Being Awkward, Confidence, and Vulnerability ft. hJune

like even even sheesh do you know sheesh no is that a person or a thing okay i'll do it once for you okay are you ready [Music] awesome nice to meet you dr k nice to meet you too what do you go by friend um you can call me harrison or you can call me asian doesn't really matter um what would you what would you prefer um i think most people call me june june okay june it is then are we going to be able to are are we doing a video interview today june no no no i don't usually do face gun okay sure so then let me just make a quick adjustment okay um so tell me a little bit about what you'd like to talk about today and how i can be helpful oh i think i want to talk about like maybe three topics maybe maybe one of the three topics if we have enough time sure um i think one of them is like um like opening up in in friendships and like relationships because i feel like um i can make friends really easily but at the surface level because i feel like um if i if i think of like really close friends right like best friends like people usually open up about like super personal stuff but then like i tend to never do that to other people where i talk about myself because i feel like i don't really have a moment where i feel like i need to do that because i feel like i deal with it alone anyways but then because i don't do that i feel like most friendships end up just at the surface level and i want to change that somehow why do you want to change that because i want closer friends and what makes you want closer friends i know it's kind of a weird question i think having a lot of friends is actually not as good as having a few really close friends so you value close friendships have you ever had a close friend uh yeah i like close friends from high school okay yeah go ahead sorry yeah we were able to get like you know really close but um as time goes on you know like you kind of drift apart right because absolutely everyone goes different paths so there's not that many times that you can like catch up with them so you meet new friends that are for example like if your streamer you meet other streamer friends and what do you think it is that makes it hard for you to open up hmm i just don't feel the need to like it's just like kind of random to just talk about personal stuff with someone that you just met not too long ago yeah so that's the first thing i you know i asked you kind of a weird question which is like why do you want close friends because i think the first the first question is is really like to think a little bit about you know is there is there a part of you that wants to open up but can't or i know this sounds kind of weird but like another possibility is that you sort of know theoretically that like people have close friends and you've had close friends before but it's actually not something that you actually need right now what do you think about that i think that also ties into my relationships too where um like if you don't open up to anybody then how are you supposed to get emotionally attached to them right do you want to be emotionally attached to people yeah i think i i'm not i'm not one to get like super lonely and stuff like that but i think especially with you know the coveted stuff like i feel like um if i do this i might end up single until i'm like 40 or something okay and are you so so i know this sounds weird june but like is the reason that you want to open up to people because you want to avoid being single at the age of 40. no no no why do you not the reason why okay that's very helpful no i just feel like it's it's just better to have you know like let's say i do have a moment where i do need people right then i don't really have that moment right now but i know later on there's eventually gonna be you know moments like that where i need someone but then like if i never did that with anyone then it would be kind of weird to just like do it out of the blue right yes but i do love listening to other people though okay so so i know this is going to sound kind of weird june and maybe i'm just missing something because i sometimes i when i can't see people's faces i'll like miss play a little bit so apologies but but i'm hearing you sort of say a lot of logical reasons why it's good to open up to people like oh like what if i need someone one day right so so but that's kind of interesting because what i'm hearing there is that i should open up to people so if we thought to think about like there's like what i'm hearing from you is that you know in your mind you're kind of saying oh it's like it's a good idea to open up and form connections with people but there's a difference between like it being a good idea and it being something that you want i think i want to i think you do too but i do see it in a logical way as well yep so i think this is where like we've got to get underneath the logic to try to get at what the wanting is because when i ask you about your motivations i get a logical answer does that make sense yeah that makes sense you see i watched your interviews before and then you'd always ask why why do you what do you say that i thought that was very interesting and that was happening to me so cool what i'm confused you just lost me you're getting to the bottom of it and i usually don't do that with myself yeah i just thought that was really cool so so i think that what we're seeing here i know this sounds kind of weird but like so like june this is going to be weird because like i'm going to try to get you to open up right but that's not what you want to do you want to want to open up does that mean yeah so you want to be someone who wants to open up yes but you don't actually want to open up hmm i think i just don't know how to like how do how do people get to the point where people open up yeah totally totally fine so we'll we'll we'll try to get you there okay june okay so a big piece of this is going to be like so what i'm when i say that you are someone who wants to be someone who wants to open up so like you're striving to be someone who opens up right because that's good and that's healthy and you just don't know how to so if we think about is that fair are we on the same page now so if we think about what keeps people from opening up like so it's almost like something's holding you back and so the the blockage is between opening up like i don't know how to say this but like you want to be someone who opens up so there's something holding you back from being what you want to be does that make sense so we're going to dig into that so can you tell me about your relationships uh like friendship was you use the word relationships i don't know what you're referring to there whatever you mean by that oh i meant like friendships and then you know also relationships because i feel like well okay just to you know talk about myself a little bit please um like right out of high school i went to college and then um around the same time i started playing this game called rust okay so it's like a survival you know fps kind of game and then all i did really was you know play that game until like 18 to like 23. okay so basically my entire adulthood was playing that game and then eventually i made youtube videos and then i became a youtuber and then i started streaming and then i became streamer and only recently where you know i'm kind of getting burnt out of rust so i'm like venturing out into other games okay and then i met a lot of like new friends so because i made a lot of new friends i wanna like i like them a lot and i want to get close with them right but because i don't i haven't usually done that like i don't even i i don't like small talk so like even at the first step like it's already doomed you know what i mean what why is it tuned doomed because i feel like if you don't even small talk then how are you supposed to get to the the deep talk okay that makes sense it makes a lot of sense so what i'm hearing you say is that like generally speaking the way that relationships progress is that you have some amount of small talk and then you progress to deep talk and do you say that you don't like small talk or are you not good at it i'm probably not good at it okay where do you get that idea hmm i just don't know what to say when we're talking about like surface level stuff do you know what to say when you're talking about deep level stuff i think so i'm really good at like listening to other people talk about deep stuff but then when someone asks me it's like i don't really know what to say because let's say like someone's talking about like super emotional stuff right and then they ask me like was there a very like emotional moment for you or like that i don't really know what to say because it's not really about like i think this also ties to my other topic that i will talk about with you um i feel like i'm too emotionally moderate and what i mean by that is like i never get like super depressed but also i don't get super happy either okay so like there's not that many like moments of vulnerability that i can really talk about with people yeah do you think that that's a problem um i think if i don't talk about stuff like that with people then it's not really like a two-way thing right and you want it to be a two-way thing yeah okay can i think for a second june yes can you tell me about your friends from high school um well we're all gamers we actually met uh playing league of legends together and uh they're all very smart so basically i'll like sit with them and then the teacher will think that i'm super smart too so are you not super one of them uh i would say i'm above average but i'm not smart as them definitely not supported them okay all right so t you would sit with them and then the teachers would think you were super smart [Laughter] what was that like oh that was great so like in english clash class um i sat next to the smartest kid in my school which is my best friend and then the second smartest so the english teacher was like yo this guy must be smart he must be like third smartest or something so even though i write like yeah maybe like uh 86 level she still gave me like a 95 level great hmm i'm confused by that so like no because she has like a pre-conception of what i will be like so like whatever she reads that i write it was it was better than what it was okay so you're saying that she had a cognitive bias that caused her to inflate the value of your work yes okay so let me ask you a question okay because you're a super logical dude in above average intelligence so how would we know if you are a person who gets the benefit of a cognitive bias from a teacher or you're misjudging your own skill because of a cognitive bias on your part [Music] how do we know if the paper is really in 95 and that you believe you're you deserve an 86 which is incorrect or whether your paper is an 86 and you actually deserve it and it gets inflated