Bishop David K. Bernard “What Is Truth?” Forum Discussion

it's [Music] your spirit Lord be [Music] for these drive I need to know he said I'll never be me to seven singing you're singing over me me that's all I'll ever need that's all I'll ever need you're singing over me you're singing over me that's all I'll ever need [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] see [Music] [Music] yes [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] feels good in the house tonight I know that we have wonderful plans here tonight and we have a very planned in program service but that doesn't stop us here at the beginning for just a moment of throwing our hands in the air lifting our voice and allowing the Spirit of God to move over us in US and through us why don't we just enjoy the presence of God together producible why don't we just lift him up together hallelujah hallelujah thank you for what we feel here tonight God thank you for your presence showing up [Music] the spirit is here in his presence is here feel the power of God in this place and so I don't have any fear or worry or doubt and taking my petition to him with this very moment I don't mind bringing Israel in the Peace of Jerusalem to him and praying for America beau Kol Maxine Fletcher Becky Wilson Terrie Westbrook names it will be on the screen here in just a moment these pages of names that I hold and families that are dealing with loss this week the family of Bruce Davis that's the brother of Judy LeBlanc that services this evening at 7:00 at Bentley UPC the fame and Alice Morris and the father of Robert Morrison that visitation will be tomorrow from 5 to 10 p.m. Tuesday to 8 to 10 a.m. that service would be Tuesday July 30th at 10:00 a.m. at Mount Moriah Baptist Church in heissen let's remember those families that are dealing with loss let's remember the Howell family Bruce how our global missions director let's remember him he lost sister Diane this past week let's pray for that family Jared Lord of Kois work of course remembers here let's pray that God will be with them and strengthen bill and any other need that is represented here let's have that signified by the raised hand see the hands are lifted all over this house why don't you join somebody that has their hand raised make your way to somebody that has let's join together in faith [Music] these two are petitions to you what requests team hear our prayer tonight God here on planet earth every sickness every physical ailment emotional mental [Music] Meriter oh we bring those petitions to you here on pride hero [Music] Jesus name Jesus name hallelujah feels good in the house believe God just heard our prayer why don't you make your way back to your seats don't step across the aisles but do why don't you turn around and welcome somebody to church here tonight [Music] allelujah you can be seated when you reach your seats trying to save a little time so we can have as much time for discussion as possible Usher's if you don't mind making your way if you don't mind uh sirs do want to say welcome to all of our visitors that may be here tonight we were so very glad to have you here tonight and our what is truth night here at the POA we are so excited to have you here thank you for joining us you should have received a connect weekly visitors to our visitors in that connect weekly there's an attachment if you will feel that attachment out and take that to one of our two welcome centers as you leave Church tonight we have a gift for you we want you to know how happy and excited we are that you chose to be with us here at the P Lake and we welcome our visitors first-time all of our guests and special guests I'm very glad to have them it is time for our Sunday night tithes and offering and honor to be able to invest into the kingdom of God Lord Jesus thank you so much for this opportunity to invest into your kingdom the ties and the free will offerings of these great people help to support this local church but not just this church also around the world we were able to spread the gospel the truth the message around this world do to the people that give here tonight bless each and every individual that give we speak out in the name of Jesus uh sure as you can begin to receive the offering do be sure to pick up your copy of this week's connect weekly we'll keep you up-to-date on things that are going on here at the POA it will give you details of certain events that are taking place and what you must do to maybe get into those certain events so do make sure that you have your POA weekly let's remember back to school service will be Sunday August the 11th at 6 p.m. we will kick off the new year by sharing a night of worship prayer in ministry with our students teachers school leaders and faculty you will not want to miss that August the 11th so excited here tonight for what we have planned and prepared we were calling tonight what is truth and here with us his brother and sister Bernard what an honor to have you with us you were tremendous this morning in Word and in Psalm thank you so much for being with us I they met with us last night and I wanted them to know how much we appreciate and are honored by them being here this is no small thing they are very busy we have North American Youth Congress this week they have things that they have to be at over the next couple of weeks General Conference is right around the corner he's been in Louisiana for the past two weeks already so he's stuck here for a third weekend thank you so much for being here with us it's an honor to have you nt to you brother Bernard into the other pastors that are here why don't y'all begin to make your way up here take take your seats and we'll begin this discussion I do want to preface this by saying that what is truth and what we are discussing here tonight we are going ahead and assuming that we have done a decent job here at the POA and taught you what truth is Amen or have we done a bad job we are assuming that we have done a decent job of teaching you what truth is so tonight is not going piece by piece what we believe we are already taking at hand that we believe you understand what we believe tonight is about going through some difficult questions that many of you have received in teaching Bible studies that we have received in teaching Bible studies we are going to go through maybe some difficult questions that we that we get this is not breaking down piece by piece what we believe is apostolic men and women of God we believe that you know that and we know what we believe we're just going to go at it from some difficult questions that we receive when we are trying to Gus what we believe do you also want to mention that tonight is not about playing devil's advocate how can I figure out a question that stumps dr. Bernard what is the most difficult question in the Word of God that I can find that's not what tonight is about this is about difficult questions that we get when discussing our doctrine if we breeze through that and we get through that and everybody is satisfied with the answers then if we have some time left over we can dive in to maybe some of those difficult questions that really nobody has any answer to fair enough have we explained it well enough to what you will be receiving here tonight if we get to the end and we've gone through our doctrines we can dive into maybe some of them the interesting questions that we come across but tonight is about the truths that we hold so dear we we say that we are set for the defense of the gospel and our truth or apostolic doctrine that we believe in so tonight's not about teaching you our truth and doctrine but better equipping myself and all of you on how we can be better prayer being better be prepared to be set for the defense of the gospel and the truth that we hold so dear so I'm going to put this mic away and they're gonna come get this pulpit and I'll make my way to my seat and we can begin our discussion [Applause] we hope brother Bernard gets the chance to speak tonight every question that comes forth pastor's got the answer and he's got a good one good knee I told y'all want to sit down there what you doing Ricky's taking care of it gotta start somewhere folks all right we're going to try to make this as interactive as possible not just straight question after question after question if that's what it winds up being that's what it is but we are trying to make this as interactive as possible and looking forward to the night we call this night what is truth so just a question to sort of get us started according to 2nd Peter chapter 2 verse 9 God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance so a very simple question to get us started what is truth and why is it so debatable why why did God just not give us a clear-cut answer on here you go here's truth no need for debate no need for different doctrines and beliefs that other people hold dear what is truth and why is it so debatable oh that's a great question for our day because people actually debate whether there is such a thing as truth but I think if we believe in God then we need to believe in the Word of God we know there's some absolutes there is such a thing as truth and ultimately truth is defined by God himself he is truth and we only have a partial understanding of truth and whatever we say even in our interpretation of Scripture it should be with a basis of humility because while we have truth we can't say we know all truth now I do believe that the Bible is plain and meant to be understood the basics of salvation Christian living what God expects of us as humans that's clear but there are some difficult passages in the Bible in if that shocks you if you read 2nd Peter chapter 3 Peter himself said some of paul writing paul's writings have some things that are hard to understand so if the apostle peter had a hard time understanding some things then you're a good company but i do believe and maybe one of the questions is well why can't everything be simple and plain and i have two answers the first answer is the Bible when it was written in its culture in its language and it's time was basically plain but we live a couple thousand years away from the New Testament so to get back was what was obvious to them sometimes we have to do a little research so when it the parables talk about sowing of seed most of us are not really familiar with the sowing of seed so to fully understand that we've got to do some study now the second thing is things have to be spiritually discerned a carnal mind doesn't understand the things of God so while truth is plain if you don't approach it with an attitude of seeking and humility and trying to hear from God then you're gonna miss something so for instance I could take the word repentance and an atheist could study the word give me a definition but to truly understand what repentance means you have to engage your yourself in that you have to repent you know it's got it's got to be more than a head knowledge it's got to be a heart knowledge and so there are some things and so that leads to maybe I would segue into this part in Matthew 13 the disciples asked Jesus why do you speak in parables why don't you just be plainly and he gave them the interpretation of some parables and it's very interesting because I parable is a story that's easy to understand but it has a deeper significance if you're not really seeking and studying and praying you might miss it all you here's a nice story but if you seek out the truth then you'll understand the application of that parable and then that vivid story will be with you the rest of your life and you'll remember that life application so here's the ironic thing a parable actually hides the truth for those who aren't seeking it they just get a story but it reveals truth to those who are seeking it they get a powerful life lesson so truth is meant to be plain and understood but some things are deep and they take a studying to get back to the scripture and they take prayer and spiritual disarmament to understand what God is speaking that goes beyond the surface we're gonna dive into some of our questions now that was just to kick us off and we're going to go into baptism in Jesus name we have a question here and pastor Ryan is going to get to that and if Pastor you have anything you want to to say or talk about there of course it's it's open for you as well but pastor Ryan why don't you hit us with the first question okay no in