Is Being Fat A Choice? Fit Men vs Fat Men | Middle Ground

do you think just being in a fat body and being in the public space encourages obesity yes shame is what led me to an eating disorder what we're looking for is stability you're professional victim would you agree like looking at his physique like he's at a perfectly I would say maybe healthy no you think he's definitely overweight definitely obese my name is John I host the radical empathy podcast I used to direct episodes of middle ground but I'll now be moderating today's discussion between Jack men and fat men our first prompt is I have felt disgusted looking at a fat body can our agre please step forward whoever feels compelled to start us off well it's unacceptable to be fat okay that's a great start I mean I I I know why you say that but it's one of those things where do you know why you're saying that yes cuz I've been fat before and I lost the weight well me too I've been fat my whole life I've been way skinnier than I am now and I've been way heavier than I am now was I less valuable at one point in there well I mean you can make an argument that you're less valuable when you're fatter because you drain resources but that's a whole other conversation but yeah I mean in general being fat is unacceptable because you could control every single morsel of food that goes into your mouth okay um it shows a lack of discipline it shows a lack of character it shows a lack of temperance and uh when you're fat it just it's an outward manifestation of your inadequacies when I see somebody who's five or 600 lb all I can think of is why do they care so little about their health that they can do this allow themselves to gain that much weight knowing it's taken 20 30 40 years off their life I just can't imagine not wanting to live that badly I understand that no it's um I've definitely felt disgusted looking at my own body and looking at other fat bodies in my life a lot of the disgust I felt looking at people was me feeling disgusted with myself and then projecting that feeling onto other people and I don't think anyone on either side will disagree that health is important I know that my own mental health was way worse when I was spending every thix day of my life trying to get smaller and trying to be thinner I don't think there's anyone that can look at somebody 5 600 700 lb and not think wow what have they done and not be disgusted like how can you not I just can't understand you can't assume that everyone has the same opinion though because unfortunately some people have emotional stuff that happened um traumatic stuff that's happened so you can't discount and just say oh because they're fat woohoo man like there's way worse stuff going out in the worldus people saying oh my God I'm sad I'm going to eat some ice cream it's like no dude it's like you're fat you made that decision you live in the best country ever if you live in a civilized first world country where you have electric electricity internet power Etc you deserve to be bullied it's ridiculous to me that we have all these fat people running around meanwhile people are being bombed in Gaza it's ridiculous we are so privileged here in the United States and in the West in general when I see a fat person I'm like wow you got the gift of life you got the gift of being in a developed country and you're a fat POS talking about body positivity on Tik Tok what the hell is going on now you're segmenting though because not everyone thinks like that no we need to bring shaming back we we need to bring we need to bring shaming back in so many other regards besides obesity we need to do it with [ __ ] we need to sh do shame fat people we need to shame everybody when because Shame Shame has been one of the strongest defenses against degeneracy and human fups you had a personal experience you wanted to share you said you used to be overweight now you're not oh yeah so I did an experiment back in like 2015 where I like bulked for like almost two years and I got up to like 250 lbs and then I dieted down it took me about 7 months I systematically did it control my calories tracked my macros tracked my protein carbs fats and systematically Lo lost one to two pounds per week so you you chose to gain up to 250 you I've been all like I'm naturally skinny and then I was like I'm going to get fat as an experiment did it and then I was like all right now I'm going to lose the weight and then all I did was just track my calories like the same food every single day went to the gym four or five times a week and everything was controlled and it got done was it monotonous of course was it boring of I agree with you there I Am Naturally this way this is with working out four or five times a week that's not true this 100% true bro no bro no it's not natural at all because at the end of the day if you don't lose weight by definition you're not in a calorie deficit if you're not in a calorie deficit then you're going to either maintain or gain weight and that's the problem is that people don't track their calories and that's true but people burn at their resting metabolic rate a different set of calories doesn't matter um let's not get too granular right now Ry it's going to be one of those episodes right let's bring in the disagre and hear from them okay so the reason I disagreed especially when I heard the statement I I don't think I'll ever look at somebody based on their situation and think that I'm disgusted like if I see somebody that's a drug addict on the street that's homeless I'm not dis disgusted by that if I see somebody that's incredibly overweight I'm not disgusted by that do I think that there's an opportunity for growth do I think they've been put in a disadvantageous position that's probably makes it harder for them absolutely uh I think I'm kind of an empath so when I see somebody I know that there's things underlying and someone one of my best friends is 400 plus lounds I've helped him lose 150 200 lb he's gained it back and I don't look at him and say I'm disgusted but I know how bad he wants it and just seeing how hard he tries and then reverts it's almost more tough for me than to be like oh that's disgusting you know and I think there's plenty of people that look at me and say that's disgusting I never want to look like that so like I know what it feels like on the other side to like look the way I do and get people look at me like GH that's that's gross to like have that must muscle and then to go back to that point like you came from a fit place and like deciding to bulk like that's a conscientious decision to gain weight like you already have those habit routines and skills in order to stay in shape and then you use those same skills you had to pull back on the calories and knowledge you had the reason why I use that example is that you can get fat and lose the weight if you know what you're doing and you have the knowledge and everything else like that it's just about consistency over time so it's like I look at it like let me cut you off because here's one thing that you just said yeah you had the tools so there's people that don't have the tools you've passed judgment on and you have failed to realize that with the tools people are very much capable of achieving amazing things but okay let's talk about set no hold on I'm not done why you didn't you cut me off not done and I stood over there and I listened to you and I was like it's a ton of [ __ ] too but we're going to address this right you are passing judgment on people who lack the tools to do what it is that they need to do to get themselves to a certain point of Health there are multitudes of factors that weighs into what goes on with somebody's body there are people that even if they work out losing the weight does not come as simple as just going to the gym cutting calories watching everything that you eat there are some people that have a disposition I have a disposition but does that mean that I'm not active does that mean that I'm not doing certain things no it doesn't but you're passing judgment on somebody's body that you know nothing about now on the flip side what if I turned around and I did the same thing to you you're talking about how fit and stuff that you are but you're over there and you're smallest compared to these other guys so how does that feel if someone comes no cuz you said you said shame right you said shame right so how does that feel if someone comes up and they start shaming you for size like come on it goes both ways we're just in the first problem we got to be careful about targeting each other too directly you definit I'm I'm not offended it's fine he's emo goes in every direction he's obviously very triggered but yeah so let's talk about let's hit the first part tools what are the tools the tools are simply knowledge which you can get for free on the internet if you have the ability and the discipline to go out there and get the knowledge then you're going to lose weight it's just that simple it's just that people want to always make excuses for why oh my feelings oh I don't know what you don't know what people are going through blah blah blah no you can watch your calories you can go to the gym you have time to do it people just like to make excuses I don't think anyone's debating that weight loss is impossible here I think the question is why do you hate fat people that you feel the disgust towards it well like I said before it's a culmination of a bunch of bad decisions I'm not going to go ahead and give the same level of respect to someone who's a fat to someone that has worked really hard and diligently on their physique because your body's outward manifestations decision more factors to human being than their body well you could judge a lot just off of someone's physique You' be like okay well this guy is lazy and that's person IFI through their physique is the truth I thought you I saw you want to say I mean just to take it back to the prompt I think we just kind of went all over the place there we're still focusing on the word disgust just the word disgust I mean I would never look at someone and show disgust towards them I mean I think I would respect like you said I mean you don't respect everyone like you said but um I think respect is earned I mean it is earned but I mean I think at a Humane level we can learn to appreciate each other's differences yeah I I don't know if like disgust would be the right word right GRE mentions some health implications with being overweight obese I think being concerned might be a better that's the word I was I can show I can show concern for someone for the way that they are but I would never look at someone and say like you're disgusting but is it any different than if you see somebody who's extremely anorexic they're 50 pounds you look at them you're in shock oh my God like you something happens in your body you can't control you can't stop that