to a 95. hmm i wouldn't know that i think i do that a lot though i think you do too tell me tell me other other ways that you do that so for example if i want to get like really good at something i would look at people that are really good at that specific thing so for example let's say it's like gaming right then if i want to be really good at the game i would look at the very best the very best in the game and then i would constantly like try to strive to get there and then i would just always assume that i'm always like under yeah i think that's a good and bad thing say more gene i'd agree 100 explain that to us please because i think that always like keeps like a fire underneath you to keep going but then um you wouldn't really have like satisfaction of getting somewhere because you're always under that level that you want to get to see that's another thing um i think i really hate the feeling of like being mediocre yep you and me both because because like ever since high school i tried a lot of things right so in high school i tried like well i still sing like for fun but i really like singing i really like dancing like basketball like i like gaming obviously um but i felt like i was like never the best at something i was maybe like number two or like number three like above average is number two or number three above average i mean i guess technically the answer is yes but i don't think about number two or number three like i wouldn't you know like if i think about the silver medalist at the olympics i hope like when i think about that person i'd the the words above average is not what comes to mind um but then i think how i was looking at it was like maybe i'm number two in this school but then like i'll be like oh okay the number one in my school is this guy but then that guy is like number 500 million in the world sure so june how can you tell me about like where like what growing up was like for you um in what way like where did you grow up what who lived with you at home oh i lived in vancouver i grew up here i'm korean um so basically i learned korean first and then learned english i have both my parents living with me even until now i have one older brother one older sister and they're much older than me so i always play like diablo 2 and play the same games that they've played and and i think yeah go ahead i think it was a it was a good childhood i can't really think of any like traumas sure i don't i don't have anything like super bad i can think of like a time where i was like super sad yeah that's what i mean by being too emotionally moderate like i don't really like take things too seriously so i feel like there's no real significant highlight of my life yet which kind of feels empty sometimes can i think for a second june for sure let me just think okay did your did you compare yourself a lot to other people when you were young or did your parents like sort of compare you to other people when you were young um i think i just did that myself a lot my parents don't really do that do you have a sense of of how you started doing that when i see like a good quality in people like i want to [Music] try to do the same so i would see that quality in my my brother or my sister or maybe my classmates or maybe like someone older than me or something i see on tv or whatever so and and i know this sounds kind of weird but like uh so i'm getting a sense that you strive to be more than you are it's always about moving forward no no hmm always striving to move forward and the things that i'm passionate about not in like life or my career wise but if i really like gaming for example i'm gonna always strive to be better yeah okay so so what i'm hearing you say is that it's true for the things that you're passionate about but not like every random thing yeah okay and so i have a weird question june what do you like are you good enough i think i'm good enough if you're good enough what makes you want to be better because it doesn't give me satisfaction then why do you think you're good enough well i think being good enough doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to give you satisfaction what does give you satisfaction hmm i think more than like career like milestones just like having fun with friends probably because i remember like distinctly like i so within the russ community i made like three tournaments last year called uh trust and rust it's like where we uh brought all the people from the russ community together all the creators all the streamers all the youtubers and then we did like a huge event and then we raised over like i think 200 000 in that year but then like when i was done i was like oh wow that was great but then that that feeling was more like relief oh it's it's over but i wasn't really like super satisfied but then when i play video games with friends and it was like a really fun night i feel like i get more satisfaction from that than something like doing something really cool like if you think logically raising all that money for charity and like helping all those people is awesome right but didn't really give me that much satisfaction okay so june um i'm noticing a couple of disconnects which which i probably need to like try to understand you a little bit better here um so on the one hand you're kind of telling me that like you always are looking at number one right and and you kind of recognize that that's like adaptive because it sort of like keeps the fire going and keeps you improving and so i i'm sort of i think we're running into a couple of different like conflicts because i think if i ask you are you good enough i wonder if i'm getting a logical answer but like you know there's a part of me that sort of gets the sense that you're striving to be number one and until you're number one you're not going to be like good enough or satisfied what do you think about that yeah i think you're right i think um good enough is like more like a logical answer yes yeah so so like if i like because because like you said like you know you're not like you don't have like super low self-esteem or anything so like you think you're like a decent dude right you're above average just a cut above mediocre why is that funny sorry no i think it's i think we hit a nerve there [Music] now i think a lot of people would be satisfied if they were above average but even if we even if i do like something really cool i just i don't know there's like i think it just stems back to like emotionally moderate i so i i agree so we'll get to so first of all june i want to commend you bro like you've done a really good job of tying together i think a lot of things that feel like that can seem really far apart but i really do think have a shared root so i think the emotional moderation the inability to open up all of this talk about like you know being like never the smartest kid in the class and essentially like a bias that causes you to devalue where you are and and like what i mean by that is like you know you're getting 95s and you're friends with the two smartest kids in the class but you sort of don't think you're of yourself okay maybe i'm the third smartest kid and i think if we if we look at like how that works it's because your mind will find some the second that you start to get towards the top what does your mind do i know it's kind of like a really weird abstract like open-ended question so i'm just going to toss it out and then i'll give you like an answer but i'm curious if you're kind of can read my mind there for a second right so like like we kind of we kind of heard you say like okay even if i think about the number one in my high school like what is that number one compared to the rest of the world so like your mind plays this your mind plays this game of constantly moving goal posts yeah i think so right so even if you rise to the top like what does your mind do does it let you say good job june you're number one no it doesn't do that what does it do move the goal post absolutely right so you're on this like treadmill and no matter how far you move forward like you're never going to be satisfied what do you think about it i'm trying to find ways to get that satisfaction yeah well so that's because like so you're so you're someone who's like walking on a treadmill instead of walking on a path and then you're asking me how do i get to the end of the road right where i think the problem is that like as long as you're on a treadmill it'll never end that's true so like even if you figure out what the treadmill is and what the path is yeah so i think the treadmill is that your mind continuously compare like so as soon as you get like even if you became the biggest rust youtuber then your mind is like okay but what about the biggest rust streamer and then if you become the biggest streamer then it's like oh but they're people who play other games who are bigger than i am and then you start comparing yourself to them um so what i'm hearing from you is you don't think that way in like career-wise though do you feel satisfied in your career um i feel like right now because i don't have a game that i enjoy like if i'm not passionate about something i don't really have that drive like right now i don't have that drive yeah so let let me toss something back at you okay so you said that like if i have a fun night with my friends then i feel satisfied yeah like i go to bed like satisfied oh that was a good day yep yep and so what goal post did you hit by having a good night with your friends [Music] like are you thinking about being number one no right so this is like an important thing to understand that satisfaction doesn't come from hitting the end of the road it comes from not walking on the road but the second you have a goal post and especially if you move the goal post you're never going to be satisfied because we've seen moments where you have been satisfied but i think i know this sounds kind of like now we get to some of those generic you know yoga calendar stuff but i think like in those moments you're like living in the present you're like today i'm gonna play with my friends and we're gonna do some cool stuff and like then you can feel satisfied but when you start living in the future when you start living towards goals when you start like thinking about becoming something your mind won't let you be satisfied because like no matter how good you do it's gonna advance the goal posts [Music] what do you think about that yeah i think just like probably finding other ways to get satisfaction like whether that's like you know building friendships or i think one thing that did help me recently is like having another avenue where i feel like i'm always making progress so like that could be like going to the gym or something yeah so i think so even if my goal post is still there on somewhere else i feel like i'm still moving on a different path yeah so june now we get to something really hard okay like