ID v Chad Daybell: Neighbor Testifies To 'Red Flags' Around Tammy Daybell's Funeral

good uh Friday to uh you and welcome to court TV live I'm Ted Rollins glad to be with you as we round out another week here another busy week at court TV we're watching testimony in the Doomsday Prophet murder trial for Chad DeBell in Idaho he faces first degre murder charges for the death of his wife Tammy and for the deaths of his 16-year-old uh step kids Tyler Ryan and seven-year-old JJ Val it is a case that we have all watched unfold over the years and there he is Mr Propet Mr Doomsday prosecutors say that he and his wife Lori thought that Lor's two children were dark spirits and zombies and definitely needed to be eliminated so they could Frolic in Hawaii for the defense side John PRI trying to portray debel as a religious fell in a relationship with a very manipulative woman Lori valow deel it's all her fault according to the defense let's go back into the courtroom now on the stand is a neighbor Steven Schulz lived right next to Chad DeBell all right I'm going to just inquire of the witness Mr Schultz now that you've been placed under oath um there is a order in this case prohibiting Witnesses from viewing trial testimony before they testify I'll note that the pral is being live streamed and also open for public attendance uh Mr Schultz have you observed R viewed any of the trial testimony in the case I have not viewed anything okay and have you discussed with anyone else the testimony they've given in the case no okay thank you for that affirmation Mr Wixom you can uh begin your direct thank you your honor excuse me good morning Mr Schultz good morning could you please State and spell your full name for the record it's uh Stephen R Schultz Stephen s v n r s c u l TZ thank you and where do you live Springville Utah and are you currently retired yes I am when did you retire I retired in 200 22 correct yeah and prior to retiring what is it that you did for a living I worked for 25 years with the state of Utah in the child support enforcement Division and uh then for the last well from 2010 through 2010 to 20 22 uh I worked for uh two separate mortuaries in Springville and what did you do for the mortuaries I was a funeral director also an embalmer and uh did you do that for the entire yes approximately 12 years yes and I want to ask do you know Chad DeBell I do how do you know him Chad and I were were Neighbors from when we moved when we moved into the war into the neighborhood we Uh I that was in 200 um six I purchased my parents home who' passed away and Chad lived two doors down and down from me and when you said neighborhood is that in Springville yes in Springville so approximately how many years did you live as neighbors with Mr dille until they left for Idaho I believe it was 2015 at the end of the school year N9 years yeah and what about the rest of his family did you know his wife Tammy I did yes and what about his children yes how well would you say that you you knew the family very well we were we were we were neighbors we attended the same church together we um had many conversations and um work together uh both in in the in funeral industry as well as uh just basic good neighbors would you consider yourself um friends yes you just mentioned that you work together in the industry what what work did Chad do that you're referring to Chad worked for um the I believe it both Springville and Spanish for cemeteries he was the seon and and could you just briefly explain what what did he do as a seon what was his role as a seon he would take care of the cemeter Terry he would basically um assist us in the funerals when we ar arrive for a graveside service he would open and Clos the graves um yeah there was a lot of a lot of free time that we had to talk and a lot of uh share stories and stuff while the funeral burial was going on thank you and I want to draw your attention back to October 19th of 2019 did you learn of the passing of Tammy deell I did how did you learn that the uh the first I know the first I'd heard is that uh Jason gam a neighbor contacted me and said that Tammy had passed away and uh that's that's the first I'd heard of it that was on a Saturday did you later hear from Chad day bill that I did yes a few hours later he he called me and wanted to know if I would be willing to to uh take uh bring Tammy back home to Springville and uh take care of the services down here and I'd say I'd be honored too why did you feel that way because this is a good family this the de Bells were a solid rock in our community they uh in in our exact neighborhood there were five members of the same family in in that vicinity and um I thought highly of all of them um you mentioned the name Jason a moment ago yes were you aware was was Chad acquainted with Jason I would hope so here's his brother-in-law and why did you contact Jason to come with you um a lot of times people would like to assist in the in the funeral services other than uh just being a silent part participant uh when there's an opportunity I like to get the family members involved and plus it was a long drive from Springfield to Rexburg and back in the same day and I would really appreciate somebody who could also help me drive and do that through that whole thing so I asked J and he says he he would love to do that so did you in fact uh go to Rexburg yes we did what day did you do that we did that the following the following day Sunday morning is when we left about what time did you arrive in Reb it was oh I want to say nine or 10 somewhere on that because we had to it's a six it's a four four and a half five hour drive and uh yeah so we we arrived about that time where did you first go when you came to Idaho we went directly to the house whose house to J excuse me to