Alan Wake 2 Spoilercast, GTA6 Reveal Soon & World of Warcraft Hardcore! | Dropped Frames Episode 371

[Music] [Music] hello everyone it's drop frames time we got Zeke we got Co we have the Herold of Darkness himself Mr Cox first name Jessie welcome to the show Jesse how you been good good how are y'all doing you know not not we're not too sh you know it's it's we're doing okay that's what I'm here for let's go got mat got to match the show energy yeah how did you get the name Harold of Darkness where did that come from well I mean not the champ he's not the I think the champion of I don't maybe I'm all three bro maybe okay maybe maybe maybe who could say who could say maybe I can brighten up and be the champion of light there you go yeah now now you're a little blue though now now okay we can get there sure I'm not going to color balance you live on there I refuse to do this that's fair oh yeah dude I love the the the the Charlie Kelly like red strings like whiteboard you have behind you that's great oh yeah I got all sorts of theories and things happening yeah he brought props he's going to stand up and you can't see it it's cut off but I got a I got a mask over here oh yeah you I got an FBI hat over here I got a whole I got props baby got a little deer mask I'm like The Carrot Top of twitch oh wow true is that a good thing when did when does that's a reference for like three people watching when are you going to do uh when are you to start with the ster I'm very into prop comedy yeah prop comedy and steroids that's Jesse's two big things actually I'm I'm on steroids right now oh okay oh that's right I forgot you were uh you finally went to the doc let Round of Applause for a man going to a doctor woo thank you thank you very big big moment in big moment it was it was a big moment it was got some steroids huh they they fixed you right up uh I actually did the antibiotics first I didn't do it so now I'm doing the steroids and hoping that does so Jesus yeah fine yeah did they put a name to it the the no disease you have no no clue yeah citis I think yes con crud con crud you will yeah yeah Jesse were you at twitchcon you didn't go twitchcon I was you were oh that's right you were on the panel together I forgot about that you didn't get sick right or did you get sick uh I got a cold but it was only like um I don't know two days it wasn't huge okay you escaped yeah unscathed I was I was at twitchcon for approximately nine hours so oh so you got the nine hour version of of what everyone I got the short version yeah that makes sense that makes sense good y smart smart mhm anyways we're going to start off today's show uh with a little bit of a spoilercast for Alan Wake 2 since we all finished it uh this past week and then once the spoiler tags are gone that means you can tune back in if you don't want the spoilers I would suspect it'll probably be an hour but I'm not going to stop the conversation if it's a flowing uh and then we'll get into all of the news and stuff because there is a decent amount uh this past week with like GTA 6 being announced I guess uh with some other stuff as well golden joysticks are out there we can kind of talk about the winners we got nominations tomorrow for the uh the act I don't want to say the actual game awards maybe that's a little bit uh exactly yeah we'll talk about that when we get to it and then whatever else is going on uh in the world of VI games so uh spoilers are going out now this is now a spoiler cast you've been locked into a spoilercast we can now spoil the game you've been warned it's happening I'm not going to say it again okay here we go we gave everyone every chance possible to get out of the show if they don't want uh spoils for Allen wake too um Allan Wake kills Dumbledore oh God I can't believe it I couldn't believe it there at the end it was wild crazy crossover moment unexpected yeah it was wild it was wild it was wild we've uh me me Zeke and Co have kind of all talked about the game I think for now this is the third week running uh so we're a little bit of old news in that regard Jesse but we'll ask you old new in general yeah just we're just old in general this is the old person's podcast yeah uh but for you Jesse how'd you enjoy the game we'll just start there what uh what did you think of Alan Wake 2 uh I mean I loved it I am curious what uh the three of you like your exposure to the remedy vers is as someone who is like deep in it it checked all the boxes for me yeah I was like yep yep yep that's amazing that's pretty cool and uh yeah I'd love if a game is weird I will play it I am into to play it and I will Deep dive it that's like a you know what people make a 5 hour long video about like Dark Souls Lore that's how I am about remedy games sure I'm like oh what was that and how'd that work and what was that thing yeah and especially Allen wake 2 it starts connecting things in a way that I'm so pleased with so do you think that's a question I had have for people who really get into the Lura of things like do you think or I guess the better question would be how often do you look at something that is that is you find out is is not what you thought it was but you're like you're looking for signs everywhere to link this to this and that to that how often do you do that like incorrectly is that is it a lot or not so much um it depends on the little breadcrumbs left you know what I mean like sometimes I people accuse me of of pre-s spoiling a thing because I'll just make a comment of like okay that's definitely this and it comes true but it's not cuz I'm some sort of futuristic precog uh helping Tom Hanks Tom Cruz one of the toms um it's because somewhere in the plot they already dropped the tidbit and I just saw it was like going to put that away and make a call later and usually good storytelling does that it is almost always because the writers have created all the tools necessary for you to make like oh that's what that connection and um this game does that a lot all way 2 absolutely Nails connectors and in ways that if you play or have played all the different remedy games it's like mind-blowing some things that are in this game and they don't give you answers and they may never give you an answer yeah the fact that you can make the inference as to what it actually means you're like that's some good writing right there so yeah yeah yeah I'm a big fan well i' I because I've done like there's there's certain like like universes or or series or whatever like that I that I have been into in the past and I'll look at a stick and be like they left that stick there because of this thing and this episode of this game and that like and and it just be like dude it's just a stick homie like but it looks like that doesn't it like come on come on that's a that that was like you could see that right sure I think the difference is in this game everything that is meant to be seen has a purpose like like if they're creating something to add to this it isn't like if it's a stick it's going to be a stick that like yo that's the stick from this other thing because it looks exactly like that you know what I mean it's rubber duck find note typ type yeah like the rubber ducks that's a perfect example yeah the rubber ducks in this game could literally be nothing it could be exactly what your timeout think it could be nothing but if you play control there's like a whole other level of wait a minute that could be something but they never say that it is it just could be the thing I didn't see any rubber duct really I didn't see like oh I saw them everywhere I saw him in the in the I would have known that reference I would got like to answer your previous question Jesse like as far as the remedy verse goes I think I'm probably like a seven out of 10 because I played you know Allan Wake control all the max pains like I I missed a couple of dlc's I didn't play Quantum break unfortunately um but there were a lot of references that I didn't get and if I saw rubber duck I would have pointed it out and I didn't see one for some reason yeah the one that I remember uh right off the B was in the uh the well uh when you go down the well and fight the or or sorry not the well when you go down I think there might have been one actually in the well but when you go to the the Valhalla nursing home that fight that boss fight there's a rubber ducky walk like in floating around where you do the actual boss fight yep yeah that was the one I remember remember seeing damn open a bunch everywhere like if you just keep trying to explore like I was obsessive with this game I saw an they said it took 17 hours to beat they said it took 17 hours to beat I think I took 32 I was like I'm gonna find everything and see everything and I would spend time just sitting there Theory crafting like all right hold on what could this mean what is this thing yeah yeah that's what I love about these games is it it it's like um the same level of giving you the ability to create what's going on in your head that a a Dark Souls game would give you without the stress of playing a Dark Souls game it's the exact same Vibe sure yeah I think I actually well you you're fine with horror games one would say right you you're you don't mind the spookies yeah for me this was more give me a gun I'm fine with horror games if I don't have a gun it's I'm like why why can't I throw these things at them why are they chasing me oh yeah I hate it yeah yeah uh all right let's start here then let's get to the spoilers Jesse tell me why the deer what what's the deal with the deer I didn't understand anything with the deer is it because she's a sage or some [ __ ] is that I don't know why there was why there were eight deer that you could touch and then a deer lets you into a hotel room and you got a bunch of stuff from it so I think it all stems from Deer Fest yeah and the fact that the town's using deer and the fact that 90% of the art on the walls and photos is like of deer or people hunting deer yeah yeah in the beginning of the game when you come out of the lake there's like dead deer everywhere right um there's a lot of symbolism in The yeah I think JB's question is what is saga's connection to the deer is that correct I mean why yeah sure let's go with that I mean why why the deer ultimately because deer I had that kind of question too though like I know why why deer in general because of deer Fest and it's a you know it's a thing like coming from Montana we have weird like festivals like that yeah so that didn't that the but her connection her personal connection to touching like deer and stuff like that that confused me like I I wondered what that what that was yeah I mean I think as you keep touching the deer it's very obvious that she uh is not a fan of um like they're them yeah them being hunted but really like it's core the D are just another crazy ass manifestation of stuff from The Cauldron Lake like it is just warping reality and changing reality and so it's just another one of those things where the town is deer themed and deer appear around the town and it's just another kind of like [ __ ] should be weird here dude like things are weird yeah and so it's less of like oh that's very important more of just flavor for the world that you're currently in it makes it a little bit weirder if you know you pet a deer and then in your mind place the deer's like four left for four remaining you're like what yeah um it's just uh it's just more creepy kind of well this place is strange what's going on here but it's also a lot of red herring stuff because a lot of the deer Things Are Meant to throw you off well that's I mean so as soon as they introduced uh Tor and Odin and then the whole like I'm your grandpa type deal and that she had that she has the Mind place and she like all that [ __ ] I immediately was like oh is this like a Norse thing right is is that all red herrings or is that the question not answered or like is her mom Freya and that's why she's a sear and can and has a relationship to dear or is none of that a thing that's where my mind is like I don't know if any of that is real yeah yeah I mean again it's it's all open to interpretation they really don't spell it out to you but deer and Norse mythology is a thing I do not know their names but I know specifically there are deer that like munch on yrail I don't know if they eat the tree or they eat like the stuff that falls off the tree but it's like a thing and so if you have valala nursing home and you have Tor and Odin and balder you all these like their connections clearly there are connections and they want you to make those assumptions but they're not going to I don't think they're going to spell it out for you yeah you think they ever will it's been kind of a running theme I I think that it's more a like reaction to their Heritage well not necessarily in all the games but I think in this case they wanted to kind of focus on it to draw the connections between the familiar bonds so that was just one of the methods that they used to kind of make that a more concrete thing to to make it so there were actual breadcrumbs between it like using you know familial themes that were already established sure yeah suppose that makes sense oh interesting I just looked this up because I was like okay I gotta I got to know so obviously Sam and team do their homework and you know the scenes when you're in the mind Palace mind place and she's like sitting there and then behind her is that deer head but like when it starts to get all weird you see that only the antlers in the shadow um apparently uh the antlers are an extension uh of the part of the head of the deer this refers to an expansion of one's mind and Consciousness so that's another fun little thing to throw it in there like thematically and in nor yeah in Norse mythology yeah yeah yeah that makes sense well I'm GL I'm glad that I I actually caught that not not the actual meaning of it but I was like they set that up so those Shadow horns come out of her head yeah yep well the other thing too is is it's been a while since I've played controller you were kind of asking what our knowledge is of everything uh I played everything except for uh Quantum whatever the [ __ ] it was called yeah Quantum break uh I think Co was the only one of the three of us to play that Zeke did you play Quantum break no yeah that was one of the remedes I missed it was how let's let me just jump back real quick to that how much of a tiin is there apart from the sheriff like uh there's there's a great deal so the the three major things from Quantum break are um one the swirly symbol the the symbol that's on all the doors Two and in control yeah uh that shows up in that game so it's very clear early on they were going to use that for something right that had a point that shows up in in uh Quantum Break um obviously in Quantum break Jack Joyce I boy I hope that's his name uh Sean Ash Ashmore he is the main character of that and he is like the time jumping guy right he Quantum breaks fun thing his name in Allen wake 2 is Tim breaker which is very close to time Breer Breer um in in um Quantum break one of the characters that is constantly giving poor Jack a hard problem is a man named Mr hatch and played by Lance reck who passed away and now in this is Mr door and the fun thing is is when you see Tim on his notes that he writes on his whiteboard he literally has a whole thing where it's like door or he's like portal he like it's all the source for all these different things the only thing left out is hatch right which is like okay they wanted us to see that um in in the game uh in in Alan Wake 2 on his little board he has a whole thing about like there's this redheaded woman and sure you could absolutely think that that is Jesse feden but the Courtney hope the same actress is a character in Quantum break so like they are leveling it on and I think the reason why they're not coming out and just absolutely saying stuff is because they don't own Quantum break and they don't own max pay yeah so they're just like which brings up an interesting question would we have seen Jesse mcfaden instead of the redhead in Quantum break or vice versa if like did they in for control was that supposed to be a similar character do you think or was that supposed to be just completely different version of her in control in control it absolutely is a different person yeah but Allan Wake to posits that there are multiple so like the way what I'm talking about yeah yeah so like the way it works in Al W 2 is that there are realities and then dimensions and so there's like I'm not sure which is which really but basically there are things like um there are things like like uh the his place or the dark place right those are their own things and then there's like alternate realities which are the the max pain reality and the quantum break reality and they are sort of and they both can exist um but the main reality is the control reality like the one that like that's our real the old house the oldest house yeah that's our real world but the oldest house next to all those things right so you're you're saying that Allan wakes 2 world is not the same world as the oldest houseold no it is Alan wakes 2an wake 2 is in the exact same world's control same as Allen wake one that's quote the real world yes but Max Payne and Quan and break are alternate realities which is what Tim Tim says like look I've seen other versions of myself right and so basically that's the hint that like Okay so Tim is also Jack but he's not they're not going to say it because they don't own the property but like that's what it is yeah yeah did uh chat uh informed me now and informed me multiple times throughout the playthrough that in Quantum break the plot of Allen wake 2 is on a uh like a a board books it's on the books or something like that very early the books that say initiate initi uh initiate return all that kind of stuff they're actually in on a thing in want break on a chalkboard that like lists out stuff basically what end up happening is they were going to make an allen wake 2 and then didn't uh for whatever reason I'm sure it was something that happened and so they made Quantum break instead so like they had Allan White too planned yeah it was a thing that was going to happen and it just didn't sure for 13 years right for 13 years which they tied in to the you know into the The Meta of it all which is uh which is kind of cool um are we have we by the way just a little side note have we agreed on what what we call like the RCU the remedy verse like what do we call it I don't know they haven't really said anything themselves but I don't know what I don't know what the fandom is calling it either I have had many people call it remedy verse remed remedy verse yeah okay yeah okay because they're making I mean the coolest thing about this whole thing is again like Jesse was talking about tying it back to control the fact that they can really do anything with this story and narrative because of the awe thing where I mean they can those things have unlimited power they're completely unexplored they can basically do whatever they want with them to use them as narrative mechanics Mechanical Devices machines yeah and now you know we're seeing like Allen wake 2 is just exploring one of the plethora that are available for them to do so yeah it's a it's a very wild thing I mean they could they could it get to the point where they justify why Quantum break and max pain aren't around in the universe because of an awe they could just make up an aw that makes it like that those skism off and split off some for some reason you know so it's a it's a very cool premise that they're playing with right now they do very smart things where they don't ever specifically spell stuff out they'll give you enough clues for you to figure it out yourself there's nothing they're like this is exactly what it like a great example in is Wake 2 there's a lot of um footage and talk about that creepy ass movie that Tom Zay made if you watch did you watch the whole film I watched the whole film in the movie theater yeah which was a [ __ ] weird ass movie but it had so many parallels CRA it's like it's absolutely insane but the thing about that is if you're like a huge control nerd like me you're like hold up you go back you look at one of the dlc's and and part of the story was the fact that there is a camera like a like a movie camera that's been floating around throughout you know the the universe of of Remedy that whenever it films something it brings it to life and it's like okay hold up if that camera exists in the 60s could Thomas Zayn have used that to make his film and that's why everything is like happening and he could have created Alan Wake yeah like Allan Wake could have just be a creation of Thomas Zayn which why they look similar and why they have yeah yeah yeah absolutely why AE calls him Tom there's so many different things yeah and so it's like he finds thas Z in the room and it's him yes but he's but even Thomas is acting like it's a different person and that he knows what's going on and then Thomas and the oh anyway sorry go ahead no no no and and in that room control team is trying to contact him in that room and they're looking they're like yo Allan like why would they contact Thomas Zayn's room you like that kind of stuff where it's like hold up what is actually happening in this story and I think that's very SM what most importantly like does is control is are the are the are the people at control aware of what Thomas is