Can You Be Gay and Christian? Dr. Michael Brown

I just want to take a moment for those who don't know me at all I'm a Jewish believer in Jesus God saved me in 1971 as a heroine shooting LSD using hippie rock drummer 16 years old I went to my first church service to pull my best friend's out and over those months afterwards God began to deal with me convict me of my sin open my eyes to the gospel and then I was radically saved at the end of 1971 when I first came to a service at a church one of the young ladies knew me in high school and she wrote down in her diary Antichrist comes to church I mean I was a wicked sinful rebel the drugs were just a manifestation of other wickedness in my life and what happened subsequently though was you know I got saved my life radically changed two and a half years later met my wife Nancy also Jewish she was a hardcore atheist when we met God saved her brought us together and we're celebrating 39 years of marriage next month amen so so sometime after we were saved I found an old picture in my drug days and long hair and and she started laughing I said you're laughing because I look like a woman she said no I'm laughing because you look like an ugly woman if you don't believe that years ago I wrote my testimony out in a tract and called it from LSD to PhD and if you get on line and just put in my name Michael Brown LSD to PhD you'll find you'll find some of those old pictures before I was saved and you will agree with her assessment alright listen when I'm done with this talk before we break I'll tell you how you can connect with us on internet we have thousands of hours literally thousands of hours or free resources online I do a live radio show two hours a day in different cities across America it's not on live here right now but you can listen live online you can subscribe by podcast or catch broadcasts after the fact that's two hours a day we post lots of new videos on YouTube I normally write three or four sometimes five new articles a week you may see something happening in the news you're disturbed about it I'll be talking about it on radio or writing about it the next day so my radio show I'm introduced as your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution and that's really what we seek to do on a daily basis right the question of homosexuality in the Bible can you be gay and Christian a pastor recently said to me my generation needing people older like me when we hear the word homosexuality we think of an issue when a young person hears the word homosexuality they think of a person and and this is both an issue in society and in Scripture as well as a person and what I'm saying tonight I want to say with as much grace and truth as possible I want to speak with accuracy with clarity and with a heart overflowing with love someone that I don't know was attacking my position on Twitter on internet the other day and I only don't have time to engage everyone but I decided to engage this person who wanted to know why I was attacking gays and judging gays and Jesus said not to judge I said to one aren't you judging me seems like you're judging me right now I said but when I give the good news of Jesus how am i attacking gays and he responds well the two main things stopping gays from coming to God or Satan and people like you why was he so upset why we see so angry why is this so volatile on the one hand some of you say where there's no issue the Bible's black and white on it is just the compromise of the society it's things getting darker around us why is there even any question and others are saying how could you be so bigoted and small-minded with your old interpretations of the Bible and not looking at the evidence of people who love God and are practicing homosexual men and women because we are dealing with people as well as with an important cultural and theological issue we need to be as careful as we possibly can and here's the danger the emotional issues can be very powerful the emotional arguments can be very powerful are we going to tell an eighteen-year-old kid that we're witnessing to that says well I'm gay and what does Jesus have for me and we talk about forgiveness of sins in new life and then that person says well I have to be celibate the rest of my life I tried to change I can change I have friends that tried to change you tell might never marry going to be celibate the rest of my life to follow Jesus how was that good news or the gospel to that person it's a powerful emotional argument maybe some of the nicest people you know identify as gay and lesbian they're not marching down the street and some vulgar parade they they want to live a committed life they want to raise a family together who are we to tell them it's wrong on the other hand God's Word doesn't change based on what's in and out in society God's Word doesn't change based on the latest trends God does not care about polls and popular opinion and every one of us who claims to be a follower of Jesus here's where we have to start doesn't matter what your background is doesn't matter what denomination you come from doesn't matter the color of your skin your ethnicity doesn't matter how you identify in terms of sexual orientation the only question is God what is right in your sight how can I live a life pleasing to you what do you require of me we're going to look at a lot of Scripture and it will be as clear and outlined as we can but let me say fundamentally what I have seen as a fatal flaw and the theology of those who say you can practice homosexuality and follow Jesus at the same time I've read their stories I've wept over their stories I've sat and talked face-to-face with tears reaching out and love I've agonized over these things I don't take them lightly but this is what I've seen consistently as a testimony that someone will say I've studied the Bible and you know there are lots of different and curve rotations about the Bible and I'm really not sure what it says but I do know that I'm gay and what they end up doing is interpreting the Bible through the lens of their sexuality rather than interpreting their sexuality through the lens of the Bible where we need to start as God your word is truth your