All right, let's get back to Idaho and more the doomsday prophet murder trial for Chad daybell the prosecution says that chaz desire for sex money and power is what led to the deaths. >> Killings murders of his former wife Tammy daybell and his stepchildren tylee and JJ the next witness. Is an interesting one is a religion. That was in Chad and Tammy's latter day Saints Ward. So you knew the family. Wally year hear what he has to say especially coming up on cross a school. ♪ >> Sir could you please state your full name and spell your last name. >> Ron Arnold they are in a while the. Where do you live Sir in Salem Idaho. And what County is that in Fremont County K. Who were you married to Whitney Arnold. How long have you lived over there in Salem 5 years K. Do you know and and about tax actually have with their sorry I've lived there since 2015. Do you know an individual named Chad daybell yes do you see him in the courtroom today yes can you tell me where he's sitting in what he's wearing. He's sitting right He's wearing a white shirt and tie. Were you with Tammy daybell yes. Where did you meet Chad and Tammy daybell I was in Chad be Tammy's Ward okay and that Chad was my home teacher for 3 and a half years and him and his son came in to visit On a regular basis for that time which one was that mark. And did you get to know tammie as well, yes. About how often did you interact with her I'm not that much to be Frank with you OK. >> I'd like to ask you about some dates and 2019 2020 is that okay. Do you remember the weekend of 9/21/2019 yes. Now I'm going back up a little bit what what's your occupation. >> I I'm a real estate broker in southeast Idaho for a run around Realty. >> Okay and that weekend of September 21st of 2019 were you asked to do a real estate showing. Yes who asked you to do a real estate showing Chad. Where was that real estate showing. >> It was on 1800 East and about one. >> 90 North. And that's near Salem are in Salem best. And did you end up doing that showing for Mister daybell yes. Who if anyone came with Mister daybell to that showing. I picked him up at his home and we met people there who was there. David David we're workign Melanie give back was anybody else there. Yes, but was that. I didn't know at the time I was introduced to this that's what they said they studies thing that I do remember, but looking back it was Alex. Last 2. I was Scott's thank you Sir. Was anybody else there. No. >> After that showing did anybody in that party purchased the property or did anything come of it. >> No okay I'd like to talk to you about October 19th of 2019. >> Do you remember that day, yes, what happened on October 9th of 2019 we received. >> Call about between 8.39 o'clock Whitney and I received a call and our Bishop informed us Tammy had died. >> What did you actually approximately what time on the 19th did you get that call sometime between 8.39 o'clock. >> I am what did you do after getting that call we immediately went to the House whose House did you go to get to Chad and Tammy's House. When you got to the House who is >> Chad was there obviously and and some of the kids. Everybody was and some different room, so I didn't. Take inventory of guests, Paramount. Did you see Chad yes did you speak to Chad is due notice anything about his demeanor. He seemed distraught did use means to him. Yeah, I mean you I I asking you know how he was doing you know well in that situation you know a spouse passing away and. Did you discuss with him how Tammy had passed on that day. Not really no okay. Did you attend a memorial service for Tammy daybell yes do you recall when that was. I think it was the. It was a I think the funeral that was in springville and on a Saturday in this Memorial was on a Wednesday. >> OK so when you say the worst is so there were 2 separate services. Yes, and when you say spring one of the services when this was in springville with that the springville Utah our Tammy was from yes, and you attended a service in Idaho are Tammy correct. And that was a few days after her death. Yes, okay at that memorial service did you speak to Chad yes. What conversations did you have with Chad the day of counties funeral indicted or service in Idaho. >> More specifically I mean we we visited, but he he said he wasn't going to be living at the House at the time he didn't feel comfortable being there who is going to stay in rexburg with a friend. >> And when you said he didn't feel comfortable at the House did you take that to mean the home that he shared with tell me. Yes. Did he say anything about leaving Idaho. Yes, what did he tell you about that he said that he was going to go to. >> Hawaii to do a biography help them help a friend to a biography. >> Did he identify who this friend was so. Did you think that was strange. >> took up for face value. I mean I that's what Chad had been doing some. You know writing books and those types of >> at some point in time did you learn that Chad had remarried, yes. At some point in time I did you meet chads new wife. Yes when was that. >> It was probably early. You want me to explain >> Circumstances let me just ask you a clarifying question was that in November of 2019. Yes, approximately how soon after Tammy had died did you need to Chad's new wife. That's when I met her in November gives OK and do you remember when in November. >> Not not specifically we were having the kids his kids over for a family meeting in a meal he had called me that day and said he wanted to bring his new wife over to Meade and I explained that I says well you know that your kids are coming over to our home for for supper to just come in and be with us and you know you can introduce us then and did you meet chads new wife that night, yes. >> Did you have a conversation with Chad and Lori about whether or not Lori had children. We asked her. >> The the normal questions, you'd ask somebody that you don't know you know where you from how many kids you have you know those kinds of things. >> And do you recall when lori's answers were what Chad may have said. >> Are saying that that that she had 7 kids. >> And could that have been in reference to her and Chad's kids combined. I I I was led to I was thinking that it