and what Allen is and like they get there and and they keep calling Allan like yeah he does have the potential to be involved with the aw but they call Allan an awe they're saying he is the awe so if they know that are they saying that they know Thomas Z created him and he's this fictitious character that was created by the second so yeah here's the thing in that in the dark place verse you can't create you they called him a that's true that's true yeah yeah you can't create something out of nothing right so and Allan Wake must exist he's just manipulated by the story so the question is like all right well who are these people like what's going on maybe Allan is like maybe it's one of those things where it's like Allan scratch and Thomas are like an id ego super ego situation like who knows who knows what's going on with them yeah that's a cool idea where they're all the same yeah well we know I mean we know scratch and Allan are the same we know that scratch and Allen are the same we know we know that scratch is basically the the uh um the possessed version of Allen but it's the same person yeah and but then the whole whole thing that they never really explain is the Tom Allen connection and I was really hoping they were going to do that by the end of the game make that a lot more clear they they decided to go ahead and make concrete the connection between Allan and scratch but they never make the connection between Tom Allen why AE calls and that and all of that stuff there's got to be something much deeper there yeah um so like I wonder I wonder if that's going to be something they kind of flirt with later I'm sure I'm sure it will be but it's crazy stuff I'm reading all the different uh things from checks there's so many other threads Like Jesse knows Tom Zayn is a poet not a movie director the FBC tells her that she's wrong uh he yeah it's and I think don't they even call him Tom the poet doesn't even AE call him Tom the poet yeah one of his his last book is literally that the one that he goes missing at oh right that's the name of the book is Tom the poet right yeah yeah yeah and the film right film yeah yeah yeah that is true um yeah but again it's one of those things where if you watch the full film it's like hold up how is Alex Casey here how is ATI doing the music for it like there's all these different things and it makes you again question 90% of this game I always knew what was going on but then every time it be like but is this real is what I think true or is this another like well they do that at the very is any of this real I mean that's the end of the game too we we haven't really discussed but like I was kind of upset when the credits rolled and I knew nothing like there was no dude I love the fact they never had the girls information they never had the woman's daughter pick up the phone that was that's like the Inception [ __ ] thing and that pissed me off too that was wild that was wild I wanted to know I wanted and I who knows if they'll go back they might but I'm sure there'll be more questions uh if they ever revisit they revisit thatway 3 somewhere down the line yeah I I mean there's two DLC coming so we'll get something um we're definitely going to get an FBC DLC which will give us a lot more knowledge about what's going on in control two potentially because I was having trouble because there's a whole bit where they're like yeah ever since the uh Federal Bureau of control went silent I'm like hold up that happen and I tried to figure out like mentally what the timeline was and guess maybe cuz it's 2023 in this game and all the stuff in control I thought maybe the Allen wake DLC in control took place during the same time as this no it the message at the end is from the future yeah so clearly there's something still going on in the oldest house you ready for this you ready you ready for something we talked about at the end of my run then I'm I'm I'm I'm going to take a big stab here it's a big stab here we go they never explain why this stuff's happening in 2013 they have a monitoring station there everything's flipping out everything just happens my guess control 2 is going to be in parallel with Adam Allen weight 2 and it's going to be about aw all over the world activating for some unknown purpose at the same time and Allen wake is just one of them so the oldest house is going to go dark control 2 is going to be trying to figure out why that's happening and Allen wake 2 is just one of many different events happening all at the same time that you're going to be dealing with in control 2 trying to bring the oldest house back online and getting all these AWS under control so I love that idea but my posit for you is before control 2 we are going to get a four-player co-op controles game that is one of the two games that working on really and I'm and I wonder if it's going to be like a left for dead thing where you're doing if you're going around to different awes as a team to stop like that could be fun or what if that's the entire precursor to the house getting taken over and shut down what if that game is defending against whatever is trying to shut down the house and at the end of that game is when it wins and all the events start for Alan Wake 2 in control to I mean I'm here for all of it like in my mind I'm waiting for I'm waiting for the Avengers moment you know like this is clearly Jesse and Allan Wake meet up is that what's the Avengers moment I'm I'm not I'm talking Jesse Allan Tim bring everyone Saga can show up everyone can show I want it to be like now we're gonna get real weird Mr D we fig out who he is and he's been on our team the whole time I mean like it's fun like Mr door as a character is great because that dude is like a q level Enigma he is everywhere and nowhere his name is just like Mr dor cuz he's between the doorway of all realities and he's not a good guy he's not really a bad guy he's just kind of like y'all keep dragging me into this [ __ ] and I hate it and I got he's like Allan grow up like St you're making your own troubles dude it's it's he's very interesting and is definitely 100% saga's dad oh yeah 100% yeah completely 100% yeah I thought by the way so in this crazy stuff behind me let me see if I can get the spelling right uh but um Mr door as we know is potentially uh uh freya's husband saga's yeah Dad and in Norse mythology Freya is married to odor odor something like that and I think that's very cute if that's where they pulled that from um and that it also worked with like the parallel to hatch like the fact that that there's no way that's just a coincidence that they've been cooking on that for this long oh absolutely also uh freya's husband was known as the guy who traveled between Realms so like oh even I mean oh man is this entire game just going to be like like Norse mythology kind of retelling of Norse mythology I hope that but everyone like when I brought that up everyone was like no that's not it's all those are they're just names that's like a red herring like I don't know like like even in control like AE and finish he is he is but didn't he what I forget what was his relationship to the trees he is he cuz in control remember when when you go to the you see The Roots Forest he was in Forest is that what it was okay and that forest was like the cabin that he's at in control is in Allan Wake 2 right yeah yeah okay so again I don't they leave so many little breadcrumbs like when you go see ATI in like the foundations of the oldest house there's literally like a chisel drawing of what has to be idrasil like has to be that's what I remember and and when he when you complete the maze he gives you the headset and he's like these are some of my friends and so like clearly he knows the old gods of Asgard right but ATI is basically like a Finnish water deity so I mean like Mr door could be something from another Pantheon of Gods like who knows like it could be a whole thing like maybe there's alternate realities and maybe there's different things they all are just like we're just trying to save the world y'all and you guys make it very hard keep it open portals and weird things yeah a little search uh Freya was married married to odd also spelled odor uh OD uh about whom little else know except they had a daughter named hanas who was said to be beautiful blah blah odd was often away on travels when he was gone Freya wept tears of pure gold in her longing for him sometimes she traveled in search of odd and adopted other names so her looking for it it's yeah there's Parallels for sure yeah yeah oh it's very clear that they take a lot of time to grab onto things but never like I imagine most of their writing is obfuscation where they're just like yeah okay this is what it is how do we make it seem like that's not the case you know what I mean I feel like they have a lot of that it's I it's the kind of thing where they come up with the the end of the story first and then they kind of Trace that backwards and wanting to breadcrumb as best they can without actually divulging anything for sure yeah um which I think is brilliant and I think that lends to exactly what Jesse was talking about at the beginning which makes this game so fun is because sometimes they give you like that one little perfect sentence that will tip you off the slightest bit to what to what's going on um like I got to admit the time skip thing that threw me for a full loop that was awesome I loved that that was the first time when I was actually like oh like there was nothing about like this is awesome okay I knew the Allen weight thing and scratch thing when he came out I was like okay is that Allen or scratch like that was a little bit of but the whole the summoning then did the thing back then that ties into like time travel which they don't really play with too much with the rest of it like it brings up a whole lot of other questions ume thaten the minute it happened time traveling thing I was like hold on if time travel relates the dark place the dark place has no time does that mean potentially the Alex Casey in the dark place was the Alex Casey that got sucked in later in the game but he was in the past in the like anything is possible at that point you can literally anything could be true it could be like the Alex Casey that Allan saw earlier in the game was actually the Alex Casey that got taken over by scratch later in the story and then he got sucked in the dark placey and then he's like back in the beginning messing with Allen like anything is possible at that point because time has no meaning in the dark place right like soone my tat I'm so lost but I love everyone's energy that's that's Alan Wake in a nutshell that's that game I mean it's it's 20 hours of confusion like like uh JP was saying the whole idea of at the end it being like was the kid real who knows it does because Alan Wake like control is a different Beast like control if you had to do like a what is the remedy verse control will be the first thing you talk about this idea of like this is what's real these are the rules there's the objects of power and alter world events and all these different things and you start from there and then it' be like okay one of those alter world events is Allan Wake and and bright Falls and cauldron Lake and in that alter world event what is real who knows the whole thing is like it's altering reality and so a great example is ATI who we know from control to have some sort of powers because he can pop up anywhere and he's always like mopping up the trouble in this he's doing the same thing in the dark place but then when he's in our reality at bright Falls there's literally a whole moment where Rose is like oh AE he got in the Janitor's Closet again and he likes doing that he's old and scile just ignore him and you're like okay what is what is the real what is happening here and they purposefully do that because they're awful their re are like because they're awful but I guess that raises the question if this because you're talking about Rose when she says that were those thoughts implanted because of Alan wake's writing and he saw ATI in the dark place and that's why he wrote him into the story but then he's at the then ae's in the third floor of that building at the the nursing home and lets him into the writing room yeah so um I don't so the the one thing I figured out that I think is true is that you know the moment when there's sort of like that climax where Allan's like I have to write my way out Saga you and I need to work together and we're going to make like a good story but he says you can't just [ __ ] your way out of a story like you can't he's like I'm My Own Dex Mack up but you can't like just create an ending out of nothing because that's not how story like he's like good stories don't just like create nothing like create some [ __ ] ending you have to leave the breadcrumbs there my thought process is at that moment because time does not matter anymore all the things that were breadcrumbs along the way are things he went back and put in the story right and so a great example of that is Rose as a character Rose the entire time saga's like what do you mean you're getting little notes from Allen she's like oh yeah Allan sends me stuff all the time that's right yeah that's one of those things that I think was retconned back into the story so that Rose is involved with it and she's like oh yeah he sends me notes he sends me these things and even Allen when he's he's he's just like I don't remember all that but then that puts the idea in his head to send those things to Rose cuz Rose is 100% a good guy yeah so that's all the things that make no sense she's like oh yeah he sent me letters in like newspapers and like in the clouds there was something that's him adding it in so that by the end of the story it makes sense and that's how he can escape someone in chat just kind of threw a there's a Star Trek episode about that yeah yeah some someone in chat said but what if Alice is the one leaving the notes for Rose I mean look it very well could be but I feel like the hint is that Allan went back and changed the story I'm curious Alice seems to be the one who is helping Allan as we as we see Alice is like eff it I'm going back in the dark place so all the all the things that helped Allan Escape were because Rose was working on that as well and I'm sure that will be a DL probably the first DLC will be a little bit of of Al and Allen the names of the DLC are out right I forgot what they were let me um the second one is definitely the uh the lake house or whatever it is it's the one that is blocked off in this game night Springs and The Lakehouse uh and I think night Springs is the first one and night Springs is the it's the TV show that yep uh yes who is in it scary door yeah yeah it's the Allan Wake used to write episodes for it and it's kind of just like you know it's like the Twilight Zone type [ __ ] yeah but there's a thing at the very end though I remember when Saga is in the mind place in the uh in her mind place in the dark place in the dark place yeah which is just a weird sense she looks at the TV or something and I remember she says like oh that was my father's and so and so's favorite show or something like that well no no she she says that's that's her daughter's and and husband favorite show to watch that's what it is that's what it's yeah David her her husband and I forget uh blanking uh what's her daughter's name yeah Logan Logan Logan yeah yeah um so I wonder what that like I don't know what that DLC is then if it's those shows or well so in Al I'm sure they'll do something different but in Allen wake 1 for example the first DLC was literally like we're going to shoot stuff pew pew pew let's make the combat a whole and then the second DLC was like yo this is full story we're going to give you a bunch of stuff and then American Nightmare was like do you want to know who scratch is let's talk about scratch and so that was they may just make these very story heavy but we may get one that's like um we're gonna do a lot of shooting and a lot of Boss fighting and uh you know like in control when it's like this whole thing you're going to fight a bunch of mold for a while and you're like oh that's right I remember the [ __ ] mold DLC yeah yeah I hate the mold I hated that [ __ ] yeah but that was fun cuz what it taught you about control is that the hiss were like no big deal in comparison you know what I mean like there's clearly other terrible things out there so I think that's super interesting by the way speaking of like what's going on in her head the thing I absolutely loved is if you explored her head at the beginning of the game you would find the letter from the mom or the stuff about her daughter or all that stuff was there and so that's why I think the kid is real because before she starts getting manipulated there's things in her head from her life and at the end of the game she uses that to get out of the dark place we can assume the kid is real because of Tor and Odin like they confirm that those kids exist that she was there that that all actually happened uh I was definitely questioning that a little bit towards the end too and then really kind of went back and thought about it and they they confirm her very much that that is actually a thing I think the whole phone call at the end thing is more not to say if she's real or not but to see if got there in time to change the story and how that was going to affect it um which makes it even more kind of like of a mind Effy yeah yeah yeah okay sorry I'm W I'm ready I'm wrapping my head around all that still yeah um oh no so for those say I wonder if the daughter really died but it was just emotional she has physical items from her child being alive after the point the story said she drowned so there there is it is much more than just like her not accepting the truth it is it is much more of a did she get physically removed from reality via the story yeah that's the that's the big thing they kind of play with well is is there any other within the game or within the remedy verse I guess is there any other instances of Allen affecting things outside of the Town besides the daughter um no at this point no so the understanding that awes are they're contained right they're localized events yeah doesn't one of the control people say something that makes Saga question if she's part of the story I'm trying to remember I think one of the control people say something yeah so there's oh man basically the unlike the hiss in control which the hiss are kind of like a virus they just want to spread that's it that's all they want to do which by the way shout out to the remedy team for just constantly thinking ahead or at least being creative enough to use tidbits they leave like the threads they leave dangling because in control Jesse goes to see her brother and her brother they have a conversation where he's like I was he keeps talking about his weird dreams and one of his dreams he literally like I met this guy named Mr door and uh he could walk between realities and I was like Hey what if you let me and my his friends like go through to a different reality he was like no I was like I didn't like Mr door very much like that's a thing that's in control it exists so they were clearly like all right we'll just leave that in there and if we come back to it we come back to it but it's a thing and so I I think you know the hiss are just kind of like a virus the dark place is malevolent it purpose it wants out it is trying to conscious it's an entity right yeah it's a thing and it wants to like consume and so do a really great job of making the lake in the Game grow and contrast and expand as you like fight back against it or as it starts to take over towns and basically its power is growing and that's why it's like that it's like Rippling and bubbling over you know it's more of a like an ocean instead of a lake right and it's it's it's trying to expand and take over as much as possible and it's using its dark place energy to sort of change the story so I think we call that D energy D DP energy and it is trying to yeah a bubbling cauldron it's trying to Bubble over and take over our reality and um that's why that's dangerous because it's it's expanding and so the idea that oh my God this could end up in Virginia even though we're in Washington that could be that could be trouble and so I think that's what it's trying to say uh but most I think are contained or something like the hiss where it's it's another reality like this is very bad like this is a bad thing that's happening it's not a thing that happens all the time right yeah so real quick uh just clarify this for me um as far as The Cauldron Lake in the dark place they're two separate things or does the or the dark presence does the dark presence make cauldron Lake the dark presence exists in the dark place yes and cauldron lake is a is is a threshold or an overlap it is literally just a doorway okay okay there there's a great example there's like um notes I think about how like animals birds like they do not birds don't even fly over the lake like they sense something awful in that Lake yeah and so that's kind of ever since and again when did it open who knows it could have been when Tom Zayn was there it could be way before that and it's always been there isn't don't do they it could be after now it's just messing with us cuz time travel maybe yeah they mentioned early I think it's early in the game that it's or or maybe it's just a random thing that you find in