Chad's house Chad and Tammy's house and when you arrived there who who was at the home there was a obviously the coach Chad and his oldest son G and uh his Chad's parents did you talk to Chad I did yeah can you explain to the jury what that conversation was please basically uh I I went up to approached him gave him a hug and said I am so sorry for for your loss um this was a devastating blow to him I'm sure and as it was for me to know that uh some of his young as Tammy was had passed away did you have a conversation with him about how Tammy had passed I did what was that conversation um I just asked him he says what had happened and he said that uh she had been experiencing some difficulty with breathing and and uh and she went went to bed that night and then when he woke up at some time during the evening of the morning I'm not sure when because I wasn't there that she had passed uh she passed away I believe he found her on the floor and then he called gar in to help help lift his mom back into the bed and and that's what he told me did he say anything to you about conversations that he had had with the coroner he did I I asked him who the who the um attending physician was and he said well we had the County coroner come and the County coroner had already been there and left before we we arrived and um she um he said the county corers um said that U it appears that she may have died from an embolism um and then um she just uh like she left after that um I did ask Chad if if they were going to do an autop which um is usually a case when there's when there's not a an attending physician there but the in this case the county um coroner was uh was that was the person cap in charge at that point and made the decisions as to that they should go ahead and be involved did Chad express to you whether or not he wanted an autopsy he he did not want an autopsy did he say that in so many words or how did he Express that that's pretty much it yeah he say I is that they're going to do an autopsy to find out because you know it might be for for your for heredity sake children might want to know why how their mother passed away and so they could you know watch for symptom signs stuff like that but uh yeah the so basically the words were now I do not want her to have an autopsy what other things do you recall discussing with Chad that morning I always come prepared when uh when I'm sting going a long distance like that well I'll bring the the booklets that I need I'll bring a casket book so they can pick out caskets I I try to do all that in the home so they don't have to make a secondary trip into uh into the mortuary to make those arrangements so most of the arrangements were done um by the time we left the the place as far as choosing a casket choosing a vault choosing a place where they're going to be buried um putting together a program was still left open because this is all things happened very quickly when you say very quickly what do you mean by that uh quickly meaning that uh he he wanted to have this the funeral service as soon as possible and uh this was on a Sunday morning and uh I said well you with social media we need to have word get around so the people will know so you'll have somebody showing up at the funeral and uh even announcing in the newspaper there's deadlines to meet and um so he he said he wanted to to to get this done just as quickly as he could his words not mine what was his proposed funeral schedule um the the uh he wanted to do it as quickly as he could I think there was some discussion if he even possibly doing it Monday but uh that was very quick we talked about it and he said we'll do the viewing on Monday and we we came to a a reasonable conclusion that the the funeral on Tuesday would probably suffice in your experience as a funeral director would you say that scheduling was in the norm no uh usually there's a three 4 day time frame time period um between the death and the and the funeral sometimes up to a weeks there have been funerals that we've not held for for weeks um and why why do you typically at least have three or four days what's the reason for that the the preparation to get things ready for the funeral like I said for to Asain information for the death certificates to get uh programs together and and gathered um letting people know setting up the church setting uh putting the Release Society in motion so that they can have the the lunch and prepared uh it can be done in a in a fure in a few couple of days but for the most part just to give them the opportunity did you notice anything about Chad's demeanor all right Stephen Schultz on the stand funeral director former neighbor and colleague remember Chad used to be a grav Digger so he and stevenh went way back said I would love the day Bells um but then Chad wanted a quick burial quick funeral and and that stood out to him and no autopsy let's talk about Cory piges is here in studio along with Michelle Thomas in studio good to see you both on this Friday uh Michelle do you first what stands out here um this guy seems pretty true blue straight lace and um and even he was a little bit hm no no autopsy right well thanks for having me Ted so he's showing us that this defendant had no sort of sympathies or concern about his wife who had just passed that's not your typical sort of response like I want to you know bury her and get get the funer arrangement is over with as soon as possible he should have been grieving he should have been mourning maybe some tears would have been helpful but according to this witness he was just sort of like let's make the plans let's get this done so we can move on and I think that really is going to stand out Chad had predicted Tammy's demise for years and the defense sort of is trying to in a weird way using that