DEEPER 158 - Asking The Hard Questions w/ Blurry Creatures

welcome to the conduit deeper podcast a podcast that takes a deep dive into the details that surround our current sermon series from current events to fascinating finds to conversations that take us deeper into the word thanks for joining us Welcome to our deeper podcast my name is Mo executive pastor at conduit church and we are not joined with our lead Pastor Darren Tyler he is unavailable today so in instead we decided to bring in our good friends the blurry boys Nate Henry Luke Rogers from blurry creatures podcast which you have heard us talk about the blurry creatures podcast you may be aware that we've hosted blurry con which has caused all kinds of problems good problems the greatest of problems okay good good good they're good problems exactly can we use fog machines can we not use fog machines pyot Technics in this building and so for those of you that already know about blurry creatures um I'm sure you're very excited for this podcast for those of you that have no idea what we're talking about uh I would love the opportunity to ask Nate and Luke you know what is blurry creatures how did this come together what is it about what's what's the purpose of the podcast um I I think the podcast started with talking about Bigfoot I mean that was the basic that was the basic DNA and the recipe of start there yeah just the weird podcast started with something real weird so you know the story is is um you know before the podcast started I was kind of researching stories and watching documentaries about Bigfoot of all things it was just weird enough but plausible and it was just a the right kind of coast to coast paranormal strange and then you know after five six years of doing that just kind of became more of a little bit more than an obsession I guess I was like or or a hobby I guess you know towards the obsession range of like okay I'm thinking about this a lot and I'm talking about this a lot with friends and family people probably think I'm a little weird but I just couldn't get enough of it and around 2019 was like listening to podcasts and people started talking about theologians started coming on a lot of this Bigfoot paranormal stuff that I was kind of in in these rabbit holes I'm like wait what does this have to do with what it could possibly Bigfoot in theology how do these things even cross it's a great question I don't know if that sentence has ever really been said until just now until now no Bigfoot in theology on this show yeah so 2019 got a logo design and just was like working on fixing up the third house that I had been of course of a couple years like fixing up houses and that's why I got into podcast to kind of keep me company and uh the name blurry creatures just popped in my head one day and was like okay I'm going to get the dot and then I had a friend design a logo and then I just sat around and thought about it for a while and then Luke was tweeting about Bigfoot one day it's true and I was like and we had done some we did fiful tweet we had been uh did some podcast episodes we did a live podcast with the bad Christian podcast and then we met there at uh the singer of emy's house actually or REM met I I forgot about that yeah you that part doesn't make the story a lot I yeah it doesn't wasn't it like an election yeah it was a live podcast on on bad christianis during the election yeah and then could go wrong with we became we became Pals weal we were NorCal kids and we we we had a bunch of mutual friends our history goes back even farther like Nate we Nate was in a band called Sherwood for a long time and in the in our College days he was at St Louis of bisb was at Cho State he's from Sacramento I'm from Chico Northern California yeah and we had a lot of mutual crossover cuz my friends I was like the the Bro jock that hung out with all the the band guys cuz I wasn't in a band but my best friends were all bands and they end up playing shows with sure so Nate and I had us crossover like 20 years plus years ago yeah um so I knew Nate in sort of an ancillary way and had met him and then we were friends and then he had a podcast before actually uh with Matt McDonald you had the don't Fe the trolls that I would I did an episode with you guys yes yeah and so we had all this crossover and then I always had sort of not the level of interest in Bigfoot but kind of like a funny haha to the point where I loved watching the shows you know Finding Bigfoot where they never found him of course it's sort of spoiler alert it's like 20th season they haven't found him yet but my mom would always buy me some Bigfoot thing like at Christmas to put in my stocking because it was like this joke that I liked those shows and I liked Bigfoot and um yeah and then there was Nate reached out I had a podcast before had a podcast before with my brother that we did it was a sports variety show it did it did well we end up killing it um because he had a a contract renewal with the SPN it's a long story they wanted to kind of own the content and we didn't want them to own it it was it was the beginning of very controversial things at that Network and we didn't want them to sort have creative di dictated dictative ability into the show and we just killed it and I had actually written down that year this is 2020 like I stopped doing New Year's resolutions because this a great way to feel like failing every year start year and just wrote down goals and that year I I want to get back into podcasting I want to have a podcast and I had an idea for a show I was going to do by myself and then Nate reached out and he's like hey you want to do a podcast on Bigfoot and I was like yes yes but with like uh but there's this whole spiritual element to it as well it's not he called me and explained all this to me I was like I Love That Let's uh yeah and it's cool because like Nate said these are the conversations he was having with his friends conversations this were in this sort of vein or conversations I was having with my friends like and still to this day are conversations I have with my friends not because we do blurry creatures because like sort of talking about the mysterious things in in in life and the UN the the unknown and the things that like you want to kind of break your brain on are things I like to do anyway I like to have a cigar and a bourbon and sit around and talk about those things and so this was kind of a way to do that and we just said we' do this yeah my mind we're doing this if just my parents and and our and our buddies listened it wasn't we never actually started out to be like we're going to make this a thing we didn't have a website till like episode 30 or something it was it was just yeah a fun thing where we were like let's just talk to people we were interested in talking to about weird stuff well there's plenty of weird stuff to talk about I mean our church family is going through the Book of Genesis right now yeah um starting in chapter 1 verse one and there's plenty in Genesis that gets weird pretty quick I mean we're talking you know talking serpents and uh Nephilim and sarams and all kinds of crazy things happening just in the first few chapters sure so what about that you mentioned the spiritual side like what so you you have this obsession with Bigfoot how did you start to kind of blend these two things together yeah and you know kind of go down the proverbial Rabbit Hole well I think that a lot of guys were talking about the Nephilim all of a sudden and I don't know why but I grew up in the church and I had was still interested in the conversation was still interested and you know I think we're all at that age where if you're still kind of going to church or you're having spiritual conversations you're you have some that you know you're you're confused from like a lot of the things cuz you grew up around the have these questions and you never really get good answers for them but you haven't like abandoned your faith completely I think a lot of people do in their late late 20s 30 they say they get sort of jaded and they walk away but if you're still kind of around the water cooler you you need better answers and I think that some of these theologians were like well there was this point in in history and the Bible talks about it when you had the sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6 you know meting with the daughters of men and there's these two distinct characters and they had this offspring that were the Giants the Giants that you know we know the most famous story is David and Goliath but there is that's just a snapshot of a whole history of all these ites like the Canaanites the amalekites you know all these these tribes