(Music playing) AMIR: Shalom, everyone,
this is Amir Tsarfati and I am live from Galilee, from our office in Galilee. And we are having our third prophesy roundtable with our beloved guests,
Jan Markell and Pastor Barry Stagner. Allow me to add both of
them to the screen right now. Pastor Barry and Jan right now here we are the three of us,
and how are you guys? JAN MARKELL: Good. PASTOR BARRY: Doing well. AMIR: Wonderful! Well,
I'm glad you're doing well. I'm glad to see so many people joining us
from so many different parts of the world. And this roundtable today is not just going to talk about Bible prophecy,
which is the general thing, but we will discuss something that
is afflicting the church nowadays. And that is, of course,
the apostasy we have in the church. So we are going to
start with a prayer. And maybe, Jan, if you have your volume up,
you may want to turn it down on your laptop because I hear an echo. Either you or Barry,
we hear an echo. JAN MARKELL: I'm on a PC,
so I don't think it's me. AMIR: Okay, so Barry,
you want to see if your... PASTOR BARRY:
Save the volume down? AMIR: Turn the volume down, yes. Good. PASTOR BARRY: Okay, how's that? AMIR: Okay, I still hear an echo here,
but I'm not sure why. Pastor Barry,
would you start with prayer and then we will continue? PASTOR BARRY: Absolutely.
Lord, we thank you for Your Word. We thank you that it not only does not return void,
but it remains steadfast in the heavens and is unchanging. And therefore, Lord,
in every generation it is truth that can be trusted in and clung to. And Lord, we thank you that it is yet today living
and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword. So we pray today that You would
divide falsehood from truths by Your Word. We ask for Your spirit to move,
touch the lips of the speaker and the ears that hear it. we ask in Jesus' name, Amen. AMIR: Amen. Well, again,
shalom, everyone. Thank you, Pastor Barry, thank you, Jan, for joining us this
evening here from Galilee and midday for you guys in the U.S. We will discuss a very troubling thing that
the Bible told us we will see as a sign of end. In fact, in 2 Thessalonian Chapter 2, one of the things that Paul wrote to the Thessalonians
that will characterize the Tribulation is going to be apostasy and the rise of the Antichrist. Now of course,
the Antichrist cannot rise before we're out of here. That's what verse 7 of Chapter
2 of 2 Thessalonians says. But we see a ramping apostasy, departure from truth, departure from the Word in
so many different places, not just in the United States but all around the world. And I want to start with you,
Jan. It seems like there are some mega-churches,
prominent churches that are very influential all around the globe. And either something is missing in the teaching or
something in the teaching itself is completely wrong. Why don't we go that direction with you
because you know exactly what I'm talking about. JAN MARKELL: I'm not sure
exactly what you're talking about. AMIR: Talking about mega-churches that
have that have influence all around the world, some of them are in the U.S., some of them are
Australia and other places, but they have branches around the world. So let's start with that because it seems to
me that a lot of the teaching in those places is either completely ignoring Bible prophecy as
a completely different eschatology altogether. JAN MARKELL: True; I have a theory, Amir,
and I've actually shared it with you. And that is I think when a lot of these churches,
mega, and for that matter some not so large. But probably -- we've talked about this before -- probably some 25 years ago when they
decided to drop a couple of topics, eschatology and they kind of stopped supporting Israel, that opened the door to the some of
the apostasy that we see going on. And remember apostasy in
the church has been forever. Even Paul back in his day said, "That when he left,
savage wolves would come in and not spare the flock." So that's the early church. So this goes 2000 years. But then the Bible keeps talking about 2 Timothy, 2 Peter, 1 Timothy in the
last days how this would be ramped up, as these you've already indicated. But I think some of our mega-churches some 25 years ago chose to go -- we've used the term before,
the seeker-sensitive route -- 25 years ago and that opened the door for all of this to come in. And I'll be blunt: A lot of people are expecting a
revival in the end times which will happen in Tribulation. I'm not looking for revival. I believe the Bible says the last days will be characterized, as you've indicated,
by apostasy, by false teaching in the church, not all churches, but many. AMIR: Yes. You know I had a Q&A this morning with people from Germany,
Austria, and Switzerland. And there was a young man who basically told me that he used to be part of,
or at least be in touch with Hillsong London. JAN MARKELL: Yes. AMIR: And he said that they don't teach and believe in the
rapture or in the fact that Jesus has to take us from this world. The way they interpret Daniel Chapter 2,
the stone that is coming to crush the feet of that image, they claim that the Greek or the English are indicating of a process,
namely the church has a part in the in the smashing worlds dominions and powers. And namely also,
we are going to take dominion here and prepare this place for Jesus to come. Pastor Barry,
this is what we call Dominionism, isn't it? PASTOR BARRY: Yes, it is and it's interesting what Jan
mentioned about the introduction of the seeker movement. Basically that movement started with interviewing people
in the neighborhood asking why they didn't come to church. And one of the things that was mentioned by many people was some of
the imagery and the symbolic representations that the church has like a pulpit. People saw that as a piece of authority and,
you know, the cross on the wall. So the church basically removed all those things
which opened the door for all sorts of things to creep in. And basically in a sense you might say that the world started dictating to the
church what church was going to the world or those who were coming into the room. And the interesting thing, Amir,
about what you were just mentioning in Dominion theology, Kingdom Now theology is Paul said in 1 Timothy 4 that, "The Spirit expressly says,
"But in the latter times, there will be a departure from the faith." And that's the only use of the Greek word
translated as expressly in all of the New Testament. So he is highlighting for us that's something extreme, that is unprecedented, that
has never happened in the history of the church is going to happen in the last days. And as Jan said, we've always had apostasy, but never to the degree and
with the components, the departure from sound doctrine that we see now. And one of those would be Dominionism, that the church is going to have
authority over seven different mountains or places of power in the last days. The church will have dominion over the media,
over the government, over obviously spirituals things, over all these issues that basically influenced culture and society today,
and that the church will have Dominion over those things. And yet we're told that we are not of this world,
that we are going to be taken out of this world, and therefore people are being set up for
something that's obviously unbiblical and not true. And yet it's taking a place as a dominant teaching in these last days,
as you mentioned initially with Jan. You know here we've got this movement this New Apostolic Reformation that is sweeping
the world with churches like Hillsong, with places like Bethel up in Redding, California. And you've got this movement that is sweeping people in and people are following after this teaching
expecting something to happen that the Bible says exactly the opposite is going to take place. And that is things are going to get worse and worse, sound doctrine will no longer
