too many night clubs but i did just if you didn't drink sort of i don't know how many times you've been in a jew pool uh too many right because you've been in yos as well you've done your fight did you dare five no i've been done i've done the chronology as in 1981 i was sentenced to three months in the shop sharp shock therapy which was called the detention center and glenocal i then got an 18 months uh young offenders uh the sentence let's save me if you're doing boston uh or sorry a 12 month sentence and then the the adult prison i got the first sentence i got was 18 months uh i served at bellani the second adult sentence was three years i spent that in shorts prison and then the accumulated one and uh in london it was uh you surely don't know we had [Laughter] i'm standing behind me i'm starting to panic and i 1997 i was sentenced to i taught with 45 years and i thought 45 45 years [ __ ] that was 10 years ten year ten year i'm sorry fifteen years fifteen year tenure all ranking current all right well i thought i had that one i thought i'm sure he said can come but you you don't get the opportunity to say hold on you're wrong repeat that it's just i've always been dignified and i've never showed you involved in court because we wanted to handcuff them that's what they wanted as well of course so the time i might have done the stairs i knew there was something wrong somewhere and then they took us back up the judge exceeded these powers so i get 10 years 10 years and five years concurrent and then when they wrote the day in england was because it was two different conspiracies uh i had a walk-on conspiracy and they gave numbers a numerical sequence on who the primary one was who just said who's number one number two number three md english system on others and for your listeners who don't know the system number one gets the maximum number two disney get as much as that number three will not get any more than that so because in hours in the the walk one conspiracy uh i was number one uh but was never number one in the totality the big conspiracy so when he exceeded these powers but fifteen years probably giving me fifteen year sentence uh it was never done through an appeal it was an immediate backup uh the prosecution apologized to the the judge henry blaxel uh because he should have gave him an indication of what the and guidelines were and because you know i gave them a sense and guidelines they took for granted that they knew what they were but it exceeded these powers and actually the newspaper article uh ferris thanks thom for 10 years another factor for 10 years i thank them for reducing it for 25. no i don't fit 15. and game mechanic can come you know but someday i'll turn that even the court reporters who were sitting there and done the story take our context no they want to take it because it didn't suit their agenda and then uh you can get further on on that uh you go to the appeal court when everybody two can conspiracies have been dealt with through the judiciary through the due process and the number one who would manufacture the weapons uh go eight years that was your biggest sentence so i've got it again i've one of your biggest cases obviously where arthur thompson jr when you got remanded for that i think it's one of the biggest kid of his biggest scottish cases ever and uh what was the process for you and then your dinner month because it was over 300 witnesses as well the processor the remand was i was familiar with what they call the punishment block people know it is the wendy house because it is like a design there's a not knows a doll's horse but it's just a a sterile area whereas if somebody kicks off they're there for punishment i was a warrior i get took there for reception because in scotland you've now got a category system as such whereas if they believe that you that you've brought the funds or access to individuals to aid and help to escape the security within the prison is their reamer to make sure you don't escape pose a threat to the public or anybody help you so while i was on on remand in the segregation unit i was held in solitary confinement for eight months i was held under conditions that i met no other prisoners i was held under conditions i couldn't even cuddle my own family because it'd be behind a bulletproof screen and the reason why all that's in place is in case even the visitors turn up and hand you a hang on to escape and i kept saying and why would i want to escape that's like an admission a guilt and they laughed they thought the funniest idea but it was already david psychology there was good screws there was bad screws and there was some evil [ __ ] like newspapers i'm putting under your door and talking through the side of the door to tell you tell me how i was going to end up like my two friends who were shot dead in the car that was good uh because i asked him if he was up in the spy hole so i could see who he was he's obviously brave enough to come at the door this is the forerunner of the keyboard gangster so if he never opened the spyho i can't see you as so he can squeak through the door or whatever threats he's going to be there just to try and intimidate you trying to imitate me so for eight months uh the lights on if you can imagine every 15 minutes your spy hole getting lifted up dude it becomes like attacked a technical clock uh so under the air conditions i read a lot i studied a lot he's testifying do who yeah and they in their conditions but as i said there was good ones that intervened but they couldn't be seen maybe i'm not you know because i'm the devil in disguise as far as everybody else's number one target and when the whole the whole charade blows up my face about a confession that i'm supposed to have made to an individual who turns out to be people called this dennis woodman wood dennis wilkinson a super grass he was never a super grass he was a serial purger for your audience the super grass is somebody who has worked in criminal enterprises with two or more people for many but many jobs and they then go and help the authorities and turn on the people who they worked with they become a super grassland when somebody's inventing confessions behold we're at different people they're committing perjury on a frequent basis so therefore they're a serial purger and without hamlet would they be a trial that's why i asked on the steps in the high court and