Former Aryan Brotherhood Leader Incarcerated for 45 Years | Sitdown with Michael Thompson

let me ask you this because I know you know viewers are always fascinated with something they don't know about and the prison system is something that people just you know they have all they've seen movies they hear things but they're so fascinated by it in 45 years and this is probably a difficult question loaded question because you saw so much what was the worst situation you've ever experienced [Music] [Music] thank you [Music] hey everyone welcome to another sit down with Michael Francis hope everybody is doing well all is great on this end and as always I give all the praise honor and glory and thank you to God for that I have a very interesting guest today and I mean that very very interesting his name is Mike Thompson he was once the leader of the Aryan Brotherhood and he did 45 years in prison for a crime that he maintains that he did not commit I'm looking forward to this conversation I want to hear a lot of things he's a controversial guy but so am I we got controversy around us I'm here I'm going to have a conversation with him I'm going to let him speak his piece we're going to hear what he has to say for me anybody that did 45 years in prison and survived and comes out with you know his brain intact and his emotion intact there's something to be said for that so I want to introduce you to my guest Mike Thompson okay so Mike pleasure to have you here it really is I've been looking forward to this interview I know we had a few postponements through the schedules but here we are we made it you know you're a bit of a controversial figure as am I and uh I know my viewers are going to enjoy this very very much because of your experience to have done uh 45 years in prison in this system and uh to be out and to be whole in a way and I'm sure you have a lot on your mind with respect to that but it's uh to me it's uh it's an amazing accomplishment thank you and I really mean that first and foremost Michael it's a pleasure to be here and so far as the controversy and What would life be without it all right you know that that contention if you will and particularly with social media it seems that everybody has an opinion and the fact of the matter is I believe in free speech if you have an opinion state it problem I suppose with that is too often I think what people feel and what they think they think is a fact and it doesn't quite work that way I've heard it referred to in alternative ways and I understand you know that people have their agenda I don't have a problem with that you know as to the controversy you know what I basically do is I just tell people look do your homework and if they did just that I don't think there would be a controversy and oftentimes I think they would prefer that I do their homework for them I'm not in a position to do that I don't even have access to the internet well you know what that's not a bad thing like I got to tell you you know I've been doing this for a couple of years now and I've had all sorts of things said about me and really you sit back and you just laugh people that really have no clue but they're trying to gain some traction you know on social media and they'll say whatever they say and they try to back it up with non-facts but just the way it goes you gotta have thick skin to be in this and I get it but I'll tell you what's really interesting to me you know you did 45 years for a crime you maintain your innocence yes and I have no reason to doubt that thank you my dad you know Sonny Francis received a 50-year prison sentence and did 40 years on that sentence and I will take it to my grave my dad was alleged to be a bank robber Mastermind a nationwide string of bank robberies and I'll take to my grave that he was innocent we spoke to every witness they recanted their testimony we gave him lie detector tests proved that they lied at the trial we could never get the conviction overturned and you know what what I tell people and what that shows me is that this system is not always Fair people have an agenda at times for whatever reason that they have you know my experience I only did eight years I visited my father for over 30 and accomplished other people so I know the system a lot of people in prison don't belong there we're in agreement you know in my particular case you talk about a polygraph now granted I was naive I'd never been in trouble never been arrested and you were you were like 20 years older yes 22 years old and just so that people know it was the conviction was of a double murder to individuals that allegedly were going to kidnap two little girls for ransom my role in that was to contact the father and let him know that their children his children were going to be kidnapped I don't care where you come from you don't mess with kids right yeah that's just the bottom line it um but in my case I made the phone call ultimately when they attempted to kidnap plot they were both murdered with their own weapons both of the the perpetrators yeah the perpetrators of the um the kidnap of the children but I went into when I was arrested to be honest with you I wasn't really that worried about it because I was naive enough to think having been raised with that Western ethos that all you had to do was go and tell the truth and it does not work like that you know you know I I understand completely when you talk about your father having been convicted of something you didn't do too often what happens in our court system is its personality contest it has nothing to do with the facts has nothing to do with truth or Justice as far as the prosecution is concerned in many many cases too many cases the ends justifies the means now that's unfortunately particularly true with black people Mexicans people of color they're called um but you also find it amongst the disenfranchised the poor you know those individuals who grew up in abject poverty for instance and if they don't have the means available to them you know to go up against the system which has means unlimited then they're at a real disadvantage I took a polygraph test I took two I got the highest plus scores in the history of poligraphy at that time FBI and the Department of Justice and they paid no attention to that because it's not admissible in court that's right uh but you know I took the polygraph tests in order to demonstrate that what I was saying was the truth not to offer it as the truth but that I was willing to do that