that Hut in the in the forest they mentioned that cauldron Lake was a volcano or is on top of a volcanic something or other yeah yeah so is like are they is that the scientific reason for this is that there's like all these [ __ ] volcanic G or they just saying like no maybe that has something to do with why it is what it is but maybe not who knows we we generally do not know what was the Catalyst to open that portal to the dark place okay like it isn't revealed yet yeah um you know like we learn in control what caused the hiss to come through cuz the scientists and stuff were messing around with stuff they probably shouldn't have been messed with and the hiss got into their heads and made them keep the portal to ride kind of like funny enough our buddy uh scratch in Allen wake which could mean there there's some kind of like maybe the his is just an extension of whatever the dark place is in a less conscious aptitude yeah I think um one of the big things to take away from all of it is first off the power of rock always defeats evil but more importantly we we need to Spence more time on that but please finish your thought but but more importantly that like the hiss as we learn is like a one type of resonance and Polaris is another type of resonance and I would assume that the music of the old gods of Asgard is another like basically it's one of those like universal language things but instead of it being like the lyrics it's about the sound that's created um sort of like a positive versus negative energy we also don't know if the extent of the powers that Saga and and Odin and Tor have stops at them just being able to read minds like that very well could have something to do with the fact that their music has such a catalytic effect granted we know that art specifically can act as a medium that dark place can use but at the same time like there's clearly something else going on with that which is also really interesting because when you look at them in the musical section of the game they're significantly younger yeah which means that when they go in at the end of Alan Wake 2 they could have gone back to do that thing in there like at the earlier part of the game at a younger time like we it's it's wild to think if that's the age that they were in there then may how long have they known about all this like how at what point in in their lives did they go in and do that and then come out and how did did they know all this stuff was going to happen you know maybe their powers are are related or maybe even influenced by that um yeah well stuff man I mean the whole point of Odin is that he literally has an eye that can see the future right like that's his Vibe well even even during and chat just uh brought this up as well even during the scratch fight at the end the projections behind the band when they're on top are the young versions of themselves and more importantly balder's there and balder dies of cancer in in reality in reality yeah so the fact that he is also playing with them signals that is sort of beyond space and time or it happened earlier or it happened earli could happened earlier in their life that's true yeah another interesting thing with the time travel that someone pointed out in chat and good catch there when she talks to her husband at the beginning of the game she the husband is acting like he had received a bunch of weird messages from her so it's kind of like is he receiving that call after she had made all those panicked voicemails to him throughout the game mhm oh so it's kind of like the whole the whole you know time is not a loop it's a spiral kind of thing but like what if what if the whole events that transpired around that were like not exactly in order and that's what makes the game fascinating is when you think about it as a spiral it's clearly a spiral down like the dark place as a concept is like um I think every creative I'm sure everyone on the screen right now has had a moment where you've just like been in your own head and you just absolutely are are feeling like terrible and like your own thoughts are eating you up oh it's yeah thematically it's depression right like it's the whole yeah but it's also it's also like if you screw up majorly your first reaction for a lot of people is when you're called out on it to lash out at someone yeah and so you both hate yourself and now you're hating someone else even though it's all a you thing you're just making it worse and that's sort of like what Allen's doing is he's spiraling down and the fascinating thing and I think where we get our answers is if we go back up the spiral we should in theory hit the starting point like the the Catalyst of all of it we should get there we're we're gonna end up like who is Thomas Zayn really who is Alan Wake really what is Alex Casey's deal like we'll just keep going up and then we'll hit something that's like okay this is what started it all and that's what's super interesting I have no idea what that's going to be yeah I don't I don't does that mean we go back to like the 70s to means go back I mean doc Doc Brown just shows up and says like Allan we got to go it's about your kids and you're like what the [ __ ] are we Do's like I have kids and then it's just it just blacks out and that's the DLC that's the end there's a train somehow and it's flying around that'd be great it'd be 10 out of 10 yeah I I Chad was asking like out side of theories what is what is your favorite part of the game uh I'd love to have everyone voice I'll go first mine was when Saga goes into the dark place and that whole scene outside of um now I'm blanking on it what is the the the what's the game that's getting the sequel that's on Xbox about uh like depression and mental illness and uh oh you talking about hellblade since yeah outside of hellblade that for me was like one of the best representations of depression in media that I've ever experienced where she's like going through seeing all the things and like having them read out exactly how someone would think when they're literally spiraling down that and then how to like climb out of it I love that whole sequence even if it was just like let me just take this little note and put it here let me just take at the end right yeah at the end yeah yeah I love that entire sequence um even even more so than I the other parts were very good when they do like all the different the musical and like the rock moment at the end during the fight those are great but I I specifically love that one moment at the very end uh in the in the mind Palace in the dark place um what about you Zeke what was like your favorite your go-to moment uh I mean I love the the music video like everybody the you know the interactive music video that was you know fantastic um but outside of that uh um it was it it was it was the the climax what I think I might be the only like sort of like I enjoyed the game but I I might be the only like sort of voice of dissent as far as like this game didn't like blow me away like and I I talked about it at length after I after the credits roll and stuff or during the credits roll like I felt like I'm a fool or an idiot like why don't I love this as much as everyone else did you know mhm um and the the part you were talking about I have thoughts about that but favorite Parts like the climax the the the rock and roll like that was awesome that made me that it was tense it was a hard it was you know a difficult fight and it was you know the culmination of like all your favorite like characters are in there and we're all like on the same side you know good versus evil so to speak and it that was the part that I that I felt like you know I jammed the hardest you know it was it was [ __ ] awesome I I I really really enjoyed that sure um obviously the music video was very well put together I don't know is there a name that people are calling it like I don't know what what else I think the musical I think is there you go yeah the Musical part that that obviously was really cool but like while I enjoyed that it didn't like the intensity of that of that final battle was was [ __ ] great yeah yeah uh Jesse what about you what was your if if you had to like pitch Allan Wake to someone by naming your favorite moment what would it be um not worrying about spoilers let me give you that as well so you don't have to be like I don't want to spoiler it for him I have uh several favorite moments but um the best moment in the game if I have to pitch anything to anyone every ilmo and yako commercial in game is brilliant it is so much fun that seur it's like they say we can't get into government lands [ __ ] the government I was like maybe the best this is the greatest thing I've ever seen in my entire life they're so funny every single one of them is so well put together and it's just a dude from Vikings it's like truly an amazing little bit it reminds me of another version of the threshold kids from control and I love those I love the live action forgot about those those were terrifying the liveaction stuff they do is so good and it's so unique to to what remedy's making the way they mix the two and the fact that they get the actors who look exactly like the characters so they can do that and get away with it it is some of the best stuff in those games I love it yeah yeah yeah that the last one was very sad where he keeps throwing to his brother oh it's just like a you see like the little outline like the dark outline of where his brothers should be it was very sad very very sad it was sad yeah uh Co what was your your go-to moment for the game uh man I kind of like how the game I okay for me it's more of the entire presentation I really love how they kind of leaned into this whole thematic presentation uh I really really enjoyed um you know I I didn't feel like the need to run almost at any point um everything was just so meticulously cared for in terms of the presentation and the believability of the environments and everything I in terms of specific thing I wouldn't even know where to start I really liked the uh the wellness center I thought that was that was really cool that place is pretty horrify like the the level of it getting ready yeah to the well like getting into the Wellness Center and doing that part of it and and really kind of like the old folks home in general I thought was really cool um but yeah I mean it just that was really at the end of the day I liked I liked almost all of it like it was it was just it was really cool I love the progression of like figuring out the cult and how that whole thing worked and then learning their their and it felt very much the whole time like I was watching a movie yeah and and a lot of times it's tough to do that for a game because you know movies are so much content crammed into such a short amount of time and to keep that level of energy and Intrigue up for an entire 20 plus hour Adventure is really difficult but I feel like this game did it really well and that's awesome they did a smart thing where each EP like they made it episodic and every episode ended with a song and it was literally like you were watching Netflix show but you were watching every single you were like I'm going to watch it all this weekend I'm going to get like it had that Vibe where you want to all right I'm I would need to see what happens next in the next episode very well you're absolutely correct the way they put it together very very well done Y zek what were you gonna say I was I was just gonna ask someone in chat brother brother sub what difficulty did we all play on I played on normal I was on normal yeah normal I think CO's yeah okay okay well well well Co just curious I mean someone has to be a gamer on this show it's true yeah we got ourselves a gamer over here that um no to be to be honest the more I talked about it and talked to people it didn't make that much of a difference like hardest was not that much harder I mean yeah there were a few times when you know you get ganged up on and get put into a wall and the camera would be wonky and you'd die kind of thing but it it was by no means significantly more difficult than this might be a controversial opinion but the combat's the weakest part of the game for me when the rest of the game shines so much I mean I I don't think many would disagree with you to be honest I mean somebody was quick to point out when I said I like the game they was like there's three enemy types in the entire thing and I was like sure yeah that's valid yeah that never bothered me for whatever reason but they're right I mean no me too 100% if I had it to do over again I would have I would have started on story mode I wouldn't I wouldn't even have bothered with normal yeah I would have done I would have done like you know uh IGN reviewer uh difficulty because yeah the combat was unsatisfying in my opinion um it was it was all right I mean it had to be there uh to you know break up the you know it can't just be like a a interactive movie so you gotta have a little combat in there I get it yeah but like honestly it it didn't it didn't shine and it was clunky was a little clunky yeah it was yeah it was slows it was yeah exactly and coming off of control there's no like no comparison it's like sure hey we gave you uh crack would you like to try uh an as I know right yeah yeah uh love down the screen below is like one of the stupidest funniest moments of the game and just seeing my reaction again to it I was like yeah yeah that checks out that checks out yeah that was a really silly Part oh he's a good boy he's the best I also I also loved how earlier the guys like and he eats cats and I was just like what is this man talking about dude what like he's a cat killer like why do you keep mentioning this and then you get to this part and it's just like oh I wanted them to do more with uh the god what was his name on the radio it starts with a T he was in the very beginning Pat well Pat yeah Pat was great but there's a guy in the topio toio in the radio show had the biggest and he's great he was he had the biggest laughs for me out of the entire when he's like I've been on the line the entire time I was like this is it it is it's just real stupid energy and I love it it's it's so refreshing this game for as many times as it actively tries to scare you it also tries to make you laugh a lot and I think that's very unique in the horror space I love that yeah yeah well I I feel like that's kind of that's remedy if I if I had to describe them it's like scary funny that's they're scary funny that's the the type of content they make uh and that was toned down I think in control but then it was like tuned up uh a lot for this um and I I hope I hope they go back to like this game for me and this is just speaking for me not necessarily for for everyone this was a pretty terrifying experience and not one that I typically do enjoy on any level um I would liken this to kind of like a Resident Evil whereas for Resident Evil I think I'm playing for the game game play uh this one I'm playing for the story uh and it pulled me more so to play um with that in mind so like if you are at all like not a fan of jump scares it's probably still worth it you might not even be listening to this because it is a spoilercast sucks dude yeah I [ __ ] suck she was the worst one all myom I was on the show like two weeks ago saying like yeah I got to go to the [ __ ] nursing I [ __ ] hate this place everything about this place yeah I was I was actually curious for you was the water aspect of Cynthia also just like another level since you have theia yeah no I was not the minute it started Rising I was not okay thankfully in my head I mapped out exactly where I needed to go for that one puzzle where I did it instantly cuz if I had to run around the water rush chase me if you get if you watch that footage I look like a man completely stone-faced but my butt is so clenched and I'm trying not to lose my mind oh yeah I thought of you during that session CU I was like this is terrifying but for Jesse this has to be about 10 times worse the gimmick of horror games where they have the water level there's an invisible creature chasing you in the water and all you can see is the ripples I hate that I've always hated it I will Amnesia always Amnesia yeah oh yeah not a fan hate that yeah yeah that was the the Amnesia gimmick I remember uh watching a lot of creators do all that stuff so oh yeah no thank you no a fan yeah um yeah well cool anything else we want to uh bring up any other thoughts on Old Allen wake 2 can't wait for control too man I tell you remedy's at the top of their game like it is making games like them no one's making games like remedy yeah it's just it really is it's gonna be good the closest thing there's a lot of games that are art but this is the closest like AAA budget art you know what I mean like there's a lot of indie games that are trying crazy things but this is the only company out there that's like let's take some insane like there's no way major companies would say let's do a 14-minute musical in the middle of our game like right in the middle we're just gonna stop all the horror and all the mystery we're gonna do a 14 minute musical Madness and it works it's so good yeah because you're absolutely right when we see this kind of thing normally we don't get like what you would consider I guess you would call the AAA well-funded version and this year we got that in a crpg and we got that in a horror action game it's it's awesome I don't know man I got I got three words for you what a [Laughter] thrill that okay that the beginning of that is very Art House like the beginning of that is extremely but the rest of it it's just an action film yeah yeah yeah I don't still a cool thing though still a cool thing regardless oh yeah for sure I've been kind of waiting to to to bring bring this up and I just wanted to know like what your guys' thoughts on it if I'm crazy or whatever but like towards one of my biggest gripes in a lot of games and I play a lot of like uh well not a lot but I I play a fair amount of Japanese games and they have a Trope where like the big bad is done and then it's an hour's worth of just like epilog rapping [ __ ] up this game had that like when you were talking about like her put the stuff up on the board and stuff yeah I was I was still amped up from that fight I I thought like okay they're going to do like a wrapup you know and it it I thought it overstated its welcome like that that last part because I was so super amped like I love that that last fight it is a high and and yeah and the band going into the water like that was [ __ ] dope like I absolutely loved it and then it was just like you know like like just put the controller down and just you know watch watch [ __ ] or or actually use the controller to put the [ __ ] and then put it down again and then you know put the another card up and stuff like that I thought it I thought it like it took away my excitement from the thing and I just was like I felt like I was rushing and I didn't want I didn't want to feel like that and in my opinion I think they could have like transpose some of it to let let the the final fight have like you know leave you with that kind of Le um and I mean is that like it seems like I'm the only one person who who feels that way but I don't I don't know if you're the only person that feels that way in the world but maybe on this show you might be yeah sure yeah well that's fine I know like yeah cuz I I a lot of the game shined in its Exposition so I think yeah exactly I think I think the Comedown is a good way to think about it like I really like that there was a um it get it felt more like a reward for what you did in some ways to to get like actual answers and and see the results of what you've been doing and things like that but I on that note I know what you're talking about and I can understand why you why you would you know say that for it just seemed like they kept like the like and I understand uh uh JP when you were talking about like the the um display of depression like and how they how they tackled that and stuff like that yeah yeah it seemed like to for me personally it seemed like it could have been edited a little bit more it seemed like it was just over and over and over like same point same point same point different different word same point kind of a thing interestingly enough I sometimes got that feeling with the uh especially with some of the Allan Wake stuff and her in the what was it the profiling um like that I got that a little bit at times where it's just kind of like okay I'm on the fifth different section I've clicked on just say what you mean to each other you're trying you're trying to have a conf talk each other you know it's kind like that that that was uh but I think again that was more just because I was super interested in what was going on and I really wanted to like see that you know progress but the game is I it's very verbose and the writing in it is very much convoluted like that and I it's kind of a a copout but it's on purpose right for them to like be that ridiculous with the writing well the word goes back to said ear which they don't want to make it they want they want tocate the what's going on and have you kind of feel it out yourself yeah and I completely get that but it's like it's like handing someone like like handing someone something like uh a really expensive something and you're like it's really sour and and it's salty like and they're like yeah it's supposed to be you're like well I