Affirmative Action is Racist (Part 2) | Change My Mind

yeah I'm saying the best student it should be the one who gets into school I agree so again we go at the beginning of this thing I said it's not racist and now I'm thinking maybe it could be here is the latest installment of change my mind where we rationalize our positions on controversial topics in our last installment I sat down with Tina to discuss affirmative action you can see that by clicking a video here and in this episode we continue in that vein with three more conversations including one with a UT and Princeton professor of hip-hop remember to let me know what you think about affirmative action in the comments below and more importantly what are your thoughts on these conversations that transpired here alright enough talk let's get to our first conversation meet Ben Ben is it yes Steven nice to meet you Ben do you mind scooching in a little bit so I can now we don't have to separate my shoulder reach now so I don't know how familiar you are if at all with what we do here with this program especially taking providing an opportunity to rationalize our positions on seemingly controversial topics today is affirmative action this was my request here at UT I believe that affirmative action is by definition racist not a fan if you disagree with me you're more than welcome to change my mind well I think we in a perfect world I don't think it should exist but we don't live in a perfect world you know we have marginalized these communities we need help to bring them up you know make them bring them up to the middle class so that they can help you know the other members of their community bring them up and so that we can eliminate this kind of poverty inequality that usually ties with race so I think affirmative action is a great way of helping get rid of a so you said it's a great way so it sounds to me like you've said you believe that it's the right thing to do and you believe it's an effective way yes why do you believe that it's been effective well I mean I think those communities those marginalized communities are moving up through the classes and because they're getting these college education 'z that they can get because of affirmative action okay so you believe that when you say marginalized communities I want to be clear do you mean asian-americans do you mean simply black Americans because they're obviously marginalized communities who are very anti affirmative action yes I mean like all minority groups okay so how do you believe that affirmative action for example is effective in helping Asian American students because they many of them would disagree with you there's a lawsuit against Harvard because of the unfair standards applied to them that are not applied equally to black applicants well I think you know not all of them feel that way I mean there are some let me let me ask you this do you think that it's fair for example when the documents were revealed from Harvard that on average an asian-american student was required to get a 1350 in the SATs versus a black student who was only required to get an 1100 no I don't think it's fair but again I think it's not about being fair it's about bringing these committees up because I mean the African American community has been marginalized more than the Asian American community I would say okay so it should be based on how much marginalization yeah how do we first up before we get to how effective affirmative action is I guess how do we rate that because no I'm a you know Asian Americans were more recently put in an internment camps and we had anti Asian immigration is there nothing like slavery okay like but it's far more recent recent but slavery has a lot had a lot more of a lasting effect I mean okay internment camps you know they're awful but the community bounce back from that I mean more people went where people came out of internment camps than went in so it's not but slavery I mean that is just scarring for an entire race generationally like even three four five oh eight generations removed as opposed to internment camps yes so let me ask you do you think it's right that for example an Asian American female student would have to score higher on the SATs to be admitted in comparison to a white male student I don't think it's right but again I just think that's what's got to happen because we live in an imperfect world okay so you think it's okay that female Asian American students have to do better than not only black students but have to perform better than white Americans and in other words Asian students actually are unfairly treated in comparison to white Americans so you would have to argue I suppose that Asian Americans have been less marginalized than white males I haven't seen any numbers that prove that yeah I mean if you just look at the numbers for example at Harvard and I can show them to you afterward the average scores were required to be admitted into higher education Ivy League schools with Asian Americans was 1350 with white Americans it was 1310 with black Americans it was 1100 so an Asian American female student would on average be required to have a higher SAT score higher performative metrics academically than a white male that these are the consequences of affirmative action again I haven't seen those okay but let's assume that I'm not lying okay where would you light up on that just kind of how it goes okay so forget about the Asian Americans the Asian females they can fend for themselves so we'll get to black Americans so you believe that affirmative action is a good thing it's morally imperative I understand that I disagree but you believe that it's been effective for black Americans and you said because now we see them having more or less economic disparity am i correct I'd like to hear you kind of express your position why you believe affirmative action is work well I think it helps them get the education that they need to do well you know in this economy I mean because you gotta have like a master's degree to get like basically a minimum-wage job nowadays and so I think it helps having that especially when a lot of these schools you know I mean UT itself has been like you know targeting against African American students I mean we have a monument to Robert Ely over there not especially something really welcoming how have they been targeting african-americans I'm not familiar with that well there was a whole article actually published about how they use to test scores to target african-american students how so I'm not entirely familiar oh okay well I'm not familiar either so I'd be interested to hear that because that sounds like it should be a national scandal if the university is specifically targeting black America it was in the 60s after they were forced to okay in the sixties and one not not currently oh okay good well it shouldn't you bring that up you know there are fewer because you've brought up the idea that more african-americans are seemingly having an better economic metrics I don't know if have any data to back that up but there are actually fewer black Americans admitted to universities today than there were thirty five years ago is that percentage-wise or is that just numbers as a percentage of the population in total yeah fewer today than thirty five years ago so it seemed that maybe affirmative action hasn't encouraged overall enrollment but what we have seen is worse performative standards for black Americans on campus you know and these are these unintended consequences a soft prejudice of low expectations for example black Americans who get admitted into a law program let's use Harvard law as an example there are four times as likely to fail to bar exam even though they've gone to an Ivy League school and logically I would argue that black Americans being admitted solely on the basis of race as you've advocated with lower academic performance metrics end up with a bar exam which is blind there is no racial bias there with lower academic performance metric outcomes and there are more black Americans who drop out 50% of black Americans on college campus and higher education they make up the bottom 10% respectively because they're mismatched against peers who had to be more qualified to get into the university and that creates actually a real a real problem and a higher dropout rate and lower performance outcomes for them could you see that as maybe an outcome of unintended consequences for affirmative action that might mean it's not so effective I guess I appreciate that I appreciate you um being honest but you know what I would like to see here's one thing I want you to understand I would like to see all Americans do better and I certainly would like to see the outlook economic outlook for African Americans improve just as much I want to see it improve for you or white Americans but I don't believe that's necessarily predicated on racially accepting people to college on the basis of race a because I think it's immoral to race ously and implement college application or acceptance policies be the best indicator that we have or certainly the the most determinative factor as far as one's economic success academic success where they end up prison has nothing to do with a college degree do you know it is do you know what the single greatest socio-economic indicator of future wealth employment graduating college is but it's an experience you know having a dual parent household having a mother and a father who are still together do you know that if you if you graduate high school and you wait until you're married to have kids there's a 98% chance that you don't end up in poverty over 70% make at least middle class or higher the social mobility in this country is unheard of for both black Americans and white Americans now the problem and we see this across all races any time you deal with a single-parent household and Barack Obama expressed this as well beyond just research papers the likelihood of ending up in prison is exponentially higher the likelihood of behavioral disorders the likelihood of not making it through high schools exponentially higher interestingly from the 1960s where single-parent households made up less than 25% of all black households in 2019 they make up almost 80% with white holes household it's below 30% that actually would explain the economic disparity far more than the idea of affirmative action or its implementation therein and uh but I'm not sure if that's the only factor because I feel like there are other factors that cause you know people to separate to have single I agree I agree can I get present to my case as to why that is it would be actually policies very similar to affirmative action will be policies like the model Cities program under Lyndon Johnson the modern welfare program as we know what these were implemented in the 1960s that encouraged and financially incentivize people to be single-parent households that's why you see such a strong family household demographic for black Americans the 1960s degrade to 80% our fatherless household their singer parent households there's an economic incentive with the current welfare system to not be married oh so I mean like because it's how many checks you can collect if you're married though you get tax breaks like that you don't get it doesn't it doesn't counterbalance the single household benefits that you would get from a welfare program the current welfare program so and that's what's so alarming to me about affirmative action right because I understand in principle the idea of model cities the idea of the welfare implementation right I understand there's this is right