Matthew 28:19 Jesus himself said baptizing them in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost and even though the examples of baptism after the cross or in Jesus name who's to say that it's wrong to baptize in the exact words of Jesus oh that's a very important question so let me give you a background before I just hit that hit on it's your whole philosophy of studying Scripture we are apostolic what that means is there are several ways that you could try to approach truth one way is just to take tradition that's handed down century by century by century and not being disrespectful as being factual the Roman Catholic Church the Eastern Orthodox Church they say follow the traditions follow what the Creed's say the council say what the Pope's say so you shouldn't try to go back to the first century and figure it out for yourself you should accept the receive tradition and then the Protestant Reformation came along in the 1500s to say wait a minute there's some things in the tradition of gotten off track we've got to reform the church so they protested the medieval church that's why the name Protestant and they tried to reform it that's why Reformation but we as Pentecostals actually go a step further we say we must restore the original church so we've got to go back to the first century and while we have Pentecostal traditions to the point is each generation cannot just accept what's handed down we've got to test it with the same experience and same message as the original Church now you might ask well why do you think that's better than these other methods and my short answer is that's how Jesus set up the church so when you accept Jesus as Lord you will accept the Apostles as the authority because Jesus himself did not start any local churches he did not write any books but he chose the apostles and he commissioned them to start the church so when I asked what did the Apostles preached what did they teach what did they practice I'm really accepting Jesus lordship because that's how he set up the church so with that in mind I know that's a long preface so we say okay let's take water baptism and you see that Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost he told that to the the Apostles the disciples who were there and then he left so you say okay what did they do you go to the book of Acts and every time there's a name or formula mention for water back - without exception it's the name of Jesus Christ and we can go through that Acts to the Jews acts 8 the Samaritans acts 10 the Gentiles right there that covers the whole human race because everybody here today you're either Jewish or you're partially Jewish like the Samaritans or you're Gentile you're not Jewish and there's a precedent acts 19 people who had already been baptized another way were rebaptised specifically to take the name of Jesus that's how significant it was acts 22 is the story of Paul's baptism and he said he was told to actually invoke the name utterly pronounced or called the name so when you read the book of Acts there's no question that the Apostles actually invoked in the name of Jesus Christ or in the name of the Lord Jesus and then there are at least five or six examples in the epistles that refer back to Jesus name Baptists where it's clear they're talking about being baptized into Christ baptized buried with him in Baptism and so forth so you have all this massive evidence that the Apostles invoked the name of Jesus and by the way it's interesting in the last 20 years the mainline scholars almost without exception both theologians and first church historians say the original formula was Jesus name backs we used to be one of the few people that actually said that now the mainline scholarship says that is correct now for us when you say this is conclusively what the Apostles did that's the end of the discussion but for most other theologians if you disestablished well that's what they did in the first century they will still argue well we've had developments since the first century maybe it's better to do something different today but we say no you know what the Apostles believe that's it so let's go back to this main thing so here you have this maybe seemingly a contradiction or dilemma Jesus says in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost the Apostles consistently baptized in Jesus name I've heard some say well I'd rather take the words of Jesus but the problem with that is Jesus didn't actually write that Matthew wrote it he was one of the twelve and Peter was standing right there listening to the same thing then on the day of Pentecost when Peter preached be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ Matthew was standing right next to Peter saying amen so if Peter got it wrong Mathew should have pulled his robe and said hey don't didn't you remember what Jesus said a few weeks ago what's wrong with you but he didn't so you you can't say I'll choose the words of Jesus because if we can't trust the Apostle Peter if we can't trust the book of Acts if we can't trust the epistles well how do we know we're ly what Jesus did say we're stuck you know the Bible is would be false and we don't even know anything so you could say well there are two contradictory methods well that's strange Jesus said do it one way and all the apostles did it the other way that doesn't seem very likely and so then you're left with well there must be a harmony and so here's where our apostolic belief comes in we say if that's how the Apostles understood it that's how we should understand if that's how the Apostles practiced it that's how we should practice it you can't go to say the fourth century and say they knew more than the Apostles knew or the 21st century and say they knew more that we know more than the Apostles we need to follow it what how they understood so now that leads that this is a long discussion but it it covers so many things so then you have to say when Jesus said in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost what did he actually mean and how could the Apostles walk away saying he meant Jesus name well let's say from a Trinitarian perspective a oneness of procedure or whatever if you say Father Son and Holy Ghost that's God right he says baptize in the name singular not three names of three persons but one name that would cover the whole Godhead now from our perspective from from the fourth century on there's been the teaching of the doctor of the Trudie so we hear Father Son and Holy Ghost or Father Son and Holy Spirit in our minds we automatically jump to the doctrine of the Trinity but go back to the first century one of the basic principles of interpreting Scripture you have to take it in the context the historical and grammatical context of that time so when Jesus said that in the first century nobody ever taught the doctor in the Trinity that word Trinity wasn't even used the work term three persons it's not even in the Bible so the Apostles that he was talking to her Jews all they knew was Deuteronomy 6:4 hear o Israel the Lord our God is one Lord so they couldn't have jumped to the conclusion oh he means to baptize in three names of three persons they did not know there was three persons now what they didn't know if you read say John 14 a few days earlier Jesus said you know Philip said you know I didn't really like to see the father Jesus said well if you've seen me you've seen the father the father dwells in me so when they said when Jesus said father they would have fought the God who's been revealed in Jesus when Jesus said son they knew he he was the son of God and then in John 14 he said when I go away I'll send the comfort of the Holy Spirit I will not leave you comfortless I will come to you the Holy Spirit is gonna be my spirit after I'm gone so when they heard father that's the God revealed in Jesus when they heard son that's the man standing before us when they heard Holy Spirit that's the spirit that he's going to send back to us so they would have made the connection he's talking about the name of Jesus now here's another way to look at it if you just read the context I'll paraphrase but if you read say Matthew 28:18 through 20 he says I have all power because I have all power I'm sending you as my disciples you're gonna evangelize you're gonna make converts you're gonna teach them all my Commandments and I'm gonna be with you all the way to the end therefore baptize in the name of three different persons that doesn't really fit what would fit is therefore baptized in my name so when you look at the context he's focusing on the name of Jesus then if you look at the parallel passages because we call this the Great Commission but this is not the only place that records it mark says in my name Luke says in his name the only way to reconcile those three different accounts the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit is my name or his name so what we conclude is that the Lord was saying I want you to baptize in my name and you might say well why would he say Father Son Holy Spirit because he was giving revelation the significance is not just it's just a human name of a man this is the name in which the Godhead is revealed this is the saving name and and I've had people ask me you know if that one verse wasn't in the Bible he'd be a slam dunk to baptize in Jesus name why did God let that one verse be in the Bible and it goes back to what I said about truth a few minutes ago well maybe God wants to weed out those who will seek and those who want but when you do seek and you say well why would Jesus say one thing in the apostles do all the other and you come to understanding that's because in Jesus dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily the father is revealed in him he is the son of God the Holy Spirit is Jesus coming back well now you have a greater revelation just than just getting baptized in Jesus name now you know who Jesus is and so it's not an obstacle if you will believe and study you will have an understanding so I said all that to say when you baptized in Jesus name you're actually fulfilling what Jesus commanded us to do I won't tell you what it doesn't get any better than that right there I was just very enlightening to me but I'm gonna bounce off a couple things if the apostles I'd rather take Jesus words than the apostles were my god robed himself in flesh and came to this earth and died on a cross and gave himself to what he gave himself to he would not have left this earth until the Apostles had an understanding of what he wanted done if he thought there was even a clue that they didn't have baptism right there was only 11 people there in 28:19 it what he wasn't speaking to a multitude there he was thinking talking about Matthew the others were there too it wasn't just me why didn't the others get up in acts 2 because they had an understanding of who he was and it's very important that you understand Jesus would not have left his whole clan with twelve Seles that didn't get it right and you say well why do y'all stress it and those of you watching about where the web because I know there would be thousands that will watch this that have not come to this revelation you ask us why we make it emphasis over baptism in Jesus name because anywhere since the cross that anyone was baptized it was only done in the name of the Lord or the name of the Lord Jesus Christ right so that's that's very important what do you believe in read baptism implement yes I believe in read baptism because acts 19 follow this because my daddy was proud of this this is one revelation I gave him that he didn't give me and he was proud of it and I don't know if he's got this revelation I may be getting me to give him mine down in acts 19 they said we have been baptized by John do we believe that's John the Baptist sure questioned who baptized Jesus these people have been baptized like Jesus had been baptized but they still got rebaptised it's a good point good point they have been baptized like Jesus but they still got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ so those of you here and those of you watching the greatest thing that could ever happen to you is baptism in Jesus now and it's not just a farmer it's not just water in spirit my dad put this so strong in me and in this church it's putting you in the Covenant in the Old Testament it was circumcision in Colossians he said the New Testament its circumcision but it's not of the outward man Colossians