Crime Boss Paul Ferris - part 2

you can now follow me and all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live well i was right to court and then came back up and went and got the 12 months young offenders institution and next door to the detention center england oracle and that should have met a whole load of crazy one particulate stanza was james and neil uh nearly uh his fault it was nearly the bomb he was always making unprovided explosive devices with matches and gas canisters and my job was then to phone the newspapers to tell them the demands john went in the community phone the newspapers and uh heard the screaming up and jock donaldson standing at the top of the stairs with a blade that screw his neck he said i used a sore spot i'll put black tape on it held upside down like a grenade i don't know if it's a one-off but i don't know many airplanes or anybody that's put black tape runner so yeah actually and he pulled me aside and gave me something to back on said you have to go on the exercise y'all tomorrow yeah to see who uh the ira and then charlie bronson's mind that's because he's hijacked an airplane it would then follow that you can fly on a helicopter disney world two different separate things so he told him if he didn't get the cheeseburgers he's going to start eating the hostages mad and a lot of people turn running and think oh it's the glamorous life is that you you certain it doesn't matter what prison you're on are you getting a visa do your money your family walk up step out for that table at the end of the visit walk away you everybody's wanted back mr paul ferris thanks james how are you i'm fighting yourself really good mate really good cat and gaff like nice nice country feeling yeah i love that our last podcast is nearly a million views two scheme boys talking it's mega everybody's wanted you back i think a lot of people understand your background you've wrote countless books gotta follow them out there about you you've been oh you've been bullied you got revenge involved in one of the biggest unsolved murders in scottish history but now here yeah again part two we don't with no spoke how we're going to take that conversation either but we're just going to take it on our journey but i'd like to touch on what the prisons you've been in around 10 different prisons no doubt you've met a lot of fascinating characters i just thought you spent over 15 years in a jail so i want to go right back to the first year you were in and why uh first one was bellini as a young offender uh one of these situations in black hill the older boys was nick and the cars uh taking a chase and then abandoned them so we get settings on the car and this occasion i even go to drive i couldn't even drive i just have to jump in the driver's seat corps cell nicked so i get charged for car theft and i'm gonna explain to the solicitor who was a court appointed celeste at the time uh peter forbes uh he asked me the whole story of her and when i've told them that i never stole the car told them the circumstances he said oh you pleaded not guilty to this and as i've done that i get remanded uh took to berlin went into d hall talk flat where they kept the young offenders and i remember looking out the window because you had to go and stand on the or someday to help you and i could see parts of black hill and i was devastated thinking how did i end up in here i was in there for two or three days until they move you they come down in collection and take you along again but during the process being on remand and young offenders at that stage there was somebody else on a young offender that was going to trial i think it was to do a death he was up for killing his boyfriend the girlfriend's boyfriend that two of them were seeing each other i never knew the circumstance he just suddenly came to the door the prison door and asked for some tobacco but it was it was no a polite request it was like you could to work around there so i him off anyway uh i done afraid with ken and a billion in that stage so no it's no happening in prison so the guy who was on me he came for black hill as well and he said watch him he's liable to come in in the morning have this i got a tooth toothbrush with a couple of razor blades melted don't you and i had to under my pillow and my bunk and sure enough next morning this guy came on and at tons he was a amateur boxer how much it works and i'm laughing because i get three rappers and then i'm ending up the bottom bunk and uh just remember i've got this which was an equaliser and so he get badly cut and flung out the dawn the alarm went off because i never knew he was at trial so he went to trial with quite a lot of damage on him and everybody else could move too long again then i get kept her for the investigation and they thought i was involved in a love triangle i never knew the guy never knew what he was up for so when i ended up going longer again which is the second one uh they came down on the bus to pick you up for balani and i knew something was wrong i never been in longer again before but i get put right into a place called the dog leg and they call it a dog leg because it's that's the handmade type thing it's all ex-military screws that run it so a very early age i get put on the dog leg as a potential troublemaker and then for the dog i used to get done at a dining hall um get your food and that's where i met paul hanlon for the first time joe hanlon's brother and there was just a revenge thing going on with some other prisoners that were in there and it all kicked off and i'm standing in a steel tray and uh somebody's had a goat bag fall so i threw the steel tray hit this guy and it drifted off like a boomerang hot screw right there and i behind the silvery they looked at me and said you seen that and uh i've had a few kickings in my time but this was just something special age where you pull what that uh 17 16 17 did that make you hate their 40s no i just i just saw i shouldn't have thrown through the tree but what it happened was when it kicks off like all the screws went on because of the right build is off so you've got a screw holding one arm another screw holding another arm and then you're elevated ones get your leg that other one's got your leg and i remember hearing something and then a mass of pain couldn't you see nothing you saw you're floating in there your face is done in about three feet off the ground and i saw this crew run right up behind me and kicked me right in the box a lot of penalty kick and i remember something getting off in my head with that pain i can't remember too much after that but it was a sore one and so that just put us in a as an end scenario that they were growing men bashing young boys but after a longer ago no i i ended up uh getting a social inquiry report dredge mckay he was the senior social worker for black hill and that surrounded area and i think because him honestly and told him like somebody else knecked the car and we were there and we were getting settings on the car so technically i never stole it but you still get challenged for carthage so whatever report he put on it worked because i got admonished until i get knicked again who was your lawyer uh peter forbes is all right he was our court appointed solicit for us a list at the time my dad he was on uh prison for for bank robbery at a time so i never had any male members of the family or uncles to tell me that she's the family solicitor or whatever you know it's a court appointed to listen and i kept with peter forbes right through it so you've done a year in glen oko after that what was that for uh donna young first the first sentence i went to glenoco was that was an 81 was for an assault and robbery uh with jill redman another local guy for black hill and there was a an assault robbery in elderly where a night safe bag was to get deposited on a night safe and we took it before they could put it on but unfortunately while we were running when i knew the whole area i was running towards elderly police station and i get bundled to the ground a little rugby tackle but you're fast walked 100 yards onto the cops were you fast was i thought it was fast i thought it wasn't that fast right now this guy had i don't know how fast he was but he was on a rugby team or a man was getting bundled today so we get nicked for that and uh i i ended up getting sent to uh glen oakley for the short sharp shock and that was a short sharp shot so what is that for people who don't know uh it's a military type regime uh you're not allowed to talk and tell your spontaneity uh loads of discipline and for me what i can remember is it's like being a young guy with blankers on until you end up in somewhere and it blinks at them off and you just need to get your head down and go on with it but it was hard james because there's a funny part yet when we were all held in the cell at the sheriff court glasgow sheriff court and uh it became apparent that everybody in the cell was going to the detention center and we're all running about the same age but there was this one guy with a moustache that was we thought oh he's a man that's what's he doing in here tanza he was under 21. he's going to detention center so he took the lead and the the cell be saying we're all going to this detention center we've all heard the vita and i really heard the i'm lost it to him he's the gang leader already the guy with a massage the big man and no he's instructing us or nobody march it's only for three months and we'll spend our time in the segregation unit and the march and we're doing nothing for rebels and we're all going so that only that took place until the cell door opened and then you've got a prison officer we'll list their names and you get called up and luckily for me i was called out quite quickly but i was handcuffed to two different people which meant i sat at the back of the bus so as they fill up the bus the gang leader with a mistake i even know he's now uh he's kind of halfway down the bus i'm near the front of the bus and i saw that ready johnny on a single deck up my bus because i used to gun them with my dad my dad owned two buses so i was familiar with with but i did add the bird's eye view i'm sitting at the back seat and then we it just dawns on you in the gate sort and you think oh hell what is this are you worried about anything i i'm not so much probably apprehensive for the unknown because you don't know you hear all these stories about what goes on and whatever you hear about what gazorn has actually lost them when it comes so the the bus pulls on and oh you hear nippy talks it's just shouting involved right listen to your name and sorry for the offside and quiet and within the first three or four names big johnny bravo winning mustache he's called off the bus right march with the refuse to march cut last laps and he was he was marching but he wasn't he watched he was tracking much kicked up the ass right at the reception so that was a kind of thing for us to go oh the leaders march and so next next one next name they showed he'd stopped off the bus and i remember the first time because i was hungry uh and and the detention center there was loads of food chips and different things like that and i remember sitting at a table making a sandwich pictures never even get a bite i dressed about eat eat their sandwich and it was a big aberdonian screw slapped it right with my hand and screaming at me there'll be no chat but he's here laddie got up dragged me up like that so he sat down in the chair feet together ankles together knife and fork half the chip take half a chip and then a slice of partly the bread that's how you've eaten in here and i thought you know man where have i just landed so does that date there why is that trying to discipline that it's dasha flynn what the whole the whole element it was actually [Music] a program for they were downgrading the boston the boston was 18 months the discipline was too long so what they what they called it was a short sharp shock was to frighten the life people were coming in on the hope that they're not going to commit any mere offences but at already being frank there's a cad anyway in black hill so the fear element was gone but i had to understand what the idea how they cope with us new environment and maybe about six or seven years we never even had a hair on my face and we had to shave in the morning and one of the things was uh you get a command in the morning by your doors so you have to go and stand in the hallway with a pair of shorts on slippers a towel over your left hand your plastic mug and your toothpaste and toothbrush and mat single file done and what they call the ablutions i thought abortions what the have lotions it's the toilets but it's all military-grade it sounds like dancing so and i remember this other ginger-headed irish northern irish crew and as you go underneath the the ablutions the toilets razer so he's getting people raised i came to me raised on about no thanks slapped me in the side of the head razor no thanks again you stand there somebody else came down razor no thank you sir and i thought all right that's what you have to say no thank you sir so he's went razer i went no thank you certainly he's about you well it was like that tango advert now