archived footage for a public inquiry and nothing was done so people say to me are you a lucky that trial maybe i was that was because i was astute enough to know the system and it was astute enough to sit there and listen to this star crown what as swell in these two cards dead ashes that what i said to him was true when his kids were alive and well and the prosecution knew exactly that he was a a convicted pervert a sex offender and and i used to look at the prosecution every day and call them perverts until donald finally told me to behave myself so i buried myself because that's his environment james if it doesn't appoint me so i i always wanted there i was wanting to make a point doing something but when you get charged how long was it you get when you get remanded how long how many days after fair charge to the mandate eight months and when you were in there you're two pounds is it bobby glover johanlin and two very good friends of yours well that's when you were in your head must have been scrambled as well it must have been a tough time for your life that was that's why the newspaper would get put under my door that's the whole time they tried to bretky well you're done that gave you the fire to go and fight even further ah no because there was an element before then when i was on the young offenders and long again uh when i was 17. uh an accident happened on the dining hall where a friend of mine was involved in a fight and you're gonna have to get your lunch so you don't know you've got a steel tray james and the bits portions on the tree yeah uh something happened and this guy was going to get anywhere in the exercise yet charle went through the tree and it was like a frisbee it missed everybody in a prison office i like my side that i [ __ ] had and nobody else saw apart from the one behind the where they served the food and they looked right at me and i [ __ ] saw that so i got right kicking i get dragged all the way down here [Music] long against the segregation unit and they put us on an escape protocol which means you've got to give them your closet now at that time i had maybe 80 body mass psoriasis uh you've got to take your clothes off in front and i'm totally embarrassed but they have a year and if you don't take them off they're going to drag them off you so i've took the clothes off they gave me up pajamas to put on a pair of slippers then the door shuts and then it gets opened again for you you you don't see anything that's the prison officers it's it's giving you us and in one occasion there was a scuffle outside the cell with me and a prison officer that resulted and the buttons come off my pajama top and flown back and the cell we're one slot i know i'm laughing but maybe maybe i should be laughing that's funny and i think you've got it laughing but i think if you can imagine that scenario what happens that quick that and it's [ __ ] cold in the places as well uh putting your not putting your foot on the slide you kind of get two feet in the lungs like well so you use not like a skateboard or a surfboard just to stand off the cold floor uh with your shot tied at the the pajama bottom tied and just looking at your environment and going how the [ __ ] did you get here i saw this about one slipper you know and i remember as a kid having a skateboard and again you go in memorize and that's when i tapped on him off my faith the faith that i was brought up to believe in has been a catholic and i've never explained this gems that might say a lot of people be surprised but i'm going to no-hold bars ask for help for my faith and what i believe then i never got it and the only way i can describe the anna madness was watching the the actor that played one of the uh one of the innocents that were convicted in the the pop bombings the bombing of sex wrapping tape on his head and mumbling and all that i could relate to that i never had any tape to wrap around my head and i just remember the the mumble jungle stuff and it go to such a stage where it reduced my body temperature i had to take my pajamas off and line the cold floor just to cool down and asked my faith that i believed then that i used to go with some philomenas and after i god what the [ __ ] all that's up for maybe no swelling uh during this occasion but i asked for something i never got it and i passed it away so people used to ask me what is your religion i was agnostic after that became agnostic after that uh some people say well you shouldn't have got nothing and that's what happens to you and fair enough that's what it's all about but what i'd learned is don't ask for yourself ask for other people and hope to thought that they're asking for you because are we engaged with religion back in balani i was reading books and different things like that when you got you're not going was there a time when did you when did you know you were going to get away with just on the day when they get ready i was reading books while i was on remand in berlin one of the books books was called the holy blood and the holy grail and it was today were a big big question for people who are brought up and catholicism to be a catholic to ask a specific question but a big question and i'm not here to dismiss any religion it's a theory a thesis on the book on the basis that that someday sacrifice themselves to let the main guy go and to ask a catholic who is that on you across it's a big question this is an academic thesis and the reason i got to know about it was because they wouldn't allow us to go to chapel at that stage so the priest how the priest came in was i'm reading the holy blood the holy blood in the holy grail book and part it comes on a john chapter whatever if you're familiar with the bible then you can carry on reading this book was intervening so many times matthew john nurse luke glaston i thought press the buzzer and screw him up and uh says how can i help you paul and i looked him right now and i know what he's thinking i said i'd like to get access to a bible please okay and it's the first time my door was ever shut quietly because they thought obviously i've flapped i've gone you know that all right normally did they bring the bible they brought a priest with a bible to say it was having all right and again laughing i shouldn't laugh with people who know about the stagnation as when that's pretty sorry i'm laughing when that priest saw that book the holy blood