don't like it then I guess sure oh this is exactly the way it's supposed to taste I didn't like it yeah no you're you're and you're totally fine with like being that because it's a game that is clearly like we're going to tell you a mystery and we're and we're going to make it more mysterious on purpose like there are moments in the game where they very clearly purposefully made it even more confusing right but yeah there's also I'm not saying I'm a better agent than Saga but literally the first hour of the game in the first but in the first hour of the game they drop like an incredible tidbit which is as you're walking around um Alex and Saga have a conversation about like what kind of cult calls themselves a cult and at that moment I was like cuz it's not it's all Bs and then as they dropped breadcrumbs through the entire thing I was like oh they called is very like ilmo and yako and those guys they're very clearly caught up in stuff but they're trying to be good guys they're trying the reason why they're being scary is they're trying to keep people out of the woods and I figured that out like way early and the fact that it is until later in the game where she's like they're actually good guys I was like Saga are you kidding me right now I was like how do you where you been she had the she had the trauma of potentially losing her daughter that was uh sure there's like a lot of moments like that where excuses the game will not reveal to you the answer even though if you've played and read the notes it's very obvious what the answer is sure um because it's trying to be like here's what I'll say after seeing people's reviews I'm convinced most people reviewed the game rushed their asses through it I don't think they look for stuff I don't think they because people were just like oh yeah some of the reveals later were shocking I'm like I don't did you read the notes did you like do all the side things I wasn't really shocked I wasn't necessarily shocked by any of the the story in that the only thing the only thing in that game that actually made me jaw drop was when the time thing happened cuz I feel like that was one of the only things that they didn't really talk about and I cuz were other things that could are you saying and Alan no no no no no when Allan Wake when they when they did the whole concert and everything happened and we thought there was going to be a big ending and she's like wait it did work but it happened but what we did now is why Allan came out of the lake at the beginning essentially right like that was like oh damn like okay that's awesome like that's one of the only things in the game that really got me and I thought that was fantastic how they did that yeah um which also now that I'm thinking about it goes into even more confusion because that means that the dark place has control of time in the real world what exists outside of time I think is the other think the dark place is its own thing though like it exists outside there's no time in the dark place does that does that mean that the entire town is in the dark place it affected it affected the time and the real it infected the it infected the pest infected I'm going to call it the timing pacing of the real world not what was going on in the dark place but in that's the answer to the phone call at the end like we'll never is the area infected by the dark place to the point where like we aren't given an answer as to did Saga even make it out M because Allen's version of the dark place is literally New York where he's from and it's the dark version of that and Saga is in the dark version of bright Falls which is could that be her own dark place I don't know did she make it out we'll never know I guess until a DLC yeah good point that's true um okay let me bring something up that that was a another like General like o overarching like sticking point was the fact that when media deals with reality shifting or time travel or anything like that it means that anything can be anything like does does that not like for me me it takes weight off of everything in the story that is happening because it could either not be real or it can be changed by time travel like nothing matters because you can change it and that b what you're saying is why I don't like the Marvel Universe with the Multiverse stuff same same reasoning but in different in different times but the thing is the thing that I really like about what I'm seeing in Allan in Allan Wake is there's two different types of of kind of ways to deal with that from a story mechanism perspective one of them is that everything's already happened and the other is well we can just go back in time and change it to be whatever we want and it's pretty clear from the way that they did the whole Allen situation that they're using the one where it's like if it's if it's going to happen it's already happened so like Allen was already in the world when they sent him back in time it's not like they sent him back in time and it made a new reality like it already happened so going going from that we can kind of infer that you know they're not going to go too crazy with that at least that's The Hope um because at this point would make sense the opposite side of the coin the opposite side of the coin of anything can happen or it's already happened so you can't change it so it doesn't matter again well but you have to remember that like I see what you're saying what they've what they've done is they sort of like um tightened the circle as they went through all these games the the remedy versus G but then in this game as a circle tightened a bigger Circle formed around it which is like here's all the other [ __ ] going on and so the thing is is no matter what happens in Allen wake they're allowed to get tyy wiy Jeremy Bary whatever the hell that thing is they're allowed to get crazy with it right they're allowed to get weird because in the remedy verse the FBC control is still outside of that and so they're like oh that's an that's an alter world event if we can stop it from happening all that stuff will cease to be so there's like you know there's an organization who's like fighting against that but in this one story it's all out of whack right but again if if that were the case if like you have to accept the fact that and like that this is what I'm saying in stories like this you have to accept the fact that certain things have rules but certain things don't is the FBC and everything outside of cauldron Lake actually happening because it could be part of this story or you know that's what I'm saying I mean it is it is there's a lot of stuff again there's a lot of hints that maybe Allan or Tom or whatever wrote some things and may like you're absolutely correct because there's no answers yet and it's all sort of amorphous to what they're trying to tell there's so many loose threads but the smart thing is because there's so many loose threads they can tie those off when they need to and so right now there are no answers and that's kind of the fun of it is is we're not going to know anything till much later when they give us more answers but the smart thing is is that when control came out it answered a bunch of stuff from all the worlds they've created this game answered a little bit more and I'm sure control 2 will answer a little bit more but they're never going to be like and here's how time travel works or here I think and I think that's smart because they are trying to like well we got to go to the quantum realm in order to travel back in time and drop off the stones and like they're not trying to do that and explain it in a way that makes sense they're just like it's it's insane the whole point is it's insane like we that's Allan Wake it's supposed to be a mystery and it's supposed to be like a spiral down into madness and you're supposed to be like what the [ __ ] is happening here I think like that's the point of what they're doing well let let me ask you uh a general question then how how in the game do you accept or or uh how do you know what to take as real I think when when does that half the fun like you don't even know by the end of the game if what's happened is actually happened so I mean it's it's I think that's one of the things that like that's one of the main story themes they're flirting with is what is real what happened what changed what never could have changed like that's the whole point that they had her at the very end of the game make that phone call and not have there be a resolution it's because even then they're still going you know what change what happened did they actually win like I you know that's the theme it's one of the the themes of the entire thing yeah it's um the the the concept behind what I mean even the first Allan Wake right Allan Wake in order to save his wife sacrifices himself to the dark place and that's what the dark place wanted the entire time right so like there is no satisfying ending to the first game so this game is not going to have a satisfying ending in a way that's like we have a definitive this is what happened because it is purposefully trying to mess with you the viewer just like any sort of you know like uh Twin Peaks or um A Deadly Premonition or any of those games where it's like let's get weird with it and I think it's supposed it's it's almost like um a cosmi eldy horror kind of vibe where that you know a a simple person like it is above our pay grade as humans to truly understand what is happening and in this case the best we can do is Allan realizes he's not looping through everything it's a spiral and the question is how do we get back up out of there because he continues even he when he gets shot in the head which is like a whole thing they show multiple times in the game his way out is to end it right with a bullet of light but like even that sends him on the loop the question is where on the loop is he now is he going back up is he going back down what is happening to him and now that Saga was in the dark place is Saga out what is the dark place's plan for all like there's so many questions and I think the fun is unless they give us more games we truly won't know exactly what is happening because this is um this is like the end of phase one or the middle of phase two of a Marvel of of of like MCU where it's like we're building to something something is gonna happen we're just not there yet and so I if anything I would say the the biggest problem I have with this game as like a a game is if you aren't into the remedy verse there's a lot of things I don't know how you react to stuff yeah I don't know how you would see a lot of the things happening in this game because I imagine you'd be like what the hell does that mean what is that and so yeah I'm very curious what they're gonna do with the story I and for me that's what's fun because I like like all right where do we go yeah I think one bit of good news is very clear that this game was super well received so I I'm hoping they're just if nothing else going to lean into it and not feel the need to like overgeneralize it which is which is good so you know the more weird stuff the more connections that they make you draw instead of Handy two on a platter I think the more interesting the whole thing is as a whole yeah zek I don't want anyone to think like I I didn't I I played the game all the way through which is you know saying something because you know if I don't if I don't like a game I I'll stop playing it I don't care if I'm you know right at the end I don't give a [ __ ] I will stop playing it if I don't like it I loved it I absolutely I had a great time playing it I just had like these these weird like annoying uh moment like like we were talking about like all the the reveals some of some some were obvious more obvious than others and so on and so forth but there were so many twists that it's it's every every twist dulls The Twist of the next so it's like oh nice twist that was pretty good twist another twist oh God a Twist oh [ __ ] another twist like it started to become like commonplace for them to like hey like I I I made the analogy of like if at the end of Scooby-Doo they just kept ripping like Oh Mr Withers Oh Ellen wake oh suck and you're just like stop stop with that I'm good now sure I just got the funny I just got the funniest image of Zeke at like an EDM concert and he's like oh another [Laughter] drop God this like the fifth one but a drop I'm sorry fair enough not the same but fair enough no funny I see what you're saying I see what you're saying completely yeah I think the concern that that I have I'm I'm not there with you on like the Twist and stuff but there is a concern I have in that I love things like this game where it's Mysteries upon Mysteries and every time you think you know something you don't know something which is why I was a huge fan of the show Lost when that was on I was about to bring up lost yeah this the whole feels very losty the ending of lost sucked it was not good and that is a danger for something like this for the remedy verse they got they cannot deliver on an end like it's very possible that they cannot deliver on an ending they might set up all these Mysteries and then just not give us what we need which or Worse not even give an ending what if what if what if the entire end of everything is just another one of those phone call situations yeah yeah and that would be just as painful and and part of the fun of watching loss as I remember vividly uh when I was like I would listen to a podcast where it was people on on the island they were filming in Hawaii and they were like we saw these people we saw people filming This and like maybe could relate to this like the theory crafting was what was fun and it was the Journey of going through it that in that like really got me which is why I love stuff like this where I'm like in it and I'm thinking about the crazy things and wondering what's going on but absolutely there could be a moment where none of this has a payoff and that would be super disappo yeah that would that and I would be furi like all the things you're saying about like time travel and the Mystery I would suddenly be like Zeke was right Zeke was totally right like they had nothing they had absolutely like that could very well happen it could absolutely happen I have no clue but my hope is that like it builds to something fun and we get our like Avengers style remedy verse game where it's just like all of it's coming together baby let's get crazy that would make meart though smart thing to do is never well you can only do that once right they won't St forever yeah and that that's also a fear like how long does this last right do they do they keep stretching this out or or yeah when when is the quote like big reveal of all of this is there that that ever occurs I mean I guess there is though right like yeah it depends they want to do yeah like in control the idea of what's happening out in the wake is it's like just a another day at the job yeah like it is like the events of Alan Wake aren't they're just another world ending Calamity that the FBC deals with is another just another awe to put in their vault isn't there the idea though that like Allen wake is the reason that all of the awes are happening in the first place and that like he was he was potentially going to lead the Bureau of control at one point because he was what wasn't that in control oh are you talking about in the DLC I think so I forgot where I read that or or where that that thought came to me but I thought that like at one point they were going to see if he wanted to like be the Jessie of of control and like take over the the bureau etc etc I don't remember that at all maybe I'm making that up no no no if I'm wrong about that so Chad is saying he is mentioned as a potential director in control yeah Allan was p that is because the reason why he's mentioned is because much like Jesse feden he is a par util par utilitarian yeah yes so like literally they just have a list of all the they have files on everyone that they have found that can use and manipulate you know all the objects of power without being affected by it like in terrible ways um a lot of the time when you mess with anomal power it like messes you up which I think probably Le like lends the idea that Tom Zayn found that magical film camera and that's what caused all of his problems sure um but like the dark place is just another another it's sort of like um if anyone out there is in the SCP stuff there's like all thousands of scps and there's the SCP organization and all they do is just manage it and it's the exact same Vibe the the the the the control verse the Bureau of control the FBC they literally just are keeping Earth from being swallowed up or messed up by some other terrible thing they're very much kind of like a TVA situation if you're in Marvel they're they're they're just the the the the people protecting us from trouble so Allan Wake a as a story is fun and it's its own thing and it has little tidbits for the rest of the universe but it's like one problem right in control they make it very clear there's so any other problems and that's why Estes is like yeah we got like a normal agent to deal with that like Jesse feden isn't popping up in bright Falls to help with dealing with the dark place a lot she's the director and they've lost control of the old house so there's yeah there's clearly something else that needs her attention yeah yeah which potentially is control too y cool that seems like a good place to uh to end the discussion I suppose not to cut it to Jess we're going to have you on after control 2 again if you're up for it yeah or or even the DLC the DLCs depends on the DLCs I guess yeah my hope is that the DLC about the Lakehouse which is like where the control facilities are will at least explain why it's dark what's going like hopefully we'll get more answers very similar to the way the Allen wake DLC for control gave us answers about what was happening in the Allen wake storyline yeah yeah that's my hope I'm still the mind that that is is just a story but she's not real I mean that's her name right like yeah she could be completely made like again because we never see her outside of this like right we never see her outside of the of the of the brightfalls or whatever this that that microcosm that little area apart from the driving we don't but we do know that there's real people outside of brightfalls that are affected and unaffected most importantly by the story so we can assume if they're real then she has to quasi at some point be real as well well you would have to it right so the thing is is that the again the big conceit of what the typewriter is and what like you can't create something from nothing like everyone H you can manipulate it you can change it but like Saga could be a person maybe her name was like Jane Smith but the minute she drives into town suddenly she Saga Anderson you know what I mean like you can do that and again she's brought to the case by Alex Casey and Alex Casey is potentially not real like there's again so many ways you can read the story like father and door is also leading wake and door is also influencing scratch honestly I think we're going to find out that Mr door is like something bigger than an old God of Asgard something bigger than ATI like he is clearly has a purpose and what that purpose is I'm sure will be a future thing of some sort but yeah he's like he tells Allan like Allan you're doing this to yourself right he's protecting Saga he has meetings with the old gods of Asgard like he is his own thing and and I I see people in chat being like he's Heim doll I think he's bigger than that well here's also something really interesting to think about here's something else interesting to think about Tor and Odin have the power the power was passed down to Freya which was then passed to Saga what are the chances through Serendipity that Freya who has this power would just happen to meet this guy named door who is also fully invested and at a part of this story but in a completely unrelated way like there has to be some D ofx mchina there between Freya and door their meeting why they he got chased away like Mr door doesn't seem like a totally unhinged dude what happened between him and Freya why did that happen did he get put in wig style situation Odin and tor banished him or not banished they never explain why they never they never explain like what the whole per like they they just said that he was a troubled guy and they don't you know and they buted heads and stuff like that but they never talk about like why that happened and why that whole thing transpired right who knows I mean that's again that's the fun for me at least I can see why it's frustrating for other people like I get it yeah I mean that's that's the game in the nutsh showell I've got one one important question who wins in a fight or Mr door is it it depends is it a sing off well we don't even know if they're like that type of powerful do we I think they're probably the two most powerful people in the entire story but like what is what is power do you think door is a power or a tool well I know that Tim is a tool of Mr door here's what I would say I would say that Mr door would show up to like duel in a music dance off battle ATI but ATI would give him some sort of Ted lasso like speech and diffuse the entire situation H you with some IDI both go out and get a drink yeah okay yeah I think that's valid I think that's a good way it's a copout answer but that's the