after 65 the Voting Rights Act and of course you the Civil Rights Act in the 60s as well I understand that they were trying to right the wrongs of previous generations but to way that the way to right the wrong of previous generations which involves the stomach discrimination against blacks I think we agree now involves systemic discrimination against other people or certainly systemic targeting of blacks for specific programs right and so they created the model Cities program they created the modern welfare program which incentivize single-parent household has created more economic disparity than we could have imagined and that is very closely mirrored by affirmative action it's trying to write the historical wrongs of blacks not making up enough of the campus fabric in the past by implementing racist policies now and it's having very much the same effects of black students falling behind of creating racial tension and unrest and actually lowering overall performance metrics so I would argue that it's not only immoral because it's racist but results wise just as welfare and the model Cities program have had detrimental effects in trying to right the wrongs of the past affirmative action has harmed black Americans let alone Asian Americans in trying to write the racial discriminations of the past and that's why I think we need to do away with it so just if I may ask shorty you think we should do to right the wrongs of the past so I don't think you can right the wrongs of the past I think what you can do is set the best path moving forward toward the future and we have seen states that have basically done away with affirmative action you know what's interesting some minority enrollment has gone up someone already enrollment has gone down there's really no correlation it's actually been relative relatively evens out so firm ative action hasn't had that much of an overall effect it does seem as though it's had an overall effect on there being fewer black Americans on campus over the last 35 years I think we need to do away with it and stop focusing on viewing everyone through the prism of lens and view them to the prison of intellectual diversity and performative contributions I think that would be fair to Asian Americans I think it would be fair to black Americans and I think it's the right thing to do okay no fair yeah thank you so much Ben no problem I appreciate it and thank you for sitting down brother no problem Thank You Man appreciate Dan everybody and as always if you want these videos to continue please do consider joining mud club at louder with Crider comm slash mug club at 69 annually for students veterans active military you'd get this wonderful quenette's mug and the full daily show that is not available on youtube of course we are not currently monetized so it's the only way to ensure that this content continues and of course bookmark this channel check back for new videos every single weekday 9:00 p.m. Eastern okay next conversation is with UT and Princeton professor of hip hop Raphael Steven what's name Raphael yeah I feel a rasa Raphael Raphael okay the Ninja Turtles I liked Raphael as a kid because he had a little bit of a little bit of spunk a little bit of attitude he was alone it was a wild man I appreciate it but my favorite colors red as you can see this was his why do I was red it was look brand-new no no no you're not you're not here stuff that you just keep them looking good dancing shoes okay well these they certainly look better than my shoe so dancing shoe suit but someone with something you are a professor yeah I teach dance oh wow and you teach that here at UT yes okay here at U semester okay well so you teach hip-hop or improvisational approach to hip-hop at UT yes after this do you think you could maybe show me something I couldn't I don't you know I'm very white I'm very athletic but I'm a good I'm good at some things but I think my mom says I'm a good dancer so I'll give it a whirl okay your mom tell you to pin the compliment you all right so uh professor Rafael I don't know how familiar you are at all with what we do so it's basically an opportunity to sit down and hopefully have productive civil dialogues where we rationalize our position on perceived confrontational issues the idea is to kind of disarm some some hot button issues that people often yell about rather than talk about and so today this was my request actually from students at UT as a topic of affirmative action specifically as it relates to applications and acceptance on college campus I believe that affirmative action as a policy is by definition racist I think it's wrong and I don't think that it's worked but if you disagree with me you're more than welcome to to change my mind professor well initially I was curious about what this whole thing I don't feel this racist and not having as much information I'm sure as you do without it to be able to let's just say date that we have more being a black professor you know more experience yeah I'm my first my first thing is my definition of affirmative action is is to allocate resources to those who underprivileged or have been discriminated discriminated against from the beginning okay that's already a hint of racism right discrimination against people of anyone based on race is racism yeah it starts with that yes so to even the playing field you allow those those certain resources so to speak to be distributed people don't get them and I think everybody across the board now gets a fair chance that's something there yeah so I don't know that I agree with you in a sense that um when I when I say racist I mean if I definition I show this is amela make sure so that you don't think I'm being cute I don't necessarily mean racially negative but racial prejudice or discrimination right right and so affirmative action in responding I agree with you everything you just said and responding to systemic racism has now created a policy that is systemically racist and that it specifically either includes people based on race or excludes people based on race notably Asian Americans have been disproportionately affected by affirmative action negatively I'm sure you're aware of the lawsuits that are happening at Harvard so I understand where you're coming from and I think that it's a virtuous goal to want to correct the wrongs of the past I don't believe that the right way to do that is to then implement more systemic discrimination whether it's against Asians white Americans Mexican black Americans whatever it is and I also would argue that it has not been effective in achieving the results that it wants so even if it's a virtuous goal if we agreed that this idea of sort of to use the term of someone whose earlier reverse discrimination now against other people with preferential treatment for black Americans if we agree that that is morally correct it still hasn't had net positive results and in many ways it's had net negative results for black America I can't agree with that and you can or can't I can okay okay got a little bit and I have to go back to some basic run-of-the-mill statements two wrongs don't make a right right right but at the same time man there are because I agree with what you said it has not made a major difference right it only benefit people a certain percentage of the people which then own still leaves a chunk of res people out so it's not it doesn't it doesn't allow everybody right that same kind of privilege so yeah right what I wanted to say is say you have someone who is someone brought this up they have some kind of disability right right like a physical disability or mental disability yeah yeah and again it let's go back some okay when I grew up it was black and white that was it right people causing something out of your name what people both like he was a lying English racist now I don't think with all of the things that are across the board at this point all the different groups it's no longer racist it's now what I would call xenophobia people are afraid of something different you understand there's more than just that everybody has a preference something that they do not like it just so happens to be that the human vision comes in difficult cases rises and so they serve some people not all people through them I don't think you're afraid of me being white and I'm not afraid of you being black that hoping that's my character right this is I'm not afraid right of you right but I've gone in places that created tension where I am afraid to be in a certain place right and not only because of what I look like sure but because I might present an intimidating view right right and anyway what's interesting is what you just brought up is actually an argument that people often make for racially segregated schools because for example we see that sex limited schools like all-boys schools from all girls schools they perform much better and the reason for that is because they don't feel uncomfortable either not even necessarily being a minority for a long time we assumed it was because black people are a minority and they felt uncomfortable and a lot of white people but then we found out the same thing was true even if you had a pretty mixed student population and people sort of being in an environment where they feel as though they don't have to worry about insensitivities offending people or this sort of xenophobic and mindset as you you've addressed generate more positive outcomes and all boys are all girls schools and so you have some racists who say well then we should just have segregated schools completely and I know that that is not at all what you're advocating it's not about what I'm advocating it's just interesting that we take something and I think we both agree and say fear of anyone based on race is bad you have racists say because it's natural we need to implement segregation and that's what we've seen historically and I think this is in my opinion a soft version of that is what we now know as affirmative action because it is excluding people based on race and and I think that's wrong but you don't you know me man it's hard to get the whole idea about your definition of race out of my head because I came up in the 70s I only know one way understand sure so we're talking someone who's let's just say social political background or their poverty level is different their educational level is different right so or school oh no no no no I'm sorry I'm sorry there's a lot of things I want to say can't get them all out but that's okay we have time to get into a university a prestigious university let's just say here Princeton sure they expect a certain kind of student in place if you can't deliver what the expectations of the university the university is yeah it doesn't work then right you you then I'm not going to allow you in a mus move because you don't have what it takes to be here right regardless - in my issue an affirmative action is it's the opposite that's our cuz now they're saying you don't have to what it takes to get here but because you're black we're going to admit you even though an Asian kid worked harder and got better scores somewhere along the line someone said there's not enough of a particular race people here yeah now I again go back to this thing I don't think it's racist but I do agree with you and what you said earlier okay but well and you're not talking about black and white that I'm talking about okay so if you're not smart enough to get into a certain place then nothing is the affirmative action and that way is only going to cause more problems right on a larger scale not only the people who want to get into schools not not the