years ago somebody started getting slapped i i was like multiple it's like an octopus he's something at the matrix it's up fast and it's only when it looked in the mirror i kept the plastic thing on the razor on kidnap i'm shaving but i've got these big red handles on my face in my body and i thought oh i need to pick my gear up for you done it so apparently you go through there and don't eat breakfast and then for breakfast to to the gymnasium and the sports field where you've got to try and get a male one and uh i used to run cross country for the school when i was at school but i forgot i'd done a three month remand lying on my work in bed so when i volunteered i used to do some cross-country running did you have a two every jail you were in i worked do you always have a tool on you i know that one i learned after that one time you get a tool only two was me i was a tool tools they had total command did they no conversations with anybody at all it was a it was a recon what was it conviction rate boy's reoffending again i'm not too sure i think it frightened the life of it quite a lot do you think it was enough i don't think it made you rebel no something for me i'd already been i was out in bail for a don't be obviously got for another chance for a possession of firearm so when i get released for the detention center i was right to court and then came back up and went and got the 12 months young offenders institution and next door to the detention center england oracle and uh that should have met a whole load of crazy yeah one particular stanza was james and neil uh his fault it was nearly the bomb he was always making unprovided explosive devices with matches and gas canisters and but he ran the whole jail and where was he fair he was for balonek quite a big family cutler brothers uh but nearly was the head of what you would call the jail gang it was called the glenocal wolves that specifically targeted sex offenders because at that time they were mingling around the same association so in order to get either the glonocho wolf she needed to get a sex offender either stabbed them slashed and caused them or scolded something had to happen to them before you get on uh certain people got a pass i got a pass because i'd already done detention and i was in for a firearm so it was a big offense for a young offender and what i remember of it nearly of strange he was he was very clever and manipulative because i remember one occasion he said come and see this fall he's opened that cell door and he said to this obviously i was a saxophone i didn't know what it was but he said show paul what you're going to do tonight so he stood on the chair nellie's got the towel and the windows open out the way in england oracle so nellie's put the bag not with a towel or not uh put it run the boy's neck and then said i know you're going to do this later on he said i he just kicked the chair away from left i'm dangling i know i'm laughing i shouldn't laugh but maybe i should i was announced anyway so so nearly shut the door and casually we're getting done for lunch so we're sitting at the table the next thing the alarm well goes the guy get cut down but there's there was a few people and nearly uh god addressed him he's no longer here nearly was responsible for there was a a home office inquiry and the fatalities and the attempted suicides and if they didn't want to hang themselves nearly used to give them a blade to see how sharp it was and if you're serious about being wrong about why you molested that kid or whatever as shows how good a deeper cut you can do in your rust and your ankles and they've done it changing out a few people in there no no no no no killing themselves they made them kill themselves but there's a few that survived so that was my introduction so you ever seen deaths and violence i don't have actually seen the death james to be honest with you in my mind this guy's dead but one of the things they said is was and uh and the workshop and the textile industry uh england oracle we've seen the ginger irish crew northern irish great again and i've looked at them and i thought he outside it slapped me for uh no taking the razor properly totally different attitude than young offenders they don't talk like that and we never knew any better so we decided i told nearly nearly the story and he said all right watch us no no i knew i was thinking watch this i watched them since they kicked the chair away and left the boy hanging for the non-singing for the one day and long after it there's a bucket a shirt that's going to get put over a screw his head and at that time and whoever done it it was a big heck for dandy that was his way auntie getting any of the the glonocho wolves and i know it's disgusting and it is really disgusting but so was the way we were treated and it was a it was a thing where nearly went it's amazing what you can do on here and i remember the noise either screwed up on the bucket office [Laughter] uh and the smell i saw that that's that's what i remember this is environment that you're living on yeah and nice going mission for the the cook house just development every day hellhole what was it like being mixed with the nancy's then because obviously now they've got their separate units and separately well that would mark people's cards and say what champ he's a sex offender and that was nearly kinda uh where it is not about a punishment because he always said well the kids couldn't really run for theirself so we'll do it and he did and they didn't miss them so you went in shorts prison in 85 286 what was that charge again that was a firearms i was involved in a situation with a guy called russell starting uh i'd already been fitted up in the past gym so it was nothing new to hear somebody's going to try and fit me up but this was totally different uh russell starting was working with stv studios on a an exposing a the drug squad and how they're trying to get him to manipulate and put drugs into my car i didn't really believe it or first until i had done astv studios heard what was going on and then me and russell had a meeting on balonock service station and one of these corporals was off duty obviously seen me talking to russell waited till he went away and he came over and tapped me in the back and said i'd like to have a word for you and i said i knew his face but i don't want to recognize him with his hat on he identified he's a cop and i thought what the are you talking to me for but he's making yourself hurt watch this guy he's going to you up so there's a cop tell me what i've already been told by the stv and russell so i'm on red alert james so i've asked him about look why are you telling me this and he made an excuse on the basis that he's looking for a shotgun i'm thinking i've got cut the grand in the house i'll think i'm going to pay them because i know they're using the recording devices for russell starting stvs wiring them up and i thought i wanted to get wired out because i need to capture it or something they can't believe somebody asking you that's telling you that somebody else is uh somebody else is uh going to fight you up so you've got a set ace in there well uh it was quite clear on the on the basis that i had a couple of grand and i thought i'm gonna give him four or five grand uh to make sure that uh what he's saying is i can repeat it i can go and get wired up but it soon became apparent that the cut the ground was no need he was looking for a shotgun i've already had left to cut way anyway cost a hundred quad each so go at a situation and i thought all right i can do this uh so i've been doing the stv studios told them what i'm doing uh they didn't know what not to do because it's creating a criminal offence me having a shotgun to go on a meeting it's probably a cop and wild up so they didn't want 90 days so i've done it myself so the charge was uh during the whole case uh in england they've got a defense called duress or asian provocateur in scotland of nagora you've either got a certificate for a shotgunner you've known heard anna i get three years for it and that's what went into the prison for for the three years for no having a firearm certificate was jen why i was still are you still no no obviously that was my first uh adult sentence what was that like for you well we're saying that that was strange well you go through the court back to billing and you're waiting to get moved to to glen o'connor i did done the glen oklahoma and the wife that was actually an adult prison at a time as well and when i get moved to shorts it was a kind of harsh regime but they were building a new prison go and go and meet a lot of new people in there and then the new show prison uh something happened there's a another guy called john gallacher a lifer he was in there they are coming to if he had prison to take over the jails they never got to take over the jails they were always very of the young crews and we were part of young crews at the time and there was another friend of mine james mclean it was on and geneva he challenged them on the exercise yeah because somebody broke into the canteen and one of these two girls ahead they came down demanded that we should surrender to the tobacco and the chocolate and get back the screws and yous so they got offered on the football patch and the strange thing about the football patch is it was always celtic supporters versus ranger supporters sometimes they ate aside sometimes ten aside but it was you always had spectators but to watch it and that's occasion because it was a challenge they can't win it there was four years awesome told up taking out so they never done it right away you link up with people for young offenders and there's bonds there that uh you become part of the prison gang we're all equal and what was your closest power james james that stays james james mclean he was in another one but i got to know uh jim healey who was a younger brother named keeley was another guy for ershad jack donaldson lelifer and it kicked off one time because john gallacher get moved or he asked to get moved and jock donaldson was wanted to take a screw hostage to vent the anger about wanted a gang being took away so i got all the jock and i said what is it you want to do it says i'm going when the screw comes running asks what you want how much you want not your private cash i see i'm just going to drag him in the cell and lock the door all right right so that means he's not involved in anybody else so my job is to get make sure he's getting enough provisions and bread rolls sausage all these sort of things chocolate uh and my job was then he phoned the news vehicles to tell them the demands john went in the community phone the newspapers and uh heard the screaming up and jock donaldson standing at the top of the stairs with a blade that screws neck and five or six guys i knew well were they in big bag sentences and what i can remember as maybe a year before there was a riot in bologna and there's a guy called bongo mcleish who was then six months for shoplifting got himself involved in the riot and bellani and got yourself 10 years consec ontario six months and i'm looking at these guys already then 10 years and 15 years they're going to get a hard time up so i had today something and what i've done was i knew the screw who get held horsty julie's i knew him for the young offenders he was never violent he was just an honest decent guy danny's job and uh i was asked to kind of calm things down about but if you date with rotten authority because he's only a authority person and he's the only one that can can say yes or no so i wrote a note on the basis that he's asking me to be a neutral body in the negotiations which means i'm no for it and i'm not against it and the reason why i've done it is because i knew about the law on mutiny what happens on the ship uh so you've got a crown authority you've got a crown a prison officer that's allowing me to speak on behalf of him and the horse details which turns out worked in my favor because i ended up going as a witness for other guys and said i could never have resolved the dispute for whitney for them so i proved that although i get the lawful authority to speak i couldn't have done it without them so i then gave them lots of authority through that so they all get found not guilty apart from jack donaldson who played guilty anyway so it was about a scary moment hi what was that late then for such a young age paul for ages are 20 21 getting caught with shotguns guns doing all your damage there just a way of life james it was something that you didn't you know i'm not saying track it down play and say you didn't you know whatever of course when you was just when you're associating with other people when i say older people maybe five years ten year old on that so you get and you have a frame on my mind where somebody doesn't want it move a shotgun i was always i'll do it i'll do that did you like the buzzfeed paul i i liked the fact he'd been involved with a gang at the time i just i just liked her just feel protected no i just felt this overall in the same boat or bonkers and the money was the money was not so much relevant but you always got money changed but it was just the fact that you're involved with people that's what