♪ WELCOME ONCE AGAIN TO FATHER SPITZER LOCATED AT INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. I'M DOUG KECK YOUR HOST AT EWTN STUDIOS AT THE MOTHER SHIP WHERE IT ALL STARTED IN 1981 WITH MOTHER ANGELICA'S GREAT VISION FOR THIS NETWORK THAT WE APPRECIATE YOUR ONGOING SUPPORT AND PRAYERS FOR. WE DEPEND ON YOUR FEEDBACK FOR THIS PARTICULAR SHOW. SEND US YOUR EMAILS. YOU KNOW CONTACT US ON FACEBOOK, TWEET US ON TWITTER. WE'RE CUTTING-EDGE HERE. WE HAVE THE MAGIS CENTER WEBSITE FOR ALL THINGS FATHER SPITZER. CHECK THAT OUT. AND FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM WE HAVE BEEN WORKING THROUGH THE crediblecatholic.com WEBSITE. WE WILL NEVER GET THROUGH IT BECAUSE HE KEEPS ADDING MORE STUFF TO IT BUT CHECK IT OUT AT crediblecatholic.com AND WE WILL TALK ABOUT HEAVEN AND GET INTO HELL. WE HAVE WONDERFUL BOOKS THAT WE TROUBLE HERE AT EWTN AND ONE IS ON BENEDICT UP CLOSE, 8 YEARS STUDY BY PAUL BADDE, WHO IS AN EXPERT ON THE PAPACY, A FRIEND OF POPE EMERITUS BENEDICT AND IT'S A WONDERFUL BOOK FOR ALL OF THOSE WHO REALLY ENJOYED READING THE GREAT THOUGHTS AND IDEAS OF BENEDICT. CHECK THAT BOOK OUT THROUGH OUR EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOG, ewtnrc.com IS THE PLACE TO CHECK THAT OUT. AND OF COURSE WE TURN ONCE MORE TO THE WEST COAST AND WE SEE FATHER SPITZER. WELCOME AND GREAT TO HAVE YOU AS ALWAYS FROM CHRIST CATHEDRAL, WHERE WE'RE ON THE CUSP OF THE JULY 4th, SO FOR THIS GREAT COUNTRY, THIS GIVES US THE FREEDOM OF RELIGION. NOT THE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP BUT THE FREEDOM OF RELIGION, RIGHT, SO WE CAN HAVE A SHOW LIKE THIS AND SO IF YOU WANT TO KICK THINGS OFF WITH A PRAYER. >> YOU BET. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. HEAVENLY FATHER WE GIVE YOU THANKS FOR ALL OF THE BLESSINGS YOU HAVE GIVEN US NOT ONLY OF THIS MINISTRY BUT THE BLESSING OF A COUNTRY IN WHICH WE ARE FREE ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO BROADCAST THAT MESSAGE. WE ASK YOU LORD TO BLESS OUR COUNTRY AT THIS TIME. BLESS ESPECIALLY OUR CULTURE AND HELP US TO ELEVATE IT. HELP US TO BE PARTICIPANTS IN THE ELEVATION OF THAT CULTURE. WE ASK YOU, LORD, TO PROTECT OUR FREEDOMS IN THIS COUNTRY AS SOME ARE TRYING TO DIMINISH THEM AND EVEN TRYING TO DIMINISH OUR PARTICIPATION SACRAMENTALLY IN OUR FREEDOM TO WORSHIP. SO WE ASK YOU TO BLESS DOUG AND MYSELF THIS DAY, OUR WHOLE AUDIENCE SO THAT EVERYTHING THAT WE DO AND SAY WILL BE BROUGHT TO FRUITION IN YOUR WILL FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR PEOPLE, YOUR CHURCH AND YOUR KINGDOM COME, THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD, AMEN. >> AND MARY, SEAT OF WISDOM, PRAY FOR US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND SON AND HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. >> AMEN. A A COUPLE OF THINGS COMING UP IN A COUPLE OF SECONDS THE CHRIST CATHEDRAL WILL BE HAVING THE BIG EVENT. YOU WILL BE PARTICIPATING IN THAT AS WELL. >> YOU BET. JULY 17th. I'LL BE THERE WITH BRYAN PATRICK AND -- >> DR. MATTHEW BRUNSON. >> THAT'S RIGHT. AND ALSO WE WILL BE GIVING AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT OF AN INTRODUCTION BUT YOU SHOULD STAY FOR THE WHOLE THING. YOU WILL BE QUITE MASTERFUL. >> CHECK IT OUT ON EWTN'S WEBSITE. YOU CAN FIND OUT FOR THE SPECIFIC TIME ON THE 17th. ALSO THERE'S THE NAPA CONFERENCE COMING UP WHICH WE HAVE BEEN PROMOTING AND IT'S A BIG CONFERENCE. AND I HAVE TO -- SELF CENTER-WSE I BROUGHT IT UP HERE, BECAUSE I GET TO GO AND WE'RE GOING TO DO A SHOW ON THAT FRIDAY AT THE 9th ANNUAL SUMMER CONFERENCE, SO PEOPLE SHOULD CHECK OUT THE WEBSITE THERE FOR FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THAT. IT MIGHT BE OF INTEREST, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE OUT ON THE WEST COAST. >> ABSOLUTELY. AND IN FACT IT WILL BE A LIVE SHOW WITH YOU AND ME. >> THAT'S RIGHT. EXACTLY. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID LET'S GET ON TO THIS LIVE SHOW, AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT KIND OF THE EDGE OF HEAVEN BUT WE HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FROM PRIOR PROGRAMS FIRST TO GET TO YOU TO KEEP TALKING ABOUT AND QUESTION SOMEONE WHAT WE'RE GOING TO. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, SINCE THE EUCHARIST IS OUR MEASUREMENT OF IMMORALITY WITHOUT WHICH THERE IS NO LIFE WITHIN US, DOESN'T IT FOLLOW THERE'S NO SALVATION OUTSIDE OF THE CHURCH SO THAT PROTESTANTS AND COUNTLESS OTHERS WILL NOT BE SAVED. DAVID FROM QUEEN CREEK ARIZONA. IT SOUNDS LIKE A PHONE UNITE UNDERSTANDING. MAYBE YOU CAN EXPLAIN THAT? >> WELL, DAVID, AS YOU MIGHT KNOW, THE 2ND VATICAN COUNSEL HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR ON THE FACT THAT CHRIST'S SALVIFIC ACT ON THE CROSS IS FOR EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING. AND IT SPECIFIES IN WHAT IS CALLED THE DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION OF THE CHURCH, CALLED LUMENS GENTIUM, THAT EVERY PERSON WHO IS SEEKING GOD AND TRYING TO FOLLOW GUIDE BY THE LIGHT OF HIS OWN CONSCIENCE THAT THAT PERSON IN THAT GENUINE SEEKING CAN INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD THROUGH THE SALVIFIC ACT OF JESUS CHRIST AND THAT IS FURTHER DEMONSTRATED IN THE PASSION CONSTITUTION OF THE CHURCH. THAT IS THE FIRST PART. I MEAN IT SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT DEDUCTIVE ARGUMENT. THE PROBLEM WITH YOUR ARGUMENT THOUGH IS, EVEN THOUGH THE EUCHARIST IS OUR -- AS CATHOLICS AND AS BELIEVERS IN JESUS CHRIST IT IS THE MOST SALIENT WAY OF HAVING ETERNAL LIFE THERE'S NO RESTRICTION THAT SOMEBODY WHO HAS NOT RECEIVED THE EUCHARIST CANNOT MOVE INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD. NEVERTHELESS TO RECEIVE THE LORD IN YOU AND BE TRANSFORMED FROM HIS HEART BY HAVING THIS EUCHARISTIC GIFT IS NOT ONLY THE SUREST WAY TO GET INTO THE KINGDOM O GOD BUT ALSO THIS IS PURIFYING US AT THIS MOMENT. THE FREER WE ARE AND THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE HOLY EUCHARIST TO BECOME TRANSFORMED IN THE HEART OF CHRIST, THE MORE AND MORE WE IN OUR FREEDOM ARE BEING PREPARED FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, WHICH MEANS WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE TO DO IT IN PURGATORY. SO THE IDEA IS, LET'S INTRODUCE EVERYBODY TO THE HOLY EUCHARIST. LET'S INTRODUCE EVERYBODY TO A WORTHY RECEPTION OF THE HOLY EUCHARIST AND HOW THEY CAN BE MORE FREELY ACCEPTING OF THE GRACE OF THAT EUCHARIST SO THEY CAN COOPERATE WITH IT SO THEY CAN BE MORE AND MORE TRANSFORMED IN THEIR FREEDOM AND IN THEIR PRAYER TOWARD THE KINGDOM OF GOD. AND SO -- BOY, I WOULD NEVER EVER IN A SINGLE MOMENT EVER, YOU KNOW, NOT TELL SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF RECEIVING THE HOLY EUCHARIST, WHY WOULDN'T YOU, IF YOU HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF DEFINITIVE ABSOLUTION IN THE SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION, WHY WOULDN'T YOU? WHICH, OF COURSE, BACK TO MY COLLEGE DAYS I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE WOULDN'T ABOUT CATHOLIC. I JUST DON'T GET IT. WHAT DO YOU WANT? DO YOU WANT MORE EXCITING MUSIC AT MASS? OR DO YOU WANT SOME DOCTRINES -- MORAL DOCTRINES THAT WILL BE MORE CONFORMING TO THE CULTURE? THIS IS HARDLY A REASON TO GIVE UP THE TWO BEST GIFTS THAT JESUS EVER GAVE TO ANYONE. AND, BY THE WAY, THE SCRIPTURURAL PRECEDENT IS SO CERTAIN THAT JESUS INTENDED HIS REAL PRESENCE IN THE EUCHARIST, AND WE HAVE GONE OVER IT BEFORE IN THIS PROGRAM AND SO CERTAIN THAT WHEN HE GAVE HIS DISCIPLES THE GIFT, RIGHT, IN JOHN'S GOSPEL, JOHN 21, GAVE THEM THE TWIST TO FORGIVE SINS, TO FORGIVE SINS, IT'S SO CERTAIN THAT HE IS INTENDING DEFINITIVE ABSOLUTION. THERE'S JUST NO WAY YOU CAN -- I MEAN YOU HAVE TO BEND OVER BACKWARDS AND DO BACKWARDS SOMERSAULTS TO GET OUT OF THAT INTENTIONNALITY. SO IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE IN JESUS AND YOU REALLY BELIEVE IN THE SCRIPTURURAL WORDS THAT HE HAS TODAY IN TERMS OF -- I THINK THE HOLY EUCHARIST AND THE SALVIFIC ACT THROUGH THE CHURCH IS THE BEST MEANS NOT JUST TO GET INTO SALVATION BUT IT'S THE BEST MEANS OF BEING PURIFIED BEFORE WE GET TO SALVATION. WHY WOULDN'T WE WANT TO DO THIS? YOU WANT TO GIVE THIS UP FOR SOME BETTER MUSIC OR SOMETHING? I MEAN, I JUST CAN'T EVEN GET IT. IN COLLEGE I JUST SAT THERE AND I JUST SCRATCHED MY HEAD AND I SAID -- THERE'S JUST NO WAY I WOULD NOT BE A CATHOLIC. NOW, I WAS KIND OF DEVOTED ON TO HAVE TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS WHISTLES THERE BECAUSE I HAD FRIENDS THAT WERE NEEDLING ME AND SO FORTH AND SO ON BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU IN ALL ANTS I HAD NO DOUBT AND I WAS LUCKY TO BE BORN IN A CATHOLIC FAMILY AND LUCKY THAT MY MOTHER WAS A DAILY COMMUNICANT BUT I HOPE I SERVE THE LORD WELL BY HAVING THIS OWN GOOD FORTUNE IF MY LIFE. BUT WHY WOULDN'T YOU. >> THE OTHER PART OF THAT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE LESSON OF IMMORALITY -- OBVIOUSLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE OUTSIDE CAN BE SAVED. AND WHY CAN'T ANYBODY RECEIVE COMMUNION. WE HAVE THIS WONDERFUL GIFT. WHY DOESN'T WE OFFER IT TO EVERYBODY. >> FIRST OF ALL, WE NEED TO KNOW IN OUR HEART OF HEARTS THAT THIS IS THE REAL PRESENCE OF JESUS IN THE EUCHARIST. THAT'S THE FIRST THING. SO YOU HAVE TO DO THAT. AND WHEN YOU REALLY KNOW IN YOUR HEART OF HEARTS THIS IS REALLY THE EUCHARIST, AND THE EUCHARIST COMES TO US AS THE REAL BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH -- THAT'S THE WAY IT COMES, THEN WHY WOULDN'T YOU CONFESS JESUS WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BECAUSE THAT IS THE VEHICLE THROUGH WISH THAT SACRAMENT IS GIVEN. WHY WOULDN'T YOU DO IT? OF COURSE YOU CAN SAY WELL THERE'S FAMILY PROBLEMS OR IF I DID THAT I'D BE DIS OWNED OR. AND I SEE THESE THINGS. AND DESPITE THE DIFFICULTIES, EVEN IF YOU HAVE UNCERTAINTIES IN YOUR HEART, YOU THINK I HAVE TO GET AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION AND I HAVE GOT ANSWER TO THESE QUESTIONS. IF YOU ARE DEALING WITH UNCERTAINTY GO TO crediblecatholic.com AND GO TO THE BIG BOOK AND CHAPTER 9. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE EUCHARIST AND WHAT DID JESUS INTEND AT THE LAST SUPPER AND ALL ABOUT TRANCE SUBSTANTIATION AND THIS IS ALL ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE LITURGY IN THE 1 THROUGH THE 4th CENTURY AND IT'S ALL ABOUT THE APOSTLES AND ET CETERA AND ET CETERA AND EVERYTHING IS THERE, EVERYTHING YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW. GO TO crediblecatholic.com, GO TO CHAPTER 9 AND HAVE A FIELD DAY. YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE UNCERTAINTIES AND THE SAME THING WITH THE RECONCILIATION. READ VOLUME 10 IN THE BIG BOOK. IT'S ALL THERE. AT THE END OF IT THERE'S A WHOLE THING CALLED WHY BE CATHOLIC. JUST READ THAT. BECAUSE I HAVE TO TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, THERE IS REALLY GOOD REASON TONIGHT TO BELIEVE A CATHOLIC AND GIVING UP THAT BECAUSE YOU WANT A MORE SENTLATING HOMINY -- IF YOU WANT MORE IN YOUR HOMILY GO TO A MASS WITH A PREACHER LIKE ME, WITH ALMOST LIKE A BAPTIST PREACHER. AND IF YOU WANT BETTER LITURGIES THERE'S ALL TYPES THAT HAVE GREAT MUSIC. THIS IS NOT THE REASON TO GIVE UP THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. UNCERTAINTY IS NOT THE REASON TO GIVE UP THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. I MEAN THE GROUNDING -- IT'S HISTORICAL GROUNDING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND -- YOU KNOW MY THOUGHT IS: STICK WITH IT. THAT'S WHAT YOU REALLY WANT. BUT IF SOMEBODY NEVER HEARD OF JESUS OR OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND DOESN'T GET IT AND THEY'RE STILL TRYING TO FOLLOW GOD ACCORDING TO THE DICTATES OF THEIR ACTION. THEY HAVE ACCESS TO AFTER LIFE GOD. AND WE CAN THROUGH THE SACRAMENT AND THROUGH THE TEACHING OF THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE INTERPRETATION OF JESUS' OWN WORDS, WE