be endured, the church is not going to have Dominion over the rest of the world. As a matter of fact, the church is
going to be a remnant as it was in the days of Noah. So again, basically deceiving and deceivers is going to
be on the rise in the last days, and we're seeing that now. Let me turn my light back on. AMIR: Yeah,
you might want to do that. (Laughter) AMIR: it's interesting, Jan, you know Jesus said in John Chapter 14, He said, "In
my Father's house are many mansions and if it were not so, I would have told you." And then look what he said. JAN MARKELL: Yeah. AMIR: He said, "I go to prepare a place for you." And then he said, "And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again and receive you unto Myself that where I am, you may be also." In other words,
we're not here to prepare a place for Him. He went up to
prepare a place for us. And then His return for us, which is different than His return to the world, will
be in order to take us, to receive us unto Himself so where He is, we will be also. And that means it's important, Jan,
because you know obviously things are only gonna get worse and worse and worse. And you and I
talked about it today. Nowadays coronavirus' reality, the new norm, is not such a good reality for some
preachers of "do good and everything is good" and even such as prosperity ones. Can you elaborate on that? JAN MARKELL: Well, I think one of the worst things to
ever hit the church in the last -- I don't know -- it came along -- I think it probably came along in the 1940s with the "Latter Rain"
and then it picked up clearly in the '60s, '70s, and on into today. And that's this terrible prosperity teaching that means you can -- it goes
by other names -- "health and wealth," "name it and claim it," things like that. And if anything, we should be discouraging people from following "health and
wealth and prosperity" and "we're always wealthy and we're always healthy." The last six months of life on this planet and not just in America,
folks, 188 countries I believe has the coronavirus. And that means a lot of Christians are sick and a lot of
Christians aren't necessarily experiencing health and wealth. So that came along
in a big-time manner. Here again, I think it would go back to the "Manifest Sons
of God" probably in the 40s and coming on up until today. But there are lots of things like that,
Amir. There's so much. I mean my list is
almost overflowing. But you know what had to happen before
even these terrible teachings came along? That would be the
death of discernment. And that's what I see happened. Again, I mean in my lifetime, and I've been paying attention to
these things for 35 years, and I don't know, it may predate that. But the death of discernment came along and now good, smart people, leaders
that we could even name their names, they can't spot a false teacher. And they think so-and-so is a wonderful leader, pastor,
teacher, and they're doing nothing but teaching false things. So the death of
discernment had to happen. But again,
the Bible predicted that would happen too. AMIR: Yeah, and it's very,
very sad to see that. I also am often very frustrated honestly because we get hundreds of emails and notes and
text messages and direct messages, and people ask questions, which is fine, I encourage that. But often times the questions that they ask are
so detached from the scriptures that you are asking. For example,
I'll give an example, okay? They're telling me,
"I believe the two witnesses are Trump and Netanyahu." And I'm like, "When you read the Bible, you know that the witnesses
are sent by God and they're going to be killed by the Antichrist himself. There will be first -- they have
supernatural powers that God will give them. And they will speak the truth to a situation when Jerusalem
has a temple and then the world will rejoice when they are dead." I mean let's face; it you cannot just think that there is a two
witnesses thing and then attach it to stuff that you just see now. I mean,
you have to always go back to the Bible. Now they claimed that they heard that in the church,
obviously. Now sometimes people don't
teach Bible prophecy at all. Sometimes people teach
Bible prophecy on steroids. And I'm not sure what other drugs they add to it because they
start hallucinating and seeing things that are not even in the Bible. But we touched the Dominionism
and how it's biblically completely wrong. Pastor Barry, what about Replacement Theology as an epitome right
now around the world, and then I'm gonna say a few words about that. PASTOR BARRY: Yes,
sadly that too is becoming a dominant ideology and has been for many years. The vast majority of the church, many under a reformed theology
believe that the church has actually replaced Israel in God's prophetic plan. And you know there's multiple problems with that, Amir, and not the least of which is the
things pertaining to Israel that were prophesied in the Old Testament are still happening. And we see Ezekiel 37
having been and being fulfilled. We see the coalition of the Ezekiel
38-39 being fulfilled even now. We see you know multiple components of various scriptures and preparation for
the Tribulation period which is the 70th week of Daniel still being fulfilled. And you know basically I think it's
inconsistent with the Bible's message. And that's why it's so important for us to understand
the importance of studying the whole counsel of God. You know when we've got guys saying that the church needs to unhitch from the Old
Testament, basically we're saying we need to unhitch from unfulfilled prophecy, we need to unhitch ourselves from the fulfillment
of God's redemptive plan for the Nation of Israel. You know what happened to "They're going to look upon the one
whom they pierced mourn for Him as one mourns for an only son?" When did that happen? Basically this is negating portions of Scripture and nullifying what God has said by inspiration
of the Holy Spirit through holy men of God who were moved by the Spirit who wrote these things. So you know the church is the church and for all their wonderful promises,
I'd like to tell people, "Listen, when you're reading the Old Testament, when you run across something that pertains to God's nature and character, then
it's something that could be appropriated by Christians because God doesn't change. But when you're reading something between the relationship
directly between God and his chosen ethnic people, the Jews, then that's exclusive to them and so many things that God has promised them,
including as I mentioned Ezekiel 36, 37, 38, 39 are still happening today. And we're headed
toward Zachariah 12-14. And it does great damage to the church, and Amir, you know this is something
I think that is so crucially important because I hear pastors say all the time you know we need to remember the Abrahamic Covenant and Genesis 12:3
that God said, "I will bless those who bless you and curse him who curses you." Now the interesting thing about that is in the second half of
that statement when God said, "I will curse him who curses you." The word "curse" and the word "curses"
are two completely different Hebrew words. The word "curses" means to despise,
and God said, "I will curse those who despise you." So we need to be careful about falling into things like
Replacement Theology because really it pokes holes in the Bible. It certainly does damage to the
prophetic narrative and our eschatology. And it also puts us in a place where we, I think, as a nation because of our current president and
things that we have done in past when Israel was reborn has brought great blessing to this nation. So I think the church needs to be careful about cursing or
despising Israel even through the lens of Replacement Theology and believing that their interpretation is that Israel was cast aside
