Enneagram: The Difference Between 4w3 and 4w5

thank you guys for joining me for this video today we're going to be talking about Enneagram type 4 specifically we're going to be looking at the wings the 4 3 and the 4 wing 5 and helping you understand a little bit more about what each of those nuanced differences look like and I'll say throughout all these videos on wings that I think the path back to a healthy you is often by learning to develop the the wing that is you know less important and less dominant in your life so if you're a 4 wing 3 as you go through this video and maybe you already know but if you watch this video and you think oh yeah I think I might be a 4 wing 3 that better described me then moving toward the 5 and learning more about the 5 then would be a a good step for you in becoming a healthier more balanced you same thing with the 4 wing 5 to 2 then if your 5 is the most dominant wing then to learn to develop more of those three characteristics in your life and lean more on that that alternate wing and you will you will move immediately in a more healthy direction a more positive direction for yourself I want to say a little bit about fours as I continue to learn and grow and understand more about each type you know I want to share that with you guys in each of these videos so before we just jump right in to the 4 wings you know the wings for the 4 I wanted to just take a little bit of time and talk about force you know and I read your guys comments and I appreciate your comments I get a lot of comments from fours and you know continue to study and grow in my own understanding and you know let's start by saying this twos threes and fours you guys know are all in the worth or shame group and in my mind essentially what that means is because we don't live in the Garden of Eden any longer week we struggle with anger with fear and twos threes and fours dominantly and predominantly a shame although all of us you know move around that and struggling with those and trying to cope and develop strategies with with these with these falling characteristics so for twos threes and fours the the fundamental issue is one of shame or worth and so the way I would say this is twos threes and fours are all dealing with the question of a my loveable am I of value do I have Worth and value and of course you do everybody does if you walk into the nursery of any hospital and you see infants lying there and you know their their cribs or whatever those are called the I have five kids so I've seen it I've been there I just don't remember what they call them the baskets you know that they're in those plastic tubs that the babies are in you you look at a room full of those little infants or go into a preschool room you know just walk among these little three and four year old toddlers every one of these little infants has immeasurable value they are intrinsically valuable although they have not yet accomplished anything of significant value they don't even have a mastery of language they have not attained any status symbols or certificates or diplomas they have no marketable skills and yet they have intrinsic value simply because they're created in the image of God simply because of who they are and yet something is objective is that that you can see and understand a priori oh you mean you just understand it to be a truth in an objective way like that sometimes when you turn that so objectively to yourself you you can yet struggle with issues of your own Worth and value you can see that yes every infant has a value intrinsically you just understand that nobody needs to tell you that you just you can observe it but yet in your own pursuit your own journey in your own life there may be at times you don't feel that you have value now two threes and fours I'll struggle with this twos sort of go to sleep to that and by becoming such likeable loving caregivers helpful pleasers they they their strategy to cope with that is to gain your love by being so loving themselves but it's a strategy nonetheless threes you know by becoming so dominant and assertive and becoming achievers and accomplishing so many great things and becoming leaders and by winning and by being so attractive and polishing up their image in their persona being so successful they attract people to themselves and it is their strategy for dealing with questions of Worth and issues of shame that's their strategy for coping with this fours have also adopted a strategy for dealing with worth and dealing with this question of mi of value where is my value am i loveable will I be loved and they've developed a strategy as well and I want to talk about that strategy I want to try to investigate that and understand it better before we talk about wings because we could just jump right into wings but I always want to give you more to think about then you know just what you clicked on we're gonna talk about the wings but give me a minute to sort of unpack this and and and you know think about this and a little bit greater detail because it's profound if I'm if if I'm understanding it correctly so force sort of over emphasize that deflated self that self that doesn't measure up so twos and threes both have that same sense of they don't measure up so they compensate so twos compensate by becoming you know such desirable people by being kind friendly nice all that yadda yadda yadda and threes compensate by becoming so successful and productive and useful so threes then in a sense over identify with the fake persona that they've developed the mask you know of being successful sort of like don't look behind the curtain at this person