thing well he predicted it and it happened of course he's not going to be um too floored I mean this is a guy with visions he understands these things that us IM Mortals don't um is that going to fly though with the jury well I got a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you also to okay that's not going to fly I mean I could predict me passing away we there's one everybody is eventually going to leave Earth so I'm not going going to buy it and there's just too many holes in his story and remember this is four deaths right there Michelle four we got yeah they're piling up we got the two kids and we got Lor's ex-husband um and Alex Cox is soon to go and of course they don't know about the kids they don't know where the kids are yet that they're on Chad's um land but you're right this the problem here is sure you could maybe get around this one little issue like this okay you know this one little no this is one of a hundred that are piling up these little things we'll see how John prior deals with it on Cross let's get a break here um before we go to break coming up this weekend a new special on cork TV it explores the evidence against Deli murder suspect Richard Allen exclusive interview with his former lead defense attorney and and also one of uh his best friends a lot of people don't think they have the right guy you'll be able to watch it all play out here right here on court TV the case against Richard Allen the deli murder Sunday 8:00 Eastern right [Music] here we are underway in the trial of Doomsday profet Chad Dell prosecutors say they will seek the death penalty against him investigators have recovered human remains at Chad Dell's residence there's no way Lan I can never come up best his wife Lori valade Bell has already been convicted now will her husband end up with the same fate it's just so hard to know where the truth ends it's the Doomsday Prophet Chad deel on [Music] trial welcome back TV live testimony continues in the Idaho for the man accused of murdering two kids and his first wife Tammy prosecutors say that Chad dbel killed Tammy dbel JJ valow and Ty Ryan because they were obstacles in his plan to be with Lori Val deel on the stand is Steven Smith he's a former neighbor and colleague of Chad back in his grave digging days let's go back into the courtroom we'll pick up the direct examination where we left off did you notice anything about Chad's demeanor and tone when you were interacting with him planning the funeral arrangement when when I was there uh of course when I when I gave him the hug he was teary and he just lost his wife but um it just seemed like uh there was an an a business-like atmosphere about it which could be either a person's way of De dealing with grief or it could be I want to get this thing done and over with um in fact I believe the direct words to me were I don't want to drag this out I want to drag this the this whole process out I says okay we'll work hard and try to get it done by by Tuesday did he happen to articulate in reasons why he didn't want to drag it out uh no I just wanted it I think it was just for because that that's sometimes is a long time to to wait to bury somebody maybe three days five days one week 10 days whatever before the service he didn't want to have the the hoopla of that going on so when you finished talking to to Chad making these Arrangements what did you do next uh at that point when we were all finished with the arrangements uh we we moved over then to contact the mortician who actually picked Tammy up and did the embalming it was flam Funeral Home in Rexburg uh I made a phone call to Mr flam indicating that we were finished at Chad's house and that we would like to pick Tammy up and bring her back to Springville and so he left his church meeting that he was in in attendance to there and we met him at the mortuary his Mortuary is that a normal thing when there's a a deceased that needs to go to another state do you normally contact the local Mortuary yes we call that a trade in bombing where they will do the first call when the person they get the first notification of death they will go ahead and inal and then prepare whatever they need to and then they contact uh the family will then contact a mortuary to come and and whoever's going to be doing the service which in this case was was Chad and called me directly and Mr I'm just going to ask the witness could you slow down a bit um our court reporter you're you're talking pretty quickly it's fine you're articulate but uh for repor sake if we could just slow down the pace thank you sir so when you arrived at flams what what did you do uh we met Mr um Mr flam and uh he directed me to the to the uh the dressing room which we call it is the room outside the outside the embalming room and uh he uh he assisted me in moving Tammy from the table over to the uh the cut that I had brought up so that we could uh uh transport her back home did you make any observations of Tammy at that point just a just a quick glance because I'm I'm I'm concerned as well that this was a this was was a uh a sudden death I'm I understand that she was sick but somebody that young is usually that is usually physically enough to to overcome it but I I wasn't there during her during her convalescence So when you say that you understand she was sick how did you have that understanding um I I talked to to Jason and indicated that that's what he that that uh that he he was told the same thing but I actually heard that directly from Chad as well she was not feeling well she was had a chronic cough she was uh sick um and um yeah so your understanding of her sickness was from the information provided by Chad is that fair yes yes and you said something a moment ago I'd like you to comment more to the jury on you said you looked