Hell? Journey Testimony Part 1 - Supernatural Mentoring Monday 12th March 2018 Washington

listen let's just make a start I don't anyone else is coming but morning Henry no throw open anyone you got anything you want to talk about specifically any questions you want to ask stuff three views of Hill and I I just happened to run through that this week with a friend of mine I wasn't with him I was just listening to him do some teaching what how did you how did you come to the restoration of all things versus if I if I understand the first the first one is traditional you burn forever second one's you're burned up I mean you you annihilated and the third one is restoration how did you might how did you come to that well it was it was a process of the closer I got to God the more face-to-face encounters with God revealed what he was like and the more I just couldn't equate what my experiences of him were in love and these views which just didn't seem to be like I was experiencing so I I had cognitive dissonance so I have these encounters God reveals himself then all of a sudden I'm looking up yeah but this doesn't this doesn't line up with what I believe so now I've got a choice am I gonna go with what I believe or am I gonna go off with my experience of God and what he's revealed himself as and so this obviously created some tension within me and I then went and said well okay well why do I believe what I believe where did those belief systems come from so I go back to the Bible and then I find that I go back to the original words that were used and then I sort of thought wow well these aren't these aren't me what I thought they meant when I go back I'm looking at them English and then I go back into the Greek or the Hebrew and fixie the Greek side of it new Testament and so well this dis didn't say that so I'm now starting to get challenged well we´d how do I where do I come to a decision is it gonna be based on my understanding of the Bible which was thrown into confusion by just so many words which I believe are missed translations of the original Word and I so said to Kabul where do I go with this and he said well you you need to use love as the framework will you make every decision based on because I am loved and if everything that you believed does not align itself with love and the love that I've revealed to you as then you need to then be willing to let go of those views so I went back into obviously with hell found that it wasn't a an actual Greek or Hebrew word it's a German Germanic Norse word and various different views of where it came from but one of them being the North God hell a of the underworld and different things and there were all sorts of beliefs Stephanie in English we've used it in English to create an image of something and most of what people's image of it is comes from Dante's Inferno and you know hieronymus Bosch's pictures paintings more than what the Bible actually says and that's what I discovered the Bible doesn't actually say what I thought it said on what I've always been taught it said it doesn't say that when you go back to the original language it doesn't actually say it and you know the King James Version of the Bible will have 56 occurrences of the word hell in old and new Testament 56 occurrences the new American Standard Bible has 13 the Youngs literal translation of the Bible and other literal translation was just used the actual words as none so so well what are these words what what do they mean so you have four words which are translated in the English as hell Tartarus which is just used once and in that one occurrence is talking about angels effectively who have been imprisoned in Tartarus awaiting judgment so they were the watcher angels who fell in the original thing in the Bible at the flood I guess before the flood so that definitely and then what it says there is there awaiting judgment well you can't torment someone who's awaiting judgment that will be totally unfair that's like saying what we're gonna put these people to death before we've had the court case to discover whether they'll guilty or not so they're awaiting judgment and they're described as being in hell well they're not in Hell there in the place awaiting judgment which is described as Tartarus or tartar ooh in in Greek so one occurrence of that I think it's in Peter so then the other words are Sheol which is the place the grave or the pit literally and if you go back into the original Hebrew it says grave or pit if you go into a concordance or a say Strong's Concordance of that word it will say grave pit and then add hell on the end and hell is put there because of the understanding of the interpreter not because it was there in the original it had no Hebrew meaning of torment or punishment or anything else it was where people went after they died to Sheol the place of the Dead the grave and it could be just the grave in context while they went into the grave so we buried them in the grave well putting someone in the grave in putting them in hell the pit obviously has a meaning which is deeper so if they're not just being put into the earth they're going down under the earth somewhere so that you have that concept but again you don't get the concept of punishment or torment or torture that was added later when the Hebrew started to take on Greek culture and the Greek language they started to adopt some other thoughts about it and then you've got the obviously Hades which is the Greek equivalent of Sheol and that literally means a place of being out of you out of sight so when you die you're no longer in view to the real world and that's the root meaning but we then have added on obviously Hades being the Greek god of the underworld so that again has this sort of picture of a mythology to it and then you have Gehenna and a Gehenna Jesus used Hades I think about eleven times in different connotations and then Jesus used Gehenna I think 13 times and virtually every time he spoke of Guyana he talked about he was talking to the religious leaders or the Jewish people who were you know opposing him or arguing with him wherever else and literally it's a place the Valley of Hinnom outside of Jerusalem it was their rubbish done and it was on fire had been burning for hundreds of years because it was it all the rubbish was in there continually burning it's like you know our tire mountains today some of them were on fire and they just can't possibly put them out and it was also a place where you know the rubbish decomposed so it was a place where they described it as where the fire and the worms were operating and that has a history if you go back into history where there was child sacrifice where the Valley of Hinnom was seen as a bad place because of what they did there they sacrifice even the hit even though Hebrews sacrificed their children to Molech in the valley and hidden and in Jeremiah its prophesied that this would be a place where this fire that would burn and the worm would eat the body so Jesus then uses this place which the everyone knew I mean it was everyone in the New Testament who heard Jesus talked about gana knew exactly what he meant this was the physical rubbish dump so if you said to someone like the Jewish leaders you're gonna end up in Gehenna it was totally offensive to them of course so he warned them physically if you do not change your perspective on this and follow me you're gonna end up in the rubbish dump and literally they did some of those who Jesus spoke to literally were crucified in the in AD 70 in the destruction of Jerusalem they were put into the rubbish the hundreds of thousands of them so that was a physical it was nothing to do with the future 2,000 years later you know Jesus meant it to them now then that's what he meant it was like this is where you can end up some of it was very figurative of your whole lives you think you're so righteous but your self-righteousness is gonna end up you're gonna end up losing your life so when Jesus said you know what does it benefit your son if you if you gain the whole world but lose your