edits of the heart right so when you get in baptism in Jesus then he opened you up cuts off a foreskin of your heart throws that away and there your heart is given to circumcision of the heart by water baptism and your place in the Covenant of Jesus Christ the greatest thing you could do is not debated or say do I have to let me tell you you get to get baptized in Jesus name because every sin is washed away so those that have been baptized like Jesus with baptize got rebaptised to the name of Jesus it is one of the greatest things and greatest revelations that you can ever have and remember since the cross you won't sign any other people baptized any other way than in the name of the Lord Jesus you're starting to get me anointed but let me tag on to that that acts 19 the disciples of John he was alluding to think about this what was the difference between the two baptisms they were in water it would by immersion that's good required repentance he was a man of God it was the will of God John's baptism was the will of God for his time what was the difference the only difference was their new understanding of that's so good and calling the name of Jesus that's so good now in our Western culture this is a common thought well now that I understand it well God accepts my Maxima well if it's just the same I was already baptized father son holy goes well would that just be the same as long as I understand it that's the way we think but if you go back to the apostolic practice in the Bible faith is not primarily what you think faith is primarily what you obey so of me and my legal training I would accept this argument oh well now to understand it that's just as good but Paul said no I'm gonna baptize you a second time specifically to take on the name of Jesus yeah so here's what I would say if somebody's already been baptized some other way I'm not here to attack you or condemn you in a world of millions of people that care less about following the Lord if you took a step of baptism I appreciate that I think God appreciates that all I would say is don't be satisfied with the step you took formerly now that you understand more clearly who Jesus is and what the New Testament says don't be satisfied with your previous step but confess your faith by action by taking on the name of Jesus and by the way it won't hurt you taking on the name of Jesus isn't gonna hurt that's right nothing like it well I guess that's it with baptism with me he covered everything I just want to be baptized in Jesus name and if there were three I'd want to be baptized the name of the one that died for me that's right I think that's about it folks we can go home we only had one question on baptism in Jesus name and you know it's the most if there is any difficulty on baptism Jesus name that's the most difficult one that we would have to come across but if there's anything that has slam dunk in the Word of God it is baptism in Jesus name so we are going to move on to the infilling of the Holy Ghost the necessity of it and tongues is the initial sign of that and then we will conclude our round of questioning on the Godhead question number one after Peter preached the message of salvation in acts 2:38 thirty-nine we see that three thousand souls received his word gladly were baptized and added to the church and x2 and forty-one it would see according to just the scripture there that they believed and were baptized but did not receive the Holy Ghost or speak in tongues and there are maybe one or two other instances where that happens in Acts is believing and being baptized all that is needed to be saved the answer is there's a definite experience known as receiving the Holy Ghost the Holy Spirit and there is an initial side which is speaking in tongues no it's not the only sign the abiding evidence is the fruit of the Spirit the pursuit of holiness the Christian life so we're by no means elevating tongues as the only or it doesn't have saving efficacy in and of itself however what you need to understand about the book of Acts it is a history but it's not history like we write it's it's it's told for theological purpose it's told for teaching for doctrine and so the stories of Acts are just as much doctrine as anything else in Scripture but Luke has in the writer as inspired by the Holy Spirit he's following a well-known pattern core to the Old Testament whenever you wanted to establish evidence you had to have at least two or if possible three witnesses but once you've established a pattern you don't have to endlessly repeat it for example what would everybody agree that faith isn't necessary to be safe yes but actually faith is not mentioned in every conversion account would everybody agree that repentance is necessary certainly but actually most of the accounts have never even mention repentance why because if you got baptized they wouldn't have let you get baptized if they weren't didn't feel you repented well it's the same thing the Holy Ghost is mention of times but not every time because it's understood the reader of Acts will understand that of course they received the promise they followed the pattern I mean look at acts 2 here you have the hundred and twenty believers they receive the Holy Spirit they begin speaking in tongues which means speaking miraculously in language they never learn and that is what attracted the crowd that miracle so the crowds gather people from many different nations who had come to Jerusalem to celebrate the the day of Pentecost as Jews and they heard these Galilee and people are obviously mostly rural people farmers fishermen what-have-you speaking the various languages of their home countries Arabic and Latin and everything and so this is amazing so some they said amazing in amazement what does this mean how can these people be doing this others who didn't understand a particular language oh they're babbling they must be drunk so some were amazed others were mocking but the question was what does this mean it was specifically about tongues it was not generically about belief or baptism or repentance or the Holy Ghost it was about tongues and so the Apostle Peter stood up with all the other eleven apostles and I'll interject here this is pretty significant now if all you know is Acts - shame on you but don't deny the importance of Acts - because here you have all Twelve Apostles at the same place at the same time giving the answer of how to be safe there's no other place in the whole body like that that has that level of authority in that particular context so don't jump over it either so the Apostle Peter and all the other apostles standing with him said these aren't drunk as you suppose this is that which was spoken by the Prophet Joel in the last day says God I will pour my spirit out of all flesh now now watch carefully he says this is that when he said this what is he talking about tongues they were asking what does this mean this tongue he says this tongues is that well what what is that it's the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that Joel talks about so if you want to break it down he's saying this tongues that you're asking about means that was their question what does it mean means they've received the Holy Spirit prophesied by Joel now once that's established you don't have to say that every time because he's made the equation and so some people say well why do you Pentecostals say tongues of his initial sign where does it say right there in black and white tongues is the sign well we're we're thinking from the 21st century teaching method of Western colleges but if you go back to in history and even today the main form of teaching is through stories the Bible most of the Bible is taught through stories most of the Jesus words are it's taught through stories around cultures around the world today in history many times they didn't even have books what did they do they told stories that's how they communicate their values and beliefs from generation generation so a story historically can be the most effective way even a preacher a preacher gets up and preaches live line and you like it but when he tells a story everybody pays attention they get more from that story that teaches the point than just saying the point ok that's human nature so I have this imaginary conversation I go to Luke and say now Luke it would have been so easy if you would have just said everybody who received holy ghost day will speak in tongues why didn't you just say that or probably Luka wouldn't even understand the question what do you mean but after you explained to me say well I did say that but you know I'm Luke I'm nobody so instead of me telling you what I thought he said I told you a true story but the question is in the mouth of all these people the answer is in the mouths of the Twelve Apostles that's much more authoritative than you think I would say and that's what we say okay you don't have to believe what we say just listen to what Peter said Peter said it means they receive the Holy Ghost that's all I'm saying you see somebody speaking in tongues that means they receive the Holy Ghost and so we want you to pray until you receive the Holy Ghost but now let me be more specific so Peter preaches and they're asking what does this mean so that he preaches and it's interesting he explains what tongues mean but then he doesn't preach the rest of his message about tongues because really if you understand this statement tongues is not important in the big scheme of things it's only important because Jesus made it so but we don't go around preaching tongues we go around preaching Jesus have faith in Jesus repent of your sins believe on Jesus when you do that tongues come but we don't go around trying to teach people how to speak in tongues convince them to speak in tongues spend hours and hours of preaching about tongues we preach Jesus the power of the Holy Spirit so that's what Peter did and at the climax of it he preached the death burial and resurrection of Jesus they were convicted of their sins they asked what shall we do and they weren't asking how to get extra blessings they are asking how to be forgiven of their sin of crucifying Jesus and how can they accept Jesus as their Savior he said repent be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for their mission says you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost for the promises to you your children all there afar of as many as our Lord our God shall call so he basically said this is how to be safe now in that context can you really imagine the people that responded but they didn't receive that I think Luke doesn't feel I don't have to spell this out every single time I just told you in great detail the exact plan now I'm just telling you 3,000 receive the plan and notice it says they were added unto them it doesn't say added to the church specifically says added unto them who's them the people that spoke in tongues so if you take it literally it's saying that 3,000 were added to the hundred and 20 who spoke in tongues it would be almost impossible to imagine Peter saying now you're you know you need to receive the Holy Ghost but you know it might not happen and you're probably won't speak in tongues like what we did what you saw is different what everybody else received no the whole point of it is to say when you repent and when you're baptized when you believe you'll receive the very same thing you just asked us questions about so I think in the total context it's clear they did receive the Holy Ghost and it wasn't a different type of experience of what they just saw and what they were asking about and that would be almost beyond belief to say okay but you can't you can't receive what we received no the whole point was you can receive the same thing you just saw and so I would say it's definite that they did receive the Holy Ghost and they did have the same sign of speaking in tongues [Applause] our next question you you pretty well stepped all over it so good you may be able to just hit it quick sure move on we'll often go to acts 2 10 and 19 to show that people should speak in tongues as the initial sign of the Holy Ghost and filling an individual as a historian Luke reported what happened right he did not teach what should always happen if this is true and we took everything Luke recorded as a prescription for how the church is always supposed to believe and behave shouldn't we insist in other things as well such as Paul Kohner our