this is probably gonna be like really challenging because i think you're so um you've come to rely on this part of yourself so much as a cornerstone of your success i think it's going to be really hard to let it go but like you know if you are progressing progress can't come without dissatisfaction does that make sense like you're always striving to be more but like if you're striving to be more if you want to be better that means that you're not happy with where you are does that make sense that makes sense so like i think there's this weird thing going on where like what you use to motivate you dooms you to be unsatisfied because it's never enough right like you need to see the progress to feel good about yourself but that progress implies that like you're not good enough because you need to be better and if you need to be better then like you're not good enough like those two come hand in hand does that make sense that makes sense okay so then like and this is where i think we see this like fundamental idea that you have that you're not good enough play out in the school english teacher example because if you believe you're not good enough and you get a 95 what does your mind conclude about why you got the 95 was it because you did a good job because i sat next to two two kids there you go right so like it's weird because your mind starts from the foundation of like i'm not good enough so even when life tells you like hey man you did a great job you're like uh no it's actually a cognitive bias because of where i sit in a classroom my score is nine points higher than where it deserves to be like just think about that for a second bro [Music] like i'm sure that teachers have cognitive biases but usually those cognitive biases have to do with people who kiss their ass not like where they sit in the classroom that's true and they usually don't have like a nine point swing unless you really are like you know stuff in your nose way up there [Laughter] right okay i definitely didn't do that yeah so it's it's interesting right and so now we get to opening up because like i i know this sounds kind of weird but like if you open up to people like what do you think they'll see um the vulnerable side yeah but what is in the vulnerable side what is in the vulnerable side yeah so this is where i'm going to try to help you out okay so like i'm going to give you a hypothesis whereas like i think that sometimes the reason that we have difficulty opening up is because we believe that what is on the inside is ugly like that's the biggest reason to not be vulnerable because you don't want to show people like what's ugly right like you can think about people who like are self-conscious about going to the beach because of the body that is underneath their clothes like who's self-conscious about going to the beach it's like people who are like embarrassed to have you know like a flabby stomach or whatever and so like like the people who hesitate to be vulnerable are the ones that have something to hide does that make sense that makes a lot of sense but if i try to think like what things i can talk about i don't i don't really know i'm trying to think like am i am i hiding something because i'm trying to like you know listen to what you're saying right but i don't know if i have have that yep i make sense i i think that it's it seems it seems very inaccessible to me talking to you so we'll get to that in a second but something that i i want you to kind of play around with is like you know i suspect june that you know i mean i don't know this could be wrong but like i think there's this weird like complex of like not being good enough which strives you to be better so you love it but that also means that like you never view yourself as good enough and if you never view yourself as good enough like it can be hard to open up to people because like what are you displaying to them like what do you want to show the world like what do you want people to see you as jun just a fun guy to be around yeah and so if you start telling people like and what are you i think i think i'm a fun guy to be around okay right so i think this is where if you want to be a fun guy to be around like and you start sharing your vulnerabilities with them like what are you then [Music] fun friend i don't think so man right because i don't think you're fun anymore so now we get to like a couple of interesting questions these are shots in the dark okay so on the one hand like maybe we're just digging like i don't really know the first question is have you ever opened up to someone and like been hurt by it have i opened up to someone and been hurt by it yeah um and specifically like we can even like i can ask you very specifically like has there been a case where you felt like someone pulled away from you because you showed them a side of june that is not fun and fun to be around that's the thing i don't think i've done that yet okay that's totally fine so other option is have you been on the receiving end of that where have there been sort of situations where like people have opened up to you or and then like you've sort of seen or you yourself have withdrawn from someone because they show you a part of them i know you're a really good listener so this is probably unlikely but have there been situations where like you kind of pulled back or you saw other people pull back from someone who's vulnerable i think i've seen other people that like told me vulnerable things and then pulled back themselves because they you know kind of exposed that and maybe they thought that i would think differently of them or whatever yeah but how and what ended up happening there so they pulled back and did you let them or um i think it's slowly kind of like drifted apart probably june i feel like we're missing something what do you think i think um i think it's um i think we're focusing too much on like not being good enough part because i don't that's not my main issue okay so what should we be focusing on instead and what's your main issue that's very helpful feedback by the way thank you trying to think as well i think in terms of like friendships and relationships i think like for example let's say in high school i was probably afraid to start a relationship because if i did i was scared of the aftermath because i hate conflict so i hate the awkwardness and i feel like um in the friendships things too if i open up and if someone else opens up and then they felt uncomfortable with that then there's the awkwardness as well okay what do you what help help me understand what you hate about the awkwardness [Music] um you know like the awkwardness when you let's say date someone and then like you're in the front same friend group or or whatever and then there's like that tension there as well like if you didn't date it wouldn't be awkward for anyone involved so you're trying to protect people or yourself from the awkwardness yeah i think for myself yeah so june do you mind if i you don't have to answer this so i'm gonna ask a pretty specific personal question are you in a relationship right now no have you been in a relationship that's serious before um not a serious one can you tell me about a relationship that you have been in uh yeah it's quite a long time ago though yeah tell me about it um it was more of like the girl liked me so i was like oh a cute girl likes me so you know i got into the relationship um but then i think i learned from that relationship that you shouldn't really like get into a relationship just because you're lonely and the other person is lonely and then you know you have less like infatuation because like the aftermath is like oh i don't want to see that person anymore oh i don't want to see their like friends anymore either so i feel like just makes everything like kind of uncomfortable okay so what happens in a relationship um it's mostly like just too different yeah so so that's maybe why the relationship kind of ended but can you help me understand like what it looked like from the outside or what the sequence of sort of events were well i was like super young i was like 14 so relationship since then no how do you feel about that [Music] i don't really have strong like super strong feelings about it but i do feel like i'm missing out because because i focus so much on like rust like from my 18 to like 23 like i didn't really travel that much i didn't really live life i didn't really date didn't really go outside so i do feel like i'm missing out and maybe that's like part of the reason why i'm not satisfied with all the other things because i'm only focused on one thing okay so when you say missing out how does that feel missing out how does that feel if that question is hard for you i can ask it a different way sure do you ever think about what the consequences of missing out are you don't know what it's like what does that mean for you going forward makes me curious really that's why i want to travel more once um it gets better with covert and stuff june do you ever feel like what i was expecting to hear was something along the lines of actually like being a little bit afraid that like once you've missed out like it's really hard because like now like everyone's kind of past you right and so if you try to like date someone sometimes people will feel like oh like she's gonna be more experienced than i am and like i'm not really gonna be sure like it'll be awkward do you ever have thoughts like that not really interesting okay see i think i know what kind of questions you're asking and i know i know the answers that could be said but like it's i don't know it's just not like that for me yep and i know i know i know people can be like oh he's just hiding it but like i don't my my feeling of the satisfaction is that it's it's that i don't really feel those things and that's what makes it feel empty yeah so it looks like what we're coming back to so i'm i'm really happy you said that june because i i don't think that just because you know so like we can it's just as important to close off the wrong paths as it is to find the right one so in medicine you know we have this concept called differential diagnosis and like you know if someone has a fever like maybe it's the flu maybe it's coveted maybe it's you know strep throat maybe it's lymphoma or lupus and sometimes in medicine we have to order tests not to necessarily find the right diagnosis but we'll order a test to make sure it isn't lymphoma in order test to make sure it isn't lupus and so we can almost use like a process of elimination approach and so i think i think part of what we're doing here today is sort of a process of elimination approach what do you think yeah i had a tough time answering those questions actually yep and if you think about it it's like really simple questions why do you think you have a tough time answering them because i think if you ask like like how do you feel about that right it's like