Buying Dynon Certified: What You Need to Know

hello good afternoon everyone welcome welcome welcome i'm going to give the stream the zoom meeting a moment here to stabilize and give people that are watching on facebook live the opportunity to join up and get started in just a minute thanks for joining on a tuesday at the end i'm curious to if you've been to some of our other events whether tuesday works friday works we decided not to go friday on the holiday weekend i think probably everybody appreciates that all right everything live is uh working jeff everything live everything is going well all right we will get started so welcome everybody to our i guess a virtual booth visit this one is buying dynon certified what you need to know and what we really wanted to do is uh speak specifically to those of you that are considering or will be considering in the future a dynon certified panel featuring skyview hdx uh you'll have probably a lot of questions about what airplanes it's applicable to what airplanes it's coming to where you can use the autopilot where where you can not yeah yet uh pricing configuration how to install it we're gonna go through all of that so um how this works so if you're in the zoom meeting which it looks like there's a 35 or four of you here uh you're all muted uh we can see you can see us we will practically stop for questions uh you can raise your hand if you have a question that you have queued up you can also type it into the chat although it's hard for us to get to all of them because there are a few of us that are hosting and then monitoring the facebook chat as well so the easiest way to ask a question is with voice when we when we get to you uh to raise your hand by the way if you're on a computer it's under the participants button and then there's a hand phrase if you're on an ipad or an iphone i think that's usually the three dots menu there's a little raised hand button and then we'll ask you to unmute yourself if you're in zoom and then uh you will get a little button that says hey you want uh they want to unmute you and i think we're all probably getting pros at this these days um let's see we will stop periodically for questions so like if we're talking about you know we're going to start out talking about what airplanes we're going to get the pricing so if you have a question about a topic we haven't covered at all yet we're probably going to get there so hold those questions um so for intros so i'm michael schofield i'm our marketing director co-hosting with me today is kyle george he's one of my colleagues from sales when you do get to the point where you're getting ready to configure an order or ready to buy you're likely to talk to him or josh or dan josh is lurking helping out with some of the question answering today on the on the facebook side and then also with me is one of my marketing colleagues jeff he's kind of playing cameraman director uh all of most of the things that we're going to talk about today are actually all of the things uh and if not we're doing a bad job everything's on the website i'll be screen sharing and showing you some of the brochures and some of the literature that that is useful and just kind of showing you the ropes there yes with that let's just kind of jump right into it uh kyle if if somebody is thinking about a dynon skyview certified system what airplanes can it go in well we do have an approved model list and we've actually just recently made that a little bit more easy to search on our website which i'm sure mike will pull up and share with you here um as a general rule our stc applies to the majority of single engine piston-powered uh ga aircraft that are under six thousand pounds gross and with six seats or fewer we also do not have any pressurized or composite constructed aircraft currently on the aml those are things that we plan to get to at some point in the future so if you're if your aircraft checks all of those boxes you are more than likely on our list there are a few other exceptions but by and large you can see the majority of the aircraft which is roughly 600 different models uh listed out right here on our website and certainly feel free to message us at sales anytime if uh you're not sure and you want us to give you an official answer we can look for it yeah and as yeah kyle said uh it's almost every airplane not everyone almost every airplane is under six thousand pounds six or less people though the one that uh i think i hear the most about i don't know about you kyle is the the air coop that's missing and i'm not sure why it's missing and uh we have like on our list to add some of these airplanes that should be on there by you know by category in class but that didn't quite make the list the air coop's the one exception i know i've i've been asked about before i'm not aware of other access exceptions but i'm sure there's one or two out there lurking but all of the major airplanes you know or the the most popular like almost every piper you know single here's like the the list of i think on our on our list of to-do's actually break this out to have it a little bit more by common name model you know if you have a cherokee for example it's on here but you gotta go find you know 28 and then your sub your sub uh sub uh type so then from there the next question is well you know what can uh what can i put in uh you know my airplane the answer for all of these is everything we sell and then autopilot there's uh the autopilot approval is kind of in addition to the everything but autopilot and and kyle what airplanes do we currently have for the autopilot approved for so right now we have most of your late model 172s that's anything from model foxtrot on the model sierra um that's i believe 1965 up to current uh correct me if i'm wrong on the year but i believe that's correct then for the bonanzas right now uh majority is the v tails so your papa sierra victor 35 models and then your v35a and v35b are all currently improved with autopilot and uh hopefully in the later this year still uh we'll be approving the majority of the remainder of the bonanza family uh with a number of model 35s and 36s and some other models as well i guess we should talk about so let's see if we showed it on this list uh let's what's coming up next as well so yeah as uh kyle was saying it's a cessna's foxtrot through sierra this covers the airplanes that are still manufactured today although i guess the the current ones the current current ones are of course all glass panels so you're not likely to take out that to put in ours and then the bonanzas v35b currently and so where i'm looking right now on the website is under just the aircraft models link and you know has the nearly 600 list if i click the c approved models link that's where we get this uh this big giant list and then here are the the the models with autopilot with the bonanza uh you know this encompasses quite a few kind of different models and there are some we can get even more specific with the with the autopilot applicability down to the serial number because there are some exceptions i guess due to some variance in the fleet so uh if you are going to go autopilot in a uh you'll want to cross-check and our our team will help you cross-check the uh whether it's one of the models the serial number that it's applicable to um so upcoming airplanes so this is so we have admittedly been want to talk about uh the autopilot approvals uh that are they're coming up sure so uh one thing the faa does require us to do is to do our stc applications one at a time we can't have multiple applications open at once and that means there does have to be an order that the things go in so at the front of the train right now is the pa-34 seneca and in terms of a schedule for that as as close as we can say confidently is that we're at the point where we're working out the logistics of getting the test flight operations going again um the faa offices have been closed for test flying for covid prevention and they're at a point now where they're looking at trying to get to the mechanics of getting things scheduled so we can keep moving forward um beyond that the a36 bonanza which is likely to include a bunch of the early model 35s as well is going to be coming in the number two position so once the seneca is wrapped up that process will get started and shortly thereafter we expect the 182 uh to be going through the same process uh the other aircraft we have in our hangar right now is a mooney m20 and beyond that we're uh undecided as to what the specific next models will be following those yeah just to piggyback on uh what kyle said in terms of the you know so when when we approve the you know the nearly 600 models uh the piston singles you can make an argument and we did make an argument that these airplanes are substantially the same right they all have very similar systems the complexity uh the way they're flown the risk profile the airplane the weight the people on board all that stuff so you can and you know the panels are all roughly the same size and so you can make an argument that like basically these airplanes are the same and so you ask for uh for an stc for an aml or approved model list and that was our list with autopilot there are actual physical configurat uh considerations uh you know the the brackets have to be engineered you have to make sure that the brackets you engineer work on the airplanes that you believe that they're going to uh you know whether it's uh the bonanza you know 35 or 36 a36 and you have to you know engineer for the specific models and then uh verify that and you really can't do that with uh you know just adjust like a paperwork engineering justification there's there's actually engineering goes into the big amls but there's our parts that are getting bolted into the airplane with the autopilot installed and so uh you have to engineer that you have to prove it it culminates with you know uh with with product engineering documents as flying uh to verify all of the things that you were going to do and the performance you expect out of the autopilot and all that that you're you're getting that and also actual performance of the autopilot itself it's not just about it is about safety but a lot of it is you know but there's a performance component as well that actually you know flies the airplane as as you'd expect it to you know uh kyle mentioned that we so here's the we've gone through a couple of different variations of how we communicate this because we've admittedly been wrong a few times uh in terms of uh you know our cadences and what are uh what our paces and so yeah with the piper seneca and the beachcrafts uh the a36 expansion on autopilot we have here uh you know kind of a wishy-washy uh uh progress bar and also it says first half of 2020 this is the this today is the first half of 2020 the end of it so we're going to miss that by a little bit but not by much on the seneca and as kyle also mentioned there is this is a serialized thing to some degree in other words uh you know we have people that are working on the flight test the engineering so there is kind of a a non-assembly line but there is a sequence here so the seneca will go real soon and the banana is actually still real soon they're really close to each other and so we expect those you know don't want to like give days because we don't actually know it given t around flight testing and some of the covert related stuff but it's like it's it's weeks not many months let's just put it that way for for those airplanes the 182 and and so we'll have to update the website obviously tomorrow or this time and the 182 and m20 are still scheduled for