Dave Courtney & Essex Boys Carlton Leach

that will make you pay for being difficult when you're going every opportunity they get someone always wants to be a dichotomy accountant they want to be your mate today so far and then they will get it and then being your mate is actually stopping him getting any further they do users of course I do of course I do no one understands the importance of the pecking order your biggest tool was your mobile phone of course it became another weapon if you want to say how many people can you get to come down a pub for you on Saturday night and have a fight for you I doubt very much if your kitchen he can bring out fifteen thousand that will pay their own fare and go to Belgium did you ever come across learning clean yeah out of those two would you reckon would win a fight [Music] Dave Carlton welcome to the show all right let's see you again yeah mate it's nice to be back have you boys two boys together let's roll the way back when do you remember first meeting Colton Dave um I went to a fetish party and I seen this game and I unzipped the thing anyway I fell out and he just jumped out and went ice here punch him in the mountains five to two balls in my eyes um just died foreign Ty with a a very large every firm around him from where he come from you know an emerald West Ham was crawled out from every part of England then the majority of them are hanging around where did this combo yesterday but we had this combo yesterday I live in Southland understand the country I don't mind yeah yeah my most most should be a little bit more ethnic than his at the time you understand me so you know I've surrounded more by and were you building your were you building your business up to have more and more dormant to get more and more doors no no not really I think I think um a lot of time resources for courses isn't it yeah yeah you like to say if you actually we actually rather than started fighting each other for a for for contracts I think we came to a very grown-up medium and a very good understanding you know it would be very silly is it without falling out of my little lot and my little yeah this is hundreds of people involved here there's a lot of people would get seriously yeah match up so it's just easier that every so everywhere he came that I was working the doors he was a guest with whoever he had vice versa and uh yeah there's a few times I've had to call upon him for a little bit of helping I mean he can it's if you want to go and say again how many good friends can you count normally on one end you know if you want to say how many people can you get to come down a pub for you on Saturday night and have a fight for you risking getting hurt or getting Niche and all that how many people can you give a warning to and say come down and pump them and have a fight for me on Saturday night oh Dave you'll get ten I doubt very much if you'll get in he can ring up fifteen thousand it will pay their own better and go to Belgium and go to Belgium and have a fight for you you know what I mean so this guy is pros and cons you understand I mean so there is certain times when I needed numbers just for a shower Falls and rang him and he's come over when I've had to turn up somewhere and look a little bit heavier than I was at the time and he's bought two or three hundred all got West Ham scores standing behind me so by the time I've already won and I they're all right I've been on the doors up in central London knowing on a Saturday night you've got the Tottenham the West Ham the Chelsea's all turned up you thought what was that feeling like knowing you probably not radios back in the day he was a front door you've got to turn these photos away mate it made genuinely tough good fighting group of men right when you all you had was your lungs and if there was ever any trouble you had to go oh man I'm running and do it you couldn't actually go and trouble exit number five and I need some assistance or none of that yeah and he weren't worried about the Tottenham West Ham Arsenal it was when all the Northerners come down to London it's different and you add everything changed it yeah you had five thousand Newcastle supporters down there for the day five thousand Liverpool support was down there 5 000 manchusians down there for yeah that that was when and they was coming down there for a rail and and it turned men into men like that like I said before when I was doing that so you never get another Lenny McLean them sort of uh themsel creatures you know I mean they just and um it made bonds friendship you know you were fighting for each other's life at the time you know then yeah but there was a lot of verbs you know that we socialized quite a lot as well like on the night itself didn't we yeah certain clubs a week yeah [ __ ] well use that I yeah I know but but you know you do stuff do the thing but you you always end up that we sort of always sort of had the same sort of clubs yeah just like but that's the way it worked but that's the only way it could work so what was the change like then so before sort of the mid 80s everyone's having tear-ups on the doors people are coming and getting larripped and it was just full-on fight go and see if we could pull it back it was like and then it went into the Ecstasy World it went into the excessive world and everything just sort of calmed down and then you come out of the Ecstasy world you went into the cocaine models everything went crazy yeah yeah and that's that's still out there that's that's a nasty baby yeah and they're both road yeah because the Bose disappeared for a while didn't it yeah yeah you used to bring you home yeah but yeah it just uh it broke a lot of berries like I said to you but I think like when you come out doing the doors in the 80s I mean that these were like you could be in a club which went to gazes the 19 of them have ever broken glass in their face to each other in each other ideas and they but then you know you're in clubs with three four thousand people yeah and you've got no incidences and the people the people that got into the raving at the beginning were not not the wowie druggy ravey kind of people they were football against yeah yeah all right they were football Hooligans they were people that got off got an Ardon on the fighting honestly you know and they had to replace I've said this before at one certain year they made it all football all seated well that's change the whole dynamics of what it's what you go there for you go there at one end to stand in the middle of 15 000 people all the same scarf on going yeah right that's only that's really only that's addictive that's Moorish they're bright and a half days a week you're a green grocer but on Saturday afternoon you're down here it is so exciting that you'd run over and kill someone because it doesn't have a scarf on right and now they've made it all seated you're not even let it jump up when they score so I'm gonna go sit down and they actually replace that feeling where you're all going like that right they made it Saturday night this raving there's something called a rave you can go you can go a rave and take this pill don't worry about I'm shy I can't dance if you don't want to be shy of course you're 15. no more that that tension what they said about it on the Dance Floor 500 people all doing the same thing the big ones it