at the body because you were concerned can you explain the concern that you had whenever there's whenever there's somebody who's passed away without like without the doctor's uh being there to to to handle that I'm always really leery of uh things such as well I I I don't want to have an autopsy I don't want to um I don't want to drag this thing out and there were already some red flags that I that I had encountered um prior to her passing away that uh just there was there was a cause of Suspicion for me and not suspicion con concern I wanted to find out if she had fallen if there was you know anything wrong with with Tammy uh slam funeral home actually uh did an excellent job in the impaling process and I I just glanced at her just briefly checking for any type of broken bones uh um Mar marks uh on the face on the neck on the arms and the Torso because uh she she was there and in the process of moving we did we did see her entire body and but I saw absolutely nothing that I could determine I'm not a medical examine I don't know so In fairness you found nothing that you thought would be suspicious I found nothing there that would be suspicious that would lead to my suspicions but um because of the the red flags it just something wasn't sitting well with me other than I don't want to drag it out I don't want an autopsy was there anything else causing red flags for you uh this the speed of the trial um the trial the speed of the funeral kind uh no and eventually you did transport 10 body back to Springville we did Jason gam and myself moved transferred her all the way back to uh to Springville and without stating anything that Jason said did you have a discussion with Jason about Tammy on the drive back I did what kinds of things did you bring up and say to Jason in that conversation in that conversation we were both uh talking about how quickly things were doing it how quickly things were happening we both felt there was a feeling of of being rushed uh through this whole process and I I actually turned to Jason and I said do you think he killed her was that based upon the red flags that you were feeling was based on the red flags and when you arrived at the funeral home in Springville did you do anything further with Tammy's body prepared her for the family who were going to come in later Sunday night uh to to dress her or to finish dressing her um typically a funeral director will uh cloth them up to um usually for sure to have the underwear on and and and uh get the body prepped ready so that they can come in and help dress I did most of the dressing myself on this because they only wanted really to do the makeup to make sure she looked good did you reexamine her body at the spring funeral home I did just out a curiosity for myself just to satisfy my curiosity as to was there anything wrong I saw absolutely nothing wrong so there are at least two times that you body that's correct thank you sir you're I don't have any questions at this time all right thanks Mr ROM okay that's the um direct examination we'll see what John prior does with this witness uh Cory pigis Michelle Thomas still with us cour to you first on this all right so the the guy wanted to bury his wife quickly you know in some religions you have to right away obviously this is it was a little bit out of context for them and what they knew of the day Bells um his entire direct uh do you think it moved the ball in terms of uh I mean obviously he felt something was weird well it just the jury probably listening to him and saying well listen he already said that he asked Jason do you think he killed him cuz he's asking like simple questions like why are you doing this so fast um you don't want to do an autopsy for hereditary reason like just simple normal questions and he's like no no no put in the Box let's get this done on Sunday see you at 6 p.m. people do grieve differently though Michelle um and you know maybe he was just in shock sure there's it's one thing to grieve differently it's another thing to say I want to bury my wife in 48 hours and not shed a tear and not express any kind of real you know grief or just sorrow about the process so that coupled with there being no autopsy uh requested by the defendant would raise an eyebrow I mean this is the mother of your children your children are probably torn up and grieving harshly and wouldn't you want answers and find out what happened to my wife and our children's Mother so all of it is just kind of it really does raise an eyebrow yeah where everyone in else is thinking oh my gosh damn he's dead and and you're just like yeah can we get the show on the road here and uh it does it it's got to hit with the jurors you would think now cross-examination with all of these Witnesses has always been something John prior goes in and and guess what um he is going to ask Mr Schultz uh because you heard him say I thought ched was a great guy well coming up you're going to hear John prior say do you still think he's a good guy wait till you he the answer stay with [Music] us let's head back to Idaho for more testimony in the Doomsday profit murder trial Chad deel charged with conspiracy and first-degree murder the deaths of his first wife Tammy and JJ Val and Tyler Ryan the two youngest children of his second wife Lori let's head back now it's time for cross-examination uh and um watch closely John prior puts it out there with Chad's former neighbor um I also have a tendency to talk quick and over people and it's an Affliction I have so between the two of us this should be interesting I'll try to slow down though you've known Chad's family um actually longer than you actually have known Chad is that right well yeah no i' I've known of Chad but when I really got to know Chad was when we moved into the ward that's why