and the church has now replaced Israel as the chosen people of God. AMIR: Yeah. PASTOR BARRY: You
know it's a dangerous thing. And I think I would think twice about following after that particular
interpretation of Scripture because the church is gonna be taken out of here. God is going to deal
with Israel as he promised. AMIR: Yeah; we may have lost the connection with you, Barry, but I want to elaborate on that
by saying that it's super, super important that we are to remember that at the very end, every nation will have to explain what they did to Israel as a nation
and to the land of Israel as Joel Chapter 3:1-2 says. And I also believe, guys, that Matthew 25, speaking of the sheep and the goats and the brethren of Christ
also pertains to that particular thing of the judgment of the nations regarding what they did for Israel. I want to tell you that a week and a half ago, I was forwarded a part of the video
that was made by a very young conservative person who is very, very popular online. He has hundreds of
thousands of followers. And up until a few weeks ago, he used to be a great
supporter of President Trump and the policies of President Trump. He believes now that he had some revelation and he attaching
that to he got back to the Bible, back to Jesus, and all of that. And then, ladies and gentleman,
he released this garbage that -- I'm a descendant of the Holocaust survivors. And whenever I see spoiled brats talking about the
Holocaust as if it's just nothing, it just drives me crazy. And I would like to show you
what this Dylan Wheeler said. Just so you all understand; in the name of Jesus,
in the name of the Bible he got to this revelation. Watch these guys. (Video playing) DYLAN: And then a little bit to expand a
little bit on the Zionism, which is which is like saying Voldemort. You know, you critique anything about Jews, which by the way,
these are fake Jews, this is a Khazarian Mafia. They hide behind
the Jewish label. People are so quick to say you can never say anything bad about Jews,
they've been through so much and obviously that's going back to the Holocaust. But Hitler was a Rothschild. So this was done on purpose for them for
them to hide behind a shield for protection. So you're not allowed
to question anything. But after seeing what
I just showed you... AMIR: Guys, what you just heard is this man saying Hitler was actually a Jew, a
Rothschild, and it was done on purpose so the Jews will hide behind this shield. Six million Jews, of which a million and a half children,
were brutally murdered in the most documented genocide in history. And you are looking at a spoiled brat that lives in America
that is telling his hundreds of thousands of followers that in the name of his him getting closer to Jesus and to Bible,
he discovered that the Jews of today are the Khazarian Mafia? I mean,
talk to my grandparents who survived the holocaust. Mafia, Khazarian Mafia,
are you out of your mind? Have you ever checked
me and my background? And then to even imply that the Holocaust is a
hoax; is just a way to be hiding behind...this is so crazy! And the reason why I play that today is not because -- I don't care
much about... but he's using the name of Jesus in all of his recent ones. And he's using the Bible and he's supposedly in the name of Bible and Jesus,
he is getting to this garbage. And we are seeing more and
more of that stuff all around the world. And when I tweet something about
that -- you know what people write me? Oh yeah,
but the Jewish people killed Jesus. Excuse me,
when was the last time you read your Bible? I mean, physically the Jewish people never killed Jesus,
it was the Romans. And yes,
the Jews wanted Jesus dead. And yes,
they fulfilled Bible prophecy. And yes, all of us have gone astray,
each and every one of us have gone his own way. And yes, Jesus said, "That nobody takes his life from Him,
He lays down His life and He can take it back." Look, that's the thing. I'm sure that, Jan,
you agree with me. The departure -- apostasy is departure
from the truth and what is the truth? The Word. JAN MARKELL: Exactly. JAN MARKELL: See, what's happened, again, in the last 30 to 50 years going
along with what you're saying here is that experience has trumped the Bible. The Bible is being taught less and
less and less and less in our churches. Experience is everything,
not with every church. But with a lot of churches,
experiences and the signs and the wonders and the miracles. And look,
I've had a miracle in my life; I'm not anti-miracle. But when this takes prominence,
then we get what you just showed us. And we would get people coming out saying
things that are so -- it's lunacy is what it is. But you know that young man has no
discernment and somehow, he's been led astray. I think the question is: Did
his church lead him astray? We don't know but
it's very possible. AMIR: He's leading astray
hundreds of thousands of followers. And he is showing them;
he's educating them. JAN MARKELL: Right, but this is a part of the overall thing that's going haywire since
-- again, probably going back to the 1940s or so and it's accelerating and accelerating. And if I could just introduce one more thing,
Amir? AMIR: Please do that. JAN MARKELL: I mean,
I know I could introduce 25 different things. But the thing is because America now and in parts of the Western world,
even in Australia, even in parts of Europe, everything is about race, everything right now is so much about race,
black and white and all the other colors. AMIR: Yeah. JAN MARKELL: Now what's
ravaging the church is social justice. And everything in the pulpit is social justice,
social justice. So this is kind of almost the
New Apostolic Reformation. It's kind of pushing that out even so that the social justice is coming in and every
denomination is falling for this social justice, even parts of the Southern Baptist Convention. And thankfully, there are lots in Southern Baptist Convention pushing
against this and telling their leaders, "Don't go there, please don't go there." They are anyway. But this is kind of the newest
thing that is ravaging our churches. And I know Pastor Barry can
attest to that being a pastor. AMIR: Pastor Barry,
what do you say about this social justice Christianity that we see now? I've seen a lot of prominent pastors that started marching in the streets,
you know showing their support of Black Lives Matter organization. I'm not talking about speaking
about the black people. JAN: No, there is no way Christians should be supporting Black Lives Matter,
I didn't say black lives but BLM. There's no way you can support that,
can't do it. It's Communist and its'
anti-family and a lot of other things. AMIR: And very violent also. Pastor Barry, do you see that also as a prominent
danger across the globe but mostly in America right now? PASTOR BARRY: Well,
basically it's a forsaking of the Great Commission. You know we're not here to
solve all the world's social issues. You know one of the things I think that's so curious and often pops up is that Bible detractors say
that the Bible endorses slavery because it talks about the master/slave relationship, the doulos. You know there were some 40
million slaves in the Roman Empire. But the Bible is dealing with social realities and
telling people how to conduct themselves as Christians. It doesn't talk about how to change things,
how to change the world. It talks about how to change the human
soul from perishing to having eternal life. And that's the primary mission of the church and I
think that's really the problem with this whole movement and especially those who are marching with violent groups and
supporting groups like Antifa and rallying around their supposed cause. You know basically they're doing what was said would be in the last days, they're departing from what the