living in shame just stay focused on the image that you see before you okay so they over identify with this false image that they're promoting self promoting okay so more about that on the three video that was released just before this one on wings okay so what the fours doing though is over identifying with that fallenness with that brokenness with that worthlessness over identifying with that that sense of something is missing or something has been lost and something has been lost you're not in the Garden of Eden any longer you we have lost you know that original position that we had so something has been lost you're right but for is over identify with this and it becomes their personality their personality is built around that sense of longing for what's missing for what's been taken from them from all of us really just the rest of us don't over identify with that so force have that great sense that something is missing that something has been lost and they sort of go ah and that's gonna result in certain emotions right sadness sorrow and then what's called the romanticism or the longing for that to be restored the longing for that to be returned what's been so that over-identification with what you might say the deficiency so like twos go to sleep to it and they say oh no everything's fine and they just go to caring and love giving you know and threes to over identifying with the false self that has been produced because of this the fours just accept that it's that something's lost and they over identify with with that and of course there's deep dissatisfaction and deep feelings of being unfulfilled because of that loss now fours then identify over identify with that deficient self like there's deficiency like Eeyore has lost his tail right okay so you might say the shadow self so fours are have this feeling of being dissatisfied with themselves dissatisfied with life dissatisfied with the way things are working out and I think all of us you know understand that and all of us have that sense at times of dissatisfaction with life but you guys are like the prototype for that part in all of us that feels dissatisfied with who we are and dissatisfied for how life has turned out we all have the capacity to feel bad and we all have the capacity to see our flaws but fours you know can over identify with what's lacking in life and it can even become like a spiral that becomes self-fulfilling it's like because you feel so lacking and deficient and you over identify with with that dissatisfaction and that longing for things to be restored it can keep you from accepting opening up to the very things in life that might bring fulfillment okay we're gonna go there it's gonna get a little deeper so the natural strengths of type fours include okay so this becomes there's some just some good sides to this personality type is you're not afraid to go to the dark you're not afraid to go to the emotional emotions and you're not afraid to help others through those difficult emotions that we might want to avoid like sevens for example myself hate dealing with difficult emotions and dark emotions we stay optimistic to a fault maybe and so force can be very empathetic you guys can be very empathetic when it comes to and I by empathetic I mean feeling the deep things that people feel because your willingness to go to the contours of that emotional world you're willing to move in that area more openly than some of the other types do and so you have this ability to help and understand the difficulties and struggles and the loss that people go through in life so you can be extremely emotionally intuitive let's say it that way now here's something interesting okay so you can overdo your focus on pain and suffering sometimes as a way of avoiding deeper or different kinds of pain now that's something to think about that you could you could you could stay over focused in sorrow pain melancholy suffering the flaws of life the dissatisfaction things aren't going right you know as a way of maybe avoiding other things that you don't want to address other emotions or other thoughts that may be so unbecoming that you don't want to to address them so you have this gift of emotional sensitivity but you can become maybe a little over attached to your feelings and again I said before videos that your feelings are a guide to you but they're not necessarily a hundred percent accurate guide they tell you what you is going on in the inside right now at this specific moment but they may not necessarily be the best source of information for you more when we get into the wings about that all right it can sometimes prevent you from thinking and acting objectively because or taking an objective action remember force tend to be in that withdrawn state like fives and 9s where they don't always move to action because of your over-identification with your feelings you may not necessarily see things objectively and it can keep you from taking action you can see what's missing so clearly that it may blind you to what is good and what is hopeful in the situation that you're in and that's become a fulfilling self spiraling prophecy in a sense that you you believe that what is good is is unattainable and just out of grasp and so even when it's offered to you you might find yourself having difficulty reaching out and taking it or even if you take it maybe sometimes you might sabotage it so even if love is offered to you and love is given to you freely you may fight against the very thing that you want and that's that push-pull dynamic that you see in force sometimes where they move in seeking the relationship pursuing the