Voron Switch Wire Results- w\Dave From Printed Solid! - Chris's Basement

it says we are live i'm paying extra for 1080p so you're welcome folks hello everyone there's already quite a few people in chats we are back again with uh the voron switch wire so we spent uh over 14 hours building this guy uh last weekend but and i've spent pretty much all week tweaking things and being completely nitpicky about settings and uh you know where the print lands on the bed and you know all the good things we like to do but i thought it was a good idea and i talked with dave here and we'd come back um check out you know kind of the finished product from our end uh kick off a print and then talk about you know some of the things that we found during the build how we like the machine all that kind of good stuff so my buddy dave is here with me hello dave how's it going going good going good hello everyone hello chris good good so yeah um i don't you know to start in dave do you want to do like i don't know somewhat of like a recap of the product itself like like the kit like what what this act like from your point of view what you would be selling what what you receive because this is pretty much just we opened the box we built it and here's a printer so right there yeah i will give the shameless sales pitch so this is the um this is the beta of the ldo uh var on switch wire kit uh that they'll be releasing here uh fairly soon um i of course will be selling it here in the store yada yada yada you're going to see retail prices around 9.50 for the whole kit and it comes with everything um it is a little bit early in the kit so there's a few holes in the beta but they're getting that before they start shipping the kits and it literally will come with everything you need except for the 3d printed parts all right excellent uh derek came in with 25 thank you very much uh i'm glad you enjoyed these streams oh support is always appreciated uh yes they're saying dave is much louder than me all right maybe that'll help a little bit check one two i'm perfectly normal there we go that probably should be a little bit better all right so so the only real i mean so we're gonna you know in traditional uh chris's basement fashion we're gonna print some benchies um but while that goes we will we'll continue our talk here the only real struggle i have had um is some i've got some sort of firmware bug or something with uh with webcam streaming so that's really the only feature that i wasn't able to deploy in my setup but i will continue to to work that and figure out what happened it's something something in linux somewhere i'm sure um also input shaping i have not had a chance to tackle that on this machine dave have you had a chance to check it out yeah i've been playing with it uh it's got some uh interesting possibilities i haven't fine-tuned it to check it but it's it's pretty cool i think it's going to be very interesting to get going and i think that's going to be a selling point of clipper i think that's going to be a kind of clippers cornerstone in all honesty right and i've got my nifty little sensor here hooked up ready to go but i have not used it yet i i didn't want to note one thing on this dave this is the smallest allen wrench for these little screws that they gave that i've ever seen in my life i had to dig through every drawer that i had to find one that would actually fit that screw head yup uh yep that was the catch there were there were allen wrenches in the kit but man they are small um and uh the problem is the hole on the board is so small you can't put an m3 screw through it so you have to use a separate uh mount right right you have to use a separate mount to make that work all right andrew rogers came in with ten dollars thank you very much for that andrew i'm glad you all enjoy these streams so i i'm just quieting my mic up a little bit more they're still saying i'm just loud um but that's just because i have a presence but uh yeah uh my my 10 cent tour i'll do i'll do my tour first so that you can kind of see what i did to mine my ten cent tour is pretty simple um i'll go to my nice little white shot here i finished it up she has officially named tony stark i did the whole enclosure i'll be honest with you i'm probably going to take the enclosure off i kind of like it as an open frame um but i had to these grills are all open here so i had to do a little extra to mine so i put a little dimmer in there and made uh some ground effects circa 1990s you know honda civic um on it so but it worked out well and then just for uh fun since they already have the holes there i went ahead and did a two uh two mounts for spools so you know might as well keep an extra spool up there why not and on the back of the printer they make a tried to do this without tearing it up but on the back of the printer uh one of the pieces has keyway jacks in it and i put a usb one on there uh i thought about hdmi one but i just want usb that way i can plug in a web camera without having to pull the bottom off or do anything crazy about that um i'll probably go back and design some other fun little parts for it but that's kind of where that went for that one um and that was my major uh deviations from the actual uh the the videom and the build manual was those two two things a little extra light and a little usb port on the back very nice i think it uh it really did come out well um the and i stole a lot of your ideas i'm gonna just admit that right now but uh i i like the color scheme i don't think the video stream does that gold justice uh but it's a very nice contrast i love those red panels too it comes out well it does well to match with my uh steve rogers so i definitely have my little voron collection going here with the the color theme going on very nice all right so so i did pretty much the same thing that dave did i copied a lot of it because i i don't have any unique ideas i have to copy up someone else so i like your color scheme yeah other than color scheme so i was going for a monochrome scheme and i ended up with gray black and white and it's just kind of mixed everywhere i don't know if i made the right decisions on a lot of this stuff but you know what what's right and what's wrong um so let's take a look here see if i can actually find the right scene uh you don't want to see that light that's not good for you so here it is so so the i i haven't come up with a static name for this one yet uh but it's either you know a spooky printer which i kind of like spooky i think that's fine um but uh somebody during the stream also said it was prince and so and i really like the printer formerly known as prince i i think that's pretty fun but uh i did pretty much the same thing as dave here uh so i ended up with the purple frame kit and the cool l the screen that they give you of course you can change the led colors i had to make it purple um and then there's a lot of black on this so i had all the black panels but i did mix in gray and white just to kind of mix it up and of course controversial you know if we want to talk about that uh this is all petg and we will see how that goes down the road right uh but i i did end up with lights and uh the same kind of purple glow these are neopixels so i could really get fancy with you know the the g codes and stuff if i wanted to but uh kind of the same kind of thing as as dave did but there's a few things to look out for for sure and petg is going to be one of them now the enclosure i'm not really sold on the enclosure uh i think it's it's a nice option it's an easy add for a frame like this but i don't know that i will keep it on i don't for this machine i don't know that i would actually need it and i think it's pretty slick looking without it quite honestly because of the the purple frame and all of that so i'm kind of with dave on that i don't know that i'd keep the enclosure but you know it's a nice feature ad if somebody wanted one so that's that's kind of it in a nutshell i think the purple came out really well on that uh especially your your little glow light in there i was impressed by that um and yeah i think i'm just going to drop the enclosure and the only reason why is because it's really tight to the frame if you got to get in there and work on it it's going to be kind of annoying um and the the voran guys they've always had this thing with panels they try to make it as simple as possible they want everything to be as square as possible so that people at home can cut their own if they want to um so that's kind of where the design comes from but i think that's kind of where it's uh faults come from too in all honesty is that they had they were constrained by the simplicity of the enclosure but the printer is pretty beautiful looking when you take it out of the enclosure so i think we're kind of covering up a pretty thing when we put it in the box yeah i agree um i don't know so if if you were a static user and you just wanted to use one of these machines which this is one of those machines i have i have no doubt that once you get it set up it would be a word workhorse you wouldn't have to mess with it but uh like just turning it over to to work on the bottom i worry about having the enclosure on there you know uh so but again if you just if you set it and forget it you'd be fine but you know i can't leave anything alone so that's not going to work for me you'll have another extruder on there in a week i know it's right you know we'll i'll be trying to print it like you know 10 000 xl or something and it'll fly off or who knows what i'm going to do but but we'll see so uh i guess let's get lined up and uh kick off a print here i think that would be smart we'll get that going for today and then we can uh get to uh review and approve as it were i got my camera in for the pretty shot so that might show the color the gold a little bit better for people they can kind of see the gold a little bit better in that light yep excellent uh it's warming up and oh yeah the people that didn't know they actually uh with the kit where is it there you go with the kit they actually do put lighting in there with it and they have a cute little macro built in so you can turn your lights on or off so it takes a little extra minute because it kind of has to slide into the code yeah you can't you can't really see it in all of this light but i do have these leds on in here um and it you know light and 3d printing that always helps i gotta admit though i was surprised uh i i got a little surprised by their little light holder i thought that was a slick idea yeah the little fins and the slot to just slide in the led strip that's a pretty slick idea and i really think it does help direct the light yeah i i like that too that that is a really neat idea for for those um you know they could have easily just said well stick them on the acrylic with the adhesive on the back of the light and you know how that works they always fall off or whatever i mean they could have easily just pinched that in but these these parts are yeah well done on that for sure i thought that was a interesting thing i'm surprised we haven't seen more of the kind of fins directional lighting add-ons for printers everyone else