Creators Roundtable : Odyssey 1 year retrospective

well then greetings there ladies and gentlemen it is time for creators roundtable but before we start i had some notes before that apparently i overstepped some people so for your specific viewing pleasure i did edit out a little bit of boring parts and myself quite a bit so hopefully you'll enjoy it uh well at least more than the raw version shall we say so we'll see about that there's also a little bit better quality of the audio in the middle part not as much because i wasn't filming because my hard drive was full regardless of that big thanks to obsidian ant and excgs go check them out of course and finally if you enjoy the content i make and well through your help and so on so forth like this uh i was able to increase the production value so uh i'll go check out the patreon and maybe toss it back my way it really helps regardless now let's get into it [Music] hey ladies and gentlemen greetings it is what a day it is indeed so well then welcome one and all for wherever you are watching this from whoever you're watching this uh this is sort of uh well not exactly impromptu because i actually planned it a little bit uh uh early but oh well this is what it is anyways this is a creator's round table or whatever is left of it shall we say uh from back in the day that we used to do for elite dangerous and its community and so on and so forth uh i'm sort of today is yours host uh yamiks i'm joined today with obsidian and sandex cgs as we will be discussing a little bit about the the first year and its retrospective of elite dangerous odyssey the new era the biggest ever update that frontier developments released and how it has turned up or turned out uh shall we say and uh sort of look back at the year passed and what has been accomplished in our own side of things and as well as in the game side of things so i suppose we should start in that case well um to give the co uh co co talkers shall we say uh some word for the folks who haven't followed the lead dangerous that much uh let's just just start with simple introductions quickly shall we say so i see xcg as being on top so i'll get just go fine quite the quite the introduction there you have it hi guys do it yourself why not yeah no that's perfect that's perfect uh hi everybody it's been a while since since a lot of you guys have heard me um as those who are sub to my channel may know i kind of stepped away from the game right when odyssey launched uh we'll get into that here in just a little bit as to kind of why personally i quit uh that quits the wrong word i get well no i guess it is the right word um but why i walked away um but yeah i'm exegeous um i focused on uh tutorial content for a long time um always if you guys have seen my channel i always try to be very what i'm not when i live stream very clear concise very to the point with tutorials so um you know i i loved it there's i still things i love about the game again we'll get into all that in a little bit but yeah we'll talk about what i've kind of moved on to a little later on too and with that i'll pass it over to who i'm sure needs no introduction the great and powerful obsidian ant oh thank you excuses so yeah been a while since i've streamed i've streamed a little while um a couple of weeks back now but kind of miss the um the old regular streams as james kind of mentioned there kind of felt a bit sad when he says uh the few of us that are left over remember the old days when we used to uh do these creative round tables regularly and good afternoon things have changed what's going on yes obsidian they know who he is i know but just in case for the new people the new ones i'm obsidian and i used to exclusively live stream elite dangerous but over the years kind of expanded a little bit onwards and um streaming other games so if i'd like to focus on space games and flight simulators yeah you're doing a lot of microsoft flights in these days is that is that right and yeah yeah yeah yeah it's quite a bit of flight stimulator but also other you know space games let's have a look a bit of everything expand the horizons now that uh volvo will will get into it and i suppose i should introduce myself as well i i'm gonna be more acting as a moderator hopefully today and talk less because people seem to not really like my voice including myself but regardless i am yeah makes a latvian well shall we say a piece of [ __ ] who critiques comments and then on everything that is possible basically beating the dead horse that is elite dangerous and more but uh overall i i today tried to organize th this thing and we actually had one more uh call talker or co-host shall we say planned but uh last minute uh he had to sort of uh deal with real life unfortunately but uh i'll try to echo his sentiments as well as a few others that i got the comments from and uh for the creator roundtable uh well yeah we're kind of trying to represent the sort of uh the youtube side of things creator side of things uh ones that used to be ones that are ones that uh sort of get disheartened shall we say uh and uh or those that continue kind of or at least as much as we can so yeah there you go um so um well as i said previously we'll just uh get over a couple of topics and so on and so forth there are certain things yeah topics basically and uh just uh well sort of recap this year that has been uh for odyssey and uh what it turned into um before we start any any comments no i think the i think that we got a little bit of a an outline that yamiche has got for us i think it's great right yeah the alpine those yeah i'll try and you know segment the the discussion to topics and so forth uh so the first will be a pre-release the the portion before uh odyssey released then we'll just skip over the little bits about the release that uh well happened uh we did a creator's round table on that as well and xcgs was present there as well so it'll be interesting to see uh you know what has changed but potentially uh and uh and then uh well after that quick recap we'll get into the whole year and what happened in it uh and uh well after that if we got a little bit of time left we'll talk about the future of the game what has been announced or what we expect and um a few extra little things maybe pluck some comments from uh the chat or something like that but we'll see about that anyways so as i said previously let's get into pre-release um so setting the stage essentially the the elite dangerous odyssey at least before we knew elite dangerous odyssey was the dangerous odyssey back in 2014 and even before that this obsidian ant probably can actually comment a little bit more elite dangerous developers did talk about in kickstarter today specifically more about the potential to walk around so if actually as somebody who was part of that uh period in time in elites uh the development and uh community well what did you think of the the space legs that they kind of insinuated that well at least implied basics that we got all the space legs that they implied back then which one what they implied back then what was the sentiment if you remember this united is it's a funny time because for a lot of people who were around back then 2012 was the early days when they were just talking about it there was obviously a lot of excitement because many of the people there wanted a sequel for elite for a very long time so whenever something like that happens it's always any thing that the developer does or doesn't say is always tied up with what people's hopes and expectations and dreams for any game are going to be so there's def definitely a lot of uh a big lot of hype there and a lot of that was what people were hoping for and expecting so if you think back on those times now and some of the stuff you will hear about it it's mixed up with that but there's definitely quite a bit of talk about um how elite thunder developers from frontier how elite will devolve and how it will develop over the years and um so yeah am i hearing ant really from the start the expectation was always that space legs would come and is that and and second part is that also something the early on the community always wanted like you know was was that the same was that the case back then well the way the way it seemed to me back then was that it was uh very much a mix people knew that the idea was to build elite a foundation for elite and then expand upon it um frontier encouraged that sentiment that idea and there was things ideas such as um atmospherics worlds land tonight atmospheric worlds um ability to land on planets which obviously didn't come with the release of the game and of course uh yeah walking around that was mentioned specifically the ability to board other players ships uh hide yourself into the players ships yeah there's there's archive footage of bravo mentioning that i do remember though there was also um the forum post and i pretty sure i can't remember which developer it was it was one of the designers of the time again this is going back to 2013 times where they specifically mentioned um the ability to walk us around inside space stations and uh shop fronts i remember they mentioned in storefronts as well in one of their forum posts i'm trying to get out in a minute and with perhaps we can put that quote on screen but yeah it's just been space legs has been discussed all the way back pretty much right from the very first days that elite dangerous uh was discussed so okay okay not a new thing not a new thing yeah i mean i knew it wasn't new i just i was you know i didn't jump into the game until early 2016. um you know i wasn't part of the kickstarter yeah so that period between when xcg has jumped in um it was 2015 when i picked up the game i i think it was april or something like that uh basically and uh you know the game was really interesting and so and so forth and you know as you get into the community and so forth you start to hear about hey you know you're piloting the spaceship from the first person blah blah blah which was very immersive well what about the space likes and you know i think yeah all right fair enough uh that would be pretty nifty if you will but uh well at the time i wasn't you know watching exactly the old kickstarter implications but there was still a persistent wish that we would one day be at least able to walk about a border ships the cockpits of at least the bigger ships and you know at least do that much and even the old 2014 launch trailer implied well kind of it uh at least that that that pre-rendered footage that that wonderful stuff so there was that sentiment in the air it never left and then exigius comes in yeah okay so so early from early on there was always kind of the sounds like i got two things there and there was always the expectation maybe that's too strong of war but there was always the i mean i guess that's right that they were talking about that that would be part of the game and did i also hear that even back then the community was fairly split on on wanting it i mean i've always been pretty vocal about the fact that i had no interest in space legs and i always was i as you said i was always far more interested in atmospheric worlds um so it really kind of has never changed has it yeah i think back then it was less about not wanting space legs or not wanting or you know atmospheric planets are more the order that the content should come in because i think that generally the expectation that all of it would come at some point you know we won't be struggling still waiting for stuff it was more discussion of what should come first rather than sure shouldn't you come at all so yeah i think i think you know the expectations were high then and understandably so because plenty of obviously committing to elite again after you know for a long long time people have grown up with it so you know the whole nostalgia thing you know don't forget that was the whole kickstarter days there was the uh what other games were there there was the um i can't remember the company that um the guy who did well help i think i would just say starts first yeah but yeah the lead then started about the same time weren't there someone probably remembering chat the um guy behind monkey island and all those games they kind of started it all off from kickstarter no wait no no no man sky you're not talking about no man's sky before then it was about above february that was the one yeah it got about two million on kickstarter and it was like okay it's exploding onto the scene and after that everyone started doing uh kickstarters an elite followed on about eight months down the line after that i would even say that the elite actually started its kickstarter because star citizen proved to be that you know at least interesting i mean sure they basically launched a month apart and so on so forth so there probably was some sort of uh not exactly collusion but uh well behind the scenes uh things that each know about each other sort of uh and uh after examining the history of spaces which i did specific uh you know videos and so on so forth about i actually realized very quickly that uh that sort of a space in resurgence that happened in 2012 was mostly because of star citizen and elite basically followed up as hey this market is you know it's proven hits and there's literally just one other guy doing it so hey let's get into it because we have a title and they succeeded tremendously i would say that's my view of the history sorry yeah it's interrupting you so someone in chat just mentioned in a double fine and tim schaefer there we go double yep exactly that's the one that's my head for a moment yeah several in chat said that so thanks guys um awesome you know and i don't i don't remember that so and also did i just hear that literally elite and star citizen both launched kickstarter did you say within a month of each other i guess i didn't realize it was that close if i remember correctly 2000 well originally technically uh star citizen launched its own crowdfunding site it literally went down on the same day but kickstarter came in like a day or so later or on the same day i don't remember exactly how it was but literally in less than a week as saying that hey we have our platform maybe use that while you get your your thing back online and that's when kickstarter uh for them launched which was uh october of 2012 uh 2012 yeah okay remember correctly uh the month date i don't remember and then on november specifically was elite so then yeah both very very close together interesting and so and now here we are basically 10 years later with both games not fulfilling those promises both games in very different states of not completeness uh interesting all all right it's it certainly is interesting seeing this development especially it sort of marks the new i don't want to use the word generation but it kind of feels almost like a new generation of game development we've literally lived through porsche partially the la games as service plague that basically uh modern games tend to get into a lot and some of them are just getting off finally after the proven hits that are held in the ring and so on so forth but uh and there are still executives that think that hey pay to win games are smart mostly china but you know that's a whole different topic from a monetary from a monetary standpoint you could certainly argue that they are or can be right but yes from the end user experience i think that we all agree that i mean i think there are games that do pay to win correctly um and that don't um you know right we can certainly debate how star citizen handles it but i don't think we're here to debate star citizen today are we oh well oh you yes okay fair enough i guess no no no i mean not that it's not that it's off limit you're going to say no that's but yeah still play to it anyway anyways continuing on then uh quickly skipping time from 2016 more or less when exceeding jumps in to 2021 when we got the first announcements of odyssey i know it's a big time skipping so far but you know we need to keep on time sort of at least i'll try so really the only thing that happened in there gimmicks that you're not meant i mean the only thing to mention even would be horizons right i mean yeah between that so yeah it was a bumpy period shall we say so yeah yeah right the stage is set imagine one day you're waking up which i did i look on reddit and see a trailer a trailer that suddenly is about space legs and and the the interesting thing about the pre-release of odyssey was that the announcement trailer accidentally got published at every i remember that yeah yeah every news article site that had a pre-scripted you know the the post they embed it yeah yeah they were just hammering and just just just just up in arms and just running about it was pandemonium and boy oh boy the hype got real the game got its biggest bump in player resurgence since horizon's release i saw at least on the time on uh steam so yeah it really got really all right got got a lot of attention all over the place any particular uh yeah experiences from your ends because yeah i could talk forever you know yeah go ahead yes yeah i think at that particular point it seemed like um after a long time of elite being in quiet mode or was it two years a bit more in 2021 about that i think yeah yeah we had about two years of very yeah very very little content or way anything actually from frontier for about two years it just suddenly felt that everything was coming back to life and i think in large part due to the reaction you just mentioned gmx the you know the massive upsurge in interest from people who'd never