should have had some bearing unfortunately it didn't so in the end I was convicted of a double homicide I maintained my innocence I went to prison and um that was an Awakening I'd run the mountains my whole life I grew up on a reservation and then lived with my Elder he was half Irish half Nest Pierce and he's actually the one that taught me my ways to speak my language dancing singing sweat lodge ceremony and the like and we traveled throughout the country doing just that Gatherings and he was very spiritual so with that and then coming into a controlled environment like jail or prison it was daunting to say the least and how old were you when you were 22 22 yeah and I I gotta I gotta ask you this yeah what I tell people all the time and they don't quite understand some of the most powerful people in our system are prosecutors yes and the reason being because they can conceal information they can lie they can frame somebody and even when that comes out nothing happens that's right there's no repercussions whatsoever they have nothing to ever be concerned about there are so many cases that I've uncovered and researched where prosecutors withheld information you know the whole bit I mean it runs again nothing happens oh I know and that now just here recently a new bill was signed by the governor relative to this very issue that if a prosecutor is shown to have withheld exculpatory evidence for instance that he or she can now be prosecuted they can now be president can't be prosecuted about time well it's long overdue it's about time prior to that they had what was called qualified immunity right and I'm dealing with a situation right now where I'm facing charges relative to EDD fraud and um while there's no truth to it that fact has actually become irrelevant it's the politics associated with that so I have a chief investigator for instance in this case who has gone to Witnesses and said don't get involved in this case now if I did that what would happen you see be in trouble you bet I would and that's what I'm talking about it's accountability and you know that's really what I'm looking for as it relates to this case I don't like the politics I don't like to have to jump through all the Hoops that I am but I'm willing to do that just to shed some light on what's Happening you know it's not just in this state this is Nationwide Mike let me ask you this because this is something that I've gotten some backlash from from some people but I want to ask your opinion on it I don't think my dad was a member of organized crime obviously Koza Nostra I was also and so on the street we were criminals no doubt about it we were engaging in illegal activities but I have maintained this I've said it time and time again I'll say it now and I'll take it again to my grave the government law enforcement prosecutors never have an excuse to break the law in order to get the law Breakers because if you allow them to do that then they can do it against anybody and they have yes and what I tell people is they have enough weapons enough laws in their favor enough money that if a criminal is out there go and get them the right way investigate them properly and if you can't then our system of justice says if you can't prove Beyond a reasonable doubt that a person is guilty then you must go free you know there was a lot of controversy during the O.J Simpson trial I've maintained this listen if the government didn't prove their case Beyond A Reasonable Doubt I don't care that he was guilty he should be freed because that's the protect action for all of us and I just you know having gone through the system and and and uh you know haven't had your issues what do you feel about that well I I hear what you're saying and what when you render it all down what you're really talking about is that law enforcement in general has a license to break the law and they use that license unfortunately now I'm not suggesting that all law enforcement is correct no of course yes sir of course I know some people in law enforcement that are stand-up individuals and just so you know I have many friends in law enforcement today and they wouldn't tolerate No the behavior of some that break the law yeah they're against it yes you know but it's that license you know that unfortunately invades the thinking of the individuals who hold that license and they abuse it you know that that idea of absolute power you know corrupts absolutely that's right and and I believe that and so what's required in my opinion is a check and balance upon that and how do you facilitate that you know I hear people say well you know you do that at the voting polls you know who you vote into office I'm sorry it doesn't work today it just doesn't particularly when you have individuals who are being elected into office who are coming into a corrupt system and and it's really a choice you know there are no answers in this there are only choices and I think that's true no matter what we're talking about um but I have a real passion if you will for shedding light on these very issues and you know how we address this as as a public not just here in California but here in the United States you know what it is what what is what are our ethics you know what code do we function by when we put a code of ethics in place relative to law enforcement and they don't abide by that then what's what's the remedy if they're being if they're receiving qualified immunity then where's the value they're not accountable you're right you see and that's the problem and they say well we need this it's like the the measures they take again you know the end ends justify the means the measures they take to bring about the prosecution of somebody toward conviction you know without any consideration towards exculpatory evidence or actually suppressing that exculpatory evidence is Criminal and it should be treated as criminal and prosecuted accordingly and I think that's the only thing that's going to place a dampener on what we're facing now as a society because in my opinion the corruption is rampant and we need to address it as a society you know not just these little pockets of activism I agree is as it's you know so often known so we have a form if you will a bully pulpit even as it relates to programs like this and I'm bringing up my own program I mentioned to you to do essentially the same thing it's it's not to take issue with government for the sake of taking issue with government so many issues you know racism I'm accused