this year and i don't have any further detail on that but we still believe that that's that's possible for both of those um let's see do you want to take a pause here and see if there are any questions mike before we move into installation methods kind of the next phase of the process that's a great idea so if anybody has any questions uh here in the zoom uh go ahead and rate you know kind of about airplanes is it for my airplane what's coming next what do you expect for airplane x kind of in that zone if you have questions about that you can go ahead and raise your hand and then we will uh ask uh or elect yourself so i see uh rent i'm gonna click your unmute button i think i did you should be able to [Music] so i wanted to get one for the e35 bonanza and am i allowed to buy all of the parts except something until the autopilot is released so the the only real component of the autopilot that we can't sell to you yet is the actual servos and control head for it the the rest of the system in terms of the efus uh necessary modules adsb engine monitoring all of that's already available it can be installed and we can't supply you with all say again the piece that goes on my panel all that stuff can go in there uh the everything the autopilot control panel the piece with the buttons on it not until the servos are as proved as well but we do have a blank cover that matches the finish of the rest of our modules so you can have that cut and covered over temporarily we do also allow for pre-wire of the servos uh the wiring harnesses can be run under the floor wherever excuse me along with a lot of the other components from the outset so that when you're ready to add the autopilot when it's approved it is almost literally attached brackets attach servo plug it in tune it and you're done good yeah so the autopilot sub system or the approval encompasses the servos uh that control panel the control panel and then the brackets that are uh needed to install them so that's those are sort of the hard parts that you can't put in until the autopilot is approved for your model all right thanks for that uh let's see we've got uh paul h i'm going to press your unused button and i think you need to hit something and then yep you're good okay can you hear me yep you can great first of all thanks a lot you guys for doing this this is super informative for all of us so i really appreciate it um i i have a kind of a two-part question the first part is i just want to clarify before i end up sending something back um that maybe i don't need to um you said that everything is certified except for your autopilot that you sell but i want some clarification on that around uh angle of attack pedo tube i was told today by my mechanic that it wasn't couldn't be legally installed on my airplane because it wasn't uh certified so if you could maybe clarify certain then i have a follow-up question sure so uh it it can be legally done though it is at the moment not the cleanest of deliveries of that feature and that's why it's not something that we advertise largely so the probe itself and the feature of angle of attack are both approved under the stc what is not approved right now is the generic menu or the generic bracket that we manufacture to suspend that probe below your wing it's designed for an rv10 or something similar but is commonly used in the experimental world generically we also don't have a pre-manufactured plumbing kit that routes the pressure lines and the fittings and everything like that so part of that stems from just being in a race to get the system in general approved in time for the 2020 adsb mandate so that people can install the system at large and to that end you know two fewer pieces that you have to sdc at pma makes the process go faster so an aoa probe is considered a minor alteration which means the installer has a lot of flexibility on either they can fabricate their own mount for it uh they can buy a for a cessna example you would buy from textron a an oem replacement pito mount bracket the the shape and dimension of the pedopro or the aoa pro that we sell is conforms to an an standard i believe it's 5812 or 8512 or something like that which fits your standard cessna pedo probe mount so you can buy an stc approved bracket or you know just a type certificated approved bracket you can manufacture your own uh and then in terms of sourcing the tube materials you have a ton of flexibility so it's a little bit more work and knowledge on the installer's side and uh it's not as completely packaged of a feature so it can be there but a little bit more work has to be done than than the rest of the system okay well that's uh that's a little bit encouraging so the so one other kind of uh just clarification there uh does the does the heated keto have any uh difference as well the so the only probe that's approved and certified is the unheated aoa bracket because there there are a lot of and i don't know the specific regulations but there are a lot of advisory circulars and and things to do with the specifics of factory original pedo and static plumbing and it is feasibly impractical for us to uh to pursue a general-purpose keto probe replacement that is going to be broad you know approved for for most certified airplanes so to that end the original pito heated or unheated remains in place and is used our probe is strictly for aoa purposes okay all right thank you and then this is the last question um it comes around what you're probably going to get lots of questions about which is the autofile because we're all eager to get that feature um so i'm just wondering uh is there any chance that for the cessna 182 whatever models that you you get i'm hoping it will get all the system 182's since that wing is essential you could swap a 182 wing and a 180 wing [Music] um his battery chance at the 180 will fall that's what i have so i'm selfishly asking this question is there any chance the 180 will fall under the 182 certification so um go ahead yeah you know the the owner of our of dyn john has a 180 votes and really desires the same thing as you for that reason that that approver is both of them i think you know and some of this is a little bit of a moving target as as they do the engineering i think the current story is that they don't expect the 180 to fall under the 182 autopilot approval that could change but i believe that's the the current from our engineering certification team uh does that does that match what you've heard lately kyle yeah that that does that and uh i think i forget uh paul i think as you asked the question um you are right on the wing similarity and it does sound like from that step from the roll access standpoint uh the the work done towards the 182 could very likely apply towards 180s and maybe even 185s um the one of the big differences i know is when it comes to the pitch servo that you know your station locations and ribs and whatnot and you know different models or other stcs for baggage and stuff like that have effect on the the pitch servo location uh and additionally you know if people are or we pursue a yaw servo for it as well there's additional potential differences in complexion there so roll your right is very similar um pitch and others are are different but as as well they the faa eyes those are two different airplanes and have to be approached independently okay well i appreciate you guys answering i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna bet on hopefully the owner of the company is gonna have some weight and so maybe i mean yeah the 180 is definitely happening at some point and it's a question of order all right great thank you thank you and i saw i saw drew from above alaska aviation raising his hands a couple times i'm sure he wants to know where the autopilot is for the 180 as well since he just installed the system in one let's see uh greg you've got uh your hand up i think we'll take one more question here from greg and then we'll uh we'll move on to the next section okay can you hear me gentlemen we can excellent excellent um i'm a high fan of the sky view system i guess you got me unmuted so yeah drew above alaska that was my question i was thinking in the same lines as paul as far as combining the 182 with the 180s and possibly the 185s but um also want to say thank you guys for putting this on and your systems are amazing after installing them and flying them that's all i want to put in anybody's airplane they're phenomenal you guys are doing awesome work it's great to see this happening in aviation awesome yeah and our and uh and would you say they've installed our our system in the uh the alaska airmen's association raffle airplane that was just raffled this uh this year um greg apologies back to your question that's that's all right uh recognize what happened there uh love the sky view i've installed it in three experimentals just recently got it installed in our 172 and i've got a friend with a 182 that is not so anxiously awaiting the uh the stc to be totally released he's uh chomping at the bit for it got a question about the auto trim versus the autopilot in our 172 and we had it installed auto trim is not currently available as told to us by our installer uh i understand it is apparently tied with the bonanza stc is that correct can you give us some some information on that yeah so the so um if you okay so if in an example so that's where we came from you know where the dynon product came from the you would typically pair our autopilot with a ray allen trim servo and you hook that all together to our autopilot control panel and boom you have you know electric trim and auto trim if you have a legacy system let's say a a type-certificated airplane and it has electric trim that usually uses like an older style you know big dc motor to run the electric trim and our system isn't compatible with that out of the box and so if you have electric trim what we need is what uh there's a little product a little box that we call a trim amp which sort of converts our signals of controlling trim to something that can drive those higher current trim servers that are typically employed in certificated aircraft so that box will be approved with the bonanza a36 expansion so a lot of bananas have you know legacy electric trim systems that we can't currently connect to and then we will be able to and that'll uh that'll apply to other airplanes as well um so in a 172 if so if you have mechanical trim only the mechanical trim that won't necessarily add that feature to you we won't have our own electric trim system we will have the ability to control and interface with for the purposes of the autopilot auto trim those legacy existing trim systems right now that was my understanding we've got uh we've got the king system in in this 172 and we removed of course the the original servos and put the diamond servos in there but we left the trim servos in place anticipating the release of the auto trim system for that for that unit yeah so you're the person that that's designed to to uh to accommodate okay well get after it all right let's um move on to the next section which is that's the autopilot we talked about that installation methods yeah so let's say you've decided to install how do you install um we have two different ways two kind of completely different ways uh one of which is unique to us uh how i want to tell everybody about that sure so uh there is mike said two options one we do have a direct buy option uh where you as the owner of the airplane can come to us and buy a set of avionics and install and have it installed and signed off by an ia and or a part 145 repair station uh to be added to your aircraft so what