♪ >> Doug: HELLO AND WELCOME TO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE. I'M DOUG KECK, YOUR HOST, COMING TO YOU FROM OUR STUDIOS, EWTN STUDIOS IN THE HEART OF IRONDALE, ALABAMA, MOTHER ANGELICA WAY. AND OF COURSE, THIS IS A SHOW WITH THE UNIVERSAL APPEAL AND IT'S GETTING POPULAR EACH WEEK. THANK YOU FOR ALL OF THE WONDERFUL QUESTIONS YOU SEND US EVERY WEEK. TODAY'S TOPIC, CHAPTER TWO, THE UNITY OF SUFFERING AND LOVE, SELF SACRIFICE. THIS IS PART TWO AND WE'VE ALREADY TALKED INSIDE THE BOOK, THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS. AND TRANSFORMING THROUGH FAITH IS WHAT WE'RE WORKING THROUGH. SO, OF COURSE, YOU MAY ALSO MAY NOT BE AWARE BUT YOU CAN EMAIL YOUR QUESTIONS TO ewtn.com SPITZER spitzersuniverse@ewtn.com AND YOU CAN ALSO CATCH UP WITH US ON FACEBOOK AND ON TWITTER. AND THE ADDRESSES ARE LISTED ON YOUR SCREEN. ALL OF THE THINGS RELATING TO FATHER SPITZER AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON, YOU CAN GO TO HIS WEB SITE, magiscenter.com. SPEAKING OF IMPORTANT NEW THINGS, WE HAVE MOTHER ANGELICA'S LATEST EDITION OUT OF, MOTHER ANGELICA PRAYER AND LIVING FOR THE KINGDOM, ON PRAYER AND LIVING FOR THE KINGDOM. I JUST DID AN INTERVIEW WITH FATHER JOSEPH AND WE BOTH AGREED THIS IS THE BEST BOOK THAT HAS COME OUT. AND CHECK IT OUT AT OUR EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOG. ewtnRC.com. NOW, TONIGHT, WE HAVE CALLED AND CHOSEN, FATHER VINCENT CAPADANNO, AUGUST 30, AND EWTN LIVE COMING UP WITH FATHER MITCH AND PRODUCER AND OTHER REPRESENTATIVES OF THIS NEW EXCITING COPRODUCTION WE'VE DONE, CALLED AND CHOSEN, JUST A GREAT STORY ABOUT A GREAT MAN. AND YOU CAN CHECK OUT ewtn.com FOR OTHER TIMES THAT YOU CAN SEE WHEN WE'LL BE REAIRING THIS GREAT EVENT. DON'T FORGET, FAMILY CELEBRATION COMING UP SEPTEMBER 9, 10, AMAZINGLY TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING JUST A WEEK AND A HALF AWAY! I'LL BE THERE, SEPTEMBER 9 AND 10 IN WORCESTER MASSACHUSETTS CHECK OUT THE WEB SITE AT ewtn.com FOR ALL OF THE INFORMATION CONCERNING THAT. LET'S GET OURSELVES OUT TO FATHER SPITZER, TO THE WEST COAST STUDIOS IN ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA. BEAUTIFUL AREA CAMPUS OF THE CHRIST CATHEDRAL AND BISHOP VAN, OUR GOOD FRIEND THAT PROVIDED THE SPACE. AND FATHER SPITZER IT'S SO GOOD TO SEE YOU. WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH ISSUES IN THE COUNTRY THAT OBVIOUSLY ARE A LITTLE SOMBER FOR ALL OF US. SO, I THOUGHT MAYBE WE'D START OFF WITH A PRAYER FOR ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING THROUGH AND EVEN LOST THEIR LIVES IN THE HURRICANE HARVEY EXPERIENCE THAT HAS CRASHED INTO TEXAS AND CONTINUING TO DROP HEAVY AMOUNTS OF RAIN ON THE MORE EASTERN PARTS OF TEXAS AS WELL AS INTO LOUISIANA. >> Father: ABSOLUTELY. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT AMEN. HEAVENLY FATHER, WE ASK TO YOU SEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT DOWN UPON ALL THOSE PEOPLE IN HOUSTON AND IN THE SURROUNDING AREA, THE THOUSANDS OF VICTIMS THAT HAVE BEEN DISPLACED FROM THEIR HOMES AND LOST FAMILY MEMBERS, LOST EVERYTHING THAT THEY HAVE, WE ASK YOU TO SEND THEM YOUR SPIRIT OF COMFORT, YOUR SPIRIT OF GOOD RESOLUTE FAITH SO THAT THEY MAY KNOW HOW BEST TO DEAL WITH THESE SUFFERINGS, THESE DEPRIVATIONS AT THIS TIME. WE ASK YOU, TOO, TO SEND YOUR SPIRIT OF GOOD INTERCONNECTION, THAT THEY MAY BE ABLE TO WORK WITH ONE ANOTHER, TO HELP ONE ANOTHER, AND TO SPREAD THE FAITH AND CHARITY TO ONE ANOTHER THROUGH THE PAIN AND THE DEPRIVATION OF WHAT THEY ARE DEALING WITH. SEND, TOO, LORD, YOUR SPIRIT OF GENEROSITY SO THAT THOSE AMONG OUR AUDIENCE AND THOSE THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES MAY REALLY CONTRIBUTE TO HELP PEOPLE GET BACK ON THEIR FEET. WE ASK FOR ALL OF THESE THINGS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. AMEN. AND MARY, MOTHER OF COMFORT, PRAY FOR US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> Doug: AND I KNOW THAT THE KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS ARE RAISING MONEY FOR THOSE EFFORTS IN HOUSTON, AND THE RECOVERY EFFORTS, USCCB HAS ANNOUNCED SOMETHING AS WELL AND YOU CAN FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION ON THOSE WEB SITES. DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE BOOK, THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS WHICH IS WHAT WE HAVE BASED THESE SERIES OF PROGRAMS ON, PART OF A QUAD SET AS YOU CAN SEE THE FOUR BOOKS, YOU CAN PICK IT UP THROUGH THE RELIGIOUS CATALOG AND HE'S QUITE A PROLIFIC WRITER. AS WE GET INTO PART TWO OF THIS PARTICULAR CHAPTER, WE HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS, LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU. BUT ALSO, THE UNITY OF SUFFERING AND SELF SACRIFICE. HERE WE ARE IN A SITUATION, AND PEOPLE SAY, WHY DID THIS HURRICANE, A, HAVE TO HIT WHERE I LIVED? WHY IS IT HAPPENING TO ME? WHY IS IT EVEN MAYBE A SITUATION WHERE ON MY BLOCK, IT WAS REALLY BAD. AND ON ANOTHER BLOCK, IT WAS NOT SO BAD. WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRIED TO HELP PEOPLE, LIKE THAT STORY OF THAT ONE PARTICULAR HOUSTON, I BELIEVE HE WAS A SERGEANT, WHO WENT OUT ON HIS OWN TO HELP PEOPLE AND HE LOST HIS LIFE. HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO UNDERSTAND THOSE THINGS IN THE SENSE OF BAD THINGS HAPPENING TO SEEMINGLY GOOD PEOPLE. >> Father: YEAH. I WOULD SAY, I BEGIN WITH JUST THREE POINTS THAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED BEFORE. WE DON'T WANT TO LOSE SIGHT OF THESE. NUMBER ONE, VIEW EVERYTHING IN TERMS OF THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE RESURRECTION, THAT WE'RE CALLED TO THE RESURRECTION AND WE KNOW THAT IF WE DEAL, IN FAITH, WITH OUR SUFFERING, THAT SUFFERING DEALT WITH, IN FAITH, WILL LEAD US TO OUR RESURRECTION AND HELP OTHERS THAT WE ARE CONNECTED WITH, TO THEIR RESURRECTION. EVEN HELP US TO HELP THEM TO THEIR RESURRECTION. SO, THE FIRST THING IS, WE'RE NOT LIVING FOR THIS LIFE ALONE. AND EVERY TIME WE EXPERIENCE SUFFERING, THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO USE THAT SUFFERING IN OUR FAITH TO