Could The Loyalists Have Won the Istvaan V Dropsite Massacre? | Warhammer 40k Lore

g'day guys and gal the Horus heresy was absolutely full of pivotal moments and epic Feats of power that continually swung the balance of power between the Loyalists and the traitors however nothing made quite as much impact as the eastvan dropside massacre where the Raven guard iron hands and salamanders will more or less wiped out with Vulcan being taken prisoner and Ferris getting killed whilst the trade Allegiance barely took any real damage from it it was probably the most decisive victory of the entire heresy but could the Loyalists have actually won could it be possible that a different combination of Lewis Legions could have actually overcome the surprise bakaki that the trade is delivered before we get started I have some pretty delicious Christmas merch for you guys and gal that I know is going to be a hit just look at this Christmas hat that is awesome but before I can open these up for sale or to show you the other goodies that are coming I want to give everyone one last chance to pick up the 400k magical merch there isn't much stock left and this design will never be repeated or brought back so if you want to be a part of History and support the channel then the link is below today we'll discuss if the isvan dropside massacre was genuinely winnable for the Loyalists if they had used three different Legions and if not winnable then at least which Trio of loyalist Legions would have fed the best let's get into it [Music] for a quick rundown on what happened for those of you who aren't addicted to the lore of the plastic crack Horus had just been revealed as a traitor and fortified a world could is fun 5 with the help of the world eaters Emperors children and death guard the empress sent out most of his Legions to crush Horus first to land in the Vanguard was the iron hands salamanders and Raven guard who would then be later backed up by the iron Warriors night Lords wordbearers and Alpha Legion however after the initial clash and arrival of the supposedly loyal reinforcements it was revealed that the iron Warriors night Lords wordbearers and Alpha Legion were also traitor hence they opened fire on the surprise salamanders iron hands and ravenguard this quickly led to a massacre in which about 95 of the loyalist forces were slaughtered Ferris Manus was killed Vulcan was taken prisoner and corvus staged A desperate Escape it kicked the loyalists in their tender balls and gave Horus a massive advantage in the early stages of the heresy that's more or less the rundown of what actually happened but not necessarily what could have been before we choose which loyalist Legion should have gone to isvan let's look at why the Loyalists Fed so badly in the first place beyond you know the fact that they got absolutely turbo raped from both sides by a massive enemy Force first up the three Legions sent that being the iron hands salamanders and Raven guard were not particularly good choices for this type of Engagement the Battleground was a hilly chewed up bog that had [ __ ] all cover it was basically no man's land which didn't allow much room for genuine strategy as such the battle turned into more or less a Leroy Jenkins for both sides this sucks for the Raven guard who were the ultimate stealth and infiltration Legion whenever the Raven guard are forced into this [ __ ] full send of warfare they always suffer greatly as shown by their massive amount of casualties during the Battle of gate 42. the iron hands were actually quite well suited to this grueling battle however Ferris was way too emotional due to fullgram's betrayal and he continued to charge in and was the salamanders and ravengard fell back this guaranteed the destruction of the iron hands as even if the arriving Legions didn't end up in entering the list of top 10 anime betrayals Ferris would still have been killed and his Legion crushed the salamanders were okay for Estevan but not great their love of flame-based Weaponry means they excel in close quarter combat where they could more or less just torch down corridors Open Fields aren't great for the shorter range flame weapons on top of that none of the loyalist Legions were particularly large when compared to the ultramarine or dark angel Legions in fact horror specifically manipulated events so that he would face these three loyalist Legions in particular he had sent the Dark Angels to the edges of space and trick sanguineous into getting ambushed by demons ages away as well the what if the emperor had his pick of exactly who to send who would have been best well definitely not the Space Wolves they had a similar temperament to the iron hands and wouldn't have the discipline to properly react to the Betrayal they would have probably done a better job than the iron hands killing more Traders with Lehmann likely taking down a traitor Primark himself before he was torn down but overall a similar impact and result just with more Trader casualties the white scars also wouldn't have been a great choice for changing the result although their casualty rate would be a lot lower as they would be able to retreat and Skirmish once the Betrayal was revealed the Khan himself would have had a good chance of surviving the battle and escaping Estevan funnily enough it's actually stated in law that if Dawn and his entire Legion of Imperial fists were to go to isvan then he would have probably been able to crush the Traders then and there the Imperial fists were a massive and very powerful Legion with Dawn being a perfect Commander for such a volatile battle not to mention the Phalanx would give them space superiority allowing him to control the skies where he supplies Warriors and if needed perform an orderly withdrawal their ability to dig in and fortify would also be extremely clutch for when the Betrayal was revealed and the attempted spit roast would begin however in Canon it was also stated that despite Dawn likely being able to crush Horus then and there leaving the throne world undefended would result in the alpha Legion taking it and winning the heresy for chaos anyways so despite Dawn's Legion being the best to send they were the only one the loyalists were allowed to use so this leaves us with the obvious choice the blood angels ultramarines and Dark Angels would have been the best three Legions to send and would have likely achieved a victory over the Traders despite how [ __ ] the situation was here's why firstly these three Legions were led by extremely tactical and level-headed primarks there would be no full [ __ ] Leroy Jenkins suicide charge orbitable bombardments would softer up the Trader's anti-air defenses and allow the Loyalists to land unmolested then they could set up their own fortifications and engage the traders in intelligent combat that suited the strengths of these loyalist Legions this takes away the Trader's insta win card and complicates things greatly these loyalist Legions especially the ultramarines were [ __ ] massive so despite still being outnumbered