Allen wake answer I think it's a lovely answer yeah yeah because I feel like none of them neither of them fight yeah that's what I they have power but they don't necessarily fight yeah it's very like Q like in Star Trek that they're just sort of above it but they they're interfering for some reason that we don't yet understand they're invested for a reason yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and and and invested in ways like uh do you think they could be they they could be or have they been affected by the objects of power uh in this ATI for sure is when he's in the nursing home he's like going through it he has like a whole Ling around yeah which is a little weird like he's he he's having like he's very clearly the story is writing over him cuz Rose is like oh ATI he just got in the Janitor's Closet he's done but then ATI in his bedroom is like I don't I don't know what's going on with me manad so yeah like it's very clear something's happening to him okay sorry I was reading chat more more theories in chat which I don't know if we need to get into but like that's for me that's the fun of game like this is the weird Theory and coming up but but yeah if you're not if you like are a person who needs definitive answers in your life don't play this game this game will pure you it will torture you yeah yeah yeah I don't like okay I I don't want to get it twist like I don't mind mystery I love a mystery that last like I love the end of inception loved it sure uh I thought that was great but for for the the things to have weight or consequence or you know to have effect the thing that was missing was like solid reality rules you know and this just doesn't Happ so it's just like when Anything Can Happen nothing matters kind of thing for me like I'm harping on this I'm harping on the same thing but it's like no but like did you enjoy control giving you answers though because if so then yes I did then yeah control too is is what would probably give you more answers right because it's more ground C but we had that discussion when I we had that discussion well like I liked Allan Wake one a lot more than I like this one um but controls like for me outshines all of them yeah interesting I personally found Alan Wake one okay and this one I felt was like a masterpiece yeah I'm the same Allan Wake one to me I was like it's a lot of like uh I don't know Allen wake one is the exact same Vibe for me as um Deadly Premonition it's fun it's not great it's fun I like what's going on but it's like it's it's flawed you know but um it's very clear that you're just pointing out my taste I'm like yeah Deadly Premonition here's the thing Deadly Premonition 2 is hot garbage and I still enjoyed it like it is I was like this game's so goofy I'm yeah I don't know it's I think if anything remedy has figured out what they are as a studio and as a company and like how they want to tell stories and each one for me at least is clearly a more creative outing each time and they're like let's take more risks let's get more wild and I just like seeing that happen because again I'm so I'm constantly disappointed when like a big game comes out I'm like it was all right it was okay but they played by the they like is by the numbers and they like know what they're like it's it's seeing stuff where I'm like I can't believe I'm watching this I can't believe a company made this always makes me feel good so that's why I love these types of games yeah yeah there's definitely no one else doing it like remedy they're they're in their own yeah thing their own aw making games like their own their own way uh and I I the other thing too which we've mentioned multiple times I hope other games uh look this good moving forward even if it does take a [ __ ] Powerhouse of a PC uh to run them I love the the graphics push uh of of all of it and they did that with control as well I felt the same way with control cuz that was like the big that was the first time where RTX like made sense in a lot of ways uh you spend 10 minutes like look at that puddle yeah I can see myself in that puddle yeah uh it's that that was control for me as well and this one is just like look at the [ __ ] lighting look at this stupid lighting and this stupid Diner that makes no [ __ ] sense and you just walk over to it and put your leg in front of it and watch it diffuse around your [ __ ] leg like just stupid [ __ ] like that uh yeah yeah so anyways that's the end of the conversation we're done spoiler talk going away yeah uh yeah thanks for for coming on we're not done but thanks for coming on Jesse I I think that conversation could only have happened uh with you so we'll have you on in the future I would love I mentioned this on Twitter I would I don't think it would I don't think it would be a good interview because Sam's not going to say anything of value to the story but I would love to talk to Sam Lake on a show he's not just going to come on the show and be like well you see but he'd he'd be fun just to chat with I think I would love to ask him about the dance number like I want to know how it like came to be not just how it came to be but like filming it like I can't I imagine it was kind of the level of like Oceans 11 where it's just a bunch of dudes who are all friends making a movie for like shits and giggles like I have to imagine it was fun to be there that day yeah oh i' I'd be baffled if it wasn't to be honest I mean that that was amazing yeah he's he's also it's like such a unique thing to I think write these type of games I would love like Co was saying do they know the ending and they rote back from there or are they just making it up as they go along and like tying everything together or do they just have a board with like it has to reference this this that this that that and this I think Jesse said something interesting and I and I do wonder that I wonder if they purposefully do things sometimes to ask a question they don't themselves know the answer to sure like maybe putting that Alan Wake thing about being the director maybe they didn't know where that was going to go you know maybe they didn't maybe they had a rough idea about the books in Quantum break but didn't really have a firm idea you know just like putting out their own breadcrumbs that that they can themselves follow in some cases yeah he' be JP I think this is very specific to you and me but like it's very similar to the way the Final Fantasy 14 Dev team does things where they leave loose threads and then later two expansions later like oh my God I can't believe they planned this all out it's like no they didn't plan it they just had a thread and they wrote down a note like we need to answer that at some point we're doing spoilers and I'm sorry little bit oh did I I remove that was slight I mean we yeah but I agree Jesse I agree um anyways uh spoilers are over no more spoilers sorry about that chat that was on me more more so than cuz I removed the spoiler Tech my bad too uh let's do some news well the biggest news this past week I guess arguably um Rockstar announced they're doing GTA 6 after Jason shrier leaked that they were doing GTA 6 oh Jason uh yeah Jason caught a lot of [ __ ] for that uh I saw it like that was the night PRI if I recall uh when when all that went down was him saying like Allan Wake six or Alan W six Jesus Christ GTA 6 is a thing it's going to be announced as soon as this week and you're going to get a trailer sometime in December then the next morning about 12 hours later Rockstar Games tweeted that very same thing uh we're very excited let you know that in early December we released the first trailer for the next Grand Theft Auto look forward to many more years of sharing these experiences with you uh and that was from Sam Hower uh and wasn't that reply like wasn't it like the third reply down or something yeah it was it was the third tweet of a series of tweet yeah it's like the most Rockstar way of doing things it had like 800,000 likes on a on a freaking third reply yeah let's here uh it's at 1.5 million likes now 502,000 retweets um how did 169 million views something leads me to believe that game's going to do okay when it comes I think they're going to be okay yeah the Rockstar is pretty successful it's pretty wild um what do you think the timeline for that game is when do you think we'll see it next next year I think next year I think it's out next year they've been working on it for a while yeah oh yeah sure sure sure I think I think the bigger question is like what what is that game like what is it just another Well produced AAA story like GTA 4 GTA 5 was or like are they are they doing something absolutely CRA I mean the the game supposed to have uh cost like one to two billion dollars with a be supposedly the the rumor I heard is that they are much more um leaning into the social aspect with this one yeah so kind of taking a page from the GTP stuff not necessarily in that regard not like having gtrp in the game but lot more like other players it's more of a social experience in the city so it's like an always online I have no idea you think it would be an always online thing yeah I don't know I know what that would look like I mean if you look at like if you look at GTA 5 today very little people talk about GTA 5 single player story it it's like not a it was good when it came out but GTA 5 now is like yeah the the GTA online just cranks money out and then I think in our sphere it's like oh yeah GTA RP is you know kept GTA huge on on like the content creators aspect I I don't know what GT G I really truly don't know what GTA 6 looks like as like an initial launch like what is it just another just another story I don't know I don't know what they launch with uh and does that does that undersell or not under sell does that disappoint the fandom of Grand Theft Auto if it is just that at launch and then GTA 6 online follows which is kind of what they've done in the past right right or do they even do an online component is it just a single player thing and then they bring over kind of everything that the online aspect is I do not know I don't know what that game truly looks like uh apart from just more GTA ultimately um because we kind of saw what they did with uh with red dead and that was very much like what they did with GTA 5 but just in the Red Dead framework from like a story and and the IC element is Rockstar known for taking crazy chances cuz really they just home like they hone in on what works and they like create bigger versions of what works they'll figure out what Their audience loves and they'll be like okay we're going to make a bigger version of that and make it we're going to give you more story and more crazy things to do but they aren't like we're going to get real crazy they you know they play it safe often so I don't know if they're going to come out and be like next game it's like an MMO I honestly think people that love Grand Theft Auto would be like nah no I'm not playing that I honestly don't know I agree yeah it's a space adventure yeah yeah well that's the thing the Moon that that's the thing is is GTA are not those GT are fairly grounded stories they're grounded stories in the fact that like yeah you run around La and murder everyone right but it's still like it's still earth right it's not space it's not uh it's not an allen wake thing where you is this real real it's like nope this is LA and uh you've those guys took your your drugs or your your car or whatever um so I I don't know what unless it's just a well- told one of those um I I think weren't some of the leaks like it's a you play a husband and wife I think is the main characters um I remember reading something like that so like that could be a thing but still style yeah I I don't know that could be fun yeah um I I don't know what the um unless they go for like it'll it'll probably have the thing kind of like what they they did somewhat in GTA V where you can swap between the two kind of like what they did in Spider-Man where you can swap between the two and it's pretty much instant I think that would be cool um I don't think they make it like a co-op experience I think it's probably going to be a single play story um and then they just go crazy with the online stuff and maybe that's where like the social elements Co was the MMO elements come into play but I don't know I mean they're definitely going to do something where you have to buy extra stuff right be yeah no there's gonna be yeah yeah yeah there's gonna be that somewhere they'll fit that in there yeah absolutely absolutely um we'll see I I guess we'll see the first trailer uh next month here's the other question uh and this actually had a longer a bigger discussion uh on the internet that than I was expecting does key get that at the the game awards or is Rockstar going to do their own thing because they're rockstar I say no I say Rockstar does their own thing Rockstar does their own thing yeah they've always done their own thing yeah I was going to say I don't think there's a history of Rockstar dropping trailers at the game awards but game it's also a different time now like game awards is [ __ ] huge but Rockstar was the game awards 10 years ago yeah but GTA is also GTA like the the the uh the I think the Jason shrier tweet was like the biggest game of all time I don't necessarily disagree with that statement like GTA kind of transcends the idea of video games into like popular culture with how many things have happened around its uh as an IP so I don't know I don't I I don't know where I yeah I would I think if I'm Jeff I'm trying to get it at my show oh hell of course yeah but I don't I don't know if if Rockstar is open for that if if they even need to advertise outside of their own thing I think that tweet kind of shows that they need to advertise yeah I mean that's a crazy amount of of exposure for sure yeah so if I was Rockstar again I'm no PR genius but if I was rockstar I would give key because the game of awards is the seventh so I'd give key a like because game awards is the seventh rockstars 25th is the 10th so I'd be like here's a teaser for a thing that's a teaser for our trailer you can have like a 30- second in three days yeah it comes out so Jeff gets a thing and they get some hype and then people are ready for it to drop on the 10th like that's what I would do as sort of like we get a double dip yeah that could happen especially if that's like the the that would have to be the final thing right the like the final trailer they drop or the final trailer he usually ends on Game of the Year and they don't do any trailers after that but that's like the leadup trailer to that moment right like I I I don't know of a bigger thing that could be dropped at the game awards than the trailer for GTA 6 unless they drop like Elden ring DLC is Elden ring DLC bigger than GTA 6 I don't know is El I me ring better big the GTA 6 yeah so I mean no but like you know one could be much more hyped than the other you know what I mean like it depends on what is shown yeah yeah like it really comes down to what it could could be I mean yeah but if you're saying in general is anything bigger than GTA no which is what Jason was saying which I think everyone agrees it's the biggest game in the world which is why it's a billion dooll game they're making yeah that's also just insane because like Star Citizen the the the meme of all memes is not even at a billion dollars right so what do we even like what is g how what does a billion dollar game do I don't know that's that's the big question um but I suppose we'll see TR think of any game would it would be bigger than that like any announcement of any game yeah I don't even think like like a new a new Elder Scrolls no I think GTA does better than that I think like halfly three like that Meme like nope no yeah I I think it's Auto skape [Laughter] 4 yeah even that people would like not be nearly as hyped as finally seeing G like unfortunately I love how somebody T said Mass Effect 4 and it's like oh is it 10 years ago that kind of happened uh this past week I mean they they show that trailer part of even that I was like all right cool I was like all right dude that was I I was watching like Diehard fanatical Mass Effect fans and they were just like what the [ __ ] is this [ __ ] like it was the Joe pesy meme I'm just like why the [ __ ] are you g to show this this does nothing and then the report came out the game's not coming out till 2029 the problem with BioWare is they love they're like here's a little tease and they keep doing it and it's after a while you're just like I just either release the game or not like I just don't care like stop giving us like pre-rendered like I'm cool and I'm walking down a hallway like awesome y'all cool yeah it's another unfortunate larger problem is that BioWare is not BioWare anymore yeah so that has significantly deadened the hype unfortunately um and also like that's six years if it really truly is not coming out till 2029 because they're going to they're going to do Dragon Age uh dread wolf or whatever that ends up being named first that poor project man how the [ __ ] is BioWare going to exist another six [ __ ] years like how do they not get shut down there's no way there's no way I just want to point out wrong that that Jesse's view on teases is very similar to my view on twists in video games it's like oh my God I keep doing it and I stop caring sure sure y zek's never going to let this go he's never going to let it go yeah yeah this is this is our life now it's our it's our thing uh yeah so we will see with uh with with GTA 6 uh here in about a month um see what happens um that's right Zeke that's right it's a spiral uh it's it's not a um what else should we I mean we can I I mentioned the golden joysticks that then kind of degraded them by saying the actual game awards here's why I say that I think if you look at like uh if you look at where like Hollywood does like the Oscars right the Oscars are generally the the the the go they're they're the top of the top when it comes to Awards right the game awards holds that spot I think within uh the gaming Sphere for most people especially people outside of the gaming they're the Oscars of gaming however the issue with the golden joysticks is we got to get there's got to be like some we got to start standardizing these awards did y'all look at the nominations and like what games were in some points but other games were not at some points because of how when they released so they were up for like critic votes but they weren't up for uh fan vote stuff because of when they were released like Allan Wake 2 was in was not in a lot of categories Spider-Man 2 was not in the best PlayStation game even though that was the best PlayStation game uh it was a very I I can pull up all the different nominations but it was a very weird when you brought it up earlier I actually wrote this down I actually wrote down the golden joystick equals Golden Gloves it's like there's another award show that a lot of people watch but it's not the main one I guess if I had to like think of a compare I guess I'm okay with that yeah like what else what is on like uh what's if if the next rain below the game awards is an award show within the gaming sphere I guess it's the golden joysticks there's also the baftas B is pretty big but it's very British specific yeah yeah um I em and ton it's tough because the game awards for being an award show is so completely not about the awards totally yeah people tune in to see trailers see new things they're not watching a show yeah yeah which is why it stands above all the others CU people are tuning in for what it provides not you know like most of the people watching the award show aren't there because they want to see who won a thing they're there because like what's gonna oh what's next what's the next thing going to reveal and um well they know that because half the awards are awarded off the [ __ ] camera they're like and here's the rattle off list of five awards that we gave out and they do that at the Oscars as well but yeah yeah I I agree with you that they need to the Oscars they aren't dropping trailers for like the next hot movie you know what I mean like the game awards is a different beast but I think it's smart because it Taps into what people actually care about it's hard to get people to be like I'm so excited that John Smith one best digital edit like it's like real hard for people just like your average Joe to care about what goes on on in the Game Dev World um you say that but the Fallout after the game awards this year on the Internet is going to be like that's because it was a big year and there's a lot of people have opinions on all the games that came out like a lot it's like we'll do it on this [ __ ] show we'll we'll do it in the moment we'll co-stream that be like I didn't [ __ ] deserve that award what the [ __ ] can time f um sure so I think like I agree with you but also I I guess I slightly disagree with you in terms of people don't care about the awards people didn't care about the awards and now they do because of where the game awards is at I would say like Jeff has actually been successful in creating reverence uh if I think that's the right word around the actual game awards do you think sgf helped that or like do you think it's kind of it's kind of a sister thing to that though in terms like the Pomp and the circumstance so SF is to the game awards yeah yeah yeah like they're kind of they're kind of synergistic so I I mean do you really think it's