Bill Johnson's Theology and Movement Examined Biblically.

let me tell you exactly what you can expect right now we're gonna do an analysis a biblical analysis of the teachings of Bill Johnson and Chris valeton and really the focus is going to be on understanding what it is that they teach and their practices so this will be about the movement that's not that's being inspired by Bill Johnson and crisp a lot and Bethel Church in Redding California this isn't just about them it's about their whole movement which is world wide and I want to do this very carefully so I've compiled a bunch of not only quotes but video clips of their actual teachings so that you guys can get from the horse's mouth this is really what they teach I'm not gonna take them out of context I've gone through oh probably 60 hours of footage of their stuff over the past months trying to gather this information to understand it and I think I understand where they're coming from and I think I understand it it makes sense to me so I feel like I can explain it to you so by way of introduction here's how the format's gonna go we'll talk about how Bethel movement got started how its engineered in order to create a signs and wonders kind of momentum that they have going in their movement we'll talk about specific issues related to their theology and their hermeneutic or the way that they interpret the Bible I have some some concerns about the way they're interpreting the Bible we'll talk about issues related to how they perform prophecy and how they do healing and we will specifically deal with of course Bethel but again it's worldwide and here's how I'm approaching this I'm not gonna do this like pretty much almost everyone I've seen do this just about everybody I've seen do this they're either defending Bethel but not looking at Bethel's teachings so they're defending Bethel but they're not being thoughtful about but what are they really teaching like I'm defending the people but I'm not responding to the teachings and practices you get what I mean so there's a defense of the individuals without an examination of what's going on on the other side you have people who examine them and sometimes will attack them and really demonize them I'm not here to attack or defend my goal actually was clarity to give clarity now I do have opinions and I will share them freely and openly but I want clarity I want to try to take them at their word as much as possible I don't want to try to look for like secret shadowy demonic things going on just outside of my vision as I'm watching their videos and stuff rather I want to really take them at their word and have integrity and how I deal with the stuff that they've said I also don't want to make them guilty by association like for instance back in 2016 Bill Johnson shared a stage with Benny Hinn now if you don't know that Benny Hinn is like way off the charts weird theological E and in other ways then he is I'm not gonna this isn't what the video is about but that doesn't mean that Bill Johnson is the same as Benny Hinn and they're very different kinds of kinds of guys they're not even going for the same thing yeah they both do signs and wonders things but they're totally different than each other and we do we do ourselves a favor by recognizing the difference and it keeps us from making them guilty simply by association they're not really associated deeply they shared a stage one time that's about it I mean I actually think Bill Johnson is is saved I don't know whether he's saved or not I don't I mean in the sense that I don't know you know conclusively about a lot of things but I do think he's saved and I think Chris valeton the the prophet of Bethel I think he's also probably saved I could be wrong here and I think even real prophecy and real healing are coming out of this group but I also think fake stuff is coming out of this group and I think the ratio of real to fake is concerning and so please listen all the way through to the end so that you can hear a very balanced handling of the subject if you just grab a little bit of this and run with it you won't get the whole story so let's talk about it here we go Bethel is a church in Redding California which is Northern California I live in Southern California but we've been exposed to people from their fellowships and from their churches coming into our churches in in in the recent past and ministries around us Bill Johnson was the pastor is the pastor up in Bethel Redding California he was really a guy who was just desperate for revival and he wasn't seeing it in his time not in his opinion and he was a pastor up in a city called Weaverville and in Weaverville he was there for years where it started where he had no revival and then as he progressed he got great revival and then in 1996 he was asked to come to Bethel which was where his dad had previously pastored when he came to Bethel bill says and I'll quote this is from his website he says we moved back to Bethel Church in Redding in 1996 that was when I was a junior in high school after the leadership there unanimously supported one condition my one condition I was born for revival and would pursue revival this was not negotiable so Bill's thing was like I want revival and I will settle for nothing less I'm gonna have revival end of story and that was something that they said okay we're gonna support that and but by revival bill doesn't just mean I want to see the work of God he really met a specific kind of engineered revival and we'll get into that in a second about half of his church left not too long after that because they didn't like what was going on but then what happened was bill changed the culture of reading of Bethel in Redding California and that culture of the church shifted what how they think about revival how they think about prophecy how they thought about and practiced healing and how they how open they were to different experiences this sort of all changed and shifted with with his his pastoring of the church and the church now had a new culture and now now what they're doing is they're saying we don't just want revival for us we want this same revival we feel we have we want it around the world for everybody so Bethel is just one Church in Redding and if that's all it was I wouldn't be talking about it but they are so much more than that Bethel is the spearhead of a world wide movement going on right now one that is it has incredible momentum there Momentum's skyrocketing right now right like like you know the the pink haired preachers on TV in like that momentum is gone most of us are like yeah that's not really but the the momentum that's going on with Bethel is just skyrocketing up and that's what they want that's their goal so this live streams a lot bigger than just being about Bethel it's rather focusing on the core or the center of what is really a very large movement worldwide and it's a little hard to define if you decide if some people call this the NA our I don't use that term because they don't use that term and why it's it's fruitless to tell someone you're part of the NIR and they're like what's that okay what's the point of that conversation they are part of the signs and wonders movement though so we can we can say that for a certainty so there's there's Bethel but then there's also Bethel's Apostolic Network you can read about this on their web site go to Bethel calm or or whatever it is Bethel Redding swept sight and they'll actually talk about their apostolic network that is a group of churches worldwide that are part of their network in fact nine of them are within 15 miles of my own church in Bellflower California nine you know hundreds and hundreds of miles away that's in a very small area within 15 miles ninth richest are considered in some way part of this global network this apostolic network also Bethel has not just the Apostolic Network they have Jesus Culture you guys are familiar with Jesus culture you know Bethel music is overtaking vineyard music really they're just kind of carrying on one sort of comes after the other there but Jesus culture is meant to be used to not only promote music it's an intentional deliberate attempt to try to promote a certain kind of revival theology and practice for the church there's also Bethel school of supernatural ministry and they have international students going from around the world to their local school which they've created where they're supposed to change the culture of the church so I'm just I'm just trying to establish right now that this is a big movement this is not one little guy I'm just picking on or something like that and this is a big movement okay and the goal of the supernatural the school of supernatural ministry is to create in this student somebody who can kind of like be like a seed then they leave this school and they go to some other church in some other place in the world and then they change that Church and change that culture there so they're trying to export all this information I'm not making stuff up I'm gonna play a video where bill says the same thing in just a moment now in all reality does the church need to change I mean do we need do we need large worldwide change in the Church of revival yes we absolutely do and so I don't I don't de ride them for any of these things that they're doing so far I think it's needed I think I need it I think the world needs to see the church in in a real place of revival not on the verge of revival not one day we'll have a revival but really following Jesus with everything we've got walking in self sacrificial love living out holy lives and being completely abandoned to the cause of the kingdom of God absolutely we need that but I don't think that that that validates everything that they're doing so they're exporting their culture through books through online teaching through seminars revival me concerts through schools through you name it you name it this is important because the things that they're teaching aren't things you learn from reading the Bible these are things you learn when you get around a certain environment whether where they have a bunch of extra biblical practices and habits and I know cuz I've been there I was at anion vineyard when I was in my teens and and and saw a lot of things there that you don't read about in the Bible but they've but they work like when you create this certain environment with certain practices it really does cause