i liked you went to a prison called pentonville what is that sounds like something in america what is that oh that's he's a a victorian english replica that's probably worse than bellini i believe animal uh i put i get put to pennsylvania than 1997. right for court right the the segue unit in pentaho because they don't have category prisoners i don't know his own character thought any time again episodes looking into the block anyway so uh i just never thought anything about it until somebody gave us a newspaper i don't know and that first night i'm sitting reading it i'm lying on my bed and i hear this right on the newsfeed and i looked at it and it was the biggest cockroach you've ever seen a big thing like that and it's standing in my face going so well it's reflecting newspaper that's hanging short over the cell i've jumped up seen another two so i've got my boots on and i've sunny and surrounded the bed with water thinking i've created them all i've got a safe haven uh didn't it work so i've put my trousers in my socks tissues right so i kept kicked them behind the the the cell door and then next morning the governor comes in and sees you because you're on uh you're in segregation and it it's it is monoferrous i'm going to governor uh any complaints of n yes two two you've just done this what's the first one i said i got porridge this morning and there was sugar on it he went uh-huh because you're in england you put salt in them scotland yeah so it's the other one and she's overcrowding he's terrible governor i don't know overcrowd how would you know you're just in the prison i said look behind that door or the cockroach he's all lying and he laughed and went you'll no need to worry about that shortly and i never knew what he meant for that but i died later on because my cell door came flying home right get yourself ready i'm going in another prison i ended up getting took for there i never knew where i was going i just thought it what other dungeon am i going to and it's a pleasant surprise at brand new brand new present belmar shot us and i thought what it's all for star hotel nice and clean knee cockroaches or no at that time anyway but pennsville was i'll use this term loosely but that was a hole was that a compatibility that's insufficient i know so you had that break you had a 10-year period where you never go did you i've never done a sentence what was your life like then for 85 to 95. uh 85 not i've been on i don't know the shots until 1989 90. how was it no yeah that was first year three well the whole chronology was i get three months detention committee detention and get 12 months and then for 12 months i got another nine months and then i got an 18 months adult prison sentence and then i get a three-year thrusting sentence and then i get run about nineteen eighty nine ninety and then the other five-year period where you never go to jail all right for nineteen nineteen nineteen i was on my mind in how many kids have you got and i've got five and they said why why the age difference that's my previous advice you know so technically this is the longest i've ever been out since i was a teenager you know 18 years done uh and it's something which it's probably been the hardest thing but if you're going through the chronology through the prison sentence and then i never really had a break i was like this revolving door or the magic elastic band that you go and come back and so a successful criminal doesn't get caught there so that's a million percent uh and a lot of people turn running and think oh that's the glamorous life is that you you certain doesn't matter what prison you're on or are you getting a visa do you mind it your family walk up stand up for that table at the end of the visit walk away you that that's the one that just the judge disney gear in that sense you give yourself that sentence and that's what it is so uh your family goes through it as well uh a lot of people said well you should have male thought for what you're doing and that's probably right but for any the younger audience that's watching it are looking towards somebody that's in the jail always remember this visitors walker they've got to go back the other sentence and it's no nice i've cried if you're eating i don't mind what not but you get tears dry up i end up guys like san fran but it's not being hard it's just been accustomed to no showing emotions because a lot of people especially the screws like to see it mm-hmm so when you went to belmar what was that like because that's got the reputatory different totally different i've heard the bell marsh before uh and i remember walking down this glenoco's got a big corridor they called it the russian front anybody who's been in there will know some of them used to have to polish the angle they were doing but this one was just something else this was a corridor that took you for one prison and it revolves around another prison then don't do what you call h block four and the first time in there uh i'm just glad it's a nice tidy place single cell uh sink toilet food was not too bad canteen was all right and i i like to have a puff something was it harsh in i i saw it or a bit of black and i'm thinking how did i get i get a smoke and that preoccupied me how did i get small and while i'll get preoccupied there's a scottish screw it was on and they obviously look at your prison files and i've always been on the decent jobs on the neck uh probably you get their job to keep the piece in different things like that but i get off of the laundry job on the wang and i took it and i got introduced to my working partner a guy called adnan horsham uh he was a an iraqi but with dual nationality british and iraqi nationality and he was in for hijacking sudanese airbus uh hijacking sedan diverting it to dusseldorf in germany and then refueling to stansted and then shot political asylum and what you've done it for as eager as first it first terrorist well he charged for terrorism and she's now thinking it doesn't look that's how i did that that's a very mild mannered spot so as i'm getting to know him i get to know his story it turns out he's a west end actor on theater uh and he got money together to go and save his family in sudan he went over there and paid a few bribes apparently the family got up and they get stopped at next checkpoint and then the same thing happened again so he ran out of money ran out of patience and i i'd asked him i was curious i went how did you hijack the plan and it and it it gave me a story about how westerners like spicy foods and i'm thinking right where the is this conversation right the people that like spicy food liked brown sauce hp sauce and i think all right what next he says i used the sauce for put black tape on it held upside down like a grenade that sweetie and i thought why did you have hp sauce i like it but there's a photography big ben on it reminds me he being safe and i thought it's a chance he's just i don't know if it's a one-off but i don't know many airplanes or anybody that's put black tape running so hi and then i said to him why did you do it he said the family's going to get killed and at that time you need to get back politics saddam hussein had invaded kuwait so he was about a pariah in the newspapers anyway and the media the whole western world was against them so they at adnan horsham's defense and the rest of them was uh to make sure that that that they had a duress an english law that they wouldn't have done that i felt life wasn't at last or their family's life was network so iran quite a tidy defense and they won his case and anybody that's looking to to to fact checked in and check adnan horsham the sauce bottle that's one of the characters that i met and then during the course he had nan tell me a story uh another scottish boy came on steve steven stephen told me me steph the orange guy rearranges the photo and he pulled me aside and gave me some tobacco and said you have to go on the exercise yard tomorrow all right yeah to see who uh the ira i thought hey honey i thought i really want to see me first so anyway if you don't go on you need a girl so i'm out and exercise and uh i remember vaguely not a scottish guy coming up with grey hair and he's walking how are you doing my name's paul back how are you doing uh and i had to say i'm after the second lap you need to off here because i might be in a bit of trouble and a surprise maybe soon well i'm way um if you're in trouble i'm in trouble no no no you can't you don't fight with these sort of people i went who i went that's the ira he said it's me he was the irish he was on demand for the water bomb attack and he threw airport and uh and i thought and it make with a lot in common he stayed in lansfield key i stayed in landfill keen i remember seeing surveillance in landfill because i thought it was for me it's obviously for him and then i go to the nitty-gritty and i said well what can i do from that he said could you get me hell die and i thought help that i tried to get a i could have gone i'm trying to cut a joint and i've never been asked that so there's always a way to get something so i was being truthful by saying leave it women i'll see what can be done uh no blown mind trumpet see if it could there's always something of course did he have a bird or something coming up i'll do that no i had to ask him but this was another weird thing i said to him so what color was your hair before before he heard it and he said ginger and i thought ginger i ain't buying hell died so i thought what it is we always how long have you been on the man mark he said three year i said why do i need to die your hair he says i need somebody that's already identified me as a guy with a ginger hair here i said if you obviously go die in the horse you know i but i'll can get my wife to get another new bottle then do that because that way you know the color is our variation is a different car i've never died here in my life first especially ginger so i've called off the the exercise to go up to what you call the bubble where you get close that's been sent on socks underpants boxers t-shirts track suits and that's when i i met another guy called edgar pierce an older guy he was called the mardi gras bomber and he was famous for putting explosives on sainsbury's bags and leaving them back in that case really but in the biggest pair of drawers i've seen a big massive pair of underpants even the screw was laughing going edgar come on look at this one and there's a story with it because it they ended up getting that much abusive that's done but they were brand new and i thought as an idea the hell walking socks so i told mike the idea boy to get his wife to put all the hair dye in the socks let it dry out and then send them in along with t-shirts boxers and they go them and that was the day i get elevated for the laundry man to be in the laundry manager and i've never caught her in my so you thought you were gonna potentially write i want you maybe do you i don't know i don't know i know i don't know he's won a bottle of hell no i think it's because i'm for you're a man to get stuff into the jewels no no no i think the whole position was i'm scotty some glaswegian i'm one he's in type of people sort of thing glaswegian uh and that's just a request that's probably his first time in the night i'm a seasoned veteran by that time so by the time he gets he's he's his hairdryer i need to look for a stash before i do anything and because i'm in the laundry room i've seen edgar pierce's thunder right so that was on the laundry bag the socks were in the laundry bag and then at night time that was me then my hair cut my bobbin but i did i get somebody who was cutting here to get and cut max air first someday on the phone to keep keep watch and then sunday on the landing to prevent something they can't fully sell so and at these prison cells you've got a sink so when he sat and done the sink i've got tepid water there's a mirror on it but you can't see it so i've got that sock dipped it under the tape head wall on it where flesh [Music] eyebrows so i've done that and i think we're going for it here uh-huh we're going for it and i'm getting ready for rona but and there you go actually he's dragged his hell jumped up look now perfect and the rules are they keep the white ball all the rest of the balls are in there for security reasons in case somebody puts in a salt and whacks them or the pool cued something gets worked out so you need to sign them up and that scotty screw was there and i sat in there in the crossword and he's showing fire his garlic off a pool tram there anyway i'm trying to get this ginger dye off my hands i remember taking the we still kidney come off so i've took the ball and i've signed for it so i'm playing on the table with a ball waiting for us mick taking these on the top landing and it was like a catwalk as soon as i've looked up and i'm trying to look away because there's other prisoners going this is always a new guy on the wing it wasn't it was sammy just had his helping swag undone the styles gets to the desk for a screw he's giving him the pool cue and he's done a double take next thing he's lifted the phone uh the alarm bells went off everybody's locked up because he's changed his identity and they never