3 Hours of HOT TAKES for 40K 10th Edition

foreign [Music] ER podcast episode 71. I'm your host Brad this is my co-host Eric how's it going this has been several weeks of us waiting around for all of the information to come out and now it is finally time to celebrate 10th edition is upon us it is time for us to eat drink and be merry and give atrocious hot takes and terrible opinions yeah the uh points finally just dropped so it's hot takes time so without any further Ado let's get into this sounds good all right before we get too into this and completely go off the deep end let's talk about some basic rules for how we'll do the episode and before all that let's start off with some words of warning number one this episode is going to be very opposite of last week this will be very unedited unscripted and we're probably going to be doing like the loosest most Bare Bones editing job to get this one out the door early so that you guys can get it when it is hottest and most interesting so thank the editor this is still going to be a rush job and forgive all the errors you find from this point on that made it in creaking chairs airplane noises whatever clicking on the keyboard clicking on the mouse will happen a million times we gave you with a warning you know and uh I think that that's that's like signing the TOs now we can do whatever and as a separate warning if you're new to 40K and like clicking on this because you enjoyed our intro episode last week do not take any of the negative things said here here seriously this Edition looks incredibly fun yes every Army looks like if you enjoy it as an army even if the rules aren't currently the hottest in their index they will be fine don't worry about it enjoy yourself it's gonna be a wild ride six months from now nothing is going to be the same if we talk about something being broken it doesn't mean you have to go buy it right now it's going to most likely be Nerf to Oblivion by the time you end up building it or we're just dead wrong yeah that's the other thing is like this is hot takes we haven't tested anything we haven't really had enough time to fully digest what the interactions between certain things do and importantly everyone else on the internet who's giving their opinions right now has not played a game of 10. they have no idea what's good or what's bad what's under costed what's over costed we're all doing educated guesses right now so huge grain of salt but 10th edition does look fun just the core fundamentals I'm excited this is going to be mostly positive I'm going to go off the deep end with some rants of specific things but I'm really excited I think in doing this we're gonna probably go with some basic General thoughts and then like faction by faction there's an army rule Detachment rule for the index which has the rule the strategy on enhancements and then we'll probably bring up a couple units from each just general ideas of things that are interesting or how the Army's kind of feeling and I mean that's at least the plan we'll see what the hell happens and I'd like to wrap up each of the armies with like a general grade for the index whatever scale we come up with all right that should be interesting to see what we get on that I hope we start off with letter grades in the middle we're doing like good bad and ugly buckets and by the end we're trying to get out a tier list that's about right it depends if I crack open any more drinks I can't talk about because this part will be on YouTube too early so with that General 10th edition ideas and thoughts uh I like about 80 to 90 percent of the changes yeah I really really really like having indexes a lot I am a big fan of them as well I kind of really wish ninth had had them I think the unit cards are really cool and splitting out the weapon profile from the unit itself I think that'll work out pretty well I'm not sure yet about leadership if it actually changes anything I think battle shock is my giant question of the addition I was more down on it when it was first shown off I think now that I've seen all the indexes I'm very intrigued by it I actually think losing your objective secured or whatever we want to call the OC characteristic yeah I think losing that is not the most important part of it the most important part in most cases is going to be losing the ability to use stratagems on the unit right and the the fallback thing is another thing of like you have to take the desperate breakout or whatever desperate Escape yeah I think battle shock is interesting but I'm not sure it actually matters for most times kind of thing but I have some concerns that I'm just basing that off of how much leadership didn't matter yes and that's my problem too is leadership never mattered because we all played around it yeah battle shock seems very different though because it triggers differently and it has in my opinion opinion more consequence even though I know technically you could have something horrible happen with leadership it almost never mattered right and there wasn't really any play around it kind of thing I will say if battle shock is worthless several armies are far worse off but I don't think that will be the case I'm at least interested to see you know it's one of those that like with the new cards we've got leadership and it might actually mean something now so that would be cool it does have the downside of how the test is taken that your low roll Miracle dice are less useful not that it really matters but it's honestly it's a lot cleaner now it's like if you roll high it's good if you rolled low it's bad yeah it's fine I think like as far as like negative things go that I'm not thrilled about or have suspicions about I feel like certain indexes are going to run their course long before codex comes I worry about certain factions who are not in the first year who are going to be living in very basic detachment choices I see what you're saying like the actual Army building process is too overly simplified with the core Detachment yeah well especially for some of these factions that's definitely true yeah okay I'm very biased with drukkari drukari is looking pretty good we'll get into it in detail on what's good and bad but the Detachment is like awful it's real [ __ ] bad and I think every Drew Carey player no matter what brand of Drew car you're in you're not happy about it because it's essentially the [ __ ] hold hands all get along Detachment and it's like I just want to run the part of the army I want to run I don't want to be explicitly forced to try to run all three to maximize my Detachment rule especially because like the less of it you run not only does the Detachment rule gets worse your stratagems just flat out don't work and your relics are your enhancements now you get like one yeah there are more than just rakari but Jakari is one where I think it'll feel great short term it's gonna feel rough long term it's one of those that like it'll be fine for a year a year and a half a year and a half's pushing it if it was your only Army you'd be very bored by then yeah there's gonna be some armies that it's going to be waiting for quite a while and there's definitely gonna be some that you're creative building in lists are going to be limited so yeah that's kind of annoying indexes can't be full complexity of a codex or they would just be the Codex which they should be and everyone should have their rules for the whole Edition so they can actually play the game together at the same Pace but that's a different problem one step at a time indexes is still a step up we're happy right the core rules having a bunch of new keywords I like it I like them but it's confusing [Laughter] my problem with them isn't them right now my problem with them is I was reading indexes twice because I got halfway through an index before I realized assault changed when someone else was confused why I didn't like something okay and like the way these got shown off to us was like in a vacuum they said look at this ability that this Bolter has right and that was like four or five weeks ago it was like right when the Edition was shown off and it was like cool keywords exist but it was like you weren't really sinking them in and then there was never a like indexes come out next week here's all the keywords so that you actually pay attention to them I think that's why I don't like it right now is because there wasn't one of those here's a spreadsheet of all of the keywords and here's what they do like I had to create one of my own basic ones and I'm not happy with it yet this is a general thing but it's very [ __ ] funny to me on our hot takes for 10th edition we were joking about oh God is two pages of rules and enough and we were like well it's enough if it's like two pages made by an engineer yeah not when GW takes an entire page to write six simple stratagems or spends an entire page on a piece of artwork yes and then in the core rules when you're going through the keywords you would be like oh I want all the keywords in a nice table I can look at yeah no they're spelled out there's like flavor text between the abilities to go like the astartes are so good at bullshitting that they're able to make their guns shoot twice sometimes I hate it and then it goes into sustained hits I like having the examples in there that's cool the examples are fine but then the biggest slap in the [ __ ] face is in the middle of the keyword section they take a break to do like a full page spread picture yep and it's like [ __ ] this is the part I need stop this [ __ ] that goes up front with the stupid [ __ ] art and lore [ __ ] yeah it's one of those like when I'm playing I need this as a reference not an art piece so I would appreciate the reference yes I want an appendix I want you know here's your table of stuff yeah and it's like this big fluffy four-page spread we found out like certain abilities when they're only in certain phases are in different parts of the core rule book all sorts of stuff yeah I don't know it's it's good I am happy to see that they've decided to incorporate these keywords so long as they don't cheat and make it so that blast is one thing but in a different rule set in a different codex it means something different we kind of got a couple things like that so there's like the fortification rule that like Space Marines got and tyranid's got and they're a universal keyword that's only on that data sheet on that ability they do the same thing but they're flavored differently so they have different names then there's stuff in the necron part and I think necron's was written Dead first I would put money on it because necrons has some weird formatting issues that no other Army had that feels like this got written while they were finalizing the rule book for what indexes would look like and no one went back and touched up this couple pages I noticed it on I mean maybe there were a few that I was like this looks like not the final pass kind of thing but like there's already the minor things they're not big they don't need to be fixed in many cases there's a couple things of like they had to keep repeating the if something only has a starting strength of one it's under half strength for this rule if it has less than half its wounds remaining and that should have just been in the core rules when discussing half strength but they didn't put it there I assume because it would make basic battle shock trigger that way but it's on like every [ __ ] ability and now you're gonna be like oh it's on every ability that's fine except for when it's not yeah I noticed that same thing in Orcs there's the transport stuff and they list out like these are what can be transported and stuff and Gaz is a special case yeah because he shouldn't be able to get transported so they make him cost a ton to transport so you just put them alone yeah he's like 18 to transport or whatever so every transport that could take him or has 18 or more could take him and it's like oh it gas costs this much to take all the ones that are less than 18 don't talk about them so he's just an infantry so a truck could run gas and a bunch of other stuff I could toss gas in a truck as rules written it's obviously not intended he's supposed to need a battle wagon to move yeah More Counting of the troop count because everyone else that lists it is like gas costs this many spots and it's more than that dedicated transport or that transport has so I get why it's not on there but it's like things like that it shows that this is definitely like one of those like this is the first time they've done these major changes like there's going to be some of these oh we obviously intended it that way but but that gets into what I consider a good thing which is the Death Watch elephant in the room which happened earlier this week right death watches index came out it had a strategy minute that was [ __ ] hilariously broken beyond belief literally 30 to 40 mortal wounds from a single five-man shooting and by two days later the index had been updated to fix it so that it now doesn't read that way and they put a little note of like hey the index is updated get the new one it doesn't have the broken rule that is one of the major benefits of providing rules digitally like we keep saying they need to do yeah so I'm very happy about all that like I know there's issues with like some of the rhinos have the firing deck too they're supposed to have other ones they forgot to write it there's little typos all over the place that I am sure when they do a pass in a few weeks maybe they wait one month after the Edition officially launches sometimes they're anal about that they may fix all the indexes that way and that's great that we can have that now because it used to be like if it was screwed up you had to wait for an official Errata for your rule book and every once in a while there was actual like what's the actual intent of what's written we have differing ideas on what the intent was and as it's written it does something different but like what's it actually intended for and it's nice to have the option that we don't have to wait forever for them to fix it kind of thing like so I mean overall I'm excited for a lot of the changes to the core rules and it does seem a lot more streamlined phases work pretty well I think that there's going to be some people that are going to be annoyed but they'll learn it and it'll work out better yeah I think a lot of stuff moved the AOS Direction which is for the most part a good thing like yeah AOS is an easier to balance game like there's a reason that things have more solidified win rates competitively in AOS but I think with that we can probably go into faction by faction kind of thing because we'll hit more of the general ideas as we do that I'm sure oh yeah because I I've got rants on certain things still psychic but we'll get there when it's relevant yeah so what do you want to start with let's cover Space Marines and then we'll quickly mention each specific flavor of the Baskin Robbins and then we'll move on to the rest of the armies all right so Space Marines the actual Army rule will be oath of moment it's not my favorite Army role to be honest I know a lot of space ring players are big fans of it and I'm happy they are cool I mean it's it's pretty simple and clean honestly you choose an enemy unit and you get reroll hits and wounds I think it's better in conjunction with other rules which is always a good thing for the Army rule gets complimented by the data sheets and stuff to make it feel better than it started out at yeah absolutely if you can build from a good base and it enhances the actual core rules then yeah it's always better and I feel like this one actually pulls it off pretty well there was a couple units I was really happy with specifically because they don't care about the Army rule which sounds stupid but other moment is like a one unit Target yeah and while deleting a night a turn is great if your opponent properly he has like 10 to 12 units you preferably on turn two take out more than one of them that is true it is one of those like this is the way to Target something that might not have been dealt with cleanly and let your general units that wouldn't have taken advantage of this deal with other things yeah so your data sheets can complement your army rules some of them some of them just complement it correctly like making it feel better but then you've got units like eradicators that are accenting it with having their full rerolls to hit and wound against Monsters and vehicles and being spoilers a cheap anti-tank piece so now you can have your oath of moment Target on this important thing and your eradicators still get essentially Oath a moment when they go to Target the thing they should be targeting and not using them to blow away infantry yeah I mean I think it's one of those that it's not the most glamorous of army rules but it does its job well yeah it is very strong it plays into the whole situational awareness space frame tactics thing I like that yeah I think overall it's a good army rule that can get accented well so it's fine yeah so the Detachment rule combat doctrines I really like this one for a basic one it does exactly what you want out of Space Marines it gives you options and they're the separate things Devastator you shoot in advance tactical you can charge when you fall back like you skipped assault the most important one Eric for one time in the game you get to advance in charge a key important little rule that one holding up the entire Detachment a little important role but I mean it's one of those that like it feels like Space Marines because you get to choose which one you need to use at any time yes and importantly it offers Choice over the game it feels great tactical I love it just through and through it's a great Detachment rule when it comes to their strats spoilers for when we get to the rest of the Space Marine indexes we found out that apparently several strats will be Universal and you just change some of them out with your with your Detachment which I actually think is a good thing I think that's a great thing there's going to be some strats that factions kind of rely on just because that's how the the Army Works yes if only one Detachment got rotate ion Shields as a night player you're kind of [ __ ] that would be hilarious serious you would never choose any of the other ones so that's the nice part with the space frame one showing us that armor of contempt is a core one they've all got armor of contempt it is also by far the most spammable one in my opinion you're going to be seeing people say that a lot just like you heard Trends human physiology in every [ __ ] game yeah but it's not bad no it's good to have core ones too from a complexity standpoint yeah if every Detachment in a codex let's say they've all got six to eight that's probably about right yeah if every one of those had six to eight unique stratagems you'd go mad it's not a how many do I have access to in the middle of the game it's also my opponent is playing that faction he played last game he played these six stratagems right we're playing a new game different sub faction and now he's playing six different stratagems I have to learn it kind of goes to the 9th Edition ad Mech to a certain point where he was like I don't care anymore just tell me what happens so while I enjoy that you're getting more than six goes at having stratagems by having multiple attachments when you get your codex I'm glad it's not every one of them changes every time yeah because I at a certain point there would be some of them like armor of contempt would have been a stratagem in the other ones but to make it slightly different it would have been slightly different like there would have been some caveat or you know what it would cost two CP instead of one I mean yeah we we saw our Murph contempt in what I'll call reverse armor of contempt we'll get a more Universal name for it later it's in about half the indexes and some of them cost 2cp like you were saying other ones yeah yeah so the more that we're able to accept similarities and embrace it is good I like that the overall stratagems that Space Marines have are good options they're fine they're mostly universal yeah the ones that are limited are limited for very obvious reason perfectly good strats yeah enhancements only one of them is limited to a character type everyone that is is going to get reviewed negatively by me at least in an index in a codex you can have have a slant attachment where you really want like this is the librarian Detachment okay but in your index a limited enhancement that can only be taken on one unit type pisses me off now it matters way less for Space Marines than everyone else in addition and it's a captain which is like the core space green leader so fine I can accept things like Captain just because it's such a you're going to be using those kind of thing but it is a negative of like come on man this is supposed to be an index this is supposed to be the more generic one let's follow through yeah and I do hope that certain enhancements repeat over certain detachments I don't think we've seen it outright yet but I'm hoping that's the case just because certain ones are going to be so core to your army being good like unless they cause literally 300 points yeah that you're going to get stuck playing one attachment just like whenever you had like uh if you had a redeploy that was attached to one of your sub factions in ninth guess which sub faction you're playing Edition just because it's clearly the best one yeah I see what you're saying and there's certain basic ones like artifice or armor where if you've got an attachment you've only got three enhancements that fit it throwing that in the fourth slot is generally fine and forgivable you're like cool I have access to artifice or armor yeah it's one of those like it's nice to have this as an option I guess I don't really care the other three are flavorful this one's a general use okay I wanted this one this game yeah I mean the enhancements for Space Marines show Space Marine things they're fine they're Point costed reasonable maybe a little high for Bolter discipline but I'm not too worried about the points on any enhancement looking through all the different index points like I have a feeling the way it's going to work out is you're going to get a list where you've got less than 100 points left yeah there you go I can put one more shitty little Unit in or I can buy three enhancements and you just buy three enhancements put it on three characters make them feel special be happy competitively we can get into when that'll be correct or not I'm truly not going to care certain factions are going to take advantage of it better just because for example custodies is going to have points left over yeah that's true too it does help especially custodies nights things that we're famous for my perfect list is uh 60 points short and I can't add any more units so what do I do with it well here's some enhancements go wild but I think I agree with you like generally it's going to be fine there shouldn't