Dropped Frames Special - Final Fantasy VII Spoilercast

[Music] hello everyone and welcome to a special episode of drop frames here where we're gonna spoil the [ __ ] out of Final Fantasy 7 and then somehow figure out what Nomura has on max it's just no time to you know spawning all these uh whatever I don't know I'll even know what to get to that soon hey let's also start off with real quick sick yeah I am sick first of all but also since I have been able to say this that's the end of draw frame yeah we got to say we're gonna spoil stuff first and then you can say your spoils go oh hey we're gonna spoil stuff Co go ahead again d my god I just like my god dude like there's there's been it's kind of funny because you know I'm generally a pretty talkative guy I generally say what I'm thinking during during games and even if I'm feeling a lot I can generally like piece it out but I think it was tripping or somebody somebody told me they they watched the end of my thing and I basically was just sitting there for like 20 straight minutes just like yeah I did the same thing I think we all know I was just I just just like okay so I'm gonna try to absorb this more than anything right I haven't seen anyone really truly react to it in the moment no it's it's a little bit of a mindfuck overwhelming I think yeah really reminds me of is that at the end at the end of a very specific game you find out you're some crazy squid baby I'm like huh well then you go back and invite it again you're like oh what game are we referencing here next Kingdom Hearts 1 oh yeah the first one yeah the original ps2 cuz that's the one with the extra dry extra layer right oh wow mmm I was gonna say the real yeah yeah but yeah and like we also talked about on the shows like I was definitely one of those people that was that was so vehemently angry at square for calling the game Final Fantasy 7 remake when we knew it was only like 20 to 30 percent of the game right yeah after one like I made a whole little video that we would link during the playthrough and it was just me be like what are you doing square this is and then you know it's funny because so many people watch that video especially after other streamers had completed their playthrough and they were just like oh man ko is gonna oh is not gonna like that video when he's done with this and and of course like right right at the end of the game I was like oh it's Final Fantasy 7 remake right I didn't get it they even even upon immediate completion you don't you don't even get it right it takes some time to realize that like oh they're literally like a character is remake in the characters and like woo the ghosts represented it's funny because Edward Xena my playthrough I jogging Lee said something and looking back it's kind of like well maybe some like I started naming the ghosts different forum trolls complaining how the game was going again original or I was like oh look there's pro fort 69 and there's 8 or 1 you know and like like it was just fly and it's like holy [ __ ] dude once once once it was over and I watch together people beat it looting you max that was an amazing couple hours in the morning maybe I watched a couple of key videos why not some things that I would have missed be blunt and like put the whole puzzle together and it's like dude this is this is this entire game has become a commentary on remaking a classic but I'm pretty sure the original people knew they couldn't remake like they couldn't they like they they could by remaking that it would have taken away from what it is so they're they're giving themselves the world you kind of Reese Culp that into something maybe even more meaningful by keeping the base the original right keeping that as a work of art and then just give you a different perspective on that artwork instead of trying to replace the art they even several years that like one of the scariest things would be to like make Final Fantasy 7 like a lot of them were nervous about it in memories but then one of the things that actually got them on board to like oh we need to start doing this was technically the mortality of a lot of them because you know the writer is much older and Nomura is like mid 40s and all these guys like by the time this is done how old are we gonna be so no sure that was actually one of the reasons why they they kicked this thing in we got to start now and I was like no no joke like five years ago yeah I think you guys kind of led into this and I think I was gonna save his question towards the end but I'll do it now is this is square-like back making good Final Fantasy games with this one because I kind of feel like this is a resurgence of Final Fantasy's of past at least it's in Capcom like right Capcom's sort of back right now in many ways it feels like a lot of these big JP companies are sort of like you know kicking it into gear yeah yeah I feel like this is them kicking the door open this this is the introductory paragraph to what the actual work is gonna be and and seeing how they're gonna use this new medium to to retell slash tell a new story is gonna be extremely interesting so what they basically said they just they basically played it pretty safe with this in an amazingly good way by keeping most the content but as the original which was really safe and really good and they also made a lot better in so many ways by making the characters so relatable and giving them so much life and actually connect with them on levels that I didn't even realize existed and the original for me so for people that really liked the original like the remake opened doors I didn't know were there and now that those doors have been opened at the very end they were like and this is what we can do with it we have we have taken away the rules we have opened everything we have put in this composer via this six-foot gray-haired god that is now going to like using puppet springs strings decide how this is all going to play out on his new stage and we're gonna see what that work is going to be now the really interesting thing is is it's going to be like are they going to use this same kind of thing where they're going to continue to retell the story but put in these little flavors of new or are we going to see something that's drastically different are we gonna get like kind of like the original where it was you know like 80 ish percent what we expected but then what not including the ending 20% just kind of interesting new stuff are we gonna get more of that or are they setting up a divergence it's just completely mind-blowing and one thing I'm really interested to hear max talk about because I've purposely been avoiding a lot of the stuff he's been doing since his big ending Sheila I'm sure he's learned a ton since then I want to know what max thinks about this whole Zach introduction I want I want to know like where are we going with this and is this gonna be a huge part of the next thing or is this gonna just be or was it like just more of an homage yeah I mean I have a lot of theories I actually actually really want to hear what strippin sort of felt about like the experience in general and because I know stripping you're a pretty big ff7 fan before all this right yeah yeah it was actually the first game I have a book on the staudte there for me not even know how to paper round and I it was like my whole introduction to RPGs and stuff yeah I've been I've been going super hard this week this cipher the ending and Zach honestly the Zach why is the only but I'm kind of stumped on cuz there really is nothing I'll say me too like if there's if there's one thing like there's a lot of theories and a lot of deduction and a lot of evidence and a lot of stuff that you can sort of come to a conclusion on throughout the game on second playthrough that's why I think this game actually incentivizes new game+ a lot like why it wants you to play it's hard mode because it wants you to go back and make story observations that you might not have caught the first time but then all honestly dude Zach aspect of it is just completely over my head I'm not gonna act like I I have an exact idea of where it's going I have an idea but I see like I see several directions of where they could be taking it and to be completely honest completely honest I I don't even think we're gonna see a lot of Zach in the second game I think he's to be like this thing that sort of exists in like you know sort of by the side of our characters right but sort of the same way that this game is he's like in the end and he's like an odd he's practically like the Nick Fury of the game you know where it's like suddenly at the end of an Iron Man what do you see Nick Fury and you're like whoa what does that mean what's going on huh yeah it's like I almost feel that they're taking because they're trying to no there's no [ __ ] they're making a Final Fantasy 7 Cinematic Universe they're just taking so many Marvel isms with what makes Marvel movie so good and similar to Marvel right like you know where the story is going if you paid attention to the comics that's right this is how are we gonna get there like in what fashion and that's kind of similar to what we're doing here so dude I that last shot of the one right after cloud and era that everyone sort of passed by each other where it's like oh they're not in the same plane of existence like they're never gonna meet each other type thing yeah I feel like cloud on his shoulder and then walking in the rain towards that edge of Midgar that visual is so hauntingly similar to the exact same way spoilers Zack gets shot in the back very unceremoniously in the original seven yeah I can touch him though I saw my breakdown that when we get to that oh yeah we'll say you know I'm convinced by Erin Zach in C or no oh no they didn't I I could not I think the game shows us there yeah and the reference to like missing this steel sky is because it doesn't rain with under the plate and the last time it rained that guy so she feels the rain and I think her it's like bringing back a painful memory I don't think yeah I think they were relate at all I wanna I think that there was more of an homage yeah no I was gonna say Co go ahead but max by all means well just real quickly big tough go ahead we're gonna do this a lot yeah right go you're good one thing though that's that's kind of messed with me a little bit is obviously we're working with divergent timelines obviously we're working with with time dilation in some format but the thing that's kind of strange to me there seems to be a persistent mini-timeline in the fact that the the that Midgard gets enshrouded by what would you call it the spirit shield when the little ghosties are making yes the plot goes the the plot grows start making the shield around the city what is the significance of Zack noticing that for the first time earlier in history and apparently a separate timeline so I I think I have an answer and I think right this is all doctor looking at this [ __ ] for a lot and paying attention to a lot of theories and ideas I think the thing that makes the most sense is there is something that they show you at the end of the game that all of our characters are sort of witnessing despite what time when and how is Biggs alive like it is is sector 7 the same is Zack Zacks alive our main characters like what what happens consistently through all of it they all see it gone they all see like the big glowing a spectra like you know the little magic final fantasy sparkles are everywhere yeah that effect is them being dead is right is essentially fate being removed from the situation but our characters in the past see it our characters and potentially the present are aware of it it's like this this sort of like time convergence that happens in the past future are present happens to everyone or any characters that we're familiar with like we can't say it's happening to everyone in any one but at least his zach in the past and our characters in our you know game present they were witnessing some crazy like aurora borealis that was time essentially our fate our arc implanted in control of fate going away so at that point it's like oh there's a big change right Zach lived and that's something that broke the planets control of what the hell's going on so all of our characters were aware of this like big temporal events that oh these things went away no that's my interpretation of it at least hmm so in real quick I said that Zach noticed it but I don't I don't think I should have said that the game decided to show us that because I don't I don't know exact notice the go shield you know solid oh not him yeah he was like walking up yeah so the plot ghosts formed the shield originally to prevent events from transpiring because them like leaving oh it's I think it's more I think it's more like the plot ghost shield this happening when our characters are fighting right when our characters are battling the the final bosses of the game and it when they're I'm just gonna scream and finally these with these characters are battling the ghosts right like there's this big dome around Midgar that and it's showing that even though zach is in the past that dome is there right it's it's not that they were happening back when Zach was happening it's that these things aren't relevant to past present or future they are time right it's fate what's happening to everyone at any given time so at that point what once our characters beat the ghosts beat the stupid plot ghosts boom it affects Zach in the past it affects our characters in the present and I mean I don't know if you guys have seen this I had to be made aware of it in the past few bigs being alive isn't a part of the temporal event bigs lived if you go back to the chapter select bigs didn't die up on the the platform tower yeah yeah it actually says he gets wounded right yeah yeah when Jesse is dead unfortunately for everybody jesse is not making it it says that she passes but bigs I think that was the red herring that it seems like they kill Biggs but if you go back to the chapter select they don't and it appears that Biggs is like missing an a limb or something when he's under the the bedsheet so I think that was sort of the misdirection that they were throwing in there that oh it seems like Biggs is brought back to life because of the temporal event I think he just survived somehow did Kate's it save him who knows right but I think that's one thing that is sort of like leading us one direction and they specifically did that ya know if if the lot go shield was went across time though what do you think was the significance of them showing it being created at the end of the game because if with all of that kind of pomp and circumstance around the ghosts forming the shield trying to stop them from leaving the city as a whole at what point would that have happened in the past and then have that shield created at that point one interesting thing that I just realized is it's kind of interesting because the the auto shield and I do want to hear what JPS to say about this that the goat shield whatever mine's more of a grandeur that the the the cannon story of crisis core which by the way is the only game that made me cry at work when I finished it I was not I was not ready for that yeah I'm sitting here in front of just like bawling in my so it's so beautiful but um one thing that's kind of interesting is I wonder if the shield forming around the city during the Zach part is actually not letting the soldiers leave the city they're the ones that kill Zach yeah that's maybe that's what I'm on the same level is you on that one I think like the the plot ghosts are occupied with this Sephiroth thing right like as Eric describes and they're the last line of defense of the planet and the whole reason the plot ghosts are there you got to realize the whole reason Final Fantasy 7 remake is even happening like what are the plot ghosts what is their objective why are they in this remake like why are they suddenly in ER interfering with things there has to be a reason for it they're there because Sephiroth is essentially screwing with the timeline right they have to fix a frost in every instance yeah Sephiroth is just [ __ ] with you as a player they're [ __ ] with our characters they're doing all this stuff on like many levels so the plot ghosts are there too aki they're occupied by Sephiroth so what are they unable to do at that point aren't able to make sure that Zach and ice aren't able to keep that and I think the only reason we're seeing that is that relative to us the player that's a big moment right that's a big crazy difference that we could be aware of that oh this dude lived what if their savings that because they know that's the only way they can defeat Sephiroth that's some level for [ __ ] KO can't go that far okay go that's that's that's way further but like the actual intentions of the planet like that's some way further [ __ ] like your your your presuming what their presuming like the end game of any games right there if you compare I'll go jiffy well I was gonna say now you've got me in this [ __ ] now [ __ ] tomorrow's parasitic dick it's about working his way in my head I'm like okay what is the significance then of the party defeating destiny at the end if they're still trying to protect Zach doesn't that mean that it's just like doesn't [ __ ] matter anymore at all cuz Destiny's dead don't make their own that's what I wanted even they needed cloud wants to feel James right holding separate from being able to change the future because at the end of seven he pretty much gets what he wants when meteor is coming there and causing life's tree to open but that ponies already been defeated so when he comes back at the end of a band children it's in a non complete form but it's enough to start in with the timeline right is why he kind of starts reinventing himself earlier and that's well you know what max you could probably I'm gonna try to bring JP on board right now there's a specific line that red thirteen has at the end of the game he has visions of Advent Children and stuff red thirteen has a line of dialogue that hints that he sees himself five hundred years in the future like the old ff7 no ending and he says that's the bad ending and it's been revealed by developers over the past many years right I think catarse has literally said the ending of Final Fantasy seven is a world devoid of humans so the planet has essentially the planet doesn't like people the planet likes the ancients etc you got to kind of realize that Aerith is our connection to the planet and she is like trying to her best to like make it work and she eventually gets the planet on her side at the end of the original ff7 however like geo stigma and all this crazy Advent Children stuff like people still end up dying like at the end of ff7 according to Canon the planet isn't really on our side like humans aren't like our obviously a huge blight with a very small majority better like this so remember your Tina's a vision like right right thirteen has this vision that is essentially the original ff7 sync that's bad right in this situation Sephiroth dies and and you guys all die so our characters are set on this path where they have to kill this thing because what is it it's a creation of the planet to keep the events of the original ff7 in order and Aerith because Aerith is clearly aware of [ __ ] that's going on Aerith even makes the same decision well like Sephiroth is sort of inviting you to kill these this ghost stuff and then Aerith is like yeah we got to kill this ghost stuff this is scary Aerith is the part where I start where it starts to just it I start to get upset cuz like the entire game Aerith doesn't like really let on that she knows what's happening and then you get to breathe well it's very subtle and then you get to in to breathe she's like by the way we're gonna go and fight fate they kind of control everything if we go through this book and weird portal we're gonna it's it's on [ __ ] all the [ __ ] like such a weird joke I disagree with you stripping trying to jump in here yeah have you guys read the side novels livestream back and livestream white of course not o nojima who is the right of 597 he wrote us some short side stories that take place after final vices haven't finished and they're about Tifa and Denzil and barrett and what they do to keep helping the planet and keep going on and all this kind of stuff yes we're curious from there's six track higher II know at the end of every chapter there is a small paragraph and they alternate the code lifestream black and live stream white and the crew live stream black one live stream what - and it goes over to three live stream black is specifically a story about Sephiroth after seven live stream white all about Aerith and this super interesting they basically I mean I can read them if you guys want to just go through it it's just six chapters and it they're pretty short like little paragraphs but you go ahead oh yeah the whole whole ending is about Advent Children Rudy yeah well the game is about so many different things that are not like they're in the Final Fantasy 7 world but they're not in the Final Fantasy 7 a lot of this game has Advent Children stuff always all and being Advent Children yeah yeah I'll read them to you and you guys can like take this and apply it to the game on the end of the game and it's gonna help me make love real quick before you do this these were written after Final Fantasy 7 but before Advent Children no I think they were written around the same time as Advent Children I don't have the exact dates it was he wrote them as filler to get from seven to Advent Children yeah like how we get from events from pointed might be much of it ties into remate and they've been translated it was it was obviously like a Japanese only thing they've been translated but they're super interesting I'll read I'll read like like one in white one live stream black one is the man could sense the live stream trying to erode his spirit the memories of his former experiences thoughts and emotions if he allowed himself to be taken into the current of the live stream the being he once was would dissipate and disappear among the spirit energy the man thought is unacceptable the planet was to be his rule and to become a part of that system would be nothing short of defeat the man sends a large flux in the live stream a sign of another different defeat when the live stream erupted onto the surface of the planet the man thought the cloud was no doubt CERN of his victory I was the one who had twice sent the man into the lifestream okay so we confirmed that he did kill Sephiroth twice in Sevilla the man knew that if one could hold on to some core of their spirit then one could remain a separate entity independent from the planet system clout the man decided to make cloud the core and he wanted to let cloud know of that I'm still thinking of you and I'll show you the proof of that as well I'll just go I'm gonna go always free black and then through white so we can so this is why this is why he's so obsessed with cloud at the