parents of those people who want to get into schools but when that gets out you got a whole race of people or old people people who are now and now have a problem with that and they create this possible it's not fair right what it isn't and so no no I'm not talking about sorry I'm a mister I'm saying I thought you were saying like for example of white students or Asian students are saying well hey hold on a second I got higher on the SATs and do more extracurriculars it's not fair that it went to a black guy and then make a big fuss but I think the Asian kid makes a fuss rightfully because it's tough right now it's tough to get into a college as an asian-american - what I'm saying if this school if this school says you have to have a certain criteria to get in yeah what's the what's the problem with that that's okay right that's best what's supposed to be well I should start saying that we now have somebody got pissed off because they assume that your your that you had what it takes it takes to get into school right right some parents are mad now because they believe that you belong in there and you just may not so now this affirmative action thing kicks in them well no I believe the problem is before that so I would like to go back to what you said before and I agree with you I have no problem of the school saying this is a set criteria for you to meet to be eligible for the school right I think we both agree my problem is whether it's white Asian or black when that criteria includes and this race and that's what affirmative action is affirmative action isn't you need these test scores you need these district curricular need this essay it's you need all of these things and you also need to be black and let's add on top of it you also can have lower scores if you're black because we expect less of you right and I just had a girl who sat down with me a girl named Tina and this is just you know I can privilege white guy but very sad rice that she was saying well I think I've benefited from affirmative action and she listed everything that she did she came from Longview went to a small school didn't have a lot of AP programs she did a lot of extracurriculars and wrote an essay I said well that sounds to me like you earned your spot here at UT you worked really hard and she said yeah I'd like to think so I said you'd not think that you deserve to be here she said well I think so but I also think it could be because of affirmative action and I said that's so sad it's so sad that you can work so hard and because other people maybe didn't work so hard but got in really based on tokenism you robbed that girl Tina of her self-confidence in earning her accomplishment so I agree with you that university should have set out criteria I just have a problem with that criteria specifically involving race and I think it's had negative results right so so what about the idea of just having more diversity into the into the school onto the system right that's another way to lose is diversity make a diverse program we want to make a diverse University where every bit now doesn't look like just white Asian you know that's you know everybody now here also has access to get into this into this place whether school job or what Equal Opportunity with the same thing in this sense no because I don't have a problem with diversity occurring naturally based on the premise of equal opportunity it sounds to me like what you're talking about is equal outcome let me ask you so I clarified so I'm not misunderstanding when you say diversity what do you mean specifically if you have if you have your school 90% white and any only people that can qualify to get into schools or people of that background we need to do something but that's not I want to be clear that's not what happened what's happened in front of action is the Optronics plain some okay turn out okay right so apologize if the university is all white let's just leave it at that make it simple university is all white someone says something in the system some some group says the schools are white medium have more color in air so the school implements some kind of system that says let's reach out to the trans community black community a community right and then do that and then so then the most Asians are scoring or they are qualifying to be in that place now the school's white Asian so how do we get more Latinos and diversity to the program so if your target was people racial diversity yeah if those people are not getting the qualifications or the scores that it takes to get into school then something needs to be applied for that to happen so the school meets the quota affirmative action sets that up okay so you support the idea of racial quotas to promote racial diversity yeah but I wouldn't call it I mean I mean I just want to make sure because you just said quota yeah yeah but I wouldn't call it racial okay because so what would you call specifically allowing a black person in with lower credentials because they're black if not racial what would you call that all fan-man I would just say it's offering an opportunity to someone who would never have the chance to do that kind of what they do the chance by meeting the same criteria so let me but let me kind of presenter you they don't come from a place where they're there if they grow up in an environment that doesn't allow them first of all to grow with an environment to move into to be surrounded by the thing that gives them a certain kind of knowledge where they can they can learn these things to get into the school yeah we take tests sometimes come as a black person in the in there in certain schools where so a black person because when I understand we take tests you didn't do a Rachel Dolezal did you've always been black so we take these tests to get into a certain place if I fail the test man I got to go back but how do I learn but that's a sentiment of white people how do them too how do people learn to take testicles yes okay I'm into to get into the place if it never gonna happen and we need it's already happening so let me let me address kind of your point so you were saying a school is entirely white okay first off I disagree with your premise of diversity for diversity's sake as a virtue I don't think so I think that intellectual diversity is more important by the way that's much more lacking on campus than racial diversity intellectual diversity as a matter of fact you have 40% of all university campuses with not a single Republican or conservative professor at all 40% you can't find 40% of any schools that don't have a single black professor you can't find probably 5% they don't have a single black professor or a single lesbian professor so intellectual diversity is more importantly but to go to that point you're assuming you're presupposing that if a school is entirely white which has never really been the case by the way Matt in fact black enrollment in higher tier universities like Ivy League is lower now than 35 years ago pre affirmative action agreed so affirmative action is had a negative effect on black enrollment at higher education so I don't agree with the premise that it's all white by design so I can't possibly agree with the next premise which is we need to create X percent quota of black people by design I can't because it wasn't by design the third majority white people just like it's not by design that asian-americans second who have disproportionately faced discrimination and I don't want to compare discrimination of black Americans to asian-americans but certainly internment camps and the immigration policies against people from China were very very severe I don't believe that they should now be forced to meet higher standards even though they faced the same kind of descriptive system of determination solely because without any quotas they were outperforming white people so an example right now we talk about racial diversity a white male can score lower so we all go okay it should be okay for a black person to score lower than Asian and get into the same university that's what people I don't agree with it but the unintended consequences are an Asian female right now has to score higher than a white male solely because Asian Americans have typically performed well in standardized testing they have done very well with extracurriculars and you know the reason for that they face discrimination they faced extreme poverty and first-generation immigrants they're very strong nuclear family households and a strong emphasis on that and this is something we talked about before with black Americans when you look at this and you go okay why are there fewer black enrollees right now in university that top-tier universities and before especially when you look at the fact that a black female with a higher education degree will actually make more than a white so the gap is closed in certain ways but the disparity comes from Duke let me ask you this do you know what the single biggest socio-economic indicator is of it's not even close Barack Obama said this every set that we have reflects that the biggest indicator we have of whether you graduate high school whether you end up in prison whether you go to a good college whether you make a good living whether you have healthy relationships the dual parent households a mom and the dad still actively engaged the household black Americans in the 1960s had a 25% single-parent household Reagan or father's household Reagan today that's nearly 80 compared to 25% with white America 30% with white Americans and much lower with Asian Americans and Latin Americans that is a startling trend and that will put black young men at an extreme disadvantage and a lot of you have to ask why and the reason why was because of Lyndon Johnson sure you remember this my dad's from Detroit as well the model Cities program started in Detroit and the welfare program which incentivized single-parent households and was marketed toward black people and so you go from really strong family structures in the black community much more so than the white community for a long time that's slowly degraded until today and that's a more important economic and social factor than even a higher education degree and we're trying to correct it with affirmative action at university by the time the problems already begun and we're trying to correct it with affirmative action which very much parallels the model cities in the welfare program and that it's trying to right the wrongs of the past with systemic discrimination toward the future of people of other races and that's why I don't think that it's morally correct and I would presuppose that's why the results haven't yielded what we thought affirmative action would I'm gonna agree with it I don't I don't think it did any justice but now I'm starting to think more I mean it could be it could be racist what could be racist the formative action yes but I thought you were saying it could be racism pointing someone's like now I'm gonna be a question there that's what I was curious about it made me come up be in the first place I didn't think it was but putting these things in place to what you're saying both of them could stand yeah net side by side it isn't it isn't depending on how you look at it who are you what kind of information do you have that could that these things live and you can say that both these things can stand side by side and in comparison yeah yes or no yay or nay yeah bad right real quick man do you remember the study there was a study in New York where the black white asian kids went to the same school wipe scored higher than asians was a black for second so