Fighting Gypsies, 40 Years Doorman & 1,000 Street Fights: Norman Buckland

[ __ ] would you have back down at Lenny McLean I wouldn't back down for no man that's the honest truth so how many fights do you reckon you've had in the streets I don't know I've heard in the thousands the belt always sure give me like bless itself that was the governor belt wouldn't it yeah I love Roy Shaw and what was your career like in the unlicensed fighting billingman feet escalated his neck he dislocated his neck in a fight but he was a terrible horrible trying to kill me how do steroids make your mind feel I started hurting people you know it wasn't me at all like you know what I mean all the death threats mixed up and people being killed and shot and suicides even my best friends are killing themselves like it got too too bad like and I really needed I needed to be put away [Music] Norman welcome to the show mate rock and roll Hey listen that's I've only picked that up a mile well my grandson at Barnet Fair he used to give it all that light you know what I mean it's going back nearly a you know after the second world war probably even before the first world war then I heard a um who was it now the governor Roy Shaw Lenny McLean like and it's always stuck at me you know what I mean all I can do is shout it out so I could never be the men they are but you know what I mean I've seen it all it's been fun no this is quality mate let's let's roll all the way back where did you grow up and how did you become such a notorious Street Fighter oh yeah Aylesbury I was born where I live now like on in the same property as I was born in like I don't know if it was in the mobile home or the house but I was born somewhere uh grendon Underwood that's where I spent a bit of time I was uh um I spent a bit of time in Woodhill there it was the actual prison I was actually born where I ended up for a few you know for a little time so you were born in the prison you say no I was born in um grendon Underwood that's okay that's where the prisons are that's where grendon Underwood prison is and uh Spring Hill the open prison is like you know what I mean so it's sort of home from home and I got put there like yeah and you you said you're in the same house now as you were all these years what it is my my gran owned the big house she owned a big house she had the Bungalow built next to it was on her ground and she give the the else uh she she she bought it to give the piece of ground and the The Bungalow to my uncle like and she said look he's greedy like the rest of the property is mine it's not his and that went on for years like you know what I mean and my dad died my nan died and she at the end left me the property okay and he's come up with his deeds no one knew he hadn't there was no Deeds like he's come up with these Deeds with these signatures on night and it wasn't her signature my uncle Glenn was alive I went to see him he said I took him to court he said that's not his secretary he said no you're on and that's not my signature lie but because I was a lecturer and I wasn't educated like they they got thousands out of me anyway let's go on with it okay what was what was childhood like for you mentally [ __ ] like I couldn't read or write but I loved everyone I come out I you know what I mean I wanted to be a monk as a child I loved everything you know what I mean animals flowers people my mum was from Cork Cork City like she'd come over after the war with my grandfather and and uh Mario Sullivan was my grandmother and uh Sullivan Moro Sullivan they did like a drink like but they come over I didn't realize until my daughter looked it up you can look it up and files what's happened to the family now and the rest of his family when he come to England they went to America and she contacted them and they must have went to Alice Island and from all their life because and she contacted them and they said yeah we're we're related lie and she said did we didn't know that the patio Salon was the brother what never come so it's funny I've got a family over this family we all got family all over well we don't know but for you as a kid though in school what was school life like for you were you did you find it easy to learn did you play sport what was it what was it like [ __ ] it's useless even now even comes across even I know I shouldn't laugh at myself it was wrong it hurt like but even cross-country the girls used to overtake me like you know what I mean and he I remember they wouldn't let me play the the bat and the bull Cricket golf was it golf Cricket which ones were the stumps in that long Cricket live and they wouldn't let me play the school used to pick out even at football teams everyone would pick their boys and the other boys and I was always lost no one picked me and if it was Christmas they would stick me in the gold because it was the muddiest place like and of course I was to get full of I I had trouble learning I just couldn't read or write it come out years later what it was I didn't know but um when did it come out when you realize you couldn't read or write how old were you roughly well when I was in prison like yeah we had this uh there was teachers there were everything in prison you know especially wood ill how old were you when you went to prison I must been about 30 the early 90s it must have been I should imagine just just when a night 30 did you say what was your what was your word well Norm when you were growing up did you find out that you were a strong boy did you know how to have a tear up what set you off there no I was soft as [ __ ] and odd soft as light so I was I think it was in Spain when uh when I used to get a kick in going to school like I was all right when my brother was there we got spent sent the spine as children like you know what I mean hold on hold on you got sent to Spain as children yeah but my mum likes he'd uh the Irish side she was like a viking light she was as white as a ghost like with this great big beehive and she must have been about um five foot six and she used to wear a reels so she looked about six foot six like you know what I mean and she had a bad temper when she'd had a drink like you know what I mean and the the old man was quiet he's five foot four but he come from a fighting family the bucklands and the Coopers and travelers and uh Benson's and The Travelers at the the Gypsies and no the the Jews were the bensons it was a mixed flurry of the family like you know what I mean he was a he was a nice fella my mum was a lovely woman but um I don't actually took beatings as a child or her father or she had the same as what I had like she couldn't read all right either and it used to make a really bad tempered light you know and they couldn't live together so I was as soft as anything and I think my old man wanted to hard me up so I got sent over to Spain to live with my grandma with my brother hello how old are you we was about seven or eight years old life we're about 18 months okay Costa Blanca yeah it's just like the ride from uh alley Kansas yeah and what was that like for you knowing you're going to live with your your nan at that time well it weren't too bad because it was only for two weeks I wondered why my mum was crying she was crying like obviously you know I've got the elbow didn't I yeah I'm Spanish elbow but what a lovely place to get the elbow like the Spanish people for a couple of weeks yeah there was no coming okay it was a one-way ticket and how long were you how old were you until you came back how long did you stay there for I kept coming and going all the time I mean I'd have family it would be lovely family coming over there my cousin's me aunties my uncles and I've just lost my uncle Danny he died last week didn't he Danny Buckland from Aylesbury and it was a picture of him like I know what horse and wagon and uh it was a traveler's side of him like you're not a beautiful light you know did you say did you say your old man was a traveler what it was was the grandmother her father was a traveler okay and she got brought up with her grandparents in the East end and they were Jews I'm surprised how many Jews come from the East end light and uh she married um bucky bucky Alfie Buckland he come from kentish town or Camden town there to get Market on Camden Market and I was surprised how other Jews still with their students still own a lot of London you know the Jews and she was she'd lived through the first the second world war she used to talk about the Boer War as well and she used to have this thick light and I don't know I used to go down the dump light when he said don't the ravish and catch mice I was an animal lover and bring them home I was all right when I kept them in a tin and a little glass swing over the top it's when I kept them in cardboard boxes they kept chewing out oh it was crazy like she used to beat me with this thick light who did your name bless her really yeah but I loved her it was okay she she come from the she's brought up by her grandparents and we're talking probably 17th for 18th century like you know what I mean she was born late in the 18th century so were you growing up with the traveling community no it's funny but I did see I used to hang out with Travelers for some reason what happened this is crazy I remember she used to cry watching World at War if you can imagine yourself like watching World at War late 60s the 60s was the first I ever went over to Spain for three months when I was about six or seven years old and I went down in the port like and had the bulls running about down the port it was fantastic like you know and even then like you know what I mean I could get on one of the boats they used to put me on one of the boats and watch the balls and when they used to get near the harbor the boys used to jump in and sometimes the balls would follow and up the town El Pueblo el puerto Pueblo that had the Bulls at night time they'd have gas gas canvases on their back and like fire coming out of tubes like from their horns and you'd be watching them light and they'd toss people