was normally outside yeah so did you find did you find then in that 90s when it went that way late 80s now did you find that all your men around you all just mellowed down a bit yeah you can see a different side of them than you'd thought that they ever had because you saw him in a different light 24 hours a day you know it's a tasty bit of Kit and I'd never seen it dripping my square and I've never seen it like that you know floating with the wind and all that I'd never seen that so you saw a different side of him I'm not saying it all mellow but there was there was a six uh seven hour period on a Saturday night where you could see someone in a different light than you would yeah the rest of the week our rifle steroids back in the day most tournaments yeah yeah but yeah [ __ ] you know every every single one of my lock took steroids I said to you let's go down the nightclub yeah they have a pill and then [ __ ] between us we had the biggest ones yeah we had the biggest ones yeah it wouldn't be there weren't a bigger firm than that yeah can you remember can you remember like four or five men ago they were Monsters of Men on the door yeah Birmingham John Marcus yeah [ __ ] you know I Wadley didn't I yeah 24 inch arms right what's that in Wadley yeah 24 inch arms up no no there's so many people everyone was able to but it was like they weren't but they said that image but like the in the days of of old people looked at doorman to be six foot four yeah and that was [ __ ] that was inside that game but the day's changed it's how wide you're on now yeah it's that bulldog image it's the pit bull in your you know we're a big strong easy to be a doorman then because it wasn't like you're all on camera you're not allowed to reach someone if you hit someone there the doorman is the owner has to take you down the police station getting it you know you had to battle so you had to be a big old man to handle 200 football against kicking off on the Dance Floor you couldn't be mine in your size and you know I mean even if you're a good fighter at our size 10 blouse jumping you you're in trouble out there yeah is there is there three or four names that you can name it or you would not want to get in a tear up with back in the day of course who would they be I would say Marcus Redwood Ian sucker I am wondering what about yourself well mate what what men would you name and you go I wouldn't want to be mum and I'm trying to division the thing is like if you look at someone I don't look I'm not going to tear up look at you've got to respect him yeah and what they're capable yeah and I think yeah some some people a bit of fires some days and I'll have a days yeah everyone has good days are bad days but anyone that sends it you know no you've got respect yeah yeah and there's two differences there's naughty that you can have it as a doorman right there but there's someone else that will actually clock that and go around your ass tomorrow morning at half past seven when you're on the way to work and do you when you drive five-handed with a bad age the natural and throw me out for sending drugs right yeah and that happened all you know it did weren't all on the actual door having the chair up it wasn't it you know the clever ones went round and done it in the day the the racing first started with 80s because it was though it was so mellow it was all love the love lovely yeah but then it changed yeah 1991 and the bows stuck they just started getting the Bose license yeah but then that's when like people doing drive-bys the guns were coming out when they they start getting more and more common and you know that's what happened the first night I would have to ABS up the paradise Club to see you oh it was a driver yeah yeah well dive with it yeah he'd come in with me when you can't we've just had them so sorry we had this well and then they [ __ ] off in the motor and um what was left of them I wouldn't stay in real but yeah initially no come by because he was he always stood on the phone anyways come here he went that [ __ ] thing in the wall there's a bullet there isn't that that was everyone Hit the Floor including me sorry was there any was there any times working the doors when it come on top when there wasn't enough dormant to look after what was going on there there was there yeah and Tim Westwood they used to roll the crowd up but you actually be on your toes there you know like but and you saw people in terrible States I remember I remember being in there one night with him it was Halloween what year were Rafi talking I don't know we're talking 99. that's just walking through he's walking he's walking along the big steps right off he's Charlie right right off here Charlie and all of a sudden they put for five seconds they put a a video film thing on the wall of a devil going with all fire and he has actually believe he's so happy he's end up looking at again and he's looking around to see if anyone saw it I've got a bit of eye contact with him and he's going to see that to see him to see him and I'm gonna see him and he's gonna run it over to me I'm maybe jumping off and he's crying talking to me going I ain't done nothing I haven't done nothing I said wait yeah I said I'll find out so and I'm running over grab holding this not to go I have got a funny one over here man it was a very funny time doing it very very funny joke very sexy times [ __ ] old Little Garage everywhere I think the boat parties on the side better see you know I mean someone got stabbed a shot yeah so I'm gonna pull the guy there and he got stabbed I don't know down there and then they caught him I gave him I got enough extra belly button you said you said to me Dave and our podcast we've done a couple of months back your biggest tool was your mobile phone of course everyone today that's what you know really yeah as well your mobile phone anyways there was no [ __ ] mobile phones and you had a lot of things you'd you know yeah [Music] it became another weapon hmm because because of what was on there who you know I mean was there any people coming in the ministry when the clubs you had you thought oh no here we go of course dive were there people used to clock yeah yeah wherever he was he didn't and he obviously didn't want to be known as a main player he's a main player and he might have once he's in there you know he's got another 25 dealers in there yeah there's 25 dailies and they're all carrying a thing with a bucket and he's running the thing and if you know he's in there then you'd know you've got AG yeah in there yeah you know was that was there times Carlton you're in there you knew someone to slip through that got in there oh no I've got Mars someone's gonna kick off later but that is my name is slip from there is if one of your own people will add them yeah that was the thing you know what I mean you learn you learn all the tricks to try again and there is a sixth sense that you learn as being a dormant or the governor of a pub that for whatever reason it is I can't even describe it you can actually go it's going to be agganism yeah yeah yeah you know you ought to get it in your Fields you know you'd go always don't gonna go right today yeah but you just knew a good people like it's like Ministry because it was like that like the 12 and then went 18 hours yeah most people have gone to work so by like sort of