even played elite and all the media interest it seemed like elite might have just been going up to the next level you know to be um a bit cliche about the term there but yeah it felt like it was finally going somewhere beyond where it'd been the thing is with the with space like addition essentially what elite started to become was from a niche but a relatively decent hardcore game it's it seemed that it tried to approach the more casual player you know that everyone can play because fps games are probably the most simplest types of games to pick up and play except maybe for maybe driving games or something so yeah that was kind of interesting that hey this sort of a niche genre is trying to you know sort of get into that more casual environment and potentially attract a lot more well interest from everyone around which star citizen to a certain point had already almost cornered it so yeah it was kind of catch-up moment i suppose but nonetheless people were interested very interested in that well you know it just popped into my head for you guys both when do you guys feel i don't know that peaked is the right word but when do you guys i mean that is the right word when do you guys feel like you had that you know your channels and videos and streams and stuff had the most interest because for me thinking back it was around um fleet carriers right when fleet carriers launched i remember i mean i think i remember almost hitting two thousand on a spring back yeah right oh yeah well yeah i mean that was the whole story of itself but it seems like from there till the odyssey launch was kind of the the you know the peak of everything player involvement views again you know viewers on streams and you know and and since then it's obviously tapered off dramatically did you guys feel like the same experience um and yeah definitely huh a huge amount of interest back then although for me is kind of happening around about the same time as a big upshot in interest with microsoft flight simulator yeah yeah yeah fair enough because that was both at the same time yeah they were very close together i've been odyssey released around about the same time that uh flight simulator was given all this promo material or maybe vice versa i can't remember which one happened first flight simulator come out first didn't it 2020 so yeah even in my memory the two are kind of blurred together because there was just so much going on with both of the saints of that particular time yep yep yeah was flight sim i've kind of remembered if i'm right that that that um fleet carriers was around like the april may range and i think that was right when flight sim wasn't flight so may of 2020 chats yeah chad's gonna channel no better i remember many days but not those sorry well i even remember doing some of their announcements more or less on the same day as flight sim announcements there might have even been one of the same day flight simulator was released if i remember you know i actually remember regardless what it was uh i would say that the absolute peak both in numbers of on steam as well you can actually see but also in the sort of views or at least the interest for me was well the big bump was obviously on the first day of all four and it tapered out uh slowly which was expected uh but the launch launch was very interesting it it quickly went up and just well even actually quicker ran down and that was i think the peak at least on my end i need to go back and re you know go through the stats and whatnot but uh that's that that period between the alpha launch and and the release and that was the yeah probably the biggest peak portion of elite's lifetime yeah and again when you say launch just to clarify we're talking odyssey here oh this year of course uh yeah yeah yeah 2001 to 2002. for 2000 and 2000 2020. 2021 yes yes so yeah okay actually we are getting into the alpha then basically alpha comes in so to quickly recap do you remember and oh can you explain what did you think of the day one of and maybe the at least the first week too you know uh since they released it in piecemeal uh you know i guess i'll jump in first um you know i i mean i sadly the first word that comes to head to my mind is disappointment but i i think more i was more confusion i i remember right because i remember that it was very like okay what's actually here what can we do what's broken versus this is just how it is because there was you know like always we got so little from frontier in terms of what the gameplay was even really supposed to be it was just kind of here it is right and you know so i i i just remember again i remember a lot of confusion i remember a couple friends like after i played for it was two couple days after the first alpha had come out and a buddy was you know was going to jump in and he was you know i remember saying well hey you should you know let me show you a few things before you jump in he's like oh no no i'll just figure it out i was like okay have fun and then like three or four hours later he was like okay what the [ __ ] dude what what is going on here right like you know what is broken what you know and again just a lot of confusion yeah well yeah right and and i've always said that i think it's good and bad that elite just drops you in the water and you know here you go figured out for yourself to a degree i think that's both a strength and a weakness but i remember it being especially bad back then i don't know and what was your kind of main memory from then from the launch of what i say yeah just yeah from the alpha from the first alpha on the first alpha yeah well it's i think that had all the build up hype towards it i think my expectations and hopes were higher for it than what we actually saw um i think it was quite clear right from the first down for the direction things were starting to go in it wasn't looking good yes yes i think i think probably yeah especially the first day was plagued with server issues i remember exeges being very angry about that you know yeah i kind of remember that too right and and i remembered some of it's to be you know understood i don't remember the specifics maybe somebody in chat well right of what was going on those days but you know i mean okay it's an alpha it just launched i mean you know shit's gonna break i mean that it's an alpha right but i but yeah you're right remix i remember it being particularly bad and and like you couldn't get in or is that what it was that we couldn't get in there was also some of the which i felt you know design issues in the first alpha the way we could only way we could get around travel around was with these space taxes that's right that's right oh that's right oh my god and that just sends me well you know okay with apex i remember and now that you're saying that i remember when we were starting to get information from that you know and we'll talk a little i'm going to later about the kind of behind the scenes stuff i remember when we first got that thinking about well how is that going to work is it are we before they told us it was going to be like a ship that you would fly and it was like well are you just going to teleport because surely you're not going to just sit there for 10 minutes watching the game fly you somewhere like i literally remember there no no there's no way it wasn't so much about the taxes yourself but rather they're thinking you know what what what went on that led them right thinking that was an okay idea or a good idea and if they're thinking along those sort of lines what does it mean for the rest of the game clarification you had to sit in game and have it run while you are being transported because if you quit the main menu well the ship you know whatever it was in the super cruise it would uh sort of drop out and then resume once you're logged back in yeah that was the first week of uh all for basically to offered only the on-foot experience and you know that traveling thing uh a week two they gave the small ship i think it was uh eagle and uh sidewinder or something like that and then third week it was everything unlocked your uh account was copied and and the fourth one was basically the same thing but uh the only thing that they didn't show in alpha was engineering and i remember specifically that day and i think the last time when this round table happened a year back exigius uh i remember i've i i think i even mentioned and kind of poked fun at the uh that your old quote during alpha uh well we don't know if we saw 90 or nine percent of the alpha yeah so it's uh i don't know that's right that's right it was edit yeah you're absolutely right because it was okay guys how are we going to evaluate this right have we seen and it turned out we had seen i mean not 90 but a large percentage or you know it's certainly where where things were thinking and going right and i also remember the thing that was so again what were they thinking you guys remember the system that we started in how this one of the stations was what was it like 300 000 light seconds away or even more right so it was it was especially brutal to do anything because it was like a 30-40 minute super cruise flight but as you said you couldn't yeah with the furthest travel distance didn't they yep yep well and also the missions back then wouldn't tell you the distance but when you took the mission which you know they added which is nice right so you take a mission and unless you i remember there were posts on reddit like okay if you're in if you're at this part of the system only take these missions to these stations you know and we once again had to figure that out right because nobody had thought you know maybe they don't want to sit for 30 to 40 minutes right after logging in for the first time right because you'd literally start oh hey let's take a mission and do this you'd go get on apex and what it's how far away and that that's your that i remember that was my first experience and those early streams yeah that's right god i remember that launch day stream just you couldn't play because we just sat there waiting yeah you know yeah i remember you logged in but if you managed to get in yeah and then got kicked out like um at 30 minutes later and then when you try to get back in and that's when the fun started yeah so i i managed that first 13 minutes and it's like uh yep that's that's the evening for me bye oh boy right oh uh moving on moving on moving on during the alpha i remember uh well we can quickly comment on one actually two specific things and that is the first one was during alpha people had extremely negative uh take on uh the new exo biology or basically space legs discovery or well exploration mode which was what was it it was a circle matching but with real reflex you remember that people had yeah you have to time it correctly the minigame and you give the minigame where you need good reflexes to people who specifically probably avoid any kind of a skill based gameplay and choose knowledge based stuff i remember a scorpio specifically uh talking about this and and i was thinking well you're right yeah it's stupid gameplay on its own but just because i can manage it doesn't mean that it's desirable for that type of a player and then it really hit me how could they miss this just this principle that hey you have exploration gameplay that is based on knowledge not [ __ ] skill and you put just what are you doing oh and on top of that if you guys remember the first at least the first day if not the first several days it was basically broken so it was so twitchy you had to be so incredibly precise right that you know like i you know i think i'm okay at that sort of silly gameplay it was and it was also like picking a lock more than it was anything else right like if that had been a block skyrim block picking over that [ __ ] yeah not bad comparison yeah and and like i'm actually i'm sure you're gonna chime in the same i'm kind of you know curious your thoughts from back then being i think of certainly this group the bigger i mean look what you're doing right now the bigger explorer right yeah you as the explorer what was your take on it well yeah again again it just goes back to what i said about the um the taxi travels if you look the places now where people are talking about the early days in odyssey kind of in hindsight you see sort of the hindsight comments on the forums or on reddit and you see frontier even mention it i think it's important to understand there's a distinction between the all the troubles that odyssey had at launch there was the technical troubles which i think most people are willing to talk about and even frontier themselves will say you know all the technical troubles we're talking about that he had later but there was also the design issues and that's the stuff that you know a lot of people don't see it all blended together and i think for me back then that uh minigame the exploration minigame looking for the plants was another sign of frontiers thinking you know if they're doing this and this is what they consider exploration to be is there actually going to be any exploration content or is that it yeah you know and actually just a question along that line again for you specifically and how much of the xena is it xenobiology helicopter it's exobiology exo thank you thank you how much of that have you personally actually done do you have any real i'm assuming you're not elite in that or am i am i wrong i've done none of this there's no interest in any of it yeah i better touch or to content i've really got no interest in that i've said it said it before you know it's yeah okay yeah i i think i've i don't think i've ever turned in anything at the xeno thing or at the uh at the xenobiology thing literally i don't think i have ever done it it's spectacular and the funny thing is also that uh during alpha they did realize very quickly that basically everyone hated it like nothing i've ever seen hated in elites community literally and they quickly got the message they removed that gameplay replaced it with uh just scan this plant go literal kilometers away and scan another plant like that and do it another time for three times right and that was the new gameplay they did say that later down the line if we discover a better gameplay we're gonna put it in well spoiler alert it's a year later and uh it's still the same yeah then moving on i remember it was so bizarre that rather than kind of fix or update it in some way it like to your point amex it just it just left and nothing came back to replace it it was just well that didn't work let's yank it out and you you have to wonder although it didn't seem like there was a lot invested in that feature anyway right how much you know how much time in man hours and coding and development everything was just wasted and then just just poof you know just gone oh by the end of it we literally get just alone yeah yeah oh god there we are but anyways quickly moving on then to the last piece of pre-release aspect of uh well odyssey and that was realization during alpha that now developers uh talked about it and specifically cgs this is going to be for you that vr is no more whatever vr we got was the development we are going to get for vr and what uh well vr adaptation did they add for you know odyssey was gonna be it and no more development on that side of things so since you are the resident uh privileged goggle enthusiast do tell us what [ __ ] yeah yeah you know yes i mean that obviously you know another huge nail because those i've seen several people in chat even you know during this talking about how you know it it still in a lot of ways is is you know one of the i don't think anymore we can call it the premier vr experience it certainly was i would call this and you know i mean it's it's certainly still up there right i it's it's i mean other than say racing sims i don't think there's much else that gets it gets as immersive right um and by the way i'm a seated vr player for those that are kind of standing you know arizona sunshine type of stuff that's just not my jam but i think that uh yeah yeah fair enough fair enough and nothing against it's just not my jam um and so i think that while while it i understand part of the argument of well do you really want space legs in vr well yes actually but i kind of get that a little bit but to me it was the cop-out right it was and especially given what feels like it's actually so close you know those that are vr players know that if you you know if you jump into the third first person camera you can kind of play odyssey in vr of course you can't interact with anything you can't do anything right so it seemed like one of those things that was a why would you not do this right this has always been the huge bread and butter i've said in chat a couple times today one of the main reasons i haven't jumped into star citizen is lack of vr right and so you know i i kind of get where some people would not want to walk around in vr but you know what there's also a huge number of us that do um i think i will also say i i mean i guess it maybe comes down to all this does financial decisions and stuff i remember putting a poll up at one point asking you know who how many people play in vr and yeah and i kind of remember that it was like 20 or less like played in vr pretty much like that was their main jam and i was surprised it was maybe 20 it's not right but i was surprised it was as low kind of as it was because again for me elite is a vr game um so yeah i mean it was just another one of those and you know we'll get to this in a little bit like console a little bit of oh boy why wait a minute this is what