when asians no I'm sorry whites blacks Asians yeah during the summers over a four-year period the Asians went to school and studied and read more during the summers they were first two years in was Asians blacks and whites by the end of the 4-year period it was Asian whites and blacks yeah somewhere along the line something changes and it could be the fact that no one's pushing none of people are pushing for the black kids to continue outside of the institution fathers right it could be but it's definitely I mean III mean I don't come from that I've come from a one parent house and just a mom yeah and I grew up quick I had my mom was working 11 7-eleven crazy that's a very impressive and I'm sure you understand your statistical anomaly because a lot of black men who didn't have fathers they didn't and they ended up in the system so it's basically dead locked up kids real bad off with friends who that way to this day I only have up the probably name about five not even then three three cats I know who didn't go this yeah right let me ask you this this is a personal question how much compared to because your professor successful agent juicy teach at Princeton as well or oppressed in and then you teach here you tease okay so hit me on the fall and Wow okay so very accomplished that's not statistically very typical of by the way not only black people but white people without dad's white people Asian be without dads across the board but let me ask you this with how successful you are and what you've seen mentioning your friends you've ended up in prison which is which is tragic it really is true and I think there's a whole argument for prison reform I'm actually very happy what Donald Trump has done with nonviolent drug offenders you know letting some black people free which was a big deal anyway sorry we'll get will get back and I'm getting sidetracked now how much of an advantage do you think it would be compared to everything else affirmative action welfare programs any other government program that they've created to try and help black Americans would you agree that having a dad in your household who supported you would be a much greater factor in your ability to thrive as a child than a government program having a dad there who was there for you and supported you how big of an impact you think that would have made I'm not sure man because the variables are very different unless you say there's no father's no longer here but he also wasn't in my life right if my father was in my life I may not have I may not be sitting here talking to you I could have taken the route that he took whether he was in the house or nothing mm-hmm there's also a job you need to do it Wow okay I'm assuming a good supportive fathers what I'm saying if you had a good supportive father who took care of your mother and took care of you in the house yeah how much of an advantage do you think that would have been compared to your friends and I will tell you statistically that's an advantage and I recognize this when we talk about privilege as someone who is whether what a Canadian a french-canadian immigrants were natori to me when I look back and go thank for me having a mother and a father you made such a big impact and when you look at the statistic across all races it's consistent white kids don't do well without a dad black kids oh it's just that seventy-seven percent of black households don't have a dad right now right and the problem begins long before they get to university and so then we implement these effectively racist racist measures in the university and quotas to try and fix a problem that was created by government programs in the first place is my point you know it's the the unintended consequence is the ripple effect of creating a real problem of economic disparity yeah and now real quick what comes to mind when you say that is earlier you said that something was not by design if a university yeah because if it was all white yeah the only way I could agree with your argument is if it was all white only by design where they had a policy instead of running a white James okay now yeah what are you describing right now if we go back and this is this I can't even get into the I can't pull from this stuff right now because my head is all over the place with this I didn't expect any of this but it when you look at what was set up in in the african-american communities at certain time this is his 60s late 50s 60s 70s it was to disrupt the the homes oh yeah the welfare programs and model cities programs yeah you know what I don't know I'm sorry I think some of that was too many people make the argument that Lyndon Johnson did it deliberately yeah maybe you believe that do it was that it was a design yeah it was designed to set up things for what's happening today right and there might have been some programs that were put in place or implemented to disrupt that but here's the thing right it was presented by Lyndon Johnson as a gift right it was presented as though hey we're gonna fix the problems in the past or we implement welfare we're gonna do central organized planning right right very similar to the way affirmative action by design is presented as a gift if something was not looked at critically it becomes enabling and that's what that was and so some things that have put that are implemented into systems are enabling and affirmative action may just be that thing we may have some kind of it lingers man yeah right because I want people especially I mean you so you what was your path like becoming a professor I'm super familiar with by the way okay yeah my friends I sold drugs they've been out of jail not me my mother was very strong and so she I think she had high expectations of me as a child I was told to do things and expected them to be done when she came home right that carried with me all my life and I watched my friends grow up in the same one parent house or listen with their mother when we got into the street we did whatever we wanted to do and they were at home and they took whatever they had your street into the home I left this outside because my mom was going to do with my dad for to kick ass yeah so I had something to had a standard to live up to right french-canadian mom's very similar in that way my mom slap me around not much in common with a lot of these white Americans who get a timeout I was like that's what you got French Canadians yeah okay so I didn't go to university I'm cutting some stuff out but I didn't go to a university I had my hands in the street and very many different things that creating character for me I learned what was right and wrong and I learned how to decipher between the two to get what I needed to get to this is the people watching me also I kind of stayed away from certain things that I knew would get me in trouble yeah and if I think in trouble nobody knew I was getting in trouble because it's just a stream yeah yeah don't have a college degree didn't go to college so how do you become a professor studied what I thought I was supposed to study on my own I read a lot after I got in school I read a lot was hungry for information and I wasn't learning in school this damn this stuff wasn't set up for me in school it was a place for me to go worked by standard mm-hmm and get out right what AM what am I supposed to do live by what everybody else did go to college get a head case young white kid job the whole nine that didn't interest me I wanted to make things I want that was very creative and so that was the same same way that said I was learning disabled because I was bored oh man same thing I was would talk to all the damn time and wonder why people who aren't I was in second grade reading on the sixth grade level right when I wanted to the second grade we were plus two we were bused out of the hood into into the whites coops my dad was in Detroit after the riots with the yeah that worked like a charm didn't end the integration busing system another example of unintended consequences yeah but now now with me as a child not knowing where what I was doing where I was going I took today as punishment for talking too much I was put in the corner to read as punishment for talking too much after I read the books I was put in the corner to write Chinese it's a hard language to start Mandarin I don't remember just any Chinese character so you know why you're writing no it was copied characters whatever he just had a really racist professor at your writing racist white Chinese justice crew right was the one that was getting in trouble all the time and I'm like you picking on me right so I was telling this woman doesn't like them that long the long run a completely opposite looking back it was you this woman was creating tools punishment that was encouraging creativity and learning Oh turning destructive behavior into productive ability yes I went back I went to third grade back to the hood school whoo dude cutting class hanging out with the wrong crowd the whole night right and I remember that to this day that's where I should have been because the kind of person I was so anyway long story short somewhere in in my head that stuff stuck with me man and I lived but I read things that I was interested in all the time I continued to practice you can ask you a quick question cuz I'm interested you said so that happened that teacher that was when you were going across district and the new yes so was that teacher what she wider was she like so she was a old white woman know who you thought was racist what do you realized she was she was actually doing things that encouraged me to be better and then when you went back to the schools where teachers were primarily black know they were like - they didn't take care of you know okay it's just shuffling these kids through school to get out right it's it despite the fact that there's more spending in those schools a lot of people don't know there's more spending in the inner-city schools it's just in men yeah so so what did they do we got in trouble into those schools put you in the room no book no yeah you can't we just have to sit there with your head down don't talk no nothing let's destruct my teacher you know what I have a similar story so they it was in the fourth grade and I was do you care about my story it's kind of its kind of married marriage that's art we've got enough and then we'll get back to it but what happened was I was forced cuz in French Canada you want to talk about discrimination they actually something called the language police where if I open my name is Stephen if I open Stevens diner apostrophe s I could be fined and put in jail because the French writing has to be two-and-a-half times bigger than the English writing even though Canada's an English country but French is a sorry Quebec is a French province it would be like Texas saying there's a language police you have to speak Spanish and you have to write all your signs in Spanish so not only that but if you have a single parent born in Quebec you have to go to French schooling so I do speak French and English French is technically my first language because I learned to read and I learned to read and write at first but I think in English and I've lost a lot of my French so what happened was in the third grade I felt so far behind because I was doing math and geography in history in French right and in foreign language just because my mom was French even though my dad was born in Detroit yeah so because of some kind of a loophole they finally got me to in the middle of third grade no would have been middle of fourth grade they got me switched over I don't have to bleep the name system