that's the thing i didn't really feel anything about that yep and so i feel like i feel like that would be like a super mundane answer but then like if i said anything else it would be it'll be a lie yep and so how do you feel about giving me on dana mundane answers hey you know what i think i think i tied this together huh because because i don't have experiences like that i feel like that's why i can't open up because i don't want to i don't want to give boring answers okay okay yeah so you feel like the answers that you give when you open up aren't going to be good enough they'll be boring no i'm i'm being completely honest right now like i'm not trying to like i'm making sure honestly i'm talking i'm talking about other people though right because you say that like if i offer what's on the inside it's gonna feel bland to people yes right so like i'm just noticing an interesting theme like sure i get that it's bland and i'm not i i know i i get the sense you're being authentic with me i don't think you're trying to like you know hide i don't i genuinely don't think you're hiding but at the same time i do notice that there's sort of like a theme that like what you have to give isn't good enough yeah that could be a thing so then let me ask you this like so let's go let's go to the emotional moderation then so you you don't feel things quite as intensely as other people feel them and i'm very jealous of that so like if people are like super sad about something or like if someone's super ecstatic about something like i see that i'm like i wish i had that um have you ever felt super sad or excited about something super sad or excited about something i think i probably have but like in hindsight if i look back to it i think i always like downplay it so like during the moment i was probably super excited but then like if i look back like two years later i'd be like oh it wasn't that good so i don't remember that feeling as intensely as i probably had it when it happened so like if i try to look back right now like i can't really recall any specific moment to tell you um do you ever let me just think about this okay so june here's so i know this may be like a little bit unsatisfying but i'm gonna like toss out like a possibility okay so have you ever heard of this term alexithymia no so alexithymia is a condition in which you are not aware of what your internal emotions are so it's almost like you're colorblind to emotion so lexithymi is very common um in like three populations so like you know a lot of like asians are alexa thymic um indians too uh men and gamers so if you think about like the culture that you grew up in what was like was there a lot of emotion expressed in your household growing up no did your parents tell you that they loved you i think no okay i could see that i mean they are great parents yep and i could feel the love but we never verbally said it and i think at when i was like around 17 i think i had a feeling where i was like why is my family not like the ones i see in movies like the ones you see in movies are like saying oh i love you and like doing like all this affectionate stuff but then i realized that like part of the problem is not just my parents it's also me i was also afraid to say i love you like i would say like i love you too like girls like that i didn't even [ __ ] care about when i was younger but then i was so scared to say that to my mom right so i think starting from then i did start saying it to my mom and dad and then we are pretty regularly saying that now what made you scared to say that to your mom and dad it's embarrassing it was embarrassing at first what's embarrassing about it well i think growing up and not doing that kind of stuff and then all of a sudden doing it when you're an angsty teenager i think that's pretty um you're like going to put in a pretty vulnerable place i think and what if i say that what if i say that and then you know the response is like oh why are you saying that or whatever and and i'm curious is is that so we're talking about vulnerability and how people may respond to it um you know but it sounds like you've never been in a situation where you have opened up to someone so it sounds like you were actually vulnerable with your parents like you went on a limb and you said i love you and they said i love you too you're great june yes yeah so i feel like that's significant and relates to our conversation but i'm not quite sure how what do you think i think i think something's clicking i think um just like can't really expect other people to be vulnerable with me if i don't take the initiative to be vulnerable with them as well sure because that's like saying i love you to your mom or that's like i don't know sharing like something emotional with your friends what would you share i don't know that's what i'm trying to figure out yeah so i i feel like that's i feel like something clicked for me there too i don't know exactly what it is but it certainly has the themes of vulnerability going out on a limb being accepted you know and i think this is where when i when we talk about culture so i think that like like so you know june it sounds like you're good at singing sounds like you're good at dancing sounds like you're good at basketball it sounds like you're really good at rust and so when it comes to understanding our emotions that's a skill too right so like we we can be just like you can train your palate or train your eyesight or train your you know your reflexes your hand-eye coordination your ability to like get the ball in the basket you can also train yourself to understand what you feel on the inside and there are a couple of different things that i think could be going on so i'm going to go like academic for a second and let's like forget yeah because because i'll ask you lots of questions about how you feel about stuff and you'll you generally give me umbrella terms so you'll say like uncomfortable or awkward but like what is awkward right so like usually awkwardness is an umbrella term that like means something like fear of judgment for feeling guilty for making like destroying your friend group right so when i think about like the actual emotions that people are feeling if you date someone in your friend group and then y'all break up there's actually a whole constellation of feelings there that we call awkward because we don't know how to define what they are okay i i gotta know right so like let's just think through what people could be feeling the first is you guys go to a party and then like all of your friend group is there or maybe even before the party starts it's like people are texting each other and then you feel guilty because like people don't know like who to text it's supposed to be fun but now that you and your girlfriend broke up the entire group like can't have fun anymore so maybe you feel guilty yes right but like guilty yeah but it's weird because like you don't like we don't put words to that or maybe you feel ashamed like maybe you feel like you know she has some friends in the friend group that are closer to her than closer to you and as she's crying every day like she's gonna make you look bad because the friends are gonna think oh you're an [ __ ] and so then like maybe you feel a little like you that can create all kinds of feelings maybe you feel a little bit shamed ashamed for hurting her maybe you feel a little bit like angry because she's talking [ __ ] about you and like since those are her friends better like they're gonna start thinking less of you and you don't deserve that [Music] does that make sense that people could kind of feel that way yeah that makes a lot of sense because i for me i was like oh awkward okay that encapsulates what i feel really well but now that you like break it down i can see what you mean that right so so and and then there's like they're even all like all kinds of kinds of other layers like what if you're crushing a little bit on someone else in the friend group and so like what's gonna happen there now that you broke up with this person or like what if one of your friends is crushing on her and now you broke up with her and now you've like that's complex it's very complex yeah i i don't like that at all okay so now i hate conflict of any kind okay so now we're getting somewhere so the first thing is like what do you hate about conflict i just don't want to have any bad blood with anyone why why i want all my interactions to be positive yeah so that's why you're not going to open up to anyone hmm maybe that's it right because you gotta like here's the thing like so here's the thing june so when it comes to alexa thymia what happens so this is what happens is like so culturally we're like taught to sort of suppress emotions so we don't like understand what they are so we use these terms like awkward right fine secondly when you play a lot of video games like literally video games will shut off like i was just talking about this i can't believe this but video games will shut off your amygdala which is like the part of your brain that experiences emotions yeah right absolutely right so like rust is like so so then what's happening is you've got like you know eight hours a day or whatever where you're like playing rust and so what you're doing is you're like switching off this emotional circuitry so it starts to get rusty and then on top of it it sounds like you're a dude and so like generally speaking especially like like culturally in most cultures that like you know women will emotionally express things to each other in a platonic way but as men like you know like like it's weird we use like the language of body right so like if i get like dumped by my girlfriend or if i break up with my girlfriend i'm not gonna come to you and say hey june i feel really bad about myself and then you're gonna say like yeah man sucks bro and then i'm not gonna say like yeah i'm now afraid i'm now afraid that i will never be able to find love again and that there's something fundamentally broken in me because i couldn't make this relationship work that's so true right what i'm gonna say you're gonna be like sucks bro and i'm like yeah man i'm gonna be like yeah it feels like she tore my nut sack off and you're like yeah man i know exactly what you're talking about yeah i see i see girls do that a lot like like being like super like open with each other and you know being like very descriptive with their words and like you know actually explaining their emotions well i i i'm really jealous of that because like if i try to uh like when you ask me about my emotions like i had no idea what to say yeah yep so so so i think that like the first problem here is alexa thymia because when i point it out to you right so like so even if we pay attention i don't know if this makes sense june but how are you feeling emotionally right now right now yeah um so i i'm not actually i'm not gonna feel like it's getting getting