the game is right and i've even had people just friends i was chatting with recently that that you know left the game years and years ago said something about odyssey well you know they took vr out of it well no they didn't take vr out but that was the perception that it left with people right yeah the same vr that was always there was there yeah but people got this false in this case and for impression that vr was done right and while that's not true vr was done from the sense of there was no further development on it right now i'm glad that they did just be straight up honest and say look it is not coming right instead of feeding us bs okay at least you're being straight with us in that regard which is pretty rare when it comes to them but again it just was such a it's so close it does not seem like this would be that much more work here we are a year later it seems like that could have been something that would have helped salvage a lot of this right i don't know i know you play some vr what's if what's your take well i think this is probably we'll go into some subjects we'll get into later i think there's a lot going on that frontier whatever reason hasn't discussed the garden development of the game and i think they had a lot of roadblocks and a lot of hurdles and we probably never know the reason they didn't develop vr for odyssey but i suspect there's probably you know technical reasons of resource reasoning oh maybe a multitude of reasons yep yeah it just seems like that went on there and we're probably never gonna yeah well fair enough yeah when it comes to vr specifically um it was just basically a realization that it was dead essentially at that point um and the the thing with vr is essentially there was no change ever since basically multi crew was included and that was years back so we just didn't know that it was dead uh but then again to commit as much resources to make essentially uh well closest comparison we have no man's sky we are i would say that that would have taken quite a bit of uh yeah resources from from from from uh developers so can i understand why they chose not to continue it but it's still rock in a hard place as they say right so what you're gonna do right moving on right all right um right actually in the pre-release i suppose exceeds you can go into that behind the scenes stuff because uh at the release it was already over by the time so you got the flow yeah sure so and just quickly yeah you haven't seen you've got some spam yeah if you blocked it or not but yeah okay cool um so yeah so a little bit of the story so and i think i think most of this is you know has been is publicly known so leading up to odyssey and this must have started roughly a year earlier um they finally did a an insider group they called it the road to odyssey right and it was a pretty big group um i don't know and 30 of us or so something like that in that neighborhood including content creators that weren't elite focused right names because if people didn't announce it they didn't announce it sorry sorry it was easier to name people that weren't there namely yours truly and maybe a few other ones and everyone else was in the pilot yeah pilot comes to mind so um and so yes so that started about a year on and to what ant said you know that it was a weird mix at first of you know kind of those of us that you would expect i think it was a good mix in terms of the role you know kind of basically every play style was covered you know you had guys from you know from the reddit you had stuart from the reddit you had the um uh i remember right weren't some wasn't somebody from the truckers in there maybe i remember that wrong but you had a lot of different groups like that and then you had a few people in the elite community that were just tiny like a couple hundred sub type channels right that were a little okay you know and not not that those people don't have valid opinions um but then and then to to your point aunt you had a lot of outsiders and i get that they wanted to pull in because of what we found out that group became they wanted to pull in you know star citizen guys right like hey you know look what we're doing maybe make content about us right and so i remember from the very first message that i got i replied back and said you know this is great would love to be involved right to be clear i have one goal my one goal is to impact the quality of odyssey and and help make it as good as it can be right like i you know i don't think i directly said that i don't care about pr something like that which i didn't right but my goal and hope was that okay you have finally brought together a group covering all the different play styles all the different opinions from you know care bears to not just murder hobos but to you know pvpers you've got kind of the whole gambit here awesome this is what the game in my opinion is needed for a long time and that went absolutely nowhere i if i'm right and ant can correct me other than the the night that right where we were supposed to get early access to the game which didn't happen instead we got it i think it was about a two-hour meeting with the developers and got to ask questions which the vast majority of never got answered right we we got that instead of getting access to it and so it it rather than them asking us a single question of hey here's what we're thinking what do you guys think right never once and correct me if i'm wrong aunt did that happen right it was very little here's what you're going to get you know we would get things you know i remember some of the forum posts we got 10 minutes advance notice right you know not not a day not not a couple days not anything right just like very strange for most of them we got a little more than that right but there was absolutely no and this is i think for a long time players know it there was no what do you guys want right it was still very much the we know we're we're we're the kings at this we're gonna give you what you're gonna love and we just we know better right we don't need to get any input from you guys right and as the program went through and that became you know more and more apparent um i i certainly personally got less and less interested i think i made maybe two videos from you know early stuff that they released and well to be clear you know pr stuff is important and you know getting your message out is important and stuff right it felt to me from when we first heard about the program that yeah that was part of it and yeah we were worried maybe that's all it would be but that wasn't necessarily and maybe that's just me being naive that how was pitched or what certainly what we hoped from it right um i remember at some point a little further in we all met with um i'm not going to name names of anybody frontier guys but we met with somebody at frontier to talk about our thoughts on the program and our thoughts on everything right and i literally put together like a 10 slide presentation because i wanted all of my thoughts together i wanted to be able to give them something that had concrete here's what's going to happen and i remember in that is if you don't do these things if you don't ask the community what they want if you don't get input from us and from other people this is going to fail and guess what that fell on completely and totally deaf ears right the person i met with you know we went through it that it was it was you know at the time a good conversation i sent it to other people and didn't even get a hey this is great hey thanks or even an acknowledgement that had been sent right and from that point forward to me is when i realized yep this is this is and we all did this is just about pr this they they can i've said this for years they do not care what you want right they think they know best they have always been that way right and there was absolutely no give and take right and so i think for me at that point you know it was okay well now let's just watch along and what are we going to get out of this i hoped at the time we would get really access in fact and i remember saying something to you and this must have been it was at least three months if not six months before odyssey release saying if we don't if we're not playing this now we can't give any input right because you know if it's two weeks out well that's way too late i mean they can the only change they can make as we talked about with the exploration mechanic is just to remove something right there's there's there's nothing that's going to change and i think yeah if you remember that and i think that's you know i i'm not going to say that i predicted it was going to fail or something like that but at the time it was hey guys if you're not listening to us if you don't want this kind of input and i just can't imagine you know i i i've been a musician my whole life i've been artistic my whole life and i know that to succeed in something artistic you have got to get direct blunt feedback from people right what is it you want what is it what is it i can do better you don't want to get that you get where we are now i'm sorry you know i was just making a joke yeah ant is there because i definitely had a few more thoughts as i get to the end here but anything to add in there like what was your experience at that time you know you want to make a point about that and you should finish your point there for me i kind of saw the whole program in a different light to you we've spoken about that before and i know frontier for them it was an exercise in pr and from my previous experience with frontier at the time i wasn't yeah from my previous experience with frontier i wasn't expecting them to uh accept much in the way of feedback from it i think it was more of a case of them just saying this is how it is and yeah it makes it nice to accept that yeah and you know i mean hey look their company they can do what they want obviously right you know i feel like i was trying as early as i could to say if you don't do this this is not going to be what the community wants and i i think i was proven to be right about that right um so then to to kind of get to the end of my little story here not going forever right so during the program early on there were you know a couple little minor leaks there were a couple problem things you know those kind of got addressed right then i don't i don't even remember the specifics here but leading up to the release of odyssey there was i don't even remember what it was but there was another leak and i remember the time thinking it was relatively minor and then and basically the message we got was hey if we can't find out what's going on here we're just gonna shut this down and that's exactly what they did and i think it was literally i was certainly less than two weeks if not a week from the launch of odyssey they stopped all communication with us everything just ended right so right as we launched like we're all just like you know we've got all these questions all these things it'd be great to get information on to be able to share with our communities and it just all stopped not only our communities but educate their customers exactly exactly exactly because i remember to that point gamik's win you know i talked a second ago about when fleet carriers launched i remember when fleet carriers launched and i think that was when and again i don't want to really name names here necessarily but this is an old guy i think that was when will was still leading the team right i think that was before the the new guard was on right and i remember that day like dude i was getting messages from will just like we'd have a question hold on guys let me see if you get the end it wasn't just me right he was he was doing that for you or for aunt for uh astro for all of us right and we well of course not for you right we were getting information really quickly and it was great because that you know the audience was coming to us and they had questions and what's this going to be like and we were able to give them answers and the communication i remember that day like at the end of that being like wow that was awesome right like boy i hope it stays this way and it it obviously didn't right to one of the notes that vic yama had on the plan how many times have we heard i actually tried to i should have gone through and tried to actually figure this out through all their messages how many times have we heard we're going to communicate more oh no oh no oh we can start counting down this is going to take a whole stream but but the point is yeah like it's happened time and time and time again every time there's some sort of uproar and that usually doesn't you know take long to be there uh their standard response is that we're gonna communicate more cut cut a few weeks later or [ __ ] a month that's it that's all the communication you got there yeah we get you know you get a couple streams a couple this you know a couple i mean wasn't there going to be a bunch of dev diaries and all that kind of stuff leading up to launch i know there were a few and then after and it just it all just it just evaporates it seems like every time right it's it's this you know it's this cycle of okay we screwed up okay somebody apologizes i i think you've even got the braven apology on the list somewhere right we have stuff like that and then very quickly after that it's just right back to as aunt told me you know as we were chatting before this right they stopped the live streams again because there's nothing for them to say right and oh that's going to be in the year leading up to today but yeah basically that right uh any other things or we can move on no no no yeah okay all right so so then let's move on to quickly skim over the release period uh so that we can actually get into the meat of things uh since the last creators roundtable was specifically about the launch uh you can rewatch that uh somewhere on my end and a few other creators who streamed it at that time but in any case uh now as for the release so basically it releases and everyone rather may 19th 2021 lee dangerous odyssey releases in full we get all the features available to us which basically was just basically uh engineers unlocked additionally to what we got already and everyone realized alpha performance was also on release maybe slightly better but that's literally uh zero point whatever percent there that was performance that was the feature list that was it uh thoughts on the launch quickly yeah why don't you jump in first the launch was pretty much exactly what i expected it to be oh we yeah well we we saw um what was going on with the last alpha it was a strange thing actually i know there was quite a bit of conversation and again this was something you could see on the forums i don't know if it had happened elsewhere but there was a certain belief from some people that the alpha release was one build and the final release was going to be some completely different build and this is a conversation i remember happening back during 2014 as well uh elite dangerous was in a testing phase for about a year it started in alpha in company remember oh god it was april 29th april 2013 wasn't it yeah yeah oh you mean the original game yeah all right dangerous yeah in the end it went through multiple phases and ended up with a gamma phase and the gamma phase was basically what was going to be the release candidate but back then again there was the same conversation that it's just what people were terming as a vertical slice that what we were seeing in the gamma was just a small portion of the overall release and that you know when elite dangerous was finally released it was a carbon copy of the gamma there was no extra content that frontier had held back and for some reason the same belief happened again with odyssey people thought that somehow the um the final release of odyssey was going to be a much improved version of the alpha and full expectation on performance i i honestly put my trust i appreciate that performance yeah that's that's different but i was thinking in terms of content as well you know that we were just getting a small slice and there was some game play some mission types some station types some planet types all these sort of things out frontier were holding back i'm sure perhaps anyone that remembers this don't tell you i i wasn't expecting any more than that except for engineers so yeah it for me it was looking grim on the content side of things but uh i expect the performance to be at least you know pretty much without getting any way but what i what we got was pretty much what i was expecting aside from the performance issues which like itself i was hoping and expecting would have um you know improved yeah and i think that goes you know with with what you're saying about like what we got and stuff it goes back to um to what yamics was i think gammaxx was saying earlier in terms of had we seen nine percent or ninety percent right that was the buddy yeah well no no i'm saying you you you said that about you brought that up early is what i mean right and a buddy dm'd me in discord while we were chatting a second ago and he said remember what you were so pissed off about at launch was exactly that right was that there there wasn't game play that we'd hoped had been held back because we hadn't you know seen all that much right nope we we had seen it all right and yeah i mean there was more station types and things like that you know which are just new kind of procedural layouts of the same puzzle pieces right just like you know with the the fleet carrier interiors well it's just new the same puzzle pieces just in a different