TRANSFORM OURSELVES, TO TRANSFORM OUR LIVES, TO PURIFY OUR FAITH IN LOVE, OUR DEPENDENCE ON GOD AND TO HELP OTHERS AS WELL, RIGHT, WHICH KIND OF DEFINES OUR OWN IDENTITY TO HELP OTHERS MOVE THROUGH THEIR SUFFERING. THAT'S THE FIRST THING. AND THE SECOND THING, WE NEVER WANT TO FORGET IS THAT GOD DOES WORK THROUGH NATURAL CAUSES. AND AS WE'VE SAID MANY TIMES, THROUGHOUT THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS, GOD IS NOT GOING TO PERFORM A MIRACLE EVERY FIVE MINUTES. HE'S NOT GOING TO STOP A HURRICANE FROM COMING IN. HURRICANES ARE THERE. THEY ARE GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THE LAWS OF PHYSICS AND THE LAWS OF NATURES, ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE AND SO FORTH. SO, ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE IN PLACE. AND THOSE NATURAL LAWS ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO WIND UP SENDING A HURRICANE SOMEWHERE. AND WHEN IT LANDS SOMEWHERE, YOU MIGHT SAY, WELL, WHY THIS PLACE. THE BASIC ANSWER IS, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS DETERMINED THAT THEY WERE GOING TO HAPPEN. IT'S NOT LIKE GOD IS UP THERE DETERMINING WHERE THE HURRICANE IS GOING TO GO. WE DO HAVE TO RESPECT THOSE LAWS OF NATURE. AND SO, OF COURSE, THAT'S A HUGE THING THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET THROUGH THE LIFE WITHOUT SUFFERING. WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET THROUGH THIS LIFE EVEN WITHOUT SOME PRETTY REMARKABLE SUFFERING. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME CHALLENGES. AND ANYBODY WHO SAYS THAT THEY HAVE HAD NO CHALLENGES IN THEIR LIVES, I'M NOT SO SURE THEY ARE TELLING THE WHOLE TRUTH pH. SO, THE KEY THING, YEAH, WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH CHALLENGES AND THAT'S THE WAY GOD WANTS IT. BECAUSE THOSE CHALLENGES DEALT WITH IN FAITH TOWARD OUR RESURRECTION, ARE ACTUALLY GOOD FOR US. I'VE GIVEN THE EXAMPLE BEFORE. EVERY PARENT HAS TO DEAL WITH THAT THOUGHT OF, I KNOW IF I SEND MY CHILD TO SCHOOL, SOME KID IS GOING TO HIT HIM AND HE'S GOING TO HIT BACK. OR SOMEBODY IS GOING TO INSULT HIM AND HE'S GOING TO HAVE A HURT FEELING. WELL, HE MIGHT DO POORLY ON THE SPELLING TEST. OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. I'M SENDING MY KID INTO THE POSSIBILITY OF ALL KINDS OF TROUBLE, PAIN, AND SUFFERING. WHY AM I DOING THIS? BECAUSE IT'S GOOD FOR THEM. IT'S LIEUTENANT ABSOLUTELY GOING TO DO SOMETHING FOR THEM TO DEVELOP THEM, TO GIVE THEM THOSE GREAT CARDINAL VIRTUES OF FORTITUDE, COURAGE, AND TEMPERANCE. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT GIVES THEM THE PURIFICATION IN FAITH AND IN LOVE. THEY ARE GOING TO EMERGE FROM SORT OF, LIKE, RECIPIENTS OF PLEASURE AND NURTURING AND TAKING CARE OF BY THEIR PARENTS. BUT THEY EMERGE AS NOBLE ENDEAVOR, PEOPLE WHO ARE CAPABLE OF SELF SACRIFICE, GREAT FAITH, AND DEMONSTRATING THAT FAITH TO OTHERS. AND PEOPLE WHO ARE CAPABLE OF DOING GREAT GOOD IN THE FACE OF SUFFERING. WHICH BRINGS ME TO MY THIRD POINT. AND THE THIRD POINT, EVERY INSTANCE OF SUFFERING IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL OF US TO HELP ONE ANOTHER, TO MOVE BEYOND THAT SUFFERING TOGETHER, TO PUT TOGETHER A REAL, AS I MIGHT SAY, FELLOWSHIP, A REAL BROTHERHOOD AND SISTERHOOD THAT IS GOING TO LITERALLY DEAL WITH THIS SUFFERING TOGETHER. AND THAT KIND OF COORDINATED COMPASSION, WHETHER IT BE THE GENEROSITY OF CONTRIBUTIONS. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN TEXT 90999, HARVEY, YOU KNOW, AND AUTOMATICALLY, YOUR $10 CONTRIBUTION GOES TO THERE, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. BUT IF WE'RE RIGHT THERE JOHNNY ON THE SPOT IN TEXAS, THERE'S THINGS THAT WE CAN DO. SOME OF US AREN'T GOING TO HAVE THE PHYSICAL CAPACITY, OR THE CAPABILITIES TO GO OUT THERE AND WADE THROUGH WATER TO RESCUE PEOPLE. BUT SOME MIGHT. AND THEN, THE AFTERMATH, THIS IS GOING TO BE, LIKE, A THREE-YEAR AFTERMATH. ALL THE DRYWALL, ALL THE FLOORING, EVERYTHING IN THESE HOUSES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE CHANGED. AND LOOK AT ALL OF THE WORKERS THAT ASSEMBLED FOR HURRICANE KATRINA AND IT'S GOING TO BE TWICE AS BIG IN HOUSTON. AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE LAST PEOPLE CONTRIBUTING SERVICES, DRYWALL, CONTRIBUTING TIME, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE PERSONS, THEY ARE GOING TO COME OUT AS A BETTER PERSON, MORE PREPARED FOR SALVATION AFTER THE FACT. THEY ARE GOING TO JOIN IN WITH THE COMMUNITY AND CALL OTHERS TO DO THE SAME. THIS WILL BE, IN ONE SENSE, A TERRIBLE TRAGEDY, CAN'T GET AROUND THAT. GOING TO BE TERRIBLY HARD ON A LOT OF PEOPLE. BUT ALSO, IT'S GOING TO BE A WAY TO BRING TOGETHER THE COMMUNITY OF ACTUALLY MOVING TOGETHER IN A CONCERTED FASHION TO HELP ONE ANOTHER. AND THEREIN LIES THAT MANIFESTATION OF BEING LOVED BY OTHERS AND ACCEPTING THOSE GIFTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO GIVE. AND IN SUCH A WONDERFUL WAY THAT GOD INTENDED. >> Doug: AND YOU EVEN SAID, THE IDEA OF PEOPLE FROM A DISTANCE, THE SECOND THOUGHT OF REALIZING, I'M NOT IN TOTAL CONTROL. THERE ARE THESE NATURAL OCCURRENCES AND THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN. MAYBE I SHOULD THINK MORE ABOUT ETERNITY. MAYBE I NEED TO THINK MORE ABOUT MY RELATIONSHIPS WITH MY FAMILY AND NOT TAKE FOR GRANTED SO MANY OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE IN MY LIFE, MY POSSESSIONS, MY HOME FOR REALIZING THAT THEY COULD BE TAKEN AWAY IN A MOMENT. >> Father: AS THE SAINTS SAY, [SPEAKING LATIN] IT'S THIS LIFE IS TRANSITORY, FLEETING, AND PASSING, THE GLORIES OF THIS WORLD. RIGHT? SO TRUE. AND ST. IGNATIUS SAYS, FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, THE FIRST PART OF HOLINESS, THE FIRST PART OF JOURNEYING ON THE ROAD TO HOLINESS IS TO DETACH ONE SELF FROM THE THINGS OF THIS WORLD. AND TO FIX ONE SELF ON WHAT REALLY COUNTS. AND OF COURSE, THE LORD HAS SAID THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN. SEEK FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND ALL ELSE WILL BE GIVEN YOU BESIDES. AND OF COURSE, HE PUTS IT OUT IN SO MANY