more clear yes okay so that's but that's not an emotion oh man right it's an emotion yeah yeah it's it's okay it's okay don't get frustrated so like what is what is the energy of the conversation now what's the energy it's a little bit more comfortable yep right so like there's a change in the tone of your voice you're laughing right whereas like before it clicked yeah before it's like hmm because i couldn't really think of like what to say right so so what's happening how to describe what i was thinking totally fine so like as we get closer to the truth some kind of emotion is going to come up and like it doesn't matter what it is it's like in what we're hearing you do is laughing like i can hear the animation in your voice and there's the hmm i can't help it yeah that's fine you don't need to help it like we're we're here to help it right it's it's totally fine you do you baby so so like it and that's where like okay so because now as i as i explain these emotions to you like you know i know this sounds kind of weird jun sometimes i say things that sound so basic they sound idiotic but when i point these possibilities out to you you understand exactly right so like but you can't understand when i point it out unless on some level you know if you truly did not feel those things and i said oh like maybe this person is feeling this you'd be like scratching your head you'll be like yeah i can sort of see that does that make sense yeah but you're like yes yes i can i can understand all those things i'm conflict-avoided like you call it conflict avoid it because that's what it looks like from the outside or that's the surface level way that you describe it but really what it is is like i can't tolerate people disliking me [Music] right and so if we think about you know why can't you tolerate people disliking you like there's an emotion there that could be fear i'm afraid i can't i can't tolerate people that i like disliking me yeah that's what scares me if someone random internet stranger didn't like me i wouldn't care at all absolutely so now my family or my friends or let's say like my community then i'll be like oh there must be something i did wrong and that would bother me a lot so so now we get to so there's origins to that but before we go there like now we get to the vulnerability so anytime you have a surface level relationship with someone and you be vulnerable with them what are the possible outcomes of that vulnerability [Music] you wouldn't talk to them anymore possibly right it either strengthens the relationship or shatters the relationship yeah and so like i can sort of see like why you may feel like i imagine that you almost feel paralyzed in these relationships like you're kind of stuck at the surface level and and i think if you really look into that one of the possibilities is that like you don't know how to make sure that when you vulnerably express something that it's going to advance the relationship forward yeah i have no clue you don't know how to say something that won't make things awkward not awkward like i can i can so it's not i can't i can't talk about like personal stuff without making it awkward that's what i mean yeah so so you don't know like you can talk about surface level stuff but like it's your avoidant like you don't want to make things awkward right june like scale of one to ten with friends of yours ten being is absolutely terrible one being is no big deal how much do you want to avoid awkwardness so they're not on any awkwardness right so like and now this is like the crux of it because if you're like you don't know how to be vulnerable with someone without making it awkward and so you're avoiding awkwardness at all costs the er ergo like you can't be vulnerable with anyone and so the challenge here is it comes down to control june like the whole point about advancing a relationship i know this sounds weird and it's gonna sound terrifying and if you're trying to figure out how you feel when i'm about to say what i'm gonna say the answer is terror when you are vulnerable with someone you are opening the door to awkwardness you are seeding control of the relationship and it could rupture how does that make you feel very afraid there it is and so now we see why you can't open up because that's the whole point about vulnerability right it's like i'm gonna let like vulnerability is like like literally the word means i'm going to let give you the opportunity to hurt me and right now you control your [ __ ] charismatic guy aren't you june you're so good at making friends you are so good at getting people to like you you can show this shell to people and you can like man everyone when they meet june within 15 minutes look at this chad okay dancer you're gassing me up a little bit too much right no but like come on bro like tell me i'm wrong tell me if i if i met you in real life in 20 minutes would i like you uh maybe i think the answer is yes right look at [ __ ] look at how humble you are i hope so how how down to earth is this guy right like he's not an arrogant prick he's just like so like how is that not the perfect response like just think about it right it's perfect i hope you like me man like i'm confident in myself and i hope you can appreciate that but you don't say no because you don't have [ __ ] low self-esteem and you don't say yes because you're not an arrogant prick it's so perfect it's so [ __ ] silky smooth man like teflon right here wd-40 oh man because people do like you right june uh i like to think so yeah yeah well it's still so humble right like it you can state it without being arrogant like i think you're you're probably charismatic and like now the problem though is that like that shell which you have which makes people like you is something that you have to discard and you have to make like risk making things awkward if you want to advance the relationship [Music] and like you know when it comes to girls i don't know if like the reason that you i mean i'm assuming that you're heterosexual because it sounded like you were talking about a girlfriend but yeah um you know like i mean i don't know if it's like because you've become a big youtuber and streamer that you don't really have opportunities to engage in relationships or there like have been girls that you've been interested in and like something has kept you from like asking them out yeah i've actually never asked someone out before okay so like here we go baby so like when you think about asking someone out what are you afraid of right i'm like it's like golden word is awkward there it is right there it is again and so like what like but awkward it's not a thing right it's just like it's like it's not a thing it's yeah it's an umbrella term like i get that it makes things awkward but like what is the awkwardness that you're trying to avoid is it like oh we're kind of friends right now and i don't want to screw that like what is like it's it's there jude like don't like you may not be able to find it but like i don't even know if we're gonna find it today but it's there right what like when you i guess i'm gonna have to guess because i don't know if you can find it but like so there's this girl like so tell me about it like can you do you feel okay talking about a girl or is that too awkward no i can talk i can talk so like talk to me about a girl that you liked okay i think there's only like two girls that i actually seriously liked and it's mostly people that were what i was super interested at the time and they were what i considered like like the most passionate about it i think i think passion is a big thing so like passion's a big turn on for you yes so one of them was like a martial art right and they would always like work super hard so like i would first get that attention and then it's like admiration oh wow this person's working so hard like i'll work as hard as them and then it turns into infatuation so it sounds like what do you mean by infatuation well you admire them as people first and then and then you start liking them okay and so and so like what did you want to like and that you thought about asking her out um the first girl actually did like me back but then i don't know i just like it was kind of gone the second girl was like in dance and it was like the same thing like she was like super good at dance and i was like wow like she was super passionate about it and then i liked her like as a person and as like a dancer and then i wanted to be i wanted to be like them and then i started liking them afterwards and then what happened the two are kind of different because the first one i kind of did say wait i didn't really ask her out but we kind of figured out that we liked each other but then it kind of fizzled out so i don't really have much to say about that what do you mean by it kind of fizzled out i think i just lost interest okay so june i want to just like point out to you what i'm seeing okay like let me know if you feel judged but like i'm seeing like blind spots in this conversation right so it's it's like you can trust me i do too yeah yeah yeah yeah so it seems really weird but that's just how it was yeah yeah no i i understand so i think what we've got to do is like increase your like ability to detect right so like like here's this girl you're infatuated with her you respect her as a human being like how are you not just like the perfect boyfriend jun like you respect her as a human first and then like you like you you like her you guys like each other and then it fizzles out it's like that sounds like lost interest maybe maybe it was because like if i if i really try to think about it i think um because i saw her in like such a positive light at first like once i got to know her maybe she wasn't what i expected and then it fizzled out is that the case i think that was the case for the first one okay what about the second one the second one i never really made a move what kept you from making a move probably just insecurity what does that mean because i like regarded her so highly i just didn't think that i'll be good enough i'm sorry have we talked about that before you not being good enough right so so now it's interesting because like you know were you afraid that things would get awkward if you asked her out um yeah because i enjoyed our company like even without dating but then if i cross that line that would be gone too yep so so that's the thing right so like remember like so this is why i think your relationship state okay so june this is tying together for me now okay may not tie together for you but it's seeming like we're kind of hitting these same notes like over and over and over again i don't know if it's because i'm making like i'm drawing a constellation out of stars and there really isn't like a horse in the sky it's just stars it's all over the place there's no there's no image with my constellation so maybe it's just me over interpreting because that's a