be too much of a cost to just take those points use it if you find it's useful kind of thing and I guess what we're on the subject because it's going to affect space brains a lot here the way points work yeah it's interesting I don't hate it okay so it's aosified for those of who don't know previously in 40K if you're new you would pay points for every model in a unit yep so an intercessor would be I don't know 20 points a model and so if you had two you would just take that multiply it by the number you had and it would scale and every unit had a minimum count you had to take in a maximum and then you had different War gear where you put the wrong pistol on your guy and it costs five more points now stuff like that yeah that's not a thing anymore all of that's gone we now have this is how many points it costs for this Loadout essentially if it's a character it's the one model but if it's a squad you get five models 10 models and like this is how many points it costs for that yeah and anything in between costs the higher amount so you're always going to run the 10 models except for in like weird cases you may short yourself a model for some obscure reason like fitting in a rhino or whatever yeah the interesting thing is it's not just five and ten they did split it up as needed kind of thing they definitely tried not always this is the thing I think most likely is going to change and age this episode very fast if we get into details there are some pretty obvious ones that are like they forgot how many were in a box looking at you custodies yeah custodies has one death guard there's a few that they'll get fixed over the addition it's fine aosifying points I don't have too much issue with AOL was very fun good format and War gear was essentially free for the last however many months we've been playing it so it's not like that's a big killing Point like how it's been it continues to be that way it's still fine the aosifying Locking you to certain unit sizes I don't have too much problem with it it's it all depends honestly for me on how deep the faction is yes that's a great example so like Space Marines you're good you can figure out how to make a list that's interesting and unique and your little take on it you've got 180 options Bhutan well you're uh you're gonna have a bit of trouble yeah it's always been the wider the range of the faction the more chance it has to be healthy right this exemplifies that of if you've got five units all with very static sizes there's only so many combinations yeah it's one of those like you only have so many knobs to tweak kind of thing and more knobs is always better than less knobs come on Eric loves a good knob I mean I'm good with trying it out this way and we'll see how it actually feels at worst there's nothing in the document that says they can never add more gear costs to things that truly need it a lot of the things people had issue with tend to be old ass units that did not get properly changed to like heirloom weapons and stuff and have strictly better options still and it's like yeah they should have been changed to heirloom weapons but this is our second chance at this the first one was you know part way through ninth when they started doing like the chaos Terminators having only one load out yeah and I think it's showing it as promised we're getting close it probably needs a whole addition to even it out there's a couple ancient awful [ __ ] Space Marines who just need to go the way of the dinosaur because the problem is not so much how these rules are handled it's how these rules have to interact with a 30 year old kid yeah it is making things difficult but overall I'm good with it and let's not get too deep into Space Marines point-costed units type thing but I feel like generally the units feel reasonable like the the points and expectation like it's not like any of the main units or main models like drastically changed from what was previously Terminators are pretty expensive now by space brain standards they got a lot better that's true you're not wrong but it is one of those like it feels like the points increased and they got better but at like the same rate so like their Terminators turned into like our Terminators and start and costing that way wait yeah which so I I guess it is different for Space Marines but it feels like that should have just been what it was but there's some problematic units that I'm sure are going to get The Bad Touch uh I would not be heavily investing in the dudes with the rocket launchers that I've already forgotten the name of the new ones yeah the the ugly rocket launcher guys whatever I think like I said generally there's no real major concerns with uh Space Marines units they are costed like they were a ninth I will say a couple things look a little worse than I think they would have been historically but we're going to find as we go through every one of these indexes if you have a lot of mobility and you're a melee threat you are paying more for that than you used to they're trying to make that cost more than it did in ninth so flying around with thunder hammers ain't gonna be cheap right so okay let's move on to some of the some people who fly around with thunder hammers sure let's go to blood angels the red thirst all of these have the same Space Marine Army rule including Death Watch even though they get an extra Army rule that one makes me mad I'm on team delete Death Watch but whatever the Detachment rules are interesting the thing that I have noticed and I'm pretty sure everyone's reading this the same way or I'm about to start a fight in the comments section on YouTube the way it reads you can take your blood angels units and if you don't like the blood angels Detachment rule you can play them in any standard space ringed attachment you can't play them in the Death Watch Detachment you cannot play those in the space walls attachment if you take blood angels exclusive models that have the blood Angel tag right if you take a model that has that tag it can't be in another specific tag yes but they can go back to the basic one it doesn't matter so much for blood angels because I think you're just happy to have the sons of sanguineous it's just a good Detachment for blood angels and if you want to switch things up you can go back to being a core space range just fine right and you don't have to bring your blood angels exclusive unit you can just play as red Space Marines it's fine that's my general thought for all of the supplemental versions of space brains I like blood angels blood angels and Dark Angels are just Space Marine plus it's literally you could be a Space Marine Army and play this Detachment it's got no downside to play it you just switch out your Detachment it's just a second attachment space Rings get to play until October or whenever the Codex actually comes out but I'm betting October again it's got a nice flavor to it it feels slightly different and it feels like you're trying to be a blood Angel instead of just generic Space Marine but I don't know it's perhaps it's just not something I care about look it's World eaters but loyalist like right when you get down to it they're the same faction if you want to play melee bloodthirsty space brains you can just go into this Detachment and if you want you could buy these extra models for it yeah I mean I don't have anything else to say on on blood angels no not really I mean uh segmentary card are pointed to Oblivion just holy hell yeah there's a few units that are like being punished I assume I don't know if they're trying to make sanguinary guard feel bad so that when blood angels get an actual codex they can release the new sanguinary guard kit give it a new Loadout and then give it like 50 less points so you assume it's the greatest thing ever maybe they've done this before I'm going off history it doesn't deserve to be 40 something points a model right now no it doesn't whatever that's fine it's okay to have some units that are bad beats when we got into like the whole people complaining about certain old sheets death company should have got heirlooms blades there's no reason that they should have thunder hammer versus chain sword as a question it should just be one stat line fits all they did it with almost every other marine and they just forgot this one it feels like there was some type of internal fight to make Space Marines actually turn to the generic kind of thing and then somehow a few of them slipped through the cracks how could that happen with only 480 data sheets yeah it can be changed later without too much issue so not too worried about that yeah but their Detachment it's just a good bonus attachment yeah let's do Dark Angels just because it's right there with it it's an extra option to play your generic Space Marines if you want to play this way and if you're playing Dark Angels exclusive units it's got some fun flavor it's very clearly your all-in-one Detachment it's got no Deathwing slant Raven Wing slant anything like that this is your generic we are the Dark Angels hoorah yeah I think depending on if battle shock actually matters or not they could be very annoying at battle shock is something very common but if it's not then it could be like a that doesn't matter that kind of thing it's a really fun theme for this faction is better battle shocked like it's it's like reverse UNO card I like that that's kind of cool very fun and you can just try it out if you're playing Space Marines try this Detachment instead of your vanilla one if you get bored it's kind of why I get annoyed the Space Marines gets the first codex because they've got so many backups right and it's like if everyone else had this many backups we wouldn't be as worried about not getting a codex for two years or four guard oh that's brutal uh Space Wolves Space Wolves have restrictions they're mostly old Marine related except for you can't take an apothecary that's just a space Wolf thing they're stupid lore their Detachment ability is probably weaker than just going generic and taking in your your advance in charge turn like it just is weaker I think maybe certain lists will be able to take advantage of it I guess but it's I think what you were going to say is it's flavorful it is flavorful and that's why I'm like I don't really care it's not that much worse you can still have a lot of fun in this Detachment and if you get bored of it for some reason go play in the generic attachment right I will say as a man who loves himself a Dreadnought yeah Space Wolves Is My Jam right now because Bjorn [ __ ] murderfang also [ __ ] you could play a mono Dreadnought Army in Space Wolves and be just super happy fair enough I definitely want to try a Space Wolves all Dreadnought list I am sure our local space Wolf player is already chomping at the bit to do it himself so I'm sure I'm going to have to play against it before I get to try it you're gonna be second in line on that one I'm going to have to get plowed by it before I get my turn yeah the points cost for those are actually perfectly reasonable they're okay I'm not saying it's going to be the best way to play Space walls I'm just saying it's gonna be the funnest way to play Space holes I'm pretty happy with space holes overall I I think three out of five I'm very happy with let's move on though yeah Blake Templars [ __ ] you Blacktown Flyers [ __ ] you you shouldn't exist you aren't even a main [ __ ] Legion chapter and I hate your Detachment rule it is the worst type of rule to exist and they showed it off right away meaning this design is not going away yeah there's some restrictions and and the worst Detachment rule of anybody there are bad Detachment rules this one's very good which is my problem with it so Templar vows also known as metagame every game you play at a tournament if you're playing against a leadership focused Army you can ignore it if you're playing against a psychic focused Army you can ignore it if you're playing against a giant horde Army you can beat the [ __ ] out of them I mean you could beat the [ __ ] out of psychic Army too like anti like come on dude every one of these vows would be fine because they all have their Niche plus a generic good thing there is no reason the [ __ ] over the leadership Army one needed to also just have a six up feel no pain unless it was like that's black templar's whole ability and you're like okay they screw over the leadership Army and they have a six up field no pain that's black Templars that would be like each one of these individual vows fine with me but you get to choose and it's not done when you make your list and go to the tournament it's every round after you look at your opponent's Army started the first battle round choose GG idiots and this all comes at the big big cost of just not taking a librarian because the the other part of that is you have to take their identical data sheet but it also has a multi-melta cool yeah I mean I don't have the Deep hatred that you have of black Templars but I do not like the design of Templar vows yeah Templar vows reeks of my problem when we talked about custodies with Emperors chosen you have a sub action that is always the correct choice there's no reason to do anything else because you just get to choose after the battle starts you get to choose what you need to do it reminds me of the worst parts of when tyranids had their full power hyper adaptations which I know is now their Detachment rule but it's not as hyper focused to [ __ ] over your opponent and also give you free [ __ ] I despise this oh and for any Space Marine players who want to also be mad with me you know your assault intercessors you love so much Crusaders can get a hundred attacks with their chain swords can they really yeah you're just strictly worse than playing as black and white Marines cool uh let's move on death watch uh Team delete Death Watch they're fine I as much as I make fun of Death Watch you're cool with me but God damn you're really really annoying to read that was kind of what I met the Army rule is fine and then you got to how kill teams function and your brain exploded because now you have to open up the Space Marine document and search around for 50 data sheets out of 300 yeah and it's not a clean design I think that's why I don't like it yeah I I love the idea of Death Watch I feel like the execution has always pissed me off but like the idea of an indometer kill team that's my [ __ ] Jam I love gravis you have no idea my Beetleborg boys are my favoritest things I will [ __ ] defend them with my life but reading this data sheet hurts and I love these and then I read the other data sheets and I don't love those ones so they're even worse I do wonder if like just like a one of those like kind of overwhelming at the moment things no because they existed basically the same way all through ninth and they were still just a clusterfucker figuring out what they're doing yeah yeah I don't know I like the idea of Death Watch in some ways I really don't like the idea of the anti-xenos army where like if you get too fluffy it's going to be obnoxious in certain matchups and useless in others right if you focus more on the like Melting Pot nature of them they're okay like you can play up the strength of like they're all of the chapters mixed up then I like it but you have to be careful about how you go about it and you can't accidentally make Hellfire rounds yeah I don't know man I think unless I'm completely misunderstanding how this works I don't think Death Watch is too powerful or anything so I'm not worried that like oh my God we have to everybody needs to pay attention because clearly Death Watch is what you should be playing if you were playing Space Marines I think it's just one of those like it's an interesting puzzle to kind of fiddle around with while you're building a list it's not got like the obnoxious old stuff they used to have for fluff of like one CP neck rounds can't take reanimation Pro protocols anymore or like you know the the one CP drekari I'll break their ankles that's not there to be obnoxious and be useless in other match-ups they're focusing more on the adaptability it's well done here it's just you have to be careful when you design Death Watch so you want to do xenos I'd rather be done with Imperium so I'll be more excited when we're gone you can tell which date was my least favorite day for index spoilers all right I guess let's move into astrum militarum guard so out of every one that we're doing this is the only one that I didn't read literally every data sheet for and fully absorb the rules I would hope so yeah at least space brains was like alone on a Friday this was the last index I read on Imperium day which had like 35 factions that I remember yeah so guard data sheets for Squad command squads or whatever are ridiculous oh yeah because they're like five unique character models yeah and there's War gear options and like they tried to fit as many [ __ ] words on this paper as they possibly could so Army rule voice of command I actually really like it it's so strong it's stronger than basically any other factions but you're again you are guard so like the base unit is supposed supposed to be worse I know what you're screaming at Mac will get to you it is strong it's very strong it feels right though yeah your base units are supposed to be a lot worse so like you have to have the ability to kind of augment that and that is based off of having the officers still living it's a fine design for an army it's a very strong ability which means you have to be careful with pointing guard I don't think that happened but we'll get there your Detachment itself foreign soldiers so it's pretty much a perfect guard generalist Detachment it's very simple which is okay because your army rule is orders and orders are kind of complicated yeah okay that's fair like that's my thought there this is just so simple but I this is an index this is also the Army rule is complicated there's a lot of options in voice commands so I'm with you I'm on board boring Soldier it's as good as you can ask for if you stand still get lethal hits on an army that has famously weak actual strength characteristics that's as good as you could ask for your enhancements are fine they're whatever they're good I don't really have an issue this is another one where it's like everything's officer I think that's probably going to be the case for Olive Garden to keep you from putting them on weird ass characters that guard just has access to I think you're right and I think this is the correct decision but it's another one of those where it's like it's a little messy I always disliked in gene Steeler Carlton ninth nearly perfect codex but I've always hated the like oh I want to see how much I can make the girl with the bombs be really good it's like she's not allowed to have a warlord traitor Relic if you try we'll shoot you okay I won't get clever then yeah stratagems strats are good real special honestly it's just solid they have good options to augment potential problems essentially all right let's get to the elephant in the room data sheets guard have a lot of them several of them are [ __ ] cracked especially after we got the point values I'm not too worried about like oh they're too strong based on the point values because I think that that's going to change I think like that one especially for guard is like that's going to happen don't go out and buy all your uh chimeras bass lists and wyverns because they're 80 points and shouldn't be they're gonna get smooshed yeah I do think there's some very cool things that they've done on some of the sheets Real Talk favorite thing hands down the number one thing for me the beamblade and the Lehman rust getting split into all the data sheets I just bitched about there being too many data sheets but I like this a lot because of the whole like every data sheet gets an ability this makes it so the Lehman Ross and the Beyblade Which is less important but it's so [ __ ] cool and iconic gets to have more than here is the Box put a gun on it it's every one of these guns comes with a different ability because it's a different data sheet so they feel wildly different you can point them spectacularly differently if you have to I really like it and it makes you want to run a mix rather than I'm going to run 10 demolishers because they're the best this time or 10 I don't know battle cannons vanquishers whatever it makes you want to mix it up a little more I love it I think that it matters because switching those different profiles honestly switches like the entire theme and style of the unit making it not just a gun on top top that you swap out anymore and you're like it's a Lehman rust but here's the profile of the gun yeah and it feels like that's the way it should have done and I just want to give a call out for the Bane blade rolling Fortress that's one of the coolest [ __ ] things ever it's kind of neat how good it like whatever it's so [ __ ] cool to me that like this tank is so big that you get benefit of cover by being behind it which is funny because basically every pseudo fortification model that everyone else got got this ability but this one's the tank yeah it's not like your fortification it's your tank is your fortification exactly it just feels so right for the Bane blade I like it I can't say I'm a fan of how they did uh some of the data sheets with the squads having a billion [ __ ] options because there's so many stat lines and like that stuck that way though that gets into the whole like either you give them all guard weapons 301 or whatever right yeah and you just say good enough or you have to get into the over complex shooting they're probably going to suffer from I've done drakari shooting phases you get real [ __ ] fast at I've got one roll of a dark lens I've got two rolls of a blaster and I've got seven guys rolling their Splinter rifles and you got boom boom boom I know I'm always doing this this is my Loadout I do this on every unit you're gonna have to do that with guard if you get fancy and give one guy flamer one guy a grenade launcher one guy this one guy of that you're going to get timed out or cause your opponent to suffer an aneurysm and just bash you yeah very much so and I agree with you we're kind of stuck at this point this is what we have you can see the different camps at work of like hey we should probably simplify this so games don't take six hours to do a shooting phase and but all my special guys have their special stuff this Little Five Point model or 6.5 Point model has to have his super special gun that his sister-in-law gave him yeah I get it but I don't like it so I mean I think guards are gonna be great the guard are busted right now I think tanks are just good intense things are good intense and guard have criminally underpriced stuff in the index right now from what I read yeah even if they adjust the points I think are it's going to be still in a great spot just because of how the army makeup is going to work out in time so yeah uh moving on let's go to Sisters Army rule acts of faith Miracle dice hell yeah dude Miracle dice are the best thing