church's commission is which is to preach the gospel to every creature and make disciples of all nations. So you know, "In this life you will have tribulation,"
that's what Jesus said. Life's gonna be tough and not every social
justice is going to have a cure or remedy. But the fact is it's the next life that people are trying to create in this life as
though we're going to end all of the social ills and things are going to be perfect. And people are going to be balanced
and there won't be any injustices. You know we're here to
rescue souls from death. JAN MARKELL: Amen. PASTOR BARRY: That's a pair of my life verses is Proverbs 24:11-12, "Hold back
those stumbling to the slaughter and rescue those who are drawn toward death." "And if we say we didn't know this, He who keeps your heart
will perceive it and will render to each of us according to our deeds." You know we're here to tell people about Jesus, to have them commit their souls
to Him and doing good and will encounter and endure injustices in this life. And yes, we are to remember the poor, of course,
God has a burden for widows and orphans and we are to deal with those things. And some of the things that
Paul told Titus meet urgent needs. I mean, of course, the church is to have that as a part
of their Christian behavior, but that's always been true. But we're not going to solve all the world
social problems nor are we called to do that. We're called impact the world for
Jesus Christ and lead people to Him. And that's really the
end of our commission. That's why it's so short. Go to the world,
preach the gospel. AMIR: Yeah, in fact, Jesus could have abolished slavery when He was there,
you know, Jesus being God in the flesh, coming to the world. But again, it was not that slavery was the problem as much as the slavery to
sin of every human soul and that is the slavery He came to set us free from. Jan,
do you want to add something? JAN MARKELL: Well, I'm getting emails every day from people, and they're
actually comments here on the stream of people having to leave their church because the pastor got up and said, "We are going to -- and they
even use the word "honor" -- the Black Lives Matter," the organization, which is totally Marxist,
totally godless, totally anti-Christian. And yet evangelical pastors are getting behind their pulpits and saying,
"We're gonna honor this organization." And some churches -- I'm getting the email -- the pastor
will have every African American stand up in their church. That's fine,
but I don't think there's any difference between Blacks and Whites. AMIR: It's not fine. We don't have to; nobody has to apologize
for something he never did to anyone. JAN MARKELL: Exactly. AMIR: You know I'm not asking the Egyptians
to apologize for what they did to the Jews in Egypt. The thing is: Jan and Barry, I've seen several,
several preachers attacked by Black Lives Matter activists. And I've seen Bibles being burned
by Black Lives Matter activists. And so the Word of
God is not allowed there. The Word of God
is not honored there. But I'm saying evangelical Christianity is falling for this
and it's part of the end-time apostasy, that's all I'm saying. AMIR: They're falling for this
because it's popular right now. JAN MARKELL: Yes, it is. AMIR: They want to stay relevant
and this is our biggest problem. The biggest problem is
that we seek to be popular. We seek to be loved when Jesus himself said if the world loves you,
you're in trouble. I mean,
you should not be loved by the world; you're not of the world. And yet,
what we see is big-named pastors are seeking the world's approval -- JAN MARKELL: Right. AMIR: -- not God's Word
approval for what they do. And it's terrible. Now Jan, we talked earlier today, and I we've seen sparks online of what could be
considered revival in America in Huntington Beach and in Portland, Oregon and Seattle. But it's not exactly
the way things look. Can you say a couple
words about that? JAN MARKELL: Well,
I'm not there so it's hard. AMIR: Me either. JAN MARKELL: And I have talked to a couple of people who
have been there and perhaps the intentions are good enough. First of all, America's in turmoil and the West Coast
is going through it just like other parts of the country. But the West Coast seems to be worse than
any other section, turmoil, almost revolution. And so my understanding is that heavily the Bethel Redding crowd came
down first to Southern California, the beach area, and tried to spark a revival. And again I'm not there and if souls are getting saved,
I praise the Lord. But I'm very concerned that other things are going on including recruiting people for what
I'm going to call the cult of the New Apostolic Reformation, Bill Johnson's, Bethel Church. Because that's also going on in,
as I believe you said, Portland. So they're going in, moving in,
and taking advantage of turmoil. Now if they're leading souls to salvation,
I praise the Lord. But if there's any kind of recruiting for their cult,
which NAR and Bethel is a Christian cult, then it's a disaster. I'm sorry; I'm gonna be blunt. I'm going to call it a disaster. AMIR: Well,
we all want a revival. In fact, none of us is against. In fact, we pray for it. But we cannot call
that which is not -- JAN MARKELL: No. AMIR: -- a revival. Barry, do you hear -- I mean,
you're in that neighborhood. What do you know about that? PASTOR BARRY: Well, some of the things I've seen is that the
follow-up links that are given to the converts are taking them to Bethel Church. And that's who is doing the
discipleship of these new believers. And like Jan,
that's the thing that concerns me. And she mentioned
experientialism earlier. And really this is a lot of what
we're seeing in these last days. You know we've had a major paradigm shift in the thinking of
just generally the population here, especially in the United States and even more especially here in Southern California in
that it used to be that if something was true, it was believed. Now today, if something is believed,
that makes it true. And therefore, when you have an experience and therefore
you believe that something spiritual actually happened to you and then you send these people off to be a counseled by
those who are suspect in their theology, to say the very least, and who do not put up a sound doctrine to believe all kinds of aberrant things, like
Dominion Theology that we were talking about earlier, you know this is a matter of concern. And again,
it's being validated by what people are seeing and experiencing. And there's an old saying that says, "It doesn't matter how high you jump,
it matters how straight you walk when you hit the ground." And so we can have a
high-point experience. And you know when people are worshiping and God is being praised,
that's a wonderful thing. We certainly don't
want to discount that. And as Jan said, if the gospel is being presented,
legitimate salvations are occurring, we want to praise God for that as well. But you know, Amir, for me,
one of the things in looking at church history and the history of revival, we need to make a distinction
between revival and a great awakening. Reviving implies bringing back to life something that was once
alive and is now dead or dying which the church needs revival. America needs a great awakening. The world needs
a great awakening. People who are dead being made alive in Christ;
really that can't happen without the preaching of the Word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God,
not emotional experiential worship settings or any of those other things. You know everybody who got saved got saved by
hearing the gospel and that's what needs to be presented. You know I'm all for wonderful times of
worship and outdoor services and all of that. AMIR: I agree. PASTOR BARRY: But you know,
we balance too. AMIR: Yes. Guys,
are you ready to take some questions? PASTOR BARRY: Sure.