the Loyalists still had a pretty good shot after some skirmishing the battle would begin in Earnest Dark Angel Terminators backed up by enslaved men of iron and a bunch of War crime tier Weaponry would devastate the traitor lines whilst blood Angel forces would drop hot in for their classic shocking tactics ultramarines would secure key objectives and areas feeding Priceless tactical information to the other loyalists sangunis would be able to quickly engage key targets including Trader Prime maximum sanguinis would either be able to fight off or even kill when the secretly traitorous reinforcements would arrive the lion would order them to join in on the assault rather than the broken loyalists running up to them and requesting Aid opening themselves up to being slaughtered at close range the reinforcements would not reply and the Lion's instincts would tell him that something was off which his brain would back up as he realized the reinforcements were not acting in accordance to how they should at a similar time sanguine's foresight would also likely show him the true nature of their reinforcements giving the loyalist pre-warning of what was to occur as such the Loyalists would be able to orderly withdraw to their fortifications and prepare for the great betrayal the original trait Allegiance would have a hard time harassing or following the Loyalists as they would have just been clapped extremely hard by the loyalist Onslaught spearheaded by the Lion's war crimy toys and sanguines's might Horus would spring his trap and the nightlords iron Warriors Alpha Legion and wordbearers would open fire on the Loyalists from the other side however instead of cutting down thousands of loyalists in seconds the prepared loyalists will have taken cover put up shielding and would already be returning fire if anything the Loyalists would have fired first knowing what was about to happen this is already a way better start than what actually happened in Canon however we still have three loyalist Legions up against eight trade Allegiance who had them surrounded although they would be hard to beat eventually the Loyalists would be cut down to avoid this they would need to Sally out and attack either the newly arrived Traders or the traders that they had just been fighting the best option would be to re-engage the original Traders led by Horace horace's overconfidence in how outnumbered the loyalists were would have pulled his forces out of their trenches and bunkers they would also be worn down from the initial shock assault and they had also purged about a third of their Legions during the is fun atrocity sometime before as such their numbers would actually be notably less than the three loyalist Legions on the flip side at the Iran driving Traders led by petarabo would be fresh more numerous and had a much better position as such the Loyalists would use the ultramarines to hold off the newly arrived Traders using their Superior Tactics and high numbers whilst the blood angels and Dark Angels renewed a vicious assault on horace's forces the sons of Horus World eaters death guard and Empress children would be taken by surprise by this new Furious counter-attack expecting the Loyalists to instead attempt to withdraw or hunker down angron would probably be the first to die leading from the front he would cup the brunt of the counter-attack if it wasn't Mass heavy boltify that term Des shreds it would be sanguineous he was able to beat demon engrun in Canon so he probably wouldn't have much issue with Mortal engran fulgrim wouldn't be able to help himself engaging the lion in a jewel of swordsmanship a jewel that the lion would win considering he is the greatest duelist of all the primarks after all the dude was able to beat Conrad in a 1v1 despite Conrad being able to accurately see the future at this point mortarion who was already not super keen on the trade of forces due to their obsession with the warp would likely order the death guard to retreat not wishing to join his brothers and death for a cause he didn't really believe in with two Trader primarks dead the death got falling back and the sons of Horus being cut down and demoralized without their Primark near him after all Horus was hiding in a bunker during the battle the original trait of forces would waver whilst the newly arrived Traders would desperately try to break through the ultramarines to reinforce Horus giliman taking advantage of the enemy's desperation and frantic rush to inflict massive casualties sangonius would seek out Horus issuing a challenge to him that Horus wouldn't be able to resist since goodies would fly to him and engage him in a Titanic Jewel now I can't say for certain who would win this fight Horus was a mighty Primark but he had not yet received the power bus from chaos that he was going to receive before he would fight and kill sanguineous in Canon sanguinis would also be a lot fresher when he was killed by Horace during the siege of Terror he just killed kabunda demon angron and about a million China Marines dude was [ __ ] knackered in this circumstance he would really had only gotten Scrappy with Mortal anger on and that's a big maybe there's no reason why a good [ __ ] Blast from the Dreadwing wouldn't have put anger on down so I would honestly give the jewel to sanguineous dude was just the league above his brothers when it came to Epic anime battles with Horus dead the resolve of the trait Allegiance would shatter the night Lords would fall back seeking to escape into the void the wordbearers would likely fight to the end logarb in utter disarray and despair that his Destiny would not be fulfilled the alpha Legion would also likewise Escape Perth the ribo may also try Ronda but I have a feeling he would fight to the end not willing to be captured or forced to run like a rat it might not necessarily end clean for the Imperium the ultramarines could easily be cut down with giliman dying in a 2V1 against Conrad and lorgar forcing the line and these Dark Angels to hold off the Traders while sanguinis killed Horus it could end in the death of all the Loyalists however I am confident that Horus would also die before then the reality is it doesn't matter if every loyalist is killed if Horus also dies without Horus there is no great plan or heresy the Loyalists win so yeah yes with just three Legions the Loyalists could have actually won not via Total Domination but more so cutting the head off the snake the Lion's extreme arsenal of weapons combined with sangrinius being sanguinius as giliman acts as the glue that holds them together would be an unbelievably potent weapon against the Traders there is a reason why Horus was so desperate to keep these three Legions out of the game for as long as possible these were the three that could genuinely [ __ ] him in the ass if you enjoyed the video and you want to support the channel then pick up the 400k magical merch once 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Id: vS5d4SoIWJ8

Length: 12min 10sec (730 seconds)

Published: Mon Dec 05 2022