end of this game why he's like I need you like I got you to be there realize is that if he's a self on cloud he will be immortal as long as cloud remembers him which is why he's constantly harassing cloud and vision and that's the battle even in the original ff7 that's the whole point of cloud Rijn is like yes tup mind prison stuff in the final battle of ff7 isn't you like journeying into the livestream that whole weird were whole thing yeah is you going into clouds head is you like a finally defeating Sephiroth in clouds head so I know did the whole crux of Sepphoris as long as use a lot and remember pretty much Davis not here in more I'll keep going when a livestream erupted onto the surface of the planet the man had already surrendered his inconsequential memories of the planet memories when he was a boy of his friends the battles he was still unaware and his life in bygone days all these became a part of the inundation encased around meteor and finally they receded at the same time the core of his spirit and those memories deeply related to it so his desire to destroy the world moved from torrent to torrent and traveled from land sea to sea when the people who were trying to escape or those left unable to do anything but stand still were enveloped by his streams he decided to leave them with his stigma so Sephiroth is directly responsible for geo stigma he did it on purpose yeah if cloud noticed the stigma the man was certain he would never disappear as long as cloud remembers me I can continue to exist he said within the lifestream and on the surface even if my spirit disappears even if just one fragment of a memory horses around the planet in the end I can count on clouds consciousness to bring me back to life and this is this thing they set up in a vent children like that Sephiroth is a memetic legacy that he's like cellular right he doesn't have to be like he doesn't have to have his physical body us in the remake we still have to like race physical bodies still up north and in the northern crater because i'm how summon a froth that we get and remake like did he somehow I'm like wait for [ __ ] it gets a guest interesting despite mankind's troubles life on planet have returned to normal so this is after the events of fire 97 sure the man became aware of the increase in spirits it could be called the darkness of the heart melding with the live stream he cherished that lingering darkness even more so when he considered that the stigma he had left on the surface was what created the darkness he thought that he could possibly enjoy himself with that feeling the live stream with darkness the man hid himself within the life of the planet and traveled around the world branding more people with his stigma on the surface there were many people who no longer had their normal lives at the man's in the dark parts of their hearts grew larger soon the man thought to himself I won't cloud to know this is my doing I want the humans no this is am i doing and for that he needed a body there were things he wanted to say in his own voice and things he went to shatter by his own hand he decided he would use his mother's power with a fragment of mother's body I too can get a body again he thought and so firstly he tried to manifest on the surface just as a spirit his attempt failed it already returned the memories of his own appearance to the planet so he couldn't remember what he looked like and he was neighbor to produce an image of himself the man found memories of a suitable appearance from the lifestream and wood that formed an image it was the form of a boy soon the man remembered that being on the surface was incomparably more limited than the freedom of being a spirit so he created two more agents to do his work which as we know are Kadosh dodgems ooh yes these three were separate entities and at the same time he himself these three create by the strength of the man's will and detached from the system of the planet were both at once a part of reality and monsters out of fantasy the man thought of the future as my servants look for mother if they come across someone who knows me and from that spirit I can learn of who I once was and with mother's father assistance I can become fully real even if there's something lacking it doesn't matter cloud will make me complete that we'll just read about it anchor cloud is his nunn of nunn of like that stuff is gonna be surface level none of it like there's like all that stuff is gonna be this subtext that they're gonna sprinkle through it it's the same way that they handle compilation of Final Fantasy 7 things because there's a lot of compilation there's there's a dirge of cerberus references there's Crisis Core references there's before crisis references but how are they handled like I don't think at any point we're just gonna get Genesis in the background spewing about Lovelace eating an apple like in some flashback I don't think that's gonna happen because the way part-1 handled all these not tiny nuances like strippin says with all these like references and stuff how cloud is about how sefirot this telling cloud you know you're important to me how they have like [ __ ] soul and they talk about Genesis in this game and they do it it's handled there well it all depends on like the context of the situation where it feels like obviously like you know darkness this and you know all this kind of stuff that is very Premanand things and other in other games it you don't get that feeling from ff7 which is the big difference here I definitely do I feel like this game I've seen of Hearts the extension like full that I couldn't shake that the entire time you fight [ __ ] Dark Knight at the end of the game with the text fertility and wait no no the entire game up until the very end was incredible and then it was like oh by the way Kingdom Hearts was grounded you guys realize now though what's tripping has just essentially like they're here I'm sorry to say yes I think that that's on eros um you wanna know I Aerith isn't dying in the next one and that's where that that's die Wow is the only thing that has to be removed from this equation for Sephiroth to actually stop being the ultimate evil if Sephiroth is going to be eliminated then cloud is either gonna have to be removed from the picture somehow or completely taken out of commission because anywhere that cloud exists Sephiroth can use as that Horcrux like max was saying to get back in and what do you think cloud is gonna do if you figures that out what do you think other people gonna do if they figure that out Aerith at the end of the game straight-up says there's only one thing that's wrong here Sephiroth is wrong like he's the person that's not supposed to be here he's the entity or as causing all this go wrong so if they figure out that like he is latched on to cloud and dude for all we know especially from what's tripping just said there's a chance that maybe Sephiroth got to this timeline via cloud maybe we're gonna find out that some event that happened there was the the gateway that then brought him past a pack or what would it be I guess in this past Advent Children Sephiroth the one week an angel version home we have lots of different use from and how that's the actual sefirot that exist in this new timeline but dude it come in yeah wow this is I just gotta say I just gotta say it's so high I'm so happy talking to a group of people that are completely on board that this is Advent Children Sephiroth like this is separate from the future yeah difficult right like so yeah I completely agree with you code that this is this is like this is the whole reason why this another time line was act right cuz cloud essentially big spoilers right the cloud takes who Zach is and then adopts his persona essentially adopts his life and then lives his life for him Zach by this other timeline technically is gonna do the same thing for cloud like really that's like--that's like the comparison we're looking at here Zach's gonna live clouds life in the alternate timeline we don't have proof but dude like it makes a lot of sense that zach is gonna be the one to jump off the train he's gonna be the one to do all that stuff he's gonna bleed our characters he's gonna meet Aerith right right all this shit's gonna happen but at some point by the very end of all of it there's gonna be one character that has to remain and most likely it might isn't ubi like Zach or cloud and you might have to make a choice of that [ __ ] do you want to repeat history you could choose cloud if you want this game sets up a lot of options or so that's like a boat here because there may be so similar because you guys like both both of their paths converge at Zach's death and then Klaus continues to essentially the world's death so if they were to switch that then they could cut and then cloud we're to get to the end at that point and both of them could come together and there'd be no future for either of them that would really end of both their stories so they could have some big final move together oh yeah and then all this media weather again finally after all those of not knowing each other and finally be friends and team up oh so strip the strip and I said what's up are you gonna read more do more I got I got I think nojima is as much responsible as no more if not more honest fit before before you say this I gotta I gotta go over before everyone goes like the number and no more aspect I gotta go for one big big aspect of Nomura for Final Fantasy 7 it was like the battle director and the character designer of the original game but he was heavily involved in the story it was no murres idea in the original ff7 to kill eros know Jima and and katana who was the writer and the director of the original game wanted to kill every person in the party except a chosen three so that very final party of three that would go fight sephiroth's he wanted to kill everyone during the revisit to Midgar people would parachute in you feel get blown up in an interview recently had to like well this was like within the last year in an interview no Mira's like I wanted to kill Aerith but you wanted to kill everyone and no and I think I think catarse was like what are you talking about no we did and he's like yeah you did everyone was gonna die on the return to Midgard except three and the Kittitas it was like oh yeah you write me we're gonna do that I have to get the dude credit where credit's due sure sure stripping should we read more from the booth Nomura did a lot for ff7 original yeah you did yeah you definitely have his handsome all over it for sure he also designed Tifa so he's just a king there you go I'm a read okay go ahead read okay this is live stream white three chapters a woman was an ancient witch explained how she was able to maintain her individuality even within the lifestream if she so wished she could become Pavel him anytime but she thought it was too early for that just yet woman had sensed a different presence within the livestream cycling around the planet it was the vehemence of a strong will one that would never join with the planet she knew this consciousness it was the man who had taken her life a merciless spirit hidden behind a wall that spirit was now operating from within the lifestream woman's sense that he was planning to exert his influence to the surface of the planet she wondered what she could do because it would be dangerous for her to come into contact with him the woman tried to keep away from the man's consciousness because of this she could not learn much of the man's plot and I'll touch on this because that one's like Aerith knew what going on and I'm like she knew something was going on but she didn't know [ __ ] okay however just once when the man spirit suddenly peed near her she discovered that he had made his memories of cloud the core of his being cloud was her friend a beloved a symbol of what was important to her and someone should be protected the woman discovered that there was a growing number of spirits within the lifestream who refused to be absorbed by it while they were different from the man spirit they rejected the lifestream due to the same emotion hatred their feelings towards the planet was steeped in hatred just like that man's this is the result of his influence reaching the surface she thought which was a stigma the woman's request to the souls that had just entered the live stream and tried to heal them beneath the surface of M nity were hidden memories memories from their lives as normal people while unremarkable they had many joyous memories and she released those thoughts and dissolved them into the life stream having lost the core of their emotions the surface animosity disappeared the woman had found a solution however more and more spirits steeped in spite kept appearing and it was too much for her to bear she rushed through a live stream in search of other souls to help her other ancients on the verge of diffusing these fragments of consciousness accepted her undertaking when she found fragments of consciousness of people she had once known pitifully a few a number she infused them with her own memories and sought their assistance she had more spirits on her side and even so the hatred borne by that man did not decrease she then thought of cloud living his rally on the surface in order to reduce the hatred lingering in the lifestream she would have to remove the hatred flooding in the real world the woman wondered if cloud could help her however that might need to cloud getting her as well the cloud she knew had a very fragile heart the woman considered ways of telling cloud about the crisis and she thought all the feelings she couldn't tell him about came back to her vividly there were many things she wanted to tell cloud however she did not know what she should tell him or how to tell him it been awhile since she had worried in the end the woman decided she would see cloud first and then think about what to do eventually the woman discovered that the man spreading hatred around the world was trying to manifest himself on the surface she wondered how he was planning to do this summoning up or her courage she approached the man's spirit however he spied her and chased her off she knew the man was laughing at her you can't do anything however she had caught what he was planning it was apparently going to use separate entity to be his agents the woman asked herself if she could do the same however she soon changed her mind even if it were possible I would want to meet cloud the way he knows me so she kind of confirms that she could come back to if she wanted to bring that's what they're talking about yeah yeah this reminds me of ghostbusters 2 so much they're ghosts the ghosts use like hatred to like manifest themselves with ghostbusters 2 and everyone just has to like be in better spirits to actually fight what's going on and that's that's and that that hatred is manifested through a virus in in an adventure open like the whole point is that that forms in the form of geo stigma hmm yeah I mean so I mean Percy like these two people other people or at least influence the people in 7 remake right oh yeah a few oh you best if you assess the Harbinger at the end something they mention is they are connected to all the threads of time and space to shape the planets fate so if if these spirits are connected to time and space it's entirely possible or Seth Ross lingering spirit and eros lingman spirit though knowing the livestream to somehow influence their pasts out so wait a second Aerith is she's growing up her mother comments that she hears voices and talks to spirits are those the other spirits in the livestream that may have been interacting with Sephiroth or maybe even warning her I think I think that yeah to a degree yeah potentially because okay I wonder if there's any dilation I wonder if they could have sensed what Sephiroth was doing or somehow had knowledge about his transference back into the remake timeline like I wonder I wonder if there was any type of knowledge transference about the current state of events in remake and not just because one thing that's always interested me and and and this is a real quick actually let's put a quick pause on this before we continue because I really want to hear that thing earlier we were talking about the KP what is your issue with plot ghosts like what I've no I haven't released at all that it's it's just a large like it's a terrible name I'm on two paths I'm on path I've already played Kingdom Hearts so all like I just want a normal story from this if you similar to something so I just wanted a normal in final fantasy right but I've also played Kingdom Hearts so I'm interested in like the nonsense that this can spew into right so that's that's why I'm here affect you guys I'm gonna chime in really quick about plot ghosts and the way they're handled in this game plot ghosts are annoying right they stop you from getting materia they stop the players from progressing they stop you from feeling the moments that you want to feel about the original Final Fantasy 7 it's almost like they're designed to be annoying well I'm usually in a bit of other like you know fictions from Final Fantasy usually big things like this that interlude are held with reverence right they're held that there are these super important mythical creatures or something like that but even even Aerith is freaked out by them Barrett calls them [ __ ] like there are several points where this game handles the annoying things like roche who is specifically supposed to be like a hyper final fantasy character but he's he's annoying he's insane right like why is this guy so weird like the game specifically addresses that that's the big tone shift from this game and a lot of other final fantasies is that this game makes you this game sympathizes with a player this [ __ ] is annoying everyone in the game is gonna comment it comment on how annoying and how weird it is that these guys get out of the way you pace as a [ __ ] like that nobody likes them including the player and that's so much different than what square normally handles story wise they also on the other side they do also help the player sometimes they also help the character sometimes but it's the fear right and I know their own need but it's still like the player can look at that you know not necessarily hate them outright what sure okay well that makes a lot of sense especially with your reasoning why he would hate the Pago stuff okay so moving moving on to the next thing I kind of wanted to touch on because I'm very interested in hearing y'all's opinions on this especially stripping to max first of all I want to thank max because you linked a video that I watched it was one of the most eye-opening videos that I've ever seen and that was that commentary from I want to say music notes all that music oh my god I've never had my mind blown 7:30 in the morning harder and after watching that video it was amazing yeah but um but kind of tying into that and something that that actually mentions in that video where he says like this one line that kind of stuck with me a little bit and by the way I don't know II have a link to that video but we should definitely better check this videos yeah me together does that or anything I really want to know okay one thing I really want to know y'all's opinions on is is twofold one what creates the flashbacks that we continually see through remake because as we know those aspects obviously we're not there in the original I suppose something in reading on them yeah yeah the flip flash-forward see I'm sorry flash-forwards I'm and and so originally I thought maybe they were proximity to Sephiroth or maybe Sephiroth was purposefully implanting them or maybe they were inspiring them and then second of all here's where gets weird and this is this comes from a line from that video these are not only flash-forwards these are flash understandings because at one point we see cloud get glimpses of that iconic feature scene and you see a tear go down as cheek which indicates a fundamental emotional and mental understanding of what he witnessed and then like a flash he's just back to normal but it's like okay you are this happening and B what would their purpose be the music then that moment is also really important to once again there's spoiler music throughout this game all over the place the music is the theme at the end of the original ff7 so clouds essentially experiencing the emotions for a brief moment of the end of Final Fantasy 7 reek and sort of sense that Aerith saved everybody so I'll by the way the way that [ __ ] is handled right if there's one thing that well they're changing stuff in the remake and this is one big change that cloud does doesn't get flashbacks to remembering stuff from his past he's getting premonitions of the future and it's handled so so well it's some of my favorite moments in the game where he doesn't know what's going on and he has no perspective but you as the player are the ones that like are aware and have perspective it's and I think I think it's one of two outcomes it's like the Mach o in his blood right his connection to the planet in some way feeding him direct information of the future to like you need to know that this happened right that this stuff is going to happen but he has no context yet so it doesn't make any sense by the end of the game it makes a lot of sense because you're killing the future you know and it's giving you visions or we think yeah exactly or its Sephiroth just messing with them like it's gonna be one of the other and I what I know what it is we don't know yet so see here's where gets interesting though so and this this is one of the things that I've been wrestling with so let's assume that the theory that the Sephiroth in Final Fantasy 7 remake is post Advent Children so he has recombined he has he has become entered God status which would also explain by the way why cereth has these crazy powers and remake like sure he was super weird and original but he couldn't just appear and warp out of nowhere and like he does know it's a weird anime [ __ ] in remake woman that makes a lot more sense if we assume assuming that oh this is like the god Sephiroth from from Advent Children now he can't reverse time and space and possibly dimensions and okay so that being said the possibility that that actor is called Sephiroth the the maka nadir the actor he would be the only one in this timeline that would have the information of this future timeline unless we were to assume that the that the earth itself did so that being said he is the one supplying those directly into these different characters what significance is the timing with those considering they're almost none of them directly impact the scenes they're tied to go over that one one more time you'll ask me like halfway through like yeah so so Sephiroth would Sephiroth comes back to the beginning of remake yes he pulls with him all the knowledge of his past or clouds future the same in this game he knows what's gonna happen he knows that he's gonna fail he knows that having children