the awards themselves or do you think it's just more the like again the show around it do you think it could happen without the awards and still just be a big show like an E3 style I don't know if it's there 100 I don't I don't think it's there yet but I do think people care about the awards more so than they did when it started on Spike 10 years ago and th those things were I kind of see the go I I see it kind of like the MTV Awards back in the day if you remember those were like the the the game awards is like the big oh do they oh wow the big public facing this is for you guys kind of thing here's a bunch of new music videos or in this case game things where the golden joysticks are a little bit more like granted they are still popular but it's a little more industry I'd say like a little bit more like but then that comes back to your point about how the the categories are weird but I don't know it just seem different in scale I think is what it is at the end of the day it's just a lot of scale differentials yeah like um the golden this is what I'll say about the golden joysticks they're fine award in fact I love them specifically because I have one here's the thing though the one I have is I do the one I have is for upcoming YouTuber 2016 at that point I've been doing YouTube for six years so like just you know it says everything you need to know about like what they choose and how they choose things yeah like that's very much says what's going on in 2016 though I I feel I didn't deserve to be in that category yet I was and won now I'm not gonna say no to the award but like I didn't deserve to be there why was I there yeah right and it's same thing with you know when you look at uh Mortal Kombat being in best multiplayer yeah Mortal Kombat won best Multiplayer against even stre fter diao Remnant 2 a game called we were here Expedition the Friendship EXO Primal was also another nominated game the fact that Street Fighter 6 lost to Mortal Kombat is all it's like just it's my soul it's crushing me yeah no that that was a weird one did I unaware was I the one who picked it because I would have been like I don't know any of these games I give it to Mortal Kombat I don't know if you've seen the end of the Mortal Kombat one story I know it's not multiplayer but that was an incredible experience it's pretty [ __ ] Story one is super fun the story is [ __ ] yeah yeah the story one's great but like best multiplayer you're out of your mind I don't know about that a little weird yeah um we can we can kind of go through these real quick uh Studio of the the year laryan one best visual here's one that I don't necessarily agree with best visual design was balers Gate 3 see the thing is though it's kind of like a lot of our categories that can mean a lot of things visual design doesn't necessarily have to mean like the best graphics but even if we're going by art style or like art theme I like I don't think balers balers great 3 doesn't look bad I wasn't upset with anything it did but like high-fi Rush oozes [ __ ] style out its [ __ ] sure even even Street Fighter 6 even though Street Fighter 6 isn't like a beautiful game the way the design of it the street art the like spray paint like it's just visually they did a lot of fun things and yeah yeah balers Gate's great and I have no problem that at won but it just seems like a weird category best visual design as like like what does that mean it's so vague yeah it can mean anything and we just spent 90 minutes talking about Allen wake 2 which I think would it's not on there Alan W 2 is one of the prettiest games I've ever seen totally yeah that is more deserving uh than most of these I would say um game expansion a phantom Liberty won that um against I agree with that though I think that's spot on yeah yeah yeah Phantom Liberty is is totally deserved 100% uh indie game was oh yeah if I was in the game but like you guys like [ __ ] yeah look at look at these shills over here look at these shills I know where my breath we W in the expansion come on these [ __ ] chills uh best indie game a long big conversation around Dave the diver I think being within uh this list yeah um that's a toughy man that's a toughy yeah yeah stars is an incredible game it's an amazing RPG but like Dave the diver captured the hearts of the world like I mean like you can't 100% here's the thing here's the thing Dave the diver is absolutely amazing the issue is that Nexon is a giant AAA company that loves their money and they created the studio that made in 2019 called mint rocket specifically for stuff like this so a lot of people are I'm in Dave the diver and I'm looking at this and being like I don't know man like that's that's it's it's not really it doesn't really make sense if we start normalizing that kind of behavior like that's a that could be a slippery slope you know yeah yeah so I don't know it's a little it's a little strange talked about best multiplayer best audio Final Fantasy 161 um I again Alan wake's not in there but I'll give it to 16 but like you know I'm just saying yeah I mean me me and Jesse are soen Fanboy I think all of us actually are probably soen Fanboys um oh love them yeah absolutely so it's it is what it is best game trailer is a really weird award um especially that Allen wake 2 is in this alen wake 2 the darkplace Gameplay trailer I whole thing The Legend of Zelda tears of the Kingdom official trailer number three baby steps reveal though baby steps reveal probably should have won that however the official cinematic trailer for Phantom Liberty was also very good looking with Elba in it um that it's all the whole thing's weird yeah Dave the diver official release month and accolades trailer I don't think we should have an award for best trailers and I do a show called Trailer time I don't think we should have a [ __ ] award show best game looking at this list is is like all right we got five but we need a sixth yeah what are we gonna do like just what what was the last one you watched you said it was kind of funny that put that one on the list yeah baby something strange uh best game Community uh balers Gate 3 ended up taking that uh sure like like I be sex brings a lot of people together man it you well be sex and vampires you're welcome world people like be sex and vampires it's weird are you ever going to tell us what you meant by that tweet what was that you remember that Jesse like after that happened either you tweeted or said something where you were like oh I was I was go watch the video the guy shouting the loudest to have them have bare sex is very clearly me and then the rest of the video I'm maniacally laughing cuz they got like booted off of Tik Tok for showing it like I was so pleased with myself I was so happy look Jesse look I'll say it for you you're responsible for bg3 success and deserve some of these awards that they won right honestly I'm not say again I'm not saying I'm a PR specialist we can contact finin for you if you want to get he's having trouble carrying all those awards for for the for the love of his lower back he probably should you know upad message him yeah yeah that's great he's a friend of the show plenty of dinners with that man he is a solid dude yeah yeah yeah oh I will say though that again Community is a weird thing like fandom is what I'd say balers Gate 3 is it has a huge amazing fandom Community is a strange word again like I don't associate fandoms with communities communities are like Final Fantasy 4 like an MMO Community like a wow thing I don't know it's weird again it all depends on what you define as it because like if you go to the bers gate 3 Reddit it's it's a hugely active hugely positive awesome Reddit tons of fan art tons of Fan Music like there is a there is a giant Community behind bter Skate 3 so it you know it's not necessarily They're all playing together but there is certainly a a group of people that love and and so I don't yeah I guess it's what it's it's all terminology you know what I mean like to me I'm like oh that's just a really inspired and passionate fandom like something about the word Community I'm just like what is the difference between a fandom and a community I I think 50% of that vote was was uh really vocal and active aerian fanfic SL fake writers oh 100% yeah I think that's very accurate without question yeah it who was I I was listening to to some some like news like an actual news program in the car while I was driving to the office the other day and they like people who were like 65 made a joke about like you know I was I was GNA get worked on this weekend but instead I was trying to romance a a vampire in the game called balers gate three and I was like bro what yeah it's it's huge it's a huge game nice but I I I do want to like I saw that list and then I saw dreams on there and I was like that is awesome that they actually got on there because that is a community who makes [ __ ] like everybody else plays the [ __ ] that's the only one where the community makes everything you know they have a platform to make it on but that Community like makes and shares their stuff and I love that I wish it would have won but I mean it's it's ALS like it just you guys have said it before it comes down to like it's a different facet of community yeah it's like how do you Define exactly like Co was saying how do you define Community fandom whatever yeah like a lot of people in my chat were like it's a fandom not a community and then somebody asked them and they're like I don't know there you go that's a perfect example uh yeah it's tough it's tough yeah uh best VR game Horizon call the mountain one I don't think anyone the five people that play VR games were like yeah we like Horizon back to this one was weird to me best gaming Hardware psvr 21 it was up against the Turtle Beach Stealth Pro headset the Alienware 34 aw 342 call this sponsor category the Nitro deck the Asus Rog strict scope 296 or the Samsung 990 Pro now I personally compare that stuff to each other you can if you know what it is category of product I would say the alien wear monitor should win however the psvr2 won but yeah this is a weird category also like with the steam deck came out was that not this year I guess that was last yearh so it's not in there I don't know there's also a hard drive here the Samsung 990 Pro that's an SSD sett settle something for me guys ridiculous better ball base or foot tough question I know that's what feels like oh a dark horse candidate coming in basket's pretty good botch if you will I'm not talking about the sport I'm talking about the actual ball that the sport is played with which is better tennis is also pretty good tennis has a lot of bowling yeah good job Chad I prefer pin that's also pretty you can't compare those they're not the same oh I get it ah very weird award there uh breakthrough award no nominations cocoon just won sure I guess because there's so many like do that yeah critic's Choice Award Allan Wake 2 is what won that and so this is where it gets down to like the critics vote happened at a point where Allan Wake 2 was already out but the fan vote happened where Allen wake 2 was not out so fans couldn't vote for alen Wake 2 which is what I was saying we need some sort of like weird the Oscars usually is like the ones that create the range for the movies that are going to be in award season we need I guess Jeff or someone to like the academy as it were to create the Range Gaming Academy the range for which things are voted upon now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it a year of films happen and then the start of the next year they have award shows yeah most award shows I think are in February so it's like we already know what the year was there is no they released the game in November and like we you know they don't do that which I think is why the game awards is in December because it's at least at that point they tried to do it at the very huge games are coming out yeah but like games start coming out they couldn't do it in January because games start coming out J could it would be the award show would be for the previous year yeah yeah but the other thing too Chad Chad is Right game of war is a marketing event for the most part oh and so they're trying to sell they're trying to sell things for the holiday season and that's probably a big pitch that Jeff uses to get some of these trailers into the show surprised is f i mean that's why we do our [ __ ] dumb little show at the in January yeah that's why we do in January because we do it for the entire year previous you know yeah yeah so because we're not trying to sell [ __ ] yeah yeah uh critic Choice Award was alen wake 2 best streight streaming game was valerent sure uh best lead performer uh Ben real quick just real quick what they streaming game I think it was just number stream for streamers like had the biggest tournaments that kind of thing yeah I don't know what I I think that one was more more metrics related which I I saw this uh the St and it's not because my wife works on the team that was looking at this information but I saw the stat on Tik Tok had 99.5 billion views use for the valerin hashtag when I looked at it the other day whoa and that's incredible that's a bit that's a lot of [ __ ] view that's a bit that's like a staggering about I didn't even know that something was viewed that much but there you go I guess that's it that's a thing and I don't even know if that's the most viewed uh on Tik Tok it's probably not by any stretch it's probably like Taylor Swift or some [ __ ] you haven't even seen cat videos yeah or cat Taylor Swift might be Taylor Swift cat videos might be the biggest thing you never know it's the next big thing right there yeah yeah anyways uh best lead performer Ben Star as Clive rosfield Final Fantasy 16 not only hugely deserved and awesome but I'm I am going to give them a quick little shout out give Star out okay if you Google natural 6 Kickstarter right now there is a Kickstarter that closes in the next couple days it's got like a handful of hours left and it is a big new critical roll Style live D and D show Ben star Doug cockle voice of The Witcher Holly Bennett they've got a great D and person as well they've got other they've got uh um Alex Jordan who's Mr hands in the cyberpunk expansion tons of top talent and they've already passed their goal and now they're working on stretch goals and if you like that kind of stuff you should definitely definitely definitely check that Kickstarter out there's lots of fun stuff so the reason I'm saying this is because it closes in like two days it's a all-star cast so uh they are at they had a goal of 61,000 1114 I think that was converted from Euros or something um yeah it was 50,000 is what they were at uh and they're currently at 69,000 very nice yeah uh they have a bunch of stretch goals I think the next one is uh 70k so they're oh can we get a link yeah give me one uh yeah it was posted in my I can send it to you in Discord if I could I'll just Google it and put it on there since these people apparently don't know how to do that that's fine I'll do it for you that's cool that's cool let me Google that for you speaking of the voice of The Witcher uh the new animated show that's coming to Netflix he is doing the voice for that so yes oh awesome there you go yeah so awesome it's very good yeah um geralt's back baby Allan Wake 2 did have uh Allan Wake uh The Voice act the voice actor for Alan Wake as well as Saga Anderson uh in here um they had both Spider-Man's Yuri and na Naji I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly who played miles um and then the did either of you play Deliver Us Mars I want to say C did yeah they they had uh Elise Chapel who played Kathy Jo Johansson uh in that so and funny side thing the guy that directed that and played a lead was Neil newal who won the Best Supporting performer yeah that's the next wordom uh first got like a whole like he is like the motion capture King of England I'm convinced of this too as well he's he has become a Powerhouse so Linked UP yeah he's awesome he's very cool yep great guy now uh we we had a discussion in Best Supporting uh performer uh Amilia Ty Tyler was in here for uh the narrator of bg3 as well Asal that's a tough one man yeah Ralph andison who was sadus Sid from Final Fantasy 16 that's amazing as well like pretty stacked Best Supporting is very stacked yeah yeah um I mean surprised there was not a single B person in lead yeah I guess how do you I mean if anything I guess a would be le yep I think Amelia should have been in best lead performer I think that was a a mistake yeah yeah I was just gonna say that y if if the definition is like the game would not exist without this person speaking then yeah that's a she would be what she had she had an obscene amount of lines in every single mpes crazy man yeah it's crazy how much is of hers inflection and the change of playing Dark urge and the way she like switches up on you is so good yeah I can't wait to do that run yeah she's talented yeah yeah you owe me one right or not I mean I owe you what who owes you 100 month game that's that's Co changed it to oh dark urge Co-op oh okay gotcha gotcha gotcha gotcha uh Nintendo Game of the Year Legend of Zelda tears of the Kingdom weird that's a weird category we start get the weird ones where it's like very specific Game of the Year PC game of the year bg3 one PlayStation game of the year Spider-Man 2 is not even nominated which is strange Resident Evil 41 which is to Res Evil 4 I I disagree with I strongly disagree with that just remakes in like maybe best remake you could do but like giving it to the best game on Playstation all of these are aren't all of these games except for Humanity multiplatform so how's a PlayStation game of the year 16 will sometimes you need to stop asking questions okay sometimes saying we need the game Academy to [ __ ] figure this [ __ ] ff6 also I can't put my finger on it but I think they're like that the category seems to be missing a game yeah the SP SP man 2o it's not there the mans of spoter uh this Xbox game of the year Starfield I I guess sure highi Rush is maybe sure also dead space nice that chance of SAR got a little bit of a shout out at least yeah yeah I love how pent was on there just wanted to like throw a game on there yeah I got to put it somewhere let's let's give Josh a shout out because that game's actually pretty great I like that such a weird like these categories are strange that's what I say it's very weird uh Most Wanted game let's get even weirder uh because some of these like Silk song is that even coming out I guess Most Wanted doesn't dictate that it is next year but sure fabled Star Wars Outlaws d stranding 2 Suicide Squad kill the Justice League Persona 3 Rel Lo Metal Gear Solid Delta Stater Arc 2 Frost Punk 2 just a weird list uh just an absolutely weird list it's like they went to like uh some website and we're like what games come out in 2024 I know ex they just went to Google and did like games out 202 yeah c yeah uh and then the uh the final uh award that was given out uh Ultimate Game of the Year which bg3 ended up taking uh potentially being a uh a precursor to it winning uh all the Awards come award season I guess we're in award season now um which I I thought it was going to be a I thought there would be more conflict in bg3 winning but seeing this and seeing the discussion around it I think it's a shoe in for like winning the whole shabash at the the game awards if that is the big lot of it I think bg3 is probably going to take that yeah like it's it's it has the same Vibe as when return to the the King won all those Awards yeah there were a lot of amazing movies that year but it was so big that you just have to accept that it's going to win like it's going to win a lot of Awards just because of how massive a game it is how massive the fandom is how massive like it is in the cultural ethos it's that big yeah so you just have to accept it it's gonna it's G to walk away with a ton of Awards this year yeah these uh these were in order by the way so Allen wake was five uh Jedi Survivor was four Spider-Man 2 was three tears of the kingdom was two and balers gate was one the rest of them I don't think are in order I just know those top five were that's how they they're in order of vote gets yeah that that's how they revealed that was and number five yeah it's kind of strange but um am I I Lords of the falls on there but lies of p is not yeah that my chat said the same thing that's a little weird [ __ ] up lies deserves to be on their 10x more than Lords of the Fallen I'm sorry Lords of the Fallen uh but that's hey I loved Lords of the Fallen but lies of P was something special man yeah yeah there's if if anyone's curious as to why like Zelda or like I love Allen W 2 I think it's a phenomenal game one of my favorite it's just continues to be amazing for me but I have put at least 200 hours into balers Gate 3 across multiple campaigns I've still not beating that game I'm just enjoying playing it is yeah it's so next level that it's just going to win you just have to accept it it's just someone someone in my chat uh let it happen it it solidified like for the longest time I was I think I've said on my stream like yeah it's probably going to be between Zelda and bg3 just because Zelda's Zelda Zelda within like mainstream culture it's known it's it's Zelda right like they're making a [ __ ] movie that was news we haven't gotten to yet they announced they're making a a full liveaction film around