soul that's what he was saying to them what's the benefit of all your kingdom stuff of all your self-righteous religious beliefs if you're gonna end up in the rubbish dump so the kitty was talking about the kingdom now nothing to do with you no not now fist but then to him then now to them he was talking to them about what was going on then so if they were operating in the kingdom and he said well I'm going to take the kingdom away from you lot because you're not producing this works and I'm gonna give it to a people who will and he saw it he said well actually they know the wrath of the Covenant is coming the consequences of you breaking covenant are the curses of the Covenant of Deuteronomy 28 which were horrendous I mean you read new law me 28 yeah well that's what happened in Jerusalem they at each other's babies I mean they were eating rats and it was horrendous I mean they were in there a couple of million of them were in there now every Christian left according to Josephus there was no Christians that were left I think they all left and they went to Priya because jesus warned them to leave when you see armies coming or when you see the abomination of desolation again language going back to Daniel no things run effectively do not even stop to get your coat run and get out all that stuff has obviously been future ice-t-- well this is gonna happen when Jesus returns whatever well didn't even make any sense thinking of it that well why would you run if Jesus returns you know yeah so it actually was talking about a physical destruction of Jerusalem and the warning to his distant to all these disciples to make sure you do not get caught up into this terrible wrath to come where the Covenant of curses get released because people have refused to follow me effectively so those are the four different words that are translated hell and none of them actually mean hell in the concept that we have Eve in evangelical Christianity today and if you go back to the early church and this is so my journey in this was okay I'm looking at the words the words don't mean help and we've just put out a blog post on this the hell delusion and we're getting a lot of flack as you can imagine from more evangelical circles and religious people which is you know par for the course but just looking at the words then you've got to look at Jesus's words and his using things that people have interpreted how like parables and see well what was he talking about so when Jesus used Hades well what was he meaning and some of them are just multiplied the same story in the different Gospels there's only one story but it's spread over two or three Gospels so the number of uses isn't really different it's just applying to the same thing so Jesus told parables and he told parables to represent spiritual principles that had a meaning so one of the one of them would be has been taken to apply to the life after death which would been hey Lazarus and the rich man so the rich man he's in he's in Hades although it doesn't say that you know again it doesn't use the word Hell or Hades it just describes the rich man who is in torment and then it describes the poor man who's in Abraham's bosom now what Jesus was saying was you know he was trying to illustrate the reality of rich and poor and what the what their what they were supposed to do with poor people they weren't supposed to take all the money for themselves and I'll help anybody you know so he was he was making a point and if you take it you know if people take this literally as a literal story what Lazarus has they've got a name and therefore it must be a literal thing it can't be a parable they don't realize that Jesus got that story he didn't even make the story up he used a story that he already named new that came out of Babylon it came out of the writings when they were in Babylon so it was borrowed from another tradition and he used it to make a point and the point was nothing to do with what was going to happen after death because if you follow the story you all rich people are going to be in hell and all poor people will be in heaven well we know that in true you know so you've got to look at the what was the point of the parables and who is he talking to most of the time to the Jewish leaders so even when you read sort of things which seem really obviously talking about the few you got to realize that he was talking to them about their present and it doesn't necessarily have to be the future and most I mean I'm not a futurist when it comes to biblical interpretation so most of what Jesus was talking about was relating to 80 70 and actually most of what the New Testament was talking about was talking about 80 70 there was a warned him of what was to come the end of the old system so be ready for this persecution Matthew 24 obviously is the classic thing which has been projected onto the future well Jesus said very clearly all these things will come on this generation which was that generation not the race but the generation and it happened and it says it won't ever happen again you know so that's really what I started to do I went that look for all the scriptures that Jesus used all the parables all the things that people have you been using to illustrate this eternal conscious torment as what hell is and I very clearly found if I'm actually looking at it without the confirmation or biased of my belief systems it doesn't say what I thought it said so I am now open I believe in this process that okay well where am I now I've gone back to what I used to believe and realize that there isn't a foundation for what I used to believe in the Bible which is where I thought it came from so okay if it's not in the Bible as I thought what what is what what does it say what does it mean yeah and what did Jesus do about it and why would people go there you know so essentially I Eve I then looked at asking God and engaging God around well what is all this about so some of it was a well you are your read you used to read this in a futurist context so revelation obviously is the other big sort of thing where the lake of fire and death and Hades thrown into the lake of fire and the lake of fire being created for the devil and his angels you know and all that sort of stuff but there are different ways of interpreter in that if you interpret it from a futurist perspective then you're going to read that as well in the future judgment the of the great white throne that we're all going to end up being assigned someplace whatever but a lot of people will interpret you know particularly reform a reform background a lot of people are from a preterist or partial preterist view of scripture and revelation being mostly completed or all completed therefore therefore they would say that the lake of fire is the same thing as Gehenna it's a description and they would say that the devil and his angels and the devil is not a there is not a Greek doesn't have a capital D for devil you know Dalbir loss it just is a word which means accuser same for Satan satyr knows it doesn't actually necessarily have to be a person because it isn't personalized in in the scripture it's just written and it can mean accused accuser a same for diverse adversary is the actual meaning of the word and other places in the New Testament it isn't translated as a person it's translated as adversary when someone was against somebody so even there you can say well it may mean something else there are other possibilities that it could mean so looking at it then it was like okay well what does it mean you know so from a preterist view the devil the the accuser or the adversary and their angels and angels again can be messenger and gallows means messenger it doesn't have to be a supernatural messenger could be any messenger so you could say that the high priests and the Pharisees were those that were opposing and adversaries to the gospel and Jesus and therefore it could easily be seen as the high priest and the Pharisees and all his messengers that was talking about not a personal devil or a perk no I'm not saying