congregation selling everything and given to the poor prayer cloths being sent to heal people etc yes and that's a good question so I will I did cover some of that but let's make it explicit so Luke was a historian but he was more a theologian it wasn't just writing history so you'd have knowledge it was you're not supposed to read Acts oh that's interesting that's interesting you know I'm glad to know that just like the Gospels weren't just written to give you a biography everything in there is for our instruction now Luke is very intentional he's showing you what the church was like because that's what we're supposed to be like and so I would argue that he is setting up a pattern especially like tongues remember he's working on evidence got to be proved by two or if possible three witnesses so he says ok I'll give you three stories in detail acts 2x10 and acts 19 which specifically say when you receive the Holy Spirit you will expect to speak in tongues so for him he's covered the bases that's absolutely anytime else you see about the Holy Ghost you're gonna assume the same type of pattern so I would say the consent what we would need to do what the Apostles consistently preached and taught in practice that is our example we should follow it no we do have to understand that every you know they live 2,000 years ago so if they rode donkeys to their place we don't we're not forbidden to use cars so we're not bound by the cultural circumstances so we obviously we understand that it's not that the cultural circumstances but it's the teachings the practices the doctrines so then you have to ask well is there anything of the early church that we aren't following and the first answer might be if we're not maybe we should but then you bring up the good example of in the early church it says they saw what they had and they had it in common and they they gave it to the Apostles well if you read that carefully and look at the whole New Testament it seems that was a temporary and partial custom so let's go back to those times these are these people from many different nations coming to to Jerusalem they receive the Holy Ghost they think the Lord's coming back in a few days you know Peter preached his signs at the end time the Holy Ghost so they're probably thinking man you know let's just stay in Jerusalem for thirty days and wait for Jesus to come back you know let's talk we don't have to take a two-week voyage back to our home let's just stay here until he comes back well now you got thousands of people stranded what are we gonna do I got a piece of property I'll sell it give it to the Apostles you take care of these of you well I got a house you know what the Lord's coming back I'll sell it but they didn't all sell everything because in acts four they did it again so they they must have still had houses and in acts five you know Ananias and Sapphira did something and and and they said we sold the property here's the total amount and Peter said is that really everything and they said yeah that's everything and of course they are lying and they were judged for that Peter said look it was your you didn't have to give it you could have kept whatever you wanted you should have just been honest you shouldn't have been a hypocrite and pretended so those examples show it wasn't like you might think that everybody sold everything pulled everything or camping out it was a process after the Lord didn't come back immediately and persecution came and and they were scattered well then you find say in acts in 1st Corinthians 16 Paul says well when you meet bring an offering on the first day of the week so obviously they changed so my point is even in the New Testament you can see how the circumstances changed so you can't set that up as a pattern when it's not a pattern but I think what you can say is there's a principle of sacrificial giving here so I would say the particularly three in Jerusalem was conditioned on the circumstances but the principle of unity taking care of one another sacrificial giving giving to the needs of the church that's what we follow and that's what we do even today so we are following that pattern the thing I appreciate about this church is the way you give to missions yes I think it is unbiblical II for an apostolic unbiblical for an apostolic to be blessed with the things of this life and not give to the poor right or to help missions right it would be a sad day if our number one goal is saving souls but a very close second this church is taking care of the poor if we don't take care of the poor and the less fortunate we're not the body of Christ and he was that was just perfectly said but if we are blessed by God and you don't have a partner in mission in your life and you're not supporting a missionary and you're not giving to God and you're not supporting the kingdom I'm not talking about POA or me and Mickey or this pastoral team salary I'm talking about the kingdom of God and you're not supporting missions I wouldn't want to be in your shoes at Judgment Day he does not want us hoarding money at the expense of not supporting missions given to people and helping the poor right that's why this church will remain a mission giving Church and that is our goal first and foremost in our giving is to make sure our mission given is there that's why today I was so thankful that we could say we give 16,000 to P I am just P I am a month and another thousand oh my god to name at 17,000 a month that you give somebody's given their offering and I thank you for a strong sitting right back there is the shelling us I get him most severe the shelters and the guns were two twins that came to this church and they used to work at Dairy Queen a little they would come in here and give 20 and 25 dollars a month when they wouldn't make you but 100 125 a month they would give it to missions but God always blessed just to go in and such a challenger and kept this church of going you give to God you be book of acts and give to God God take care of you and we'll be under wheat for if we don't Stuart this money right God would God wouldn't have to answer to God one day but I'm going to support missions and I'm going to give to the poor yes I'm not talking tongue I'm going to give to the poor right ever once a month we go to the streets and once a month we feed the hungry I thank God for that you give gifts here we feel this place up at Christmastime we got to keep doing those kind of thing that's why we run 20 buses every Sunday because we believe in going to get the pole amen we got to have a passion very thank you what it's all about we take care what's that line that mother used take care of those that nobody wants and God to give us the people everybody wants right next in John three Jesus instructed Nicodemus he said except a man be born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God so is born of the Spirit a separate experience than receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost evidence of speaking in tongues no it's the same if you if you look at John 3:3 you must be born again Nicodemus had a hard time understanding that so Jesus broke it down you must be born of water in the spirit so if you just look at that passage to be born again means to be born of water and the spirit so if you read the whole Bible the New Testament particularly you say where did that happen some people would say being more of the spirit being baptized as for they're two different things but if you do that read the New Testament there's no example of being born of the Spirit if there are two different things that's very good because if you read the book of Acts it talks about the gift of the Holy Spirit Spirit poured out filled with the spirit baptized with the spirit spirit came on them if you read that carefully all of those are equated so being baptized with the spirit say in acts one is fulfilled it says they were filled with the spirit so if you just trace it down all those descriptive terms are all equated with being baptized with the spirit so that means you're being born the spirit of something different Luke and the rest of the writers never gave you an example of that so really the only way to make sense of it if you let's take the accounts let's let's say Acts chapter 10 Cornelison has household the spirit came on them they spoke in tongues that's baptized with the spirit then they were commanded to be baptized he said who can forbid water that these should not be baptized as well as we so he ordered them to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus so here's an example of their entrance of the church who what are the two elements water and spirit that can't be a coincidence when Peter told Nicodemus you must be born of water in the spirit and then you go through the book of Acts and they're baptized in water baptized in the spirit baptized in water baptized spirit you can clearly see it's intentional that the water in spirit is water baptism and spirit baptism and I would say this there are two elements but it's one birth so that's why we teach water and spirit should go together many times people are baptized first and then later receive the spirit we say your experience isn't complete until you receive the spirit that that example is found with the Samaritans in acts 8 they were about ties in Jesus name but they prayed for them until they received the spirit or many times people since God honors faith wherever it is and he honors repentance you repent you can receive the Holy Ghost right there on the spot even though you're supposed to be baptized God's not gonna delay it when your heart is ready but if that happens you're commanded immediately to be baptized it's not considered as optional so there you have acts 10 Cornelius so time and time again water baptism spirit baptism are put together so that matches this one birth it's not two births it's one birth but it includes water and spirit well the only thing that fits that in the rest of the New Testament is water baptism in spirit baptism but we don't teach this mean in time sequence they can be separated by a few minutes or even a few months but that plan is for them to be united so if you've got one but not the other we're gonna pray with you until you complete it and the reason why you're going we're going to pray for you is because that lady sitting on that front row that's 93 is superwoman there's nobody like my mother but my mother couldn't have gotten me here by herself my father and my mother produced my birth you cannot have a child being just a female you cannot have a child definitely by being a male it takes the male and the female to produce a child and when he said except a man be born of water and of spirit daddy always taught me that's the positive and the negative on a battery you've got a positive and you got the negative it you have to have both of them to crank the car and when you look on that scripture that you must be with we gonna go to 28:19 of matthew and say that's a red letter word of Jesus don't stop it on just his red letter words John 3 and 5 is red letter words where he said except a man be born of the water and the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom that's not a Pentecostal thing that's not a UPC manual thing that's all junk study John 3:5 John 3 say though chapter John 3 it's a water spirit it's father and mother it takes a mama and a daddy to produce the birth you cannot so if it takes in the natural when we get the spiritual and say just one it takes both to produce a spiritual birth somebody said well what about believe you remember what Jesus said let's go I mean everybody's own red letters let's stay on red letters just a moment jesus said he that believeth on me as the scripture has said right so we believe on believe on the Lord Jesus Christ you shall be saved but we got to believe as the scripture has said to produce the salvation takes a mama and a daddy to produce a child and it takes water and spirit to be born again let me wait let me tag in on that just to show you okay so the day of Pentecost Jesus predicted in acts 1 you'll be baptized with the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit acts 2 when they described as a fulfillment says they were filled so those are obviously synonymous in that context and then Peter later preached you shall receive the gift he's not talking about something different so here we have in that passage to be baptized the Spirit is the same as being