certain responses from people and that's what they're doing so Bethel is also building a house of generals they call it the House of generals and they also have another kind of nebulous thing they're building called the apostolic center and I don't know exactly what the apostolic center is because in their videos they don't describe it entirely but basically it's going to be a location where this stuff just goes to the next level we're exporting our teachings and our practices big-time to the church around the world is the idea the house of generals is going to be a location where they have it's interesting on a side note I'll share this where they where they have like kind of a Museum of artifacts or relics from past revivals and you come and you can touch them or you can pray over them and you can ask God for that anointing and it's a little odd and but it's gonna what it's what's gonna happen is over the next ten years Bethel is going to become the mecca for the for the hyper charismatic movement and I'm charismatic I believe in the gifts the spirit but but that's what Bethel's positioning themselves to become is the mecca and for not just the hyper what they want to do is they really want to appeal to all streams of the charismatic movement as well as anybody even who's not so this is gonna be really big let me let me play with you for you the first video this is this is Bill Johnson talking about his mandate to change the world so here it comes we're exporters I don't ever want to change that but my heart burns to be able to say you know what let's experiment at home let's get it working let's get let's get the wrinkles ironed out of this thing and let's get a model that is that can be duplicated anywhere in the world and let's get that model and it's not American culture its revival culture and let's take it somewhere and this plant let's plant it through Jesus culture was planted through the music we write let's plant it through the conferences that we do the conference's that we bring in people for so that what gets modeled is is makes Jesus famous and really brings his presence into culture into the environment ok so they want to there we go they want to bring their culture to change and transform the church so they can change transform the world and they're fully committed to this it's not exaggeration they want to change whole cities and hold people groups and nothing's wrong with that unless the change you're bringing is not entirely healthy and right and good and so it's a mixed bag with Bethel there's things I like about it and there's things I learn and grow from as I hear their teachings but there's other things that I go oh man that's that's wrong it's just it's error and what good is gonna come of this kind of error so I'm gonna I want to share that with you today that's what they're doing I believe they have some great miracles going on but also some not miracles that are pretend they also have some twisted theology and they and they and I'll show you this I'll prove you this prove this to you today they encourage people being fake they they honestly do I will show you video of them encouraging people to fake prophesy fake speak in the Lord and that's coming that's all coming up today if you have any questions go ahead and you can start loading them into the live chat and AJ if you're watching live and AJ will send those to me at the end I will answer those questions if you're not watching live I do try to check the comments on my videos and I try to keep up with them as much as I can so I will be checking that comment section alright let's talk about the teaching of Bethel the theology of Bethel their theological underpinnings so bill is and I had to do a lot of digging to find this out but bill is is is an apostle in the eyes of the people there you know he never calls himself an apostle and that's the first thing if you're from Bethel that's the first thing you're gonna say is bill doesn't ever call himself an apostle but you do don't you because the teaching and the vibe and the field of Bethel is Bill's the apostle chris is the prophet we have apostles and prophets and so we have the fullness of the of the the will of God for the church so as bill he also thinks he's an apostle I'm convinced seeing hours and hours of him say this do his teachings I'm convinced he considers himself an apostle so with that in mind listen to this teaching of his where he talks about how in acts 2:42 we have like this beautiful verse about like the four things the church did that kept them healthy and strong and one of them was they were steadfast in the Apostles teaching now I would normally think of the Apostles teaching as being those things contained in the New Testament he's going to imply that the Apostles teaching is actually the fresh word that him and people like him are bringing today so here so that's what I want to do I'm going to talk to you about the context is going to be out of Acts to actually talks about that they continually devoted themselves to the Apostles teaching to the breaking of bread to prayer to fellowship they continually devoted as the phrase I'm gonna work with they were able to maintain a move of God because they continually recommitted themselves to what got them there they recognized the distinctives of the season they were in and they they didn't try to pass from them too quickly they continually devoted themselves to and in today's case I'll say the Apostles teaching I I think it's interesting that the Bible doesn't include a list of the Apostles teaching because I think I think there are things that are always true but there are also things that he is saying now that he wasn't emphasizing in a previous season so I'm gonna use that that distinctive that clarity as we approach these four things today okay so then he's gonna give after that he gives four things that they believe the things themselves are are not are not what I'm gonna focus on because they're just really generic things he goes God is good that's one nothing is impossible Jesus of blood purchased everything and we are significant but super generic I sort of agree with them but it depends on what you do with them we'll get into what he does with those distinctives later but first he says this it's interesting that God did not give us a list of the Apostles teachings I don't know what that means I mean I know the words themselves I understand the sentence but I don't know the significance he's trying to draw from this the implication is that the Apostles teaching is open and that the teaching he's bringing today the distinctives he's bringing the four distinctives of bill's ministry that this is the Apostles teaching for today now I don't know how to when trying to be gracious here but I don't know how to interpret that in any way other than elevating his teaching up right alongside the Word of God and I think that that is incorrect I think it's unbiblical God didn't give us a list of teaching no he gave us the actual teaching right so I don't have a list of the Apostles teachings I mean in a sense I do I could be like Oh Matthew Mark Luke John you know but what he did was he actually had recorded permanently recorded the Apostles teaching and so I have this teaching recorded in the New Testament and I'm to continued steadfastly in it it wasn't the Apostles as in whoever happens to be calling themselves an apostle in the future it was those specific guys that I mean let's interpret acts 2:42 in its context it's these guys it's their teaching which we have recorded in Matthew Mark Luke John acts Romans you know we have it throughout the New Testament so that Mis interpretation of acts 2:42 it opens the door for him to be the Apostle who's doing the teaching now now he doesn't make a big thing about it and I don't think he's he's arrogant in the sense of honor if he's are gonna know who knows his heart but I don't think he's trying to say look at me I'm an impossible rather he's focused on the teaching he wants this teaching to get into everyone's hearts and minds right like Benny Hinn is all about the glory of Benny Hinn or so it seems Kenneth Copeland it seems to be about all about the glory of Kenneth Copeland bill Johnson is all about creating a movement throughout the church and I don't think he cares how loud his voice is in that movement he wants the movement to happen so I applaud him for that sense of selflessness that's there and I want to acknowledge it but I don't think it's accurate so what is the gospel what exactly is the gospel you're getting into I do think the gospel of of Bethel is probably intact with editions now it's it's tough when you add something to the gospel because if what you're adding may may pervert the gospel to the point where it's a false gospel or it or it may not I mean this is a complicated issue depends on what you doesn't it or how you add are you adding works to the gospel that's a false gospel so I think but I think the Bethel gospel is intact except for one big thing that they do which is they include in the gospel itself the gospel of salvation know that the heart of the gospel right Jesus is death and resurrection and our faith in him for salvation that's the heart of the gospel you know for eternal life in Christ moving forward into the future but to them the gospel includes something about healing today right now not just the idea of healing it includes you will be healed today right now in the name of Jesus God wants to heal everybody and that to them is central to the gospel so here is a kind of disturbing moment where bill quotes at Galatians 2 and he uses the anatomy of Galatians 2 if you're familiar with the passage he uses it against anyone who doesn't think healing not just healings for today but complete and total healing every time is for today there anathematized which is to say to have a false gospel let's listen to this I refuse to create a theology that allows for sickness now here we got a problem only 1/2 smaller the Apostle Paul gives a warning in Galatians and he says this he says if I he's the one who brought the gospel - he said if I or even an angel comes to you and preaches to you a different gospel you're to reject that's amazing an angel shows up and he brings you a different standard a different gospel rejected he says even if I come back to you and I changed my mind don't pay any attention to me all right what gospel is it it's the gospel of