tends to kind of either take straight light bars or led strips and just hide it behind extrusion or what have you so i was kind of impressed by that yep i had i had i designed my own light diffuser for a steve rogers a little v0 and i decided to only light it from one side because i only had room to put the camera on the side so it's got that and i never got around to actually putting it under control but uh yeah now we're waiting for it to warm up only reason why my lights haven't turned on is because it technically has a g-code command to turn it on and i'm in the pre-heat cycle so it's kind of locked up until it reaches temp yeah you know i get that's that that's a good a good talking point to anybody that uses rep rapper or clipper uh you're not gonna get those commands to happen simultaneously right so if you get stuck in one of these cycles um that's uh you're gonna have to wait and i've run into that like with some of the newer boards that run reprap like if you go if a lot of them have a simple lcd with a menu on it now so if you go into the menu hit preheat it's like the printer froze up but that's not the case it's just waiting for that command to finish so i i've had a lot of comments on that why doesn't it it doesn't even work after i preheat no it's it's just it needs some time it's uh yeah i mean g-code is a linear language people people miss that because we've gotten so used to the multi-threaded programming language right and you can literally see my lights just turned on as soon as the head started to move because it slid the command to turn on the lights in right after the heat cycle but before the g28 you can see it right then and there all right i uh i never got the center of my bed well calibrated so it actually uh draws my uh little uh proofs of purge line uh off the bed and just kind of dumps it that's something i definitely want to touch on um and i don't know how folks want to well let's uh transition back to this because you're going to get seasick if i do this while you're watching it i don't know how folks want to take in this content they're probably tired of seeing me uh bill brothers they're never tired i tune in every week and i don't mind seeing you you're all good comedic value uh i don't know if i stuck this camera back on autofocus or not but we'll uh take a look at this for a moment and i'm still going i still can't not mess with it let's see how that does there yep bill came in with 10 bucks thank you very much uh the coffee fun nice you'll make me raise my car always appreciate it i i don't know exactly where to begin with this but since you've mentioned bed level let's talk about that for a moment so everything that i say is based on experience and i'm not trying to kick anybody while they're down um the mark 52 bed on multiple printers i've had i probably have half a dozen of those sitting around on different machines they have a tendency to be uh inconsistent in the corners and when i say inconsistent i mean maybe a they're a little cooler and you will see it dip like it's not necessarily as far as it should be now we're talking like um two micron i mean we're not talking about it's you know it's like ender three bent which you know sorry into three uh but you if you you're very diligent with your probe map and your height map and you want to look at things and you want it as perfect as possible um on these types of beds sometimes you will see drop in the corner and i did on this machine the way that i got it the most consistent that i possibly could was i spread out my my level map to a 7x7 and i made it as large as possible and it is relatively flat i mean it's like i think it's a 0.4 plus minus all around so it's in pretty good shape but uh as nitpicky as i was about the height map being a certain way um it took me a minute to get there so dave how did yours come out or do we lost dave he's on mute hey i don't know if you can hear me or not uh so i missed your last couple of sentences there yeah i got you uh you're back now you were frozen there for a moment uh but we no just talking talking about bed level and uh how did yours go with your height map and all that good stuff so i had uh i had some issues uh but uh there are in all honesty they are the issues that you would normally get uh with uh how to put it uh that i think you normally get with the regular prusa stuff so i was pretty i was kind of ready for kind of expecting that so uh you know you get the you have to shim it and do all that stuff i spent a good you know hour and a half two hours just shimmying and correcting for it but the interesting thing i found is that uh the core xz became the problem uh for getting a perfectly level bed so i had a uh that was a different kind of adjustment than i was used to for most printers to get the level along the x-axis across the whole thing so got it worked out got it figured out but it was it was just different and new um arguably i'd say the normal prusa you know turn your uh lead screw a little bit uh is a little bit easier but then the boron adjusts the individual x and z motors until you get it level so that was my that was my catch there yeah and that's um i think that was one of the biggest you know in every one of these things that that i do i always learn something and that's the fun part but i've never done a setup like quite like this you know but and and the what is it x x z core x z is what we're calling this so basically it's core xy and you stood it up on its edge i mean you've got the state the same concept there but never really done anything with this before right so that was one of the biggest things that so i'm so used to like core xy you want the belts as close to the same length as possible and the tension to be as close as possible right so i went at this with that method like well i'm gonna get them you know exactly perfect you know in tune with each other when it really didn't play out that way uh because of the amount of tilt that it could put on one side or the other based on tension i had to kind of judge it like that rather than uh you know then going just by how i thought the belts might need to be um it so there was a little bit of playing around there but you know again i learned something new so that's always good it was fun and it was it was a different set of problems uh i mean let's listen this is the first time on a 3d printer that uh we've used a a key key chain retainer as a mechanical part uh for actual operation so that that was kind of fun that uh to see that on there and actually consider that part of the build uh if people don't know there's actually a a key what they call a key back which uh if you have your janitors out there uh they're that's the big key ring that one little string that they'll always have in our belt clips they use uh boron is using that to uh keep uh neutral tension on the uh z so it doesn't drop down on them that's kind of funny so that's why i i love it i can't complain about it i just think it's funny because that's the first time i've had to use it for this well it it's um i love see so that's like one of my favorite things about when when people build stuff the things that they grab to solve something and i would have never thought of that you know that and that's what i that that's why i always enjoy it's like how did they come up with that one right the whole key back thing it works um and it's like it was the highlight of the kit for me honestly when i saw that it was like this this is worth it right here that somebody thought to put that in there i thought that was pretty ingenious yeah i i enjoyed that um i just i i find it funny that they actually found a specific model that worked it just so happened to perfectly match the tension uh without any calibration the only thing you have to watch out for is that and i think you suffered from it um wear eye protection while you're rigging it up yes yeah yes think about uh think about how you put that on before you put it on i mean maybe consider mounting the bracket in and then pulling the string up over the top after the fact that might be the best way to go that's how i did mine and part of the ldo build is that they actually included a little stl for you to print out that keeps the cable on a little bit better the the cord on a little bit better it's a little v-groove wheel you put into the bearings and uh i i felt because i was a little iffy you know those 65 bearings don't exactly have that much of a sidewall to retain stuff right yeah that part definitely helped i thought that was very smart to them um and uh yeah never let the machines wins he's right yeah most of the time we use those keychain retentioners for uh you know keeping cables and cords out of the way on our you know cr-10s and stuff but this was part of the mechanical system i thought that was fun yeah i like it well i know and also just the keyback itself i have never seen one that size uh i don't know whose keys those are retracting but good lord uh you could you could lift 50 pounds of keys with this thing i mean it's like the size of a coffee cup that's your school janitor keychain yeah no i thought that was pretty cool so i enjoyed that um so that was the fun part of the build that was the um that's what threw me for what i'd just say is that that's when i went okay this is interesting um the other interesting things on the bill that i thought were interesting was their framing choice um and i say this because you know a lot of printers are 20 20 or 20 40. and then there's you know printers that really for some reason went towards 15 15. and this one went the other direction they went 30 30 and 30 60. so they went for a lot beefier frame but they didn't make that on any moving part um all the moving parts have 20 20 on them still so i kind of thought that was interesting so you do end up with a mix and match of extrusion where you find out on most of the other printers out there it's only one type if that makes sense yep yeah and you know the 30 30 anytime i see 30 30 i always go back to like when you know hypercube was 20 20 but then they came out with all these hybrid cube evolutions and that was their big fix right well we're going to 30 30 to make this better so anytime i see that i'm always like yeah you know that that makes a lot of sense but i do like the the bottom rails how they did it and just the fact that they used uh blind screws you know i mean to in instead of trying to t-nut everything they they just use the screw hat now we we talked about that already it you got to get the right hardware for that right i mean you got to have the exact screw that you need but it is a a it's a better method in my opinion of putting all that together now we'll say this um if you do the voron configurator and all that stuff what they do on all their printers is that blind screws are optional uh now all ldo frames are blind screw but they have options for you know the brackets and all the other different joinery options so if people hate the blind screw that's what you have but there's a reason why it's at the top of the list and it's not just alphabetical um but uh so this guy it's good if people don't like blind screw but they don't like blind screw