filled with the spirit same as receiving the spirit same as the gift of the Spirit and he also talks about it's the promise of the Spirit so there's 5 synonymous terms that's why if you're gonna find the birth of spirit is different where is it so then now let's fast-forward to 2 acts 10 Cornelius the spirit was poured out on them they spoke in tongues and Peter made it very clear that's the same experience of the day of Pentecost other words that's being baptized with the spirit that an acts 11 Peter is called to go back to Jerusalem to explain why did you go preach for Gentiles you know we don't do that we don't have fellowship with Gentiles and he said well God sent me you know and he said when when I was preaching the Holy Ghost fell on us and on them as on us at the beginning yes it's the baptism of the Holy Ghost right so he said who was I that I could forbid water that had that you know they they've received the Holy Ghost but in in acts 11 17 that he says God gave them the like gift as he did unto us who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ so he equates that experience of the Holy Ghost with everyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ that would be the birth of the Spirit so this speaking in tongues of Cornelius he says that's the same as at the beginning and that's the same as everyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ which then ties back to what pastor Anthony said jesus said if you believe on me as the scripture out of your belly shall flow rivers of living to art this spake he of the spirit which they that believed on him should receive which is John's explanation so the same job that recorded be born the spirit recorded Jesus saying if you believe you'll receive the spirit Peter picks up the same language and says you know what they just spoke in tongues they received the same Holy Ghost as we did when we believed on Jesus now another little interesting point you might ask for where did Peter come of that message actually it's only what Jesus taught Jesus was the one that said repent and believe the gospel mark 1:15 Jesus was the one who said he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved mark 16:16 Jesus is the one who said in John 7 39 if you believe on me you'll receive the spirit so when Peter preached those three elements he was just picking up what he'd heard for three years thank you we've covered baptism in Jesus name the infilling of the Spirit evidence of speaking in other tongues we are going to move into God is one oh sorry y'all handled it pretty well later you want to say anything mother you want to say anything oh don't I just wish that every Church in the United Pentecostal church international would have dents in their church well mother fortune enough we have the web and they can have it on the web if there you go so you show it in their church marshal anything you want to add y'all taught it Larry anything you want to add anybody else want to add anything okay good we're getting along pretty good okay God is one and don't want anybody to take this out of context or anything that we believe but it is a question that is being asked and would like a good answer from my knowledge and I'm sure others is debating over a oneness point of view and a Trinitarian point of view just semantics if we both believe in one God if it is just semantics then why do we make it such a big deal it's not just semantics now let's be clear we believe in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit we believe God is our Father he created us we believe Jesus Christ is the son of God which if you study scripture the term son of God in its fullest sense mean God is manifested in the flesh not just he's a man he's God manifests in the flesh and not just a spirit only but God in the flesh and we believe in the holy spirit this the presence and power of God and we believe Father Son and Holy Spirit are three important terms that signify one God they're not three different personalities they're not three persons they're not three centers of consciousness when you go to heaven you're not gonna see three bodies but these are three roles for them and they're very important as one is people we shouldn't minimize these roles why because they're necessary for our salvation let me explain only as a true human could die for our sins could take our place shed his blood so Jesus had to be the Son of God in order to die for our sins but in order for the son to be born no human could do that God had to be the father of that baby born in the womb of the virgin and then our salvation is not just because of what happened 2,000 years ago it has to be applied to our lives today how does that happen God comes to us by his Spirit so God is not eternally three persons named father son in spirit but God has operated in our lives as Father Son and spirit for the specific purpose of redeeming us or saving us from sin so what that is a background three persons but one God is would be a distortion because it interjects this idea that in the nature of God there is some distinction or separation or division so I say it's more than semantics no I will hasten to add there are many people who may talk in Trinitarian language but essentially have the same concept as we do so that might be semantics in some cases but I do think it's important for here some for practical reasons first of all who are we praying to we need to know for sure are we praying to one are we praying to three when we get to heaven who are we gonna see are we gonna see one are we gonna see three that makes a difference who is our faith in and the significance of the name of Jesus we need to understand because when we pray in Jesus name we expect demons to be cast out we expect people to be delivered and healed receive the Holy Spirit but if the emphasis is on father said in the Holy Spirit then the name of Jesus is not magnified and we don't receive from God what he wants to give us so there are a lot of practical reasons why we need to know the answer to this question and I would say you know some people say well you're just being divisive you're just causing confusion contention why don't you just ignore this subject here's what I say if there's any message in scripture that's emphasized is that God is one that stated hundreds of times so if I'm gonna be a preacher and teacher of the Bible I don't have the right to pick and choose what I want I've got to preach and teach what the Bible says I've got to emphasize what the Bible emphasized I can't ignore that so I would say people who who are teaching a different way they're the ones that are causing the confusion I'm not trying to cause any contention division confuse nor debate I'm just trying to go back to the original and if everybody would do that then it would be just a matter of semantics we would all believe the same thing but I do believe this is a key message it's a foundational message that we cannot minimize and I can go into that more but you know the classic statement of Deuteronomy 6:4 hear o Israel the Lord our God is one Lord and then in Mark chapter 12 a scribe came to Jesus and which is the first commandment of all and Jesus said in mark 12 28 through 31 the first of all the commandments is hear o Israel the Lord our God is one Lord thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart soul mind and strength so if Jesus said this is the first thing you've got to get right well I think we've got to talk about it we've got to teach it we've got to preach it and notice both Deuteronomy and Jesus they connect it you've got to believe in one God but then you've got to love him with all your being so it's not just intellectual we're not just debating intellectual philosophical things the purpose is who do we worship who do we love who do we follow who do we believe in who do we pray to it's the most practical thing of all of knowing who your God is and knowing his name [Applause] simple won't call it simple we'll just call it maybe the most prominent a question that we receive is oneness believers just a easy one to jump into to sort of get us going here on the oneness of God your explanation of Genesis 1:26 let us make man in our image after our likeness okay let's look at Genesis one of the creation account God said let us make man in our image and our likeness no that's the use of a plural we have to ask what does that signify most actually scholars today will say you can't read a Trinity back into that your Old Testament scholars even will say it's not fair to read a Trinity because the ancient people are thinking in those terms if you try to read a Trinity you immediately run their problems let me just start with a simple thing whose God is God the Trinity so the Trinity said let us make man well who's the Trinity talking to always say no that's the father so the father is more God than the other two so you're really saying when you see God you really mean the father well that's skewing the doctrine of Trinity so if you want to say well the father was speaking to the son then you can ask well the son is born of a woman the son is God men affirm the fest in the flesh was was Mary back there too you know so but let's so let's approach this several different ways look at the next verse which is the fulfillment so God created man in his own image it switches back to the senior and you look at the man he created Adam well you might could say Adam his body soul spirit mind will etc etc at the end of the day he's one person with one personality and as such he is the image of his creator so that right there tells you God is not a Trinity because Adam is not a Trinity Adam is one person reflecting his creator okay and the if you go to another passage in isaiah 44:24 it says god stretched out the heavens alone it he says it in the first person i stretched out the heavens alone and the earth by myself so God himself says when I create everything I did it alone and I did it by myself so what I'm suggesting is it really isn't appropriate to try to add a second person as a preexistent being when the Bible is very clear that God did it all alone and by himself no that still leaves the question why did he say let us and I will give you I'll give you four options you can think about what you like the first one I think is the plural of deliberation we see this in English if I sit down and say let's see what am I gonna do today let's see literally let us see who am I talking to myself it's deliberation so could it be when God created the universe it says God said let there be light God did this God did that God did that when it comes to humans he slows down and he says we're gonna think about this we're gonna plan this and then he creates Adam from dust and then he creates Eve from the side of Adam now of course God can do everything instantly and all that but it's trying to speak in human terms to say when God created us he thought about it he planned it it wasn't just oh I'm throwing this out throwing that out I'm having fun this know this was special this took his personal time and you know care so I think what he says let us make man that's his way of saying this is really important to me I'm gonna deliberate about this I'm gonna plan this I'm gonna make sure this is what our really want that's the deeper significance no I another point which you can see in place of the Bible Ezra Nehemiah so there is what's called the royal plural plural which also we have in English that when a royal person speaks they sometimes speak we like the the Queen of England famously said when she gets offended we are not amused that doesn't mean we and all my friends it means I the queen of England am not amused you don't want to hear that okay now I asked I was in Jerusalem some years ago and I asked a head of a Jewish yeshiva which is a Bible College I asked what do you think and he told me what the common thing is he says no the angels were present at creation we know that because job tells us that the angels are not creators but they were present God they were you know God recognized them as also being created in the image of God and he what doesn't do anything without telling his friends his associates so this was God's Way of telling the angels we're gonna do this so that's the Jewish point of view I have one final thought in reply to the New Testament and maybe this is it's a little I like the simple idea of deliberation but I also like this thought of prophecy so