PARABLES. WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO FOR A MAN TO STORE UP ALL THESE THINGS. AND GO, OH, NOW I HAVE ALL MY PROVISIONS, I'VE BUILT 10 NEW BARNS AND ALL SET TO RETIRE AND LIVE THE LIFE OF LEE. BOOM. THEN, OF COURSE, HE DIES THE NEXT DAY. AND AS THE LORD SAYS, YOU FOOL. YOU PUT ALL YOUR TIME AND ENERGY INTO THE WRONG THING. INSTEAD OF PUTTING IT INTO YOUR ETERNITY, YOU PUT IT INTO GATHERING MERE FLEETING THINGS OF THIS WORLD. SO, THE LORD IS PRETTY PRECISE AND ST. IGNATIUS, ALL THE SAINTS REALLY THAT TALK ABOUT THE NEED FOR DETACHMENT. AND BOY, I TELL YOU, THERE'S NOTHING LIKE A FEW GOOD BOUTS OF SUFFERING. AND I'M STANDING RIGHT THERE IN THE FRONT OF THE LINE OF PEOPLE WHO GET ATTACHED TO THINGS. AND A GOOD ROUND OF SUFFERING GETS ME NICE AND DETACHED, PARTICULARLY FROM THE HONORS AND GLORIES OF THIS WORLD. AND. >> Doug: ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. >> Father: YEAH. >> Doug: LET'S MOVE ON TO THE TOPIC FOR TODAY. OBVIOUSLY, THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS, THE BOOK THAT TRANSFORMING SUFFERING THROUGH FAITH THAT WE'RE WORKING THROUGH. A PERSON WROTE TO US A QUESTION. WHICH WE KIND OF TALKED WAY BACK WHEN. BUT SHE HAS A QUESTION. DEAR FR. SPITZER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR PROGRAM. SO HELPFUL, INSPIRING, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR SENSE OF HUMOR! I DO, TOO, I'LL SAY THAT! I HAVE YOUR BOOK, THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE SYMBOLISM OF THE DEER ON THE COVER. THANK YOU, WITH PRAYERS, MARIE AND WE WENT THROUGH THIS, THIS WAS NOT FATHER MITCH LINING UP HIS NEXT VICTIM, BUT IT HAS A GREATER MEANING THAN THAT, ISN'T THAT RIGHT? >> Father: YES, THAT'S RIGHT. IT WAS A SYMBOL THAT WAS USED BY A SAINT TO SIGNIFY THE RESURRECTION OF BEHIND THE CROSS. AND WHY THAT MOOSE WAS USED THERE AT THE CROSS, HIS HEAD, IT WAS A GERMAN SAINT AND FORGETTING WHO IT WAS NOW. BUT THAT SYMBOL WAS CHOSEN BY A FINE ARTIST AT IGNATIUS PRESS. AND I HATE TO SAY THIS, BUT SOMETIMES I DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF CONTROL OVER THE COVER ART THAT GOES ON THE BOOK. BUT I REALLY LIKED THIS. >> Doug: I THINK IT WAS SAINT HUBERT. >> RIGHT. HUBERTUS AND HE SYMBOLIZED THE RESURRECTION BEHIND THE CROSS. A MOOSE IN AN INTERESTING ANIMAL BECAUSE IN A WAY, IT COULD BE A VERY DANGEROUS ANIMAL. VERY UNPREDICTABLE ANIMAL, AS SUFFERING CLEARLY IS. BUT BETWEEN THOSE HORNS, THERE IS THE SYMBOLISM OF THE CROSS BUT IT'S THE CROSS THAT IS LEADING TO THE RESURRECTION. >> Doug: VERY INTERESTING. THE MIXED BLESSING OF SUFFERING. NOBODY WANTS TO GO THROUGH IT. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK BACK UPON YOUR LIFE, YOU THINK, OH, THE CHALLENGES AND SUFFERINGS I'VE BEEN THROUGH. IF I INTERPRET IT THROUGH MY FAITH, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN BAD FOR ME. AND SEE, THAT'S WHY ST. IGNATIUS WOULD ALWAYS SAY TO JESUITS, YOU GOT TO DO THE EXAMEN PRAYER EVERYDAY. NOT ONLY THINKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY. BUT HOW HAS GOD BEEN PRESENT IN MY DAY, CERTAINLY NOT A BAD IDEA. BUT IT'S THE IDEA OF LOOKING BACK UPON YOUR LIFE. ONCE, SOMETIMES WHEN YOU LOOK BACK ON YOUR LIFE AND YOU FOCUS ON THE SUFFERING, IF YOU ARE NOT SAYING, WOE IS ME. BUT YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE SUFFERINGS OBJECTIVELY AND YOU SEE ALL OF THESE COURSE PATHS AND ADJUSTMENTS YOU TOOK BECAUSE OF THE SUFFERING AND YOU FIND OUT ULTIMATELY THAT THEY WERE LEADING YOU MORE AND MORE TO THE RESURRECTION, TO GREATER AND GREATER DETACHMENT FROM YOUR EGO AND GREATER DETACHMENT FROM YOUR SENSE OF AUTONOMY AND GREATER DETACHMENT FROM THE THINGS OF THE WORLD. AND SUDDENLY, YOU FIND OUT, YOU HAVE AVOIDED THIS DANGEROUS PATH, THAT DANGEROUS PATH. I MEAN, AT THE TIME, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SAY, GOSH, I GOT TURNED DOWN FROM HARVARD LAW SCHOOL. DANG, LIFE WAS SO BAD. WAS IT? REALLY, WAS IT SO BAD? MAYBE GOING TO NOTRE DAME LAW SCHOOL WAS NOT A BAD DEAL AFTER ALL. MAYBE THAT'S, THAT WAS THE DECISION THAT CHANGED YOUR WHOLE LIFE FOR THE BETTER TOWARD YOUR FAITH AND YOUR SALVATION. BUT WE GOT TO HAVE THAT PERSPECTIVE OF SALVATION. WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT FAITH. BUT IF YOU LOOK BACK ON YOUR SUFFERINGS, SOME OF THEM WILL STILL SEEM COMPLETELY SENSELESS. BUT BOY YOU LOOK BACK AT ST. IGNATIUS -- THAT'S RIGHT. ARBITRARY. BUT ST. IGNATIUS SAYS YOU JUST KEEP LOOKING BACK WITH FAITH AND WISDOM. YOU WILL SEE THAT THE LORD WAS ABLE TO USE THIS. EVEN IF IT WAS CAUSED BY A COMPLETELY ARBITRARY EVENT LIKE A STORM, THE LORD WAS ABLE TO USE IT TO SET YOU ON THE COURSE TO SALVATION, SHOCK YOU OUT OF SUPERFICIALITY, RESCUE YOU FROM A DANGEROUS PATH. TO PURIFY YOUR LOVE AND YOUR FAITH. TO TURN YOU EVER MORE CLOSELY TO HIM. AND TO HIS KINGDOM. AND SO MANY TIMES, YOU KNOW, THE SAINTS, I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU. ST. IGNATIUS NEEDED A CANON BALL IN THE LEG. AND YOU SAY, WELL, GOSH, THAT WAS COMPLETELY ARBITRARY. WHAT ARE THE ODDS THAT A CANON BALL IS GOING TO HIT THIS GUY DIRECTLY IN THE LEG. WELL, THAT'S THE TRAJECTORY OF LEAD ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF PHYSICS. DID THE LORD USE IT FOR THE GOOD? YEAH. OH YEAH. HE STARTED THE BIGGEST RELIGIOUS ORDER IN THE WORLD. HOW MANY SAINTS? ONE RIGHT AFTER THE NEXT. AND PAUL NEEDED TO BE KNOCKED OFF HIS HORSE, QUITE FRANKLY. AUGUSTINE NEEDED TO GO INTO THE DARKNESS OF THE ABYSS IN ORDER FOR HIM TO FINALLY RECOGNIZE THAT SAINT AMBROSE HAD SOMETHING TO TELL HIM AND HIS MOTHER WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG. OF COURSE, THOUGH, IT REQUIRED SUFFERING. >> AND THE TROUBLE IS, WE USUALLY DON'T REALIZE OUR MOTHER WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG UNTIL MUCH LATER IN LIFE! >> Father: WELL, THEY REMIND US. >> Father: SO OFTEN WAS THE CASE, MOTHER, YOU DON'T KNOW ANY PHYSICS OR MATH AND YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW I CAN TELL YOU. BUT ACTUALLY SHE WAS A CHEMIST AND KNEW LOTS OF CHEMISTRY BEFORE SHE MARRIED MY DAD. AND THEN I FIND AROUND, OH, BOY, SHE HAD ALL THIS SPIRITUAL WISDOM. SORRY ABOUT THAT, MOM. AND THEN AS I RECOGNIZE IT IN HINDSIGHT, IT'S THE SAME THING, HOW MUCH SPIRITUAL WISDOM THE LORD HAS AND EVENTS OF -- >> Doug: WE WANT TO GET MORE OF THAT SPIRITUAL WISDOM. HERE'S ANOTHER QUESTION FOR YOU. >> Father: SURE. >> Doug: DEAR, FATHER SPITZER. LAST WEEK'S EPISODE, I REALLY NEEDED TO HEAR THIS. IT'S EASY TO LOSE HOPE WHEN WE ARE IN PAIN. IT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND PAIN. SUFFERING FOR LOVE IN FAITH IS A GREAT REMINDER. I FELT REALLY DOWN. I WILL CONTINUE TO OFFER MY SUFFERING TO GOD UNDERSTANDING I JUST HAVE TO TRUST HIM. THIS IS MARIA. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S EASY, BUT IT'S NOT, RIGHT? TO DO THAT. >> Father: IT'S NOT. AND THE CHOOSING TO TRUST GOD IS ONE. GREATEST ACTS OF HUMAN FREEDOM THAT THERE IS. AND YOU KNOW, JESUS, THAT WORD, ROLLS OFF HIS LIP TO THE FATHER OF THE DECEASED LITTLE GIRL, RIGHT, FEAR IS USELESS. WHAT IS NEEDED IS TRUST. WELL, THE FATHER COULD HAVE COME BACK AND SAID, THAT'S EASIER SAID THAN DONE. THAT'S TRUE. IT IS EASIER SAID THAN DONE. BUT JESUS MEANT, HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT OBVIOUSLY. AND OF COURSE, WE DO HAVE TO CHOOSE TRUST AND SOMETIMES IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO DO SO. SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, LIKE, WHEN YOU ARE BEING TEMPTED, WHETHER YOU ARE BEING TEMPTED, YOU KNOW, TOWARD SOMETHING SENSUAL, TEMPTED TO ANGER, PRIDE OR WHATEVER THE CASE IS, YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE YOUR HIGHER SELF. AND TEMPTATION ONLY HAS POWER OVER YOUR LOWER SELF. AND IF YOU LET YOUR LOWER SELF ENGAGE THE TEMPTATION, IT'S ALL OVER. IT HAS SO MUCH POWER OVER YOU. BUT IF YOU SAY, I CHOOSE MY HIGHER SELF. I CHOOSE THE SELF THAT IS VIRTUOUS. I CHOOSE THE SELF, AS ST. PAUL SAYS, IN ROMANS 7:15-30, SUCH A BEAUTIFUL PASSAGE WHERE HE'S TALKING ABOUT, WHY DO I DO WHAT I DON'T WANT TO DO. I DO THE EVIL THAT I WOULD NOT DO. AND I DO NOT DO THE GOOD THAT I WANT TO DO. WHAT A WRETCHED MAN I AM. WHO WILL RESCUE ME FROM THIS BODY OF DEATH? THANKS BE TO GOD FOR OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. AND YOU LOOK AT THE PASSAGE. WHAT'S HE TALKING ABOUT? HE'S TALKING THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE PASSAGE, STRUGGLING BETWEEN TWO SELVES, THE FLESH SELF WHICH I CALL THE LOWER SELF. AND THE SPIRIT SELF WHICH I CALL THE HIGHER SELF. THE VIRTUOUS SELF, THE SELF THAT WANTS TO FOLLOW CHRIST, THE MATURE SELF. THE SELF THAT IS ENNOBLED AND WANTS TO PURSUE, TRUTH, LOVE GOODNESS BEAUTY AND HOME. AND THE BEST WAY TO REFUTE TEMPTATION IS JUST TO SAY, I CHOOSE. I CHOOSE MY HIGHER SELF. I CHOOSE TO BE MY HIGHER SELF NOW AND ZINGO, THE TEMPTATION LOSES POWER. AND THE FIRST THING YOU WANT TO DO IN CHOOSING TRUST, GO BACK TO YOUR HIGHER SELF. DON'T LET THE LOWER SELF, THAT IS TO SAY, THE TEMPTABLE SELF, THE ONE JUDGING THINGS IN TERMS OF THE WORLD, THE SELF THAT'S GOING TO PICK UP THE IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATION AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. DON'T LET THAT SELF HAVE OR TAKE CHARGE. FIRST THINGS FIRST, CHOOSE YOUR HIGHER SELF. WHAT'S THAT HIGHER SELF? THAT'S THE SELF THAT WANTS TO FOLLOW GOD. THAT'S THE SELF THAT WANTS TRUTH, GOODNESS, AND LOVE, AND BEAUTY, AND HOME IN GOD. THAT'S THE SELF THAT WANTS TO BE VIRTUOUS AND TO IMITATE CHRIST. AND ALL OF US WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING AND STRUGGLING TO BECOME CHRISTIANS, ALL OF US HAVE THAT SELF. WE KNOW IT BUT WE GOT TO CHOOSE IT. AND WHEN YOU CHOOSE THAT SELF, THAT HIGHER SELF, AND THEN YOU SAY, I CHOOSE TO TRUST THE LORD THROUGH THAT HIGHER SELF, THAT SAINTLY SELF THAT EXISTS WITHIN YOU, I'M TELLING YOU, THE TEMPTATION TO JUST SINK INTO THE FEAR AND ANXIETY LOSES POWER. AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THE HIGHER SELF WITH ITS HIGHER MOTIVES, IT COMES ON BOARD. I KNOW I GOT CARRIED AWAY HERE. BUT THE MAIN THING, THOUGH, THE CHOOSING OF THE HIGHER SELF HELPS YOU TO CHOOSE THE TRUST IN THE MIDST OF ANXIETY AND FEAR BECAUSE OF OF COURSE, THE LOWER SELF IS WHAT'S ENGAGING THE FEAR. >> Doug: AND WE APPEAL TO YOUR HIGHER SELF TO DO THE NEXT ONE IN TWO MINUTES, JUST IN TIME FOR THE BREAK. LET'S GET ONE MORE IN HERE. GOD DOES HIS BEST WHEN WE GIVE OUR SUFFERINGS TO HIM. HOW DO WE GET THIS MESSAGE TO THOSE WHO GAVE UP ON THEIR FAITH BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE HE CAUSED THEIR SUFFERINGS? HOW DO WE COMMUNICATE TO OTHERS THAT GOD IS GOOD AND WILL NOT FORSAKE THEM AND IF THEY BELIEVE IN HIM? THIS IS JEWEL. >> Father: THAT IS REALLY AN EXCELLENT QUESTION, JEWEL. NOW, THE TWO MINUTE ANSWER AND WE MAY HAVE TO COME BACK AFTER THE BREAK. BUT THE 2 MINUTE ANSWER, ABANDON THAT PREVIOUS PERSPECTIVE FOR A MOMENT. TAKE ON A MUCH BIGGER PERSPECTIVE. NAMELY, THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE RESURRECTION AND THE PERSPECTIVE OF LOVE. IF YOU HAVE THAT BOOK, THE SOUL'S -- NOT THE SOUL'S UPWARD. THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS, READ CHAPTER 1 ABOUT THE RESURRECTION PERSPECTIVE, THE CHAPTER WE'RE READING NOW, CHAPTER 6 ON THE UNITY OF SUFFERING AND LOVE THROUGH FAITH. IF THEY CAN GET THE BROADER PERSPECTIVE, THEN YOU CAN CHANGE THEIR MINDS. BUT THERE'S AN OLD JESUIT PRINCIPLE OF RHETORIC. ARGUE FROM PRINCIPLES TO ISSUES. DON'T TRY TO JUST CHANGE THEIR MIND ON THE LEVEL OF ISSUES. PRINCIPLES ARE THE HIGHER VIEWPOINTS. PRINCIPLES ARE THE BASIC HERMENEUTIC THAT DETERMINES THE FRAMEWORK THAT DETERMINES HOW YOU ARE GOING TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUES. AND THERE'S TWO PRINCIPLES THAT YOU GOT TO GET TO THEM. AND THE FIRST IS, THE RESURRECTION. IN CHAPTER 1, GIVE YOU ALL THIS EVIDENCE FOR THE RESURRECTION. NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES, CONTEMPORARY SCIENTIFICALLY VALIDATED SCIENTIFIC MIRACLES AND ESPECIALLY THE SHROUD OF TURIN AND SO MUCH MORE. AND THEN THEY HAVE TO GET THE PERSPECTIVE THAT LOVE AND SUFFERING ARE ABSOLUTELY LINKED THROUGH FAITH. SUFFERING INTERPRETED THROUGH FAITH WILL LEAD TO A GREATER