the holy blood and holy grail that was like something at the exorcist you know what you're reading that sort of thing but it was an academic study so anyway they went away and i thought [ __ ] was the priest coming to see me then i was able to go back to the book and go and get the bible and go so that's what john's saying about that that's what math you're saying about that so i can educate myself more on where it's coming for the strange thing with the bible i'm sure it was a gideon's bible but there's an almanac in the back that's perpetual so january the first will be go and read this page uh january 2nd we'll read this page the whole line the area is if you're reading something every day on that calendar you've read the bible that year so i look at astrology i look at a wide variety of different things i look at elements and what i've had to sit and listen to somebody's world on the two kids dead ashes uh that what they were saying was true and i couldn't even look at the jury because they don't know the kids are alive and well i don't even know where the kids are lying well you know and i used to think my family back that night james and the first thing i'd done was open the bible to see what it was that day and whatever day has no correspondence i have no time to look at it and it's a special moment last one because on that but it was today be proverbs and it was something if they were don't don't don't feel the serpent where the fought talent bears false witness against you and i dropped the [ __ ] book i got a tingling feeling right through me i couldn't believe it but one thing i did say in myself was i don't want to mention that one day and i'll mention it on the beach wasn't it some divine intervention it was something that helped guide me through a process and when i had done that it was like an honor voice said to me you better come back what's that for i don't remember at all but we don't want 99 faith you viola got all the faith or you're vietnam whether you're working with us and i've done it was so i put my faith back now again that's where i got my uh my my stanford unless it was a dark place here in your life and when you got you're not going hippo how was your life coming right there because you can remember everybody's probably seen the footage just on it the high court shouldn't have been there in the first place and like i say when you when you're not going for that was that were you feared for you were you in danger of your life are we at that stage where you want the kids you've got the public uh perception uh the godfather right truly the godfather has got hat men bodyguards cleaners for about what then freelancers all want to do different things if i didn't know either believe that i used to be part of that system that he had and what the peoples are talking about so i knew the strength and weakness he's not i started doing anything the fact remained about it was asked for public inquiry i'd never fear about my life people said i should have left glasgow but i never i had people the people who were outside that court i'm not walking away for them uh matter of fact i had a i had a situation where uh what came out during the trial was and i didn't want to hurt him these feelings uh i was in a relationship with two different people and i shouldn't have been they couldn't go over illinois another one the mothers of alpha thompson jr bobby and joe your friends and they're still unsolved do you know who'd done them even if i died i wouldn't tell you you know there's a circulation i will there's a lot of people want to speculate what they've done in all there esther and they'll speculate to the tips they're blue in the face how so when you come out then what did you do with your life then when you came out to that trial what was you i went i went for i went i mean the whole point i never knew it was going to be that day changed i never organized transport there's no if you know you're getting released uh then you can arrange for something coming pick you up i'll do it then i don't know if the jury is going to believe this guy purely on the basis that the judge large mccluskey and his submission to the jury did say you know did say to them ladies and gentlemen with the jury what you've got remember even the worst of liars may tell the truth one time and i thought he just [ __ ] i thought they would believe them would but but do you know something ever since i dropped out burke i had 100 faith and i and i had that faith all the way through it until i walked out that door to an extent that uh probably the last day in the the trial i left a note on my prison desk with chocolates and different things like that excuse me and i put one up if you find that letter because i know underneath prisoners because it's prison also if you find that's not then i won't be back i'll wake the bahamas somewhere have your tea have your coffees have whatever's on here and go and do what you wanted to and then i'm going back to court and on the way to court it's maybe two weeks before three weeks before it that that's the helicopter they're looking for a hannibal actor in this [ __ ] van uh the public screen they never stop for a good excuse for driving through a red light they never stopped but what i remember is the familiarity with police officers court staff and as i said before there's good and bad in every department in every walk of life but that's a usual uh police officer in the back of the van the court escort the kitchen the van and then take shot and done had said to me at one occasion do you think your trial will last until the end of june paul and i laughed i went [ __ ] up now i says uh i'm out here on the 12th and i'm away i'm out here on the 12th at half past three and i'll be in the bahamas by monday morning and he laughed and i like it's all a joke while we're sitting there they could have returned a verdict on a thursday after throw away comment on the friday they turned they'd return their verdict at half past three and be quarter to four the reason they're not alright i know it's quality for i'm walking down the stairs and there's a clock and i see this guy president of a police officer does duty take me back to either start a sentence or to wait for the jury to come back again and i put my hand out and i went i've done it last james i said i need to apologize to you [ __ ] i said it was 15 minutes sir that's really