when God created Adam Eve did he know they were gonna sin I think yes well they by their sin they separated themselves from God they thwarted his purpose why did he even bother creating them when he knew it was gonna be a failure because the Bible says the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world now there was not a lamb sitting in heaven there was not a human being sitting in heaven but in the plan of God if I can use it this way God says you know what I'm gonna go ahead and do this even though I know they're gonna sin and I know they're gonna mess it up I've already got a plan to restore them it's still worthwhile to go ahead because I will still have a people I we'll still have a church I will still have humans throughout eternity why because of Calvary the cross the Son of God could it be that God was looking forward to time not to someone sitting by side saying hey let's do this but looking to that man hanging on the cross and saying for this creation to be fulfilled there's gonna have to be a recreation let us make man a prophetic utterance to Jesus Christ on the cross saying we're gonna do this no matter what the devil does we're still gonna have a plan let us make man fabulous right there that's gent young let your brain go turn the air up limit people are cold in here I've seen coats come out in sweaters and think of a phrase and give us a little warmer to continue the more common tell you why we're not shouting if we shot and they'd be just right to continue the more common questions that you have with Godhead one of my favorite scenes and above all is when Jesus is praying in the garden and then he prays on the cross explain that a little bit please he prays on the cross and of course the climactic moment my god my god why is that forsaken me what we have to understand is very important Jesus was an authentic human being just like us in every way except for sin now when I say except for sin when God created Adam and Eve he did not create them in sin he created them in innocence so actually the original human nature that God created was not sinful so Jesus didn't come with fallen human nature he came with the original human nature so you might say he was more truly human than we are we're flawed humans he's perfect human so what's important understand is Jesus went through everything that we go through except he never sinned Jesus had had the same type of relationship with God that we would accept he never needed to repent or be born again geez everything that we could say to God Jesus had to be able to say if he couldn't then he wasn't really human he couldn't take our place he couldn't be our substitute so for example on the cross the last thing he said was father into thy hands I commend my spirit I'll think about this when we die could we say that yes well then Jesus had to be able to say that because he couldn't be less of a human than we are now on the cross when he cried out my God my God why is there forsaken me that's actually a prophecy from Psalm 22 David felt that of course it foreshadowed David's son the Messiah but David really felt that himself to some extent did God actually forsake David no but he felt that don't raise your hand but have you ever felt God if you're safe can you your prayers are hitting the ceiling falling back down on the floor God didn't really forsake you but that's the way you felt I believe that on the cross Jesus was still God manifest in the flesh I don't believe the spirit left him and he just still lived because then he would be just a man at the very moment of the supreme act of salvation I believe God was still in him but here's the important thing God did not shield him from the human suffering so he grew thirsty can God be thirsty no but that doesn't mean God left him it just means God the spirit that was still in him did not protect him from feeling thirsty and here's the thing Jesus was a perfect human he never felt sinned he never felt alienated from God he never felt guilt or turmoil like we feel but on the cross for the first and only time in his life he actually felt like a sinner he felt like he was in the lake of fire now I feel that's the true sacrifice because think about it if it was in addition to physical death because you know we're still unless the rapture takes place we're gonna die physically Jesus did not protect us from at least having that experience but what he did do for us that we will never have to do we will never go to the lake of fire we will never know what it's like to be a hundred percent abandoned by God but on the cross Jesus took that ultimate human experience of being completely forsaken by God as if he were in the lake of fire and from that experience my God my God why hast thou forsaken me that doesn't mean he wasn't God it means he was a real genuine authentic human being who took everything we could ever possibly experience now if you say well does that mean Jesus was praying to himself I say no you're missing the point Jesus was unique he was above God and human at the same time the best way to explain it you can't say one person was praying to another person if you do that then one person is inferior the other person is superior one person isn't really God the other person is really God and just for fun I'll throw this out when Trinitarians when they pray they say if you pray to one member of the Trinity you're praying to the whole Trinity I remember hearing question do we need to divide our prayers equally to each person and the answer was it doesn't matter there's no jealousy just pray to whichever one they all receive the same Lord and that's an interesting discussion to have but here's the theological point technically then Jesus is a human who's praying he's praying to the whole Trinity the human son was praying to the eternal son so now he got two sons you got a son who died the son who couldn't die the son who was born a son who was returned a son who was pray a son who was receiving prayer so superficially it might sound what will they eat as the explanation is one person praying to another person actually that is an explaining thing makes it worse because now you have three divine persons so you've got to explain six relationships how does the father relate to the Sun the Sun relate to the spirit the spirit relate to the father the father relate to the man the son relate to the man the spirit relates to the man it makes it worse the correct explanation which and I'm not trying to be dismissive but I'm trying to use this humor to our absurdity to show the real point both Trinitarians and oneness people struggle with Jesus prayers why because it's the Incarnation because it's unique in human history how can you understand that God came as a little baby how do you understand that Mary had God in her arms how do you understand that Mary that God was a five-year-old how do you understand that God was a teenager how do you understand that God was a 33 year old man that died on the cross now we know we died according to flesh not the spirit but my point is the Incarnation itself we can't wrap our heads around God coming in that way so the prayers of Christ have nothing to do with different persons in the Godhead they simply have to do with the mystery of the Incarnation how could Jesus as a man at the same time be God so the best way to explain the prayers of Christ is simply this jesus prayed as an authentic human being just like we pray just remember at the same time the Spirit of God was fully incarnated in him now by analogy we pray even though God's Spirit is with us you know we don't we feel God's Spirit is here in us but yet we pray to God in heaven right because that's relationship now obviously we're not God I'm not equating us Jesus but I'm saying if we as humans knowing that God's Spirit is in us can still pray as if God is in heaven as a relationship well then Jesus Christ being just as much human as we are could pray to God even though he was God incarnate in fact the shocking thing would be of Jesus didn't pray because then he wouldn't be a human being so he prayed because he was a man in john 14 jesus has been talking about the comforter and the question is presented to him how is it that you will manifest yourself unto us and Jesus responds in verse 23 if a man loves me he will keep my words and my father will love him and we will come unto Him and make our abode with him how can we explain his wording there we will come unto him if God is one we we know let's let's think about this all these questions there's a common theme and I'm not trying to reduce it to absurd to your Mauch but I'm trying to take if you use the Trinitarian explanation or multiple persons and you take it to its logical conclusion it leads to a contradiction or absurdity so that's a dead end so then you have to ask what is the proper thing so let's look at the context if you read John 14 in its entirety Jesus says I'm the way the truth to life I'm the only way to the Father in fact if you you know you've seen the father well of course they're thinking you know when have we seen the father in Phillips says and of course I'm paraphrasing Lord if you'll just actually show us the father one time we'll be happy yeah I don't think we've seen the father you say we have it I don't remember seeing him now if the father was a different person from Jesus what Jesus should have said you would think is okay I'll give you a vision or okay wait to get to heaven I'll make sure you get to see him but he didn't he rebuked him and said you've if you've seen me you've seen the father how can you say show was the father if you can't believe the words that I say look at the works that I'm doing in other words you've seen me calm the storm whoo control of nature you seen me feed 5,000 with five loaves and two fishes who has creative ability you see me walk on water you see me forgive sin who can forgive sin but God you seen me heal the sick and raise the dead by my own Authority not by invoking someone else all these things you see me do only God could do now God is a spirit nobody can see God's Spirit the only way you could see God if as if he would manifest himself in some way so what do you think you see all the things I've done you are looking at God in the only way humans could look at God manifested in the in the flesh the father is in me and he goes on to say the words I speak are not on myself but the father dwells in me is doing the works and so notice and I'm getting to the answer here but notice he's not just how about Union he's talking about identity some people say well you know husband and wife they're two persons they're one flesh so you know God and Jesus are two persons but they're one flesh he's talking about more than that okay I've been married for 38 years my wife this year we're one flesh but we are two persons I can't say if you've seen me you see my wife that's pretty obvious and I'm not gonna say it might be true but I'll never admit it the words that I speak to you I speaking out of myself but my wife that dwelleth in me she do a thoris so there's a union as close as two persons can possibly be but it's not identity Jesus was not merely speaking of Union he was speaking of identity okay then he says I'll send another comforter if you stop right there anything okay another person but then he explains you already know him because he is with you the difference is he will be in you so right there he said not another person but the same person you already know who's that Jesus so what why do you say another because another form instead of with you in you instead of flesh spirit and then to wrap it off he says in verse 18 I will not leave you comfortless I will come to you so now he plainly says when the Spirit comes that's me and what's really interesting if you study Greek you look some other translations their word comfortless is from the Greek word or fanos which means what it sounds like orphans I will not leave you as orphans I will come to you well if he's not gonna let us be orphans what is he saying I will be your father so when you receive the Holy Spirit and you'll know that's me and when you receive the Holy Spirit you will know that's the father in you so now when he says we will come and make our abode the father in me is he saying you're gonna receive two spirits so if you take that literally in a multiple person sense you would have to say well we're gonna receive two spirits and if there's a Trinity we're