that really opens up the door for you know kind of the the really prime examples are uh flying clubs where maybe a couple of members are anp's and one's an ia or or people are good friends with an ia um flight schools that have an ia on staff uh things like that and now all of a sudden in your own hangar with your own donated labor and just a little bit of help from an outside source you're able to get an installation done for barely over the price of the avionics themselves um and that's that's been tremendously helpful a lot of other folks have been taken to their airplane to bob at hanger number four on the field for years and that's who always works on their plane and they don't want to go anywhere else bob hanger number four can install your aircraft as long as he's an ia or or you know can work with one who's going to provide him with a sign off as part of the the process the other option is aside from a direct purchase is to go through one of our unauthorized installation centers which we have i think close to 20 named currently and about 60 or so others that have contacted us and are somewhere along the process of becoming a certified installation center uh so these these places have installed a number of our systems uh some have worked with experimental and certified both uh but they have had their hands on the product had know what it takes to get the job done that you need and have a good sense of how to package the system to fit around whatever other parts and pieces you may have or be purchasing or or trying to keep in the airplane because you like it so they're two avenues one is uh much more flexible and open for a lot of different applications and and settings the other one is much more traditional where you take it to a shop that knows their stuff you leave you're playing with them and they'll get you a plane that's in the next generation of avionics when you're done great and and just uh and to add on to that so the ultimate thing you need whether you're going to uh one of our authorized installation centers or whether you're doing the direct purchase and using your own mechanic is somebody that can apply an stc to an airplane and the basic rule for that is an ia or hire so if you have one of those you have a way to uh to install our products and of course you know uh we're kind of an upstart or you know we're now a couple years into the into the dynon certified effort and some of that you know that direct purchase uh path was borne out of you know we didn't have a network of of certified uh shops at our disposal so as we're working on qualifying people that we get to know and like and trust and we know do great work we're you know we're going to continue to offer the ability for people to uh by themselves it turns out you know what we have learned there's there are there are more there are more ias than you think out there and a lot of ias happen to also have home builds as well so you know we've had you know a lot of customers throughout the years that have said well i've got you an rv i've got you in my my glass hair but i also have a 172 or 182 and i just want to put it in my airplane and so uh we don't want to make uh we didn't think it was fair for that guy to have to you know he couldn't he can legally do an installation he shouldn't have to go to a shop necessarily so it kind of benefits everyone all right so any questions on the installation stuff coming up next we're going to talk about the system overview the price thing and how everything kind of fits together from uh from a purchasing perspective so if anybody has any questions on the install paths uh raise a hand otherwise we'll move on and josh if there are any questions from facebook you'd like to share we'd be happy to hear them nothing uh super pressing at the moment i'll keep the lookout all right look we've got one of our uh yes welcome thanks for joining us hi fellas how you doing good how are you good uh glad to be part of the chat um i work for uh chesapeake sport pilot we're uh authorized diamond dealer um i just had the quick question do you guys uh i i've always kind of had this idea i plan on instigating it at our maintenance facility you guys have any kind of templates for when you're trying to set up the panel for the customer's install like maybe they want it installed a certain way you can kind of lay it out before they you actually cut any holes and kind of get the customer's input on where they want what equipment located a couple couple of things um first of all there's a cab program out there called a panel planner that is available to shops and to customers that does has all of our parts um we do also make available for our customers and installers uh all of the cab files for the cutout shapes for uh displays modules parts and pieces so that you can if you are using cad software and have that kind of technology available can do that also what jeff is showing or whoever screen sharing right now is showing is our catalogs which we just got a new batch of and i'll be sending out uh to a number of our our installation centers and certainly if anyone else in the zoom or facebook is interested let us know at the sales office and we can get you one these have full size color cutouts of the ten inch and seven inch hdx as well as all of our various panel modules so and there there are a number of them so with one catalog you can take a pair of scissors go out to your airplane and hold things in place and really kind of get a sense of how everything looks uh one when we're normally open for walk-in customers uh i can't tell you how many people have walked in with a roll of butcher paper that they traced the outline of their panel in the in the airplane and have cut it out and are rolling it out on our conference cable as we're putting things in place and and laying it out just to see you know physically where do i look at things uh there there's of course an added layer of dimension which what is behind the panel uh you know what other constraints are there in terms of physically making things fit but at least to get started with with layout digitally you've got the panel planner program and then also if you have cad software of your own we have the individual files to get you you know rock and enrollment then for hands-on types we've got the catalogs and a few other things too okay awesome thank you no problem it looks like we've got another question from rob i'm clicking your unmute button hello thanks uh thanks like everybody has been saying for uh putting this on these are great so this is a really lousy question but how much how many hours does it take to do an install because we hear these these horror stories of well i'm going to spend 23 000 on the hardware and then you talk to somebody it's like yeah probably plan on another 20 000 for the install well let me let me chime in on that a little bit and then i may uh if he's still here i think drew from above alaska recently installed a skyview system and he may be able to to speak a little bit to that with from hands-on experience as well um it it's important to note first that the answer is it depends that is the official answer um a a well-seasoned dynon knowledgeable uh installer working with an airplane that doesn't have a rat's nest behind the panel uh truthfully could probably get a really basic installation done in the 50-60 hour range if they're really cooking um most people at this time are not seasoned dinos installers so that that's not gonna happen most airplanes are not beauties behind the panel most of them are rat's nest says many many people have come to find so that's also more than likely not going to be the case um there are and then there's there's how complex is the panel how complex is the system as does the customer already have adsb out do they already have two ifr navigators and coordinator navcoms you know are we talking about just a display in and out of ours and a magnetometer a compass that's easy are we talking about two screens adsb the com radio the vista that the other thing coaxing antennas you're looking at a much larger figure so i think we we state on average anywhere from 90 to 150 hours for a reasonably well prepared aircraft um again that that doesn't factor in if you're doing this as part of an annual all the other things that are happening or you know interior upgrades so a total bill out the door a lot of people do see a larger hour figure than they're expecting for just the dynam part of it but there is a lot else there too and that's that's a difficult thing for us to know for each individual case just because there are so many variables um i'll i'll add that that you know we have a uh you know a project effort going on within dynam because you know the original the original poster on a wall you know years ago it was like you know it's gonna be a 40 hour install and of course that hasn't materialized and we're you know we're not close to that yet but i have all of that can be installed you know in in you know dozens of hours not you know weeks and months and hundreds of hours and so we do have some projects going on inside dynon to get closer to that including you know we already have a lot of pre-manufactured wiring harnesses that go together we're working on harnesses that are kind of like a super harness that kind of gaggles everything together so it really is just a lot more even more of a plug-and-play solution we already have um a mounting tray that attaches to the back of um of of the panel that's used in certified installations there's a revision of that coming out and then another tray that will mount the com radio and transponder in the in the legacy radio stack location so we're doing work towards lowering those hours we also have a pretty big documentation after this you won't appreciate this uh as the end customer but we have a pretty big documentation revamp coming along to simplify the documentation so that when somebody is picking up um you know the wrench on the dynon system for the first time it's not going to be uh as intimidating you know right now our installation manual is pretty big uh but there's a lot that we can sort of peel out some of the things that are auxiliary systems and and and things like that things like having nice uh wiring uh even better wiring diagrams than we currently have all of our harnesses are already color coded to the harnesses we manufacture but we are thinking actively about that because uh you know there there's room to improve there for sure i did unmute drew i don't know if you uh kept any hour figures on what it was what your installation was like but you did a relatively complete system i think just about everything but autopilot and engine monitoring yeah um can you hear me okay cool i'm i'm known for uh sound issues so uh yeah i mean it would definitely vary depending on what you got going on i mean we essentially stripped everything including the instrument panel itself out everything was gutted so there's not a wire left in there and then we built we fabricated a whole new panel and designed around the skyview system i would say you know once we had the the panel done the actual installation of all the harnesses and the displays and the avionics racks and radios and wiring and all that it was probably in the 90 hour range but then on top of that was the whole gutting and fabricating the panel and all that so it would definitely vary on each specific project based on how far you're going and and there that's a great data point for for what i mentioned earlier this was drew's first exposure to the skyview system and from a certified or experimental standpoint as far as i know and and there's a