that we thought growing up in the church were probably just bad human tribes doing bad things but not like actually could be genetic anomalies and because my mind was primed for the Bigfoot conversation because I had heard hundreds and hundreds of police officers you know parks and wreck and all these people that you know um were credible they were telling their stories and it's the same story over and over again it was like wait a minute this isn't the first time in history where there could be these genetic random things on our planet and then you start looking at like why is Greek history so weird and they they call it mythology but it sounds like history so and people really know a lot about these things and people are talking about you know this creature having these paranormal abilities but that's not like any animal that I know and how come it's so bizarre so um yeah those like the first 10 episodes so we we really first 10 of our in our catalog were Bigfoot and it went ranged from like Dr Jeff Meldrum who's like this is a relic ape yeah and I have 10,000 cast Footprints and a butt print I was like to bring that up and all these other things right but he's like it's definitely like a gigantopithecus it's this and then but then the other the Spectrum within this is what they call the Woo which is all this weird stuff around Bigfoot like he disappears he mind speaks and or he or she Patty was a she um they all this weird sort of woo kind of Patty is the famous 1967 Bigfoot that was filmed picture where she's walking and looks bad like Paranormal stuff around her right so in episode 11 we went to Giants and that was the segue it was like okay you have these people that think it's there's two camps it's a it's a relic ape or it's something else and it does a lot of weird stuff and maybe there's portals but is is it a giant kind of thing is it a remnant of the giant is it you know is it some sort of experiment gone wrong because it seemed as though when this Angelic DNA and human DNA got together it created these sort of literal Abominations things that weren't supposed to be here so you know and that's I guess we could talk about like you know this concepts of free will I mean why would God allow these things to happen but it it explains some of the major events in the Old Testament it explains some of the you know catastrophic events in the Old Testament and why God commands his people to do crazy things that modern day humans go well that's not nice and that's not fair that's genocide it really does help provide a context to the conquest of Joshua right and but you have to go back to Genesis and so it's funny we were here the first week with H Ross when he spoke when you guys kicked off Genesis and we interviewed who for our show and you guys started with creation but it only it's wild there but it just continues to kind of get crazy and like Nate said some of the things that frustrate folks in in church I know this is not the case with conduit because we know you guys well and and Darren does an amazing job of not of not glossing over or skipping what most Evangelical and Christian spaces would be things are uncomfortable yeah Genesis 6 is very I mean I spent my entire childhood in adult life never hearing about what Genesis 6 four verses was even about right that was a whole mind altering Paradigm altering thing for my faith but what it did as Nate saying it it applied all this context to the flood to the prophecy of Genesis 3 to everything that happened after that with and then after Noah to the to the return of the Giants and then like conquest of Joshua Nate was touching on is what's happened to a lot of folks in our generation I think is that people deconstruct right you you Mike Heiser who really in some ways like sort of the impetus and for the show in a lot of ways and and we lost Dr Michael Heiser last year to cancer but he wrote A Few books seminal books I believe in the Unseen realm being that one one thing he said that has always stuck with me is the Bible was written for you but not to you right it was written to in ancient peoples and and and in order to understand the context of things like genesis the Book of Genesis you have to think and put yourself in the shoes and in the head of an ancient semetic person and we don't do that we we act like in the 21st century we've got it all figured out in the books written to us and so when you do that there's a lot of folks now in the Progressive spaces that will say well I can't believe in a God that does XYZ and a lot of it is you know sponsors and genocide in in in the Holy Land the conquest of josa just like floods a world or floods the world or destroys Humanity the world floods it that's not a God I can trust or I can serve and what I think is missing or even some people go so as far as say to kill his own son why would he do that right and they don't even believe in that because they go so Progressive that they can't even they can't you know sponsor any sort of violence and and I think I was having a lot of these conversations with friends and I was like this is why this podcast needs to be started because people have no context for the weird stuff but the whole Old Testament most of it is strange and we we sort of watch a movie I think Christians like to watch you know the gospels it's like this 10% of the the good part of the film you know but they don't have any wait a wait a minute you know you walk into a half over movie and you're like wait what happened in I don't understand who's this guy what's he doing oh and it's Dynamic and you see Jesus is saving Humanity but you're like from what yeah and then a lot of the the answers are from you it's your fault and it's like entirely my fault well there's actually three major problems going on in the Old Testament and guys like Heiser get into that there's three rebellions in the Old Testament and the Genesis 3 is the first one and then you have Genesis 6 and then you know you have this Tower of Babel event later and it's you're like okay there's a ton of stuff going wrong and that is like the Free Will thing I was talking about earlier that that God allows you know human beings and his other created beings which are these Angelic beings which there's probably a whole you know host is the word a whole host different types of those right we know that they have job titles and we know that some of them don't look like this like the same probably and some of them look like us and you know that that's where the podcast kind of just exploded is like exploring these topics and every once in a while we' get bored or would get too heavy in the theology we bring back well this person saw grens and this person saw UFO this person bigot this person shot Bigfoot or this guy saw an actual Giant in Afghanistan and you're like you know he's a military guy films it on on thermal and he hasn't been able to explain this to anybody or tell his friends because everyone thinks he's crazy the Kandahar yeah well no this was same region same time but this was just he saw this thing stand up next to a tree and he said this thing was over 12 feet tall and you know some of these paranormal stories that that the average Christian is just like wait what are you talking about like you believe that stuff you think you actually have these conversations on your podcast and it's like well yeah your whole Bible is full of these stories too it's full of it and that's why I love I love that you guys have created an outlet for to ask these questions like normalize it almost right well I mean the gospel starts with I've heard you guys say this before it starts with a virgin birth it ends in a resurrection I mean that's that's some wild stuff starts with it starts with an astrological event you know have the Stars coming together and then you have you know Immaculate Conception birth you have Angels appearing to the Shepherds you know and it's like where who are they where do they come from and what are they like and why are they there um we I think we have this uh like a lot of people have said we almost have a gnostic view of the spiritual part of the Bible that it's like it's more oh we as a BL creatures but like we as Christians we've adopted more of a gnostic view then we have an actual practical view that maybe an angel could walk in this building right now and is just like us talks you know could interact with us to the point where we wouldn't even know like ruggedly handsome you know wears his hat backwards man yeah yeah not not that handsome yeah but you know those kinds of Concepts where we have sort of you know medieval perspectives almost that like we wouldn't it would be like a spirit that comes like a ghost would come in