is gonna happen he knows that he's gonna eat while he is he has entered God status because he is you know right essentially come back to remake and so in that is exactly exactly so when he when he injects these these flashes of the future into the characters what would be the motivation of him to do that considering that almost at no point when he does that to the characters does it influence the scene or action they're currently in at that point in reaming so it's like why why isn't he what if he's if he has why isn't he going to these other lengths right why is he why so anxious I think the timeline like it's it's such an interesting case are you ready okay let's hear it Sephiroth is [ __ ] with everyone all the visions that you experience are ones that you would want to avert he is feeding them to cloud [Music] appear are trying to stop Sarah they're always trying to stop several and we make this mistake the whole game that they're like trying to guide us on a path just trying to stop several just notice yeah and he's getting us to change plot for him okay so here three evening cloud come his tool and yeah that's what that's exactly what he does in the original ff7 love it no whispers at the end of the game ah the forms of kadaj laws and yuzu they are not Tifa barrett and cloud like people think they are they are the three remnants right yeah whisper harbinger there's only one thing in the game called harbinger is heavens dark harbinger ok the whisper is Genova okay if you assess the whisper it says in a chrétien of whispers the so-called herb is a fate this creatures appear when someone tries to hold s knees course they're connected to all the threats of time and space now an accretion is a coming together of now under the influence of gravitation to form larger bodies right the Genova reunion project yeah the reason that this future Genova Whisperer is so big is because the reunion project succeeded okay and then you've got these three remnants of Sephiroth trying to protect their timeline which is Advent Children and I agree completely yeah yeah every wolf has played us all game and Aerith he's played everyone into like changing his destiny and that's why when you mentioned that scene at the end and it looked like the scene where Jack zakat shop I think yeah that is a froth stabbing us in the back because he got exactly what he wanted we didn't change our future we changed his and we don't know it we don't realize what we've done it's the whole reason why Sephiroth is like literally inviting cloud like I'm gonna I'm gonna Virgil cut this hole in time and he's like hey come on and then Aerith Aerith essentially is like no we all need to go in there right we all we all to do this the whole point is by the time you get in you realize that Sephiroth has already [ __ ] everything up right you're at this place where time doesn't really matter anymore but by the time you're in there it just seems like oh we're fighting weird Kingdom Hearts things which you're literally fighting as manifestations of Genova and Sephiroth like that's why we guy summon Mohammed because in Advent Children the remnants summoned Bahamut it was lately how how familiar are you with Advent Children I want you remember the three stupid kid [ __ ] that are like don't cry and all this dumb stuff right yeah yeah yeah we can we can argue forever that that movie is not great are just I love ff7 and I can't defend the only way you can watch it is to watch like the two-hour plus version and it kind of makes sense but barely so all we can pull from it is actually some of the critical story elements that Sephiroth lives like cellular he's a memetic legacy he has these three forms of himself that aren't him that want to be him and need to get Genova to become sefirot that's why we see a cool fight scene right the whole gimmick is that by the end of the game when you go into that goofy portal you are you present it with these three dudes and everyone because of an IGN video thinks that its future representations of cloud Tifa and barrett because there's guns in store yes but upon if you just look at what they do they don't use the weapons in the same way that the weapons and how their use is exactly like the Advent Children the the what's are called the elements like the fires miking is the same elements as those characters they essentially have similar moves and then they make bahamut's so it's like okay it's pretty clear that by the time you get in here Sephiroth is incomplete or Genova is in complete control of the whispers right Sephiroth's influence has gone so far that at some point in the future all this [ __ ] is under their control like this giant Harbinger thing is by is by in turn Genova slash Sephiroth like it's what it is way in the future and it's just permeating throughout the whole planet it's a virus so if you're on board with that it's like set frozen fire you to kill all that he's inviting you to destroy this thing that you think you're like oh sick yeah like like just like strippin said oh sick we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna shed destiny we're gonna get away from this thing Aerith is freaked out by it Eretz freaked out because she's essentially getting visions from the planet of where this is going and she knows it's gonna lead to no humans she knows the planets gonna lead to Sephiroth being gone but still living in some way and then she thinks the only way that we're gonna get around this is by killing it so you do it feels like a good decision but underneath dude just like tripping says I don't think I think that's exactly Sepphoris plan he's manipulating time here at the problem he feeds you another vision to make you keep going kill it kill it keep killing it you're avoiding all these crisis you're doing all these things and so you do right and it's like even even when I read about Aerith when I said Aerith can like she would find her allies and she would share a piece of her memory you see that in this game right when she touches Marlene when she touches red 13 and they see something and they're immediately on her side and it's that same situation it is definitely the same Aerith or that same Aerith is influencing the original Erath and I think it's exact same for Sarah when you defeat Sephiroth in Advent when he's covered in black feathers the last thing he does he wraps himself on a wing a black feathers and disappears in feathers and they're present throughout the whole game you can't see seeing these black feathers that's the only time feathers are involved is admin children yeah it is yeah and this baton you can start strippin I just made an observation as soon as you defeat Sephiroth right and they had two creation and then you get teleported to this crazy like very like red universe light white universe like very a contrast II sort of thing cloud starts getting presumably not a flashback because those aren't really critical that's about clouds memories he presumably gets a flash-forward Sephiroth grabs his hand and says something along the lines of no not yet what's ever like the the future is yet unwritten like he's he's essentially preventing you from having visions of where this is going like new visions instead of ones of the old one he said only [ __ ] with you well though that that also implies that he's not the one giving them no no no it implies that he's control him because he stops them but he stops them but if he has to stop it he wouldn't know it's it was slowly started having all of that I think is what there's that what you two are saying cuz yeah so right right at the end right before right after you defeat Sephiroth and clouds sitting there easy sees them again and we can on the edge' creation this before they even before they even exchanged dialogue yeah it's you've been feeding all this stuff of the future like Advent Children futures original ff7 futures and then suddenly cloud has another premonition potentially of a new future because what did you just do you blew up the [ __ ] right it's dead so whatever visions of the future clouds gonna have are technically not written in stone Sephiroth doesn't want you to have that yet because he's he's like you're what's the damn time line of dialogue it's something along the lines of whatever the future is is not is like not a net to be he said something very direct that he doesn't want you to feel he's young man I think he's it's unwritten yeah like the planet is giving cloud these veterans you know as a sudden off from the devs we haven't come up with this yet that's so I honestly think some of that is true because you know we're talking about all this and this is maybe a discussion for the later half the show but with all this said just part to it just happened and like it continues down the Final Fantasy 7 path of like oh yeah we're gonna go down to the next city and then we're gonna go to if I could read 13 cuz me me and Sam actually talked about this a little bit after the game happened on Twitter but it's kind of like what would be great I think I think I speak for a lot of final phase to seven fans when I say my first giant fear after finishing remake was holy [ __ ] there's a chance that I'm not gonna experience everything I loved about the original in the remake and I felt the same thing like oh my god am I not gonna golden saucer am I not gonna meet Vincent like oh mercy you are yeah of course exactly exactly know what I'm thinking from the sounds of it is that the rest I mean the game ended pretty iconically right on the plane that's same kind of scene now things are definitely different and but the ghosts are defeated so in this case I I kind of think that's the some symbology of the dev saying like look brew remake you have broken the chains of what we're allowed to do you will still get your scenes you will still have your characters but we just gave ourselves the freedom or have a little bit more fun with it and most importantly most importantly this is where it gets interesting because now anything's gonna be a surprise for us because we have been given the expectations that men are no unexpected exactly so how they have the different exactly so maybe this time era that's gonna realize that she needs to stay alive cloud is gonna realize that Sephiroth is tied to him and that he's gonna die because we now have the host Advent Children Sephiroth who has significantly more knowledge about how things works if he imparts that knowledge unto cloud there's no question that's gonna change his decision-making an entire large events toward the end may differ entirely they may give the players the choice on this maybe that was the whole point about this you're gonna start choosing the story now you're gonna start deciding how this stuff ends up all the major pieces are gonna be there and all the major acts are gonna have their major conclusions and scenes but maybe now you are gonna decide more of that because now it is more unwritten sure the undoing of the fate no max yeah I completely agree how it seems like they're already setting up like then they set up a lot of [ __ ] right they set up a whole bunch in this game where cloud is having like visions he can see the future he he's doing things that don't make sense to the original ff7 timeline so just imagine him going forward into the next game him having visions of killing Aerith because that happens in the original seven he tries to kill Aerith at the temple of the Ancients practically or he beats her up it seems and then at the very before she eventually dies you as the player have to fight back right so it makes sense if like he's gonna be having these visions throughout the game and the game's gonna be teasing you with that you're gonna think that oh god and that's this is what I love about it right I love that this game has instilled to the player and into this story that you could save her right that was the last thing I hooked on to as well as like you know two hours then it's like wait a minute what if she lives right right as someone that loves storytelling I I'm eating the [ __ ] up because they have the ending of this game has set up into so many so many peep hearts and minds that finally after all these years this is going to happen we're gonna be able to save her my mana guarantee you I guarantee you they're gonna be they're gonna be doing that throughout the entirety of the next game they're gonna be setting up all this stuff of how you can save her but so they're just like but she's dead anyways [ __ ] you guys I think they're going yeah things spent the entire remake basically via gameplay mechanics via storytelling saying we have these this world as more control of its fate than it ever has like you we do not have to follow the same path we have defeated literal manifestations of what fate is like we have the power to change this if the entire second case or just be like but it's all the same anyway like that would be like that would be hilarious that the interesting thing is is that you know word like the hardcore right were the people that that dived into this [ __ ] headfirst for the casual player they'll get none of this just from playing the game especially if the game and so they have to somehow make it work for both parties I had a good observation about this like a few days ago of like who the hell if you have no idea what ff7 is or if played at door no crisis score who the hell is this dude that looks like cloud with black hair what is going on have you do you were do you remember ever feeling that way and the original seven when you see the picture who the hell is this guy this clown here is the cloud wannabe guy what's going on so my issue with this is that I don't agree with the way the game dumptrucks you with all this stuff in the end I don't agree because what happens at the end of this game unlike the old one we're gonna have flex three years dude three years to answer these questions in the original ff7 when you get the picture and you're like confused who is this guy what's going on your your emotions are compromised in the next three hours because you sort of learn right you go through clouds mind prison and you're essentially answered three hours in the old game three years with this one but I they're doing they want you to ask these questions they want you to be like curious that's why that's why I call I kind of called Zach like the Nick Fury it's it's more like a tease of what's happening in in the future and what's going on with context it's like crazy right but at the same time I don't think it devalues the experience if you haven't seen the original it's confusing absolutely and I don't agree with the way it's handled but I don't think it ruins part one it just sets up with like where's that going yes we even have those questions now you know and it makes people go and find out those answers I mean I think that I think that was the most present when the tower is falling and they're like here's a cat that looks really [ __ ] weird for a split second and then yeah Hiro mentioned apart from like one little lines earlier in the game like it's like no more they're like yeah did you see how was that I had you I'd a few community members that had never played the original and I'll never forget when I finished the game when I just get a whisper for someone so who was the they never went back to it oh my god amazing moment of this tower falling super mostly invested Boomkat two seconds and get out and now we're back to like oh my god all this people just died like when we're getting flashbacks about about bigs and them surviving just like somebody said earlier I wouldn't be surprised if we see him like swoop in and start saving people or do some magic like yeah I bet you that's civically there is a bookmark and we'll revisit it later it's like oh remember this scene every when we flash that little cat well here's everything that happened isn't there lines in the final original Final Fantasy 7 work 8 saved or lost someone in the tower right like he lost his well it's Reve its reef it's really controlled mostly controlling in this game in a VR helmet but they made or some yeah that's all you got it and Reva's Reve already has a ton of great character development but that that reveal is like one of the big reveals of what Kate said is later on that ease your essentially got a Shinra man on the inside right okay yeah we talked about character development dude because when I played the original 597 the only downside I had was that I couldn't really fall in love with a lot of the characters and in this game they often it was all incredibly well done yeah Aerith flame was like a kind of a bland plot device and now I she's in she's amazing I think it says something that like cloud might be the most uninteresting character out of everyone in this and in the real [ __ ] yeah like everyone else blank old lady yeah these blanks lady yeah I think it works well because everyone else has this like star cancer comparison like Barret is this like aspiring like sort of knowledgeable guide that is extreme in many ways and tief is the exact opposite of that she like you know she cares about everyone dude can I just say like the themes in this game like the theme of the original ff7 is about like life right like it's about life and an intern death that's the theme of the whole game but I really feel like the theme of Final Fantasy 7 remake part one is that the world is it black and white and our characters have this description throughout the whole thing that just because Shinra is the bad guy not all of Shinra is the bad guy they do create jobs a lot of people lives have gotten better from this it's the question of like do we have a bigger motive behind all of our actions and they explore that all the time there's literally a piece of dialogue where Barret is screaming about Shinra and cloud says what's it like living in that black and white world of yours and Barret responds with it's gray there's room for one of one more yeah he's like if you want to join and clouds like I'll think about it and so much throughout this game like you get to see that all the people that work in Shin were going through absolute hell trying to help people out while the guys at the top are comically bad right they're calm yeah like that the executives of simra outside of one dude it's so comically evil and they make all the people that are below them grounded normal people I I love it about this game how they explore the moral gray area of ff7 and Shinra yeah was also really good about that too oh yeah there's a lot of what we're saying I said I was going to say like Tifa is like in the extremist group but not willing to do what they do and that already is just like it was so much development yeah yeah she was not against it but she was just like not a part of it essentially it was like there must be a better way without killing innocent people she's so committed to that and so committed to his his agency and and getting it done it no matter what the cost I want to go back I took the stairs because I'm a true fan what happens in the elevators is it the elevator I did the elevator and then I went back and took the stairs the stairs are funnier all right we cool about the elevator the first couple floors you just get stopped and there's some fights okay but then well the third stop I think door opens and all of a sudden you know they start fighting and it's just a woman and she's just standing there and they're all just kind of staring at each other for a minute and then the door closes they keep going and then the next floor a the doors open and the three main characters are just chilling in the back and this guy just gets in on his cell phone and it's a dude I think talking to his mom and he's like yeah you know I'm scared too and there's just like real conversation this dude is having and they ride up another floor he gets out he's like yeah you know I miss you too and he just kind of walks off and they're just like yeah sometimes shinra's not full of like oh look just like max was saying they're all just kind of like yes sometimes generous just people trying to get by and you know that that's another face of shinra's so it really kind of humanizes the whole darker element of the the kind of global evil that is represented by the maku kind of dissemination of Shinra so yes yeah it's it's really cool man they do a really good job about that and this being like Jesse's parents who lived in the shinra's housing yeah tell about a dad but they like you know yeah that's [ __ ] up heartstrings you know like pull some heartstrings on all of that for sure yeah just mentioned it how they handle Jesse in this game how she feels that she's essentially responsible for the tragedy when you know as the player that it's not Jesse dies believing that she's the one that caught all of this and she takes it with we're all the way to like the end and that's that is just used as like an extra level of Jesse's like you know emotional responsibility to just tug your ass all the way until you know she's gone yeah it's so good dude and I think because of that it makes me more excited for all the stuff that we expect to happen later on in Final Fantasy 7 because if they did this job or this good of a job with the smaller stuff and this yeah the bigger most really right like how they gonna make stuff Moochie iconic moments that are coming up in the future of this franchise and it's gonna be so interesting to see how they like set pieces that were mind-blowing back then I mean I'll be blunt I I played the original a long time ago and Biggs Jesse those characters those were always side characters to me like they were they were very small parts of that game in fact when I was playing to remake I didn't even remember who lived and died like I just didn't remember at all but now sitting there oh my yeah yeah see I didn't remember that and then and then playing through remake you get such a more visceral connection to these people they go from like side elements to friends in the game like actual characters that have their all their own unique personalities and you know Charlie Sheen is amazing in there as Biggs and do the whole thing is just phenomenal and the impact that they grew between original and remake it's so interesting to see what they're gonna do with other characters like that moving forward and seeing how much they're gonna grow them out and who they are gonna grow out the decisions they're gonna make and you know like who's an important character who's gonna get lived like the limelight that we're seeing and remake and who's gonna just stay that side character so and it's oh wow Wow it gets every time I think about this like it's super excited for the future seeing the trailers for the next one are gonna be mind-blowing well it's gonna go really right like I do completely agree a stripping like I think if if we could handle like dialogue in characters and like other square games from this point forward I like similar people that'd be great you know like it's like it's like a big part of Final Fantasy as a like an identity Kingdom Hearts they have