LOVE. AND ULTIMATELY, TOWARD YOUR SALVATION. NOW, IF THEY CAN GET THOSE TWO FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES, NOW, YOU CAN COME BACK DOWN AND CHANGE THEIR MIND ON THE ISSUES. SO, DON'T TRY TO TAKE THE ISSUE HEAD ON. GO UP TO THE PRINCIPLES. GIVE THEM THOSE TWO PRINCIPLES WHICH IS THE BROAD, HUGE FRAMING CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE AND THEN ZERO IN. NOW, WITH THESE TWO PERSPECTIVES, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR PAST SUFFERINGS AND SEE IF YOUR PREVIOUS INTERPRETATION IS COMPLETELY CORRECT. FAR MORE ERRORS OF OMISSION THAN CO-MISSION, YOU MIGHT HAVE FORGOTTEN SOMETHING. >> Doug: GOOD POINT. AND THAT'S A GREAT ANSWER IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. THAT'S SPEED SPITZER RIGHT HERE ON "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" AND OF COURSE, THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS IS THE BOOK. DON'T FORGET, STAY WITH US. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO GET WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. STAY WITH US RIGHT HERE, AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK AFTER THIS VERY SHORT BREAK. ♪ ♪ >> Doug: AND AS ALWAYS, WE'RE PARKED AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON AND YOU CAN FIND OUT ALL OF THE TIMES OF THE REAIRINGS OF THIS PROGRAM ON OUR WEB SITE, ewtn.com. FATHER, AS WE REJOIN YOU, LET'S JUMP TOWARD THE END OF THE CHAPTER THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU. LET ME ASK YOU HERE. YOU HAVE IN HERE, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE SAINTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR BOOK, THOMAS AQUINAS, GONZAGA -- WONDER HOW GONZAGA GOT IN THERE. SAINT DREXEL, ELIZABETH ANN SETON. AND YOU TALK ABOUT THEM, RICH AND POOR, AND YOU TALK ABOUT THEM FINDING A DIRECT ROUTE TO SAINTHOOD SO THEY HAVE LESS STAGES, THERE'S A SPECIAL ROUTE FOR THESE PEOPLE. HOW DOES THAT WORK? >> Father: WELL, JUST SEEMS LIKE THERE'S TWO GROUPS OF SAINTS. SOME OF THEM JUST SEEM TO HAVE ALMOST AN AUTOMATIC CONTEMPLATIVE LIFE. THEY JUST SEEM TO SPRING FORWARD INTO SAINTHOOD ALMOST EFFORTLESSLY, SPIRITUALLY, RATIONALLY. AND I LOOK AT THOMAS AQUINAS. IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THAT TRAJECTORY WAS TOTALLY DIRECT. I MEAN, HE WAS BORN, RAISED AND OF COURSE HIS FATHER DIDN'T WANT HIM TO BE AT ALL A DOMINICAN. AND THAT WAS NOT BIG ON THE RELIGIOUS LIFE OR THE PRIESTHOOD. THAT'S FOR SURE. BUT AQUINAS HIMSELF, YOU KNOW, DESPITE ALL OF THAT, KIND OF ZOOMED RIGHT IN THERE, INTO THE RELIGIOUS LIFE AND JUST ZOOMED INTO SAINTHOOD. SO, IT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY WAY. KIND OF AMAZING. THEN, I LOOK AT A GUY LIKE ST. PAUL OR ST. AUGUSTINE, OR ST. IGNATIUS. TALKING ABOUT ZIGZAGGING. I MEAN, THESE GUYS, THEY WERE THE ONES THAT NEEDED THE SUFFERING. PAUL THINKS HE'S ON THE RIGHT TRAJECTORY BUT HE'S ON THE WRONG TRAJECTORY. AND OF COURSE, HE HAS TO BE CALLED OUT OF IT WITH A LITTLE BIT OF AN APPEARANCE OF THE RISEN CHRIST THAT BLINDS HIM PRACTICALLY AND KNOCKS HIM OFF HIS HORSE. AND YOU HAVE ST. AUGUSTINE THAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT, AND DEFINITELY ON THE WRONG TRAJECTORY. HE DOESN'T EVEN HAVE GOD IN MIND. AS HE SAID, I WAS JUST GOING FOR THE BLOOD LUST IN THE COLISEUM AND ALL OF THE OTHER FORMS OF LUST THAT I COULD GET MY HANDS ON AND LIVING THAT GREAT OLE LIFE. BUT SOMETHING HAPPENED TO ME. I STARTED FEELING WITH GREAT EMPTINESS AND KIND OF A DARKNESS, AND A MEANINGLESSNESS IN LIFE. AND YOU KNOW, I HAD TO START LOOKING AROUND FOR SOME OTHER MEANING. BUT I WAS IN PAIN. SO, I FOUND PHILOSOPHY, PLATONIC PHILOSOPHY TO HELP ME SEE THESE TRANSCENDENTALS OF PERFECT LOVE, TRUTH, AND BEAUTY. AND THEN, AGAIN, HE GETS OFF THE WRONG PATH AND TRIES TO GET BACK TO THE PERFECT LOVE TRUTH AND BEAUTY ALL BY HIMSELF. AND SAINT AMBROSE HAS TO REDIRECT HIM AND SAYS, YOU KNOW, YOU REALLY NEED TO HAVE EMMANUEL. YOU NEED GOD WITH US IN ORDER TO DO THAT AND AUGUSTINE SAYS I'VE BEEN SPENDING THE YEAR IN ABJECT PAIN CONFRONTING THE ABYSS BECAUSE I CAN'T GET THERE MYSELF. AND WE HAVE JESUS HERE. AND OF COURSE, HE DISCOVERS HIS MOTHER WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG. JESUS IS EMMANUEL. BUT THEN HE GOES OFF THE PATH AGAIN. AND THERE HE IS, TRYING, YOU CAN'T RECONCILE HIMSELF TO THE OLD TESTAMENT. HE SAYS, I JUST DON'T BELIEVE THE OLD TESTAMENT. JESUS I CAN GET. NEW TESTAMENT I CAN GET. OLD TESTAMENT, FORGET ABOUT IT. THAT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT GOD. AND I'M NOT GOING FOR THAT. SO, OF COURSE, SAINT AMBROSE HAS TO COME BACK AND SAY, ST. AUGUSTINE, OKAY, HERE'S THE KEY THING. YOU GOT TO DO THIS. SO FORTH AND SO ON. AND SO, THE MAIN THING IS, GOD CALLS HIM AND ST. IGNATIUS AS I JUST SAID, CANON BALL WAS REQUIRED. >> Doug: SO, TALKING ABOUT IN THIS SECTION, TOWARD THE END OF THIS PARTICULAR CHAPTER SO WE CAN FINISH THIS OFF AND GET BACK TO SOME OTHER QUESTIONS PEOPLE HAVE. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE FOURTH LEVEL OF LOVE. AND YOU SAID IN THE CONCLUSION, AT THE HEIGHT OF THE CONCLUSION OF FOURTH LEVEL OF LOVE, SUFFERING AND LOVE UNIFIED ONLY FOR A WHILE DURING THE REMAINDER OF THE EARTHLY LOVE. AND THIS CALLS FOR SACRIFICE FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD. WHEN SUFFERING HAS DONE ITS PURIFYING WORK AND WHEN IT HAS BEEN FREELY EMBRACED AS AN ACT OF LOVE, IT IS NO LONGER NECESSARY. HOW SO? >> Father: WELL, THAT MEANS IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. SO, AS WE'RE KIND OF PROGRESSING ON, IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, AS I SAY, THE PAINTS PAID THEIR DUES. THEY HAVE BEEN PURIFIED. THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH THE DARK NIGHT OF THE SENSES. THE DARK NIGHT OF THE SPIRIT. THEY HAVE BASICALLY MADE SACRIFICES TO THE HILT TO IMITATE CHRIST, TO SERVE HIS PEOPLE. TO SERVE THE POOR AND THE NEEDY. AND TO SERVE THOSE IN DESPERATE NEED OF FAITH. THEY GAVE THEMSELVES COMPLETELY TO THE EFFORT IN THE LOVE OF GOD AND IN THE IMITATION OF CHRIST. AND YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY HAVE DONE THAT, AND THEIR LOVE IS ESSENTIALLY PURIFIED, GOD EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT BE PERFECT WHEN THEY ARE DYING, GOD CAN TAKE THAT, RIGHT, AND HE CAN TAKE THEM RIGHT TO HIMSELF IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. THEY ARE READY TO GO. AND OF COURSE, SUFFERING IS NO LONGER REQUIRED FOR ANY KIND OF PURIFICATION. THEY HAVE ALREADY SERVED HUMANITY TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY CAN SERVE THEM IN THIS WORLD. NOW THEY ARE GOING TO SERVE HUMANITY THROUGH THEIR PRAYERS IN HEAVEN. BUT THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE SUFFERING BECAUSE OF COURSE, THOSE PRAYERS ARE JOINED IN PRAISE THE GOD, IN AN ATMOSPHERE OF COMPLETE JOY AND KNOWLEDGE. SO, ESSENTIALLY, THE IDEA THAT SUFFERING IS NEEDED FOR THE PURIFICATION OF LOVE, THE ANSWER IS, ONLY FOR A SHORT TIME. ONCE THAT WINDOW IS OVER, THEN OF COURSE, THERE'S AN ETERNITY WHERE SUFFERING IS COMPLETELY NO LONGER REQUIRED AND NO LONGER USEFUL. OF COURSE, GOD TAKES IT AWAY FROM US IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN WHERE THE PAINTS GO IMMEDIATELY AFTER DEATH. SO, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, SUFFERING HAS A VALUE INTERPRETED THROUGH FAITH. BUT ONLY TEMPORARILY. >> Doug: VERY GOOD. AND THAT KIND OF WRAPS UP CHAPTER 6. NEXT WEEK WE'RE GOING TO START TALKING ABOUT CHAPTER 7, FINDING LIGHT IN THE DARKNESS. BUT LET'S GET TO SOME OTHER QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN SENT TO US OFF THIS EARLIER CHAPTER. FATHER, I WISH I COULD CONFESS TO YOU, AS YOU UNDERSTAND THINGS THAT I CAN'T EXPRESS. THAT'S VERY NICE. SO MANY LOVED ONES ARE NOW ON THE OTHER SIDE THAT I FEEL ABANDONED. I CAN REMEMBER MY GRANDMOTHER EXPRESSING THE SAME THING NEAR THE END OF HER LIFE. I'M JEALOUS OF THEIR FREEDOM FROM PAIN AND THIS HATEFUL WORLD. I'VE HAD RAGE, AS IT SEEMS EVERYTHING I TRY FAILS. I DOUBT EVERYTHING. IS THIS ATTITUDE A SIN? >> Father: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, YEAH, NO. NO. IT'S NOT A SIN TO HAVE, WHAT I WOULD CALL A PERFECTLY INSTINCTUAL REACTION. BUT AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO BELABOR LOWER SELF VS. HIGHER SELF. SOMETIMES WE HAVE THOSE TWO SELVES TO THINK ABOUT. AND THEY OFFER TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES. THE LOWER SELF IS REALLY, WHAT I CALL MY LEVEL ONE AND LEVEL TWO SELF. AND A LONG TIME AGO, WE TALKED ABOUT THE FOUR LEVELS OF HAPPINESS. BUT ESSENTIALLY, LEVEL ONE IS WORRIED ABOUT, WELL, PLEASURE AND PAIN. AVOIDING PAIN AND OBTAINING PLEASURE AND MATERIALISTIC THINGS. AND LEVEL TWO IS WORRIED ABOUT EGO COMPARATIVE HAPPINESS. AND SEE, EVEN IF WE HAVE LEFT THAT BEHIND, RIGHT, AND BASICALLY, WE'VE CHOSEN IN OUR CONSCIOUS MIND, WE'VE CHOSEN CONTRIBUTIVE LEARNING AND CHOSEN FAITH, TRANSCENDENCE AND A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD WHICH IS LEVEL FOUR. EVEN THOUGH THAT'S WHAT WE REALLY WANT AS OUR DOMINANT, WE HAVE THIS LITTLE PROBLEM OF THOSE OTHER TWO LEVELS OF HAPPINESS FORMING THE LOWER SELF. AND THEY ARE STILL THERE. YOU KNOW, AND THEY POP RIGHT IN. EVEN IF YOU HAVE CHOSEN 30 YEARS AGO, YOU SAID I MADE UP MY MIND. I'M LIVING FOR FAITH, I'M LIVING FOR LOVE. I'M GOING TO FOLLOW CHRIST. YOU GOT A GOOD CONSCIOUS DECISION. AND THAT OTHER LITTLE SELF STILL LURKS AROUND THE CORNER. WHAT HAPPENS, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES OF SUFFERING AND IN PAIN, THAT LOWER SELF, IT GETS CALLED FORWARD RIGHT AWAY. IT'S A DEFAULT DRIVE. AND THE LOWER SELF IMMEDIATELY ENGAGES YOUR FRUSTRATION AND YOUR ANGER AND IT IMMEDIATELY ENGAGES THAT SENSE OF, YOU KNOW, ALMOST JEALOUSY TOWARD PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY FREED FROM THE PAIN. IT ENGAGES ALL THIS STUFF THAT DOES THE COMPARISONS, THAT DOES THE AVOIDANCE OF PAIN THING AND SO FORTH AND SO ON. AND THE LOWER SELF GETS IMMEDIATELY ENGAGED. SO, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT BEING A SIN. IT'S NOT A SIN. OUR LOWER SELVES GET ENGAGED ALL THE TIME. MY LOWER SELF GETS ENGAGED ALL THE TIME. AND I HAVE TO CHOOSE THAT HIGHER SELF, LEVEL THREE AND FOUR. I HAVE TO CHOOSE THAT PERSPECTIVE. SO, I JUST SAY, OKAY. LORD. HELP ME OUT HERE. I'M CHOOSING MY HIGHER SELF. I'M CHOOSING THE SELF THAT, YOU KNOW, THE SAINT SELF THAT WANTS TO FOLLOW YOU. AND WE ALL, AS I SAID, IF WE MADE THE FUNDAMENTAL CHOICE TO FOLLOW CHRIST IN FAITH AND IN LOVE, WE'VE GOT A SAINT SELF. AND ALL WE GOT TO DO IS CHOOSE IT BEFORE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE GET IN THERE AND SAY, OKAY. I'M GOING TO LOOK AT THIS WHOLE THING FROM MY SAINT SELF SIDE. AND PICK YOUR FAVORITE SAINT. AND ALMOST VISUALIZE YOUR FAVORITE SAINT. THAT'S YOUR HIGHER SELF. AND THEN, START LOOKING AT THE SAME THINGS FROM THE SAINT SELF SIDE. HOW WOULD ST. THERESE -- SAY SHE'S YOUR FAVORITE SAINT -- HOW WOULD SHE LOOK AT THIS EVENT. MAYBE YOUR FAVORITE SAINT, YOU KNOW, IS SAINT CATHERINE OF SIENNA. HOW WOULD SHE LOOK AT THIS THROUGH HER EYES? AND SO FORTH. BUT THEY ARE YOUR EYES TOO BECAUSE YOU MADE THE CHOICE. YOU ALREADY CHOSE TO PUT YOUR FAITH AND LOVE IN GOD AND YOU CHOSE TO BE A SAINT. ALL YOU GOT TO DO IS BRING THAT PERSPECTIVE OF HOW SHE WOULD REACT TO THIS. BRING IT TO YOURSELF AND START MAKING YOUR JUDGMENTS WITH THAT HIGHER SELF BECAUSE IT BELONGS TO AS MUCH AS THE LOWER SELF, EVEN THOUGH DURING TIMES OF PAIN, THE LOWER SELF WANTS TO ELBOW THE HIGHER SELF RIGHT OUT OF THERE. IT WANTS TO ENGAGE THE TEMPTATION, RIGHT? AND IT, ONCE THE TEMPTATION AND FRUSTRATION GETS ENGAGED, IT'S HARD TO BREAK IT. BUT JUST SAY, I CHOOSE MY HIGHER SELF. I CHOOSE MY THERESE OF LISEAUX SELF OR WHOEVER IT MIGHT BE. I CHOOSE MY MOTHER TERESA SELF. AND I CHOOSE THAT SELF FOR MYSELF. AND ONCE YOU CHOOSE IT, YOU CAN BREAK THAT SPELL OF FRUSTRATION AND ANGER. >> THAT ELBOW YOU WERE THROWING, IS THAT THE SOCCER OR ARCHERY, OR WHERE? >> BASKETBALL. GET THE OLD ELBOW IN THE NECK! [LAUGHTER] >> Doug: IN ALL LOVING KINDNESS. >> Father: IN ALL LOVING KINDNESS, EXACTLY. >> Father: HERE'S ANOTHER QUESTION WE HAVE. THEY WROTE, BESIDES PHYSICAL SUFFERING THERE