in the airline people's clothes just go on fire and I'm sure there was deaths like you know what I mean and I like the Wild Side you know what I mean I felt wild with the Spanish I suppose it was a gypsy in me or something and I liked it but um we got sent back over there when I was about seven and eight my brother was 18 months older I mean he was tough but brother was a tough boy he eventually went on to box for England like his name Elfie Buckland okay he he's a Mason now so I've got to keep him out of things because they're they're funny handshakes and all that like you know um but I know in the Masons they've had criminals before and then they're like you know and oh that's the why that's the way it goes bless him he's done well he keeps his nose clean now and good you know he's brushed up a lot of things what was your world like going up into 14 15 16 17 18s to earn money what was your movements I was I was working down in Spain as a kid like every time I come back every six months or a year I'd come back for a little while maybe six months or a year my uncle Danny on the market fruit and veg needs to take me up to uh spitfield Market yeah and I used to go up there and uh you still see them shaping up like because that's the East end and it's a bit filled market and you see the pub there Jack the Ripper because he used to do the poor East down there Jack the Ripper down there another bloke called Jack Flash whatever his name was then he had the the first world Warner second world war they they planted it they were bombing out why was the East End is it because it had factories in there but they spanked the East End didn't they with bombs and he wasn't only uh only the East End like it was it was London like yeah trying to block off the docks weren't they yeah because I think that's where a lot of uh all the ships are coming in you know why that's where all the tourists were coming in that's just a lot of the British like they say they're English but we I mean before the Ice Age the England was England there was no one living there and it's because of the Ice Age they come over from Europe and the the Pakistan I mean like India they come over it's the the mainly the the um Romanian gypsies come from India like you know what I mean and uh the Jews they come from out you know what I mean it's it's and originally from there they come from Africa it's history it's really I used to love history yeah but I don't because I go on and people don't know or they know too much and I don't know it gets confused it's good because if they don't know yeah I can come out I guess I'll get someone in history they can give me they'll be writing in there he's not right there we don't come from Africa we're covering the North Pole tell me tell me when you first started fighting I got levered on the beach by a German woman I couldn't work out I was saying to my grandmother how come it's it's like 20 just over 20 years after the war and they've got these great big Villas these great big mansions and the these great big Mercedes and I said didn't they lose the war like you know what I mean and there was parts of Germany completely flattened I mean Russia took a big chunk of Germany off them um French took over a part of Germany Britain took over a part of Germany I mean even Canada took after a part of Germany so I thought they were completely bankrupt I thought they were finished like but they I don't know if it's the Nazis or I don't have that buried gold somewhere but I was I was on the beach my grandma was there my auntie Josie was there like and obviously they come from the East End and my grandmother used to tell me like when I used to watch World and Action like she used to cry line spitting us and it was Hitler she hated I didn't know someone could hate someone so much and I said why have you got it in for a minute I didn't realize we come from Gypsies and Jews like you know and she's saying when you come out the lines like you she used to hear that the dog's howl but that must be the sign the Asylum do you ever get out with with the the the police wagons go past and asylums go off of your dog's hell like you know what I mean and it must have been in the silence what set the dog the sirens the sirens for the uh on their bills yeah yeah okay one of those silence to get the people down like they're for a bum bombshell thing okay I mean I wasn't alive then so I don't know so when did you first start fighting when did you realize that you're a good fighter when did you start working the doors a work a 10 no yeah I know it's crazy yeah even the fellow who wrote my book he said I can't put that down I said that's my true fly I said and everything he wanted to know like I'd say well phone him out or phone him up phone himself and he'd check everything out like you know he's written a few books before but he said you had you had a fight with firewood and you've done them all I said yeah I said don't you believe me like he said well I've been talking to your brother and I talked to his mate and I talk to someone else I said it was like that I said but half the time they were pissed like or on drugs or something I said when they're on speed you had a little bit more trouble with them because they used to go down and get back up oh there were murdered on speed they were when did you first start working the doors what age were you 10 10 bed Grove Pavilion you're working the doors at the age of ten yeah yeah with my brother great big dickly boys we used to have like that at the age of 10 at the age of 10 yeah and this is what I said who ripped my book darling where big row Pavilion that's an Ellsbury okay but he's been with dad's disco a Friday Saturday Night disco light I mean that that would be flipping Slade and Gary Glitter and and flipping I don't know you know what I mean it was but he he would look after us like you know what I mean he I think he he sent me over to Spain to be brought up with my ground because I was a softy like you know what I mean did you get toughened up do you think about me yeah she she would whack me about with a walking stick like because I was a mummy's boy she didn't like she she she loved a boy it was Alfie Alfie okay she loved that boy which is your brother my dad oh your dad okay and my brothers yeah yeah and my son's called healthy my son's called Alfie as well it's not a lovely neighborhood yeah so when do you attend on the doors work at your old man's place as you were getting older you were realizing you were getting bigger and stronger yeah I 14 I was full-time I was full-time that was the uh Bucks County show now I'll go I was there and that's when I started moving about and I think I was doing the under Civic Center I was doing the under 18s discos up there and what sort of what do you remember what sort of year we're talking here are we talking in the 80s 70s 70s 80s like 70. okay like 70s and you've been working the doors for over 40 years 50 years yeah about 50 years yeah yeah I can remember like uh who was in there oh all the old [ __ ] groups used to be fantastic like basically rollers no that come later but first it was it was slain I love Slade I used to love listening to Slayer and uh um or our Elton John money and Rod Stewart and yeah you know what I mean it was it was a great Legend yeah it was a great you know yeah yeah he was fantastic like it was uh the Disco and the old man used to look after us but probably was a bit Andy like I was a more of a gentle knighted person when did you start when did you start getting into your first fights on the door where people were wanting to have a tear up with you and your brother so well then when I had 10 years ago I usually like to get a clip around here I wouldn't like a little brother like and if it was anyone bigger like they'd get a clip around here off my dad like yeah okay one Elfie bucked into another round they're all in trouble the Granddad was the the tough one from kentish town canned yeah kenish Town your granddad yeah he thought he used to fight and this is the gospel because I've been told by a lot of people like but I'm a dad and my dad never lied I'm a grandmother and uh Easter Barnett fairy used to fight are these calling the governor there Barnett fire and when he used to get in the ring he'd want to fight anyone so I was really impressed like I was taken in by there and she said when he was 14 and there was a fella there whipping his horse line I suppose they had horses I thought I'd say it's all show or anything and he got in the paper because he took the had a guy at the Geezer pushed the geyser took the whip off the geyser and started whipping the Visa and they put it in in the paper and everything like this there and the other light but I believe my grandfather wasn't and this goes on now because going home like one of my son's got two dogs A French French Bulldogs my daughter's got a husky another son's got another dog another parrot family parrot they've all got animals around there and I think they'll come from a grandfather he used to have grounds all the time right you know what I mean and it's surprising what I love a bit of History I grew up I grew up with uh cockatoos we used to have pet monkeys with the alsatians dopamine oh we got we had the lot yeah carrots canaries I think it was I think it was a London East London thing yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah my granddad my dad all these animals around and then my kids as well all those animals around yeah and my uncles and aunties I just lost my last uncle Danny so because they've just got let's just roll back a bit here 18 to 30. you got banged up at the age of 30 didn't you yeah what was your life like from the age of 18 as a proper adult to 30. can you remember I yeah it was difficult for me to get a job I was always on the door I got a bit of work on the building site um us us the weekends with a door like everywhere like Civic Center it used to be a great place uh in hours they they say they knock it as the worst Town some people like you know what I mean but it's not