David and Kristi

okay yeah okay okay we don't do very many zoom meetings but um we appreciate our time with you i wish you could see your wife oh she's um [Laughter] maybe one day we will um we're just going to jump right into the questions that we had for you that i sent you yeah okay number two we we kind of covered yesterday i believe uh can the devil know our thoughts and how can we overcome that i think we covered that if you want to add more to that you can what do you think no i don't think i covered that there's a lot of questions there to get through in an hour so yeah okay so honey go ahead okay let's start with one okay so uh how can we minister to our youth and young adults today what should we be teaching them i think to be honest rather than trying to teach them you just want to help them engage for themselves part of the problem in previous generations is they have been teachers of information but not mentors of how to live um and so i would be encouraging youth even children young adults um how to engage for themselves how to hear god's voice helping them in activations engaging them in that opening up that realm for them and then let them do what god shows them to do part of the problem is that the church systems have really recruited people for their systems to be the next generation of leaders or whatever title it has but we want people to fulfill their destiny so we help them to engage with god who will reveal their destiny for them and then they will find that they are content with that they they know who they are you know so basically very simple just help them to engage with god engage the father and then if they've if be there to support their questions or if they've got questions about what they're experiencing then you can help them with that but don't tell them what to do and don't um tell them who they should be yeah it's all about helping them discover who they really are really okay wow wow wow that was a lot that was a lot because as you were speaking so many things read through my mind uh when i was being brought up while i was catholic but uh when i became a when i switched over to protestant and started to go to bible school and learn you know we learned to for spiritual laws and all that stuff but i look now looking back at it it was it was very religious and legalistic to me i i know now where i went wrong they didn't teach relationship they taught principles and do's and don'ts and that really hurt me rather than help me um um okay so how do we read the old testament and what should we look out for personally i wouldn't bother reading the old testament at all okay why because it's not written for us it was written for another culture who were following another religion judaism is not christianity without jesus it is a totally different and false religion it never did work the old covenant failed jesus fulfilled it in the new covenant so why would we want to be reading the old testament part of the problem even the bible itself the bible has become almost the first fourth person of god and is treated as god it really isn't and i'm not really convinced well i don't really believe that god wanted us to have a fixed rigid cannon of scripture as soon as that took place they stopped recording what god was saying and god then spoke through mostly the mystics who were willing to listen to him and record what he was saying without putting it into a religious structure so if you read the old testament can the holy spirit speak through it yeah of course he can the holy spirit can speak through anything through movies from tv books anything i mean the holy spirit wants to speak and wants to reveal truth but primarily jesus didn't say you know to read a book he said to hear my voice yeah and that voice was not through a book because they didn't have a book you know they had the old which he'd already come and actually said you've heard it said i say unto you so he already was challenging their concepts of god as found in the old testament and particularly as found in the traditions of the rabbis and part of the problem the change there was a huge change even in jesus's day from what there originally was with moses because the rabbis and the religious teachers who had taken the law and added all of their other stuff to it to produce a which failed it didn't work it just produced legalism and law and jesus came to undo all that and to fulfill it you know it is fulfilled in the new government so everything that was there which was that which was a promise of god is fulfilled in christ because all the promises of god are fulfilled in christ so we don't need those any of those old testament scriptures to tell us what the promises are because they're in christ and we are in christ and christ is in us so we don't need it anymore and we've got forty thousand denominations all arguing over what the bible says yes that is cause all it's done is cause division is created denominationalism let's start arguing over a book and let's start being one with a person yeah and when we're one with a person we find we will be in relationship and we'll love each other because we will receive love i don't think the bible primarily helps us to receive love i'm not saying god can't use it won't use it does use it in other in some places it's the only option he's got because people aren't listening to him so they only believe he can speak to them through the bible so he will but the problem is he is trying to speak to them through something that they already have a framework of belief which most of the time actually stops them hearing what he's really saying because they already frame what they believe the bible says and therefore the holy spirit has a as a difficulty in revealing truth when they already think they know what the truth is conformational bias is a very powerful thing you know and everything conforms to what you already believe it says rather than actually listening to something with an open heart an open mind for the spirit to speak directly and of course you know we have direct access so why go through another mediator yes and the bible has become a mediator now i know it's a frame of reference for a lot of people and i use it in that way to open up the reality for people to say well this is the fulfillment of that and this is where we are yes but you know i would not i don't use that myself i don't you read the bible for god to speak to me and i don't read the bible as part of my time with god