three four o'clock in the morning or five that was where they went for a few hours after and I think that the ministry is higher was when it was full of and it you know you could walk in there there would be like [ __ ] 40 dormant when they're lunch all lumps it was their play time in a few hours a little breather and then they come down but everyone knew each other yeah there was always a respect on that everybody yeah in there there might have been had they all met in other places it might have kicked off but in there it was all about playtime yeah yeah and we all had our own little bits of territory to run most of the other time but there was a big boy's playground yeah yeah I get it what was it what was the years what the years you run indoors for up until when roughly until I got too old yeah until I couldn't run away are you are you are you like in in the 2000s 2000s yeah I was doing that yeah like on the Millennium night I was still working When We Were Young to endorse store yeah like you know 30s which would be our individuals always thought to yourself [ __ ] how old are you going for it I thought I don't want to be a 40 year old doorman or a 50 year old dominion and all of a sudden someone goes ah you couldn't pop down could you like to help us out a lot we've got a bit of egg thing to climb up a bit and you end up like that and you still get evolved but I always I don't want to be that old man I don't remember on the door Sportsmen and athletes I've got um the prime of their career a lot earlier than that right at 40 and 45 you're still in your Prime as a doorman yeah because yeah you you know you've learned things you know you've got to do your own little bit of fighting in your own Club doorway with everything you know where the ashtrays are the fire extinguishing you know the locals use the bad ones to come in or you don't need to come in if they're already in you can't come in you've learned all that acknowledging someone who don't get old right right you know and if they do you know like stick in your little corner so saying yeah yeah you're not a silly old doorman at 45. you're an unknowledgeable winner respect knowledge no still a very tasty bit of kit at 45 and 50. what was what was your drug of choice in the 90s Dave I'm afraid mine was a cheap one I'm I'm old I didn't like going to sleep in case I missed something it's a good Johnny and there's people here that I can I can prove this to my my thing was I would stay awake say just say for instance Monday day Monday night all right which would do I won't stand at home watching telly I'm working Monday night and Tuesday day and then sleep Tuesday night and then I'm up all day Wednesday or Wednesday night uh for Thursday and sleep version so I slept three or four days a week maybe yeah but you died 20 or 30 or 35 years of that yeah you know and then when it got to Friday you didn't stop you didn't go to bed I didn't even go home I didn't go home from Friday night till early Monday morning was going out time there was somewhere else there's always somewhere open all the time always needed your doorman and then the big waves come you know they were all weekenders I mean it would be sitting outside circus tents with 10 000 people in it no earning fortunes like bags of money bags how are you earning all that Tupperware will you throw in your own parties as well though of course yeah yeah yeah people doing the other stuff yeah you know there was um this part like we said it all goes down to an end if you didn't you don't control that environment have you and let the drugs run away yeah and the [ __ ] and this if you don't run it yourself then someone else's gonna run in there and be doing it yeah so if you're having a rave of thought that's all you need one youngster going over on her [ __ ] dodgy bit of gear or whatever you're [ __ ] five thousand people they come into your Rave thinking there ain't no bills there yeah so you'll either have it and let anyone sell something in there right or have some control over what and who is selling what and be seen by the authorities to be throwing at every single drug dealer you can and confiscating everything again because you know you've got your own 20 there yeah but you can't have a club with no drug dealers in it or you wouldn't have a club before the booze like the AAA 89 period where there was not before the licensing I'm sorry I forgot about that you actually have the drugs yeah that's the only reason they went there yeah because all they sold behind I mean had it happened in a younger day people go to a bar and go can I have four bottles of water two ribinas an orange and a lemonade yeah you'd got beat up for just saying that you know but that's but that's all they were selling now so the pills were an essential part of the thing and what design appeals come out the the Rolex used to miss a bushes the Snowballs to you know the New Yorkers Non-Stop do you remember the first ones I said like the first ones the Callies another house before the dolls they've done the doves the Kellys which were actually from America that's what they're called and they was going 25 pounds each but they lasted all night and I was cleaners and you talked to someone now and they go I had nine or seven pills you could have two or you could have put out your head eight hours each and a half feet yeah yeah the first half I had to Kelly yeah yeah but do you remember do you remember taking your first pill come on yeah Goldie whatever most people can remember that oh okay yeah it's just it was like a whole new world opening that wasn't it yeah with it with the music because working that dolphin yeah I'm afraid aura about you being a doorman yeah you could be seen having it the Dancing Away sweating you couldn't it was so alien before pills come out you know I mean you had a a facade to to you know an image yeah yeah that actually dropped the barriers for that and you was allowed to some people can add it better than others some people you wouldn't know did add a pill yeah you know I mean I'm afraid would I only have to have a smell of it and they got out of there shadow s what is there is there a decade for both of you that sticks out in your mind go you know what I loved that decade was the 90s the naughties of the 2010s night I think from when it started in 88 yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I think going into the early 90s and everyone knew their place the Arches yeah there were so many good places to go yeah and everyone knew each other yeah it was quite a closed Circle you know it was really winning you know what I mean yeah you know I had a few Railway arches in the only and that the people were running for me but I was still working as a doorman and all the club shot two and three o'clock so I'm dressed up as he was in a dinner suit with bow tie and all that until three o'clock working the door at the West End then you would leave and go to a rave that didn't start till 12 and went on till seven or eight in the morning but no one had ever heard of it a club opening up a yeah that's what I started then they like in the home in the club up at six o'clock the following morning because I know that the normal clubs were emptying out and and it got stage where do we go next where'd you get it and then he went from that actually brought it into its um memorable thing