and then we would know that's an angel It's a ghost maybe it's more practical to view it as like another just a higher created being than us but we're what are we you know we're we're Spirit we're flesh um you know so I think those Concepts have to be thought about when you can actually say well Genesis 6 we can read we can read this literal that angels and humans hook up and they weren't supposed to but they were they were similar enough to have this DNA match but but also the result was was catastrophic for for humans yeah yeah now that you guys have kind of studied this for the past three four years this year four this is year four mosus yeah I like that one year four we know a little bit of GS we know mo now than we did before no mo you know mo than you did before now that you've you've gone down this multiple times with multiple guests who were these angels like what's your take on the Angels coming down and being with the daughters like what exactly is your take on who these people even were were they were they Angels oh they were what kind of angels Watchers this is interesting yeah yeah I mean it starts to open up a little bit of sure well I think you have to go back and the things that we start with in in this conversation you because we've done it a bunch is the idea of Angel and itself just being a Greek term angalo which just means messenger it actually does isn't a like Kingdom film of anything it just is means messenger it's it's a job and then if you talk about Watchers which the term we use on that that comes from the first Enoch especially with that term Watcher which is also in Daniel is also just a job so these yeah they're they're essentially it's like you know Pastor or construction worker or you know what professional golf or whatever that's it was just it's a job right so that is in itself kind of makes it cryptic you don't really don't get a whole lot of information we know that as Nate was saying a lot of things happen with angels in the Bible they walk into Sodom right uh they the angel of the Lord wrestles with with Jacob uh the angel of the Lord shows up and eats with Abraham they a lot of like real physical practical things so yeah and that's what they're eating in you know in the wilderness they're eating the food of Heaven angel angel bread baby angel food cake yeah that's true which is just like strange Concepts I don't think that I think they're they get hungry like we do and they somehow developed a lust for human beings right and these concepts are hard for people because I don't know there's some sort of of disassociation between everything is you know we don't we've heard a lot of people on our show say I don't like the term Supernatural because what it does it says there's this way and then there's this other way that's beyond like there's this natural way of things and like what if all of this is you know Supernatural what if all of this is um could be categorized as Supernatural and and we we we sort of disassociate these things and then when you read the stories that seemed outside of your day-to-day you you put him in a different place instead of putting them no this is this is all one story and this this is all a miracle this is all strange and crazy I mean what we're doing right now is is you know is a crazy concept if you really just think about what's happening right now to just have this conversation and where we are and where we are in history and where we are in the galaxy and I don't know I think that we've divorced ourselves from just the phenomenal part of the story and uh so so when we read this idea angels and humans like come on that's that's nuts and then they develop this other alternate Theory called the sethite theory right which they interjected this whole other narrative with someone who's not even in the in in the building when it comes to like characters and then they kind of well it's just it's just a different line of humans and they're just like bad they're just Bad Dudes just a bad a bunch of bad dudes and it's like okay well then you know where do we get demons where do they come from where do we get these these giants that are in the land I mean you know in numbers it says they're as biggest you know cedar trees Cedars of Lebanon um which those were up to 25 to 40 feet tall so I mean I don't think that I don't think those are just random Heights they're thrown out there I think they knew and I think that's why only a few of the spies even wanted to go in there because I mean imagine looking down over the hill and be like I we're not going in there I mean we're not gonna we're not GNA take these guys and the the Angelic mixing was the view of the of up until about 400 ad so you're talking about the time of Christ before Christ all of these that was the interpretation that was the belief system at the time at the time of Christ and Christ has learning in the temple this is what they believed up until at some point in four in 400ish they decided it was this was a little uncomfortable so we're going to sort of try to find a way to massage that and what we've talked about from a theological standpoint with theologians is there are so many more hoops and bad assumptions and bad hermen and Etc and ex aesus that you have to do to make that conclusion um especially when the Hebrew is very specific about what's happening right and and of course this is a very uncomfortable thing talking about gen we're talking about angels and this is Fantastical sounds like Lord of the Rings or something right but this is what was CS Lewis might have been might have been Hest of things right this is this is what was believed up until the time of Constantine Etc when they when they were when this became sort of an uncomfortable truth or however you want to really and then it was easier but then you have to go and say okay well the Nephilim has to just be Mighty Men you have to deconstruct things and reconstruct them that doesn't actually line up with the Linguistics the language the original language Etc they try to make this all fit and then there weren't Giants okay and this they were just Mighty Men then how does that work and then you have to kind of like we got to massage all these measurements and you kind of get into this space of just fallacy after fallacy after fallacy to get to a point where to feel comfortable like in your in your Moody Bible commentary like I have to say this is this was just bad dudes and taking wives and all the sudden there's something out extraordinary happens that's isn't yeah I remember Heiser on a podcast he said you know the average seminarian like graduate will get one to two hours on Angels and Demons that's it like their whole you know all their teaching yeah and this is this is why I think there's this huge gap and why I think our show is a has gotten to where it is is because you know you have all these people with these these questions and and they don't get any answers but most people who come on our show talking about something else have a paranormal experience they can't explain whether they've seen Bigfoot or they've seen some sort of demonic manifestation or they've seen ghost or they've had uh they've seen a UFO or they whatever it is and a lot of people actually silently suffer with these attacks like a lot of the alien abduction stuff that nobody wants to talk about they think it's hollywoodized people actually regularly nightly deal with this and they pray and they and they and they silently suffer and it's sad because of what Luke and I have experienced is people don't they don't want their names out there they haven't told anybody we've had several people say I've never told this story to anybody and like your kids no I haven't even talked to my kids about it why us why now so we've given this space to people to open up and be honest but we started with some with the data and talking about what the Bible says this is the most plausible that's would have been the context is how how do we how do we interpret and filter all the weird through a Biblical Paradigm yeah and so I mean Genesis right like I think the one of the things was mind-blowing was you know Genesis 3 is the first Prophecy in the Bible right it's that the God says that the seed of the woman will crush the head of The Serpent and the serpent will deliver a blow to the to the to the seat of the woman a fatal blow and so you have this prophecy of Christ right and I had never constructed in my own Paradigm the Old Testament in a way that to understand once that happens set sets off a chain of events right because now this has been prophesied God himself has prophesied this over the darkness over the Rebellion over the serpent Rebellion saying a human let see