Why Across the Spider-Verse Worked and Multiverse of Madness Didn't - SCENE FIGHTS!

we have experience of the Multiverse most recently there was an incident with Spider-Man what man hey welcome back to screen Crush I'm Ryan Airy and I want to talk to you about Spider-Man across the spider-verse and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness two movies with really long titles that just make me wish they'd go back to using Roman numerals on sequels these two movies are very similar but one is a visual Triumph that uses the Multiverse to tell a character based story and the other one is most remembered for this out look I am not hating on Multiverse of Madness I think it's a really great Sam Raimi movie but a mediocre Multiverse movie and I think that Within These two similar movies there is a very similar scene that shows why one movie is this incredible amazing show-stopping spectacular but the other is this first let's break down these similarities now both movies are obviously Multiverse stories set in or adjacent to the Marvel Cinematic Universe the way these stories are told are remarkably similar both movies start with a prologue where a teenage female hero is betrayed by a mentor figure that she trusts Gwen's dad tries to unmask and arrest his daughter while Defender strange tries to steal the power of America Chavez who were friends you're killing me these scenes end with a young woman escaping into the Multiverse where they meet our hero the lead character is a superhero who is feeling lonely and isolated after the events of their origin movie and after the last crossover event miles misses his spider friends and Steven abandoned a normal life with Christine so these heroes are conflicted with between their personal and private lives and this internal conflict is at the heart of the movie for Steven it's this question hey you I'm happy and for miles it's whether or not his family can accept his double life as Spider-Man also both Heroes also recently prevented a multiversal crisis with variants of Spider-Man and in that last movie the central Spider-Man hero was partially responsible for the chaos the hero Begins the movie in a social function where the work-life imbalance really shows the hero is distant from his loved ones both movies also begin with the heroes having to choose between fighting a villain or attending a personal event then the heroes encounter a being with the power to travel the Multiverse and they have a very public fight on the streets of New York City you can just say New York and then the hero meets up with a young woman who has the power to travel the Multiverse this woman is basically running away from home although America is doing so unintentionally so the hero travels the Multiverse with this woman entering a strange new universe that is vibrant and a lot of fun well Manhattan is a lot of fun but Steven just kind of flips through these universes like hammy channel surfing the two of them encounter a team of variant Heroes that are real crowd Pleasers one of these Heroes is somebody who the hero trusts Baron Carl mordo and Peter B Parker but it turns out that these heroes are secret villains who betray the hero because they are a threat to the Multiverse although both of these Heroes believe that they are acting for the greater good of the Multiverse this leads to a confrontation between the hero and all of the variants the variants are worried about the hero because he is reckless miles is an anomaly who has destabilized the Multiverse and Steven is told from our experience the greatest danger to the Multiverse it turns out is Doctor Strange oh but meanwhile there is another greater threat to the Multiverse who was kind of a secret villain who appeared in a previous movie The Spot was Bagel guy right here all right time to swing just like and early in across the spiderverse he is a total joke who we did not expect to become a real threat to the Multiverse and Wanda is a Twist villain who completely undermined her Arc in one division is that a similarity no but I haven't forgotten both spot and Wanda want to use the Multiverse for their own selfish ends but in their minds they're riding the wrongs that the Multiverse has done unto them the spot was turned into a freak and Wanda is the only version of herself who didn't get to keep her kids I just want my kids back the hero travels to a darker universe and encounters a variant of themselves that has become a villain this universe has been destroyed because of the hero's actions Sinister strange dream walk too much while miles took the spider that was intended for Prowler miles the heroes ultimately decide to break the established rules of the Multiverse to save the day strange decides to dreamwalk while miles transports himself to Universe 42 to break Canon they have each been warned that these actions could threaten the existence of entire universes but they do so any anyways and both movies end on huge Cliffhanger so Doctor Strange has two Cliffhangers and the second one sucks and detracts from the first both movies also deal with the theme of a hero seeking happiness in the Multiverse and questioning their place in the story now even though these movies are similar I think that across the spider-verse told its story better because it was focused on character first and the Multiverse second whereas Doctor Strange kind of meandered