I got to know him better okay I knew his his parents um from uh the same general area of town that we grew up in okay okay and do you recall that you um spoke with officer mattingley about this case in an interview um on February 19th of 2020 yes okay and an officer maddingly went over a number of topics and I'd like to talk to you a little bit about each of her if we could okay um you mentioned the name Jason William and Jason gam is related is it Jason gam yes Jason gam is the husband of Samantha gam who is the the sister of Tammy D okay and um you mentioned uh uh something about Jason and um Jason knew Chad fairly well I would hope so yes you would been a part of their family forever spoke very highly of Chad correct had a very high opinion of Chad is that right that's correct and you as well you had mentioned in the report um you thought Chad was a a good guy yes okay do you still have that opinion um I I I just I think Chad is a good person okay all right you mentioned with um officer madingley uh the Chad had spoke to you a little bit about uh what happened um regarding Tammy is that right about the manner in which she passed away is that correct yes I had that conversation with Chad do you recall telling officer maddingly um the Chad said Tammy had been sick and had a coughing spasm and he woke up found her dead I'm repeating that from what Chad had told me okay and you mentioned that off that Jason William also was aware that Tammy had some medical issues as well is that right that's what that's what um so Jason had indicated to me as well during your discussion with Jason there was a history of some medical problems that Tammy was experiencing as is that correct I don't know if I can confirm that okay but you talked to Jason about some medical problems correct that the that he had heard from Chad as well okay okay um at the time you told officer maddingley that uh Chad found her dead beside the bed in the morning and he called G to come and help out do you recall telling officer mingly that yes um that Chad said he thought the coroner told him Tammy had an embolism Chad told Jason or me told you yeah okay Chad told me that the corner conf said that she apparently died from an embolism and and sir how long have you um uh practiced uh the occupation that you practice until your retirement in 2022 uh about 12 years okay so you've had a significant amount of experience in viewing bodies and and looking for uh things that you you have a concern about regarding issues relating to to people after they've passed is would that be fair yes and you understand um and and please let me know uh that um if there ever is an instant where you were to find some problem with a body whether it was something suspicious or something something of a concern are you under a legal obligation to report that to law enforcement as part of your licensing typically not because I would um that would should have been overlooked already by either the medical examiner the coroner or the uh the Doctor Who was U who was the attending physician okay so you're not under any legal obligation to report if you see something suspicious no but under a moral obligation you would report something if you found it suspicious would you not you know what I I don't know if I really would report it or not because it's already been determined by that attending person right who knew that so I don't know who I reported to okay so when you say that attending person if if someone passes away and there's a physician there obviously there's no need to do an autopsy is that right only if the uh only if the medical examiner dictates requires one a lot of times the family will ask us if we we want to have an autopsy done in that case they can bypass the the medical examiner and have it done a a private autopsy done okay just to satisfy their curiosity But ultimately do you understand that a a coroner is the one who makes the final decision as to whether or not there's going to be an autopsy yes because that that person will then um contact the family and it's really the coroner's obligation to go through and look at a body and make an initial determination as to whether or not there's any Foul Play or anything of a concern would that be fair it's a good question because uh if you'd have to trust your your medical examiner or your coroner right right and when they and you don't know whether or not after they make this examination if they're under any obligation to report any Foul Play do you I I don't know what they're okay I don't hav but in any event um you took the time because you felt that the funeral was was moving along quicker than you would like it to be outside the standard Norm yes and and when you talked about the standard Norm you mentioned that the standard Norm is three to four days typically okay so what we were looking at is doing this in two days not three days right yes but there was some talk about one in to do it on a Monday right so that uh again okay uh cross examination with John prior Cory PES and Michelle Thomas are still uh with us Michelle is usually in Silver Spring Maryland but now she's in our studio Corey usually in New York glad to have both of you here on this Friday Michelle what do you think of this this answer do you still think he's a good guy he said yes yeah that was an unfortunate answer for this witness because that is not what the state wanted him to say they wanted him to say well no actually I think that he murdered his wife and therefore you're not a good person but unfor was risky wasn't it asking that question it was it was it could have gone left but he got the answer that he was looking for a defense counsel so um they're going to have to rehabilitate him on redirect regarding that that particular question Cory were you surprised