- Welcome to class. That doesn't... So I'm sitting on my phone trying to figure out exactly which method of setting a fence post is the best. I just got on YouTube and it looks like there's
three different ways. I'm coming up with: you have a wet set, you have a dry set, and now you have foam. I feel like I'm back in school
and I don't know what to do. Join me, and we're going
to find that out here today we have set up three different methods. We have set up a foam setting method, a dry pack method and a wet set method. We're going to set two
posts of each kind each way. So we're going to set three different ways and right behind me, we're
going to start that right now. (rock music) We have already premixed the concrete that we're going to use for our wet set. We've already filled this hole full, and now we're going to
fill this hole full. Since we're going to do it three times, two times per. We have six holes already dug. All the holes are dug to the same depth. All holes have the same diameter. The frost is 18 inches deep. All holes are going to
receive the same post. They're going to receive a two and three eighths SS 49 foot posts. (scraping sound) Each of these two holes have
four bags of concrete per hole. The concrete that we
have chosen to go with is this one right here by
sack Creek 60 pound bag four per hole. We're going to go ahead
and get these two wet set. If you want to go ahead and do it. This is my assistant
fluffy dragon. (laughs) It sounded good. (laughs) We're going to go ahead
and backfill the dirt and we're going to let these set There's no water in the hole whatsoever. So all we're, we're just
relying on the water. That's already in the soil. (bag rustling) Okay. So we got six and a half which would be three and a quarter. So we're going to do is we're
going to take some trust rod and we're going to use
that to stabilize our post to hold it level. We're going to use this
pre level at our posts. And so we can just pour
that foam in there. So this method, this method
works really good, especially if your core drilling or a
grouting posts in the concrete and you don't have time to sit there and hold each individual one you can do this method
and holds it for you. So the foam that we have here we have a part a, and a part B. If we mix all of that, we're
going to have too much. And we're going to have a
big foam catastrophe here. So what we have here is
we measured the height in the bucket of each, and
we're going to mix exactly half on half of part A and
part B, and we have a line - Of each what - Of part A and part B and we have a line of part A, and part B on the inside of this bucket. So I'm not just making
up a willy nilly mixture. We're taking half of one part
and half of the other part. So we're going to take part A and we're going to mix it up
until it lines up on that line. And I have exactly half and half. So I'm going to pour
the other half and this and Andrew's going to
get ready at the drill. As soon as this stuff starts reacting and starts looking like the foam this is very thick and nasty, safety glasses, chemical resistant gloves. Here we go. (drill wiring) - It's getting bigger as we speak - It is, it is. I guess, if we need to top it off we can mix the rest of it. So this method, this method and I'm pretty sure we can
get a lot better at it. It's pretty messy. All right. So out of these three methods
that we did, we have the foam. I mean, that's pretty solid. I wouldn't go refund on it by any means because that's not going to be fair to the other two methods
that we tried, but I mean we can still see that we have a result look at that ones Yea I can stand on that. And that's pretty neat,
messy, but pretty neat. We have the dry pack. I'm really interested to
see what happens here. Kind of interested that I think
is going to stay the same. I could be a hundred percent wrong. Maybe it'll be really, really hard. And then we have the traditional wet set. I know what happens with this but I want to compare this
to the other two methods. So join us in seven
days and we're going to discover together what happens. - Today is March 4th. It's super wet. It's about three weeks past
the time we set these posts. And in the meantime what happened is we got a huge snow storm. There's still snow. It's about 45 degrees today. There's lots of water. There's lots of frozen ground. We're going to see what
impact of frozen ground had on the regular concrete
and perhaps the foam. And then we're going to see what how the dry pack turned out
because we got a lot of water. So it had the best chance
possible to succeed. So we're going to dig these posts up. And the reason that
we're going to dig them up with an excavator rather than pull them as we want to actually see
what the concrete looks like what the foam looks like and
see if there was any impact then we'll tap on it with a hammer. And we'll see if that had an impact. Then the ones that are left,
the three that are left what we're going to do
is we'll just kind of see what it takes to
get that, to break free. See if we can get those
posts to break free by tapping them with a hammer. And then eventually
we'll just pull them out of the ground and see if
the concrete separates from the post or the foam separates from the post and find
out which one's easier. (machine digging) - Press it hard - That was some hard ground - So this is - Yeah that's frozen So foam - Dry pack. And wet set, is there
going to be any difference? - Now, I did notice when
we did the dry pack, they don't seem like all the Portland was going up to the surface. - Yeah, it could be. And you know the way we're going to know that - we're going to break it off - Is to break it open (sledgehammer banging off pole) - About what I would expect, honestly. So you can see, it just
looks more granulated. I would not call it soft. I've seen softer concrete. I think that you can, I think