JAN MARKELL: Sure. AMIR: So what we're going to do; we are going to add
Pastor Mike Golay to help us with our questions and answers. And Pastor Mike,
how are you my friend? PASTOR MIKE: Hello Amir, hello,
Jan and Pastor Barry, good to see you all. PASTOR BARRY: Good to see you,
Mike, JAN MARKELL: Hello, Mike. AMIR: Mike,
have we gotten any questions yet that we can start answering? PASTOR MIKE: Well,
we have a boatload of questions, Amir. In fact, for those of you who are in the forum,
now is the time to ask questions in relation to apostasy. I'm gonna start straight up. The first question I'm
gonna throw at Jan. And the question is explain why NAR is
not biblical, especially the Bethel Church. Can you be specific about that? That's Sumitra Fernando asking that question,
by the way. JAN MARKELL: Again, in this stream called New Apostolic Reformation
a lot of things are going on that are not solid, that are not biblical. Signs and wonders are
replacing sound biblical teaching. There's Kundalini going on,
and that's something we haven't even discussed is Kundalini. Kundalini Yoga is in many, many,
many churches today, all denominations kundalini yoga. But going back to NAR; the Kundalini
spirit is taking place in a lot of their activities. And that's the jerking and the twitching and
the falling down and the rolling on the floor. That type is a demonic spirit out of India that's
infiltrated parts of the New Apostolic Reformation. Now let me clarify. I am not saying and I have never said that
all of Pentecostalism is doing these things. As a matter of fact, I hear from Assembly of God people
all the time saying thank you for talking about NAR. First, Assembly of God church; if you fill in the blank city,
we do not believe what they believe. Again,
which would be extreme signs and wonders over sound biblical teaching. Again,
they would believe in Dominion Theology. We've already talked about that. Again, their eschatology is just way off; it's heavily post-Millennialism,
we go through the Tribulation, or its Dominionism, it's a blend of these things. But I think the biggest thing is that it's so experiential,
and experience has trumped sound doctrine. And when experience trumps sound doctrine,
gentlemen, we have a big problem. PASTOR MIKE: Yeah,
we certainly do, don't we? Because then the standard of truth
is "What I feel rather than what is." Very well put, Jan. Amir,
May Belaito wants Replacement Theology explained plainly. What is Replacement
Theology in layman's terms? AMIR: Replacement Theology is when believers believe
that the church has replaced Israel in God's promises for Israel. And then of course, all the promises that were given to Israel are now, because of
Israel's disobedience, now they're going to be obtained by the church itself. Now what is the problem here? The problem is that some of the privileges of
Israel have already been shared with the church. The religious and the spiritual
privileges have been shared by the church. There's no doubt the church
is also grafted into the vine. The church is also
grafted into the olive tree. You know this is not replacing,
but this is being grafted in. However, some things related to Israel's national privileges can never be obtained by the church
such as the land, the capital, the language, the rebirth of Israel as a political entity, as a state. I mean,
this is why they have a problem with state of Israel right now. They believe it's
not an act of God. They believe -- and some spoiled brats like that guy that is telling you that the
Jews are not the real Jews, that this is the Khazarian Mafia, this is exactly it. You see that these people are
being fed by all these conspiracy thing. Add to that verses that they take out of context as the one of: These are
not real Jews, they are the synagogue of Satan from Revelation Chapter 2, and then you add that and you cook something that is completely out of context in order to
bring about some heroic reality where you are now that chosen and therefore, others are not. Now it's interesting; much of it is because of, I believe,
the problem of the human mind to understand that God is sovereign. They think that when we become believers and
our sins are forgiven, now we decide what's next. We take the reins from God,
and it's interesting because Paul when he wrote the Book of Romans, which is known as the
Magna Carta of our faith, he mentioned Israel so many times there. Obviously, it is a topic that was essential for the church,
the non-Jewish church to know. But then when he got to Chapter 11 of the Book of Romans,
he understood that everything he said so far about the church can cause them or may cause them to think for
a second that God cast away already His people. And then he said -- and I urge you all to read Romans 11 to
understand how much of an error it is to think that God forgot all about Israel. But I would also want to conclude, Mike,
with those words that Paul said in Romans 11 at the very end. He said, "Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake,
but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers." And then look what he says,
"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable," he said. And then he explains and says, "For as you were once disobedient to God,
yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient,
that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience,
that He might have mercy on all." I mean isn't it amazing? Paul as a Jew wrote that to the Romans while
being in Rome and summoning the Jewish leaders. And he understood, look,
he said I cannot blame my nation for anything. I was blind just like them. He understood the blindness. And so this is Replacement Theology: to think all the future promises
for Israel are null and void and in fact, the new Israel is the church. JAN MARKELL: Mike,
could I add something, Mike? PASTOR MIKE: Yeah, please. JAN MARKELL: Most denominations
today are Replacement Theology. Roman Catholicism, almost all of Lutheranism, probably 99% of it,
all of the Methodist Church, all of the Presbyterian Church, all of the United Church of Christ,
all are reform theology and we've got some Reform Baptist churches. They would be teaching this. There's a little sliver now of churches, obviously Calvary Chapel and a few
Baptist churches and perhaps Evangelical-free that hold to what we believe. Other than that,
they're Replacement Theology. Do you realize that's
most of Christianity -- PASTOR MIKE: Yeah. JAN MARKELL: -- is Replacement Theology,
most of it is. AMIR: That's the plague. When you go that path, Mike, when you go that path,
your entire eschatology is wrong. All the verses referring to Israel going through the Tribulation,
since you're now Israel, you have to go through the Tribulation also. And so now you see that not only that they're being completely departing from the
Word of God and the prophets of the Old Testament, as well as the writings of Paul, but now you steal the hope from the church of the
rapture before the Tribulation and you give them despair of you better store food and you better get underground
shelters because you're going to go through the Tribulation. PASTOR MIKE: Because this is such a deception, and I want to hear from you,
Pastor Barry, one of the silver bullets that comes to my mind is that Replacement Theology simply teaches
God gives up on people that don't behave. If God gives up on people that don't behave,
what does that mean for the church if we don't behave? And even says that
in a manner of such. Replacement Theology is God couldn't handle anymore
with His original people so He rotates to a new people. Barry,