that uh that the answer was you I still think he's a good guy I mean I've you know OJ some people thought was a good guy yeah but the problem is here once someone is a um if if at one end you think he killed Tammy um why do you think he said yes that he think he a good guy well I was I was actually more surprised that there was a long pause he asked him the question I'm like tapping Michelle like is is he going to answer the question it was like 3 to five seconds so they have a relationship though for many years right so you know he maybe uh he's a good guy but I still think he murdered Tammy right how do you clean that up for the state Michelle or do you do you go back in or is too risky you don't want him to reiterate do you think that that he thinks Chad's a great guy or good guy I think it's worth the effort for the state to try to rehabilitate him if they ask the right questions point at questions and say you know was there a time when you thought he was a good person when you two were friends but today you know now that you had at once you had these suspicions did that change did you ever then think of him in any other kind of way so I think they should make the effort to try to clean that up up because it's not helpful um for the state yeah absolutely all right let's get a break here um when we come back we're going to hear the state come back and one of the questions asked from the state is is Chad someone who's comfortable around death we'll get the answer to that question and see if they try to get some explanation on this good guy talk about Chad debel right after this we are underway in the trial of Doomsday prophet Chad deell prosecutors say they will seek the death penalty against him investigators have recovered human remains at Chad Dell's residence no way Lan I can ever come up with this his wife Lori valad Bell has already been convicted now will her husband end up with the same fate it's just so hard to know where the truth ends it's the Doomsday Prophet Chad deel on trial [Music] we've been watching testimony in Idaho it's day 12 of the Doomsday profit murder trial against Chad deell he faces first degree murder charges for the 2019 deaths of his first wife Tammy and his second wife Lori Val's kids JJ and tyly their bodies of course found on Old Chad's property back in 2020 let's head back into the courtroom now picking up the cross examination right where we left off of Chad's former neighbor and colleague that uh again just certain red flags that yeah but you don't know if whether or not this was a reaction to grief or whether just someone wanted to just you know not as you expressed it the hoopla and what do you mean by the hoopla um getting things ready for for the for the program getting things ready for uh lunch and need to transpire do things that the typical funeral would have to would have to uh um take some time to prepare and get get people on board with you and and in your experience that could have two assets to it that could either be a a healing process for the family to go through that right that could or on the alternative that could be an extremely emotional and difficult thing to go through that that healing process and we don't know which one we were dealing with here right we do not right okay and according to what I'm reading in officer mingle's report you told him Chad said he didn't want to drag this thing out right he didn't say he wanted to hide anything did he no he did not the only thing he told me was he did not want to drag this thing out okay okay um and then you um took the time uh and you took the time to look at the the face of Tammy is that right correct you looked at the neck yes you didn't see any issues of any kind of trauma or anything that would cause anything of a concern is that right from my liit of medical knowledge no right and and I understand that you don't have the expertise but there if if there was a concern there there was no visible concern of any kind of a problem is that right that's correct and then you looked at her arms as you dressed her as is that right yes and you didn't see anything on her arms that would cause you any kind of a concern would that be fair yes okay and nothing on her legs that would cause you to have any concern right correct okay nothing on any other part of her body that would make you draw any concerns for you would that be fair correct okay he talked about Chad um being a seon and a sexton is someone who works in a the funeral business is that right correct and Chad's occupation was to part of it was to mow the grounds or take care of the lawn and the grounds area that's that's part of his responsibility yes and in terms of dealing with the actual um grave sites uh there wasn't a situation where he would actually hand dig the graves would he very few hand dig hand dig they have a a back hole right and you you anticipated what I say nobody nobody us uses a shovel anymore to do that that's from the 1800s whenever yeah so in in essence what it is is someone on your staff would take out a back ho and use a back ho to dig up a um a grave right from the seon's from the seon's boss mean or yeah the seon's boss would do that or who would do that use the back ho who determined to use the back ho who who would be authorized to use the back ho when you're when you're doing that as part of this process it's typically the sex then okay so um Chad might have had some experience with a backhoe right it does okay maybe not experienced with using a shovel to dig Graves though right correct right okay the cross continues uh John prior trying to get out of this funeral director that um that Chad's just maybe an oddball but a good guy Michelle Thomas and uh Cory PES still with us final thoughts here um before we hit a break Cory end of the day