you could ask for in sisters I love them I mean it's kind of what I expect to a certain point I'll be very sad if they ever lose them yeah and I do enjoy the fact that like this is also the you get it at the start of your turn and each time a unit is destroyed it tells a story kind of thing and it's also good gameplay I have issues with the sisters index yeah is it an issue with the Detachment rule then the blood of Martyrs no this is goes back to your thing that you're talking about like below starting strength bad one then for the purposes of this ability the unit has starting strength of one consider it it's like man but note specifically with this one you do it for the wound if you're below half strength it doesn't say the below half strength for the one model one so I don't think one model can never get plus one to wound with how this is written uh I have to reread the chord rules to make sure they don't cover this but I'm almost certain they don't yeah you're right it's considered below starting if it's lost one or more this gets into my hole if you wanna get gamey about it yeah no that's [ __ ] I hate it I hate it a lot this is a key example of why something like this if it's going to be used multiple times it should be a core Rule and then when you see it written out it can point to you and go oh this is written out I wonder why let's find the difference otherwise it's always the same yeah because every one of these I have to double check now for when they say what that's annoying which I shouldn't have to do and hopefully that's FAQ and this is old news by the time you hear it if you're watching this late for some reason I mean like the actual effect act as good hit roll and wound roll getting better but part of the problem with that at least for sisters is they're a pretty frail Army so like you get hit a lot of times you're just gone that's true how are you getting to below half kind of thing uh don't split fire on them I guess you get the balance between if you're destroying things out fully then you're giving them extra Miracle dice but if you don't fully kill them and you just kind of grievously wound them they get better in combat I'm pretty sure I would just kill them and be done with it and give them the merry good life and accept it but I guess there's a bit of play there so whatever I think stratagems are actually super important here sisters have a problem of they're really bad against Vehicles right now it's essentially you're spending your Miracle dice that are High Rolls in order to get wounds on vehicles because you don't have much in the way of anti-vehicle okay I think you're going to have to run castigators to sum them out because they're like your only tank that can take on the tank I think holy rage is super important as a stratagem because you need to get plus one to wound to wound Vehicles reliably that makes sense especially with how things are currently set up with vehicle toughness and I really hope holy rage is one of those ones that you see repeated in like the melee Focus sisters detachments yeah if they don't then it needs to be because you get holy rage plus but I agree with you that that is the kind of thing that they need access to I will say when we get to enhancements I really hate mantle of of felia or whatever gets into the hole we're getting into that space I don't like that we're going to be talking about more later only a canonist and a Palantine which is their Captain Lieutenant equivalents can use this and it does something there's no reason you couldn't put it on other characters you could have called out like a character who is not a vehicle or whatever if you were really concerned but like I'm sure this is some lore thing I'm not reading the paragraphs about it but I don't like that your basic Dr Relic is limited to one of two model types and I have concerns because this isn't the only place that this happens like is this just how they're going to balance these types of extra abilities kind of thing that's just not a clean way of doing it to me but whatever it's fine generally the enhancements are fine there's nothing particularly amazing I do think that they're going to be used uh actual units the major screw up to me is the sisters I don't like the sisters are limited to exactly 10. either they should have been the 5 or 10 or they should have been 10 or 20. right I see what you're saying five or ten would have given them more space brain feel I don't really like that so I would let's do 10 or 20 but and 10 or 20 would at least give them more of a you can get 20 of them buffed by one character you can play a bunch of nuns with Guns by locking them to exactly 10 it's very annoying and then you have the whole like well you can take emulators to split them in half that's a [ __ ] terrible rule I hate that I feel like generally all of their models are a bit over costed yeah this is why I don't want to spend too much time on points because it gets into the Weeds about like what should this specific model cost but like yeah in general I think sisters are a little pricey to start with they're in an okay spot they've got a good army rule their Detachment rule is serviceable they are okay but not my favorite kinda wish just sisters got a bit of a touch up I don't know I think the actual like sheets themselves are pretty good but just generally it feels weak just because of the points cost or suits are finally cool that's nice that is nice yeah okay let's move on to custodies custodies is where we got the actual hey this doesn't work in the points yeah the uh Squad size that you're forced to do doesn't work with the box that you're able to buy and stuff like that I expect will get fixed very fast I'm not gonna take points off for that I will laugh yeah exactly it's funny it's not a game breaker like fix it in the next four weeks and you're completely forgiven for having a typo in 3000 data sheets yeah the Army rule the qatars I still hate qatars existing but they're totally fine I actually am okay with these ones I mean I actually kind of like these ones and I like that you choose it at the start of the fight phase so you can like kind of figure out what you're working on like what advances actually happened and that kind of stuff it is pretty strong I think but at the same time it's limited to the fact that you only have so many models exactly you're the Hyper Elite Army so it's fine that you have a strong Army role to make your units feel even better in battle because you only got so many to work with so I still hate the Detachment rule it's [ __ ] [ __ ] it used to be Emperor's chosen now it's Shield host is the name but it's still the emperor chosen rule yeah [ __ ] off it's [ __ ] it's less egregious intense in ninth it was annoying because it has the whole problem of like what is the weak point to custodies Mortal wounds yeah okay I can take this Detachment and get rid of that weakness why would I read any further this Edition psychic is not mortal wounds for the most part so it's less egregious this Edition because it's harder to get Mortals in the first place but it is still that first problem of what is the weakness of custodies mortal wounds why would I pick a different attachment when we get a codex it's like the exact same as last time except for they lost the also you can just randomly re-roll one hit one wound God damn it dude whatever I think it's [ __ ] it's not that it's [ __ ] to me that it's too powerful what the [ __ ] it's it's that it's bad design for a sub-faction to solve your problem when that means now every other subfaction has to be so strong that you're willing to have a problem again right or has to also solve the problem at the same time as it does something else okay then you've just moved it from this subfaction to that subfaction still same problem uh stratagems seems fine honestly nothing really stood out to me on this one the Slayer of nightmares made me chuckle I read the flavor for some reason it's like Slayer of nightmares the effect is you get plus one to wound against Monsters at Vehicles right you're like okay sure you're like oh because they're the Slayer of nightmares why are they the Slayer of nightmares what makes them better against Monsters and vehicles when you use this the custodies defend Humanity okay why did that make them suddenly better against a monster of her vehicle there flavor text or did you just write this one Friday afternoon oh I don't know just take a generic saying that we've used before and put it in there call it good The Strand answer fine I just wanted to make fun of that the enhancements this is that really annoying hopefully in the custody's Codex they give sisters a little bone give them a Detachment where they get all of the special things but you must take a sister warlord or something right yeah that'll be cute I'm fine with that but that means that in every other Detachment that they're going to get it's going to say adeptus custodies model excluding anathema's Icona model you know on everyone just like every Talon is like excluding that one crude character [ __ ] that guy yeah I can't say I'm a huge fan of it but if they don't give us the special one that has anathemus Icona for all of them and it's a special like hey yeah if they don't do that that's rude as [ __ ] I don't like that yeah but give them a bone give them a Detachment I do think like I said earlier like I think these enhancements could work out for the more Elite ones just because you probably will have points left over and you can just toss it on without any any issue but it's not a huge concern which if you get into like the Weeds on balance the enhancements should be less good on armies where you're always going to have points to take enhancements because you can't take another unit exactly but unit wise I mean they're Elites I feel like they did Shields dirty we have to see what happens but as someone who thinks a custodian should always come with a sword and a shield Shields got done so dirty in ninth there was a really good toss-up of light you want to take like two Shields and one lance guy right that was a normal thing to see in a list where custodies would take a bunch of three mans with two Shields and one guy with his stick yeah spear that is the word I am forgetting now they're sticks they're ancient Brad they're so ancient they're actual sticks that's how it's so easy to upkeep there was a really good toss-up but now Shields being at one of the wound characteristic would be like all right and then we're going to have the blades be slightly worse than the Spears oh No they're [ __ ] terrible compared to the spears it ain't close they lose a strength and a whole [ __ ] damage they gain no extra attacks that's what confuses me you could have made the spirit the good all-rounder you could have made the blade be you know a couple more attacks and you lose an AP or a damage or a string you lost two of the three and you didn't gain any attacks there is no way one wound is out doing how much damage you're losing by not taking Spears it just bothers me okay I mean I do wonder if an Atmos Icona units are going to be used well you don't have to troop tax anymore but you still have to hold back points and I don't think anyone has sticky objectives and custodies or does one of the anathema get it actually yeah I think you're still going to take one unit of them uh they did murder the [ __ ] out of witch Seekers which I'm personally angry about I think you are going to take some just not witch Seekers I'm still mad about that I loved the flamer bus God damn it give them a Detachment where their flamers get an extra AP and a strength or something make the flamer bus a thing again I do think that the anatomous icons feel no pain three up against psychic attacks is going to be interesting it doesn't really matter their whole thing is the anti-siker thing I'm okay of a sister of Silence a little 40-point unit that's a one wound three toughness model I'm fine with that in the super Elite Army being good against hikers yes I am as well but I do wonder if because they've keyworded psychic kind of thing if that means that these units will actually be more than just sit on an objective I don't think that will ever be the case especially with how I think most armies are going to not want psychiclist Edition yeah that's fair either way like the core part of custody units are still custodies like they're Elite they cost a bunch of points and I think a lot of my problems with custodies are things that could easily be solved by a Detachment except except for the shield thing I want a unleash the Lions which is probably going to be locked as a single detachments key stratagem if it still exists it better still exist I love turning the Terminators all into unique characters and making them run all over being superheroes the fact that we don't have their Forge World model data sheets is really rough to analyze custodies in the first place it's interesting their model count that you're forced to because like for example the Alaris is two three five six I still think a middle ground I would accept I would like it if we still had a point per model but you could only take them in whole numbers or some [ __ ] because like a Guardsman is 6.5 and like a chaos Terminator or something was like 33.333 so I'd like it if there was something in the Middle where it worked that way you just had your Min and your max I wonder if in testing the competitive play testers were like I will never take a 10 man I will take a nine because I I get rid of a blast profile by taking nine instead of ten and they went [ __ ] that you're taking 10. and then they just Cascade it from there of like the marketing team comes in and goes make sure boxes are legal I don't know if that was ever a thought but yes there are some weird ones and the only argument I can see is about oh because this box can build a character right okay and that's where you get into like the y4 I think it's hilarious on particularly adeptus custodies for the ones that are like two three five six well [ __ ] it let's put four in there as well and if you didn't want to do points per model you could do interesting stuff like do three four five six not for every model but for like let's say that model but say like five to six is cheaper than four to five or something or four to five is cheaper than five to six or you can get real spicy yeah it's not a linear progression it's a some type of oh if you're gonna take more you're gonna get a discount I don't know if that gets too into the weeds and it's not worth it and it makes building lists too much of annoyance a lot of this I'm aware is for the average player not People Like Us who are super tryhards even when we try to turn our brains off yeah we're still spikes to the core in some extent they're trying to help out your average player of a game Target Timmy as I say from our other podcasts like the person who vaguely plays this three times a year I mean they did kind of do that in Orcs is the one that I remember the mega knobs two and three because of how it lined up you got like a discount kind of thing is it okay so maybe that's something they open up or they're testing it to see if like we'll try it both ways and we'll fix it one way or the other I feel like part of it was that they just [ __ ] up and looked at nice round number and went yeah let's let's round it to that and call it good it's very possible it's very possible but it shows that there's a possibility and like I agree with you I think it would be cool again it's a problem of like the way it works aosifying it is probably correct for the game and healthier for the game but I am not the target audience for that change I enjoy spending 10 hours tweaking a list you can't do that when you AOS file list so I have to remove my personal feelings from it and think about it for what is better for everybody which is something I know some people have trouble thinking like yeah I assume they know what they're doing at their jobs they are most likely doing research for what will get people to play the game more regularly stuff like that or is easier to balance competitively and they say this will be easier to balance I get that too speaking of doing a bunch of research and figuring things out let's move into adeptus mechanicus where they did a lot of research and figured out how adeptus mechanic is was supposed to be all right let's do ad Mech Army rule Army rule is incredibly strong doctrina imperatives you can choose heavier assault you get minor bonuses in addition which is something people keep on forgetting with this that is true it's not just units get this heavier assault Mobility it's got a little bit more on it you get heavy and in your deployment Zone worsen API by one or assault and in your opponent's deployment Zone improve your AP by one they're very strong those are very strong little abilities so here's the problem with the Army rule if you're aware of admac go doctrina imperatives that's cool that's the skatari Army rule you're right they made that the ad Mech Army rule for the whole ad Mech Army because admac is now katari skitarian admek were two separate things that got merged into a single thing and kept their unique identities which is kind of weird but okay I play dracary I can't complain about that you can have the part A Part B of A faction sisters custodes whatever the problem is that treated imperatives is this katari rule and they kept that [ __ ] lore so only this Qatari get your Army's rule so half your data sheets don't have an army rule because they didn't do the other half well they did the other half it's literally on Call's data sheet alone just put Doctrine imperatives on everything in the Army and say look they all deal with skatari they understand the drought Katrina imperative [ __ ] there is no reason they had to get all lord bunny on us sure it's just very annoying when you're like oh this is a great strong and then you're like halfway through data sheets and you're like oh [ __ ] this one doesn't have the Army rule so the Detachment is terrible it is the worst attachment of every index maybe death guard is worse I think it's cool okay so sure the detachments rule red bombardment if this was December when the admit codex is gonna come out right and this was you're flipping through reading all of your different detachments and you get to one and it's the rad cohort rad bombardment Detachment rule this is the exact one you read and go that's neat I might play that one game while I'm drunk yes and then you move on to the good ones yeah as an index attachment it's not a good rule if you can do the math this does near nothing I mean yeah your opponent knows you have it it's not a secret but it's cool it's a Punisher mechanic we come from Magic the Gathering we understand this Punisher mechanics are always trash you cannot make a good one well you can it has to be so aggressive it's unfun I always think of like extra appropriate take an extra turn or steal your opponent's [ __ ] yeah which one of these awful outcomes would you like I'm with you this actual rule isn't good but I think it's cool so it's one of those like if it was in the Codex and it was like the fluffy like cool one I'd be actually be rather happy with it I wouldn't have a problem with this in a codex it's a good junk food Detachment the problem is this is your index and while admek is first up to get a codex with necrons right at Christmas time I hate that you're stuck with this [ __ ] and like the strats are oh no the strats are [ __ ] annoying because there's two of them that call out skitari yeah one calls out Tech priest three of them are General but then one of those doesn't work on vehicles and the other one doesn't work on vehicles and these are the exact type of stratagems that we were talking about these are the wrong things to do although they're not truly the worst it doesn't say rust stalkers it just does something you would only want to use on a rust stalker I hate these stratage jumps and then they've got the extra restriction if you have to be in the right imperative to boot they're real [ __ ] bad I just hate these I guess let's keep going enhancements enhancements was when I feared for my [ __ ] life this was the one I noticed where it flat out called out a specific model a 35.45 point model you can buy in a blister pack and it was like only this model may take this upgrade get bent and I was like oh no necron Vietnam War flashbacks ninth edition only your model that would never want this upgrade can take it oh [ __ ] oh God no God no but necron's got saved admek died in that get bent admek wow wow no empathy for those that follow 9th Edition necron players we lived our [ __ ] miserable lives with this terrible [ __ ] idea other people can deal with it now don't make your stupid [ __ ] one in four relics that you are allowed to use is locked to a specific model yeah I mean beyond that it's a very strong one I'll give them that the other ones have potential uses and whatever Omni sterilizers might be good they're all fine-ish other than there's toy one yeah whatever actual units though okay Point wise adeptus mechanicus is not good they might be fine you won't be happy well at least say that much guaranteed I'm pretty sure I came up with a slant list that's very disgusting even with the [ __ ] points I could be wrong I don't play ad Mech regularly but just reading profiles doing some quick napkin math and checking the points that I could run at all I think there's some dirty stuff you can do with tanks and out of line shooting and stuff but whatever kind of a slant list to survive on until December calls awesome Call's cool I actually really like call other than the fact that like canticles is his ability now all right real talk my least favorite thing in the whole admit codex I love castellan robots you love castellan robots they're [ __ ] adorable they are the advertisement for playing admac kind of yeah they don't get the ability because they're not as Qatari so they don't have an army ability they're like ninth Edition necron shooting in a [ __ ] vacuum and you go well they have their dedicated leader they can take ah son of a [ __ ] you're all right I was right this [ __ ] ability I raged about Eric didn't think it worked this way no because I read it and I was like these are pretty cool you didn't read the condition I assumed you got it and then you could change it no you have to flip a [ __ ] coin to see if your unit turns on oh boy that happens in your command phase so at the beginning of your first turn you attempt to turn your robots on if you fail the coin flip you can pay a CP to retry the coin flip if you fail that one [ __ ] you see you turn two oh boy the robots are actual trash without being in one of their protocols basically I feel like I'd be less mad about stealing robots if they just started in a protocol and the data Smith could change the protocols even just start them in Aegis protocol there's nothing scary about it they don't get shot and killed as easily but if you want to go do something with them you're gonna have to have