why would i read a book about someone when i'm talking to somebody right right right so it changes everything back to relationship and moves it away from study and theology theology is the study of god in the bible if you didn't have the bible there would be no theology books we would just have testimony of relationship and that's all we need so everyone should have a book it should be the book of david in the book of christian the book of mike we should all be a book which is a testimony of our relationship with god not reading things that were written to people 4 000 years ago and even the new testament was written to mostly to the people of the day that they were in it really wasn't speaking for us to us today it was speaking to them is there some universal truth in there absolutely you know but they used it because they were afraid of people choosing to do their own thing so they needed something that they could use to control people and before they had the bible they used the creeds here is what our beliefs were and you have to believe these things if you're going to be part of our group none of that is what god intends he just wants us to relate together in family i agree oh wow wow now we know that there are many promises in the new testament are those promises conditional no you can't you can't have a promise which is conditional because then it's based on works you have to earn it all the promises of god are yes and amen in christ and he has been given to us without condition because god loves us you know that's why jesus came because of the he so loved the world there weren't conditions placed on isla well i only love some of the world because they're the people who follow me or i only love some of the world because they behave this way it is totally unconditional and everyone has already been included in christ and reconciled now they just don't know it and the holy spirit came into everybody all mankind on the day of resurrection yes when jesus breathed into his disciples in the same way that god grieved into adam as representative of the whole of mankind the holy spirit went into everyone and spiritually they became alive if you like born from above just as adam was born from above the first time on the resurrection day jesus enabled everyone to be born so they're already reconciled in christ they don't have to do something to be reconciled we just have to help them know what jesus has already done rather than what he will do if they do something that's not grace that's works most of what evangelical christianity preaches as the gospel is a gospel of works if you pray this prayer if you get baptized if you go and do the altar call if if if and that if if you don't then god won't well god has already yes so we just help people to realize what god's already done not what he will do if they do something now you've also got to look at the new testament and say it was written for those who were going through the transition in the generation that jesus said everything would be finished and he would return and he did return everything was fulfilled and finished and now we don't have prophecy to be fulfilled now god may speak and god may still be fulfilling things he's speaking today but that's not the bible that's him speaking yeah and of course he does he does tell people things and he reveals things and he wants people to to know the truth um but it isn't biblical prophecy we're in the period of the restoration of all things where the kingdom of god is filling the earth yes there is no future biblical event yes i i run against many christians who they love god and they're sincere about god and many people believe well okay jesus abolished sin and death at the cross and so therefore and i see two different camps one camp says well then that's all we need all we need to do is just rely on that he died for us on the cross he abolished sin and death and so that's it we we could do whatever we want and then there's another group that says no he took care of sin and death at the cross but we do we also have a responsibility could you expand on that well there's a difference between receiving what jesus has already done and then carrying on doing your own thing and i would genuinely say if someone has really received what jesus has done they wouldn't want to carry on doing their own thing because they'll realize what that brought them into in the first place so they want to avoid that and and find a different path the tree of life rather than a tree of knowledge of good and evil and yes there is responsibility of sonship that comes along with the relationship so that is a going back to god's original mandate to to man to be fruitful to multiply to fill the earth to subdue and to rule right so yes but that shouldn't be done as a you must do this as a law or under legalistic position but it should be an outworking of our who we are we are sons and sons rule right sons overcome some engage creation to bring freedom you know that that is who we are not what we do and we've got to move away from the doing to the being right once we know who we are our being will outwork things without us trying to do something to fulfill some obligation we're not obligated it is part of our destiny to be a son of god and be in rulership in relationship with god within the kingdom once you find your relationship with god that just becomes the outworking of that just because well if i'm seated in heavenly places that is the position of rule and authority therefore i exercise that rule authority because that's who i am i'm a son of god it isn't that we want to lay a whole lot of guilt on people because they're not doing things because then we're going to create legalism and fear because they're not doing something if you bring people into a relationship we allow the holy spirit to guide them and direct them and to change them and transform them and to renew their minds so they don't think like they did before but they're being renewed that's a work of the spirit we've taken on the role of the spirit and tried to teach people what they need to know rather than actually helping them engage so that they can find out for themselves so yeah it's all done jesus has done it all but does that mean everyone is fixed and sorted out absolutely not because people's thinking is not aligned with the mind of god yeah and true repentance is exactly that i agree with what god says with his mind his thoughts and i am aligned to those thoughts it's