from this year I think to Missy so she was an English teacher okay French teacher was very nice if I said I was learning disabled like borderline got moved to an English class were now I'm doing math in English and this lady ms she was I want to say South Indian really harsh really strict I did not like her so I came from a nice teacher who said he's learning disabled they sent me to a teacher miss who a lot of kids hated thought was mean but she stayed after clients and taught me long division as long as it took she didn't do with a smile on her face but she cared and she basically said your child is not learning disabled actually she said your child may have ADHD but she said it's this is a language thing that had happened and so it's just interesting to me that you know it it really does bridge that racial divide it is about actually helping people and wanting to better people regardless of where they are regardless of their race and that's my problem with affirmative action on campus it's not blind like your white professor was raised racially blind and she was just helping a kid miss was just helping a kid affirmative action says don't help the white kid I'll help the Asian kid you have to help the black kid right and that creates another system it also perpetuates the idea that you have to just do what you need to do right to play the game write this as good as everyone else so okay so I interrupt but how did you become a professor of hip-hop where you hip-hop dancer yeah yeah I started breaking tonight anything would break good and instead of breaking in 1983 okay you know it was very new at the time so super long story short man I just studied it and I performed in in theater with the first hip hop dance company to put hip hop dance on concert stage but he has Philadelphia and from that point on I found something that kept me engaged all the time I can make music and dance I can just set design I could do all these things that appear on the stage the same the canvas for me to do what I had been learning in mr. Foggs class right and so understanding that from 1983 and studying it all the way up to when I started Princeton 2014 I just found myself in different places that gave me an advantage it's gonna be a weird start at Princeton like you know what we need here at Princeton hip hop mind-blowing yeah so they called me and I said no a couple of times then something is like dude you turned them down I did white people's faces deal I had what it took to be in Presley growing up our president Harvard Princeton Harvard Princeton Harvard Yale right and now I'm here and even though you know I'm a college degree it was merit-based because of what you've accomplished yet affectionately so again that's still merit-based how upsetting would it be to you for I would imagine that in hip-hop right specifically an eighties probably largely black correct black and Latino you know what if they came in and said there are too many black hip-hop professors we need to have more white hip-hop professors okay and then you said but that guy sucks well they're like yeah but you know what there aren't enough of them so we have lower expectations because we know white people can't dance but that doesn't even have the do it now what had happened was because the schools have a service standard you can't go in without degree you can't answer that level of degree and so there were a lot of people who have degrees I could study or know someone that they could bring in to teach what they needed to teach right so there were white people are people that didn't come from the background who we're teaching those those classes and then eventually I guess the school is just felt like we need to get some official some qualified people in right in here to do what they need to do and a couple of them over anybody has has a couple honorary degrees now from the University so he doesn't have a degree either but he's managed to do what it needs to what what needed to be maybe it's different because of the history of hip-hop at Princeton but let's say when you were touring yes it was mostly black and Latino yeah it would probably piss you off it would imagine if they just started hiring white guys to diversify who weren't good dancers you probably would have said man that's not right yeah because someone else who's a better dancer is losing that spot true but if you didn't do the work to get to that point right it's on you saying if let's say there were an audition okay let's say you were there and it seems like you high levels you probably retain on a lot of auditions know that in a game okay much but but but let's say your question you're right yeah my people got more gigs in the blacks yeah example because there weren't it out to them no not even it did just fit the bill now I would go in I would go to a place that's it the cast the casting call hey would be the guy with a white beard blue t-shirt red sneakers glasses the pr6 exactly what I would be wearing coincidentally yeah and the person who got the job is completely opposite white kid blue eyes blond hair looks like we can put him anywhere we need to him and so that is what becomes the visual ID being being able to identify hip-hop with that thing and then you get that NSYNC that's what happens yeah and it's still continuing sure so but I think we were finding common ground we both agree in that instance the best dancer should be the one who gets the job and I'm yeah you know wasn't the case yeah and I'm saying the best student should be the one who gets into school I agree so again we go at the beginning of this thing with more information we put both these things on the table and we both there's no right or wrong it is how can you prove rap which one you okay well that's all we both have something to think about definitely man I have show me a little bit hip-hop thank you okay well this is the thing hold on was he's a professor of hip-hop what I got to do so you go like this go up and down and up and everybody grab hands right we'll do like this big wave yeah everyone grab and let's do the wave everyone grab hands come on now we're gonna do the wave let's do a giant wing there you go we'll start right here okay we grab hands but okay you gotta connect Johnny come here or Jeff I'll get my security guy come on that's security that will do that all right he's missing okay look at this how about that look at this all different races genders the power of dam that's called the affirmative well thank you okay next up [Music] okay okay forgive me if I don't I'll a yes okay Stephen forgive me if I don't pronounce it correctly so I grab a sip of water before we start I'm very thirsty on the cup yeah my mom is french-canadian and she just doesn't pronounce anything properly so I am pronouncing floor she goes crossing and you're like what I go Francine yeah just put that on there so I understand so I lay okay I'm close all right I don't know how familiar you are if at all with what we do with this program okay you are so typically it's it's and you allow this to finish me okay that's it it's a chance to sort of rationalize our positions on controversial topics today by request at UT is affirmative action I believe that affirmative action is racist by definition I think it's morally wrong and it hasn't worked if you disagree with me you're more than welcome to change my mind well I mean I think that calling it racist isn't like I guess the correct term because it's like a policy that was instituted in response to like social inequalities experienced by different like disadvantaged minorities and disadvantaged operational groups I just wanna make sure I agree with what you just said but it's still racist by definition okay I just want to make sure we're you under because I understand that what you're saying is racism generally has a negative connotation and I think that affirmative action has a negative connotation because of its results but I'm using this definition of racism here racial prejudice or discrimination by definition of formative action is discriminating against members of specific races based on racial identity now they might be doing it for what they believe to be an altruistic reason which I understand you agree with but by its definition it still is exclusive based on race you see I don't think that it like excused raised from getting me accepted into at the university sure it's awesome I mean it can lower the pool of acceptance like space that our university has because it designates like a certain amount for different races or you know but it doesn't like exclusively sale or it doesn't like kind of like if you're applying to UT they're not just gonna get the night because your wife no but I could because I'm black so my point is this when I'm sure you're aware of the Harvard lawsuit but gosh we have clocks we have planes going over a little bit difficult so sorry if I get this really close to your face right now for example they look to accept people based on race specifically black Americans and Hispanics at the exclusion of Asian Americans and white Americans particularly Asian Americans so with the same performance standards or even better performance standards they will exclude Asian Americans based on race as you mentioned earlier how you said that you don't think it's more than great I don't I think that it's morally right to kind of uplift some communities that are socially disadvantaged throughout the United States right world or whatever okay um and this is kind of a way to do that because people that benefit from affirmative action tend to graduate from college more than people that don't benefit from it so it helps like those people that are educated and that are more knowledgeable in like their area of study than other people from their same race or ethnicity that probably won't do as well because they yeah empirically that's not the case empirically there there are fewer for example black Americans in university than there were thirty five years ago I mean in university well that's that's across the board but there are fewer enrollees and higher education of black Americans and there were thirty five years ago and actually their graduation rates are lower and as manufacturer performance centers once they're in college is far lower for black Americans for example like a black American in law school right now is four times more likely to fail the bar exam than a white person that's not that didn't use to be the case the different disadvantages that they face when they grow up so you believe that a black American in 2019 faces more systemic disadvantages than in 1969 because in 1969 it wasn't that they graduated more they passed the exam more often I just think that like even through history the way that you know the laws and the policies in the eighties having structured there just hasn't been beneficial to African Americans like you right after they got out of like slavery up until now like up until now well no I mean up until like contemporary America like a few decades ago the whole civil rights okay but I believe that things have improved for african-americans like systemically but they still are like lagging in the race how so how do you believe they've improved and how do you believe they're they're lagging I guess I mean because like how we talked about graduation rates have increased in the past like few decades but that's likely haven't for blood well I'm confused by what you mean forget zooming graduation rates in university or even high school because high school graduation rates haven't they've declined well that's also because of the economic disadvantages that