relationship only to like push away from that relationship and move themselves away from the very thing that they want in life however when force can wake up to the ways in which they dwell in that suffering or overdramatize those emotions as a way of distracting themselves distracting themselves that's seven language right there from the deeper need of love they they might begin moving in a healthier direction now now listen to this this is so helpful this is from Beatrice chestnuts book okay so I'm pulling from several books today and I would encourage you to read read read as much as you can if you have time alright fours overdue an attachment to grief the the three heart types also share that sense concern with image okay threes but they're more concerned with how they appear to others while three types in this triad have a formative underlying need to be seen they each acted out this differently based on the ideals they try to fulfill in order to be recognized and appreciated by others so fours are over attracted to grief and over attracted to longing and over tracted to the sense of of not being you know fully themselves not being loved for who they are all three types need to be seen and all three types need to be a need to be told that you are loved for who you are we see you for who you are and we love you for who you are but their respective coping strategies are designed to gain approval from other people in three distinct ways as a substitute for the love they seek but fear or believe they can't get as they are that's powerful in other words there's this fear within twos threes and fours that they they're never gonna really be loved for who they are and so they must cope by creating and developing a strategy while to strive to be likable pleasing threes create an image of achievement and success force present themselves as unique and special or different and I'm sure you have that sense of yourself that you don't fit in or that you know or that you don't care to fit in necessarily but this can be a protection against experiencing other emotions that you fail to fit the idealized image and always striving to reach the unattainable most force report having suffered some sort of actual or perceived loss early in life so you know that the the childhood message is that for some reason the people that were supposed to love you withdrew from you and and it doesn't make sense to you why they did that now that may or may not have actually happened in your life but forth have that sense that love is being withheld from them and it's for no necessary reason it's not that you can't quite put your finger on the purpose or the reason why did that person withhold their love from me why and they may or may not have actually done that but that's kind of how you grew up seeing things okay and maybe they really did maybe you know what the loving parent in your life wasn't there to provide that love for you what fors do is it sounds like it seems like they kind of like blame themselves for that they they go looking internally like what did what is wrong with me what did I do to cause that and the reality is is you know objectively looking at other families that the child often did nothing to cause that there was something wrong inherent in the parent you know the parent was a drug addict or the parent was over focused in their work or the parents split up and divorced and went on to greener pastures and left the child behind left the the wife and child behind but the four internalizes that loss and and and rather than believing that bad things just happened in this world for sparks blame themselves as if there's something about me that has caused this withdraw of love there's something inherently flawed in me that has caused this this this brokenness or this loss of love force unconsciously became convinced that they somehow caused it because for some reason that is more comforting to us to feel that we're in control and that we caused that loss of love then that the world is out of control and these things just happen to us because we live in a broken fallen world well this is almost never true in reality gives the four child a feeling that they could do something maybe to regain that so there's that sense in which if I believe there's something in me that inherently caused this loss of love whether this withdraw at least I feel like I'm in control to do something to change it and I would rather feel like I'm flawed but in control that I'm okay and not in control of whether or not love is given to me now that is profound stuff you might just want to stop and think and think and think and reflect on this because this is just to me it's just so helpful and so interesting in creating your identity and creating your what you build your personality in your identity around I could just sit and maybe think about this for a long time um an unredeemable deficiency in you is what is what the four ends up so to cope with this pain of loss fours adopt a strategy of focusing on and longing for that which was lost at the same time making themselves to be bad or deficient like there's something wrong with me there's something you know about me that has caused this and that helps you explain this loss of love and gives you a sense of control over it they dream of finding the ideal alized or special love that has been lost from them but they feel hopeless of ever really regaining that and are afraid here's the thing here's how it spirals if if I open myself up to be loved like this again I might get rejected again I would rather live with the pain and sorrow of being broken and deficient than to