THE WARMASTER SPEAKS TO THE LION! WHAT MESSAGE DID CURZE DELIVER?

hey everyone row here now today we are talking the chosen sun horus and the first lion l johnson as we ask the question just what was the traitor warmaster's message to his brother the lion general spoiler warning to begin as the events we are discussing today are from across the warhammer 40k universe so you have been warned but with that said let's just jump straight in so the title of war master if there's one thing that binds the brothers of lupercal and l johnson it is most definitely that no two brothers were more intertwined with that title than these two lupercal the chosen and l johnson the aggrieved considering the much spoken of rivalry of reputations between the two it's quite a surprise that there's not really any real in-depth interactions between the brothers within the law however whilst having re-read through some stories in research for another discussion i hit something that fired the imagination as we know after declaring traitor horus dispatched kers and his nightlords to tie up the dark angels across the eastern fringe preventing them from making any move enforced towards terror and regardless of your opinions of conrad it is undoubted he was extremely successful in that objective the dark angels were tied up within this campaign for years conrad would make an offer of treaty to his estranged brother a meeting face to face upon a deserted world and limiting the honor guard to only two apiece the lion accepted and this took place in the short story savage weapons by aaron demsky bowden and during this meeting kurz and the lion would leave their honor guard behind and depart for a private conversation which unfortunately and as teasingly as ever was away from our eyes however when they returned to their awaiting sons kurz finishes this conversation with the lion with an extremely intriguing line horus himself charged me to speak those words to you so just what were those words what message did the war master task conrad with delivering to the lion now obviously the scope is limitless here and this is all just going to be my opinion as always drop your thoughts in the comments below with the relationship between the two being a largely unknown one there's going to have to be a fair amount of guesswork and assumptions the lions also gone through possibly the most amount of development of any primark throughout the heresy so it's worth remembering that this is very much the early heresy lion before any of the emotional development he made during the unremembered empire series this is a lion who is very much the political game player a man who having swiftly moved against the forces of the traitors denying them access to powerful siege engines then traded them away to perturbo for his support in being the next war master and this too is very much the lion who is the outlier a brother who struggled to make any real bonds with his kin one who always kept his intentions and motives to himself and himself alone while the emperor may have well always had implicit trust in him there were many who did not and the question of his loyalties were legitimate malcolm decidulite for example was one such doubter now how well horus knew the lion is hard to judge as again there's little regarding their relationship in any real detail but and it is a big but here not in that way we do have one extremely brief but absolutely awesome moment within the novel angels of caliban now here luffa and the dark angels under his command the ones who had been dispatched back to caliban in shame had heeded horus's call and left the world to fight amongst his forces and the lion having found this out head straight to the vengeful spirit just bowls his way straight into the room staring horus down telling luffa to get his ass back to caliban before telling his brother the dark angels take commands from himself and the emperor only before just turning around and leaving and while he does this in typical lion coldness it's clear there is an anger behind his words he is extremely angry and this is why i love the lion he is just an absolute badass bowling straight on to horus's flagship and not even blinking an eye so given this moment we know enough to say their relationship most likely wasn't the best this is the kind of thing the lion would not forget despite horus being the charismatic primark that he was i find it hard to think they had anything other than the standard lion interactions even at the best of times in the novel horus rising as horus reflects on his brother's reactions to his appointment as warmaster it stated that the lion along with russ was seemingly unsurprised and horus appears to rate rogueldorn as the superior military commander we also know if there was one brother he felt who should have had the position over himself then to horus it should have been sanguineous however in the novel the unremembered empire when gilman is speaking to the lion it's his opinion that of all the brothers horus reveled being appointed over it was over the lion that he savored the most so for me while there clearly wasn't much of a fraternal relationship at least no more than expected with the lion i do think beneath it all there was some form of mutual respect horus would have known the dark angel's record he would have known the lion's prowess and i don't think there were many primarks who could have just bowled onto the vengeful spirit with an attitude pretty much disrespecting horus to his face then just turned around and left without things majorly kicking off and so to me this message the words of the war master from the mouth of kers most likely would have been some form of appeal to lionel johnson's ego lion l johnson may ultimately utter the words loyalty is its own reward at the very end of this conversation with curse no less and he may have moved against the sons of horus initially but his real motives for doing so were completely unknown to his brothers and i really think that horus would have viewed this movement as more of a prideful personal move against him being warmaster rather than a declaration of loyalty to the emperor the lion making his point of saying it should have been me i'm not saying that's right i'm just saying i could easily see horus viewing it that way especially after receiving word of the lion's trade-off to perturbo now this message could have been a straight-up ego playing appeal to the lions famed reputation and abilities possibly even something along the lines of the lion becoming horus's war master once he had claimed the position of emperor for himself however considering that one real interaction between the two we've seen i don't think horus would have been that naive i don't think for one moment he would think l johnson would bow to his commander there was a very real reason horus was the only real choice for warmaster it's easy to forget with his betrayal that he truly was the son that shone the brightest because he alone combined the military brilliance with a true boundless charisma and with that comes a great deal of intelligence quite simply horus had the perfect combination to be warmaster for all his brothers the appeal of overthrowing their tyrant father uniting them beneath his own banner was enough the ploy of them doing it together as brothers was a uniting bond however horus didn't have that love with the lion he didn't have that brotherly affection and i think horus would have been fully aware that any appeal to the lion beneath his banner would have been met with only a stone cold silence so while i most definitely think there would have been some form of words exalting the lion's brilliance his unassailable position as the first rather than trying to bring the lion beneath his banner which would have proved incredibly difficult i instead think that horus would have been a little smarter and rather than a simple play to bring l johnson on side he would have instead made a play to get him to remain neutral in that private conversation with kurz i think horus beseeched l johnson to simply not choose a side it would have been behind words exalting his brother's grandeur words claiming how he'd hate to be drawn against a brother such as him no doubt claiming that he alone was the one brother he'd always envied which who knows could have perhaps been the truth but to me i really feel that that makes the most sense that horus was too smart he would have known he couldn't get the lion on bold not through loyalty to their father but more to the fact of his rivalry as a commander his sheer disdain at not being war master himself but as always guys what do you think what do you think was the war masters message to his brother what were the words that he petitioned cursed to speak was it an appeal for the lion to join his side do you really think that horus would have felt that that would work was their relationship's brothers strong enough to bring the lion on board or like me do you feel that horus must have been smarter that he must have come up with some other idea and with that in mind did it ever truly stand a chance would the lion ever have truly stood aside as always guys leave your thoughts in the comments below i love to read them huge thank you to all my subscribers your support truly means a lot to me it really does and if you're new please consider subscribing to help the channel grow and with that said i am off and i'll see you all again real soon

Channel: Wolf Lord Rho

Views: 56,266

Keywords: night lords, dark angels, horus lupercal, lion el'jonson, konrad curze, the night haunter, primarch, warhammer 40k, space marines

Id: YNEyAEjNPaE

Length: 13min 50sec (830 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 21 2022