the Rave shame what it was was this you said there was somewhere there was an ERA where if it had been seen with a packet of large ridges in your pocket you're a druggie yeah as bad as injection arrowing into your eyeball you know you smoked and that was you know he was a druggie yeah right but they found a place where you can all have a puff in there and that's all right you can actually go someone well what about that yeah no one had ever that alone would have made the place work what let alone who was Danny rampant in what he was playing drum bass house speed garage whatever it was the fact that there was a building that you could go in and have a path or not I got it be still that's what made it work there was so many people out there that puffed and that's a you know that made it successful once they had them in that building they come out with the because it was a gay thing then and the East was a a guy thing and that that we found I was with Richard Branson in um New York and we was in one of these clubs and he came back and opened up heaven with after doing that and I came back and opened up the Arches but it was then and then what what actually got me not the pills because I was a bit slow not the pills just I saw people queuing up to buy bottles of water yeah I couldn't get me eight rounded as I said the money we took just on the cold drinks half a ton of empty heavy end bowls which is really up it's coming out the tap right and then put it in this fridge and when they buy a bottle of water you take the top off for them and give it to them so there's no chops all over the dance floor so every time I'm filling up a bottle of water I'm going maybe if you bought one that they would like to put the water like that was Survivor at 5 10 p a bowl and you buy them yeah you carry and they're in them days they were a pound each but you do that a thousand of them yeah not a nightclub you didn't need toilet paper ashtrays cigarette machine Tampax machine a railway Arch right a railway arch with a big share speakers damn job done yeah done there in a carpet and then you were talking we were talking on the podcast when we did our last episode Colton about the Genesis and you and Andy and Wayne got together and they were throwing the outdoor Raves and then you took a percentage of the of the door money and then it was all about the bar and whatever what was that like being in a rave out in a field back in the late 80s pretty much it is now but now now they've got a little bit more under wrapped where the M25 ones yeah but but those little Farmers Fields were they that you know like you pitch black and no mobile phones but everyone there's a convert cards yeah down there and you know like come on they hadn't got the nowhere to actually have enough toilets there yeah they didn't have the know-how to actually put down flooring before we got our 5 000 people jumping I'm down on a bit of mud right they didn't have the floor and now it's all done a bit like that elephant safety and so when you when you were doing the doors of the outdoors I remember like like I said you know it's pitch black you know like yeah two three o'clock in the morning because they've got they've got the market most farmers will let their lamb go weren't they yeah but the M25 most of it sloped so I thought well we've all turned up there to go work pitch black and I thought [ __ ] this is a bit stumbly come out at me now [ __ ] six o'clock in the morning everyone's going no the car was [ __ ] sliding down the [ __ ] well spank like that I'll tell you a funny one tell everyone I mean he went to a winter array but Leeds castle Yeah we we went there by helicopter not how someone else is doing you know but there was a couple of people doing it and all the all the toilets was on the top of an eel with the little cubicles and there'd be no now together with scaffold planks going along the back of them all now together so those all connected together about 50 toilets or nothing and when we landed you know what I mean and when they landed there the wind blew the first set of toilets over the hill and then they're all connected up to all the other toilets to all 50 toilets when I would fell down the hill so there's 50 people in there got turds all over them yeah but a lot of night time you never really you just wanted to get in the place the music in the morning like you come out of the we'd be like on the side of these mountains and I was looking at one time it was like it's at seven o'clock we're just shutting down and all that and it it like something like transnet they've dumped all their [ __ ] cities and like there was a big pile of rubbish and all the rivals I pulled all the old chairs and set these and they're sitting there with a broken Telly right they was having a chat and they made a front room up all this broken furniture you know in the railway Arch I sprayed I sprayed my roof the seed in black and with it with one of them paintball guns that was silver I put little stars on the roof and that was it but when I had to party it gives you the hate and a sweat and all that all the paint was Dripping I was all black that was black weed with a with a railway on me and him we dug an hole in the middle of this Railway arch with with his JCB which we had plant our company and we just dug a dug a duck until we got into a sewer of the flats right so that that was our toilet over the top of that we put a load of um toilets and that was where the toilets were when it rained but you couldn't see because it was jet black and if you couldn't dance and stood on the seat cover on the Nano cover the base would make you go oh get low to me but this [ __ ] was coming out of it she didn't know you were doing that it was in BO it was nearly the the old flyover and it was as genius right because sometimes you'd go to Warehouse it'd be tipped off and then you'd have a quick move you always have a backup plan so we went there was two levels got in there and it was an old Tire Factory they stole the tires and all that so like we're all in there as well as we said a lot of us but I can't remember we used to die thing called vikings we were all right about now took pill a bit of an emerald and we used to do this thing whoa jump up in here well I parked my car upstairs to watch out when we used to the door yeah he parked his cars up the stairs actually you're a good driver you're good I've come out of there and I just thought I was what I was walking because it's only about like 10 15 minutes well I thought we can't safe out that were there there's nowhere and people was crossing the [ __ ] road kids and people are like looking about Andy's like broad daylight seven after seven I was walking back to the car and I'm thinking and that looks I thought [ __ ] it all up but look I've got back to the look I Look to reflection in the thing oh the dust the tire dust it's all come off the saline and we like the black and white minstrels honestly I was Harvard right I remember going back to me the bird that was it then of 30 minutes in the shower trying to get this [ __ ] he's dancing all night he was in his skin it was everywhere there's nowhere today there is nowhere today because it just wouldn't be allowed or no one would even go there that had the heat that then clubs used to have used to walk into it and go generate boom it was like something