the way to get even worse concrete than that, if you mix it too wet I think you could get
weaker, concrete than this. It was frozen to about right
here, that ground was frozen. So we'll see if the bottom
half comes off easier. I don't think it's gonna (sledgehammer banging off concrete) - Here we go. - I Just cracked it. - So I didn't notice any difference between the top and the bottom. As far as how easy, it broke. I noticed the hollow sound kind of like a it wasn't like solid. It wasn't ringing. It's not as firm. It's not as solid and
definitely not as high as PSI. I probably, if we took these down to a lab and we had them
do a compression test on it we'd probably find that the yield strength
is much lower than this. So when you mix the concrete right you get a higher yield strength. It's much like driving
a post in the ground. Once you get past about here if the grades up here about a foot down no matter how much that
post shakes the bottom really isn't seeing a whole lot action. Well, this isn't going
to be sidewalk grade or driveway grade concrete. What it's doing is it's getting
hard enough to actually bond to the post and hold the
post where it needs to be Ultimately is it getting harder
than the ground around it? I would have to say yes. If we drove this post in ground, this hard it would be in there very, very solid. It's not like this. Stuff's just completely crumbling. It's not super strong, but
it's definitely stronger than that ground that we put it in. The only thing you don't
know is what it's going to be like 10 or 15 years from now. This is probably going to degrade and crumble and deteriorate
faster over time. But chances are you're going
to be replacing the fence before that anyhow So - You want me to take a whack at that one? I can do that one - Sure - I don't want to have all the fun. (hammer ringing off concrete) So you noticed that ringing sound. That definitely has a more solid sound like a more solid sound
when he's hitting it. You can actually hear it
ring through the post. Let's continue that - This is taking a little
bit more work than that one. I think he cheated actually. He definitely did something. He's a cheater - Dude Come on, suck it let's go. Have you broke any of it off yet? - I got this piece right here. - Oh, that's it. - Okay. That frozen ground really
compromised that concrete This video is expensive. SD cards aren't cheap. You either need to learn to be smaller. So you take up less file
space or work faster. (panting) Okay. We can't have you being
all big and working slow - Sorry. Sorry. (Hammer banging off concrete) - Oh, you got a piece yay! (Exhaling in frustration) Yay Dan! (clapping) (sledgehammer ringing off concrete) - Well, I catch my breath. Dry pack on crate is
definitely not as hard as what wet set. The frost was probably down to here. I'm going to say that had little to no effect on the
strength of this concrete. So if you're an engineer
and you're thinking well I gotta have those guys take a bunch of special measures and
stuff to put that concrete in the frozen ground, please reconsider. I have never found a
post that we could put into frost that has
ever failed prematurely. Oh, you got a piece that
wasn't in frozen ground either. Just, you know, that piece was
definitely in thawed grounds. - I got a piece. - Yay! (machine banging off concrete) (sledgehammer ringing off pole) - If you look at it you
can tell that one's uncured and one is cured so that you can see that
it's still trying to cure because it's still the dark gray. You can see the water still in it. This one over here, you can
see it's actually starting to turn the standard color of a sidewalk. So it's starting to turn
that more cured, gray color because it was mixed wet. It was wet set. There's different between The concrete, from the
very bottom of the post which that's from the very
bottom and the very top they look exactly the same. And they're just equally as hard. - The frost and compromise
that should have broken. - It should have crumbled real easy - Should have. - Okay. (saw wiring) I am not seeing anything on the foam different from the top
to the bottom either. So this foam came from
our local utility service. They use it in all their utility poles. So in a lot of ground nowadays they're just saying heck with the tamping and they're just filling
the holes full of foam. So this foam is going
to be very comparable to your Sitka foam or your post-loss foam. We just got it from the utility company because we needed some in a rush. So, but I don't see any evidence that the frozen ground has
had any impact anywhere on this foam. I'm not noticing any discoloration. I'm not noticing any soft spots, nothing. So it's going to cure on the whole. It does probably give off its own heat. I would imagine this is an
excellent thermic reaction much like concrete curing. And that's something we
didn't talk about either the concrete curing is
an exothermic reaction. So there is, it does provide some of its own heat plus the ground around it is going to give it insulation. So it's not going to get more frozen. And I think that's why
you see this concrete not being compromised by the frozen ground. One of the things to think
about is the utility companies. now, a lot of them are going to foam filled utility
pole, utility poles. I would consider a utility
pole or a power pole much more critical than a fence post. If those things fall over or they fail it's going to be much
more, much more costly. If it's something that
our utility companies have decided is okay to use. Then I would say that we're safe to use it in the fence industry. And we are seeing that that it's yielding some
pretty good results. The one thing I do want
to test is I want to test that side loading