word is without flaw your word is perfect in every way open our hearts and minds to receive your truth and then whatever you say we will joyfully follow you knowing that your ways are best go with me to Hebrews chapter 4 Hebrews chapter 4 this verse does not deal directly with the issue of homosexuality again the question we're asking has to do with homosexual practice homosexual relationships as opposed to having an attraction or a desire in itself and we'll come to that in a moment Hebrews 4 verse 12 says this for the word of God is living and active sharper than any double-edged sword it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit joints and marrow it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account notice that it says it divides to the very separation of soul and spirit here speaking of soul would be speaking about our emotions our mind our thoughts and spirit our innermost being and many times our thoughts can be deceptive many time emotions can be deceptive and fleeting you might be watching some old classic movie some tearjerker and you're sitting there crying it's just a movie it's just actors and actresses and you know that but it's got the music playing and the whole atmosphere you turn the music off suddenly the spell is broken the Word of God has the power to break the spell of a oceans and culture over our lives and to get us thinking clearly I had a pastor on my radio show last year Methodist pastor named Frank Schaeffer not Frankie Schaeffer the son of the famous Francis Schaeffer but Frank Schaeffer a Methodist pastor he had been defrocked by the Methodist Church because he performed the same-sex quote wedding for his son and his son's partner and he was a very nice man a caring man was shocked that the church would discipline him for doing what he thought was a loving gracious thing to do the church has since reinstated him and he said that he was questioning some Bible teaching before his son came out as gay but once his son came out as gay he had to reevaluate what the Bible said and then he felt that walking in love required him to bless his son and that his son wanted to be in a loving relationship with another man and therefore he should bless it I asked him what if your son came to you and said dad I made a terrible mistake I've been under deep conviction by the Holy Spirit I know I did the wrong thing and God does not want me in this relationship I said would that cause you to have to restart the issue again he said absolutely of course it would that said everything right there jesus warned about it in Matthew 10:37 whoever loves father or daughter more than me is not worthy of me whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me father and mother son and daughter if they love them more than me they're not worthy of me Jesus is saying that our first loyalty must be absolutely to him and out of that we can truly love others the way God intends us to so we need the Word of God to pierce through any confusion that we have and it also says nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight the Word of God reveals who we are to the very depth of our being my scholarly training is in Bible and ancient languages by PhD from New York University as in Near Eastern languages and literature so Hebrew and and the ancient Semitic languages and the literature of that day so it's a field I still working I have a commentary written on Jeremiah I'm finishing a commentary on job now I can tell you as one who does this academically and I'm an adjunct professor at four different seminaries I can tell you that there is no new data that has been discovered that changes what we always thought the Bible was saying about this no new texts have been discovered no new manuscripts of the Bible have been discovered that change this there is no new linguistic data no new archaeological data in other words the reason that people are questioning what the Bible says is not because the Bible is unclear and not because there's new information rather because of what we're experiencing in our society around us that in itself should tell you be careful you remember what happened to Balaam in the Book of Numbers King Balak wanted to hire him out to curse Israel he was a pagan prophet and he sends word I'll give you all this silver and gold come and curse Israel for me and Balaam says I have to ask God and see what he says so God appears to him and says don't go don't curse them because they're blessed that would be a three-fold no right don't go don't curse them they're blessed he says I can't do it sends them back the king is upset he sends the messengers back and says I'll give you up to the half of my kingdom come and curse Israel Balaam says I can only do what God tells me to do I'll ask again fatal error if something's unclear in Scripture and there are many verses we have to study and evaluate you ask you see if you're not clear about what the Lord is saying you ask you seek but if God speaks plainly lotia off in Hebrew do not commit adultery and now you're attracted to someone you're not married to you don't go and ask God again Lord can I get a second opinion on this cuz she's really pretty since the Word of God itself is not ambiguous on this it is the social pressure and the fact that that we know people very nice people and people who seem to be very spiritual off people say they love God who identify as gay and lesbian how do we sort that out let's understand the testimony of Scripture remains plain the fact that many books are being written on this doesn't mean the Bible is not clear the fact that there's been a spate of atheist writings and in the last decade plus doesn't mean that God's existence is uncertain first thing we need to understand is this the Bible is a heterosexual book what do I mean by that I don't mean that God's Word does not relate to every human being on the planet it does I don't mean that Jesus did not die on the cross for every human being he did he shed the same blood for every one of us regardless of our background regardless of our weakness of our strength he died for all of us 100% what I mean is from beginning to end the Bible speaks to heterosexual relationships