the traffic's the world of traffic in the world because there's around there there's I don't know it's a terrible traffic the hell is good in the 70s that the Civic Center and that used to like Rod Stewart go there the Rolling Stones would go there all the top and all the time would you were you running the doors there no I was working for a block called Dave Williams okay he was a coach down the boxing club okay and what Boxing Club was that Aylesbury books and is that where you used to box yeah yeah originally yeah do you enjoy that would you enjoy the boxing yeah I didn't it took me a long time to learn I didn't know what South poor Orthodox was like I just you know what I mean I was just a fighter really to begin with like you know so you say that you're just a fighter did you enjoy fighting no I never really I didn't like hurting people okay but it it had to come in time like you know what I mean as a kid I didn't like Urban people it's strange like even the other night I I was on the door Saturday night wasn't it darling I was gonna saw that Saturday night and I got in between the argument and and the boys and like when it's Gail's fine I tend to give him a lolly light and they now well I want that I said but it's a magic Lolly and they look again like it calms everything down yeah yeah you say no just and by that time you've won I said I've got one for you but you're you're naughty yeah so you get this and sometimes it's funny things what can break trouble at my arguments anyway I did sweet and when he come out he the the the doorman's not gonna take a drink off him he said no no no no no and he took the drink but I think he threw the drink on the floor he should have just put the drink somewhere and I think it was the fact that he threw it on the floor you know and I've got in between the doorman and I I can rap like this is what I do I can wrap it all day and uh um you know what I mean if they hit me I'll say I'm a [ __ ] Granddad you can't hit me I'm 100 years old you know what I mean I'm a pensioner you keep it stop hitting me everyone stop getting shot shot and uh I try and break it off this way and I'll give I knew it was going to go wild I Give a Boy a sweetie [ __ ] goes mental and he got this sweet and he but it took the argument off the doorman onto me okay and he goes yeah bloody racists and everything I said now I come from Africa he said what do you mean you come from Africa I said well not me my my ancestors like he said what do you mean your answer I said we all come from we're all Brothers we're all human beings and he laughed you know what I mean and I think he forgot about anything just totally diffused genius I said we're all Brothers mate really like I said you can spit him do you know I wouldn't even mind after the club's clown being being a a shoe Shiner yeah you know when they come out the club yeah if they got problems or anything like jump out there like a bit all right get up now how you doing all right we got the Apple repairs got the Apple repairs you see it on your deaf and dumb are you hey what I wanted yeah that's not clean I'll do that one as well all right and keeping Suite Life yeah I don't even open doors for them yeah it doesn't me I don't mind like you know what I mean when I meet even a a gangster or a criminal and I'm not saying it's good but they're like celebrities to me gangsters like you know what I mean and odds yes sir no sir I'd love you know what I mean and it presses especially people like uh Freddie Foreman I love Freddie Freddie's quality right oh he's wacky he's gorgeous mate he talks about London when he's come out the lines out the railway stations down below and the bodies would be on the street bits and pieces like and my nan used to tell the same the East end light and even the crow I'm not sticking up with a crazy Airline what they've done was wrong things I've done things you've done things everyone's done is wrong but they did go for the second world war along with Frankie Frank well I think Frankie phrase was Robert robbing the shops more than he was down and hiding from the bombers like you know what I mean what was your I want to know what your world was like when it got turned upside down when you got put in prison I needed to get put down okay the the world has got the better of me like you know what I mean I started going Twisted light and uh the drug dealers I had some Fierce rails with a drug dealers like I'm not saying like I mean I'm no drug dealers I'm friends with them it's none of my business like and um what they do is their business like you know what I mean but not where I worked you know what I mean they're not giving it the people around me like you know I mean I've got a fella now he's a he's a lovely fella like he stays with me he's been with me for years he come from Hartlepool went to Milton Kings walked from a bus from Milton Keynes to my place he stayed with me years before what's his name uh Michael Cadott like you know and uh he said if you turn me away norm and he said I'm dead he looked like a skeleton didn't he lie and I looked at him and I said this is going to be hard work this is like you know and I said he he slept for months like you know what I mean except for months cleared clear clear don't even drink now like and uh she said he's like a son too like I said he's the only son what does what he's told like and he's been with so I've got a heart I do feel for a bigger you know what I mean how did you get banged up what did you get banged up for yeah it's uh I mean towards the end with sunrise and a few other places I used to hire myself out I was to go anywhere so so just bring it down Sunrise the old Rave yeah the old Rave scene were you working on the Raves were you yeah yeah yeah okay all over the country okay give me some examples for other Tony hater but Tony hey to give me you do you know Tony no no no no he was a very very intelligent boiler I mean I worked for him when he was a kid he had arcades machines and arcades like and he come from uh wins win Winslow and it Winslow yeah with Milton Kingsway you know what I mean Milton Keynes was a brand new city and I watched Milton Keynes I had my eye Milton Keynes because it was growing and growing it was like a Vegas light you know what I mean and he'd have machines in some of the shops over there and this that and the other light and he'd be only a kid like he'd say Norm come and work with me like it go and look after and I'd go in there when he'd cash up the machines and it would be only a kid he was it'd be only about nine or ten it's kind of skinny like you know what I mean but the girls liked him lightly so was he throwing the parties you saying he was probably he was throwing the parties and he was saying to you come and give his hand come and look protect the front door for me yeah yeah he well yeah I was working for him for you did you enjoy it did you enjoy working on the Raves I was a doorman yeah I was a I enjoyed being a Dorman yeah I didn't like I didn't like bullying I didn't like hurting people but I I done my job and if I would come to get a good bee and I could pull myself together and you know if someone said to me the other day there's one person who's got the biggest pain threshold in the country and that's Norman Buckland yeah yeah he I [ __ ] me I just kept my nose broken and ribs I've got my solar plex inside out I've got another operation I've had me uh my Stern my my rib cage uh my rib cage is that spying up their rib cage I've had that sawn open twice and they've been pulling things about and doing this that and the other it was the book it was the body punches if it come to the the worst I say look boys what you tough boys are yeah so yeah I said so what are your punches like you know what I mean can you eat hard I mean because it you don't seem that hard like you seem like a little oh no disrespect I mean I'm sure let me see what you like yeah take a jacket oh I'm not gonna fight you I'm gonna see what your punches are like like and I was just stand there and say look give me what what they'd go like you know what I mean they'd bounce off me the punches and everything like I don't know I must have I do now because it's uh it must have caused me a lot of internal pain like stuff but I didn't know like you know but even now my solar plex I'll blame on the mat leg because I used to teach him the punch I punched through the solar plex and hit the spine and he's got a punch on him I've seen him break a punishments punch machines like you're not Affairs what a beautiful lovely fella I didn't work with me three months ago about three or four months ago out of town right someone's made a phone call um Cobra Cobra is it cobra Cobra made a phone call to someone else and said can you get Norman but this is a martial art offense and someone you know some of the boys want to see him up there and and when I got there they said uh they said some of the boys from so-and-so they recognize that I said I'm a bit out for fighting now I said I don't want to fight like I said I'm too old I said I'm a dorm and I've always been there to stop fighting you know what I mean and uh he kept on like Cobra I said listen mate I said I'm not being funny and also come here lately also I've got my boy with me now like Matt leglock I said listen if anyone wants to come out and have a fight and Matt was listening and I said they could fight my boy in the ring tonight of course they didn't know who Matt was was he [ __ ] he used to beat world championship I mean Matt was disappeared with Tyson AJ he had a they had the punch machine kept looking at the punch machine I knew if he here he'd break it and I'd look like they put me on a punch machine all night so people would come up like I have a crack with him like I had a few big with some people knew who I was other people didn't but um I've seen the other day on YouTube again like yeah we punched a punch bag and it will it won't go one it just won't work and they'll [ __ ] and he'll come over and Matt's broken the punch machine light and these are the heavy