they face like public schools in how like their schools okay so like less funding yes exactly but there's actually significantly higher public funding to public schools in urban areas for example like Detroit where I was born right when my dad was raised that lived in Michigan for a long time the average per pupil spending in Detroit schools is I think eighth in the country at one point I was like top five or you look at Washington DC in areas that are primarily black they spend significantly more per pupil in Detroit about 14,000 right that's a lot more than a national but certainly more than white people but the graduation rate is I think 20 something percent for black Americans so the spending doesn't I think it's not necessary about spending okay so it's not economic that I want to here yeah it's an economic problem but not like that schools don't get enough I guess because african-americans and Hispanics tend to have different like problems growing up financially at home so they won't be as like ready to take on like high school level courses as like someone that's not experienced a if they don't have to work when they're like 1516 and why do you believe they face considering that they're not facing it at school they're not facing it systemically but you're saying they're facing economic disparity disadvantages at home why do you think that is I think it's just because of like how the like structure of like races and ethnicities is it's like wow I'm confused and I'm just I'm trying to understand your position because you kind of said like well if you look at the economic situation with schools we both agree it's not an economic situation with schools or public funding that's not the case so you said it's at home so if it's at home it's not structural why do you believe that there are more economic disadvantages to black Americans for example at home because when like those parents grew up and like when we got that education beginning I guess succeed at the same rate as like other places like white people or yeah white people end asian-americans and all that so just like in the past few years or in the past few decades the trend has continued and it's like in its bettering now but it's I don't think that affirmative action it's like racist or if it it's you know what I'm like I don't know I don't fully understand but I would I would disagree with you and that the trend has gotten worse since the 1960s I think it has I'm telling you empirically it has for black Americans actually the economic disadvantages have gotten worse for black American children than black American children in the 60s or 70s it's worse today they get more funding publicly they have affirmative action at school yes all those things they get more money through public funding 100% we agree but at home personally they do experience a disproportional amount of economic disadvantages compared to white families for Asian families I'm saying they actually have more opportunities economically they get more spending on their schools they have more applications that are accepted based on affirmative action do you know why do you know what the biggest the single biggest socioeconomic determining factor is in the country bar none according to Pew Research according to Heritage according to Barack Obama what is if you could pick one thing that would most significantly determine your economic outlook your criminal outlook your find out your your personal outlook in relationships what do you think that would be was it single-parent households yes its having two parents in the house I mean yeah that also goes back to like I guess different issues that don't I mean single-parent households like that's I guess individualistic what is individualistic but why do you think we've gone from the 1960s which sort of you brought up right pre discrimination and sort of the Voting Rights Act why do you think black Americans went from only a 25% single-parent household to nearly 80 percent today and that determines you being more poor that determines you ending up in prison that determines you developing depression that determines you having a successful marriage of your own why do you think that not individually statistically overwhelmingly it went from only 25 percent father Lester single parent households to nearly 80 and is not reflected in Asian households or white households isn't that important I mean if we agree why do you think why I can answer why it's happening but I want to before before I ask would you let's say you don't have the statistics okay but I can offer them to you afterward would you agree with the general premise that the idea of having a nuclear family with a mother and a father supporting children is a huge influence and their success in life and a huge advantage okay and let's assume I'm not lying on the statistics that black Americans have gone from very strong nuclear families to single parent or fatherless households okay so let's assume we both agree on that so we both agree then that it would be important to observe that problem and say okay how can we reverse this trend because that would do more than affirmative action on campus or more than public school funding we both agree on that okay so the reason why is because in the 60s as a way that you know the pendant you've heard the sort of analogy the pendulum swings both ways it was discriminatory so to try and correct previous discrimination they started under Lyndon Johnson with the model Cities program actually Detroit was picked first because it was the wealthiest city in the country in the 1950s so government programs centralized urban planning started in 1960s and a modern pher program which incentivized and encouraged single-parent households so in trying to correct the systemic oppression of the past they instated a policy which I believe is racist by definition to fix it moving forward which led to unbelievably negative economic outcomes and socio-economic outcomes for black Americans and that is mirrored very much by affirmative action on campus to fix what happened before let since to institute a racially exclusive policy going forward my point is that in the economy at large when you look at the welfare modern welfare program the model Cities program it harmed black Americans at reparable II for decades and affirmative action we're seeing the ripples of it doing that exact same thing I don't think affirmative action cause I don't think no I would say what caused the single-parent household Urfa is is a modern welfare system I don't think that affirmative action is like never to negatively affected black Americans or Hispanic Americans because it's given them more opportunities to go to get a better education and get a better job so just within that like there are statistics that prove that people like I get how I said earlier that benefit from affirmative action to end up getting higher paid higher paid jobs graduate more and tend to do better then those that did a benefit from no not really economically and if it is I would say that the statistics show it's negligible and it's much much much smaller than had we not implemented big government programs that encourage fatherless and single-parent households that's my problem that's my point is it mirrors the same big government solutions to prior discrimination on campus and it's only ever had a net negative outcome and as far as it having positive outcomes I was just Achtung with Tina about this you'd make more go into a trade school the idea that a college degree is a determining factor of your economic status it's just not true today I mean yes you know because it you wanna be like a professional you know you're gonna be a lawyer doctor you need to go through the schooling to sure people trade lawyer doctor sure but I do agree that sometimes a college degree in like specific areas doesn't really right benefit someone so I want understand your premise let's use lawyer as an example do you believe because that's actually a very specific example I brought up overall specifically with with black Americans since we've been talking about that fifty percent of black students right now in higher education make up the bottom twenty percent of class in law fifty percent make up the bottom ten percent a black student right now in the United States is four times as likely to fail the bar exam now that happens after University right so they've already gotten in the bar is not racist the university isn't racist why do you think they are failing the bar exam at certain such an astronomical rate in comparison to Asians and white Americans because again how they grew up and how like since they were raised compared to white Americans and Asian Americans and that doesn't like I don't think that because they were a disadvantage then they should not be given that like affirmative action because then affirmative action does help them kind of but it doesn't sit at the end it doesn't they fail the bar at four times the rate of white students not you're talking about like everything Americans in general on college campus yeah yes they perform very poorly on the objective metrics afterward because they're mismatched with Asian American if you talk about black Americans that benefit from the formative action yeah it's a negligible it's negligible and it is at the expense of other people so that's where it goes to it being morally correct do you believe for example well sir can I ask you do you believe that it's morally correct that an Asian American should have to get like an Asian female right now applying to let's say Harvard has to get a thirteen fifty on our SATs to be accepted when a black student only needs eleven hundred yeah well do you think it's morally correct that a black student or Hispanic student faces like racial bias when taking the SAT through like wording to the language that is used I mean it's it's like both a returned agent agent zone I mean let me ask you this do you think that it's fair that an asian-american woman has to score higher on the SATs than a white male because that's a consequence of affirmative action well I mean if you think you can't really like measure fairness or because obviously like every single side of like a political issue or like just an issue in general is going to favor one side or the other in some way so there's gonna be like a pro and a con to like each issue I guess not always no no you see what's that's interesting say favor aside what does that mean by definition favor favoritism it's it's something it's favoritism it's I'm just saying that like okay well then explain for me cuz he's just in favor and I wanted to explain why I disagree with you so let's remove favor you just said any policy will favor a set so what did you mean to say I mean I mean like any sorry it's cuz my friend is like I just didn't like any like for example okay I lost my Truffaut because of it so Asian you only give you some hot coffee you can throw in your friends face I know so Asian Americans and whites I don't think that they experienced the disadvantage that like Hispanics and black people experience like growing up and you know through through their childhood and up until like internment camps Chinese immigration policy no internment camps isn't like the same thing as like but like the experience of we should Latino Americans would have Latin Latin American immigrants experience that would be on par with internment camps or bans on immigration from China which we experience for a very long time what if Latin Americans experienced even comparable to that I can't think of anything I mean I'm personally from Mexico