it is or it isn't I'm just saying there are multiple different ways of interpreting this and then when you look at the original words themselves fire what is fire for now the annihilist annihilation view of well everyone will be annihilated and that's it they just die that you came because people couldn't couldn't reconcile a loving God with someone who was gonna interpret or torment people for a forever on the basis of what they've done for 70 years in no one's justice would that seem just okay these people they never heard the good news of the gospel they live that somewhere in the jungle never heard of Jesus never but they're gonna be tormented because it's just tough luck and for if you're really extreme in Calvinism you'll say oh well you know God just created them to be out there because they were gonna be punished anyway so he just stuck a message a jungle because there's no point there mirror in the gospel because they were gonna be punished in a way because God didn't juice them well I definitely don't believe in limited atonement Jesus died for everybody for all time as far as I'm concerned so you have all these different views fire P you are in Greek purify purification that's where the word comes from pyro pyromaniac pyro but the root is the same root is used in purification or refining purifying so fire can be purifying it doesn't destroy actually the fire does not destroy anything it just changes its form you burn wood and you get ash and smoke it still exists you burn something and it still exists in a changed form so it says in in Malachi you know I think it was in my car I'm one of them that you know Jesus is coming or the Lord's coming like a refiners fire and a fuller soap to purify coming to his temple he's coming you know and is this sort of since we're fire in the Bible often is seen as refined the coals of the altar you know the cut the purifying coals of Isaiah six and the Seraphim being the burning ones so again the words don't have to be interpreted the way we think their word torment or torture again the word itself the root of it is testing as by fire it's a metal in G word it's it's a technical term torture as in used in Revelation in terms of well they're going into the lake and fire to be tormented or tortured actually the word means to be tested like a testing stone to see whether it's pure or not that was the original word and it's been adopted to mean torture because it was about fire or purification or testing so even that as other meanings you know there are other meanings that are there that doesn't have to be interpreted through the normal meaning that we've a presumed to be true because we've all believed in this infernal list way so then then I looked at words which again were mistranslated and again if you look into a literal translation of the Bible you do not get forever or everlasting or eternal those words do not exist in Greek they're English words on based on all variations of the word Aeneas which actually means age enduring there's nothing in it which is an eternal or an everlasting or a forever and ever meaning it means age enduring or ages enduring which is a different thing so even some of the scriptures that people say are but it says this is going to be forever and ever it isn't there in the original Greek because that word has been mistranslated into an English word because they thought it meant something even eternal life is not talking about the quantity of life it's talk but the quality of life and when it's related to God it's talking about his quality of life that we can have not the age of it so you know John 3:16 it's not talking about the that we will have this life that will never end in context it's actually talking about we can have the quality of life of Jesus now in relationship with them so I discovered so many mmm misinterpretations confirmation me bias things that so then I looked back to the early church and said well what did they believe these are the guys who were closest to Jesus and closest to the disciples Udhas who were discipled by Jesus what did they believe and they had I think six different theological schools during that time in the sort of 2nd century and you had various schools of belief only one of them had any sense of torment punishment that was the one which was the Roman school who got their understanding from the Roman version the latin version of the Old Testament except uragan so they were and that were Tertullian and Augustine eventually Augustine were all in that school they didn't like Greek so they use Latin and so they totally misunderstood again the actual meaning of the words that were written and interpreted through their Latin thing and then you got Jerome's Vulgate Bible that was produced the Latin version of the Bible which was used from the 4th century I think all the way up to the King James and it basically all the other versions sort of came out of that a lot of them work were out of that that saw a message which was Italians and Augustine's message and if you look at them in their lives particularly Augustine the guy was wracked with guilt and shame condemnation is whole life because he couldn't overcome sexual sin so he had this view of God because he felt so guilty that God was punishing him because of his guilt he didn't have a revelation of the love of God and he with the Roman Empire with Constantine obviously taking the Christian faith making it the the state faith they started taking that with the legions out and making people convert so they came into the UK with Roman legions and basically they put a sword a whole load of the Celtic believers who had believed the gospel and now they were being forced to come into the latin version of the gospel and that of course came with punishment and torment and whatever else so I think when I first started to look at it I I found that the early church didn't believe in any form of eternal conscious torment at all it just isn't there and they didn't believe in penal substitution atonement either which to me is the foundational truth that leads to all these other things because if you believe that God's wrath anger against man was appeased by Jesus as a sacrifice and God killed Jesus then you have this view of God that he's angry and he needs appeasement and that that atonement was an appeasement for his anger and so I looked at all that and I think God really started to really challenge me over that view cuz I'm talking to him and he's like nothing like that in my relationship with him and I've struggled with well how can you be this angry God in the Old Testament and this really nice Jesus in the New Testament and it's like well I'm not even the Bible says I'm not the Bible says Jesus was my Express image he represented me fully so what he was like I'm like well how can that be true the Old Testament is full of you doing this and doing this and doing this and and he said well go back and look at what it says and you find a it was written by the victors of every thing and they all attributed their victory to the fact they were doing things on behalf of God and B every time it apportions God wiped out this group or God did this and he brought his judgment and punishment on this group you say you see written there because we Greek this Hebrew the Hebrew idiomatic form of writing attributed things to God that was how they did things it always states actually that God took his hand off God removed his protection from them so that they actually suffered the consequences of their walk in their own way and you see that continually through the Bible ai there's Jericho they're doing what God says and here's AI oh well we presume now we've got this great Authority we will go and take this little place and they got routed because they didn't do what God said they took on their own strength so then you get the judges how many times does Israel go back to foreign gods and what happens God removes his hand of protection on them they get conquered they get occupied by the Philistines and the ammonites and all the other rights and