we're seeing a lot of these things that John prior is fighting and fighting and fighting and and you you watch you're like okay well maybe he'll hook a jur or that the problem is it's building there's too much there's too much to explain away your thoughts yeah I think it's a heavy Hill to climb but at least he's g i given him a a a for e e for effort or a A for effort an A+ an A+ he's trying but it's too much he's a great lawyer and and I know a lot of people are like stop talking about how great John prior is it's a fact he's doing a good job I don't think he has a chance here because of the the the the facts and the big two are that those two kids are on his property Michelle not only are they on his property but he's a a Gravedigger as a profession know as a profession so that doesn't help and a profit and a profit so none of those facts add up and you know John prior the facts are not on his side but he is doing the best he can to try to identify some points to try to save his client and and at some point Cory it might be a win here is sparing him the death penalty that is the win that's the win not getting a death penalty and if you're a juror the the it's always difficult we cover so many death penalty cases where you're thinking oh slam dunk this person did it did it did it and the end of the day the death qualified juror who in vaud ear said absolutely I voted for this a million times and I sat in my living room uh talking about the death penalty now you're in the jury box and you have someone's life in your hands it's much different is it not absolutely because that decision you know will weigh on you probably for the rest of your life and so the jurors when it's them having to make that decision they definitely I think give it a lot more weight and and a cycle wait a minute not so fast with the death penalty into the courtroom now the final moments of cross-examination of Steven Schultz he's a former neighbor and friend U of of Chad but also former colleague he is a funeral director and remember Chad used to work in that business as a graved digger he's opining about how he had an - oh feeling after Tammy died Chad wanted to rush the funeral along now at the time of the service um all of the kids spoke is that right yes okay all five kids um wait one was on a mission I believe oh I'm sorry you're right four kids four kids you're right um when Tad Chad was talking during the funeral he broke down he became very emotional he did okay was that something that in all of the experience that you've had knowing Chad and his family did that seem genuine yes it it appeared genuine from from my point of view and in your point of view is that you've known Chad for good part of his life is that right yes well not his entire life for that nine nine to 10 year period when we moved into the neighborhood and you worked with them long I work with them and you had an opportunity like you said during the time that you uh had downtime during other people's funerals you'd have a chance to get acquainted with each other correct so much that you made the opinion that you think Chad's a good guy that I yes okay from 2000 up until 2015 I had no problems right and um then during the actual funeral you had noticed that Chad and Emma were crying as well yes um Chad was doing something with his hair he was emotional that he was tugging on his hair or something you said okay now this that is part of the I just barely got to see the U the uh police report maybe about two weeks ago oh okay there was either a typo or I had Miss maybe I'd given the information Chad talking about Chad uh I may have mentioned Chad in the report it was not Chad in the U who was leaning over the the casket and um and it was it was his son G okay was there showing the extreme distress emotional distress and and Emma was there as well okay and and were you aware that um G and Tammy were extremely close yes they Tammy was a good mother to all of her children she was particularly close with gar though do you Rec I don't know if I could answer that she was one way or the other okay can't put a hierarchy to it okay and I appreciate that okay you mentioned somewhere in the report that you thought of Chad as a brother is that right yeah yes I did and again Jason William at the time of the death of Tammy didn't say anything particularly negative about Chad right no in fact he defended him with uh with my comment about do you think he killed her right oh no Jason shared the same opinion that Chad is someone who's a good person yes he would he would never do that according to according to him and sir thank you and I I appreciate than redirect thank you honor Mr Schultz to pick up where the defense just left off excuse me did Jason in addition to thinking he Chad is a good person express any other thoughts about Chad at that time no the the the thing that he mentioned was when I when I made that comment his his direct quote back to me is oh no not Chad never have you since had conversations with Jason about this yes are you aware if he holds the same opinion he does not hold the same opinion and I want to go back to the question that you were asked about your opinion of Chad you remember that question yes and in that question in your answer you said effectively Chad is a good person but will you please explain to the jury now what was the but what were you wanting to say at that point well the but was the red flags that uh that have come up since Tammy was deceased and uh in the time of the the basically the trial the things that were were being said that the uh if you on particulars um certainly if you like to show with the J okay um well there's obviously the the the Doomsday type thing that after he left Utah he um got involved in in a group you want to cut me off but oh sorry