arrangement kind of thing right station interiors there's there's what four or really there's two layouts right there's the big stations and little stations right that's pretty much it they're different colored right and so i think that's for me where the biggest disappointment at launch was it was yeah this this this really is it and it performs like [ __ ] right yeah well uh as with a launch happened we quickly got also literal apology quote-unquote apologies from mr bremen himself as the development team pulled in the ceo of the company saying oh hey this performance is not working blah blah blah mostly it was performance but the content if not for the performance the content would definitely be dogged i mean sure it wouldn't be as horrible you know and on steam and so and so forth but it wouldn't be reflective of the price of 40 euros or was it 60 uh dollars and what so yeah no so those apologies just didn't work yeah and i can't remember i think even though i don't even know if he apologized for the content itself i think you know no no he didn't he basically yeah he he basically said that the apology is to who suffers from bad performance it's like hey if you're stupid enough that you don't realize that on your hyper giga pc 60 fps of this garbage is not okay well then thanks sucker basically that sort of attitude which is well i mean okay i'm i'm reading perhaps too much into the political answer there but it still is disgusting as a customer consumer you know to have that sort of attitude laid on to you and basically how bad it was it was so bad that the performance did not meet their own standards of officially released spec machines that is minimum spec machines running at 30 frames a second on the whatever settings doesn't matter which ones but at least 30 minimum and and recommended was 60 fps minimum to this day you know and looking back on it for me that pops in my head it was also the while odyssey is arguably prettier right there's some nicer graphics in it and stuff it wasn't like the performance hit that we got wasn't commensurate with the quality bump in graphics right it's not like all of a sudden the game is twice as good looking and so it's half the performance right it's like marginally better looking right and half the performance and so i think that yeah for from a player's perspective was the frustration it still is the frustrating part right like if i'm going to play if i'm going to play in vr i go play horizons because the performance is absolutely much better yep i absolutely do that constantly yeah yeah and there there are a few nice things in in odyssey that that you miss right i can't remember has horizons they haven't added the shield and hope or the shield percentage in horizons have they nope they're the uis yeah very good in the yes yeah yeah yeah so the little stuff like that that you want from odyssey that makes you want to play odyssey it's in no way worth you know the massive performance tank you get from it if you're not going to play on foot right which personally i yeah even if you're getting 60 frames a second what's the point in literally burning electricity pointlessly and or your graphics card generally speaking basically getting you know just just the same results why why why waste extra energy from your pc that's my usual sort of uh sort of excuse for playing horizons even though i rather prefer more frames even though for streaming it's doesn't matter for streaming i prefer just simply more stable stuff anyways right uh so on the launch let's see oh yes right on on the launch of course developers did promise to communicate more and we'll get to that uh now a year later how much of that promise did they actually uh come through with and uh the last little thing was well here's here's my little topic is that essentially as the odyssey dropped they basically spammed their store with microtransactions the shitty skins just marked up for prices and so and so forth which i find particularly disgusting and i can go into the topic as to why but we're not here today to you know discuss that uh abusive nonsense of just nickel and diming you for a paid product on top of it so let's get into the first year or rather let's skip a year later and what do we have well i how about this i'll be the positive guy today and i'll get into the things that we received during this whole 12-month period right so uh to quickly go over it uh performance wise uh i'll leave that but yeah basically it is slightly better than it is but it's spoilers worse than the recommended spec machines or minimum spec machines still so yes it is slightly better but it's not even barely good enough for the their own standards so that's where we're at still however on the good sides they added emotes you know the animations for your character uh that you can do okay which were not on the launch and um whatever we're going to talk about that perhaps as well later then they added mega ship interiors and fleet carrier interiors finally uh and then there was story i i guess in the background in horizons as well the azimuth saga was going on but uh obsidian as somebody who is probably more inclined for the story aspect of it of austria your thoughts on the story in this period i've not got a lot to say about that to be perfectly honest okay just the time i've really enjoyed the story for a league dangerous was when there was a lot of um you know a lot being a lot to be in a relative term but when there was more in-game content that was reflective of what was going on so like when the um the thyroid puzzled and then the thyroid bases ah yes yes that was the active period yeah first thyroid hypertype addiction yeah that was the best time absolutely that that one moment it could be you know the best thing ever written and i you know they're coming across too negative about it but if there's little to no game content to go along with it then i don't really pay that much attention to i know we get there is community goals with it i believe there's been a few little modules here and there to do with it but yeah and the dual engineer modules have been called yeah there's been credit for a few things yeah yeah i hate the dual engineered stuff but okay that's a balanced issue and design issues there's different ways of looking on it yes but it's better than nothing but this is that is that good you know well i mean let's also remember that nothing isn't exactly praise is it when does this no that's not a reflection in the quality of the azimuth saga i don't i'm not saying it's good or bad i'm just saying that there's nothing in the game to go or not enough to go in the game along with it which to me is just unfortunate and when was it let's also remember i i can't remember if it was leading up to honesty or after odyssey that they i guess it was leading up to odyssey where they stopped all community goals for like what like a year uh it was a couple of months i think at least uh was it okay was it not okay okay okay i think it might be like two years i'm sure it might be number one i thought it was right because one of my most fun game plays i've talked about this a lot in the past is i loved pvp piracy right and the place to pvp pirate is at a community goal and so when community goals stopped you know like my main fun game play dried up right because there was you know so other than maybe you'd find people mining but that would be tough too right so it was i remember particularly being frustrated and i was never the type that followed the story right and i just i never got into that but to the point you guys made i remember the first night the first thyroid um ruins or uh guardian ruins were found right i remember all of us rushing down there and how just incredibly cool and atmospheric it was and it's still is lovely absolutely right but the high predictions man i mean honestly the two big memories i have with this game you know we all have those moments in gaming that i think we'll kind of never forget i remember when i first started playing the game i'd been playing only a few hours i was playing in vr i had my audio system super loud and crank along and i get interdicted for the first time having no clue what the hell is going on right and i remember just like oh my god this is so awesome and the same experience with the first high predictions right and it's a shame we don't have those anymore because that old high prediction cuts it was wonderful behind oh it was so creepy and wonderful the new ones by comparison are just names you want just when you've got that curated content i think yeah yeah when elite just works so well they've made an amazing galaxy with elite they have there's no denying that yes and yes curated content those moments was i don't know if if you guys are into dungeon dragons or tablets oh i do play it i like it yeah it was a little bit like that wasn't it you've got the um yeah you've got the gal net in form of the text and dungeon master explaining the story and then you've got these moments where you've got the curated content coming in which is folding out of that story that's been set and azimuth saga is just at least at the moment it's not that but hopefully that's where it's going yeah when it comes to story specifically i've been a proponent of a simple mechanic that has been part of every rpg game out there that potentially could include elite dangerous and that was these wonderful things called quests whenever i talk with developers or at least people who are you know at least higher up in the change shall we say uh whenever i had met you know people around though those events uh community events and so on and so forth in real life uh you know the the word quest comes out and it feels like they they shy away from it they either are afraid of it or just don't know how to utilize it but just curated quests would have added such a wonderful way of storytelling and giving players something to either replay or just simply experience the galaxy in a curated way but no let's not utilize that and to this day it's still not there but you know that's just my anyways that's a tangent there regardless uh story-wise uh the bottom line is why i put it in it's mostly a joke because it really is nothing elite story really it only peaked with targoids because actually something happened besides stupid [ __ ] text in gal net that you can't observe in game or stupid [ __ ] text that is read out to you in a decent and sometimes even good voice acted the way which is slightly better but that's it that's kind of the problem with the elite story that it really is just some it feels like literally somebody is telling you about the dnd game that they had where you were not part of it that's how elite story feels like so there you go that's just my take on it does on its own until you have those other moments of content like you know we're talking about just now the hype addictions the thyroid bases the thyroid machines i think all those sort of things add to it immensely i'd like to see what that stuff that you can actually go and do or replay those things actually add to the experience imagine that but anyways uh a year later as i said previously we got the emotes and mega ship and fleet area interiors now the interesting thing that i and of course now you can also sit down on chairs as well i forgot to write then button right these features i kind of would expect on the [ __ ] launch right so first things first right this is a my big biggest pet peeve kind of on the launch you have fleet carriers which are designed to be player made mega or player organized [ __ ] big ships for other players right so you would think this social device feature would feature a social hub which is uh the no basically a station interior it didn't on the launch and what more in the social hub that was the station whenever you got into station all social activity that you could do was look at someone crouch and move about not even jump you couldn't sit down on anything and most of all emotes were not there i honestly it boggles my mind how could they be so just i don't know dismissive or rushing or whatever they were doing not to include social activities for the social hubs that they designed to be for social stuff ah it pisses me off even today a year later thinking about it and now that we've got it added finally it's just it's basically a bit too late but better better than nothing i guess don't expect a you know clap clap from me though anyways any thoughts guys if not moving on i think it's reflective of just the whole odyssey situation it just feels to me as though there was no overall plan for odyssey it was just kind of clumped feels like there's no one global in a vision for it at least that's what it feels like to me there's just a lot of things missing a lot of poor decisions were made a lot of mistakes were made and i know you know people as i've seen some people in chat i think we're kind of hating on our lead and hate to not oversee but you know if that's how you see it and call it like us like you see it that's what i always say and i wake up sunshine this is reality yeah i just feel that's what went on there was i don't know did the odyssey change project managers halfway through or hard to say did it change designers who knows what went on it just feels as though it was not carefully orchestrated not carefully planned out do your lack of emotes you say are a great example creating a social place without the ability to sit down creating a social space without the ability to mode yeah it goes back to the earlier ideas that we mentioned you know the mini game again for the uh exploration it doesn't match what exploration is about the taxes where you're in them for ages it just all feels not players focused you know not just not well full-time you're playing an npc congratulations yeah well you know as you were saying all that and it popped into my head what happened with and this might i mean this might be a little divisive but what happened with the star wars franchise right it seemed pretty clear leading up to episode nine there was no pre-plan for episode seven eight and nine and what that whole story was gonna be right you know we get seven which is basically new hope you get eight which is its own completely different thing love it or hate it i hate it but love it or hate it and then nine which just retcons all that and just kind of goes back and and in the same vein it just seemed like that what that things like that weren't thought all the way through right or again we've talked a couple things some of those decisions along the way you know seemed very questionable and i'll maintain it's still because you know they they just don't get input from the community right and and by that i mean oh no they get plenty of input i can guarantee you that on my own yeah exactly you had this you know you had this group as i've said earlier i think any game would kill for the for the community that elite has right the die hards in this community third party supports supporters alone alone right right and if people you know aunt said a second ago about us being negative or whatever and yeah of course we're being critical that's i mean that's kind of what you do with things like this anyway right but if there's any doubt that the three of us [ __ ] love this game let's get rid of that because you wouldn't know who we are if we didn't right so i've always kind of that's that's always rugged me the wrong way that's all you hate a leader blood ever you know those i find those comments so incredibly ignorant right because if i hated this game i wouldn't have spent the thousands of hours playing it and making content for it you know and interacting with the community like all of us have done right so you know i've said this so many times we are critical because we love it right not the other way around right just just just to get that off my chest a little bit i always kind of felt that that was uh quite obvious but oh well well sadly sometimes you have to point out the option doesn't it it should be obvious but okeydokey yeah just to be clear right yes because we love it anyways uh well uh there is actually one thing that i forgot quote unquote to mention as the last feature that genuinely felt like a post-launch feature content that was given to the players exeges since you haven't you know uh followed up on elite dangerous can you guess which one that boss or maybe you know i'm guessing and i was reading chat so i might have missed you a little bit i'm guessing you're referring to star citizen and everybody moving on to that is that no no no no what the new oh slash content did elite odyssey get in its fierce first year that didn't seem like it was planned on release and you know uh i'm not following you buddy ship uh fleet carry interiors but i'm guessing that's not where you're going nope that was a i mean finally after what what is it six years now yeah six years technically since uh release we got finally a new srv oh oh yeah okay fair enough yeah there you go we got a new srv a scorpion srv which uh arguably they promised already new srvs on horizons let's not forget that they promised it and it came from braven himself but uh now we got a new srv which is the only piece of content i can genuinely say that was a new content added post launch on odyssey that wasn't supposed to or at least shouldn't have been you know already on the launch yeah that's all i really were in and we got an srv there you go well if you remember i can't remember when it was maybe it was even at launch you know there was all the leaks and i remember putting out a video kind of having predictions