go through the pain again a feeling like rejected or that that love can be withdrawn from me and so forth kind of maybe self-sabotage a little bit because they might feel it's impossible to really open up and receive love from somebody because people are not necessarily going to love me like they might withdraw that love again from me and so there must be something wrong and deficient in me so but they can't help themselves from longing for it because we all long to be loved I mean it's inherent within us and God said in the Garden of Eden he said it's not good for man to be alone and it's not good for you to be alone so there's this longing within you for love but this fear that love might be taken away from me if I open myself up to it and so the coping strategy is to look at yourself as flawed or broken or different as a protective strategy against opening yourself up to love that could hurt you again this is so interesting force thus end up seeing themselves as not good enough to be loved as a way of defending against opening up to the possibility of love again you might want to pause that think about it because allowing themselves to hope for love leaves them vulnerable Wow to the worst kind of pain the re experience of that early loss and the confirmation of their worthlessness that goes with it that is just profound thought let me read that again force thus end up seeing themselves as not good enough to be loved as a way of defending against in other words I'm gonna focus on this negative thought to keep myself from focusing on this worse negative thought that is really profound defending themselves against opening up to the possibility of love because allowing themselves to hope for love leaves them vulnerable to the worst kind of pain a worser kind of pain so I'll accept a terrible form of pain to avoid a worser form of pain which is the re experience of that early loss and then confirm my fears that I really am worthless that's why that another person has rejected me because I'm worthless they dwell in painful feelings of hopelessness and melancholy to protect themselves Wow think about that you guys get beat up a lot as fours because man why don't you just get over it why don't you just look life is good focus on the positive quit feeling sorry for yourself you guys get beat up a lot because of your you're serious you know painful state that you're in but I don't know if you've ever thought about it might be a means of protecting yourself from the sadness and shame that comes from believing you are essentially unlovable and will never get the love or need that you want but this can become a defensive trap of course as you can imagine this can become a defensive trap you might say in a sense like you're seeking happiness you want to be happy you want to be loved and fulfilled and all that but you're seeking happiness through pain through your you know acceptance of pain hiding out and suffering it's called force distract themselves from the from the inner work they would need to do to open up to receiving what they really want what they incorrectly but defensively believe they can never have that is so powerful all right well let's get into the wings we're already twenty five minutes into this video we haven't talked about the wings yet ah okay let's talk about the weeks the four wing three the four wing three is called the the aristocrat okay and this is the person that you know has that sense of difference about themselves that sense of I'm different I'm unique I'm special I don't fit in but they blend that with the but I'm an achiever and I'm a winner and I and you these two are like so dichotomous to each other and yet they can be in one person that sense of creativity and that sense of you know what's different and I'm going to present that to the world and they're gonna love me for it so I'm gonna be an artist I'm gonna be a performer like a three I'm gonna be a performer but I'm going to be unlike other performers I'm going to be you know a super performer or a different kind of performer I'm gonna go out on the stage with one glove you know like Michael Jackson different and unique and I'm gonna do a moonwalk like nobody's ever seen before I'm gonna dance and be a superstar but I'm gonna dance in a way that nobody's ever seen before or like the artist formerly known as Prince you know he can't have a name like other performers he's got to have a symbol or a title that's different that makes him special and he's gonna be a superstar okay so four is what the three wing are very creative they desire success and recognition like threes but they want to balance it by being true to themselves and so they want to be out there on the stage as performers and they tend to be the more extroverted of the force the 4:3 is more extroverted than the four five but they want their style to be their own unique style they want you to love them for who they are not that they copied and paste this success formula but that they they're going to become a success by following their own authentic you know style they want to be special but be special in a pleasing way that you know gains approval and gains applause they're creative and ambitious and have an eye toward achieving goals and tend to be more sociable than the four winged five and they avoid anything that's off-putting and in bad taste and they create their work with the audience in mind where the four winged five is more into the process of creation the four winged three is much more into the presentation and wowing you and this is awesome and they're doing it for the audience you know to win over that audience and to