and heterosexual marriage as the only thing that he has ordained you see people often say if this is such a big issue out of the tens of thousands of verses and words in the Bible why are there only a handful that deal with homosexuality they've got it completely opposite the entire Bible is presupposing one way one order one method of relationships and only here and there does it need to speak against the others I'll give an example that I got from my friend Larry Tomczak you may have heard Larry's name recently because he had written a column an article and in the midst of it he made passing reference to Ellen DeGeneres and gay activism and somehow it came to her attention so she talked about it on national TV talked about Larry took like four plus minutes and then Anderson Cooper heard about that then he went after her after Larry as well and then I wrote a column addressing some of Anderson's objections in a friendly way it was called setting Anderson Cooper straight but it was it was a it was done tongue-in-cheek the same way that he did his but Larry gave a great illustration let's say that I write a cooking book it's a cookbook of healthy recipes great recipes sweet tasting desserts but no sugar is ever used and at the beginning of the book I explained I don't believe in using refined sugar in sugar products I find them to be dangerous and unhealthy and because of that you will not find a single recipe with sugar anywhere whatsoever in this entire book and you read through the rest of the book and the word sugar doesn't occur once so you check on your eBook and you say the word sugar only occurs five times in this recipe book obviously it's not important to the author know the exact opposite because it's such an important issue the entire book contains no sugar in the recipes that's how you have to understand the Bible which means that if you're two men you're two women and you say we love each other we love the Lord the Bible is not speaking to you the way it's speaking to heterosexual couples I'll explain we start in Genesis chapter one at creation in verses 26 and 27 God creates Adam mankind humankind in his own image Sekar when the Kavala are male and female he created them and then he says be fruitful and multiply so the only ones in his creation that can fulfill that be fruitful and multiply those are heterosexuals in terms of here's the creation put us alone on an island and we will multiply now of course homosexual theologians would say yeah yeah but it's not detracting for you they're enough people multiplying we're not hurting anything by not being able to have kids of our own I'm not sure about hurting anything I'm trying my God's design now we get to the second chapter and it focuses in on Adam Adam it focuses in on him and and and God says it's not good that he should be alone right then what does it say he needs a companion so he won't be lonely it doesn't say that he needs a suitable helper it's not just God not wanting Adam to be lonely it's that Adam needed a helper to fulfill his mission a suitable helper was that because the garden was so big and it was too big for Adam to care for so he needed a helper know it so that he could be fruitful and multiply and that he would have a fit companion so what happens God takes out of his side or out of a rib forms the woman she's called a sha woman because she's taken out of the man ish and then the two come together and become one and Adam says in Genesis 2:24 therefore a man will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and the two become one you know it's just like two plugs there's the male and the female and they're suited and together there's a certain connection that is made so the male is made for the female and the female is made for the male natural law biological design tells you what God designed us for here if I try to flip the page with my elbow it doesn't work well elbow wasn't made for that if I say hey I can't see you let me look well I can't look through the ear it wasn't made for that our bodies were made in a very strategic specific way and it's clear that the male was designed for the female and vice versa that only we can be fruitful and multiply and that it is the fact that we are same but different that we come together physically emotionally spiritually and the two become one all of you who've parented it's not just a difference of some people have different perspectives but men and women are built and wired differently it's by God's design now you start there in Genesis 2 and then the rest of the Bible it always only presupposes heterosexual relationships just like the cookbook without sugar only healthy recipes only heterosexual relationships every law about marriage every law about parenting every parable every illustration it is all heterosexual in nature I'm not being nasty to someone who says they're gay or lesbian by saying this but look when you go to Ephesians 5 husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and then the responsibilities of the wives to the husbands if you're reading that as a gay couple who's the husband who's the wife I don't say that tamaak I'm saying it's not written for that honor your father and mother okay you're raised by two men or by two women who's the father who's the mother it's it's in other words it's not written with those in mind let's go further even the the negative types of relationships even the ones that are not ideal like polygamy which which was acceptable and even legal in Old Testament times but was not God's ideal from creation even that is always heterosexual every relationship that's spoken of heterosexual nature there is not a single positive reference to a homosexual relationship anywhere in the Bible every relationship that God has ordained or blessed is heterosexual and every reference to homosexual practice is negative in the strongest possible terms that's not ambiguous that's from beginning to end of Scripture someone might say yeah but you're forgetting something very major but the Bible has been misused for centuries the Bible was misused to sanction slavery and segregation and the oppression of women that's true it was people say it's also being misused to