of what we might get and you know all that stuff you know on foot thyroids and new srvs and new ships and to your point we got an srv yeah yay and it's nice to have a two-player srv you know don't get me wrong right i mean nice to have but right you know we still don't have i mean let's also talk about the things that we that you know that frontier has always done a great such terrible job with is adding a feature and once that feature is there and they've checked the box okay we've done that that's it there's no with with rare exceptions of them coming back around engineering post release support yeah uh uh yeah let's talk about multi-crew for example oh no but still oh no it doesn't work right yes going back to that i remember the day multi-crew launched and we were all like what you can't multi-crew the srv what you can't mix wings and multi-crew i remember people and i was very much there's i think this before yeah this is before i started my channel i was very much the ra ra happy day guy i was like oh guys don't worry it just got released you know give them some time you know that'll absolutely come and here we are literally four years later and those basic basic features no still don't have them oh wait no you're actually right they added something in light of the new space legs they added another space seat in the bigger ships so that you can accommodate four people in the ship right there you go right what the anaconda corvette cutter uh maybe the type 10 and type nine anyway anyway yeah we got the extra seat yeah i don't know if people are trying to use multi-crew and it's great it's been a while since i tried it but i every single time i've tried it i don't think i have ever had a just smooth successful multi-crew experience and then the person's you know at a station way back and it's you know i mean it's just it's always been a nightmare for me and i like for me and i think this is another poll i put up that i was a little surprised about the results of i see elite as a social game right i know ant i think you primarily play solo is that right yep yep okay i play solo too okay okay for me i almost other than when i would grind mats or something or you know something for a video or something for me elite was always a social game right i i you know i was always in a wing with somebody or doing pvp or doing something with friends right and so for that you know for multi-crew to be as bad as it was and to for what it could have been right which is you know the experience you get in star citizen to a degree right and to have never gotten that still has always just been a big disappointment for me yeah multicrew is quite a beast shall we say oh boy that yeah that's that's a hurry oh boy oh but anyways um we talked about that very subject quick amex of the um the srv you mentioned yes did you see on the recent live stream maybe someone mentioned to you about that that one of the developers on i think it was a designer actually and he mentioned that the srv the scorpion was designed years ago and they put it on the shelf because when they designed it honestly i'm not surprised but but the funniest thing is folks remember that they put the [ __ ] usrv the scorpion as an exclusive for odyssey so in horizons you can't play it you can't use it oh i didn't realize that actually yeah that's also a thing by the way so there you go enjoy the pain oh what are they doing like just no no i'm absolutely not surprised that scorpion was uh shelled honestly there are probably a few other ones yeah basically they said they didn't have suitable content for it at the time and wanted to hold it back until until they did they're also mentioning there's other content there like that that they've sort of developed and they stick on the shelf so maybe wasn't there wasn't there a rumor of a mining ship launch fighter yes yes yes signing ship on fire it has a awesome it has a model but uh yeah it's it's somewhere in the game files i've i've leaked it couple of times uh so yeah yeah i even have a picture somewhere in my older videos yeah that's what i thought that's what i thought there's the well speaking of leaks you know the content that we're waiting still for uh odyssey and i suppose we're getting into the future part of uh yeah odyssey but regardless i already discovered it a while back basically it is the titan target and something something to do about it with new stuff but we'll see whether you know what happens with that and that new content uh but uh but yeah basically this in the first year all the new content that we really got that you know was not supposed to be or at least shouldn't have been on the release was sorry that's the point right uh right all right uh quickly to move on then to let's see ah right in the last creator rounds for a round table paroxysm was part of the discussion uh one of the older uh streamers video creators and so so forth he mentioned uh well we were talking about ai skimmed through the stream and so he mentions ai and i personally being a first person shooter fan uh noticed a lot of issues and well both in design and uh functionality problems with the uh ai uh and other things of the fps but uh he specifically mentioned a i and uh well he mentions that well hey uh you know they will fix the ai because it's still [ __ ] and guess what a year later now it's still [ __ ] and in fact in copy you mean on foot ai one foot on ai on foot for fps gameplay it's [ __ ] it truly is [ __ ] um and the funny thing is that performance actually is heavily impacted because of the ai it seems because in conflict zones uh when two sides are fighting each other uh the frame rates drop the lowest in any conflict zone and that's where the lack of that frame rate actually properly shows itself that's why you can't claim that the game is running according to their standards because that crucial part that crucial gameplay is still subpar and performance wise and once that conflict zone is done once everyone is dead or when it ends you know one side wins ai returns to normal and all of a sudden frame rates improve by a noticeable margin so it well at least i speculate personally that the ai is partially to be blamed but it's not the only one and we'll we're gonna get into performance in just a bit so uh yeah ai hasn't changed so that's the year's retrospective hasn't changed sorry peroxisome but uh here we are um you know just briefly on that let me just one quick thing i remember right as i think it was in the alpha i remember talking with you ant about the ai and we all trying to because i think i remember at first the the the in the you know the on foot ai would basically see you no matter where you were they could track you through walls all of that right you know and going back yeah right going back and forth from just completely broken to then them being so stupid that you could just you know easily walk right up behind them they'd have no clue you were there there was no way to you know like you'd think of a game at the time i was playing a lot of ghost recon right and it goes recon you know if somebody sees you you're starting to get notification you know you know that that's happening and there was it was there is none of that right so there was just no way to know and and then it was like well is there a way to know that they're there or you you detect somebody they'd show up on your mini-map and then they'd go away and i think that that's all still a problem to this day right it's just all so unbelievably basic right yeah ai doesn't even seem that interesting either so no agreed it's it's disheartening frankly speaking so here we are basically uh a year later and uh well not much has changed now he has it oh well right um right so that was the ai uh oh gods and here we go with uh big drops there right so we're gonna get into the really sad parts now a year later or rather a couple of well months before a year rolled around developers come out and announce after a indefinite delay for consoles that consoles are no longer being developed for an indefinite cancellation is being announced so that those that don't understand basically that means they are not putting odyssey on uh consoles until something really changes or well unlikely overall at all might as well expect it i mean they said at this point that it's it will it's kind of basically okay that's what that is yeah it said the indefinite cancellation so what are the chances the performance is going to improve so uh that is taken in as a complete cancellation so fun times so uh yeah that also includes further development on yep horizons as well they get bug fixes and i assume they get community goals but no no new content right right so yeah the only version that is being developed is pc odyssey so pc horizons is not being developed either so any horizons right so there you go and i do i just determine i do think it's really cool that they did the the you know transfer your console to pc thing you know that i that was a good thing that they did right i want to be fair to them when they do good stuff right give them a free copy of horizons to control players that transfer yep yep yep yep so that's that's i'm glad that they did that right but i think it was the obviously the the you know the jaw drop of you know we've been waiting with this expectation for you know six nine months and then just you know bam and it seemed clear that that the reason was they just can't straight up make it work right i think there's got to be so much technical debt you know there's got to be so much spaghetti code in there that it just you know i mean hell they can't make the game perform well on a 3080 right let alone how the hell are you going to do it on xbox somebody in in your chat aunt brought up um um cyberpunk right very similar situation right and of course they weren't developing for the new gen consoles either right though no cyberpunk actually turned out pretty decent in the end but well that counts it works pretty well now i know a lot of people are working is one thing the design and the gameplay feel is still [ __ ] the crafting system i [ __ ] hate uh the rpg system for shooter is just horrible but okay that's my to be fair though to look at it from another point of view it's getting fairly decent reviews now right uh it's it's getting average but it's nowhere near certainly the pipe and you know no basically yeah the level it was you know hyped up to be at all so yeah it i mean it's so rare for a game to you know to recover from from a launch like that really the only game i truly can think of that just completely turned it around and i'm guessing you can know where i'm going yeah no man's sky right i mean you know we went from it's a scam they're just trying to steal from you that's it was only a scam from ever to now it's like holy [ __ ] no it was not and oh my god you know that i mean [ __ ] three four years ago i put out a video that was you know has no man's sky embarrassed elite and that was back then with you know by comparison the little stuff they didn't that had vr yet they didn't have all the mechs they i mean it's it's unreal what hello games has done with that game it is even the recent update they tried recently adding in effectively i know it's just a limited time thing with their expeditions but it's essentially a new game mode with the roguelike elements to leviathan's interesting okay i haven't followed it no i don't have it followed in a long time all right but basically you play through on the expedition you've got a set calls to go through and if you die you reset back to a certain point in that story of the leviathan story and you basically get memory fragments of the previous go around which you can use to restore certain parts of your previous playthrough mm-hmm yeah just just like you know these little things that they're trying out and i've actually got video coming out on this i think it shows that you don't know how the players are going to respond to but hello games just seem to go that extra mile with it and they make it work yep and they just are constantly yeah and they're and their since their release schedule is so rapid and they're constantly bringing out new stuff and constantly there's new game playing constantly there's new stuff added right that it's it's and many of those things are rather small overall that's the thing big things like the thyroids [ __ ] in your face to actually make people interested in what you're making just small little quality of life improvements those things will get me just spunking left and right i guarantee you that but you know hey people want new ships like certain people if you will but yeah or whatever fair enough everyone has you know different strokes for different folks as they say yeah yeah well i think i think it was before when we were chatting right before the stream started writing things like you know if if i'm frontier you know you update you do little stuff along the way to the point of like no man's sky like give us what we now think are realistic black holes and accretion disks right like you know why we still have these just you know blurry ball black holes right like that can't be that much investment you take a graphic designer and a coder you give them a week maybe i'm being super optimistic there maybe it's two maybe it's a month whatever it is right and you you give us those little things right and and while that's little kind of like no man's sky has done over the time those little impacts all add up right and just constantly seeing those little things makes the game feel like it's alive the elite feel like it's alive to anybody listening to my voice um well i'm more partial to the silence right i'm more powerful life improvements but all right not fair enough and even if it's that hammocks right even if you're adding little quality of life stuff along the way it doesn't have to necessarily be a new thing right sure right but but that's not what we get or ever gotten really i want numbers to be evened out engineering um but you know yeah i'll be happier about you know a zero being turned into a 0.1 i [ __ ] you not default bulkheads mass engineering if you know exigius yeah oh yeah yeah yeah there's so much little stuff like that right oh absolutely so yeah with the with the console well returning back to the console uh cancellation essentially yeah as you mentioned basically they are admitting that they can't improve the performance on p well on pc on everywhere literally because the thing is you have to understand really well i've talked about this time and time again so my audience probably will understand this but regardless the point is because they cannot develop on consoles it doesn't mean that they can't develop for the new gen consoles no because frontier advertised odyssey only on old generation that this playstation that piss box 4 and the xbone that is the old gen consoles they have to well they wanted to use the backwards compat yeah backwards compatibility so that it could be run on the new gents so in order to use that backwards compatibility and that was a relatively smart way to develop a game to save resources and code bases and blah blah blah they had to make it work on all gen consoles problem you need to develop the performance and the fact is they just admitted with the console cancellation they cannot develop good enough so that it would be acceptable performance on old gens and here we are they're cancelling that and additionally also canceling the development on uh pc horizons or just general horizons overall so whatever new content you're gonna get you're gonna get that only on pc and only an odyssey so strap on infos that is pretty poor because that kind of leaves us in the state of just also a realization that if they can't make it random consoles then will performance at all improve from now on to even match their actual standards their recommended spec machines running according to what they you know said it should run on i doubt it with this sort of announcement so well the idea there with them the other consoles there's also the thought or theory you know i don't know how true this is that frontier can't release horizons obviously rather on the new new consoles without also releasing it on previous gen consoles and basically that comes down to a clause in the contract with um microsoft and sony because they've released horizons on the older gen consoles so they can't hold on so clarify that again so in other words they couldn't let me make sure i'm hearing you right because first i've heard something like this and if they wanted to release on xbox series x and ps5 they would also have to release on previous gen because it originally came out on previous gen yeah i'm not sure how true this is for each downloadable content and so forth you can simply it's a product basically it's an add-on product but it's still a product that you can sell later on and generally games tend not to split off stuff but if they really wanted to i think they could have actually just taken uh odyssey what it is on the pc and port it over for the new gen consoles however that would mean that they would have upke upke basically six code bases pc horizons pc odyssey uh old gen console horizons old gen odyssey new gen odyssey nugent horizons they would have to upkeep six code bases that's basically a legal issue yeah i doubt it though but i mean who knows sony are based is basically just big bunch of pricks who don't allow uh cross play because herpa derp pay us money to allow that on your game i should you know i think in other ways can we think of any other game that's on you know mmo live service game