there's a 98 hour comment that matches our our kind of our spec so uh copacetic in my mind all right uh let's see um we'll see rob's up next that she got mike i think rob was the one put his hand down greg does have another question okay uh there we go so greg go ahead yeah so i was just going to chime in to dovetail with what uh what y'all were just talking about i didn't get a specific hour labor hour breakout but we recently did a 172 at a dining install center down in florida and we did the entire ball of wax everything dual 10-inch hdx screens got the autopilot com radio ems everything you could think of and so that would include an entire panel redo this was in an airplane with the kln 94 and the mfd and the the nav2 autopilot system and we also added an avidine ifd 440 which retails for about 12 thousand dollars and like i said i didn't get a dollar value breakout but the entire dinan suite plus the avadai and plus labor out the door was 49 000 in some change so you can you can back into those numbers and figure out what they were what they were putting in for labor hours but we we thought that was a fairly reasonable number given that we also gained 46 pounds of usable weight in the airplane in the process yeah we should uh we should put that on the uh on the price list you know it guaranteed at least 20 pounds of uh usable useful load what's your useful load worth to you per pound in this case all right yeah thanks uh thanks for that all right let's see so we'll move on to the next uh area which is kind of talking through the system the price list the bits and pieces the hard parts um you know we have done other uh of these virtual booth visits on the features how to use it we're not going to go into as much of that today we'll touch on it just a bit we're not going to do a whole lot of button pushing on the panel this is more about your kind of ready to order how things go together so i'm going to go back to screen share and we're going to kind of use two two things here both are which are available on our website give me a second here so piece number one is our certified brochure and piece number two is are priceless let me show you where you can find those so under the website under more uh product literature this is where the this is literally the same brochure that we print if we saw you at a show we'd hand this out to you it kind of has a little bit of everything there's two of them actually there's the certified catalog that has we'll get back to that and then the second thing is the system pricing which is a distilled it's not part by part it's a major component but you know uh and and the major things that you you go along with and let me show where else that's under the product literature but also if we go to let's back to the website we just go to either pricing come on website so if we go to the pricing page my web browsers having a fit alright so we go to the aircraft models page uh and we click uh and then we go down uh the model list is over here and on the right this pricing information is the same as the brochure we're about to look at and then there's also an excel calculator which is a little more detailed we're not going to use that today so now i'll go to the um the kind of brochure and the price you where do you want to start guys you want to start with the pricing and uh how about how about tell people like what's the base installation and we'll break it down into what you know what the pieces are and what it cost what do you mean uh why don't you pull up the uh the pricing list okay there you go and scroll down a little tiny bit for me there so a question we get fairly often in the sales office is all right look what's the minimum i can spend to get this system in there like what what how little can i buy if i i just got to get this done but i don't have the the time or the budget for a whole bunch of stuff what you're looking at on your screen right here is that list so the the bare minimum as as defined by the stc requires that you have a display of either size one seven or 110 uh an atahars which is your your attitude an air data computer that's plumb to pedo and static and uh an angle of attack if equipped uh either remote magnetometer which is your source of magnetic heading a gps model 2020 which is the what skyview needs to locate itself on a map as well as drive the synthetic vision database that also is your compliant position source for adsb if you have our transponder uh the last piece as far as skyview is concerned is the backup battery uh which provides at least an hour of run time from the loss of ships power in flight also lets you do things like boot the display up before engine start so you can check your timers and clocks and watch oil pressure and things like that come alive as you start the engine uh the other component required with the skyview installation is our backup d10a and the required components there is the instrument itself as well as the internal backup battery for it which also provides about the same amount of runtime uh very commonly purchased items that that also go with it because they save more time than their than they're worth uh is the shelf tray which gives you a convenient spot to attach all the essential pieces uh pre-manufactured display harness which is trim to fit for those things that almost every display and installation needs a usb port extension which brings one of the two usb ports on the back of the display to the pilot side of the cockpit for data to go up and down cyclical databases from the faa as well as uh diagnostic reports data logs screen shots things like that then we also have a pre-made harness for the d10a which is quite simply just power and ground so with a seven inch display that equates to this 98 65 figure you see which i round up and say just shy of 10 000 and with an 11 inch i'm sorry a 10 inch display uh you're just over 11 000. so there's sort of your bare minimum if i just wanted to put this in and nothing else that's as low as you can spend and still get the required components to get the system installed this is just a visual on those parts you've got of course your skyview display the backup uh d10a the atahar's in the lower left here that's that's all of your it's all of the sensors for your primary flight instruments it's a pedostatic angle of attack all the inertial sensors the rate sensors and the accelerometers that sense attitude and and the uh the skid ball and the turn rate uh altitude and vertical speed the remote magnetometer uh there actually is a magnetometer in the atahr's but most people find uh it's easiest especially in a certified aircraft to put the atahr behind the panel because that's where you have all of your uh you know your legacy uh airspeed and ketostatic lines are already routed there so you put the outhouse behind the panel it also makes it easier to wire then you install a remote magnetometer out in a wing or in the rear of the aircraft depending on what's best for the aircraft the gps uh let me just zoom in even a little more um the gts is uh you know one thing that we do uniquely is this is a gps receiver plus antenna so it's got four wires it has no coax going to it because all of the electronics and the antenna are in one thing most other gps receivers or products have just the antenna remoted and then you have to have coax that goes back to the you know into the navigator and there has been a history in those products of there being interference and of that gps signal that have uh you know caused some um some issues in the in the fleet so uh this it's all just data you know power ground you know all the you know low voltage and then the transmit receive that's the battery it's a small brick about you know the size of a little smaller and a baseball although it's square it's not really baseball it's like a block of cheese um the shelf tray that's the current version there's a an improved version that's in the works and then the usb port which remotes the stuff to the front and you can add on to that let's see an additional display you want to talk through that kyle yeah a lot of folks ask us questions about what can you do with one display what can you do with two uh you know they they have this vision of their mind of well i want this one small one for just this and this one over here to be just that and this one over here to be just that and the truth is every sky view display is equally capable whether it's a 7 inch or a 10 inch you can put as much information or as little information on any one screen at once as you want and you can reconfigure them on the fly so a common layout is a primary flight display on the left you know the pilot side screen probably with the engine band below it so they've got their basic flight instruments and health of the engine right in front of them uh then a lot of times they'll have the second display either all the way over on the right side or sort of in a central location and that will often have the full screen map or maybe a half screen map with a half screen approach plate next to it um of course skyview does allow up to three uh displays to be installed so in some applications you can see a pfd an engine monitor and a a moving map all full screen uh with with plenty of viewing real estate so where and how you lay those out uh basically my my answer to everyone's question is can i do this is yes it can the question is how are you what what is really the best application for for your aircraft so you've got almost infinite flexibility and adjustability in terms of what you see where um i mean that's great for a single pilot operation or if you always fly with a co-pilot or a safety pilot or are in a training aircraft and want to excuse me do partial panel so take all the primary flight instruments over to the co-pilot side only give the the kid learning to fly the engine instruments in the map and you know make them hold a heading and do some other things so you've got a a lot of ways to build additional tools into the flexibility of of being able to to reconfigure the screens really on the fly so so extra screens are just extra screen real estate um and there are there are a lot of things that you can do with it and also a lot of capability you can get out of just one screen and then you know what i was showing a moment ago was uh a pretty typical uh you know what a beachcraft bonanza upgrade might look like it's got the well let me go back to it um it's not like that yeah so this is one of our demo panels if we were at a at a show um you know this is what we'd be pushing buttons in front of so you've got two displays the apus d10a as kyle said you can sort of configure anything the way you want you do have to have the primary flight instruments kind of in in front of you um and and then the engine instruments kind of the core things that are legally required have to be in front of you but then you can sort of do whatever you want over here you can have the map up here or not we could go you know full full screen on that and then you know your other bits and pieces you know these guys these other modules we'll talk about they come in horizontal and vertical versions then of course you'll pair our stuff with uh we prefer an avidyne and a ps engineering audio panel but we'll work with just about anything out there so cancel that go back to the screen share i think segway is nicely into our i think our next topic was ifr capability uh or ifr connect connectivity what kind of instruments that we can and cannot talk to um but by and large just about any ifr gps out there our system can connect to uh what our system provides to an ifr platform is fundamentally the needles