be loved by that audience people are more they're more self conscious and aware of issues regarding their self-worth they want to come to cross across to others in a more positive way they're more concerned about coming across in a positive way they want recognition and they want to recognition not that they followed some formula of success but that they are being recognized for their unique work and their unique style and they put a lot of effort into their performance and their presentation they're more practical more extravagant they love refinement and culture and sophistication there's that aristocrat okay so I'm you got all these people that are successful let's imagine a bunch of threes are lined up on the stage and they're all doing essentially the same thing to be successful the four wants to be just like that the four three wants to be just like that but stand above them because they're doing it in their own style in their own way and in that way they are kind of an aristocrat because they're going to be successful but they're gonna be successful not like them not like those other people I didn't follow a formula to do this I was true to my authentic self so there they are typically see themselves as high-class as elegant as concerned with social acceptance and a little bit disdainful of of others okay so the four wing five move away from the michael jackson's you know the Madonna's and move toward the bob dylan's the bohemian the four wing five is called the bohemian or the Alanis Morissette's okay these these people are moving away from the being out on the stage and you're gonna love me for my performance and i'm different special and unique and look at what I can do on this stage and on this platform like a four three the four five moves more into that cerebral area of in their thinking okay they're going to be more heady more introverted more about having specialness through their thoughts and their deep thinking like a bohemian and you think of that term okay so these people are extremely creative but they're much more drawn to the process of creativity and they they're they're aristocracy might be seen more for their ideal standards like the four wing three might stand out in their dress and what they present to people the four wing five might stand out as different by like maybe like their views on the environment or their views on on on what they eat on being a vegetarian you know or being a vegan or you know that the fact that they only go to holistic medicine or holistic farming it's more going to be in their views and how they live their life then and how they present themselves okay so they're extremely creative combining emotionality and introspection with perceptiveness and originality less concerned with being accepted by others and with status than the four three they're there they enjoy creating for the process of creating and they love discovering nuances and discovering details and discovering things that others don't know that does set you apart because you now understand these nuances and these you know definitions in ways that people miss people are just living on the surface that's the way forcing people are just living on the surface very happy with their service lives their surface conversations their surface knowledge but I'm the four or five going to go to the deep things I'm going to go to the deep into the pool I'm going to get to the real you know the real heart of things and try to understand things in a much deeper nuanced way more introverted more socially withdrawn than the four wing three can live in their imaginations a little bit the real world is less interesting to them than the deep world the inner landscape they are attracted to the exotic they're attracted to the mysterious they're attracted to the symbolic and the eccentric this person could be called eccentric would be seen as being an eccentric person drawn to the unusual drawn to the downbeat draw you know if everybody's getting their senior pictures taken you know with nature scenes behind them and you know it with big beautiful landscapes behind them the four winged five is gonna want to get them taken you know in an alley you know with a graffiti on the walls behind them something that's downbeat you know a restaurant that nobody knows about that looks dingy and dark and yet they have the best food you know the most organic and healthy food and even though it looks rough on the outside fours are the force and for week fives particularly are drawn to that that's what appeals to them and then maybe it taps into that sense of that in yourself you know that that that sense of brokenness and dilapidated nosov yourself that lostness of yourself you know but still seeing the value in it and that's that's that's know that's so beautiful to see that yes we all are broken and dilapidated and in experiencing loss but yet there's there's richness in us there's beauty in us there's still that thumbprint of God that create in us I love it I love it force have helped me so much understanding force has helped me so much as a seven alright so they can be intensely private often seeing themselves as rebellious Outsiders for wing fives okay I think the four week threes are gonna parade that you know like I do things different look at me I wear these boots and I I you know and I'm this kind of a performer I'm this kind of an achiever because I've gone my own way I'm rogue you know but the four wing five I think is is more likely to live above the law and kind of ignore the law they have brilliant flashes of insight but they have trouble sustaining practical efforts in the real