but same thing there. If you think about those utility lines and the wind's blowing, I mean, it's they've got some in there
25 feet up in the air. There's a lot of side
loading on those utility posts trying to work that
foam free of that pole. And if they have faith in it I think we can safely develop some faith in it, in the fence industry. So, so this one, this and
fluffed a little bit more - This one fluffed a little bit more. - It fluffed So we did get some good flu fidge You can trim that off with the sawzall or something like that. If this is, if this is
going to be somebody's fence so let's shake it, shake it Dan here get on it - Which way you want to go. - Can you pull it out? Pull it out. - Yeah, I can't do that. - Yeah. If I can't rotate
it, I can't pull it out. Wack it. - Wack it? - Wack it, hit it. - Hit it with your purse. - I'm getting wet. We're going to add gravity. - I don't see it moving. Put your blade down. You're still cheating. There you go. (machine squeaking) Really? There's always gotta be that one kid. So if you're wondering
why we chose to hit these posts with the
sledgehammer, that vibration actually sends a
shockwave and has the best chance of breaking that free
of the surrounding material. So whether it be foam or concrete we see that a lot when we
are jack hammering concrete off a post. So if we hit the actual metal it'll send a vibration,
a shockwave through the post and it'll crack that
concrete really well. So we're just trying
to give these the best chance to break free of
the concrete and fail. So that's all this is about. (sledge hammering) I think I probably broke the top two. Oh, I can't pull it out. We're going to need a lot of negative g's Luckily we have a negative
G machine right here. Oh, we did get it to fail! All right. Go for it. I think you're going
to have to rip it off. You might want to stand
back. In case it oops There we go. There you have it. We're talking about shared bonding power. Obviously the foam is the weakest. The dry pack is the second best. And the wet set concrete is the best. And we've proved that in almost every case it took us a lot more work
to get the dry pack post out of the concrete. When we started pulling on it ended up just ripping the post
out with the frozen ground. It's just not going to come
out on the wet site, concrete. We couldn't get it to fail. The concrete's bound to it
harder, but in a natural setting. I think it's very safe to say that any one of these is going to hold
up to nature's elements. Do you have any, do you
disagree with that assumption or you disagree with that statement? - I one hundred percent agree. The one thing I would caution
people on this is the thought that you can use one bag
of concrete to do the job. I still believe that you
need to have concrete from the very bottom of
your hall all the way up to just within a couple
inches of the top of the hole. When you're thinking about your next project,
here's your options. Now, you know which one may be the best which one might not work as well for you. The foam is a lot harder to deal with because you don't have like this. We can raise and lower our posts. This again is going to be something you either need to set your
post hall and cut it off. Or you've got to be dead on and know what your elevations
need to be at each post as you set it So until next time you
have a good dang day. - Yeah, that's the thought - This is a donut - It's for, if you hurt your posterior you can put that in your chair. - Well, yes. - Go ahead sit on it - Precisely. Well, I'm gonna get my seat
all dirty actually. Hold on.
Replaced a lot of fence post (small jobs only) and bought a stainless steel hand digger and is too heavy. One hole gets ya tired. My guess in the plastic post and standard concrete is hell good. New wood today is shit. Don't even trust the pressure treated posts. Time will tell, this is a small town (minus students), people remember who did what.
Might get one cuz will always do small jobs and mostly work alone.
https://www.amazon.com/one-man-post-hole-digger/s?k=one+man+post+hole+digger
When I was young he was in the AC business.... I learned how to run duct in hot attics.... and the misery of fiberglass insulation. This was before flexduct, and everything was hard pipe and wrapped in that nasty shit.
Then he built Homes. (I was about 11 to 17) ...... I learned how to build homes, and thus built my own house in my early 20s. I've never made a house payment in my life. But that experience encompassed many trades. (Excavation, Masonry, Carpentry, Plumbing, Framing, Forming, Roofing, Insulation, Drywall, Electrical, HVAC, Painting, Flooring, Cabinets, etc.) These are all skilsets I have passed along to my kids while constantly working around my house. They enjoy the shit about as much as I did when I was doing for free.
Then he went back in the AC business (about the time I moved out)..... I learned how to service ACs .... but really only enough to service myself.
He also built some metal barns after he retired. But he no longer had access to my free labor, so that didn't last long.
We build a couple of fences for our neighbors back when we lived in the burbs. Mostly chain link.
When he moved out to the country we build a lot of fences / cross fences on his place. Mostly barbed wire.
The company I work for now does a lot of work in residential back yards, and we often have to take sections of wood fence down and replace to get our equipment in / out.
If someone wanted to start their own business ..... fence building is one that requires little investment in equipment. Most fencing supply places will work with you on credit. Of course I know a guy that owns a fencing supply business, and he also owns a bunch of fencing construction companies too, because they owed him so much money he took over ownership of their businesses when they couldn't pay their bills.