what are the consequences? Tell us the consequences
of this false teaching. Amir already said that it
impacts prophecy eschatology. What are some of the
consequences you see? PASTOR BARRY: Well, it impacts soteriology also,
which is the doctrine of salvation. PASTOR MIKE: Yeah. PASTOR BARRY: You know God set His love on His people,
even as He has told His disciples. You know I chose you. And the Lord has set His love upon us, God sent His son into the
world because He loved us to die for the sins of the whole world. And listen, if God can set His love on you and then kick you to the curb -- if it
can happen to the Jews, His chosen people -- then it can happen to anybody else. And again,
so you've got a false belief system. It doesn't have the assurance of salvation,
it doesn't have the eternal hope of heaven. And basically it denies
what Scripture says. You know when Paul talked about in Ephesians 1:13 that we, in the person
of the Holy Spirit, have a down payment, a guarantee of our future inheritance. And then if you have a guarantee but then you can lose it,
what kind of guarantee is that? PASTOR MIKE: Oh, yeah. PASTOR BARRY: I think the most important thing about examining the Old Testament is looking at God's interaction
with the nation of Israel including the diaspora, the scattering of the Jews amongst the nations of the world. And the Lord said, "Every day they were outside of the land of Israel,
they profaned My name." So He brought them back into
the land as He promised them. And we miss out on so much of the faithfulness of God and even what we're told in
the Proverbs, "That though the righteous may fall seven times, he rises again." God is a merciful God. He has not cast off His nation. And just like Hebrews says,
"He disciplines those whom He loves," even severely at times. Because it proves that we are His children,
that He loves us. So I think it's very dangerous to our perspective,
our soteriology, as a theological term, or our belief about salvation. PASTOR MIKE: One observation
before I throw this next question out. Jan and Amir have Jewish roots. I don't know if you've been to Israel,
the Yad Vashem Museum, Jan, we lead the tours there. JAN MARKELL: Yes. PASTOR MIKE: The first exhibit ironically is the way the
Germans got the whole of Europe to believe in their sick, satanic cause was to say that God was finished with
the Jews and the covenant had migrated. It was Replacement Theology,
the very first exhibit. JAN MARKELL: Exactly. PASTOR MIKE: I find that bone chilling. JAN MARKELL: Germany was
heavily Lutheran and Catholic. And again those denominations are
completely embroiled in Replacement Theology. So it was very easy for Hitler to do what he did,
very easy. Not every church went along with it because you had a confessional church, Bonhoeffer,
etcetera, who didn't go along with this, but most churches went along with it. PASTOR MIKE: Paula
is asking this question. I want to throw
this at you Amir. What questions should I ask or look for when looking for a
church to attend to make sure they're not part of an Apostasy? Is there questions that a believer should be asking
before they start attending their next home church? AMIR: Well, I mean it's hard for me to answer that question
because first of all, you have to find out if they teach the Bible. I mean, I honestly think some churches, some big churches in America you don't have to show
up with a Bible because the chances that they will teach the Bible in that church are slim. They might use one verse and then do
motivational speaking the rest of the hour. First thing is: Do I show up with a Bible and
are we going to open it and study the scriptures? Second is: How do we
study the whole scripture? Are we leaving out something
because we don't want to deal with it? They have to look at their view of eschatology,
their view of Israel, the view of Christ himself. Some places deny
the deity of Christ. Some places completely
change things around that area. And they really need to see pastors led by the Holy Spirit because churches can open the
Word and still the Spirit can be gone if they don't let the Spirit work in that church. I think that before you go to ask a
church if they're the right place for you, you need to ask yourself if you have the Holy Spirit and have
discernment to be able to see all of these things when you enter it. PASTOR MIKE: Discernment. AMIR: Yeah, and discernment is really,
really, really big. That's what we try
to establish today. You know when you kill the sermon,
the path towards error and towards apostasy is very, very, very short. PASTOR MIKE: Pastor Barry, truth you could say is so,
so critical in these days of apostasy. It's so much more critical. Now this question that Paula asked I really wanna really
pursue it a little bit because the community is watching this right now. And they're wondering how
do I select a good church? As a pastor,
I know you have a doctrinal statement. What do you say as a pastor to people that are looking for a very solid
Bible teaching church from a pastoral perspective; I would love to hear that. PASTOR BARRY: Well, I think because of the age we live in,
every church has a website or most do these days. And the first thing I would do is look in their statement
of faith and look for the things that Amir was talking about. Do they teach the Bible? Do they believe in the Holy Spirit and his active
presence in the world and in the church today? And what is their
position on eschatology? These things are
important things. But I think predominantly the line upon line,
precept upon precept teaching of the Bible is absolutely crucial. And because you're going to cover everything that's needed
as God has given us all things pertaining to life and godliness. And therefore, when you teach the whole counsel of God,
and we've all said it: 27% of the Bible is prophecy. When you teach the whole counsel of God,
you're going to be dealing with the issues of prophecy. But when you're dealing with felt needs and social justice
issues and all those things, you're going to be talking about emotions. You're going to be talking from the resource of
your own feelings and the cultural trends of the day. But when you deal with the Word of God,
you're going to deal with things that will indeed have an impact on culture, but they'll have it by changing a person's status from
perishing to being filled with the Spirit and living forever. So I don't think that you can overlook the fact that how a church approaches the Word
of God is anything less than the primary thing you're going to be looking for. You know I like to
describe churches as toast. Some people like a dry, some people like it with butter,
some people like it with butter and jelly. So it's not whether the pastor stands up, sits on a stool, is soft spoken,
is loud and pounds the pulpit and wipes his head with a hankie. You know that's not the issue. The issue is what
is he teaching? Is he teaching the
whole counsel of God? Is he teaching the Word of God? Because the entirety of God's Word is truth,
and therefore, it must all be taught. So for me that's
the bottom line. Do they teach the Bible? Jan,
I could see that you have something to add. JAN MARKELL: I just want to have part B added to your question,
Mike. And that would be because
I know folks are thinking this. And that is what do they do when they've been in their church a year,
5 years, 10 years, 20 years and all of a sudden,
it goes south. All of a second something really horrific comes into the pulpit,
and they've spent their life in this church. What are they to do? Now I'm really asking you guys who are pastors, but you know, do they go to the pastor?