all this stuff then what happens they turned that to God what does he do welcome them back send them a judge give them victory over and over again you know and I I think when when the whole understanding of substitutionary atonement from a penal nature got dealt with and I believe in Atonement and I believe in substitution I just don't believe it was penal so I don't believe it was rich retro degrees or punitive it was restorative so Jesus died our death well who killed him God didn't kill him we put him on the cross mankind put him on the cross the religious and political system that wanted power uncontrol put him on the cross and God even used the worst torture that they could invent and he even turned that around to bring good out of it all because that's what gods like he's a loving God you know and therefore God did not forsake Jesus on the cross my God my God why have you forsaken me which is another key stone to penal substitution your Toman he didn't that was obviously Psalm 22 and if you read Psalm 22 verse 24 I think it is it says that God heard him and responded to him he was crying our cry he was totally identifying with fallen Adam and it says in 2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was in Christ reconciling the whole cosmos to himself not counting any of their sins against them so if God doesn't count their sin against them how can he punish them how can he punish anybody so all these things started to contribute to the process of realizing how loving God is and God's desire that none would perish and all would come to a knowledge of the truth so then all these scriptures about God's desire to restore things to reconcile everything to bring everything back into relationship with him made total sense from my my own relationship with him and the things he was talking to me about so once I'd realized that okay hell is not a biblical word the concept of Hell that we have attributed it is also not a biblical concept old or New Testament then I'm left with well what does happen to people after they die then it's just like what happens you know well I do believe in free will and I believe cute people can choose to separate themselves from God if they choose to I don't believe he's ever separated from us there are people who have this well God can't look at sin they're free can't look at sinners therefore they're separate God loved the world you know everyone in it and everything in it so I don't believe God's ever separate himself from us we've chosen to walk her own way we chose to walk on the path of the knowledge of the tree of good and evil God didn't tell us to go and do that all he did is stop them accessing the Tree of Life in the garden but they could have gone through the cherubim and the fiery sword if they chosen to because what did God say when they messed up and they were hiding in the bushes covering up where are you not what have you done so I can discipline you and punish you where are you I'm walking in the cool of the day here looking for our time of fellowship and intimacy and you gone and where are you of course he knew but he wanted them to say oh well we're here but we're coming to you now and they didn't they said we were afraid and we hid ourselves and we've covered it up yeah so we're now we're doing our own coverings we're doing our own thing because we're now appeasing you we're covering up our shame and our nakedness and we're appeasing you with our own fig leaves and everything else so you know you have a huge disconnect between what the early church believed what the Bible actually says and the concepts that we have deducted as well this is obviously the truth because we've all bought that because it's what everyone believes and it's the Orthodox position because if everyone's always believed it but when you go back and look at what they believed in the arrow Testament they didn't believe it so it's an evangelical perspective mostly a Protestant perspective which you know was accentuated by Calvin penal substitution you Thoma as a technical term only existed in I think in 1112 10th or 11th century with Anselm of Canterbury who developed the term and the terminology who was very influenced by Jerome's Bible and by augustinianism and Tertullian who was a very nasty guy I mean if you read some of the things that they were saying anyone who disagreed with him to him was going to be cast into the earth tone meant of God's fire forever cuz he they disagreed with him it was it was really wasn't really not really nice the guy and that's what the roots of some of this thing of God is because he didn't like people and particularly anyone who disagreed because he would call in a heretic and he would call them to burn in the flames of hell forever yeah cuz he was angry with them well what did Jesus say that we were to do with people who were angry with us forgive them and even on the cross when they're killing Jesus his response is Father forgive them no no repentance required just forgive them and he did and God reconciled everyone the whole cosmos to himself in Christ in what he did on the cross not counting their sin against them and we have this message of reconciliation and what have we used evangelistically a lot fear turn or burn if you do not love God he is gonna talk to you forever well who would want to love a god who's gonna torture people forever that's like me saying to let's say I was I was is it as a girlfriend and I wanted to propose to her it's like saying okay I want to marry you but if you don't want to marry me then I'm gonna torture you forever well you wouldn't really get too many people who are saying well that's the sort of guy I want to spend the rest of my life with and I think the same applies the world is rejecting this God that we have presented to them as this angry appease mean God who will punish them if they don't tow the line so then I get to this point okay so what happens to people and then you know Romans 2 i think talks about is the kindness and the tolerance and the patience of God that leads people to change their mind about him and them nothing to do with again repentance is another English word which comes from the Latin penance so keep doing penance and re doing penance and I'll forgive you so that's the way we've taken it all right you need to be sorry and you need to make amends because God will forgive you and if you don't you won't and we've used that word so it was his and what it really meant was is Metanoia which is with mind so when you are with the mind of God about yourself and him you will have a completely radical shift and it's his kindness tolerance and patience which will lead people to have that radical shift of mind not fear or punishment so then God loves everybody with kindness tolerance and patience and he's wishing that none would perish live in that lost identity but all would come to a knowledge of the truth that's what it says you know that's his desire and it's it's his desire it's not a wish the word wish isn't there it's it's we put wish in but it actually doesn't mean that God desires he wants everyone no one to panic perish so if that's his desire and he's kind intolerant so when people then die and they don't yet know him that then suddenly changes a god who's tolerant patient and kind wanting none to perish to this God who will torment and punish and torture people forever so our death changes the nature of God which is that's what that's really saying if God's like this before you die you die and all of a sudden God's totally different because tough luck you didn't accept him now he's going to show you his real face and he's gonna punish you and torment you and talk to you in the flames of hell I mean I saw someone the other day writing to rebuke what we put out as a post and they said that they had this vision of God hell in which people who didn't didn't accept the love of God we're going to be continually raped forever I mean seriously I mean it was just like I'm reading this like ah and you're saying this is this is the nature of God oh it was terrible