found the die so i had to top it up every two or three months and and i did me a throwaway comment but i think it was took the wrong way maybe i've no explaining it properly but i wasn't even making any disrespect towards people who have died for the cause physically died from the cause but after the fourth or first thing i said to mike i must be the only guy who died for cause that male times uh just because they die and whether it worked for him at court i don't know but uh that was that was one of the the funniest episodes just seeing this cruise face and they heard that and i thought loads of characters in here did they get sent do you know i'm not too sure what happened i get moved away before and i think if i'd get convicted i'm not too sure whether they heard that i worked on that bill marshall's get some heavy names in it paul that's the category isn't it well no well we were uh that's kind of it's still very secure but there was a place called the ssu which is a super secure unit uh i was never on it that's where you get double catty that was in it so uh no i want to see it again but i was secure even the family to get visits how that used to be what was uh my sister first came down had they got a closed visit and the cops had to yeah you've got to put down who you want to come and visit you there's prison staff take the details and then they they put it to the nearest local authority who then send the local cops to the door they take photographs to prove hoshi as they send the photographs back and then when they turn up at prison they take off take the fingerprints and that photograph should match up with the photographs that the police had took and that's the only way you got what were you doing during england i was visiting no i i i came down just on the on the chance of seeing some extended family and generally that day i was going to collect some photographs with my old metaphor sorry i haven't as you heard a lot of people now pause you know i said i'm no daft some people came on the show and i go i do you're talking pish but yourself i know to blow smoke up your ass but everybody i speak to for the boatman england to the top of scotland you're very well respected everybody speaks very highly of you why is that i think if you're keeping your life through it and you know blowing smoke up your energy and you're keeping it real true basically and then it's not a johnny bravo scenario it's just i've never liked bullies i don't like bullies and if i'm asked a question i'll answer it as best as i can if i if it what someday i'll i'll try and amend what i've got to say so it don't didn't hurt them but there are people who who are jewish years to be blasting i'm no one for holding back either so you tell it how as people like you for all they don't like you for it's just one of the things james was big bronson in it bill marshall the strange thing about it is that the iraqi uh guy that i met adnan horsham who hijacked the sudanese held for us was took hostage with charles bronson and i get told the whole story about that and i said to my dad what happened with charlie bronson he said oh he's mad he said they bust a pillow gave them up a feather h took his shoes and socks off and told him to tackle his feet he's never laughed for a while because he and he's saying we've just committed one death situation may be hijacked and kidnapped for this correct thought so charlie bronson's demand was cut a cheeseburger and a helicopter and they'd wanted add nanny flyer and then charlie bronson's mind that's because he's hijacked an airplane it would then follow that he can fly on a helicopter disney world two different separate things so he told him if he didn't get the cheeseburgers he's going to start eating the hostages i think he might be getting it in the next year or two well i hope he does because he's done me on some non yeah definitely he's he's somebody who joey paul used to look after him and that he's very well got but hopefully he gets given a chance and gets his freedom like so good luck to him you went to phil sutton after belmash what was that charge uh it's the same charles james it's just the move here you're just getting ghosted you don't uh you don't get asked him if they just come in and move why but you high risk no no for belle marsh belmar is about let belong it's a holding present there's no long term it's not a uh somewhere we do your your long-term prison or your sentence rather so they moved me for the belmar to fill sutton and what i never knew when i arrived in phil sutton was i met another cutlery's guys but i never knew i was a subject an internal ira investigation in the prison because there was a again a spurious newspaper article saying i'd been providing loyalists with firearms and blow the policy but enough to get your attention so same thing again ira wants to see me in the the exercise yard and then it went for their the football fields and there's three or four football fields and there's visitors changing rooms for other football teams that come in but that's usually where all the punishments happen and all the rest so that's where the the kangaroo courts are that's where things happen and uh i was asked to go and attend they speak to this guy not for me speak he's wanted to speak to me and it turns out there wasn't a lot of talk and i was today i was to do a lot of listening but in a nice way they were nice about her and what they had said is as uh do you realize why you're here no but i'm sure you're going to tell me he's right you fuzzy words we know you know us which means the ira and we know you know with him which is a loyalist and i went right he says in my mind that makes you a capitalist and i laughed i thought is that good or bad oh it depends what it is i said does that happen just about and see before you go just so i'd let you know we've got nana taught it area in here but tell your brother we forgot what you'd done in 1975 and i thought wow you know so their intelligence gathering they know i've run gyms they know i'm not involved with them today with the machine guns and explosives they think it's terrorism and you must be servicing someday the truth about it was never how did your brother do uh i'm not too sure but somebody said that he could not uh wanted ira uh i tell them horses it was a bomb and uh wakefield president i don't really know i was only a young boy james i was ten eleven so how many is in your family full uh five or one who's the you're the youngest no young sister four sisters is that oh sorry three citizens franklin prison after phil sutton that was a three-year stunt what was that for uh no no franklin prison was again moved under the under the basis that when i get took before to belmont and i get found out at the old bayley they originally gave me 45 years it was 15 years 15 years 10 years and i thought i i thought i was getting 10 years i was getting the maximum anyway james there was neither about that but i was budgeted for 10 years and then when i heard the 15 the 15 and the rest i thought i'm five years old somewhere uh took a couple of steps down the stairs and then i heard the familiar voice calling his back off the judge had exceeded these powers uh so he had to reduce that the maximum was a ten so i get ten ten and five and i thanked him for it or unconcurrent or concurrent so it was the same sentence going for belle marsh to uh phil sutton for full sun to to franklin that's the same sentence so just all right man's and then your sentence what was franklin like franklin franklin was a good player right frank franklin uh they'd ran run quite a good regime i've done my my course material there for the substance abuse the enhanced thinking skills cognitive awareness and it was kind of funny because i tried to enroll in the psychology course and for sutton and i was only two days and get moved but franklin don't do psychology courses the only way they could swap it give me a cookie course and i thought i should buy a leaf golden psychology courses so i just got my head done met the manchester boys on the end just started walking away in the circuits and then playing badminton and getting myself up yeah good badminding i thought it wasn't sure i played a good video clear you ended up doing an average year a mile did we think so than that so i was no bad it was average what kind of cats were you then uh treble a double a single way saw high risk or a psychopaths but boys you know that we understand did you meet any powers yeah i met i met a cutler boys it was on uh again another irish boy uh crazy we'll call him uh he'd escaped for a couple of uh dutch presents not some over in the uk fantasy sentence met cult of manchester boys one of the strangest ones was uh when i went to franklin they when they moved you don't get told you know so you can't take any food with you and it's normal hospital situation where you go and get checked to and then back onto the wing and there was a another scottish guy there grant tumble and he gave me what you call a food parcel a couple of sausages bits of painting cut the eggs bits of bread and i thought i'm going to make a breakfast talking beans and different things like that but what i never knew was the kitchen that i'm using they don't cook bacon and i don't cook pork and it was a muslim yard rastafarian kitchen and i met one of one of the raster boys in belmores and i kind of saved my baking for wanting a better word because i had the grating under the grill pan and i could sense about attention because with three or five of them standing they all looked like big basketball players didn't matter what they were they always looked to work in foot and i'm thinking i'm banging trouble here so i put my oil in the in the frying pan if that's all you had james lenny where was it just are you going to chase him a frying pan hi if you need to right so and then debbie the guy i knew i'll rasta guy i knew it was in for a contract killing called me scotty soldier gave us a cuddle but he's looked over my shoulder and went what the he baked under the grill so i told him i'd wash it i said look look my hat's a washer no you can't wash it you've used bacon and you just can't wash it for i thought not a problem i'll go down and ask for a new one and he went no i said yeah i couldn't get a new one he went no there's a screw in there called marco he used to do a bit of training but i think he took male story steroids because he was he was puffed and he was always there he's always a rare officer off to one of the female screws on the young blonde thing she was tidy to it enough but he was like charlie potato in the castle i've seen a few screws looking all right they don't intimidate me james i just want a girlfriend that's up like he keep the boys back but he's sitting at his desk with two reminders uh so i've come walking down he obviously knew who i was uh they didn't get intelligence reports so they're familiar this they get showed photographs so they recognize you on the wing so i went over and said to him uh excuse me sir and he's went yes so he knew lately that's fair sir can i help you i said uh i'd like to get a new girlfriend he hadn't really sat back folded his arms he thought i'm asking for a new growl plan for me i'm the gangster on the jail now no he said what's wrong with i said it's unclean never told the man because he can't tell the story to him because it's it's a racial thing right i said it's unclean he said son clinton why don't you clean up i said why don't you just get the grill fan because they'll be in the store room in a box take it up put a screw it up and then put the handle back on and he's going what if i don't that's all right banks i've had the right bill the reason why i've had the right bill was because someday more senior rank than him like a governor has got to come under the wing to say what happened so anyway i get ruffled through under the shell and i think oh i see i'm not even in the jail i know i've not even got my breakfast yet really on my foot a short time later door opens everybody's locked up door opens the screw and i'll station the other ones with plastic shields something that they judge the red looking and all of a sudden the shields part look the the red scene as governor feels right ferris what's the problem uh she's done that oh what did you hit the the right bell for i said because that guy over there the senior officer markham whatever has domestic problems is he shouldn't bring anti-frozen he's got a terrible attitude and if he spoke to me la and the outsider smacked him right over the head with a frying pan he said well what about the frying pan and i said i never got a chance to explain to him i went in the wrong kitchen i've growled some bacon in a rastafarian kitchen told them i'd clean it and they said no it's unclean fall i'd like a new one i said so i'm either going to get a new one or we're going to i'm going to have to be wrong about where these artists and he said is that that serious about that's not a girl fan he must have suffered in the store he said so forget your grill pan is that funny to the michael jordan basketball player stepped on a man the boss wants to see the head of the yard and i thought yeah here we go so it's a cell with a cutting shot and it's a big