bias of people in my profession is we like to come we like to listen to human beings and reduce them to simple patterns that we can divine out of our psychiatric brilliance so i could be falling into that trap but i really don't think so so here's what i'm hearing from you okay so the first thing is that like you like this person and then like the problem is that like at some point to advance the relationship you've got to take a risk right like and this is where like stuff comes together so there's this girl she's in dance like you respect her because she puts in the work like you put in the work it's something that you pride very heavily about yourself you may not be the smartest kid in the bunch you may not be the gold medalist but god damn it you're gonna at least get a bronze because like you can progress like you can put in the work and you can put in the time and here she is she's into dance she's probably in shape she's relatively hot and then like you know so you're like you're into her and you guys are friends because you're charismatic and you're a likable guy and then probably what happened is like a couple of things maybe you felt her out a little bit right like you kind of put out some signals like hey but like you never were too transparent about it because like you said with the first girl like you're pretty good at like sussing things out but you're never gonna ask directly you're never gonna make anything awkward right you're never gonna put her in the place of like hey i'm really into you like are you interested in going out because oh my god that would be so awkward what if she says no and so now the problem is that like there's this is where things really start to like come together in this terrible storm because if you're insecure about yourself that makes it even harder for you to risk if you were secure if you were good enough then you'd be okay rolling the dice because then it's i know it sounds weird june but it's not even rolling the dice at that point right like the risk is low the more confident you are in yourself yeah and so you strive for progress and you strive to be the gold medalist because if you're the gold medalist then you can roll the dice and it won't matter because you're so good like you you know that people will accept you even though that's not true like i know it's not true you know it's not true but it's like this kind of like clicks together in this weird way because you're always striving to be better always striving to be better always striving to be better and then one day if you're good enough then you can ask someone out and then there's no risk does that make sense yeah but now the problem is that like even with your relationships the very nature of asking someone out is that it is a risk the very nature of deepening deeping deepening a relationship is that it involves vulnerability yeah and you try so hard to control your relationships to keep them perfect you want no you don't want anyone that you care about to dislike you at all and that's sort of like it's kind of like bro if i'm like never willing to get into the ring and take a couple of punches like i'm never going to be able to play the game you know like i mean it sounded like you played league of legends i'm not too familiar with russ i mean i know it's like a cooperative survival mmo kind of thing right let's look at the common ground as league of legends i played that game a lot so it's like it's like if i'm afraid of losing and i never queue up from league like that's what i hear you saying to me that like i don't know how to queue up for a game of league because you're so terrified about like losing and it's like it's just part of the game yeah that actually gave me a lot of insight what you just said because i actually never thought about it but i do i do wait until everything's perfect if i want to do something big yeah then wait until it's perfect because i hate risk yeah right and this is the thing so like risk tolerance ties to confidence because if we think about what confidence is confidence is the ability to face uncertainty and the more that you stack the deck in your favor before you act june what happens to your confidence if i stack the deck in my favor and then i act am i more confident afterward no probably not the exact opposite it reinforces my insecurity because it's not me that did it it's all of these other things that made sure that it worked out ridiculous planning yes and so like now i'm going to give you just an analogy for medicine okay okay so can i share a story about myself oh yes okay i love that so like i finished medical school and then everyone called me a doctor but i know this sounds kind of weird but when you finish medical school like you're not really a doctor you know does that make sense like you just get your md it's like with the day before medical school you don't have your md degree and then you walk down the stage and someone hands you a piece of paper and then like magically you're a doctor you're not a doctor you're just just like one day you're a fourth year medical student you're not a full-fledged doctor sure technically you're a doctor but does that make sense that makes sense and so like i i still remember the day that i became a doctor i was at a wedding and then someone was like is there a doctor here and i was like oh [ __ ] because normally like when you yeah so like normally like so then you start residency okay which is like where you really learn how to be a doctor so you go to the hospital and then you're taking care of patients but you have like supervisors who are above you so i'm there at the hospital i'm taking care of patients but i have a senior resident i have an attending physician so there's a dude with 20 years of experience there's a dude with three years of experience there's a dude he's one year ahead of me and this is my team i'm the bottom on the totem pole but there are three people looking over my shoulder all the time what we're like butt buddies like the body system oh right so they're okay i know where you're going with this and so then you want me to finish or you want to yeah let me finish no no go ahead go ahead so like here i am at the wedding and it's like oh crap and i'm like waiting for someone else to say you know i'm i'm but there's like it's bizarre my mom is a doctor so my mom [ __ ] my mom volunteers me she's a doctor she's been practicing for 30 years and then she's like oh yeah like my son is a doctor i was like you're like i've been doing this for six months you've been doing this for 30 years and then she like points at me like i still remember she points at me we're in this big hall with like 400 tables there's over 400 people like 50 tables and she points at me and then i see like people walking over and i'm like what and then they're like oh like your mom said you're a doctor and i was like yes that is true and then we walk outside of the hall and there's like this 70 year old lady who's like laying down on a couch and i'm like oh [ __ ] and my mom is there i don't think she realizes what she had done and then and then so they're like you know oh like she's feeling light-headed this is like like like the bride of the i mean the grandmother or the bride and she's like my grandma's like lightheaded and i'm like oh [ __ ] is she having a heart attack is she having a stroke is she you know so then i'm like okay well and then like your training kicks in there's no senior residents no attendings and my mom has abandoned me which is you know if i ever talk to a psychiatrist on stream we can talk about that but and so there i am and it's like okay so i talked to her you know i'm like okay what do i do like okay i check her blood pressure you know ask her a couple of questions like i do a neurological exam i'm like okay blink and then do this and look to the right and look to the left swallow smell my fingers i know it sounds weird but something that you do um you know try to smell this thing and like okay like can you can you wiggle your fingers wiggle your toes okay you know are you having any chest pain and then i look at her and she doesn't seem that sick right like i know this sounds weird but like even you june like you know you see some people sometimes and you're like that person is sick and then other people are like oh like that person isn't that sick she doesn't look sick and i'm like yeah it sounds like maybe you're dehydrated have you like had any water today and she's like yeah i had a little bit and i was like why don't you have some water i'm gonna sit here with you i don't think we need to call 9-1-1 yet but i'm going to sit here with you with for 15 minutes like i get you some food get you some water she's feeling better okay let's like it's fine no one needs to go to the hospital okay and it's like holy [ __ ] i'm a doctor you're a doctor and so like where does that confidence come from there's no attendings it's just me and grandmother of the bride and the problem is that like you're good at rust right june and when you start on a rust server who's got your back who's got my back yeah my teammates okay right but there are other teams and so like yeah like like sure your teammates have your back but like you know when you go into a game of league of legends like even it's a team game it's you right like it's not like it's not like you know riot games is like sitting there like recoding things to make your hero overpowered which is exactly what you do in real life is you try to like you know open up dev tools and structure your life so that you never have to take risks and then the more that you do that like the harder it becomes to open up because you want to avoid that awkwardness at all costs and like i don't know how to say this bro but like if you're never willing to you know make things awkward it's gonna be really hard to ask a girl out but you have your plan june and you know what your plan is your plan is to wait until you're 100 sure that she likes you and she's gonna say yes and then you will ask her out you're going to ask your friends you're going to ask her friends and you're going to make sure that everything i'll never do that okay that would make things too awkward but you got to be sure before you take your shot and as long as that's the case bro you're gonna be like stuck at this level that was a really good uh story because i think it relates because like even if you even if you didn't think you were a doctor at the time because you were like six months in and there was like all these other people that had way more experience than you you were still a doctor and then once you're like put into that position you're able to do it anyways even though you didn't think you were a doctor at first yep so here's the thing june did i think i was good enough no but you did it anyways was i good enough yes did you get an 86 or did you get a 95 i got a 95. and what did you think you deserved a