Jesus it's the gospel of the kingdom okay let me illustrate Paul refers to his thorn in the flesh which has been interpreted by many as disease allowed or brought on by God that's a different gospel Jesus didn't model it and he didn't teach it and Paul said you can't change the standard that felt good you guys alright you know yes what he's doing here is he's actually saying your your anathematized which means you if you're not just cursed in the sense of like something bad will happen you know you have a false gospel if you don't teach that Jesus always intends healing every time in fact he even hung it on the idea some people teach that Paul's thorn in the flesh was a physical thing was a physical illness or disease he it was definitely a physical ailment like I don't see how you can get away around this it was a physical ailment that's the text that's what it says it was some sort of I'm not perfectly healthy and prospering right now like there's no way around it it had to have been even if it wasn't a disease right if it was like a limp or or just I don't know some giant splinters to connect aside like it still was not perfect and holding healthy but if I teach that now I'm anathematized according to Bill I've brought up a false gospel according to Bill Johnson okay so how how extreme is this does this mean that Bill's not saved like I'm not sure this is such a weird weird theology and such a strange thing to do that I don't really fully want to go there I want to offer the the I don't know look at the kindness at least you know human kindness of saying no maybe he's just wrong but he's still saved there and and I sure hope so and I think he probably is but God knows so this is a pretty serious theological misstep but there's something that's more central to their theology like there's a reason why they can say this because you're probably already thinking if you know the word you're like wait a minute I mean that doesn't seem consistent I know lots of Bible passages that seem to refute the idea that we're exposed to expect full prosperity full you know healing and prosperity in life right now today but how do they get around all those passages well this is where we get to like I think the one wrong false doctrinal distinctive of Bethel and of the movement that they're inspiring this is the false doctrinal distinctive now you may be part of the movement and not even know this distinctive because it is buried in thousands of hours of footage of inspiring messages that are very inspiring okay I'm inspired too but when you get to the theology you start to get to this one central theological pillar of all of their stuff and it's this idea that we might we might optically look at Jesus we focus completely on Jesus in the Bible and we ignore everything else and we filter everything through Jesus now that might sound like good theology to you but not the way they're applying it let me play for you some clips where they explain this teaching how Jesus allows me to basically disregard clear teachings throughout the rest of the Bible I'd like to suggest to you that any interpretation of Scripture that differs from the standard Jesus set needs to be brought into question you don't approve it why cuz the standard is Jesus so the first one there is the standard is Jesus don't even allow yourself to accept an interpretation that disagrees with Jesus but get this he doesn't just mean Jesus in general they mean Jesus who fits the description we give Jesus who always heals Jesus whose would never cause sickness that sort of thing so let me let me build this case I need to build this case for you I'm gonna play two more videos where he says similar statements in different settings it's theologically immoral to allow an Old Testament revelation of God's nature usurp and surpass the clear manifestation of the Father's nature's found in the Lord Jesus Christ okay so it's theologically immoral to do this right this is this is the one big no-no that you don't do one more video to explain this in more detail look at how he applies it Jesus Christ is perfect theology he's perfect theology it is theologically immoral to allow anything any revelation about God that contradicts what you see in the person of Jesus to allow that to trump your concept of what God is like the clearest manifestation of the nature of the Father seen in the person of Jesus he made it very clear said if you've seen me you've seen the father how did he handle sin how did he handle sinners how did he handle disease how many storms did he bless hello how many storms did he bless how many times were there life-threatening storms that he would face in the middle of the scene he'd say well just go over to that city destroy them and it'll teach them to pray and they'll become more like me there's anybody alive in the building we got concepts of the nature of God that are that are that are based on disappointment not based on Revelation see your questions about God the questions that every one of us have none of them have the authority to cancel a revelation okay so here's what we got we have a teaching because I don't want it to cuss to miss this I literally had to hear this you know Jesus perfect theology thing multiple times before I slowly hearing it all in context I mean I listen to the whole study not just the clips I'm showing you hearing it all in context so I could go what do they mean by that I mean I kind of agree with it but I but I'm not sure what you're doing with it you know it's kind of like you know your friend goes do you trust me and you're like I do but why would you ask you know you're scared I'm in here with your with your bold statement that I don't know what you'll do with what he does with it is this he says things like what storm did Jesus bless so the implication is that if I think that God might cause a storm whether it be like a hurricane or something like that that that's wrong because Jesus didn't cause any storms during the the pages that we have that describe him during his physical time walking on the earth this is this is a weird way of interpreting the Bible instead of taking all of the Bible the whole counsel of God's Word and saying I believe all of the Bible and the Bible balances things out you know one portion answers you know a dilemma created from another and the the folder teaching here gives me understanding to interpret this passage here instead it's just Jesus right Jesus and not Jesus throughout the Old Testament cuz Jesus said he was the he was the I am that spoke to Moses out of the bush like that not that Jesus only the Jesus who was walking the earth during the three and a half years not to Jesus in Revelation who said I'll kill your children with sickness like my pets you use only the only the three-and-a-half years so this creates a distorted Christianity a distorted version of what we believe about Jesus and I'll give you one more clip that talks about how they how they how they kind of get people to come alongside with this with an honest honestly listen to this this is philosophical gobbledygook what I'm about to share with you he's going to talk about how some truths are superior and some trees are inferior and yeah it's gobbledygook but it's a way to get you to swallow a unbalanced teaching we talked the other day about truths and their superior truths there are things that are absolutely true but there are things that are more true should I should I do something easier this morning because this morning or are you guys engaging with me maybe I should start with some stories that might help us to there are things that are true but there are things that are more true the judgment of God is true the mercy of God is more true sin as a reality his love covers a multitude of sins so it's more true [Music] and anything that you know about the nature of God there's not seen in the person of Jesus is an inferior truth that was that was the Whammy right he gives a couple examples right like there's the judgment of God is true but his mercy is more true then he gives another example as well but these are these this isn't the theology this is just the example to prepare you for the big boom moment which is that any revelation you see in the scripture that disagrees with the person of Jesus is an inferior truth okay so let me deal with the examples first because I'm trying to handle this teaching and hear it in context mm-hmm the example that the judgment of God is true but the mercy of God is more true that's not true this is not a biblical truth right I could be like well I think what he means by that is but forget what you think and you wish he meant by it and just say the words themselves aren't accurate the you know one trees not more true than the other rather I mean God literally purchases our mercy through judgment right justice and mercy have kissed like The Book of Psalms says God's judgment is fulfilled in every human being either through Christ being judged for them or through them being judged apart from Christ and so a judgment of mercy are not contrary or superior and inferior truths but that's just like the warm up right the the main focus is when he says that whole thing about basically disregarding theological concepts and truths because Jesus is better than that you know like the book of Job in this in this healing in this healing thing this like movement of signs and wonders and healings now I believe in science and wonders and healings I'm talking here about this particular movement though Bethel's thing that they're trying to push in that movement they will have different interpretations of Joe but depending on who you talk to the book of Joe right because the book of Job seems to fly in the face of all this you know what's interesting is Bill Johnson's interpretation of Jobe it is I don't know like he doesn't even worry about it he doesn't even try to interpret right Todd white he interprets Joe by saying God didn't actually cause any of those things to happen God didn't allow it it was it was Satan who did it God didn't have it get basically God wasn't controlling the moment now you can refute that and I'm at the end of job actually says God says that he brought those things on job so you can refute that easily but bill Johnson doesn't even try to refute it because his philosophy inferior and superior truths he just says this and I quote job is the question Jesus is the answer and then he moves along