I mean oh and I didn't respond cuz I'm just not gonna get into debates over this stuff but I felt so sorry for someone who thinks that that's what God's so then I started to snook up well okay if God hasn't changed after we die and he's the same God well is he not going to continue to give people the opportunity of choosing to accept him as Lord after they die and does physical death end choice and I came to the conclusion I couldn't find anything in the Bible that said physical death ends choice and so I threw this out to a few infernal lists to see what they would say you know have you got a scripture that says that death is the end of choice but when people physically die that's it they have no more ability to choose to accept Jesus as Lord and they couldn't come up with any so I thought well if if those that actually believe that that's the case can't come up with the scripture to say it's the case then there probably isn't one now the only scripture they did throw up which is the one I was expecting was you know the Hebrew Scripture you know it's a pointed man wants to die and then the judgment well there's nothing to do that with punishment and actually even will once to die appointed when you look at what that means and the context it was written again between old and new Cusco Vernon it doesn't mean what they were saying it man anyway so I ok came to the conclusion and this came in conversations with God as well it wasn't just mine I think I've got an understanding of it I asked him and he was talking to me about it it's Orcs about every knee and every tongue will bow and confess that Jesus Lord you know so it's just like okay well what does that mean is that forced well I can't accept that it's forced because I believe God's given us the choice so people can choose to be separated from him so what happens to them after they die what is the fire because I've been to the fire I mean I had visions what I would have called hell but I was seeing fire and I was seeing people in anguish what was that and I came to the conclusion in talking to God he is a consuming fire so people their souls go to a place of consuming fire what is the fire there to do to consume everything which is hindering them coming to a decision to accept Jesus as Lord not to punish them now are they in a very nice place no man it's like I've been in the fire of God's presence and I was physically quaking from the fire of God's President when I presented my scroll to him and I knew the love of God powerfully so if you don't know the love of God to be in a fire of God's presence it produces anguish of soul now people could say that his torment but it's not God's torment it's you being tormented by the fact that you had 10 choice 10 ik ways of accepting Jesus and you decided not to that's anguish I don't need to be here I'm here because I chose to be here and there was all these ways I could have got now at some point people will have opportunity of choosing to accept what Jesus has done now Jesus went there and preached he went to captivity went into Sheol he went into what was called Abraham's bosom which again was not a not a biblical term it was a term out of Babylon but it represented paradise he called it paradise today you will be with me in paradise which was into the grave and into the place where those who did believe and had a relationship with God and were counted as righteous like Abraham Moses and others but they actually Jesus went to them and he also went to those who were imprisoned it says the spirits who were imprisoned and he preached the good news and they responded and he led captivity captive and as a sign of that hundreds of them came out of the grave and wandered around Jerusalem testifying and witnessing to the resurrection and then they all go back up as the Clare the win with Jesus into heaven when he goes back into heaven because that's what he went up in not a normal bit of wispy cloudy when up in the cloud of witnesses so Jesus went and preached there a lot of of course what he was talking about before the cross was before the resurrection so after the red cross and the resurrection some things did change like there was no she all were two parts anymore cuz he led it all everything that was captive there he led them out so I'm in this place where I'm having all this stuff going on I'm really struggling with it I'm just so you know I would could do without this really but I had no choice because God is unveiling his truth he's revealing this stuff I'm seeing the truth in the Word of God therefore I asked him okay if this is the case if everyone who dies without knowing Jesus goes into your consuming fire what happens to them I asked the question and Jesus took me there and showed me so he took me into Satan's trophy room first of all and I'm looking at my area of heritage my family lines for family lines looking at them and Jesus is like do you want to engage with this and I'm thinking I don't know what you're talking about but yeah I'd love to see my family line I want to see my heritage back it was purely selfish really because I just wanted my heritage that I never had I thought I was gonna get it all you know so he says well let's go through the door and I said what door I'd never seen a door that been there before it never seen a door he said that door and I'm like why didn't I see that he said well because you couldn't see it because you're blinded by the fact that you didn't believe it existed so we go through the door he gives me a silver Trump Trump and we engaged my father's father's generational life and they were there in fire in the fire and they are in anguish and I'm standing there thinking Jesus what do I do you know and he's not saying anything so eventually I preached a feeble message I mean it was terrible really but I didn't know what to do I was overawed by the experience so I preached the message of the love of God I preached Jesus you know as and I basically told them they didn't need to stay there they could accept Jesus and they could come out and Jesus walked out and I followed him figuring I'm not staying here mode so I followed him at home and I blew this trumpet I think well he gave me I better do something with I blew it and we followed out we went back up through this fiery tunnel out through the fiery sword or on to wisdom sites Jesus stands turns around and a few hundred people followed us and they got to the fiery sword the door and they kneeled and they confessed Jesus is Lord and they walked out through the door and they walked into Zion and I'm standing there with Jesus and I'm looking on I said what have you done to me how am I possibly gonna explain this and he said well you just tell people that I did this and I told you to do everything I did and greater things so this is just the beginning this is not the end so I'm like okay so if anyone says well you can't do that I said well Jesus said I can and Jesus did it and so then I said well why didn't everyone come out how would a thought even at the most feeble presentation of the gospel know or want to stay there surely they'd won out if they had an opportunity so he said well the the authority you have to preach there is proportional to the amount of fire that has been applied to the generational lines in your life so I thought okay if you want me to go back here I'm gonna need some more of the fire of the of the altar the coals you know where Isaiah said you know I'm a man of unclean lips i amongst the people of unclean lips and he wasn't just talking about the present believers he was talking about his generational lines were the same so I have been back there numerous times I've been back there with some specific things to preach when I was on the fire you know several times I had some specific things to deal with then I went back and preached the good news I realized the more and more I went there but you know the scripture where it says a double minded man is unstable in all his ways I think it's in James you know and it's like I realized that I'm preaching to fragmented