the woman is going to it's going to be your demise the end the end of you and then shortly after you see this Genesis 6 event and so if you look at in that context you're seeing what What's Happening Here well part of what's Happening Here is the is the Rebellion these angels that Rebel are genetically changing the pool on on Earth and if you will it's a seed War we've talked kind this this idea of a seed War I'm not sure if Darren's covered this or not but like the idea that that a lot of the things that happened Downstream from the serpent in the garden and and the fall of Adam and Eve and God prophesying this is all a direct correlation to that is in Genesis 6 is part of that if we can't remove Humanity from the equation then the seed of the woman can't Crush headed serpent can't Crush our rebellion and and then you get to the flood and you go this is why it's happening no is pure and God's got to take these these fully humans and take them into an into a safe space into an ark and remove them and then judge this you know um Abomination this creation this manipulation of DNA by the darkness in a sense and then you go well of course the Christ had to come and we went back to the we just talked about Virgin birth on thing Christ had to come as fully God fully man the son of man um and he in his line there's so much genealogy in the New Testament if we want to skip ahead that goes all the way back to Adam why does it do that yeah we talked about that in chapter 5 genesis chapter 5 is all all the lineage you know from Adam to Noah and the importance of that from Noah all the way forward but for for you guys too when when we talk about angels and demons right yeah it's it's an after having listened to your podcast and and obviously studying on our own and um having these discussions it's an oversimplification right to have two categories yeah binary yeah very binary because we even you know we even asked this question to to Hugh Ross at least I did when I had the chance on our podcast sure when we were talking about aliens right yeah the aw and and for him it was very binary those are angels or demons but you know having studied this and listening you know to you guys and your guests and the folks that you've had on you know I think we've all learned that that's more than just two boxes to check two categories two silos yeah expound on that what what do you think that you have uh what conclusions perhaps have you come to in terms of the potential categories for the different types of creatures or how do you how do you explain yeah aliens and is would you agree it's not as binary as just Angels and Demons yeah I mean I think demons is you know mostly people will say it's a disembodied spirit it's actually a spirit and we know the spirit is a thing right we know you know there's many instances in the New Testament where people thought they were seeing ghosts the ghost of Peter the ghost of Jesus they knew what a ghost was but a demon is something different so they had some sort of categorization they knew what these things the differences of these things were um you know people will see physical creatures they'll see a physical Bigfoot they'll see physical gray they'll see a physical craft what is that you know since when is a demon like have an assembly line building craft it doesn't happen right have a body so what Christians get their their initial reaction is fear oh I'm afraid of this CU I don't understand it I don't know all I know is there's these three characters you know there's Angels humans and then there's these bad Spirit things and then there's God but I don't know how to make sense of the anything else and so we get a lot of people that react to those things but there seems to be a hierarchy of characters like even like is a cherub a specific type of Angel versus a watcher you know or serim maybe there's a class of angels that are like us and then maybe there's some that are like you know a next level like they have different abilities I don't know I mean we know that you know the sons of God is a term used in job it's used in Genesis it's it's describing not and he says the daughters of men so you know and Jesus refers to himself as the son of man so we know there's a difference between yeah these beings and us but it you know I think that when we lay out the characters when we talk about them what we usually do an episodic we we try to tackle a specific topic or a specific creature and and I think that blurry creatures has grown just from talking about a paranormal sighting of something that shouldn't exist that does um to you know basically some theology that the church doesn't want to talk about you know is is Jesus in that category of of you know you know he's he's he's God but he's also human he gets blurry pretty quick it gets blurry and I think too that like you know when we're talking about our ideas we we just interview folks so we're just sort of soaking in yeah and Dr Michael who we reference again we had him on the show twice and uh I think his work he listen he he's a a PhD in ancient semetic languages um ancient Hebrew and one of the things is the Bible is very um vague right Elohim when Nate's talking about uh the sons of God it's Ben Elohim and it means it's it's really hard to make that anything other than a Divine yeah creature I was going to ask you about that the Divine counsel the Elohim yeah yeah so it it's used right in it's used for God Elohim singular and then Elohim Ben Elohim the sons of God which is which implication of divine nature um Elohim is also used plural but the Hebrew itself is still somewhat vague right you can use different sources but the truth is when in those places like Psalm 82 which is heiser's famous famous spot right it um and then in the Hebrew in Genesis it it can not be anything but a a divine creature and and one thing I've said just on on your on your on our show and just in my own opinion is if we look around us here on Earth and being being humans there's billions of different species and types of creation here and and I think we probably sell ourselves short if we if our imagine imagining or our our ideas of Heaven is like you said as you said it's so binary just God and angels right um because when we hear about heaven or the Bible talks about heaven there's roads and walls and buildings and all these different things that that seem to kind of talk about civilization so my hypothesis that there is a plethora of of created beings that exist in that space and we kind of broad brush it when we talk about demons demons are a specific thing Mike came on the show was talking about demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim that's what they are yeah they're disembodied Spirit as n said so then you have fallen angels so because Angels such a vague that's a good distinction because such a a a vague thing Elohim right you have the Ben Elohim you have these Fallen Angels doesn't really give you a lot of category or Kingdom or philm it's it's very broad but it's a very different thing than and then at least we know and depends how you can take a lot of views there's a practical view like Nate was talking about that you know or or that Angels take a form it's like a poof Theory we don't know we can't say without with any kind of um certainty how that works except except that Angels do very physical things and demons as we know in the New Testament they inhabit other vessels bodies when when Christ when Christ casts the demon the legion out of the de demoniac at the tombs they ask to go in pigs they want to go into another body this is not the behavior of say an angel this is this is a very difficult different thing and so when we're talking when people want to Broad brush everything's demons whether it be UFOs or aliens those things actually like from a very practical standpoint don't operate in in way complex yeah it's it's there's much more going on here no do we know specifically no but I think we can Define what a demon is and when you do sort of reverse engineer that and go well it's definitely not this right I think too is like a lot of what we do is give context because the you know it's sometimes the Bible's more of bullet points and highlight reel I mean Genesis is going through a lot of stuff very quickly six is four verses it doesn't give you you know like the whole outline and the play byplay of you know what Moses was doing you know all day long it doesn't it's just these miraculous events happen they're part of the story they're part of the over Arc you know so let's let's put them in there and I think most of us will read these stories and be like wait wait wait and we have this skepticism how this is this couldn't have happened