Winchester 270 Origin Myth ~ Stupid Wiki Nonsense

welcome back well it was three years ago that I sat here and I extolled the virtues of the 270 Winchester when I did I described it being a Winchester had taken the 3006 necked it down and lengthened this slightly to preclude chambering and buff with warm a new cartridge in 1925 well that started off a bunch of comments that I get on regular basis now from people who correct me that it was actually a development of from the 3003 cartridge well I want to sit here tell you why that's not true and in fact what really what really is behind the whole story first of all the 3003 was never a cottage that was ever manufactured it was only a national production for the military and only lasted for about a year even though there's a three year span between the introduction of the 1903 model rifle in the 1906 model cartridge even though there was a three years being there the actual time that the 30 over that the oh three version of the cartridge was in use was only for about a year little over a year and that original country was a 220 greenwall cartridge that slugged out at only 2300 feet per second and was and was vastly improved by going through 150 grain bullet three years later that traveled at 2,700 feet per second and the reason that was done would because we would we're trying to keep in step with you know basically there was a firearms race at the time there was a munitions and arms race with us and the Germans the German technology was vastly ahead of us we found that out in the spanish-american war when you know generals were complaining that officers were complaining that the death 3040 Craigs were being decidedly out shot by the seven by 57 Mauser which was being used against them much a lot of trajectory and all that stuff so what followed was quite logical you know it's pretty easy to reverse-engineer economy you know you just picked you just pick up the enemies package you say gee that worked pretty good let's see what we can do not to better that so they picked up now this is a 3006 cavalry but they I can just imagine that you know that that our guys were picking these things up off the ground after they was being shot up and bringing it back home and saying can you can you come up with something that will beat this stupid thing and because we're getting our clocks cleaned that's how that's how that progressed and that's our with it that's how the 45 model 1911 was also best death were initiated the that that introduction as well well we have we had a there was an international there was an international crisis of sorts because um we had we had gone and done something was you're naughty if you take a open up the page here if you take a seven by 57 hours of case you look at the dimension of the head 0.47 three that was the dimension of the Mouser head and then a little while after that we came up with the 3006 cartridge and look at the look at the head dimension on that point 473 same exact thing well you know these things get noticed and the Germans the Germans shoot us in international court for damages you know for infringement on their row in Richmond on their rifle design and infringement on their excellent cartridges and you know so Dave they were awarded that they were awarded damages but World War one broke out and got in the way of that thing that settlement so we basically we ran we ran off with we were in off with a one heck of a good rifle and we were in off with one heck of a good ammunition design so and that def just that just follows that just follows with anything in the industry if you know if you if you have if you have something that works you know why change it why you know why mess around and try to reinvent something that's already working just Just Ducky so engineers you know engineers are just as lazy as anybody else you know if if if if they have it if somebody's telling them you know this thing really works wonderfully can you make can you make something that works better and the engineer will say sure well what's the logical thing to do lengthen it you know and he says if I lengthen it how much can i lengthen it and stick in that rifle well you know we're copying the Mauser rifle and you know you can you can stick you can stick a cartridge this I can lengthen it by about a quarter of an ancient still fit in that rifle is that okay with you general just beautiful yeah can you get it to shoot faster than that thing that were shooting this yeah I can so that's what they did that's how the 3006 was invented I'm not there nobody knows you know those people are long gone but that's the desta logic that goes along with with anything anybody who's handloading who's making a wild cat that the best thing to do is to just keep on lengthening what you already have as long as you can and still put it into the gun so to go back to the naming to go back to the naming process the naming process had nothing to do with with the military the military was not hyphenating the term 3003 and 3006 Springfield those those were industrial commercial that were given to a sporting cartridge they use that they use these long highfalutin names even if they have a ballpoint pen I'm sure it's a long highfalutin name so it was ball cartridge 30 US government model of 1903 and then subsequently model of 1906 s the way they that's the way they make these stencils you know when they were stenciling of the crates so it was never called the 3003 and has never called the 3006 and it couldn't and nothing could have been developed off of the countries it was only in existence in Arsenal's and armories of the military for only for less than a year and the end and commercial manufacturers do not hand load ammunition they make ammunition