they're wrong [Laughter] so but uh it's it's it's a good assembly system i think they did well on that yep agreed for the blind screen uh my other compliment is the electronics bay um i say this about all the borons but uh i really do like the electronics on the switch wire it's got a lot of room it's in the right place it's out of the way and it's not that unserviceable yep you know if you try and service a prusa you know an mk3 you are definitely squeezing the 3d printed cover and trying to push the cables into the hole uh and hide some stuff it can get a little bit messy uh here they have a lot of room and i will say this as a former cabling guy i do appreciate that the only way to get a serial number from the boron team even though it's a novelty thing is that you have to show your wire uh how good your wiring is so i think they take wiring pretty seriously and make access uh pretty good so it's not bad for that yeah uh those are my compliments yeah i am notorious for a wire mess i am not much into wire management if it works i'll i'll just leave it alone but this setup having all the room in the bottom there definitely made it easier um and they planned for it right and ldo did a great job of showing screenshots of how you set it up they you know the breakout board made it super handy and they show you okay if these wires are a certain length for a reason this is how you should run them and it's going to look pretty good so even i in my haste of putting things together was able to make it look somewhat neat and tidy now it's not near as nice as dave's but uh you know for me it's like immaculate so let's look we'll go with that but i do like um i do like the bottom of the housing though lots of room in there you know um and uh that's a good segue that we could probably go into because you mentioned ldo motors on that one um what's your thoughts on the manual yeah so the so the voron manual um it's pretty good but you have to know so so i compare it to the prusa manual or e3d style of doing manuals they tell you every little thing and you know it's and and i've done you know complete opposites of this too right like you you do a second kit and they just give you enough information to make it dangerous so if you compare it to something like a crucial manual it's not bad but they assume a lot of things like they mention in there they don't show you where the t-nut locations are you know uh so it should be pretty obvious but maybe not to everyone so that that was my after you get the lay of the land and you know where they're going it makes more sense but it definitely takes a moment i would say especially for somebody that you know hadn't been doing this for a long time yeah and uh yeah there is the curse because um a lot of times the documentation gets initially laid out by the person that designed the printer um and i i come from an old documentation standpoint of the person that built it or designed it should not be the one doing the documentation on it because they know too much yeah and i think that's where the voron manual missed a few things on that and this is this is kind of true across the board i see this a lot in pretty much all their manuals is that they they miss some keynotes um and it's just because they assume that uh everyone is uh you know an experienced builder um and that that's all um and i do appreciate the ldo doing their documents because they are stitching in some documents to uh make a little more understandable with their kits uh as well as kind of point people in the right direction so um they're doing a pretty good job of adding uh the documents but my biggest complaint on the uh boron switch wire manual is we were sitting there and we were building the clock work on it you know the assembly in the after burner and then i just stopped and went on to the next uh thing and skipped over almost all of the afterburner build uh without a pointer to where to go next yep and that that that's exactly that's pretty much the only part that i ran into that i did stumble because i've never put one of these together before so i had to go find another manual that had that section in it so that was kind of a it oh and it's pretty obvious somebody just missed a couple of pages right they just need to throw a couple more pages in there but yeah so that just on the switch wire alone that i struggled with out a bit yeah they uh they they missed a few parts there uh as far as the assembly and they're like wait what so and i get it because you know the the afterburner is a very popular uh add-on for all their printers but you know break out the after burner uh yeah i say break out the afterburner and make that a separate project uh that would make sense um but yeah they're they're going halfway through the clockwork and then they all of a sudden just jump over i think it was like uh page 74.05 it was right around 76 they just kind of jumped oh wait yeah it was right around 78. they just kind of just jumped over everything they completely forgot the whole bottom build the whole hot end build so little things yep um what was it yeah there were there was a few parts they skipped over there not the end of the world it was kind of it was it it off put us because both of us on air are just like oh wait they missed that uh oh you know what i know how to do this i'm good right so oh yeah it was right uh page 77 uh right before the idler install that's what it was page 77 right before the idler install they kind of missed those last couple of steps in there that threw everybody for a loop that's what it was um that was it but the ldo doc did a great job catching up on everything um [Music] yeah so uh el elliot did a great job with their documents um i did chat with uh david from lbo um [Music] about some document add-ons because you and i ran into the same problem of ldo's breakout board uh the board is very convinced so you're not quite sure where you plug in what to what and their document was missing it so they're going to put in a couple extra graphics just to make it so we don't screw it up even steve had problems with that one um so steve had a problem with that one me and him were sending back uh uh me and him were sending back notes on the breakout board i had to uh uh figure out who was what so we i've sent him pictures of my board he would send me pictures of his and then we're like oh that's where we messed up so ah but there we go um but that that i'm gonna put on is that they're kind of doing something that uh it's not part of the boron kit that's just kind of what they're doing to upgrade it to make it a little more clean yeah so but that was a big problem with the manual um i'm okay with borrowing's manual format um but i do think it does it needs more notes it experienced builders i'd probably say like a lot of people watching right now i'm seeing a lot of names in there that i would sit there and go oh they'd be fine they got it you know but i i worry about the uh the newbies if that makes sense so uh because there's a lot of people that this is not only their first build but it's their first 3d printer yeah and uh i i think there would be a good project out there for somebody to make the uh the newbie build vlog yeah um and uh yeah kind of funny they did a pretty decent job on the software but much like uh the uh you know for you know uh reprap firmware stuff um the documentation on config file is not exactly very well done either but i will tell you what uh uh i will tell you uh a catch that i ran into with my uh firmware and you ran into the exact same problem uh we both went with mainsail um on our build we uh we both went with maidsail and we got it all set up and we used their image but the image did not have the latest firmware on us or in the latest software on it and i was like sure might as well update it i'm here i haven't used the printer yet and uh it broke the config files that broke the firmware on the board it kind of it threw both you and me for a loop yep um three of us both you and me and that's not the boron guys that's not even a clipper guys that's this the mainsail uh image file was is just behind and there was no hey warning uh warning about the recent updates you're gonna have to rewrite your config file and figure stuff out and add a few lines so that took a while i i i think you and i sent our config files back and forth a few times out what was missing yeah so so it was it was working right i like i cannot remember yet i spent so many nights doing this but i can't remember what i was trying to get around but i think it was just like like the start g code or something you know prime line or whatever and then you're like well i updated here's my new config file so i was like well i'll use dave's and then i updated and everything went to hell uh and it i had flashbacks of going from reprap 2 to reprap three you know like oh god uh now now i have to start from scratch right and figure out how this stuff works and i actually went back and like okay line for line what does this do you know and they use a few different types of code in there to do some scripting and things i actually went and tried to learn how that worked um so i'm better off for it but if i was a new person to doing stuff was doing stuff like this and i didn't get on discord and have them help me out there's no way i'd get it done yep uh that was that was the tough one um and it threw a loop because i did have to go through line per line um and go through stuff i mean steve sent me his to look at uh and the defaults and stuff like that and i literally just had you know notepad plus plus opened up and i was copy and pasting from everybody everywhere until i got it the way i wanted it to be yeah so uh and clean up the file but i will say this clipper does have pretty is starting to get decent documentation i don't know if you try to look at them they actually are starting to list their commands pretty good with pretty decent descriptions and stuff yeah so the commands are are getting a lot better in clipper um i think all of the support systems around it are got to catch up to that but clipper in itself is getting caught up yeah and i wasn't i mean i haven't used clipper um a whole lot in several years um but it and i i was telling you this not too long ago but i'm just trying to squeeze another knowledge base into my head you know so now i have to remember syntax for marlin the reprap and clipper and keep them all straight but one thing i have to say once you once you kind of jump into clipper uh literal terms right yeah bed probe calibrate you know you punch that in and i and i stood back i'm like seriously that's a thing you know like i could just punch in words and it does stuff you know you know uh so i mean some of the things of clipper are actually they've made it easy which confused me you know i i thought it should have been harder than that um so i mean there was some of that too but again uh i learned a lot with this configuration so but yeah it was it was fun for that one uh because i've been playing with clipper a little bit you know since i got my uh v0 which in all honesty i love the v0 because that is your great uh i want to see what a boron like printer kits you know it's