this didn't happen and so what we do a lot on our show is try to find more context things stories you know um you know just like any event any any sort of wild or weird thing that happens Witnesses testimonials yes right yeah and that's a big part of building the case you know why people believe Jesus Jesus resurrect from because eyewitness accounts and yeah they were there um and so people were just so quick to dismiss well you saw something well you were on drugs or you were imagining it or you know you have a mental health disorder whatever it is and I think we are always trying to give more context so there's extra biblical literature that is that you know is quoted all over the New Testament things like The Book of Enoch and people are always afraid of those things but it's something that like Kaiser said I heard him on many shows say that you know they were all the writers of the New Testament um they read everything they knew everything they weren't afraid of information now some of it isn't considered like you know Canon Canon and you know Divine or whatever you want whatever inspired yeah yeah we talked about that I think a couple podcasts ago we dove in a little bit about the Book of Enoch sure but you guys reference it often on your podcast yeah would love your Insight with our listeners to your Take On The Book of Enoch one specifically and why we say one specific yeah well well this is this is timely because we actually we're releasing a version of the book Enoch U with our friend Tim alberino who's been a part of our show a number of episodes also blurry con as you preferenced and the next one coming up tentatively June 11th right now tentatively that's incredible but so there's three there's really three Enochs and so the first is is the one is the ancient one and and we we know it's ancient because it was discovered in the uh at kumran in the Dead Sea Scrolls there it was the second most copied book at by the ases in kumran so it's very ancient second and third are second maybe second temple third is really weird it's a gnostic thing so those ones we are going to be part of our book because you want to have them all those are not what we're referencing really first Enoch is is the one that's that's quoted in the New Testament in Jude and first Peter um also paraphrased a number of times in the new in the New Testament especially the book of Watchers and what what it really is is it's an expose it's an expounding upon Genesis 6 it fills in the story because Gen 6 is four verses right and so what what does this mean what happened and this is this is what happened it names players it names villains it talks about the things that these Fallen Angels did and they taught humanity and then what and then of course Enoch is the main character in this and he is he is a he is called upon as some taken taken up into heaven that part he's called upon to really like he's like a lawyer if you will for the fallen angels that are being judged yeah they ask them to to on on their behalf to to make a plea to God right and so he's sort of representing was really interesting because not to divert too much but when we think about the supernatural realm it operates so legalistically we talk about anything Deliverance to the way that things operate it's so legal and then you have a courtroom scene the same thing in Psalm 82 this courtroom scene yeah God God works from a very legal standpoint and then Enoch first Enoch is really what happened and then Enoch representing these these Fallen Angels before their judge ultim they're judge and put into Tartarus um but as Nate said right and Mike Heiser said they the writers of the New Testament were very well read and this was something that they referenced was most likely studying in Temple and they knew and they referenced it to the point where when they were doing the cannon um put the Canon together they didn't have any because of the destruction of the second temple they didn't have any copies of this so they actually at the time thought first Enoch was plagiarizing or lifting from Jude and first Peter like this is contemporary and it wasn't until it was discovered in kumran in the Ancients they realized okay no no no no yeah older what it's older and they're actually quoting that and so amazing you know take it for what it is right it's it's not but those concepts are only found like like I said that you know in The Book of Enoch if you want to know the angels that sinned that he's talking about what what where does that come from what Angels do in how do angels and these entire but it's like little B little blips and so you can just glaze over it and be like oh we're not going to we're not going to talk about that in First Peter we're not going to talk about what Jude said I think it's easier to kind of just go to the to sort of the the main points that most churches like to talk about but a lot of people who they get to an age and they're like wait a minute this doesn't make any sense there's just too many gaps that need to be filled in one of my favorite verses is um Genesis 5:24 when it says Enoch walked Faithfully with God yeah and he was no more because he took him away yeah it's like okay wait a minute time out like where did he go yeah how did he get there where where is he now he got picked up on the old Elijah DeLorean went as well yeah Enoch and Elijah you know it's like how did this how did this happen the two witnesses maybe at the end see there's a whole yeah and we yeah we've talked about that a little bit I and I think that's a that's a fantastic but it's context right it's all context it's like yeah no matter what you think about this book you know it's giving you more context how to read the books that you consider you know part of the Bible well this these people are talking about these other ideas and even when our episode with Tim I remember he was talking about when Jesus says you know there in my father's house there are many mansions if were not so I would have told you that whole idea is talked about in Enoch what mansions and why is he defending it if it were not so I would have because this concept there are Mansions there's a place being prepared this not talked about anywhere else in scripture so what is he talking about the term son of man yeah the term son Christ calls himself son of man is nowhere in scripture but it is in first Enoch it's never used until Christ calls himself the son of man and you go where's that from well first Enoch if you read it is there's a ton of Messianic prophecy in tons and it's interesting the book's interesting because the beginning talks about this this is not for this time but for a distant time and and then lo and behold it's lost you have destruction of the second temple the Romans tear every stone even the cornerstones as Christ prophesies is removed all of this stuff is lost and then it's preserved because of what the ases did at kumran by some goat herters that happen to find all these this amazing history and copies of you know not just the books of the Bible like the Isaiah Scrolls incredible and Genesis but there's first Enoch is and they were an apocryphal um sect if you will they were waiting for the end and so Enoch is very much about the end and so that makes sense from that standpoint but the fact it existed then that just predates Christ is gives the validity to say okay they knew this it's it's like uh you know a bad example like we've all in our generation we all to read you know Huckleberry Finn or whatever like we know that story yeah right for what it is and so that provides this cultural context from which explains in this case explains the Genesis 6 um so it's a bad analogy this redo it here maybe it's like Wedding Crashers like if we quote it we all know it we all know what we're talking about Tombstone right um well it's just like Jus works during the time of Christ very historical it's not it's not canon but it's it's it's history and it's evidence this is this is all this this is another piece that explain that helps to ratify if you will or um bolster this this story and I right yeah and I think just the the mindset in general there was not as many Skeptics I don't think you had sect of people who didn't believe in things I think you had anilist like in the big Labowski believe in nothing you know what I mean the entire and I think of you know something modern that we've come to understand now like an iPhone or in the internet you know we've had 20 years of the internet now you know more than 20 years of the internet so it's like these Concepts if you and I were talking in a conversation it was being written down and someone said you log on what's the Wi-Fi you're not going to