their identities right and they feel like they are the way they are so they keep portraying those games as such even Final Fantasy 15 to an extent but it feels like sevens a jumping point the characters act real like it's it's honestly one of the reasons why Resident Evil from this point forward after resonable seven characters curse like crazy right they have all these like very aggressive like language and they I feel the only reason that's happening in this game too is to try to humanize the characters a bit right they're trying to make them sound more like real people in many ways like let's dance [ __ ] like all this like super funds like action exactly exactly exactly and the crazy part is that I do agree with you JP at the end it becomes video game dialogue and suddenly it's like completely different but I think it's I think it's like intentional because there's there is stuff that let leads up to the end but damn did that dump truck rolls in at chapter 18 and just goes poof yeah what's going on and he drives away what you deduce things I think it's dripping on the biggest fear and I said this as soon as I finished the biggest fear I had or I have rather is that they go lastly too far and it becomes Kingdom Hearts 3 where they have to like tie in all this [ __ ] that they made themselves just so they don't like get called for forgetting or just like like what if we never see what's the [ __ ] bike guy we saw him once and I really liked the scene he was a little bit annoying but I liked this thing we never saw him again what if he just never he toes up again because they have so much why we do in the game why would he leave mid god yeah right unless we might look lean because he saw like this adverse area that he wants to constantly keep fighting and they go that path but like it's the fear of what already happened to another franchise happening to this franchise is exactly what I went when you say people are involved for yeah I I know you understand this better than most because you are a very big fan of King Hearts and I think we're already seeing it like with the fact I just give you guys all these ending stuff and this was like end chapters of a side novel that just shed a bunch of light on this game like you can see no more as influence in having to explore every element of the Final Fantasy 7 and thankfully they made a game good enough that people want to do that I've got multiple friends that didn't play the original and after beating this game they're like the ending confused me and now I'm gonna go play original form by c7 so I can bandit baron they all went like it was like three or four of them they all went and played it one of them is already on Crisis Core she loved find fuzzy sevens much and she just fell in love with the world maybe that was their intention yeah it's really hard there's like a key down on this you go through everything yeah I feel like there's a big difference between like the the Kingdom Hearts fear right because like the worried that we're gonna go down this rabbit hole right and you're gonna fall at the rapid level there's a canyon I I think that I think Square has like burned a lot of people over the past like long time with a lot of their games like then the Final Fantasy's and what happened to Final Fantasy 15 like I love Final Fantasy 15 royale right but when that came out I couldn't even I was like you know what this none of this makes any sense they said they're gonna patch it I'm gonna wait and I waited a year and I actually liked the game quite a bit yeah but when it comes to like a lot of their other projects they come out so like where are we going what's happening like this why doesn't this make any sense and that's why this game comes across as kind of a breath of fresh air because 95% of the game is cohesive the characters make sense the characters feel real the mechanics in like the world all have that square enix slash square soft feel that it all looks good and it sounds good and it feels good this is weird right this is weird and then suddenly you get boom that dump truck shows up my only my only thing I have to like remind some friends that are so jarred by this ending which I don't agree with I think the ending is the thing that sort of bugs a lot of people at the end of this game of a worry of where they're going yeah why would they take the 95% element that works so good and just not do it in the next one you know yeah yeah you make right I don't even think they're gonna do more of it I still think there's gonna be five to 10% that's gonna be new wacky sort of crazy [ __ ] like sort of the way the end of this game sets up however if they set it up in a way that's not like the dump truck you know set it up in a way that makes more cents and drip it out to us instead of move then that's that's gonna be way better place don't know how things are gonna happen the game ended and I said this exact day man I'll say and kind of double damn like this game made me appreciate simple storytelling with good stories and video games like I look back at God of War I'm like wow they told like that's it's actually so unbelievably well done what they did with that game in comparison to this and if they can somehow like tell that batshit crazy stuff exactly what you just said back send like a drip feed that is easy to understand and not necessarily easy understand but not just like a giant swath like here's every [ __ ] egg in the last five hours of the game if they can either like course of the game and make it coherent and make it not have to [ __ ] read a book after a movie that was like make sense of it all that'd be amazing right but at the same time it feels like intentional because we're having this conversation they want to give you something to do in the next three years oh well also they want you to play the next one so they can't give you a resolution they have to make it yeah like a little bit convoluted they have to make you be like what the [ __ ] now I gotta play the next one like 95 percent that was you were that from the original was was incredible it was amazing it was more developed in some cases there were a relationship some weren't even there but now it's like not only do we have all of that we've got this entirely new element of the unknown so it's almost like they're getting the best of both worlds you've got the kind of this unsaid promise where it's like look we can deliver the original in a really entertaining and amazing way but not only are you probably gonna get more of that but now there's this entirely second element of it's like but we might do something crazy - and you have no idea what it is children and it's like you have no clue what that means you have no you have no [ __ ] idea I don't even have any [ __ ] idea but it's gonna be awesome and you're probably gonna like it so as long as they can keep that somewhat cogent and and not just go to off the rails with it like one thing that this is going to kind of force them to do is they're going to have to revisit some Advent Children stuff moving forward especially with the feather drops and everything like I mean that is that is that is completely connected to Advent Children yeah so we are now gonna get probably a lot more connective material to that probably going to get some type of insight on how he was able to pull back this time why it was this time in particular why wasn't it earlier maybe he actually went back in Zach's time first and maybe that whole thing around the the place was Zach maybe that was an entirely different part of the story we haven't been told yet and maybe influence those events if eclis to lead up to where they are now or to create some alternate timeline to have them you know so this this opens the door to not only for them being able to well profit off of the original remake but now they send a magic universe right correct yeah they're they're basically making a new universe out of an old universe and a universe more important you're not constrained with like they can and can go so many directions with this the worry is how they handle it like those areas like the worries like are we going everything if they explain everything to like them under my new detail then I'm gonna [ __ ] hate it like if they explain by putting in the black feathers the creating the concrete connections that we're talking about we're worried they're not gonna have by putting in the by using the music scores that line up almost perfectly by using the black feathers they're creating that connective that tissue between these these different stories that are making it so the people that really look into it will be able to formulate like actual concrete connections to what the story is and not just have it be about a metaphysical fluff that doesn't make a lot of sense at the end of the day yeah looking at some do don't give any on the minute an Orion solution I don't want me to chlorines yes but but in this case they're providing the material for those like max who live and breathe this stuff and can see between the lines and stripping as well who can find these little stories that are basically like road maps to where this stuff goes and it's kind of like by putting all that together you can come up with an actual cogent story they're just not smacking you across the face with it they're giving you the tools to do it instead of not providing any of the tools and making you assume a lot of it which I feel was the problem with Kingdom Hearts a lot of they would they would get so far from alluding to what actually was right that there were so many different things that could be right that it just at the end of day it was like I just take a dart to a dartboard and you know multiple things that makes yeah but because little hints they're giving us the blueprint we have to actually build a foundational story that makes sense in the world my personal opinion is 157 was a fantastic story it was a tragedy and they fell short in two areas Sephiroth and his influence and his involvement and like the characters emotions and this time they have a chance and I think this is what they're doing they're gonna put Sephiroth in control I think that was what this whole game and ending was about was like we just inadvertently gave Sephiroth the [ __ ] driving seat yeah he's gonna drive a tragedy for us and now we get to like see all these fantastic characters experience this tragedy properly and I think we are still gonna see a lot of some elements I think maybe you know several who'll try and tell cloud hey you don't want to let earth die and it's gonna be like no I need to write like where are we gonna go with this but I think they're at home watching already put Sephiroth in control put the villain at the forefront and lent let him play his puppet strings and do whatever else he wants well a whole point at the end of seven was Sephiroth wanted to expose the lifestream wholly and fully via meteoric emerge with it so the basic thinking would be that he would want to recreate that and actually rewrite history to have him accomplish his ultimate goal which would would be that ending do you think they're going to all of the events right up to that endpoint kind of like they did with remake and then right at the very end have everything explode into a bunch of new stuff or do you think the entire journey is gonna be angled around this new introduction of post Advent Children Sephiroth changing the story fundamentally to get to his his new point so like is it is it is it gonna be culmination point that then everything changes like remake or everything is just going to go batshit crazy now that he's in control I personally think that the way this game sort of handles like the reverence of Final Fantasy 7 the references the nods you know the emotional beats the notes the way they enhance everything I think the whole goal of all this weird [ __ ] and like timeline stuff is just to enhance right they want to take the things that you remember of the original ff7 and amplify the [ __ ] out of it like my my I took a while to come to some of these conclusions about wiser so we don't know what the hell is Zach doing in this alternate timeline why are they introducing an alternate timeline and the whole point I feel behind a lot of this [ __ ] happening is that we need to enhance a moment which is what's the next biggest moment in ff7 is obviously Aris death so what if Eric's death not only happens to cloud again like in current game what if it also happens to Zach what if two characters that are like super important yeah like right maybe I don't I don't like how they handle it I don't want to see like you know a split screen shot of cloud and Zach going you know like that's not how you do it publication that zach is around somewhere that zach and Aerith are important to each other if they can establish that and then you realize that this is happening to the cloud but it also happened to Zach that everyone loses Aerith no matter what you do no matter how hard you try that has like enhanced the moment suddenly suddenly it hurts even more because she was just as important to them as they are to us well if they flipped that scene and this time Aerith dies and zach sees rain right they could just do [ __ ] anything and there's already that there's sort of a comparison not like as Zach has taken clouds life in his alternate timeline just the way this way cloud took his life like or is living his life as I mean so they're already doing sort of like these comparative scenarios yeah I still can't get over the fact that like it this the symbolism of killing the plot ghost and killing all those things and and freeing ourselves from the chains that were holding us to the original timeline it's still gonna be so strange to me if we go down the original timeline I feel so much like that is the developer staying look we've broken the chains you literally just spot a giant towering boss proving to you that we don't have to do what we did before but we're doing what we did before yes I it's gonna be weird it'll be weird like I don't get me wrong be cool and I and I and I and I and I if Eric doesn't die even weirder let me say that that'd be weird it'd be weird it would be weird for me a ferritin died that was such an iconic thing in seven but I mean that that was one of those things that that really made you feel in games back in the day like that was an impactful serious thing that happened at least it was for me not for everyone but yeah sure to have that not happen in something that's Final Fantasy 7 it just it's it would be it'd be such a conflicting event to have happened what if they like fully flip the script where like you know the scene I love it where the scene adds up right and like Aerith is like this seems about to happen your childhood memory is in front of you and then at last second like clouds [ __ ] sword or something drops in the way of Sephiroth right like it happened okay what you just that is exact like I'm expecting them to be like oh look it's just like it had to be you killed fate they know like do it for you you'd rather die holy pops out and the sword hits the holy thing and shatters it and then you're like Aerith lives but there's no more holy you know yeah I think I think taking that a moment and like moving it right like suddenly that isn't where she actually dies like maybe it happens somewhere else I think that's also a possibility like the whole sacrifice is moot the end of the game where she has to give herself to actually cause the event to happen instead of the materia you know but but even and that that I mean oh god see now how do you such that max it's like that would cover all the bases and she does die what they wanted I think the whole journey into the unknown I think the whole reason it's happening I honestly do is to make you to make the player feel like into the unknown and she gonna live right that's cuz that's the that's the event of part 2 guys what does what people want to say that golden saucer and red 13s back right back story and Barrett's cool back story of Anne Burrell like all the amazing [ __ ] see a big thing that's like part two is she gonna live it has culminated in that right like that's well right that's that's where the swell of all this shit's gonna be leading up until that moment like this is this is literally the snape kills dumbledore moment of Final Fantasy 7 right so what do we have to do to prevent people from like spoiling everything for everybody oh she's just gonna die like right we have to like lead there has to be something that they have to change that lead up to these events whether they happen or they don't happen and I think initially the big thing that they have to do is to instill at the end of the at the end of this game holy [ __ ] we don't know what's gonna happen but I still feel that we're gonna hit a lot of the same story beats the same way this one did we're so gonna go to we're so gonna get cloud is still set up as the unreliable narrator right we still don't know what's going on with him we don't know what happened at Nibelheim they teased it throughout the entire we don't know what he knows like everything is the same as the original game technically right now so I don't know like it feels like we're just gonna hit the same beats but they will they'll be enhanced right they're gonna be the cool front well yeah there's a cool element from the past as we read where I was like Sephiroth is missing a lot of himself and he I think especially in the first game we see he kind of follows clout appears everywhere cloud goes cloud looks it's Nova that Frost shows up to get Genova like cloud is in you know walking down the street all the peers in the other way next to him and I think he's following cloud and he's just learning about himself so I think we're gonna have this interesting bit in the behind where maybe he's like trying to get piece himself back especially if he's Advent Children Sephiroth and he lost a lot of like what made him initially him I'm excited to see that dude there's a couple strip and go though okay just real quick so something eater said was really interesting it made me wonder is Sephiroth somehow high cloud like because you did bring up a really good point that he keeps just manifesting around cloud it's different time and you know I'd said maybe maybe that cloud is some form of connection our conveyance that the future Sephiroth is using to get back into the past so maybe he's reliant on clout following that same journey oh he can interact with it from where were you know maybe said exist in the remake universe and he's simply using cloud as some sort of total anointeth oh great from his future timeline but maybe he's not even in remake at all but then that brings up the interesting point why is there that one specific scene where that shinra dude catches him in the hallway what was that purpose was that one purpose to show us that there is a physical and like corporal version of him that is walking around because at that point I think we were just entering the building you're not even there yet and then I also brings a question why was he walking the halls up there like what here why's he walking as we read he needs people to remember him to exist that guy knows him Palmer just another thing people talking look she settles in the building some of us here and as long as people remember him he can go every once he can use them to travel is essential travel at the end there's using like the clones as like that dude yeah so maybe that was the manifestation of a club yeah I don't know man I don't know maybe there's maybe there's the world and then the host remake version also interacting with that stuff so there's like that's an interesting obviously Sephiroth is still in the remake world as classic remade Sephiroth but then we have the introduction of this more advanced version of Sephiroth also interact now or guess now we're talking Kingdom Hearts because in the original game the same thing happened Palmer watches Sephiroth kill the president right he's there Barret grabs him and then Palmer's like freaking out but Palmer doesn't actually like watch the event transpire cuz the event transpires definitely because obviously since [ __ ] has changed but that that moment is pretty much the same as a direct take from the original Final Fantasy 7 yeah climber alighted witnessing it you mentioned that that scene I do want to talk about a bit about beareth not Bharath Jesus I just my Barrett Barrett dying do you guys think he actually died like was there a split second where it's like oh my god they killed Barrett I definitely know me to news ago showed up I was like oh yeah the thing that got me was the same smoke went into the president asked when I questioned it because when he stabs the president the smoke is also present mmm like a weird whisper smoke yeah but the president is dead so there was a brief oh well I was like oh I was not different from the first time he stabbed someone in that scene but then the ghost came out I was like oh we're good I'm gonna say really quick the reason like a lot of that weird whisper smoke is there most likely isn't due to like contextual story stuff it's ESRB cuz you're showing directly Hale meant what or direct impale Minh and I could say from working on games where it's some of that kicks in considering how much cursing and adult themes that are out throughout the game it might have kicked it to em so she's wide you know vote was purple and stuff really they're literally the reason it was red in the original right but also isn't it was black in like in Japan isn't that isn't blood like looked down upon or like frowned upon in terms of having that in any sort of media they depend China isn't it Oh like certain things like the capitation 's and things like that are sort of frowned upon okay depends on it depends on the game but yeah that League mode which I blood in in a game yeah I think the hope the Barrett death was probably just like another not to like Aerith when she fell off the banister in the church and a plot ghost Cotter like it was basically just saying like this is this is just another example showing the player like we're not going off the rails yet and we're not going off the rails because of these creatures and you kill these creatures at the end of the game following yet more that it's also sure Sephiroth Eze because sefirot is like essentially saying [ __ ] the plot goes I do what I want yeah yeah yeah like they don't they don't control me like and that's the ideas that he practically because we sort of revealed not too long after that that he technically is in control he's actually allowed to do this stuff and he's like directly [ __ ] with you as the player at that point do you call me lady really well yeah killed the one thing that was bringing them back to life at his bidding yeah yeah right yeah it's all it's all Sephiroth manipulating the [ __ ] out of you at the end of the game and that's what's yeah that's what I love about it because there bring it back this core element of what Sephiroth is he's like this master manipulator