that come out on the old consoles that got an update on the new gen but didn't get that updated yeah but it didn't stay real yeah yeah yeah i and i i get what you're doing now did you say that yeah yeah the game has done that and that is disgusting type of a game and that is uh sports games the fifa nonsense and the funny thing is uh i think it was madden 2020 that actually had the new features on the next-gen consoles but not the pc if you watch angry joe joe yeah when you say rant about it it's just how how could you just what the [ __ ] are you doing but you know that's ea and just their disgusting madden series and sports games overall just [ __ ] them all but uh yeah that's just my hand a couple of people in chat online and destiny yeah but at the same time i can definitely see there being some legal issues is kind of what we're getting at right and they probably get very complicated yeah yeah yeah yeah but no basically uh my expectation was that they wanted to do the smart thing and get rid of one extra code base that they need to upkeep and that's why i use the backwards compatibility smart choice overall considering you know you have so many things to upkeep not too hard but still you know it's still upkeep right but now they've decided well hey instead of uh four or six code bases we're gonna cancel that and just up keep one and maybe another one if it really really really needs it so here we are so that's uh yeah that's that's that's what happened this year and there's one more thing that happened this year specifically and uh uh i suppose uh obsidian it's more up your alley but uh feel free to pass a buck what's that ah well you don't don't have my list there okay planet tech remember that oh bye-bye going through something planet tech yeah i've been flying around on uh planets on streams while we've um well we've been talking so frontier said uh probably a month ago back now six weeks maybe that they're not going to fix the current issue with planetary tiling so this is where textures are repeating over planetary surfaces and this was really really bad when odyssey was released but um was fixed somewhat over the updates since the release they added more but they've decided they're not going to fix that and the reason for that is because apparently it's it's going to be a big undertaking and they'd rather focus their efforts elsewhere now for me that's that's not really a major problem i don't see the planetary thailand is a big problem but what i do see as a you know is a big problem is the the planets now are far more bland than they were they're much more flatter absolutely and i think uh less visually interesting and i know some people out there you know other youtubers other content creators they've they've made some very very good videos demonstrating some good areas that are out there i can't think of uh some examples off the top of my head but yeah there's there's not that it's all crap it's not that it's all rubbish it is out there but i think generally speaking now it's much much harder to find the good content in terms of planets yeah there's this thing when i first uh well dropped into the alpha and later on under release and so forth later on you see the recolored planets as well you see the height generation essentially losing that sort of a uniqueness that horizons brought in yes horizons planets were a bit out there shall we say with the heights and and drops and so on so forth but it was interesting to find a testicle planet you know the pomacha2c or something like that and maybe some artifacts as well however now the planet system essentially for me at least you know my brain and everyone's brains are you know kind of good at seeing some patterns and it feels like basically the planet is a sphere and then points are basically drawn out upward and then everything else that is around you know around that is not drawn upward is staying the same flat shape and many channels they just don't seem to have much visual appeal anymore they're not there are no there's no there are two but yeah it kind of feels like it there's a distinct sort of baseline on the planet rather than it being a you know a potato basically looking a small planet rock that you land on it it really feels like it's a smooth sphere with just a couple of vertices being drawn up or down and that being just smoothed it out yeah to your point it's funny you you said it like literally 10 seconds after i typed it in chat somebody mentioned that like the big mountain of dabs hope is gone in odyssey which i actually didn't really know yes that surprised me right right and and as you mentioned what i kind of dubbed testicle moon right and for those that don't know what we're talking about there's a couple moons out there that are just riddled completely covered in literally 20 kilometer deep ribbon canyons and so it looks like a big weekly testicle right and it's amazing right it's by far my favorite place in the entire galaxy go in there and canyon running in in something really fast like if you get a max speed imperial eagle oh it's just for me totally my jam totally my type of gameplay right and i get you might make the argument that well maybe that's not realistic because the size of the planet and the gravity would pull those down and you would but you know what that's where we get to the difference between fun gameplay and absolute realism right you know if we stuck to absolute realism we wouldn't have super crews we wouldn't have shields and we wouldn't you know i'm saying so yeah exactly again to your poi there's a sound in space for lasers exactly exactly exactly right and i think missing those things right and and making everything it's it's not as bad as we can remember back to the basification of the galaxy back when that was back in when it was really beyond like yeah yeah right when everything went no it was from horizons was we had some really good colors right yeah it was between horizons and and beyond i don't remember what version of it in there you guys remember every [ __ ] planet looked like a tangerine all of a sudden like like a band-aid right you know because you had all these little craters on it that lit to me it literally looked like band-aids right it was the same color it was the same little tiny craters yeah it's it's not that the odyssey planets now are bad as such it's just that yeah right the planet they've taken away something that they'd yeah made that was really good and replaced it with something that's not as good a people fully a downgrade and i agree it's absolutely a person yeah it's you know like i say there's some great footage out there and there's some great screenshots out there people have found some amazing locations but the fact is they're a few and far between and the other side of that is when horizons come out frontier really pushing the whole concept of planet technology planetary generation yeah this is a new nexus 7 upgrade we see other developers now are the games that are i think they're way beyond where frontier is with it now oh i mean to say the least remember when we saw those screenshots at one point of like ice planets and you know there were like paintings and stuff yeah i think where did they go this is great as much as black star citizen gets but the planets on that look really good i agree entirely different project of course but you've got a microsoft flight simulator as well and you see what they're doing with their procedure generation and oh it's incredible a large scale tech obviously you know elite elite's not going to start doing hold full-scale earth likes everywhere but it's not just that they're a little bit now behind they're just becoming further and further behind all the time and to see them say they're not going to be fixing the planetary tiling that's not so much of a problem it's more that the implication behind that that they're not going to do any further work on planets you know at least that's how i read it i felt like we know this is a or at least people you know feel like downgrade sure uh sorry we can't do it or we're unwilling to do it because this thing doesn't bring in money or something all right it's a disappointment it's a massive disappointment and again for exploration you're really just the downgrade really and speaking of atmospherics actually on top of it right um well we got five percent extra planets to land on with basically a slightly i don't know i don't know sky or what else for uh whatever you want to call the atmosphere there right so the bluish sky and plants on the planets but that's all we got what is the point of those atmospheric planets in that case really i just in my last video that i did i was just wondering i truly came to conclusion just why did they bother even then really you know like where ant's flying right now i mean that's that's oh yeah very brilliant it looks nice excuse me yeah it's flying right there and there's there are the pretty places to find one of the things along that line that's always annoyed me is and i i get that you want to reward the explorers right for the work that they've gone out there to see but there is so much arguably cool [ __ ] out there the lagrange lightning clouds are some of that i think the most amazing places in the game great edition yep absolutely yeah the closest one is 11 000 if it still is 11 000 light years from the core what tiny percentage of players are getting to see that right why not tease all of that kind of stuff within a thousand light years of the core right so that you give people you know you give them that t so they want to go out and find more right instead it's essentially gated off to what i believe maybe i'm wrong here what i believe is a very small percentage of players that go beyond you know a thousand or two thousand light years from from the start right um and yeah again you want to reward the guys that do that i absolutely right but you don't want to punish the others is what it felt like you can take a taxi you know oh wait no taxis maximum range is 200 light years sorry yeah 200 light years that's that's the maximum the one taxi trip will take you yeah fun times oh gods and that basically all concludes the what had happened tha that uh on this year specifically and uh well or rather lack there off um oh [ __ ] okay performance right i i did talk about performance a little bit here there but uh basically those that are wondering about the performance it really hasn't improved that much yes in my investigations i uh concluded that they had introduced some sort of culling uh system which until the update nine wasn't present more than half a year later they added most basic optimization system or well method there we go method so it just baffles me and obviously i concluded why odyssey was released oh because of fiscal year and uh and that meant basically everything else had to be rushed out it felt like many other things also got rushed out and maybe that's why emotes weren't part of it or mega ship or fleet carrier interiors weren't uh out but you know the reasons are just up for conjecture at this point for for us but uh some feel more plausible than others but that's for performance now a year later it's still not where it should be and i mean by bare minimum acceptable performance by their own standards not just in a sense of uh it's not where it should be but it's all right sort of a thing no i'm i mean it in the truest sense oh it's almost criminal as to misrepresentative of the product kind of uh not where it should be make that distinction okay before we come to an end of that ask you to a question yeah go for it yeah yeah but what's your thoughts then on the last 11 updates not the necessarily the content but you can talk about the content if you want or the improvements but more really about fontes approach to releasing those apaches do you feel they're big enough do you feel frontier have made big enough steps over those 11 updates we've been doing more one word keep in mind also the point of which odyssey started at compared to where it is today yep those 11 updates inconsequential yeah that's i i that's a pretty good word for me too right i mean it's it's you know i because i stepped away from the game so much right i know i think i stepped away right around update six and i remember like you know i'd get pinged or you know i'd obviously stayed enough touch to know there was an update coming out and i remember i don't ever remember there being an update i think the only one that compelled me to all right let's give it a go was fleet carrier interiors just to see right and i think literally i looked at it for five minutes and that was about it right um which you could do on youtube for the transition right exactly exactly exactly right um you know yes i mean look let's be fair yes it's great to see progress happen right i mean you know like of course it is um does it all just feel like you know the words you hear a lot is you know no the game's not dead it's on life support and i think that's the way to say it right and it's always all of those to me feel like the bare minimum right you know if it's not the bare minimum i i've said this twice now at least why are we why don't we get new little things like black holes or like there's a list a mile long we could all come up with yama's mentioned quality of life right there's so many little things like that that i've also said in the past imagine if tomorrow was your first day at frontier and you had you're the game designer or you had some level of input on the game think of how long the list you would have and all these little things that seemingly right and i don't want to you know belittle how difficult technical changes are right but so many little things that could be done and could have been done over the years that would have made big impacts for just little things right and we didn't see any of that really in those 11 updates right you know we talked about the major features what emotes an srv ship are fleet carrier interiors is there anything i'm missing other than again and how many times are they yeah how many times is it you know performance updates or optimizations right well okay like that that's all we quote unquote get and it seems like each of those is a one percent step forward right i think for me what they did is they improved the game for the people who are already happy with odyssey yeah that's a great way to say it that's a great way to say it for the people beyond that i'm not sure if they really achieved as much as they probably could it's not so that's not to undervalue the amount of work that perhaps went into them no no that's right that's right i don't think there's someone's worked on them and someone's probably spent a lot of time on them yeah yeah and there's but there's nothing you're right there's nothing in those updates that if you were skeptical about odyssey or you weren't sure if you were going to jump in or you weren't sure if this was your jam there was nothing in those 11 updates that would change that but for the people who were already happy with odyssey i expect they probably see it somewhat differently and we're probably quite happy with it could be could be right um personally so the updates didn't give me what i wanted to see but i can see how someone who does like odyssey probably felt you know they've brought a lot of improvement over that time so yeah yeah and going back to the comment i made before about you know us being critical because we love it look if honest if you are loving odyssey fantastic right like i there shouldn't be i mean like i don't want to say you're stupid or anything like that if you're loving it and you're having a great time [ __ ] fantastic awesome for you and i don't mean that condescending i don't mean that anyway other than genuinely that's great right and i hope there are people listening that do feel that way right and obviously there are some right i think sadly it is a minority at least that's seemingly been the opinion right but if you're loving it awesome i i certainly don't want to be [ __ ] on you or anything if you're having a great time with the game because i you know there are parts of the game that i still very much very much love right but just to just to say that real quick hmm well i i never care about whatever whatever somebody feels i'm i'm just always about uh hey this thing sucks because of x y and z and no it's not because i like it i dislike it so i i tried to deal with the more uh well effect like stuff evidence oh yeah there you go basically why the design is bad and grind and so and so forth it's a good old dead horse as well um you're trying to give give concrete reasons and evidence behind this regarding emotional field there we go yeah yeah yeah yeah there you go right um well it's uh basically been two hours so yeah we probably should start uh start already with the ending closing thingamajig so i'm just gonna run over a couple of things that we didn't mention and uh oh god i completely forgot uh to include a little bit of a scorpius's uh thoughts uh here but uh basically uh actually this ties in with perfectly with the final sort of a question that i'm gonna give you guys to answer as well but i'll read uh scorpius first so the final question basically is what do you think happened with odyssey and now with a year later what is happening with it and uh to read off uh uh scorpius's uh message that he left before he had to you know run off to his uh stuff to do uh was basically that uh let's see he thinks or at least his argument that the the reason why odyssey was so bad uh and and unfinished unpolished were bad in state