like how can you not I don't hate them it's just wow oh my God it's like it's disgusting like holy goodness gra fact so you you just mentioned the polar opposite of what we are right but why would you look at them and be disgusted versus concerned that is a very specific word and it has very specific connotations behind it and when it's used it it it it's somewhat weaponized as well I don't think we can help how we feel I don't think I can choose like oh I just am not it would be sitting here and lying I'm not going to sit here and lie I'm always going to be honest with people I'm just disgusted this is just how I feel the thing is when you see a fat person the reason why it's disgusting and the reason why there's so much push back on this whole body positivity and people make fun of lizo rightfully so by the way is because it's unattractive it's unhealthy until we had this woke era they used to put like models and attractive people on the cover magazines that were in shape why so people can aspire to look like that and it's healthy and it looks better in general you look good feel good but when you're fat it says a lot about you people are going to sit there like let me see if he's a good person no they're just going to assume that you're lazy which you are by the way when you're fat and you don't have discipline which you are by the way so they're just going to assume off of what they see that's the world that we live in I love how you just you you stated a ton of assumptions you didn't State not one fact you just stated assumptions I want to uh move on to the next prompt but we're definitely I say one thing just one question like let's say you knew he used to be 600 lb and how much you weigh now I'm 384 and he's now he's 384 do you see him as less discussing knowing he's lost 220 lbs no that's fantastic there's still there's still work to be done but here's the thing like I said before unfortunately human beings judge a book by its cover just the world that we live in fat people people that you know identifies 97 genders whatever they expect us to change our worldview for them and that's just not how the world works like been that way it's always going to be world view that's I think I don't just the like people are going to yeah yeah it's different yeah my bad now let's reset jacked men are more attractive than fat men will the agre please step forward how come there's four guys over there all right we're so we're living in a bizarre world where people don't see the truth like how is it possible that they're thinking no being obese and unhealthy is more attractive than being fit and healthy how is this how is this possible you want actually you know what this is precisely why a majority of women find a majority of men as unattractive because a lot of guys think this way oh I'd just be a nice guy and girls are going to like me no they're not she's not going to suck your dick with the same verocity when you're a fat as when you're in shape she's just not see people don't understand that women are aroused by one thing and they're attracted by another thing women are attracted to you know a guy that's confident ambitious makes money Etc of course right but they're aroused by guys that have ass whole tencies dark Triad traits Etc and guys that are physically in shape so if you want to get the best of your woman where she respects and admires you while simultaneously being aroused by you so she doesn't cheat with on you you need to have it all you're saying that's true for all women a majority a staggering majority of women there might be one% of the world that have there's something wrong with them that might think that yeah year 600 lb it's so hot I love that yeah the hot girls girls that you actually want they exercise their hypergamy to the highest degree and they want guys that are fit and have their money together have their life together you're looking at me like you want to say something because the question was are Jack men more attracted we all walked over are We Are we more attracted to Jack men yeah I'm assuming they frame that because we're all guys here from to they mean women well men can be attracted to Swit teams I'm I'm going with the Jag guy obviously this is going to be like personal biases but I think attraction is very fluid in the sense that that well I can 100% admit like there was probably 40 lbs of muscle ago is when most women would be like attracted to me of course like Fitness girls they're totally okay with the size I am but like probably most girls I'm like too much for so I guess like where do we draw that line of like I think for example like you would be much more attractive to most women than me would you agree with that I mean that doesn't mean that like if you walked up to a girl and let's say you're not her like you're a little bit more muscular than she would like if you had the charm and Charisma she going to still go with you man it don't matter I I have an interesting point yeah and and no no date on you but I think if you had Zach right your on the end yep if you put Zach and Greg and you put them next to each other and you did a poll I think that most women would probably pick him if you had to like cuz he's got the height and all that what would you what would you guys say to that no well we can put it to the test not really fair I'm 48 years old he's a lot younger than me he's about a foot taller than me but you can't compare I'm an old man I'm 48 years old obviously height is a big component so that that you know it's not you're comparing apples oranges but if you take the same guy same height Etc but one guy is fat one guy's in good shape she's always going to go with the guy that's a better shape because I've been so surprised to see on Instagram there'll be like guys doing like an outfit try on like not in shape in the slightest bit and all the comments are women like I wish like men knew this is how we wish they looked and like oh this is like Med Liars one thing about you can never believe what women say man you you you you believe how they behave not what they say that's a different episode that's all right F yeah I disagreed mostly just with the blanket statement because attraction is so subjective I am a a big and tall model by trade that's what I do I model clothing brands I've modeled with major fashion houses I've been on the covers of magazines you mentioned before dadbod comments and whatnot on social media I was flabbergasted when I started how many people were commenting and dming me and talking about how attractive I was that it just kind of I don't know showed me that attraction is a lot more subjective than I thought and people have a much wider range of what they find attractive than specifically a body type is being jacked the most important trait for being attractive I I'd argue for guys it' probably be otherwise right I think height would be a very money money height Fame like yeah like what like what can you bring to the table the number one thing is status by far status people Al also go after what they think they can get so if this guy is 6' five and extremely attractive and it's like well I can't get that guy I I'm attracted to the 10 on 10 supermodel but I'm not going to get her so I'll be happy with the 9.9 on 10 just to be clear are we speaking about women being attracted to men it's not just about women it's just about attraction the what is the most attractive in your opinion physique for a man okay I'm speaking from like what women find attractive so when when when I speak that's what I'm talking about I'm sexually fluid so my Law of Attraction does not add adhere to anyone's standards pretty much I'm attracted to people in general so you could be checked you could be more plus siiz you could be skinny you could be whatever it is that you are if I'm attracted to you I'm attracted to you what are the traits you find most attractive I think the way that you carry yourself is a really big thing for me I can't date someone who lacks confidence because I feel like that seeps into other aspects of your life do you mind if I jump in on the confidence thing yeah Okay cool so growing up do confident in myself and I gained that confidence when I started losing weight and I noticed it was me putting myself in positions to get more opportunities with women right now I'm single right now but I'm I'm doing okay but the confidence came from me losing weight so I do agree that it's a subjective kind of standpoint but socially I I understand that physically fit men that's just like what everyone's like like I don't think it's as subjective as guys are trying to say attraction isn't a choice and there are hard IR traits that women look for in men and what I've come to realize is that what women put out there is what they find attractive or politically correct things oh he has a dad bot he's nice he's a good guy the reality is that women don't respond well and favorably to these men there's a reason why nice guys finished last is a thing it's because when you're too nice and you kind of bent to her will Etc girls aren't aroused by that girls don't want to say what they're really aroused by guys that are able to stand up to them guys that are able to tell them well that was a stupid comment or hold them accountable for their stupidity when they do dumb things this is what what women find attractive because these are leadership traits have any of those things happened to you though well I mean I IAL I've talked to almost 3,000 women and what I've come to realize from talking to all of them is that most of the time you know when they're in a comment section of Tik Tok like you're so handsome blah blah blah will they actually go on a date and have sex with that guy probably not but they say that because it's politically correct and women tend to not want to be adversarial they're going to say well sounds good but what they're actually Red by are two different things but they're married to those guys yeah that was kind of what I was getting to married married marriage is a failed institution in the west and this is why most men get uh divorced by women this is why they get destroyed in the divorce cours this is why women overwhelmingly initiate the divorce rates in America 80% are initiated by women because we sit here and we lie and we believe what women say that're they're actually attracted to no they're not attract let's go back to attraction for a second though because I'm married I have a child cool I have a beautiful wife I was this size the entire process through it would you say that you're an average guy I would say that I'm bigger than average Aver and a model for being slightly overweight I wasn't a model when I started you very good looking tall guy who's on magazine covers so out of the million guys overweight you're at to average guy I think what you're missing is he just said that he wasn't any of those things he's not 