throughout the original ff7 just [ __ ] with all of our main characters all the way up until the northern crater like the gimmick co and you were mentioning the second ago what is Sephiroth like intention Sephiroth still needs cloud to deliver the black materia as his physical body like where his true power is his connection to the lifestream is still stuck up at the northern crater and even though his like mimetic legacy his cellular information has somehow gone back in time as seen the future has as as awareness has transmitted it to the point where he can sort of like manifest himself Sephiroth clearly is a net full power yet right he's he's got these Advent Children forms that he can take on through you know crazy clones and [ __ ] but he still needs that direct connection to the lifestream like he needs cloud to deliver the black materia and that's not the same events because it's like cloud heart is like a like a work of art it's Sephiroth is working on and everytime he provides one of those flashbacks every time we seem it's like it's like he's taking little chips and like molding him in an image that he said I'm gonna use to do whatever his final thing is I wouldn't be surprised if like at the end of this entire thing like the very last thing before Sephiroth dies he just smiles and he's like all this plan 2.14 6/7 it's gonna happen get excited coming out on the beta or something there's a bunch of [ __ ] like at one point arithmetic with firs are trying to steal her memories and these could very easily be the memories that she's inherited from her future era they're trying to get a piece of herself yeah and the really interesting thing I find is that initially only cloud can see Sarah right and as more people in his party begin to learn about Sephiroth you end up at the Shinra building where they can all see him yeah and I think it's just playing on that theme of like as more people know about him as you know who he is and you understand him he can manifest yeah yeah in front of you yeah I love all the little moments where it's like where the first time you see Sephiroth cloud grabs his left arm and they have this really specific shot of it like he's like a wracked with pain you don't see what he's feeling you don't see what he's visioning but they have this super close shot of him gripping his arm super hard it's the same arm that he has geo stigma and he never does that whenever he gets like pain but when he sees Sephiroth he feels geo stigma because it's that's what his plan is his plan is to infect the [ __ ] planet right right and we talk about Aerith yeah let me talk about how like era throughout the game is hyper aware like or she seems like at the beginning how she's like where you explain this because for me it only happens whatever you do don't you can't fall in love with me that line stuck with me so hard and for those who don't know there's multiple different scenes you can get when you when you have like the dream scene and the parent and I happen to get Aerith and literally Aerith it's like yeah it's been so much fun you've had such a big impression on me cloud like everything's good but just keep in mind you can't fall in love with and it's like why would you say that you know exactly what happened like you have fundamental knowledge of what's gonna transpire here you would never like oh my lord you that dad I know the life that I want to help come in she makes and stuff like that like as if she knows that she's gone expiration date like his yes super strong and the thing is she at the beginning of the game she sort of goes from freaked out of the the whispers and not knowing what they are and being intimidated by all this stuff it's it's this is like some level 7 like theory [ __ ] that some people have gone into that essentially era that the end of the original Final Fantasy 7 with her like yeah looking up and it's the same vision of her right after she cast wholly used the lifestream to save everybody from meteor is the same era that wakes up at the end of at the beginning of this game as that like the the ending of Final Fantasy 7 original sort of a premonition that all of ff7 og is like information the planet is giving to her in this in like in like an instant like 37 hour in that alleyway or whatever in that alleyway yeah and yeah and she and then but this time it's different she hears she feels Sephiroth right sephiroth's music is there there's like a music premonition that also was telling the player this is a different Final Fantasy 7 the crier he is here now yeah the choir case I've read that theory too and the only fundamental issue there is that would then imply the original didn't happen which would then imply the oven children didn't happen which would then imply that the Sephiroth we have and remake is not the Sephiroth from the end of a band children and so those are those are no be if it was like feeding all the information and it was just like a stimulation kind of deal because that's the one that I read where was basically like saying this is what could happen you need to prevent it Oh what could it have so like for the first ever to exist in Final Fantasy 7 are it is the Sephiroth post 7 children those events had to transpire he had created the odd sequence had to happen and he had to reform with these new powers to return to remake or the or he wouldn't be in this neutral I think that nation rule I think that's the point is that it hasn't happened yet right is that the plan is aware that this is what's going to happen I don't think all these events are going to transpire a theory works at all because yeah I'm not even completely different timelines but Eve even then like if when you're doing with different timelines there's still this certain element of you know if this doesn't happen then that can't exist and that's the only perspective I'm looking at this from now of course there'd be a lot I mean dealing with different timelines you can always come up with a way to fake it'll make some metal show yeah that would be that would be a little weird if that worked now something else that very much could happen is going from the stories that strip and just read about these peripheral souls that were like monitoring the different souls in the lifestream I mean there's absolutely no question but if Sephiroth key came out with some kind of power in the future to move his cellular version back to remake how was that viewed by the other cells the other people in the livestream at that point and could they have moved knowledge back with Sephiroth when he went back so they saffron Eric would never they never joined the live stream live stream life I just pray all along it right and so like for me it's like several have got his knowledge and air feels like [ __ ] I got to do that too and the planet isn't part of that right and that's what the whispers are is the planet trying to save its own it's like the last line of Defense's there at the screen of me doesn't work that the the lifestream would give air at these memories I think she gave herself those memories and I think the live stream is doing its own thing and trying to like mediate and do his own thing they like so everything on call future Aerith even though she doesn't manifest like future Sephiroth could be a potential player in future final phase 2 7 remake games maybe well is if they already showed that in this game cloud has a dream where Aerith is locked up and she starts dropping plot onto cloud you can't fall in love with me you can't do all this stuff if you want to come save me you can but it's almost like you think was like that urgent of Erath is technically her maybe it's almost like that's her from the future she just changed her name he's not there our game possibly I mean it's definitely likely but it's she definitely speaks in a much more aware fact of exactly what's gonna happen but even though like Aaron it's like it's like Aaron at the beginning of the story has like part one of the script and there's like 90 parts but by the end she's explaining you that like literally we're gonna go kill fate you know that she's like getting the information as the story goes along if you assess the harbinger at the end it specifically says that the whispers are connected to all threads of time and space the shape the planets fate so these is ghosts that are coming from the livestream that help stuff is totally feasible that several Daenerys can also traverse time and space that consciousness that was in the lifestream and just maybe you know join with their bodies in the present and just give them more information than they had before yeah I don't think they're necessarily though the same people I think those those post Advent Children people I think have the other influence that people in the people in the past they've given them knowledge they shouldn't have and that's the planet sort of like that's like like ties up with the last line of defense right like all that [ __ ] like okay nothing is right suddenly like everything is wrong with what's going on here everything's trying its best if they're like figure out what's going on and there's like elements of this game that are aggressive the plot goes sir aggressive and they're in your face so they're constantly doing this [ __ ] it's like the planets kind of bad at its job but at the same time there's also like the small hints like yes Efron showing up in cloud having visions of the future that are handled like super well so sure someone a chant mentioned something about the the line that Sephiroth says I think I think it's when they're unlike the edge of creation or in space or whatever what the seven seconds to live what do you guys think that it is that defined and what that actually references noise their theories it isn't against define okay what is it referencing cuz I definitely like the other things where I never caught on it's seven seconds before the end of the world before like the end of like before destruction so it's either seven seconds before meteor seven seconds before something happens to cloud but in the chapter select if you go back to it it says it's seven seconds before like like at the end of everything and like chapter 18 or something like that yeah it actually it's not it specifically says it okay specifically at the end of the game there was a lot of people going around saying that had something to do with with Aerith death scene like there's a seven I think for her to die in the original game or something like that yeah era that scene is like seven or thirty seconds just depending on where you cut it just the super weird convenient thing for people to someone to cut the clip to be seven seconds long ago look at this right okay it's like the parity fuh yeah yeah was that could we do that at the end of the team to like is is there a specific seven second block somewhere at the end of original that people have synced up to being like it's that seven seconds like do we do we have an actual concrete connection to seven seconds of something at some point in the game somewhere I mean I it's kind hard to say because they the game tells you what it is I think it's specifically left to be unknown what that's referring to like because the point isn't like what happens in seven seconds it's the choice that cloud makes seven seconds and what you'll choose to do with it is something what Sephiroth says so the whole point is that clouds gonna be given a choice at some point when he's on the edge of creation in the future that he has to make this choice is it going to be the choice Eimer yeah this game already set some choices all over the place right like more choices in the original ff7 has who's to say the next games won't have the same thing it's gonna be like sacrifice one of your party members for the rest of the playthrough seven do you think it was about me or and it wasn't like a specific in joke of there's definitely seconds for some I think everyone is chance pointing out I think why everyone thinks it pertains to the earth this scene from the original game was because the music from that area that that she dies in is playing what in remake when they're at the edge of creation so that's why I wrote thanks it nice - yeah the city of the Ancients theme is going there so maybe I think it might happen that's why I like there's there's so much stuff that is still like concrete can't give you any answers there's no evidence of where the hell they're going with this stuff I mean I think that's good yeah for sure oh yeah oh yeah it makes for some very interesting discussion yeah as long as they Kyle those [ __ ] puzzles or the sequel I'm I'm good right oh yeah something we all can agree on like the level design in this game is like archaic classic Square Enix vs level design right I think it's weird because like it they have to reference they did a really good job I think of writing line of like we want to make sure that people that play the original game see all this [ __ ] and enjoy all this [ __ ] while also not being in creating and having the same mistakes of a ps1 era game yeah and I think they did that for a large portion of the game the puzzles though were [ __ ] yeah it was busy work they were not exciting it did not work at all but they 20 20 year-old puzzles that they just thought you know we should keep it the same nostalgia yeah and it's it was 100% theirs yeah the reason they left that in there right and I can't even think of like I haven't I don't play all of screen it's games right but other many other big like Final Fantasy main headlines Square Enix games maybe Dragon Quest 11 that have level design sort of similar to me it kind of seems like this is a this is almost an identity of square to have like these sort of funky very easy weird in the way feeling levels instead of like giant interactive let me anyways risen Resident Evil kinda does the same it might just be like Japanese game design maybe cuz like Resident Evil had a lot of a similar [ __ ] and all of its remakes right that we're just annoying and not necessarily like good puzzles but in terms of like like from soft who's like the greatest of the [ __ ] so I think that's my big like gripe in this game the world it doesn't have enough interactivity like I want to fightin it more I want to I just want to do things in the world war there's a lot of walking and talking the only the only thing that cuz this game is essentially Yakuza right they just took Final Fantasy 7 and Yakuza and they're like yeah okay so let's let's present our characters in that way with an extreme fashion or it's not our characters and situations and areas like the same way y'all cuz it does and I think that works extremely well the only the only problem is that all those areas the only thing you have to carry you is the characters and they're good the great music write characters music and combat if that wasn't as good as it is those would be glaring issues like yeah huge issues of the game but it [ __ ] low cross comes up oh my god I think that like in some ways the idea of having a mini-map does a disservice to the game because it shows the player that you're literally just walking down straight lines and another one like otherwise beautiful area but you're just walking down corridors it's like Final Fantasy 13 syndrome yeah but for you in a sense people describe it done well yeah yeah I saw that a lot I thought what we're gonna say color I think like it was kind of interesting because I feel like a lot of that was throwback like if they were to make like big giant complex levels like they weren't really like that in seven so it would have been kind of out there yeah yeah I agree this we're so beautiful at times like just walking around trashing those gorgeous and like city's hallway it looks so good you just could push forward the slightest bit on the stick and just like exist walking down some of these like giant pathways and and I love that about it I loved how it kept like a lot of the simplicity the original but stuff that you just would have run through because it was like single color textures you know in the original this time it was like yeah perfect example of like a walking and talking moment that is like amazing right after cloud gets that vision right of the future and he sees like yeah the tear and all that stuff right and he's like forget it let's go you start walking and this music kicks in and you're just walking at night through this area that you haven't seen at night before and then they start casually talking about like what's happened with Midgar how Aerith feels about Midgar what's going up on the plate and there's this very very small conversation they had before Aerith is like well that's woolmarket it's [ __ ] awful I don't want to go that way I don't like that place and just that little in-between is so good like and it's carried by the music it's carried by the characters like if the game didn't have that stuff and today amazing visuals if it didn't have this up this would be a big issue but I think it isn't a huge issue because of all the other apps aspects that are just exemplary totally I agree I've been walking on the rooftops and learning about Aerith as you walk with such a good way to you know personality of this characters very well done it was just like wait hold on was I the only person there was I the only person who let her hang there for 24 hours and streamed the next day everyone came over streaming they were like wow she grabbed the ladder she out [ __ ] and JP left today I ended my stream they should have put a nod in there if you leave it on for eight hours like she literally is like I'm still gonna die there's another scene too where you have to I think it was after the crane puzzle thing where you have to like pull her up a ladder I also ended the stream there as well so I did it twice I've had her with the hand I was like [ __ ] f Rona's good a reference there what was that co-op just saying you're terrible I had a big question for you guys regarding uh where the hell all this [ __ ] is going like in the next game that's not just story stuff how many of you guys agree that part two is going to be large environment quote-unquote open-world Final Fantasy 15 style I hope so because of the evolution of the ps4 like I'm hoping that the hardware makes that possible that they can do what they did with Final Fantasy 7 remake and make it open world but I'm also fearful because like development time is but like that's insane to put that part act for six months you want exactly like seven nothing else like seven I want a beautiful transition world map system with a really cool way to go in and out of it randoms nights on the map zoom into iconic locations that then have their own like I don't giant redevelop indoor area I guess a if they were dramatically changed that system I feel like that would be too much I don't know things that do that dragon quest 11 do that like pretty similar to original ffs yeah it's like the same thing right like you're a little character walking around a big world you get on fights yeah I mean that maybe maybe I think cuz of the I think you could do it like what they've proven to remake is they can take the blueprint of the original and they can make tasteful like good Curel style adjustments to it bring it in now of course you know Here I am saying I want it to be like the original IB surprises they deviate but then all you have to do is look at the combat system and obviously they have no problems deviate major mechanics right there's a very good chance that we're doing it well lately different it's 15 was a test engine for seven remake what I think the thing remake no it I'd be so I've been world but it's really constrained open world if you think of it yeah like I like world it's like exactly it's like it's the instance open road it's it would not have the st. like in in Final Fantasy 7 you get like world traversal like you actually get to like fly a button into this into this vehicle and then go wherever you want and freaking fly over the ocean and explore islands and stuff like that so they're gonna need a new system it gets that same feel of like I'm traveling right now I'm not just going in a flying car and getting from one into the map to the other a few minutes like I am actually traversing large amounts of distance going to different biomes in some cases like completely different styles of vegetation and land moisture you know it's like going from arid to jungle and stuff like that you're not gonna be able to do that properly and that constrained kind of feel of a Final Fantasy 15 system so they're gonna need something to move the while you're extremely large yeah doesn't doesn't the the the recent information regarding next generation how SSDs are gonna be able to that's what is that data so fast maybe that's like a big thing that Square would want to tackle like because they square likes to tackle things right they like to they like to get into the meat and bones of tech no hardware cell need yeah that's kind of the thing I I feel like that's the whole that's the whole point is that on next generation we can have a giant open world like Final Fantasy 15 not quote-unquote open world big big big large areas non real world that isn't going to be held by the constraints that Final Fantasy 15 has which is the crystal tools engine right it's an engine that was largely had a [ __ ] ton of problems but they still managed to make it work in FF 15 but they're gonna have access to like Unreal Engine Unreal Engine is gonna have access to all the new crazy data streaming that is that is way different that's like the big bowl it's gonna be different is loading and data streaming that's what it seems like that sort of is like well okay people they can't make the same game cuz Final Fantasy 7 remake has so much [ __ ] slow down walked between pipes because we're loading every layer all running issues we're gonna I can't do that that's good think about how large the golden saucer location is so if they were to stick that into like a persistent map they would then have to make content for all the outlying area around it new actual moveable content between every location out there and about like I the amount of extra stuff they would have to actually create and add to the world to make some kind of persistent map system outside of iconic locations would be almost in the same level of content they'd be doing just with the locations themselves so it seems kind of already gonna take so long so it seems like having some kind of system outside of those locations to move around kind of like seven dip at the map system it seems like a no-brainer if you think about it it'd be true to the original as well it would be yeah yeah yeah but what if what if they approached it with the same linearity that the original has like the original ff7 gives you the feeling that you're in this giant open world but you really can only go what what do you think I'm bound by what do you what are you bound by in the original seven your lack of vehicles your rack of transportation so if they just do the same thing where you