as soon as you walked into the door yeah you were just dripping they've done that putting makeup on looking nice your closure island or you look sharp they were just you just yeah wet Sands through to the skin it all it was the more comfortable eating the stuff was that baggy t-shirts like dungarees yeah whatever like cheap trunk no one but it wasn't a fashion statement yeah but it was and you couldn't see each other for a start it was jet black yeah yeah Pitch Black in there you know but you know I said know like the the six seven like the sunrise and as the light come in whereas is where the broken windows and you can start seeing me okay I know but if you're getting no love but did you know when you actually see what people look like and you just [ __ ] you know and they've been here like seven eight nine hours and everyone generally didn't know that they were actually a mixture between Fred Astaire John Travolta you know I mean it all turned into that oh you've seen everybody a moon walk forward that's it you know everyone thought I was on something other funny story this is this was Genesis 5 so they've got in this Warehouse it was [ __ ] massive up six seven thousand people but there was no offices there we had like some sorts and there was extension things you know an extension where you could walk around the look at the factory where the full Moon's and so what was that we we made like a little office spit up there like uh like covered it up so when the money went up but with that they keep getting at this this uh metal [ __ ] ladder get on the stench and well the money for the drinks and all that myself so there's someone at the top so I've done like two candies you know I mean maybe like ice cream ice cream I was a new experience for you yeah I hope you pulled through I'll just asked so we're like I've gone out there started rushing I'm thinking I've got to get the bag of money I I made sure they're all right so I've been walking back but there's a gap with the drop with the ladder that goes down but I thought I was still walking on the station right so I've gone like that and all of a sudden I've gone and I'm hanging right off the [ __ ] bit of metal like like the thing with the side of the station I'm looking down there's like eight thousand people going like that dancing okay you can't watch somebody I bet none of you gonna catch me and Stephen Carl where are you I mean I'm here you can pull me up did not see it I was just totally oblivious I just feel like that and I just managed to catch the size of the Walk bit you know what I mean yeah [ __ ] I was so glad terrible charm I think for a parent if you had daughters at that time because it was actually a love drug deal yeah the MDMA yeah for the people that haven't had it does actually I'm afraid make you feel really horny and if you are having a shag and you've had a pill for about it it's almost like a Viagra that's pumping up your tool and a bit of weight is going to keep you awake for a good four or five hours and you can do it to a little bit but it turns you in if you've never had it before you've got to explain that so I'm on it did actually make you feel [ __ ] yeah you were a better shag whipping than you were without it and after everything oh the whole week revolve around cause your long long day Monday Tuesday Wednesday come myself a week we nearly there Thursday come Friday don't you not [ __ ] bollocks off you know I mean from eight o'clock Friday till eight o'clock in the morning then where you'd normally not have enough energy to have a shag the pillows you shake for a number eight hours I mean so that was addictive you know I mean and he's holding me love them [Laughter] just moving on to the books gents let us know what what books have you both written yeah what's your favorite out of the nine the fact my favorite is stop the rider when I get off which was my first one that was your best book Thank you thank you very much and and it was yours too but it was I then got Infamous doing the cratering's funeral and very much actually quickly going Justice publicly go I'm not doing that no more so I wrote one book never intended to write another one to publicly go stop the ride I want to get off that's what it's called and that's leave me alone I'm not really I didn't want to be the top of any gangster tree yeah yeah so it was and it was from the heart everything I'd done there wanted to do everything I never expected to run another it became a number one bestseller which surprised my English teacher and after that they went I would do another one just about a rave scene that went up number three or something I went do one about that court case and so they Shackled me but I'll come under a lot of fire from the younger ones by the time I was going now you can't do that you're wrong but after a while every [ __ ] was doing it because it was only Monday yeah right so everyone there does that at the time I did anything come on top with that by again right I'm celebrity we're not even like I said before we don't mention the celebrity gangster but you put yourself out there you don't call yourself again no you don't call it that's what I'm saying I say that yes as in a compliment because he became recognition he was doing books before a lot more people yeah oh yeah oh that's a massively yeah but people like me I thought you know what like the the thing in the thing it might it encouraged me to come on a guy encouraged me to want to go and write a book yeah and do it and my first book muscle it would start was a franchise from Rise of the foot soldier and that was what 2003 yeah 2002 2002 and yourself what was the ride 1946 immature he's so immature and for you and for you Cole with the doing the book muscle what did that do for your profile but what you do with the notorious it's you you get the note right with the book from all of a sudden you're a dish but it's whether you're clever enough to do what with it yeah to actually do something with this notoriety rather than just walk around and get off on him and it's how you talk to talk you you know like lots of you touch the point is like talk from the art how you would be that'd become this pretend character this this a character yeah if you're Dave Courtney's talking I can't believe that's you talking in your book in your words and that's what that's that's the only way to do it yeah I never had to forsake to call a book of mine muscle to be honest what could it have been called yeah come out you're a nice guy we love you Dave we love you you know what I mean but I wrote mine as in stop the ride I want to get off yeah right the next one Rave in lunacy yeah all right the next one is a good time the rides back on yeah right you know I mean that that's what you want to start naming your book stop the ride I want to get off come from exactly that I've got I've got Infamous through doing the crates win funeral that made me um everything I ever did after that was like gangster orientated Sony authorities thought the dormans I ended up losing all my doors because they thought it was all the place when it's connected to the craze yeah right you can't have you know you shouldn't you won't have a license for a Telly let alone a nightclub you sat Courtney and and then it would have films that I was in they're going you know the police would approach them and