enough right always it'll just blackstone but i kept my faith all through there and i did promise to myself i'll go to chapel when i can uh i'm not a largest zealot i'm somebody who's engaged the way back back and i talked today with catholicism you know i don't put myself on a box um i'm somebody who would never criticize a legend if somebody believes in their religion and it's helping them i can only give my experiences but i know i've let the bag man up still done for a while because i ended up back in belmont see when you you came out again paul because you've let us say reg mckay you've had four books for education you've just released your fifth book which we'll touch on uh we'll touch on i know that regimekai was actually a social worker which i think a lot of people don't know um when we gave you the idea to write your first book in the the conspiracy uh that came through the total accident i've been reading that much nonsense on the newspapers uh and there was a provision you were able to get the dates no doubt your listeners would know the dates where legislation was passed that would allow you access to freedom of information i think it's a year two thousand i'm not too sure but a lot of people uh in prison were asking they get access to the prison files to see what's going what probation i've got for them what security or whatever as you never get the full thing but if somebody's looking to get parole which i was there's a lot of questions on the reason why i was asking for it james was because i knew i was going to get that if i said i don't want parole and it gives them a sufficient reasoning so i've done done my parole i've done my parole requests done all the courses and then get access to your your present file non-sensitive material everybody who will remember the old glasgow herald being a broadsheet and when they bring abroad she used to think when you bought that you were kind of well-read because it wasn't a tabloid food you need to head back alarms to territory you know the wee man reading the big paper sort of thing and during the course of the 1992 trial the chief chorus crimes correspondent and the herald was called carol gordon and i think it was because of the fact that they could get a lot of content material one whereas it the other tabloids are dealing with the sun if it was good for the defense you get a sidebar it's good for prosecution front page or whatever as the hero was just consistent maybe cause you the size and content uh which drove me to write a letter to say i think it was a fair and honest balanced view from prison that i'm reading that other people are reading about the about the trial because of my worry my mom her attitude is that if it's in the newspaper sonic must be true so my mom didn't read the herald to read something else it becomes significant because how can you reduce a broad sheet and an a4 size paper i've got connections enough being involved in business to shrink it with an industrial printer so sunday's had an industrial printer got those copied and put it onto my file regarding aspurious the bogus counter crown office letter that said that i'd been working with the crown authorities for many years and with the the latter was used in 1992 the the real reason for the letter it was to prevent people from going as a defense witness for me whoever signed that we got them at court to say that is that your signature matter of fact it was a night guy called alfred vaner whose alleged signature was supposed to honour and because he was such a high-ranking senior crown office official the defense won they'll call them the prosecution had to call him because it's the crown he explained under oath the letter's bogus it's not even his signature so it was dismissed carol gordon had wrote that in his own newspaper but yeah i'm reading the same newspaper with a different crime correspondent called james freeman who said the words that he has seen proof positive of my enforcement status and mentioned this letter that it's in my file and it's already been on my file for two years [ __ ] knowledge who's saying that should i decide that i'm taking him to court uh and the reason why i was taking up the court and people understand that you've either got a character defending law and such you've known anybody with criminal convictions hasn't got a leg to stand on anybody that's in prison away criminal conviction whatever already our bad character what we were going for was a malicious falsehood on the basis that he knew what he was writing for he was writing for members a staff client please hope the agenda that i'll get killed in prison or assaulted or stabbed or whatever that's that whole agenda it's a dangerous agenda and it had to be addressed and the best way to address it was it cost me 1500 pounds for a accuses assessment on the malicious falsehood and the malicious falsehood would have stacked up because even in the own herald archives as carol gordon's letter that was used as a defense production i brought it to court to show you the journey no physically so i'll brought it through to the attention it was solicitors who checked or who that then became a defense production which to demonstrate to the jury that if people will want to go in this extent to prevent people who come and give an evidence for me what else have they done and what mechanisms are in place to protect my defense witnesses because i've always learned to protect the kind what i you know so during that transitional period this is what i'm fighting i find a legal battle and i came back for the gym one day and there's a bundle of letters but one in particular hand written on that on the front envelope i opened it up and i busted it laughing so i can raise my car uh i've never seen rich since i was 16 that that interview and longer again and read the reason why i contacted maybe because he was wanting to write a book about black hill about his story he'd been senior social worker uh the fatalities that happened in black hillman they had industrial alcohol and putin and i think there was a few fatalities and a few people were seriously i went blindly and i thought you might be [ __ ] right about you want to know who the grasses are i'm your man and i saw i sent a short letter i went up and it came back he would love to there but i i couldn't get him cleared to come and visit me for my security clearance so i wrote the