Souls and some of them are double minded triple minded quadruple minded they are fragmented and parts and they can't all respond to the good news because they're broken and some of them don't like God because of the things that have happened to them in their lives and they blame God so I I went back there last year in in December and it's very specific encounter and I thought I need to preach wholeness and peace so I thought well I'm gonna ask Jesus to come with me as the Prince of Peace I'm gonna ask him to be able to give me the authority to be able to speak to every part of someone's soul and I preached a really powerful message of healing and restoration from fragmentation and brokenness and and reintegration and wholeness in the Prince of Peace and I just gave them a call to come into the Prince of Peace and I mean just so many responded to that and they came and they engaged and they were integrated and whole in their soul and they accepted Jesus as Lord and they came out of that place now I'm not the only one who's having these experiences and encounters lots of people are Nancy Koehn people like that they are having these type of encounters other people I'm not going to mention the names because they may have not publicly said this so I'm not going to put them on the spot but I've talking to them and I am I know that they have the same experiences and they have the same beliefs they're just not necessarily willing yes to come out because of the potential stuff that happens as a result of this but I believe that the love of God and God is love and he doesn't want anyone to perish now I'm not going to be labeled with the name on this you see people will start calling you a universalist well it doesn't matter about preaching the gospel because if everyone is going to be saved and what does it matter we might as well just let it all happen and therefore all roads lead to God in the end and so and I'm not I'm not there Jesus is the only way to the Father no one can come other than through Jesus he's the only way no other religion will enable people to come to the Father only Jesus I'm not a Christian Universalist either because the Christian universities will say everyone will be saved guaranteed no I don't understand why people wouldn't want everyone to be saved and is my fervent hope that everyone will eventually respond and say Jesus is Lord but I can't guarantee that because they got free will they can carry on resisting that call to accept you as for as long as they want to I sincerely hope they don't and that desire or belief that people can make a choice even after they die does not in any way diminish my desire to preach the good news or see people come into their salvation here and now and find their relationship go and become discipled and part of God's kingdom here and now why would I ever want anyone to go to a place of fire which will mean being in a place of anguish and tormented by them their own decisions and choices but not by God nowhere in the story of Lazarus and the rich man do you find God even mentioned as being there it just says that he's in the flames well I believe he is in the flames he was in the flames and the same flames are there now the flames of God consuming in fact the fire of his love because he's passionate about his children he wants all his children to have a relationship with them and fulfill their destiny in the ages to come so I I I have no issue with this lining up with the biblical understanding of Jesus the Father God God be in love and I don't find these other views can reconcile with God being loved you know do I believe in God's justice absolutely God's justice is based on what Jesus did on the cross everyone can receive salvation that's what God's justice is so everyone died in Adam all died in Adam so everyone who followed the path of Adam has died spiritually but all are made alive in Christ all are made alive in Christ and it doesn't say all in Christ are made alive it says every all are made alive in Christ so everybody is made alive through the resurrection most people just don't know it they don't know what God has done already to reconcile them to himself not counting their sins against them Colossians says that every accusation made against us has been nailed to the cross now that isn't just an accusation against me it's a accusation against everybody Jesus died for everybody on the cross he died everyone's death we've all been Koch rusev ID with him just most people don't believe that yet so they're still believing the old way of thinking that we're separated from God so they live separated when they don't need to they can come and experience the message of reconciliation and be reconciled to God come back to him because he's already reconciled to you he's already made it possible for you to come back to him because he's reconciled the whole cosmos to himself so we can then come back to him and discover he loves people and he's longing you know it's just like the you know the prodigal in the story of the prodigal son did the father say right tough luck you know you've wasted your inheritance I'm gonna torment you and punish you you're gonna stay in the pigswill forever no he was waiting with open arms for his son to come back to him who'd wasted all his inheritance well you can't tell me that it doesn't mean everybody all God's children it does so he's wanting to welcome all God's children but also God's children have to come to him and if they don't come to him he's still waiting for them to come to him he's not gonna say that's it cutoff day and he's still waiting them to come from even after physical death so the three views of hell mine's definitely restorative it's definitely not wretched riff or punitive I don't see the crosses retributive or punitive I believe it's dealing with the wages of sin which was spiritual death Jesus died our death so we do not need to die and therefore everyone is now alive spirits death is swallowed up in victory Oh death where is your sting you know death itself will be ended physical death will be ended at some stage now spiritual death is ended now through what Jesus did on the cross you know and I know people will come up with all sorts of arguments most of them are Miss interpreting what Jesus said and if this was such a big issue do you not think that people would have been preaching in the early church and then the New Testament and Paul would have been preaching and Peter would have been preaching and John would have been preaching you need to turn to Jesus or you're going to be punished forever none none of them say it none of them actually directly talk about Hell fire judgment like that in the New Testament there's a couple of scriptures that have been used to propor that one about talking about the wrath of God and avoiding the wrath of God and all that stuff but actually the word Roth can also be translated passion you know so even those scriptures and I in you know in that I did a seven part series of this and I went into every every possible scripture in the New Testament but maybe referring to this and gave an alternative explanation which is just as alternatively possible as the one that people are taking and much more lines up with the nature and character of who God really is who wants no one to perish I just am not at that point where I'm saying this has to be automatic and everyone who dies ends up in a relationship with God automatically they don't they have to choose and they have to choose to come through Jesus and through embracing the cross and that victory over death that they can receive life so yeah it's been quite a journey on this and you know and I don't take it lightly and I've been through the experiences of going there so I've seen it and so I generally ask people who hold a different view the penal substitution internet view if someone contacted me a few weeks ago and sort of said you're removing the cornerstone of the Christian faith know that this penal substitution and and you are in mask you late in God that he can't be angry anymore