genders the punch on him I say I've only I've only been well I didn't I didn't know what happened I was up sparring for one minute and I was on the floor the next line I couldn't work out what was happening I told my boy Brandon Buster I said get in there inspired with Matt line I stood there lie and I couldn't work he must have done so knocked me down or knocked me out or something I'll knock the fight out of me something like that and I I thought this is never going to happen again I'll never let it happen again like but it was a new experience it was like being tear gas for the first time in your place I mean the first time that's a compliment to Matt in it massive yeah I didn't think he didn't think anyone could knock me down with the Travelers used to come down here I mean I didn't I didn't even know who Lenny McLean was I'm I bumped into him because I was working on his patches and everything he got the UMP but um Lenny McLean got the um where were you working at Wembley Arena Wembley lie and they've obviously phoned him up it wasn't exactly with me I'll calm things down Michael dick was a pro boxer in malesbury light and they were giving the Abbeys like let's look after the merchandise like The Prince and uh I was working for a product called uh Vic Bellamy star Guard Security Northampton he come from he he was he gave me a load of work like let's go all over the country for him right and I didn't know this is incredible I didn't know there was Pirates so what do you do like Michael Jackson who I could say now I was watching documentary the other day like and this boy is grown up to a man now who uh the the boy he was supposed to abuse okay and he's saying no he didn't actually abuse me is that right is that we said yeah yeah I've heard Michael Jackson's bodyguard on here yeah and he said the same he was like well who knows who knows but but what what makes it what makes it strange now the boy was in Home Alone you know the little caulking the little kid yeah you know what I mean and he's saying look he said honest to God he didn't do this to me like you know what I mean I don't know I don't know what was your relationship like with Lenny McLean well I did I've seen him a few times I used to work down kentish Road Camden town and that was like home because that's when my my granddad come from they're the mum grandmother come from the East end light and do you remember chatting to Lenny McLean no I was fascinated like I've never seen anything like it in my life what made you what made you fascinated by him the appearance okay he just had this he was honestly mate you know what I mean I'm not I I I've never I've never seen I more or less fell in love with him you know what I mean the arms the movement that he knew like he knew what to do like you know what I mean like a horse jumping in the air you know it's a stallion [ __ ] doing all that stuff like you know I mean [ __ ] jumping off a waterfall like go swinging through awful is the real thing no honestly right yeah yeah he stood about six foot three and uh he must have been he must have been his fault I should imagine he just before he died a few years before he died this is in the 80s I was about 25 26 I was at my Peak then I I went back down from no one right we had trouble with security like I'd have work but that might I said you're out of order you can't and I said look Lads I've got the [ __ ] pass we worked for Prince and I said what's happening live we generally work outside and take all the the t-shirts off of people like and sometimes something like Prince or or Jackson there'd be hundreds of thousands of t-shirts so someone's making hundreds of thousands of it's all you I never knew this went on yeah and then you'd have to tell that that was nothing to do would be the tilts I'll let the tilts go more than one but sometimes you'd have van loads coming from Liverpool or coming from Manchester was there ever was there any other trouble with Lenny knowing that you're on the doors there did he ever come up the boys you got the boys what happened no I I looked at him and I I liked him I didn't know would you have back down to Lenny McLean I went back down from though man that's the honest truth there now I would I'd backed out from you I'd back down from you my wife beats me up all the time right I've got no choice but you were at your in your 20s 30s 40s 50 you went back down I swear to God I wouldn't back down from no one I there's nothing I've been treated like an illiterate all my life a backward [ __ ] kid liar I better come forward and front it all by myself obviously I'm my dad and my family around me like so nothing really bothered me like you know what I mean what happened that moment then when Lenny knew you were on his doors how did that get off like what do you say we must have been paid well he probably got about 500 pounds it was beyond the Morrow's law you know what I mean they were scared because this fellow Michael deck was a professional boxer and he would have probably tore them apart like you know what I mean I said to him you can't talk like that I said Lads what's happening we work outside the venue you've got the Pirates out there there should be a book I'm gonna have to get Vic Bellamy to put a book out there people didn't know what was going on what's a pirate a pirate's people who's selling dodgy t-shirts t-shirts I think they were coming like a Milan because they even had trouble with the uh the IRA up in Leeds we had trouble with the IRA they were supposed to shoot back Vic Bellamy he is six foot six about 25 stone and I was trying to work out how can I could get in front of them to catch the Bullet Hole was it it's [ __ ] like that he was you would have taken a bullet for him I would have taken anyone I worked for I swear to God I would have taken a bullet for them but I swear to God I've got used none of times well I was loyal are you saying you got used you think over the years I got used give me an example how you think you got used I mean um the job before last or when I come out of hospital I had my Stern broke and they had to put they had to put a um wires to hold all the stern The Gather I don't know what they've done I don't know if they glue it together but it's a major operation and the fella was a multi-millionaire I was working for it and he had a few factories there like it upset a few people and he didn't want no one coming around he said he had a beautiful manner in that you know what I mean and uh when I went to work for him he come up there I was on the door at the Bell Windsor winds Winslow Winslow what was that little I worked for a lovely bloke there like and the people were there Buckingham no it was just before buck and I worked in Buckingham as well that was beautiful the people were there were lovely why'd you how do you think you got used over the years did they just say you was a massive lamp it was really loyal like you say take a bullet for someone protect people did you get paid well well the worst it got like is is uh like I said when I come out of Hospital like you know what I mean I'd and uh I I don't think he believed uh he believed anything I told him not I've been away because he kept phoning me up to get back to work I said I can't I said [ __ ] I'm dying I'm [ __ ] this that any other and I'll come out and uh it's a shame I I had my wife I love my wife but I had to buy her fees and that was a lot of money so I needed my job and I won't say who he was like and uh he was a multi-millionaire and I used to look after him and he had people after him this that and the other and uh it was um carried a fridge upstairs [ __ ] my guts are wired up like you know I mean a major operation and uh um what was it now here I had to take go out and [ __ ] washes all the yard with a uh this big gun whatever it blows water the thing must have weighed 100 white and they said when I come out of Hospital you'll have time before you can even carry a broom light you know what I mean they said your body's been ripped enough I think how much was that how much was that gaze of paying you that multi-millionaire how much was he paying you Norm to protect him if he had people after him what sort of money was on darling 18 pound I was getting paid through his his management when I was getting paid through his he had his own firm and everything yeah why was it why were there people after him oh he is yeah it upset people especially with people's wives and stuff like this world is wild as Factory it was a craft that he you know he done me a few favors he helped me out he got me off the door for a little while you know what I mean but I needed a break off the door did you did you were you using drugs in between 18 and 30. he was drugs not your thing I hated drugs yeah okay I knew drug dealers or people I'd never get involved like what they do is their business so long as they didn't bring it into where I was Yeah okay or around me Lord I just didn't agree and would that wind you up if you found out they were serving up with that okay oh yeah yeah because you were there to protect the club and the owner or anything really I think my grandmother was used to rear up with me like about Churchill and what what did you get banged up for May Firearms yeah yeah I someone kept bothering me all it was a silly thing it was a silly thing kept bothering the dorm and when I wasn't at the door light I kept warning them and warning that as a few brothers and while I was working over to Milton Keynes I used to work all over the place so I mean what happened with the Firearms the firearms when we we it's Jesus I'm trying not to get people into trouble here like we with the sunrise we ended up because that the sunrise no disrespect there there was other ravers and other other big groups out there I can't remember all their names obviously you know uh everyone done their bit like and people were saying that's not right because we've done no you all done your bit like and I'll be honest like you know um faces and names couldn't go together like but now like I see a picture