5 fo like being 5'6 and doing no I totally agreee with you I was well that's what I was going to actually agree with myin for a second uh Believe It or Not uh talking about you mentioned status and and then a lot of people other mentioned confidence you even put it in your own pecking order ahead of of being jacked or being physically attractive wouldn't you say that matters more confidence how you carry yourself how you do the problem was simply is it either you or I'm not the fact that our society definitely finds Jack guys more attractive but I disagreed with the statement because it was a blanket statement that I have found untrue in my own life do you all of you feel like you'd be more or less attractive let's say 50 lbs lighter than than you are and simply like just body fat I think so I think so yeah yeah something that I struggled with for a while is in me losing weight am I still going to be able to book the jobs that I book because I've built an entire brand off of my body mhm I mean granted like cool as [ __ ] like you know I did something that's all my own like I worked on that but then I was also just like if I lose this are you still going to want me to like do this campaign for you are you still going to want me in your magazine are you still going to want to dress me and then I had to like take a step back and say like well what is it for me do I want to be skinny no do I want to look like Greg no do I want to look like myin no but I know I want to look like me I think talking about the law of attraction you focus so heavy about what women would find attractive and the perspective of the woman and I feel like are you even attracted to yourself when you look in that mirror when you put your clothes on are you like damn like I did that because when I got up this morning and I threw on my outfit I was just like yeah I ate that well if you're going to talk about being attractive Etc typically people are speaking from a romantic sense from a heterosexual standpoint of men and women so that's why I answered the question because it it was very broad that's what I mean but of course you need to be able to look at the mirror and respect the man that you see looking back at you when you look back and you see the guy and you're in shape Etc and you and you feel good about yourself look good feel good a byproduct of that is that women just tend to find you more attractive it all works together in tandem are you happy with the way Tak it backen of course but I had to work I had to work to build this physique and it took many years I was an athlete in college division one athlete it took many years to be able to do this so what you play I'm able to I wrode in college crew oh I like Ro so I think when fat people look at the mirror and they say oh I like that that's coat man no you don't they say that to try to bring themselves up but the reality is most of the time when you're fat you look in the mirror you're like damn I really let myself go like you know what it's not that much of a priority so [ __ ] it uh Abe didn't get to answer to question yeah uh I was in the same boat as you just cuz I feel like I don't agree with the blanket statement personally for myself as a gay man uh I find myself attractive I would say like I go for guys like you as you as well um and I feel like I get a lot of hits on those types of guys and I'm like I'm pretty content with how I navigate my attraction and I think it goes a lot to the status and uh their confidence so like we said so all right let's let's go to the next prompt after 4 years the radical empathy podcast is now back there's a new episode out now go give it a listen the body positivity movement is problematic will the agreer step forward well I think where it becomes a problem is um obviously you should be comfortable in your body and if you genuinely love how you look great but you can't ignore your health being someone who is overweight I've been fortunate enough not to have any extreme lications other than like you know knee pain and stuff like that but I know people that you know that are my size are bigger and they have cholesterol problems heart problems uh diabetes I have none of that so the body positivity movement becomes a problem when you hide behind the shield of oh I should love my body great but you have to be healthy too you can't ignore your vitals you got to like check yourself on the inside yeah I think the big thing is you have to separate the health implication with you just being right like I'm all for people to feel confident in their own skin I think body positivity movement has been beneficial for plus-sized people in that regard right cuz let's say there's a plus-sized person who's too embarrassed to go to the gym because they're they feel like they're going to be judged whatever it is but it's because of body positivity they're like oh hey like I see other plus-sized people in the gym maybe I'm going to give it a try and all a sudden they start going they're oh man I like this right and they keep it going you can argue that without body positivity maybe that day would have never happened for that person right um but I think the problematic part really comes down to people extrapolating body body positivity shaming a celebrity like let's say Adele for losing weight right um that's where I would kind of draw the line there well promoting lizo making fun of Adele for losing weight but promoting lizo for being a fat it's unacceptable do we feel are a lot of people doing that I think the thing around lizo is it's not just the weight it's the lifestyle you like see her drinking all the time and partying and not sleeping there's like so little to do with health it's it's not just she's promoting like loving yourself which I think is great she's promoting a lifestyle that is unhealthy like being very overweight drinking not sleeping all of these things are not conducive to your health so I think you can flate that and sure being body positive is important like loving yourself loving the way you look but if that's going to lead that's going to influence other people to make bad decisions about their body and their health that's problematic body positivity is disempowering people it's making them think that they're healthy at any size which they're not and so as soon as you start telling people hey just love your body like lizo will literally rub her belly and said you're giving me all this power as she's eating a burger and she's promoting being obese by doing this you're just ruining it for people who actually should think wait a minute I can lose weight I can go to the gym I can eat less I can do this personally my problem with body positivity isn't necessarily what it stands for and I feel like there's a misconception because there are those people that they use it to justify fatness and just I I don't I don't even want to say fatness I ju I want to make it very clear unhealthiness because there's someone like me who I wouldn't say I'm necessarily part of the body positive Community anymore personally I would say I Champion body diversity because it's all encompassing it's inclusive of what everybody you know is doing within their Journey when I Express the desire to lose weight um another plus-size individual that I used to be friends with was just like well I don't feel like I can share your content because I'm not sure how my followers are going to perceive this I think it might be triggering for them and stuff like that and my response to it was well if you're championing body positivity then what I'm doing should not be a problem because the entire time that I've been advocating for people that look like me or people who have been othered in any capacity in general is that all bodies are good bodies what we do with our body is what matters and so body diversity is important to me because for a guy like you or a guy like the two of you might suffer from body dysmorphia and that's a very real thing you might not see yourself for what you really are and so you're seeking unhealthy habits to achieve a goal to get where you want to go like you you just got to give it time be healthy in it in all aspects like mentally physically you've got to find the right Avenue to do what it is that you need to do for yourself the body positivity movement is a huge s up to keep us fatter and stupider it's it's all a scam uh the reality is that big Pharma wants money and they understand that when you're fat you have more health problems they understand that you're going to need insulin you're going to need medication Etc and they make a bunch of money on us being sick there is no incentive to actually have you be healthy so let's go ahead and make our people fat as hell get them in the hospitals get them on medication continue to make money Etc it's all a big scup so you believe it's all intentional yes we we we promote mediocrity I feel like it's a subset yes I I'm sitting here because I do think that there is a part of it that is problematic but I think that that the problematic part of it is a subset of people that use it as a tool to weaponize whatever it is that that they're doing I think the whole movement is a problem the body postivity movement in general is a problem all of it so you shouldn't feel positive even about your own like for for you for instance right you earned you know here's the thing being happy and content with yourself it's not given it's earned you have to go out there work and then you're going to feel that satisfaction like I earned that that feels good so at what point do you earn it though when you can look back in the mirror and actually genuinely not coping respect the man that you see before you and the reality is people are going to realize that you're going to need to achieve a certain physique for because you have all these F people I love my body no you don't it's a lie dude you're just coping you're you're lying to yourself and now all these people on Instagram and Tik Tok with the body positivity movement are lying to themselves they're not happy where they want to be they just accept that because they're too Laz to make a change no but I genuinely do love my body right now as you are yeah then why are you going to and I'll explain to you then why are you going to I will explain it to you I love everything that my body is capable of doing I love the fact that at my size I can do a lot of things that other people smaller than me still cannot do but you want to lose weight though and yeah yeah right which is good I want to lose weight because I love my body but I have one body why would I not love it yeah and because I love my body to make changes right but to say that loving your body is BS no you make changes you make healthy changes to yourself because you love yourself all of that time that I'm putting in the work the money that I'm spending that's a labor of love because I love myself enough to