nothing to do with being sorry for not being aligned to his thoughts that's really just the fact that we're not yet fully aware of who we are yes which means we're still living in some aspects of lost identity wow that's so that is so powerful because i know a number of our friends um were into uh for charismatics and pentecostals who still do a lot of warfare yeah spiritual warfare and prayer they're very powerful people they're very beautiful people very aggressive we don't apprehend warfare anymore we do all our praying in heaven from heaven to earth so why do you believe they feel they need to do warfare because it's it's a deception that misrepresents what god is like and sees everything as an enemy anything then becomes an object of we must destroy this rather than restore it they don't understand the nature of restoration therefore warfare and you know it does say you know principalities and powers and all those things and they do exist but our role is to see them restored not destroyed so in our when they're affecting our lives and when you're looking about that personal aspect of being influenced by negative things of course we want to overcome that we want to overcome it in our own lives so that we're not subject to it we're not influenced by it but that doesn't mean we go around destroying things that are against us jesus didn't if you actually look at what he did in delivering people his focus was on the person not that which was delivered of and he never destroyed anything and even those you know demonic spirits that were in legion um you know they asked don't send us into the abyss whatever and he didn't and there's no record that he sent anyone anywhere or destroyed any being well how could he in a sense of when he's life yeah so there is a sense where we need to be persistent and we need to be willing to be transformed and do whatever it takes for that to take place by cooperation with what god is doing and that means we don't just accept the status quo as well this is it i'm just stuck here i can't do anything because we can because we're overcomers but the way we overcome is the issue and you know all the pulling down principalities and powers and binding this and binding that it's made no difference on the earth right and unless god tells you to do something then you're just following some sort of formula and there was revelation that was released in the in the 90s and whatever which i think made it made people aware that there was a supernatural realm and that realm affects this realm and i think that was the point of the revelation not that we should go fighting against it or try and destroy it but be aware of it in preparation for restoring it wow that makes a huge difference so prayer intercession i don't do any of it you know i'm not praying asking god to do anything which is primarily what prayer generally is for me i'm doing what god has called me to do and i make declarations and decrees from heaven to outwork that i'm not asking god i mean the last time i asked god to do something in that sense in a prayer he just said why are you asking me to do what i've called you to do so i stopped asking him to do that now sometimes things are going on in my life and things are happening that i just need grace and mercy for and i go and sit on his lap and i go and engage the throne of grace and i just share my heart with him and he he does what he does to comfort me and to give me what i need but i'm not asking him to go and do this go and do that go and because i know he'll direct me if he wants me to do anything in those situations and he'll show me jesus only did what he saw the father doing so if i've got an intimate relationship with a father he'll show me what he's doing in and around my life that i can cooperate with him and engage with you know i don't have to call out on him to do something in that type of way and the same with spiritual warfare intercession which tends to go together it's a lot of wailing and stuff really which is like pleading with god to do something that he already wants to do anyway but he doesn't want to do it independently of us he wants to do it through us so let's stop asking god to do something and let's engage god so he empowers us to do what he's called us to do in relationship with him and in rest and a lot of the spiritual warfare and stuff i was aware of i mean it was just so violent so aggressive where do you see jesus like that it's more of an old covenant expression of their view of what god was like to destroy whole civilizations and nations and people and all of that which is not what god was like it may have been what they thought he was like and how they acted thinking that he would excuse them doing that or direct them to do it but actually he never did he couldn't have because jesus never did and jesus was the express image of the father and revealed the father to us he didn't do that what did he do forgive them for they know what they're doing bless your enemies right there was no forgive everybody you know everyone and everything so there was no concept of well i'm going to destroy this group of people well if you forgive anybody there's no need to destroy them you want the best for them yes so that changes the whole perspective on prayer intercession warfare anything we do do from a perspective of dealing with the legal rights the enemy might have in our lives or in other people's lives or in our community or whatever we do judicially using the authority of the court system of heaven to bring judgments that will bring about change and yes we can do that but even in doing it that's not to bring retribution and revenge and judgment on people in a negative way it is always to bring about life it's always to bring about good because god brings good out of everything that's his desire yeah i had to rethink uh a lot about uh a year ago spiritual warfare because i know that in doing spiritual warfare like all i got was warfare yeah but i also learned last year that the reason i was doing warfare was because i didn't understand my identity and you and as i began to learn that i saw that my enemy you usually worked through people and i didn't know how to restore people which is really simple and that's just to to love them i i think and i mean that's one that's probably the bottom line but i don't think we know how to restore because we're probably either immature in that area or or still need to grow in understanding how we're supposed to restore each