world again because they're not an action type fours are not an action type so taking it into action and it can just end up in your head you know and not not it can be hard to like live it out take it into action so for week 5s are more mental for wing fives want to get in touch and express their unique self they want to be different from the ordinary they pursue their own self-interests okay what's interesting to them they can get lost in fantasy they can be comfortable with the dark side of things they can be elitist eccentric defy convention push the edges more introverted not as interested in their image not as interested in being accepted by people or accepted by the crowd that's not as appealing to them as it is for the four wing three now I last thing I want to say in just a couple minutes is if you are a four wing let's say you're a four wing five okay moving toward the three can be a very positive move move for you learning more about threes learning more about why threes are what they are and why they do what they do and developing that three wing can be very helpful to you because a four wheel five can be a bit of an odd and odd an odd person okay an eccentric bohemian oddness is just kind of your address right so moving towards the three what does that do for you moving toward the three says you know maybe I need to be careful how I'm coming across to others maybe how I'm coming across is the image thing right maybe how I'm coming across to others is important not that you want to live at that three address because believe me you don't we all have our flaws but but leaning on that wing a little bit could be a benefit to you in living in the real world okay I know you want to get lost in your your deep thought and your eccentric unusualness but asking yourself from time to time you know what image am I am I am i presenting to others maybe I ought to be a little more careful with how I present myself and the words that I say and the way that I speak with people and the dress that I wear that it's not so eccentric and so different that it causes it causes there to be dissidents in relationships that I still want to be taken seriously and I still you know have to live in this world of all these vulgarians in and mundane and I have to live in this world and I have to make presentations and I have to sell products and I have to do business with people and so I maybe I need to be a little careful and thoughtful about how I'm presenting myself to others and that three wing will cause you to to move in that direction now for four wing threes you need to develop that five wing okay you need to learn more to lean on that five and if you know anything about fives right they're all into data and real factual information fives are not look looking internally at their emotions as a guide for them that fives are not interested in how you feel about a subject they want to know what the real objective data is okay so a four wing three should lean a little bit on the five now and say okay I know how I feel about my work I know how I feel about this relationship or I know how I feel and it's important because that's real information but maybe I also need some objective facts maybe I need some objective information maybe I need to go and look at some real data you know surveys and information maybe it would help me to not just look internally as my source of truth but maybe I should lean on objective facts and data as well maybe that could help me be more well-rounded if I if I didn't just ask how do I feel about this or what do I think or what will make me look good but what does the objective facts say you know and I can see where that could be applied to a lot of different situations in life let's say you want to you know you're thinking about being a good parent alright so you could tap into your own feelings and you know what you think about that but also it might help to just read some books and talk to other parents and get some objective information of you know some top-ten lists of what not to do and what to do and just take in objective information about how to be a better parent or how to be a better husband or or you know any any thing in life to lean on that 5 is to say I need to get some objective information and I need to balance my emotional life with my you know with some real facts and real head information alright Wow deep stuff and thank you guys for watching this video all the way through I appreciate you you know sticking with me through it and I hope it's helpful to you I hope it's encouraging to you I hope it you know causes you to think and reflect a little bit also that you can be more present to life and for you for as I guess I would end this by saying we all have lost something and it doesn't mean that we can't be open though to something great you know so we we open our hand and something has been taken from us but now we can live our life with an open hand ready to have that that hand filled and you know happiness and joy can come from sometimes the least expected places and don't be afraid to open your life up to receive some happiness and joy because even though something has been taken from us and we have lost something there's a lot that's been given to us as well so let's open our heart up to try to receive that alright thank you guys I'll see you next time

Channel: Dr. Tom LaHue

Views: 53,619

Rating: 4.9322033 out of 5

Keywords: enneagram, type 4, type four, enneagram type 4, wings, family, love, marriage, parenting, personalities, home

Id: H-ui8M2y5Io

Length: 40min 21sec (2421 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 28 2020