was heard. >> Children not chat okay. >> Did she say whether she had children living at home. No okay. >> She was not specific about not about her but her children, okay. >> Were you with her the entire night or. Were you in other parts of the conversation that evening. >> They weren't there. But that long but you know she are are we had a dining room area and family room area that are kind of connected and so everybody was kind of together socializing socializing is okay. >> After the dinner that you had with Chad and Lori in November of 2019 when was the next time that you heard from Chad. >> All right the real estate agent Ron Arnold to nudge and Tammy and then got to meet Lori still with us criminal defense attorney former just turning in Juneau witness at this moving the ball at all. >> Well I don't know that he's a moving the ball it but but. >> I was surprised by that sort of flat af act. >> What he said he he met in November which would have been you know maybe a month after candy's death any it didn't seem to think. >> That was a unusual at least has an express that this point but that I guess we'll see where where this testimony ultimately goes. >> Yeah, in a. >> I don't know a lot about the and faith covering lori's trial, you you got the feeling that there was the marriage People meet and marry I think with more quickly then another. Areas so maybe that that is a part of it if you're the prosecution here would you want LDS members on that jury who kind of can see through you know they understand things and they understand the wards, they understand you the that all of it in a different way than others, you know where you might get in a non Mormon who things oh my gosh is grace where they could be put it put more into context is that who you would be after on that jury if if the state obviously the defense wouldn't necessarily want them. >> Well yes, I mean I think obviously someone who has a background in the Mormon faith and understand sort of the nuances of. >> Of the faith and how the congregations for. >> The lack of a better we're interacting all that a big game, you know when you're talking about you know possibly having someone on the jury whose really just you know regardless of what we're. Their their is I mean you're talking about a guy who's alleged to murder and his wife. And then his you know his new wife's chilled. You know that doesn't ring you know You know hospital Lee a. >> 2 people who are devoutly religious I mean you know if you're if you're devout religious you're going to be turned off by. >> e D. But. I'm sure they gave some thought to who they wanted. On a jury and who they want to stay away from. >> the developing this and turning up being turned out by Chad daybell I think 90% of a human beings, it's going to be turned off by Chad daybell almost immediately when you hear the story of what he had cooking there with a lorry let's get a break. When we come back. The says that. >> He asked the question everybody else wanted to do he asked Chad straight to him while JJ and We are watching testimony unfold in the ADA County Courthouse in Boise Idaho for the doomsday. >> Often murder trial defendant Chad daybell is charged for his alleged connection to the deaths of his wife Tammy daybell and Lori Vallow those children JJ and tylee let's go back into the courtroom together now we're picking it up right where we left off this is the direct examination of this really matter. He was also in Chad and Tammy's latter day Saints war was notified of Tim's death. Any says he asked Chad the where were the children. >> The 2020 when and what part of March of 2022 next year from Chad it was around the 16th of March and how did Chad contact you or how did you come into contact with Chad could he called me and asked if he could meet with me. And did he tell you why when he was speaking with you on the phone know. And did you meet with him that weekend in March. Where did you meet with him. >> He came we were just moving from a rental into our new home and I had to meet me at rental. >> And just kind of some foundations to a year they're talking about. >> With the speed that thank you Mister Pryor would this be March of twenty-twenty correct. Thank you. Mister de Mille at your rental And what did you do next. He >> got it with me in my vehicle and we drove around and visit. >> What was the first thing they talked about with Chad daybell I asked Chad the questions that probably everybody else would want to ask about where where the kids and why haven't you told anybody and sorry that's okay. >> So let's zoom out a little bit and what was going on at that time that caused you to ask Chad those questions. >> I'm Lori had been incarcerated. And there was the big news Inc search for missing children. >> Now did you learn why chatted wanted to meet with you that day. >> And yes eventually us. >> And white had just wanted to meet with you that day. We have previously talked about splitting his property possibly putting another home on it and we determine that and his law was too small and so he wanted to know if he can how a home on it which we thought I thought I could my my experience that he could probably put another home on it. And we talked about the fastest way that could be done and that was with either a manufactured or a modular home and and we talked about some of those details. >> And did he tell you why he wanted to put that home on his property at that time. >> He said he was he felt like he was going to need a place for him and Lori to live. Okay. >> And you said that you talked to Mister daybell about doing that as fast as possible why why did you talk about doing it as fast as possible. >> I had to do. Probably because getting into a home and having one bill back then took to 8 to 10 to 10 months. And you can get a manufactured home in 3 to 4 back then OK. >> And back to the conversation I had with Chad about where the kids were. When you ask where the kids were whose children were you referring to. The kids that were missing or raise kids. His wife lori's children and what to Chad tell you about his wife lori's children and where they were he looked me straight in the eye. And he told me >> they were they were okay