got all the same things that you would expect from any other boron so i've been playing with that one a lot at home and you're figuring stuff out um i will say this though um input shaper was kind of a a bear to get installed and get the accelerometer done um the best resource i had for that was the nero's video so that was the best video resource after that he has a little 15-minute input shaper and i was like oh there it is okay let's go um but uh i thought that that was a little bit heavier of an install than you know it could be i think that the these pieces of integration also with python expiring here not to not too distant future um so uh they might have to catch up with that one yeah but uh i haven't given you that one yet so that's gonna be interesting it's a fascinating idea i mean i'm surprised that more people have not uh integrated the accelerometer concepts um mainly because there's just so darn cheap uh you know accelerometers pennies these days for the board which if we didn't if genomin knew um ldo is also coming out with their little accelerometer uh or input shaper uh board so they're making their own board set instead of you soldering wires together they have a cute little flat ribbon cable um if you look carefully at both binance and chris's printer you can kind of see the cable hanging up the hole because they kind of have it hidden out of the way right now um but uh it's fascinating it's an interesting concept i would probably say one thing i understand about input shaper that we have to be weary of is if you're doing mechanical part printing because it does kind of round over edges to help smooth things out a little bit and if you need tight fit or you know those type of things you might run into issues yeah yeah [Music] no i think that's uh that to me that would be the main attraction for clipper um and uh you know offloading the way it works right and people people that watch this these streams don't don't exactly know you know everything about all this but people go to clipper because you're offloading the heavy intensive processing to a high-speed processor like a raspberry pi compared to uh something you know what we're used to the old 2568-bit processor on these boards so it does the lifting for you so that in turn you could print faster you can you can process the code faster but nowadays with 32-bit and all that that isn't such a big deal but in so today in my opinion the biggest thing the reason to go to clipper would be that input shaping i i think that's that's the real niche for for this type of firmware uh yeah i will say that that is definitely an anchor point for clipper it is that input shaper i would say that's definitely an anchor point for it there's there's other or uh whatever that uh that new um rabbit extruder is the mmu that that also needs that but uh those would be your two kind of driving forces for clipper in my opinion right now uh the extreme rabbit something something something yeah i'm sure nero chime in because he's been building one but uh it's like those two things are the main reason to have clipper um or i should say these are the main reasons you should take your current printer and put clipper on it um for more on builds clippers kind of the falto um but it would be fun to see enraged rabbit carrot feeder thank you that's what i was trying to remember the name of it um it's got a very logical 3d printing name yeah as you can tell the enraged rabbit carrot feeder that just makes perfect sense but uh those are the two big ones there um the that that'd be my two my big justifications for why you should overhaul your printer uh and put clipper on it yeah other than that i'd probably say stick with what she got it's it's fun now um [Music] i still want to see someone put marlin on a boron just for fun i don't know i don't know who would do that i i just want to see that just for fun uh because there's you know that we need everything out there and that'd be a good one to have uh yeah but well just just a little bit more on clipper a lot of people are going to say the config updates on the fly that that makes that makes clipper more attractive but in my in from my perspective you know we've been using reprap for years and and that that was always the attraction to reprap too like you just update the file you hit the button and you're updated it reboots in a couple of seconds you're good so yeah exactly um that's why it's hard um and i'll say this and i'm sure i'll get hate for this but there is that whole reprap versus clipper versus marlin fight that's out there and i would honestly say you know can't we all just love each other uh because in in my building i have every flavor of firmware and they all have different reasons so i find fun i like clipper for why i like clipper i like marlin for a while i like marlin and also we just have to know scott is one of the coolest guys out there so that is true there's always there's always that factor right so but yeah so exactly uh uh dominico limberty uh says it correct you know as with most things in technology use what works best for you so but yeah that's why i find it funny so yeah um i do want to say this uh i i also really like to compliment the voron guys on their individual components their 3d design individual components they really do seem to take into account 3d printing the parts you're not sitting there generating tons of supports and going nuts with the things like that you know you're not doing a lot of cleanup work you're not going nuts like you see with some other printer designs out there uh their parts are really designed to be 3d printed but every part does have subtle little things in it that kind of makes them uh very voronesque um which i like you know there's the uh the x and z motor mounts um for this are a good example of a boron-esque part the two pieces put together so you don't have to print it with supports uh the tensioner built into it um slightly overkill but very well needed right it's it's a lot of their parts are very well designed and the only complaint i have is that there's way too many little mini boron logos on all the printed parts that uh as i print my stuff if it's not done right those don't come out well and i feel guilty uh i have to reprint it to get that little logo right well and i will say you know they they are catering all this towards abs um but i printed all the parts in petg and i didn't have a problem with any of them i was curious that if i would because there are a lot of not a lot but there are some parts in here that they intend for you to screw into the plastic which i'm not a huge fan of in most scenarios um but it did work just fine with petg and all the parts so far all the parts that actually do that screw into the plastic are working seamlessly i haven't had any issues yep dominique brings it up and uh that's the first thing i always said is the belt tensioners on the v01 is quite possibly the most beautiful built tensioners ever in 3d printing i'm just going to say it now i'm just gonna say it now um it is absolutely gorgeous how they did it so i will put it there um but uh yeah it's kind of funny i like petg parts too i think it's just a little bit easier to print with abs i get it i understand people's desire for it and the strength of it um i'm kind of an asa guy but i wanted to be true and honest to the boron guys so when i make those printers it's all printed in abs and just to make everyone really uncomfortable i print them on ultimakers with 2.85 filament um just to uh break everyone's minds yeah well and people are talking about creep um are people really running these things that hot i mean seriously with this enclosure are you getting it to 60c i i can't imagine it but maybe you are i don't know so and you know with me uh wonderfully transitioning to a sales pitch about printed solid enclosures you'll notice that by default they have a ventilation on them specifically to keep the temperature down and keep it below that 60c sailing a ceiling for your petg printers and electronics and whatnot um but uh yep yeah v2 will get about that hot they'll hit the 50. they'll hit the 50s yeah uh most enclosures will hit 40 to 50 and then if you seal it and put reflective foam or something like that in there then you start hitting 60 and 70. but i think with abs you're kind of you don't really have to get that hot no i can't see a reason for that but maybe you know maybe people are doing things differently than i do but now pete can ultim beacon ultim yeah i'm all about it you know you know you want to get up there in that 70 80 range but uh i'm not seeing a lot of people buying doing pink and ultimate printing yet yeah well i mean and let's uh let's be serious about peak and ultim uh it's a dollar a gram yeah i i mean there's not a lot of folks that are doing that in their basement well you know me but that's it and i got it for 20 benji [Laughter] but yes i don't i don't see a lot of folks doing that and i i think the way that you have tackled the enclosure it's probably best for most hobbyists right you you don't want it to get because you could cause some serious problems right yep so that's why that's clearly how i designed my enclosures they were designed for uh the basic hobbyist they'll put it together and follow the instructions and they'll be fine and then if a person knows better then they can actually start modifying it to make it get to those higher temperatures and do the crazy stuff um so that's how i kind of designed it to be basic uh the other use forum why they have the weird ports on the side where it's entirely for businesses and schools just so that they can do air filtration uh and simplify that process for them right so well just just one more note on filament also um this printer was built with printed solid in mind and if you didn't know printed solid is now selling petg you can go get it on their site right now in a couple of different colors and this was all all the filament for this build was sponsored by friends solid so we appreciate that so but uh yeah that's the fun and then uh it'll be interesting to see how yours does it because my uh petg is on them btd is such a huge family of plastics and uh the petg the use that i use for uh our current you know petg is a little more on the shallow side of temperature it doesn't require 250 it'll print pretty well at 230ish so it'll be it'll be kind of fun yeah it'll be fun to see how well holds up but no i like it i think they did well for it the only thing i was uh disappointed in i mentioned it there there were two things i was disappointed in and i mentioned them during the streams i got answers for them but i'm just still gonna say i'm disappointed in them is there's no why um tensioner yeah i was disappointed by that um there are some people that already made some aftermarket wide tensioners but that was the only one i was like that should have been in there um the other thing i was disappointed by was the large amounts of tapping into plastic for you know m5 bolts that was definitely too large for me to tap into plastic it works it's just not my uh not my wheelhouse so i those those are my two biggest complaints and that would be the uh if i was the