it that's how big it is but balers Gate 3 got Call of Duty Bros playing a crpg in 2023 if there's not a like bigger example of how impactful that game was on the entire video gaming scene it's that and and it's not just playing it like [ __ ] posting thirst traps over aaran on and also will someone please think of the bear sex yeah yeah big this year Beast was huge apparently I'm not gonna spoil anything but if you dark every year JP if you play Dark urge and you as a goof I decided to be like I'm gonna reject every time this game wants me to be evil what could possibly happen the payoff might be the greatest thing I've ever seen in a video game do and I was so shocked that they planned for it they clearly had some sort of like we know someone's going to do this and we're gonna make a whole brilliant brilliant yeah so it's an impressive game also wild that between me Zeke and Co we have like five 600 hours of Total game time we haven't even started a dark urge playthrough like that's it's just there's it's so much it was the first thing I did I was like so dark urge Paladin I'm going be the goodest boy I chose every nice choice and I was Jessie Jessie good right yeah Jesse the good yeah they when I was at the event so was like look if you play Dark urge and you reject it we made it so the game would like challenge you and I was like I'm gonna test this dude I'm gonna test this and he's like go ahead man was right man I was so pleased I was like they thought of this though so you did a full good dark urge playthrough but you you did no safe scumming right so you you did bad things because you failed rolls I'm assuming oh I mean like it the so the way it works is if you say I don't want to kill these people or I don't want to do this the game gets progressively more like roll of 30 [ __ ] yeah like it gets way harder to do stuff but the payoff for succeeding is so good in a way that so unexpected when you say succeeding did you save scum the roles to always win or did you like let the bad did you did you when you lost a role did you let it play out I guarantee at one point I definitely saved some something thing but most of the time it was like let it ride baby let's see what happens um and there's a very cool moment that I'm sure it got clipped somewhere where it's just like I have I have no way to to like change this let's just see what happens and it's just beautiful it's really well done but of course I'm me so I definitely save scum sometimes for things because I want to see like I would do the bad version and then I'd go back and try be like I want to know what's going to happen like what what are the options here I love seeing so definitely save some stuff yeah you've got me very conflicted because my big plan for my dark urge play through was just to lean into it completely and now I'm like wait a second so I made a second character that I just called Jesse the evil exact same build exact same character and I just made all the other choices it's equally me like what they're both messed up in their own totally different messed up ways yeah I've I've heard some of the the Leaning into it is just wild so yeah yeah what a game uh I'm sure we'll be talking about that uh come December 7th then come our Game of the Year Awards uh which we don't have a guest next week uh this is a great time to remind everyone because you guys can remind us next week you guys being chat uh me Zeke and Co we got to figure out our our categories so we can get our uh Community polls out there I think we should have I think we should start with best trailer funniest trailer best action trailer best comedy trailering trailer someone who watches Traer of trailers I watch about 50 Trail no that's a little bit I watch about 25 trailers a week I'm down I'm on board PlayStation trailer best Xbox best still pushing for best button on the keyboard best balers Gate 3 trailer the cat I'm I got it I'm on board great do uh we I mentioned in passing the uh the Zelda liveaction film was announced from Nintendo I think I'm I'm going to Riot we don't uh they did not name any uh any casting yet but they're working with Sony and uh in tandem with this and I think avor Rod I hope I pronounce that correctly is also working with them he's responsible for producing the first Iron Man film uh among other films which are maybe not as uh beloved I would say as that so we'll see what it's going to look like a lot of people were upset they wanted an animated um film after I think the the Mario but like it's a weird thing somebody just said this in chat and now I can't unsee it they just should just make Jared Le link and make him look as young as possible I was thinking they're going to ride the wave of like popularity and have like Timothy shal's link Ganon yeah I think Timothy shalam would actually make an okay link yeah yeah he's not you know what sucks about the Jared letto is now I'm like well Margot Robbie's obviously Zelda like that that sucks like that's in my head now oh man the seed is there Jack Black is Tingle I just hope we see tingle I want to see that's one would be kind of fun I'll be honest Jack Black as tingle would be fun yeah um yeah I I don't I want to see Jim Carrey as Ganondorf I I just I I just don't know what that film like what a liveaction Zelda is not something I ever imagined would be a thing but that is like where Hollywood is at now is is taking video games and turning them into TV Andor film so I guess we're here I I don't Envision it I I don't know I don't think it could ever be good but prove me wrong if they take it seriously and but also do like a good amount of fan service like they did with Dungeons and dragon like I think I think it could be all right you know yeah the smart the smart thing to do is could be weird with a voice yeah that's the thing is like he doesn't [ __ ] talk like maybe he won't talk maybe what if they actually what if they bring in like a big actor and he doesn't say a freaking word that'd be amazing that'd be so good that actually be that' actually be kind of awesome like the thing the thing they need to do is the thing that video games screw up like video game movies screw up all the time which is don't retell a story from a game tell a new story don't do that yeah don't try to like summarize a 20 hour game in a two-hour movie don't do it Hollywood it's gonna suck if you do cut it out it's its own story that's all we need yeah yeah I I don't know what to expect from it to be honest well if they if they deliver something on like the level of Super Mario Brothers film that recently came out then I'll be happy but I that's it's it's one thing to put Chris Pratt to voice Mario because you can be like yeah it's animated it's fine whoever they cast in that role is is like I worry for them because like video game fandom is [ __ ] really crazy uh more so than like movie fandom so I just hope that they're ready for their career career to either be like killed or be the second coming of Christ no I mean JP no matter what one or the other option that's going to hate them no matter what you think they're just immediately they're hated well then who takes that as an actor an unknown no know well I mean Chris Pat's a great example when you first heard Chris Pratt the internet was like trash and the movie came out and made a ton of money it was fun yeah right it's the same thing with uh he Ledger as as the Joker like just when it seems like it's weird you the internet just like I am so mad and then it happens and people like well that wasn't too bad I actually kind of like that yeah it's going to happen yeah I don't know my my favorite comment from the whole thing uh and I said this already on my stream someone commented on my tweet uh was that uh someone said I really hope the woke mind virus doesn't make them cast Zelda as a guy or wait Zelda as a girl that was the counter troll it was like a a complete I was like that's brilliant that's the that's the most brilliant thing to troll all sides of the internet Y and a single statement it was beautiful it was beautiful anyways Zelda casting would be interesting I think Zelda's probably more important than link do you think I'll be honest with you my my least favorite thing in uh the because I I just recently watched the Super Mario movie and it was great it was good yeah uh but I think the weakest link was um uh Queen's Gambit what's her name Joy Taylor Joy there you go I thought she was the weakest link in the movie she did fine but I don't know why like she was chosen for that but in the liveaction Zelda I think she'd be great as Zelda damn it chat Owen Wilson is Zelda it's just wow I'd love that I think no I I was you know what I was about to say is link but no now I'm thinking of it as Zelda he he should be Zelda just put a like he's got a wig put him in a dress let's do it 100% yep I love it we'll see we'll see what happens I didn't realize I said weakest link oh my God it's fine it happens uh hey let's talk about AI everyone's favorite topic uh Xbox has partnered with a company called inworld AI what a ton deaf tweet the timing on that is just it's it's remarkable yeah speaking of the game awards uh oh my god dude I'm not sure what the Tweet is that you're referencing I've got the press release up what did the Tweet say announ I mean no I mean that's it's just you know after like one of the largest years of layoffs like it's it's I don't know it just seemed like talking about I'm talking about just the announcement in general a lot of it centered around the Tweet but like while the SAG after things are going on about Ai and all this stuff and there's all these problems and jobs getting lost everywhere and they're like yeah so we're going to start doing you know and they even say in the tweet I think it's like for the purposes of AI dialogue they actually like Ping something that people normally do not like a we're going to facilitate people in making this like we are going to use this to make the thing people normally do make yeah and it's just kind of like man just not read the room y'all like and then again the game awards posted about it with no context just like almost a retweet like that's also toned deaf you're supposed to be like honoring game devs and the artists who make game and you're like next year we will interview aiot 6947 uh like it's just it's very strange um and again like you know like Co was saying the idea of a year when games made some of the most money they've ever made yet laid off the most people they've ever laid off is one of the best games one of the best years for games one of the worst years for game devs yep I think uh video game layoffs I think they crossed over 6,300 uh folks so far there's another was it 100 from Ubisoft on Monday um that were let go I want to say um in amount I should say maybe not 100 I don't know the exact number but yeah and there's like here's the thing there's so many ways to use AI effectively but not to just like like they jobs of like you're making a script you're you have actors like there are ways to use it to minimize the more labor ensive things of like programming or like there's ways to do it that AR just like yeah exactly but that's not what they're using it for they're like what if instead it wrote out all the characters dialogue like what why would you choose that the big the big thing about AI is is AI is you know there's a lot of new texts coming out and there's a lot of misinformation about those Technologies and I feel like as especially when Technologies are are you know very new blockchain web 3 all that stuff it's not only the technology but it's how you publicly interface with the technology AI can be used to make game development as a whole a wildly more interesting Innovative and awesome thing it can make small Indie Dev teams you know when they use AI you know to help facilitate their their their game creation it can make it go faster they make more things like it's great it could be awesome it could also be horrible so it's like you have to really be especially if you're a company going off the fact that you're using it you really have to be cognitive about like how it looks what are the Optics like there's so many different ways they could have made this announcement and there's ways they could have made it that didn't feel ton deaf and it's so unfortunate that that like they chose to go this kind of like axe instead of a scalpel way um that kind of you know it's it's AI is is the future it's going to be and it could be amazing when it start gets implemented properly um you know it's not something to be scared of but again it is something to be like you have to really be careful with this stuff as when you're talking about it y yep I'm I'm just like going to say this just to say it um AI is being used as a tool to save companies money and I'm just saying most Executives make the majority of the amount of money in a company and I feel like an AI could easily take their job you'd save a ton of cash they're not really making any decisions except for how do we make shareholders more money like an AI could do that I'm just putting it out there just put it out in the you could replace them and then you save some cash you'd save millions of dollars just that's just me and the only people that would have issue with that would be the the executives no one else would be like now we shouldn't have ai as a head of a company I promise you you could replace Bobby Kodak with an AI and it would be the roughly the exact same equivalent of quality I'm convinced of this you know funny enough the C the coldness of the decisions too would be an easier pill for people to swallow they're like our robot did that it wasn't a person it was our [ __ ] robot be mad at the robot yeah it's just making the best decisions for us as a company and it's not a person so yeah there you go they're using algorithms anyway to make their terrible choices just have a AI do it yeah it's all it's all numbers yeah at the end of the day ultimately yeah so you guys 100% this this thing was just kind of toned it was the whole thing was just uh met with a [ __ ] ton of dismay within the uh the gaming industry from kind of all sides from developers fans creators like ourselves it it was not uh I don't know what they thought this how how they thought this would go ultimately uh and if and if they thought it was going to be like something that would be celebrated um I want to see those numbers right show me that algorithm that kind of showed uh that showed them that to lead with that I do remember on uh on the show though when I brought up a while back there was a uh was it a Chinese company that was using AI to do MMO Quest text uh is one of their things and that's exactly what this is I think at the end of the day um is is kind of along the same lines so it got here faster than I thought I thought we were a couple years out but no we're we're here we'll see what I guess Xbox does with it the dangerous thing to remember is that qu oh I'm sorry people in chat are getting very confused he's not talking about reading out Quest text like in World of Warcraft he's talking about generating Quest text yeah creating the quest on the Fly via AI yeah yeah yes like no matter what you do with AI it's someone's always inputting something so be it Quest text it's taking stuff from writers and expounding upon it if it's voices someone needed to lend their voice to the AI so the AI could create like there's a starting point and it's those people who are getting screwed over because once they have your voice like that's one of the big sag after things like once your voice is being used do you own your own voice anymore like those are big issues yeah it's a it's a scary thing for sure um what else not really a shocker um the Epic verse apple trial uh has suggested that uh the Epic that epic was hoping to claim half of all PC Gaming revenue via the Epic gam store uh and the other little tidbit of news that came alongside that is that the epic game store still isn't profitable uh it is not it is not we're gonna we're going to we're going to check the box did not quite meet expectations quite uh meet those expectations just a little off there yeah yeah so you know I don't know like how they how do you look I don't know how you look at that and think like guys we could do this we could take over half of the market by putting out this store I don't even know if steam is half the market I don't I don't know like how much of the market it is but when you compare the two steam is [ __ ] stupidly huge and it's not even half the market so just a weird thing coming out of there um is is it fortnite that's just propping up the whole thing I think it was their engine is also a big part of it yeah yeah unreal does yes unreal is a master or a massive thing within the industry especially after the unity debacle yeah yeah and it's it's poised to even be bigger right with u5 if if everyone is jumping over to that um I mentioned steam the steam deck OLED was announced this past week um a minor upgrade still an upgrade though uh in all of that people have uh already had their their hands on it and kind of broken into it and seen all the the different changes on it um I is I think most of us Jesse do you have a steam deck I know the rest of us do I think I'm not a big like when I leave the office I I do not game yeah I spend so much time here working and gaming and doing stuff that the minute I leave I try to do anything but yeah uh that's just old man Jesse getting away from like I got to have a me time moment I'm like I don't want to look at game I don't want to talk about games I don't want to do games when I leave yeah yeah that's smart uh for for zek and Co hold on a second when you're in the office you talk like normal but when you're out of the are you actually like from Brook this is how I talk when I leave the this is how I when I went to the panel you did talk like that you're right I just I forgot the minute I leave he say what's with this old guy playing video games what's going on here yeah that's pretty much the whole that was the whole panel I'm pretty sure I'm gaming here hey uh zik Co you guys going to get a new steam deck is it is it enticed you enough I don't use mine enough yeah I only use mine when I travel and I travel like you know a couple times a year at most so yeah yeah Zeke for you any interest no okay no yeah I no one I got is fine I'll wait till the the steam de to whenever that gets out they they mentioned it exactly I'll wait until it's stronger like when it when it when it gets a little beefier then that's probably when I'll look into it yeah but not just for the screen uh I I think Gabe was asked about that and they said that like the tech does not exist yet for a steam deck 2 to exist so we're going to be that's fair waiting for ra rather wait for a meaningful upgrade yeah yeah that was that trying to see if there's anything else uh we can kind of talk uh Jesse was a great guest to to I think uh discuss about this given his uh his history with the uh the company slth game Jesse what do you think about this WOW Resurgence that's happening right now like this uh where where were you on what are your thoughts on all this okay uh welcome to every post BlizzCon yeah is this bcon it happens every BlizzCon there's like a big bump in people's excitement for a wow but wow it's a meme that's going around right now and I think it's absolutely true I don't know how many of you have seen Ahsoka as a show but there's a scene where I believe way Ray Winstone I think is his name where he's like I like the idea of it but not you know not the weakness not what it is that's why oh yeah Everyone likes the idea of what Warcraft is and they remember the good times and all stuff but I promise you most people when they go back to it will be like yeah I got out I don't know if I can put time into it again like I don't know if I can do that I will say the one thing that interests me is the um new season of Discovery for Warcraft classic which is like okay it's only up to level 25 so it's not a huge time commitment and we're going to get weird with it like a tanky warlock or like a healing M they're gonna like do weird things that could be fun to check out like that has me interested and everything else I'm just like yo I got out I spent 15 years playing wow and I played it all the time yeah you were I physically can't go back I'm like I can't go back I can't do it yeah is uh is is the wow classic cataclysm announcement uh your your old name makes no sense to me I don't get it cataclysm is when the they literally revamped the world and it was no longer classic so for them to be like it's classic cataclysm that's just like it's old Warcraft it's not classic anymore it makes no sense to me but like I'm not playing it so what the hell do I care right right like you enjoy it go have fun like I'm not going to tell you what to do the the final question I have for you is did I don't think it did from the sound of of what you said thus far but did you watch uh like Metson Metson thing his his Moment On Stage how did you feel about the medson moment Metson if you watch the entire opening ceremony yeah all it did was prove that there was not a single person at blizzard with the Charis of medson yep everyone that stood up there was not even a eighth of how excited he was to be there like and the fact that they haven't had him for years to present things just shows you how much they're missing out that man came out and you knew like okay here we go he could have