a bit in the final movie suffered these flaws are apparent in one key scene a scene that totally wasted all of the film's momentum so what scene is that the Illuminati scene appreciate your concern Stephen it's not the Scarlet Witch that we fear what do you mean the Illuminati scene was great Captain Carter Reed Richards yeah it's a fun scene the cameos are cool and stuff but it's like a scene in a movie it doesn't really work but Captain Carter all right Doug just stay with me here going into the movie I think most of us were like more excited about seeing the Illuminati than we were about seeing a doctor strange sequel It's what got people the most excited it's the part that people talked about afterwards but actually this is really just a giant record scratch on the movie and not just because it's a long scene filled with Exposition by people who are never in the same room with Benedict Cumberbatch or with each other the scene falls short because none of these people have any connection to Stephen Strange but it's fun I mean MCU crossovers are so much fun that's why I watch the movies all the time I know I know but let me explain I love MCU Crossovers and it's a huge fan of the comics like I was so excited to see Professor Rex and Reed Richards I cheered when they came on screen and Marvel knew that we were going to react this way that's why they spoiled the Illuminati in the trailers the Illuminati we'll see you now which is fine but then they kept spoiling them in the marketing Captain Carter was on the poster Professor X was in the trailer we will see what kind of doctor strange you are and because we saw all of that in the trailers we thought oh man what else are they going to be showing us this movie must have some really awesome multiversal stuff Tom Cruise's Iron Man Deadpool the TVA I made sure they did hold off showing us Ansel Mount as Black Bolt for all the fans of the ABC inhuman series and the Reed Richards fantastic of John Krasinski I'll get to that in just a little bit but like I really hate that they spoiled all of this in the trailers professor resurrect should have been a huge surprise his introduction in the movie is clearly meant to be a slow reveal first we hear the voice then we see the chair and finally the X-men theme but like look at how the characters are introduced everybody gets an Applause break Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four this reminded me of like the weird silence after Andrew Garfield's reveal in no way home so these characters are here to please fans fine I'm a fan I was pleased at first but cameos like this are a kind of sugar rush they make us happy in the moment but there's no nutritional value here to make the movie A satisfying meal like John Krasinski had been Fan cast as Reed Richards for years so to shut us up they threw him in there as Reed and thanks for that I really enjoyed it and I gotta say like I loved how they showed the telepathic lines coming from the professor's head it's a great visualization of the early Jack Kirby Comics I mean if this is how comic accurate the X-Men are going to be moving forward in the MCU then I am really excited for it but that's kind of my point these aren't characters in a movie that tells a story about people these are member berries these cameos are just there to make us cheer but they aren't that effective in adding to Steven's story compare it to like the end game portal scene which I love it's one of my all-time favorite movie scenes ever all of the characters coming back from the dead meant something because we watched them die and before that we were invested in them as characters so that scene wasn't satisfying because it was still with cameos it was satisfying because we cared about these characters whereas the Illuminati were a market trick they were fan service and that's not all bad but when I'm done you'll see how it doesn't give us the best possible movie person so far I am not on board you got you got you got Reed Richards with Professor X the Illuminati sure and the Illuminati are telling Stephen information that's important to Steven's character growth in the movie remember they tell him about their universe is strange how he wanted to go It Alone to stop Thanos so he dreamwalked and destroyed an entire universe but it would have been a lot cooler to show all of this instead of to tell it but like whatever the big takeaway is this from our experience the greatest danger to the Multiverse it turns out is Doctor Strange and then Captain Carter really hits the nail on the head we made the difficult choice because we knew what our Strange was capable of but perhaps every Doctor Strange is capable of remember Steven starts the movie by dreaming about himself trying to kill a teenager his final fight in the movie is against an evil version of himself before he literally battles inner demons so this Illuminati scene introduces us to this key inner conflict well Steven's need for control ultimately corrupt him and prevent him from ever being happy but like ask yourself was this scene the best way to convey that information like that Captain Carter line imagine if Christine had said that line or even the ancient one or anyone that Stephen had actually ever met in the past we had a sister even though the Illuminati cameos are fun this scene would have been a lot more effective if this group had been people