said we don't want him going on the television getting a little bit of hero worship because that's that's glamorizing crime yeah all right you know you could yeah so they they shut me down he actually crucified me it brought me to the attention of the world the funeral but it also brought me to the attention of the authorities which crucified me and then they brought out a new Lord you can't glamorize crime so then I couldn't be on the Telly or the journalists had been writing about me for 30 years I know and they couldn't ride a decent story what was the law change there you said oh yeah you know like if you did the show documentary yeah where like in the old days you could like I will give you a monkey come and do a bit of filming a web that that all stops all they can give you is expenses for your day out yeah we traveled the world doing stand-up now you know um after dinner speaking and the audience and we've done we've done a million Cole did you think we know when you've done that when you bought your book out did you think that anyone wanted to take a pop at you after that if I felt like I felt that I would have wrote the book but uh you wouldn't give a monkey I I'm I'm only saying a little bit of going on now right if you put in my upset someone I won't do it that's [ __ ] man that [ __ ] the fact that you're a West Ham support or any mail will support would go when they're running up an opinion knows you're going to get criticism whatever you do and me being saffron they never have a North London forum and and vice versa so I don't actually agree with him now he wouldn't oh well if I thought he had upset someone I wouldn't do it I don't believe him with that all right you get what I mean now forgive me no I didn't do that as if I thought about it I just did it because I wanted to do it and say oh I wanted to say it if I did like someone I'd say I didn't like him yeah did it cause you any AG afterwards the Genesis is a terrible snide Snyder jealousy behind your back it's the only it's the only emotion that never raises its head as itself jealousy no one ever comes up and goes it's really monkey you've got a book out and you're doing it right now come out with a load of other things Jesus they say something more than me because he was he was one of the the beginning side like he started it off like and made it like then all of a sudden it like John Blake jumped on board he was getting our bosses cake crying everyone wanted to do gangster books Dorman books this book that book and everything else and what he done it then everyone stopped going no yeah it was it was all right then wouldn't it because yeah but in the beginning before I'll come under I'll come under forever yeah because it is hidden world yeah and they won't come out to me and say no yeah the computer come out and then the Facebook came out and they said I've got a million people following me off you understand what I mean but the positives of writing the book you told your story and a positive knock-on effect you created rise of the foot soldier movie yeah the franchise yeah the franchise have you seen the rise of the foot soldier Dave yeah I'm not well standing I've only been running so much it was at the premier of the first film yeah I was oh yeah yeah a lot of Terry's uh um One Nation race I was looking after his money in supplying half of his dormant and you know and I'll put him as a as the star of my film when I first made the film right when I first made my movie hell to pay and we all chipped in and everyone you know I took him to Cairns and all that but because he saw the aggravation that I had in bringing it out they just banned it because it was all gangsters playing gangsters no no real reason it won best a group of Kings my film because you saw the aggravation I had in doing it when he wanted to carry on doing the film world he just ignored and pretended he didn't know they'll call me no blanks everyone yeah we've all got our own little gripes with all different people me personally I was hurt by it it generally did hurt me a little bit because I've helped build that man I mean every I've still got the me and him wrote his first book together 20 odd years ago me and him wrote a book together I've still got it at my house to show anyone wants to have a look at it and then later on he's potentially doesn't actually know me or my message and because you don't want to be associated with the naughty boy thing and then he can carry on with his weld he'll grab hold of his story and he's got his own gripes have been but for me it hurt me the fact that and I have seen it people pay dearly for being my friend right you pay dearly for being associated with Dave Courtney because your foreigners don't like the glamorizing crime and all your gangster oriented you know and to get on in life you they want to be your mate to get so far and then they will get it so far and then being your mate is actually stopping him getting any further they do users of course of course they do we're Stepping Stones right because you're accommodate absolutely yeah have you found you've been used everybody's used yeah yeah we're all Commodities if we work Commodities we wouldn't be doing what we're doing just popping a doorman a good doorman a top doorman you're a commodity for that club you know you like to think there's lawyer around it but in the in the end you know the police come in and go second but no I would say 70 are probably I mean like I say more Dave I've used him as a massive stepping stone I've always been quite picky because I've got the football boys with me oh I've grown up with as kids but still people use exactly to stand the phone thing use me and all that but everyone wants to be a [ __ ] chief after about six months everything well why are you the governor yeah one person you only have one General when anyone says to us and about the trouble all the world today how are you gonna hear it the problem areas today is no one understands the importance of the pecking order yeah right there has to be a private Corporal a sergeant a captain a major there has to be a pecking order now everyone wants to be in charge yeah and it don't work that way yeah you're all into fighting each other and that's what makes it easy at the end of the day also like whatever the wages are you come and work and so you give eye perfectly everyone gets 100 pound each if you're that you're running that gaffe and that's your security weather and you get like three grand it's that's what they come and work for they're under quid but not to be a partner and tell you that we want more money and that's what happens as well they forget that they're being put there by us and then they think they've got the the I'll shoot again what you're getting I'm standing there no that's what you would then use first of all I didn't know you knew words not hypothetically very impression yeah if you're gonna do a bank robbery the driver gets that much and he don't can't ask for a more because he's just a driver the boat that runs in and does the bit of work gets that much the bloke that's on the inside job the Inside Man and the job gives that much and again through planned it all gets that much you know you're all on different wages you ain't all Partners you're all you know it's the same there will be some people who are you right amen and you need