GET THERE MOST ASSUREDLY BY FOLLOWING THAT, AND CAN ENTER INTO THE PROCESS OF PURIFICATION RIGHT HERE AND NOW, AND WHY WOULDN'T WE WANT TO DO THAT. >> WELL YOU'RE RIGHT AND IT SOUNDS VERY CONVINCING AND THEN THE QUESTION IS, WHY IS THE SECOND LARGEST RELIGIOUS GROUP IN THE UNITED STATES EX CATHOLICS? NOT ONLY PEOPLE WHO NEVER FOUND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BUT ACTUALLY IN SOME WAY FOUND IT WANTING ENOUGH TO LEAVE? >> WELL I THINK YOU HAVE A VARIETY OF DIFFICULTIES. I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE LEFT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FOR REALLY BOGUS REASONS. YOU KNOW. >> WELL I DIDN'T GET ANYTHING OUT OF MASS. WELL DID YOU TRY ANY OTHER CATHOLIC MASS? THERE'S LIKELY TO BE AT ANY MEDIUM SIZED CITY 150 CATHOLIC CHURCHES AROUND. DID YOU EVEN TRY, YOU KNOW, TO DO THAT. BUT THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS PEOPLE LEAVE. A SECOND BIG REASON WE KNOW PEOPLE LEAVE TODAY IS BECAUSE -- THAT'S YOUNG PEOPLE NOW, MILLENNIALS, AS THE PUGH SURVEY TELLS US IS BECAUSE OF THE FAITH AND SCIENCE PROBLEM AND THAT'S WHY WE STARTED THE MAGISER AND CREDIBLE CATHOLIC WAS TO GIVE THE EVIDENCE FOR GOD, THE SOUL, JESUS AND THE CHURCH THROUGH SCIENTIFIC VALIDATION AND YOU YOUCAN GO TO crediblecatholic.cm AND GO TO THE BIG BOOK AND CLICK ON VOLUMES ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR AND FIVE. AND IF YOU WANT THE MIRACLES -- NO, ONE-5 HAS EVERYTHING, THE MIRACLES, THE SHROUD OF TURIN, EVIDENCE FOR GOD FROM CONTEMPORARY PHYSICS AND IT GOES THROUGH THE BOARD OF -- THERE'S EVIDENCE OF GOD FROM CONTEMPORARY, PHILOSOPHY KEL PROOF -- THERE'S SO MUCH THERE. THE MAIN THING OF COURSE, BUT IT IS A REASON AND A LOT OF KIDS TODAY ARE LIVING FOR THAT REASON, NOT SO MANY ADULTS ARE REFUGEE FOR AT THAT TIME REASON BUT THE KIDS. BUT THERE ARE ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS. THAT'S 50 PERCENT OF THE 42 PERCENT WHO WILL LEAVE ARE WORRIED ABOUT FAITH AND AND SCIENCE VALIDATION OF GOD AND THE SOUL AND JESUS THROUGH SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION. THE THIRD BIG VANE BECAUSE THERE'S DISAGREEMENT WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT MORAL ISSUES. THE MAIN THING THOUGH IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS NOT JUST SPEAKING ABOUT THESE MORAL ISSUES, JUST, YOU KNOW DULAC VACUUM. EVERY SINGLE MORAL DOCTRINE IS DERIVATIVE FROM THE TEACHING OF JESUS HIMSELF AND THE TEACHING OF JESUS AND ALSO THE TEACHINGS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FROM ST. PAUL AND ST. PETER AND OTHERS. SO THIS IS NOT LIKE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SUDDENLY MADE UP SOMETHING ONE DAY. BUT THERE ARE SOME AGREEMENTS, BUT WAIT A MINUTE. AND AGAIN THIS GOES BACK TO MY COLLEGE DAYS. IF I'M GOING TO PICK A CHURCH I'M GOING TO PICK A CHURCH THAT IS TRYING TO AUTHENTICALLY INTERPRET THE WORDS OF JESUS AND NOT JUST TO GLAZE THROUGH IT OR SHINE IT ON OR INTERPRET IT IN I OLD WAY, TO DO A JESUS SEMINAR DEAL, TO KIND OF MAKE IT PALATABLE FOR THE CONTEMPORARY CULTURE. WE HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE. DO YOU WANT TO FOLLOW JESUS WHO IS THE SON OF GOD AND GAVE A LOT OF REASONS WHY THIS IS TRUE, EVEN SCIENTIFICALLY VALID ONES WHY THAT IS TRUE; OR DO YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IN THE CULTURE? OR IF THE CULTURE IS SO RIGHT, WHY ARE THE SUICIDE RATES HIGHER THAN THEY HAVE EVER BEEN? >> ABSOLUTELY. >> THEN WHY IN THE WORLD DO WE HAVE A CULTURE WHERE THE DEPRESSION PRESSION RATE IS NOW 40 PERCENT HIGHER THAN IT WAS JUST LIKE 20 YEARS AGO? AND WHY DO WE HAVAL A CULTURE WHICH IS MORE ALIENATED, MORE EMPTY, MORE LONELY THAN IT HAS EVER BEEN? AS THE CULTURE WE PARTS FROM GOD AND FROM JESUS CHRIST AND SPECIFICALLY FROM THE MORAL TEACHING OF JESUS CHRIST, WE ARE NOT GETTING HAPPIER. WE ARE NOT GETTING FREER. WE'RE NOT DOING WELL. WE HAVE GOT THE DEPRECIATION IMPULSE ASSIST TEE, ANTISOCIAL IMPULSE ASSIST TEE, HUGE INCREASES IN SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND DIVORCES AND HUGE INCREASES IN CHILDREN SUFFERING FROM ADHD AND DEPRESSION AND MUCH HIGHER LEVELS, HUGE TEEN SUICIDE RATES -- JUST LIKE 30 PERCENT INCREASE IN JUST SIX YEARS. I MEAN WHAT ARE WE KID WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE? DO YOU THINK THE CULTURE HAS THE TRUTH? THE CULTURE DOESN'T HAVE THE TRUTH. THE CULTURE HAS THE DARKNESS OF EVIL AND IT'S EMBEDDED IT'S INTO ITSELF SO DEEPLY THAT IT BELIEVES ALL OF THE DEVIL'S FALSE JUSTIFICATIONS FOR EVERYTHING THAT IT PREACHES AND IT DOES IT WITH A SANCTIMONIOUSNESS THAT JUST IS ABSOLUTELY STUNNINGLY NOT JUST HYPOCRITICAL BUT STUNNINGLY DUMB, STUNNINGLY BLIND. SO I JUST HAVE TO SAY THIS IS NOT TRUTH. TRUTH IS IN JESUS CHRIST AND WE JUST GOT TO MAKE A DECISION. SO IF YOU THINK JESUS IS WRONG ON THESE MORAL ISSUES AND HE'S THE ONE THAT STARTED THE CHURCH'S INTERPRETATION, IF YOU THINK HE'S SO WRONG, MY ONE THOUGHT IS, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THEN JUST EXPLAIN TO ME WHY WE ARE JUST CAT BOLTING DOWNWARD IN THE PSYCHIC LIFE AND IN THE PSYCHIC ENERGY AND CERTAINLY SKYROCKETING UPWARD IN DEPRESSION AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND SUICIDE AND EVERYTHING ELSE UNDER THE SON. WE'RE NOT -- THE CULTURE DOESN'- >> IT'S INTERESTING WHAT YOU SAID THAT STRUCK ME AND I REMEMBER THOSE OF US WHO HAVE BEEN EWTN FOR A LONG TIME WHEN MOTHER WALKED THE HALLS HERE AND ONE OF THE THINGS HE IS SAID OVER 20 YEARS AGO, THE DAY IS COMING WHEN YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO SIT ON THE FENCE ANYMORE. YOU HAVE TO DECIDE ARE YOU WITH CHRIST OR AGAINST HIM. THERE'S NO MUSHY MIDDLE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU IT'S GETTING CLOSER AND CLOSER TO THAT DAY, IF IT HASN'T ALREADY ARRIVED 10 YEARS AGO. I JUST HAVE TO TELL YOU. AND IF YOU CHOOSE CHRIST CAN I TELL YOU FROM MY OWN TESTIMONY, I SPEAK ONLY FOR MYSELF, THEN YOU CHOOSE LIGHT. AND IF YOU CHOOSE AGAINST CHRIST, YOU CHOOSE