with his his teaching and all that it doesn't nothing affects him right the vision of Jesus he has is impervious even to scripture scripture can't correct his understanding of Jesus and if you do this if you look at at Jesus we will do this in a minute we will look at Jesus and say what if all we took was Jesus would we expect healing every single time should we just take Jesus will tackle that in a minute so their standard is Jesus and they believe in superior and inferior truths and that is a terrible hermeneutic like please study the Bible patiently thoughtfully don't look for easy ways out of theology where you where you just take one passage and you basically ignore anything else you see because this will be the King to you that's what false groups do all the time they take uh truth of Scripture exaggerate it beyond proportion and use it to discount other truths of Scripture that that's a bad thing we don't do that now I want to show you a video that's from a Q&A and the question is does God ever ever give sickness does God ever cause anyone to be sick this is Bill Johnson answering the question during a Q&A and I think you will find his answer a less than satisfactory if you love the Word of God and you think that the Bible is true but you'll see how this answer flows from his one theological pillar that Jesus is perfect theology see the Bible the rest the Bible doesn't matter in this regard so let me play it for you now does God ever cause sickness does God ever choose not to heal what was Paul's thorn in the flesh Jesus was these are the three really easy questions [Applause] Jesus was sleeping in the bottom of a boat in the middle of a life-threatening storm he was sleeping because the world he was living in had no storm he was living in a realm of Kingdom reality he was actually living in a realm called peace when they woke him up he stood looked out the storm and it says he released peace over the storm now how did he release peace because he had it to give we know he had it because he slept in the storm so you can only give away what you have can God give away sickness no he's not sick can't give cancer if you don't have it that I want to have a loving gracious attitude towards Bill but let me tackle the thing he said it's first off it's just it's not based on Scripture and I'll show you scriptures that prove that second it's not based on reality you can't give what you don't have okay First Samuel 5/6 it says but the hand of the Lord was heavy on the people of Ashdod and he ravaged them and struck them with tumors both Ashdod and it's territory does God have tumors does gotten your mic at me huh you want some pets she's probably gonna come and invade our livestream does God have tumors that's the question I'd have have I mean think about this for a second does God have tumors because you can't give what you don't have and everybody laughs approvingly because that's all the theology they need that is so shallow that theology so shallow it scares me because you could be falling into any sort of deceit or any sort of confusion if you have that kind of weak theology the cat people are all happy right now other people are like that's no distracting Mike so sorry I love my cats I think they're great let me give you another quote because the response you can you tell this is why I share with you that pillar the one pillar of theology for Bethel in their group is Jesus's perfect theology interpret everything else through him ignore inferior truths like the one where God gave people tumors so if Jesus is perfect theology then if Jesus was to give someone sickness or death or something like that then that would definitely prove that their theology is wrong and that bills trite answer to a very powerfully you know asked question like that that doesn't work Revelation chapter 2 verses 22 and 23 let me read this to you this is Jesus here he says indeed I will cast her into a sick bed I will cast her into a sick bed this is about this this false teacher in in one of the churches in the letters to revelation so revelation 222 I will cast her into a sick bed and those who commit adultery with her into Great Tribulation unless they repent of their deeds I will kill her children with death and these were about babies they were about her followers and all the churches shall know that I am he who searches the minds and hearts and I will give to each of you according to your works this is Jesus in the New Testament giving sickness and death and it's deserved it's deserved and earned by those who are receiving it in this case so this this cannot be our theology that we just ignore the scriptures and we focus on only certain chapters of certain books of the Bible to build all of our theology in particular our theology on healing it's not healthy it's not wise it's not sound I'm not attacking bill because I'm mad at him I'm not attacking bill because I'm jealous that I don't have enough miracles in my life and I want to discount his know I'm dealing with the teachings in the theology and I think this is how we have to handle this group we have to deal with the teachings in theology because their zeal is good miracles are wonderful healings are awesome but their theology is off and we'll get to the miracles and the healings and some concerns I have about those in just a moment so let's take if we would just the three and a half years of Jesus's ministry and we'll ask this because this is what a lot of people do and bill asked him to do this he says just read Jesus read the Gospels for months months just read them over and over again and just ask yourself what lifestyle of Christianity should I have after reading the Gospels now this is a good thing unless you do it my optically unless you do it where you're only reading those and you don't read anything else in the scripture you should be reading the whole Council of God's Word because God reveals things in multiple place places in multiple ways but let's take Jesus is three and a half years um what did Jesus teach did Jesus teach me I should expect full prosperity in every way as Bethel teaches financially physically emotionally health-wise in every way I expect full full health and well-being right now that is that what Jesus said well look at what Jesus said in Matthew 26 verse 11 think about these words he says for the poor you have the poor with you always but me you do not have always so in Jesus's life and teachings he says the port will always be with you but Bethel's theology would be that we expect the church to eradicate poverty through proclaiming the gospel there will be no more poverty this is before the return of Christ right there will be no poverty but jesus said you will always have the poor with you so Jesus did not expect us to eradicate all poverty not that we shouldn't help the poor we should help the poor we should have hearts for them I'm just talking about the extreme exaggerated view of this but if I take Jesus as perfect theology and I try to copy him in every way does that mean I should have twelve disciples and I'm asking sincerely this is not mockery should I have twelve disciples if I'm gonna myopically look at only Jesus am I not supposed to have twelve disciples should I be an itinerant preacher I mean I'm supposed to copy Jesus right shouldn't shouldn't I go around and be any shouldn't we all be itinerary preachers should I stay single Jesus never got married never had any relations of any kind shouldn't I stay that way if I take just Jesus and ignore everything else the Scripture teaches should I eat kosher Jesus ate kosher and some of you were like yeah I'm a kosher it and no harm in that either but but am I supposed to though because I look at just Jesus he ate kosher should I visit Jerusalem every Passover because Jesus always visited Jerusalem on the Passover you see you can't just say I'll do whatever Jesus did and look at things that casually we need to look at the rest of Scripture and in order to balance ourselves out with fullness of truth there is a central verse in bill teaching in theology it's on his website it's in his teachings in his studies all the time it's in his books some of you know it if you're familiar with with Bethel and their stuff it's Matthew 6:10 where Jesus told us to pray your kingdom come your will be done on earth as it is in heaven on earth as it is in heaven so there's central doctrinal thing is you know Jesus is perfect theology that's the central doctrinal thing but their center of how they practice their their their religion and their their lives of following Jesus that's this verse right here Matthew 6:10 which is on earth as it is in heaven and what they think this means is that God is going to cause everything that would be like we would we would expect to see in heaven we'll be seeing it on earth that's what they think that verse is saying that's not what that verse is saying it's a prayer we're asking his kingdom to come we're asking for the second coming of Jesus we're asking for his will to be done we're asking for that thing we read about in Revelation to happen now in fact let me read this to you if you've been to Bethel you've been confused on c-deck you've been confused on what it means for God's kingdom to come you think his kingdom coming is healing right is miracles is signs and wonders coming to your community right now that is in a sense the kingdom of God coming near you and this is consistent in the Gospels the kingdom of God being upon you so you're being invited to that Kingdom but when his kingdom actually comes to earth that's revelation that's the book of Revelation that's that is the whole book of Revelation his kingdom coming to earth revelation 6 verses 16 and 17 it says and said to the mountains and rocks fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the lamb for the great day of his wrath has come who is able to stand this is the coming of the kingdom his wrath is coming let me read to another verse in Revelation verses chapter 11 verses 15 through 18 this is a description of the kingdom coming it's not just signs and wonders is not just miracles then the seventh angel sounded and there were loud voices in heaven saying the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ and he shall reign forever and ever aka his kingdom has come and the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their on their Thrones fell on their faces and worshipped God saying