other through love the only example i could use is um when we are offended by others uh that are aggressive especially you know prayer warriors and things like that they're aggressive in that area um what i learned to do now is just listen to them i don't have to agree with them but and it's hard for me not to say what i feel and believe so i i just really say you know i i think that god will show you more if you look at things this way how about looking at things this way so i give them questions uh that causes them to think uh i try to diffuse those those problems those arguments but it's very difficult to restore when their mindset is just on warfare i don't know it is yeah but then you know it's not our responsibility isn't restore people that's gods we just need to point them to god so they can be restored you know and that means that yeah we don't get into contention or arguments or conflict or and we don't lose relationship with people because we disagree over different things but what the what it does mean that we do need to have wisdom in what we say and when we say it yeah and make sure we don't have to say everything at one time you know sometimes it's better to drip drip drip and demonstrate the change in life our lives so that people will see the the what's happening with us in that way and therefore be asking questions rather than are trying to change their theology or doctrine right right because a lot of questions i get are to uh well what about the battle in the second heaven that we can't see there is real warfare going on so what do you think about that mike well a there isn't really a second heaven you know it talks about third heaven in corinthians um and that really meant from a part of the problem is we read it in english and we suddenly think third heaven there must be a first and the second of them right well of course that yes there is the earth and yes there's the atmosphere around the earth which is really what we're talking about when we're looking at that but is there a battle going on like a war that those angels like you know the books of i don't know peretti and frank peretti and all that you know left behind all that no it's not like that are there angels and are there fallen angels absolutely and do god's angels do things to oppose what the fallen angels are doing yes but they want those fallen angels to be restored so they're not going to go and destroy them or fight them you know they want them restored they are their pin if you like they're you know of their order so they don't want them to be restored and it's not like there's this great everything is spiritual and there's all this stuff it just focuses again on the negative all the time you know the reality is we create an atmosphere around our own lives filling it with love joy and peace and living in rest therefore we don't need to be concerned about anything else the more we focus on the negative the more the negative has opportunity to engage us i don't give a second thought i don't give anything a second thought when i'm engaged legislatively maybe in the earth shield or engaged in the realms of heaven in a legislative way i become aware of what's going on and yes i can uh introduce things into that realm which is light and truth that may uh have effect on that realm but primarily if that is going to change then the the beings that are involved in that need to be set free so they can actually fulfill their original function rather than the function that they're actually fulfilling right now because they were all deceived into following that pathway you know they didn't choose to follow that pathway because they thought it was going to end up in something bad and they were all going to end up the way they are now they they thought that it was going to be something which brought them into their position of authority or whatever it might have been um but they they didn't they were deceived and therefore we need to help them find the truth of their original identity their original purpose and then help them be restored so they begin to fulfill that and that that changes really the the concept so i'm not going to come against something in the same spirit that it's operating in which is what warfare does i'm going to come in the opposite spirit i'm going to come in love so love wins love overcomes love conquers so if i engage them in love it totally throws them because they're expecting of what fight they're expecting to be you know railed at and bound and told that they're gonna end up being destroyed or whatever you yeah and it takes quite a lot to actually convince them the opposite because there's a lot of people still doing all that stuff making all those decorations and you know treating them in that way now fallen angels are different from demonic spirits not the same thing fallen angels are created beings created with a purpose by god who have been led astray and have been deceived and are now functioning mostly in the opposite spirit that they were created for right we need to remind them of who they originally were bring that memory out into the light and help them to receive forgiveness because most of them will now feel totally unworthy and they believe they're only going to be destroyed you know because that's what they've been told and they do feel unworthy because they they there is a it may be buried under layers of shame and darkness but it's still there and you can help them to res find it again and then accept the forgiveness that will bring them back into restoration you know that's a much better way of engaging and seeing the battle is a battle for restoration not a battle for destruction so you're over trying to overcome the obstacles to restoration that they are believing or having it's they need their minds renewed the same way as other people do yes i'm just gonna say we should restore them just like we would restore anyone that's uh fallen uh by you know in grace or whatever um number nine question we have on here i'm gonna let my wife read this scripture okay the scripture is go ahead and uh ii corinthians 10 4 and 5 from the king james version for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty through god to the pulling down of strongholds casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of god and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of christ and so the reason we're asking you this question what your thoughts are on this passage is because a lot of christians