DARKNESS. AND YOU WILL NOTICE THE DARKNESS. AS JESUS SAID, HOW DARK WILL THE DARKNESS BE? YOU WILL NOTICE IT. AS I ALWAYS SAY THE MOZ KICK COMES IN ALIENATION, IN LONELINESS, RIGHT OUT OF FRANZ KAFKA'S THE TRIAL. LET'S FACE IT, YOU KNOW, THE EXISTENTIALISTS ARE TALKING OUT OF THEIR HEAD. HE SAYS IF GOD DOESN'T EXIST SO LIFE IS ABSURD. AND I'M GOING TO BE DEPRESSED AND I JUST HAVE TO FACE UP TO IT. I'M GOING TO HAVE SUICIDAL IDEATIONS UNTIL I COMMIT SUICIDE OR I DIE FIRST. BUT THE POINT OF COURSE IS, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY. THE EVIDENCE FOR GOD IS OVERWHELMING. WHY WOULD YOU BELIEVE DAY CARE SHARK NEVER MADE ONE SEARCH FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD OR ANY OF THE CONTRARY VALIDATION FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR OR FOR NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES OR ANY SCIENTIFICALLY VALIDATED MIRACLE. LET'S FACE FACTS. THE EVIDENCE RANGE FOR SARC'S LOGICAL PROBING OF GOD IS CHRIST NIL AND THE SAME WITH KAMU AND THE SAME WITH FRANZ KAFKA, WHOSE DYING WORDS ARE "DYING, LIKE A DOG." THAT'S THE END OF THE BOOK, RIGHT? WHY ARE YOU GOING TO PUT YOUR -- YEAH, WHEN YES, I WAS A KID IN HIGH SCHOOL. I WAS READING THOSE BOOKS. >> THOSE WERE ALL VERY POPULAR WHEN WE WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL. >> THEY SURE WERE. AND ASK I GOT ASSIGNED THOSE BOOKS AND A BOOK CALLED IDEAS IN WESTERN LITERATURE AND I WAS GOING OH, MAN THIS STUFF IS A CHALLENGE. AND I WENT AROUND SAYING DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY EVIDENCE FOR GOD HERE? AND PEOPLE WOULD SAY THAT'S A MYSTERY. AND MY MOM WOULD SAY JUST HOLD A BABY AND YOU WILL FIND OUT. AND I'M GOING, MOM, I'M HOLDING A BABY AND I'M NOT FINDING OUT. SO I HAD TO GO AND FIND OUT. BUT GOD GUIDED ME. I TELL YOU THAT. I FOUND, YOU KNOW, A PHYSICS PAPAL ON SINGLE LATER THEOREMS. I PASSED BY A METAPHYSICS CLASS WHERE THE PROF WAS PROVING THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. AND I STARTED BY SHEAR GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT I GOT FOR THE POINT WHERE I SAID I HAVE GOT TO SHARE THIS WITH THE WORLD. WHY DIDN'T I KNOW THIS WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND STRUGGLING. THAT'S WHY I STARTED MAGIS CENTER. AND IF YOU GO TO CREDIBLE crediblecatholic.com AND IF YOU KNOW KIDS UNDER 25 -- AND WHY NOT, OLDER KIDS OVER THE AGE OF 25 -- IF YOU KNOW PEOPLE JUST STRUGGLING WITH THEIR FAITH AND HAVE A FAITH SCIENCE PROBLEM, MY THOUGHT IS, PLEASE GO TO crediblecatholic.com AND INSTEAD OF CLICKING ON THE BIG BOOK CLICK ON THE BIG BUTTON THAT SAYS 7 MODULES AND YOU CAN WATCH THE VIDEOTAPES. IT'S 7 FORGIVE MINUTE VIDEOS. WATCH THEM AND THAT WILL BE YOUR CRASH COURSE OR YOUR KIDS CRASH COURSE IN THE EVIDENCE OF GOD FROM PHYSICS. AND THEN IF THEY SAY, HEY, WHERE IS THE ARTICLE FOR THIS? WHERE IS THE PROOF? YOU SAY THERE'S ALL OF THESE STUDIES IN NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS CLICK ON THE BIG BOOK, crediblecatholic.com, THE BIG BOOK. GO TO VOLUMES ONE, TWO, AND THREE. IT WILL BLOW YOU AWAY. THE EVIDENCE IS IN PEER-REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS. YOU CAN BELIEVE THE ARTICLES THEMSELVES. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE THE IMPEACHMENT. YOU CAN GO TO ARTICLES YOURSELF AND READ IT IF YOU WANT. MY POINT IS THOUGH THERE'S NO REASON TO BELIEVE THE CULTURE AND THE ATHEISTIC EXISTENTIALIST ARE RIGHT, IF GOD DOESN'T EXIST -- YOU HAVE COSMIC EMPTINESS, LONELINESS AND GUILT, YOU WILL BE ALIENATED FROM YOURSELF. THEY'RE RIGHT. BUT GOD EXISTS. SO NONE OF THAT IS NECESSARY. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS FOLLOW HIM AS HE HAS REVEALED HIMSELF DEFINITIVELY THROUGH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST WHO GAVE US PLENTY OF EVIDENCE THAT HE REALLY IS RISEN AS HE PROMISED. >> VERY GOOD. WE HAVE A COUPLE OF MINUTES BEFORE OUR BREAK. FATHER SPITZER, LOVE YOUR SHOW. I'VE READ NONCATHOLICS CAN, IF THEY TRY TO LIVE THEIR LIVES TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY, ENTER HEAVEN. WE TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFORE. WHAT ABOUT THE EXTREME CASES WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMMITTING IN INTRINSICALLY WRONG ACTS IN THE NAME OF WHAT THAT HE WILL TO BE THE TRUTH. WHAT ABOUT 9/11? WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR TERRORISTS TO ENTER HEAVEN IF THEY BELIEVE THEMSELVES TO BE DOING GOOD? THIS IS FROM NATE. >> NATE HERE IS THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION. FIRST OF ALL AS WE SAID EARLIER, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES TEACH THAT IN THE DOGMATIC VERSION OF THE CHURCH AND ALSO IN THE PASS CONTROVERSIAL CONSTITUTION OF THE CHURCH, SO, YES, NONCATHOLICS CAN ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD. NOW WE HAVE THIS OTHER DOCTRINE ABOUT MORTAL SIN. WHAT YOU CAN SAY IS -- YOU PHRASED IT RIGHT. YOU'RE TALK BE ABOUT ENTRY INTRINSICALLY WRONG THINGS. TERRORIST ACTS ARE TERRIBLY WRONG ACTS. DID THE TERRORISTS COMMIT A MORTAL SIN WHEN HE DID IT? IT WOULD REQUIRE SUFFICIENT REFLECTION, THAT IS TO SAY, A ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS AN INTRINSICALLY WRONG ACT AND FULL CONSENT OF THE WILL -- THAT IS TO SAY THAT THERE ARE NO IMPEDIMENTS TO THE FREE USE OF THE WILL. AND THE CHURCH VERY CAREFULLY SAYS, NO ONE CAN MAKE THAT DETERMINATION EXCEPT THE PERSON THEMSELVES AND GOD. GOD IS THE ULTIMATE JUDGE OF THAT PERSON'S CONSCIOUS. SO I CAN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION FOR YOU BUT I COULD TELL YOU A TERRORIST WHO DID NOT HAVE ANY WRONGNESS OF THE INTRINSIC NATURE OF MURDER -- HARD TO BELIEVE. BUT EVEN SO LOOK AT THE KORAN, "THOU SHALL NOT KILL" IS STILL IN THE KORAN BUT I'M NOT THAT PERSON'S JUDGE. AND ALSO IF HE HAD NO FAULT CONSENT OF THE WILL. SO SOMEHOW IF HE WERE BRAIN WASHED BY SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE AND HE TRULY WAS BRAIN WASHED SO HE WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, A PERSON KIND OF SET ON A MISSION -- LIKE AN AWE TON TON -- >> RIGHT. LIKE WHAT WAS THAT MOVIE. >> THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE. >> THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE. EXACTLY. SO, YEAH, OKAY. MAYBE HE COULD GET TO HEAVEN. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. NOW DO I THAT MOST TERRORISTS HAVE NO IDEA THAT KILLING IS WRONG? DO I HAVE A SENSE -- NOW MANUFACTURE THEM, I CAN TELL YOU ARE PRETTY DARNED CLOSED TO BRAIN WASHED THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY KILL A LOT OF CHRISTIANS OR SOMETHING. >> THERE'S MISINTERPRETATIONS OF THE KORAN THERE RIGHT. EXACTLY. >> ABSOLUTELY. TOTAL MANIPULATIONS OF WHAT THE KORAN REALLY SAYS. NOW MY THOUGHT IS, IF THAT REALLY HAPPENED TO THAT PERSON, GOD IS HIS JUDGE. HE COULD GET INTO HEAVEN. BUT YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT HIDING BEHIND ALL OF THESE THINGS. BECAUSE IF IN YOUR CONSCIOUS YOU A AN IN COLLISION, BOY, KILLING A LOT OF PEOPLE SEEMS WRONG. >> AND THE IDEA OF JUDGING IN A SENSE THAT OBVIOUSLY THAT'S EVIN EVIL ACT, HOW THAT PERSON ULTIMATELY IS DEALT WITH BY THE LORD IS A DIFFERENT QUESTION OF JUDGMENT, AND THAT'S WHERE THE STIPULATION COMES IN. >> THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT. SO I MEAN -- YEAH -- >> SO BASICALLY THAT'S YOUR ANSWER, NATURE, AND I MEAN IT'S POSSIBLE BUT, BEWARE. >> OKAY. WITH THAT BEING SAID WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK. MUCH MORE AHEAD WITH FATHER SPITZER. I THINK WE'RE GOING TO GET SOME MORE QUESTIONS IN BEFORE WE TALK MORE ABOUT HEAVEN. STAY WITH US. ♪ ♪ >> WE'RE HERE IN THE HEART OF FATHER SPITZER'S UNIVERSE. HAPPY YOU ARE AS WELL. CONTINUING QUESTIONS WITH FATHER SPITZER AS WE REJOIN HIM OUT ON THE WEST COVE. WE HAD SOME FULL ANSWERS THERE ON A A COUPLE OF WEEKS AND -- A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. THERE WAS GOOD INFORMATION THERE. AND I PROTRACTED THINGS BY MY FOLLOW-UPS. HERE IS ONE FOR YOUR, FATHER, THAT I THINK IS INTERESTING . IT FITS INTO YOUR DISCUSSION WHICH WE PROBABLY WON'T GET TO THIS WEEK HAVE TO DO WITH HELL. BUT IT SAYS HI, FATHER, IF GOD KICKED LUCIFER OUT OF HEAVEN FOR DISOBEYING HIM, HOW -- WHAT WAS IT THAT LUCIFER REFUSED TO DO? THE WHOLE THING DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME BECAUSE OF THE DIFFERENCE IN HUMAN BEINGS AND ANGELS? IF LUCIFER HASN'T GOT KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN WOULD THERE EVEN BE A HELL? THIS IS ROBIN. >> A GOOD SET OF QUESTIONS. LET'S GO BACKWARDS FOR JUST A SECOND. FIRST WOULD THERE BE A HELL IF LUCIFER DIDN'T GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN? ABSOLUTELY THERE WOULD BE A HELL. WHY? BECAUSE WE ARE FREE AGENTS. NOW HOW DOES THAT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. IF WE'RE FREE AGENTS WE CAN CHOOSE TO GO THE WAY OF DARKNESS. THAT IS TO SAY THE WAY OF THE EIGHT DEADLY SINS. SO WE CAN CHOOSE, YOU KNOW, TO GO THE WAY OF LUST AND PRIDE AND ANGER ENVY AND GREED AND SLOTH AND SO FORTH. WE CAN CHOOSE TO GO THAT ROUTE. AND IF YOU CHOOSE LONG ENOUGH TO GO THAT ROUTE, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU? YOU'RE GOING TO BECOME ANNOYING CENTRIC, COME NEARING, SELF-WORSHIPING PERSON WHO IS GOING TO BE NOT ONLY DARK TO EVERYBODY ELSE AROUND YOU, NOT ONLY GOING TO BE HAY HATEFUL TO EVERYONE AROUND YOU, NOT ONLY DOMINATING EVERYONE AROUND YOU, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO BE HATEFUL AND DOMINATING TO YOURSELF. WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. SO YOU'RE GOING TO GET IT YOURSELF. SO THAT THE MAIN THING, OF COURSE, IS, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT YOU CAN CHOOSE IT. AND, OF COURSE, IT'S THEIR FOR YOU TO CHOOSE. WHY? BECAUSE YOU'RE FREE. ON THE OTHER HAND YOU YOU CAN SO YOU WOULD CHOOSE LOAFER OVER ALONG VENTRESS TEE AND NARCISSISM, I WOULD CHOOSE TO GIVE TO A COMMUNITY, BUILDS A COMMUNITY AND PARTICIPATES IN A COMMUNITY WITHOUT HAVING TO DOMINATE EVERYBODY AROUND ME, ET CETERA. AND, OF COURSE, DOMINATING MEANING TRYING TO BE THE CENTER OF THEIR UNIVERSE AND TRYING TO CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM BEYOND THE BOUNDS OF WHAT THE CREATOR HAS ANTICIPATED FOR US. AND FINALLY, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, SELF WORSHIP? NO. YOU CAN CHOOSE TO WORSHIP THE TRUE GOD INSTEAD OF WORSHIPING YOURSELF. AND IF YOU DO THAT, YOU MOVE TOWARD THE LIGHT. BUT, BOY, IF YOU DON'T DO THAT, IF YOU CHOOSE THE OPPOSITE, WELL, YOU MOVE TO THE DARKNESS. WHETHER OR NOT LUCIFER EXIST OR DOESN'T EXIST. NOW, GETTING BACK TO YOUR FIRST QUESTION, SO WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH THE ANGELS AND HOW ARE THEY DIFFERENT FROM HUMAN BEINGS? WELL THE ANGELS AND HUMAN BEINGS SHARE ONE THING IN COMMON. THEY, TOO, HAVE FREE CHOICE JUST LIKE WE DO. BUT ANGELS HAVE FREE CHOICE IN A DIFFERENT WAY BECAUSE THEIR INTELLECT IS DIFFERENT. AND BECAUSE THEY CAN INTUIT IN WAYS THAT WE CANNOT INTUIT, THEIR FREEDOM, YOU KNOW, IS TO A CERTAIN EXTENT MUCH GREATER THAN OUR OWN. THEY DON'T HAVE TO OVERCOME PROFOUND PROBLEMS OF IGNORANT THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A LEARNING SCALE WHERE THEY FIND OF MOVE UP, YOU KNOW, AS CHILDREN LEARN AND DISCOVER VIRTUE AND MAKE THEIR OWN MISTAKES AND DO THESE KINDS OF THINGS. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE AT SCALE UP THAT YOU HAVE WITH HUMAN BEINGS WITH ANGELS. THEY DO IT INTUITIVELY IN ONE FAIL SWOOP. IF THAT'S THE CASE WHY DID LUCIFER GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN? BECAUSE LUCIFER DECIDED WE HAD RATHER BE AN EGOMANIAC THAT DOMINATED EVERYONE AROUND HIM AND WANTED TO BE A SELF WORSHIPER, SAME AS I WAS SAYING ABOUT HUMAN BEINGS, BUT HE DECIDED TO DO IT IN ONE FLAIL SWOOP WHERE HIS PERFECT FREEDOM WAS PERFECTLY MANIFEST TO REALLY WANT DARKNESS, COME ANYWAY, EGOCENTRICKY, AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WILL LEAD TO HATEFUL AND DESCRIBE DARKNESS AND SUFFERING WITHIN THE WORLD. SO WHAT DID GOT SAY, HE SAID, HEY LUCIFER THAT'S NOT THE KINGDOM I PREPARED UP HERE. I'M AFRAID YOU HAVE TO GO TO YOUR OWN KINGDOM. AND QUEEN LATIFAHLY HELL SERVES BOTH PURPOSES. IT SERVES THE SAME PURPOSE FOR LUCIFER AS IT DOES FOR US. SO IT'S ALL ABOUT FREE CHOICE. >> IT'S ALL ABOUT WHAT WE REALLY WANT. AND SO THAT'S WHY LUCIFER IS CONSIGNED TO. NOW LET'S GET TO YOUR THIRD QUESTION: WHY WOULD GOD HAVE ALLOWED LUCIFER TO COME DOWN HERE AND TEMPT US, WHICH SEEMS BELATED UNFAIR? BECAUSE GOD ALSO GIVES US HIS GRACE. SO OF COURSE WE'RE FREE. AND WE'RE FREE NOT ONLY TO DEAL WITH THE TEMPTATIONS THAT OUT THERE IN THE NATURAL WORLD, THE TEMPTATIONS THAT WE KNOW THROUGH THE EIGHT DEADLY SINS BUT WILL THE WE ARE FREE TO DEAL WITH THOSE TEMPTATIONS BEING, AS IT WERE EXAC EXACERBATED BY THE EVE WHO DOES A JOB. BUT WE ARE GIVEN GRACE. WE HAVE THE GRACE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. WE HAVE THE TEACHING OF JESUS CHRIST. WE HAVE THE SACRAMENT OF JESUS CHRIST WHEN WE FAIL. WE HAVE THE HOLY EUCHARIST WHICH SUSTAINS US AND TRANSFORMS US AND HEALS US AND BRINGS US EVER CLOSER TO THE LORD. WE HAVE EVERYTHING WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THE EVIL ONE. OH, YES, GOD ALLOWS HIM JUST AS, YOU KNOW, TO KIND OF WANDER AROUND THE WORLD PROPAGATING HIS EVIL. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, GOD COUNTERACTS HIM WITH EVERY SINGLE -- GOD PERMITS LUCIFER TO DO EVERYTHING SHE SUPPOSED TO DO. BUT AT THE VERY SAME TIME GOD GIVES US EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED TO COUNTERACT LUCIFER. DOES THAT MEAN I WILL SUCCEED ALL THE TIME? NO. I HAVE DONE MY CATACLYSMIC FAILURES AND WHEN I DO THOSE THINGS I HAVE GONE TO THE COMMENT OF RECONCILIATION AND I HAVE TRYING TO GET BACK ON THE ROAD AGAIN AND I TRIED TO STAY WITHIN THE SACRAMENTS. HAVE YOU BEEN AN ARROGANT NO GOOD DIRTY RAT? YES, I HAVE. I'VE DONE IT ALL -- NOT ALL BUT I HAVE DONE SOME PRETTY BAD THINGS AND DOMINATING THINGS AND OTHER KINDS OF THINGS. SO MY POINT IS, YOU KNOW, GOD HAS GREATER WEIGHT OF THE EVIDENCE ME, THOUGH, HE'S GIVEN ME THAT RECONCILIATION AND ABSOLUTION AND THE HOLY EUCHARIST WHICH KEEPS ME ON THE ROPE, HE HAS GIVEN ME THE EXAMPLE OF THE SAINTS AND GIVEN ME THE WORDS OF JESUS CHRIST WHICH ARE INTERPRETED BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. AND I NEED THEM TO BE INTERPRETED BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BECAUSE I AM SO SUBJECT TO THE SPITZER AARON RATIONALIZATION. GIVE ME FIVE MINUTES AND I CAN TURN INTO INTO A RATIONALIZATION ABOUT WHY I OUGHT TO DO IT IF IT'S CONVENIENT FOR ME. I NEED THE CHURCH HAD TO KEEP ME FROM ACTUALLY USING MY INTELLIGENCE AGAINST MYSELF AND AGAINST MY SOUL. SO I MEAN BASICALLY, WE NEED IT ALL. BUT IF WE AT A TIME IT OUTLINE AND IT'S GIVEN TO US BY JESUS AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS GIVEN TO US BY JESUS PAR EXCELLENT. I WOULD JUST SAY TAKE IT ALL. AND YOU CAN RESIST LUCIFER. HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY DAUNTING OVERSIGHT OVER YOU. AND, BY THE WAY, YOU CAN JUST USE THE NAME OF JESUS AND TELL HIM TO SCAT. IN THE NAME OF JESUS, BE GONE! IF YOU DON'T THINK YOU HAVE A COMPANION WITH THE ANGEL, MICHAEL, THE ARCHANGEL, TRY THAT PRAYER. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THE LONG PRAYER. YOU CAN DO THE SHORT PRAYER. ST. MICHAEL PROTECT ME. AND JUST TRY IT SOMETIME. WHAT DO YOU FEEL LIKE THEY'RE GETTING TEMPTED AND YOU GO THIS IS NOT JUST ME, THIS IS NOT JUST MY SUBCONSCIOUS MIND. I'M, LIKE, GOING INTO THE PIT HERE. THIS IS -- I SEE THE TALLITHERING AWAY. WHEN YOU START SEEING THIS HAPPEN, THEN YOU TRY THAT PLAYER. ST. MICHAEL PROTECT ME. AND, BY THE WAY, BLESSED VIRGIN MARY PROTECT ME AS WELL AS LORD JESUS HELP ME AND IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS BE GONE. YOU TRY THOSE PRAYERS. THEY WORK. AND THERE'S ONE THING THE DEVIL HATES MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE AND THAT'S WHEN YOU GO TO CHURCH AND RECEIVE THE HOLY EUCHARIST. I'M TELLING YOU, YOU JUST -- YOU'RE JUST KILLING HIM IF YOU RECEIVE THE HOLY EUCHARIST. YOU'RE JUST KILLING HIM. SO MY THOUGHT IS HE IS POWERLESS OVER YOU AND WHEN YOU HAVE FAITH AND STAY IN THE CHURCH. >> SO IF YOU WANT TO GIVE HIM A HARD TIME, GO TO MASS. >> TRUE, TRUE ENOUGH. >> GO TO MASS. >> AND GO TO DAILY MASS. THAT WILL REALLY DO IT. >> HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION: A PERSON WHISTLES TO US THAT SAYS, DEAR FATHER SPITZER. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF PREDESTINATION. DOES GOD GIVE MOREGRATIONS TO SOME INSTEAD OF OTHERS TO BE SAVED? MARY IS ROSES IS A SIGN OF PREDESTINATION. DOES IT MEAN GOD KNOWS WHO WILL BE SAVED? DOES GOD LOVE US EQUALLY OR NOT? OR ONLY SOME DESTINED TO BE SAVE? THANK YOU, CHRISTINE. OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT THE CHURCH HAS DEMOCRACY WITH AND DEKNOCK NATIONS HAVE DEALT. >> EVERY ONE OF THOSE QUESTIONS ARE VERY, VERY GOOD QUESTIONS BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION YOU'RE ASKING INTEREST AND THE MOST IMPORTANT ANSWER IS DOES GOD TREAT EVERYBODY EQUALLY? YES, HE DID. YOU MIGHT SAY WAIT A MINUTE WHAT ABOUT ONE PERSON GROWING UP CHRISTIAN AND THE OTHER DIDN'T, ONE CATHOLIC AND THE OTHER DIDN'T. BUT CHRIST JUDGES EVERYONE EQUALLY. SO THE POINT IS, WE CAN ALL MOVE TO THE KINGDOM OF GOD, IF WE'RE TRYING TO FOLLOW THE DICTATES OF THE LORD ACCORDING TO OUR CONSCIENCE. AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS JUST SAILING EARLIER IN THE PROGRAM, THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO DO IT AND GET PURIFICATION GOING THROUGH THE SACRAMENT AND THROUGH THE TEACHING OF JESUS INTERPRETED BY THE CHURCH. SO THAT'S VERY, VERY GOOD INDEED. NOW, THE POINT I'M I'M TRYING TO GET TO IS GOD IS NOT PRE-DESTINING SOME PEOPLE TO GO TO HEAVEN AND SOME TO HELL. GOD DOES KNOW WHO IS GOING TO GO TO HEAVEN AND HELL. BUT HE KNOWS WHO IS GOING BY THEIR OWN CHOICE. SO HE KNOWS WHAT HAPPEN