I tell you raising your hand no sorry um I had the uh uh most of this was from Jason who had conversations with him as well um about uh a date of the of the second coming when that would Happ when that would happen also of the um of the catastrophes that would follow Deer Creek dam breaking Utah County being flooded um um white tents in a city being developed um for for the chosen the elected the people and those types of things are what made me have the the suspicion when I went up there and found things being appeared to be rushed in my in my opinion and that's why uh that those are the red flags that I you you were asked a question about the norm of a funeral typically being more than 3 or 4 days 3 or four days on the average and you still felt like this situation was rushed is that right yes was the fact that the death had occurred on a Saturday and there was a desire to have a a funeral or at least a viewing Monday does that play into the rushed feeling it does because everything's closed on the weekend you you can't get a death certificate you can't uh uh you you find uh we have to have time to order caskets in we have to have time for the whatever the funeral preparation it it can be done and in this case I think it was done by having the funeral on Tuesday because that gave us one full working day where we could contact the authorities that we needed to to get everything uh in order and ready for the service on a Sunday are you able to contact a newspaper to put in an obituary we can put one in but it's not guaranteed that it will be in the next publication was that part of your concern for The Rush yes you were asked questions about Chad's ability to use a shovel versus a backhoe yeah I'm not sure where that we don't use shovels anymore except for find when you're done burying then you use a little bit of shovel just to kind of flatten out the the blot based on your background and experience with Chad particularly that work background that you already talked about right would it be safe to say was Chad someone who was comfortable around death oh he would have to be um and yes he Chad wrote he's he's an author he's written books about uh about death and dying as well he's he he's he's not squeamish about anything to as far as being around a dead person although that would must have been traumatic for him just to have his wife in that position but um yeah thank you sir your honor I don't have any more questions all right thank you Mr Wixom uh Mr prior that was narrow re direct is do you have any requests for recross all right that final topic I think went outside the scope of uh direct so you may inquire on that final topic about the books well judge on the comfortable with death as well yes that's it okay being involved in the funeral business such as you are you are also comfortable with death and viewing bodies is that right correct and that goes with part of the occupation would that be fair yes okay and just because someone writes books doesn't necessarily mean if Chad hadn't had his experience as a sexon just the fact that someone writes books about topics that make some people uncomfortable doesn't mean that you're necessarily comfortable with death would you agree with that I'm not really sure can you rephrase that sure just because someone writes books about topics that make people uncomfortable does that mean that you're necessarily A comfortable with death if you've had no other experience I think that would probably have to vary from person to person that's fair enough thank you I appreciate it byebye all right that'll conclude the testimony of Mr Schultz is the state intending okay that's it for the funeral director uh Steven Schultz talking about his feelings about Chad and and Tammy and the way that Chad wanted this all to happen so fast after Tammy's death and he knew Tammy and and uh he was with his associate Jason Gillum who knew Tammy and Chad very well because he's married to Tammy's sister and the both of them had suspicions when they were driving Tammy back to Springfield let's bring in Matthew Menino he's in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania criminal defense attorney former district attorney Matthew what's your take here on this on this uh witness that you on Cross he said he still thinks Chad's a good guy U um maybe that's a wind but bottom line is it's another person that is painting a suspicious picture surrounding Tammy's death yes uh Ted he he does um you know paint this picture of um suspicion or sort of doubt about the the manner of of Tammy's death uh he talks about the things that sort of piqued his interest and one was this whole uh Doomsday uh situation uh but also that he wanted to that Chad deel wanted to rush the funeral uh that uh that he couldn't do certain things that he normally would do in preparation for a funeral because of the weekend he wasn't sure about the obituary and so he was concerned uh about why uh the showing and ultimately the funeral was being rushed but again as you also said uh you know the defense was able to to get out of him that that Chad deel was like a brother to him uh that they were very close and he never would have suspected anything like this other than uh when these issues began to arise that that sort of got his attention yeah and he did two independent um sort of surveys of Tammy's body looking for something because he had that feeling that this wasn't right and he didn't find anything um that was suspicious in that cursory sort of examination obviously not a doctor um but he um he he was suspicious enough to look for something out of the ordinary and didn't find it

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Id: LLD5uoj_1I8

Length: 56min 5sec (3365 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 26 2024