hundred months ago see i'm getting close to something you can deflect with humor if you want to because here's the thing june you are good enough you've been good enough you deserve the 95 then your parents have loved you since the day you were born and those chicks were totally into you you don't need to be any better than what you are right now you're you're golden bro like should you continue to grow as a human being absolutely but you're good enough thank you i think um right now i am trying to be like opening up more like i'm like talking to people more like initiating more friendships because i never used to do that honestly like even last year i didn't really do that but then like this year i'm really trying to do that um i think in terms of like dating i'm not i'm not too worried back then i didn't have a lot of confidence i think i grew like over the last five years i did grow a little bit more confidence i think right now the only issue is i'm just not able to even have the first step where i have a girl that i like because i like because i code basically yeah so if that's the case like that's why you know this is this is why we're gonna have this conversation now and like hopefully people will get vaccinated turns out people may need a third booster but i think you'll get there but i think the main thing june is you've got to stop running away from awkwardness right and that's where like like like overcoming awkwardness is not going to happen as long as you don't know what it is and so the next step is going to be like unpacking what is awkwardness in a given situation right so like if you think about someone who you want to deepen a relationship with what are you saying that would make things awkward and like what is the awkward is it fear is it guilt is it shame you know like i will send you something called the feelings wheel and if you have like a friend or therapist or something like that that you can work with dude that'd be awesome uh like we're i'm gonna send you the feelings we'll like you're gonna just circle the feelings okay oh it looks like someone is fog okay so let me forward this to you oh you actually have the feeling wheel yeah one one of our how do i copy image so i will just okay so yeah can you take a look at that oh my god okay this is so big yes hold on chat let me let me open this wait there's like there's like a hundred words here yes wow this is like beyond my vocabulary well yeah so like we're gonna we're gonna progress june because that's something you're good at right so like this is the feelings wheel so when we talk about awkward you know it's gonna be feeling rejected excluded in that group after you break up with a girlfriend feeling inadequate feeling anxious feeling bitter feeling humiliated feeling resentful for your friends for siding with her instead of fight siding with you feeling overwhelmed out of control pressured to ask her out quickly or be nice or fix your problems you know you know i i really think just like just being a streamer like really made me worse in being descriptive because what ends up happening dr k i don't know if you've already reached this point in streaming where you just like say everything as kw yeah yeah you know it's it's it's interesting right because i i think that like like you know when i was talking about how men describe you know feelings and physical ways i i think actually one of the things that's really cool um is that we do have our own vocabulary right and it's just not mine right now is sag yeah but but so that's the thing right is if you really look at it like the reason that there are so many different icons is because bad man and sag and pepe han pepe hands is different from pepe crying true right pepe with tears in his eyes is different from pepe crying and and like there's like feels bad man and then there's sag and then there's feels sag man so it's almost like you could construct a feeling wheel with like all of the emotes and that would work right like underneath sag there's feels bad man and then there's feels sag man and then there's pepe with tears in his eyes and then there's pepe crying like you could do this so i i think it's it's interesting that you say everything is cac w i don't think everything is keck i don't even know what keck w means but but like you know i i definitely think we are developing our own vocabulary yeah honestly yeah and even like you know the fish like i love the fish you know the fish emote the fish emote you mean um what was it called which one it's the one yeah yeah yeah yeah right so there's there's ooh and there's pog and there's pog champ so like in the pog wedge of the feeling wheel there's poggers pog champ you know i don't know what the other ones are yeah it's becoming a real problem actually like twitch talk like even even sheesh do you know sheesh no is that a person or a thing okay i'll do it once for you okay are you ready yeah shush is that a mating call or what what is it you know it could be very well be like a mating call because actually i have a story from today i went to the gym and i was done working out and i went to the locker room right i was just showering and then a bunch of dudes came in right uh and they were like changing and i overheard the conversation i may not be ready for this no no one guy one guy was like yo i've been like doing intermittent fasting i was like and and the other guy was like oh what for and then the other guy was like yeah i'm cutting right now and the other guy said uh and then i actually had like i was like in the shower room and i had like my first instinct when i heard that was the sheet with that guy it's actually becoming a problem wait so why didn't you though because it would make things awkward yeah but that's like actually go for it june next time i'll i'll shish with him yes okay yes you got to put yourself out there right you you gotta like let that pog champ within you out oh my god right like the the scared it's okay to be scared it's okay to be scared but don't let that stop you next time i will i will sheesh from the shower room yeah she sheesh from the shower that's that's that's my concrete advice to you at the end of the conversation so i don't know what you were planning on getting from this but what we're going to end up with is shishing from the shower room i'm going to choose from the shower room next time thank you very much um any questions june i mean because i i do feel like we're at sort of like a good stopping point but i i don't know if i don't know how you feel about that or no i think this is really good uh honestly i really love talking with like super intelligent people like you because i think it gives me a lot of insight i like at the beginning of our conversation honestly i didn't even know what to say because i wasn't really sure how to describe anything but then i feel like i got a lot of insight um yeah gave me a lot of hope so i i appreciate your positive sentiment and your your gratitude for the conversation and i still feel like i gotta bounce that back a little bit and remind you that it takes two to tango so i know that you appreciate i i just drive this point home which is like what is your contribution to the conversation because what i'm hearing is you call me super intelligent and you being ignorant no no no no no i just no that was not like uh okay right because you said but i i just want to reflect back to you that i enjoy these conversations too june and it's because i recognize that there may be some things that you don't understand but i think you actually did an amazing job because the problem is that like i swim in these waters all the time it's my day job whereas like we're queuing up right and like this is like i grind every single day and like we're queuing up together and and you're you know you're holding your own in lane like that's the way we win right so i think it's really awesome like i think this conversation is a good example of like you know you putting yourself out there feeling awkward i'm sure um and then really like i i'm really like i'm i think you did a fantastic job thank you cool um do you sometimes i teach people how to meditate do you oh i i actually love meditating but i haven't done it in a while okay coincidentally ever since i started rest like can i tell you a story about like the first time i tried meditating yes please so i think i was like 13 and i was just like laying down in my bed and then on my youtube recommendations i got a this guided meditation thing and this guy had like a super deep voice and i was like oh my god so i like put my earphones on and then i did this guided meditation thing and then i was like listening to this guy's like beautiful voice and he puts me into like a stance and then i literally felt like i was in the middle of space it was like super cool but i haven't been able to replicate it since no matter how hard i tried okay so you you felt this a a sensation of vastness yeah i was just like floating in like middle of nothing yeah it felt like that so cool are you sitting up or what right now uh i can i can i can lay down on my chair let me just think about how to teach this to you so this is going to be a little bit more of a of an advanced technique but it's actually relatively simple your back should be straight and if you've done this lying down i think you can try doing it lying down again i think this is gonna take practice i don't know if it's gonna work right now because i think that you need a certain degree of like calmness and i think actually like we're energized right now is what i'm feeling june but i'm happy to share the technique with you that you can try to practice okay so um the technique is very simple and we can kind of try to do it together so you can lay down if you want to but i'm going to go ahead and sit up straight the main thing for meditation is that your back needs to be straight so you can do that laying down standing up sitting up straight is there a reason for that yes um so what it's not there isn't a scientific reason um i'm sure there's a scientific reason i don't know what the scientific reason is i should say that but in the sort of eastern systems of like you know energy and qi and and all that stuff the energy of like spiritual growth is situated along your spine lives at the base of your spine and as that energy rises along the back of your spine you start to have more spiritual experiences and spiritual growth so there's no scientific correlate to this energy like no one's been able to find it or detect it or anything like that but essentially like apparently the spine according to these theories like the people who developed the practice of meditation this is what they said is that you want to facilitate like it's like a pipe that you know water flows through and it starts at the bottom and then it works its way up does that answer your question and offer yeah that's okay very interesting so it's