of being a white supremacist because I was a member of the Aryan Brotherhood and I was one of its leaders you see there's not a racist bone in my body never has been nonetheless they hear Aryan Brotherhood and they make that Association I can't fault them for that well I want you to explain that but before we do that I want to make it clear to all our viewers what Mike and I believe and I think I know you all have 15 minutes but I can see that you're very knowledgeable and very well learned and that's impressive having spent all that time in prison because I know many people that that come out of there are not in the same condition as you so it's impressive but I want to make this very clear we're not against law enforcement and we're not saying there shouldn't be law enforcement we're not anti-government as a matter of fact we're both patriotic we love this country but what we are saying those that engage in Behavior those in government or in law enforcement that engage in behavior that is actually illegal they should be held accountable because if they do it against the criminals they're going to do it against the people that are not criminals you give the government an inch they're going to take a yard and they never give it back so what we're saying is they should be held accountable to their actions when they themselves engage in behavior that is not legal so I want to make that clear but Mike very interesting I don't know if people really understand what the Aryan Brotherhood is maybe you can explain that because we have all we think of neo-nazis and everything else and white supremacists so yeah so because if you look at the Aryan Brotherhood today particularly nationally um you know they are the epitome of white supremacy the hate group if you will right and um and so you know it's warranted to look at them in that light and they should be looked at in that light I'm talking about when I first became a member back in the 70s that wasn't the issue you know you had Old Folsom and San Quentin and I ended up first in Old Folsom and you know you had that's a tough spot it is a tough spot it's one of the toughest yeah and so I was there with the leadership of the black gorilla family the Black Panthers the Mexican Mafia the Texas Syndicate you know and then of course the Aryan Brotherhood you know I was initially recruited by the Black Panthers declined that then I was recruited by the Aryan Brotherhood and I declined that but it was only when four Native Americans approached me and they said look brother we know you're an old res dog we live better in here than we ever did on the res note that resonated with me so what we were really talking about was control of our resources simply that you have a population of three thousand to five thousand individuals it's like a small City so you have numerous resources not the least of which so I actually became a member of the Aryan Brotherhood in order to control my environment why did you choose the Brotherhood I think because for Native Americans who were members of the Aryan Brotherhood approached and told me that they lived better inside the joint than they ever did on the rest and I grew up on the rest and dirt floors abject poverty I slept underneath the travel trailer for the first 12 years of my life practically I mean I was on and off the res I want to make that clear but I was what they call a res dog so they were Native Americans that were recruiting you into the Brotherhood yeah so you're not you don't have to be a white no you had Native Americans you had Samoans you had Hawaiians even Mexicans what you didn't have is you didn't have blacks and the reason that you didn't is because the blacks wouldn't allow it you see the black gorilla family was all black African-American black panthers not so much the leader that approached me with the Black Panthers was Hugo Yogi pinell and he was their fields marshal and he'd been with the Black Panther since 1970. he saw the potential in utilizing me I think within the system itself not as related to their resources but solely because of my physical promise you know I've been trained in martial arts I'd been in a number of altercations prior to arriving at Old Folsom and the inmate Grapevine The Prisoner Grapevine preceded my arrival there right so that was the motive behind recruiting me was that they would have another Warrior to do battle on their behalf toward their control of the resources within that environment now that's what the Aryan Brotherhood was doing that's what the Mexican Mafia was doing so they were moving product with the Mexican Mafia it was blacktard heroin you see with the whites of course and the Hell's Angels who were associated with the Airing Brotherhood let me ask you Godzilla the other way most of the time well you know it's it's interesting because I had a locker built into my cell where I kept alcohol so that when I had was paid a visit by the warden or the captain or other guards I was able to offer them a drink many of the guards back then ex-vietnam vets good men but were essentially lost when they returned to this country at the end of the Vietnam War and many of them looked for jobs within Corrections and founded those same individuals were also members of the Aryan Brotherhood and if they happened to be African-American black then they were members of the black gorilla family or the Black Panthers and so on if they were Mexican and they were members of mixing them off that's right and that's how it worked let me ask you this what was the uh maybe you can explain the the ideology of the Aryan Brotherhood back then I think control of the environment you know when you get into an ideology now they basically you know they had Frederick Nietzsche and they had Machiavelli by way of literature available to them yes interesting you know the prince of course yeah and anybody that's going to engage in politics whether it be prison or out here on the street is going to read Machiavelli well I'll tell you being a member of course in Austria was almost required reading to read the prince in there and that's when I read it and realized that was our ideology yes no doubt yeah you get that so you get the Ubermensch as it relates to tinichi you know and the irony I suppose in that is that in my opinion Nietzsche was a worm of a man he had this amazing philosophy as it related to the Ubermensch for instance you know the superman but he himself was a worm I mean he had nothing going for him you know as