designer i would do this um comments which are always better in hindsight but that that that'd be about it for a printer kit i've had i've said worse about other ones yeah those are all valid points so um i i uh i'm gonna say uh i do appreciate the orientation of the rails i think those orient the rail orientations was actually smart compared to you know on how to handle loads and stuff like that so the z on the inside instead of just on the back i thought was really good um and the z on the other rail on the front i thought was good um one that did not like uh was how some of the components on the afterburner are mounted i did not like the probe being in the center of it it takes a lot of work to get in there to adjust the height of that probe yes uh i did not like that that that was that was frustrating i ran into the same thing and i it really doesn't give you any any you know like median uh setting to set it before you install it either yep so you're just and you just kind of have to tear the whole thing apart and put it together and tear the whole thing apart and put it together uh i i i like where it is i just don't like having to get there if that makes sense agree it's extensively pleasing and it's in the right spot in my opinion it's just i wish they had a different way part of me wants them to flip the screws around on it uh so that you can adjust it from the back because you can see the back of the screws from the back of the gantry to adjust the height of the probe so it kind of would be nice if they put that they could flip the screws around you know put a like a idler block in front of it and uh flip the bolts around so she could actually adjust it from the rear that was my uh that was my big complaint on that one and um i had a i had a clog on my afterburner because uh the default they ran the extruder motor at half power or at full power and it was creeping up really fast because the motor got extremely hot so i had to adjust the temperature down but i did have a clog and uh it took a bit of work getting it apart to get in there to get to the clog so that was the only uh those are my complaints uh on the build uh as far as the design with my complaints um so i i i ran across all of those as well not so much the extruder motor but you probably sent me my config it is screaming hot by the way you can't even put a finger on it um but uh so that i will have to adjust that on mine too but um you know they the the guy did a really good job at the beginning of showing you measurements right it's it's this many millimeters from this and that it to set up your frame but then they didn't give you any suggestions on where the x should sit uh like left and right because it it's just on t-nuts by by the way mike mentioned rolling t-nuts in these kits which i really enjoyed that uh but you can skew x left and right uh just enough and they were and it would technically hit the belt if you didn't get it just where it needed to be yep so there were some fine adjustments in there that could have used some measurements but i think it goes back to the documentation it's uh it's it's a little light but they try to make it simple but i think they made it too simple yeah and i think that's where the flaw comes in it relies a lot on us asking questions for first timers so and i'm beautiful pictures beautiful pictures yeah and i'm you know people wanting to do this as their first 3d printer i do not recommend that i would much rather see someone get something lower cost go through go through the pain points at a lower entry fee and then come to something like this but you're able to print your own parts right um i i think you're going to have a much better experience than if you had somebody print all these parts and you try to get it all together so yeah some people are mentioning my little complaint about the probe and uh yeah so you have to kind of remove the uh four screws from it or two screws from it to remove the front fan shroud and then you have to pull the whole extruder out but there's a catch you've got to make sure that the top two screws that you have with the little forks um you didn't tighten those all the way down to make sure it was nice and firm like you would think it it needs to be able to slide in and out of that uh yep dennis just mentioned it uh he just mentioned that little catch uh so you have to kind of be pre-prepared to do that um so there you go the that just you know commenting on that the part but yeah that was my complaint was getting in there yeah um and of course we can't sit here and say it's all you know sunshine and lollipops we have to say are good and are bad um yeah yeah if i didn't say what you know what was good and bad then why am i here the good thing is is that all the bad stuff we're pointing out the is really good for people that are going to build it because they can watch out for it i don't think anything we've said is bad was like a show stopper yeah so that's a good thing uh and steven's asking you about the fan uh i it's the the afterburner design yeah i'm not super familiar with it but from what i've seen it does an adequate job uh i mean it's got it the duct shaped for the part cooling um is made just so that there you can pass enough air uh through and it comes out the back cleanly so you're not you know you don't have turbulence in there it's a pretty good design i think it's more than adequate for pretty much any hot end you'd like to use i have to admit this i do find it fun that the parts cooling fan is above the heat sink fan yeah that is kind of fun that is kind of fun i enjoy that yeah you started to see that a couple years ago yeah it screws with your head a little bit when you think about it yeah um so so let's talk about something that that i so i have a question on this whole thing and it's not it's more pondering pondering this and this is a project right um so at the price point the work that you have to put in to a printer like this remember it still is a bedslinger it doing the x and z how it does probably doesn't i mean the belt might be a little bit smoother than a z-rod but most of the time that's not going to impact you that much so i always come back to why does this exist why does this print why is this printer here um i get voron i get their designs and you know a lot of their drop bed printers and you know the three-point leveling and super fast you know you you can print quickly and all that good stuff but then comes something like the switch wire which is just in a prusa class right it's still basically a prusa printer it's just done a little bit differently um i'm not saying it's bad i'm not saying i dislike it i just if if you were going to build a switch wire there's a lot of other printers that you could build to do the same kind of thing i would go with another boron design personally if i were going to pick one to build i would uh yeah i was going to say here here's my interesting thoughts on it uh when i look at the switch wire i feel like it was a a prusa a bear and a boron 2.4 all got in bed together and this is the kid they had um that's probably a good way to put it so it was kind of fun uh it's a fun build i don't think it's gonna i don't think it gives you all the advantages that you would expect with the boron but it does let you have that the boron-esque feel to your bedslinger in your room so should it be your only boron no it probably should be your second boron that's probably a good way to put it it should be your second boron it may not be your first but then there is the uh other flip side where if you uh want to look at it it could be your first war on because it gently leads you into um the the voron family he's like oh i got my prusa i got my under three i know what i'm doing i get it oh this is very similar to that but let me change a few things on it uh because by the time you get to uh i mean because you if you use uh switch wire you are doing a regular bedslinger about the you get into foreign which is a core xy stationary top with a three-point leveling um you know very similar to a lot of other stuff you've seen out there then you get into the 2.4 which is let's just throw everything out the window and reinvent the wheel from the ground up and then you get the boron or the v0 which was like let's shrink it down and make people with bat fingers feel really uncomfortable for a while um they kind of had a family progression but yeah i would say that the uh the um the switch wire is the hardest one out of the family to justify as a standalone it definitely should be as part of your uh ultimate game plan of going full war on a full full in your family yeah and and maybe that is the case you know maybe that's the steps that you take right so you have a couple of prusa style machines or whatever they might be and then you jump into uh the switch wire because you would be sorry about that eddie mosher thank you very much for the 20. uh all is well right here hopefully everything is going well for you but much appreciate it but so you're in you're still in the prusa family with this kit so you kind of know what's going on right you're not jumping into a completely different design but then you have the complication complications of you you have an increased skill level by building one of these right and it's not it's not as straightforward as something else you will learn a lot putting together one of these kids yeah i think allen's got a good way to say the switch fire is a good boron trainer there you go and it's not a bad printer to have sitting around in all honesty i mean it's a good printer um and i would say it's a good competitor to a a bear built uh prusa i'd say it's a good competitor so that's uh price-wise and uh what you actually get out of it right and and i also want to state about you know the people that are watching this and listening to me talk about it i'm not expecting anyone to defend this you know i'm not being trying to be critical uh it's just you know it's all perspective and this is your uh this is your kind of first time with boron so this is this is your intro to boron this is my third boron so far that i've built and i have uh half of a trident sitting at home that i'm building and playing with that i will get through the whole family of just because i like their build and uh the manuals are just uh shallow enough that as i'm building i will spend half my time going what the hell do they mean what is that and then you figure it out and you get that great sense of satisfaction from that but that's because that's just kind of the person i am i like to suffer while i build um so yeah but uh yeah it's and yeah dennis has got a good point uh because yeah you can switch a lot of these bedslingers in the switch wire there's a lot of people out there with uh you know convert inter threes over to this right and borrow a lot of parts from it if you look at it i mean uh you know it if you look at this machine side by side with an industry that somebody went way over the top with you know what what would you what would you do to an inner three to go to go all out right well you'd get some linear rails and you'd you know you you would you'd get removable build sheets and you know