from scratch they what whatever the head stamp goes on that is what they made from the very beginning they never they never reformed brass whether they do is they standardize on things that they already have production from production efficiency and for reduction of costs and manpower so you know in all things whether it's you know the manufacturing of window cranks in the 1950 björk that goes into a 1950 Chevy or 1950 Cadillac or Pontiac it's the same sort of concept of standardization so women 4 7 3 diameter standard became popular in the factory it was you know a lot of things were made off of this that that same standard if you if from from about here back there's a lot of conferences that look identical you know you're talking about over 25 commercial cartridges that have been made with that with that same basic form even with that you would the 45 auto is not much different than the 3006 size case so this is a couple of thousand so a difference but that's that's all but you're talking about the ability of a factory to be able to cup and draw a multitude of brass a lot of different cases you know 243 22 250 3:08 to 8270 2506 they're all they're all on the same for 73 head standard so the cup and drop process is the taking of brass coin you know this stamped out of sheet brass and then progressively punching it in a press which draws it in it draws it out as a long drawn-out process literally and is drawn out progressively 1:1 stamping after another and it has to keep going back to the furnace and getting really old to soften it again for the next anneal it for the next drawing process well they they can get a lot of different they can get a lot of different calibers out of that same out of that same progression of you have cup and drawing until they can finally depending on the amount of brass they start out with they can end up with this and that's that's the longest case that you can fit into a standard length rifle receiver this being made customarily in in this country and abroad so that that's that's the standard which also is followed by you know in in the European industry too you know they they have their own they have their own cartridges which used just they use the same head dimension and same standard so you know then that's a very very that's a very populist style so when Winchester when I say Winchester took the 3006 and they necked it down I was only speaking figuratively they did not take a third year six cartridge and neck it down I'm sure that there are indeed people were probably they probably had a loading press and they probably were you know trying trying out their new invention on a loading press by taping literally taking 3006 brass and necking it down into what they wanted and test it but that was the process but from that point on everything everything moves away from the concept of reforming brass they they have that they have that initial that initial casing it's got a straight wall and a fine that goes into the the last processing where the neck diameter and the shoulder is formed and then it has to be trimmed now they can trim it to any particular length they want the actual the actual measurements of the 3003 don't even come the so called 3003 I'm using the same slang myself because it's easy to slip into us a lot easy to say that then that launched have been named that the military wanted to use so the 3006 cartridge was shortened by seven hundredths or seventy thousand seven inch from the original 1903 tractor D version well if you take if you take that calculator here if you take two point four nine four which is the which is the current which is the current case two point four nine four plus point zero seven seventy thousand equals two point five six for now two point five six for definitely nothing to do with the two seventy case which is two point five four oh see if I got that right two point five four are that I've been loving these things and trimming them for so many years that so two point five for old has nothing to do with that with that number of the air so and that's that that's a moot point like I say arms manufacturers ammo manufacturers they couldn't care less what I know the case measurement is they make them and they trim them whatever they want this it's all up to them the reason why Winchester Mae this case the link that made it is because it was working in the 3006 it fit into a 3006 rifle action and everything about it was just fine the only thing they wanted to do was they wanted to they wanted to make a tract receipt would not be fit easily into a 3006 rifle because when you measure the outside dimension of that case of the case neck it measures point three zero eight three 308 that's a that's a number which is very curious well that's I'm sure that that was done perfectly because that means that that case will bang into the rifling of a of a 30 caliber bore so so that's it so mathematically it doesn't that that doesn't fit the duck doesn't fit the model on a practical basis is ridiculous because Winchester doesn't they didn't reform the ammunition they make the ammunition comes from scratch they can make it whatever they want they standardize they stand that is based on the rifle design that they were working with that was popular and they were also standardizing based on the production of the breasts that's all that's the reason so if you're gonna say that the 270 was based on anything it was based on the 7 by 57 or the 8 millimeter models that that's what they're really based upon so that's all thanks for watching don't forget to subscribe and god bless

Channel: GunBlue490

Views: 153,767

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Id: 2rT7DpXyxfw

Length: 14min 29sec (869 seconds)

Published: Sat Jun 15 2019