spend 20 chapters trying to explain what what the internet is what the connection is what what is Wi-Fi what's a password you know nobody knows these things but that those terms are dropped a lot in in the Bible and then nobody is thinking oh thousands of years from now people are going to read these Concepts and they're not going to know what a Nephilim is let's explain what the Nephilim are in the next 10 chapters you know it just uses those terms and it and it moves on and so it's not trying to hold your hand it's not trying to make you as a skeptical modern human in the 21st century oh we don't believe in these things it doesn't Care's quote too right it's written for you but not to you like the idea that that that was cultural Bedrock that was cultural knowledge it was Nuance it was it was uh something that was understood with within the context of the story yeah that we miss because we're separated by Time by Millennia right and I think that's what's so fascinating Mike would say like he he never had any new ideas but he just he just compiled the the work of the scribes and then and then he just encouraged people people to to read the Bible as in the context it was written as an ancient semetic person yeah and that in itself is mindblowing because you because I think so often in the 21st century church we want to read ourselves into it as we're the hero we're David we're you know we're Moses we're Abraham and like it's not it that ain't it actually not it at all right um or that they had a whole life of paranormal events some of them only had moments maybe one or two moments in their in their career where they had a burning bush you know Sam got his haircut man one time and that was it bro you know but it's like you know if we dug up your Journal right thousand years from now and you're like today I interviewed the blurry creatures guys and we had a live stream you know they would be spending a long time trying to figure out what the heck is a live stream what is that and they' be looking at all these little fragments of other stuff trying to figure out what a live stream is because in a thousand years it's going to be something totally different right and I think that that's if we're there we if we make it yeah things are getting we real quick a little weird out there but you know I mean that's kind of what we have to do and what we do on our podcast because a lot of these conversations are not welcome on Sunday morning they're not welcome in families and at around the dinner table people that are like they get real upset you know they they and I think we have just adopted bring that neim talk here to Thanksgiving don't you dare we've adopted a posture of like you can come on our show and say weird things we don't agree with everything you say but we definitely will hear you out and say okay you have 10,000 hours and I think the most one of the most mindblowing things that that we always incur is how someone will come on a theologian a doctor somebody who's completely in a different sect of life and and and knowledge will tell you my grandpa saw Bigfoot and he had and he swears to this day and he went to his deathbed or whatever it is and he tells the story or I saw something that I can't explain every single time and then over four years only like two or three people have no thoughts on these creatures but it's it's like wow you know people don't talk people are afraid to communicate people are afraid to express themselves people are afraid to ask weird questions why why why are they afraid I think that's the same reason why they were afraid of the Book of Enoch it's just not safe it's just too weird it doesn't fit into my normal day everyday life because they read the Old Testament maybe and they think all this crazy stuff is going on for them but it doesn't happen now and then they have these whole you know sexs of Christianity who don't to just say Miracles don't happen anymore like what like are you kidding like that point thing is why these conversations are so important Mo especially what you guys are doing a conduit now is is because if you don't discuss these things or or don't ask about the weird don't try to unwrap and talk about the weird stuff whether it be in the Bible or people's experiences you don't you don't try to do that um because you've built this safe space around around your faith as you would right which is really ironic in the sense of what we talked about earlier right we believe in some really crazy stuff but what we're trying to do is have these conversations and and say you know maybe all of these things fit inside our faith because if you don't have these discussions and you and you've had an experience maybe you had like a u you saw a UFO or you you're going to go look for answers and when you look for it outside the church and outside your faith the world's more than willing to disciple you in what they think you should believe that's never going to be in from a Biblical worldview it's never going to be within the context of the gospel of Christ it's never going to be that way and we contend is that there are answers in the biblical narrative there are answers in our faith and all we have to do is is really just have the discussions and and sus it out because you know Mike Mike Heiser again not to beat a dead horse but Mike came on and said listen one the famous things on our show he said all these accounts whatever it is Bigfoot or UFOs or aliens if just one is true all the other ones say other ones are lies just one is true breaks the Paradigm and you got to find a way to put that into your worldview and make that make sense and and I do think that the things that are accelerating happening right now Nate and mo in in our in our culture we we we have house oversight committees on uaps last year UFOs right if we don't have these discussions and talk about it from a context of of the Bible which by the way completely holds up when it comes to these these topics um then a lot of people are going to be deceived they're going to walk away and say this disqualifies my faith aliens and this stuff disqualifies my faith UFOs disqualifies my faith a big hairy ape man running around in in the woods disqualifies faith that isn't in the Bible that that can't be real people are going to walk away from the truth because they're they're not finding answers to the questions and then what we can is let's let's have a discussion let's look for better answers and you know and I keep coming back to it like the Bible God God there's a cosmic reality to the Bible that that I think we've divorced ourselves in the 21st century post Enlightenment and it's a very Supernatural faith and and the Ancients didn't divorce the natural from the supernatural it was a reality and we've kind of come to this space where we hold these things in two different hands um but again like we our faith is so very Supernatural Cosmic if you will um we we you know talking donies are resurrected Christ Giants um you either believe it all or I think it inval everything having ears to hear is a concept it isn't it isn't that I'm a Christian and all of a sudden I have ears to hear it's like I have to humble myself and continue you know a lot of these people who have Monumental parts of the story these things happen later in their life after they grew over a period of time you know you have to you have to have a relationship with God and and it's it's testing it's different can you handle this task okay then you can handle this task you know it's not like we wake up one day as a Christian all of a sudden we have the ability to understand all all the cosmos and everything God has created and you have to sort of have that intellectual humility to go okay I'm going to put this in there and I'm going to I'm going to think about this you want it and and some of these stories that and I think to Luke's Point some people go mad they get driven mad there's all these stories you watch any paranormal show like someone saw a UFO in their backyard and it ruined their marriage because they got so obsessed they couldn't make any sense of it or they saw a Bigfoot creature and they spent the rest of their life and their life savings trying to find it again because it just becomes this unhealthy Obsession because nobody will talk about it and I think the the most damaging part of it is people won't believe their own stories m something will have happened to them and they don't believe it just dismiss it they can't use it away how do you admit to yourself this is happening this is my reality and that is the most destructive and I think that happens on all kinds of you know people have traumas and they don't even want to believe that happened