in general for content as well as performances and so forth was that uh he speculates of course uh conjecture that they lost the code base the code for part of the game that they had to restart and he speculates that sort of the what we see of odyssey on launch when it was was a year's worth of development and yeah it kind of feels like it doesn't it despite the fact that we know that they worked on it during beyond which makes for two year development already and i personally argued that it was actually three years already in development because they i think they started odyssey development during uh already the last stages of horizons which makes the three years sort of a period act at least which kind of makes you question well what did they do for the three years to bring this really and sure a scorebeast might be right uh saying that uh hey they lost the code base but uh then that didn't show up in investor reports it didn't show up anywhere in the public and uh if they are hiding that fact from everyone as a publicly traded company either which way it's not a good look and you can always postpone so i highly doubt it and also it kind also sorry scorpius but it shifts the blame from actually people being well either malicious or stupid you know han loans razor basically uh of pushing out odyssey what it was uh away from them just being stupid or malicious it's just uh outside thing and yes i understand wanting to give benefit of the doubt to developers but i remind you of another game that basically did even worse anthem they had four or more years to develop that [ __ ] thing and they were [ __ ] around according to kotaku uh reports from jason schreier okay it is fully possible in fact it is more often possible that the company that both publishes and also develops a product just decides to [ __ ] around or has no leadership and in this case as we've all seen what the odyssey has done or elite in general uh has followed a certain mo it feels more likely for at least myself that it just was either incompetence or malice which i would say incompetence mostly from the developer publisher that is from their developments but ascorbius who knows might be right they maybe lost the code so guys um as the final finishing thoughts uh again so uh i guess actually just wants to talk so what do you think no no no no no please please what do you think and well what do you think happened at the launch or how this happened in the first place and what happened during this year in your sort of take i suppose why do you think this little amount of work had been actually done you know it's it's so hard to speculate and i i kind of don't just throw it down before the end yeah you asked so well um you know first of all i and i was chatting with someone in in about a little bit of this right i i don't buy that there's malice right i don't buy them you always should apply yes incompetence rather than malice that's the han right exactly exactly right so i i don't buy that you know kind of like back we talked about no man's sky a little bit when people would say you know that that uh what's his name the guy the head of hello games uh that's sean murray that sean sean was you know like actively lying and he was trying to scam people no i and i think it's been proven that he was excited about what they wanted yeah and and yeah and he just overspoke right and i think that the same thing here in the sense that i don't believe that frontier has done something malicious right i think i would need to see evidence of that um i think if you want to talk incompetence if you want to talk i think your example of anthem is a good one in that you know is it possible they go down these paths i've talked a lot about them not getting real input from the community and by that i mean like hey here's what we're thinking what do you think of this you know a back and forth kind of thing and that you get down a path and now you have to scrap it we talked a lot about the exploration mechanic that was just scrapped right so i feel like potentially a lot of that happened and then by the time you know you get to release and you know the expectations don't pan out i mean i don't know what their finances are like what their sales is like we all could see what their stock price did you know at launch if i'm remembering right for those that don't know it literally halved right at launch right um and i think those kind of internal financial pressures are potentially you know hey this is bringing in enough money to keep it on life support you know and do what we can do to you know keep enough people playing and keep enough people buying skins and buying arks and and that sort of stuff right that that it seems to me that that's where the game has gone right that the financial incentive for there and i think in a little bit of fairness you know it is an eight-year-old game at this point right it is hard to bring in a whole new group of players as a new thing and that's what they could have done with odyssey it didn't happen i think pretty clearly right and so if i'm right that those numbers are where we would expect that their incentive going forward is is is difficult right you know where do you put your where do you put your resources do you put them toward you know new games and new stuff you know they've got the f1 game coming out they've got you know the the next one after that another one yep exactly right and so it probably i have to think that the bean counters are going look guys this makes a lot more sense and we need to take these guys that we're going to spend their time and resources and move either move them over here or just boot them right we just don't need that resource anymore because it's not making financial sense anymore right and you know if if i'm right about that it's hard to fault that from a business perspective because at the end of the day frontier's here to make business they are not here to make us happy hopefully those are one and the same right and they certainly can be i think star citizen has proven that right that you know you don't have to have all that and you're still making a huge you're still making a huge amount of money right where you know maybe maybe elite in frontier just isn't so i i think if i had to speculate that's probably where i would go um and what what's your take i think it's it's um yeah i think honestly we'll never know what happened or what went wrong there's two points of looking at this the one one way is you know we're in the here and now and what's the use of looking back we need to look forward yeah and that's something we haven't touched on which is um i've been talking about that quite a bit this year what frontier planning on doing where where's all their information what are they talking about and now we're kind of in a position where we can't say that because frontier very clearly announced their plans what they're doing with their recent road map which is basically uh they're focusing on two small updates wonderful segments yeah relatively uh perhaps a decent update update 14 which would be story focused and then next year they're focusing on um overhauling what they called i think it was a core gameplay feature it was a single so one key feature whatever that may be so i think it's important to keep in mind that what that roadmap suggests is they're not doing huge volumes of work on odyssey going forward and we should expect to see more of what we've had over the past year and i think that partially ties into what we saw with odyssey and what we mentioned previously is there's two two sides to it one is the design problems which we've mentioned throughout the stream i think there was a lot of design issues and we never know why that is but it just seems that there was no one really in charge and focusing on the direction for the game and if they were maybe it changed hands halfway through to me it just does obviously doesn't feel like three years worth of development yeah if it feels no it does not if it feels like a lot less tonight yeah it does it does so whatever went wrong maybe a scorpius was right and they they had development problems i just believe that but i think it's more that they lost the staff i think something that they lost all the staff that knows how to deal with this engine that that's for sure right and that resulted in two problems we had the performance issues and we had the um we had the design issues so to me that's that's just that that pretty much sums you up there was no real guidance for where obviously what it was meant to be so that you could argue that's poor management from the top or poor management from production lack of understanding it just feels you know it feels to me as though no one there was just no unifying vision for the game oh very much absolutely absolutely story is alone a good example of it yeah so yeah and i think it's like i say resources probably factor into that and the road map they recently revealed comes into that because it shows that frontier pretty much limited in the way they're viewing odyssey and how much they want to commit to it in terms of development yeah so you know i've got no problem with that because i think frontier are very clear now with what they've committed to for the next year to the next 18 months they've clearly let everyone know what to expect and what to not expect and it's very clear that we shouldn't be expecting huge volumes of work going into odyssey going forward and i'm you know i'm fine with that because frontier are clear with that message it's not what i personally agree with it's not what i would like to see for the game yeah sadly i mean elite is six year old well this year six no six seven for eight year old game so yeah investing into something like that unless it's a team fortress at the end of next year it's coming on for 10 years isn't it and don't forget frontier didn't say that they said many times that leak would have a 10-year plan i'm not saying it's coming to an end that they won't go beyond that but they did say 10-year plan and we're if we're you know closing the plan is sort of a business talk they said teddy applying for anthem man yeah and they've said the same for microsoft flight simulator a lot of companies say it but either way it ties into the game's age yeah i suppose know i think star citizen's got a what a a century plan is that is that this year it celebrates 10 years since its kickstarter wow yeah just had to make a little jab there yeah [Laughter] the only question i personally still kind of want to know just for out of the morb uh curiosity shall we say uh for the memes um i do wonder how many developers are actually working on elite now let's not forget that back in the beyond the days when they were in parallel or for mostly working on odyssey development they had 25 working on uh beyond stuff and then the rest were doing for uh stuff for for odyssey at that time they claimed to have around 100 person um yeah wonder how much is it now that's uh that's a total we can leave you on a little bit there yeah i suppose uh actually we could i suppose we can end this one then no no yeah all right then oh i'm i'm just waiting for an obsidian to also sound off because he's always so [ __ ] quiet anyways you're so chatty you too how many do they think we've got they've got i don't know in terms of numbers but i don't think it's very many i really don't think they've got very many uh it it's gonna be an interesting i highly doubt they will ever reveal it but you know right well anyways um well that's been basically the year in recap and frankly speaking actually on the positive note i suppose in the end uh for the one year anniversary they for the first time actually did put elite odyssey on sale imagine that on steam so that was the first time they actually got a sale so there's there's that but other than that really the year has been uh frankly speaking a highly disappointing one for basically the whole community overall because the player numbers are at literal all-time low and that's been the case since the third month of release so yeah and performance hasn't really improved even the point where it should be and content is really near non-existent frankly speaking so kind of a sad note to end on i suppose but uh that's what it is i suppose from yours truly that's about it and uh massive big thanks to obsidian and exigius for coming along and big thanks to of course uh all the other ones that uh you know couldn't make it and blah blah blah if you will but for now that'll be about it i would like to say i'd hope to see you next year if you the viewer or uh well you my fellow creators but well as xigias already has shown that that's easily broken right yeah right okay but now on on the bright bright side we're all here for each other that is me as a content creator we as the content creators for you the community and hopefully you the community are here for us uh if not you know each one of us specifically so thank you for watching thanks for enjoying and commenting and all the wonderful things so i personally will bid you i do that's about it so guys yeah thanks everyone for coming along and watching yeah this is great gamix thanks for putting this together and yeah thanks for listening i had to beat the dead horse one last time before everything's gone you know and that was the creator's round table and well hopefully you enjoyed it and if you do well do check out of course obsidian and exeggius and more so if you want to support my content as i said previously do check out the patreon link maybe toss it back my way or hell even youtube members and speaking of which i'll start with youtube members and read all of them and then patreon because in the last video i promised and oh boy here comes my great pronunciation so prepare to cringe and let's get into this all right simon johnson swallow this is there we go thomas mantell angel mcmilko uh hopefully got that right uh colin mckenzie there we go krostoff there we go tim jerome yes yeah got that uh kyle concilia hopefully uh joshua len hope hans witchman uh michael owen operator chocolaty lord grijke klaus bjorn dugard valor lieutenant roxy michael powell donald skye kyle smith syntax the great um hopefully i got that right anyways uh and uh uh you husky hopefully i also got that right commander syricus uh fractus and uh finally uh look in knickers so 1664. something like that hopefully get that right and uh moving on to patreon oh boy oh boy patrons right t1 jeffo eric hilton chat and malik hey yeah malik yields you this sorry i'm horrible anyways arikon upset dogo nerd octane sean hirst uh scott er earl there we go andrew benton uh security exp uh chris long and taco man atk dark empire nick the minds are sh shaken uh jason or amman there we go uh kenneth morgan lauren [Music] hopefully you got that right chris tatsu there gokai andreas volgensinger there gohans richman again wow uh okay chris quinn uh the tanker of planes uh sam um jensen there we go sir kaladin roland norman pick raymond alvey there you go uh gabrielle phillip roland lovrenz uh bob bell kevin garriott williams uh corey jones robert mattis ryan or sullivan uh illustrations bp hopefully that's not british petroleum anyways alex rogan's poor uh richard guyan hopefully got that right uh danielle porter brienne shaw justin bowen uh razor tiger claw captain hammer mark uh yente uh and uh alexi uh oh gods pio brazinski all right ross reichelsloff wheatley george wolfhouter sebastian um matt heyer richard hodgson kevin crooker mr lindsay robert lupe uh fraquier adam palmer moglon uh kai kwall hopefully got that right uh syntax the great matthew s brown rob qui uh rob quirk it is windy okay uh that's swede uh joston uh trish uh megan hopefully got that right as well kyle oilinger bouncy bob alter fox tony shannon um jamie uh larter there we go i just posted uh brown campbell uh trip leon leanne harris rising valor again jason uh gilpin um ashley oh charles corbin howard davis jan koch hopefully got that right uh max williams miroslav or sadretevitz uh well either which one there you go uh commander orvius uh dean uh tuckliff uh steve hannon jeff tornborough nano machines gravity sucks uh tazzy tech music david oz 28 caboose gun geek owen the boss scott kidder jack irvine and star lord bob gibbots timos zaccarello nicholas ray ray dig there we go anthony jackson e wanderer bess ulic will harris tommy j ethan constantinos uh james piercing for piercing yes uh baron bohr robert o'sharet flying brickyard commander j rod war machine jonathan burke simon bell matt harris stephen coats uh commander richard or von older henrikh d commander primus lindorff there we go ryan gross uh rye bread brook and brooks anderson uh frank tuffner fallout tech rat guard jagog lou to decay rob b jason za zions uh mad vaxx spatula uh hugh willis jeff galil my oldest supporter there still so thank you very much and as always every little bit does truly help so thank you all for helping out and well one of these days you're gonna see a bit more of this uh so but uh yeah wonderful exciting things are happening and uh that's kind of why i was uh relatively inactive this year but uh ho boy things hopefully will change for the quality better and uh well you'll see more videos and all that stuff so but anyways all that big help really does come a long way and uh does motivate your sully to continue doing the best like you know uh present dice self with at least some sort of uh quality and or so but uh yeah still need to put in isolation foam and so whatever anyways anyways that's for the future for now i beat you i do and i'll see you next time