it relates to whether that be a code of ethics associated with being a warrior or anything else and so he was unable to exemplify the very thing that he was espousing as being the Superman that doesn't hold well with me if I'm going to embrace by way of emulation or otherwise someone's ideology then I want them to at least abide and live by that themselves and set that example so that I know that what I'm emulating is authentic and that was not the case with Frederick Nietzsche you can get into other individuals you can say that about Machiavelli um and so you know I agree with what you're saying nearest and so far as your organization adopting that by way of ideology it makes perfect sense particularly from a business standpoint you know that idea of being ruthless because in business particularly within organized crime you have to be ruthless it's required and the same holds true within a prison environment so you have that because you have politics like anyplace else you have individuals who are attempting to usurp your power base your power base of course is the economy that you're able to generate relative to that power base let me ask you this it's a group that at least people perceive it to be anti-semitic yeah is that true well it isn't it well it may be no you know and so I can address it as it relates to now that would be disingenuous on my part but back then but back then no I mean it's the primary leader back then was uh um TD Bingham and TD's Jewish Jewish you know one of the first things I noticed on him was a big old star David tattooed on him he actually saw me looking at it and said I'm Jewish but I'm not a practicing Jew and but I'm proud of it and he was and there was no reason for him not to be in this day and age relative to the anti-semitic characteristic I think it applies tenfold you know that also applies to I think any hate group that exists in this country today whether it's a white supremacy or some form of militant group you know we talk about ideology hate seems to be the primary goal on the part of those groups by way of how they motivate themselves you know I have a gathering coming up with African-American National Rifle Association in Burbank and I'm going to do a workshop with them and the thing that they're primarily interested in is the hate that's generated towards them not necessarily racism but the hate and where that hate comes from I mean we have um obviously a history of racism in this country and it still prevails unfortunately you know we hear a lot of talk about that oh we've come a long way relative to racism but we really haven't fortunately I'm not a black man that's facing the charges that I'm facing today because if I were I'd have three strikes against me already one the fact that I'm black two the fact that I Come From A Distant friend disenfranchised community you see and that I probably grew up in poverty or abject uh Poverty of some kind and the only resources available to me were moving drugs working in prostitution whatever it may be so you know that's essentially three strikes against me if that was the case yeah you know I understand that Mike and I think racism obviously exists in our country but you know I have to go back to the fact that today from the top from our government that's what we're hearing is racist I think they're fueling they're fueling I agree hatred and racism in this country by talking about it all the time everything is racist I heard the wife of some prominent guy said that swimming is now racist because blacks don't have an opportunity to swim or they don't have the availability of pools to swim in I mean they're taking it way too far I mean it's it's and you know people think about this they're uneducated they're ignorant I don't mean that in a demeaning way they just don't know and all of a sudden everything becomes racist everything and I I think they're fueling it from the top there's got to be a better way to handle it well I would agree with you they do feed it yeah you know but it's it's the motive behind feeding it and I'm really interested in see if it's if it's because they're interested in maintaining their power base and I think it is absolutely you see then we have an issue and how do we approach that unfortunately at the root of all that we're talking about our economics that's what it comes down to absolutely and that's the power base that we're confronted with so really it's about privilege see where does that privilege come from it comes primarily from the patriarchal white man type Society um you know I'm certain I know other people that would Express that far more eloquently than I am but that's the bottom line it's not that I'm against patriarchy that isn't the issue but look what we're facing by way of just human rights in this country the mere fact that we have to put on the ballot equal rights for women are you serious exactly you know and it's not that long ago the blacks were just given the vote or women for that matter I agree with that let me ask you this you get recruited by the Aryan Brotherhood and then at some point in time you become a leader I do how is that a year it takes about a year it was nothing more than just my ability to fight I mean that's really the bottom line um it would be one thing to say well you know I had this extraordinary business sense that wasn't it at all I couldn't read or write and so I had to First teach myself to read and write but it was my ability to fight is really what it came down to it's amazing how different both systems are the federal and the state especially here in California I know it's a rough it's a rough State system here in California I know a lot of guys that have gone through it and you know just to survive that amount of time is it's pretty impressive I'll say that let me ask you this because I know you know viewers are always fascinated with something they don't know about and the prison system is something that people just you know they have all they've seen movies they hear things but they're so fascinated by it in 45 years and this is probably a difficult question loaded question because you saw so much what was the worst situation you've ever experienced if you can get one that probably more than one but there actually are a number I mean to see life taken uh impacts upon you and I've seen a lot of Bloodshed a lot of murder so you want to remember that when I came into prison violence was currency and a life could be taken for a pack of Le Max a pack of