we give you thanks O Lord God Almighty the one who is and who was and who is to come because you've taken your great power and reign the nations were angry and your wrath has come and the time of the Dead that they should be judged and that you should reward your servants the prophets in the Saints and those who fear your name small and great and should destroy those who destroy the earth so the coming the God's kingdom is coming this thing is going to be a wrath thing where God cleanses the earth and judgment and then recreates it I mean read revelation just read it straight through all the way and just see that that's the kingdom coming specifically identified as so that's another one of the problems with with the theology of on heaven as it is on or on earth as it is in heaven that's the theology that's the practice practical theology of their church is that their standards way too low they focus primarily on healings so it's number one about a person getting healed from the afflictions that they've got going on emotionally physically financially that sort of thing but that standards way too low because the Bible says that when God's kingdom comes when things are done on earth as they are in heaven revelation 21:4 takes place let me read this verse to you and see that this is not even the goal of the group it says and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes and there shall be no more death nor sorrow nor crying nor there shall be no more pain for the former things have passed away that's heaven coming to earth no death no sorrow no crying no pain they're looking for financial and physical well-being and spiritual well-being God is saying no death so Bethel if you're really truly you know this movement this is the signs of Wonders group if you're really and truly engaging in heaven as it is in heaven now it is on earth then you see no death so it's not just dying of old age even that's not even acceptable it you know because I remember her crisp a lot and he said no one in their congregation was allowed to die except of old age I heard that from his own mouth and they all laughed because everything everything's kind of cheeky and humorous for them but but they mean it but really if you're gonna take this heaven to earth seriously stuff then you could have to say no one's allowed to die period there is no death but they're ignoring the fact that there is a season now there's another season coming and that's when the full fulfillment of these beautiful blessings of God and there will be no more death nor sorrow nor crying I mean I wish I could say oh yeah it's gonna happen right now it's all gonna happen in fullness right now but um but I'm not gonna go beyond the word I'm not gonna go beyond the word so let me shift gears a bit I want to talk to you about the practice so that's the theology I talked to you so far to recap about the theology of that one pillar Jesus is perfect theology and how that's used to ignore a lot of Scripture then I talked to you about their one practical motivating scripture which is on heaven as it is on earth and showed how they're misinterpreting that that's about the second coming that's not just about healings and stuff like that and then I'm going to talk to you about the practice because what they've done is they've gotten a large group of people to really feel like there's a ton of miracles taking place all over the place and it's really sent out a vibe to others where they come in they visit Bethel for miracles like Nabeel Qureshi wonderful guy wonderful my god he visited Bethel for miracles a couple different times while he had cancer um he actually received he according to him he listened to his vlogs you know he said he received hundreds of prophecies that he would be healed of his stomach cancer and and he was encouraged by those things let's not discount that but it didn't happen but I mean how is it that you can get hundreds of prophecies wrong hundreds not one hundreds because of what I'm about to tell you right now here's the things they practice regarding healing they encourage I think fake healing they first tell people that God is always willing to heal then now follow with me now imagine you're at your church you start doing this you start employing these practices you tell them one God is always willing to heal always always always willing and ready to heal right now not in the distant future doesn't heal even when I die and I mean as presents obviously I'm at fullness of health so that's the first thing the next thing they do though because I feel like this healing doesn't take place so then they lower the threshold for confirming healing they lower the threshold for confirming healings so they'll pray you know bill will say I really feel like God I got a word it's people who have joint problems you've got joint problems you know or you have headaches or you've got you've got something wrong with your stomach there's a growth interest he'll he'll put out a word and then he says raise your hand and then he has whoever's got their hand raised the rest of the congregation puts their hands on that person and prays for them this is all nothing's wrong this so far right this is fine this is good we should probably do more prayer for healing in most of our churches and not shy away from it I think we should be encouraged in this area by Bill but what happens next is after they pray they bring their hands down and then bill says hey anybody who was healed raise it raise your hand and wave them in the air raise your hands and wave them in the air okay how do you even know you're healed you know like I don't know if I'm healed right now like you say you've got a hernia I've had three so I know about hernias okay so you got a hernia and you go am i healed and you're like well I don't I mean I don't know I it's not protruding at the moment but I'm so excited and I thought I would be I'm raising my hand when I raise my hands out people start shouting and cheering and it's this wonderful moment a really wonderful moment but what they've done is they've lowered the bar for actually confirming that you're healed if you go to a prayer room at Bethel and you pray and you're lucky I can't move my hand it really hurts and they pray over and they pray over and they go try to move it now and you move it and they go how's it feel and you go I don't feels a little better and they go praise the Lord praise the Lord let's pray again how's it feel now it's a little bit let's pray again let's pray again look praise the Lord let's pray again and I love the persistence in prayer that's not a problem but the pressure on the people to say that they're healed and the immediate instantaneous celebration as those feelings totally legit it encourages an environment where fake things happen it also they decrease the ability our ability to to say that someone's not been healed and one of the ways they do this is they say if you leave the building and you felt pretty good like you might have been healed so you said maybe I'm healed and they celebrated like you were then you leave later and you start feeling your symptoms again they don't say oh you weren't really healed you just had an adrenalin rush what they say is you lost your healing see because now I can still feed the idea that those healings are really taking place this has caused them to have to create actually whole programs around the idea of people keeping their healing how to keep your healing and they have training for how to keep your healing because people don't keep their healing or they weren't healed maybe it was just they were excited they were blessed they were ministered to in some way but it wasn't healing so the multiple prayer the stress the the encouragement for quick and immediate or celebration of what might be healing the the claim that when someone wasn't healed that they were they just lost their healing I think that's happening as well and it creates this momentum so that in the services people come in anticipating healing which is I mean that's kind of a good thing right but it's also potentially a bad thing it's kind of both they totally give glory to Jesus when people are healed and so let's not knock them for that they're not like giving glory to some false God or something like that I just think that it's not genuine sometimes some of these healings are legit and I mean you go watch the videos yourself and hear the testimonies and unless you're like hyper skeptic mode if you're just going like is it reasonable you go man that guy was healed that kid was healed that family came back years later to tell the story of how that healing did happen and it stayed and so we should rejoice in the in these things you have a room full of people praying for healing healing happens not surprised but I'm talking about the some of the gimmickry that's going on around that now I think they feel they have to have the gimmickry in order to create those occasional healings and if that's true I just don't think that that's how the Spirit of Truth works I don't think so I think here's a better way another thing they teach about healing that keeps keeps this momentum going is they talk about the fragility of the anointing for instance Bill's son who's a grown man he has a speech impediment because he has hearing loss like I think it's like 90% money or something like that and so he doesn't hear very well he wears a hearing aid and bill says that he's prayed for healing for a son and and God told him his son is already healed not that it's gonna happen it's already happened this is years ago isn't but there's no physical manifestation of healing yet and so bill and his message where he taught about this he says I just can't think about that because it'll ruin the anointing that's the thing you see you're not even allowed to process this stuff because you have to keep yourself in a certain mindset that I think is not established biblically and is not established experientially eat in either away but if you teach people that if they think wrong they're gonna lose the anointing then it creates this cycle where they they're sort of feels scared not to not to come back into that thought process yes all I don't I thought I had a video for you guys about the Healing Rooms yeah let's look at this video here we're coming into a day where the presence of the Lord will be so pronounced in a meeting that everyone who walks into the