sanction anti-homosexual prejudice now if you're quoting scripture to cover a patriot in your heart your misuse the Bible if you're quoting scripture to cover up bad attitudes in your own life you're misusing the Bible but here's where people are very wrong about this particular application here yes the Bible was misused to sanction the African slave trade and all of its horrors the fact is it was Christians using the scripture William Wilberforce and others here in America who use the scripture and use the principles of the scripture to overthrow and end the slave trade in the UK and in America also slavery within scripture was of an entirely different order than the the murderous and barbarous African slave trade they don't have time to get into that if you've ever read through the laws of it and the customs involving it you're talking about two completely different animals and more importantly the Bible is a book of liberation the Israelites are liberated slaves Jesus comes into the world to set the captives free the Bible says in Jesus there's no slave or free it's a book of liberation and within the Bible it doesn't speak in praise of slavery this was just something in the ancient social system being like an indentured servant and paying off debt that's for the most part white existed as for using the Bible to sanction segregation I remind you there - it was Christian leaders coming out of churches who led the way in the anti segregation movement and there's not a single syllable in ba in the Bible supporting segregation there is a call to separate ourselves to live holy lives and not to be like the world a God forbid there's not a single verse anywhere in the Bible that that merits segregation and one race being superior to the other and therefore separate from them as for using the Bible to oppress women the fact is where the gospel goes and culture women are liberated raised up in the ancient world one of the great effects of the gospel going out was now there were requirements on men to be holy and not just women there are requirements on men to be faithful to their wise and not is wise to be faithful to the husband but not only so within the Bible you have great leaders like Deborah you have the mother of Jesus and other women playing esteem roles in the New Testament you have a whole section a lengthy section in Proverbs 31 praising a godly wife so to use the Bible to oppress women as a misuse of the Bible to the contrary to use the Bible to say that God ordained marriage to be the union of a man and a woman to use the Bible to say that homosexual practice is sinful to use the Bible to say that God did not design a man to be with another man or a woman to be with another woman that is not to misuse the Bible that is to properly use the Bible and if we do it in the love of God with tears reaching out to all and offering them new life in Jesus then we were rightly using the Word of God amen generally speaking when one of these conversations comes up about the Bible in homosexual practice the Christians will immediately quote Leviticus 18:22 or maybe Leviticus 20:13 and they think that settles it that's everything that's the answer after all of it across 18:22 says it's the abomination in Hebrew toivo something detestable for man to lie with a man the way a man lies with a woman and the Leviticus chapter 20 verse 13 it even carries the death penalty under ancient Israelite law and for those who are only listening with with half an ear which is not virtually everyone here but just in case someone's not listening I am not advocating the death penalty for homosexual practice it was under Israelite law along with adultery along with violation of the Sabbath and a number of other things but I'm simply quoting what scripture said with regard to that in terms of how harshly it was penalized well we'll quote that verse and then generally speaking someone will come back with the answer well do you eat shellfish I know I've never been a shellfish eater and now is my mega healthy diet I don't and eat wonton soup because that would have pork in it but out of the enemy hardly but most of us yeah shellfish or you know pepperoni pizza or whatever so the question would be okay how can you quote one verse in Leviticus and ignore the others Leviticus 11 has all these food laws that's many verses Deuteronomy 14 repeats it how can you ignore those and you break all kinds of laws in Leviticus you're just being a hypocrite well there's a simple answer for that unfortunately many Christians don't know the simple answer and they don't have an answer when someone confronts them with that so what's the answer here's the short answer God gave certain laws to Israel to keep them separate from the nations like dietary laws and things like that he gave other laws to Israel based on universal moral principles like don't murder okay well how can you distinguish them that's the big question how can you distinguish what God gave to Israel to keep Israel separate from the nations how can you sting which that from a universal moral principle like don't murder well two ways one does God speak this to all nations does God speak this to everybody for example murder is prohibited right after the flood in Genesis 9:6 whoever sheds man's blood by man shall his blood be shed so murder is prohibited right from the outset and then it's repeated through the rest of the Bible it's repeated in the prophets it's repeated in Psalms and proverbs it's repeated in the New Testament it's for everybody the dietary laws were given Israel they weren't for everybody did God ever judge pagan nations for murder and cruelty sure did God ever judge pagan nations for eating pork and shellfish no because that was only for Israel what about Leviticus 18 Leviticus 18 which deals with various sexual sins including incest and bestiality Leviticus 18 is based on Universal moral principles these things are wrong for all people how do I know it the text says so and it's repeated in the New Testament for all people so it's not ambiguous so let's take a look in Leviticus chapter 18 only God knows people's hearts so I can't be dogmatic about this but I can tell you what folks have told me that sought