that we know hold to that and they they strongly believe in this warfare mentality which we know now it's again has to do with their own identity and reading into something uh spiritually they become super spiritual and make something that's not okay i mean you gotta understand that the context of where the new testament was written was in the context of the roman empire and war so we don't have that today primarily right so if that was written today will probably be written in the context of reprogramming a computer because actually what it's really saying is and it's using things like weapons of warfare but it's really saying that this is not a physical war this is not about going to war against someone but this is about renewing the mind this is about dealing with everything which is a lie everything which is against the truth everything which misrepresents god every concept of our thinking which is not aligned to who god is and the truth so it's it's the same thing as romans 12 be renewed you know be transformed by the renewing of your mind it's just another way of putting it to a group of people who were in the midst of conflict i mean conflict was going on everywhere you know and so it was trying to get them to see because it's all about the mind if you think about strongholds what are strongholds they are powerful ways of thinking which are resistant to change yes imaginations well there do not lean to your own understanding so it's the thing that you have which is not the truth but is like a vain imagination it is something which is an illusion we would use probably the the word illusion today don't believe illusions every high thing well that against the knowledge of god so anything which is not aligned to the truth of the knowledge of god a who he is but be what he's revealing then that exalts itself above the truth so it says which is exactly what where it came from i will ascend to be like god i will be seated lucifer's i will statements that's really what it's saying um and therefore then is a an indication that when we have a thought we align that thought with the mind of christ the thoughts of god if you like does this align with the truth yes then i accept that and i embrace it no then i reject it it's just simply saying that so in other words if you're using the computer analogy again are there lines of code in the program which need debugging another way of putting it so they're they're our thinking which needs to be and that's that's how you can talk to younger people because they get that if you've got bugs in the code it makes the program not work well you know it's like windows is being debugged all the time and we're the people who debug it for them they should never put out an operating system that in fixed you know so they use us as guinea pigs to debug it so in reality it's just that where our minds are being renewed and the lines of code which aren't the truth which may be lies are being removed and replaced by the truth well that's interesting because i as i speak to christians and i talk to them about the bible they tell me well no god is a god of judgment look at all the people got killed in the old testament and i i shake my head at it and i go i i don't think so god didn't kill anybody so yeah i mean essentially yeah i mean how could god kill anybody and then tell us not to kill anybody right it's like how could god tell us to forgive everybody and not forgive everybody he's only asking us to be like him and he's a god of love you know read one corinthians 13 about love love is never going to kill anybody yeah no now there are consequences of people's behavior that causes them to reap what they've sown and that allows the enemy to bring things on their lives because what does the enemy do according to jesus rob kill and destroy god never robs kills and destroys so anything you ever see where there's a robbing a killing and a destroying it's the enemy and it's not god yes we're going to change gears now and ask you a different question let me go ahead okay um how powerful is communion and what does it do i mean i alluded to this i think in a email that we had um the community is very powerful and jesus said if you eat my flesh drink my blood you will not die so communion really is actually to do with not just spiritual death but physical death and therefore physical health and wholeness and completeness um and yeah it says in 1 thessalonians 5 23 that spirit soul and body will be preserved blameless will be sanctified and made whole preserved blameless at the presence of the lord not the coming of the lord as it's translated it's a wrong translation in his presence there is a renewing a refining a transforming uh making us whole spirit soul and body therefore communion is entering into the life that's contained within god within jesus that becomes our life and becomes a transformatory process as we take on life any death in us gets transformed in our physical bodies within the cells of our bodies within our dna within our identity everything within our minds everything which is patterned after the tree of the knowledge of good and evil um which is not the pathway of the tree of life communion is really living the pathway of the tree of life in fellowship and relationship with god in that way so originally i would take communion as an act and every time i took communion and i began to take communion every day in that act i would then take on the life that the father revealed to me and i used the declarations which you you you said you use um as my way of expressing what the father revealed he was doing when i took communion so it was a transforming my whole being and you know i did the second set which is really more about the mind um to help people see that you know our minds really we need deconstruction and renewal of the mind as well which is in the same process um is it powerful yeah absolutely it is through the the gospel life and immortality have been brought to light we just need to embrace it and to find what it really is now it doesn't stop at the physical act which can become a ritual it can become a religious exercise right if we're if we don't find the life in it which is what it's becoming a lot of the church i will take this little wafer and have this little whatever sip of this and you know um but do i believe in transubstantiation no it's not jesus's actual body and actual blood it's a symbol which represents the life that's contained within christ that we partake