and when this all was going to be when that when everything came out that everything was going to be just fine. >> And that was in March of 2020 that's correct, I've no further questions for this witness all right, thank you must manage. Mister Krause yes. >> So my understanding is you mentioned that to you live in the Salem Idaho area right correct. >> Been there since 2015 correct you're actively involved in your churches address see all the U.S. faces a yes, >> Reasons for Arnold wait until the questions done before you answer our court reporter tonally take down one of the Times. >> Not just realized I was going very quickly swiming also slow down I like him to go quickly. Seems to be a habit with a lot of people. You mention that Chad was a member of your award. Is that right correct okay now. From someone on the outside describe in essence what award is. Word is a geographic area. >> in a state that's the geographic area in the inside the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. >> OK so are there more than once stakes. And a state. Okay so award is a geographical area within the. >> But part of this case is Eastern Idaho, our side right correct and that would include the town of Salem witches I've been there a couple of times it's a small community right as Salem is not an incorporated town, it's a small community. The award has somewhere between 3 600 people in it because somewhere between 25 3,000 people in it. >> And it's based on new numbers in a geographic area. So if we talk about the Henry's fork. >> Ward. >> Talking about a very large geographical area. >> Henry Ford there is the Henry Ford there is there is for board but it's that the rexburg Henry's fork stake. It had said it had 9 awards in it. And the word we were in was the Salem 3rd Ward. >> OK and having gone through Salem what I recall about Salem is there's a church there correct and that's kind of pretty much all of Salem would that be fair. >> Well there's a lot of residents there are all spread out, but yes other than commercial buildings and religious facilities Salem consists of a religious facility right. You know that there is a church House in Salem and and it's a fundamental part of the community there to drawing area where the people meet on Sundays and other times for various activities would that be fair that's correct. And in one instance, the use of Salem churches for some of the folks out in the Salem area. The only place that they could get Internet access would that be fair. No it's not. No okay but the church offers free As part of its a building there all that. >> The Internet and in our sailors building is really bad so you don't go there to get Internet okay. Okay. you mentioned the September 21 of 2019. September 21 of 2009 S and that was on a Sunday. Well if if if the 21st is a Sunday yes, okay well on that particular day you are a church with Chad that morning and that is correct. Oh sorry, sorry. Don't hold me in contempt daughter, I some of what you're asking for me to Yes thank you to you. You just going make me slow down even more now than Okay on September 21 of 2019 you started the day with Chad at that church services is that right that's correct. And then without getting too personal, I know what how long I'm in church. But how about process is that. Well it's a two-hour block. But there's meetings for leaders before and and then there's some. >> things to do after church I so it can encompass 3 maybe even 4 hours some talk or act. So on that particular day, although you may not have a specific reckless action Chad could have been there just before 12 o'clock that day would that be fair. >> I I can't remember to be Frank with you a timely was meeting because wheat we switch every year our meeting time switch every year. >> But but it does run late into the morning right yes, so that would be it. >> All right we're going to put a commercial break here more cross coming up coming up the win this alert something out that triggers a sidebar are I'm back to Idaho. We go now where we've been watching 12 a day 12 testimony in the murder trial for doomsday prophet Chad daybell he faces charges in the deaths of his wife. >> His wife Tammy and Lori vallow's 2 children prosecutors accuse him of exposing religious beliefs to justify these murders, let's head back down into the courtroom were picking up right where we left off with this really utter who was also in Chad in Tammy is latter day Saints. coming up he is going to a trigger, a side bar and it gets everybody's attention. >> So that would have given shot an opportunity on a Sunday to leave and then meet with anybody else prior to euro, you picking Chad up at his house on the 21st right. >> I was not with Chad eye to eye contact. The whole time church before or during or or even after OK, but when you picked up a chat, your head, I'm his house. He was still in his church clothes was an a he was in a white shirt and dress pants but no tie okay, but that would be and that wouldn't be unusual for what he would wear to go to church correct that's correct. And then at that point you picked him up and you drove out to a a piece of property that you were trying to market that be fair. Yes which was basically less than 2 minutes from Chad to home right and I appreciate you telling me that. At this Chad mentioned to you in a guy by the name of chiefs about looking at that property will that connection with the property and the chief. Keith had been what was a somebody that I have been talking to about. Trying to help him find a popular homer a piece of property that he can purchase and build a home on okay and not a particular piece of property is something the Chiefs was interested in prior to going out there with these other folks is that fair, yes, but then at some Chad contacted you and said he as someone who has expressed some interest in buying for at least purchasing some property in the area to recall that. Yes and that person was a guy by the name of David Warwick that's correct and David Warwick contacted Chad and in turn Chad provided you with David's phone number. >> That might have been how that >> I change. Originally we met at the property first and then I think Chad provided