know that I want to make some ch es to live a better lifestyle in the sense of I can just do a little bit more all right let's bring in our disagre so there's not a single problem oh no I'm not saying there's not a single problem to me body positivity is more about bodily autonomy like you were mentioning wanting to lose weight the whole my whole thing is like yeah it's your body do whatever you want with it I don't think I as a human being have a right to tell any of you what to do with your bodies body positivity kind of comes in and go okay you as a human being have inherent value just in the fact that you are a conscious soul on this planet you have an inherent value you are within a vessel of your body that you do have control over but at the same time you're not less valuable to society or from a the the standpoint of the soul for what your body looks like when I'm speaking about body positivity I'm talking about the over acceptance and encouragement of being obese so I personally again I'm not super online have not seen anybody Pro obesity ever oh there's a bunch dude she's loves herself avoc there's a big difference actively promoting obesity she's not telling anyone to get fat she's showing you exactly how to do it and saying look at my body as I love and rubbing it's giving me life and and she's like joking around Andy and see here's the thing there's a bunch of fat influencers that push his body positivity situation and a bunch of them are dead now no one talks about that that didn't hit mainstream news so I'm in that space which influencers are you talking about cuz I'm I don't recall their names but there's a there's a couple of them that pass away they're YouTubers they used to do these mukbangs where they' eat a bunch of food onang totally different they're not a part of our community that's a completely different thing we're not saying we're going to like you know go to a restaurant and pig out just because it's entertaining or anything like that there are people that they're called gainers that they're whole like lifestyle their fetish and things like that revolves around gaining weight yeah and I understand that you're saying that that's not a component to the body POS movement but you got to understand for the general masses they're watching that they're going to attribute it to that they're they're not in the niche they're not a Creator so they're not looking at it like no this person is just a glutenous person no they look at everyone who's obese that's making content about being obese and continuing that lifestyle as a part of the body POS they're not making content about being obese they're making content about overeating yes and they also eating disorder yeah and they also encourage being fat as well do you think just being in a fat body and being in the public space encourages obesity just flat out yes so just us existing we're saying yay everyone go gain weight it absolutely impacts other people to think well think of it you're 6 with good looking modeling going to encourage other people to well hey look at him he's he's got so then what about when I the gy what when I step into the gym or when Zach steps into the gym or when any of us step into the gym are we promoting being bigger like that too are we going there and is our presence there unwanted by being famous Rich popular and being obese you're indirectly promoting it in the same way that people who take steroids and are 350 pounds of muscle winning the Mr Olympia are indirectly promoting it even if they don't say they're taking it but I'm I'm speaking more specifically in the gym in that space where people should be coming together to work on their bodies and stuff like that if you saw us in the gym I would be happy and proud and excited and my whole channel is about helping people who are overweight to lose weight and have realistic expectations I would never say you have to look like this you need ABS it's just let's go halfway there that's my entire channel of which I have over two million followers it's all about realistic goals helping people over eight to lose weight that is what my channel is all about but we're in public and you made the statement that if we step out in public that it would encourage people to live an unhealthy Lifestyle the more friends you have are overweight the more likely you're going to be overweight it just happens to happen I'm just telling you the truth is I'm not going to pretend it doesn't if 90% of the world were overweight more people would be encouraged to be overweight as just on this side I don't think any of us have ever looked at a person heavier than ourselves and gone I want to be that that's a great thing to be no we have the same internalized um biases as everybody else does he was bringing up the gym before and you said by existing just in a fat body we are promoting it yes I model and when I do model fitness wear which I do often I get so many comments about like oh you are promoting obesity I'm wearing fitness wear I'm in the gym I'm doing the thing you want me to do and I'm still promoting obesity if you're exercising and you're trying to lose weight then you're promoting people who are overweight to try to lose weight that's great but if you're lizo and rubbing your belly I'm promoting I mean I don't know [ __ ] about lizo obsessed with lizo influencers that promote gluttonous um lethargic Lifestyles which a bunch of them do that's what we're talking about if you're in the gym and you're fat and you're and you're getting after and you're documented that that's fantastic the part was body positivity and you're talking about influencers who promote gluttonous Lifestyles and that again is not body positivity the general mes don't have that distinction though I do think we have a good read though on how each individual sees the body posit positivity movement all right the next prompt is I am satisfied with my sex life agers step forward I have abused my body will the agreer step forward I'll start by saying I've abused my body many times being a bodybuilder professional bodybuilder I've abused steroids did that for over 10 years I don't think you can get to the the level that you have to get to be at to be a professional bodybuilder while being natural and so absolutely and I I would say that somebody trying to abuse steroids to get that muscle to get that look is just as unhealthy as somebody who's obese so I don't try to be a hypocrite I say I've done these poor choices I'm 48 now I don't do steroids anymore and so I recognize that what I did in the past was bad probably took years off my life and so I would say to people who are overweight why don't you do the same thing and if you're not then do you really care about your health because if you do you would stop doing the things that are leading to being morbidly obese but then but then to your own argument you spent 10 years doing something you knew knew was inherently unhealthy correct but then you're going to turn around and tell people that they should just wake up but took exct you like people should have told me Greg why why do you keep doing this to yourself you do not recognize what's going to happen and if we call it shaming shame why are you abusing steroids Greg think of it think of the years you're taking off your life maybe I would have wait but the power was in your own Awakening right the power right there was in your own a Awakening to realize within yourself that you were doing something negative and then you made the change for it right and that change is now consistent that change is now something that you can give a testimony about and help other people change their ways or persuade people to just not do it at all right building on what you said what was the moment you know where you the perspective shifted well I got old enough and realized I can't get any better at this I can keep taking more and more drugs and try to sustain this but I said I it's not worth it anymore so I had to completely change my mind around what I was doing which was being judged on my appearance and remember I make money on how I look and so that's going to have a huge impact on me and I had to say I need to get my dopamine my self worth from something else so I I quit doing all the bodybuilding competitions and I said I'm going to start riding bikes I'm going to learn Spanish I'm going to do something else where I can feel good about myself and it's hard like look at this guy 300 lbs of muscle 20 years from now is he going to want to still be this size he might look back and say I maybe regret certain things I think that somebody's overweight they're going to think the same things like if you're four five 600 lbs you're going to think is is it worth doing this is it worth eating all the time it's tough I think this is the first like actual Middle Ground I think we're finding which is really great because it's true I mean I've done I've I've been harmful to myself on both sides of the spectrum there were times I was taking you know 20 to 30 diet pills and laxatives a day eating less than 400 calories a day working out Non-Stop and then there's the other times where I was eating way too much smoking way too much drinking way too much and abusing my body in the other way I think we all come to the realization of what we're doing is harmful in different ways at different times like it took you 10 years to come to realize that was harmful my thing is sometimes it takes people who might be overweight or you know at that high tier that 5 600 lbs to realize that it's harmful for them and maybe in their life they don't feel like it's harmful and they are happy there are people believe it or not legitimately happy in certain Bliss like I mean I was happy at the moment I is bliss inance is bliss but you could die before you wake up you could die that happen steroids exactly I could have died doing what I did and so is it not my responsibility to tell people don't copy me and so it to not be somebody who's I think there's the I don't think there's anything wrong with that even when you said before you're like well I wish I wish someone had shamed me saying what are you going to do you're going to kill yourself that's not shaming to me to me that is compassionate and looking out for somebody it's when you take it to the other level where you start insulting them degrading them making them feel like [ __ ] as men we we we insult each other and shame each other but it's as a friend like this is what guys do girls don't do it they all suck up to each other you're all tens guys are like look at your gut look at your belly say what girls do no it's important to the masculine from the feminine because it's guys talking here and I think it's important to distinguish when something is feminine to say well we don't adhere to that over yeah but there's been no shortage of generalizations on women in this episode so far and I'm really