glow like that james if we just go it's a cone fell away all right and then he's going up the whole cell's like not no lighting up but it's noticeable battle bob mall in the background he's gone you know xavier i don't know he's not here thanks for the girlfriend i'm smart stoned up for a while i was i kept my food for later on but when she's munchied on my back so i ended up made my piece with them and then they called us out to get on to the medical one uh for me a lot of reasons james had psoriasis i need to get done and get my creams so at this occasion grant tumble he had hiv at the time and was on his medication he's always up and down and a strange thing happened where he was in the waiting room excuse me he's in the waiting room and he said paul watch us he shouted in harold chapman harold shipman's uh the mass murderer yeah i kill everybody as in the hospital wing and which separates the cell that we run and the the medical unit and the hospital wing is just a court yeah just a garden where they couldn't sit grant's shouting through the windows to him uh what medication should i get so he grants get a pen piece of paper getting diagnosed with this crack for you you wouldn't be trusting him telling you medication that you get but the funny story it was said chapman get moved because grants went on grant tumbles and told the doctor what he should be getting and the doctor's thinking who would the fox talk to him because they give you the non-expense non-expensive medication on the uh the famous one in bologna was all three you have it didn't matter what was wrong with your leg hanging off for somebody big scar there yeah i thought the smash the butts all three paracetamol on your way so grant's asking for specific medication uh so shipment get moved so that's akina they were on they were separated they were on a the non-swing what was it like being stonepole on the green in the jail we know paranoid as far as just one of their ones i thought it's a five-star hotel you've got you've got your cooking facilities and a strange thing happened as well uh on my first day they'll give me an application form to fill in to go back and spend the rest of my time in the scottish prison i've been in the scottish president james what i've recognized english prisoners i've looked at the canteen list and i thought after the three pages it's all spices and rice and whatever else and then you get a meat section they go to butchers buy all your stuff and what i i that you can cook you don't need prison food you cook your in stuff and what you got on there is you're allowed 30 pound out your private cash and then if you had a decent job which i ended up getting you get another 15. so you get 45 cards a week to shop to your bank we the fred we did one of the deep freezers that was full with chicken breasts uh fish was that keep you happy i think i think it's because you're in a long-term present they want a kind of make yourself sufficient uh it's a luxury the mayor the gay the mayor you're going to lose so sunday kicks off there's three standards there's an enhanced way you get 30 phone there's a standard where you get i don't know you get 30 quid you get something and basic is just basically you get all right uh you don't even get enough for tobacco so that's why it's an incentive to keep your head down and go on and i ended up that's what i i learned to cook there was chinese people and they're drug smugglers asian guys so and their mums taught they've had to cook and then they teach me how to cook someone for long i'm wrapping up chinese curries kebabs and then you cut the iris poison nervous making the patin and then because you've got a fridge freezer you've got ice cubes for chain was what they used to do that's just ingenious right they would not have used a mixed cherry rice and potato and the triangle off the pool table and the snooker table always went missing and you were allowed an iron in your cell if you had if you were having a visit or your island your clothes and the pots for the kitchen so what they've done with the triangle was put the the iron inverted upside down and the triangle and then put the pot on top of the the iron that heats the pot up that heats the water up and over a weekend they used to take all their doors so they smell when they go and over a weekend they'd probably get about two liters of patching and there's a straw a tube that comes with the pot that gives a plastic bag that's shaped a diamond and then the bottom of the bag it just drops to the condensation the technology alcohol i see dynamite that stuff oh yeah he died right so there was another party man i got to meet kevin lane uh catwalk kevin was caught right uh b's family but i went guy he would have been a champion boxer he get fitted up for a contract killing and he came in one one day and he's went for how are you doing my name's kevin i went how you doing kevin he's right that one else jelly knight and that one else dynamite you get any trouble in here let me know and i thought brian i said how'd you know of me he's right words have been set up arthur sorry joey file stuff what you saw girls tobacco phone cards puff and then they said what you doing friday honestly he was funny as kevin i said what am i doing for you what are you doing friday i'm going to the pub i ain't got it the pub with pub he's went mates and the cell so he'd shut the curtains out kevin does he karaoke but he's a good boxer not good at singing after the pacini sounded all right so what you get is like clear bottles like that fill up a chain and then suddenly we'd be sent up to get with fresh orange and then we're ice cubes and just sat in and having a drink and then eating so you you watch your day run you get your job done you go and do your education get your classes done during the gymnasium and then sunday was usually a lion a long line so but when i say how good it was you're still in frozen because you've still got your family leaving the table uh but a lot of madness try to make the most of a bad decision or not so when you go out then after you're 10 your last sentence was that durham no no that's just that she's all the same this is the same one when i got up uh there was a a spurious a claim that my girl had stabbed me or i had been stabbed during the doing the thing and i get recalled for all the rest it's supposed to be a shipment of puff and nonsense police intelligence reports so uh do you get a recall for that now get recall i get to over the social services uh that was my licence has never evoked meant i'm back on cat a which means i'm a danger to the public and i know what's happening james all they could did starve clyde is arrest me and take me all the way done i didn't think i'd make that journey because you might get banged on the basis that they're saying you try to escape so i decided i'll go and hand myself and good idea uh i got the guy who done the serialization for the book david leslie for news of the world brian anderson the photographer show up as my witnesses to make sure i get back done and hand myself funny durham uh which is it was quite funny because i've never been in local local co-op station so when i was in durham we asked for directions traffic no there's no city that i'm smart enough i've got my whole doll i'm all directed to this police station with tons of notification it's a police academy uh where i've gone it had myself on and as we're driving in a mini bus a young people was coming in and out and there was that an older screw there who looked to me and went ah now jordan said hi son you just missed under away in the toilet he thought it was a recruit to get the training college and he's buzzed the door open and i would get up these stairs and there's a big massive poster about be vigilant be aware terrorism is everywhere and i thought i can't be on the right place and we're walking up any of these big banqueting halls and seeing cabinets full of silverware trophies and photographs and i thought now we're in the wrong place i'm just looking for a child's desk and as we came out of i was like what the is this and the same screw had said you lost son where is it you want to go i should have to hand myself on should we i've told them so the next thing you saw these earth facing is coming man put your hand put your whole doll in the middle of the car park and put your hands behind your head and step back and i thought i'm a danger no before that he's letting me on everywhere so the voice worked on got us and took us to the right corps shot this time and they're all laughing and i remember there's another courtyard and now so i'm not getting about exercise and as a screw came up and went do you want some of your cigarettes and i thought what a change in attitude normally you get all in scotland you're part of your abuse you see can i ask you a question what defense she's how far did you get in the training college and i talked to you and i got to the banqueting suite and all the trophies he's run away until every gun where i go and it was about a scandal because it breached all the security so for there i ended up uh next day oh no with hannah cutler's license revoked took to durham another shirt hole probably worse than balani again right down the side because they don't hold cat prisoners and i was offered an inducement and they said is look we don't want to keep you in this egg you've done most of your sentence you're on a recall there's a scottish boy up there where tv and he sell would you want to go and bang that with him i want is that a colored one he said course i should let go so i'll get banged up get access to color tv you guys so he was mad ranger supporter uh he knew all the crowd that i didn't go on wind it so it was a it was a truce there's nothing happening and then he was down time for important cannabis and i remember the the priest come in and get a set of rosary beads and it was like the exorcist oh rosary and all of a sudden i get moved one day while he's at work and i put the rosary beads on his finger i sent him a little and i got a world but i found him after that so eat so i it was durham was no as bad as pentonville uh not as bad as uh either but it was a shuttle so you threw all that then paul you even though you spoke in the first podcaster but the corporals try to set up and kill you you just mentioned that there are games always in the back your mind that they were going to put one in your nut uh i've experienced it personally uh on my own uh and rossi uh 1984 when they kicked the door on there was three of them that was armed tons of only two of them should have been on so for three guns i'm quite aware you'll remember how many guns this point the one's going to get used on you and ben i think so i think so i uh especially in the nature professionally done i'm not criticizing and happened but gonna in the hallway hands out stretch to identify i have no get anywhere bump right up there face down left hand side of the face down on the floor this one's kneeling in my back pushing the gun in it so i can see him i can i can look that way uh six feet two snow white here george dixon his name was and he put the gun in the back of my head and said what's the effect you know what that says your little bars that you're gonna get and as i said that my partner at time henry a little of massive scream they never knew there was a female in the house that kind of saved me i think and then uh it was paranoid with me thinking well what else are you going to think james the approach that's been done to him as much as that didn't want to believe it i was just i'm on red a lot i'm ready for anna and at all uh what driving about the guns and i'm thinking if they try i'm gonna give it to them first i think the hash played a partner as well but no i smoked another smoke never took nothing i was just a little nothing the only thing i did probably too is a speed just to make sure i'm i'm on alert wasn't it yeah no i was just i know what i've got today i've got money to go and collect i'm going to go and do my business but i'm aware it looked like what happened and then everything all changed james when i got remanded uh in balani for that uh that particular case and then you get the transcripts of the audio tapes that are done and russell started the more importantly the one russell starting had done he took a visor out his car cut the pad nut and put a secret tape recording on it i think russell had already threatened the corpse at some stage anyway so they wanted to speak to him and ironically what happened was it was a cop called eric mitchell detective sergeant bird street that pulled russell over and russell never got his car just put the window down and that's kind of leaning in mate just talking to this and this is what he said to him stop front and police officers russell because your v-pal paul tried at once i can tell you here now he was nearly wasted he was nearly for a walk away up in the campsies one night was never nearly gone and if i think you're serious about threatening paula's son you'll just be going an eight fishing trip and won't be coming back either so russell knows he's wired up he just laughs and goes i would like that now there i've got it in order to not me i might be accused of a lot of things ain't