the the phone number for David. >> Okay, but you're not sure about that and I I can't remember the order that it could have been the other way yeah OK the first time I met David Warwick was at that property. Okay so we're unclear is whether you have the phone number before or after correct okay, and then when you drove out to that property with Chad after church. Did you visit any other properties know. I had I had tried to get Chad to wait till. >> Monday and he he had indicated that they were only going she the people that work coming to look at it we're only going to be there Sunday and would only you know we really needed. >> To do that so he press that and so I reluctant Lee agreed to go. Show that property that and it wasn't and it was actually in the app your noon OK was after after 12:00PM. >> It was that was later in the afternoon. It was a little later in so maybe church and then all of the obligations were church may have run a little later. >> I was I had been at home. Well I would I have been the home when he called a UW come and show his property OK and at that and at that point when you showed up. There were several people there is that right. The only person there was when when I arrived and I learned this later was Alex right and then while we were there. We were there briefly in and David in and Melanie showed up okay. >> So from what I understand that it's your testimony that this person ally so showed up first when you arrived with Chad. >> I don't recall if he was there when we when we arrived or he arrived. After we were there, but we were there very long. >> Okay and disperse and Roger. >> his own vehicle when he when he arrived there would that be fair. >> Yeah, I assume that yes, it would be some place for you to walk from someone they love the code number okay and then subsequent to that an absolutely separate car. >> The other 2 people who you mentioned what were the other 2 people. They were there afterwards when Alex did David Warwick and Melanie good okay. >> So then in a separate car David Warwick and Melanie Gibb arrived wrecked correct. OK and how long we they're looking at the property. Maybe 15 minute okay and to David express city and an interest in purchasing a piece of property. He was he had indicated that he was either looking here or in another location to maybe do some developing and did you have the to give you the indication that he had the financial ability to do that or is that something you look into we did not talk about that at that point at that time. So at this September 21 of 2019 in the afternoon. If I understand you correctly you didn't look into the financial resources that David may have to purchase 88 acres is that right. It was 79 and. I had not checked with him prior to that. I was under the impression, it was 88 acres my mistaken, 7979 acres, okay the cost to the 79 acres would have been about how much money at the time about $700,000. OK and but you didn't take the Liberty of deciding whether or not he could afford. That's 700 and some odd $1000 is that all right Mister Pryor I didn't know who was coming. OK that's OK, I'm just asking. I went there to show the property for as a favor to Chad right and so that's the first time I've met. David Warwick he had mentioned Chad mentioned that he had he had talked to several people that were maybe possibly looking at developing property in the area. OK and I assumed that this was one of them and so if we would have kept pursuing it obviously I would have okay and that's not MS. just getting the fact that we didn't we didn't establish whether David could even afford to buy that property is where I was going I guess I'm not seeing the relevance of that question to me well that's unfortunately that's unfortunate for the judge to decide not for United side you understand that right. I guess I don't think you may be not be okay. And then at some there was an arrangement you to meet the following day with David is that right. I think so I think we maybe tried but. They were leaving town and so the only car. >> I checked right John Pryor getting under the skin of around the Mormon really it >> We are watching testimony in the doomsday prophet murder traffic Chad daybell out in Idaho, he faces first-degree murder charges for the death of his wife Tammy and for the deaths of 16 year-old tylee Ryan and 7 year-old JJ Vallow prosecutors claim that Chad and his wife Lori Vallow daybell thought that lori's 2 children had become dark spirits. Zombies and the only way to save their souls kill them. For the defense side John Pryor is trying to portray Chad is a really religious man who was it manipulated by this evil woman named Laurie. Let's go back in the courtroom now for more the cross-examination of this realtor he I'm Ron are really starting to get the little upset with John Pryor in a couple minutes here he's going to blurt something out. ♪ >> We had a couple of phone calls follow-up phone calls. >> You know are you interested he wasn't sure and then. We didn't have any more contact so you don't recall the fact that you enter gringos restaurant, the with Chad with the intention to meet David Warwick, I'm now on that following Monday. You don't recall that. Actually I don't okay. And you don't recall him mentioning to Chad that David notified you that he had already left town and wasn't going to be able to meet on the Monday following a. >> That's good yeah that that could have happened that way. >> So in other there could have been a discussion with David about going back to the property and it could have happened that he called you and said I'm having to get out of time I can't meet with you on Monday it could happen that way. >> We did not have a conversation about him returning in looking at the property before it left town, okay. Now mention that you up on the 19th of them. 2019. We're over a chance House. Is that right what's the date 10/19/2009, yes, correct. And when you're over there on 10/19/2019 you you're familiar with that House right. You know I had never been inside that House. In the 4 year and that they have a breezeway or an entryway not says as far as I've ever been in the House did your familiarize yourself with the property surrounding