the data Smith do some protocols or whatever I'm fine with that too but yeah this is all completely ignoring the fact that the points are wildly ridiculous yeah we're ignoring points of the head back when we're talking about that fact because I had originally thought like oh yeah this is going to be cool because I thought you started in one and then and then I saw the points I was like oh wow that's ridiculous but now it's both of those hits against it so uh sorry Stone robots maybe next time yeah and while we're here bitching about stuff [ __ ] Ed mcflyers yeah they made Flyers essentially useless this Edition because of admac flyers and Sort Of Orcs and nids there were other problems but yes Ed Mike was the first problem problem three of you are to blame the first problem problem got the rule to ignore it even though it makes no [ __ ] sense why does the airplane have hover but the necron Doom sites which in lore take off and land vertically and hover can't hover and this thing kept its busted bombs they just don't lower movement in addition to make death guard even more mad I [ __ ] hate this flyer call looks great though call does look great Shame about your troops yeah I add my career in a bad spot right now here's my thing the Army rule is very strong if you're a skitari you're hitting on fours now to make up for the fact that your army rule is so strong yeah balance it around the fact that you have the Army Rule and it makes sense so votan just did the same thing better all of their normal units hit on fours because their army rule is plus one hit so they all hit on threes and the good units hit on three so they hit on twos they ignored that part with admek and they worsened the characteristic on models that don't [ __ ] get the Army rule brilliant I'm so mad about like I want an explanation I literally can't come up with one yet honestly I think the problem is they don't know what to do with admac right now but why does it feel like guard has an equally strong Army Rule and I feel like they weren't punished as hard for it as admac was for theirs they weren't punished anywhere near and they're all stupid cheap which I don't think that's a great answer either because admac is already one of the most expensive armies in the game to collect they didn't need to be stupid cheap and be you know five thousand dollars to feel 2 000 points yeah there's not a solution I like other than make them more Elite again because I'm not seeing it Chief at least not with this terrible Detachment maybe in December before we had points I was like all right the Army rules making them shoot worse because the Army rules so good it makes them shoot normally again and they don't want them hitting on twos all game I get that that would have reminded me of the uh scary days but then the Detachment rule does nothing so you're essentially just an army that your army rule is you hit normally idiot but like it's such a dangerous Army rule that you had to do this because like if you sit there and do the math and like think about competitive games you've played abusing assault and heavy on your entire Army you can do terrible things well it's one of those not only do you have the ability to build your list around it you have the ability to change your gameplay of around that it's very strong and it's not even just that there's also some extra bonus on it as well I still think there is a pretty dirty tank list I came up with abusing the combination of disintegrators and Scorpius or whatever they're called Dune Riders yeah I think abusing those two which both get imperatives because they're both piloted by his Qatari unlike the robot who doesn't get it obviously and is worse and costs more points yeah the servators are also [ __ ] hilarious but uh the the servitor problem that's a hole that angers me because like the entire lore of AD Mech is keeping the best [ __ ] for themselves they gave the Marines the good servators and they kept the garbage brilliant I compared it to the gray night server and I was like what'd you do Ed Mike I don't have an issue with people are bringing up the like wire servators four prices in four different armies that doesn't bother me because a unit can be worth different amounts to different armies yeah Knights would probably pay a different amount for basic you know Canadian troops or whatever then guard would just to have access to that I agree it's a bit weird but it has reasons you can argue why a unit would have different costs to different armies but the different profile for the exact same old shitty kit that should have been Legends forever ago and should not be legally sold anymore yeah and then you have the gall to make it like pretty debatable for a Space Marine and absolute garbage for the people who make them yeah it's weird I hate it all okay so Imperial Knights I think the Army rule is really well designed I love it there's been a few others that have had like this like there's a story on what is actually happening Imperial Knights has like I'd narrative yes this is something that if you don't play this game you read and you're like oh I get it they're the guys playing the fantasy night they get a squire who helps the Knight and the Knight makes the Squire better okay I get it and out of all factions Knights deserve to have narratives because it's one of those like a knight hits the field and that's cool it's the big thing and you know there's gonna be a lot of armies that are like I want to see what it takes to kill that Knight and that night has a very high probability of doing something important 10 random Guardsmen have a very low probability of being important to your army exactly the rule itself is actually pretty good and it is going to play well yeah I think they nailed it for Imperial Knights on this Army Rule and then Detachment rule a perfect Detachment rule for an index vanilla ice cream it's not exciting it isn't exciting it is a perfect index Detachment rule it's not overly powerful it's just there it's all right you might might even pick it even after the Codex comes out and you have options I mean it kind of feels like it's a stop Gap to a certain point of like if you feel like you need this as a fallback you always have it as an option even if the other ones that come out during the Codex are more interesting that's good and they get five enhancements not four I'm always here for more enhancements didn't actually notice that that's because two of them can only be taken by questors which gets into my I hated this when we were in our codex is the ninth edition of every chaos Relic and warlord trait was like this can only be used by these specific models don't you dare get clever you bastard it's not quite as bad if you have five options no three of them are fine normal options at the same time like there's only seven nights it is annoying though because you have to remember the Forge World Knights so you lock all of the best looking Knights out of them which like I just want to play a castigator it looks so fun looking good and you're gonna have extra points Knights are going to have extra points you can put your enhancements on them yeah buy three enhancements with your last points have fun yeah you get totally fine stratagems I think thunderstorm kind of sucks because it used to be you did Mortal wounds so that you could use it for clearing chaff now you just get devastating wounds on something that doesn't have anti-infantry so it's just your four attacks if you roll a wound of six out of four attacks that one gets to do Mortals and it's like that's that's real bad now feel like you needed the anti-infentreated stack up there to be clearing the chaff but we have rotate ion Shields it's back chaos got theirs ours isn't called that but we all call it it anyway it's good it needed to exist in some way and it does so box checked good job the actual units I love them I think Knights chaos and Imperial variants got away with murder looking at the points and how much I love the models to begin with like we've got real good everythings I actually think the questorus slash abhorrent frame is finally the correct price point I think one of the biggest things for me is ignoring the points to a certain amount the actual sheets read well yes and I really think Knights looks incredibly fun this Edition everything about these two indexes when we get to chaos Knights I'll be saying it again everything about them feels fun I am a hundred percent here for them it's like the indexes are so totally good that we can wait till the end of the Edition to get our our actual codexes like don't care there's enough here for me that is fair do we want to do imperial agents Brad no are you sure you don't want to talk about the new agents of the Imperial here's how Asians of the ethereum go there's only two cases where I'll ever play against one number one you're a lore Bunny and I don't have to care I'm probably drinking enjoying myself having a blast and you tell me all the zany rules on that character and it'll be fun that'll be great the only other time is you're a super try hard and one of them is super broken for the points and it won't exist in three months so I don't have to look it up I feel like at some point there's going to be enough that like they're just going to be like their own thing now I still think like if you want an actual hot take on hot takes here Death Watch and the Agents of the Imperium stuff should have become the Inquisition which gets weird because technically gray Knights are one of the three prongs of the Inquisition themselves but they should have become like the Inquisition and then you could have had a very unique feeling Army where not only do you have access to space brains in some limited way but you have access to all this weird zany [ __ ] in addition but that would be interesting and make me happy with how deathwatch functions that would be cool and I mean I think there are cool agents of the ethereum like vindicare Assassin I like assassins although that gets in the whole assassins technically aren't part of the Inquisition they're the other Branch I think there are some cool ones there and I agree with you there are going to be people that play it because they're fun and I love that that exists as an option but I do agree with you like at a certain point if they're unbalanced they won't be for long yeah it'll get fixed and otherwise it'll just be used as fluff and that's cool okay let's finish this off great nights all right elephant in the room for Imperium Eric's Army we're finally here yeah psychic first time we're talking about psychic and it's not my thousand Sons no it's not so the good a you and I are both on the front page of our indexes I'm just saying I'm a fan of your taste random GW intern yours is kind of more obvious mine came out first and I was like oh they just chose the best art and I agree that's why I chose it for my avatar and then yours I'm like we found that an obscure random page of the 8th Edition codex on like page 115 and then found where it was digitally I'm like someone new they didn't randomly choose that image there's a hundred other gray Knights they could have picked I see you intern I definitely approve though uh Army rule teleport assault is ridiculous it's real talk if any army rule has to get faqed for competitive reasons it will be gray Knights it probably should be I think it's fine to let off the leash see what happens maybe it's okay but this reads like this triggers the spike in my head going red alert this is the best faction you're going to see this is not okay okay so yeah real talk this kind of ability is the ability that a better player is going to be able to take advantage of substantially better than an unexperienced player though it's still useful for inexperienced players sure they just won't they won't be able to do the same [ __ ] yeah and that's the thing is like this kind of ability in the hands of somebody that's actually really good at playing Warhammer 40K it's gonna look Unstoppable yeah there's a reason call to duplicity was the only cult in all of the Thousand Sons codex after they made us take only one call redeploying is super strong read deploying and being able to go in a deep strike doing it is really super strong I don't know how this managed to get printed but I'll enjoy it while I can because it'll be fun but I think that there are going to be a lot of people I get quite annoyed with it it is possible it just reads way better than it is but I find that highly unlikely we both know that redeploying and deep strike is ridiculous especially when you're able to do it with things that generally don't move quickly oh speaking of not being able to move quickly yeah we've got the Detachment rule teleport Strike Force teleport shunt just auto advance six with fly why not why not if you got deep strike just Advance six with fly is what your entire Army except for a couple Vehicles right yeah like the land Raider or something yeah dread Knights have deep strike your whole Army deep strikes I mean I think there's like a couple random ones like you said like some vehicles and like Surfers probably don't yeah who cares but yeah every like actual unit in Gray nights has deep strike which means if you want to advance you get a six and you can fly your paladins Advance 11 inches flying while going through walls that's not bad not bad at all it'll be interesting to see what else they can do for detachment rules because that's a pretty strong default I'm going to assume you're gonna get one that's like your attacks have sustained hit you'll get generic strong ones I'm sure that make you think because you're like I already redeploy every turn do I really need the advanced thing and I mean yes but maybe you could do something else as well I see what you're saying the strata Jones man generally good yeah I don't think I hate any of them they're fine it's cool to see true silver armor yeah Miss of demos is weird in this Detachment I don't know if it's just a core one you'll have in like all your detachments I think it will be or if they were just like really trying to hammer home this is the movement attachment maybe I just feel like you have so much movement that you need a stratagem for more you can always use more oh yeah you got true silver armor as your armor of contempt that's right yeah I mean I can always use more so like I'll find some uses of mist of demos but I see what you're saying like there's a certain amount where like you can only have so much and yeah but generally like they've got good stratagems that'll work out the enhancements fine I think the only one that's like mediocre is Libra demonica which is a Fluff thing it's fine totally okay that that one's mediocre the first of the phrase is going to be annoying gray Knights is going to be annoying inescapable wrath is going to make me cry when I fail a charge because I'm going to fail charge even with that and Caldor Drago you at least can't stack those thank God Drago's an epic hero so you can't take yeah Trego makes you deep strike on what a six for a charge roll yep Eric is going to lose that six with a re-roll probably every other game if I'm lucky if you've never seen Eric try to roll a Smite for five consecutive turns and periling after re-rolling a perils the problem is that Calder Drago's deep strike adding three of the charge has that little psychic thing next to it which means I'm going to fail if it didn't have that and it was just like a random ability I had [ __ ] nailed it speaking of random abilities that have the random psychic thing on them let's talk about the psychic yeah psychic is my actual like one pure negative of 10th edition they bribed Us Thousand Suns players when we get there we have good psychics still because cabal rituals essentially give us the old psychic stuff back honestly like as much as gray Knight is a psychic Army if thousand sawns didn't hit psychic right there was no hope ever of having any chance with a codex release my problem is psychic in general does not feel good and I think I don't have a particularly solo take on that I think it was pretty common from what I was seeing of other people who are like hey uh psychic looks miserably bad okay so I don't think it's miserably bad it's a gun it's exactly what we feared when they they talked about it it's just a [ __ ] gun no and sometimes an ability that on a normal space ring would be an ability has the word psychic in little parentheses behind it when it wants to show it's a psychic character they would just have one less ability if they weren't psychic apparently but a space ring gets that ability yeah okay let's scroll down to boldus he has no ability of his own he has to use his psychic powers to lead a unit normally yeah and he is actually the only source of sanctuary that's what annoys me is if psychic was truly in addition to being a normal character like they wrote a character and they go it's a psychic character here's the bonus you get for being a psychic character we'd be more where I'm thinking we should be I still hate the psychic gun thing I think the way psychic was done best you actually have it on voltis this is somewhat common on most data sheets for psychic when they give you the psychic spell that's the roll a D6 if you roll a one hurt yourself if you roll a two to five or whatever do the thing if you roll a six do the thing but better they've been doing that I'm like cool you got rid of the psychic phase and you made I'm just gonna roll a D6 if I roll a one is bad for me if I roll anything else you're screwed yeah it's it would still feel like psychic but that would make my rules even worse a lot of psychic units got one of those that's how spells should have felt but that should have been in addition to being a character Volta should do something as a character and then have also he has this extra ability because he's a psycher here it is I think voltas does I think Sanctuary is his ability but the problem is sanctuary has psychic next to it so Volus doesn't have any abilities he is John Doe the nobody who happens to have a big brain and therefore that makes him the Grand Master he can't lead his way out of a box if he doesn't have his powers if he stands next to a sister of Silence he's apparently brain dead it's not great but I do think that like it's not quite as bad as I was expecting they bribe thousand Sun players when we get to zinc demons it's an actual crime it's so bad oh my God yeah it's it's real bad I'm gonna have my rage and I think gray nights is in between there doesn't have a particularly good feeling like when I do these things like for example the librarian I like the Librarians uh what is it your doom Vortex Vortex of Doom it's still good it's not as good as it was but it's still good but at the same time because I didn't get to choose it doesn't feel like I've succeeded at the psychic you know what I mean like I think a large part of why psychic felt unique was it was like you have a list of things that you could specialize in yes it's your choices have been taken from you and I mean there was a certain amount of that in ninth yeah granite's already had the assigned spells thing but you still had enough like oh the characters have actual character and that's just gone so it doesn't feel like I'm going to enjoy psychic as much as I did before but I still have some hope because they didn't completely fail with thousand signs purifying flame I think it's the best of the psychic guns for my transition into psychic guns from being a normal Power and I still don't like it it is pretty cool when you have Crow 10 purifiers and you're just blasting out 24 purifying Flames but like it doesn't feel like they use psychic powers it feels like they hadn't a third Barrel on their storm Bolter all of that aside gray Knights are going to be strong the Army abilities insane Point wise paladins I don't like but Terminator is going to be awesome and it's not like our strikes and interceptors are bad either like they're still going to be very good I'll still try to pressure you at all points in time to run one pergation Squad because you can shoot through walls again we'll see there is a spot for the purgation squad or the purifier Squad and we'll see I kind of like the purifier I like both and you just don't take interceptors or strike squads at all I think you're insane have you looked at those data sheets because those two are the fun ones yeah I'll just give up my Scout six that lets me have sticky objectives oh I will say this you're Dreadnought does does not get your army rule because it's venerable and that's always been a thing yep but it is a captain and a lieutenant in the old Aura style and this is pretty common with dreadnoughts at least on the Imperium half and I think a one of Dreadnought is going to be somewhat common just because you still get captain lieutenanoras without having to take five Captain equivalents to try to do something or whoever does that buff now in your army I think because it does both of them you might be right yeah because it is an aura too so you can affect three units with it yeah and have them still led by someone who does a different effect and it's not like he's point-costed too highly like the venerable dread is still fine stats for its points it's not amazing but yeah the only downside is you gotta haul ass he's gonna do a lot of advancing and actually rolling for his Advanced roles and actually rolling that's the sticking point let's get those short little legs the Grand Master Nemesis dread is 245 points now holy [ __ ] it's still probably worth it I actually don't know because the Nemesis dread gives up so little that's true it'll depend on where the list goes but you might be right I think everything else is well pointed enough that they're not like they were a ninth no I actually want to take other units now at the same time I don't think they're garbage I think one is probably the right number which is the number that should be right yeah so gray Knights is in a strong spot but I'm not sure how well I'll enjoy it yet after I get through the teleport around be annoying all right let's let's move on to xenos let's hit Tao okay I think Tao's cool I loved how this Edition oh my God they look incredibly fun incredibly good yes they do the Army rule feels needlessly complex I don't think it's that bad it's very long to read through and understand you play one game with it and you've got it I completely agree once you figure it out it's like okay whatever but like it feels like it should have been and there was an easier way to word it for people because to be fair this is the rules correct way to be a little wordier and be very careful about using keywords you have an observer you have the spotted unit guided unit all right good we're using keywords we can keep track of who is what I agree it is good but partially because 40K hasn't done that for so long it breeds weird but the ability is strong it's very strong and it essentially reads half your army but slightly more than that because of other rules is going to shoot at one better ballistic skill which is