that Stephen had some connection with like like no way home for example Peter meeting his variants is very cool and we get to check in on Toby and Andrew Garfield redeems as Gwen fail are you okay oh God that gets me every time but Peter's two and three are really in the movie because they help Peter 1 to overcome his failure to save Aunt May see they understand him they know him and Peter 1 sees something of himself and them she told me there was great power comes great responsibility they are a reflection of Peter's failures and they Inspire him to be better whereas strange has no personal connection to the Illuminati and he even mocks them be grateful Black Bolt doesn't engage you in conversation why does he have bad breath fantastic word did you guys chart in the 60s also is this really the best way to portray the Illuminati on screen for the first time in the comics the Illuminati are awesome they didn't debut until 2005 but they had been working behind the scenes since the cree scroll war in the 70s these were the leaders of all the super teams The Heavy Hitters in the universe forming a secret team behind everyone's backs and for years they manipulated events behind the scenes for years this was an idea that was so revolutionary in the comics because at retconned history and gave us a chance to see these characters work together for the first time the Illuminati made decisions that bordered on villainous like when they exiled the Hulk to space in the movie their throwaway fan service that are introduced to give information and then are disposed of so the screenwriter and director don't have to figure out what to do with them later in the film and this is it guys this is how the Illuminati are introduced in the MCU even if they wanted to use them in the main MCU Universe this is always going to be how we remember them what a starts a conversation like that I just sat down and look don't get me wrong it is a blast watching Wanda destroy these guys they had such like a self-important air about them but it's really fun watching want to dismantle them and you can tell that raymie is having fun he doesn't watch every MCU movie he doesn't give a about fan casting to Reed Richards he just wants to show us a good time it was really fun watching Wanda destroy them but then again imagine if this was Wanda killing people that strange actually cared about then the scene would have a lot of dramatic weight instead of just being a fun Gore Fest like imagine if Steven would have met a group of people who he knew who he cared about and they told him that yeah man we had to put you down like a dog and we would do it again in a heartbeat and that's why I think spider versus similar scene plays out way way better what scene is that well it's when miles finally arrives at the group of spider people he has spent the entire movie feeling alone after the spider people went home in part one and he has no one to talk to about his devil life unlike Peter 1 he has no best friend Genki actively tells him that he doesn't want to get involved and he is not a guy in the chair so Miles feels isolated he misses Gwen so when he finally meets the other spider people I mean like this is his extended family these people can relate to him it's like going to a midnight screening you know that everyone around you is a potential friend miles meets up with this girl and his mentor the gang is back together everything's coming up Milhouse this is the opposite of the Illuminati scene because miles feels a connection to his variants and the information dump also plays out much better it's done much more slowly just like Steven in Multiverse of Madness miles is slowly learning that he is the real threat to the Multiverse but like in Doctor Strange this is done through a series of monologues with a very quick visual where they like re-rendered Titan from Infinity War whereas and across the spider verse we're not just told a story we are shown a story we see Miguel having a daughter erasing a universe compare that to this you are could cause the annihilation of everyone in that reality died we don't see Stephen destroy a universe we don't see trillions of lives being extinguished we just kind of hear about them off screen it's a lot more effective when we see the horror on Miguel's face when he realizes that he killed trillions of people it makes him a relatable villain for the decisions that he makes later in the film but even before we get to that backstory Miguel slowly explains the Multiverse to the audience this Multiverse explanation is so clear and understandable it's actually what we needed from the show Loki yeah like I still don't get how there's multiple timelines like within one sacred timeline well you see it's like the strands of a rope they all tie together in different ways number one I don't care okay moving on so Miguel explains the Multiverse starting with the familiar image of a branching timeline that we saw in Loki in Quantum Mania but then he expands it to become a web of life and Destiny taking what we know and adding new information then they further relate this back to us by showing footage from previous movies it's an Easter egg it's really fun Toby Maguire there he is but it also makes the audience feel like we've been watching this story unfold four years oh it's Rick conning kind of like what the Illuminati did in the comics working behind