fairest conspiracy we read with actually we've done it over the phone we've done it covertly through read sending letters to other people i get banned free speaking to edge by the security otherwise they're going to cut off on my communication and luckily enough reggie's wife it's called jerry shot for geraldine so i used to phone up and soon as read would answer i'd say is that you jerry i pass us onto you this boy is looking for the 20 quid to get sent on him for his canteen that's my code i'm sending this documentation on it's not even on my wing so when i go to the gymnasium i don't need any weights i've done the circuit training exercise bike road machine soft tennis badminton all the rest that but the whole purpose of going to the gym in order to keep fat as well but was to collect my documentation from to somebody else in another part of the prison that's how we wrote the first book how long did it take you today been through that nearly a year nearly a year but you've done it nearly well for two thousand i was published in two thirds i broke up your time in any jail dad give me something dad but what reggie said was uh i ended up filling so many notepads up from and just sending it direct to jerry and one of the things he was specific about he said paul you need to lose the venom you're coming two venomous and you're very pictorial and you're writing which is true because it's a memory recall you're writing about whereas writers write about writing so when you're writing you're a bit angry and i saw so what you've done as an exercise was maybe that much paperwork that i've wrote and i get that much backhand typed up and you know what it's a lot better uh you'll notice this yourself being long windy they've been called long winded but as long as you get with the yellow glass i think it's important even if people think you're long-winded enough it's important enough to clarify the position in the event that you've said enough about an issue that people have got either the flavor of what you're talking about or want to hear more yeah obviously you wrote four books with edge you've got your fifth book it's just been released which is absolutely brilliant by the way how are you feeling writing that with foot ridge because red passed away god dressed them but was there a were you struggling with no no but they read the book as people foreign that's my book it's not my book i was involved in a partnership with steve wraith and stuart whitman it was a team effort i worked under their roles about how they're doing it it's part of a team and and we've done it they've done a fantastic job the focus on it was the reamer i'll bring what reg had said keep your powder dry for the audio tapes and all the other stuff that we had put by uh because the when reg was diagnosed having cancer i never realized how severe it was so when i was sitting in a familiar environment just like a lounge like us and reggie's own home uh well we're familiar writing all the books and i know there's no going to be another book it's an uncomfortable conversation it's about like going to visit someday in prison and you don't talk about you go what are you going through you're going to the pub you're going for a night out it's a charismatic conversation people who are listening will know us people that have got they don't know the time scale a week to laugh two weeks still i don't know i knew there was never going to be any book but reggie's he's getting a glass of wine and he's cigarette and we're calling the book gangster chronicles unfunnies business and then we get to chapter headings that's how we'd formatty delaware so we get to this but we're going to use the powder sun we've got rick paul we're using this powder we'll be keeping dry okay where's the chat tell that thing's gone he stood up put his glass in my butt call up [ __ ] it you can't think that's what you kind of call it there's never gonna be anything collect the glass tasty [ __ ] it right then i sat down and spoke about that was about done when you came up next and within that period that he died so when i was asked about the obvious absence of right now any other books uh was with respect to reg my partner that i wouldn't write another book it was steve rather asked me a question so when i told steve the only way i would be another book is a tribute to edge we have done a fantastic tribute it will be there enshrined forever uh purely because red should have been recognized as a as an author in his own right and his own work when he was alive uh as much as i've got grief for the daily record than the sun the male uh they had the decency to give him an award that was his pride of joy best selling books hey that's right uh do you think reggie's played a big part in your life paul to change your way of thinking and change it too i know it was then they've done it they've done it brilliantly when were a certain and when i reg and i had used to have really in-depth conversations i know he said to me i'm still your social worker i'm treating you as a social worker analyzed me using all his skills to see if that's his job and the things i'm telling he couldn't believe that were true send him a lawyer my lawyer peter forbes at the time uh who was a court appointed solicitor when i was see where i went right during the a lengthy conversation with my solicitor he said at one point paul will you in your cases sometimes facts are far greater they believed in fiction uh so reg came to the same thing going for some man and i know he was analyzing what i'm saying him but i became aware that i'm helping myself while i'm writing people call it cathartic people call it beneficial for you fairly for you but reg came away and i mentioned a few other things about what should be happening like fate karma what's for you all the cliches and it's called serendipity paul and i thought wow good words what the [ __ ] up so glad to see red for the benefit do you expect me to maybe go and visit some people one black cow or this games in the bypass i said paul i've not seen you forever such serendipity of soybean to you today lost applause i said i will mention that and i will describe what it means according to how our interpreter it's finding something that you'll never mind you find that turns your beneficiary that's what serendipity is great and and that's something that will be a tribute to red show uh to me i always had