important that is not plus one to hit the Detachment rule sucks Tau wants a codex Tau will never use this Detachment as soon as they get a codex basically it does show that the uh ethereal farsight restriction is still going to be a thing yeah but you're not locked to only taking farsight in a specific Detachment I'm okay with that level of fluff you can't take a psycho are in your whatever Space Marine Crusader dudes yeah it's fine the stratagems they're generally good I expect the only ones that really matter will probably be the like two that are going to be in everything which I think is strike and fade and combat embarkation we're on the same page strike and fade and combat embarkation let you play Tau without just getting slaughtered in melee without also feeling like you just ignored Tau as a shooting Army one of those might be in only some sub factions and the other one's probably Universal okay but I think those two are in more than one but either way the stratums feel like they've done a good job of like keep away but also not let's just make it so that your gun is gonna be a melee weapon because you need melee I mean the enhancements I got nothing man I actually really like the enhancements so coordinating engage is the stratagem where your Observer also gets the guided bonus even though they're not guy guided pure tide Ingram chip will get used that you can double up on that and you're probably going to be spam using those if you're suit heavy so that you don't have to take as many trash units to act as your Observer units okay that makes sense and then through Unity Devastation your Observer unit you target it to be the Observer unit that gets the that gets the first unit of coordinate to engage the second one gets the puritite Ingram chip and you end up with like a very solid core of Crisis suits that can look out for each other but still blast at full speed I guess that those working together with the Army rule actually does synergize really well before we get fully into the units I just want to say I'm a huge fan of the little models as reminder tokens essentially and we should embrace that how drones function you mean yes it's done in like the gene Steelers have it a bunch of armies have it the Orcs have the distraction draw and like back like let's Embrace this I like this this is good continue [Laughter] but the unit's on its own so drones let's talk about them for one second I have mixed opinions the cleaned up drones to only be five drones you don't end up with like the weird onesie twosy ones I think the drones are good other than the gun drone unless I'm stupid looks incredibly bad I don't know why you ever picked the gun drone you're not wrong but there has to be something I feel like the shield drone is like Auto take on suits of course suits are essentially pointed like you have taken two Shield drones on every suit you may take like one marker drone unlike maybe the sergeant because he'll be the last one to go just so you have it yeah and then like your basic troops can equip the guardian drone so they'll take one of those probably you get told when you're allowed to missile drone and you usually can't take anything else in that option slot like Riptides yeah I was like you get to have fun when you have the missile drone but you're also forced to have the missile drone so you get to have fun the stealth drone is specifically just a unit ability on the ghost kill so I guess the specialty ones are all just a unit ability now the point is in general I like drones I think the gun drone looks really bad but you brought up an interesting one with the uh ghost Keel those stealth drones in addition to the rest she is ridiculous real talk I'm gonna put five bucks down right now loan operative gets faq'd within the month that seems fair yeah I don't think they understood how that was working when they wrote some of them no it doesn't have the exception case for closest model when only two things in an army get loan operative is fine but Tau can take literally all loan operative units and then your entire Army is immune from being shot for more than 12 inches away and your Tau so it's really hard to get within 12 inches of you yeah loan operative is going to get FAQ to say or the closest model I think that would make sense yes and I think it would still be good it'll still be great but it means you won't be literally immune to shooting I think so basically all of the tile battle suits are solid but there are some standouts uh crisis suits look amazing and will probably be the core of the Tau Army again which is good because they're a good core for the Army everyone loves a Gundam I think the ghost kill looks very good right now it doesn't seem like it's balanced correct Italy no and this is a great thing for newer players collect the models you like cactar editor for this show one of several he's been on the show before he loves the ghost Keel I'm pretty sure he has gone on the record saying it is his favorite model in Tau the ghost kill has been bad for basically two editions it looks cracked right now collect what you want play with it eventually it will be your unit's turn to be the broken thing for three months enjoy it as a bonus and then it will be back to normal yeah don't go out of your way to purchase units you don't like because they're going to be busted for three months because yours eventually will be that yeah the ghost kill right now it's the new hotness the storm surge looks non-embarrassing which I love yeah okay it's still a toy but like it's a very defensible toy at this point where it used to be really bad I mean it was you were basically giving up and just wanted to play for how do you kill this instead of actually trying to win broadsides look amazing I just think if you like Gundams you're happy as a clamatow right now if you're a vesped fan what's wrong with you we've got the right units for the index being good so let's move on to aldari the generic elves yeah and also space clowns right and also space corsairs and also space elves who worship demon Gods there's a lot of armies in this Army there are a lot of armies in this Army and I hated it in a ninth and it's worse now in 10th starting off with the Army role strands of Fate is very strong very cool very eldari very happy for craft world for that it is as expected Detachment rule it's so strong I don't know what could even be in a codex that would make you want to take something else you get 8th Edition Master Crafters it was like literally all you ever picked and you still get it it'll be interesting we're gonna ignore the other things on that uh and come back to that okay well so we're okay we're ignoring the rest well let's talk about the detachment the enhancements are okay there's nothing really crazy going on here stratagems look good don't see a problem strong I think they're priced to be used I think a couple of them I was surprised to see it one instead of two but at the same time I'm not too worried about it yeah fire and fade being two is okay it's very strong at one I get it it's like the flagship thing that eldari do so it's like it's got to be there but it was too strong at one last time I'm okay with it being two rather than being stuck at like once per game or whatever kind of pick you'd do all right that's what we had to get through Detachment looks good army rule is great let's talk about the problem where the [ __ ] are the harlequins where the [ __ ] are the harlequins all right so I did the math today I opened up Excel I made an entire sheet I can even screen share for Eric but I made an entire sheet for all of the Harlequin units their point costs how many I want to put in a list and if I can get to 2K points harlequins technically still exists and you can even run two flavors really weirdly enough so at the point cost for a 2K game if you run six star Weavers full of troops and you run those with generic hqs right yeah throw in six hqs of your choice I did a solitaire a death Jester two Shadow series two troop Masters just to randomly pick stuff I'm I'm not in maxing this right so we've got six full transports I take six Sky Weavers which are the bikes you have to take them in twos or fours not threes which is obnoxious I really want to take two units of three but I guess I'm taking a four and a two or three twos I don't know okay and you take three void Weavers which is the tank which is pretty good actually you come out to 1930 points then you fill the rest up with three warlord trait Relic whatever enhancements yeah for your characters and you're sitting pretty at just shy of 2K this will look a lot like how soaring Spike did an eighth how late did a ninth yeah the difference is you are stuck in the generic aldari Detachment and army rule troop Master being your warlord means you get to run the six troops and Sky Weavers so you can play this okay so you can play a pseudo lights 80th but you're stuck again not in what you would expect harlequin's rule set to be but with the aldari one you could also okay what else do you have instead of running like that we drop out our star Weavers you can even drop out void Weavers if you want to go like super into this and troops can be run in larger quantities up to 12. that lets you run essentially Frozen stars or dark or Twilight sateth or whatever for Frozen Stars got turned into in ninth Edition yeah it was Darkseid okay whatever but Frozen Stars so you've got your melee focused version instead where you just run up field there's two way to play harlequins it is the two most common ways to play harlequins no one ever played them any other way they both still exist I mean to a certain point there's only so many ways to play it because you only have so many models so yeah okay but at the same time are you actually playing harlequins or are you just playing aldari with checkerboard this gets into my thing okay ready I'm in the coping phase hahaha right I really wish GW would come out and say something one way or the other an article would solve all of this but I think them ignoring it is them trying to push the problem to the side for two more years so that it's someone else's problem I mean I think I guess yeah but I'm pretty sure that I'm ignoring it is the thing that they're saying just give up harlequins aren't a thing anymore we don't want it we're gonna technically allow it but no we don't want it anymore in the FAQ doc thing the the designer note doc that came out today right they had the paragraph about how if you can gain battle line in some way which is normally done through either a warlord giving you battle line or a Detachment giving you battle line then blank rules apply because technically that would be illegal you have to make your list before you get to the point where you have that warlord so your list is illegal until the warlord declaration they're like stop it you can do that oh I see yeah like the sequence of what goes for first kind of thing so that's that's irrelevant right the main thing is Will harlequins get a Detachment that goes if you take this Detachment you can't take list of units however these units become battle line and then they have their Detachment ability which will be like Clown Posse and it'll do some rule break thing and everyone will clap and they'll get unique stratagems they'll probably keep fire and fade and one other and then get like four funny stratagems and a clown nose enhancement and then you pseudo have them in essentially the same way you have them now except instead of the broke ass laughing God that had to be deleted so they didn't have an army rule anymore you just inherit the one from Craft World which is still broke ass like it's good as hell I think that is a valid possibility and I can argue strands of Fate is also a harlequin ability it's craft world but harlequins are also the like they always show up at the right time to do the correct thing even then I don't think it would feel it's the like hold over we still don't know what to do with this you can continue to live but they really need to say like nah we're no longer on life support yeah either that has to happen or the Codex gets announced and they're like by the way codex harlequins is coming they won't be in the aldari Codex when it comes out use the index until your codex comes out that'd be cool I don't see it though and also it's coming out with five new models yeah right so you can at least be like a small sized Army instead of a non-army and we'll actually put the boxes on the shelves instead of hiding them that's why I feel like you're correct and the answer is just they're hoping to kill them quietly with a pillow in the middle of the night and hope you wake up and think they died of natural causes yup I hope that's not the case because harlequins are way cooler than Craft World I'd rather craft world die it's so [ __ ] boring I don't think you're gonna get your wish but just move wraiths into harlequins and delete craft world nothing of value will be lost so harlequins aren't the only ones that are in here we've got you're so [ __ ] weird they need to probably admit that there are races in the Galaxy other than the Imperium of man and give us a bunch of complementary codexes for each eldari faction and then have souping rules because yanari is like this weird Band-Aid patch they do yeah you could even expand the uh Court of the archon let's not go insane here it's not gonna happen Brad this is what we get we get aldari harlequins which are basically dead and yanari but don't worry we wrote an entire codex for black Templars yeah and gave them unique models when they're just a fanfic chapter yeah I mean obviously we both think that Harley Quinn's and yunari are more interesting but I feel like I'd be less salty if this was codex yanari and it was like eldari and harlequins are now falling under the Inari and it's like all right lore moved forward interesting I don't really like it but sure instead of like just trying to delete everything they were trying to make Eldar interesting all right enough complaining about Eldar let's talk about aldar let's talk about drakari Army rule power from pain is fine I think it's cool it's not my favorite version of power from pain I liked the one from ninth this one is more power from pain but then we get into the whole drukari still corns thing so corn beat up zinch and stole zinch's casino machine so now corn has a zinchian ability in world leaders which is weird because drakari stole their shtick I don't know it's a fine Army rule the Detachment rule sure interesting isn't it uh this is the worst Detachment ever I hate the one piece friendship ship that we're all stuck on as drukari players who famously don't get along with each other like very wildly different things and you're forced to run everything in a soup right now and everything in this Detachment the rule the stratagems and the enhancements all follow the just run one of everything LOL even if you don't like it suck it up it doesn't make any damn sense for jukari a witch player shouldn't have to play homunculus units and a homunculus player sure shouldn't have to play with ugly ass witch units no bias if you do actually embrace this the detached mineral is not terrible because it does let you just freely use pain tokens no I still think it's terrible you get an extra three maximum it's not every battle around Eric oh it does best yeah okay never mind it's bad let's move on from that nonsense and look at the stratagems the stratagems that say cabal witch cult yeah archon succubus and homunculus you can only use this if you have all three boy oh boy what a fun stratagem list you have one universal stratagem and it's fire and fade which is nice it's a good strategum but it's like we've got one strategy well now you get two because you get one and then whatever yeah whatever your flavor gets disappointing oh let's go to the enhancements I wonder if those will be oh no hey look they're the exact same there's one homunculus there's one R count and there's one succubus and then there's one generic cool good job so the bad is out of the way the Detachment is everything bad about this codex the index is really good for drakari for the most part I'm sorry people who are fans of witches holy hell they did you dirty so I'm not crazy it looks like they're just bad they went from glass Cannon units to just a piece of glass there's no Cannon no it's a Vaz okay succubus is essentially mandatory and they still don't do anything the other parts though I mean it generally looks like they kept about the same power cabals and homunculus covens made out like Bandits there's good stuff all over the place incubai also got done pretty dirty but not as bad as witches whoever priced Chronos I love you please give me like six months before you fix it it's not okay but I'm gonna [ __ ] play them and you can't stop me I guess I didn't know it was quite that much but they're 50 points a Talos is a hundred I see the Chronos is better that'll be interesting hmm and racks because options are free the thing I was already going to do even if it was bad is now correct which makes me even happier as a Cummins unit I am eating great right now as soon as we have a better Detachment I am in Heaven until I get nerfed into Oblivion my cabals which I'm also a fan of fantastic as well there's a lot of good shooting in this Army scourges are criminal it kind of seems like everything other than witches went down in points and again if you are mobile and melee they decided that 10th edition doesn't watch you it happened in Space Marines it's right front and center in Jakari there's a serious shift I don't know if it's bad for the game it may be good for the game long term but if you're a fan of mobile melee units that can delete stuff you're not enjoying the beginning of 10th at least which I don't hate going through phases of this kind of stuff to a certain point I could get into like a whole why I think they did it I have to play 10 to find out but my thoughts are eighth was considered a very shooty Edition you blew your opponent off the board everyone's playing on Planet Bull ball yeah they made melee units better in ninth and at the same time individually everyone else started actually using terrain and terrain mattered in ninth so now you had really mobile kily melee units that could constantly be hidden until they were already in combat with you right and so it was a very melee heavy Edition for the most part other than admik I have a feeling tenth is trying to counteract what happened with ninth by being like Oh if cover is this good you shouldn't have had those toys right but I don't know if that's the case we'll see it at least seems like they might have thought that we'll find out I guess let's move out of elves you want to talk necrons sure their army rule reanimation protocols it's okay it's always mid as hell it is accentuated to being good because of stuff later in this index for specific units at least yeah but I think it nailed like the base starting point it's just 8th Edition reanimation protocols I think it did a good job of having a core base that could be adapted and enhanced Beyond and be very annoying to play against in certain loadouts I am almost 100 sure reanimation protocols is going to get faq'd within six months yeah the fact that you can stack everything you can stack will get fixed so that you can't average 24 models returned out of 20. yeah necron Warriors specifically are going to get a Bad Touch later reanimation Protocols are fine they're mediocre they're not my schtick it's not why I'm here whatever Detachment rule command protocols I did not like it does it remind you of uh ninth where you had to have something in the area yes our Detachment rule gave me PTSD and I was expecting that I was going to be paying 150 points for a warlord because they have consistently priced admac at 45 points for an HQ and necrons for a worse HQ at 150. this is the kind of thing that like reading command protocols I was very scared because if they had kept their nonsense this would have been awful yes I'm actually very happy it's a Detachment rule if this was the Army rule you would be stuck with always having to take advantage of this and not having other styles if that makes sense yeah necrons is more complicated than that that's one way to play it and I'm fine with that being the default way in the index I think it makes sense for it to be the default way it's totally fine I'm okay with that as long as it's pointed well right which it is it's very it turns out that they did Point cost neck round characters correct for the first time ever it looks criminal but it's actually just correct honestly it's just what they should have been they're so bad also they still managed to make the stupid score pack Lord terribly overpriced he's not good stop making him so expensive but it's nice to see that the characters are actually going to be used strata Jones they're fine they're so vanilla and it pains me because again it's PTSD from the 9th Edition codex and we feel like we're celebrating the worst codex ever written here yeah it's literally hey remember the worst Army rule ever would you like to be reminded of that every time you use a stratagem yeah I mean at least they're cheap though it's fine they're pretty good I have a feeling that each one of them probably goes to one other Detachment no I'm feeling like a universal this is the identity of the army yeah I could very much see each one of them goes to one other Detachment and that Detachment is more themed in that direction enhancements veil of Darkness scares me enhancements better be able to be in multiple detachments or we might be stuck here I was like why does this scare you but yeah because we found it if we found it here it means it's not anywhere else unless it can be in multiple locations in which case I'd redact my issue but yeah veil of darkness is good importantly if you look they all say necrons necrons necrons necrons none of them say random Lord you would never want to put this on this is a big upgrade overnight necrons may actually be buffed with their 10th edition index versus their 9th Edition codex if you don't take all the FAQs it's just funny that every other Army feels probably nerfed with a few exceptions some feel like very much side grades necrons feels like straight up like damn I can't wait to play with my index yeah no I I I don't even think that's a debate like necron this necron index is is good and our codex was really bad yeah yeah I mean these enhancements are going to be used I will say Sovereign coronal is one of those relics I don't tend to like where it is a requirement it is a tax to play the Detachment I believe the Detachment will not play well without it yes I think you're going to always take a coronal in this Detachment because you need the AOE of everyone around me is led by me I agree and I think that that's also why I'm not a fan of it being pointed at 30 points or something like that like it's flat out a you will be taking this no matter what it's the first 30 points you took yeah but whatever I mean it does help the Detachment