building will be healed that's not that's not a theory it's already happened but what I want is for it to be a sustained reality in the life of the church okay and then I've got one more hour if that's is to create a theology okay so I've got one more video related to healing I want to show you when we go into something else in a moment prophecy actually they'll move on to in a second but there's always the the dangling carrot that's what this video is for there's always the dangling carrot of God's releasing more if you watch these videos and see these ministries they're always on the cusp on the verge of ultimate breakthrough of achieving their dreams it's always on the verge and a year later it's on the verge and ten years later it's right on the verge and 20 years later don't lose your fire it's right on the verge and but it hasn't manifested and I mean it'd be great if it happened I mean I would go there for healing if that was going on that'd be great god bless Bethel and make it all happen for real like that that's cool but well we shouldn't be faking stuff right so here's the video that talks about how to keep their healing and I'll get into more detail after sharing this with you so they have that and then but they have a time that they teach them afterwards like hey here's how to walk in this miracle that you've received today and so I'm kind of kind of give them the things to think about and how to fill the house again it's one of the best things that the Healing Rooms do is that follow-up meeting where they begin to teach him so the follow-up meetings he goes this is like a 13 minute video the one I was just showing you and he kind of takes a really long time to explain what he means by keeping your healing but he gives a few different ways of keeping your healing and things like making sure that you live live a clean life so you don't bring it on yourself making sure that you are focused on the Lord because that healing demons are gonna try to come back and in re-enter and things like that and I don't the thing is I don't fully disagree with anything in that list of things it's when you add it all together with a false theology that you start to realize we're a movement that's uncritical of fake healing and how can that be wise we should be loving we should be praying for healing we should be celebrating it when it happens but we shouldn't be fooling ourselves what fruit can come of this you know the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth the Spirit of Truth and so we should be speaking about true things so let's talk now my last major subject is prophecy what happens at Bethel more than healing is prophecy there's tons of prophecy that goes on at Bethel and what I mean here is not just that Chris valeton the Prophet speaks prophetically I mean everybody is speaking prophetically now theologically I fully support prophecy in fact I have videos that talk about a biblical view on the gift of prophecy and you Christian you you should be praying for prophecy you should be asking the Lord and seeking for God to give you words of wisdom or knowledge to speak into someone else's life this is good I see because I'm not here attacking healing or anything I love these things we should be inspired to do them don't don't do that thing where we go there being weird so I'll pull away from the goodness of this good thing because they're doing it weird I don't want to be like that but I do think that I can demonstrate where Bethel is getting a little off-base on the issue of prophecy so I'm not attacking prophecy I'm here pointing out a concern I have with Bethel in particular listen to this video where he describes how he got people to start prophesying remember bill was in Weaverville before he came to Bethel and in Weaverville is where he first saw the movement taking place for salt the gifts of the Spirit flowing and so this is how it happened I want to pray for this prophetic anointing you you guys would laugh if you knew how I'm just gonna tell you I can actually go a couple minutes over in this service I don't yeah other one but this one I can yeah you know we started the prophetic in Weaverville years ago there was no zero prophetic zero there wasn't a prophetic Mouse there wasn't a prophetic flea it was zero when we moved there so I'd get min sit around a table and I'd turn to the one on my right say if Jesus were to walk in the room right now what do you think he'd say yeah I think he'd say that girl the next one to go all the way around the room and after we got all the way around the room I'd say do you realize that you all just profs I know it's that easy see when your strive is when you miss it it's when you're relaxing who you are abiding in presence of biding in his voice it becomes very natural to speak words that are life-giving okay what I what I hear there and I think you hear at two is that he encouraged people to just say something that they they imagined and then he called it prophecy and he chosen that's how it started that's how it started in Weaverville we just got people around we just said just say something man say something nice then maybe Jesus would say if he was here that's prophecy is that prophecy no no is it wrong no but it's wrong to call it prophecy it's not wrong to be like I wonder what Jesus would think of what I'm doing in my life right now I think I think the Lord would probably think this and use your knowledge of Jesus today and that's a great thing nothing's wrong with that but when you say that's prophecy that's where you crossed a line so there is an encouragement and you are trained to do this like if you go to Bethel school supernatural ministry or if you get their information you're trained to go to your church and do this with your staff you know just basically get them to fake prophecy um can real prophecy come out of that yeah can fake prophets that come out of that yep absolutely and it will so let me give you the theological significance of this kind of prophecy the Bible actually talks did you know this the Bible talks about three sources for prophecy there are not two we tend to think is it from God or is it from Satan is it from God or is it from Satan where is this prophecy coming from now God has his prophets we know that in Scripture Satan has his prophets - we know that from Scripture as well false prophets but the Book of Jeremiah and Ezekiel revealed there's a third kind of prophecy and that I think is largely the that's the kind of prophecy that's happening in Bethel I don't think it's demonic most of it I'm not saying even some of it is I'm just saying I'm not making that decision I don't hear all the stuff that's going on there but I think most of its probably not okay and here's what I think most of it is Jeremiah 23 16 backs this up it says thus says the Lord of hosts do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you they make you worthless they speak a vision of their own heart not from the mouth of the Lord a vision of their own heart so that there is such a thing as prophecy that comes from my heart not God's heart prophecy that comes from my heart not even Satan it's just what I wish was true it's like I dip into my heart and go all you know what Jerusalem I love Jerusalem I love your people you will not be attacked you will not be destroyed God will lift you up God will raise you up and that's what Jeremiah's prophets the false prophets were saying and he says don't listen to them that's from their heart not me Jeremiah 23 a little bit later in the same chapter verses 25 and 26 it says I've heard what the prophets have said who prophesy in my lies in my name saying I've dreamed I have dreamed how long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart and the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked so I have to be careful that I don't start speaking things that aren't true because they're from my heart thinking that that makes it true again Ezekiel 13 - says this son of man prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy and say to those who prophesy out of their own heart hear the word of the Lord there's this difference between their heart and God's word see this is I know I'm doing good because the cat has to come over here and confirm she's like preach it preach it Mack you're doing oh look you're doing good sorry okay so what's happening when I gather a group of men together and I say hey what do you think Jesus would say what do you think Jesus would say what do you think he'd say and then I can I tell them you prophesied they spoke from their own heart and I called it prophecy now when I do this for a whole culture of people I do it to a whole community I create a lot of prophecies but they're coming from your own heart and so let me give you one other video that confirms this this is what they do not just in a private meeting in Weaver this is what they do in their training sessions for how to prophesy so we've got to applaud you know cursed us an amazing job you'll take like a room like this it'll pair you off and you'll see our everybody on the right give a word of knowledge another was something you couldn't know in the natural about the person you're faced off with at the end we'll ask the question you know how many of you got it right they raised their hand everybody collapse it says how many of you got it wrong they raised their hands everybody collapse you know we're not talking about moral failure we're talking about as leaders we have to create an environment where risk is applauded knowing that eventually there will be breakthrough as long as you stay accountable so there's there's I mean there is that truth like stay accountable right but and that's a good principle you know risk and virtue and accountability and things like that but what's being encouraged is basically fake prophecy false prophecy in the name of the Lord they don't care if it's right or wrong we just want to get you started prophesying right because what they've learned through their experimentation notice this what what Bethel's done is not moving in the spirit it's social experimentation social engineering in a church environment then they've learned how to take that social engineering turn it into a formula that they can bring into other churches and that's what they're doing with their movement worldwide I think that this brings a lot of clarity to it you hear the quotes out of their own mouths this