reggie's and a voice sent to me keep it real tell it how it has produced the documentation knows the time for you maybe shut the [ __ ] up and let them read so i might be curious of a lot of things but i'm not a ventriloquist i always knew on the audio tips seven police officers were on audio tips the transcripts are there the tips are available crown office i've got coffees so as far as legal possession is concerned the fact that i was trying to take them a court in the first place and the daily record and the sunday mail and a few other ones i decided hopefully the book will be such uh the fairest conspiracy that i will be legally sound because it's gonna open i can't up not my kind of once so if they want to take me a quote for the first conspiracy great because i would take it that i would be defending myself same with this one it's no repetition any other books the new materials and it's never been published it's the daily secret audio chat and for anybody who has no read the book uh i won't spoil it for them but they don't all dining how can people get how can people buy your book they can invite paul uh they can buy it through amazon uh it became a number one bestseller on the first week of the new year amazing congratulations but it's a it's a team effort i take part in the credit rage would be giving us a salute we will try to get it at christmas number one but what steve wraith and stu whitman say this we've got a long year ahead for we'd rather have a number one last year than say all the book was number one last year even though it's only a couple of weeks apart do you still get any did you get any hassle for the polish still paul do they no i think what's happened is that uh most of your body cams on or they should weld body cams because we save any allegations i think the younger generation that are joining the police are joining for the right reasons there's still a lot of old dinosaurs on now that are threatening people who used to be uh police officers to keep their mouth shut and how they keep their mouth shut as if you open your mouth you're going to lose your pension i'm sure there's a lot of them want to come out and talk about it but you get the odd crackpot like uh pitbull gallacher or one promote his book and if he's going into their book they're real one don't get caught up telling lies about how important he was that he was the first guy on the scene it was a crime scene it was taped off before he even got anywhere else and all the other things about off on bobby glover joe handling a square goal uh i don't know for a bit but i don't comparing joe hanlon but joe hanlon would have flung him about like a wet capacity and they know what that hasn't governed no i would have to show them they fighting for never mind two of them so it's all right i'm saying that i haven't done it make with my friends or that but what he makes a mistake at the end of what a lot of other people make mistakes i'm alive and i don't know have anything bad say about them still wishes or autism and how did the film come about to me a blockbuster following a boy for [ __ ] black cow to bring best-selling books to them be making a blockbuster film how did that go about and how they did how do you feel within all that do you know that your dentists even are actually living these things and you're actually doing them yourself do you realize how well you've done through your life however you've been involved into what you're doing now is a good achievement it's another journey and we go back to that world serendipity that services in london along with my co-accused arthur city uh arthur certainly read the book and gave it to his neighbor called joey pyle anybody in england who knows who joey powell was joey thought it was such a great book that it should be a movie he then contacted his media contact guy called wolf pine uh anybody for the benefit of didn't know who wolf painters wolf pine was one of the first guys to meet the mafia in america wolf was a recording music guru he was aussie was born to a manager in recording studios and access so it's his department uh and then i get contacted separately to to look at the situation after it happened with bobby kelly i had to contact ray burbus who was uh non-exiled in in france but he he was a producer a love one on a bay and he had a few other things under his belt and it was through a friendly friend in islington that went a different university that i went to and we went to a different university and became an actor director so with mutual friends in that area so we cannot go hold our director uh what we're needing was a producer and a film company to take it on that's where wolf pine came out yet he got cannabi international involved in it and i met mike lovette who owned carnival international absolute really really nice they call him diamond geezers really nice guy uh very well educated and i never knew he was the ex-military you know so he's very disciplined to make love day but all that happened again through accident through freight karma serendipity when it came to the the movie and in itself and the movie in itself as there has elements of faction in it but you're right james you've got to take a step back and say this is all part a learning curve because it stems for a situation in which i was took for balani prison one time in the 1980s 1985 to the sheriff caught to be granted high court bill and i met with my solicitor which is normal he's going to say paul congratulations you get bill you've got to get out and he was stunned when i told him i don't want bill i just wanted you back because the reason for giving you bill is because the clock stops turning on your remand i wanted to go back and not only that i had the fear that they will do what they're going to do what they've done in roster try and kill you i've already got the audio tapes that correspond and the threat says if you hear another police officer talking to one of your friends that says remember russell uh it's a big outfit the pause if you want to take it on son and uh don't be threatened paulus because you're we pal paul tried at once and rossi with george dixon and i can tell you here now if you're serious about making any threats to any police officer you're going a night fashion trip and no coming back either because we paul was very nearly away from walking the campuses on record i've never said that as i said