if you will your hsi and your vertical navigation which they'll call v-nav for a gps or glide slope for an ios if it's a gps that you're connected to our system is going to display the entire active flight plan so you get a waypoint list with time varying distance to all your waypoints the route will be projected onto our moving map including even a hold pattern i believe um and so you'll you'll have all of your sequencing visible to you both uh you know spatially and numerically if they're giving you instructions like report this point or whatever you know okay i'm gonna need a report in 30 seconds that's what i'm gonna be arriving at that point and start my descent or whatever the case may be um our system does also talk to most modern and i emphasize the modern term uh of nav radio or nav coms uh your your sl30s your uh 255 a or b uh just about anything with an rs232 serial output can activate our hsi and our glideslope um some of your your legacy systems your king kx 155 zero narcos or collins they have an analog signal that our system is not able to interpret and display certainly plenty of people that have those radios and those systems will leave the radio and the indicator head for it in place and it's existing in a peaceful harmony with the skyview system but it isn't actually integrated so yeah kyle said most of the the modern uh equipment you know the avadyn ifc the uh the garmin gns gtn the new gps 175 they all work just wonderfully um and then from a what you buy in terms of skyview bits and pieces there's an ifr connectivity kit there's a piece of digital interfacing that that we need to do that isn't in the display itself that's this air ink module that adds five hundred dollars uh let's talk through some of the other things uh kind of so additional displays when we talk about some of the other skip around in and not the other price list let's talk about engine monitoring and what that entails and then we'll go and talk about some of the ancillary systems so uh talk us through engine monitoring kyle sure uh so engine monitoring uh you know fundamentally skyview is approved as a primary engine indication all of your your common engine uh requirements from rpm oil pressure temperature uh manifold pressure oil pressure all of all of the common indications can be viewed many are able to be discerned natively by the sky view like voltage and rpm things like that that don't require a specific sensor uh what we'll get back to on the pricing sheet in a minute uh she goes over the sensors and probes that we do offer for our system as well as prefabricated harnesses that are generally speaking trim to fit so that it's you know a lot less time on the installer to fabricate those harnesses and connect them to a bunch of different sensors and probes so the the system consists of the ems module itself which is a few inch square uh you know four inches by about eight maybe about an inch thick i'm sure he's got a picture of there oh yeah on the left that's the module itself uh right next to it you see some of the harnesses and the specific sensors and probes so the the engine monitoring system does a lot more than just your engine uh it can tap into a number of aircraft systems each module has i believe at least eight general purpose inputs which you can configure to be a fuel tank level sensor or a gear position indicator or a trim or a flat position indicator um or pedo heat contact or the insert general purpose use here you can tell it you're a contact you're a level you're a pressure you're a temperature and it'll be able to report it to you you can define alarms based on that so you can be alerted to things that you want to so a lot of flexibility there you have roughly eight to work with so if you've got you know a nose a left a right gear in an in transit all that require their own contacts that's going to consume four which means if you've got a main an aux and a tip tank that all have sensors in them you're not going to be able to monitor all of those at once so you'll kind of have to pick and choose what all you want to utilize through the general input general purpose inputs or traditional other indicators but you have a ton of flexibility and the uh that we we offer the kits that give you all new sensors and probes and three main harnesses for very competitive uh prices as you can see here uh adding engine monitoring to a skyview system is for a common four cylinder engine only about a seventeen eighteen hundred dollar proposition and still under two thousand dollars for a six cylinder engine which in the industry is rock bottom pricing and that includes uh the entire fuel computer the fuel flow tran transducer that's really that's what's really nice about when you choose an integrated system like skyview is you know you start with already an affordable pfd and backup set of flight instruments you know at that sort of ten thousand dollars price point but then adding the incremental bits and pieces like a full engine monitor it's not let's say an additional three five seven thousand dollars there are engine monitors out there in all of those price brackets we you know we do it for under 2 000 in basically all in for all cases and they are i would argue even more feature rich uh because it can tie into a lot of the other stuff on the gps and give you things like your range till empty because we know gps speed and we know what your fuel flow is so we can kind of integrate these different sensors and give you a lot more situational awareness that's engine monitoring let's whip back up the price list and talk through additional displays so here are some of the other features and bits and pieces you want to walk down this kyle yeah sure so uh again really common question we get in sales is adsb okay i gotta have it i've been putting it off um i'm tired of filling out the adapt programs or getting yelled at or or whatever so what what do i gotta have and and what can i have as well so fundamentally speaking adsv out is constituted by a transponder that is blipping out your location and information pressure altitude like they have for years but now also a whole bunch of other information from the gps in the system like my altitude and my wingspan and my aircraft type and my tail number and all this other fun stuff so the transponder uh our model transponder model 261 is an extended squirter which is a a power thing it's a strength rating essentially uh that is blipping out a strong enough and a high enough integrity position source uh to comply with adsb requirements in the us so that that gets you compliant to fly into most airspace here in the usa um and and in several other countries as well uh additionally you have the option of getting adsb in which is going to bring traffic and weather uh both as weather radar but also as metar uh into the skyview system as well so traffic is projected both on the moving map as well as on the pfd so you'd get a three-dimensional target flying across in front of you to help you spot them uh you would also get traffic that's color-coded on the moving map uh based on its threat level as well there's kind of a puck shape that's around you that's that's defining what aircraft you're being alerted to uh whether you get uh you know weather radar displayed on the v on the moving map which you can turn you know toggle on and off if if you don't want to clutter the screen you don't have to have it there uh also each airport that has a you know weather reporting of some variety will have that metar listed both in a decoded or decoded means nearest terminal area forecast and nearest reported winds aloft so you can really do some flight planning decision making and and that kind of thing i saw a question just pop up on the zoom chat yes it can be shared with uh with tablets yes and so you know basically your adsd in and out and transponder those things together are these two kind of sub kits um which are you know just just slightly over three thousand dollars one other question a lot of people ask uh is you know has to do with like well i already have one piece of that so our our system is only able to get adsb in from our own components right now so if you have a links or a sentry or something like that our system is not able to use that input to project traffic on the map uh let's see similarly you you don't have to have our adsb out to have our espn you can have either one or both so if you've already got a transponder of some variety that's checking the box of adsb compliance but you're tired of your battery-powered stratus and your ipad for traffic you can have our adsdn receiver which is only about 900 for the module and antenna and the pre-made harness so very very much the system is flexible to work around other components and systems that you have already all right um and then the last couple of things i just broke the screen share one second the last couple of items the major major components are the com radio and the dedicated knob panel well yeah talking about yeah go ahead and talk about them and i'll spotlight them on the panel as well sounds good uh so uh there there are more uh a little five minute tutorial videos that kind of show you uh a little bit more specifically about what these things can do uh the com radio is a uh a wonderfully featured enfold com radio it is calm only uh so a lot of people uh wonder if our radio is nav as well and it is not uh so the com features you have an atis an atc a tower and a ground button on the com panel itself and those use the aeronautical database that is in the sky view itself to pre-populate frequencies for you based on either a whole airport or it will frequency confirm what frequency you're on uh so if you dial in a frequency it's going to say you know the nearest one of this is this airport code and this weather station i'll do a quick little i'll do a quick little demo of that just uh just uh it is like one of my favorite features in sky view because it's quite different than other com radios as i i like to say that i've flown from you know seattle washington to oshkosh and have never you know you can still do this you can still spin in frequencies but you just never ever need to instead you just press the airport button and then it's saying nearest nearest the airport right now is uh the skagit bay view which is a kbvs up here in the pacific northwest and so now i've loaded that airport in from here i just use the four buttons to pull up the frequencies i want so if i'm uh you know uh you know 20 miles out i might grab the atis so i push the atis button or aws in this case and then standby uh frequency slot i just click here it flip-flops i get closer i'm going to ask you know contact tower or unicom in this case and flip flop and then uh once we you know are on the ground if there was a ground that would be there here where this is not a controlled airport so there is no ground frequency and then similarly there's almost always a departure and approach frequency that's associated with the airport that you can use there so as you're flying along you just say what's my new year's airport it's uh that one and you know what's the frequency we want to listen to whether it's tower or c10f and that's basically the way you use the com radio and uh one other great feature of that radio is you saw mike was pushing the knob in uh to click to change from active to standby frequency and one other great feature of this radio is that you can push and hold the button in and it'll activate what we call dual watch so it will listen to both the active and standby frequency simultaneously so this is great if you're uh you know talking to approach you want to pick up atis