really curious about your answer to this prompt regarding like self-abuse like bodily abuse yeah I mean I'm a lifetime natural never taken a drug before in my life however um I was an athlete in college and obviously when you're a division athlete you're training two to three times a day it was very very intensive um I would train through injuries which wasn't intelligent but at the end of the day I looked at like hey we got a win we got you know some teams to beat this season so it built a mental fortitude I think abuse is good to a degree if you're able to overcome it and learn something from it I did a lot of stupid things like I uh I broke the world record in the bench press and now I can't bench press anymore and it was my favorite lift I've had h operations I have both elbows reconstructed I trained too hard I couldn't stop myself all that pressure desire whether it was installed by myself or from others to try to fit in to be socially accepted and I was addicted I was bench pressing with shoulder pain I should have stopped I couldn't and so you know I set the record and and it's done I can't even lift anymore I don't squat bench or deadlift because look at Ronnie Coleman you guys know Ronnie Coleman he's in a wheelchair he can hardly walk he's in pain medications and imagine putting your body through all that torture and then you get near 60 now you can't do do anything so one question I have for you then is knowing what you did obviously has allowed you to create this platform to speak to these things to talk about steroid abuse you understand all their Tres do you think that you would have been able to do that let's say if you'd kept your natural status throughout your whole career you didn't break World Records you weren't an ifbb Pro you didn't have all of those accolades to stand on do you think you would still be Greg duet and have all the following you do I do not think so I think I'm one of those one a million cases that was able to do what I do and actually got the success that I got but if I look back and I'm really honest with myself I regret doing these things I was natural world champion and I was breaking World Records natural so I had the records but I wanted more I wanted more Glory I wanted more people to say you're cool we like you and so I ended up taking steroids I did that because I wanted to fit in I wanted to be sponsored I wanted a pro card I wanted to be famous and it worked at what cost so how healthy am I really everything it is that you're saying right I don't feel feel any ounce of like shaming you for it I think everything that you said is really important to acknowledge that and to know that and to then share that right but the difference is is that like had someone shamed you I don't think that you'd feel the same way about it instead people poured life into you and told you like hey I don't think that this is right I don't think that you should really keep doing this cuz it's doing more the opposite happened I was rewarded when I started getting pop social media I was talking about my steroid cycles I was talking about what I've done and they're like look at your muscles look at your chest and it was like do you know how hard it was to stop because I was being rewarded with dopamine with uh people saying nice things about me all the time and for me to stop I know that my views on social media go down if I went on a steroid cycle right now people are going to fall wow coach Greg you're back we missed the Old Coach Greg and so it's hard for me to be the 48-year-old old men that still preaching Fitness when they say we love the old Old Coach Greg the jacked muscle freak and I have to fight the urges not to use steroids every single day cuz I know I would look better I know I would feel better but I'm like it's not healthy and so I have to say no I get what you mean about the dopamine reward thing cuz for me I'm I I have a similar situation but kind of in the opposite way every time I start slimming down I start getting the what are you doing why are you losing weight because I am in that large guy space so it's like it's it's very funny how much on both sides outward opinions just like really really just make what we do hard I know that when I am doing more cardio and what like I'm a big hiker and biker and sometimes in the summer I'll slim down but then all of a sudden I'll get a ton of comments from people just being like we liked you heavier we like you this I'll have clients that'll stop using me because I've gotten too small and so it's you're kind of seeking that dopamine that approval also that career boost you get stuck in this Loop of doing things that you know aren't good for yourself I wanted to hear from you just going back back to the prompt why you came forward oh I mean I think obviously professional bodybuilding has its risks obviously I try to mitigate them as much as possible I work with a company that I'm doing blood work through uh you know quarterly every three months I am very very methodical with what I do and I'm very very on the mild side you would be surprised but I've been trading for 20 plus years I think that's the key for me I would say like being of the size 100% not healthy is it unfortunate that I am very passion about something that is bodybuilding yeah it's it's kind of like I felt I fell into it I love it it's hard for me but I made a decision with my wife that at age 35 that's it I'm done like no more competitive bodybuilding I have an understanding but like Greg I have the foresight to know like there has to be a limit to it cuz if you just let it go I would have to be probably 25 more pounds of muscle and like have to do things that I would I'm not willing to do in order to be like let's say Mr Olympia right so cuz right all the way through my 20s I was closer like 230 lb natural all the way until I was like 27 and2 so uh hopefully I'll be okay going back to that size do you use steroids currently um I mean I use uh I think that's the biggest insult in the world right now no no no I I I only ask because again we're on the topic of body abuse right so I'm only asking that in that realm because of what you said about it I'm not asking that it's kind of like it's just when you're jacked like that and you say do you steroids is like you think you can look like this natural like if I said hey are you on steroids look at that body like if I said you look like you're on stero people think you're on it's a compliment if I said obviously you're natural be like what the what do you mean obviously there's no obvious yes I'm enhanced okay all it's it's literally just like a question that I have but it's also just like well what do you do as you're progressing in that to get to the points that you want so that that's where that question stems from and I also really appreciate your candor for that yeah I mean I think it's I I I will 100% say like some of the best shape of my life was natural in my 20s like very lean probably my healthiest like if anybody tells you they're like an ifbb professional bodybuilder it's almost 99% of them are in some capacity enhanc it might be very minimally it might be through the roof like you wouldn't even believe what they're taking but it's it's there it's part of the sport it's unfortunate but like that's the problem that's one of the problems we talked about earlier with the fitness industry is like that's that expectation let's bring our disagree hey boy good job not abusing yourself yeah so I took abuse as like NE doing things that's negative for your health and for me I've always approached Fitness from a health kind of lens right um like myin I'm 100% natural I'm never going to look like Eric I'm never going to look like Greg but it's something I'm content with right um for me I'm kind of in for a long term I want to be able to do what I do when I'm 60 70 80 100 focusing more on the health aspect of it um can be a good middle ground cuz I feel like if if you're looking from the outside in sometimes can be like like dude how am I going to look like Eric like how's this ever going to happen right um but you know people have different goals I would say within Fitness and um yeah I think it's important to also acknowledge that like there's abuse on both spectrums right like you can be a fat ass on one end and say I'm going to just continue to eat cheeseburgers and put on Tik Tok and then there's the other side where you can you know use performance-enhancing drugs and say I'm going to step on stage but I would make the argument that the person that is training using Peds Etc I'd respect that individual more than the fat ass and the reason why is because though it isn't healthy to be on performance-enhancing drugs you're still pushing your body to a level that most can't versus by just being fat that doesn't take any skill or dedication so fat person is doing something like maybe they're into quantum physics maybe they're changing the way we view the world entirely are they not valuable because they're not shredded well again we're talking about the purpose of uh you know abusing abusing your body I'd have more respect for the bodybuilder is my point and I think society would enlarge as well which is why body that you know like Aon Coleman Etc though he is disabled now Etc he's a legend and he's going to go down in history yeah but I I actually thought that was a good question you know like what a great film director who's like very overweight and like just totally poured into their craft you know like is there respect for someone like that well that that's great because he's able to do something exceptional right and he's able to diversify himself from the general masses right but will people know that when they meet him that he's a famous director unless he's very prominent but yeah there's exceptional people that are fat in certain regards but we're talking about body abuse here I would I'm just saying in general I would have far more respect for the professional bodybuilder that's Peter multiple winning films Lord of the Ring exceptional happening but some guy like taking peeds is better than two different things sorry sorry I'm legitimately curious yeah you have guy using peeds on one side trying to do stuff and then you do have like Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings multi explicit to say I'm talking about the fat influencers so like I'm I'm talking in that context like if if you're going to have abuse of your body on two different ends right one extreme is a bodybuilder the other is a fat influencer I would have I think me and most of society would have far more respect for the respect the hardworking billionaire I understand that but I also think that like if someone's abusing themselves in any way there should be some empathy and like rather than just being like you're a better abuser to yourself than that person Fitness culture can be toxic agree or step forward