a ventriloquist so when i'm on reminding against this i'm actually reading a magazine and it's not a pawn magazine it's a magazine i didn't read paul magnus that's occasionally reading this thing about biometrics and it's to do with access control in nasa where they're doing away with cards and ids and the things you've got to take to work with your hands and your eyes and your voice so there's three levels to get and so certain employees use their voice everybody uses the voice to get on the second one is the palm scanner then the third one is your voice your iris and your palm scanner and i've focused on the voice the voice you can get a voice graph analyst test on because everybody's got a voice and distinguishable not a fingerprint and i was wanting this audio chip a servant police officer checked to make sure i sam in the disney denier and we were teed up for getting an american uh expert on on the voice graph analyst and he admitted in court that was his voice but he also said and dismissed the whole cross-examination for donald trump they looked right to the jury and said ladies and gentlemen jury when you're dealing with seed severe criminals like him the police used a procedure called bluff and counter bluff i was only kidding now i didn't know where to fall out the door i stand up and clap that was a good fair play and we blagged it but the serious thing about it is see if there's no training course in tully island that deals with bluff and count of love normally they committed perjury the threats were real so that ended the paranoia so you do think that they were to kill you so i don't do you think they've got that pose out with they they then they'll each they've done it for yeah we've done that for scary that and that that's but it's it's an occupational hazard don't don't be gonna damage your den and don't expect them to treat you because parts of the game do you think that's part and again so when you get 2002 how have you managed a man with your reputation to stay the last 18 years was there a time you had realized there's no for me anymore it was very early on and it was in the bell mass when i was unaware that i was under investigation with mi5 and security services or lost other agents and it's only when i got my productions your case file for my solicitor i've looked through it seen all the surveillance reports and these witnesses never had names it was witness a and i had the whole alphabet near enough what i say 23 years security service so i became aware that when you come with the attention of the level with these sort of people you're either going to give it up or you're going away for a long long time so that was my motivation to look at and go you never thought you committed attention to these people i'm going to get my head down going on my sentence so when i get released on the 21st of january in 2002 uh i was met outside to be reg makai because we wrote the book by that time but equally there was about half a dozen reporters and and i told them i was going straight they want an interview and i said i can't i've got to get back to glasgow and see my social worker i've got a timescale on it to go and tell us people laughed he's going straight let me kind of change his spots and all the rest first and foremost i left for nineteen spots so it was a commitment to me and my family and my friends that stood by me and most most more importantly reds red gave me that uh belief in myself that he believed that attendee today and i did that just fortunate reds with me here to see the whole show but if it wasn't for red i wouldn't be sitting here or not do you miss him paul i missed he was it was normally my partner in crime writing he was my mentor he was my previous social worker uh a good friend and somebody was very we we called him the champion of lost causes because he always used to take pete one that was just kind of fun and he would take them on and uh give him about a self-esteem back give him a bit of faith back the system or whatever it is but it was quite controversial for girl ridge and look at all the books that he wrote and things that he done it was never credited because they say that he went native he went too much with me whenever he went professionally and what he believed on they didn't like me james and that's i don't like them either so it was one of those situations where uh reg kind of rocked the boat as far as establishment is concerned he's new writing books about corruption and it's it's something in which they see potential jurors reading through stuff like and going whoa and maybe sit in that trial followed on the line going i'll read that book this is what they really do gone's a day that they get witness boxes with their uniforms and their medallions and then they're taken as face values as a respectable witness it's all about what can you prove and unfortunately for me i've been very lucky uh known the system for a young age having the right legal team uh and i've just exposed them continuously time after time after that and i'll still do it you become a fan on the said po oh no a big drag in hilton bush tumbleweed i'm going like that oh that's him again right so i i that that and and i think they were doing the job they get paid today that's fair enough they were out with arena they supplied maybe drugs so they're followed a drug dealer don't think you can do something and then jump behind a wall card in a uniform and say aha no no you've gave that up he became a drug dealer he became a gangster with guns and that that's how i view that i was i threatened him but i never threatened the cop i threatened somebody who was acting a gangster yeah biggest rivalry paul was tom mcgraw he was our biggest driver in glasgow between years two at one point how did that start there was no real rivalry you can't i knew but tom mcgraw for a metal i knew he was a grass for a mill and i knew i had to be careful with cnn and run about them an adversary no for that start not even fair metal uh might have had a lot of money but you take away some of the stuff that you've been involved in uh like the doyle murders uh two innocent guys several innocent people getting convicted at her tommy cam ended up being related to me married my cousin uh and i always felt a rerun that misfortune a big lump yeah guy like tommy going on hunger strike get down to seven stone to prove his innocence fight his corner away and then you get a slippery bastard like mcgraw the snake i called him and i tried to say it one word then i couldn't say it in one word so i'll repeat it again he's a snake and people know know what he done and so did the coppers very early on know what he's done so you can't have a drug's wharf on ice cream fans when it was out of david drugs it was today ice cream vans i was to stop people doing the runs and it was a personal dispute so the rivalry when my god we knew what you saw it was a dog and it was just one of these things where newspapers play up to mr vig this mister bag there we only tolerated them because you're the pub that's all that my joe hanley was wanting him so and i moved an area i think i was gonna wait for d division ended up going for the frying pan right under the fire but apparently mine at tom vegan at the time he made sure i was all right i don't forget time for that and always also tom doesn't like get mentioned and things like that but i i've got to mention this and and wish him well and good luck please done uh this sort of papers handbag you know there's no challenge all right so the papers blew up because i've had joe sterling and tco and they spent over 20 years in prison for a crime that didn't commit seeing loved ones dying well in prisons james i know i've seen your podcast right you think the police intelligence gathering do you think they never knew they never done it of course they did of course or did i but it went against how they teed up their crown witness belly love that all of a sudden was on remand for a robbery and they accepted the fact that he'd been identified as a robber and now all of a sudden he couldn't have been on the robbery because he's sitting in the barge club listening to tommy camel talking about lighting the fire so they knew they knew they trusted that big case man that all these years on the doyle family still having to get any closure as well james it's one of the one of these situations where tommy campbell and joe steele always maintained their integrity all the way through it because it was me for them to point fingers to people and say i never done it they've done it i don't know if i could do that i don't know if i'd let him walk a bit to be honest with you but it he did uh he's uh he was uh i don't keep going on it but he's not here that shows you the strength oh that mcgraw had over these cars because they couldn't let him talk because it's going to expose all the rest enough for up uh joe joe steele and tommy and big tambi and all the rest joe granger a lot of people were unnecessarily put through the mill without one and it's bad enough going to prison for something that you've done i've never been to prison for something i've never done i'd like to make that clear as well but i don't know if i'd have been able to go to prison for something didn't it mm-hmm it's a different ball game because i would have got involved in some i don't know james it's quite obvious i don't know i've probably done something there going to court and i say that yeah i've done that but i've never done this that's a mentality they push you into something right the first podcast you were on tommy robinson got a mention it blew up not blew up and if i'm honest man i was just starting off i probably had the weather spooner because he mentioned that there was nothing truly never mentioned anything no it was true but to clarify it uh i've got an elbow against tommy robinson if you've wanted to running a book waving nazi flags and being made english than the english really wanted you and then getting photographs taken with israeli defense force and big tanks i don't know where his heads are but he's obviously wanted to do something it's not for me i don't know him well enough but what i can criticize him for was a video that he done saying i'd been involved in several months who is he trying to make light yet and it turns out my only view was he keeps that up his security won't need security and that was a throwaway comment and it ended up people contacting me saying paul has security he's freaking out is there something going to happen to him i went no it was just a throwaway comment what was it about i said just a throwaway comment on a podcast it was nothing no no it was nothing i tell you which it was james he traveled all the way from england up to a cost of a political i'm not any poor politics i'm no defending a politician what i couldn't get my head wrong is he never the to go to westminster to wait and john berko coming up because he said the exact same thing save dory train fails or how he got up maybe he's these uh friendly israelis paid for his transfer i don't know but he'd get somebody on his doorstep that he could have went and he decided to go and get somebody committed a library or something and i cost him so he's a bully and that's what i said that i was an antidote for the bullying and yeah and if he's listening to this one that wasn't he meant like that but it wasn't a huge ask for that debate and it's when people have jumped on it it's quite [Music] because i'm thinking it's just creating more traffic towards my channel so it's your podcast question yeah game is due but he came on the podcast after and told his story yes everybody's entitled to the views on their voices he jumped on on the back anyway it's done yeah of course people move on and doesn't know well tommy go and do your thing what was you who was the maddest person you ever came across in your life in prison outside some i can't even mention but they're not mad but i'll give you one example uh james mclean uh jennifer we never knew how severe he's his deterioration in the and his mental health was good uh we should have and that's a funny story this one but it's not something it belong own somebody with that had a mental illness but we were asked to go and uh collect some money off an individual who owned a whole chain of aquariums selling tropical fish for believe it or not and some of these firsts was like 1500 quid and different things like that the whole rule of thumb was something like you go back and you catch some of the off gardens tell them what they're driving where they stay where they go and it's just turn on them and they say yo that's money first of all you go establish that they own the money certainly before you go anywhere you've got to make sure they've got the money before you ask them so james went we wanted our guys another field agent and when i get told the story when he came back i thought unbelievable this guy's got the owner in the aquarium shop and he's told them where he lives what he's driving he's not moving james for the money he's denying not dying the money he's just cherishing it wasn't a chart until jamboree attracted and said to him listen you you're out if you don't get us money the fish are getting it i'm the guy crumbled went and took