he before i can be accused a lot of things i know vetrilloquist they've said that that's for sending the new book that's with the powder getting kept dry about that's the public inquiry i've been asking for and it's only a matter of time before the bubble burst somewhere for somebody to turn around and say was he right all along or was he telling lies all along i'm the anti-politics because this is a political end game this is normally i see today with the judiciary in scotland this year today with the judiciary in the uk when they brought up that rent a witness that the percher no ceremonies serial purger who they knew his background they knew he was a pervert they knew he was a rapist they knew he told lies and previous high court cases and i'm reading about casey where he's and then swore people's ashes swore people's lives of it and i got a rerun i'm sitting in a dock at high court i'm rerunning somebody's life unfortunately vague at 15 years the guy spent the first five year in solitary confinement lost his his dad lost members his family couldn't get out [ __ ] his head up no and his name's danny vaughan they came for liverpool he was part of the trans gang robbery crew admittedly he's no one angel he never [ __ ] confessed to nothing but this guy had to suffer all that so when you came back through and looking at books and movies and the thing that regarding what my said is when i told them i didn't want anybody i felt comfortable and safe and president james to be honest with you because for the cops they come in they need to break in and do all that i feel about safer i just want to get it all done me my hearing aid whispers they are second composer uh there is there is there is any uh elaborate the the thing about it there is there's two options too one that involves a plan b and the plan b as martin corps has got a drop normally he's bad but maybe a zero there's talk about young daniel care uh maybe taking over for another part yeah uh martin compton is he's he stalked his went through the roof uh i don't even know if he would want it there and it'd be quite honest with you james i don't think any production company could afford them at that stage he's getting bigger aren't there so i think the way it's heading just now is we're going to look at a docudrama where like you and i are having a chat it'll fade in a reenactment and we take it further because there's a different market for generating multi-million pounds well no more it was 4.3 million pound for the last budget uh what you've got now as we amazon netflix i mean that now i've been uh recognized for the first time for so many awards for their publication for their productions for the for their oscars so the way ahead is do people want to go to the cinema some of them do but if you want to start back bearing in mind when people invest in this industry for an industry and either they want to protect their assets they want to protect what you're doing your podcast is your asset you want a ring fence your intellectual property the same way that when people do movies we were working on the basis that when the wee man gets released in dvd the bars will be selling a copy within 24 hours 24 minutes so you go through music and this way people have done that looking to get an income for the music industry my mind has never been able a financial reward because i know that much rewards on it to be fair i've done it on the basis that my solicitor is at the sheriff court but you need to take bail paul because they'll just throw you he's saying if you think that the cops are going to kill you and you get any rematch we know about the tapes if they're going to do it there's nothing i can do and there's nothing you can do other than the fact that you better go and make sure that you make yourself so much in the public eye that will make it harder for them there and the first place i went uh when i get released was up to bellani collector all my belongings i went right down to the sun scotty sun uh news offices and met uh derek stuart brown and a guy called stephen walker and that's what i learned about sub judas the kidney print man because i thought we go but at least somebody had the decency listen but today we're at an oppo you'll be mum must have been proud to see my mum i i don't know i think i think we're mums they're always proud of you anyway whatever then my mom didn't like the books she didn't like the movies uh she was just a very quiet person and wanted to go on with things so she never read any of the books and she never saw them ever but to change your life i obviously watched the movie all the stuff that's on it the shootings the stabbins the corruption i know can i stop you though we'll share that after the the the the the first release in london i had to go back meet investors and the first five investors two old ladies of the first one you've mentioned the the gunfire the bullets the bodies and their first question i mean was how what happened to your dog son and i told them any story about the dog and then somebody else said the first five people first repeat oh i had to kind of look here at ray burton and ask can i have a water what's wrong do you [ __ ] get me out of here who are these bullets flying about at night she's the first five people ask me about a dog next time it tells me somebody asked me about the dog gonna tell them how it died and that's the way it was but there was critics whitney shot in glasgow because the irony would be the powder is dry has been there they know i've got the audio tapes they would fuel uh fencing off a road for a production company they made a movie on something that they thought the audio tapes was going to be in the movie they panicked too much they blamed the glasgow farm council glasgow farm council blamed them could you use the audios huh i'm doing it next one i want that i want to pause and and i'll be filming in glasgow the next one and i hope to be co-directing it mm-hmm because what's your story no it's just something and what's the those elements uh within the wee man is a collection and a collaboration a the fairest conspiracy vendetta and villains that's under contractual stuff with cannabis which is fresh and encumbered for a visual project as unfunny's business the putting the conspiracy at rest so at dovetail the reason for this first book was to get all this up to look at the what was in my public uh what