is what you're doing man you're you're creating prophecies of your own heart and this is why in the the doctrine of prophecy that they have they have to have artificial filters for prophecy because you have a room full of people and they just say what's in their heart some of them are gonna be like you're in sin and God wants you to repent you know they're gonna just say random things that aren't right or at least aren't maybe they're even right but maybe they're not appreciated and they're killing the vibe and and so how do you how do you filter this after encouraging them to say just anything they have a rule you can only encourage you can only lift up you can only edify that's the rule for prophecy he gets into that in lots of details and Chris valeton talks about a lot too the only prophecies that are allowed in Bethel are anything encouraging and if it's wrong hey at least it was encouraging now this has led to another that's not that's artificial right look at the prophecies in the Bible like they're not all encouraging even in the scriptures of the New Testament they're not all encouraging but since we're only going to look at Jesus and Jesus you know actually I mean he actually does prophesy and it's not encouraging either I mean look at what he says the core is in a beside you know I mean yeah I don't understand how they even where do they get that from that doesn't even fit with their first pillar but if you listen to crisp a lot and you'll hear he contradicts himself all the time and he don't he doesn't think it matters that's just the truth of his teaching it's he's constantly contradicting himself anyway I don't have videos too queued up for that so I'll move forward but but yeah this has led to some weird things yeah they only allow encouraging but they've now everything's prophetic right they look for prophecy in like the butterfly flew by my window that was prophecy the way the moon looked in the in you know behind the tree that was prophecy so they may also have prophetic art they have prophetic dance and they have something nowadays called destiny cards some of the only some of minority of them are using that are basically the Christian equivalent of a tarot card and they take these prophetic art pieces and they put them on cards and then they deal them for people and they look for it inspires the prophetic it's it's very quickly moving to something really kind of weird and even a little scary there are consequences when we tolerate too much error we should tolerate a certain amount of error yeah but not when it comes to the theological standards of who Jesus is not when it comes to what it means to speak in the name of the Lord and that sort of thing so are people really getting healed at Bethel yeah are people really not getting healed at Bethel who think they are yeah I have stories and testimonies of both of those things is it really based on simple faith in God's revelation no it's based on an artificial filtered theology where you go to the Bible and you take certain things out you ignore the rest and you call them superior truths but here's my final thoughts and then I'll take your guys questions please send them right in the chat send them just post your questions up there a Gia's gonna send those to me in just two seconds any questions you guys have here's my final thoughts though there's a chance that someone at Bethel is gonna watch this video maybe even one of the leaders the I don't think they tend to pay attention to videos like this I hope they realize I'm not just attacking I'm trying to discern but here's my thoughts I would say first this if Bill Johnson we're watching right now I would say this pastor bill thank you actually first let me start with this you actually inspire me to pray more to trust God more to seek more and I'm really grateful for that I am able to watch your videos and receive inspiration through a lot of what you say but I can't follow your theology or your hermeneutic of how you interpret the Bible I think it's dangerous and the way that you practice it in practical life encourages I think error for the sake of getting at some sort of spiritual revival that isn't exactly genuine you say you won't let experience change your theology but I would encourage you to think about it this way if experience doesn't matter then why fabricate or exaggerate or distort your experiences like waving your hands if you're healed when you know that a lot of that might not be real if experience isn't the thing then why why bother working so hard at creating an experience because that's what I see is there's a there's a filtered theology and there's an emphasis on experience John 5:19 Jesus says this he says then jesus answered and said that most assuredly I say to you the son of man can do nothing of himself but what he sees the father do for whatever he does the son does in like manner now here's interesting bill this is for you is you teach that the father sometimes does what he sees you doing yeah I've got video where you're saying you can put a mark on somebody through prayer and then God says oh my son or daughter made a mark so I'm gonna go do what they said and so I can proclaim truths that that God's spirits not guiding me to proclaim and then God will respond to that but if you're really following Jesus when He healed people he only did what he saw the father doing so he had some sort of spiritual knowledge that God was that the father was actually healing that person and then he went in and did it so he didn't just assume everyone was to be healed although he healed everybody he came across it seems just about so I think that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and I think you encourage encourage error this isn't just messing up but this is saying things as they're from God when you have no reason to think that they're from God so the movement that you're creating is artificial and it's you cannot have error like that without having consequence we reap what we sow so I'd encourage you to keep your zeal but change your theology so what I'm gonna do right now guys is open it up to your questions thanks for joining me I'll bring up our our live chat here as well here we go so Elizabeth Hernandez says is it due to our lack of faith that we cannot heal it seems like Jesus Jesus's appointment appointed his disciples to do this are we not his disciples I'm just trying to understand this is the thing they're all the only thing I would do to change like save bills theology on unhealing would be to add that sometimes it probably is God's will that someone's not healed for a time I mean that seems to be very clear in Scripture I think from clear teachings not just from taking a you know one portion of a text but yeah absolutely faith is one of the reasons why people are not healed I can't escape that that's definitely true we see that consistently in Scripture that faith but here's the question I have to follow that up with am I supposed to stir up my faith and if I do stir up my faith does that guarantee a healing that's where I I have a problem I think that even if you have true faith and pulse torn the flesh is a great example of this Paul wanted to be delivered from something very bad in his life some very unpleasant experience that was ongoing that was physical and he prayed three times and the Lord said now my grace is enough for you see Paul had faith and he had God's ear and he prayed and God said no this is part of my plan it's to keep him humble according to Scripture so yes faith is one of the checkboxes for healing it's one of the checkboxes but it's not the only one so um I I hope that offers some balance for you from truth and grace it says ask Mike if he thinks maybe their idea of sanctification is not just off it seems we need to experience these hardships my grace is sufficient actually you know what um truth and grace I've watched a ton of their videos they do not preach that it's okay to live a sinful lifestyle in any way you're not saying they did but just to bring the clarity to it they do teach that you need to go out there and live a godly and righteous life and they really strongly preach that and I think that's a good thing so I applaud them for that and they do teach that that through hardships we learn and stuff like that but they do kind of stay away from teaching too much on that the New Testament talks about that a lot you know like I can think of James that we're being perfected and first Peter how like refining fire and all this kind of stuff that there's there's definitely this refinement that goes on through our trials and sufferings they do tend to shy away from that except when they say we went through that trial we went through that hard time and of sickness or illness and what we learned was we learned how to pray harder we learned how to have more faith for healing and then they move on so when it comes to sickness or illness that's where they stop doing the biblical thing on that issue also from Elizabeth Hernandez did Jesus ever say no to healing anyone it depends on what you mean by Jesus right so in Jesus is three-and-a-half years of ministry on the earth he never said no to healing anyone not that I'm aware of in Jesus is 30 years of life before that ministry he said no to healing everyone he didn't heal anybody he came across as far as we know in the time since then when the Apostles were going out there was seasons where people were constantly healed in the book of Acts Jesus said yes to healing those people there's times where like Paul says he leaves trophimus sick I think it was what it was he left him sick in my Letus I think was the city and so Jesus didn't heal him Paul prays for healing and the Lord Jesus tells him my grace is sufficient for you so he says no to healing him there and there's times in other places in the Old and New Testament where God doesn't heal people but the problems when you say I'm only going to take the three-and-a-half years of ministry and make that my whole theology and I think that that's unbiblical to do that because that same spirit of Christ is the one who inspired the rest of the scriptures to from Don Schneider it says does this movement have a conception or prediction of in times it kind of resembles RCC that sort of overlooks revelation since they believe they have a representative of Christ on earth okay the what is their eschatological view they think I think their Dominion