IN THE WORLD OF FUTURE CONTINGENTS WHICH BRINGS UP THE PROBLEM OF JOHN CALVIN. HOW IN THE SINCE I'M STILL LIVING IN THE PRESENT MOMENT AND I HAVEN'T YET MADE MY FUTURE CHOICE, NOW CAN GOD KNOW A FEW CONTINGENT LIKE MY CHOICE TO KNOW IF I'M GOING TO HEAVEN OR TO HELL? AND THE ANSWER TO THAT, OF COURSE, IS GOD IS TIMELESS. AND WHAT DID I PERCEIVE TO BE A SEQUENCED VERSION OF THINGS, HE DOES NOT. AND YOU CAN NOT SAY THAT MY PERCEPTION OF THE UNFOLDING OF REALITY IS THE SAME AS A TIMELESS BEING PERCEPTION OF THE UNFOLDING OF REALITY BECAUSE THEN IF I SAY THAT, I ATTRIBUTE TEMPORAL TEE TO GOD WHICH I CAN'T DO BECAUSE HE IS TIMELESS AND THE POINT I'M TRYING TO GET IS IT'S ALMOST LIKE ST. AUGUSTINE'S ANSWER FOR THE QUESTION, WHAT WAS GOD DOING BEFORE HE CREATED TIME, YOU KNOW, THINKING OF ALL OF THIS. I'M JUST KIDDING. THE POINT I'M TRYING TO GET TO IS WE DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION OF HOW CAN GOD KNOW ABOUT A FUTURE CONTINGENT IN THE CONTEMPORARY NOWNESS. WE ARE NOT THE ETERNAL NOW. WE DO NOT SEE HOW THE ETERNAL NOW SEES OUR FUTURE RELATIVE TO OUR PRESENTED OR HOW HE EXPERIENCES IT. BECAUSE IF YOU TRY TO SAY HE DOES IT LIKE WE DO, YOU JUST ATTRIBUTED TIME TO GOD, AND THAT YOU CANNOT DO. ALL WE CAN SAY DO IS SAY, LORD, WHEN I GO TOTE HEAVEN CAN YOU GIVE ME A GLAMS OF HOW YOU'RE ABLE TO DO THAT AND HOW YOU CAN HAVE A TEMPORALIZED CREATURE SO THAT FUTURE BECOMES THE SAME AS THE PROPONENT IN WHAT ST. AUGUSTINE CALLED THE TIMELESS OR ETERNAL NOW. AND I'D LIKE TO KNOW THAT. AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THAT. IS IT INHERIT FOR GOD TO DO THAT? NO I DON'T BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE TIMELINESS. BUT GOD DOES TREAT EVERYONE EQUALLY. GOD'S JUDGMENT IS EQUALLY COMPASSIONATE FOR EACH AND EVERY PERSON. GOD DOESN'T PRE-DESTIN ANYBODY TO HELL IN TERMS OF PREDETERMINENANT. GOD KNOWS THROUGH HIS KNOWLEDGE OF OUR FUTURE CONTINGENTS IN HIS TIMELESSNESS WHETHER OR NOT I IN MY FREEDOM WILL CHOOSE HEAVEN OR HELL AND HE WILL ALLOW ME TO CHOOSE EITHER ONE BUT HE WILL DO EVERYTHING HE COULD TO PREVENT ME FROM CHOOSING HELL AND TO ENCOURAGE ME TO CHOOSE HEAVEN. AND BELIEVE ME GOD CAN BE PERSUASIVE. HE CAN WAKE YOU UP AT 3:00 IN THE MORNING. HE CAN SHAKE YOU UP AT 3:00 IN THE MORNING. HE CAN GIVE YOU SENSE OF REAL FORE BODYING AND YOU CAN GET VISIONS OF THE LORD IN HIS SADNESS OR THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY TRY CRYING FOR YOU. YOU CAN GET A SENSE OF DESCENDING INTO THE DEPTH OF HELL AT 3:00 IN THE MORNING AND WAKE UP AND GO WHAT AM I GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS? MY THOUGHT IS, GO TO CHURCH. GET RECONCILED. GO TO THE SACRAMENT OF RECONCILIATION. TURN YOUR LIFE AROUND. JESUS CHRIST IS THE ANSWER, AS INTERPRETED THROUGH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. GET TO THE SACRAMENTS AND ESPECIALLY THE HOLY EUCHARIST. DON'T MESS AROUND. BECAUSE WHEN GOD STARTS GIVING YOU THE VOICE IS THE BACK OF THE HEAD OR TURNING TO 3:00 IN THE MORNING AND STARTING TO GIVE YOU FRANZ KAFKA DEEMS DREAMS, IS THIS IS STARTING TO HAPPEN, YOU HAD BETTER NOT ONLY WAKE UP PHYSICALLY BUT YOU HAD BETTER WAKE UP TO THE SPIRITUAL REALITY THAT GOD IS TRYING TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO AND HE IS GIVING YOU UP A OF THE GIFTS AND HE WANTS TO BRING YOU INTO THE CHURCH. DON'T BE STUBBORN. IF YOU'RE STUBBORN YOU'RE LOSING YOUR FREE CHOICE IS GIVING IT TO THE DEVIL HIMSELF. >> AND YOU TALKED ABOUT FRANZ KAFKA. WELL WITH THAT BEING SAID LET'S MOVE ON TO A NEW TOPIC IN THE CLOSE CLOSING MINUTES SO WE CAN FINISH UP HEAVEN AND NEXT TIME BE DEALING WITH HILL. YOU TALK ABOUT HAVING TO DEAL WITH NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES AS YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE. AND YOU SAY IF THIS EXPERIENCE OF THE LIGHT, BEING IN THE LIGHT IS DESCRIBED AS LOVING AND ACCEPTAL. SOME PEOPLE ASSOCIATE IT WITH GOD AND JESUS OR AN ANGEL. BUT IF IT'S REALLY GOD WHY DOESN'T EVERYBODY SEE IT THAT WAY IF THAT'S WHAT IT IS? ARE. >> KNOWS WHO DO SEE BRIGHT WHITE LIGHT DO IT SEE IT THAT WAY AS GOOD OR JESUS OR ANGEL. JUST REMEMBER 20 PERCENT OF PEOPLE WHO UNDERGO CLINICAL DEATH DO NOT HAVE A NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE GOOD OR BAD. SO WE KNOW THAT -- >> HOW WE KNOW THAT JUST DON'T REMEMBER IT. >> WELL THEY MIGHT NOT REMEMBER IT. WE JUSTIFY DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON THERE. I ALWAYS THOUGHT THEY HAD NOT BEEN JUDGED YET AND THERE WAS SOMETHING ELSE FOR THEM TO DO IN THIS LIFE. AND SOME SAY IT'S PRIOR -- OR AS YOU SAID, DOUG, SOME PEOPLE JUST DON'T REMEMBER IT. BUT IN A VERY RECENT PROTRACTED STUDY, PEER-REVIEWED MEDICAL STUDY BY DR. SAMUEL PARNIA AT THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH HAMPTON, IN THAT STUDY, HE FOUND ONLY THAT ABOUT -- I THINK IT WAS 10 OR 11 PERCENT OF PEOPLE HAD THE VERY PLEASANT EXPERIENCE, AND HE FOUND A HIGHER PERCENTAGE HAD LESS EXPERIENCES. IN THE LANCET, A PEER-REVIEWED ARTICLE, IT FOUND 20 PERCENT OF PEOPLE HAD NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES AND I BELIEVE ONLY 1 OR 2 PERCENT WERE DARK OR UNPLEASANT EXPERIENCES. SORT ARE SOME VARIANCE OF THE NUMBER -- >> WHAT DO YOU THINK WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS? MORE PEOPLE ARE LEADING LIVES THEY -- I JUST DON'T KNOW. THE LANCET STUDY WAS EARLIER THAN THE VON LOMEL ONE, WHICH WAS 2014. AND I THINK IT WAS 2014 FOR VON LOMEL AND -- THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT IS, THERE ARE DARK EXPERIENCES NOT JUST THE LIGHT. BUT IF A PERSON HAS AN EXPERIENCE OF THE LIGHT, THEY ALL THINK OF IT THE SAME WAY, GOD, JESUS, AN ANGEL, SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE, VERY ACCEPTING AND LOVING. THEN YOU'VE GOT A HUGE PERCENTAGE, 80 OR 90 PERCENT JUST DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AT ALL IN WHICH TO KNOW WHAT THE EXPERIENCE WAS. THEY JUST DIDN'T FEEL ANYTHING. >> SO IS IT POSSIBLE WHAT YOU ALLUDED TO -- I GUESS ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE BUT IN A SENSE MAYBE THE LIGHT ARE THOSE PEOPLE WHO IN A SENSE MIGHT BE GOING TO HEAVEN, THE PEOPLE IN THE DARK MAY BE PEOPLE IF THEY CONTINUED WOULD END UP IN THE BAD PLACE AND THE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE MAYBE ARE THE PEOPLE GOING TO PURGATORY? >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING. AND I'M SAYING THEY DIDN'T OF COURSE COMPLETE THE JOURNEY AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE BACK WITH US BECAUSE IF THEY DID START AND COMPLETE THE JOURNEY WE WOULDN'T SEE THEM AGAIN. THEY WOULD NOT BE RESUSCITATABLE BUT FOR ALL WEBSITE AND PURPOSES I THINK THE ONES SEEING THE LIGHT WERE DESTINED FOR HEAVEN. I DO. I THINK THE ONES -- THE DARK AND DEMONIC EXPERIENCES I THINK THEY WERE DESTINED FOR HELL, AND THINK -- BUT THEY DIDN'T THREAT THE JOURNEY AND THE ONCE THAT EXPERIENCED SOMETHING ELSE COULD BE PURGATORY OR NONJUDGMENT YET, SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE IS GOING ON. SO DO NOT THINK FOR A SECOND BECAUSE OF A PREPONDERANCE OF NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES ARE PLEASANT, DO NOT THINK FOR A MOMENT, PUNCH OF TICKET YOU'RE HOME FREE. YOU'RE NOT. WE JUST DON'T HAVE DETERMINATIVE INFORMATION ON ANY OF THAT 08 PERCENT THAT DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO EXPERIENCE NOTHING, OR, FOR EXAMPLE, WHATEVER IT IS, THE 2 PERCENT OR 5 PERCENT THAT HAVE DEFINITIVELY UNPLEASANT EXPERIENCES. >> YOU SAY WE NOW ENCOUNTER THE SEEMING CONTRADICTION OF JESUS' PRESENTATION OF HIS UNCONDITIONALLY LOVING FATHER AND THE ETERNAL BANQUET OF LOVE AND THE POSSIBILITIES OF REALITY OF HELL. HOW COULD SUCH A GOD ALLOW ANYONE TO GO TO DOMAIN OF DARKNESS AWAY FROM THE LIGHT. >> THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT I THINK THE PREVIOUS VIEWER WAS JUST ASKING; NAMELY, YOU KNOW, GOD MADE US FREE. SO OF COURSE, IS GOD COMPLETELY UNCONDITIONALLY, IF I MIGHT USE THE WORD SADDENED BY US CHOOSING HELL? OF COURSE HE IS. GOD DOESN'T WANT ANY OF US TO CHOOSE HELL. THAT'S WHY HE'S WORKING OVER TIME FOR GET US NOT TO CHOOSE HELL. AND THE GOD IS SAYING GOD RESENTS YOU, GOD DOES NOT LIKE YOU, GOD A IN DIFFERENT TO YOUR SALVATION. THIS IS ALL TRIPE FROM THE EVIL ONE AND HE IS THE ONE TRYING TO PROPOSE TO YOU AND TO CONVINCE YOU THAT GOD DOESN'T CARE BUT GOD DOES IN FACT CARE. GOD IS JUST COMPLETELY SADDENED BY THE FACT THAT ANYONE WOULD CHOOSE HELL OR A DOMAIN WITHOUT HIM, WITHOUT LOVE, WITHOUT THE BLESSED. NOW THE APPOINT OF COURSE THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT IS THAT WE CHOOSE IT AND THAT'S WHAT WE REALLY WANTED. THE CATECHISM CALLS IT, IT'S AGAIN ACTIVE SELF DETERMINATION TO BE AWAY FROM THE BLESSED, TO BE AWAY FROM GOD, TO BE AWAY FROM LOVE. THAT'S THE WAY CATECHISM DEFINES IT. SO WE'RE THE ONES THAT DO IT. GOD IS SADDENED BY IT. HE'S DOING EVERYTHING TO PREVENT US FROM DOING IT. HE'S TRYING TO CONVINCE US. DON'T BELIEVE THE CULTURE. DON'T BELIEVE THE EVIL ONE. DON'T BELIEVE IT. IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S RIGHT. BUT TRUST IN MY SON, THAT'S THE PATH TO GO. THAT'S THE ROAD RIGHTEOUSNESS. YOU GOT TO DO IT. AND FOR MY POINT OF VIEW, YOU KNOW, THE BEST WAY IS TO GET BACK TO CHURCH, TO GO TO THE SACRAMENT OF RECONCILIATION IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN FOR A WHILE AND THEN DEFINITELY TOO TRY TO GO TO A MASS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO FOLLOW AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO FOLLOW THE TEACHING OF JESUS AS INTERPRETED BY THE CHURCH. THEN YOU'RE ON THE ROAD. THEN ABSOLUTION IS DEFINITIVE IN CONFESSION. THEN THE EUCHARIST IS HEALING AND DRAWING YOU TO GOD HIMSELF WHICH IS WHAT GOD WANTS FOR YOU. GOD IS NOT UP IN HEAVEN GOING, HMM, SPITZER, HEAVEN, HELL, HEAVEN, HELL -- OH, HELL. HE IS LITERALLY IN THERE GOING, SPITZER, WE'RE GOING TO HEAVEN AND I'M GETTING YOU THERE, IF YOU FREELY COOPERATE WITH ME. AND BELIEVE ME LORD, I'M TRYING. >> SPEAKING OF HELL THAT'S WHAT OUR TOPIC IS GOING TO BE THE NEXT TIME WE ACTUALLY GET TOGETHER. >> OKAY. >> VERY GOOD. >> WHICH IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS INTERESTED IN. >> I SHOULDN'T SAY VERY GOOD. I SHOULD SAY VERY BAD. BUT WE WILL BE GOING TO DISCUSS IT. >> FATHER SPITZER EXPLAINS IT ALL. JOIN US NEXT TIME. GIVES YOUR BLESSING ON THE WAY OUT OF THE DOOR, FATHER. >> YOU BET. BOW YOUR HEADS AND PRAY FOR GOD'S BLESSING. AND AGAIN MAY THE LORD OF ALL CONCILIATION COME DOWN UPON YOU WITH HIS HOLY SPIRIT TO TELL YOU OF THE TRUTH OF HIS SON, TO MAKE THE MORE AND MORE EXPLICIT IN YOUR OWN CONSCIOUSNESS SO THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO FOLLOW HIM, AND HAVE THE FREEDOM TO FOLLOW HIM INTO THE FULLNESS OF HIS LIFE AND LOVE AND GOODNESS, AWAY FROM -- TO BECOME PART OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD, IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND THE SON ASK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FATHER SPITZER. WE SEE YOU NEXT TIME. GOD BLESS YOU. TAKE IT EASY. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> FOR ALL OF OUR ANSWER DON'T FORGET ABOUT FATHER SPITZER RESOURCES THROUGH OUR CATALOG ON YOUR SCREEN. WONDERFUL BOOKS AND LOTS OF DVD's AS WELL AVAILABLE. DON'T FORGET THAT COMING UP IN SEPTEMBER, WE HAVE THE EWTN FAMILY CELEBRATION COMING UP ON SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 21, DENVER COLORADO, ONE DAY ONLY. GREAT LINE UP. GO TO OUR WEBSITE, EWTN.COM AND FIND THE WEBSITE ON THE CONFERENCE. >> IT'S GOING TO BE WONDERFUL, OUT IN DENVER, SEPTEMBER 21. JOIN US AGAIN NEXT WEEK'S EPISODE AS WE DISCUSS HELL. ALSO THIS SUNDAY BE SURE TO LOOK FOR OUR NEXT EPISODE, OF BOOK MARK. I WILL BE TALKING WITH FATHER WILLIAM SLATTERY ABOUT HOW CATHOLIC PRIESTS HELPED REBUILD WESTERN CIVILIZATION. FATHER SPITZER WOULD ENDORSE THAT TOO. I'M DOUG KECK. SEE YOU NEXT TIME AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. WE'LL BE LOOKING FOR YOU. THANKS. ♪