that House. When we talked about splitting the property it was about the cause about the the House or the the floor plan or you get those kinds of things okay so the the acreage that you're talking about you have any recollection of how much acreage we're talking around stats rounds tras House. >> You own it how much how many acres is it like reishi 8 I don't well just to have a sidebar yes. ♪ >> You should know obviously John Pryor has acquired the property is part of his payment likely. For trying to save chance life in this death penalty case, let's bring in court TV legal correspondent Kelly crash she's outside the court House there in ADA County happy Friday Kelly to you wow that was quite the what stood out to you so far today as we look ♪ forward to to another day of testimony here in this case can Chad daybell. >> I can tell the witness is not that crazy about the questions that John Pryor is asking him at one point even as saying that he really didn't understand with John Pryor explain to him it is up to the judge to determine if something is relevant or not wouldn't you agree and at first he said yes and then he's like I don't really know if I do a great so hearing from him today the realtor we also heard former neighbor of Chad and Tammy daybell so just kind of setting the scene about the timeframe when Tammy daybell died and then also getting into this fact that Chad had contacted the realtor and wanted to take. Drive and during that drive he was telling him that he was going to be building a house for him and Lori wanting to subdivide his property that he had and asking him if he could build another piece of property on the property that he had. The realtor thought at first it was a little bit small but then thought it could be done and in fact should home could be done quicker then building a home he said at that time it was taking about 8 to 9 months to build a home where a manufactured home could be built in 3 to 4 months. >> And then he and Chad about the whereabouts JJ and tylee so there was this huge search missing children JJ and tylee and so he asked and about it let's listen to what chance response was. >> What did she had tell you about his wife. >> Lori's children and where they were he looked me straight in the eye. >> I and he told me they were they were okay and when this all was going to be when the when everything came out that everything was going to be just fine. >> And Ted, so you heard him say look me straight in the eye and said that everything was going to be just fine. Another witness on the stand this is talking about the time right after Tammy day Bell was deceased and there was a conversation between Tammy daybell's rather at another Gentlemen, and there was a conversation about well do you think that Chad possibly kilter and Tammy daybell's brother said no absolutely not. >> Yeah, it's Up the everyone's reaction to Tammy's death is really on display here for this jury and chaz the one person that didn't seem to have the normal reaction and that seemed to be coming out the state's case but John Pryor hammering on all these witnesses and we're going to head back into the courtroom now Kelley crashed thank you as always we will be hearing from Kelly throughout the day here on Court TV she continues to cover this case for us so John Pryor heard him react to the witness saying you own it you should know he asked for a side bar and then the judge addresses the jury following the sidebar take a listen. >> The council were back on the record I had a sidebar with Council regarding the last response from. The and I just want to instruct this point ladies and gentlemen of the jury the witness just provided. What was essentially an unsolicited factual response and the chase and that answer has no relevance to the charges in this case for the guilt or innocence of the defendant. I'm going struck you to disregard that previous amendment by the witness and on that fact do not discuss that in any way in your deliberations or speculate about the previous answer and also instruct the witness to avoid mentioning that topic em Mister Pryor with that in mind then you continue with your cross-examination thank you judge. >> Now you mentioned that a Chad said the kids are fine. And you mention truth will come out is that what you said something to that effect. >> I didn't say the truth I he's he said that when things all come out. Everybody will realize that everything will be buying OK so from that to to claim that the children were alive. I assumed yes, okay, and did Mister daybell at the time to chat at the time when he told you that was he sincere about what when he told you that. Yes and then you've known him for a while and that was true sincerity when he told you the kids are fine right direction calls for speculation on them and so that's sustained okay. No you talked about the fact there was some discussion and please some. You talked about the discussion it would use generally be against practice to do anything on a Sunday correct. I don't try to work on Sunday, but then for lack of a better word from my perspective that would be called like a 7th is that you familiar with that. Yes. Regardless of your faith and your beliefs, it's a day that you reserved for spending time with your family and and doing in that regard church and family. Yes, okay, and Chad was of the same faith as you are and and that the same the practice of Sunday was reserved for being at home with his family and. Practicing your faith and your commitment to your family would that be fair. Everybody does that different okay and typically most folks and your faith would have some sort me a lot of right there on a Sunday in the morning or the evening as that a true or is that not that's that subjected to OK everybody does that different okay, okay fair enough. Then you went to a discussion that in March of 2020 that there was some discussion about subdividing the property. Is that right estates the testimony. Stand you had some discussion about putting modular home on the property is that right. We have determined by then that we couldn't the county would let him split the property OK but big. >> Has it there was another there had been a a single