of when we receive him into ourselves daily when we open the door of our first love gate and welcoming in you know that's you know it's like he's knocking on the door let me in let me fill you let me bring my life into you and when we do rivers of living water flow into our innermost being which is the life which is a life that's flowing out of heaven from the river of life so that brings life into us which brings transformation into us at a level which goes down to the very fabric of our being if we embrace it but if you don't believe it you're not receiving the life of it that's why our minds need to be renewed to accept and believe what it is so i moved on from doing it as an act every day to actually whenever i partook of any food or drink whatever water i would see that as i'm receiving your life this is coming into me to nourish me not just physically but this is a sign of me taking on your whole being into my being to bring about change and transformation to my being so every day i open my first love gate and i welcome the presence of father son and spirit into my being into communion i'm entering into communion with them it's not an act it's a state of being so then i went on further than that into okay this isn't just when i eat physical food actually even when i breathe even taking oxygen into my body is a source of energy and food to me and that's what my cells live on without oxygen the brain stops working without oxygen our cells won't function so it's also the breath that we very take on so even like as god breathed into adam as jesus breathes into disciples every time i breathe i can also be conscious that this breath contains life his life his living energy which is in me and therefore i'm continually in communion you know in a state of being that i dwell in and remain in and live in and then that life is a continual process of transforming me changing me and bringing me all that i need you know now i i know yes i could live without eating physical food um because i receive life from him but i choose to eat physical food because he at physical food and i actually like physical food so you know it's not what i know i didn't don't need it in that sense so i you know i've gone for period extended periods without eating um and it's not a real issue um but i do believe that communion goes much deeper than the act into a state of communion where i am constantly in communion and fellowship with him continues a continual abiding dwelling place yeah that i just remind myself of either by taking that or eating whatever our breathing but it's now a state of being if i didn't remind myself it wouldn't mean it wasn't happening but it is always good to remind ourselves of the state we're in and the place we're in because then it connects you to it and it's intentional and i think a lot of things just need to be intentional and you could take communion it'd be nothing but a piece of bread or wafer and a drop of wine or juice because that's all the intention is when you engage it but when you're engaging it with intention so i engage life every day with intention and i am energized to live that way so i live intentionally not just haphazardly or randomly i'm intentional but that's not means that i'm in legalism because i'm at rest yes this is life this is my relationship but i'm intentional about the relationship it's not i'm not gonna take it for granted or not engage in it because the relationship is only engaging you know if you don't have you can't have a relationship with someone you don't relate with right right it's an act it's a thing you have to do and once you do it you are then in that state of being in a relationship if you stop doing it then that relationship changes yeah because you're not engaged in it actively so there's a sense where my state of being in that relationship is continually at work because i'm actually in that relationship i'm dwelling i'm abiding in his presence continually he never leaves me or forsakes me either so there's a continual thing that i just intentionally engage yeah we we take um we read the the dna prayer before we take communion and there is something supernaturally that taking communion does because we feel it in our bones our attitude our heart our lives we know that is changing us and we don't do it religiously actually anything we put in our mouth whether we it's food or drink we we just say the blood of christ or the body of christ and and we know that it's giving life and when you talked about breathing we we totally believed in the yag vaihadve understand that a revelation is just deeper than we think psychologically it's just deeper than we think but um let me ask you another question mike i know time is getting short um do you believe let's well let me just ask it a little bit differently because this could be a very touchy question um we have a lot of prophet friends that prophesy men and women and we don't necessarily agree with them because we don't feel the heart of god in the things that they're speaking we can't really minister to them if they're saying they had dreams and visions and god told them these things how much do you think mike of what uh some prophets i can't say all are saying are actually from god or maybe perhaps maybe familiar spirits some things can be familiar spirits it's more likely from their own spirit or from their own soul it's more like their soul is aligned with a particular way of thinking that they are imagining really that god is saying now there can be a lion spirit and sometimes god allows a lion spirit to speak through the mouth of a prophet to reveal where the prophet's heart is and to reveal to people you can't trust this person check it out with me you know and that does take place but primarily i don't really think those people are trying to deceive everybody or anybody right but they are part of the problem is that the prophetic movement has bought into a model that means that they it provides their livelihood because they prophesy and they do conferences prophesying about stuff over people or into their lives and everything else if anyone is a five-fold minister type prophet then they should be equipping the saints for hearing god themselves not telling them what god's saying you know and i think it's developed into something it was never intended to do a i think most prophecy in the way in which it's seen in the bible ended when the old covenant ended because there was no need when the holy spirit was with