all this kind of good stuff you'd beef up the carriage and and all that so i mean i could see that i mean especially if somebody really it was because i've seen a lot of people take into threes and just spend all kinds of money on it right uh yeah i've seen people end up with 1500 under threes right right yep i get it i you know i've i've seen i've seen a lot of crazy things but you know somebody spent 30 000 you know remodeling of vega you know i mean it's just people do crazy things but um i don't know i'll tell you what's going to be interesting is uh uh a big tree tech they they put a photo out they didn't tell a lot of details but from the picture i'm going to assume i know what they're going to release and i don't know any more information about the public knows but uh it seemed like they were showing off that they were going to build a raspberry pi board with the control board already built into it yeah so that that is probably going to be your next-gen clipper board which for wiring organization simplicity of build i think that is going to be if if i'm wrong on it they should get right on and build the way i'm saying it if i'm right on it then kudos but that single board pi control board i think will make clipper a lot more uh reasonable for people to understand which i think is going to be pretty cool yeah and and that that is one thing that i would say that i appreciate about the i like the electronic setups to be as you know as straightforward as possible uh and having it all on a single board would make me happier just personally and oh yeah they just point out that my one uh my one other complaint was the two separate power supplies um meanwhile makes a really nice 24 volt 5 volt single power supply um and that would be about the only upgrade that i would do to it if i could if i was you know retroactively building out this thing just to you know reduce that part count because i think you're like me the fewer parts we have the happier will be yeah that that would be nice and i really didn't know anything about that until we were talking during the stream uh but you know he came back reclaim a little bit of real estate under there and you know you can do some trickier stuff if you want to i don't know yep uh you get that uh get rid of the logo terminals and stuff like that little things along those lines um but since the the front of the printer kind of lacked a lot of displays and you really are kind of relying on the pie to fully boot up before you even know it's on uh i like putting my leds in there just because that acts as my power led as well yeah because those are hardwired into the power supply so they're on if they're on right and the dimmer i'm not going to lie is just a potentiometer that i put on mine and i cheated um i did not 3d print a little hole insert it just so happened to perfectly fit there and uh a little bit of super glue on the board and it just stuck right to the side of the hole and it's just perfectly in the center of one of the legs patterns so i got a little lazy still looks good though it still looks good but yeah that's that's kind of fun uh yeah you asked oh is it have either of you done a build with a refreshingly low part count printerbot was really good about that with their their kids they uh they kind of went out of their way to ensure that uh all their their screws were almost all the same sizes whenever they could they were really good about that in the early days uh they were really good about what they call their back then they would call them hardware burritos yeah and they were really good about that to make the kit fairly simple to put together just because i built one and there's a kit there was a steppy kit inside the voron kit i had to print out the ldo mascot i got to show it off he's not in focus but he's the same purple ice color that we're doing the benchy in today i really i really like that that was a funny little add-on for them you know what i completely forgot i never got around to doing that one but uh if people were curious do this they included this cute little package and all that's in the package is a couple of screws and the fake motor shaft and then a keychain lanyard so that you can make this little yeah steppy print it out now we'll tell you this i i went through the full um uh serialization process on this one so they definitely made a procedure for all of this so i did go through the full serialization and i got a serial number for my switch wire build um and it does require a few interesting steps that some old folkies probably don't want to jump through those hoops because you need to have your discord and your reddit accounts uh and you have to go over to reddit post into reddit um your video of it printing uh and a few extra photos and then they'll tell you over on the discord that you're you know uh they'll tell you on the discord and read it but the the part of the reward is that you get uh introduced into some you know secret backend uh discord channels where they pretty much just share 3d printed memes all day but uh so yeah so i got to officially assign the uh i am number 291 so we're on switchwire291 they even sent you a little part for you yeah i don't think i'll be getting a serial number yeah you have to clean up your wiring for that one yeah uh that's interesting though it's it's that seems that seems very elite very very uh it's like a secret club it's a fun reward i i think um i think more open source projects would benefit from that type of feedback i know that they say i know that they say you know it kind of started because you know they did 10 original kits with serial numbers and people kept asking for them and stuff like that but i think it's a fun reward for any project if you kind of have some way to reward people for finishing yeah uh and to credit them and account them um i i think that's a really interesting idea for open source projects because we do see a lot of open source projects that just go off the rails because you know users go out there and they start developing it into a completely different thing all of a sudden you've got a 3d printer that's you know got four wheel drive for some reason right um but i think the serial number has done a really good job of keeping the voron project centralized uh in a way that it's it's growing in the right way it's not it hasn't forked off into a bunch of just you know horrible projects um it seems like it's it's really kept it under control without throwing down a hammer and just rewarding people with 3d printing memes on discord somehow magically works and i think that's one of the things that uh maybe made me somewhat hesitant to to to go towards because i got involved with the switch wire build uh because of jason over to ldo and you know if jason needs something i'm gonna do it because he's just a cool guy like that so that's how i got involved with this but i think that's why i was a little bit hesitant is because they the project is a little more strict a little more straight you know they've got their hands around it a little bit more than our traditional than stuff that i'm used to right like okay here it is now everybody piles on and makes it better right the the dog pile 3d printer effect yup uh and so it is different i mean it's it's a different i i don't know what do you want to call it culture uh different cultures yeah yeah and i think that's also i mean because you say that uh it's also why i uh this whole time we talked about it i've been so picky on manuals and i have been the whole time is voron does this really great job of kind of keeping everyone going down the singular path and being very careful about upgrades they kind of help people and guide them in the right ways and be very careful about upgrades and i think that pick on the manuals because yeah you aren't supposed to deviate too much from the build uh and if you do dvh you better darn well make sure that uh it's uh keeping up with the project type of thing so and they get to do all that without still sitting there saying you know we're open source and they're they are uh not being disrespectful of open source licensing so i will say that and that's pretty that's that's pretty rare today i see a lot of groups that are being disrespectful of open source licensing and they're doing a good job of keeping with it but they still have managed to be able to uh keep control of the path as i like to say yeah and i do find it fun that um the biggest argument that i see uh discord and facebook and all that uh that i like in the voron community is the uh printer kit arguments i love that one because uh yes there is a switch wire uh printer kit uh nightbot has been tweeting it out the printed solid will sell made by ldo um yada yada yada uh it'll be on sale soon but i like um i i like that uh there's a good culture in the born group of the self-sourcing um i really appreciate that um i i find self self sourcing one personally satisfying but two everybody and their grandmother is out there searching for the parts to best fit them i mean you'll see people spend you know ungodly amounts of money on rails and then you'll see that somebody else they'll spend three dollars on it right uh and you you get to personalize your builds that way and i i find that that's good and uh boron doesn't officially introdu uh endorse uh any single kits um but ldo uh tries really hard to make sure that they uh respect and honor all of boron's requests and thoughts and theories and they've even you know they chat with them to make sure that they get it just right but they don't officially support any kit so there you go yeah they always have to say that right it's an interesting animal i mean it is um you know just trying to look at it from from all sides uh the voron as a project you know they've been around quite a while um it's it's different on how i traditionally do things it's not it's not necessarily you know i would i don't know that it's bad or good honestly i don't have a lot of experience with it but um i you know it's i don't know it's newer more modern of a process than what i would be used to you know scrapping stuff together right so yeah it and this comes from a place uh uh you know from my station as well right it comes it comes from me showing how things work on youtube right that that's my business right so so uh that and that that's how i've always got things i learn it by just you know fake it or make it and then i'll try to show you how i hacked it together you know and i don't have having so much guidance is very new to me so i mean they do good on the guidance uh externally um but yeah i point back at the manual because that that's just me that's just i and i always the only reason i keep pointing back at the manual is because i'm the guy that gets support calls [Laughter] like i'm the guy that gives us support calls um i shouldn't say i'm the guy usually it's dustin they get support calls for support emails uh daily right so yeah um but no i i find it interesting they are definitely one of the interesting groups out there compared to other 3d printer groups um they uh and i say that because uh they are like i said they are definitely upholding open source really well it's