camels taylormades and that's pretty cheap you know what I've always said Mike with people whether a person is innocent or guilty the penalty is going to prison it's being in prison you don't have to punish them further when they're in there that's the punishment being in prison and so yeah there's got to be some humaneness about it I guess maybe because we went through the system we feel that way but uh I also I spoke in front of the Senate staff 9 11. and they talked about prison reform and all that and I told a couple of senators I said look do you care about your constituents well yeah of course we do well then why would you send a person to prison not rehabilitate them have them come out in the street when they're around other inmates that haven't been rehabilitated have them come out on the street and expect them to be productive citizens it makes no sense it's absolutely illogical it's illogical you see it is and they whether they get it or not they really don't care I agree that's the problem that is the problem is that they don't care you know it's unfortunately it's perhaps a poor analogy but it's like cancer you see until someone close to us dear to us a loved one is inflicted with cancer we don't think about it but when that happens suddenly we're we're researching cancer and how we can help this loved one and so on and incarceration is like that unless a loved one is incarcerated or is in somehow in trouble with the law we don't think about it you see because we think well law enforcement will handle that and unfortunately it's that license that has created the problem you see they've been given carte blanche and it's only in recent decades that we've seen anything done about it but certainly not enough so you believe in Rehabilitation inside obviously absolutely yeah I I use myself as an example you know it's it's one thing to say that I'm innocent I didn't commit this crime but when I went into prison I joined a gang and I was involved in activities that I regret people have asked me for do you regret anything and I've always responded no but I do regret that you know I regret the fact that I put myself in a position where I was so violent that I was shot 22 times that's my choice nobody else's there came a point in time when I had to redeem myself relative to my own character my own code of conduct my own values and I set about to do that now the blessing in that is that I am married to a marvelous woman who has been supportive of me for decades now we share that yes I have the same it wasn't if it wasn't for mine I'd be dead or in prison for the rest of my life okay so you and me both yeah that's really what it comes down to therein lies my true power base you see that ability to receive instruction Direction encouragement you know and to be loved well let me ask you this transition and you obviously have undergone one did it happen in prison or did it happen I know you got out in 2019 right so it's not not too long ago no did you start to make this transition while you were in prison I did you know I I had attempted to make it I was faced with two truths what I call two truths Michael and that was the life that I was living and the idea that the organization that I was one of the leaders of was going to start taking innocent life and um I couldn't accept that so I had to make a choice I made the choice to step away but because I was responsible for building that organization giving it an infrastructure as it relates to organized crime I felt a responsibility to contend with that so that what they were planning would not continue that they would not continue to victimize innocent people to kill children to kill women to kill elders and that's where the group was engaging that's what they were engaged in and I couldn't condone that would not have condone that so I stepped away and I began cooperating with law enforcement but I didn't cooperate with law enforcement with the idea that I wanted something or that I wanted a reduction in sentence I did an additional 38 years after I began cooperating with law enforcement there was no 30 pieces of silver there you see I did what I thought was the right thing to do so that process began the problem was is that I didn't really have the intellectual and emotional fortitude facilitate that by myself the blessing is is that when I met my wife not too long after I stepped away so just to clarify you met your wife while you were in prison yes okay yeah she she's been with me almost 20 years now and um she's the one and essentially said to me um this is what I see and you have a choice to make because we were just friends but she said if you want to be my friend then this is what I need you to hear we have that in common too and it floored me it did and she said choose and she put it to me one day into visiting room just like that choose you know however you choose fine but you won't be with me and I said okay I made my choice mine was a little bit different because I've maintained this and I think you're going to agree I don't know any family of any member of the mafia that hasn't been devastated including my own and not my wife in case but my mother 33 years without a husband sister dies of an overdose of drugs brother a drug addict 25 years eventually became an informant turned against my father but my father back in prison once he was out he testified against him son testified against the father a younger sister 41 years old died of cancer early she wasn't mentally stable and every family of every member of that life I know similar situations so when I married my wife when I met her and I fell in love with her I said how am I going to bring these young girls 20 years old how am I going to bring this girl into that situation because I was such a Target it's only a matter of time before I either go to jail or get killed in our family we had three Wars we were very warring family a lot of guys got killed I said so it's going to be one or the other why am I going to take her into this so in different ways your wife you know had you make a choice and thank God for that and mine it was kind of my choice but if she was a little bit more knowledgeable she would have given me the same Choice as your did I'm sure well it was one way or the other the way the term I use is she pulled my covers she really did and you know the fact that she's worked in mitigation for the last couple of decades you know she works with death row prisoners and their families and so she's no