IS ALSO MENTAL SUFFERING. AND OF COURSE WE KNOW THAT FROM EVEN WHAT'S GOING ON IN HOUSTON RIGHT NOW. IS MENTAL SUFFERING FROM GOD? CAN IT BE FROM GOD? THIS IS FROM LOUIE. I GUESS, THE QUESTION GOING BACK TO SUFFERING, COMING FROM GOD, MAYBE PHYSICAL SUFFERING ISN'T BUT IS MENTAL SUFFERING COMING FROM GOD? >> Father: YEAH, ACTUALLY THERE'S TWO KINDS OF MENTAL SUFFERING. AND MAYBE WE'LL CALL IT PSYCHOLOGICAL SUFFERING. I WOULD SAY MAYBE 1/8 IS CAUSED BY GOD AND 7/8 IS CAUSED BY NATURE AND BY OUR OWN CHOICES. SO, LET ME JUST SORT OF DESCRIBE EACH BECAUSE IT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION. THE 1/8 THAT COMES FROM GOD, WHAT ST. IGNATIUS, HE HAS THESE TWO WEEKS IN WHAT HE CALLS SPIRITUAL DISCERNMENT AND WHEN PEOPLE ARE IN THE FIRST WEEK. WHAT HE MEANS BY PEOPLE BEING IN THE FIRST WEEK, THEY ARE COMPLETELY UNCONVERTED. THEY ARE LITERALLY GOING FROM SIN TO SIN, AS IGNATIUS SAYS AND ALMOST OBLIVIOUS TO THE FACT THIS THEY ARE GOING DEEPER AND DEEPER INTO THE DARKNESS. THEY DO FEEL AN EMPTINESS, LONELINESS AND ALIENATION AND THEY DO FEEL THAT THEIR EGOCENTRICITY IS RUINING RELATIONSHIP WITH OTHERS BUT THEY ARE KIND OF BLOWING BY IT. THEY ARE BLOWING BY WHAT THEY ARE DOING FOR OTHERS AND BLOWING BY WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO THEMSELVES, ENTERING INTO A SPIRITUAL DARKNESS. THEY ARE GETTING PULLED IN DEEPER AND DEEPER BY THE EVIL SPIRIT. AND FINALLY, THE LORD SORT OF COMES ALONG AND SAYS, I HAVE TO GIVE THIS GUY A LITTLE DESOLATION. AND I GOT TO SHOCK HIM OUT OF SUPERFICIALITY. SO, IT'S LIKE THE LORD COMES THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND GIVES THIS PERSON AN INOCULATION OF DEEP EMPTINESS AND DEEP ALIENATION AND DEEP LONELINESS AND DEEP GUILT. AND THIS GUY IS BLOWING BACKWARDS GOING, WHAT IN THE WORLD IS HAPPENING TO ME! I FEEL LIKE ALL OF A SUDDEN, I'M TOTALLY ALONE IN THE WORLD, EVERYTHING IS DARK OUT THERE, AND I'M FEELING THE MOST EMPTINESS THAT I HAVE EVER FELT IN THE PIT OF MY STOMACH, NOTHING SUBSTANTIVE SEEMS TO COME FROM ME. I'M LOOKING AT MYSELF IN THE MIRROR AND ALL IT'S DOING IS PRODUCING ANXIETY. I CAN'T EVEN SHAVE. WHAT IN THE WORLD IS GOING ON. TAKE NOTICE SAYS IGNATIUS BECAUSE GOD IS TRYING TO MAKE A LAST MINUTE ATTEMPT TO TELL YOU, YOU ARE GOING DOWN THE WRONG PATH. WHAT IS HE TRYING TO DO. HE'S TRYING TO GET YOU TO QUESTION THE MEANING OF YOUR LIFE AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING. IF HE SUCCEEDS IN THAT PAIN TO CAUSE YOU TO HAVE ONE QUESTION ABOUT THAT, THEN BELIEVE ME, THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOING TO SEND ONE OR TWO PEOPLE INTO YOUR LIFE. YOU WILL NOT KNOW WHY OR HOW, BUT THEY WILL COME INTO YOUR LIFE WITHIN A FEW DAYS. AND THEY WILL SORT OF SAY, HEY, JOE, YOU KNOW, HAVE YOU EVER CONSIDERED THINKING ABOUT GOING TO CHURCH, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW, WE GOT THIS GREAT PRIEST. HEY, JOE, I GOT THIS BOOK FROM C.S. LEWIS, YOU OUGHT TO TAKE A LOOK, THE GREAT DIVORCE. >> Doug: THAT'S A GREAT BOOK. >> Father: OH, IT'S A GREAT BOOK. AND REALLY INFLUENCED ME AS A YOUNG MAN. AND OF COURSE, ALL OF A SUDDEN, BING BANG, THE CALL COMES FORWARD. AND GOD DOES THAT, I CALL IT THE INOCULATION OF DEEP SPIRIT OF SENSE OF LONELINESS, AND THEY FEEL IT DEEPLY AND GOD WILL SEND SOMEONE IN TO HELP THAT. AND THE 7/8 COMES IN -- >> Doug: GO AHEAD. I'M SORRY. >> Father: NO, NO. >> Doug: I WAS GOING TO SAY, IS SOME OF THAT MENTAL ANGUISH THAT SOMEBODY IS GOING THROUGH? COULD THAT ALSO BE A FORM OF GUILT IN WHICH CASE SOMEBODY IS SUFFERING BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON IN THEIR LIVES THAT THERE SHOULDN'T BE? >> Father: OH, YEAH. FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES, REMEMBER, GUILT COMES FROM CONSCIENCE AND THE FEELINGS OF GUILT AND CONSCIENCE ULTIMATELY COME FROM GOD. AND THERE'S JUST A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL HOMILY WRITTEN BY JOHN HENRY CARDINAL NEWMAN, JUST PUTTING HIS HOMILY ON CONSCIENCE INTO YOUR GOOGLE DRIVER. IT'S FREE OF CHARGE FOR THAT HOMILY. HE JUST DESCRIBES WHAT CONSCIENCE IS AND HOW GOD'S VOICE, AS IT WERE, IS PLAYING A PART IN CONSCIENCE. SO, OH, YES, WHEN YOU FEEL THAT GUILT THROUGH CONSCIENCE WHICH WE CONSIDER TO BE A NATURAL THING, THOMAS AQUINAS CONSIDERED IT TO BE A NATURAL THING AND THE CAUSE OF CONSCIENCE IS LITERALLY THE LOVING VOICE OF GOD BUT HE IS UTILIZING THAT BUILT, THAT PAIN, AND SELF ALIENATION WITHIN CONSCIENCE TO BE, YOU ARE KILLING YOURSELF, STOP IT. YOU ARE KILLING THESE PEOPLE AROUND YOU. STOP IT. YOU ARE KILLING MY KINGDOM. STOP IT. AND IT'S NOT GOING TO FEEL ANY BETTER THAN ST. PAUL GETTING KNOCKED OFF THE OLE HORSE. IT CAN BE PRETTY BAD. BUT I JUST WANT TO RETURN TO THE OTHER 7/8 TO FINISH YOUR QUESTION. THE 7/8 THAT COME FROM WHAT MAY BE CALLED NATURAL CAUSES HAVE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT SOURCES. THE FIRST THING IS, IT COULD AUTO COME FROM SOME KIND OF A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE IN THE BRAIN OR SOME KIND OF CHEMICAL IMBALANCE HORMONALLY. AND SOMETIMES WHEN THIS HAPPENS, YOU CAN GET A FORM OF DEPRESSION OR MENTAL ANGUISH AND YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND IT. AND THEN, YOU GET A BLOOD TEST AND THEY TEST YOU FOR CERTAIN, THREE KINDS OF CHEMICALS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, THEY CAN TELL YOU IN A HURRY, YEAH, YOU HAVE GOT A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE OR YOU HAVE A HORMONAL IMBALANCE. HERE, TAKE THESE DRUGS. AND YOU SHOULD TAKE THE DRUGS. YOU SHOULD NOT PERSIST IN TRYING TO OPERATE WITHIN A NATURAL CHEMICAL IMBALANCE IN YOU. AND A SECOND SOURCE IS NOT SO MUCH BIO PHYSICAL OR BIO CHEMICAL BUT ACTUALLY COMES FROM THE WAY THAT WE INTERPRET HAPPINESS. AND SO, REMEMBER, ANTICIPATION CAN CAUSE AS MUCH SUFFERING AND SOMETIMES OUR OWN VIEWS OF HAPPINESS CAUSES AS MUCH SUFFERING AS ACTUAL PHYSICAL PAIN OR DEPRIVATION OR GRIEF OR LOSS. RIGHT? SO, IN OTHER WORDS, IF WE THINK WE DON'T HAVE WHAT WE NEED TO MAKE US HAPPY, WE WILL BE UNHAPPY. BUT THAT'S IN YOUR HEAD! IN OTHER WORDS, YOU DON'T WANT TO BE DEFINING HAPPINESS