or are on talking or talking to ground and want to pick up betas or let's say you're flying in formation or nearby with some other people you have your air to air frequency on one and whatever your control frequency is on uh the other panel uh up there you see there's two of them uh the one that's available to every certified uh dynon system is the three knobs we call that the sv knob panel so that gives you a dedicated knob for heading or track a dedicated knob for an altitude bug and a dedicated knob for a barometric setting or your kohlsman window as many of us know it all three of those knobs are push button as well and as you push heading or altitude as one would expect with industry standard that is going to bug your nearest altitude or your present heading so uh you know applications for that are just you haven't been using the heading bug but now you want to you don't want to spin it around from the bottom click it in give it a couple twists to the direction you want to go and there you are uh you know this is great and helpful for cross country uh especially helpful for students in flight training again as we have put our system at a number of 172s which are largely your your flight training on operations wind drift circles turns around the points uh just you know shondell or not shondells lazy eights to to configure your coordination maneuvers and holding altitude these these provide tremendous benefit then as well moving into the panel that's to the right of it which is the autopilot control panel if it is an autopilot approved and equipped aircraft the autopilot is able to follow the heading or the track bug and altitude bug as well so they're useful with an autopilot but do serve a lot of purposes uh with a non-autopilot equipped skyview installation as well you want to talk through i'll bring us back well you're doing that i one thought i did i forgot to touch on the barrel knob uh has one of probably the coolest features i think of the whole system uh when you're on the ground at you know let's say an airport that doesn't have an edsb ground station your adsb receiver may or may not be receiving information until you're airborne so while you're taxiing you can click and hold that barrel knob in and it's going to sink your pressure altitude to the present gps altitude so that those two are in sync then that same push button action again once you're airborne is going to find the nearest broadcast metar and load that figure in or if your destination uh airport is within 20 miles from a flight plan it will grab that metar and and plug that in so you're already synced up by the time you arrive so very very slick feature i think with the barrel knob it there with the airport code in the window and coming back uh full circle the bits and pieces that you would install here they are so the com radio is twenty two hundred dollars the dedicated knob panel is 250 and then the autopilot i guess uh we'll talk about that a little bit more for the the aircraft i have available in a second but it's 550. yeah and then uh we are touching on five o'clock here do we want to open up and see if anybody has some questions that they've been yeah yearning to ask all right we've got brent sorry brent so brent you should have on your screen uh there you go oh he's unmuted yep i do so when we get ready to buy do we have to go to some other place to buy the stc or is that all just done through you uh it's all purchased together whether that's through an installation center or if it's a direct buy purchase it's just a line item on the invoice uh that's that you pay for there is a a form that we will send you and actually this is i'm glad you asked that because i don't think we mentioned to bring that up as part of the process for every certified airplane there's a form that we send out for either you or the installer to fill out where you say this is all my information about me as the owner this is the airplane's tail number and serial number etc and this is the person who's going to be installing it and all of that gets copied over to the stc permission statement which is the legal document that grants you a specific owner of a specific airplane permission to install our system and use rstc so that's that's a just a checkbox in the process that we do with everybody whether it's a certified installation center or a direct purchase okay and i see that you have two some of these people are buying the two ad hours are you having ad hours fail or no no actually for certified the the redundant out of ours is not yet available that is something that we'll be bringing to certified eventually but uh that's something that stems from the experimental world have you had any issue with them uh not any kind of repeatable consistent issue uh really we just wanted to make it i believe it stems from people we're buying and configuring two out of hearts and wondering how they couldn't make it work and i think we said ah well we could probably make this able to run two out of ours people want redundancy in everything so um for for your hard ifr equipped aircraft uh in the experimental world and hopefully seeing a certified world dual out of ours will be available but it's not uh not a mitigation from a known issue so much as a customer request for you know endless redundancy yeah i yeah i would say you know it's uh if you were flying an airline you're going to have three or four you know uh some which are networked that are cross-checking each other uh attitude sources and you're gonna have some standby backups that are completely independent and similarly if you're flying let's say uh uh 1979 cessna you're going to have your vacuum based gyro you'll have your electric base turn and bank and so you have kind of this these dissimilar systems so within skyview itself even just going back to you know last decade for our home built uh the dual added hearts came out from just a redundancy need and one of the nice things about this doesn't apply to certified yet but one of the nice things about having dual added hards is they do actually cross-check each other so if you have uh um if you do have an issue you know any product has some failure you know rarely and they are rare but they do happen um or even just like a you know a pedo leak or something like that that affects you know one but not the other depending on the location so what the redundant has left us do is one you've got a backup source in case you have a heart failure but you also have a cross-check algorithm that's saying ooh the attitudes aren't the same where the turn rates aren't the same you then get a cross-compare screen which you can choose which one you want to make your active and primary in certified we have uh a slightly different solution so you do want to have uh uh even even in a skyview clip panel it's always good to have a independent and dissimilar system and a lot of many people most people do that even in an ifr equipped skyview installation and in the certified it's kind of built into the minimum system configuration and that's through uh the just the spotlight of the panel real quick that's through the the combination of the ataharas that's connected to the sky and the e5d10a which has its own internal anatomies and so uh the in a certified framework the the dual adaharz has some complexity in terms of the way it gets approved so that's why it isn't there on day zero or even even now so you do have kind of multiple aha sources built into the the system as a whole is you know these two things together that's a great question uh let's see bill do you have an uh bill uh let's meet you oh hi so um i know that uh kyle mentioned that that uh even those of us not fortunate enough to be on the uh on the aml for for uh for auto pilots we're we're allowing that bill for the airplanes that we have currently in the hangar so if it's one that we are actively working on we'll let you get the autopilot servo wiring harnesses so that's your your bonanzas your 182s and your moonies whenever we pick up a navion you will be my first call all righty okay i was just curious about about that uh pre-wiring um it's not that it's that that hard and uh um you know i it's it's amazing how how simple uh bus busing all of this stuff in the uh in the uh skynet the skyden sky no network yeah skydiving network terminators that are going to take a different thing different thing uh it's amazing how how much simpler uh that makes life and it's something that i suggested to somebody several decades ago and they just didn't understand so you guys have got it all right thanks for that uh let's see we've got chuck what's next i think all right chuck here's your mute myself all right uh to follow up on a question in the group chat so if you have an s tech 50 and you can't and your bonanza isn't uh certified for an autopilot yet can you put in your system and run your autopilot back through your current nav or 450 or 530. so our our system is not approved to provide the attitude source that most of your or all of your third-party autopilots require so some have an internal attitude source i believe your true tracks and i think a trio utilizes a their own version of an electric turn coordinator as like your autopilot control head but for any of the systems that require a attitude source that's certified um the the only way to keep a system like that working is to keep the instruments that make it work so that's usually your your vacuum pump and your artificial horizon and directional gyro so you can keep those systems working it comes with the cost of the weight savings benefit of losing those parts and pieces at least in the interim um but the the two can exist in peaceful harmony but one does not drive the other all right thank you and paul oh you're up now yeah great uh yeah i got uh you when you showed the video of the uh d10 it reminded me i wanted to ask a question about that uh so i also wanted to clarify did you say that the d10 has caught part of what you're saying when you showed you were talking about the ad hours are you saying that the dta has its own at hearts or right yeah the the d10a is kind of a self-contained uh you know the 10 uh in in the product name is it's kind of like ten and one flight instruments so like all of the flight instruments are built inside right into the can that's behind the panels uh so it has all the ray sensors the accelerometers the pitot static the air data computer um it has the capability of doing magnetic heading but not in the certified installation so it's kind of a self-contained set of flight instruments that's you know in a with a four-inch screen okay great and then the the follow-up on that about the d10a is the hdx it's a beautiful system the d10 kind of looks when you put it next to the hdx it it kind of shows its age um is there without i know you can't release too much on you know future stuff but is that something you guys are thinking about as far as kind of updating that uh old reliable but old looking instrument there there is always a future product let's let's put it that way there's there's always a future problem and uh never never count on technology standing still especially in avionics you know we're really proud of the fact that we that our products have long life expands you know the usd 10 as you said it's it's uh how old is it uh it's it's over 15. yeah yeah 2003 i think is when it started shipping so it's coming up on uh yeah it's 15 plus so it's a it's uh it's probably our best selling product ever it's uh still a fantastic product and performs super awesome really there's there's always a future product uh we don't have anything to announce right now okay thank you