WHICH PRIMARCH WAS TOLD OF CHAOS? WHO DID THE EMPEROR TRUST? - PART 2

hey everyone row here today we continue our debate to find the one primark who was told the truth of the ruinous powers general spoiler warning to begin as the event we are discussing today are from across the warhammer 40k universe so you have been warned but with that said let's just jump straight in so earlier in the week we begun our search to find the one primark who was told the truth of the gods of chaos from the very beginning and if you missed part one of our conversation then definitely go back and check that one out first now just to refresh this revelation came about from the horus heresy siege of terror novel the lost and the damned and within this novel there was a conversation between the three loyal primarks rogueldorn sanguinius jagatai khan and malcador the sigilite whereupon malkador revealed to the free brothers that one of their siblings was resistant to the whispers of chaos from the very beginning and that he alone was told the truth of the ruinous powers now for this conversation we are going through each of the primarks in legion order narrowing them down into a potential shortlist of possibilities and in part one we covered the first ten legions up to ferris manus so far on my short list of possibilities i have lionel johnson lehman russ conrad kurz and ferris manus himself as always the beauty of the law is we all have our own opinions so whether disagreeing or agreeing drop your thoughts in the comments as always there's nothing better than a great debate and conversation but with all that said let's just crack on with the rest of the primarks so primark number 11 would have been one of the lost two but as in our first part i'm ruling out the lost primarks from consideration because i just don't feel we have enough evidence on them either way so that moves us on to the 12th legion and the primark angron now if only this was the angrond who was not enslaved upon the syria the man who had his mind eviscerated by the butcher's nails maybe the empathetic healer he was meant to be could have well been entrusted from the outset indeed someone with that kind of makeup and talent certainly endears you to think he'd be the complete antithesis of chaos however as it was the primark that we know angram became his mind enslaved to rage i just don't see the emperor much trusting him with anything let alone the truth of chaos then again the guy did still trust him with a legion but no in all seriousness i just don't see any way it could have remotely been agron i know him being elevated wasn't exactly his choice but with the implementation of the butcher's nails angron truly stopped being the primark he was ever supposed to be regardless of lugar's involvement you really have to think it was only a matter of time until corn came calling next up the 13th we have raboute gilliman now gilliman is a curious one immediately offhand i'd write him off as being much in the same vein as rogueldorn however if you go back to his first interactions at the outbreak of the heresy it could very easily be turned or interpreted that he did know of the ruinous powers beforehand to be perfectly clear here i do not think that gilman did or at least i don't think that was the original intention but in going back and re-reading those initial moments it is surprisingly pretty easy to use it to say he did know of the ruinous powers as we know gilman's involvement in the heresy began with his brother lorga and the word bearers betraying him at calf and this all takes place within the heresy novel no no fear as a panicking gilman contacted his brother over the vox trying to find out why his ships are firing logar revealed the truth of the heresy and horus's betrayal with a then demon forming out of his hollow appearance upon gilman's bridge after this situation is resolved including a fairly badass scene of gilman knocking word bearer heads off in space gilman then has a conversation with his head commanders essentially them trying to make heads or tail from everything that just happened now gilman and his men have a bit of an open council here with gilman going over what they know seeing no need to keep secrets given the circumstances and he states in front of his men that this creature was a warp entity with lorga and his legion having consorted with the powers of the warp so while not saying hey look there are gods of chaos within the immaterium it's also considering this very brief introduction to demons a fairly accurate statement to be making so given this reaction within minutes of horus's betrayal being revealed with nothing actually said of the ruinous powers i think very surprisingly here gilman has to go on the shortlist yes later within the unremembered empire era gilman does struggle somewhat with the fact of demons but let's remember just what we're actually looking for here we are not seeking a primark made to fight them merely one who had the ability to resist their whispers from the start and one who was told the truth of the ruinous powers so given that criteria and the reaction of gilman at the outbreak of the heresy to me he has to go on the shortlist on to the 14th son mortarion now if it wasn't for the death lord's fool i'd have him as a real contender we know his outright hatred and disdain for any powers involving the warp you would have thought that he of all his brothers would have been one who could have been told the truth from the beginning however for me there's just no way his turn to horus's side would make any sense had he known of the ruinous powers from the beginning no for me mortarion just can't be under consideration here next we have magnus the red of all the sons of the emperor there was only one who could sail the depths of the immaterium alongside their father whose power and knowledge could truly peer into this boundless realm and that was magnus it's kind of crazy to think with all the amount of time that magnus spent within the immaterium with so much of his life spent learning and