to live the Colgate Christian life by me by which I mean practicing homosexuality and following Jesus at the same time they've confirmed this so if someone tells me it's not true in their own lives that's between them and God but my perspective would be this the verses that speak against homosexual practice are so strong and so clear that if I was seeking to live that way if that was who I was and I was same-sex attracted and I was in a relationship with someone and the whole of the Bible is speaking to heterosexuals about heterosexual relationships and what it does mention homosexual practice it mentions it very negatively that would be troubling to me and I would have to really reinforce that I'd have to reconvince myself I'd have to have a lot of support and security around me to keep objections out because those objections would mess with me one man who came out of homosexuality to find liberty in Jesus was asked the question can you practice homosexuality and follow Jesus at the same time his answer was not for long again that was his experience it makes sense to me so Leviticus 18:22 do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman that is detestable well gay activists would say but look at the verse before that's sort about idolatry do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to molla for you must not profane the name of your God I am the Lord and they say this was homosexual practice in conjunction with idolatry well the next verse do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourselves with it does that mean it's only wrong to have sexual relations with an animal in the context of idolatry and is it suggestive that the two are in consecutive verses as things that are very wrong and contrary to what God intended but now look at the end verse 24 do not defile yourselves in any of these ways because this is how the nations that I'm going to drive out before you became defiled even the land was defiled so I punished it for its sin and the land vomited out its inhabitants but you must keep my decrees in my laws the native born in the aliens living among you not must not do any of these detestable things for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you and the land became defiled and if you defile the land it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you God judged the Canaanites for these sins in other words this is a universal moral prohibition if it was wrong for the Canaanites it's wrong for everybody if God judged pagan idol worshipers for this he will judge anyone especially within the body for this some have said yeah but the Hebrew word TOI Ava abomination just means ritual defilement it does not mean moral defilement well it can be used either or depending on the context but God did not destroy the pagan nations based on ritual defilement and he did not give the death penalty for ritual defilement therefore this was a very serious issue in God's sight somehow something that had a profound impact on society or was profoundly wrong in his sight when you see the effects of gay activism on society and you see how the attack on marriage and the desire to transform marriage makes it basically meaningless right right now in England by law the word husband can be used for a woman and the word wife can be used for a man based on a bill going forward in California if on a birth certificate there are two lesbians on a birth certificate one could be designated the mother the other the Father vice-versa for men to have male wives and female husbands and male mothers and female fathers everything becomes meaningless in terms of words and terminology this is what happens once you play with the foundations this is what happens once you try to redefine the meaning of fundamental things like marriage and I've also asked gay theologians if you say Leviticus 18 does not apply to us today then where is the prohibition for incest on what biblical basis do we say that incest is forbidden this may shock you but I've documented in recent years the celebration of incest in the media I'm not seeing the shows or the movies but I read about them get the transcripts and document this I was contacted a few months ago by a young lady she said we have a new website it's debate out or out debate something like that it's for young people we're going to be talking about the cutting edge controversial issues and and we'd like you to participate in a debate the way it works is we'll ask you a series of questions you give us your answers and then we publish your answers along with the answers of others and let people see the different perspectives I said sure thing she said well the hot topic she said as you know one of the big hot topics is consensual adult incest hot topic among young people why should it be illegal for two grown family members father and daughter two brothers two sisters daughter and father mother whatever why should that be illegal for them to have a consensual loving relationship I said I'm quite aware that it's a debate because I've been tracking these things well I did the debate submitted the questions they contacted four other people another professor others out of the five I was the only one who said it should be illegal one of my points was I quoted Chesterton don't ever take a fence down until you know why it's been put up you see once you begin to yield in one area of redefining marriage and redefining relationships how can you say no to the others look the media's been celebrating homosexuality long enough you know willing grace is like old now Queer Eye for the straight guy is old now what's what's the media been celebrating in recent years have you noticed again I don't watch the shows but I read about them big love sister was the most one my five wives went for three wives two four wives two five live polygamy why is there a surprise if you want quote marriage equality for all love is love our president for whom we pray two years ago when the Supreme Court overturned the Defense of Marriage Act he tweeted out love Islam well then will I be discriminatory about any relationships of any kind once you get away from the foundations you quickly go in this direction there is an