rule so okay so I have not been talking about my favorite combo in every Army mainly because we'll probably do that for an episode later so this is not 17 hours long but I will drop this one on you because it's my favorite thing ever the second they showed how Army construction worked my brain went bread if they don't do anything stupid we'll be able to run like nine Catan [ __ ] you then we saw the data sheets and it was like oh my God the Katan don't have enslaved star God anymore you can just equip them and then I was like oh wait but they're all Epic Heroes and they'll do that to the generic one so I can only take one Transcendent Katan can be taken by times three you can have three of them and you can give them relics so the sepetermal weave which gives a four-up feel no pain that's dumb on a Transcendent Katan who haves all damage he takes that's dumb you shoot me for six I take three and I roll away one to two of them I mean luckily those are costed the most yes that was the thing where I was like they totally knew they were just giving me this one this isn't me spitting in the face of God this is God telling me I can do it I wanted this to be spite but they knew they're letting me play with my toy I like all the catons I own every Katan I own multiple Transcendent katans we are going to party the only thing I don't own that I have debated buying the official model even though it's a stupid ass idea is a tesseract Vault and the Tesseract Vault kept all the fun powers and while it's not good I think it's just good enough that it's worth running for fun you're dumb so I might buy a tesseractful dumb I agree that it's not embarrassing but you're still dumb okay so we didn't talk about those with space brains but here's something I am generally concerned about with the design in these indexes that may be okay long term named characters we ignored it in Space Marines is because we would be here for six years space frames has like a hundred and thirty character data sheets that's approximately correct about 120 of those are named old fine cast Space Marine ugly ass models you have to zoom through right right every single one of them was hand crafted with a special ability that is only on that data sheet and it can lead our unit yeah so if you want the ability you have to you have to run this old fine cast old Marine yeah that's annoying but I am a fan of the fact that in Tau in 9th Edition you have the choice of running like Fireside enclaves or you can play the Tau sub faction and play all the Tau named characters because they have like 30 named characters and make that your list slant and it's a very cool fun semi-competitive build okay that doesn't bother me too much so it is okay if they always price exactly right for every named character which is really hard necrons has a lot of named characters that are awful old shitty fine casts and I will a hundred percent tell anyone even if this black balls us from GW forever never buy One of These Fine cast models find any proxy alternative on the planet and buy that instead a big fan of the 3D print your own yes I will be 3D printing all sorts of name necron characters so I can use all the fun abilities that are only on a named character who I don't like and this is a thing I don't like from a standpoint where the game is about your guys even when I play Armon and thousand sounds you know I have my chicken head Armond that I play as my own named thousand Sons character instead of aramon I just use aramon's data sheet I do know that you're a special little snowflake on that yes exactly because it's more fun to me to imagine that this is like my nobody's team this is their story going on right it's not something that has to somehow weave into the Canon of a named character who is important I'm okay with that when it's like a big shiny mouth like Magnus or silent King and just watching them stomp around I don't like that I randomly have to explain why origin showed up today because I want a four I feel no pain I get what you're saying alternatively I think there are a lot of people that are going to enjoy being able to play treyson and smack somebody with an empathic obliterator no one is going to enjoy that because you chose the worst option in two ways one treyzen is the only named character with an awful data sheet too the empathic obliterator somehow still manages to be worse than a random stick of [ __ ] scatari martial can hold is it really I will never understand why this doesn't have AP it is like an anti-matter staff that blows [ __ ] up it has zero AP it does D3 damage it doesn't even do like a flat number wow that's really bad no you chose like the perfect bad example and I love that because it lets me rant thank you use softball pitched that to me uh yeah but overall I really do like necrons right now a lot I mean I think they've done a good job of balancing where the characters get slotted in kind of thing like if you're gonna actually Squad them yeah I don't have too much issue with any of the normal stuff going on I think destroyers are very playable right now I really want to see a destroyer sub-faction thing come this winter I really really want canopix to be good because I am a wraith man I think canoptic are set up they're exactly as mediocre as they were in the ninth codex destroyers look better off canoptics because they can't get LED properly and a whole bunch of other stuff they've got issues this is not their Detachment though they get nothing from this Detachment so if we get a Detachment that can Optics are good in then I'm going to be happy necrons are in a great spot especially in comparison to where they were real talk 10 Immortals with a plasma answer all of them with Tesla guns actually looks good fair enough all right Eric it just past midnight so what do you want to do for our next one I mean we've just done a couple of yours so it's also getting a bit late I want to bring some hype let's do Orcs so Orcs Army rule obviously the wall and it's nice and clean it's a solid iteration on the wall it's only one turn but it is very strong and there's none of the nonsense of like no there's a Speedway nah it's just we've got the wall call it and kill your opponents if I had to say something bad it's one turn out of five you get your army rule yes but you're getting a hell of an army roll there is some issues because like you choose it at the start of the battle round so if you're gonna try and use it defensively for the five up in volume you let your opponent know that this is your water and yeah yeah and so they're like oh I guess I'll just hide so you can't advance and charge and kill me that's a minor downside to the strength that you get from calling the why when you're going to charge and kill the opponent so I'm okay with it yeah it's still a good Rule and I mean I'd be kind of mad if it was anything else I sort of wish it had the like the ninth Edition second turn that's like the cool down so it feels like okay for two turns I get my Army rule but only one is the real hype one I did like the way ninth eventually got to it but I feel like this it looks fine and I think it'll be easier to balance additional Detachment rules around so we'll see speaking of Detachment rule though yeah we've gotta get stuck in it's sadly melee only so it's not also DACA dakadaka which I assume will be a different attachment rule yeah I would hope so it's a lot to ask for but I hope that that one gets sustained hits two for shooting weapons I mean as it is get stuck in is good it's pretty damn close to just playing his golfs very reminiscent and there's a reason golfs was strong so get stuck in is going to do well shooting arcs kinda gotta wait but yeah it's always been the side thing it's okay yeah I actually am good with the shooting thing becoming part of the Codex as a different Detachment so long as it exists and they didn't just forget about it the stratagems well they're better than ninth that's for sure I think they're actually pretty good honestly there's nothing oh my God there's a few rules that don't seem to work right mob rule is one of them it just needs a wording fix and it'll be fine for those who don't know mob rule ends at end of phase and it should end at end of turn because this is during your command phase but that's fine that's all easy fix whatever the enhancements are okay they're only okay they're a bit of a letdown but I think the one that's a lot down for me is the kill Chopper looking at orc yeah characters they all took huge hits to how Killy they are or characters are not the fun Big Boss who goes out and kills 10 dudes they're like a slightly better knob and the kill chop it doesn't do much for that there are still a few good Smasher facing but generally yeah the the kill shot was not really how or characters doing their things nowadays but it's not like it's bad no I think follow me Lads is really good yeah I actually do because the extra two inches Orcs aren't moving very fast without a vehicle and with advance in charge Vehicles get awkward right it doesn't work the same way when you disembark from Vehicles so I still think that's going to be good especially with like if you're going with like a mega knob unit or something where they're kind of slow it could help them not need to truck up board I don't know okay two extra inches to the move is never bad okay there could be actual valid uses of it none of the none of the orc enhancements seem very good to me you'll take one or two when you've got points for it yeah that said the units oh the units cool yeah I think orange just looks generally fun so at the end of arcs of omen it was one of those like Orcs just got to do a bunch of fun stuff you got to do whatever you wanted 10th edition is the evolution of arcs of omen yeah and it feels great for Orcs like we get to do fun things the gorkonat has a 20 attack shooter that has a rapid fire 10 so you still get to fire 30 times oh the Coconuts like under 400 points right it's solid is it like 300 points yeah gorgonauts 290 and the markets 305. so the gorgonaut looks pretty much like a questorus frame Knight it's different but it's pretty close and it's like real cheap it might actually not be terrible to take one I think either a gorgonaut or a Mark and I are very reasonable they're probably not optimal but they're at least an option that will do things instead of just being wow that looks cool I do think Orcs they're one of the factions that gets the most out of the everything it's an ability like we talked about with the guard Lehman Russ's all of the like knob butts like uh all of your Elite Orcs your Commandos looters flash gets each of them gets a unique ability that really helps them stand out from the others they don't feel like weapon swaps on a generic knob yes I mean there's still a few that like Big Mac with custom force field and big Mac with shock attack on I actually felt like those actually feel unique for once instead of just they make the force feel really bad so you'll stop taking it yeah I mean it does feel kind of unique you're right but at the same time like it feels like it's still do I really need both of them you would rather not have to have it be one sheet and only get one ability right if it became a war gear they'd probably lose something yeah you only get to choose one kind of thing and and like the shock attack gun gives you the more DACA ability which makes it fun and you can make him go with like some shooty boys or Ludas or whatever yeah and then then you've got your defensive and your custom force field guy oh he also gets the more DACA though I figured that was the exclusive rule for the shock attack gun okay I kind of wish they had been differentiated more I see what you're saying now they have differences and I can see it but there's a couple that I think could have done better I mean basically everything is playable honestly like the well other than the Stompa oh yeah The Stomp is real bad real bad other than that I think basically everything has potential and can I say I love Moz Rog I was just gonna say masrog might actually get used he feels real good it was always just get the Beast boss I'll also shout out knobs feel really good they're a unit that like the entire time we've played knobs have been like the ew don't take knobs use them for bits knobs actually look like you might be using like knobs with a war boss and have a nice pretty tanky unit yeah because their toughness five and minus one to wound like if you shoot a Bolter at them you're only wounded on sixes that's pretty good actually and they've got two wounds their save is only a four but whatever you can't have everything and it's still an orc yeah I mean it'd be neat to actually be able to play them I do I actually like that the Run herd is put into with the Gretchen and like is that not a separate thing anymore that no one ever took because they just wanted the Gretchen yeah it's just a unit now jokes aside I think actually taking like the 20 Gretch in with two of those run herds and uh zogrog isn't terrible I was gonna bring that up but I don't think it's good I think you're going to play it though I think I'm going to try and play it I will say with your grand Obsession Mech guns are looking real spicy with the points yeah you might be able to play like nine Mech hunts it would be interesting I haven't fully thought through on what's possible here but that's partially because it feels like anything is possible the weird boy they showed him off and I think it was disingenuous how much better he is as a orc psycher than like any other option Orcs is getting yeah just a bit and I think that that's one of the great things about how you can put the ability on like the character sheet feet and then put that with the actual units and you get like these weird orky things you know like it feels like Orcs are doing just dumb [ __ ] and it's working out so I I think oryx did a great job of showing that like you can actually Squad things together and it feels right instead of I don't know I guess with ninth I just it never really felt like you were actually playing like a squad I get what you're saying and I do think tank does that better and it seems fun in Orcs yes Orcs lore wise is all about the like having the boss everything revolves around like people following a leader I'm glad that they were able to encapsulate that and it feels right works is a big win for me all right are you ready to talk about uh xenos ad Mech sure let's talk about leagues of photon so votan's Army rule I have the ancestors is the fixed Grudge token basically called during the uh did they Nerf them too fast episode thing we did I don't remember what we called that where we agreed they did not Nerf them too fast that was correct to do it was well done but we basically called like judgment tokens might come back next Edition but they sure won't look like this I mean this is a perfectly fine version of it it follows the flavor well enough and it has a powerful effect it's a good army rule they pay for it just like admac did by worsening Ballistic skills so they don't hit on twos all game however they did it right as we said before and the elite unit still hit good right like you've got your Hearth guard still hitting ballistic Skill 3 so they hit on twos because they're the elite dudes as it should have been for ad back except yeah Detachment rule I don't think it's very good seems pretty bad honestly so the first ability is like the real one of just start the game with two judgment tokens the second ability while it takes up more physical space I don't think is very important it was just because they were like what's a little extra we can throw on there right it's a fine vanilla faction I don't think it's a bad Detachment rule it's just I expect after your codex you'll be playing other stuff yeah the two judgment tokens right away is kind of what is useful out of it but and you have other ways to do it assuming enhancements exist in more than one place stuff like that right after an FAQ which we'll get to in a second the strides are I don't know man I've gone back and forth on liking several of them I don't think there's a problem with them they're totally fine they're nothing to write home about but they're totally fine I guess part of my issue is votan voton kind of has an identity crisis for how I expected to play I don't know if it does man it play is exactly like you expect dwarves to play it's just fantasy dwarves they've got good Tech they hold grudges against people they've got good armor everything here does the thing that I expect them to do they've got their Warrior pride thing like caring about the ancestors and gimli's family and blah blah blah yeah I guess I don't know man it just it's a dwarf what do you want I don't know I guess I just want it to be more unique because it just feels like all of this is just generic random [ __ ] that has been you're describing Eldar yeah I am it's the same thing for a different crowd all right it is fine I like their enhancements although the one that is like the auto take needs a fix appraising glare technically ends at end of phase it should say end of turn oh let's see another one of those it in the orc one there's a couple where they set phase instead of turn and they don't do anything unless they say turn I expect a praising glare and long list are like a hundred percent of lists spam out judgment tokens yeah and then you always take a call obviously you're going to be dumping judgment tokens all over the place it's gonna feel like a cross between where ad Mech and Space Marines are and I would say eliteness wise that's about where they're standing is Space Marine adjacent necron-ish ah I say necron B is the hurricane Warriors like nail necron Warriors pricing they're like slightly more expensive but they have all those options that are all free whereas necrons don't get any of the shiny bits right okay I can accept that when you said it I was like that doesn't sound right at all Brad I think you're insane but looking through it yeah ballistic skill 4 because you're gonna upgrade it to three and they didn't want the basic troop to have ballistic skill 2 wall game basically and then there's a bunch of War gear options that make things and then I mean like earthgard are T6 two wounds they're essentially gravis yeah essentially they're also like the thing I like best which is probably why I'm equating him to gravis yeah I was like you know two is basically the same as three shut up I hate they're not called Berserkers which I found out literally yesterday or today I think they're actually pretty good yeah they're very good I just I don't like Slayers and in the fantasy stuff I don't dig the naked fat dude Vibe I see that in the mirror I don't need it in my game that's funny they're even all balding it's terrible yeah I mean other than that though like I think the berserks are good the lane Fortress oh okay so the sagittar is too expensive and the land Fortress it sounds insane but it's not that much but it's probably about 40 points too expensive I mean it's too expensive at 200 points I think it's an incredibly good model it's like 245 or something yeah it's I think it is 245 which is it might the real range is probably like 220 I bet but whatever it's in the ballpark you can play one it won't be the worst thing but it's definitely not gonna be the best I expect it won't be a times three in every Photon list like it was no know and if it is then something happened or photon's doing very poorly I think if I were to do anything in photon I would let you double up on the size of the basic troop so that you could take 20 of them like a necron warrior which is exactly what I felt with with sisters if that was like a tear so you've got space man's at five to ten and then you've got the like half step below of like the we're not Space Marines but we're famously tough outside of being man in tin can right and those were all the 10 to 20s and the big thing is because 20 you could get so many Buffs piled on it they feel really good which Warriors pull off really well dangerously so but sisters and votan I think that's what I would fix more than points or anything I think that that would actually help with how voton doesn't really feel right to me having a solid like 20 model battle line that you can just park out there and have just this big unit with some special guns that sounds right it just it sounds like that's what it should be doing so but then again like this is Photon guess what you don't have all of your army yet yeah which is why we're able to talk about like literally every unit yeah I think they'll be fine all right enough dwarves let's talk about some bugs something even shorter yeah let's move on to tyranids so their army rule is two of them technically two of them yeah we've got synapse and Shadow in the warp I mean synapse again I mean this is I it's this battle shock thing man I don't know synapse is basically required because they gave them all bad leaderships and synapse to counteract it okay so if you get out of position you're going to get Battle shocked you won't be able to use stratagems you can't hold objectives tyranids is going to play pseudo Castile in small ways shadow in the warp is weird because very few models can use it so like you could have issues actually using shadow in the warp but forcing a battle shock on every one of your opponents units in either player's command phase you can time it perfectly to try to screw up their objective game on like turn three and really screw up their game plan yeah so I didn't actually see that it was either persons yes which makes it much better yeah that could be really game breaking let's say they've got some units that have to take battle shock tests you could make them do it twice hey you passed the first one how about the second oops you lost your home objective okay I'm on board it's not super strong it's very low power to be honest compared to some of the others but it's going to be very swingy and it's going to I think be a little trickier I mean it at least has uses now the Detachment rule is one of my least favorite things but it's a lot less offensive I mean I think it's just good it's fine my problem is I always hate the like Custom Tailor against your opponent thing and I think the Precision One probably goes too far even if it's only on crits maybe yeah it is custom but it's not like anything's particularly no the lethal hit sustain hits is like an all-in-one way for you to to like tailor your list for like what you're going for yeah but it's also not like oh my God can't believe they've done that it's not to the black Templars level I think the Precision one is a bit iffy whatever it won't matter because I'm going to bet good money that you're not playing this Detachment come October kind of hope not because it's kind of boring I'm expecting to see more interesting things yeah tyranids of anything have such a wide range of what they can do I want to see those first slanted attachments I want to see oh here's your horde Detachment for hormigons here's a sweet shooty Detachment so my exocrines