Many do; many will go to the church leadership and say, "Hey we this isn't right. Can we show you from
the Bible why this isn't right?" And sometimes that's successful
and sometimes it isn't successful. And then do they just move on down to the church down the street,
and then it happens there. What are people to do,
my pastor friends. PASTOR MIKE: Yeah, well, since I'm the question asker,
I'm gonna ask Pastor Barry. What do you do? You know I want her to answer the question,
but we have a pastor here on the rack. PASTOR BARRY: As Amir and I travel,
that's the most commonly asked question. I hear that dozens of times, maybe even hundreds of times in the course of a few
weeks of people saying, "What do I do, how do I deal with my church that has defected? The first thing is you have to remember that your personal spiritual health is of
utmost importance and you need to be in a place where you're getting fed and taught. And I've had the question probably most commonly asked is, "You know,
my church teaches the Bible, but my pastor really doesn't focus on prophecy. And you know it's a good church and they haven't
departed from the faith or defected from the truth. But you know they're just not,
he's not into that or he doesn't this or that." And I always like to point them to the fact that there's an aspect of church attendance
that is beneficial to each other and that is the fellowship with one another. And as long as you're not being led astray and the church is teaching the Bible though
they may not have a focus on prophecy, you have access to many wonderful teachers online. And you can supplement what
you're hearing through that means. Now one of the first things, I think going back to the initial question, in looking at what
Paul said in Galatians, Paul obviously was being questioned as to his apostolic authority. And the first statement he made to the churches in Galatia is,
"Paul, by appointment of Jesus Christ." If you're searching a church's website and the pastors and leaders are apostle
this, prophet that, that's part, at least a component of the whole NAR movement. They believe God is restoring
the initial offices of the church. And Paul was saying: Listen,
appointments to the Office of Apostle are made exclusively by Jesus himself. One apostle doesn't appoint
another and appoint another. You know Peter didn't run get
Andrew and James didn't go get John. Jesus handpicked them all
and appointed them to that office. So that's one thing I would be careful of when you're searching a church's
website, you know, is the pastor Prophet So-and-so, or Apostle So-and-so? JAN MARKELL: Amen. PASTOR BARRY: That's a matter
of suspicion in and of itself right there. You know if it's dangerous,
leave. If it's teaching heresy, leave. And we are not to forsake together the gathering with other believers,
Hebrews 10:25. But when you get into that situation and you're looking for that fellowship,
you don't want to be supportive of something that's leading people astray. And if you have to go online for your teaching, at least for the
moment as you search for a Bible-teaching church, then that's what you do. It's better than having fellowship, Ephesians 5:11,
with the unfruitful works of darkness. PASTOR MIKE: Yeah, let me all remind everybody watching this: Now more than
ever it’s important to pray for your pastors and your leader and your elders. There's the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit and
how He can use the Word of God to open their eyes. Amir and I were in a country together -- I don't want to say which -- and one of the
pastors that we're working with didn't really have a strong opinion about the End Times. And it seems like he leaned
towards some strange beliefs. And Amir and I talking with him in the car, he came to a conclusion after prayer and after
looking at some of the Scriptures after one of the sessions that Amir spoke, he came back to us. Do you remember that, Amir; he said, "I am totally in,
I am totally in, now everything is clear for me." And also, folks, remember that pastors are human
beings and they are also very susceptible to error. And remember the scriptures. "Let no accusation be brought before an
elder unless there's two or three witnesses." And so if there's a concern of doctrine and others are concerned, go to the pastor
directly, work your system of honoring that pastor and pleading with them to change. And those are the best
practices that we have for you. We're one minute over. Can we have one more question? AMIR: Absolutely. PASTOR MIKE: This one is really important and we
parked on this one a little bit, and it's Judy asking this question. With the whole social justice teachings, even the gospel coalition,
she's concerned about her young pastor being so excited about that. Are young pastors enthralled with them, and is using their books to
preach from how are these movements dangerous, the social justice? You covered part of that but we talked
about some of the social justice movements. What is at stake, Amir,
if a pastor embraces the social justice? What's at stake? What are they gambling with if they
want to take their church down that path? AMIR: Well, they're basically instead of taking the church as a body that needs to be out of this
world and needs to be distinct from this world that we're in because we're not of this world, they're basically making the
church exactly like the world. And then you water down the Gospel because when you don't
identify that the problem is not there or there or there, but it's here. The problem is sin. You get have -- listen,
listen, they want Marxism. They want Communism. Communism killed more
people than any slave owner. Just communism
by itself is slavery. And so you have to understand. We must go back to the scriptures and the scriptures are, as we already
discussed that, the Scriptures are bringing us to the most important -- look. What is Israel's biggest
problem 2000 years ago? It's that they did not understand that the First Coming of the
Messiah was for the issue of sin and not to fix the world but the fix the soul. What do they want now? To fix the world. The world is broken, and in fact, what they do now, just you know,
Mike, is this social justice thing is nothing but the Tower of Babel. They want to remove
things and put their own. That spirit of
rebellion is there. That's why they've got that fist
pointing up; it's a spirit of rebellion. And this is exactly why these
people are burning Bibles. They are attacking creatures and they are harassing churchgoers
because it is exactly opposite to the message of the Bible and the Scriptures. Now I've seen enough people that were taking verses out of context and supportive
of the oppressed Black community in America with verses that Jesus said. But you know it's so out of context because I haven't seen them using those
verses when a five-year-old was cold bloodedly murdered with a gun to his head. I've never heard a thing being said when he
was shot to death right in front of his sisters. Why? Because he was riding
the bicycle on the lawn of that guy. Now you and I know, Mike, that if that man was a White man and that young boy,
five-year-old boy, was a Black boy, it would have played the narrative of social justice. But what we see,
we see that there is no social justice. There is a narrative here and when you start playing into that narrative, you're
not becoming Godly, you're becoming political, you're becoming a deceiver. You're becoming some sort of an
entity that is trying to push an agenda. And trust me,
Mike; the first people that Communists go after are the believers. After they already established their
throne as Communists, they go after the believers. So if you think that by supporting this you are actually
advancing than Word of God, the causes of God, that justice of God, you're actually a fool to think that, you're going to be the first one
they get rid of the minute they use you and then throw you away. Look in China, look what they did in Soviet Russia,