active battle against gender distinctions there is a bill being submitted in Charlotte North Carolina where I presently live that is arguing that for anti-discrimination you cannot discriminate based on gender or gender identity or perceived gender identity so they want to add gender identity and perceived gender identity meaning that if I identified as a woman that I believed I was a woman or perceived myself even on a given day as a woman that I should be able to use the ladies bathroom any public facility ladies locker room it's already law in different states for children in schools it's law in California that if a child identifies a boy identifies as a girl at six years old he can use the girls bathroom if it bothers the other girls that's their problem because you can't discriminate if he's 17 years old and and identifies as a girl and wants to play on the girls softball team he can and use the girls locker room you said that'll never happen it's already happened already happened last year we had a student in our ministry school who was teaching at a local nursery so she would work with the kids for years old preschool and she was not allowed to call them boys and girls because that would be making a gender distinction she had to call them friends she was required to read books like heather has two mommies and she wouldn't she ultimately had to leave the job and that's some years old that report we don't mess with foundations like this without major major implications and because of the instant nature of our generation and you get everything instantly and I love I mean I published something I write something one night it's published the next morning I'm a more urgent I posted the same night I get a thought the middle of a service tweeted out and now it's getting tweeted all over the place unfortunately we often lose our long-term vision because of that and a lot of young people think like this Billy's a really nice boy he gets picked on all the time why shouldn't Billy be able to marry Bobby and we don't look at the larger issues of society and family and marriage and what God intended and the fact that when we say two men can raise kids or two women can raise kids as devoted and loving as they may be they may be the most devoted parents you'll ever meet but they are guaranteeing that that kid is deprived of either a mom or dad by choice for life and that cannot be fair or in the best interest of a child while the objection is raised if this is such a big deal how come Jesus never addressed it I was on Piers Morgan a little over a year ago and got asked that very question and he challenged me dr. Brown can you tell me one place give me one verse where Jesus said anything about gay or being gay so I said alright I'll give you three now let me clarify first the argument from silence is a dangerous argument where did Jesus specifically address wife-beating maybe it's not a big issue because he didn't specifically address it maybe Jesus believed in alien invasions if it's such a big deal why didn't he say there's no such thing as aliens so the argument from Silence is a little dangerous but at least three different ways Jesus did address it and let's also remember from all the literature that we have from all the information we have there was no ambiguity about what Jews believed at that time there was no sexual revolution taking place okay homosexual practice was spoken against in very very strong terms even more strongly than within Scripture and some of the ancient Jewish literature and there are even some references that may have in Jesus day that says that one of the worst sins that the pagans ever committed was having men marry men and women married women in ancient Jewish literature and it may have been literature that Jesus knew about in his day we know it came it was written shortly after it may have existed in his day probably did so there is no question there was no ambiguity about it but here the three different ways that he addresses it first in Matthew chapter 5 he says he doesn't come to abolish the law of the prophets but to fulfill I understand the church here you've had a major series going through the Sermon on the Mount so what does he do he takes the moral requirements of the scripture to a higher level you've heard it said don't commit adultery I'm telling you don't listen in your heart you've heard and said don't murder I'm telling you don't hate so the moral requirements of the scripture he takes to a higher level so therefore homosexual practice the prohibition about that he's not abolishing that he's going to take that to a deeper level secondly in Matthew 15 he explains that it's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you but what comes out of your heart that defiles you and he lists various sins including sexual immorality 'he's plural and adultery the word we have in greek for sexual immorality is pornea from once we get the word pornography so he's talking about adultery so that sins that she commits while married sexual sins and then sexual immorality x' which is all other sexual acts outside of marriage so he's talking about guys sleeping with his girlfriend he's talking about somebody raping another person he said about two men having sex two women having sex all sexual relations outside of marriage as God ordained marriage so that's the second place he addresses it and again to a first century Jewish audience he talks about sexual immorality in the plural of course homosexual practice is in there that's one of the most heinous the top of the list in the ancient Jewish thought third and Matthew 19 he's asked about divorce and in his answer he says this is what God intended from the beginning that a man leaves his father and mother in to his wife and the two become one flesh so there he tells you the meaning of marriage as God intended a man joined to a woman a woman joined to a man for life there's also an important verse at the end of John chapter 2 and it tells us that he didn't put his trust in man John 2:24 25 he didn't put his trust as man because he knew what was in that he knew what was in human hearts so he didn't need anyone to tell him about man I debated a gay activist and