of Cass Pinnock the big fella West Ham yeah I remember he had glasses on in the summer like uh tall yeah no yeah books out and everything and I was trying to look at his eyes line all I could see is a religious reflection of itself and I didn't know if I was more scared of myself or look at him than the eyes like but he was about a lot of a lot of the boys a lot they all had books out and and they were about and I did say freedom but I couldn't put names okay anyway someone got kidnapped up in London and um from the right same Tony I era and a dive uh we was a firm light and uh I never had nothing to do with the drugs or all the tax never taxed anyone or or anything like that and they kidnapped him and then and uh [ __ ] me what they do to him they took us up Hospital a little firm with us about five of us I remember he was with me like I'll name them because they they've kept clean well now they're you know what I mean it's the past Stefan Wilson he's a tough boy for me I was reading shot a few times but when you shoot Stephan you've got to be careful because he gets backs up he gets back up and chases you down he was a great boxer he's been a sparring partner back in the 70s like I thought he'd go all the way like Hitman Hearns like they're the boys like yeah he brought up in homes and everything and the other four um there was him there's Mark Marsh Mark Moss then has just come out from doing a nine year stretch but it wasn't even a real Gunner used it was an art you know what I mean it wasn't a real gun and he was set up as well but it was in the 70s where he said the judges were just he said what the sentence he got he couldn't believe it like him he said it turned his life absolutely upside down but I'm sure he didn't want to be or I didn't want to be where I was then like you know I mean on the way to London Kevin Wilson was a lovely fella he uh Big Boy from Milton Kings he wasn't a tough past that he was a hard hard man not a hard man but what happened we broke into Milton Kings as it was getting bigger you know from Ellsbury I'd go over to Milton Kings and work like you know what I mean it'd be Bletchley first like the Agora over there so what did you get nicked for you said you got Nick for firearms what actually happened how did you get caught how did I get caught now the old bill yeah the old Bill pulled me up well I've come out of the car put my hands up like you know what I mean I'd no no quarrel what did you have on you nothing either it was hidden light you know what I mean in the car no no okay well they said they said why is it sore enough I said to get it in the old one I didn't know what else to say I said it was an antique you know what I mean anyone what runs about with a sworn off 12 or any Firearms like for the kids I'm telling you now like it's wrong you know you don't do it like you deserve to go into prison like I was under the doctor at the time I was on there I was on tablets and now I at the end the door worker got to me like you know what I mean I was I started going like loopy Lou like you know what I mean the drug dealers pissed me off like you know what I mean there's death threats like you know what I mean I was busted up a few times but it didn't bother me like you know what I mean and that when the shoot has come out you couldn't fight a gun you know what I mean the the fighting got they in it was as soon as the 90s hit the 80s are right you could play about I think they're on ecstasy in the 80s yeah if I was loving each other everyone was loving it I could go to I could work anywhere in London yeah you know what I mean I met Lenny McLean he was a lovely fella like you know what I mean and he looked apart and everything like you know what I mean but he come down he'd done his job professional a lot you know I mean he'd come down he looked about he humped and rumped and walked about like and I carried on doing my job like you know [ __ ] it well I don't go really give a [ __ ] who anyone is like really like you know what I mean I got involved with the the the the the the unlicensed fighting but it was ropey very rope but I mean even Lenny had a he had a fight with a bloke called um a lot heavyweight called uh what's his name now Roy sure no no no no no want Roy Shaw won't Cliff fields uh um what was his name now darling he thought he not not Glennie out twice but he weren't supposed to knock him out in the first fight and this is what I meant ropey when two men get in the ring even if it's set up it's not going to go as a setup right it all depends on you know what I mean how long did you get put in prison for when you're age 30. what's yourself I've got 10 years got five for the firearms and five deer fry and um what was the afraid scare and frightening fright I won't I can't go it's in the book lord I don't want to really go into it like because obviously now the man's a family man light and uh I bet he's moved out of town and everything light and I spoke to him you know what I mean I didn't carry it on like when I got out you know and uh he he was a bastard over the years he hurt a lot of people like Marmite Leroy Dennis he was Howard Jones's mind there he's working down the uh rectory farm and the man his brothers turned up light and he just added in fatigue just had it in for Dorman that night and they smashed him up like with a firing canister can like I think they they're the Three Brothers got put down like but um they it was never the same afterlife they called for me I was over Milton Keynes at the time they worked down the rectory Farm in Aylesbury and I was with Leroy for years like you know he got himself back together he's a handsome man Black Keys they are with Jones's mind or he he used the Civic Center for Dave Williams he used to work he used to do world tours and everything and back then we used to admire him he's like amps have always had good looking women around him beautiful proper hard man he was like you know in his prime and I don't think they liked him like you know what I mean there's no need for dude and what did they break that down you remember what they broke that down and when you got yeah five for fry far for the firearm the fry was the gun to frighten okay the gun to frighten but he the man was a cross-dresser anyway so that's in I mean yeah I said I couldn't the man had kids you couldn't kill him you know what I mean but I was [ __ ] annoyed of him maybe shoot him in their legs or something like that it was stupid I shouldn't have even had a gun but the kids out there like is it's not clever it's stupid what I've done I was under a doctor at the time like my depression was terrible like you know I mean I was very stressed and uh I think they was giving me some sort of medication in that and I said look you know oh my I'm losing it I said I'm losing the plot completely can you put me away somewhere or something they said no they intend to I said I want to go there because there's lunatics there like you know what I mean and obviously I was I was probably as mad as them like although I was a family man I was earning money and people couldn't see what was happening to me like you know what I mean but um there was another death threat coming from another firm that kidnap one of the boys up in London they're torturing really beat him up bad stripped him off room in a van it was a house he was on a party a house party he shouldn't have been there we should have been doing a door it was for another firm Back to the Future Back to the Future yeah it was Back to the Future I mean we've done out of skip but I worked for so many I was I had out and worked for so many different different things like and um it was terrible because his eyes are like that when we went to see him and he his skin was all bloody as a black guy he's Amsterdam man and his eyes are like that like and I said to my brother what the [ __ ] and he looked at me like I said they've done him out to death and uh um that they're on steroids they're probably that this is when when the when the the um heavy cocaine come into it like you know what I mean uh so as far as I'm concerned there were a bunch of irons what done them out there I've done him at the death and yeah and when you came up how many years did you do in total I um I think I've done the free I think I've done so you got a 10 but you've done three yeah yeah yeah yeah it wasn't that bad you know okay and when you come out were you a different man or were you straight back on the doors again no no I was different I was a bit wise I was still stupid but a bit wiser I learned I I've done my homework I've done anger at management classes they're like you know what I mean I knew I had problems like and I'd done my homework it is disgusting really because the wife and kids done the bird for me like you know what I mean yeah your family doesn't yeah we don't do the bird you know what I mean I can understand in dinghies these people coming across you know what I mean bless them from whatever country like and going to a prison like what do you like you're getting three or four meals a day you're getting all your clothes you get your clothes anyway they give you clothes track suits and shoes and socks and Underpants and everything like you go there you get your breakfast so you get opened up in the morning like come out the last thing at night you've got to go and get the hot water for tea overnight so you got this there and the other light there's a TV room there it's it's um I quite liked it in prison I'm not being funny but my my kids done this is what hurt me like the wife and kids the family the loved ones do the you know sentence lie and even though I dislike the bloke you know what I mean I should have shot like it was he's a silly [ __ ] he was cross-dressed he I'd what saved his life he's dressed up as a woman at the time like a wig and everything he had on like you know and I I was [ __ ] confused like but it was good though you know what I mean but it was worth doing time for him like you know what I mean anyone you know what I mean because he he was a bad boy