here we all are again hey let's hear from the Jack guys 100% I think it's there's there can you can perpetuate so many themes that are so unhealthy like there's so many images online of people that posting like the best lighting with a pump that is the societal Norm of like what's good and even like affects me cuz I'll see people and I'm like oh I look like garbage compared to that I think that right now it's like there's a lot of of you know misinformation online when it comes to like how to get fit how to stay in shape and a lot of people are monetizing it these like crazy fat diets like you can't eat certain things carbs are bad you know fruit has sugar in it so it's going to make you fat so like now Food is Almost being weaponized and then to be monetized so that you buy their ebook to tell you the exact secret you know code in order to lose weight so Fitness is an industry right so people are incentivized to say whatever that is to make money and so it's been harder for me as a coach that takes a more holistic approach to Wellness and fitness and saying hey it's all about balance and like Greg's the same way I know I felt like you know I watch a lot of his videos that is the correct approach to like making a plan that's not super restrictive so I think I I think that's why you know the fitness industry even being part of it like is frustrating because there's so much misinformation I would say also that there's so much pressure to look like us and it's causing people to develop body dysmorphia and so this is a huge problem so when you swipe on Instagram you're show being shown the top 1% of the top 1% they all have a six-pack abdominals everyone feels inferior there's pressure then that caus a whole host of problems eating disorders people feeling like [ __ ] they don't like the way they look in the mirror and then they keep looking for information and then what information are getting half of it's wrong like you were just describing and so where do we go from there there's there's no solution I think the issue comes from the misinformation just the lack of keeping things simple but uh you know we like to have fat diets oh go paleo go vegan go whatever it may be and it's like the reality is the best diet is the one that you can adhere to and I think we need to let people understand that finish is a lot more sustainable and easier than people think it is which is why I make fun of fat people so much because it really is simple and it comes down to numbers and tracking your calories and being disciplined and going to the gym this is why I have no sympathy for fat people because it really is simple but that right there is what keeps guys like us out of getting into fitness shouldn't do the opposite though no no one wants be told they're a piece if I was being made fun of all the time for being short i' wear SHO lifs let me explain this like shaming rarely works and and and I'll bring this back to somebody I follow and I I appreciate their content guy named Alex Heros and he does a value equation and on the top side of that equation you have the perceived value of whatever you're trying to achieve plus the perceived chance of success so How likely are you to you know achieve set result and on the bottom side of equation you divide by time and you divide by effort shaming doesn't work because the value equation is driven by those things so what I think we need to do on this side of the table is to make those things more accessible like you said providing more value-driven information of like how to achieve a calorie deficit in a more sustainable way how do you make it so it's not so much time because so many people waste time let's say doing so much excess cardio where strength training should be the main component so like that's why I think you know adding value and decreasing time and decreasing the amount of effort is going to give you guys so much more emphasis or ability to achieve the result and more motivation to achieve said result than being like Oh you're fat what the [ __ ] you know what I mean so that's just my the fitness industry over complicates it so that they can monetize it so if they tell you I got the secret sauce well this is this is why it's important to acquire knowledge and be able to you know whether you go ahead and do your own research and again it comes back to doing the work and people get so mad like oh what is this hard do your research look at the studies there's so much Fitness studies out there there's no secrets it's just discipline and sustainability have you guys ever been confused about how to get and stay in shape based on the information that's out there totally I would never ever take advice from you to get that advice or to gain that knowledge because of whatever this disposition it is that you have going on right what's the disposition can you describe it I think I just keep it real I don't I would I wouldn't even enable it toxic but I think it's like you have this perspective about the world around you that I think is kind of really War and I don't understand why and I would like to understand why and I'm I'm not getting it because you're like shame is the answer and stuff like that but it's not work for centuries it's not though it's it's why you have so much conflict it's why we're literally sitting here today having this discussion so here's the thing you operate what's ideal I operate on what's real and the reality is is that the world there's a much colder and harder place than you think it is but you want to you know people to just understand you and see your perspective and see you as how you see yourself the reality is the world's never going to see you how you see yourself they're going to see you on how you display yourself to them and when you are fat out of shape Etc the people and if they don't get to know you and talk to you and have a conversation with you they're going to assume certain things that's just the world that we live in just to dig a little deeper into that has something happened to you to confirm that observation that you have no I mean I just live in objective reality and objective reality isn't as nice as you think it is so you're not drawing from a personal experience no I'm speaking fairly objectively that this is how these are the conversations that people have behind closed doors but they don't want to say out loud because for fear of cancellation for fear of coming off as an [ __ ] Etc I'm just saying how people really feel but they're scared to say it coming from whether the uh Fitness space can be toxic or not um the shame attitude has kept a lot of people out of it I've been doing fad diets since I was 12 years old I was put on Weight Watchers I did Atkins I did paleo I did all everything you could possibly imagine and never not until I started following other influencers that were more proactive based on I want to be around for my daughter for as long as I possibly can be I want to give my body the function it needs like just that basic mind shift hey life can get a lot better if you do kind of focus on your health a little more instead of you're a fat piece of [ __ ] you need to change to me I don't again I don't know everyone in the fitness industry but I know for me personally it totally changed my uh relationship with Fitness when I started realizing that it was a gross benefit instead of a punishment I had to put on to myself for not being disciplined enough for people like you to maybe respect me who again we don't know each other in reality so why am I destroying my life so you will respect me one day well going to the gym and training isn't going to destroy your life all enhance it of anything but I'm saying en but yeah I do that I'm saying it wasn't until someone told me about those enhancements and kind of approached it with more of an empathetic way of being that it seemed attractive to me at all to be a part of it does anyone here respond positively to shame no I I think in some ways I feel like a lot of us can relate to this like when we were younger if um I wouldn't say it was shame but um I I wasn't necessarily like happy with the way I look and that kind of motivated me to get into Fitness in the first place right and we're talking this was like in high school so I think to some degree um shame that's not put on by others could be helpful right has to be something um within yourself that can motivate you I'll speak on the same thing too because the shame that I like I guess EMB body came from myself so when I was on my weight loss journey and I was like losing weight the day that I weigh in and like the scale read one pound over like I would take uh those pills that make you [ __ ] literally to like lose that extra pound to see like so going back to the toxic situation that's where I got [ __ ] up because I would do things in response to me not getting that positive stimulus to hurt myself ultimately do I have therapy now yeah because it's like it's a double-edged sword for sure I think shame is good I think it uh it's it's a very natural response inadequacy and it tells people that hey maybe I need to change like being bullied as a man being shamed it's a good thing because it stimulates you to change and make a better difference most of but some people don't respond like some people when they get shamed they get shut down and now they proceed further into that negative you know Behavior because it's not something as Zach and everybody else was mentioning that's was positive to bridge thaty that's a part of the masculine Journey is overcoming adversity and not being a [ __ ] and being like okay I'm going to prove you wrong and this is the thing it makes or breaks you not everyone's going to win we need winners and we need losers the losers are the ones that shut down like oh I'm sad now I'm going to continue eating ice cream okay you're a [ __ ] loser stay over there but there's guys that rise up to the challenge and say you know what I'm going to do better I'm going to [ __ ] surpass you and that's where guys need to be you need that Killer Instinct where you use that is fuel it's up to you how you want to do isn't the goal of the fitness industry to get people more fit of course blanket goal of course and we're saying shame and calling me a piece of [ __ ] doesn't motivate me to get more fit well we need winners and losers no we winners and losers there's going to be inevitably there's going to be losers if you don't respond favorably to shame and bullying Etc and you don't overcome it you're effectively a loser let's be clear though you just said the right word Fitness industry it is a it is a industry and is to make money it's not necessarily to get people in shape it's to make money so sure there's going to be Junctions along the way like I'm a coach there has to be tough like if you're not doing the things you're supposed to be doing I have to be a little bit harder on you but that's