and it's like I had to come to nice because of like the drug cartel violence in so it's like yeah we don't missus whoever nice to the experience don't be like I guess you're in the US but no you haven't but what I mean like so why would it be our job to correct the wrongs of your terrible corrupt government in Mexico well it's not correct they're like wrongs it's to forgive like I guess a fair chance for these people like grew up disadvantaged we just talked about fairness fairness is also like trying to give everyone like an equal opportunity yes that's equal opportunity I am stressing equal opportunity you were stressing equal outcomes equal opportunity means we only accept the people who perform the best by metrics period I don't think his growing up get equal opportunity as compared to whites and asian-americans really so you believe that that Latin American what's latin-american cuz Latin America is tell us a Latin American Americans what's the term we should use Mexican Americans Latin American Americans you believe that they don't that they face they have faced more systemic discrimination in the United States the nation Americans I mean because I look at them and here's one thing that's really important to me I look at Asian Americans who are citizens who were put in internment camps wrongfully I look at Chinese immigrants who wanted to migrate here legally and could not for decades and I look at Mexican Americans who come here illegally and then are granted amnesty and I see that as a much greater advantage than an Asian American who is not even one generation removed from an internment camp or barred from migrating to the country it doesn't seem to me that's very fair I just think that yes asian-americans don't face like you said like as much systemic inequalities then like that's your Hispanics because even like whenever you want to get a job or you're getting I don't know you wanna like it and you want to interfere like a physician within 10 seconds like if the interviewer sees that like you're black or you're expanding like they can have this bias towards you and you know believe that applies towards Asians I think they actually have a positive place okay well I can tell you where they don't and applying to college you know so you were talking about first off potential anecdotal situations that you believe and it's not supported by data you believe that when interviewing for job interviews Latin Americans or black Americans might be viewed unfavorably let me just do some yes or no real quick I want to make sure I understand your position here okay because I want to see where we disagree it seems to me you were saying that you believe when applying for a job a black American or a Latin American may face some personal discrimination that an Asian American wouldn't yes yes okay yes you believe that okay there is no empirical evidence to support that now let me respond with I would present you an example where Asian Americans absolutely do face systemic observable discrimination on a level not seen by black or Latin Americans and that's when applying for college it's not a maybe it's we know that they're discriminated against I mean that seems right I mean if I can't really answer the eternal question because you can't really like to explain what you mean by like yes and no so okay an Asian American right now can apply to the exact same University to apply right here they have to score higher on standardized testing and they have to have better performance more extracurriculars than a black American they will be discriminated against because they are asian-american and they have to work harder to get into college well they're not being discriminated against the other like ethnicity group is giving like it's not like again it's like UTSA discriminating against whites or Asians yes and Harvard is specifically that's the lawsuit yes they are that's my point yes they are I just don't I don't see it as like discrimination towards them like I don't I don't see it as like reverse racism whatever I don't I didn't say reverse racism I know but like it's racism to say to an Asian you have to get a 1350 on an SAT and then say to a black person you only need an 1100 that's racism for me for me it's like else can you understand why I see that as racism and many asian-americans would see it as racism I can see the point in like maybe affirmative action needs I guess improvement and like they need to like a different kind of policy that kind of benefits everybody and not just like ethnic minorities that are disadvantaged but that's interesting how would you implement that like what kind of a as opposed to affirmative action now which is based on race it's interesting let's explore that what do you think would be the best way to do it I think that we need to focus on like how you're talking about like all that going up I think that education systems do a poor job of educating kids even if I can public schools you know teachers don't like they need to realize that sometimes those kids at home don't have value systems moral systems implemented like in there I guess at your household so they need to be aware of that infant so I want to make sure I understand you're saying that black Americans and Latin American Americans don't have values instilled in them in their household no no it's not that it's a-okay how you were talking about single parent household and how some like that's a big determining factor of like economic status all right well then that also can Alterman however obviously how kids grow up and whether they have like maybe a sec I want to use at home or whether they face like emotional like problems and all of that like that needs to be taken in account too so in other words you would like to see a system or let's say a white I consider some white white trailer trash trailer park kid who doesn't have a dad and has an abusive mother who went to a really crappy school in a rural area should be admitted before a mexican-american immigrant whose family is very wealthy I don't think that they should be a minute before I think that like public schools need to change like their way of I guess teaching especially like an elementary school where like he's the mind of like the child can be great or like change like different ways that'd be you like I'm asking about you saying changing affirmative action you sounded like he was talking about changing it to socioeconomic status rather than race no you still think it should be race I don't think I think it should be like something the more towards socioeconomic status because that's because sometimes affirmative action doesn't even benefit like disadvantaged African Americans it benefits people African Americans a core disadvantage white Americans yeah exactly more disadvantaged Asian American so if we're talking about like disadvantaged people in general I think that affirmative action should shift towards like the though not necessarily like you said race but more towards economic statuses right so we should have lower standards for example for let's say an Asian American or a white American poor child from a single-parent household than a wealthy Mexican immigrant from a dual parent household so you different socioeconomic status we would give the preferential treatment to the Asian or the white person in that case I mean I would say so just because they grew up in a disadvantaged way so they won't have better education than that way the wealthy person the Mexican right okay so you believe we should change affirmative action from race-based to socio-economic base yes okay and then we could look at fixing socio-economic problems like doing away with welfare completely so that we actually start D incentivizing single-parent households okay yeah I know that I know a lot of a lot of Latin American I see a Mexican American is that allowed okay because YouTube is of Mexican is a pejorative if we so I can say Mexican American is not offensive so because yeah I know yeah I know Mexican American households place a strong importance often on family values and have big families and often have mothers and fathers oh do you yeah exactly do they all live in like the same house like nine trucks in the driveway they used to like my mom she's she has like seven and they all used to like live together and like went because I'm like one of the youngest cousins yeah but when she had like my older brother that's a thirtysomething and all those like they also used to live together so all the cars in the driveway and I'm there yeah oh yeah I know their areas in Texas roots like okay so this is clearly a Mexican area because there's like 50 cars out in front of this house okay well I understand that and I do understand too that many Mexican Americans who come here and want to work hard yeah have a problem with the welfare system as it exists and I think we would find some common ground on that because often many Mexican Americans don't benefit from those same welfare programs sometimes culturally because of a sense of pride and they want to work for it but they're also it could be argued a correlation between that and stronger family households with mexican-american family immigrants and that's why I think that maybe you see for example yourself where your parents first generation or you first-generation Mexican immigrant me okay so you came here so there is actually a statistic it's kind of interesting that mexican-american immigrants first generation their children do better than with black Americans immigrants or black Americans sorry even born here then their next generation does and again that could largely be attributed to strong families which a big part of that is is you know that is what you kind of go back to my point of like having those single-parent households increase from a 20% to 80 yeah in black American households yeah and mexican-americans like tend to put a like focus on family value so I think that's also white like personally I grew up kind of very like driven kind of like Institute parts in schools that kind of not improve that has like teachers aware of like different problems that these kids new face yeah I'd like a general way to like teach kids right not true the problem that is that would be seen as judgmental Ryan right now we can't teach people that a mommy and a daddy are the best way to raise children because some people get offended even though we know that would happen let me ask you this when you list could you mentioned affirmative action and I don't know whether you have or haven't benefited when you think of all of your privileges in your life and I think of all of my privilege and I don't mean the sense of white privilege I just mean privileges blessings when you think of them can you think of anything that has benefited you more in molding and shaping who you are than having a mom and a dad probably one of the biggest determining factors so what I'm saying is rather than viewing things for the prism of race on campus after the problem let's try and focus on that and I think a lot better outcomes across the board I think we disagree on some but I think I'm glad that we could agree in spirit on that yeah Thank You Ali thank you so much appreciate it god bless [Music] hey there YouTube you if you like this installment I've changed my mind click on one of these other installments playing in a box it's the only way you can find it because if you search it it may not show up because it's controversial and YouTube wants to UM discourage that the controversy to change my mind playing by the rules we just don't know what they are subscribing to notifications