wide trailer on the property as well as the home. And then another septic system I had told him that the county would probably allow him to put another home on it knowing that he would never be able to split that or sell that step Lee okay, I see. >> So I misunderstood at the facts a little bit. Thank you for clarifying so in other words there was some some thought process. Initially doing some sort of division of the property and you folks determined that was not feasible is that fair that's correct. So the only other option would be to that existing septic. That was already on the property somewhere. >> Correct know OK tell me then. >> Because it had a septic system there that's County would probably allow him to get to put another home on it not necessarily that they would have to use that septic system okay. >> All right so there wasn't intent of March of 2020. From what I gather for Mister daybell and his new wife to to put a resident's up for them to live in. That's what he indicated okay, so the intent was for them to stay for a while now and then a judge and calls for speculation stand. The intention was to put a mobile home up on the property for him and his wife is that right. He had mentioned that that could been could have been one of the reasons. Judge I don't think anything else thank you all redirect your honor I'm sorry to do this but I ask for a brief sidebar I think it would only do this is a good point for mid morning recess, let's go ahead and take the If. >> The jurors are able The state asking for that sidebar triggered a recess in they are actually going to discuss what the state believes is in opening of the door there by John prior rate at the end there. The realtor was explaining the Chad came to him and said hey I want to pop. >> Mobile home on my property Lori and I are going to live happily ever after issue after she's out of jail. then John Pryor asked. >> So there we they were going he was building this so he could live with his his new wife. The state thinks that triggers now motivation for building this mobile home which they believe was so that he could has some cover to dig up all and or deal with the dead bodies in on his property so let's talk about it with the Michael J for big case Mike they he is with us he's a national trial attorney and this is going to be unique argument where the state believes door has been open. Yeah. These are all ways Very pivotal your thoughts is this is an open door. >> Are there is a bit of a stretch that's a tough one that's of. >> Very very very very tight window. I don't think it does right because you to say you know to suggest that hey perhaps he was buying this property to live happily happily ever after with his wife. I don't see how you could open the door to something like that you have to show that you have have to then bring in the evidence to bring it in context right you have to show that that's part of the elements that you have to do so there's going to be an oral motion for the judge before they bring in that testimony they can just come in there just blurted out and that the judge told the jury give them an instructor look you just did forget they ever said that I don't see this judge as she say yet because he brought up that question you can bring up this whole side tangent about the kids that I just don't see that happening crazier things have happened. But I don't think that that would open the door but I do agree with you it does kind of it's a little bit a trip into that direction maybe. >> Well we'll see in Steven Boyce the judges has been very conserve one could argue with his rulings here. This is a death penalty case it will be mulled if you put someone to Guess what that person gets. they get counsel and they get the appeals that they they this will be looked at if it comes back in the death conviction and he seems to be ruling on along those ways not wanting it to be overturned so we'll see what Let's go to break here. Reminder coming up this weekend Court TV special that explores the evidence against Delphi suspected murder. Richard Allen in this we talk exclusively to out his former lead attorney and this is a great interview because you know that defense attorneys all they say they think their guys are innocent well no he really does it kind of makes you think that the rate cut the rate guy the state sure things they do. It's a case you have all been watching for you years this Sunday watch the Delphi murders the case agains Welcome back toward to the We just saw the judge said the jury out from it morning break-in now they're going to argue outside the presence of the jury about. Realtor Ron Arnold what the state believes was John Pryor opening up a door year it John Pryor asked him about the intent of Chad daybell to get this manufacturer don't put on his lot. This is after the state asked him as well and the the. As far as the jury's concerns because Chad wanted live there with lori's so she got out of her legal issues he's in jail at the time. At but the you just open the door to this other theory that he wanted the manufactured homes plopped onto his property so he could deal with the remains of tylee and JJ that are buried there and he knows it. So let's go back into court to what the judge decides and watch the arguments. >> The this witnesses intend I think the door or excuse me having this witness testify about Mister de bill's intent and his sincerity and his rationale for putting this piece of this manufactured home on the property, I think the door has been opened to the fact that it is now Mister Arnold opinion as a realtor and as somebody familiar with what it takes putting a manufactured home on the property Mister de bills urgency and wanting to put that manufactured home on the property while Lori Vallow was incarcerated was due to the Fed that doing excavation would allow him to dispose of evidence I want to miss the prior about that this morning prior to the testimony Mister Arnold I had no intent to get into that on direct, but it's my belief that the door has been opened. >> Response Mister Pryor judge I don't believe the door has been opened in that the the the the the difficulties, I'm allowed to inquire was the end and because