just uh they've managed to make a culture around it and i i i'm impressed by that we can argue about that culture but i would say i'm impressed that they actually were able to make a culture around a very specific 3d printer and it's i think the culture is almost as strong as the prusa uh 3d printer right yeah and and that's what i've seen you know that personally that's what i've observed and you know you know if people have watched me for a long time they know this and they if they see me on social media i stay out of everything you know don't don't bring that to me if there's a fight because i i'm not interested uh so i i i don't get involved in those types of messes it's just not worth it um but uh again it's just um i i guess it's it's kind of refreshing in a way to see people that are this passionate about it you know but you know as well i mean when something comes to comes up and it starts getting popular then this kind of thing can happen i mean we've seen that with a couple of different designs over the years right yeah but i also do think it's smoothing out now like maybe where it's getting more of the norm now people are realizing what it's all about and uh and we're getting there we're getting there we're getting there together as a community dave that's what we're doing so two thumbs up that that that's why it's fun that's why it's funny and yeah nero says it's right every community has its bad apples and uh that's why i don't judge any community on the bad apple yeah uh you know and that's why i try to look at him as a whole um bruce has got a very interesting community um very passionate community and boron's got a very passionate community um i don't see that in a lot of i'm not going to say the other printers because somebody in chat here will all of a sudden be the very passionate person about that brand um but we'll say other brands that you sit there and you know those people aren't connected to it if that makes sense you know i came in here and said brand x was a the junk printer they'd go yeah you're right or like it's not bad but yeah you're okay sure um you know even if they were a passionate band about it and you see a lot of a lot of the other brands they would just kind of file it and go oh it's cheaper so it's better so it's good you know it's that type of thing they don't they're attached to it but uh voron and prusa definitely have passion behind their their brands which i like yeah uh and it will because it's uh the the new hot thing and i know this is a voron stream and we'll get back to boron in just a second but uh just give me two seconds or five seconds on what you think of the prusa xl uh i actually really like it um there is a lot of uh problems that they solved in that one printer and i was honest in all honesty i sit there and i go dude slow your role for uh do you like apple uh you should only have done like half those features so that on xl2 you had something to upgrade to yeah [Laughter] uh they they definitely put way too much in it uh people that argue about the price i'm gonna say nope i think the price is uh pretty much on target um for what it is i mean and since this is a you know we're talking about boron stuff here i have seen a lot of people you know immediately step up and say oh it's better and cheaper and you have to make an argument because a boron 350 by the time you're done is going to be about a two thousand dollar build right um so they are in the same category uh so the fanboys of both sides have their answers uh that's gonna be interesting uh and there's my fanboys both sides are going to have a very interesting answer what i'm going to like or what i'm going to be interested to see is how much of it prusa does allow into open source and i will be interested to see what the boron group does with this yeah uh because there's some there's some interesting tech in there that uh i bet you the boron guys could kind of throw some uh throw some of their little mixture at it and make something very interesting like the uh and i'm the extremely rabbit feeder crew whatever ercm i keep screwing up that name because it's just such a weird name uh for the multi-extruder you know they kind of re-engineered the mmu yeah um so and i mean it really seems like uh clipper is gonna load up just fine on the frusta xl so it that should be fun i'm sure that the that should uh tweet tweak some people the wrong way so it should be entertaining well you know and the value in the prusa right is the special sauce right well in the support um yes but you remember like so mark 2 and mark 3 were kind of back to back right there wasn't a whole lot of time standing we've been riding mark 3 for a while uh and you know the you can speak to the many but you know that i think that's a different conversation but so we've been riding the mark 3 this long but you remember when the mark iii came out uh and and all of the conversation that was back and forth about the features that it had and what they did to make things a little bit easier for us as a user um i was very hesitant [Laughter] uh uh supreme thank you very much for the five bucks so much appreciated uh your when how is just as good as as any printer i got um but so you but you remember when it came out like i was very hesitant to go to the mark iii because there was too much magic for me honestly it's like you mean it does what and it does this and what is senseless homing that's ridiculous you know and i wasn't bad-mouthing in any way but i was so you know i get stuck you know as a user it's like well you know it should be more difficult why are they trying to make it easy and that the xl is going to be going to do that same thing i think all over again um yeah it it it's it's going to be very interesting to see what happens when it comes out so i'm honestly i'll tell you an interesting mk3 story uh that should make any uh any prusa fans in here extremely jealous so before the mk3 came out um i was at maker faire new york i had a booth there and uh right uh about two boots down for me was uh the uh prusa booth and this was where they were going to premiere the mk3 and of course you know all of all of us little booth people we we got to get away from you know society so we have to go uh hide out back as it were for a while and uh i was hanging out there with uh joseph you know just chatting it up talking business and all that stuff and he goes come with me and so the day before anybody else knew i got to the peak at the mk3 and uh go over all those details and have joseph give me the personal tour through it um so everyone gets a little uh you get to be a little bit jealous on that one so because i i sat there and a lot of the stuff i went oh wow look at that oh that's been the three okay thermal okay you've got that fixed oh look flex plate oh that's my okay fascinating ooh powder coating fascinating you know uh you know all the little things he put in there and now we look back everybody and their grandmother's got you know magnetic flex plates with powder coating on it yep and let's not forget he was the guy that said that's what you should do so um he's it's it's i'm kudos and the xl's got a lot of those features that i just think are going to propagate through the industry real fast uh that bed heater bed i'll be honest with you i thought that was really smart because don't forget there's still technically a surface over top of that yeah and even if you use a heating pad on a you know aluminum plate you have to go fairly thick to limit the amount of warping that happens um so when you kind of take into account that they're doing these individual zones but they are accounting for the warping underneath the bed it's very smart and if you look at how they're doing it too it's very smart it's still a single pcb uh if you look at the video close enough there's one pcb with just all the slots cut for a tension relief um and then individual controllers mounted on it so it's a very smart design for that um and uh because before that don't forget uh like g create was uh one of the big guys that made a dual zone heater for their bed right yep there wasn't a lot of people doing even dual zone and for the xl to immediately jump up to nine zones that's nine right yes 16. but nine zones that's pretty smart yeah that's that's crazy stuff it also gives them an interesting thing they can do because they can actually make it power saving um over time they can actually cycle since they have a control over all they can actually cycle the power up and down for each zone so they don't have to run them all at the same time yeah it's it's going to be pretty exciting to see how all that rolls out with a firmware update they could uh dramatically reduce the amp droids the amp usage of the printers and build a print farm that maybe an entire print farm of 30 printers could still run off 120 amp circuits yep so anyway that's coming we'll uh you know we'll get to ride a another roller coaster very soon oh we can have fun with this too because you know we can uh you know praise it for now but we all know that in nine months when it finally does you know finally arrive uh and everyone starts complaining about some little issue that uh you know we didn't realize so it should be interesting yeah it's going to be a fun next year yeah just please don't make it vertical artifacting yeah yeah i could say you're so sticky about that but anyway that's that's another subject for another day but you know all in all i like those as far as this kit goes i like the kit uh the design is fun it's a good build i mean it does say take some time as you as you know um it's it's a challenge i would say i mean i i said this is this would be challenging to take on for a lot of folks it's a challenge first built yeah um but i will say this so far out of the three borons that i've built it is still the easiest yeah uh i'll i'll i'll report back after i build my two four of my tridents so yeah uh nice 3dp thank you very much for the two i'm glad you enjoy the contents um and by the way since uh we've been you know complimenting and complaining on everything there is one more little list that i have to complain on just out of fairness so i made a uh a list of complaints for ldo uh for their specific kits and i figured i'd read it out for everyone because they're addressing it but i figured i would go ahead and read it out so everyone else knows what i found wrong in the beta kit they were missing a five millimeter hex wrench um it needed a few more m325s and a few more m320 screws the vhb tape was a bit short um they needed about 500 millimeters more of the hb tape in their kits the extruder motor cable was uh too long it should only been about 100 millimeters um and the led has a little strobing effect that uh something like a smoothing capacitor needs to get fixed um that was my full list of ldo complaints for their specific kit that wasn't for unrelated um out of those six things talking with the ldo all six of them are being addressed so they'll be part of the kit so that's pretty good that's pretty good for something in beta like that that's uh that's pretty impressive i when i opened the box and started going through stuff i was pretty impressed with how