are dirty yeah hint they're already dirty yeah I just think that this is fine for a start but I want more unique things but the stratagems are they're very fine they're very middle of the road as far as the stratagems have gone the endless swarm thing I assume is going to be in all the horde detachments I like it it's one of those like out of all of them like the rest of them are there's some generic stuff that you like whatever I think the end of swarm's just fun yeah enhancements is like adaptive biology alien cunning are stupid good synaptic linchpin is probably not going to be used and perfectly adapted is going to be a do you have points yeah I mean alien cunning that type of ability is strong and yeah adaptive biologies just like take it right yeah after your first wound is gone you have before I feel no pain the first one you still have a five up yeah right you still have a five up and that's wild these are all fine but the actual units now points changed a lot of my opinions yeah exocrine's look cracked I loved them already uh carnifexes look amazing I think carnifex spam is going to be really fun Monster Mash in general looks really fun the horror specs looks amazing Monster Mash looks so damn fun the new artillery gaunts are not okay they should not be that cost and they still need to be FAQ to only affect one unit Fair zoanthropes got nerfed to Oblivion but also became so cheap that they might actually be op in a whole new way they've never been before I loved the Trigun in the malloc until we saw how many points they were yeah I do think termagant Castle is a real thing really yeah there's a lot of stacking like auras and leading and stuff you can do in nids nids is one of the only armies that I think has a large number of auras because so many of their leaders are monsters right okay fair enough and so you could just make a big gaunt carpet around like some dudes in the middle giving out a bunch of Buffs who are already tanky and the ones that are the worst could take adaptive biology you could end up with a pretty solid Castle that'd be cool I mean I'm a big fan of gaunts going wild the tyrannosite is actually like a proper drop pod that seems very good uh hivegard actually are kind of hilarious because over watch does not require a line of sight so Spore mines they're luckily way too expensive thank God okay they realized that was a problem three models 50 points probably too much right I almost wish they were 10 more points just to ensure you never took them over gaunts you still spawn them by using biovore yeah the biovore the biovore makes them I think the harpy or the hive Crone or whatever one of them makes the other one the sporosist makes one but you can make a list that makes a bunch of mines and it could be funny but I don't think it's good so I'm okay with it it's only Annoying when the correct way to play tyranids is take 27 stupid Spore mines I think it's one of those like aphids possible but not good that's where I want it yes if you're doing it for memes I'm fine with it if it's objectively correct it's wrong yes and I was concerned so I'm happy to have those concerns laid to rest because like even at three models at 50 with the rest of the list I was like um I don't know I think nids is a mixed bag but generally good I think they're probably upper half of the indexes but the specific flavor you like might be out of fashion until October definitely looking forward to the actual codex on this one oh there's one very stupid thing Warriors without guns cost more than warriors with guns this has to be it has to be accidental right there's no world where you would ever purposely pick one without a gun you do it because you ran out of the slots for the ones with guns sure it's so weird [Laughter] those Point costs have to have been swapped on accident they misread when typing them in it's possible but I guess I don't care all right uh that does it for xenos then yeah it's chaos time yeah nothing's gonna jump out of a gutter and bite us or anything nah it doesn't sound right all right so uh it's time for a call to Ambush oh no Jean Steelers we saved them for last partly for meme purposes of course for unfunny jokes as people with a podcast have to do but I honestly think Gene Steeler Cults have like one of the absolute best indexes I am super [ __ ] hyped for it it's so good it's Army rule Army rule fantastic 10 out of 10 great design it is now up there with Miracle dice for me on don't take this away from them it's so flavorful and correct and it's good too it would depend entirely on if the units were priced too much for it but they're not yeah you're right it's very flavorful it feels right and I mean I think it's very strong so I'm All Aboard brood Brothers It's again it's one of those soup things it doesn't matter it's probably wrong to do unless astrom time has cracked units that are under costed oops that's why I'm like I don't know man they don't ever get the gene sealer word you're using them in a vacuum you can't give them orders you can't give them orders and that's probably why it's a bad idea I think it's still just a flavor thing as long as it's not the best thing to do it's fine yeah it's nice to have the option if you're just doing casual flavor stuff but Detachment rule Ascension Day this is a really good index Detachment yeah ignores cover huh also all weapons not melee weapons yeah you come out of deep strike and all of your shooting has sustained hit ones ignore cover that's pretty good it doesn't seem balanced at all honestly it's pretty solid so again people will joke but you're shooting Gene Steeler Cults so it's real bad but this is the army that I found the most things that seem to stack as Buffs like you could spend like four CP on a perfectly set up unit and end up with something that makes Stern guard veterans Lush and you're paying eight points a model I mean I don't hate the idea of having Gene Steelers do that type of play no the clever setting up the perfect execution of like five things falling into place and getting a big Wombo Combo that's what Gene sealers is for I'm good with that I think Gene Steelers have nailed their target audience and will do them proud they just seem so fun it's interesting that the enhancements have a lot of CP refund type thing yeah guard Gene sealers stuff like that seem to be the you're going to get get a bunch of CP because we expect you to spend a bunch of CP yeah like you're going to need this whereas the more Elite ones tend to be you generate at the normal rate but you have a classic character model who makes something free and lets you use it twice instead yeah yeah so in a gene Steeler actual data sheets aberrance have a four up feel no pain they do pay for it Unfortunately they are more expensive now but they look legit I love the abominant I don't think he's probably correct to play but I'm going to do it anyway uh Ridge Runners kept Crossfire which is super interesting and Crossfire is an ability that Stacks with everything else now because it gives an AP to anything that shoots oh interesting there's a bunch of Wombo Combo like you can stack up a bunch of stuff in a perfect scenario your acolytes can all take their flamers which is a perfect thing for a bunch of stuff to get AP and stuff on I do think it's a little weird biophages I think is better to take with with like metamorphs than with aberrance when I always assume he's like the apparent character but I think you just take him with the metamorphs and have the average take an abominant I guess okay I mean interestingly it seems like Gene Steelers are pretty resilient it depends I'm pretty sure you're gonna be running 80 neophytes minimum fair enough I think it's going to be just like arcs of almond where that is like the first thing you put in your army and they die like crazy but that's the point of the entire Army abilities you don't care exactly it feels like the resilient because the Army ability and like the other things are actually reasonably tough they're tricky tough yeah they all tend to be like T4 with a bad save T3 with a bad save but they have like random feel no pains or minus one to be hit or so yeah I really like the gene Steelers right now I think if you're playing Gene Steeler Cults you are in for a good time for the beginning of 10th and while I think quite a few xenos armies made out really well I do think I'd say Gene sealer Cults made out the best I feel like the Italian jackals Scout nine is going to be rather strong it is funny they have an ability that would be like where you put your upside ability but instead it's a Nerf it's like an FAQ The outrider Gangs you're like ooh what's this give me and it's like called ambushes very hard for them do not get gamey with this crap yeah which is good it reads very much like a we almost took this away from them but you can keep it but here's a limit yeah if they took it away it would have been rather disappointing yeah to have something excluded from it yeah overall Gene Steelers feels like it's going to play Jean Steelers like it's a finesse Army if you have the right positioning if you have the right buff stacking it's going to do well all right we are finally into chaos let's start things off with chaos nights because it should be pretty quick chaos Knights you say harbingers of dread yeah so we've got the uh Army rule is this dread thing again huh it's a lot less awful to deal with this time though you are going to constantly have to measure 12 inches over and over again to see who's in the aura every single command phase but whatever that is about the only real annoyance out of it though just because how battle shock works it's a lot easier to figure out what's happening kind of thing I do wonder how broken it was that they needed to put it to battle round three for Doom and darkness I feel like you could get rid of some of the complexity here by just saying these are two bullet point abilities you have Despair and then doom and darkness but I guess keeping it from turn one two with any bad luck keeps you from like truly blowing your opponent off the board yeah and knights should be really tanky this Edition so I'm expecting they actually do stick around to turn three to take advantage now as opposed to before where you'd have like half your nights gone by turn three yeah and I mean I think it does another one of those like the longer you're in the presence kind of thing the scarier it is I'm not sure I rate this up with Imperial Knights no it's not as good as Imperial Knights but I think this is still reasonably good we had what I consider to be one of the worst designed ones previously this one is fine yeah so hopefully the uh Detachment rule doesn't ruin that so the Detachment rules got no one of those starting strength kind of things as well so and I think the Detachment rule I don't like the basic Detachment for chaos nights I think it's a fine default Detachment but it's not one that I would particularly play it reminds me of house corvus I don't like going all in on battle shock stuff I know it plays into our army rule but I kind of wish I could just kind of like accept the Army rule as a bonus and focus on other things I think it's a cool Focus you go in all in if you're playing against Dark Angels or sonic OC fanfic Crusader black Templars if you're playing against either of those you're going to be in for a bad time with your army and Detachment rules because you put all your eggs in one bad basket if you're against a random Army this probably does really dirty things at times the biggest problem is like this is the index one it would be a neat like let's go all in on it but I chose this I degree but I also wonder if people wouldn't choose it without being forced to try it first and they really want to show off battle shock fair enough I get why this would be the one you pick that's acceptable it has the most energy with your army ability you're going to see I'm sure right yeah I was like We'll see I mean battle shock's new territory so chaos Knights also did not get the weird imperial knight thing where they got chassis locked for when they can take their enhancements 100 good with that fact is a man who owns a serestis frame and then stratagems are good the only one that matters is we kept diabolical ball work also known as rotate evil eye on Shields would have been hilarious if they had forgotten to give chaos that one there's good ones in here like Long Leash Terra Shades is actually pretty decent makes me appreciate the abominant more I still don't like what they did with the abominant but I understand it more with Terror Shades I will say the war dogs are absolutely cracked yeah the Executioner is very strong they got a bunch of Buffs compared to last Edition a lot of the other dogs are just very good they always wear their fine they continue being fine but the brigand the shooty dogs the double guns yes they naturally hit on twos that's new if you target the closest unit with your attacks you get an extra AP you already have an AP you already wound Marines on threes including Terminators you already hit on twos and you have a lot of attacks and you get a lot of DACA brigands are dirty I don't know if they'll like beat out other options where it turns out split hitting is always better whatever but I will be running brigands and I'm also the man who basically jumped out of my seat this morning when I found out the spoilers don't have to pay points for their double gun loadout and I am a huge [ __ ] for double Gatling cannons finally we have been freed you were trying to push that nonsense we are no longer Shackled by a 200 Point tax to take a pair of guns all the questorus frames or sorry were abhorrent frames all of them went down in points some of them considerably they look cracked until you remember they were unplayable there's a reason we all souped in avadon that is true but just looking at like the night like chaos Knights and Imperial Knights these are priced to sell they both get away with murder in the indexes they are some of the best there is I don't think it's wrong either like if vehicle toughness actually means that Knights are very hard to take down in practice games they might have to go back up in points but if they're functionally about as tough as they've always been where you blow up a night to turn on average in a good list then they're probably at the right points where they are now with the Buffs to their questorus frames yeah it's hard to tell we'll see it is really nice that with the new Point values it's pretty easy to actually play three large Knights and still get eight full models I kind of think the answer in chaos is actually just War Dogs spam still and maybe take one or two nights it's almost always going to be the right choice on but that's why they had to come down so much that's why it's also weird it kind of has to be until it's just very obviously war dogs are wrong at which point they're going to be so bad that you just like can't use them and then you're stuck with like oh okay I guess I have a 1700 Point Army or something ridiculous like that you know like but so long as the actual night frames are costed well enough to be worth it kind of thing especially because if you're not able to destroy multiple per turn then you're getting enough out of it kind of thing but if that toughness doesn't give you that then it doesn't really matter that the points went down at which point you just need more war dogs because you just need more things to force split fire I will say the Knight Tyrant is spicy I don't think it's correct but it's like it's not an embarrassment anymore and it can actually equip its own warlord traits and Relics like it always should have been in ninth because you know these are supposed to be the leader nights yeah and for some reason they were banned from all the Warlord traits and Relics in ninth Edition I still think that the fact that the Tyrant gives War Dogs benefit of cover is weird it's supposed to be that his ion Shields are so big that it helps them okay okay it is supposed to show like his ion Shields cover other people that makes sense it's functionally useless in my opinion on a like normal board layout absolutely it's six inches from it I guess it helps if you have to play against Planet bowling ball or something I guess but like positional awareness they're way more important ability is the you can't deep strike within 12 of the Tyrant meaning you can never deep strike charge him that's big that is nice anyway let's move on to something with a little more meat on it let's do chaos Space Marines this is the one we're going to dread so we might as well get it done with and then Zoom through the rest okay so the Army rule is dark packed it's fine I like it it's very csme I understand iron Warrior players being mad and night Lord players being mad because like they preferred this to be a Detachment thing because they prefer to not be chaos CSM their Renegades who don't bow to the gods right I get that argument but like it's just they have to make it not just be Space Marines or spikes exactly and the dark packs give the right feeling I will say they're detached is one of the ones that I expect post codecs you will still pick because slaves to Darkness is a decent Detachment rule it has interesting stratagems even if they're a little wonky I like what they were trying with them the only thing I hate is when we get to the enhancements I'm not a big fan of the Detachment but part of it's just because I don't like how it's been split up particularly the Detachment rule having corns each lethal hits and there we go slanesh sustained hits it's just weird I feel like slin Nash and corn are in the right spot in this book and the demon codex got it backwards okay either way it doesn't seem right there's a disconnect between the two whether it's chaos bass Marines is writer and the demons is right like somebody's wrong the real thing is like they didn't want nurgle to have stealth they wanted to cut that off real quick we were trying to find the keyword that matches each of the four they would not all be equal and I get that I accept that but like doesn't seem right so not that it's bad or anything like that but okay what's your problem with enhancements though uh read them you only gotta get three words in are you saying you don't like eyes each um you get five enhancements yeah you get one enhancement yeah there's one for each of the sections essentially corns each nerd Golson Ash I read this one before I read demons and I was like God damn it we're only gonna get like five of these things aren't we and I was wrong yeah data sheet wise CSM actually looks very good honestly a very fun mix of stuff Point wise I didn't keep up too much I saw that some people were upset with one or two things some people thought noise Marines were too cheap [ __ ] they're very cheap I'll agree there's no such thing I for the most part I'm very happy with CSM stuff you can basically play them just like with space brains like pick the stuff you like it's probably beat here right okay that's kind of how I feel about it assuming you pick good loadouts if you pick havocs and give them all garbage guns that's on you there's always ways to do it wrong but a lot of it seems right but I don't know enough about the points to really without looking at points all I want to do in life is play a gigantic blob of a curse Cultus and then give them the HQ of the five cultist characters the dark commune and then just buff them to Kingdom Come and Play Stupid cultist mutation Mash I don't know how good I can make it but it's it's something in here and I want to do it that's fair and like because that's like a thing you could do that kind of shows like how much variety there is in here you can play Demon engine spam although of the things I kept up on why is Lord disco so expensive he is not very good now yeah I was like hold on I think Lord disco's dead isn't he he's really dead the problem is they made the new totally not Tech Marine whatever they're called warp Smith yes warp Smith they made him have a new model so they made the other demon engine HQ bad so that you would go buy three of the new model yeah they both buff the same units so why make them both good welcome to a Space Marine faction enjoy your stay I gotta say vast door actually looks better than he did in ninth so that's nice that is good I think overall CSM like it's hard to talk about specifics because there is a lot it's just like with Space Marines we're like I'm not sitting here and talking to 90 data sheets right but there's a lot of good stuff in here corn Lord of skulls is all you need in life go get yourself one I mean solid investment and also more noise Marines so I guess I don't know let's just do demons yeah so the Army rules shadow of chaos I think it's good I think it's very situational and carried by how it's mutated by the data sheets and stratagems which I actually kind of like because what they do with demons is smash them all together I like the idea of keep something kind of generic that we can play with based on how you're gonna do stratagems and all that kind of stuff but I don't think they went far enough to that point it's undivided it has to be flavorless chaos house and like shadow of chaos is kind of the best you're gonna get for that yeah probably the Detachment rule is essentially this looks very fun as long as you don't play as each guess which one I play yeah I guess it's not great for Siege okay it's really good for three out of four which is kind of why all four don't want to be together stratagems are pretty good for the most part actually as much as I was joking about the like not for each thing draw out of Terror looks really good for zeech yeah and they're good options to have that aren't forced into one section which is good end of everything demonic and vulnerability this is something that I know AOS players say is not okay they took this out of AOS this used to apparently be a thing oh really re-roll saves of one was a way to show you were Hyper Elite like custodies would have reroll saves a one okay and it's apparently very not okay balance wise and they gave it to us as a stratagem at one CP I have a feeling it's just like armor of contempt you're going to spam it every turn it's only for shooting phase sure but like we only have a five up for everyone but zinch right it might be okay but it might be okay specifically because we have bad saves I don't know I don't want to do the math it's literally 1 30 in the morning but yeah you bring up valid concerns on that speaking of Valley concerns welcome to the enhancements page I was wrong when I was concerned about them only having five enhancements and only getting to use one because we only get four enhancements yeah they didn't even give us an undivided one for if you wanted to take a demon Prince or something nope I mean for what they are no [ __ ] you don't even defend this [ __ ] no they are okay guess what if you're playing corn corn one's fine the corn one's good the normal one's good the zinc ones kind of [ __ ] awkward uh the slanesh one is a toy sounds