not going to start your journey me being like you're a fat piece of [ __ ] whereas like if we get into it and we're just three months in and you're not making progress because there's a lot of things you're not doing that were coaching you on then of course there's going to be some tough love there's going to be some extra accountability but I think there's a difference between accountability and tough love than just like shaming somebody into doing something because that's not going to create that like long-term ability to to obviously achieve it on their own but myin would prefer you would prefer sh shaming is shaming is a component to get people to be accountable we all just want to know when shame motivated you to be better me personally I mean I'm speaking in general here as far as like speak for yourself personally when did shame change your life oh well here here's the thing I think every man growing up has been shamed to some degree where they're like you know what I need to improve this whether they grew up skinny you you you you you you though right well yeah I mean I was skinny right and then I got on and I was like okay I'm either going to let this Define me or I'm going to overcome and I was like all right I'm going to go to the gym and start training but does it work in any other interpersonal relationship like have your parents ever shamed you come down on you made you feel like [ __ ] absolutely did you deserve all of it 100% AB absolutely they Shame Shame me and I think that's fantastic and I think that need that's a part of your parents job is to shame you for your your fuckups what about people in abusive relationships or with abusive parents who are now in no contact situations or anything like that not me I love my folks they're great but like just for the TV record in case they watch it like but I'm but I know a lot of people who are no cont there's always a line so that that's all I'm saying is in the indust in in the fitness world I would rather be with someone who's trying to uplift me trying to get me to improve hold me accountable tough love absolutely I think is important yeah there's a total difference between tough love and shame absolutely shame is a component of tough love shame is only done with the intent to hurt somebody not to uplift them we got to reset better reset that's fine I would not like to be on the other side if that's true for you come forward I'm very medium on this when I was in high school they do your graduation photos and they had a saying and my saying was my worst nightmare would be if I gained 10 pounds of fat literally grade 12 I remember at clear's day I was already a competitive bodybuilder and so to imagine being 100 or 200 lb overweight when I strive my whole life to look kind of like this I just couldn't imagine it it would be a nightmare for me I agree from like a health perspective like being overweight and or obese like puts you at a higher risk of developing chronic illnesses and I think I wouldn't want to be in that position and if I was in that position I would do what I can in order to get to a healthier way okay um so I I just want to make sure everyone gets to say their piece before I go I mean yeah it's completely unacceptable be fat as a man man um it's completely unacceptable it's just so many problems with it I've been fat I've been skinny and I've been in shape and I will pick being in shape every single time just like if you have someone that's rich versus someone that's poor they will pick being rich every single time and the thing is is that most fat people not all but most have never even seen their abs they've never seen what their body is capable of they've never been actually happy with their physique and once you get that taste you're never going to want to go back and then on top of that you're going to want to go ahead and tell all those fat asses that you were once friends with you need to get in shape this is awesome but the reality is we live in a crazy world where we coddle fat people we coddle idiots we coddle morons and we don't hold anybody accountable and we allow mediocrity to to to strive in the west and I think uh we need to go back to shaming fat people we need to go back to making fun of them I mean if I was President hell I'd put all of them in a fat concentration camp so they can concentrate on dieting and exercising because being fat is completely not acceptable I'd have these people uh back in shape because what people don't also understand is that fat people bring a big burden on the healthare system um obesity diabetes heart disease Etc it's a big problem do you really mean that or are you just saying that I'm yeah if I was president make me president I would get rid of the abos problem like that I find it interesting that they can lock us up in their homes for almost two years saying wear a mask Etc but then I say I'm going to lock these dudes up in a concentration camp where we're going to get them healthy food we're going to get them exercising and I'm looked at as crazy yeah I hear what you're saying I guess there's just there's a distinction between having opinions about how covid was handled and genuinely believing that all fat people should be in a concent ation Camp yes a concentration camp let me be clear I'm talking about a concentration camp where they're concentrating on diet and exercise so I wouldn't necessarily want to go from one extreme to another um I also would not want to be um spewing out stuff just to hopefully get a viral clip so if you could snap your fingers and look like any of us would you not do it like would it not be probably choose to look like Tyler I want to go to a place where it's comfortable and it's healthy all around I'm not doing things that could negatively impact me in a way to get to a place like that like I've gone through that I've gone through having Eating Disorders from chewing gum and drinking water and starving myself in different ways to achieve something like when I was dancing my dance teacher blatantly told me if you don't lose a certain amount of weight I'm kicking you out of the Showcase so what did I do I resorted to everything that I could possibly do to cut pounds like crazy and it wasn't sustainable it really screwed with me mentally but I was doing it and of course like in the moment it sort of felt good but then I fainted in class one time and that really really sucked so I feel like he would switch sides if it meant doing it naturally like he's obviously natural he's natural what I'm obious I would switch sides if it meant that I could do it in a healthy way and I mean obviously like I expressed it I'm working on that and I'm not saying that what you did was wrong I really applaud the fact that you're saying to people like hey this was what my journey was this is what it took but I really don't advise that okay so here's the thing man like excellence and uh Comfort cannot coexist if you want to be an anomaly and you want to be the trendsetter you want to be the top guy you got to be able to be comfortable being uncomfortable as far as like uh weight loss because you said I'm just saying things to get a viral clip how would you deal with the Obesity problem like I said pouring life into people how am I dealing with it I'm sharing what it's taking explain what poing life is like what would that actually look like as someone who creates content online I share what it is that I do in the gym I share my routine I talk about like hey today was a [ __ ] day but guess what I push past that and I just bench 405 that's more than I weigh when I want to hang out with friends if I know that my schedule does not allot me that time but I know that I have this time during the gym I'll tell my friends like hey pull up with me so you're inspiring others yes okay well what have I told you at the camp everyone's exercising together and they're inspiring each other but you you you approached it at such a negative way like you approached it from a place of Shame and like most of us have blatantly told you that shame didn't really work shame is what led me to an eating disorder shame is what led me to unsustainable weight loss when what we're looking for is stability who fault is that that you decided to go on un sustainable route with dieting who's fault that so if I was given a Time line that I needed to meet and I'm trying to figure out without also having the tools to do so the proper way and I'm just grasping at straws on how I do it yeah it's not sustainable yeah so whose fault is it that they chose an unsustainable rout to lose weight that's your fault see the problem is that you're a professional victim I don't know if you've caught on to this but you're a professional victim you constantly blame others for your inadequacies and why you're fat I I haven't blamed not one person for where I am yeah cuz you're always like oh my but's tough and this other stuff the reality is this man you eat too much figure out where these misconceptions about me are again again you can say whatever you want to say like I said I called you out on it and I said everyone has an excuse for why they're think it's really sad they can't take accountability for why really sad we got to pause let's bring in our disagre guys were arguing so much I forgot the prompt what was the prompt again it was I I don't want to be on the other side oh okay no of course I would I'm a curious person I have been in much more um traditional like aesthetically pleasing shape in my past uh but I've never gotten to like your guys standards and of course I'm I'm curious about anyone's life like what it's like to walk through their shoes so I don't see why I wouldn't be yeah I absolutely chose to if I could I'd switch so when I was my lightest weight which was 273 I wasn't anywhere near you guys but I had muscles I felt really good about myself and now that I've fallen back I I literally like almost hate life because I got somewhere got really close and it was Out Of Reach and I'm falling back and I got to fight again so if I could I'd absolutely would switch what makes it hard to like I don't understand like you are 273 feeling great how did you get back like I just that I'm curious curious no absolutely that so when I started my weight loss journey I was very focused like I can't take any outside help like I got to do this on my own I did all the research myself so my problem was when I would hit plateaus it hit hard because I'm like I'm doing what I'm supposed to do why not cutting weight So eventually I hit enough Plateau to where like my mentality was just breaking down yeah no I mean I agree with the prompt just saying like uh I'm probably wouldn't go extreme like on your side of the spectrums and that kind of stuff but I would like to look like Tyler everyone wants to look like Tyler Tyler is the ideal for me of what I want to look like um but I mean I wouldn't wouldn't be that