people now in that interim god was using people who had no concept of who he was because they were from a gentile background and really didn't understand anything about anybody anything they just encountered him um they were helping people to come to a realization of what they needed and it was comfort consolation edification it wasn't telling people what to do or what not to do or warning people primarily it was to help people come into a relationship with god which brought them comfort and brought them to so it was like hey god loves you you know well that's not much of a prophetic thing that's an amazing prophetic statement for those people who don't know god's love you know now you know all of the stuff which has come up nowadays and everything else i think a lot of the prophetic movement has become politicized yeah so their agenda is political and they are trying to change things through a political system and therefore supporting political systems and becoming more and more militant about it that i i was you know i found shocking really over the last election all the stuff that went on there um the people were telling people to take up arms and prepare for civil war and all of that stuff it's like god is the god of peace you know this is the prince of peace why why are you promoting war yes just does not it does not make any sense logically and certainly from a spiritual sense it doesn't make any sense but those prophets refuse to back down and they still believe donald trump is going to be president sometime you know and they're not they're not backing down they're still backing that up with more and more stuff it didn't happen every date that they prophesied was something was going to happen it didn't happen there are a few who've recognized that and have come out publicly and acknowledged that they were wrong they have been vilified by others because it challenges their position because they don't want to admit they're wrong because if they admit they're wrong they're admitting that what they heard did not come from god that challenge is their whole ministry because they've built their ministry on we can hear god and we can tell you what he says yeah i see that a lot today especially many who are having very strong prophetic dreams uh they say well god gave me this dream they they speak in tongues for three or four hours a day and uh their dreams are really what i see their dreams are either a fabrication of their own soul yeah or maybe some some of it is familiar spirits but i believe that i'm i'm hearing god speak to me saying most of that is political and not me but you know when you say in the name of the lord and you go on and then when you do when they do prophesy things do happen i'm thinking you know when things like that do happen i can't really tell whether it's a familiar spirit or god did show them something in the future that's coming politically it's really hard to just so we don't judge i mean some things are a mixture yeah and some people do have insight uh and sometimes the holy spirit gives people a gift of something to reveal something to them i find that most of their interpretation of what he's revealed is based on their own opinions and their own framework of belief and so even when i do recognize that sounds like god then they start trying to explain what god was trying to say right i just think they should have just shut up and let interpret it themselves rather than telling them what god said yes because actually as soon as they start trying to frame it with their own understanding they're already framing it out of a belief system which is probably nothing to do with what god was trying to say so you know there are people you know prophesied oh well california is going to fall into the sea because of the judgment on hollywood and all that it's not yeah i agree with you it is not gonna happen yeah god is not bringing judgment on the u.s it's like why would he bring judgment on a country where a lot of people acknowledge that he's god they don't say well he's going to bring judgment on this country in darkest africa who or or some tribe in you know the east that are headhunters who've got no concept of god whatsoever and are a i mean you know america's an easy target for because obviously it's a big country and a lot of things go on in that country which are not good things but god is never going to bring a negative judgment he's already forgiven people for what they've done anyway he wants to bring good out of it all so you know i don't relate to any of this sort of type of stuff that you know it's a soaks to blood moons and oh no we're gonna have another this and the other now god warned me of the shaking that was gonna take place in you know last year uh a couple of years ahead and told me to prepare for it right you know but it wasn't i knew it wasn't god's judgment that was coming i knew it was a shaking that would bring about good you know ultimately now god has not brought covert or any of that stuff he's not brought any of that you know so we've got to be so careful it was like years ago in the 80s oh god brought aids to judge gay people it's like no god didn't you know it's like oh so god also judged hemophiliacs who took on blood they had i mean because they got they got it as well you know no god is not like that right things do happen there are things which are sometimes genetically engineered deliberately and sometimes there are things that which happen because of a fallen world and we're subject to it well you know the world is i mean we're not we don't have to be subject to those things ourselves so i would be very careful about prophetic stuff i don't listen to i don't claim to be a prophet i'm just sharing the things that god has spoken to me about i'm not telling people they have to believe it or not believe it it's just up to people to weigh themselves um and ultimately i want to be an oracle of god but i want to do that in a creative way which is not talking to people about what god says right what is it about speaking with the voice of god to bring about change and transformation wow wow which is really what it's about being an oracle is being the voice of god which actually light responds to creation responds to and bring about a new reality you know it's like just prophesying things and anyone who's prophesying doom and gloom and judgment you just know it's not coming from god right coming out of an eschatological framework that believes there is going to be