theology and they think that they're supposed to sort of bring in the kingdom to the earth this is wide so when you hear Bill Johnson if you hear is teaching a lot you'll hear me use the phrase disciple the nations and then he'll counter it with this he goes I don't mean disciple individuals in each nation Ami's disciple the nation so he sees the churches infiltrating the world and taking over not with like a militant militaristic style takeover but with a servanthood mentality but he sees basically it's a Dominion theology so they think that they're supposed to take over the world I know that sounds that sounds creepy but that's that's whether it's what they're thinking yeah and I mean it I'd rather have them running the world and a lot of people that are running the world today though I'll give him that but I think that eschatology is wrong but that's where they're at I believe and from Judah Matthews this is Mike can you recommend some teachers or resources to help us be more big excuse me become more biblically thinking or biblical thinking there it is ministries like yours that are dedicated to biblical truth and not ideology well I'll say I think that having a variety of teachers is really great so I okay I love like some of the teachers I really like enjoy listening to on a regular basis I like podcasts and online and stuff like that this might surprise some of you guys I listen to James White I really love James White and shout out to James White I love him he'd probably chew me out but I love him anyway I listen to dr. Brown dr. Michael Brown I love his stuff too and he's actually defended Bill Johnson and I think he's one of the guys that defended the person but didn't look at the teachings very carefully and I've also I love I like even the Calvinist guys like RC sprawl and John MacArthur and and those guys but I don't only listen to them and I don't think you should either I also think Layton flowers is a great guy to check out especially if you're hearing a lot of Calvinists and you want to hear the other side of the story Layton flowers has some really good content on that and forgive me Layton for saying this but he does better in his teaching videos than he does in his debates debate is a very difficult thing to do and he's gone against James white who's like the king debater you know so I would say his teaching videos are gonna be even better for clarity than the debate issues so those are just some people who you could look at I I'm just saying these are guys that I found that I've liked online I don't think there's any one person who I would say that's it take their word for it and just run you know don't worry about other things I can't do that with anybody don't do it with me don't make me the only guy you listen to don't do that with anybody else there's only one word we take and run and that's the Word of God everybody else is just a commentator they're just common potatoes so there's I mean there's some ideas for you they all have their shortcomings so do I now but that's how it is so Mike oh you know who else I I really like just for thinking maybe Greg Cocoa's got some really cool stuff I used to listen to his stuff on online all the time really neat really neat thinker and I like when he handles biblical issues even though he's not teaching scripture verse by verse so from Judah Matthew's Mike what about Matthew 21 21 if you have faith and do not doubt you can come in a mountain to throw itself into the sea and will and it will be done I don't even know for sure how I'm supposed to interpret this passage I don't want to water it down I'm very cautious to not do that but mm-hmm here's the question all I have to have is faith right okay is that the only verse that talks about answered prayer no there's lots of other scriptures so let's put them all together to get a full teaching on prayer instead of just one verse by itself definitely faith is is a huge like thing that levers the the movement of prayer and the answers of prayer but also James tells us that you do not receive because you ask amiss that you may spend on your pleasures so faith might be there but it was the prayer was for your own pleasure it also says in first John that that would ever we asked his will if we have asked for his will we have what we ask of him so God's will matters in prayer too so the best thing I can do is to try to put all of this together and say nothing is impossible through prayer nothing is impossible it's simply faith that's required regardless of the size of the problem but I still say Lord check my motives Lord let it be according to your will I think that that's appropriate that answers all those questions and perhaps if God is the one imparting me this gift of a faith in that moment of prayer maybe a 10 that's showing me I'm gonna cast that mountain into the sea and I go I believe you Lord Lord in Jesus name I pray you command that mountain and then it happens so maybe he's the one that's providing some of that faith as well maybe I'm not 100 sure on how to answer that just don't isolate that verse from all others from chavita or CH for Vita it says have you ever heard Bill Johnson clearly preach the gospel message no no but I've heard him agree with the gospel and I've heard it several times right we believe in the gospel Eve in judgment we believe you need Jesus and you need to give your life to Jesus and believe in his death and resurrection so I've heard them kind of it's always an odd though if there's always a big but at the end of it so it's like this we believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ but we think that signs and wonders point to the gospel and then it's all about signs and wonders I think that they have a distorted view of the gospel in that it's really focused on signs and wonders more than anything else I've never heard simply a gospel message from him I would like to hear that I have looked for that online I've looked a lot a lot a lot send me the message if you know of it I'd love to hear it that would be great from Karl Wellborn do they teach against the non-negotiables like the triune God salvation is by grace through faith virgin birth sinlessness of Christ's death burial and physical resurrection they teach most of those but I have not heard any discussion of the Trinity I don't I haven't her specifically heard them say the virgin birth although I'm pretty sure did they believe that the death burial and resurrection yes this the sinlessness of Christ yes I have heard all those things in the teaching at one point or another from Rona 5 doesn't Bill Johnson teach little God's mentality no not exactly so like Kenneth Copeland does right he's like we're all little gods and I mean Kenneth Copeland's like like if you don't think he's weird like you're not paying attention but but Bill Joss is very different kind of school right they although they will partner sometimes I think I think these groups maybe not him personally but the groups will definitely partner together so what does he teach about this he teaches something like this if I can summarize the teaching I heard in one of his videos he said and when Jesus became flesh right the word became flesh and an eyes I am walking in in Christ and I'm giving out prophecies and I'm and I'm speaking out words of healing the word is becoming flesh again in me what does he mean by that I have no idea like I mean I get the vibe I get the the feeling of it but I don't know the meaning of it and I don't think the people at Bethel do either in fact they would be like Mike well you're not spiritual enough to know it's spiritually discerned and I'll be like okay go for it you know he teaches around issues and they always teach big-picture topics so when it gets to nitty gritty black and white this is true this is not that's pretty rare I had to work really hard to find the quotes I did in the videos I did if you've tried to listen to their videos you probably will just get inspired and then you'll be like no I don't totally agree but I feel really inspired good be inspired take the truth and run with it but but that's pretty much my my response there never heard him say anything specifically about being little gods so Wow that took a lot to prepare and I hope that it's really fruitful for you guys they're getting ready to ramp up all of their all of their their outreach stuff and by outreach I mean they want to change the church not just the world and they're ramping this a big time over the next few years so I think a video like this sitting online can be incredibly fruitful I think it can help people have clarity know that they're actually hearing quotes and it's doing better than just demonizing but it's pointing out the real issues I hope it's been beneficial for you guys I'm not sure what I'll do I'll be doing next week I haven't had any time to prepare think about it just been real busy thinking about doing a doing this stuff today so Lord bless you guys in closing I'll just say this let's not let's not discount healing or prophecy or the work of the Holy Spirit in a person's life because we see someone doing things a little off if anything what their movement tells me is how hungry people are to see the movement and work of the Holy Spirit in genuineness so why don't we redouble our energy and effort in that way and then we'll take well not throw out the baby with the bathwater I think these are our brothers and sisters in Christ Ethel's not a not as Church full of demons I think her church full of people that are sincere who have some things off and and we don't want to copy those things if nothing else but we still wanna I I we still fellowship with them I was still called in my brothers and sisters in the Lord absolutely so so god bless you guys I think I think I'm all done have

Channel: Mike Winger

Views: 849,675

Rating: 4.5654879 out of 5

Keywords: Bill Johnson theology, Bill johnson teachings, Bill johnson gospel, bethel movement, new apostolic reformation, Kris Vollotton, Bill Johnson prophecy, Bill Johnson teaching on healing, Jesus is perfect theology, Bill johnson examined, What is Bill Johnson's theology, bethel house of generals, bethel apostolic center, is bethel church a cult, is bethel church biblical, Bill Johnson's theology, what does Bill Johnson teach, what is bill johnson's theology

Id: r3tEv26OMTU

Length: 79min 15sec (4755 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 13 2018