all right um let's see if you've got time for one more there mike there was something in the facebook chat um yeah and maybe you didn't quite expand on it fully um airing 429 questions in terms of what all can be shared between um something like a 430 or 530 to the skyview and vice versa yeah so there are so as kyle said there are a set of uh you know technical mumbo jumbo like aaron labels which are kind of like data widgets that get passed back and forth and the prime ones that get passed back and forth are the ones that relate to uh navigation which are your course deviation your course direction your flight plan legs uh which contains enough information for us to draw the flight plan on on our on our map um there are some other things like i think pressure altitude and i forget all of them off the top of my head to be honest but there's like pressure altitude that goes back and forth and i forget which direction and there's a few others we do have on our wiki a list of of those labels that go back and forth but it's primarily centered the main capability centered on that nav information and if you have and if it's a a nav com or sorry a gps nav it'll have the radio based information as well so the the vor cdi the ils cdi and glide slope so that's the the main thing was there was anything was there any specificity to like what a particular piece of information that he was looking for uh i think the main information they were looking for was what can be from the skyview to the 530 as in what information can go uh skyview to navigator i i believe the about the only and i could be a little bit off but pressure altitude which is used for an lpv approach and also uh obs your omni-bearing uh direction selector going back to the nav radio are the the only two usable ones that i know i know you cannot edit or manipulate a flight plan a gps flight plan from the sky view to a navigator that information is all one way from the navigator over to skyview to be displayed yeah this this is a a page from our wiki which is admittedly the wiki in general is uh is fairly out of date um and not not maintained a whole lot but this is a document that describes the the things that that that at least this many things so again this hasn't been updated in a while but at least this many things the coarse heading altitude uh pressure altitude bauer corrected alpha 2 so different variants of altitude air speed rear speed total air temperature because a lot of the navigators do incorporate this into their own computing and magnetic variation so we send this to the airing uh to the external navigator and then these are the things that we that skyview consumes uh to use everything all of you know these things let's for example make up your cdi and then you've got time and deviation this is your localizer your glide slope and uh and then graphical things this is the the flight plan bits and pieces so these are kind of the the um kind of the technical you know the version and and they're pretty understandable and that's under wiki dot dynavionic.com and there's a aaron 429 label and it might be more than this these days i'm not sure whether it is but it's this is the core list of things that go back and forth all right um let's see let me get my bearings again i've lost the screen that has our program there we are let's see so we talked about legacy systems um what what do we not provide ourselves so the the skyview is basically everything in your panel with the exception of an r navigator and an audio panel so if i just jump back out to the panel view one more time this is this is kind of how a typical uh you know skyview certified panel is going to look when you're done with it it's going to have you know flight instruments map engine com radio ads be in and out transponder back to flight instruments these guys are optional but highly recommended uh and then the the the two kind of components or whatever your ifr navigation source is there's an avadyn 440 and then an audio panel to tie everything together um you know one thing just to to make really clear skyview does have a complete flight planning and mapping engine built into itself uh it just isn't certified for for providing the gps ifr navigation but if you're not on an ifr flight plan uh i basically promise you what you're going to do is you're going to go into the nearest list you're going to go find where you're getting your hamburger you're going to pull this information about the airport you might check the weather because it's so easy it's touch screen you're gonna say direct to and you're off and then when you know because we have the touch screen map you're going to you know check your air space and you know it's so much easier than most other uh devices although i have to admit the avidyne interfaces is really is really awesome too but it is it is centered more around your ifr procedures and and and that uh flight regime so if you uh if you were equipping and you don't have to equip with one of uh you know one of those ifr navigators either if you did have you know a cessna 150 or 172 and you're never going to go ifr you can literally you can leave a space for that for the for the future a lot of people actually do that in experimental land these days when they think they might get an ifr navigator someday they might leave a spot in the panel and then just use skyview's built-in navigation capability most of the time so anything you want to add to that kyle uh actually i was gonna jump our checklist a little bit because it seems like it applies and talk about uh what kind of navigation and mapping databases come for free and what you can get additionally uh so what what one sees on on either of the displays mike's got up there is the it's a base map which underneath it all is black for land blue for water uh and then on top of that we have a colored shaded topographic map which is also what the synthetic vision databases is looking at uh then rastered on top of that you see airports airspace beacons uh ifr fixes uh all of these kind of stuff out how i commonly describe as the meat and potatoes from a sectional um but read here not a actual sectional itself so what you see here is is what we give you for free including the faa data that updates cyclically uh every 28 days or four weeks from the faa that's a simple download a file to our usb stick plug it into the display copy the files over and you're done what you can get additionally for a subscription from a couple sources our actual approved charts uh so from seattle avionics for around about a hundred dollars a year you can get a sectional ifr low and ifr high background map um and mike if you're looking for that i think it's under the menu map layers yeah yeah they're reconfiguring yep so now you actually see the sectional itself which uh you know it's important to note that when you're looking at that often many of us like to have track up but if you are looking at track up on a sectional chart and you're not going due north all of your text is going to be sideways so a common thing people do is when they're looking at the sectional they use the the north up compass that mike's tapped on right there to swap the screen from being a track up to a north up so that you're still able to read everything um just just as he has a sectional for vfr purposes you can pull up an ifr low or an ifr high chart uh the chart subscription also gets you geo-referenced procedure plates so these are your departures your arnav or ios approaches you can you know have them up there you are geo referenced and spin the heading book for mike so they can see how awesome that is so if you've been given an intercept that you want to go to you can grab that heading bug and turn that big blue line and just land it right on whatever it is you want to go to if you have the autopilot you're already heading there you're flying by hand you've got an easy bug to follow to get where you're going while you make the next moves maybe in the ifr navigator so uh uh as well airport uh diagrams are are also included in that list and so you can get a geo-referenced uh set you know plate there to see exactly where you are um there's a pretty cool feature where once you have a plate loaded up as he does now if you click and hold one of the knobs it'll temporarily hide that screen and then as soon as you land and you're taxiing off you click it again and it's going to bring that plate right back up so you can taxi where you go as ground or whoever is telling you you know right on left right on alpha do this do that do that in the other jump in circles and one one other thing about the uh the airport diagrams is uh what the the that seattle avionics subscription which is only 99 bucks a year which gets you this the sectionals the ifr low the ifr high all of your procedure plates all the faa airport diagrams but it also has um that seattle avionics acquired the the flight guide diagram so these are uh i think it's almost somewhere between four and five thousand airports basically most of the airports you have uh airport diagrams for um that basically blows away any of the competition which often have like you know the fa ones plus maybe a few other high traffic but this is harvey field just you know uh just uh east of uh of of pain field it's a 2500 runway you don't need an airport diagram because it's really only uh one way around the uh the ground but you still have it you know for for figuring out parking and and the um is often usually a legend for the main uh features on even small airports that's super useful again geo reference if we were on the ground here you see the airplane just taxiing all around and for for those that are international or uh you know maybe come from an airline background you can also get jefferson chart data and use it on skyview it's at quite a higher premium than that many of us are are interested in but both options are available all right is there anything we haven't covered um one thing to clarify i think we already said this but it's kind of a frequently asked question like what do i need to install and the answer is um the the course system is let's see do i still have i don't have the panel up the core system is just uh reset here the core system is the primary flight instruments and of course you kind of get the map for free because it has all of the um you know the gps and all the databases are all just kind of built into the system and the backup flight instruments you don't even have to have an engine monitor you don't have a transponder autopilot so that core system that's the the minimum uh you know installable unit and that's that you know just under ten thousand dollars to start and then everything else adds on as sort of uh uh feature chunks and that's you know if we go back to just real briefly our price sheet let me go back to screen share and that's how the this price list is laid out which is here's the core system if you were to add an additional you know that's your about 10 or 11 000 with a bigger screen additional displays add uh three to forty five hundred plus bits and pieces um adsb in and out together that's your kind of three-ish thousand dollars com radio knob panel we talked about those skyview network cables let's talk about skype network cables for a second yeah let's do that that's a good fit let's do that okay uh so this is a question a lot of folks have and and the answer isn't a one sentence straightforward again the answer is it depends um there we'll be able to tell you based on the parts and pieces you're getting how many network cables you need the lengths that you're going to need and these are the white cables with the black