the money and paid for it so there is a weak spot there he's more interested in his fish than life in limb so james was nearly was another one nearly a famous one for breck nancy sandy's car uh taking a spark plug and putting it right in a plastic bag full of petrol and taping that up so when they jump under the car i've seen when i bonneted his car went about 200 yards right into a crowd uh there is a lot of strange people maybe one called one myself it takes one you know i don't know what i say but it takes one another one but there is a lot uh but again these things happen people talk about serious and organized crime the truth of it is a serious but there's not a lot of organization on it sometimes it's a newspaper as it jazz it up and uh it's probably the only time i'll probably agree with a police statement i think it was mr wardler uh william fewson that said uh there's no such thing as organized crime is disorganised that's right to an extent because you have certain elements these certain groups of people that are associated through geography world areas where they come for maybe football teams and it's not like the mafia mafia theory dark and eye crime they penetrated the judicial system the banks and you know that was serious and organized crime so import the awards godfather gag master talking all the rest it's just a pleasure oh it's it's to paddle a story for them makes it a bit more exciting you have powell's way rob carlos who was very well respected in glasgow manchester a boy for the streets yes and then went down and ran manchester how did that relationship you and well i know his brother jim schwartz prison and there was one occasion where jim was going away teased villain in spain and asked me for like forever get down and see rob rob was wanting to meet me and i was wanting to meet rob uh and i did i intended to get done for the weekend and normally had a used to drink a couple of beers maybe two a few lines of charlie i figured if you get too drunk and what i remember about about rabs was it that's bad goldfish fall and with the rubber hoses coming up like a bong but i i thought that was crack that the smoke no not tons of it's free based cocaine uh tried it myself and stayed there for three months so long longest time i soon found out rav had the biggest and best gun collection i have a scene uh i can talk about it now god dresden is no longer here and i want to address some of the situations because when he died there was a lot of newspaper articles about good riddance divide rubbish and unnecessary he's got family he's done his time he's done what you've done but the funny story rob is nuts rob is absolute crackers and one of the things was he always liked magnum ice's ice creams it uh her own habit cocaine harbour uh never ever bought drugs that was always always had them running but that combination in the guns there was one time where i was i was on his house and uh he got one delivered and he opened the box he said would you think that one phone i've looked at nine millimeter silencer sub sonic ammunition and his phone goes and he's got to go to the shops right so i'm sitting in the house put the silencer on put the rounds on the clip got a phone director i put it on the stairs and went oh you have it that was annoying i thought check the phone directly right through it so i put yellow pages and a couple of books i've maybe done about three or four shots before rav come in and anybody that's fired a gun in a house they know they can smell the cord date right so rob's going what have you done well that's about your tool that right now i've showed them the the the phone director the yellow pages and the books and i usually even where the gmat i went on the stairs the shock on his face i thought it says oh pulled the gun out now and i discovered that he had these lucky three-quarter lens trench coat later on for the gang days and porcel uh they had them under the stairs and he took those three shots too often during the day until maybe friday one o'clock how hard is it policy pals who you loved and adored and respected to see them deteriorating through drugs in the later life well looking back to the the early prison sentences uh i don't know if i'd have been caught up in the gym there's a good chance i would have been uh but i missed it off for the young offenders and when i came out some of my friends had been on heroin the jellies alcohol uh they became untrustworthy but i never noticed that i still had them they physically changed the weight loss and that voice that they've got sandpaper so it just they became characterized and would that try to help a few but they didn't want to help myself they just go on it so much er that the help would have been there if it was needed and what we always found is that they weren't getting them money so we used to take them out and return track suits trainers and then after a while they sell them james they get back up take them off just put them in the bag keep the receipt in case it's sad it's sad but again it's their choice it's their life how was it then coming up and totally trying to go straight did you do you still feel as if you've got a magnifying glass on you know funny enough when you're in custody for a while those there's nothing changes on frozen it just turned prison's present conditions might change but environment out here and different eras change and i remember vividly the early 80s the music at that time was like pink floyd direstrates and then get picked up after the sentence in 1990 where nearly the bomb when he's brother but that's music going boom boom what are the speakers motorola well and i'm going what the is that that's the new music that's and then you end up on a private party blink was yeah and he was a first guy who gave his uh an ecstasy and i thought drugs no i said oh i ain't taking drugs it's a different kind of truck so i see people enjoying that song i think you still got that i think he's half up zone's off take half here i'm talking my feet an honor so it was my introduction yeah and then all of a sudden it just cold for them it's mad to think and see you puffing our own green man if i was to smoke a joint you man i would be throwing balls i'm tripping oh my mind goes over my wife because i used to i used to experiment with uh lsd but only i can find it i never took lsd you know but somebody had claimed that we took lsd in a nightclub never happened club no but it's the same thing again james it needs to be in a controlled environment because i've been on the wild child without aldous huxley the doors of perception uh done i cut i've replicated one of his experiments when i was in shorts and i ended up a big mural that i drew on the wall it was like a caveman painting it looked and we speak quite frequently over the last year or two and um obviously i've got a get a better understanding about you and we spoke about the ayahuasca i think it'd be a fascinating thing i would be up for it purely uh as another experiment i took drugs experimentally some i self-medicate always self-medicate uh other people take the medication maybe too often and too much but it's it's like finding your level but not to be dependent but you always need that when you get to that edge and everybody knows when they're getting to that edge bang where's the parachute because you can't go through a lifetime things haven't thrown no realize that you know get mental health issues everybody's got mental health issues there's some i've got them greater than others some people know how to put the brakes on mentally some people don't uh substance abuse that's what i like to call it and it's not it's a word i don't like having somebody that they want to call a smart card or a coke head or okay you know it's derogatory words you're putting people back on your box person so substance of yours i i saw it today with different substances even the prescription drugs you know some they might have prescription addiction to prescription drugs and alcohol it's a whole lot diverse and what i've found with the younger cruisers because i talk to them and they talk to me because they know i'm not involved in authority they don't i used to be one of them and i discovered what i've done as an ex and i said to them explain that to me again we take mad dog 50 50. we have a couple of joints cutlass lethals and i caught waffles and maybe about charlie i went what on one go huh would you do that for some don't so that's what i've done they take it to the extremes uh and they're heavy and ecstatic they say sake it's like a catalog that's a cocktail madness that man but i think that's a problem where the younger ones they don't really realize what they're taking there's been a few deaths involved and i think it's just that they're too a risk and they've been ignorant and i think maybe parents that don't know about substance abuse people want to learn i'm hoping to get involved in some of the course material and doing that again i'm looking to get involved in youth justice purely on the basis that i want to be a regular chi type figure that was there for the lost causes but i don't stand for any james if these people want to help themselves then i'll help them until they don't want to help themselves give them an incentive to go and do it yeah if i can do it they can do it i'm not different from yeah everybody needs a hand but again you've got to want that hand you need to want it well there's two key elements here first and foremost as you need to find out that they want to help themselves that gives you that time you're not wasting your time you know bringing academics or professionals and that you're not wasting their time another thing about us is to help them constructively explain it they might not be good at reading and writing the literacy and the numeracy might be affected as well as their communication skills so the second pillar as to form a respect contract between them and whoever comes in notice where naughty go for your head no not be violent towards them because these young guys and young women are volatile and you need a safe environment so if you're setting the standard for them do you want to help yourself we'll help you if if we help you you need to respect us and the people that are coming in because know everybody's in my life stay on got professional counselors academics other people want to help to change so there's an infrastructure definitely so much related action paul whether it's trauma it's something that's triggered something there's so much more than having an addiction if you look at the same elements we've all got we've all got dna we'll all get different figure fronts we've all got different voices so we've all got different problems okay one size didn't if at all but you can reasonably turn around and say well there's an issue here there's an issue with self-control and self-belief a lot of people when they take whatever substance they lose themselves they forget who they are and in reality when it comes in then they try to stop the worst thing probably people could do is go cold turkey and stuff that's not the right thing that's hardcore stuff that's what you get in prison writing a prison cell bang door lock you damn damage to them and then else so there's a slower progression in which there's a need to ground them back to reality because there's an escape isn't fair people don't like to see reality they like to get drunk like to get stoned elected and that's not just enough for the inside are they yeah that's before they want to open the door but do you think that for when you grew up as a boy fit in the streets the way the young boys are nerds you think and it's probably totally different again james who with my dad reserved it's it's evolving and people say uh the young crews just knew when they let the cruise back and they said the exact same about us when we were younger you know the older crews were saying uh it was nearly as away back in the day so how far do you take it back you take it back on the basis you even see we take it back 50 year look at the technology you got right now doing this interview to what they had done the advancement is social skills and interacting reputable conversation is gone too many there's a lost generation with computer games they're still mentally teenagers because they've no evolve their social skills because they're never at the house they're vampires yeah i used to say some of them during the day i went just sat on your shoulder what smoke coming off you what do you mean you're a vampire somebody switched it off so there is a game in addiction there's a lot of people the parents don't know how that look clear i had a gaming addiction i used to play the kids games first to make sure they won the block give us a shot give us a shot so i went through maestro so i bring a table life experiences and other people who i'm trying to weave into the program have got academic experience they've took the time and effort they go and get their accreditations through universities and so hopefully there's a happy marriage for that one because always give an example and ask somebody when would be the first time that they can recollect the country and what part they would remember for the country and normally it's usually