the initial testimony if anybody open the door the state when they said well they talked about Chad and Lori wanting to live in the House and there was testimony about that I'm allowed to inquire as to whether or not Chad and Lori were going to be allowed to live in the House and that was their intent to live in the House. There's no intent to open any door there wasn't any opening of any door and if you're going to allow a realtor to speculate on obviously hostile realtor to speculate about something like that I think that's highly prejudicial and it's it's a the door has not been opened at this point. >> I think the door has been opened at this point based on the a cross so all allow that but all the careful spoede it's got to remain within. His personal knowledge, not speculation of course, and I also am somewhat concern and about new witness going back without factual assertion. That's going to confuse the jurors. So. The be cautious if you're going into that territory. But I do think the. Motivation or intent was fraught issue in crossed so I think it is fair game. well want to be ready to. >> Trying to shut things down if it starts to run off the rails on that previous issue as well so that will be the court's it limited questioning on that so long as it goes to direct personal knowledge that this witness may have about the issue. >> And your honor if I may ask just a clarifying question to make I stay within the parameters of the court's ruling. My intent would simply be to ask the realtor it based on his knowledge of you know the process of putting a manufactured home on a piece of property and based on what he's learned about the children being found on the property does he now have a different opinion about why Mister daybell wish to have a manufactured home put on his property. >> As long as it's based on personal opinion on facts that he knows and not just pure speculation. >> All. >> See how the question goes, but I will permit a line of questioning on that. >> Thank you very much on our appreciate it. >> Okay we'll take our break and then we'll try to come back on here 20 minutes 1035. >> The door was open to Michael J for reaction to that ruling by the judge. >> It was narrow, I still don't like but he is he did limited to the realtor only being able to testify to the easy he physically he personally knew. And now Still a little bit surprised by that and I agree with John Pryor John Pryor was an opening in the door. He was following the door that was opened by the prosecution, I like this argument you're not going to win them all, but the Devil's in the details Ted I really want to see how the prosecution follows this thread with Israel's or this realtor is a hostile with hostile witness to the defense. And he's throwing John Pryor for fits House a little bit envious of John priors cross-examination skills up until yesterday still he's still doing a good job, I mean he's dealing with the overwhelming amount of evidence against his client. So this is not a position and V I think this is I'm a little bit I I I I the Devil's in the details I want to see how the prosecution goes through this door that they'd have now proved to the judge that the that has been opened by John John Pryor but knowing John Pryor he's going to come out with a with a paddle and smack him if they if they take any missteps it's not out of the realm of possibility not out of the realm of possibility that you know you could have some sort of a mistrial is too early to say, but John Pryor is the guy to call out BS what he sees it. >> Yeah, I'm so here's what happened we're fast forward a little in we were a bit behind so the jury still not back the party's reassembled. >> And big case my keys. He thinks he know stuff because guess what prior also believes >> gold run the Mormon religion or as a hostile witness and that to be declared. So let's watch. >> See our 20 to 2116 23 state of Idaho versus Chad kd Bell, the jurors are not The court did just want to put something on the record here that we had a side bar. >> Are outside. >> Presence of the jury and the witness and off the record regarding the response is it related to the witness. >> Saying that Mister Pryor was an owner of The court determined that sidebar that that was in the relevant facts for purposes of the case and should be considered by the jury. I just want to make a record of what was said in that side bar our and would ask Council for both the state and the defense to refrain from any further. illicit that since the jury has been instructed to disregarded as any thing to consider and deliberations in the case. So with that in mind. We're continuing with cross-examination I think it's our we're starting with. I apologize we're on redirect is that correct baby okay we'll continue with that accent we can go ahead and have the jurors brought back and. >> So that he was putting that on the record stored the stuff comes up later. The bottom line is this is the point you're talking about Michael the prosecutor has to be careful here right just because the doors open doesn't mean you run through It's a and the judge sort of warned her and as to your point Pryor's going to be ready to pounce it's it's a little bit on that when you have a witness that is definitely trying to win the case you know he's a lay witness a really terrible you can tell he's up there fighting for the state. Sometimes that's not what you want witness correct. >> I don't like didn't like that about the witness when he gave that answer I I grimaced right it was a highly unprofessional. That's not your opportunity to be a comic if you want to be a comic there's a comic strip that you can go Trier had to be a comic very very very difficult to see many people try it not in a murder case. He was trying to be a whimsical he was trying to get what what business do you have first of all you didn't sell John Pryor the property you just found out about it you look at him in a question not related to him only the property. Its Jake you should tell me you all the property that was highly highly highly unprofessional. Highly highly distasteful I didn't like it at And that's just me as an attorney who's been in a courtroom movement was had