to them let alone and some of these events are traumatic you know you're you're you're seeing something that shouldn't exist and so I think we feel like there's a there's a counseling part of what we do too like you're welcome here to drop your burden drop your load because I know that you're carrying this around and people look at us like we're nuts because of because of what we talking about I would say like do we do we agree with everything on the show absolutely not but but I think like I said I think I think sometimes you don't think that someone is making something up because it doesn't it seems like a burden they're carrying why would they come on they feel like they need to drop this thing and I think you know but yeah you mean you you chew the meat and spit out the bones right I think I think having discussions like this are just are so important especially in a time where there is just it's so ripe for deception um well yeah I mean here at conduit for sure we we try to double down on biblical literacy yes like we feel we feel like in our culture I think it's safe to say in our culture today biblical literacy is close to I I hate making like gross generalizations but it's close to an all-time low biblical literacy understanding what the Bible says and I think yeah for us that's something we want to double down on is teaching the Bible yes and asking the hard questions in in creating a a format and um an environment where we can have these discussions so that's like first and foremost for us here at condo which is why we would even know about your podcast or even the same way like go look read your Bible and open up your Bible it's it's the the greatest and I think a better way I think a better way to think about this I mean we're an ' 80s show we always use like ' 80s movies to like explain and Market our show right just cuz it's we're both kids of the ' 80s but there's you know one of the best ' 80s movies the never- Ending Story right I mean he realizes he's in the story as he's reading it and I think that's the best way to read the Bible you're in the story you're a character in this you're not the character in this you're down here somewhere you're important but you're not the only thing that matters you're not the only thing that's out there and I think that once you start to realize oh man I'm a part of I'm like at a point in time I'm the end of an age here and I've been dropped into existence at this point in time and all these people have been fighting against you know there's been a spiritual war we're in the middle of it you know we're we're we're caught in a crossfire Between Heaven and Hell Cosmic battle Yeah and and and sometimes we we have these times where there's no fighting there's no war going on people are just bunkered down for a couple weeks but that's Millennia to to the spiritual realm like that could be thousands of years where things aren't happening the same way you know like 40 years in the you know wandering in the wilderness maybe they had one day where was there burn burning Bush or you know a cloud shows up and they follow you know whatever it is it's not always strange all the time and I think that right now somebody listening to this podcast has had a paranormal experience I know it's true and they've been telling themselves their whole life it didn't happen but when you start to hear these conversation like that did happen to me and it they begin to change their mind and I think we have to read the Bible as if we're in the middle of the story at a specific time let's say this movie is you know an hour and a half we're at we're kind of getting closer to the end of the movie and it's starting to get wrapped up and we have to go all the way back and be like okay this started with these characters and then this guy came and this guy died and this guy came and then this this whole this whole event happened and then there was a FL you know and and realize we're in it we're in the war we're a part of it and we're a character and we're called to do something about that and I'm not I'm not detached from the Phil but you know I think that that's when it started to come alive to me and that like Heiser said you know don't bore me with the Bible it's not boring um I grew up in the church church I grew up going to Christian School Christian camps and a lot of times it was boring nobody wanted to talk about anything that was strange and nobody really and then once it got a little strange and weird then I like started to get on the edge of my seat and go wait a minute talk about that what is that and I think that's what we try to do that's where the podcast birthed out of it was like these are the weird conversations and we're going to have those we don't feel like we're the the theology experts we're not we don't have Doctorate Degrees but if it's weird and it seems and there's some data to it Dr M let's talk about it right it's it's got a place here in blurry creatures and I think that that is uh you know with some humility in we don't know anything but we're willing to like let you you have your 10,000 hours you wrote a book about something come on a show talk about it but not like Joe Rogan where it just gets crazy and weird and then he's very skeptical we're kind of like okay if we funnel this through a Biblical worldview then there's there's plausibility to everything that's being said right now you know trusting the listeners that that they can make up their own minds like you're you're you're here's here's some info here's some data and here here's a hypothesis and and like yeah exactly but you you have the ability to make up your mind and and if you if we're going to filter that through the Bible that's the best way to do that now when you're trying to answer unanswerable questions you just got maybe get better answers you don't you don't get like you're not going to get a it's not going to disprove the Bible it's only going to make the Bible more true read and deeper and richer and then Christ coming to save us is way more epic and full and he's saving us from a lot more than just ourselves yeah yeah and as as we wrap up here what one of the you just mentioned a minute ago you know like we're getting to the end of the chapter right so seems though it seems as if so you know history history can inform the future yeah in a lot of ways exactly and and and Jesus says As in the days of Noah right so so again where we at where are we what what is what is happening right now yeah I think I think I think the days of Noah is like Rebellion Beyond just moral Rebellion it's it's like genetic Rebellion it is like anything God made any system God designed we're going to screw it up and I think that they were sinning against it says you know they're sinning against animals in the Book of Enoch and All Flesh All Flesh is corrupted I mean that's that's a that's also a Biblical concept what does that mean you know how do you how do you sin against beasts and and plants and and human beings and um I think this genetic tempering that we've been doing the last you know 30 years is finally to get to a place where I wonder if the days of Noah forced God's hand because you know there was things here that shouldn't be here and eventually we play Mad scientists to the point where God has to get involved and like you can't do that you can't do that to my creation you can't do that to my people so I think we're getting close and especially with AI and and yeah I was going to ask you so like AI bioengineered everything all of these different things nanotechnology well is this the the I think one one of the most interesting things on that note it from from a very very simp simplistic idea is that uh and this is Tim albino's idea this is not this is not my idea but the idea that like there's a very small part of our DNA that makes us human and separates us from the rest of creation it's a very small piece we're like we're I don't think we're like 90 call that the image of God right right and we're at the point now where we can probably more than likely remove that portion of our own DNA and and part of that from a very simple idea is is as Tim would say is our our Birthright is Dominion so God gave the Earth to Adam and and all was in it and told him subdue creation and be fruitful multiply you're in Genesis so what does that what does that mean well it means that we're this is our space Paul says we'll judge Angels here this is our realm if you look think about you know the Kingdom of Heaven in these places as Realms as a kingdom this is ours we're at the point now where we genetically technology-wise we can dehumanize ourselves like technically speaking that could be the like unforgivable sin right where