researching everything about it that he would not know of the gods that dwelt within and there are hints that magnus did see the true depths of the warp however that was really in truth more of his own making despite the emperors warning him of its dangers it appears magnus didn't really comprehend just how powerful those dangers may be even bargaining away his eye in an attempt to save his sons from their mutations maybe that's in itself is the perfect showcase of why it could never have been magnus there would have simply been no way he could have resisted seeking those beings out whether through a desire to use their knowledge and power against them or to prove himself the better it undoubtedly would have led magnus down a darker path he undoubtedly knew more than his brothers as the hints and teases throughout have shown us but i think his history shows enough that it just could not have been him but ro i hear you cry magnus never turned to chaos until the very end he never betrayed the emperor in heart until the very end that absolutely shows his resistance and yes absolutely i hear you on that but again as we mentioned at the outset malcador stated all primarks are resistant to chaos there was just one trusted from the beginning a man who bargains away his eye with a being from within the immaterium for me no way that's a guy entrusted with the knowledge of the chaos gods next we have horus lupercal can we even really have a conversation about horus here i guess maybe considering he spent so long by his father's side an argument could be made that it should have been horus however we've all seen his corruption first hand he was far too easily twisted away from his father's light maybe considering horus was by his father's side from such an early time he of all his brothers simply never had to endure any of the whispers there's just no way the ruinous powers could simply reach him it's an interesting debate in itself but for now and for me there is simply no way it was horus on to the horizon lorga aurelian another fairly straightforward one for me here anyone who's read loregar's primark novel knows full well the religious zealotry that he was raised in fanaticism which he then turned upon his father the emperor i just don't see any way that lugar could have been entrusted with the notion of the ruinous powers by his father and to confirm that there's a conversation between him and magnus within the novel aurelian where lorgaar chastises magnus for not telling him of the existence of demons beforehand before revealing he has now seen the truth of chaos himself so again for me there's no way it was logger next we have vulcan now outside of horus perhaps the closest son of the emperor vulcan is and was the heart and soul of his brothers i mean could anyone here really see vulcan falling to chaos because i just couldn't even comprehend that notion this guy is just too pure there is no way any appeal of the dark gods is getting through to this guy absolutely no way i unashamedly just absolutely love me some vulcan bro hugs for everyone the strongest of all the primarks it is undoubted he is a bastion of strength in physical means and in the mental despite his legendary abilities at the forge i also think vulcan is very much in tune with the spiritual i'm not talking psychic here more the simple spirit of humanity's nature so i do think he could be one of the primocks who could comprehend it without being drawn to study it however and it isn't unfortunate however here in the novel old earth as vulcan is traveling within the web way to reach terror as he prepares to fight his way through the tide of demons one of his loyal salamanders stands before him stating not even a god could fight through that and vulcan unequivocally reaffirms there are no gods a small comment which could easily be rationalized away but for me in the face of the forces of the ruinous powers it's about as good a confirmation that we can have that vulcan wasn't told previously of their existence so for me vulcan does not make the shortlist on to the 19th primark korax now korax is a tricky one for me he had a very good relationship with his father and the emperor displayed a huge amount of trust in his son giving him the secrets of the primark project if it was just down to a matter of trust then korak would absolutely have been trusted and considering we know he's since been fighting chaos within the eye of terror for ten thousand years no less without giving in to their whispers and calls you could also say he's clearly displayed the ability to have resisted them from the very beginning i think he's a very good possibility in their initial meeting within the novel deliverance lost the emperor does reveal to korax he was taken from him by creatures of the warp ones that exist are fought rather than flesh considering the emperor tells him this within the first few minutes of their meeting it's very easy to see how this conversation could be further elaborated upon once they got back to the throne world i'll admit i do have doubts in regards to korax considering his reaction to the primarks being made of the immaterium but on the whole i think he absolutely deserves to go on the shortlist man where do you begin with alpharius the twentieth found son late in the heresy i think it's hard to see him being entrusted with the knowledge of chaos however spoiler warning for his primark novel head of the hydra possibly the secretly found first son upon the throne world itself no less well that son i could easily see being told the truth of chaos and if it were that simple i'd probably put alpharius down as the firm favorite however the big problem i have with that is his reasons for betraying the emperor personally i've always just felt alpharius turned away too easily yes he's working towards a true victory for humanity but a few words from azino and bam you turn against your father for me there's just no way that that can be a primark who was trusted with the darkest truths by their father i just think it would have indeed a