Channel: StevenCrowder

Views: 2,835,300

Rating: 4.9294834 out of 5

Keywords: steven crowder, crowder, stephen crowder, louder with crowder, LwC, mug club, Change My Mind, Crowder Confronts, comedy, politics, news, liberal, libertarian, funny conservative, current events, fake news, affirmative action, racist, college, university, college admissions, supreme court, harvard university, asian american, higher education, discrimination, race, education, admissions, debate, how to debate, crowderbits, free speech, political news

Id: ZheWh1cMOFM

Length: 82min 16sec (4936 seconds)

Published: Fri Dec 27 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/AntonioOfVenice]

That first loser is an absolute drone. Baizuo incarnate.

[u/RavenRonin]

Affirmative Action is racist towards everyone:

- It's racist towards students from more academically successful ethnic backgrounds like Whites and Asians by denying them education that they deserve if they meet the test requirements for attending whatever school they want to go to.

- It's racist towards student from less academically successful ethnic backgrounds like Blacks and Hispanics by implying that these minorities can't compete on a fair level and instead need far lower requirements.

It's incredibly insulting to everyone involved. This is how you INCREASE racial prejudice rather than decrease it.

[u/evilplushie]

That female was not a debate champion. Her shirt lies.

Also, wtf woman. Black people get into harvard and fail bar exams after graduation, it's the fault of their deficient childhood

[u/ManUnderMask]

Affirmative Action is people telling minorities they're too stupid, lazy, or weak to succeed on their own.

[u/Jesus_marley]

The biggest issue with AA is that even if you succeed purely on merit, that success will always be tainted by the question of whether you actually succeeded on merit.

[u/BaconCatBug]

Raphael is a legend.

[u/[deleted]]

It is racism, it punishes people for their race

[u/[deleted]]

with gender and race now being "fluid", anybody can be a gay black trans disabled native american!

​

#Freedom #MyBodyMyChoice