pilgrim I mean she knows the ins and outs of prison she goes into prisons I mean she's gone into cages on death row with individuals that I wouldn't go in a cage with I mean that's just the truth of it yeah um but the main thing is is that I respect her I admire her and um I love her you see it's it's that authenticity that I'd never had you know in a relationship you know truth of the matter is I've never had a relationship until I met her so I come from a matriarchal society culturally and but I was raised by men and that was the difference so emotionally I didn't have that intelligence fortunately she had the patience and it took extraordinary patience believe me to guide me through the development of my own emotional intelligence I could just imagine what what a process that was well essentially what she was dealing with was a thug that's the bottom line you know I addressed everything physically you know I was so stoic in my emotion that I I suppressed it completely so she was assigned she was working on a death penalty case against the Aryan Brotherhood it was a RICO prosecution and the ATF and the FEDS had tried to get me to testify that and I told them no I will not they said well okay then we can still consider you on our side I said no you can't I'm My Own man you know I've never gone into court for the prosecution or the defense I go in as a witness I tell my truth whatever that may be and that's it you know I'm not there to um persuade the jury that this man is guilty or otherwise I understand that because today a lot of the Warriors social media Warriors or labeling people as a ratness and that and they don't understand they don't know the system they don't understand it and um you know I've always said this until you walk in somebody's shoes don't pass judgment because most of the people that make these allegations or if they were faced for one second with something that would jeopardize them they would it would be a whole different story Michael you know as well as I do that within organized crime particularly that the idea of an informant or a rat is frowned upon in other words those organizations put that information out there you know it's brainwashing relative to that so that individuals will not give up the game exactly that's what it's about see now you can say well that's disloyal well it depends on where your loyalties lie as a human being and you have that decision to make for those individuals that received something for what they did that's not for me to judge you know as it relates to myself and only myself I know that I wanted to do what I did and continue to do because I believed it was the right thing to do now where my wife is concerned she was sent to me because I testified in other cases she was in uh she had a client in the Regal prosecution of the Aryan Brotherhood he was an alien Brotherhood member he sent her to see me to get me to recant my testimony so she did due diligence she did her job she came to the prison where I was at I was in the hole and they brought me out and we sat down and she told me why she was there and we talked for about 15 minutes about her client and I said under no circumstances am I going to recant and I explained to her the same thing I just explained to you I'm not a witness for the prosecution or to the defense feel free to call me but with that or Consequences you may not like what I have to say because I'm going to tell the truth but that was the beginning of our friendship so that was way back when it was a long time ago right but that's how I met her and so you actually whenever it was that you testified you actually did another 38 years in prison yes so there was no bonus for anything that you did it was actually Michael my life became much much worse because now I can imagine yeah well I'm now I'm dealing with a corrupt Administration you see now they're afraid that because I was dealing with them when I was leader of the Aryan Brotherhood that I'm going to give them up and I really had no intention of doing that's none of my damn business that's not why I was doing what I was doing I did not want to see children and women in Elders executed assassinated that was my my sole goal but now I have administrators sending tutors at me Torpedoes guards to take me within one inch of my life and they did you know they get me chained up and they would beat me within just that hair the only thing that actually saved me I was choking on my own blood as they were beating me and I spit it at them and told them that's all you got no I don't know where the hell that come from it was it was nothing but bravado nothing but because they had me but the fact of the matter is they stopped why they stopped I don't know you see but my life became far more difficult as a result of stepping away from the brand than I ever could have imagined because of the corruption they wanted me to go into court and testify a certain way and I told them no I will not do that you see I spent that night at this particular case I'm talking about locked up in a cell with a bunch of other prisoners fighting for my life but that was the setup because I had not done what they wanted me to do and I've encountered that numerous times I've been set up many times in that capacity how much uh hold time did you do 30 years how many 30 years 30 years in the hole Yeah I did almost three and uh it's a long time it was enough for me well you know I I say it and I'll say it again you know whether it's one day or 30 years it's the same yeah because the impact's upon you the same way it's an attempt to dehumanize you and to deprive you when I say dehumanize you of your Humanity and unfortunately for a lot of individuals it does just that yeah yeah it strips them over their Humanity you know to a list a degree Mike who's spending you know in a federal system I spent exactly a you know we count the days and the hours 29 months and seven days and I saw a lot of guys began without even repeating it just did not do well no not too well in that they don't it takes a strong mind Michael it does it does and for me it was all about my faith you know I jumped into my faith and uh you know obviously I wanted to get home to my wife and kids so but you know I I have told the system for young people I'm dead set against solitary confinement yes because it'll destroy them I mean the fact that you come out here we can have a uh a very intelligent conversation after spending that time I mean I applaud that I mean thank you