destruction in the future the world will be destroyed by fire no it won't why so a lot of that is just because it's coming out of a perspective and therefore yeah they they're saying things i mean some people prophesy nice things because they just want to bless people right you know whenever i i mean i used to go to a lot of prophetic conferences and things years ago and and i was always like well if they really speak the truth if anyone prophesies over me i want the truth you know i don't want this nice stuff i want the truth no one ever pro i mean sometimes i went to college i was struggling with things in my life or things were happening i wanted those people to speak into those situations none of them ever did yeah i never ever did yeah primarily they just prophesied oh god they'll do this and you'll be this and and you know and some of it you know i think in my whole life and probably i've had i don't know hundreds of prophetic words over my life right i only resonate with two of them you know you know because i thought i think they came from god and god was inspiring something in me and i resonated with them the rest of them there's there's a mixture in there and i'm not saying they weren't true that god loves me and he wants good things about me that's true you know but actually was it really speaking something that no one else could have said yeah i mean you know some of this stuff anyone can say you know and i've done it myself you know where where i've spoken things and where i've seen things but most of what i used to do was try and call peoples at destiny and inspire them right to be who god intended them to be by encouraging them rather than yeah and i stopped prophesying over people you know six or seven years ago simply because and i and i could you know a spirit of prophecy would come on me i could prophesy for hours you know i'd prophesy until everyone had a prophecy but god spoke to me and said look you know this is self-defeating because you're trying to teach people to engage me but they're engaging me through you you're becoming a mediator so stop ministering that way so i stopped laying hands on people and praying for people that way because i did not want to be a mediator when i am teaching people to engage god for themselves so someone says will you prophesy over me today and i would check it out with god but primarily what i would say is well let's go and engage god and let's let's see what god wants to say to you directly yeah so you don't have to have a meeting so when i'm not there tomorrow you can still ask god and god will still speak to you directly without the need to go through a mediator but you know i i would say you know particularly in the us yeah the whole prophetic movement has become very politicized yeah i agree mike and i think we don't have i think we're out of time but i just want to make a statement to maybe close with that um i i am guilty of that as well i mean i prophesied over hundreds of people in my lifetime how much of that was actually the lord i don't know how much of that was actually from the heart of god i don't really know although i may have been my intention was was correct it wasn't politically motivated it wasn't financially motivated but what i see is that the church has it wrong ephesians 4 was meant for god to raise up the fifo ministry to lead people to christ not to give them all the answers yeah and to help them seek god for themselves just like you said i don't prophesy over anybody today but i do get lots of prophetic words for for people because of the prophetic gift that we have but we don't take claim to owning that because the lord just showed us that unless we have the heart of god in a matter that pretty much is either our own soul realm or could be something else so i i think that if we seek the heart of god and ask god to reveal himself to us mostly to help us understand our own identity uh so that we can walk the sons of god and walk right with god i think that's really where we should start um do you want to add anything to that in closing um no i think you know it's absolutely right everything we should be doing is helping people to engage god for themselves you got one other question there which i didn't get to answer which is the same thing really how do you lead people to christ the right way right what do you say i don't say anything anymore i just open up a door of opportunity for them to engage so i would lead them in an encounter and and get them to do exactly that picture a door you know jesus is knocking on the door open it the opening is a choice close your eyes picture a door and make a choice to open the door whatever happens after they open the door is up to what god jesus father wants to do that means they have a testament encounter they're not relying on praying a prayer me getting them to do something they have encountered god so god wants to meet with people we need to be those who facilitate that meeting that's all we need to do okay it's really simple and yes we can be inspired by each person may respond to a different way of engaging that and we can be creative listening to the spirit on how we would engage that person and what sort of activation that person might best be open to but primarily it's still we want them to engage god in in a real way and then they can continue that that that would and it's the same thing it's all about helping people to discover who god is by encountering him and then discover who they are through the encounter wow that was powerful yeah you know i've got loads of testimonies of where that has been so effective that i couldn't of you know yes i could have had a word of knowledge and i could have said to somebody right but it's so much better when god speaks to the person and does that stuff himself yes yeah i see that because a lot of this stuff today it's about self again it goes back to the dui industry of life you know i can do this i can do that sure i can get a word for you i mean it's like really yeah why don't you just let god speak to people and yeah well i don't know how to end this because we are logged on first uh what do we do like i mean i can i'll i'll stop it um and essentially i mean i'll send you a link to the recordings probably so i'll start thank you so much thank you welcome i love you guys tell you what

Channel: Mike Parsons

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Id: 0VMe8YKnXB0

Length: 62min 40sec (3760 seconds)

Published: Tue Oct 05 2021