said anything and people would have been hyped but he actually dropped some cool stuff and it's like okay all right I don't know that I'll go back and play it but I'm interested in what it is I would love to know more but like I don't know my soul can hands still not the big enough three expansions of wow still not big enough pull for you even even with the sword being mentioned the the camp blew my mind I was so happy but also like again the reason why I enjoy Final Fantasy 14 at the moment is because I can walk away like that game does not require me to do a ton of I can leave yeah and I know that right now there's like some uproar in the Final Fantasy 14 Community about being like there's nothing to do right now I'm totally fine with that I in fact that's why I like it cuz I have to feel like I need to do stuff wow always made me feel like I have to be playing yeah and that's sort of like the blizzard thing blizzard once you always playing their games I just at some point I was like I I can't do this any I can't do this anymore I gotta walk away so you know I I'm awesome excited for all my friends who still play WoW and everyone who's going to get to experience that story and I'll definitely be on the periphery like oo that's neat but I don't know that I have the emotional bandwidth to be like all right I'm in for another three expansions see what happens to the no I don't know that I can okay all right we'll have to I guess we'll see when that comes out whenever that is I I think is the first expansion next year didn't they yes next summer I forget what the maybe next fall I think it's supposed to be at the yeah in the fall of next year okay that's what it was and then it's supposed to be the release of them real quick and it's supposed to be a three Arc that wraps up the um all the Loose Ends all the loose threads yeah yeah kind of a weird thing uh I think I'd be up I I would upset the community if I didn't ask Co about uh his first 4A into uh well not first you played in the past for a very short amount of time I I played World of Warcraft on relase uh and had level 4 44 Hunter and at the time I was also really big into Everquest 2 which I then did you know world first rating and stuff and and left while behind and never played it again and I now have my first character in hardcore core World of Warcraft classic after 18 years are you enjoying it did it get you again I am actually loving it I'm having a fantastic time but what's interesting is I'd say that's like a there's there's a chunk of it because it's this fun new world to explore and I'm enjoying it but the thing that's really making me have a good time is that I don't know what it is about the classic Community it's just great everyone's super helpful everyone's nice the power gamers are on on retail and everyone here is just like the the streams have been immaculate just tons of people coming in and being like oh this is so nostalgic I love seeing co- playay in my game answering questions where you know 90% of the people saying stuff in chat are right and actually answering the question I'm asking and I and I'm asking a ton of questions because I have no idea what I'm doing so um you know it's it's great seeing uh it's also pulling together a lot of streamers from all over the map into uh into like this one place which is kind of a rare thing for twitch it's fun kind of hanging out and and you know chilling with all these streamers I don't normally get a chance to because I'm kind of my Lone Wolf self off doing variety stuff so um overall I'm I'm loving it I i' I've somehow not died yet and um you know just enjoying the ride and what level are you now 16 15 16 okay yep so I'm I'm tring along yep like a crazy question for you and I don't know this is true but it feels true is it because it seems like the audience for classic skew older I would not only say that yes absolutely but it's the I feel like the biggest thing is that most games especially ones that are still most MMOs that are live tend to have power gaming competitive communities and I feel like in this very interesting way the classic servers separate that off especially on Hardcore because of how much of a risk it is to raid so there's even less of those super competitive Raiders on the server um it's it's I'm finding it just to be much more people that are just playing to have a good time and just have fun and like every time I get to like every time I get to one of those large areas where there's like a you know a bunch of high you look on the map and I use a death log so it's like blood red because tons of people are dying there there's just people that are there helping keep people alive yeah they're like five levels above the stuff they're just sitting there healing people and making sure everyone's good and stuff and it's just like this is awesome like it's it's a real Community vibe that I think is is really fun it's a very strange thing I I have not streamed it much but I'm I'm playing offline uh around 15 I think or 16 where you're at and uh Jesse you can probably I guess not relate to this and how weird it is walking around if someone has a buff to give you oh dud they just give you a buff you you're running down the road anytime you pass somebody you just see like an icon appear over your head oh thanks and I know it's not because it's not because I'm streaming my name has no relationship to who like that I am a streamer they just buff every because everyone is like trying to [ __ ] survive and it's a weird experience yeah I don't know if you guys played wow in a long time sorry just real quick side note if I haven't played wow in a long time but you honestly like in a in a very like short or small way you just described why I love Burning Man oh is is like have a cheeseburger we made them fresh hey do you like margaritas instead of Buffs they have like and you walk by them like here you go plus three Charisma yeah that's sure I get if if JP or Co did you play on original launch back in like yeah 2004 I did oh that's when I played yeah yeah so like it was very similar vividly remember the things you're talking about like the things you're talking about I I would walk around and like random droids would give me like Druid Buffs yeah and I wouldn't they' like run by Boop buffed and keep going and it it has the same feel and it makes it it does feel very like it makes a difference warm Huggy yeah it feel it feels communal it feels like it actually is the Players vers the world which is really cool like you're all in here like you know making the place better and and it's it's nice it's very nice so I've I've it's a different um I think there's not a lot of MMOs that can pull off something like this I feel in a lot of ways so it's I I feel like for me personally this is like one of the best possible times I could have returned also I've never played an MMO with hardcore it's a different feel it's a different feel like having to to really be paying attention the whole time and and really judge your risks and kind of you know oh should I do this Mission n this looks pretty hard let me check the death map okay I'm not going to do that like it's it's a very different way to play as somebody pretty much an efficient Auto dying in video games so for me it's a nice you know a little more entertaining change of pace y it it definitely changes things uh in that regard which is cool um but yeah 100% like I thought about it a lot Co and and uh then we need to end cuz Co or Zeke's got a show to go to but I thought a lot about it because God was it two years ago when Final Fantasy blew up uh yeah like Final Fantasy blew up but the sense of community did not exist amongst it blowing up on Twitch like f fantasy has a good Community but it blowing up among streamers didn't bring the streamers together wow hardcore classic blowing up has actually like brought so many different streamers together and it's a the reason why the reason why and I I I've made so many videos on this but the reason why is that old vanilla wow literally was not about a story yeah you played it because you were exploring a world you had friends Who You'd play with and you'd be like what's around this corner what's over there half the game had no story at all like if you were in sort of like the Eastern kingdoms half those zones had nothing but enemies and it was about the experience of playing with friends so I can very much understand why people get together because War uh Final Fantasy 14 the reason why people watched streamers is because they want to see what they would say to the story yeah it wasn't like I wonder what they're G do with their friends half the time you can't be with your friend it was about the story W Final Fantasy is the or Final Fantasy 14 is the best multiplayer single player game ever made yeah accurate yeah I would agree with that absolutely and funny enough it's it's funny you say that uh Jesse because um first of all I will say this playing this game with the AI voice add-on for the quest texts is amazing if you've never seen that you should check it out it's actually like it blew my mind how good it is but um one of my big old school nostalgic MMOs is EverQuest and what the big thing about EverQuest is there is basically no quests funny enough there's basic there's very little story it's like ambient lore so one of the things you do is you just it's it's all about the people versus the game that's what it's all about it's the people vers the game um and and I completely see what you're saying when you're kind of like that's kind of what classic wow is that's what I that's the feeling I'm getting where it's just like you know everyone's kind of just a big a big group instead of a bunch of little solo players and that's awesome yeah it's a weird experience we'll talk more about it next week I am sure maybe even get someone from that uh that microcosm uh on the show so uh we got to wrap up though Zeke quick do some shout outs so you can get out of here what do you got going on we'll do hey everybody thank you for watching my name is Ezekiel 3 you can find mezel on Twitch Twitter and YouTube Ezekiel the third all spell out on Instagram Tik Tok thank you Jesse for joining us I love hearing nerds talk about nerd stuff that they're passionate about and it was just I I love just sitting back and hearing you like nerd out about it even though like we had different opinions it's okay I loved it still so uh thank you for showing up and uh dropping your can knowledge on us uh thank you to Cen JP as always for being awesome co-host uh I have a role playing show up for this if you want to check it out twitch.tv/ testory it's a blade based in the Blade Runner Universe uh if you want to watch me stream uh I'm off on Monday so I'm not going tomorrow but on Tuesday I will be doing the if then drawing winners game choice of beneath the seal sky on CD ROM so if you want to check me out on Tuesday that's what I'll be doing thanks for watching fantastic thank you for being here Zeke have a good rest of your show Jessica hey man you want to talk to me about excuse me sir yeah hey uh first off thank you to the boys here for having me I I must stress this is one of the best shows on Twitch period and uh I'm so thrilled they are still doing it three amazing hosts and I'm always excited to come on and interrupt them at all times uh so yeah hey um do you like do you like video games because I make them and uh I'm going to shamelessly plug for you a demo for our newest one um myself and uh airdorf who is behind the faith series and the amazing torpal and the wonderful Trevor who did our art and mly moon from the old Tik Tok we made a game um called excuse me sir and it is a horror game that is for totally free it's just a demo we want to get feedback it's on the old itch.io uh it should probably be on the front page last time I checked it was like in the top 30 Games there so very pleased with that and um definitely check it out it is a ton of fun and it is you know it operates in that uh weird space of point-and-click horror that feels very retro so give it a shot please try it out and uh I will uh see you guys later fantastic Co do some shout out got a little Yogi there at the end I like it uh uh as always a huge thanks to JP and Zeke and a special shout out to Jesse uh always love having you on the show sir that's awesome by the way quick other shout out I happen to be randomly looking for stuff about you you're working on another game that comes out this year right um hopefully in the next six months fingers crossed yes it's called Galt steon Cinder it is a uh platformer that is very like Metroid Vana e it's awesome it's very cool cool okay awesome just wanted to I made a note to ask you about that I've played that demo there's a demo for it I think yeah we they released a bunch of it's on Steam you can go look it up just Galt Steam and Cinder yeah it's pretty cool cool very cool very cool anyway huge thank you Jesse it was a pleasure talking to you as it always is my name is co hi uh we're going to be finishing up Yakuza in the very near future possibly tomorrow morning and then I'm probably going to be playing a lot of Hardcore wow CU it's a lot of fun and I'm enjoying it so it's going to be good but anyway as always always thank you guys so much for being here if I don't see you next week and if I don't see you until then have a good week until next week and uh yeah thanks for watching fantastic thanks everyone so much for being on and being here we'll get the VOD up over at YouTube in a little bit uh I'm going to stream 2ish hours uh before I go to dinner of some wild classic I suppose we'll see how that goes I'm not fully sold on streaming yet like the idea of watching someone play Wild classic is so [ __ ] bizarre to me I can't wrap my head around it so we'll see we'll see how it goes um and then I'm also continuing uh we're doing a rerun of Monster Hunter world where I intend to solo Fatalis which means I got about 150 hours of Monster Hunter World in front of me but I want to do it good God I enjoy it I want to play some more and uh wait real quick real quick how did how did this challenge come around what is this so I made a list of goals uh couple months back and one of those goals problem one of those goals amongst a bunch of other stupid goals was to solo Fatalis cuz chat said I couldn't do it wow uh and so I started a new run and it's a process it takes on average if you're not speedrunning it it's around like 150ish hours to grind everything to get to that point well it's been a so I got a lot you have an active channel on Twitch yeah viewers ship's actually been pretty good for it it's funny yeah uh that yeah people like come out of the [ __ ] woodwork when you when you play moner they're like I this one the rise sucks I don't like rise that's usually a conversation is how bad rise was um so yeah we'll do some more of that tomorrow whatever works man whatever works do some wild classic in the evenings that's at least the play uh for now next week uh what releases do we have Super Mario RPG remake comes out and Persona 5 tactics tactica tactics one of those those are both on the 17th um there's a handful of other stuff uh as well is Yakuza which we'll talk about next week we'll have time for it yeah like a dragon giden it's actually great what games are you guys playing like in the next few weeks those are really the only two that I've I've got on my radar I I'm kind of in a holding pattern until Rogue Trader yeah I for me it's kind of like Path of Exile has a new season in December and then there's not much for me that I'm super interested until like January so it's there's a brand new Rusty Lake game out called Underground Blossom if you are not in the rusty Lake verse get in that it is the best okay Rusty Lake this like an allen Rusty lake is a series of like many games most are free some are like four bucks and they're weird as hell they're point and clicks like old school point and clicks and uh a new one just came out and I can't wait to play it that's that's my plan this week yeah yeah man chat I got some folks in chat saying Rusty likes great so there you go yeah Poe December that's kind of there's not much it's it's been a really weird uh I was talking about this with chat it's been a really weird time the past six months on Twitch because we've had week after week so much to play and when your job is like playing games it's really nice to be like that's a new hot release that week let's play that brand new stuff to play and now there's kind of the the the break and all of that stuff um for the first time in a long time there are a lot of great games that we've a lot of us have not been able play sea of stars yeah uh star Star Ocean R is awesome I actually played that for like 10 minutes just to make sure it worked and was getting like slapped around with a Nostalgia sausage to my face like it was it it feels so good yeah uh my time at Sandrock hit 1.0 that's a really Co TR forgot that came out yeah like yeah there's there's a lot of I coral island comes out soon so yeah yeah it's uh lot lot of good a lot of good things to to to play yeah I mean you can do your second or third ball or skate three run that that is cross my mind as well uh funny enough the The Meta the twitch meta of all things which I did not anticipate at 20123 is while classic hardcore you're telling me dude oh you're preaching in the choir man here we are and I don't think that's going to die I think that's going to stay ignited throughout the year uh I think the hardcore thing makes it a lot more interesting I think you you say that you say that uh you know you're baffled that people can watch people it's it's a little different when you're watching somebody play and you know that like literally a 30 second series of mistakes can end 80 plus hours of like it adds a little bit of a a little more tension to it I feel like so a Vier especially if they're like in a hard area that you know about and stuff like that like people were so has Coen to Westfall yet has Coen to westf fall oh I've I've been see maybe that maybe that's the difference like the big has he been to Westfall maybe that's the difference cuz like you are the the what's the you're like the the person visiting for the the first time whereas I'm like Westfall I'm never [ __ ] I'm in eastall [ __ ] I'm on the complete I'm not I'm not going there are you [ __ ] crazy meanwhile chat in my channel while I'm playing is like all in unison all 10 West Fall yeah they're all West dude the uh we got to wrap but Jesse the best part uh one of the best parts I should say about wild classic is everyone's using a add-on called uh is it death death death log and death log actively has heat Maps it tracks uh everyone that uses it and has like on the tool tip when you hover over mob it says like this is the so and so deadliest mob in Azeroth in this Zone it tells you stuff all the players on the server it tells you what level they were what killed them where they were what happened and the last thing they said in chat so like it's so it's amazing when you see a guy and it's like yeah he just got killed level 44 by an iron golem last thing he said in chat oh I got got this Golem no problem and it's like yeah there's they were doing a niia last night on the server did you have that two people died during the thing so it spam the the server that like two people died by anexia and the last thing they typed is like Hey man can I get some water and you're just like oh my God that poor guy oh yeah somebody died last night and and the last thing he said in chat is like let me pull that off you I'll save you and I was like yeah dude it's he gave his life it's really fun to see that [ __ ] I was watching kenor play and someone got killed by the unders City elevator and the last thing he said was him half typing out a sentence that's what killed him I was like yo that's so funny yeah that's pretty cool well that that's the other thing too who like me and Co are playing Alliance and I've typically played horde who the [ __ ] would ever go to under City Thunder Bluff like The Horde cities are just death traps uh Co they have giant Thunder Bluff is all up in the sky yeah yeah and unders city has a [ __ ] elevator I've been told even even in my dwarf City there's just this red ring around the center Lait where people people have died in the lava pit yeah Auto the auto running deaths are off the charts it's it's wild it that that's a fun thing to to see so anyways uh we got to get out of here thank you so much for watching drop frames we'll put the VOD up on YouTube for those folks who want to enjoy that uh and uh we'll be back next week maybe with a a wow classic uh player maybe it'll just be three of us I don't know we'll see we'll see see what happens for now though we're out of here Jesse once again thanks for joining us for the island two spoilercast general and we will see you guys next week for more drop frames we're out of here have a good one bye-bye

Channel: itmeJP

Views: 33,669

Keywords: Dropped, HD, games, Dropped Frames, itmeJP, Xsplit, streaming, Cohh, 1080p, streamers, Ezekiel_III, CohhCarnage, Obs, Twitch, live streamers, TwitchTV, live stream, twitch tv, video games, itmejp, playstation, playstation 5, xbox, xbox series x, react, state of play, twitch drama, videogamedunkey, mrbeast, xqc, shroud, twitchcon, alan wake 2, grand theft auto 6, gta6, the game awards, tga, world of warcraft

Id: gasSjNQDD-o

Length: 183min 30sec (11010 seconds)

Published: Sun Nov 12 2023