what did he what did he do to piss you off [ __ ] everything like you know what I mean just uh just everything around you like everything you know I mean coming in the clubs and anyway I won't I don't not talk about I'll talk about prison life you know what I mean because is he in your book Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah you mentioned his name in the book no I won't he's got kids okay you know what I mean and he's got family have you seen him since over the past years yeah yeah yeah yeah I've seen I was like when I spoke to his brother's light and you know what I mean and everything sweet yeah no yeah yeah you know I had to go away it's a shame I had to go away for that yeah but it could have been an innocent victim like yeah I mean he could have been you know what I mean [ __ ] I remember at one stage I was on these the the the the the the the doctor come over to me and he gave me these I've been down here with an ex the hospital like there are doctors like you know what I mean you were down there with an ex yeah yeah to the doctors yeah yeah yeah we're gonna abuse it I was I meant I had to get put away I knew I was turning light it could have been the steroids I think it was all the death threats mixed up and people being killed and shot and suicides even my best friends are killing their self so it got too too bad like and I really needed I needed to be put away but I I was pretty good law I wasn't a drug dealer I wasn't a tax man like I mean friends were like I'm frankly used to come and see me with Skype and see Dave Courtney um frankly come from um Hartlepool yeah he was friends with the the tax man the big what's his name now I know you man what's his name the tax man from uh um I've got to say for Brian now he's got a lovely message I'll talk to him on the phone I'll talk to his missus now and he's got to listen to his missus because she's a lovely woman right you know what I mean and I think she's put him on the right road now and it's nice that he can he can talk about it now you know he wasn't good in his days he's a naughty boy like you know what he done was wrong like what did he do like me what didn't he do what did I get told I got asked if I could have a word of him like I was watching one of his boxing videos like when he was younger and I'm telling you the truth the man could box yeah seriously books big man strong man my name yeah but this is before he went on the steroids I think he looked like oh I swear to God like a white man with Ali you know what I mean the bloke couldn't catch him because he just moved away light his movement was fantastic his feet work was fit as well like you know what I mean and he played with his keys a lot it must have been something in the apis I reckon after that fight I see him in life because I said I'm gonna [ __ ] have a word he looked good he was young answer man like you know tall fit if he stuck to that and just didn't get involved in the rest of the stuff he could I think he could have turned Pro and what was your name the tax man the text man yeah he was a he frightened the life hey he used to move around he went Hartlepool for a while right and he he front he's the frighten the life out of people initially fried the life out of people like who were serving up drug dealers he used to text him yeah he used to text him yeah and it wasn't a bad thing like you know I mean that's like I said like you know I know dealers and there's tax people but there's nothing to do with me like you know I mean I'm I'm only a doorman that's all I have ever have been a dormant lie and if it means putting someone's shoe up here and shining it and spitting on it and give it a good clean and putting it back on their feet and kissing their feet at the same time I will as long as it doesn't cause a fight yeah and I said I didn't want people getting hurt I just weren't that Nation like you know but at the end it turned me are you oh I started hurting people you know it wasn't me at all like you know what I mean and I'd start being like my brother like you know I mean if they'd go down start screaming kick them in the headlight you know and I do you know even when I boxed I I hardly use any headshots used to always be body shots because the head shots if you hit someone in the streets first if they had a drink and a head is the head if there was six foot the body would collapse and that head would fall six foot on the pavement you know and it could be a curb or something like that crack open and smash and body shots they weren't too bad it would hurt them for a few days like but you know when you hit people like they got going to their wife sometimes they've got kids so and I was such a sweet little doorman I didn't you know I was a good dormant I was still a dormer now and I don't like seeing people get hurt but the the mix of things you know got mixed up with it right and I suppose it turned into any one like [ __ ] Hitler in this in the first world war like you know what I mean what age were you when you come out of Nick at say 33 34 or 35. what age were you when you started started to calm down when you come out of Nick were you a different person like you said you come out wiser you come out wiser yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I the bloke the bloke guy back in his plant pots away and fired a few shots at him he he was a would-be gangster but he he went straight to the police like you know what I mean and uh the blues show his [ __ ] car up as well Lyle I was real pissed off of him he was a the depression you know what I mean I couldn't handle the depression no more like I'd really got enough light and um when you come out when you come out of Nick will you still were you still pissed off with that same fella how many years did it take discipline I've worked I mean I'm working prison didn't I okay and I try to educate the people around me as well like because they had me on uh they had me on what they kept me on Monday because people knew me and I I there was nothing to be a threat of I was a doorman and I got myself back into being a doorman being a nice guy like you know trying to help people trying to be distant there was no steroids in prison so when you were saying you calmed down everything was nice and and you weren't violent and then you did turn violent how did it make you feel when you went super violent did you feel you're completely out of control like blackout it felt like when I'd get angry I'd grow and grow and grow up to about seven eight foot tall like you know what I mean and it don't matter what's in front of you like I even the first fight when I fought for Joey pole like yeah um young Joey Paul I love Joey Paul and Ricky English they've done a lot for me lighting the boys and um we had someone in the audience what what was [ __ ] shouting out he should have come in the ring to fight me you know what I mean but instead he was shouting about in in the in the background like you know what I mean and uh I looked at him and the next thing I jumped I was about 21 Stone I jumped I was a fat old man about 50 years old as well to me it was like parts of the Caribbean like you know what I mean what I'd already seen like had been like something I could never put it in with someone who's been into war in the Army like but you know I mean I've I've Seen It All I've already been there so that didn't mean anything like I was trying over the ropes and knocked him out jumped back in the ring and waited for this fellow night it got out with his and he didn't want to fight like and Joey said you've got to fight him right you know and I had a word of him before the fight because it's ropey um prize fighting prize fighting is fighting unless it's fine it's fighting professional boxes boxing like you know what I mean if I got in there and I boxed I should have got in there and boxed and looked good like you know what I mean I would have showed everyone up like and I was a good boxer I could go well I was taking the last part I was taking three rounds weren't I yeah I'll throw four I don't know I was taking the distance anyway and it didn't really bother me like I dropped him in the last round but um I still had it's still adrenaline adrenaline rushes like you know what I mean but um I said after I apologize to Joey like it was thousands of pounds of damage like everything had gone up and smashed and loads of people as well I felt embarrassed like you know what I mean I'd let myself down my my nan used to tell read the tea leaves my cousin used to read the tea leaves the the cards and that and they said like you know you mustn't lose your temper you've got to keep you cool now and they could see the future and they could see that they even said about the the belt Roy sure give me lie bless himself that was the governor belt wasn't it yeah I love Roy Shaw I did uh there was Tina his son was an hard nut as well [Music] um Roy Shaw um Dave what's his son's cat name he's a tough boy he's gonna hate me now I know I forgot his name uh he come over to uh Milton Kings how was your relationship with Roy Shaw I worshiped him yeah I I worse into the fact that the he had his family around they loved him and looked after him but there was people taking to take the piss out of him like he he didn't know what he was signing light and people people were having him over like they they got him a dodgy girlfriend and and that they were a couple of people like and I I started getting angry I said the young Joey like you know what I mean I said this can't happen mate he said it's not gonna happen for mate so he could be taken care of I said get me a get me a fight with him like I was going to give him a [ __ ] good eye tonight you know what I mean I can't name him okay because he's not with us no more okay and uh uh I don't I can't say things with Joey and and and Dave and and all those like you know me I can't repeat it like but my idea was get him in the ring give him a [ __ ] good iron light and give him what he deserved I spoke to Tina about it like and when he used to go out towards