the scenes for years exactly now you're getting it high five as we learn about Canon events we hear that miles is the disruptions of this Canon he is a threat and this is so charged on many levels a young black man being told that he is dangerous to The Establishment but worst of all miles is being told that he does not belong he has no family no community in fact he's being told that he has to sacrifice his father's life for the greater good Miguel flat out calls him an accident and then miles finds out that Gwen and Peter B knew that his dad had to die so he's actually been betrayed by people he loves now the Illuminati betrayed a variant of Stephen but like this is way different Gwen didn't betray a variant of Miles She betrayed miles hour miles the lead character of this movie well or co-lead of this movie these are not spider variants that Miles has never met before these are the people that he loved so to bring that Back to Multiverse of Madness let's just say that they didn't want to do the Illuminati they wanted to save them for like an actual MCU story so imagine this scene included variants of Wong the ancient one maybe kycilius it would have even been a fun way to bring back Michael stolbarg who's always been underused in the MCU while I was gone thank you for asking I lost both my cats and imagine this group was being led by Christine imagine these powerful people that Stephen actually cared about people whose opinions he actually trusts and then they tell him that he is too dangerous to live this would have hit so hard because it means that all of his sacrifices were for nothing the universe the Multiverse would be better off without him and on top of that he can never be happy in any reality because he can never end up with Christine his own nature is his worst enemy like miles Stephen would have learned that he doesn't belong he is an accident but then we wouldn't get to watch Raby slaughter a bunch of superheroes and just to bring it back to that the slaughter of the superheroes is fun but it does undermine the importance of the Illuminati I mean we've all seen the memes everybody knows that the smartest man in the world gave Wanda a list of black Bolt's weaknesses and fears what mouth I mean why should we care about these people or their opinions if they're so easy to take down Wanda Black Bolt could destroy you with one whisper from his mouth Black Bolt loses his mouth but then still talks Captain Marvel's Powers get sucked out of her like I said it's fun we get this I could do this all day and I actually love that Professor X was the last one in the fight I love the visualization of him and Wanda's mind but I really hope that Patrick Stewart's Professor Xavier gets a better send off than this [Music] so compare this one last time to Across the spider-verse the spider people chase is hilarious it's so much fun all the Easter eggs in there like the popsicle that I missed in our breakdown that I'm still kicking myself over but all of these Easter eggs are there for a reason they service the character you cannot randomly swap out Gwen or Peter B Parker because the actors weren't available instead of casting people who are important in Steven's life they actually cast whoever was available I'm not making this up like Daniel Craig was supposed to be in the movie but he couldn't make it Elizabeth Olsen was never actually on set with John Krasinski as she confirmed in this interview no I've never met him you were in the same movie I've never met him and like I said it's all very fun but it does not serve the character of Stephen in the same way that the spider people service miles character and before we get Rowan everyone thanks for watching our Channel and please check out our merch store where you can get this awesome Doug pointing meme shirt along with lots of other cool merch and we also have a podcast that's on all the different things in a tick tock and an insta where we make original videos that you cannot see on YouTube and because the character Stakes work so well in this movie we're excited for the next movie we want to see miles interact with more variants because we care about his journey whereas like I'm sure we're going to see strange and CLIA interact with more variants and it's going to be fun and awesome but I can't say that I really care about whether or not Steven is able to achieve happiness in his lifetime both of these movies are fun but only one of them makes me care about the people well guys what do you think how does it cross the spider verse compared to Multiverse of Madness let me know your thoughts down in the comments below or at me on Twitter and if it's your first time here please subscribe smash that Bell for alerts for screen Crush I'm Ryan Erie [Music] thank you [Music]

Channel: ScreenCrush

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Keywords: screencrush, heavy spoilers, new rockstars, spider-verse 2, spider verse 2 dr strange 2, multiverse of madness, spider-verse mcu conenctions, spider-verse post credits reaction, spider-verse whopper, spider-verse reaction, spider-verse full movie, spider-verse soundtrack, spider-verse ost, spider-verse leap of faith, spider-verse review, spider-verse song, spider-verse whats up danger, spider-verse ending, spider-verse trailer 2, spider-verse sountrack

Id: 2iPVzafTDJc

Length: 17min 50sec (1070 seconds)

Published: Mon Jun 12 2023