only get access to chocobos chocobos can't go up mountains chocobos get through the marshes maybe in the new one you have to fight the snake on a different level I don't know like but that if they oh the same way now here's an idea what what if they were to make it like hybrid where it's like those those crystal cave sequences those were fully developed fully developed new times right fully developed new things but then they take out like the airship section they take out the world map random fight stuff and they make that just some kind of like cinematic jaunt where you just pick a location on a map plays a go and you tell them a mix of 80 or the game or at the end of the game you're basically looking at a giant world map of all the locations you can explore and you're just like selecting where to go and that way they could like fully developing on foot locations and all this stuff where you're moving your player around the map between places those would be Final Fantasy 15 style fleshed out locations yeah they don't end up in style like all these elements would be the best way to do it right a little bit of the original seven so maybe some ff10 stuff in some ways maybe take big zones and stuff like that in Final Fantasy 15 but try to like marry them with new technology right just give players access to something I think the whole point is that they want people to experience that feeling right the feeling of leaving the Midgar for the first time of being like wow there is a big whoa look at all this crazy [ __ ] you know like I think that this is gonna be a big goal of theirs for part 2 that's gonna be hard right cuz it was like Athene where you it's the word Final Fantasy 7 remake starts and this your party is standing in front of like a long road or something out of mid yards like that is a very different feeling to parties they have to recreate for people that played oh and then they have to make it for new people huge brain theory here's a huge brain theory and this is just like predictions right I have this very lucky batting average that I completely called how all everything that's gonna happen in ff7 remake super early on like when they first announced this game I'm like first parts gonna be Midgar they're gonna end right at the end of the freeway it's gonna be like a lord of the Rings ending we're start big journey yadda yadda yadda huge brain theory is that part two is Sephiroth and cloud and a couple of Shinra grunts in the back of a truck bouncing up and down at the beginning of the game at the beginning in the game is you already in the me behind flashback and it's reline flashback you you play a Sephiroth sefirot teaches cloud editorial yeah that Satori smart for sure and and then right after that you leave calm and you're like oh let's go on our journey like that like tomorrow we're leaving we're gonna go to the chocobo farm and see if we can get transportation and then this ninja girl shows up and she Jack's all your stuff yeah and she takes all your material handling they already touched her with the Tifa comment in the bar where he says it's uneven five years and she's really confused and they never went back to it yeah they never touch that so Tifa tries never crowd on what's going on like do you not remember what happened are you okay like they're already touching on it I love it dude yeah way to start it for sure cuz it's great way to tutorial eyes the player into it it also makes for a Jew players Leia's Sephiroth yeah it also makes for new players to like understand the characters understand what's happening without having played the first remake although it's probably heavily suggested that would be because then at that point it's like which Sephiroth would that be that you're playing be past well yes new Sephiroth start influencing this somehow that'd be cool that's how they take it well I I think right the first time you see Sephiroth after that is when you go and you try to cross the marsh and you run into the snake and the snake is impaled it's crazy powerful that's that's what's gonna be like you're you're essentially following his trail I forgot about that seeing it yeah a nibble han flashback could be the perfect way for several to learn it by himself to if we establish from those readings they doesn't know that stuff anymore right it could open that door it's a lot that cloud is piecing this stuff together like then and teep is gonna have her own conflict of just like the original game is like that she's like that's not how it happened I am concerned about cloud and this is a huge brain theory of yours because the last thing we saw was Zack and people gonna be like who the [ __ ] is that and then we immediately meet Zack in the second game dude that would work perfectly but then apply I don't think it's gonna be I don't I don't think Zack will be in that flashback I think the flash shock will be exactly the same ways in the old game where cloud I think so journey doesn't want to reveal himself yeah yeah I think that's the whole like the right there so gonna set up for the big reveal that no cloud lost Zack right and then eventually adopted his personality like the mind prison moment of ff7 which is a big part of the original game I don't think you can take away that cuz they're already leading up to the Tifa stuff that Tifa has to be the one to essentially save cloud right like all that [ __ ] has to sort of try to know all right there was a theme that happened in this game and I [ __ ] pissed me off because I feel like it didn't do it justice it was it's the scene where Tifa and cloud a kids and they're on the water thing yeah and he's talking about leaving and like I feel like they removed so much vulnerability from cloud in that scene and like it wasn't as good as the original scene and they kind of like took some of that way so I don't know how much they want to lean on well close in on fable basket case because I feel like they didn't do that scene just this really well it's it because of where it took place they say but they put it in like later right before a boss fight for some reason class feels like a right engine and also like the dialogue is a bit different and like cloud isn't he doesn't in the original to me he came across like an outcast and in that scene he comes across as like hey I'm leaving made God like all the other guys I'm gonna be a soldier and she's like cool make a promise and it didn't really feel like he was like always weird having that flashback those clouds clouds having that flashback maybe we see a tip of version of flashback and it's different yeah I think that's I think a part of that is like interpretation right like how you feel about that moment cuz that's a big moment in the original cuz it's not voice then there is no right so maybe no what I took away from that scene was very different and they intend your internal and I do agree with you it feels different it does feel different you know flap or words and flashbacks quick quick side topic but I actually have forgotten about this entirely so hopefully you guys can help me out here someone just asked this in chat as well and this is kind of a good forum to touch on this real quick in someone explained the significance of cowgirl Tifa picking up Sephiroth sword in those flash or word I'm assuming they were where was that again that's in that's in the Nibelheim incident behind what that is the name of I'm incident yeah yes that's okay okay it spoilers it's kinda bothered yeah killed tifa's father okay and they also dude they also amplify the [ __ ] out of the neighbor hime incident that ensuing that Sephiroth murders clouds mother which and they don't they don't give you any answer for that in the original game right you don't even know what the hell happens to clouds mom yeah you know it is you have this flashback with cloud and his mom but you don't know like so wait a minute we're at Nibelheim and Shinra covered up the entire incident and there's fake people living here what the [ __ ] happened to the original people that were living here what's going on I think that's what they're going to explore a bit more because they already alerted that yes uh froths was straight murders clouds mother yeah and kills tifa's father and all this stuff it's gonna get way worse can we also talk about how they kept awful clothes on Tifa that look completely [ __ ] ridiculous original before the next one comes out his item probably worth I when I played the first the Midgard warrior day when I played the Midgard portion I talked about it ten-year-old me did not recall or do not like make a mental note that like aliens are involved in this store references like cosmic horror stuff and there's a lot of like connection to the universe sort of things that Bugan Hagen sets up like I cannot wait to get to [ __ ] red 13's hometown and talk to Bugan Hagen because this dude's gonna know everything right so much information yeah he's still gonna be cryptic about it he's not gonna tell you hey what's he gonna look like though because in the og he just doesn't have [ __ ] legs it's gonna be like is he gonna be cross-legged and they just couldn't do that like at the time so they just cut his legs off like what what does he look like I mean but max the reason I mentioned Zack is because there's that hidden nipple hime scene where it kind of zone back to Hojo and they're in the VATS yeah and they go and I just wonder if they're gonna like put it all together at the same time yes the question is when do they put that stuff together like are we gonna because you're gonna set up the rightful later yeah how'd you arrives right off to Sephiroth leaves yeah and then does this reunion project and sauce injecting people in the behind numbering them so yeah it's gonna be weird why that will then or if they just stick to the flashback thing of the oath of the flashback in the old game is that flashback very conveniently for the sake of plot cuts off at a crazy moment and it's writen before cloud kills Sephiroth cloud doesn't remember anything else and teep is like and everyone else in the party is like what that's it what happens after that and he's like I don't remember you likewise it's horribly that's satisfying because like I don't know and I are they connect are they gonna do that again like that's that's the big question is that I they decide to leave and they specifically do that because right after Hojo shows up right yeah puts puts cloud and Zack in vats reunion project starts like all this super critical stuff happens and that's how the first game sets up cloud is the unreliable narrator so literally like he's so bad at telling the story of ff7 and the big question is that thinking is set up the unreliable narrator aspect you know it seems like they are to be honest because he still is he's still telling he still has the one flashback in this game of himself when he falls into the church and he gets like himself talking to himself like the actual cloud talking to him is that you okay can you move your legs you feeling alright and you get fake cloud talking back yeah yeah yeah putting on the persona I love that that's still there cuz you know it makes no [ __ ] sense right now love yeah because in the original game you're just as confused it that's why the big revelation of ff7 isn't the fact that Aerith dies the huge fantastic revelation of the story of this game is that as what cloud goes through of like the horrible mental trauma that has been put through and like the physical abuse that he goes through to the point of which he thinks he's a different person and he puts on a persona to hide his emotions like it's one of the greatest themes of ff7 and if they remove that I'll be genuinely disappointed like I don't genuinely want it so important to the story I don't think they can remove that right like they're gonna I mean on that if anything or they should lean on that if anything yeah or may just happen in a different way I think if anyone removes its f Roth does he makes it not happen so that it doesn't like formulate I mean for me so much now you like we we know that like Seth needs cloud to exist we see that like in the ending he offers a hand to cloud knowing how much value it would be to have cloud dude I thought he was gonna yeah like he's like cloud join me because if you join me from the character they [ __ ] go yeah I don't know if stuff what's gonna [ __ ] with him to the point of being like you don't even who you think you are you know I mean so good yeah I'm super interest to see how it goes yes and that's what I'm excited about the moment I realized that Sephiroth is essentially aware he's like I'm the omnipresent of what happened to him in the future and he's back [ __ ] like that back he's not I am not having about this I love it he's already great well the entire game or is this like yeah I know everything that's gonna happen it doesn't matter what you do yeah every time you think you're making it's because I'm if you're making the trust I want you to that's right he's not gonna say yes every time every time he talks [ __ ] they sona noise like plump juicy lips some [ __ ] reason I've only what you want cloud like getting upset at the game cuz I've already seen that not necessarily Kingdom Hearts but I've already seen that type of villain and so many other types of media in terms of like I know everything I you can't the fates go to go to because I'm controlling all this like that's where I'm just like [ __ ] I've seen this [ __ ] already but it's still cool because it's [ __ ] Sephiroth and that's yeah it's it's like one of the best villains of all time doing more of what he does in the original game right with dinosaurs and stuff yeah yeah for sure he says about the more [ __ ] because this is like I think the big difference of like yet the Nomura [ __ ] essentially kicking in is that we have an idea of where these characters are going in their resolutions but he didn't deliver it that's that that's the issue for me like you use we have a game that planned all this you know yeah yeah we know where we know how this [ __ ] is going to end for the sake of everyone's setting up Nomura setting up for people and then like either disappointing them or not disappointing them you didn't know where it was going like you thought you had an idea we have a clear and concise idea where this stuff should be going should or will they will they completely deviate from that super think about how risky that is right oh yeah about how crazy it is if they completely deviate Final Fantasy 7 off the rails so much already did it I mean it was risking it to do it in this one and people are already upset right like there's arrived percent of it was risky yeah what 95 completely on Rails dude yeah yeah and it was still it's just that and in the end it's like the end 5% is the is is is completely derailed but the last like 1% sets up our characters of just on the same journey just doing the same [ __ ] I'm gonna honest with you max when we were playing through it I'd be it overwhelmingly people who said to me max is gonna [ __ ] hate this ending yeah ax is gonna hate Europe to be honest I was with you like I I was in this boat where I talked to a lot of my friends and they feel the same way and they don't know what to feel because I was in that situation when those credits were rolling like I like I genuinely was emotionally rot because we're going on the same story but I don't know what the hell they're doing like what is this goofy stuff it's so dump-truckin that it knocks you out it almost makes you forget how sort of like honorable the rest of the game was like the Hell House and the the way that relations all right almost makes you forget that that should happen that's why I don't agree with it I don't like the storytelling aspect of that dump truck but when I go back and reflect I'm like well what if the next games gonna be like that what if there's only like yeah 5% crazy insane [ __ ] but the rest of it is super honorable and like loves it this game loves this game loves Final Fantasy 7 dude oh and if the next games like that that I'm super down yeah yeah I'm just going to say that's that's exactly what I'm hoping to I'm hoping that it's it's it's like I hope it's the total package where it gives us everything we want in seeing these locations and characters in this brand-new system in this brand-new light with all these more tangible realistic connections at the same time it gives just enough new stuff to blow our minds yeah that's right like the cool part of this game is that even though it like it is it is a dump truck everyone will agree like that [ __ ] hits you hard you're like whoa everyone's the same yeah but what I'd appreciate about it and this is where this is where I became a part of Nomura's crazy voyage was oh yeah it's crazy parasitical dick is gonna have residents for three years is that I went back and started reviewing the footage of the game what we actually went through and they sprinkled references and nods and all this stuff of where they're going with the story where our characters are coming from what Sephiroth is is Aerith aware of what's going on it's permeating the whole game but on first playthrough with no context it's not there it's not there at all you're just playing to make and that's the parts like [ __ ] they thought this through they really thought this through kid they thought this through so much that the very first person of key art the very first piece of key art they revealed for Final Fantasy 7 was back in 2017 three years ago gita' say specifically at wouldn't we thought they were gonna show with gameplay they didn't they're like here's just some key art it shows a black wing it Sephiroth with cloud and it's this cool piece of key art that is still referenced for the game however quitarse said when he released that key art this is a new special piece of key art we have for the game we hope you like it and there's alt we also are looking forward to fan theories of what is what's represented in this key art they were already setting us up that this is Sephiroth from the future they were already setting us up that they have this big plan of where the [ __ ] is going yeah so you don't have like multi-year plans without a good idea of like what's happening that's why it feels this is so like marvelous what they're what they're planning on doing they're trying to get this fun and epic thing yeah they're trying to go way bigger than what they had before for sure have you guys done any of the hard night stuff yet I know you and max both have Co did you do any hardmode stuff I have not returned I'm kind of planning on returning and dabbling to hard mode down the road did you I pride and joy not not yet I'm actually saving it yeah there's one fight that I'm like okay yeah everyone's like go do this I don't did JP or Co did you guys beat Muhammad or to do try fighting Bahamut I've been beat I did not find a Monday I was so whatever by the end of the game that it's like I'm good derailed the [ __ ] out of you I naturally let my AP gain so I had to get all the material for Chadli all leveled up I naturally just let that happen through through hard mode so I got to chapter 4 in hard mode and then finally revived leveled up and chat these like hey here's your last mission but the mission I was on was where cloud is solo and he's like you can go fight Bahamut so I went and tried to fight Bahamut alone and I got my ass kicked and I got my ass kicked at an hour and a half later I soloed him and I was like okay so what the hell else happens now and he's like I got something else for you it like chapter 17 I'm like oh [ __ ] so I'm like so waiting for that and then I love hard mode dude I love how it the fact that every not because I went to chapter 17 and I fought him with a PI e yeah oh really yeah really rough he's a weird ass my damn party like there was no cloud in party when I peed Bahamut the big thing the big thing that changes in the first Bahamut fighter least that when you first introduced a Bahamut is the fact that you get items again and you've been conditioned in hard mode to not use items at all like hard mode takes items from you away out of party and it takes heart items from you away in party so you can't use items in any way yeah they're just useless so since I had items again I'm like oh this ain't so bad you already are conditioned to hard mode stuff and it makes it a lot easier to deal with see I did the real hard mode and beat the game without any materia equipped on anyone so and he forgot to put material on Aerith and Tifa so we only had cloud and the other two were useless really good fights in chapter 17 hard mode in the arena enemies pretty cool they throw like some some cool bosses and then there's a do I summon mentally well is the bahaminy o is the Bahamut the same Bahamut you fight at the end of the game model wise it's the same moves yeah but that Bahamut looks way different cuz it's a genuinely different Bahamut the Advent Children or summoning gotcha okay yeah but I did that dude that that boss gauntlet mission in VR where it's like you get the type zero behemoth in the middle and then you have to fight like a marburo in the end I was like I'm dead like I'm super do you have to run around behind them or something like oh yeah yeah it's huge it covers like the whole VR area one area behind him ah the thing that [ __ ] to me was you need bad breaths as an enemy skill so I'm like [ __ ] running all bad breath trying to get it only a chance to get it so like yeah I think that's a fight this thing three times and just get bad breaths like hottie wiped before I actually learned bad breath and I was like oh I'm upset about yeah yeah or any of the enemy skills super opie like is there uh yeah god which would there's one that basically like pulses out that the HP limit and then you you heal for the damaged out yeah yeah I had something destruct and I had the that one that you just referenced but I never really used them yeah I didn't get one enemies heal my first playthrough because there's so many moments where it's like you have this material loadout for your character and suddenly don't have steel you don't have you don't have enemies skill on yeah and then you're just like ah [ __ ] I can't that's like this is a thing they can fix in the next game right like this is the thing where like material loadouts yeah that was right you should be able if there's other party members that you can dislike hey maybe in the next game how about this maybe in the next game Vincent isn't in your active party but you stick enemy skill you stick steel you stick all these other weird things on Vincent and maybe I could just bring him in for a moment and then having peace out maybe I can bring him in if all the time if I want what if they did like a Final Fantasy 10 sub in system how like you're allowed to bring in a character at any time in FF 10 but they did that with Final Fantasy 7 remake combat where it's like three main parties and then you can choose through a mechanic to bring in any other character to swap out at any time X so yeah