short too but think I'm just going to say it the elephant in room every fat person would want to be in shape the problem is that they're not willing to do what's required to get in shape hence why they are fat it's just it's abundantly clear what you think like I we' could it's the next prompt is your physique is in your control can the agreer please step forward so long story short in 2018 I got to my heaviest weight which was 441 pounds and I was depressed as like I'm not going to cuss but you say it I was depressed as [ __ ] man like it was really it was really hard my weight had built like a cage around my mind so even things that I knew were good for me I couldn't even like go for it because my mentality was just so messed up and it got to the point to where I had someone tell me like dude you're going to die and that hurt you know and I just flipped things around and I think one thing we haven't mentioned is accountability I think that's the biggest thing when I was growing up my weight was always blamed on someone else um I was like oh it's my parents feeding me too much and it's like you can close your mouth like I don't have to eat you know but when I finally made that that that change in my head I realized that where you're at given like the ideal circumstances it is your choice I am where I'm at now because I made a series of wrong choices and didn't handle myself correctly I mean you deserve to be depressed if you're fat I mean the reality is is that see um depression is a very healthy response to inadequacy when you're a man you got to go out there and produce we're not women where we can just Coast on our looks and make it through life as a man you must produce I got to cut you off bro cuz no one deserves to be like people die from that [ __ ] bro like no one deserves to be depr let me finish the reason why you feel depressed and it's a healthy response to you being fat is because it's your body telling you like wow what are you doing you need to fix this you're sad because you're not going out there and accomplishing what you're supposed to do it's your masculine duty to make money to be successful to lose weight to be strong and fit so that you can protect and provide for the people that you love and when you're not able to do that you get depressed and you get sad rightfully so because you're a [ __ ] up have you experienced depression well I I've always been I've had times where I've been sad and stuff but I always get over it so you shouldn't speak on it then I think that's very insensitive people to actually have uh depression most of the time is not real no that's [ __ ] wild no that's [ __ ] wild the Earth is flat a a lot of a lot of the times when people are depressed it's because of their own inadequacies you're messing up in something in your life is that an inadequacy no he's saying he's saying like in the majority say a blanket statement there there's always going to be exceptions but I'm speaking generally in this context of being fat and why you were it's because that wasn't the only reason why I was depressed but go on okay but it's a component you know what I mean it was a big component it was a response to your inadequacy as a man and the thing is is that we live in a meritocracy I know everyone likes to run around and say oh everyone's equal and it's all equality for everyone no that's not how the world works why the [ __ ] should I be treated equally to someone who's fat broke not disciplined and not as intelligent it's it's a competition life is a competition where are you getting the Notions that people are not disciplined where like where is that coming from if you look depressed guys Etc look at their life nine out of 10 times they're not going to the gym they're not making the money that they're supposed to be making they're not where they need to be show me a guy that's making money successful has a good set of friends around him has a network Etc that is depressed you would rarely find that are there exceptions of the rule of course's there's always there's always exceptions to the ru the news there always R themselves because they were there's always to the rule but in general when you get depressed when you get depressed a lot of the times it's because you're a [ __ ] up and it's your body's natural response to being a [ __ ] up has anyone here ever felt like they didn't have control over their body or their physique there's times where I felt like I didn't have the control I wanted but there was never a point where I'm like this isn't within my ability to do yeah I think we all go through stages especially mental health you wish it was easier sometimes but other than that it's like no of course I'm in control of it I know I am so um I've started a fitness journey I've been smaller I've been bigger I used to be a dancer this like really was what fueled me hit a depression I turned to food as you know something to comfort me and I realized that I was spiraling Right started working out again kind of fell off of it but this year I told myself it was my year of Renaissance right that I was going to actively make the changes in all aspects of my life including my health including what my body looks like and what my body is capable of and so I've been doing that now did that mean that I was any l of a hard worker no I [ __ ] work three jobs two of them that I love and one of them as a survival job to make sure that I'm able to continue doing what I love so I go to the gym every single day after work it doesn't matter what time I get off of work it doesn't matter what things that I have going on after work I go but again going back to assumptions you looked at me and you made assumptions about laziness about not caring about my health and things like that when that's the complete opposite opposite I reached out I got myself a trainer cuz I was like I can't do this alone and I told them straight up these are the things that I want you to work on with me I want to work on building Mass losing weight but most importantly consistency and I feel like all of you guys can agree that that's what it is right am I where I like ideally want to be yet no but I also learned that I needed to love myself as I am right now and build those tools so that when I get to where I'm going I can enjoy it that much more because it's a labor of love it doesn't have to be a labor of love some people who are overweight are they going to the gym are they putting the fork down are they doing the things they need to do if they spent 14 hours a week doing cardio and eating healthy they would lose the weight I spend 14 hours a week learning Spanish even though I am am horrible at it but I'm trying my best and if everyone else tried their best we wouldn't see anyone more be little beast on this planet I I don't disagree with you at all but I think you said it's like you're spending 14 hours doing Spanish for me you know I still work out every week I still prioritize my health but there are other things in my life that do take High the calories and you're going to be very skinny but that guarant to that's the whole thing I'm not saying you need to I'm just saying no one should make excuses and that's why I think that's why we all sat down I totally agree it's within my cuz I've gotten really spelt in my past but I was at like my worst state mentally like didn't feel good wasn't prioritizing the things that meant something to me in my life my career my family my daughter health is still super important to me it's why I still work out still lift still do cardio still hike still bike still do all those things the amount of time I've had to spend in the past to get to that isn't worth it in my daily life I'd rather spend that time you know focusing on that also would you agree like looking at his physique like he's at a perfectly I would say maybe healthy no anything think he's definitely overweight definitely obese I mean if you you count BMI I'm not trying to put you down Just Being Honest by a BMI standpoint there's AIG difference between this weight and if you gain 200 lb but if you gain 200 lb i' be like why are you doing this to yourself you know what I mean but I wouldn't be happy gaining 200 lbs that's kind of what I'm saying is I kind of found kind of like a homeostasis where I'm happy and I feel healthy and I feel active and I feel like I can do what I need to do all my numbers are in the right place so I feel good it's just it hasn't been a priority for me to go further yeah you don't need to it's all about balance for me halfway what about you I just want to hear I was going to say I was in the same boat as him I feel like myself I feel comfortable with I'm am right now and I've lost 100 pounds um congrats I know thanks um and I can keep going I can St but like doctor says everything's fine with you you are obese but I will never forget the doctor told me you're healthy obese which was like blew my mind healthy for being obese yeah so I needed just one health condition to qualify under health insurance for a weight loss supplement for them I didn't qualify I had no high blood pressure they didn't have diabetes they didn't have anything else so I was like okay well I just want to lose weight because obviously as I get older it's not going to be like that but I mean perfectly I'm I'm just I know had the control to get where I'm at right now or where I want to be but I I'm pretty happy so yeah that's awesome like again I feel like what's Su stainable is different for everyone right um I think there's a way to weav Fitness in your life in a sustainable manner that might not Encompass you losing a ton of weight I think people kind of have different um stages in life where they're focusing on different things and I think that's something I can completely respect yeah at the end of the day as long as you know that you have the agency to actually make that change yeah when the time comes when you want to do it like I I don't see anything wrong with that I'm was very curious out of show of hands who feel who here feels like after spending time in this space you feel like you're closer to understanding the other side than when we stepped in the room guess a little surprised I understand it less literally like we'll talk we can't we run the risk of it blowing open again but this was a super super interesting discussion one of the more interesting episodes I've been a part of so thank you all thanks for sharing your perspective I think that's wrap right nice work guys gu talk you over there nice me brother a good fun

Channel: Jubilee

Views: 2,692,744

Keywords: jubilee, jubilee media, jubilee project, middle ground, spectrum, odd man out, versus 1, embrace empathy, live deeper, love language, blind devotion, Odd One Out, Game Show, Dating Show, Nectar, Ask Me Anything, Gen Z, Millennial, loveprint, jason y lee

Id: 3ACUcxThArs

Length: 77min 48sec (4668 seconds)

Published: Sun May 05 2024