and I'm not couse God's angry but he's not angry with us what's he got to be angry with us over if Jesus has already died for all our sin he's angry with everything that's robbing us he's angry with everything his wrath is poured out on everything that's stopping us coming to the knowledge of the truth every hindrance every obstacle every lie he's anger and ratha poured out on that they're not poured out on me or anybody Jesus died our death so we do not need to die and therefore we offer life we offer abundant life to people with a ministry and a word of reconciliation that we're drunk we're drawing people back to that relationship now how do people think that we can preach a gospel of fear if perfect love casts out fear no I totally accept the God so once a relationship with everyone he will use everything possible to get that relationship so if someone preaches fear and someone responds to it he's gonna he's gonna accept them and welcome them although it may not be his number one best way of doing it here people on their deathbed have visions of Jesus turning up before they die he'll take that pill and if people have to choose to go into that's consuming fire of his love and presence he'll take that and he'll still offer them a way out a friend of mine you know I was talking to him online like this and he said to me I can I talk to you so I'm said well yeah sure he said well I had this experience I was in heaven the other day and some of my family came up to me so so oh right and he said anything I said to them I didn't know you were believers and they said what we weren't so he said well well how do you get here then he said well Jesus came to us and he preached a message to us and he reminded us that you used to say and all my household will be saved and we responded to his message and now we're in a relationship with them so and I said well yeah I I can totally get validate your experience because I've had similar experiences myself and a lot of people are afraid of coming out with their experiences because they're afraid of being shot down and accused to be in heretics and being in big hot water with the religious traditional institutions which yeah unfortunately that does happen but I had once I came out of the closet over this stuff if you like which I did in the vision destiny series 2017 you know I wasn't really intending to until I really taught it I people started to contact me to say thank you for for sharing this because they were afraid you know a that they were they'd lost the plot or be they were just frayed because no one no one didn't talk to anyone about it to validate whatever they'd experienced and they were so thankful that someone at least come out and said but this is this is the story this is a journey and lots of people have been like that you know since and so many people if you have a face-to-face relationship with God you cannot fail to go deeper and understand his love more you know and it's that thing's so whenever people object to this one of the first things I would ask them if I would get into any discussion with them and I'm not going to do that online with people but say if someone asked me genuinely I'll say what where do you why do you believe what you believe and where did it come from where did that belief system come from and majority of them will say it came from their upbringing their church upbringing their Christian you know discipleship whatever so I would say so you did not get this true face to face with God God did not reveal this directly to you well no it came through this and they'll point to some theology book or they'll point to some message that someone taught I said well I've met God face to face and my face-to-face encounter with God is not going to be trumped by some theological system or belief that I've actually looked at critically looked at because I believed it myself I'm not gonna go back to that when God has revealed himself in a totally different way I have to go with that encounter part of our problem is we venerated the Bible to make it almost the fourth person of God and it isn't it's a book you know and that book isn't God and it can't possibly contain everything about God but most people's understanding about God has come from a book not relationship and as soon as you get outside of the book into a relationship which that book reveals of course and unveils to us once you have the relationship you don't talk to God through a book he talks to you face-to-face intimacy fellowship walking in the cool of the day being refreshed with God again and that for me and that experience and those are people are having those experiences very few of them are having a problem when you realize reveal this loving God who wants everyone to have a relationship with him you know it seems really strange to me the people would be saying almost with glee but they are very happy for the majority of people to be tormented forever as if that would be in any way a sense of justice after what Jesus did on the cross you know but I'm not here to change people's minds or trying to get them believe what I believe because that's up to them and God they have their everyone's got the right to their own view and their own opinion but I didn't I want to encourage people not to lean unto their own understanding but to pursue God for themselves and whatever they believe in their life with God is to get it from him you know so I'm not out to try and convince people to change their minds but I am out to try and encourage people to go and have a relationship with God which will really reveal what he's like that will unveil that so that they can really meet the real God and not the one which we have presented by religion sadly religion has presented the angry God that most of the world has turned away from whereas when you know him in relationship you're presenting the loving God who willingly died in our place dying our death so we could receive abundant life I think that message with an encounter with the Living God will reach people much better than this angry retributive punishing tormenting God who loves his children but will punish them if they don't get it right you know that isn't the God that I know a nightmare I don't think so there you go you had quite a lot with that answer be honest it's light without giving you the full picture I could only just sort of say well yeah this is the view that I hold to but I is a journey it's been a journey for me to get there maybe there just suddenly one day deciding oh I don't like that I'll just I'll just dispose of it I went right into this I discovered there are lots of other people out there as well who are on the same journey and they've written some really good materials you know we've got links to that material as well you know but ultimately you can read every bit of material out there but you're only really gonna get a confirmation of the truth from the truth himself which is Jesus that's the only way we're really gonna know what the truth is is engaging the truth not our understanding of the truth not our theological perspectives of the truth but him the truth and when I've engaged the truth as a person he's revealed himself as nothing but love and of course there's justice most justice gets outworked here the consequences of sin of our fallen identity and the behaviors that are associated with that are damaging that's why God doesn't like it it hurts people it hurts us you know so it's not that people get away with anything and I think this is another thing well those people should they shouldn't get away with this stuff and and of course you get all sorts of stuff right well what about Hitler what about Stalin and what about these people well what about me God doesn't view me any differently than anybody else he sees everyone through Jesus because Jesus died everyone on the cross so yeah those people no doubt will face the justice of realizing what they've done and that will be the biggest justice realizing that everything they did and every bit of damage they did and every person