you convert yourself to something that is no longer human you're no longer redeemable you're no longer to be saved and then we we forfeit our Birthright and our Dominion here and then and then that becomes usurp by the Beast by the Rebellion you get the whole neuralink right thing happening right I mean so there's all these things right like can we genetically upgrade ourselves to humanity 2.0 can we can we modify our genes with epigenetics and all these things to you know in the in the idea of like curing cancer and doing all these really good things but really there's nefarious side to every coin which is is to remove those things that make us human right and everything's about a seed war from the beginning in Genesis 3 and knowledge right and it's like you know he promised knowledge and then you no God you won't die you won't die and so there's these things that with human beings always want we want more we want to know more want to have more knowledge and we don't want to die we want to stay here we want to stay the Fountain of Youth we want to continue on we're actually afraid of judgment we're afraid of the next the next life we don't know a lot most of us are are Liv in fear on a daily basis pursuing immortality yeah yeah and we and we we spend billions of dollars trying to stay young and and uh you know we don't want to be a grandpa by 4 44 you know what I'm saying hey a grandpa at 44 is amazing that's just that's like three that's 40 chest but I think I think uh yeah I think uh I think eventually the technology is getting to the point where it's it's going to be like Terminator self- aware and I think at that point how they did things in the ancient times I don't know I don't know how they sinned against the how they created these chimerical creatures which all were rumored to exist and some people come on our show that still see these things to this day that you're like that's that's that's mythology that didn't happen you're like well people are still seeing these things so either they're lying or they're still around in some pockets of the world but I think that this this blend of like modern technology and ancient technology and trying to tempt humans to say you can't have modern mortal immortal it's it's the Temptation Of The Garden you can be like it's just it's a different it's a different form of it it's like the days of Noah but it comes in this package that's that's new and fresh and sounds like you're in you're in line at the Apple Store waiting for it you know and it's you're you're conditioned to to upgrade and eventually I think the problem is is if humans convert themselves to human 2.0 the questions are are you are you still under God's jurisdiction at that point converted yourself to something that's not and how are you going to compete how are you going to compete in a world where you've got superhumans running around so you know the demigods the Nephilim the mighty men that Genesis talks about they were men of renown famous why were they famous because they had this this knowledge that we didn't have they were human 2.0 so the days of Noah will be a Temptation I think to become human 2.0 it won't maybe be because angels and humans are hooking up it'll be more like they they give you the same thing but it's a different delivery system so I think that that is like you said history repeats itself that's sort of the Temptation I think said nothing to do with their son so like we know that that it's the same deceptions are always shopped to humanity they just get remarketed it's different marketing different packaging right and I think that's I think that's is you're saying like that's it right they'll be offering it's again they're offering this you know there's a hybridization just like in the old test we're becoming not human right um and I it's I just it's coming and and it's coming a lot faster I think I think if you look at at the advancement of Technology just in the last 30 years or last 10 years there's just just been a dramatic speeding up of uh development and discoveries and technological advances that feels like we're barreling towards towards something seismic it's it's it's close it feels close and I just and just paranormal experiences that people are having seem to be on that up the veil seems to be liftting people we're going to be like you know Kevin cner looking for that real piece of ground you got your shorts ready just need a jet ski I'm ready baby Kenny Powers man give me give me that purple cheetah jet ski Nate and Luke thank you yeah for spitting time with us no problem um you guys are the best yeah you guys have been so good to have blurry creatures into us and our our our families to our to the people that love the show like you guys are just even incredible and we're again blurry con too is happening here it's happening here so we're going to be back at it yeah send your normal fans to us we'll send our weird fans to you how about that it's already happening it's already happened we get we get quite the interesting emails yeah sorry about that thanks for putting up with that makes makes my day getting those getting those texts from you guys that's why we say we're too dummy so the people will email everybody else and not us don't they don't know they don't know anything We're Not Gonna all they do is quote movies We're Not Gonna harass those guys they don't know what they're talking about but they they harass anyone who comes on our show or anyone who has written a book so but seriously though thank you for having us and like hosting our events and just being real friends in this because I think that over the years Luke and I have realized like we've taken on a little bit of a burden doing this it's a little strange like heavy too it's very heavy and talking about stuff that nobody wants to talk about or believes know especially when it comes to like Satanic ritual abuse and some of the darker parts of our show I mean it's a it's a part of Christianity that nobody wants to look at because it's not fun it's not glamorous and then you just get a lot of people who want to I think it's a spiritual attack Christians will turn on themselves and anyone who's worked in a church knows this the worst part of it is the fans or the follow the fellowship turning on the pastors the staff the you know what I mean we cannibalize ourselves as Christians and I think that's a spiritual that's a spiritual attack it's like like you know this gets into people's heads and they cause Division and they cause people to hate each other and they cause just they just they so disent in the church so you know I always try to encourage people to like just don't be that don't do that you guys are producing content you're providing a place for people to gather and it's like don't take away don't give to the church give to Gods uh give to the kingdom of heaven don't take away from it and don't don't destroy it if you don't like it go somewhere else but you know I think that uh there is some burden so it's good to have friendships and this and Darren went to Peru with us yeah that's right he did you didn't Mo we hold that against you next time yeah next time bring the boys blurry creatures.com you can listen to them wherever you listen to podcast and um you have a book coming Yeah couple weeks couple weeks should be June 11th commentary by Tim alberino so we we are doing a live event in Nashville too if you want to come August 3rd there is tickets available for we're doing like a paranormal round with like four other big podcasts that are kind of in our vein it's it's called Squat and uh how fun is that you can go to squat tell.com or our website and get tickets to that too so if you want to see it see it live it's great got a few things still out there cooking baby love it love what you guys are doing I appreciate you guys making time for us today if you want to know more blur creatures.com and then of of course if you want to know more about this uh the series that we're going through in the Book of Genesis scroll back through our YouTube channel you can listen to the previous teachings we're going to be back in Genesis 7 I believe this Sunday Darren will be back with us and if you have any emails uh or any questions that you want to email us let's send those to Darren this week Darren conduit church.com he'll be glad to get back with you on those but thank you for join joining the deeper podcast with us today [Music]

Channel: Conduit Church

Views: 7,729

Keywords: Conduit, Franklin, spring hill, darren tyler, non-denominational, bible, mission, teaching, jesus church, worshiponline, onlineworship, ConduitChurch

Id: U8KQ6JEiyYg

Length: 65min 59sec (3959 seconds)

Published: Wed May 29 2024