his basic point was that the biblical authors knew about sexual immorality among homosexuals they knew about pederasty about man-boy relationships they knew about homosexual relationships in the context of temple worship and idolatry but they didn't really know about loving committed monogamous same-sex relationships but one argument against that is that there may well have been Jewish texts that talked about pagans men marrying men and women marrying women in ancient days and how God judged that secondly in the ancient greco-roman world there are definitely examples of people in long-term committed same-sex relationships and the ancient literature points to that so that's not true anyway but more importantly Jesus knows what's inside people Jesus can look into the hearts and minds of people when he was on the earth he would answer what people are thinking so we would now have to believe that Jesus who saw into the heart of every human being somehow didn't understand homosexuality the way we understand it today he didn't hear the heart cry and the desperation of some saying look this is Who I am help me it's actually an attack on who Jesus is I read one response from a woman who claims to be a born-again Christian and fights for gay activist causes and she said that's right Jesus didn't know in other words I would rather deny who Jesus is and twist Scripture than deny what I feel very very some say look Jesus reached out to people where they were he hung out with the prostitutes with the corrupt tax collectors he hung out with people like that we ought to do the same oh absolutely we ought to reach out to sinners but Jesus did not practice affirmation 'el inclusion in other words he didn't reach out to people in their sin and say go for it hey ladies let me give you a few tips to make some more money as prostitutes hey guys let me show you get a lot more money extorted from people if you if you follow these techniques as a tax collector no no he met people where they were and he changed them he met me right where I was as a sinful rebel and pouring out his love on me and it was a revelation of his love I was deeply convicted about my badness when I got a revelation of His goodness I was instantly set free and said I never put a needle in my arm again it was free from that night on the power of the gospel I am glad that he didn't affirm me in my sin he does not practice affirmation 'el inclusion but transformational inclusion meets us where we are in his love and says follow me one pastor in England same-sex attracted but living a holy life all of us struggle with one issue another all of us have flaws that are fundamental to the core of our be that need redemption all of us grow through all of our lives in Jesus here's a man who struggles with same-sex attraction it's not his identity it's not who he is you may say I'm a gay Christian but I'm celibate god bless you we're here to stand with you and to help you live a holy life and to be the friends that you need and the companions that you need in the prayer wars that you need we're here for you but I'd encourage you not to use that terminology because it's giving yourself an identity it's not how God sees you God sees you as his child as his son as his daughter and we all have issues we struggle with we all have things that we've had to overcome we all have things that are that are not pleasing in God's sight that are fundamental to us that need redemption in renewal this pastor said that people when they find out his background they say it must be so hard for you he said no Jesus requires everything from all of us and to all of us he says deny yourself and take up the cross see our big problem in America is we've come from a wrong gospel foundation we start in America with this this is who I am this is how I feel and God is here to please me the biblical message is this is who God is this is how God feels and we are here to please him fundamental difference in approach this pastor also said and Jesus is enough for all of us I have friends who went from homosexuality to heterosexuality they're happily married and they're free I have others that had a major change and their desires they're married they can still be tempted and struggle but they're happily married they live holy lives and they say no to those temptations and I know others who've not seen a change in their desires but they say no to them and they're all blessed and they all say following Jesus is wonderful and my life is full all right what about what about Paul and we'll end here Romans 1 seems to be the most explicit statement in the entire Bible against homosexual practice and it speaks about God's judgment on mankind his wrath on mankind and how we have sinned against him and then he gave us over to our idolatry and into sexual immorality and then perversions of sexual immorality and then all kinds of other sins how do we get away from that if we're if we're gay theologians that that the women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women were inflamed with lust for one another how do they get away from that what they say is this first it's in the context of idol worship and promiscuity and our relationship is committed monogamous and we love the Lord well the problem is Paul says it's unnatural it's contrary to nature and and the whole idle context is in the history of mankind our rejection our sin and how he gives us over to these other sins you say none of them when Paul said unnatural you're getting him wrong this is what he really meant it's what he really meant he meant this if I'm a heterosexual man it is unnatural for me to have homosexual desires when I got so inflamed with heterosexual lust God judged me he then turned me over to do what is contrary to nature for me that's homosexual relations and that's what he's talking about he's talking about heterosexual men engaging in homosexual practice that is contrary to nature that's unnatural the problem with this is that that is absolutely not how Paul is using contrary to nature it's also interesting that for centuries and centuries before people never came up with this interpretation until after the sexual revolution and the gay activist