witnesses tried to be comical it's not that I don't think I've ever seen something like that right no one John ♪ Pryor he's he's going to have an answer you could have a very crafty response. Sometimes you get the prosecution enough threat to hang themselves. Maybe this is baby. This is part of it and this guy has been very impressive. I was not sold on him at the beginning of this trial. I heard you saying something like he's a very good attorney and you you disagreed with me when I said he might not be the right attorney for that case. My assessment ended up being completely incorrect down He he he's doing a good job. >> Let's get a break and then when we come back, we will get the redress we'll see how the prosecutor is able to inch through the door and and not make ♪ Back to Idaho for more testimony in the doomsday prophet murder trial for Chad daybell charged with conspiracy and first-degree murder in the deaths of his first wife Tammy and JJ Vallow and tylee Ryan the 2 youngest children of course of. >> His second wife Lori let's go back now into the courtroom. The jury back in the courtroom looking to pick it up with this redirect a free lift her Ron Arnold the door according to the judge has been open so the prosecutor can ask for Arnold about his opinion of why he now now why he believes Chad really wanted that manufactured home on his property. ♪ >> We spoke about the weekend of September 21st correct correct. And you spoke with Mister Pryor about the weekend of the 21st correct. Correct I just want to be clear for the record. Could it be that the 22nd of September was actually that that Sunday of the weekend of the 21st. >> Whatever whatever day Sunday was that weekend is the day that we at that property, so it was the Sunday of that weekend correct. Thank you. >> You mentioned the that Mister daybell told you that if he had guests in town that day. >> I'm not sure I'm I was aware of that other than the. >> She I'd indicated that they were in going to be in town or around. >> Nothing specific about him having guests. >> In court in town OK so did he make I should ask us a different way did he make any representations to you about how long these folks were going to be in town. No okay well, yeah, correct sorry that's not correct. >> He said they were going to be leaving and could only meet on that Sunday afternoon. OK thank you. Who contacted you about doing the showing of this piece of property Chad. And you are asked about the financial position of David Warwick who wanted to look at that piece of land I was as a realtor do you run credit checks on people but for you show them a piece of property or a house sometimes yes is that something that you would do on a regular basis though no is it unusual that you didn't run a credit check on Mister Warwick that Sunday know. And Mister Pryor talk to you about. The defendants rationale for wanting to move a manufactured home onto his property. In March of 2020 correct. Yes. Now has a realtor are you familiar with what the process of. Installing or are placing a manufactured home on a piece of property is. >> Not all real tip, not all Realtors R. >> Okay, but do you have an idea of what the the generalities of what that would do with what that would take yes I do know that yes okay, and if you assisted other customers and and doing in obtaining manufactured homes and putting them on pieces of property, yes. Can you kind of briefly describe what that process would entail. There's a key word there brief OK I'll try to be brief but as briefly as possible you. >> Procure new park here manufactured home you back to procure piece of property put it on then you have to do on site meaning the foundation you have to dig a foundation for footings and and we're out of touch. The structure we can put the structure on it. You have to either hook up to city water city sewer or if you're in the country you have to well and septic system. >> As a resident of the Salem of what was found on Mister daybell's property in June of 2020 correct. Yes. Based on your knowledge. Well let me backtrack a little bit you are asked by the defense attorney about what you thought about Mister daybell's beliefs are what you are asked Mister daybell's beliefs intentions were for manufactured home on his property, correct. >> Yes, and that. >> One of those reasons could be that he wanted to live there with his wife Laura. When she got out of custody, correct. Yes. Based on what you know now do you think that there may have been a different reason that he wanted to put on that property. Yes. I've no further questions for this witness. >> I didn't open the door for any further re. >> Cross so that will conclude the testimony of Mister Arnold. >> Is he under subpoena by the state. No your honor he can be released. Judge she could be released okay, thank you for a pair and justify you may go ahead and step down and that will conclude your testimony. >> I allowed to stay in work. >> If you'd like to know that you're no longer going to be testifying human. >> the door was open and she squeaked a little bit through it. Michael J for still very cautious, obviously they didn't let him opine about the reason and that is to to deal with these bodies. They just said let's get out there were your thoughts didn't hurt that day that people connect the dots. >> I think all those jurors came into case knowing every single thing in the whole their background and watched the netflix documentary about Lori Vallow daybell right so all the jurors definitely were able to connect. I thought that that was a bad a moment for the defense I don't know why John Pryor didn't object to that last question hey do you think that there was another book how does he know how would he know right how would you ever know what what anyone is thinking we're talking right now United I don't know what you're thinking you know what I'm thinking right like how would he even know that I was kind of surprised that he didn't object even if it was. >> A over you know over rule, but. >> You know I I think they'll connect the dots to die like that we brought you you phrased it. Did they connect the dots I think they I think that was not a good moment for the defense could have been