it's not easy not easy at all well you know that firsthand see that's not something that you have to imagine because you've lived it yeah unfortunately you know I wish you had not but the fact of the matter is we both have and so we be we bring that body of experience to the dialogue that we're having right now and I think it has value by way of educating the public yes you see about that very thing because it is inhumane you know to put an individual not just in a cage but solitary as you know is something entirely different yes all you have is a hole in the floor that's it that's it it's called Bedrock yep for that reason but you know there are a number of ways that we could go here relative to you know how did we discuss that you know how do we come to some kind of resolution because I'm a great believer and let's provide a solution what is a solution as it relates to that I think talking about it first and foremost so that people begin to understand you know just exactly what it is you know it's nothing nice nothing nice at all and you know it was my spirituality like your faith They carried me through you know I I can remember um taking the shells of fruit and drying it in the air vent and then waiting for seeds from another fruit and then sowing that together to make myself a rattle so that I could sing my songs that kept me grounded is he literally grounded in the mother you see the opportunity to sing my songs to pray you see and to know the value of that regardless of where I was at had extraordinary value so it's that connection in making that connection it becomes important that's why I believe so strongly and providing that to individuals who are incarcerated the opportunity to attend church or synagogue whatever it may be I agree you know Mike the problem with that is I've experienced this and the rate of recidivism as you probably know could be as high as 60 to 70 percent especially in the state prisons a little even more a little one time 100 yeah I can understand that but in when they introduced the faith-based program Christian program yes where men were discipled inside and then discipled again when they were outside the recidivism rate went down to five percent fact and yet the system wasn't uh didn't they didn't welcome this with open arms how do you how do you figure that I did unfortunately was they recognized freedom of religion as it relates to that even to an incarcerated individual so by the law by the Constitution they were allowed to provide those programs but there was no Essence to it none whatsoever it is it isn't to say that those individuals who came into Minister the to the prisoners were not sincere they were yeah but they were overwhelmed absolutely overwhelmed they did not have the resources and by my estimation still do not have the resources to provide a Ministry to individuals who are legitimately seeking that well I'll tell you this I was in Angola prison a few times I went in and speak spoke to the inmates every one of them was doing life yeah life without parole most of them but those that were in that discipleship program I've never witnessed such peace among men incarcerated as I had with them it was so impressive to me and the real issue that we're talking about here and it's oftentimes becomes an elephant in the room is love you see that's what we're talking about love of God love of country love of family it's love yeah but also love of self see and that isn't discussed enough unfortunately and it needs to be you know we myself I say we myself included you know we adhere to this um what's oftentimes referred to as toxic masculinity yeah and you turn a lot of that it's an issue that has to be addressed yeah it really does you know it I don't take a front by it why would I you know my identity is intact you see and for those individuals where that is not the case let's have a conversation let's talk and find out why yeah you know the problem today Mike there's a group of society I'm not going to label and name them that get offended when men like us want to tell men how to be men yes it's like that's offensive it is it should be complementary because if men or men that group of people are going to be treated better not worse but better but somehow they've got it reversed and it's not complex no it really isn't it's very simple you know if you can start with the foundation of love and what that means as a man yeah you see in the authenticity associated with that you know one's sense of Ethics they don't call it a code if you will there's nothing wrong with that but whatever label you want to on it as long as you understand that what we're really talking about here is self-efficacy you see I look every day I'll sit here today and talking to you and I'll say wow I like that about Michael I'm going to take that in I'm going to make it my own and I'm going to emulate that I don't hesitate to do that why would I I agree especially if it makes me not only a better man but a better human being and that's what we're talking about is our Humanity I I agree you know and the Bible tells us you know love your neighbor as you love yourself and that's not a narcissistic love that's just the respect of yourself as a human being and you share that with others let me let me ask you this Mike how are you received now you're obviously out there quite a bit and like I said I'm not you know throwing bouquets but you're obviously very well spoken very intelligent very well learned how are people receiving the message receiving your experience and what you've been through I think 99 positive you know you always have that one percent that are going to take issue for whatever reason and again I don't mind I believe in freedom of speech and if there's a problem it's their problem not my problem that's really what it comes down to but I'm excited about the opportunity you know I understand people want to hear War Stories and everything else and I don't have a problem telling stories if you can draw a parallel with that that has not only a reference point but value toward their understanding of what I'm talking about I'm not advocating violence I'm not going to glorify violence you know I made a very stupid statement once in an interview with New Yorker magazine I said you know I deplore violence but I'm very good at it now that was true nonetheless it was a stupid thing to say you see because it can be taken out of country received wrong yes it can be received wrong and that's what I don't want