connectors that you see connecting a bunch of these parts and pieces um the lengths really truly vary from one installation to the next one 172. might use a totally different layout than another 172 of the same year make and model um so there are a couple of strategies people employ in approaching the network cables most commonly is we make a sort of an educated guess on what's probably going to be the right lengths and we may need to exchange one or two before the job's done option two is hold off on ordering any of the network cables until you get things located and have a sense of what lengths you're going to need and then option three which is what some of our installers uh prefer actually is that we offer the network cables in long lengths like up to 25 feet of network cable uh that they can then trim to fit and make each cable a custom length for the application so uh depending on what installer you're you're going to or doing yourself any of those three avenues are of course acceptable um or whatever other route you may want to go about but um figure on anywhere from about three to four or maybe even five hundred dollars worth of of network cables in terms of budgeting and the way we pre-check our pricing calculators those excel spreadsheets is what's sort of a here's what's probably going to fit most applications each person may have a little bit different um but that's something that we're very flexible on on exchanging cables on so no no uh risk there and worrying that you got the wrong cables we're happy to swap those out and just to demonstrate uh these the skyview network is this dual redundant data and power network so instead and it uses a you know a d9 that is kind of traditionally used for old school cereal but it's not old-school cereal if we kind of use the wires in a different pattern um for those for those that are kind of engineering its dual redundant rs-485 so what's nice is that it's monitoring both of the data channels and so let's say you did have over time some you know like a rib or something that it that the wire phrase on as it cuts it you know knocks out one of the uh the the data channels skyv notices it throws up a warning you have no loss of system and all of the most of the major components so here's that tray we talked about earlier with atahar's and the air ink module and the engine monitor the battery but all of these you can see can i get the angle yeah there we go all of those are connected via skyview network so are all of the displays that's uh these two connectors there each display has uh two skyview network connectors what's nice about that is and so do all of the modules like the ap panel and the knob panel and what's nice about that is you can start daisy chaining things together so uh and then we all you have and most installations the complete installations like full featured installations we use one of these hubs which is just kind of a port nine pin connector for uh for that so guide your network i think we've gone over the majority of our topics i don't know if we have any more questions working in zoom or anything from facebook but we've gone over a lot of the common questions from certified customers yeah we're at 5 30 uh so we're happy to if anybody wants to raise their hand or and ask any question uh josh and jeff are there any other questions that are so far unanswered i think josh had one that uh he had mentioned i just can't seem to find it now josh you want to ask him that question yeah yeah it was cross-sharing d10a versus skyview yeah so there's an architectural thing there which is a a little bit based and a little bit the idea is that you want to have uh dissimilar and completely separate sources of instruments um and there are some other certification considerations which are a little deeply technical but essentially no they are completely separate they don't talk to each other at all which which does mean that uh should skyview experience a failure you still have the d and vice versa should the 108 experience a failure you still have skyview they're completely independent there's no relying of whether you know gps or uh the only thing they do share because air data has to come from your keto static lines if you have an airplane where the architecture is you have split off ketostatic lines that would maintain into your into your skyview installation if you had an airplane where you had say previously dual airspeed indicators that had completely separate pedos and plumbing and all of that that would maintain as well so that sort of goes along with the uh the system design in most small airplanes that we're going to be equipped in you're going to have probably only one airspeed indicator you now graduated to two that both use the same keto source any other questions from either the chat or people that are in zoom now be the time to raise your hand otherwise we'll wind it down oh there's one there we go just in time this will be my last one i promise do you happen to have any either like on that demo system we have or maybe a link you can point me to a visual of what the angle of attack looks like on the hdx yeah i can show you yeah absolutely so um i think it's in all of our brochures so if you just get any brochure from dining on certified uh you know dot com there's that but here's if i can get it up close no hopefully sorry one second so it's this so this is showing kind of a a kind of maybe econo cruise so this this bar fills up when the angle of attack is low and then it erases those green lines and then eventually end up with these kind of push chevrons that are first yellow and then red and then the little missing triangles start flashing red when you get to critical um it's a really neat display but frankly i almost never look at you also have audible alert that sounds it's like a geiger counter that uh but more of a pleasing tone so as you do your you know as you do your round out and flare you'll kind of get like a you know beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep and then right as you're about to touch down if you've calibrated it well uh it'll go to a solid tone so when i'm you know kind of in the final stages of a you know where i'm trying to actively manage energy i'm just listening i'm not looking at the display at all but that's what it looks like thank you all right well last chance for questions going once going twice oh there we go by the budget yeah i there was a question and chat and i and i don't remember the answer to it uh about about uh uh sky few uh failure modes like what if you lose uh what if your your pedo freezes over i know that there's some some things that skyview does that kind of generate instruments out of what it knows from gps and what it knows from whatever remaining sensors it has yeah there there aren't any and you'll hear this in the in the news probably if you're an aviation news geek because boeing is you hear a notion of like synthetic airspeed or something like that skyview doesn't do any of any of that um air speed air speed altitude is altitude so they're both they're prime they're only static based things the atahars is only coming from uh the attitude sensors the rate sensors uh there the thing that you'll hear people discuss is that the attitude indicator uh uses you know the solid state non-moving sensors and a bunch of math and algorithm and the algorithm uses air speed it's kind of a cross check to make sure that the attitude is right it's kind of part of the math equation so you need air speed uh for for the attitude to work properly if you had a frozen pedo and you lost air speed skyvy will revert to using gps just for the purposes of generating a valid attitude so a valid artificial horizon so if you did have a frozen pedo your airspeed indicator would reflect that uh you would still have there you know there are things i'll spotlight the panel you know so one thing you never want to do is you never want to have misleading information so where boeing for example has the notion of synthetic airspeed where they create this number out of well-understood aircraft parameters and other things and you know like half a million dollar inertial sensors you can't really do that at um in these sorts of in our in our avionics so if you do have a frozen peter this will go away but you still do have uh uh some information about speed true air speed of course is dependent on your your pedo as well but ground speed is and ground speed is just gps so you still have this now um this works for most purposes uh it doesn't work uh you don't want to be looking at this as as the the number to trust when you're on short final managing you know uh your energy because this is going to be wrong by the amount of wind that you have whether it's a headwind tailwind or crosswind but as a general sense you know in a small aircraft except when you're at altitude these numbers aren't usually drastically different um so so you still have some backup facility even if you had uh the failure of a of a pure or an isopeda or the failure of your heated pedo in in in a certified case does it does it no does it figure out that yeah i'm i've got a i've got a jeep well gps is only going to give you ground speed so but it doesn't so it it's like the like the uh steam gauge it doesn't say hey i've got a frozen pedo it just behaves in a way that instrument pilots can figure out because that's one of the things they've drilled on yeah that's that's true so the so the the termination of that would be larger your the existing things that you've learned as we mentioned before the system but not in certified form today does have the ability to use dual adaharz and in that case when you have discrepancies it can it can hint about that uh there isn't you know you you're you're actually prompting a feature that we have discussed which is you know is there a way to determine uh uh algorithmically or you know electronically that you have certain kinds of failures like an isopeda where your airspeed is kind of departing from truth by comparing the things like gps speed or taking into account recent accelerations you can imagine things to do that so we don't currently have that capability but you know it's things that we've we've thought about and can continue to thanks all right with that i think uh we thank you for coming today uh we do these kind of every week or two uh our virtual booth visits we advertise them on facebook and the they'll they are uh we send emails if you're not on our newsletter go to dine on avionics.com and sign up for the newsletter we also um list them on our website so we have a it used to be a flying event schedule right now it's an online event schedule we don't have the next one scheduled just yet it will probably uh focus on our advanced flight systems uh products as well as the uh the pre-built panels that they make which are called advanced panel that's likely to be the topic is there are there any topics that you guys want to hear us do in the future and if uh i'm just going to turn off the uh uh you can unmute yourself as of now if you just want to uh unmute yourself and if there's anything you want us to discuss in the future or idea for topics or things you want more or less if anybody has anything now's the time to let us know and if not you can email us as well you could you could uh reach kyle at the general sales desk that sales at sign on avionics.com i'm just mike dine on avionics.com and with that thanks for joining tonight and have a good fourth of july weekend you

Channel: Dynon Avionics

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Length: 100min 29sec (6029 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 01 2020