look what they did to people in Cuba and to people in Venezuela. Look, let's face it: Communism,
Marxism, Socialism; it's nothing new. It has been tried. It had killed more people than the Holocaust
and the two world wars combined in a battlefield. And it is a disaster that only Satan himself
can cause those people to look at it as paradise. I mean like evil is good and good is evil,
darkness it light and light is darkness; it's terrible. So any church that plays into that narrative is basically being played by a much darker and evil
powers and principality that are pushing an agenda that is satanic, diabolic, and is destructive. PASTOR MIKE: Yeah, Jan,
do you have any comments to make? Then I wanna give
Barry the last word. It's ironic that lot of these people will use the Acts passage that here look
Marxism and Socialism is biblical because the believer shared everything. They looked at others
that had need and gave. What's the blunder of such thinking when you have social justice groups like
this that want to use that as their trump card and say, "It's biblical, see?" What would you say to that? JAN MARKELL: Well, that is very that's an interesting
verse and this really has nothing to do with socialism. But I wanted to introduce one other
issue related to what Amir was saying. If we're going to talk social justice, what's crept into the church now and I believe
the Gospel Coalition is big on this too, and that's this Critical Race Theory. This has taken over lots of our churches,
Critical Race Theory. And again, folks,
because the mood in America right now is all race, race, race, race, these things are taking advantage of the climate in the
Western world and this is going on in Australia and UK. Everything's about race and again,
as Amir said, social justice. What does this have
to do with salvation? You know we hear
about Black Lives Matter. Jesus says eternal lives matter. AMIR: Absolutely. JAN MARKELL: And I believe that is what the church
needs to be focusing on today is eternal lives, eternity matters. Race doesn't matter; in Jesus,
we're all one, okay? There's no difference between
anybody if they're a believer. But eternity matters and I think all four of us would say that's why this ministry, that's
why Amir's ministry exists, mine exists, Pastor Barry's exists to see souls won and saved. Beyond that,
nothing really matters. Okay, that's my position. Nothing matters;
the hour is so late. All that matters is getting
people into the kingdom. Social justice won't get
anybody into the kingdom. Critical Race Theory won't
get anybody into the kingdom. Signs and wonders probably
won't get anybody into the kingdom. The gospel of salvation will. PASTOR MIKE: Pastor Barry? PASTOR BARRY: You know I think to underscore everything we've
been talking about is the importance of the Word, as Jan brought up. She certainly is in proximity, close proximity to ground zero,
so to speak, of what America is still experiencing. But the two hot spots now are indeed on the West
Coast and they are two of the hot spots, I should say. They are in the Pacific Northwest and they are Portland, Oregon and Seattle, Washington, two areas that
would fly under the banner of most of the heavily populated, secular, rational areas of our country. And that simply means people have no
religious belief system or affiliation whatsoever. And what you see there is these months and months now in
Portland of protests and all the things that have gone on there. Last night in Seattle, Washington here in the United States of America, Black Lives
Matter marched into several housing communities and demand people give them their houses. They asked them to
abandon their homes. AMIR: That's not
the first church's style. PASTOR BARRY: That's stealing in essence,
and you look at these things and you see the fact that the Word of God has been absent largely in
those two particular states, and now you see the ramifications of that. We cannot underscore enough the
importance of preaching the Word. And Paul said,
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but they will heap up for themselves
teachers because they have itching ears." But he prefaced that by saying, "In and out of season,
popular or not, preach the word." It's only the implanted Word
that could save the human soul. And that's what critical,
and it's the departure and the defection from truth is proving itself out. PASTOR MIKE: The ultimate irony is that
Christians and the Bible is the one that taught unity. There is neither male nor slave,
Jew nor Gentile. We're the ones; the Bible, the Gospel is the only one place of truth
that really offered so-called social justice because it addressed sin. It did address the sin. Amir,
we're done with the time with Q&A; I'm gonna turn it back over to you. AMIR: Thank you, Mike,
I appreciate your moderating this Q&A. I'm gonna mute you and take
you off the screen right now. And guys, I want to thank you,
Jan and Barry. What we're gonna do on our YouTube channel,
we're going to put the slides that we prepared with all of your social media. I am so thankful that the
two of you are in my life. I'm so thankful that we're able to be in a platform where
hundreds of thousands of people can listen and glean from. And all we want is that the name of Jesus to be lifted high and that the
people of God will stay close to the Word of God, not to anything else. I think that if there is one thing that we can conclude from speaking about apostasy is that the
departure from truth, departure from the Word of God is the open door for all of these terrible doctrines. And that's also obviously an open gate
for the enemy to come in and to deceive. And we've seen numerous things: the Dominion, the Replacement,
the social justice, Kundalini, we've seen faith revivals. We've seen a lot of stuff that we covered today,
prosperity, all of those things. We see that these are open doors for deception
because people aren't clinging to the Word of God. So I want to ask you, Jan, if you could to conclude this
one with a prayer and then we will say goodbye to people. JAN MARKELL: Father,
we just thank you that some have a love for the truth. We just pray that more and more people and pastors would come to
have love for the true gospel, that they would sharpen their discernment. Lord, just create a passion within every Christian to
be a discerner of the times, to be a discerner of theology, to be a discerner of the teachings that they're
hearing to know whether they're true or false. And if they're false, to flee and to know where to flee to because
the church down the street might have another false teaching. So God, You've got to equip the saints to be able to sort through
these doctrines and to sort through the false and have a love for the truth. And we prayed this would quicken, and there would be a quickening of a love for the truth and of
discernment in these very final, not just days, but in these final hours and minutes as we know them. We ask this in your name, Amen. AMIR: Amen. I want to remind you all that in Dallas, Texas, in Dallas/Fort Worth,
Pastor Barry and myself will be teaching next month. And all the information is on our
website and our Facebook page. Jan, hopefully you'll join us soon to one of the conferences;
hopefully soon we can join you to one of yours, of course. And that being said, guys,
thank you very much. JAN MARKELL: Thank you. AMIR: Thank you,
Barry, thank you, Jan. PASTOR BARRY: Always a pleasure. AMIR: And we will say goodbye. And Monday evening we're gonna have a Middle East update on so many things related
to current events, especially the new peace deal with the United Arab Emirates. And maybe by then one or
two more countries will hop on it. We're gonna try and understand
what's behind the scene? Who did what and why? How does it play
into Bible prophecy? And of course,
we want to encourage the saints that God is in full control. And so thank you. God bless you. JAN MARKELL: Shalom. AMIR: Shalom from Galilee, shalom, bye-bye.
PASTOR BARRY: Shalom.