Channel: TheYamiks

Views: 15,142

Keywords: theyamiks, yamiks, the yamiks, elite dangerous, elite dangerous odyssey, elite dangerous gameplay, elite dangerous odyssey review, elite dangerous review, elite dangerous odyssey a year later, elite dangerous a year later, elite dangerous odyssey gameplay, elite dangerous odyssey review 2022, frontier developments, elite dangerous 2022

Id: bmG2dF4pLXo

Length: 139min 54sec (8394 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 02 2022

Reddit Comments

[u/AS_GYRS]

I think we've gotten to the point now that the people who are still playing the game are the ones who enjoy it, and for the most part enjoy EDO, so there simply aren't as many interested in controversy farming, which is reflected in the lack of interest this post has received. If the community can move on, why can't former content creators? I think it might be for the best if they could.

[u/Yamiks]

Noted on my overstepping etc, so this EDITED version has following improvements:

• Better audio (except some middle bit)
• Timestamps (woooo)
• Edited out few silent moment & yamiks nonsense (for you picky little fucks)
• Added somewhat relevant footage on screen

Enjoy!

[u/anonymous_guy111]

that guy whining for 10 minutes that Frontier didn't listen to his demands... jeesh

[u/wzaesystems]

Given the amount and quality of discussion under this post, I would say the most of elite community is done for and what's left of it does not look pretty. Makes sense since we've been nearly abandoned for a year, or 3 years, if you count from last playable content.

[u/AbruhAAA]

What Exigeous said isn’t even bad, he was trying to get connected with the devs and be (the non existent) bridge between FDEV and the community that we wish to have.

He didn’t even demand anything other than being listened, it’s crystal clear that content creators know what community wants more than FDEV.

I remember him and other creators doing shittons of polls and trying to get feedback from the community to the devs during the alpha, looks FDEV didn’t want and ignored that feedback lol

While FDEV as per usual wanted to exploit ED creators for free PR while paying big bucks to external ones.

That’s disrespectful AF to the people who kept this thing alive between 2019 and 2021 and literally run the game with their free work eg. third part sites.

Calling it meltdown is childish and discarding his experience with FDEV just so you can live within your fairytale is pathetic.

Man some of these defenders of FDEV’s shitty practices on these forums/subs/echo chamber surely feels as if they were on their payroll or had direct interest in them.

Fucking white knights, corporate simps. We are reaching SC’s level of echo chamber-ness.

No balls and mad maidenless behavior in these comments lulz