right the awkward part is the nergo one goes right back into the like the they know this is nurgle stick they just won't give it to nurgle they'll give it to literally anybody else for free yep but nerkles Gotta Get A Relic for it and not play death guard it really does doesn't make sense but but ever and said before I feel no pain so [ __ ] off yeah right so yeah I mean the the enhancements honestly for what they are are fine but like you don't get options so that's not fun all right so this is four armies of data sheets so let's go through this differently yeah nurgle I think you're going to be okay but nurglings and plague bears are the worst part of your army which is awkward because they're like your basic units so are the nerdlings like actually bad nurglings will follow kind of what they do in ninth they are infiltrators they have oc0 they can't capture points right but they're infiltrators meaning you can set them up to block off your opponent in their deployment Zone make them get past the nerdlings first and they do have a bunch of wounds in T3 and they're still reasonably cheap so okay yeah and then minus one hidden melee including they cause that for like literally everything so in case they're around they still get minus one to hit nurglings are interesting they're kind of like a debuffer unit which I mean it should still be useful but not as like the core part of your battle line no and play Bear's thing is just being two wounds whatever Beast of nerga look great play drones look okay you might actually run your fortification which has been on and off good over the couple of editions now great on Cleveland and radicus both look pretty decent that's about all you have uh slanesh if you enjoyed playing the early part of 9th Edition with three keepers of Secrets and slacksy you're going to enjoy playing 10th edition yeah just a little bit also the secret chariots look stupid as hell that ability ain't okay yeah that does look quite nice yeah let's uh charge in and do the old uh devastating wounds anti-infantry yikes so yeah slinach is looking pretty damn good corn honestly I joked before points that this is code ice corn and friends after points who the hell price blood letters it's 16 points a model they're one wound yeah they only have a five up save I think they're paying for the sins of the Red Master because when I read the red Masters ability I was like oh my God this is so broken if this costs 200 points you still take them yeah if he costs less than that you take three at all times the blood Throne ability for those who don't know is a unit in 18 visible to it until the end of phase for the fight phase corn units that make an attack against that unit have a strength an AP and a damage it's not bad 18 inches is huge actually yeah it's like a normal psychic range for the most part yeah but that's not psychic what the [ __ ] man and everything in this Army deep strikes so before blood letters were 16 points I was like this is insane but now that they're that expensive I'm like I guess you play Blood Crushers sure his buff is less important the less attacks you have which is why it's not that important for the bloodthirsters but they look very good too I just think corn in general is very good blood letters look way overpriced unless I'm undervaluing them for some reason I don't think it's worth the amount even as like a trade piece all right so uh let's talk about the god of magic and his 230 Point models that cast one spell oh lord of change oh Kairos fateweaver both of them cast one spell Kairos is a good model for unrelated reasons but that's some [ __ ] Lord of change is a triple Caster I'll remind you he's now a single Caster it's one good spell but it's one spell yeah and it still has all the downsides of becoming a gun don't worry the shitty range on it can be improved if you take the Relic it also makes it all the way up to strength 10 strength 12 all the way up if you count his own Aura and he's in the shadow in the warp area which is the only anti-tank we're getting in this Army I'm extremely salty I don't even think you're wrong though if you like corn this codex looks great if you like slash this codex is great if you like nurgle at least you're better than death guard if you like giant chickens go [ __ ] yourself I really feel like this is slanesh's no this is corin's codex slanesh has a broken data sheet yeah slanesh might be fine still especially after points but corn has the most love put into that section I'm being an ass about Lord of change because it's literally like my favorite thing and it's stupid how bad it is but the rest of these demons there's some tricks in here I've got a little flamer trick I like I actually think pink [ __ ] look pretty good for their price even though they look very expensive on paper I was gonna say aren't the horrors like still fine they made blue [ __ ] really bad because they were sick of people ignoring pink Horrors right because blue Horrors were like 70 points and bad but everyone ran them because they wanted to run cheap stuff and pink Horrors were like 130 points and they're like fine pink cores are 145 points blue Horrors are 130. do the math so yeah I think pink Horrors are actually pretty good now flamers are okay I think screamers are still just terrible I don't understand screamers man you've got the magic shooty faction you give it a fast attacking melee trade piece that melee's bad and can't take a hit what why are screamers in here other than they look creepy I mean I think they look cool so I'm not gonna ignore that too much but I do feel like they're supposed to be more to it they've always been like this though this is how they've looked since they took away like I know in like sixth or seventh edition there was the screamer bombs where you could have them be in a two up and vulnerable save the whole game so they're still paying for those in huh I guess it's been the entire time we've looked at this game for years now and they're still looking like this I will say this set of flame is the coolest thing ever that can stay but whatever demons is not my favorite oh and bellicorn Demon princes exist oh and we haven't talked about the demon Prince issue in the room there's no issue you know how wings are an upgrade Eric yeah not this Edition really Wings is a separate sheet and they took all the good stuff off it so you have to play the non-winged one hahaha they made it so bad they even admitted this in the points by making winged demon princes cheaper than wingless ones oh that's hilarious they [ __ ] them so bad in public and just made you pay for it they're like yeah everyone on Earth puts Wings on a demon Prince because you'd be an idiot not to because a it's the coolest looking thing ever and B it's the correct choice so all we did was take every good ability off every wing demon Prince and make it so you have to run wingless ones constantly I guess there is the wing demon Prince of corn is actually pretty good as a character Hunter thing but that is like a single case in not every codex because like we'll get to Thousand Suns and death guard yeah speaking of speaking of thousand sons and death guard let's do death guard first let's do death guard first all right we can move on let's do a thousand suns that's about right okay so death card Army rule is this like zone of contagion or whatever it is the worst Army rule in the game it is but I feel like it has a great potential that just wasn't taken advantage of yeah what you want is kind of how 9th Edition handled it where every Detachment would make it do something different right and it's like this is nurgle's Zone and the Detachment does something to that zone yes instead it's an uh oh stinky field yeah and you can make objective stinky by farting on them before you leave I hate the fact that I look at it and I see potential you see how it could have been good yeah could have been something to play around both as you know like you designing your Army list and having to deal with this new thing that's showing up that you have to play against kind of but no it just doesn't matter it's just an annoying Logistics hey remember this circle gets a little bit bigger nothing matters but then you've got your Detachment rule which is near zero oh again like they're bad but it could have been good I'm torn on it because death guard players see themselves the way custodies players do in the Imperium we're the one that doesn't die GW seems to want that to be custody stick and for death guard to go find something else to the point where when we get there the cheapest Terminators are death guard Terminators because they're bad yeah you got a discount rather than being up pointed because you've got better Terminators than everybody else yeah I mean you you've gotta discuss the stratum you've still got this stuff you've still got disgusting reason [Laughter] yeah I mean death guard still does have disgustingly resilient they just have to pay 2 CP per unit and they can only choose to do it once yeah that what you said [Laughter] I'm trying not to be down on these indexes and like try to figure them out death guard though what are you doing it's one thing to have something that's just bad but I see potential and I hate the fact that that potential exists and it's not particularly difficult to go to it but they just didn't and I think it's because like you said their GW is just not actually embracing the fact that nergo death guard is supposed to be this like unkillable kind of thing yes they want to focus on the stinky yeah that's not fun sorry and I can't imagine that there are many death guard players that would disagree with me on that I want to sell it as like they're supposed to be a debuff based Iron Man where you make your opponent look like crap but like they've got the stinky Aura and then they don't follow it up it's just annoying and it's not like this is the first time either ninth didn't do well death guard is not a real bad streak at this point don't worry Eric you can take your death guard demon Prince not with wings and he can give you an aura of a six up feel no pain wonderful I hate seeing armies that fail to do what the people who play it want it to do you know the consuming plague that's just spreading rot that would be another way to do it okay maybe they cause mortal wounds around them constantly and you stack up that way that's how AOS nergal works right now they went away from the super tanky towards the AOE mortaling everything constantly I do think there's basically two ways to play death guard right now you can do plague Marine death stars which doesn't look terrible or you can do just play as many vehicles as possible that's how I would go about it yeah let's move on to something more exciting one of your armies thousand Sons psychic so we already had the psychic rant and to be honest they bribed thousands on his players because we kept cabal of sorcerers yeah Kabbalah Sorcerers is still very strong and basically lets us play with a pseudo spell list because we got to keep Doom bolt we got keep a new version of twist of fate temporal surge Weaver of Fates Echoes from the warp looks good I mean that all depends on the rest of the stratagems kind of thing yes and we do have very good stratagems but I do think it's really hard to pass up Doom bolts it's pretty hard to pass up twist of Fates too but all the cabal rituals are really good it comes down to the fact that you're going to need a lot of cabal points luckily they totally fix their ability and our problem with 9th edition of being five data sheets because anything that wasn't a cycle didn't give cabal points oh no they didn't do that the cabal points look great but you still need a bunch of them to be able to do anything so look the nice part about the index is you've already read it because you've read your codex they did not stray far from cabal points they were like that looked pretty good I'm afraid to break it let's not change a [ __ ] thing yeah so we'll be playing the exact same list we played 9th Edition again I had problems with the way way that it was done but I think that for 10th this is very good thousand suns is a small range you always end up running the same list because you made the range even smaller we're like Harlequin size we're almost identical in size to them every bit of thought that went into a thousand suns list was about your spells you made that all static that was like the coolest part of thousand songs that's what I was always envious of I had 18 spells to pick from Super envious of that you could set up really complex characters where you want to set up like three different spells you could try doing cool stuff with a relic and a spell combo all sorts of fun it's all gone your list is going to be start to finish every game the exact [ __ ] same you're not going to change it I am worried about the longevity of the army from that I am happy cabal of sorcerers keeps some of it you actually still have psychic options it's just not at list building really I'm very concerned about the fact that our man is like strictly better than every other option for five more points why is that a problem because it's a named epic hero character who I don't want to be taking in every single game but I have to because I have five units yeah that's all right you sure aren't spending 200 points on a Model that provides you zero cabal points when all of our Army's power relies on you to have a bunch of cabal points very true they even took away the chaos spawn tricks and made our chaos spawn very boring the exactly two chaos spawn is very cruel oh okay thousand sons was unique because instead of just using one for a back point we would occasionally Run 10 chaos spawn and two five mans buff him to holy hell and Chuck him into stuff and it was fun that Trick's gone yeah I did not pay attention to that at all you only you only get the option of two there's one exception to the cabal thing and this is the FAQ that is definitely going to happen you know hell brutes that thing that isn't a psycher in Thousand Suns even though it should be because it's a thousand Sun I know the Deep lore they're not really thousand Sons [ __ ] you that's stupid as hell and that's just an excuse to make them not psychers and you know it sure I'll I'll accept that so the Thousand Sun hell brute not a psycher thus gives no cabal points however it has a little ability on it Eric Arcane knowledge amidst babbling Insanity an aura model within nine inches of this model is selected to use a ritual you gain one cabal point that doesn't say one model with this ability if you put three hell routes into your list put them all in your psycher area you get minus three cabal points on the price of every single thing you use all right then so we'll be running times three hell routes until that gets FAQ and then we'll be putting them back on the Shelf I think that's pretty obviously not intended but at the same time we're thousand suns player and we have to have some spite here yeah it was like but I I fully support the idea of running that into the ground we will cause holy hell until you give us back our goddamn spells I mean you've got great Terminator still though the thoughts are fantastic although again it does my least favorite thing of your sorcerer Lord guy would give zero Buffs if he wasn't a psycher he apparently never actually took military training he just psychic powered his way through it I mean if anybody would do thousand Sons would have been the one to do that Mutual of the four attacks Beast still continues to not give any cabal points out of the entire codex the only thing that doesn't have the word psychic on it is warp Vortex The mutelift Vortex beasts giant ball of warp energy isn't psychic now that psychic is just a gun even though it is literally a warp Vortex thus made of the warp I mean it's a buff that it isn't it's actually not you have to remember we skipped over our Detachment rule because I was so mad we get Buffs to all of our stuff that's psychic oh yeah you get the uh stained hits and sustained lethal or devastating wounds yeah no it would be better if it was psychic in this Army that's funny that's like legitimately hilarious it's always bothered me that it wasn't a psychic thing I was like just give me the male receptors data sheet they're the exact same size very similar and feel yeah they're both big psychic monsters why is the meaning of Vortex Beast not psychic but the malice after is but anyway the mule of Vortex piece actually has an ability this time it's pretty decent it still angers me to no end from a warthrow standpoint that the thing with a giant warp ball doesn't cause psychic and that it also doesn't give cabal points when it's supposed to be the thing that makes you cast better I'm definitely looking forward to the 1000 Suns codex comes out and we get to think and reevaluate this one I think the index is very strong my problems with it are problems I've had with ninth editions codex right I still think this is good but I have to have these rants because it's been bothering me this whole time and it continues to get [ __ ] up I feel like you're saying this is good because you know what could have happened and in comparison to the potential that was this is awesome like it's not bad definitely not bad but let's move on to world leaders world leaders actually look very good very nice for world leader players other than the classic issue of you need five to ten more models including ones that you probably already own and got told you can't play with anymore and none of this helps uh no so your army rule is very good is incredibly strong it looks random it is not it's definitely not once you get into enhancements but statistically incredibly strong Army rule it requires you to understand it a little bit but yes it is very obviously a zinc mechanic that for some reason world leaders got last second because rukari stole theirs yeah it doesn't thematically match world leaders at all not at all the only thing that matches is Corn's number is eight it doesn't make any sense and I don't like it it's not that I want world leaders corn to be simple and Unga Bunga smash but I don't want this on the plus side the Detachment rule is easy we already read blood angels the stratagems have fantastic names two of them should have been swapped but that's a different thing oh like the effect in the name are terrible but they're fine stratagems so when we get to enhancements favorite of corn is essentially just required your army rule becomes so consistent it's disgusting I'm not gonna whip out the napkin math for it but know that you were moderately reliable to get anything you wanted on that table without favorite of corn with favorite of corn you can be mad on turns where you don't have the exact rule you want right that's fair and your other enhancements are good but that one is like super required if you were going to play this it's re-roll all your dice after you read the results yeah but it doesn't count as re-roll and you can still do other things to it yeah it's busted in every way it could be busted yeah okay that makes more sense on like you're right statistically you should be able to get whatever you want I don't even think we've mentioned the other primaries but inground's very good Laura or to invocatus or whatever his name is finally doesn't fly on his stupid pig that's nice they didn't do that stupid thing anymore you hated that so much dude it's a pig on the ground that looks the exact same you literally swap the guy's head for a different head or whatever and suddenly the pig is flying it's hilarious how much that's bugged you for so long on the plus side the world eater index is about as long as the world eater codex I don't think he lost a page might have actually had more content because not as many like picture pages jackals actually look really good basically every unit looks fun barring points and points is the most fixable thing in any army so it's like a I'm okay if something's over costed temporarily and gets fixed later everything here looks fun the only thing I'll say is again it's a very anemic range it's like they half launched it because they had to get it out before 10th started I don't even know why you can't run like your bikers or your Raptor there's any more things that you could run until you got the Codex the only reason I would think they would take them away is they're giving you an exclusive version and it's like okay where's that at yeah but as things stand right now I'll give them the rest of the Edition for Whatever Manufacturing issues they had that held up the other half of this range that's fair I don't I think it's [ __ ] [ __ ] and I think it's going to be absolutely hilarious when Photon gets more of their range before world leaders gets the [ __ ] that they had back I expect that will be the case no matter what yeah what we have seems good like what we see here with world leader seems fine but like if you weren't ready for the actual release if you weren't ready to have the actual models and finish the Army why is this why did you release it it's more funny because like looking at the Detachment this has almost as many rules as the actual codex did and I'm just thinking of like what else would you do what are your other corn attachments you have no model to slant towards there's nothing you can point them towards your this is the blood Angel Detachment what are we doing so I don't think corn needs a codex this Edition because they're not going to get anything else if they get the rest of their range they can get a codex to go with it that said again what's there is very good so like if you're okay with just playing eight bound and Berserkers and jackals you're going to have a ton of fun I do think eight boundary could be fun I think I like the idea of spamming more Berserkers than anything but I don't know I'm not really a good corn guy I like corn demons but that's mostly because the blood thirster is dope as hell yeah I mean I'm just looking at like the a-bound stat line Scout six and it's just I feel like that's gonna be fun you really like Scout man on things like this yes absolutely it's fair it means you don't have to buy like a land Raider to move them exactly like Scout six move nine come on man let's go all right it is official actually after two in the morning we have gone off the deep end hours ago I don't know how much of this is making the Final Cut but we've been here for well over five hours almost six hours so whatever made the Final Cut You can tell how much borrelio had to cut of us rambling hopefully you all enjoyed this if you're still here after everything that we have said boy I hope you're subscribed on YouTube also thank you for sticking around I appreciate you alright but let's get out of here [Music] [Music] [Music] I got

Channel: Poorhammer

Views: 222,237

Keywords: warhammer, 40k, 10th edition, hot takes, space marines, death guard, aeldari, necrons, votann, tyranids, review, preview, admech

Id: AwmFG2gyWZk

Length: 187min 24sec (11244 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 21 2023