gonna be kind of weird but what i'm gonna ask you to do it's hard to demonstrate i'm gonna ask you to close your eyes and then there's a point that's sort of like maybe right above your the middle of your eyebrows i don't know if you can kind of tell it's like not you know it's it's maybe like a quarter inch or a few centimeters above the middle or you can kind of find it for some people it feels a little bit higher but what i want you to do is close your eyes and then i want you to look at that point so i know it sounds kind of weird but and then you're gonna never done i think that's the first time i've ever done that in my life so i want you to you can lay down or sit up straight and then i want you to just look at that and just keep focusing on that point as if you're trying to like look through it with your eyes like imagine that your eyes are behind your forehead it's hard to describe because these things are so experiential but like imagine your eyes are behind your forehead and you're trying to look through like that point in your forehead is like a telescope and so you're like looking through that point into something else does that make sense yep okay so this may cause some amount of eye strain which then you want to relax once it starts to feel uncomfortable and then you want to resume again once your eyes have calmed down you don't want to push yourself or hold it for a long period of time but gradually over time you want to build up the strength and focusing on that point you may also learn that at some point you can actually relax your eyes and focus on the point anyway which is totally fine does that make sense that makes sense okay so let's try to practice for like three or four minutes okay so you can try to hold it for maybe 10 seconds 15 seconds 30 seconds relax for a little bit hold again relax don't strain your eyes too much okay so let's begin you foreign okay go ahead and relax let your eyes remain closed go ahead and take a deep breath in and exhale slowly you can go ahead and rub your eyes a little bit okay and then go ahead and open them what what was that like for you jun i didn't get to the state i was talking about but it is really relaxing okay yeah so you could try practicing this um did you feel like dizzy at all no but i did i did see the i did feel the eye strain are you talking about yeah sometimes like i'm like trying so hard to like look up and then like naturally gradually goes down so i have to like do it again yeah so so it may take a little bit of practice you know this may not be the right technique for you um i i tend to find that some people will sometimes feel dizzy and then i know it's not like this is gonna probably not gonna make any sense but as the dizziness kind of like expands this is a technique that i consistently hear from people when i teach it that it gives them the feeling of what i call vastness which is that they like that i know it sounds kind of weird like you feel dizzy and then it like kind of like sounds so bizarre but it kind of like grows and grows and then like a lot of people that i teach this technique will sort of share that experience with me that's kind of what i experienced back then yeah so so one thing i would say june is that one of the things that gets in the way of meditation or experiences in meditation is seeking experiences in meditation so when our mind is calm and tranquil and we don't have expectation then it can truly shut off and open ourselves up to whatever experience we can have the challenge is that if you go into a practice seeking something that very expectation will prevent your mind from relaxing so i i would say you know just do meditation without sort of thinking about that or try to let go of that expectation like learn to let go of your goal which i think is also very healthy for you in general [Laughter] but always finds a way to tie it together yeah maybe that's just me looking you meditate do i meditate every day i'm gonna go with no so i i tend to have much more intensive periods of meditation and then i do lots of different kinds of meditation but i also think that like where i am in life right now it is important for me to not meditate every day and just like let that go you know you have like a cheat day in terms of diet or like you'll take a week off from going to the gym so i think meditation is sort of the same way where i tend to meditate a fair amount but i let go of the everyday thing a long time ago where it's like you know that at this point feels a little bit artificial to me so what i will do is like embark on sprints essentially of meditation and then i'll do a particular practice in depth for a particular amount of time and then i'll also let my practice wane do you ever like think about stuff while meditating or do you try to keep your mind empty you can't keep your mind empty your mind has to naturally empty and i'm usually pretty good at not thinking about things when i meditate but that just comes with practice so the way that meditation works june is you don't stop thinking about stuff so your body and mind have a very simple principle of like tolerance to a constant stimuli so if i put on my shirt first thing in the morning or after i shower i'm gonna feel the shirt on my body right and then the sensation of the shirt stops does that make sense yeah and then if i concentrate on feeling the shirt i will ign like my mind will stop feeling all other things does that make sense that doesn't make too much sense we're gonna illustrate it really simply i want you to do this with your hands okay now i want you to concentrate on the sensation of your hands can you feel your hands are you wearing a shirt yes now i want you to concentrate on the feeling of the shirt as you focus on the shirt what happens to the sensation of your hands uh you forget about him absolutely right so in the same way our mind has lots of thoughts and so what we do in meditation is we actually start with a focusing technique like focusing on the breath and when i put my attention on the breath the breath knocks out all of the other thoughts but we're still thinking about the breath does that make sense then what happens is eventually our mind stop acclimatizes to the sensation of the breath and if we're lucky we're left in a no mind state wow that sounds awesome okay i don't know i don't know if i can get to that point my mind races all the time sure sounds like you may not be good enough i'll try it actually i'll try for a week there we go right so it just takes practice june you'll get there all minds are capable of it and sometimes if you like work out or dance that may actually be like your avenue because like you know sometimes when you dance or you sing or you work out you're like one with the practice does that make sense like you lose yourself in the dancing and all all you are is like a dancing elemental like you become an elemental if that makes sense yeah like you're no longer june you're just like someone who is dancing so that can be a form of meditation yeah so you you've done it so you may just be someone it sounds like you're quite kinesthetic by nature kinesthetic meaning being like you have a good like sense of your body so what you may actually want to do is not sitting down meditation something like yoga or tai chi may work way better for you like a very solid like hata yoga have you ever done like hot yoga no i never tried hot yoga so i would say like hot yoga is like a good thing for you to try i mean cove it aside because i don't know that's probably awful with a mask on but you know i'd say in your case just i don't know that you need to sit and do like a quiet sitting meditation practice you may be someone who just really gets to that clear state of mind and that feels so good through physical through a physical focus as opposed to a breath focus or a mantra or something like that [Music] i might try it there's a lot of things that i used to have like used to do that gave me that satisfaction that i was talking about but i stopped doing them for whatever reason sure so and i think if i do that more pick it up again should pick it up again yeah cool you want to just tell us june where we can find you before um we wrap up for the day uh where you can find me uh just on twitch usually nowadays twitch dot tv slash acetune um you can follow me on twitter it's h7une it's like it's like this middle old middle middle aged like nice lady that has they want the one ace dune ah outdone by the middle-aged knife lady all right man well thanks a lot i you know it sounds like it was helpful so i'm i'm really happy to hear that and uh good luck to you and you know thank you very much i'm rooting for you man there's a part of me that wants to like bro you up like a couple weeks and now a couple of weeks from now and like push you to you know ask a girl out but that's not really inappropriate i'm gonna be honest with you even if you ask me next year i'll probably still be single i know you say that but that's that's exactly why i feel like stepping out of my role is whatever the hell i am on twitch and being like one of your bros and be like come on man let's do this that's actually awesome to see on twitch i think i watched a lot of your interviews before and i wasn't really sure how i would react and at first like you could probably tell i was really like kind of uncomfortable i wasn't really sure what to say but then uh i think i think it clicked at one point yeah i certainly felt that way too and it just you know takes some time man just takes time practice gotta roll those dice june i will roll the dice awesome if the roll is not perfect there you go if you want to you know if you want to get snake and i guess snake eyes isn't bad but you know two sixes you just gotta roll the dice like over and over and over again you'll get there that's true like a hundred times yeah good luck man all right thank you very much dr k you're very welcome hr take care buddy bye all right chat oh man i think you know like i said it takes some time people aren't really like you gotta you gotta find a way to the emotions however they are

Channel: HealthyGamerGG

Views: 114,982

Keywords: being awkward, doctor k, dr k confidence, dr k hjune, dr kanojia, dr.k, drk, healthy gamer gg, healthygamergg, hjune, hjune dr k, mental health, psychiatrist, twitch

Id: 86JoC1PTmnE

Length: 113min 4sec (6784 seconds)

Published: Fri Aug 13 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/AutoModerator]

"Please keep the discussion free and civil. Any violation of the subreddit rules in this space will be met with action from the moderators."

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/nolanised]

Dr k is a Psychiatrist from Harvard and in this video he talks alto Hjune a Korean rust streamer about being awkward, gaining confidence and being vulnerable. If this are things you have dealt with before I highly recommend it I found it very helpful.