movement that makes it suspect right there but in Romans 1 Paul doesn't talk about men and women in Greek he talks about males and females want because he's going back to Genesis one male and female he created them and when he talks about contrary to nature he's talking about natural created order in Genesis one the way God created us and there are several words that he uses in Romans 1 that comes straight out of Genesis 1 word after word actually to the point he's saying this is contrary to God's created order look in the mirror it's contrary to what he created an ordained contrary to nature and therefore it is a serious perversion of what God established and that's why they're even gay and lesbian scholars who say no doubt about it Paul condemned homosexual practice in 1st Corinthians 6 9 and 10 he gives a list of different sins and says whoever practices this will not inherit the kingdom and there are two words that are used there for homosexual practice side by side there's no question they speak of those who practice homosexual not just abusive man-boy relationships not just prostitution every major dictionary that has been compiled even by scholars who barely believe the Bible they agree especially on one key word that it speaks against homosexual practice the good news is verse 11 Paul says that's what some of you were the good news is no matter who we are no matter what we've done no matter where we've fallen short no matter what sins we've committed the blood of Jesus has been shed and God will receive you just as you are and give you a brand new life so that you can live the rest of your life the way he intended what we need to do is encourage this we need to encourage holiness more than heterosexuality by which I mean this if you're same-sex attracted the goal is not for you to convince yourself that you like the opposite sex you know you're a guy find the prettiest girl in the church who's single and date her and that will cure you of your homosexuality it was that easy everybody would be quote cured you know that can be very frustrating that that can show a lack of understanding in fact when you say well I love the sinner I hate the sin a gay person here as you say you hate me because they say that's who I am what we need to do is encourage people to live a holy life to encourage people by the power of the Holy Spirit to lead a holy life and out of that holy life as they lead a holy a new life God will work in every area of their lives and many will even begin to find resolution of their attractions and desires and changes in that regard as well the good news is for every single human being there's new life in Jesus there's forgiveness of sins the bad news is for the flesh everybody has to repent everybody has to say God save me to the core of my being but that's the most wonderful thing that could ever happen now we've covered a good amount of ground and obviously could only go so deep the book that I've written that's the most relevant I really encourage you get a copy for yourself it's also written for those struggling with same-sex attraction or those questioning what we're saying can you be gain Christian it will break your heart as you read it because I will take you in to the lives of those who identify as gay Christians you'll hear their arguments you'll hear their hearts and we lay out the scriptures every scriptural truth we reference we get into but an even greater depth far greater in this book it's readable it's clear a book that I spent almost six years working on on and off talks about what's happening in society gay activism the word that God spoke to me over 10 years ago was reach out and resist reaching out to the people with compassion resist the agenda with courage no major publisher would touch this book I've had three publishers apologized to me since it's called a queer thing happened to America it's almost 700 pages 1,500 endnotes it is critically important reading you said it's a lot to read pull out any chapter that interests you pull out the chapter on the media on the schools on the court cases it is massively relevant and then later this year in the summer we should have a book out called outlasting the gay revolution where we will infuse you with hope and courage and eight long term principles for positive cultural change so that will be out later so the books are there I also have some DVD lectures a debate with a gay activist about these things on the book table so take advantage of the resources there we've got others that will tie them with the messages tomorrow and then connect with me online we are super active in social media and other ways and I strongly encourage you to collect us online my facebook page is ask dr. Brown ASX dr brown through the day and night edifying graphics quotes post links to articles everything there day and night and to connect all the different ways my website ask dr. Brown org ASX dr brown org and you can connect with us there email Facebook Twitter YouTube alright you can sign up there and then like I said thousands of hours of free resources and then lastly at the book table you'll see these envelopes I want to be a monthly torchbearer we're stretched out we're involved in Jewish evangelist and day and night cultural issues day and night raising up missionaries to send out to the world you read about what's happening with sis in the Middle East right now we have grads serving right in those very areas I mean right in the thick of it one of our grads was killed by Islamic terrorists three years ago I mean that that's where our folks are serving we're raising them up sending them out day and night so if you can if you can become a monthly torch bearer grab one of these envelopes fill it out and join our support team

Channel: Grace Church St. Louis

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Keywords: gay, christian, grace church st louis, st, saint, louis, grace, michael brown, dr, church, Can You Be Gay And Christian?: Responding With Love And Truth To Questions About Homosexuality, Michael L. Brown (Author), Christianity (Religion), marriage

Id: haK471jirCU

Length: 56min 21sec (3381 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 23 2015