you know my waste materia there's no all this material that you're not using area yeah yeah I'm also touch on Aerith because in seven magic sucks in the base case to make magic pastas which are like say Seth Vincent to a degree and Aerith and not great but in this game yeah Matt magic has a system so great and the fact that layer is stagger specific enemies and it just has more uses it just felt like it was a really really good upgrade like magic everybody was like Aerith feels like she came from Final Fantasy 14 or some [ __ ] like she doesn't she just your name yeah she kicks us dude yeah she's really good yeah for sure I think it's such a good art grade arcane Ward is probably the most broken player or like character skill in the game the shield's also crazy too ray of judgment also for stagger damages like super super senior she's just strong very character it's so much fun to play in this game dude my god I can't even imagine Barret I'm sorry I can imagine Vincent and like yuffie and Syd yeah like how crazy are they gonna get with her maybe move like he does in Advent Children it'll be [ __ ] crazy if he moves like a Rufus does the chief of combat is so for me wait James has just yeah did you try T fir with um with Perry yes thus like it's like the most broken slide the thing is amazing yeah she become so mobile yeah and if you do dodge attack as well you can parry and then do the whirlwind kicks and just yeah transition into anything yeah really good definitely that I think for me in terms of like the best parts of the game music was king it was the best part of the game throughout the entire thing like no ever miss yeah just every single time its new song kicked in or in a remix song or even the original song kick then it was just ten out of ten I think combat and funny enough like stories probably the last well maybe not some of those we didn't talk about it too much some of those images of like when you're in the high-rise [ __ ] it just looks bad like the textures oh my god it looks so [ __ ] horrendous yeah there's there's like a few chapters in the game that are really bad like that yeah that was were elbows think it's like I almost think it's like late polishing issues or it's like actually a bug yeah yeah because it looks so uncured errant uncharacteristic for the rest of the game it just looks yeah I had a few people trying to be like the original I I love this game right I love the [ __ ] out of this game I'm not gonna defend like the super funky texture stuff up close in some chapters and then obviously the climbing Shinra tower aspect like or the climbing to shouldn't reach our like the skybox is hilariously bad almost comically bad did you plan for kmx I know you have 4k I mean super sample okay I think I was doing in 4k and it looked like worse by comparison because everything's 4k those backgrounds are not anywhere near that it's like something weird something either is weird too going on with unreal or this was like a huge compensation that they couldn't fix and they're gonna maybe fix later I have no idea yeah but it's clearly like give me the PC version for craps sake yeah yeah oh yeah when I went to the press event they were so so proud of the music and the dynamic system they'd created for the music and it I was like I totally understood it once I played yeah it's the best [ __ ] best that's great gorgeous yeah I've almost gone through yeah I didn't even realize we've always been three hours what everything else so people are asking me for you guys to explain Chadli what's going on with Chadli what are we what's the I don't know what I kind of hate him so I'm gonna leave it to max oh you guys don't know what Chadli is no I haven't looked at you know oh [ __ ] alright oh no I know and I haven't beaten it right oh so it tells you their challenges or something there is a special cutscene after you do every single challenge that you can get with Chadli and the final VR arena in like chapter 17 I believe I watched a video on it but I got spoiled Chadli is a [ __ ] robot a Sherman is an Android made by ho to battle assess you doesn't say that was not not specific I said mobile times my chat I was like there's no way he hates Shinran there's no way he does all this [ __ ] without Hojo knowing like that doesn't make sense I just looked at his home and that makes from 13 and I hated him it makes a lot sense so I just thought it was hope yeah I'm feeling an emotional response like all this weird [ __ ] he's literally a robot from from Hojo gotcha hmm that makes sense I haven't beaten pride and joy I've only done the fight so I hadn't seen this okay yeah it's one it's right after gotcha somebody from my can we please talk about the dancing scene there's nothing to talk about it was beautiful it was [ __ ] incredible about this it's like dude the dancing scene the the getting cloud in a dress like all that kind of stuff where it feels like these were all the things like you can't do hell this is what everybody said leading up to this game you can't do Hell House in this Final Fantasy 7 you can't do cross-dressing scene in 2020 these were all the things that people said for the past five years yeah what it's granik's to that's why I don't have any worries about the next game yeah that's why I'm super excited cuz the things that were tough for them to handle like thematically or story-wise are like how do you have these weird goofy characters in a world that look so realistic like this they destroyed it it said it did some of the best parts of the game mmm it was really good set that [ __ ] final championship pull-up challenge [ __ ] dude yeah just go get lucky you just go get lucky yeah my dad was like tripping to this for an hour yeah I think - yeah yeah great that was definitely one of the minigames they tweaked a little bit that actually worked I felt like it it wasn't not necessarily a mini game but I guess just like the puzzle aspect that we're talking about earlier like they tweaked it enough to where it was fun all the minigames stuff is fun it's just that the environmental puzzles are it's like thanks for sure yeah yeah the UH I'm curious when you guys did the oh god it's it's in it's right before cloud drops to go with the earth when they're placing the bomb and you go up to the thing where you have to have Barret Tifa and cloud how many of you where were you guys first looking when you were trying to time that the first time because I was not looking at the UI elements that were front and [ __ ] centre right there I was looking at like the hands I was looking at was like timing was slightly off if you went when she said go you [ __ ] it up there's probably delay with all the counters going yeah but like also I mean I did this in a press event and I was like I'm so [ __ ] ready and I met so many pine one stream and I didn't want to bring I didn't want to say that I'd done it already and [ __ ] up again so I was like yes I mean as I'm doing this it's kind of hard you guys want to bring up before we call it now I think I really I think just overall like this this game hits you pretty hard in the end in ways that you're not expecting and in ways that feel like they just betrays the rest of the game and I think upon like introspective review on like what you're what you're expecting out of the game and where it's going I think it's super bold with what they're doing and I don't agree with the the path that they chose but damn dude I am so excited with where it can go in the future based on the boss fights the combat how this game set up the things that I thought they were gonna screw up like characters and the storytelling of those characters they did they killed all of it they did it so well but I wasn't expecting them to do it so well but I've never I've never had a game what my ass is emotionally as this game did because of my attachment to seven so sure I'm Leah on numerous stupid parasitic dick in my ear is gonna hold residence for quite some time nice so he 4:14 salad and embrace games it's nice I can it feels great sometimes yeah some time aside shoes yeah then when you get to the end sometimes they push this too hard sometimes they'll push a little bit too hard it's a little bit rough so let's hope he doesn't go too deep yeah yeah Stefan do you want some final thoughts dude I I [ __ ] loved it from start to finish but I acknowledge that like people like us we are the target audience or this game and if you're not and you haven't played seven or crisis core like go do it dude they're all great like you've got three years to kill and like and also like I will say a few if you did we enjoy this game there is so much to see playing it through a second time so much do you didn't notice before oh yeah it like it really is worth a second second playthrough and yeah I adored the music adored the combat the ending was a little bit weird but it led us here so it is what it is and I genuinely feel like they will be true to the franchise because is there's it's there is you know Kingdom Hearts is like alright isn't he's in on this but this is like that that there's think it's true it's that baby dude and I think they are gonna do it justice and I'm really excited to see was what's around the corner yeah Co some final thoughts first of all I want to thank the the three people on the show for reviving me a bit this is like about this right now has been the best I've felt in like four days getting this I told JP oh it's like I might make it like half an hour like maybe an hour so also big thanks to Kat it's been a lot of fun like reading along with you guys um but no I mean Final Fantasy seven to me it the remake a couple quick things first of all what's tripping said Final Fantasy 7 remake is a great game to play if you've never played the original but playing the original before you play it gives it layers that are just non-existent if you don't some of the flashes in the flash or words that you get you just you won't understand if you haven't played the original some of the little character quips some little things like it adds a layer of depth that is just even though you don't need makes the experience a lot richer so if I'd like I've been telling people you don't have to play the original first but especially now that you have time probably play the original before you dive in to remake and it will be that much better if you've already played remake go back and play original then played again like strip and just said like it's totally worth it played on hardmode the second time haven't even more fun with it but um yeah like remake to me man was was the total package I mean there were there were music was incredible the graphics were incredible the relationships foster with the characters were second to none even for some of the top tier RPGs I played um I don't think I've ever had a period of my streaming career where I was just dead silent as long as I was at the end of this game like just completely blown away just like what is going on like just it was it was incredible and I also loved how the game not only delivered everything in more that I could have wanted from what they had shown from the original yet somehow delivered this crazy new and exciting experience on top of that it really was a situation where I like had the cake and was able to taste it do like it and you just don't get that from games a lot these days and like Max said it makes me so fundamentally on board with whatever they're gonna develop in the future like knowing that if they are gonna take big risks that they're gonna do it in a way where they're clearly gonna try their best to kind of root it with concrete connections if you look hard enough like knowing that they're taking it that far knowing that they're working that hard to make the connections makes me so much more comfortable with being like go wild guys like anything like I'm on for this ride I've paid I bought the ticket like let's do this like this is gonna be good and and I have a lot of faith in it so yeah man I mean final phases 7 remake was an experience and I can't wait for more from them alright it's like we were expecting we had a lot of expectations it to me if it was like they over delivered on a lot of them absolutely I would agree absolutely does yeah from a gameplay standpoint 100% music standpoint hundred percent yeah fine and chats been asking all day well no no no give us your thoughts [ __ ] my thoughts I think I agree with everything you guys have said like I'm I'm excited to play more of that game I'm curious to see where they go with the story I have my own issues with it but hopefully they can like quell those by going into the second game and actually like exactly what Mac said like the idea of the dump truck [ __ ] at the end if they somehow eat that out over the entire game and maybe not like in ways that you have to have seen the end to understand everything else happening throughout the game and they don't go into explaining what the feather means on a metaphysical level it feels like the pad is really creeping up in like the past is definitely langree like it feels like Square did this to us this way because you've done this to us I've got like 200 plus hours of Kingdom Hearts all right I've got some bad juju in my brain kicking around there you do ah so I'm excited to play the game that they make story-wise I'm excited to see where it goes but I have my own reserves like I think I'm gonna look at it way too critically and I think I actually started this game out with the wrong mindset of that this was Final Fantasy 7 like remade but it wasn't Final Fantasy 7 remake and I went through the game with expectations of like I need to go down that corridor because I know in this next room this is probably supposed to happen and that's a point of no return so let me go down that path and just make sure there's a then as soon as I like got that out of my brain I enjoyed the game 10 times more because I was like expecting everything to occur and and how I experienced that so long ago and so like once I get ready once I got rid of that and actually got on the ride so to speak yeah because this game is a ride it's a rollercoaster yeah yeah I was I was in but yeah I'm a messaging you when you beat the game I was yeah I was like you happy and I think the only thing you said to me was Sam I'm a Kingdom Hearts fan more has hurt me so [ __ ] much I just don't know what I don't know what to make of this looks just like a totally understandable quit and I think it's really obvious that you love the game as much as anyone else for sure yeah I also think that it is like there's two camps right there's the there's people like myself who I did not do anything legwork that like Max and even code to some extent you guys like sought out a lot of explanations are a lot of theories about that [ __ ] I didn't this is a everything that you guys said here was the first time I had heard any of this stuff and it actually like made me in some ways appreciate the game but I'm also fearful of like I wish I didn't have to experience that out of the game right like I wanted that to be within it and so that's where a lot of my writers are on I agree with you dude I agree that like why would they have this blood-borne sks ending that makes you have to revisit the game and reevaluate things like I think on a level for like a popular game and something that is so revered in in pop culture and video games why have this super [ __ ] oh no no more cut them off we're having a blast like going back and you know figuring this stuff out but I don't agree with them making this like deep dive sort of ending where we have to like figure out all these conclusions and stuff like yeah I like being set up for like the unknown I think that is really cool but the way they did it I feel like they almost did it too much or it's like dumb truck scenario yeah couple of mile points for what is a selfish ending that kind of only cared to one element of the fanbase I think and that's us we also have to keep in mind though this is the first game in what's clearly a saga setting so there is a very good chance that a lot of the stuff we're discussing right now is going to be made more concrete maybe given like full explanations like maybe they're even going to go back and reference me like what do you think all those black feathers men well and then like put up a billboard with like there's and stuff like maybe maybe maybe it was designed so this first would be like the conversation starter and then the other game would be like the actual conversation where we're all that takes places or explained because again like a lot of the stuff in this game just like you guys are saying unless you really do all this research or play the other games you're just not gonna understand it and they did specifically say that they want to remake experience to be its own tale as well so there will probably be you know and alone thing where you don't have to reference other material to understand it yeah so you know they we may have more time and we may be getting a lot more concrete answers going forward and I can't assume that the end of this thing will be as kind of Airy as this you know we're right at the cusp live like a giant drop so I'll have to see where it goes I mean no moral said he's been working on this since crisis cool a remake yeah let the plan has been around for a very long time he wanted this it need the finale yeah yeah and if they handle those compilation elements the same way they handled it in this game dude they're there it's the way you should do it right if there's games you should check out ff7 og is great you should definitely check it out to get some perspective Crisis Core will teach you a lot of Zach and he has a varies a great character in that game and completely ignored dirge of cerberus just with every fiber of your being I will argue you know get as far away from that game as you possibly can it will make you not like Final Fantasy 7 if you play dirge of cerberus dude like please someone said to me what's wrong with does a service and I was like have you given any any any FPS games that squares off made and they're like no and I'm like that's what's wrong with dirge of cerberus you guys not even played it recently story-wise like this is such trash I mean I'm sure it has fans and you're not saying you're allowed to like it I just I personally feel it is sauce trashed it I cannot handle what they're putting on screen and what they're talking about in this game what does a remastered urge and put it out would you say yes or not remake enjoy enjoy dirge just enjoy it like aya cuz I don't ask me to okay well I mean Nomura did say he's gonna incorporate elements from these games into he wants to wear them into remake yeah so they did say stuff already yeah for sure he said I mean he's dead to a degree like they're gonna get retconned because yeah I'm gonna be pushed into this game so yeah yeah and finish it yeah like where you discover the payment that's like a reference deep ground the underground lab is a reference to dirge stuff so yeah that's the way you handle it that's yep without it being like super overbearing in Genesis holding an apple and Vincent spewing weird [ __ ] like that's the way you handle it yeah final question that's been asked all day throughout the chat era thirty fuh we're gonna go round everyone's gotta bake thrown pick then we'll do shoutouts and we call it the show no explanation just one word answer stripping era thief oh okay max Tifa so gonna be Co Erath oh how we're gonna be for 44 3 4 3 4 3 3 4 4 or 1 4 forge ferrus but go up better better 100% yeah for the record I would have been teef og would uh oh I don't think they sent me an original I'll face it 7 remake I'm by the end of this saga you'll be on you'll be on board Tifa I think people go mad too in the remake I I didn't do yeah all right let's do some shoutouts how to actually pronounce hey Seth no don't don't like it's catchy yeah it's like some Gaelic [ __ ] nah did you know it's actually mock Oh keep saying that I think that the vo it's like in persona 5 where they made you know essentially final fantasy oh that's fun yeah lolly fantasy strip wouldn't stop making nonsense up do some shallots for us it's [ __ ] real dude what's up my name is stripping guys you can find me at Twitter two full sets trippin I'm a variety ma I do have a pension love RPGs but I play a bit of everything from 7:00 GMT everyday some stuff max do some shoutouts for us what's up guys max here twitch maximilian underscore dude and youtube Maximilian dude if you want to check it out shockingly I normally cover fighting games it's my favorite genre my favorite games in the world are fighting games but believe it or not my favorite single title is Final Fantasy 7 which is why we're here today what if you thought before a majority of ff7 coverage and a lot of other fighting game stuff yeah you can check me out on YouTube or twitch awesome stuff Co here's some shoutouts big thanks to max stripping and JP this has been a lot of fun today think of the time you guys for watching as always as well my name is Koh I am currently sick with something as I have in the last 4 days so my schedule is all over the place we have reruns running to my normal time from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. tomorrow I'll be starting a little bit late probably around 10:00 as I'm running to the doctor's in the morning plaint currently playing through fall at 76 XCOM primary squad we've got some other fun games coming up next week like the remnant from the ashes DLC and some other cool stuff does anyway as always thank you for watching and we'll see you next time you know when he doesn't know please get better man yeah yeah get well dude for sure definitely get better hope let us know I'm sure you will but let us know how that goes I will what are we got coming up here I'll be playing persona 5 after this and probably for the rest of the week as well as gears tactics whenever we can play that Wednesday we'll have another normal episode drop frames as he could be back I don't know if why I've guessed that's Wednesdays at 1:00 p.m. Eastern I think we're gonna have more echoes of eternity with strip and playing Star Wars with Jesse Cox and pocket and Ana and bike man on Thursday doubleheader of pre-show coming up on Friday we have an munition and Jericho on Friday then on Monday we've got DJ wheat day 9 and shocks joining us for that episode 1 p.m. and 4 p.m. Eastern respectively for those two shows and then we'll see what else is going on so that's it thanks I want so much for watching hope you guys enjoyed whatever this show was the spoiler kappa thanks having us yeah thank you guys also for for coming on that's it we're out see you for the next episode the next we didn't what do they call the next one what's the next game called rebirth mmm I really like that renew I think we union reunions the last one our reunion is the last one yeah I think rebirth is a great that would be good rebirth for seed rebirth reunion that's it Square will be in contact if you want to buy that idea [Music]