little more loyalty than that it would have been brilliant if it had been him you could tie it in brilliantly to the emperor working with the alpha legion in the current 40k era and go read the novel shroud of night if you don't get that reference however for me with his betrayal even if it wasn't strictly to favor the gods of chaos i just can't buy it so for me alpharius does not make the shortlist now an amazing twist would be if maybe it was his secret twin but that's a rabbit hole we're just not going to go down today so all in all who are the contenders we have come down to well we have lionel johnson lehman russ conrad kurz ferris manus raboute gilleman and corvus corax each of these primarks to me could have been the one entrusted from the outset the one who knew the realities of chaos and the ruinous powers but we now need to narrow it down to just one so let's let the hard choices begin i'm going to begin with gilman while his reaction in no no fear could be used as a foundation showing he had previous knowledge of the ruinous powers if rogueldorn is ruled out for his mastery of the material realm that he wasn't made to be able to understand the immaterium well then i really don't see how gilliman can't be under the same light these two primarks are too similar in nature for me gilman belongs to the physical he's theoretical and practical he's going to be the first i remove from the list and next up i'm going to eliminate conrad honestly the only reason i'm doing so is because he ultimately betrayed their father and i just feel a primark who was alone entrusted with the truth would ultimately not do so so easily his gift of foresight his desire for justice it really could have all worked out pretty well but he turned traitor and so he's out now it begins to get really tough here but i'm going to take out korax next i absolutely think he was one of the emperor's most trusted sons however given his real negative reaction to the secrets of his own creation i just don't feel like everything would have been such a major shock to him if he already knew of the ruinous powers so the raven lord is out next i'm going to remove ferrous manus now this is really hard and i think maybe that's because i'd actually quite like it to be him again as i said in part one he does have a lot going for him his homeworld is the closest to the eye of terror his undeniable loyalty to the emperor and the emperor's apparent fondness for him his sheer rage when fulgrim tries to get him to betray their father it really could be ferrous so easily he really appeared to be completely uncorruptable but ultimately i just think it's more likely going to be someone else but i really do hope it turns out to be ferris it would be some great development for his character but with the gorgon out that leaves us with russ and lionel johnson before we end up i'm going to give that honorable mention to jagat i think his nature his spirit and his passion against the imperial truth for me all would have made perfect sense for hit to be him but as we know he denied it was him and i just don't take jagatai as a liar as for rus and the lion i think russ is the more suited given the implicit trust the emperor has shown in him his role is executioner the references to him having exceptions his brothers did not get it would make all the sense in the world for me for it to have been rus and i don't really want to write him out here however as i mentioned in part one when putting him on the list there is the comments he made in wolfsbane that's the emperor should of told us which really feels like russ didn't know and so that leaves us with lionel johnson now the lion has never displayed any real notion or evidence of knowing the truth of the ruinous powers all along however there's one key reason i am saying the lion over any of his brothers here and the key to that is in the malcador initial revelation he mentions that there was one primark who was resistant to the whispers of the gods from the beginning and this obviously implies that they were receiving whispers well we know the lion has been approached before in the short story the lion during his interaction with the demon kairos fate weaver the lion realizes that he has heard his voice before and kairos then confirms yes i have come to you before so this shows us that the lion has rejected offerings before it's quite interesting too as he tries to use his mind to form a mental shield against the demon's words and i've always kind of felt that this is the lion's own unique psychic power the ability to really shield and control his own mind from enemy psyches and powers as we've seen him display this trait several times so all in all with this revelation from the fate weaver caliban's proximity to the eye of terror the lion successfully growing alone fighting off chaos corrupted beasts i think the lion has the most going for him to be the one son who was blessed with the truth from the very beginning of course we may never get to know for certain it could well turn out to be another primark entirely that's my best guess with what we know the emperor entrusted lionel johnson with the truth of the ruinous powers do you agree with this conclusion or are you leaning towards another of the brothers like me would you maybe prefer it to be another one instead or do you think that it fits the lion entirely as always leave your thoughts in the comments below i love to read them huge thank you to all my subscribers your support truly means a lot to me it really does and if you're new please consider subscribing to help the channel grow and if you enjoyed this particular vid then why not drop a like on it too but with that said i am off and i'll see you all again real soon

Channel: Wolf Lord Rho

Views: 39,665

Keywords: ruinous powers, chaos gods, primarchs, emperor of mankind, corax, vulkan, lorgar, roboute guilliman, magnus the red, horus lupercal, angron, space marines, warhammer 40k

Id: 4k3PaEuDBgU

Length: 26min 16sec (1576 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 25 2022