that because they are they your arm they they only and you will you give them extra dough but they've deserved that but but majority of them they want to be normal and become work and that's why I don't ask why they're called soldiers yeah all the same yeah it's just good you've got different talents he's just a soldier yeah in an army you're not all cracked shots one have used to cook one of your drives of Lorry one of your builds a bridge one of you drives a submarine one of you buys an airplane one abuse and ambulance bro yeah you're all soldiers you're all good your own little bit of thing that makes an army that's that's what my firm is yeah it's a very famous doorman he was everything he'd done he was was a little vacuum right about everything everybody wrestling wrestling wrestler absolutely fantastic fighter as a doorman courageous to the point very dry yeah yeah you're brave to the point of stupidity yeah but he ended up just going out to the um Arizona desert with no water and nothing just walked as fast in the middle of the desert and just set them work actress and died you're joking man that's how we killed himself and he was on News at 10 and everything he was in Harry Potter every top doorman there yeah I met him at that night the night I met him with you when there was a shooting I'm lying on the floor old needs an egg and he's standing there like that Cowboys he was like a bit of a biker like in his day you know what I mean how big was he big lumps he had some good stories but like he has to go on his toes but people don't know about but did you ever come across Lenny McLean yeah did you yeah I I didn't like leaning he didn't like it I think he's a bully I like Roy yeah basically out of those two who'd you reckon would win a fighter so I think I've always had the biggest heart but Lenny was and then they had the size yeah he was like he said that that little lady was a bully finger I've been asking if you have a week right he weren't actually bully bully all the time it's all of us every one of us in certain company you can get a little bit yeah yeah you know when the whole world's going well and you've just wrote a book called The Governor which is a very big pedestal to sit upon you know I mean yeah it's a big but sometimes you can fall into the Trap maybe you've been a little bit but he weren't actually an horrible nasty bully to everyone he may weren't true he was a debt collector you you don't get nice polite debt collectors you know the geese that you're going to get the money off will fix your pulley right he was a he was one of the best debt collectors there has ever been everyone bullying it's a job you're knocking on someone's door go and give me the money you owe yeah I'll break you in half I'll hurt you right he'd call it bullying you know it's a job yeah yeah you don't mean I love watching me I'm a big boy Adventure but they're joking you know Lenny was a fighter right Roy was a criminal yeah Roy was Aid armed robber criminal bank robber he shoot you right now that could also have a Rel let's how old are we we're both in our 60s what's it like what's it like what's it like what's it feel like being in your 60s yeah I hate you yeah yeah you're not getting your aches and pains and all that [ __ ] it's not nice but we've had a very good life we can't actually both live a very eventfulness I'm still here alive but I've I'm not marrying a bit I wouldn't change another day to be nicer now I'm old or feel a lot better now I looked after my body better to have a little bit of bedtime now I'm 60 and 70. yeah I'm glad I've grabbed it as hard as I did for as long as I did when we did do you think you're still lucky to be here I know I'm lucky to be here at 63 yeah yeah I don't actually want to be here when I'm 75 and all that would you like it in a beaker Mr God I don't know actually looking forward to walking there yeah I'm enjoying everything yeah the reputation that we have had when we was active they still want to have a fight with you now yeah not everyone runs out and goes I know Dave loved your book yeah hello Carlton great but I still want to they still want to take a picture of course they do yeah there's a scalp in it you know is that same with you as well Cole Africans guy gets more of that than what we're saying because I'm like sort of I mean like he's more of a show like he's like excess more accessible but like I don't trust he does pies and everything see I don't trust all people like loads of people around me I only trust people I know that's that's the way I am but I think yeah and look listen one it's someone always wants to be at Dave Courtney or Carlton leech and and even if they're like 18 19 they're sort of Liberty out with an old man yeah did you get me but all the old kids now none of them from foreign's got any advice for the 20 year olds now getting into that criminal underworld done was it's changed me for now guys it's stiff and well done it's not even about it's not even now you're being left interested it's a culture world now yeah because the cultures have took over the world like that you know you don't you can't go these areas because that's where the Somalians are or the West Indians yeah it's an essay is sectioned off the world's London it's becoming like ghettos in it if you know what I mean whereas we in air day yeah we could roam around London you're old is different everyone knew everyone and I think it's more going through a trans transgressional period the British underworld is going through a very um about Erasure violence level is going up you know the old London gangsters there'll be their rules and the way they are yeah they are dying breed yeah they're a little Romantic Era do you think do you think London's getting naughtier and naughtier as times going on what does it mean by naughtier there was more punch-ups at football every Saturday night it weren't an easy thing but nowadays they're coming into this country by the weight not one or two or three or four they're coming in by half a ton that's how they buy firearms I have half a tons worth or I'll have two ton or I'll ever turning off yeah right not how many are they buying it at least coming into this country by the ton is there if you look if you were going to go back and relive your life again would you be living your life in your 20s 30s or 40s or 50s something you can see like my I've got two like two lives like mine's my Football Life which I'm obsessed with yeah so for me I would always go back into my 20s fighting on the services I can't help myself that was my thing yeah you know but uh would be my Pinnacle yeah that was when I was earning money doing the Raves Thunder yeah and when it all started happening for me driving the Rolls Royce buying the castle Yeah Yeah he said that that but after saying that my 50s was really early yeah yeah my 20s was sexy yeah my 30s was my favorite but there's been there's been nothing wrong with being from 50 to 60. I'm still I'm fully aware that I'm living a much better more entertaining happier more fulfilled life than most of you people I know yeah I'm still enjoying myself a lot better than everyone I'm looking at you understand me I'm still getting the doors opened and learning a few quid and the opportunities to go Here There and Everywhere at my age now I'm I'm still reaping the benefits of the Dave