you see I I encourage people to ask questions you know about what what it's like in prison you know if they want to know what it's like to be in a knife fight I don't have a problem telling them about that because hopefully that's something they'll never have to experience you know it's not a good thing but I teach I'm getting ready to do an exhibition relative to my style of fighting but I'm primarily interested in women learning how to defend themselves today is so important it's a huge concern of mine you see we unfortunately live in a predacious society and I want my wife and all women for that matter to be able to protect themselves so that they're not victimized by predators I agree there's a fellow my name Andrew Tate you know who that is yes yeah big influencer and and somebody I know and you know he's got a similar message he wants men to be men and you know he was ostracized for it but I think he was accepted more from people but he he was disagreeing with women trying to defend themselves because he saw them physically as the weaker sex not emotional ideas but physically and he said women shouldn't try to defend themselves because it's not going to work and I disagree because if a woman can defend herself not everybody on the street that would approach them knows how to fight right and if you have a little bit more of a skill in that regard you can help yourself a lot but I agree with preparedness yeah you see if they're prepared for something some catastrophic event yeah then they're better able to deal with that right once confronted with it right and that's really what we're talking about here now my wife is four foot ten you see I'm no longer six four I think I've dropped a half an inch but let me tell you something you know there's no doubt in my mind that if she wanted to she could put me down well that's good yes it is that's a good thing see but it goes beyond that it's it's taking other means you know um being aware of your environment you know not being that's so important it is not being hyper Vigilant but being vigilant yeah you know about your environment um and there's a certain I think uh naivete on the part of society in general you know when it comes to violence and you think well we're only going to encounter violence when we go into certain neighborhoods not anymore but I I will tell you there's something that you don't need to know but I will tell you've been given a platform when you've been there and you've done that and you speak from experience people listen because obviously you have that experience you've been through it it's more so than if a teacher is trying to teach you something that they've never experienced and I find that way when I go into prison and I talk to some of these gang bangers and I tell them listen don't tell me you can't leave a gang I left the biggest gang in the world yeah there's a way to do that you know so I just want to encourage you just just keep doing what you're doing and uh because you've got a great platform you've got a great message or obviously again I said it for the third time very intelligent and you're using it the right way and I mean that well I hope you don't mind that I'm going to emulate you I mean I do watch your podcast I do watch your conversations I I like your thinking I like your approach to the subject matter that you talk about and I'm going to emulate that you know I'm I'm going to take that and have taken that and I'm going to use that myself toward my own success and getting that message out there because I like what you're doing well I appreciate that and I have no doubt that you'll have success in that regard I really mean that and hey we just do what I do you know in my case I always I always believe that to those who have been given much much is expected in return and through all the you know challenges that we've had through our life I happen to be pretty blessed and when people can see that and want to use it for their benefit it's it's the best thing that you could experience this is what I do know about myself I am a servant and that's my sole focus is to be a servant to be of service to others in some capacity my wife tells me all the time you did 45 years in prison for something you didn't do nonetheless you did 45 years in prison let's use that experience towards the service of others right on there you have it Mike Thompson very very interesting uh conversation that we had and uh you know you get a sense of people I think he's very sincere and I really do believe that he wants to use his experiences 45 years in prison been in the Aryan Brotherhood all the things that he experienced I could have talked to him for 10 hours I'm sure he has that much to tell but I got a good sense about him and I think he really wants to use those experiences to help him ladies you see the impact his wife had on him the impact my wife had on me it's amazing I always say what would we do without these good woman behind us so I applaud his wife for that but he's starting a podcast I advise you to tune in you're going to hear some stories I think that'll be entertaining but most of all there'll be a good message because he really has a heart to do good for people and to come out of prison after 45 years experience everything that he's experienced and come out intelligent with his emotions intact that's really an accomplishment so give them a shot you know Mike Thompson and uh watch for his podcast so that's it for today how do I always leave you same way be safe you heard what Mike said ladies always be aware of your surroundings very very important today be healthy I got into that in the beginning of this video you know how I feel God bless every one of you I mean that and thank you all for supporting me on YouTube appreciate it very much be safe be healthy God bless you all and yes I'll see you next time take care [Music] oh [Music]

Channel: Michael Franzese

Views: 1,935,838

Keywords: michael, franzese, michael franzese, mafia, mob, mobster, mob boss, mafia boss, capo, caporegime, colombo, colombo family, colombo mafia, american mafia, italian mafia, prison, federal prison, prison gangs, sitdown with michael franzese, Michael Thompson, Controversial Michael Thompson, Michael Thompson Prison Story, Aryan Brotherhood, Aryan Brotherhood Leader, Aryan Brotherhood Leader Michael Thompson, Former Leader of Ayran Brotherhood, Michael Thompson 45 years in Prison

Id: g6VdBzOX4Yo

Length: 52min 32sec (3152 seconds)

Published: Thu Dec 22 2022