IN A WAY, THAT IN ORDER FOR ME TO BE HAPPY, I MUST HAVE $30 MILLION AND A MANSION IN BEVERLY HILLS. AND THEN, OF COURSE, YOU DON'T GET $30 MILLION AND THE MANSION IN BEVERLY HILLS. LO AND BEHOLD, YOU ARE JUST UNCONSOLABLE. YOU ARE UNHAPPY. AND YOU WON'T BE HAPPY UNTIL YOU CHANGE YOUR DEFINITION OF HAPPINESS. SO, I BEG YOU, GO BACK TO BOOK NUMBER ONE OF THAT QUAD, OF THE QUARTET THERE. GO TO THAT BOOK, FINDING TRUE HAPPINESS. READ CHAPTERS 3 AND 4. DEFINING HAPPINESS IS SO CRUCIAL TO REAL HAPPINESS. THERE IS A THIRD REASON THAT WE CAN BE TERRIBLY UNHAPPY. AND THAT IS, BECAUSE OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO STRUGGLE WITH THE SUFFERINGS THAT WE HAVE, WHAT WE DO IS INSTEAD OF GOING TO OUR HIGHER SELF, INSTEAD OF GOING TO THE LORD IN TRUST, WHAT WE DO IS, WE DO WHAT I CALL THE JOB ROUTE. WE'RE GOING TO SIT THERE AND QUESTION EVERY SINGLE THING AND ATTRIBUTE EVERY IMAGINABLE BAD FAITH MOTIVE TO GOD. AND WHY DO IT. RIGHT? IT'S NOT A SIN. WE'RE DOING IT IMPLICITLY. AND WE'RE JUST GOING, OH, I DON'T KNOW IF GOD IS HERE. I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THAT I DESERVE THIS, SO FORTH, AND SO ON. BUT WHERE DOES ALL THAT BAD ATTRIBUTION TO GOD COME FROM, BAD ATTRIBUTION TO GOD COME FROM? YOU HAVE A FALSE NOTION OF GOD IN YOUR HEAD. AND SOMETIMES IT'S IN YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS HEAD, IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND. SO, I WANT YOU, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE BOOK, THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS THAT WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING, FIND THAT BOOK IN THE LIBRARY. XEROX CHAPTER TWO. AND I'LL BET YOU, I'LL BET YOU ANYTHING, IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, TRUSTING IN GOD, HOPING IN GOD OR YOU ARE ATTRIBUTING BAD FAITH TO GOD OR ATTRIBUTING GOD'S WANTING TO POUND THE WEAKNESS OUT OF YOU, OR GOD IS TICKED OFF AT ME FROM SOMETHING IN THE PAST. I'LL BET YOU ANYTHING THAT YOU GET ONE OF THOSE SIX FALSE NOTIONS OF GOD THAT I DISCUSSED IN THE BOOK. TURNING IT ALL AROUND. GIVE IT OVER, THOSE BAD NOTIONS, TO GOD. AND TAKE ON THE FATHER OF THE PRODIGAL SON. THERE'S YOUR GOD. AND I'M TELLING YOU, IF YOU CAN KEEP THOSE THINGS IN MIND, YOU CAN STAVE OFF A LOT OF MENTAL ANGUISH, NATURAL CAUSES. >> Doug: AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME TOO, THE PERSON WHO DOESN'T GET THE MULTIMILLION DOLLARS HOUSE OR JOB OR WHATEVER. THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE PERSON WHO HAS THAT ISN'T NECESSARILY HAPPY EITHER. >> Father: ABSOLUTELY! IN FACT, MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT DO HAVE THAT, TAKE A LOOK AT SUICIDE RATES. SUICIDE RATES ARE NOT AFFECTED BY WEALTH. IN FACT, WEALTHY PEOPLE HAVE HIGHER SUICIDE RATES THAN NON WEALTHY PEOPLE. SO, WEALTH CERTAINLY DOESN'T PRODUCE HAPPINESS. THE HIGHEST SUICIDE RATES COME FROM? YOU KNOW WHERE THEY COME FROM? WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE FAITH. NON RELIGIOUSLY AFFILIATED PEOPLE HAVE THE HIGHEST SUICIDE RATES. AND OF COURSE, COMPARED TO RELIGIOUSLY AFFILIATED PEOPLE HAVE LOWER SUICIDE RATES AND I'VE CITED THAT STUDY BEFORE, AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION. VERY GOOD STUDY. IT'S A 2004 STUDY, DERVICK. AND ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS IN YOUR GOOGLE, PUT SUICIDE RATES, RELIGION, AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC STUDY, YOU WILL GET THAT WHOLE STUDY FREE OF CHARGE RIGHT ON THE WEB SITE THERE. >> AND ONE QUICK QUESTION. ONE MORE QUESTION. IS IT OK TO PRAY FOR THE SAME HEALING DAILY? IS ONLY ONCE DAILY, ENOUGH. AND IF THERE IS NO HEALING, JUST ACCEPT IT AS THE LORDS WILL? EDWIN. >> Father: WELL, EDWIN, YOU KNOW, I PRAY THIS PRAYER FOR HEALING. LORD, IF IT BE YOUR WILL, THEN HEAL MY EYES. BUT IF NOT YOUR WILL, IF IT'S NOT YOUR WILL, THEN YOUR WILL BE DONE. AND OF COURSE, YOU WILL RECOGNIZE THAT PRAYER IMMEDIATELY AS THE PRAYER OF JESUS IN THE GARDEN OF GETHSEMANI. IS IT OKAY TO PRAY THE PRAYER THREE TIMES A DAY? YEAH, I DO IT. I WANT HEALING FOR MY EYES. I WANT HEALING FOR MY EYES ONLY IF IT'S HIS WILL. IF IT'S NOT HIS WILL, I TELL HIM DON'T DO IT. DON'T HEAL MY EYES. IF THERE'S SOMETHING MORE TO COME, YOU KEEP DOING YOUR THING. IS THE LORD CAPABLE OF MIRACLES? ABSOLUTELY HE'S CAPABLE OF MIRACLES. YOU KNOW, I HAVE NO IDEA. BUT ONE DAY I MIGHT WAKE UP AND GO, OH, WHOA, I CAN SEE. MAYBE I'LL GET THAT THERAPY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA. MAYBE I'LL TAKE THOSE BANDAGES OFF AND MAYBE I'LL SEE. BUT I WOULD SAY THAT'S THE PRAYER TO PRAY. THE PRAYER OF JESUS IN THE GARDEN, FATHER, IF IT BE YOUR WILL, THEN TAKE THIS CUP OF SUFFERING AWAY FROM ME. BUT IF NOT, THEN THY WILL BE DONE. >> Doug: VERY GOOD. WHAT A PERFECT WAY TO CLOSE. OUR PRAYERS AND THOUGHTS WITH ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SERVED UNDER HURRICANE HARVEY. WE CONTINUE TO PRAY FOR THEM. AND NEXT WEEK, WE'LL TALK ABOUT CHAPTER 7 DEALING WITH THE LIGHT SHINES ON IN THE DARKNESS, TRANSFORMING SUFFERING THROUGH FAITH. OKAY. PART FOUR OF THE QUARTET. SO, CHECK THAT OUT. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK, FATHER. HOPEFULLY WE'LL SEE YOU AS WELL, RIGHT HERE ON "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE". WE'VE GOT MOTHER ANGELICA ON PRAYER AND LIVING FOR THE KINGDOM. I HAVE TO MENTION THIS AGAIN. IT'S JUST A TERRIFIC BOOK AND FATHER JOSEPH AND I BOTH AGREED WE THOUGHT IT WAS THE BEST ONE THAT CAME OUT. ewtnRC.com. AND DON'T FORGET, TONIGHT, FATHER MITCH, CHECK OUT THE PROGRAM, CALLED AND CHOSEN, WITH FATHER VINCENT CAPODANNO. AN EWTN EVENT. CHECK OUT THE OTHER RE-AIRS AND I'M SURE IT WILL BE RE-AIRED LATER IN SEPTEMBER AGAIN. A WONDERFUL PROGRAM. DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE FAMILY CELEBRATION COMING TO WORCESTER MASSACHUSETTS COMING SEPTEMBER 9 AND 10. WE HOPE TO SEE YOU THEN! AND WE HOPE TO SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK. WE HOPE TO COME INTO CONTACT AGAIN NEXT WEEK AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON WITH FATHER SPITZER. ♪