gonna receive three spirits so first I got to get the father then I got to get the son then I got to get the Holy Spirit I don't really know any Trinitarian that thinks they received three spirits and if you can separate them that way you you you should be able to say well you folks over here you're feeling the father and you in the middle of you're feeling the son you were over here you're feeling the spirit can you make that distinction no so here's the point when you receive the Holy Spirit you receive the father and the son so when he says we will come he's not saying we as two persons will come he says when you receive the one Holy Spirit you're gonna receive the fullness of the Godhead working in you father and son now what does that mean when we say the father we think of God the creator of the universe so think of it this way when I'm filled with the spirit the same spirit that spoke the words into existence is working in my life isn't that amazing but not only that the same spirit that came in flesh as Jesus Christ the Son of God and that spirit with him cause him to humble himself to Oh be be obedient to suffer you know we think of the Creator the Father we don't think of oh he's humble or he's sacrificial or he's giving you know we just think of might and power but we think of Jesus on earth we think of him as humble obedient sacrificial so what Jesus is saying when you receive not free spirits are not even to spirits when you receive one spirit the comforter the Holy Spirit you have both the father and the son at the same time the power the creative power of the universe is working in you but the the humble submissive spirit of the son is also in humans so you can do whatever God has called you to we will come to you but in actuality the literal application is the one spirit of God I believe you just answered my next question okay so I'm gonna get sake of time as well I'm gonna defer to Pastor Gentry just to read the questions so you would know it it would have been when the Apostle Paul used the word and in his greetings to refer to the Father and Jesus what did he mean for example Romans 1:7 to all that being wrong beloved of God called to be Saints grace to you peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ you know I think I will add to this because it's very instructive and by the way these difficult questions are difficult if you come from having been taught the Trinity for thousands of a thousand years but notice once you dig into it these become revelations of truth so don't look at them as problems or obstacles yes they are questions that are hard and legitimate but they force us to understand the deep things of God that we would miss so don't be superficial that what we we just one is we learn from Jesus forget all that stuff and fathers are a little just just worship Jesus no you need to understand this because it's scriptural but it leads to a greater understanding of truth so these scriptures are our friends not our enemies okay but when he says Grace and peace from God our Father more Jesus Christ think about this if there's a Trinity why is he ignoring the third person so to be saved you got to know two of them but not three of them that isn't fit but here's the point to be saved you must believe in the one true God absolutely that's necessary but not sufficient the Jews of that day that rejected Jesus they believed in one God the Muslims today they believe in one God they would say we believe in the one God the Father but he's saying grace and peace salvation comes to you not only from the one God the Father but also specifically through Jesus Christ the Son of the Father who is God manifested in the flesh to be our Savior you must acknowledge both the Father not as two persons but you must always the one God but you must also acknowledge the one God's plan of salvation through Jesus Christ because all of grace and peace doesn't just come because God created you it comes because Jesus Christ died for your sins grace and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ it's great in it I learned I learned a lot of what I know teaching some of you taught me from Sunday school another but a lot of things I learned was going with my father and mother when I was just a kid and then witnessing to people and I will never forget mother we were at one place when I was a kid and somehow we got on miracles and we got on on the Red Sea party and the individual said it really didn't happen said that that was just knee-deep water and mother said well that's really a greater miracle to me then because the whole of Pharaoh and his army drowned in knee-deep water so I will never forget and I used this when Larry and I talked I will never forget when Daddy used this illustration when I was just a kid if we have the father and the Son and the Holy Ghost the Bible says that the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary and she conceived so if the scripture is correct this would make him the father of this one running around on this one so that's what daddy said if the Holy Ghost overshadowed and it can see then the Holy Ghost is the father if we don't understand that God had to take on flesh no man has seen God at any time to be seen and reveled he had to take on flesh but he was one God now that's just what daddy told me we uh we told brother Bernard that we would try to wrap it up somewhere around 8:00 so we got about 20 minutes left if that's ok with y'all and and of course you if you have a few more minutes with love to share just a couple more questions what does scripture mean and this is a very very common one that we receive what description mean when it states that Jesus Christ sits on the right hand of God that's a great question ok let's first start God is a spirit right God is omnipresent I mean he's everywhere at the same time so what does it mean to be on God's right here where's God's right here on this side of the platform or is it on that side of the platform where where's God's right hand well what we're saying is that is a symbolic expression you do not think of it as literal the Bible talks about heaven as God's throne earth as his footstool if you go to the North Pole are you gonna see the feet of God sitting there no that's symbolic of God's sovereignty his power so whenever we start talking about God as a spirit we've got understand we're using human descriptions to describe spiritual reality we can't reduce God to a giant human so X is the same passage X is 15 6 when when after Israel you know cross the Red Sea God destroyed the armies of Pharaoh drown them in the Red Sea Miriam and and Moses and all the people of Israel rejoicing X is 15 6 died right hand of God is glorious in power by your right hand you destroyed the enemy do we think there was giant right hand not the left hand but you know it was the right hand it came out of heaven scooped them all up and killed them no it's talking about God's miraculous deliverance all throughout the Bible now this is true in Hebrew it's true in Greek and it's even true in English we say the right hand man that speaks of power to Authority the reason is very practical no disrespect to left-handed people but 90% of people right-handed so for most people you throw with your right hand you fight with your right hand but if you try to fight with your left hand you're gonna lose so the right hand is the symbol symbol of power David said in the Psalms the Lord is at the right hand of the poor the Lord is at my right hand do we mean a body of God is constantly walking around no it's symbolic here's another great example Matthew 26 64 Jesus is on trial before the high priests and he says hereafter you will see the Son of man coming at the clouds at the right hand of power now what does that mean when Jesus comes back in the clouds are we gonna see two persons in the clouds and Jesus is gonna be on the right hand no we're only gonna see Jesus but the point is he will be in the position of power and authority while he was standing there arrested before the high priest he was humble he was he was in change he was a prisoner he was just saying the next time you see me it's gonna be in the clouds at the right hand of power here's another example in acts 7 when Stephen was stoned act 6 7 and he says I see the glory of God in the Son of man standing at the right hand of God did he see two persons no he didn't say that in fact if you read to the end he says Lord Jesus receive my spirit if he saw two persons he ignored one of them and I'll also ask where was the third person why didn't he see all three of them but that's not the point what he was saying is this okay before the crucifixion the death burial resurrection ascension Jesus looked like an ordinary man now to the eyes of faith I'm sure you could discern something unique about him feel something but just to pass him I look at him just ordinary man at the Last Supper when he was talking about someone betraying it John was leaning up his against his breast who's he - who are you talking about very close intimate but in Revelation when John the same John who's his best friend leaning up against the breast saw the resurrected Christ what did he do he fell down his feet as if he ER dead what's the difference this is your friend whatwhat's going on he saw them in power so when Stephen said I see the Son of man standing at the right hand of God what he was saying it wasn't like Jesus when he was on earth I see him in power and glory all the power and authority of the invisible spirit is invested in him so the right hand simply means this this Jesus who is a real man has been exalted to the highest position of authority so what that means for us is that Jesus is our Savior he's not just a man not just a prophet we're falling around he the invisible Spirit of God has invested him with all power and authority here in the position as king of kings and Lord of lords and he can meet every need so it's not a position of two bodies side by side it's Jesus Christ as the revelation of God in all his power and authority that is some of the best teaching I've ever heard and to break it on down we got a couple more questions but I have one for you one question when you get to heaven how many gods will you see no I done y'all that's just something I want you to ponder when we get to heaven when you ask anybody and maybe they can't understand everything you've got to ask them when you get to heaven how many gods you'll see because when you get to the last book of the Bible there's only one sitting on the throne and if you can get them to say 1 then here's the follow-up question who is it who's that one you've answered just about even these next two but just for fun is Jesus just a mediator between God and man or is he truly the mighty God in Christ he is mediator and the mighty God now here at 1st Timothy 2:5 there's one God and there's one mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus now I want you to notice something when it says there there is one God that's the same teaching as the Old Testament here or Israel the Lord is God God is one more the New Testament can't contradict the old there's no different idea of God but what's new about the New Testament the one God came in flesh to be our Savior that's what's new so here's what it's saying there's one guy but our sin has separated us from from God so we need a mediator God could not become sinful in order to have fellowship with us we could not make ourselves holy to have fellowship with him so it seems like there's no way to bridge this gap but what we could not do God did by coming in the flesh Jesus as a human is actually God manifest in the flesh so in his own body he unites deity and humanity he is the meeting place he is the reconciliation the oh ship of deity and humanity so when we believe on Him and obey his gospel we're restored to fellowship with Jesus but by being restored to fellowship with Jesus we're restored to fellowship with God in Christ so Jesus is the mediator not to bring us to some person other than himself but second Corinthians 5:19 to wit that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself Jesus is the bridegroom we are the bride he's not bringing us back to somebody else he's bringing us to himself Ephesians 5:26 that he might present to himself a glorious church without spot or wrinkle so read it carefully there's one god but there's one mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus so it says according to the flesh he becomes a meteor now again I like to push the alternative to the conclusion let's say they were two divine persons they're co-equal so you got the father up here and you got the son the father is separated from us because of our sins so the son comes to be the meteor but wait a minute if they're co-equal how can the son be the mediator he's just as much God as the first he's just as much separated from us by sin we would have to have a mediator get back to the son so the point of that is to say it's not a second divine person who could be a mediator it's a true human being who would be the mediator so looking at his deity we say Jesus is God looking at his humanity we say he's the mediator the son of God does that sound contradictory we'll look at Isaiah 9:6 for unto us a child is born unto us a son is given but that child is more than a child that son is more than a son he's also the mighty God the everlasting father the Prince of Peace he's God and son of God and if you think that's too much of a stretch look at the tabernacle plain in the book of Hebrews who's the Lamb that sacrificed for us Jesus who the high priest who offers the lame Jesus when you go in the holy place who's the light of the world the the lampstand jesus who's the bread of life to show bread jesus the incense that's offered go behind the veil by by the way what's the Veil the veil is his flesh who's the mercy seat Jesus who's the blood sprinkled on the mercy seat Jesus who is the heavenly judge that receives it Jesus some people say where Jesus only no or not Jesus only where Jesus everything in one last question okay Hebrews 1 1 through 2 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in times past unto the father's by the prophets hath in these last days spoken unto us by his son whom he hath appointed heir of all things by whom also he made the world's and go ahead and read verse 3 I don't have it you don't have it he's the brightness quoted he's the brightness is the brightness of his glory and the Express image of his person so let's take a look at this again if there were two divine persons from eternity what do you mean in these last days he's spoken by the son okay what it's saying God has spoken and revealed himself in many different ways through the prophets through the Old Testament but in these last days he gave the supreme revelation his son it says by whom he made the world's the world that Greek word is I own us where we get Aeons literally mean ages and that would go back to what I explained before although God did not come in flesh until the fullness of time God depended on his incarnation from the very beginning when God say Noah it was based on the cross when God saved Abraham it was based on the cross every age was created through the Son of God not as if the Son of God was sitting back there as a separate person but God put all of his plans in dependence on the time when the Sun would be manifested but notice the Sun is the brightness of his glory God's glory and according to Isaiah God will never give his glory to someone else and the Express image of his person now modern translations say substance is the greek word have pasta psa's but look at it literally in in the original English the Sun is not a second person the Sun is the Express image of God's person and what's an interesting historical point that Greek word hip hasta system when the doctrine of the Trinity was developed in the 4th century when they put it in Greek they said God is three persons the Greek term is hypostasis or plural hypostasis so the very definition of the Trinity is contrary to the words because Hebrew says the Sun is God's apostasy Trinity says God has three apostasy so it's just if you're interested in history or theology it's directly contradicts so what Trinitarians have to say say say well the writer of Hebrews was using that word in a different meaning than the way we use it in the fourth century so it's basically saying you can't use the words of the scripture the way the scripture meant in order to prove that occular Trinity but to go back to the main point the Sun is the visible image of the invisible God that's Colossians 1 5 115 and also 2nd Corinthians 4:4 and also 4:6 the glory of God is revealed in the face of Jesus Christ so when God created the world's by the Sun it was in dependence on the Sun with the Sun in view the Sun is not a different person the Sun is the revelation of God's person God spoke in many different ways but the greatest revelation of all we when he came himself praise God it's 7:55 we've made it through all of our questions and I hope for those of you deterrent questions in we hope your question was answered we had to take those that you know made the same synopsis maybe warded in a different way we tried to encapsulate all of that in our questioning here if you go can I can I just add a little commercial at the end for those who are interested if you want more I've written a book called the oneness of God and there's a sequel called the oneness view of Jesus Christ the one is the oneness of God gives the basic teaching from A to Z the one to C of Jesus Christ drills down on some of these same types of questions more in depth and so if you like that it gets more discussion and then for those who are scholarly I'm not recommending this for the average person but if you have theological training or you know someone who does someone who's been in a seminary maybe a minister that you're trying to explain what we believe I've written my doctoral thesis is called the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ now it takes a historical approach and all of that but it explains how the Apostle Paul in the first century believers were not thinking of two persons but they were thinking of Jesus as the glory of God is revealed in the face of Jesus Christ so if you're interested all those books are available at Pentecost on publishing com so look at it my needle and you got we we not only don't mind you we encourage ya encourage yes since we have four minutes left and I've asked questions for everybody else I'd like to ask one personally and it takes a little bit of assumption of assuming of assuming something that would be the theophanies in the Old Testament let's let specifically use forth like under the son of God in with the three Hebrew boys if and of course we teach and believe that Jesus is begotten took Mary too also bring about his flesh what could they have possibly been seeing in the Old Testament and and ie another example the angel of the Lord wrestling with Jacob who also later said he wrestled with God so so some of some of your explanation on that since we have just sure a theophany is a visible manifestation of God it's temporary nature so it's it's different from incarnation Jesus was actually God coming in the flesh as a human being a theophany is a theological term for when God appeared in a temporary human form so he could appear and disappear he wasn't actually incarnate as a human walking around eating and living for years it was just a brief appearance now there are times in the Old Testament God did appear and sometimes he appeared in an angelic form so when you read the angel of the Lord it depends on the context sometimes it seems pretty clearly it's just an angel representing God other times you get insight like with wrestling with Jacob this is actually God in an angelic form no the fourth man in the fire it says the son of God the the little translation is a son of the gods it was spoken by the pagan King so it's not really clear if he was just saying a deity or an angel so we're not really sure now where this comes in Trinitarian sometimes said well this was the pre-existent Christ a second person of the Trinity and I would say what what do you mean by that if you mean the physical appearance of Christ to me that doesn't make sense because Jesus was born of Mary as a real human I think he had features that look like Mary so if he stood next to Mary you could say oh yeah that's Mary son you know I think that's how human nature works so it seems strange to me that Jesus would appeared with features of Mary back before the Incarnation so I don't think it was like the visible appearance of jesus christ the son of god in his human form I think it was God just choosing some temporary it could have been different every time it could one time he looked like a warrior you know so it may not have been it was temporary so I do believe there were visible manifestations of God in the Old Testament sometimes the angel of the Lord is such maybe the the fourth man in the fire could have been a theophany or it could have been just an angel where we I don't think we can make a doctrine out of it but I would say in any case I don't see how it would be the physical features of Jesus Christ I just believe it's God himself he always has the right to appear however he wants appeared truth one God can do it all in that fabulous folks there's nothing like this book it is withstood time and it's still standing it's gone through every generation and it's still standing don't let anybody get you out of the book they tried to kill it they've tried to bury it they've tried to put it under they've had professors and philosophers try to destroy it yet the Bible is still standing amen I thank God for the teacher of the words that we heard tonight amen thank you both an argument state seat in just a minute we want to give honor to you thank you my general superintendent Hank and to those of you I want to speak directly to the web just a moment are those of you that are watching this maybe four weeks from tonight I want to tell you being baptized in Jesus name and being born of the Spirit is the greatest thing that could happen we're not here to argue our debate we're here to say it's not a matter of you have to it's a matter you get to to know that you have the opportunity to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost whether it was essential or not essential I'd want the baptism of the Holy Ghost to know that I can get in that water and every sin that I have ever committed can be washed away by the name of Jesus when you go down every sin is washed away I'd want to be baptized in Jesus name aren't we thankful husband art thank you let's give honor to him sister Bernard just a Connie Bernard we're so glad you're here God thank you for your truth thank you for the words that have been spoken if anything was presented tonight and we didn't do it with the right spirit will always ask you to forgive us but god we are in love with this truth and god we want to make sure this truth gets out and so lord if you would touch us and bless us and the people that's watching on the web right now would you give them a revelation of the mighty God in Christ will you give them the revelation of baptism in your name will you give them a revelation of the baptism of the Holy Ghost evidence we're speaking with other tongues God you could do it after they have heard what they've heard for the last two hours you can give a revelation to where lives are entirely changed and we can have a worldwide revival from this one question answer session tonight we speak it now in Jesus name [Applause] we never closed the service without giving a person a chance to repent or be baptized in Jesus name or get the Holy Ghost if you're in this room and you haven't been baptized in Jesus name will baptize you right now and if you're on the web sign someplace and some preacher that baptized you in Jesus name if not you call us and we'll come to where you are we will send somebody from this church or we will fund somebody in your area that a baptize you in Jesus name if you're here tonight I'm gonna get baptized if not pastor I said it last Sunday y'all shut down I told you two weeks ago I was gonna preach last Sunday and y'all took it over and I didn't get to preach but Lord willing Wednesday night I'm going to be preaching I love all of you may God bless your fellowship [Applause]

Channel: Azusa Street 1906

Views: 11,146

Rating: 4.8734179 out of 5

Keywords: Pentecostal preaching, Lee Stoneking, Jeff Arnold preaching, Pentecostal Church, Pentecostal people, upci preaching, apostolic doctrine, prayer and fasting, anthony mangun, UPCI, United Pentecostal Church, Apostolic Preaching, david bernard, david bernard preaching

Id: 6OurXVmfkiw

Length: 125min 3sec (7503 seconds)

Published: Sat Nov 02 2019