Courtney of old but you also get the crosses as well yeah like I say you get away with it at the time the crime you might get away with it and the knock you always and all that and you make yourself a bit Infamous but the the authorities never forget it they will make you pay for being Dave called New York Owen every opportunity they get continually I'm still waiting to get my driving license back after 14 years yeah which they won't give me it back they give me a hair follicle test every time I've got to get my license back and they go nope you've had this or you've had that in the last six months I shaved all I told you I shaved all under my arms shaved my chest went to go and get me driving license and they went oh your shaver is cool now went yeah he said okay drop the trousers turn around he took one out of my [ __ ] pushed me and took that and they said because I've got a driving license the mobile phone steering wheel the people used to have proper [ __ ] yeah you had a phone up your ass in prison years ago right when phones were like quite big you understand what I mean you had to have one of them at your ass now that you can get two or three I'll tell you a funny story I don't know if I told you it's one point I was in prison enough to borrow someone's phone to you who's just all wrapped it was a flip phone and he's got it on vibrate so it's all wrapped up being claim film and I've undone it made the phone call ratch I've been dream film again that's I've shot it I've turned it from the Vibra fire break to ring you snap inside my house I'm in the queue in the guinea queue I'm standing in the [ __ ] dinner queue and we also win I was like Jesus now I'm trying to hide the fact that he's making all that noise as the noise was going I was going oh excuse me I'm gonna [ __ ] myself trying to run out but me [ __ ] is there is there anything at the moment in your 60s now you lay it you lay in bed at night and have any regrets after that which I'm ugly [ __ ] bird s yeah I think they're asked to be but I can't remember Mark you know from there has to be yes yeah I'll just uh I don't know oh yeah it's I just you could sit there for [ __ ] for weeks and ends thinking about everything he regrets so the best thing is don't think about the regrets you know what I mean yeah you know this is like killing down you know you think [ __ ] I wish I'd done that this could be six months to diet but I think you just got to carry on every day yeah who you are and what you are yeah I've made some wrong decisions with certain women yeah snap yeah make some wrong decisions yeah but what you might regret today in time it might turn out to be a really good thing now you've done so you're regretting it now but after five years time we're waiting for the work everyone change you ain't regretting it it was a touch so you understand I mean what you're regretting at the time at certain time so in fact I've got no big holes in me I haven't done 25 years ain't prison you know I mean I ain't got the terrible regression I've made some silly decisions that at the time they were the right one or four you're talking about make regrets for women and stuff how many kids you've got caught one with how many different women about 10 without women Dave oh come here that's what I was gonna say that come here I I am I I salutator my 12th grandchild amazing three months ago yeah another grandson amazing ten different ten kids with eight different women wow well I think there was a couple of more that I bumped into along the way six and three women six and three women I say are you both at peace right now in your 60s moving on and what what's the future hold for you both I get frustrated now at my age yeah I think frustration like I let things go that I wouldn't have done when I was younger and that frustrates me I get angry with myself do you understand sometimes I understand what you mean are there people to do things that I wouldn't have done years ago but obviously because we're older and then I think like they send your clients your weakness but that's that's my only thing but it's it's called growing old you've got to accept the fact you know I mean you do change but I still get annoyed myself yeah but that's what you know that is the anger that keeps you alive yeah I need that anger we'll keep you going well I need I need it yeah I need you to make me go I can't do things yeah you don't know I'm quite happy with my little life at the moment yeah is it calm yeah because I mean every day yeah you need you need a mistake mate you go yeah yeah when I when I [ __ ] up I need to be angry myself not get on the phone I have to do like the trouble with being at me or him is people won't give you certain good bits of advice they'll let you go on and make that mistake because it's cold and I turned in what he's doing is wrong yeah yeah where they could have helped you understand what I mean so but I'm quite happy with what's happening with me at the moment I'm I'm involved in the bkb um bare knuckle box yeah and Jim at the moment Hey listen um just being involved in there good luck watching everyone else by it and not having to do it myself yeah that's quite cool in it oh yeah I'll watch it I think jeez wow and they're not actually the old-fashioned thing of bare knuckle boxing Mr a big fat old Penny or a kind of um travelers all doing it these are now athletes these are now ex-european and British champion and you know this got you out to do it you know these are Fighting Machines but every time you get it you get cut it's bare knuckle you get you know proper Knockouts that hold that whole um combat sport thingy MMA and you know gladiatorial yeah I actually think the word is sexy to watch for a man or woman that is well you know I wish I could do that you know I couldn't do that when I was at my Prime and we were saying Carlton you're Epi in in where you're at now you've got all your grandchildren around you yeah well I said to you my priority now he's my my children lost out on my lifestyle and I said to you and my priority now is my grandchildren says I want them to talk for a dog a couple of nice stuff I want to be called Grant Gwen or Granddad here and I just want to be for what my dad was Harry I said to you before how my dad was with with my daughters and my family yeah they adored him and that's all I want yeah my grandkids come in they jump all over me and like mac about and all that you know lovely yeah lovely gents I've really enjoyed this it's been an absolute Blinder to have you both come down here in the studio down in Bournemouth Dave again cracky stories Carlton last couple of days I've enjoyed you yeah all right I've enjoyed you man cheers boys it's a good one today cheers cold yeah absolute pleasure good man cheers foreign

Channel: Dodge Woodall

Views: 184,606

Keywords: Carlton Leach, crime, criminal podcast, crime podcast, nightclub, boxing, bodyguard, London, police, gun, trauma, Dodge Woodall, James English, Dodge Woodall podcast, gangster, drugs, mystery podcast, mystery, sas podcast, gangster podcast, true crime, Essex boys, rise of the foot soldier, truth, James English podcast, Shaun Attwood, criminal, fighter, icf, west ham, hooligan, football hooligan, hardest man, toughest, toughest prisoner, ex, Dave Courtney

Id: uQ8zjrdfaEU

Length: 69min 43sec (4183 seconds)

Published: Wed Mar 08 2023