the end with Tina I'd go out with Roy Shore as well because you know what I mean people would take little Liberties like you know what I mean did you ever do any uh bare knuckle boxing any fighting yeah all the time why'd my own gym didn't I down the governor's gym down down my place down the she loves it down there don't see down the bomb 23-foot ring yeah the Travers had come down all the time you'd have some good Fighters come down here as well a pro professional box is used at martial arts used to come down there even uh bless his sold a lovely guy Alex Reed yeah yeah he'd come down he was good yeah this is I don't disrespect him at all like you know what I mean he was he could have a he could have a tear up he's through the flying back kicks nice to take the piss light and I said well give me one of your flying back kicks and of course Nothing Hurt Me in the gut there and I'm sure it's him you Alex you I think it's you what's giving me all these [ __ ] operations Alex of course you're laughing lion you think it's funny at the time but it's not and I can remember three months later my stomach up there like and I'll have to keep rubbing hey there's a lot of footprint it's where it's Alex Alex Reid before his world title fight and he did he could put a fight up yeah he's done this flying back kick and I was I watched it back on video like it knocked me back about three foot or two foot and I'd walk into it like and I used to walk into it and try and knock knock them off balance because I even with the kicks and the punches lies to walk into them like and even Matt led the last time I spotted him like I used to keep my guard high up like because he he could hurt in the face he could break his nose bare nut or street fighting he was fantastic like you know what I mean he was he was brilliant I would have put him against Lenny after he come out of prison life and that they would have had a good scrap light you know what I mean how would you think you'd have got on if you had a fight against Lenny our total respect for Lenny and Roy sure never say a bad word against them they're dead now they've got children out there like you know what I mean and it's disrespect not only to disrespect them but their families as well like he's got a lovely son out there Roy Shaw's got a lovely son he's gonna hate me for forgetting isn't that what's his name is it Junior Roy Shaw even Lenny McLean's got Jamie McLean in it Jamie McLean yeah I've seen him Spar on on YouTube in there he's quick of his hands like you know what I mean and have you seen lately that um Matt leg's looking at doing a bare knuckle fight for 10 grand what are your thoughts on that no no I really I told him years ago I said why don't you have a crack at the governor thing like you know what I mean I said it's it's easy enough like I said you know what I mean I said the boys they give me I wanted the chemo slice and uh uh is it butter bean yeah Kimbo slightly dead now and he keeps yeah he's dead no that was steroids yeah he was a tough boy weren't he yeah and uh who's the other one the uh the big fat geezer about that and I thought he'd tell Ricky Ricky I love Ricky English he was nice he was good with Matt leg as well he looked after matte leg and Joey pole the old man Joey and young Joey but I I wanted tougher fights like you know what I mean it's it's not it was just that I could take a hiding like I could take hiding for three rounds and come out there and it was always like when I used to catch him in summer in the solo Plex I think he stumbled back on man I'll pay for it now they used to go out like a light in a Solo Plex and it the fist would always find it the way there and I could I could get in there enjoy myself like you know what I mean but I was always right all right with the boys I thought as well I showed them total respect after the fight and the first one JJ said you won't stamp on my headlight I said well what makes you think I'm going to start when you read a lot I said if you take a dive I said and I think you know I know you take a dive I said I will stand on your headlight you know what I mean so he wouldn't go down would he JJ Jesus Christ I had him in the Bulls as I I could a real good ball punch because after he was still screaming he said you've hit me in the Bulls lie and he I said I told you not to go he said look I can't even walk it he said they've swollen it up like coconuts and the way I see it it wasn't it wasn't boxing there was a professional boxes there yeah okay but it was prize fighting you know I went there to enjoy myself what sort of money were you getting on a prize fight oh a few hundred pound like it wasn't great I used to pack wherever I went I used to pack the arena out like and there I mean they were mixed in with Travelers like the family like with Travelers fruiters like marketers um scaffolders that everyone like you know how well connected to you with The Travelers around the UK I went to watch uh uh Matt leg fight with Paul Joyce that that that really got me I mean Paul Joyce he was six foot six and over 20 stone he was 19 at the time as well right and I was very impressed of him very very impressed I I thought he could have even gone to uh to the likes of of um our big um big fighter now like The Traveler what's his name who's the big world champion now Tyson Fury yeah I thought he could go go up to that sort of level like you know what I mean who uh um Paul Joyce Paul Joyce do you reckon he was it was Bare knuckle Champion yeah and I don't think he ever lost an amateur up to then he never lost an amateur fight and it was a home show and they went Nifty three rounds toe-to-toe like you know what I mean and you had to know what fight was about to see the fights I mean Matt was I've never seen him throw so many right hands before like against this giant of a man like and it was their home show as well and they're all travelers in the crowd like you know what I mean and I I I I I felt I fell now I went out for Matt I wanted to go over and grab Paul Joyce's ankle and trip him up or something but The Travelers would have killed me like they would have just wiped me out the way like you know like nothing like and I knew that as well uh he won it how the [ __ ] he won it he won all his arms he was knocking everyone out where did the book come about who who said right let's write a book on your life Henry was uh Lenny McLean's friend okay Henry Henry said some money and when did the book come out it going did it come out darling yeah and and the new governor the new governor because what happened when I fought there was there was Roy short Lenny McLean you could never take it away from him so I love the keys to the pieces like in their families total respect I was never disrespect them or their family I would never say a bad word against them nor would I say about the firm you know uh uh all the old boys like because to the to me they're someone yeah you know what I mean me I've never been nothing but um I don't know I'll just keep cracking on then I hear really and there's a feeling like when you brought the book out for you to know you've got a book you can't read or write but you call out a book you must have felt proper proud of that yeah I didn't really he kept phoning me up and asking bits and pieces like and I've given people's numbers like you know what I mean I said well he'd be there for this he's written books for other people before like and I think he's had the books out and found out that it's not been the truth like you know what I mean but um everything in the book could be backed up everything and there's even stuff I didn't put in the book like you know what I mean you couldn't put in the book as there's things you can't talk about like you know what I mean I I up until I went to prison like that that stupid little wanting to kill people disappeared today it's never come back yeah I said I've always said I left my demons down the block with a [ __ ] next sale to Charlie Bronson like you know what I mean he I would have loved to met Charlie down the block at the exercise they wouldn't let me out of exercise I said why not is it because you and Charlie I said I'd love to meet him they said now you kill each other they said we've seen you kick off on on um where was it in the in in the visits like you know what I mean but I I didn't know what I was about really like I went the visits and as a Asian boys out there from Watford and Luton with another gang a boy that big is probably about 10 or 15 people like you know I mean one of one lot and their families are there the others are the other family I had my kids and it was just a dormant's routine like you know what I mean it was up he was kicking off the chairs started going over the screws couldn't handle it blessed them I'll total respect those screws and the screw asses I love the screw asses because they used to look pretty like and they'd they'd had a hard job like you know what I mean and they were pretty little things like you know what I mean and and then the geezers were they'd some of them were my mates like Tomo [ __ ] he sold me a dog he told me it was a [ __ ] Bulldog it turned into a [ __ ] ground [Laughter] I said what are you doing mate and I love the dog I couldn't part of it then though he said no he said the father was a bulldog I said well can this dog six foot tall like what's going on right I was saying to my mice I said to use that dog at all I said I don't fight my dogs they said no no it's a rice dog it's Graham I said no it's a [ __ ] it's a Pit Bull or something he would have it like and I went back there lying he laughed you know what I mean he said no he said the mother was the ground I said why didn't you tell me that and some of the screws in prison were good as gold even some of them took the Johnson Bronson now like and I said why don't he let me out with him like they said you we was on visits and it was kicking off right and I had the kids there and I think it was just my temper like you know what I mean I was watching it that's it right that yeah [ __ ] off that's enough yeah over there that's enough and I found it was he did was anger that he wasn't the hand people were hurting people they use the aggression coming out yeah what quiet everyone down yeah yeah quieting down but I come back yeah he stopped all the [ __ ] fights and everything and I said now and again when I even in visits or out in the car out in the yard or or going to work they're dead good job I went education there I learned I had difficulties I learned too like that it was my my my brain was wired up wrong you know what I mean so really I'll come out you know what I mean sort of handicapped but it was a shame but I think my maker was laughing me when he made me life [ __ ] give him a soft nature yeah and wire him up so he's stupid and uh that's the way I come out but I've had to live with it and you know after all that you know I've got a beautiful wife what I love and uh if I live my life again just to meet my wife at the end I would mate you know what I mean crazy oh I love her so much I can see when you come in Boss me she showers me she's dressed and I want to dress myself I feel embarrassed like kick dressed with me like oh okay all right oh yeah so all right goodbye you wash your toes in between your toes yeah she she'd come from Heaven I got told about her years ago she's 20 years younger than me like but um she's a carer as well she works seven days she's just got a job on a seventh day and a fruit is like you know doing the fruit and I'm over the moon because that's that's where the family's been the last 300 years of big fruit is my uncles died the last of the fruit is I've got to say um Chris Doman Chris Stone was a big influence of me in the fruit stools and that he was my cousin like I think he might still be the fruit as well how is your relationship with Dave Courtney and tell me about Camelot Castle oh lovely I just love it up there people used to want to go up there like uh they used to talk to me in hours we like to take us up their lives I can't do this explain to the listeners at what Camelot Castle was like it's beautiful it it you know it sounds crazy like you know you've got the Tower of London yeah and you go in there and you see the the the the the the Hawks and the the crown jewels and all that stuff in there like Troy Dave Courtney's castle like it's exactly the same and he he knows how to look after you like you know what I mean he's he's a home bird he loves it at home he's never used but he's one of the blokes has never used me never abused me like I said Dave why don't you ever mention my name like but he does Dave you do love yourself don't you he's got he's got brand and I call Brenda what looks after him I'm probably jealous because I'm not looking after him and uh he you know back in the day he had some lovely women around him like he had his first wife she was nice uh um a girl called storm she oh she was lovely and they'd all look after him and that you know what I mean and uh um frankly Ross I took him over to Spain a few times with me like we had work we used to get phone calls at home from all over the place like you know I mean different countries or went up uh sell for once no I went up to um um in in middle of London I knew how to get the train I've been up there a few Soho they called me up then I went to this bar to work the night and the money was brilliant like they wanted me to work full time and I was a bit I didn't know I said no I I said he said it's a bit far from home like and I didn't realize they'd [ __ ] got me there on a gay night and I I didn't I'd not against guys or anything like you know what I mean but he was sort of all new to me like and I thought [ __ ] it all the time I went I didn't know where I was [ __ ] working like and uh it was things like that where I'd get work you know what I mean and I know a lot of the boys a lot of the gangsters and a lot the the boys out there when I said I don't mention them I if I knew the names and faces I I had met them in the past and I'm sorry but I I can't remember the names of kamlic Castle like he had uh dungeons there I wasn't into anything I'll just I'm at me with a wife like you know what I mean I'm and I was never I mean look at me I look like [ __ ] rock father then I were [ __ ] pitbull or something like that definitely definitely a [ __ ] English Bulldog yeah so I was never really the one for the girls like but Dave did the girls loved him and my my um he always wanted to go and see Dave people used to ask and I used to take him up there but Dave is Hospitality he he is nice and he's got a Dave's got a massive heart on him yeah people haven't seen him and people warm to him but but I I say to people like when I used to take them up there like I said you've got to remember you know he's run about the cries for a few years and I I used to tell him I said what was it like running about for them like I mean towards the end like yeah also what he said we had to shut this Gage up I said why he said it was embarrassing he said he was well it wasn't Ronnie this time it was Reggie it said what he said Reggie was giving him one in prison he's coming out and telling everyone he said I had to go never work he said he was embarrassing and I thought Jesus Christ lies the only bloke I've ever liked you know what I mean and I think it was his way to say that it was wrong you know what was going on I don't think I I um uh the um Freddie foreman and a few of the other lambranos and that they're they're lovely people and uh when they got put down Reggie Ronnie Ronnie Ronnie he he should have stayed he should have done his bird it's the best place for him was like me was to put him away but I got over it like he didn't get over it it was it was a mental illness he had like and where he should have taken it on the chin and put his hands up and let his brother and let the firm go he grabbed them and brought them down with him like and uh some of them shouldn't have got put away you know what I mean and some of them you know they're still sort of upset about it now like but that's the way I see it like Ronnie should have done the bird kept his mouth shut like taking it on the chin and uh he brought his took his brother down with him and took the firm down with him they won't say that because they're loyal I'm saying that because I mean if I would have met Ronnie and he I'm not disrespectful towards guys or anything but he had a couple of his boyfriends with him cheating him up in that light I would have asked him which ones were the knickers like you know what I mean is it you all the boys wear the [ __ ] knickers that's the way it is like you know what I mean I and really to follow in that pattern light you know the youngsters of today like they they lived for the the second world war like the bombs would drop it on their houses like um maybe maybe he was gay for a reason maybe maybe his brother as logical I've got an offered against guys in that light you know what I mean but um when they took everyone down with them Lord it didn't seem right you know what I mean and people are still loyal to them these days like no one I've really really enjoyed this episode oh Jesus I can't help it things keep coming out my mouth hey we've done an hour in 45 minutes yeah mate they've been really funky for you honesty it doesn't and I'm no disrespect to the criminals out there I love you even even the drug dealers the people were dealing heroin please mate don't do it don't don't don't don't don't don't do that stuff like you know what I mean and they are called drugs come on like you know what I mean because you're killing people like you know what I mean you're not clever like what you're doing you know if I could be prime minister I'd have your ass mate you know I'd come around your houses and that would be it like you know what I mean but I'm not I'm just a simple boy simple man but seeing it and I've seen children have their their life's room through drugs like I've seen boys come in the prison life want the jump on like the the bandwagon with drugs and the gangsters and the cries and everything like like Matt leg and I said no I said no no I said listen I said I've learned it I've what I've done I said I'm here to be punished and I deserve to be punished the bloke God [ __ ] scared his knickers off if [ __ ] his knickers didn't he when I'll [ __ ] pulled a gun on them dressed as the woman he was I won't go into it anyway I won't say your name on no man I really appreciate you coming down all the way down here today to the podcast I haven't started yet we're doing it at part two yeah be lovely mate oh there's so much more yeah if you could get because I can't help it my stories go up and down up and down yeah but I you know I got brought into this world like I think my maker was laughing like he said the silly bastard like he can't read all right put it so he can never read all right so I've never been able to read all right I need my my wife she's my white walking stick and I'm lucky because she's beautiful she's the most beautiful personality I've ever met in my life and you go what the one you have got one massive heart on you oh thank you I [ __ ] love you yeah that's what Dave says mate I really do appreciate you coming down everyone yeah camera camera and he'll wrap it onto about London and audio and The Craze and everything like you'll have a great afternoon with Dave light you're a good man you're a gentleman thank you good man [Music]

Channel: Dodge Woodall

Views: 260,925

Keywords: crime, criminal podcast, crime podcast, nightclub, boxing, bodyguard, London, police, gun, trauma, Dodge Woodall, James English, Dodge Woodall podcast, gangster, drugs, mystery podcast, mystery, sas podcast, gangster podcast, true crime, Essex boys, rise of the foot soldier, truth, James English podcast, Shaun Attwood, criminal, fighter, icf, west ham, hooligan, football hooligan, hardest man, toughest, toughest prisoner, ex, Dave Courtney, Norman Buckland

Id: oye73YxCvuo

Length: 82min 21sec (4941 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 14 2023