was in my prison file uh for me to write about do you want anyone where you want you know what's going on let me tell you what's going on all right losing the venom keeping the flavor yeah keeping the powder dry we would have got one to use the audio tapes uh about unfortunately uh again fate played its hand and wedge is no longer here see if uh i know this is an important date for you as well probably just before we finish up the january um yeah how was this important date for you well the 21st of january uh 2002 was when i was released for custody after spending the sentence in england uh for the finance challenges now people ask well why did you all get a transfer back to scotland and the people uh who are listening to this will know about the scottie system and there's no cooking facilities donate cookers you can't get up them all and go and make a breakfast if you get five different kinds of pot noodle and you're doing well and the microwave if you get access to it we were having meals that chinese prisoners were making for themselves asian people were making for themselves and the only thing that was missing for me during this period in time would have been are we about a haggis so i guess 17 years free uh reggie always said maybe five years and see what happens for seven years you'd say but time gave getting the guy back i don't need md to give me a break because it's to do with your words and your deeds people talk about rehabilitation doesn't happen in prison you might get the the spark for that to ignite and it does ignite that it's what you're doing when you go actually speak louder than words as well you're acting on it like i say five books paul blockbuster fulham you'll know dane things you want to do things for the prison you're now talking about the the medication stuff the pharmaceutical drugs method you want to give back to the people which i believe is amazing i think i think more people need to be educated on the reality where we are uh i only know about i'm not an expert it's an info it's a an informed opinion because i've traveled the path but there will be a few people and positions of power and employment but we'll have to justify their position the previous uh predecessor position as well as justifying budgets just taxpayers i'm a taxpayer i've been paying fortunes in tax there's tax on tax there's too much taxpayers money getting wasted and it's the same taxpayers that vote it's the same people who vote we get these people won and it's the same people who need to even listen or read and say is that guy right what if he has water from know that if i'm not right then let it continue but your prime example paul that people can change no matter what it is no matter what you've been through you can change for any listeners and people watching what would you give for anybody that's want to get involved in a life i crime and thinkers great life what's your couple of followers they think that's what i want today well i'm not going to certainly i have a client say it wasn't worth it i'm not going to sit and be a hypocrite and say don't dare i'm not going to be a hypocrite and say they were adam it's good if you're involved in crime you're thinking you get involved in the crime it's good it's really good until the lights go and then you stumble about an adult room trying to find a light switch and then you find the what prisons over you find out what the heartache has when you're sitting at a table and your family woke up set up and walk out the place you try and explain that to these people and it's all about rush tech if people want to take risks they know the risks they're going to take i'm not going to certainly have a crap james say it wasn't worth it it was then it's not worth it in the long run to me but i'm not going to say if you people might need to go and put food on the table they take the chance in dinner the rewards for what they're going to be doing uh hopefully they think it's a reward enough but there's there's murky life then going through something like somebody that's been brought up in a middle class background with wealthy parents they don't necessarily crime they they white collar stuff it's no crime you get people for my grassroots for the streets that's growing up that 30 days something like uh you'll but you've been present in two minutes so as crime worth it in the end only if you're a politician because that's where all the real gangsters are and they can get away with with badgies and people that will just dismiss certain they'll sweep stuff under the carpet the carpet that i've got looks like one of them saudi arabian double humped camel it's going to be so obvious one day that they need to address the issue they all wanted to avoid it and die for cover so when we get to that issue as crime worth it uh at much day because they've went through all their butt and still getting their pensions because steve crime wasn't they worth it the ones who are still getting their pensions shouldn't be getting them so it's a double wedge sub i'm not going to be happy i'll try and answer it as best as i can and hopefully the younger guys looking up to people like me don't waste your years in school i call it 13 years i want to go to university and i spent university but there's no university my choice they've got the choice to hope they take it without the finger waving exercise so uh that that would be my advice james brought on paul listen you've been an absolute phenomenal guest and thank you for you to take the time out here and tell your story because i know digging up the past and talk about that it's not easy for people but we should also make a point that you have done well for your life you've wrote the books you're making your film and you're also whispers you're making a second following much paul's actually going to be part so thanks probably yeah but let's see are going to be loving you coming on a date and telling your story and i appreciate it thanks very much for your time thank you pleasure absolute pleasure thanks again and for anybody get paul's books amazon check them out amazing so thank you pauline and module rising horizon thank you all right pleasure thanks

Channel: Anything Goes With James English

Views: 1,452,377

Keywords: Crime, Underworld, Gangster, Prison, Gangland, Poverty, Truth, Untold

Id: jVF166KXS7c

Length: 154min 39sec (9279 seconds)

Published: Sun Feb 10 2019