they killed was done out of their broken lost identity and having to come to terms with that would I wouldn't want to come to terms with anything even the things I've done when I face the the judgment sea and my scroll and the would a and the stubble even that was terrible sense of regret and realizing that I'd missed so much and realizing the motives of my heart work were not pure all the time and was just like ah but but I knew the love of God and I knew God loved me and purified me through it to not know the love of God and have to face facing all the things that people have done their decisions their choices and realize that all of those things are from the DIY tree mm-hmm and people can remain self-righteous and argue that they can that that stuff is self righteously okay for as long as they want but God's love will never give up and will never fail and no one can be separated from the love of God I mean that's very clear from Romans eight you know no one nothing can separate some love God nothing that's created can separate some love God and we are created so we cannot separate ourselves from the love of God when you read Romans eight no twenty third twenty nine to 38 whatever that whole passage it's like it's so clear but if God is for us who can be against us the accusations cannot be against us if God is for us what is he not for everyone or is he just for a few the few lucky ones who happen to respond to the good news know he loves everybody yeah wow they can excuse them though it doesn't excuse people's behaviors and most people are actually living in what people think of Hell now not knowing God not going God's love desperately trying to earn their own self-righteousness self-worth value esteem all through doing stuff and and realizing that it will never ever meet their needs DIY self-righteousness can never meet a need for wholeness or peace or relationship only God can only Jesus can and finding a relationship in Jesus brings us into a whole different understanding of God's love for us and the wonder of our dad who is a wonderful dad I don't have to fear my dad I honor him I respect him I mean all of him at times but I'm not gonna fear him and be afraid of him you know I'm not gonna be afraid of my dad and yes my dad disciplines me why cuz he corrects me and he trains me to become more like him but he doesn't punish me if I get it wrong he helps me learn from my mistakes and we even weaves my own mistakes into his Redemption story and he redeems it all that's how loving God is Wow thank you okay well it's been bit of a one subject time but you know but it's something I just feel is so important for the world to hear the good news I just don't think most people's version of the good news is very good and I think that's why most people are rejecting it I need that they need to encounter God genuinely in love mm-hmm you know and I think even our preaching of the gospel has been preaching at an intellectual level as in you know the gospel good news if you believe this blindly without even knowing God then you'll be saved whereas no one in the Bible was saved or had relationship with God which wasn't a relationship the disciples believed Jesus because they walk with him every day they weren't asked to believe in someone they didn't meet we be introducing people the world to the real God so when they meet him Wow how they will discover how wonderful he is so asking people to pray a prayer do an altar call although yes God will take it it's not what he intends he wants to reveal himself to people I mean I love the story were Paul where he has this encounter on the Damascus Road and in Galatians he described it as that God was revealing the Christ was in him and then when it was like well why are you kicking against the goads why Paul are you resisting what I've been doing in you to try and disciple you you've been resisting it and I've been at working you all this time and you've been operating with your own blinded mindset of yourself righteous religious rituals when those truth is in you the light is in you wait waiting to be revealed and now it's like okay Lord who are you but I'm Jesus so I think I think that's the way God wants to reveal himself to people as already at working people and we need therefore to stop telling them they're separated from God and telling them that he's already done everything to make them alive in him they just need to discover it I think that's a much better presentation of the gospel you know people didn't ever even do altar calls until the 19th century hmm go back to Wesley and Whitfield and guys like that the power of God showed up in God's presence and people were weeping having met God that was what turned them to follow him not a message of intellectualism without any reality behind it it's like I remember reading the story of wet as Wesley and he was preaching this message and this lady was wailing and crying and the guy one guy said to him we can do anything for her he says God already is what more can I do gods meeting her we need to help people meet God then they will know the truth of who he is a loving God who was given everything and held back nothing you know it says in Romans if God gave His only Son how will he hold back anything else that's our loving years well Finny the one who brought out the mourners bench yeah cuz they they sort of brought out techniques you know and then sort of it became you then the sinner's prayer they didn't have a sinner's prayer you can't find the sinner's prayer in the Bible in the New Testament yes it's drawn from a couple of scriptures you know so Romans if you confess with your mouth and believe you are you know there are some scriptures you know but actually the faith that we have to believe is not something we have to generate and try to believe when you meet God you don't have to try to believe you met him you believe he gives everyone the face to believe you've been saved by grace through faith that's not the gift of your yeah that's not your own that's the gift of God so that you can't boast that I saved myself through this amazing belief I had in God it's a gift well God must have given that gift of faith to everybody so that everyone can believe but everyone's got a choice whether they actually do believe and the way we preached the gospel today I think people aren't believing because they're not really encountering God per se he wants people to encounter him everyone Moses encountered the burning bush you know there wasn't just this sort of letter sent to him with this well I'm sending you to Egypt there was this amazing experience Abraham leave your country and your family and go to where I'm gonna tell you to go well that was an encounter with the Living God no not some blind faith just believe in this God somewhere everyone in the Old Testament encountered God Noah walked with God he not what we've got if they all walked with God David had such an intimacy with God though it wasn't just theoretical the prophets heard the voice of God or saw the reality of God so we've got to get back to I think introducing people to the real God a God of love the God who's given everything for them and once a relationship with them and will never leave them or forsake them or fail they just got to realize that they need to turn to be reconciled to God God's already reconciled them to him but we've got this Ministry of reconciliation we'd been given the word of reconciliation and what have we done we've twisted it and made it the world of separation we've been preaching separation to the world when Jesus gave us the word of reconciliation to the world whoa I better leave it there okay brother

Channel: Mike Parsons

Views: 15,067

Rating: 4.6133332 out of 5

Keywords: Hell, Supernatural mentoring, God, Fire of God's presence, hellfire preaching, evangelism, good news, gospel, Jesus, Jesus Christ, heaven and hell, early church, Conversion of St Paul, Christianity, Christian spirituality

Id: VZGMc7k_FXU

Length: 79min 12sec (4752 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 17 2018