the smell right you try and read a smell in a book you can't do it you can read the words about it you can describe it but you need to smell it and it's the same thing about life you need to smell the reality before you can you can read them better and so that's why i liked in daniel brooks and didn't it when i did the interview with jim it's it's hopefully educational for other people i'm no certain blonde when trump but it's just one of these things where people are either going to like it or they don't like her but i wouldn't want to waste an opportunity that i think i've got i'll get young kids uh and i hope that when they grow up they'll see me for what i'm on what i'm doing uh and it's because i wanted it i'm not trying to look good on my track day nothing for anybody that's going through this drug whether they're no paul maybe in the jail with the jail just coming up struggling with my addictions maybe i look at their life i could even think i want to be a gangster what advice would you give for them uh well they're going to end up spending the best part of their lifetime in prison if they're lucky or they're going to end up dead or they're going to have seen their friends that they're going to put their own family through the the the mill uh i've done it i know exactly which as is good when you get the money james but again you're getting back to when you're sitting in the prison at your table and your family walk away for you doesn't matter how much money you put in the table you can you buy that pack actually so the longer you're away your family deteriorate it's about like somebody having a job four weeks or four weeks on the relationship it becomes not so much toxic it's just the feelings get numb and for them they want to start to own a life a crime it's a choice that they've got to make and i'm no saying they're wrong and then and i'm not saying they're writing dinner because i've got no control over their thought process but what they should think about as enhanced thinking skills as your aims your goals and your objectives where you are right now and where you want to be in life and if people look beyond the hardships that is difficult people automatically need funds to get the food pay your utility bills fuel in the car average and responsibilities everybody's got that responsibility some quote up greater than others but i've got family members that have said to me our valerie's foreign i'm happy the job i am then after this five days a week sometimes a day six days a week i couldn't live the life that you've left and i'd say the exact same with them what i couldn't do with you everything so it's a personal choice and hopefully when somebody says to you don't get me that far you're going to burn your fingers or if you're turning around having a conversation to it you're going to have you want to burn your ass so that's what crimes are for people and if you want to keep standing up on your ass then some wrong way [Music] if you want to keep going to prison which i've done revolving doors no it must be sound right you're either not very good at that which is a fact or you're just being unlucky but i don't i wasn't it was an occupational hazard my job was being a criminal that's what i was that's what i gave up and that's what i'm going straight now a lot of people say you're the uncle cousin have you ever had any trouble people phoning you inside no i don't i don't mind it james and i'll draw a line attack if somebody wants to use me uh to get your situation or to prevent any violence i i'm cool but i don't know somebody like me agree with somebody using my name to force something on something and become a bully on someday then i would act on it but i mean when i was growing up people used to talk about johnson it was the great uncle and the dad they never had and all the rest of the nonsense so if it gives something about a comfort and it doesn't need any harm i have no problem how does it make you feel that so many people are so interested in your story and why i listen what you've got to say how does that for the boy that you came through to what you didn't know i don't really know the answer it outlined james it feels strange uh it feels it feels strange and i i get humbled as well but there must be something that it's not it's no be it's a story it's about events that i've done in my life and how you've come through maybe people can can relate to it i'm not looking for any empathy i'm not looking for any round up laws it's just as with us so plans for the future then paul listen for people watching there will be a part three the day we've just went on a different journey which i've thoroughly enjoyed another actions i'm telling you as uncle paul forward for the future now paul um you've done all your books you've made your film what's the plans for you you're going to get another book another following part two the book i liked writing books uh it's it's it's merely a therapeutic florida it has reg called it the big fancy word cathartic you know for boys in the street they don't know it means you're doing all right if you're selling you feel about better getting it done in pen and paper and that's what i didn't i'm actually i was asked to go on a scheme uh that's getting piloted on several prisons they're doing poems and literacy and writing about things and i've asked to kind of comment on some of the the the writing skills uh that that's good and i enjoyed doing that anyway but there is young boys and young young girls and these sort of establishments that can everything right so the man at the last he writes something the revert and herself so maybe there's more room for if give them an opportunity either through art and recording because what i was interested in then was getting somebody to do their video diary for one of the programs that i'm doing no the treatment programs so in the event that if somebody's looking at the success rate don't believe us don't look at the papers and and david you're done as a data stack go and look at the amount of people that's wanted today they're in interviews about themselves on a daily basis and how they feel that they can do it so i'm currently working on visual projects you know uh i've been asked to get involved in a few of them but i went through a personal uh challenger just know hmrc it's liability to come out in some stage or another so it makes well me mention it just knowing that wasn't it nice getting threatened by anybody especially government agencies like that that could have went really wrong for me and whoever was wanting to go and come and jump chop the door so i'll leave that for another interview james and uh anything else that can help me on on that basis we're looking at getting uh not so much a podcast on on treatment james is today we're having a website available for somebody who's got an issue again can i guarantee them a response within three years there's a guy that i'm working with just now called mark dempster another when people hear he's being an ex addict he knows he can smell the in the farm he's get the finger on the pulse so this is another academic that hopefully we're building things that we're going along and uh again use guys day some the better work yourself to bring alternative uh entertainment like that's because it was entertainment for 40 people it was the entertainment you wouldn't get the viewers that you can't know and it was only to thank you for for your time in your hospitality again likewise paul and i never knew about the third interview yes there's so much we can touch on where you the first one was more about your life came through a lot of stuff but i think people know about that now yeah touched on prisons today a few other wee topics but the the parts that i'd like today will touch on the future your plans to making change talking in prisons making documentaries treatment i mean you're going right now i'll consider that just before we finish up last question paul if the paul in this day could speak to the paul at 18 years old what would they tell him quite a lot but he wouldn't listen no that's fair enough quite a lot to listen hindsight it's great james can back honor you could talk to yourself with hindsight but the reality is if i wasn't going to listen to my dad i certainly weren't going to listen to me but there's elements where you can look back on it and say i there's loads of things you could say to yourself back then would you listen as the problem because at that point me identifying the threshold for treatment programs for people who want to help themselves first if they're not prepared to listen and i know back then i wasn't a for listening and so to get an honest opinion probably say a lot but whether we get in one on the other probably yeah that's the hangar but they don't listen the thing about it there is james it's a great analogy that you put up but i think a better analogy is you've got your respect to source before you can accept advice and if you get somebody that you respect enough you'll listen to them it might not even be a family member might be somebody that the respect is going to begin first james and depending on who's saying it it might carry about my weight so that the the regression eating back to your childhood and saying if only you've done this i've only done that it's good to to remember yourself how far you came forward you've got the same issues they've grown up i've got the same issues you've grown up you're an ear you're 50th you're half percentage of your lifestyle i'm in my 75 percent and when people tend to look back and go is one fear know for younger ones because they can't look back 10 you'll look back 10 years they might only be 12. might only be 11. but for somebody who's thought to look back to when you're 21 where did that 10 years go tubes it's fluent so you can look and you can guarantee we all drew the respect that somebody's going to survive another 10 years and planning that forward leap is a bit more an incentive don't waste your time don't rush your time things will happen if you're prepared to do it it's not going to happen that torso coin or you wake up the next morning wave a magic wand unfortunately disney work patience and patience determination rolling your sleeves up taking the good with the bad and and hopefully working especially under these circumstances that understand isolation understand the psychological issues it will cause i've been in isolation myself but in a different way all together but this is totally different for a lot of different reasons and hopefully people can face up to the fact that everybody's getting mental health issues it's no nothing to be ashamed but but a lot of people tend to hard and they don't know who to talk to they don't know what to do this kind of brings it over uh internet's good now for touching bass i've been on twitter for quite a bit i've actually quite like that you've got a lot of direct messages asking and i did the exact same you know what you're then uh in touch investment so again it's to do with figures is to do with the interest that people have got and if you can maintain somebody's interest for the benefit again no blown you're on trump then the big i am just telling it as it is because there'll be some out there looking for that that's what i forgot about me i'm gonna try this if you don't try it you never know exactly and i think i think everybody has got an opportunity to build their own self-esteem back up we've all had that relaxing done some people let it go too far and it's hard that they get back up but uh everybody's got their own character and they'll do what they wanted but they need to be shown certain things for other people's life with the finger wave and exercise and saying you should do that the minute you do that people know that so the determination for what you're doing james and the commitment you've got to entertaining people through your podcast is brilliant and and wish you wellness i appreciate that and for give me the time here again to come down and tell your story you're doing me a ton as well so but people coming on people listening as mine just got to keep chipping away consistency is keira's name day in the uk what's harder than me main netgear puts on the graphs will shout with a neck boy um but just what can make consistency is key i don't want to keep stopping or pull because i know my demons are still there every day everybody's going i need to keep chunning them keep progressing because there's always some day people would start podcasting think it's easy it ain't easy and i'm glad they've started because then they'll know how hard that work but i believe i'm already the biggest in the uk thanks to guests like yourself and i'm only going to get bigger and better and stronger myself belief my confidence is sectioned on it's unbelievable [Music] for coming on today brother telling your story i can't wait for part three we'll take it on a different journey but thank you brother pleasure james check out more of my podcasts on the right and be sure to like share and comment your thoughts on this week's podcast thank you

Channel: Anything Goes With James English

Views: 1,085,984

Keywords:

Id: 6ov9KibzZAY

Length: 120min 52sec (7252 seconds)

Published: Sun Oct 11 2020