Channel: itmeJP

Views: 180,756

Keywords: ff7, ff7 remake, ff7r, ff7 remake gameplay, itmejp, droppedframes, strippin, cohhcarnage, maximilian, maximilian_dood, dood, square enix, enix, final fantasy 7 remake, final fantasy 7 remake spoilercast, spoilers, heavyspoilers, final fantasy, square enix games, playstation 4, sony, discussion, dropped frames, 60 fps, easy allies, kinda funny, giant bomb, ign

Id: h3Ex8ILaJAA

Length: 164min 36sec (9876 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 27 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/alainxkie]

Currently tuning in. This is way more informative than the last one.

Edit: This Strippin guy is reading some pretty interesting scripts.

[u/lebarto26]

What I find interesting is the new perspective that Strippin brought to the discussion as to why Sephiroth needs Cloud, i.e. it's more than just to use him to get the black materia. Some level 4 big brain stuff.

[u/[deleted]]

Super interesting discussion about the lore and story of this game: 13 upvotes, 8 comments.

Another picture of Tifa: 383 upvotes, 77 comments.

Just why..?

[u/SoraKey206]

I love the idea of Square Enix use the word "Remake" to call the game with other meaning than remaking the game. Was wondering why they call the Midgar gameplay is remake but not remake part 1 or something that didn't mislead new player to think this is the whole ffvii remake. Turn out they do that on purpose lol. >! Sephiroth clearly try to "remake" the whole part 1 of the game. !<I also like the idea of the group in this podcast name the 2nd and 3rd part >!"Rebirth" and "Reunion"!< xD