things were were grouped and packaged and just how many things that they did include you know it was pretty good i was i was pretty happy with that i mean for the first shot and that's mainly because the guy making the kits and deciding the bomb for it is building the printers he's building it to make sure it's actually right so it's really hard for them to get the kit wrong yeah i wouldn't be surprised if that slight strobing effect that you and i are seeing on the led lights is quite literally a 50-60 hertz problem i would not be surprised on that at all right um and just be alienated because of that problem so i give them kudos for it yeah uh i am the best 22. thank you very much for the five that's an interesting question i don't know if it's going to read it out loud or not but uh scara scara type that's been around for a million years and you're right there's probably not a ton of info on how to build one yeah you know what i mean as much as you know especially like i remember um scott had been doing a lot of work on the marlin and scarra he did a lot of work on that and no one ever uses it so it would be an interesting project to just be like we should use it once yeah right it's not i mean scara's got a lot of problems as far as you know mechanical motion but scott did all the work he deserves at least somebody to do it once yeah if that would be that'd be a heck of a build you talk about learning some stuff yeah you learn some stuff you probably wouldn't use ever again that uh and yeah i mean it's mechanically it's surprisingly simple so build wise it should be a pretty straightforward build a very low part count should be a pretty easy build it's the software that should screw with you because there's no absolute x and y yeah right well my bench is actually looking pretty good we're getting kind of close to the to the end here i got a few strings there but nothing serious yeah we're we're getting close uh i'm at my roof and it's you know starting to draw it out it's uh almost done with this ridge and uh yeah i thought i thought it was an interesting form of kind of how we wanted you and i chatted about this beforehand was how we were going to handle the stream um because we did two full days of build last week it's a definitely longer build than you're used to with your printers and you know then having me you know build alongside of you how do we do this how do we do today's format tonight uh i like the idea that you know we kind of did the traditional you know you got to print a benchy that's how you prove a printer technically works uh that's a christino classic and then we spent the whole time while the bench is printing discussing um uh the whole spend the whole time with uh printing davinci just discussing the good the bad our opinions and kind of being frank about it and uh you know i i have to be a little bit of salesman mode but uh it gives you the chance to be kind of brutally honest with what you thought because this is your first forum as well right so i thought it was an interesting format and it's not a bad way so that you're not rushing at the end of a build to be like all right here's what i think now you and i had a good week to play with these and figure stuff out and build a long list of uh compliments and complaints right yeah and you know i agree i i was a little disappointed that we didn't get further than than we did like that for on that weekend i would have liked to you know gotten more time to get it moving around and things like that but you're right i mean it took a lot more time than i thought it would for sure i thought it would be an eight-hour build and nope we were at uh 17 hours till i got the plastic coming out the end yeah and i don't know about you but i probably spent a good other good 15 hours uh tweaking and tuning and finishing up over the week yes i i spent a lot of time this week in fact i didn't get a whole lot else done uh i spent a lot of time in the evenings this week trying to get it to work uh how i expected it to and that was everything from you know pulling it apart and adjusting the probe to setting up the firmware so that it would do you know it would prime the extruder and do the retracts and things like that that i would expect it to do to get to get a nice consistent print so there's a lot to do so yeah i mean i i was able to do a v0 in like 10 hours i think with my first v0 it was about 10 hour build 10 12 hour build i think it was so and i did that kind of straight um and that wasn't bad and i was surprised because that's a hard build i mean i will be honest it took longer to do the switch wire but the v0 is technically a harder build in my opinion still yeah it's just so darn small and it's just because that fat fingers into such a small build yeah i could definitely see how that would that could be more difficult know i can put the v0 in the switch wire [Laughter] but the only thing i say is is that or the only danger i'd say for anybody that's watching this and about to do their switch wire is uh double check your power settings on the extruder motor because yeah uh running the full power on that pancake motor is definitely going to make it way too comfortably hot uncomfortably hot i mean i got down like 0.3 for my power yeah that's that's definitely something i've got to go back in and check because mine is too hot for sure yep i ran into that problem on the uh v0 as well i had to lower my power settings quite a bit so that's something a lot of people keep forgetting about and so just something to bring up but yeah you know like you talking about wire management and things i think they did the layout on this is a they did a really nice job with the cable chains and things you know you know the cable chains have always been a battle over the years as well right yeah but what where you should use them and how you should do it and but i i like the clean look they put a lot of thought into that so that i think that's it that's a definite plus they finished the cable chain as i like to say everyone else kind of treats it as a lot of other kits treats it as their uh afterthought it really feels like they started from the cable chain and then built the hot end off of it they built the y-axis off you know it felt like they started from the cable chain so that's uh that i appreciate i mean it's a really nice cable chain wasn't well documented in the manual how to mount it i mean i had to ask you like where the heck does it mount on the z uh right i was confused so it might have two little points there sure little things like that yeah though i will mention the printed parts was a bit confusing to me because there are a lot in that if you go out to github and you pull down the the project there are a lot of printed parts out there there are some extra ones from el that the ldo kit requires that are a little bit different so and maybe that's something that i could help with and do a little bit better like okay these are all the parts that i printed you know to get the ldo kit done maybe that would be helpful to some folks uh but yeah well like if you if anyone watched those streams i had to stop and print another part during parts of it because i didn't get the right one for this kit so that is something to be aware of now we'll say this and i'm gonna i will defend that problem set because i of course ran into it too i got a lot of i printed the wrong parts but um it's because the kit still technically in development and i know ldl is working with some of the boron guys to get the final parts done so i expect the print file the print log to actually be more correct when the final version comes out you and i got the curse of some of the stuff we were printing they're just like oh here's the file it hasn't been released yet so uh print this out and use this instead because it's just for that kit yeah we had a lot of that going on so i defend that one and say i can't have a a bad opinion of that until after the final kiss released because uh that that that was very beta for us so i'm almost done here i i'm reaching the top of my chimney i might beat you by a minute yeah i think you're uh you're going to beat me just out of curiosity dave what are you slicing what slicer do you use for this i was using proofs of slicer okay so i didn't you know i didn't modify anything just straight up prusa yep that's what i did so yay i'm done and my uh as much as i love purple ice filament it's probably not the best one to show print quality on a live stream but we're gonna give it a shot anyway yeah i used uh one of my mixtapes which is pretty translucent too so like yeah it may not be my best choice either that's what we get so you can see a little bit through it yeah here all while mine's finishing up i'll put you full screen do too bad not terrible let's even see the verbiage on the back of the boat did good on the chimney decent on the overhang i got no stringing on mine but uh don't get i spent a bunch of time on pid tuning and a bunch of time on input shaper so i was trying my best to get as much of it out as possible there's a little bit of artificial ringing in the bow here and see if i can get it to actually focus a little bit there's a little bit of artificial ringing in the bow there and i think that's because i was messing up the input shaper a bit so i think that i think that was my problem there well that's um these powder coated sheets stick really well by the way uh i noticed the same type of thing on my my test sprints as well and i'm not i haven't got into diagnosing it uh let me hopefully this this focuses up i've messed up the focus on this camera somehow there we go yeah i have the same type of thing there that that same ringing um in the x so i'm gonna have to troubleshoot and see see what's causing that uh and it's been on all my benches so far i but i haven't really done any tweaking but i mean part cooling as far as consistency and all that stuff it's a nice vinci um finish is really good again the purple filament is going to make it really hard to read anything but you can see that a few artifacts here and there there's a good view of mine now let me switch back to yours there you go our friend of the benchy good ol benji the chris riley staple oh yeah but you can see it you can see a little bit of the artifacting in it and i think that's just going to require some uh input shaper and some uh reworking but uh that's not too bad uh especially for a first print so there you go there's your well i didn't even intend to do that but you got a nice shine of the purple light on the table behind it it's almost like i knew what i was doing when i set up that shot that's what we like to call art and i know that's not correct because i have no idea what i'm doing so but there you go i think we uh i think we nailed it i think that we did a uh a fair build slash um critical review uh agreed i think we did a fine job dave we should pat ourselves on the back um but really uh all in all it was a good time i mean let's just face it that's why we do this right we're doing this for fun uh i'm interested i am interested to see how i use this going forward you know because if i have to get a job done or you know i need i need to print a lot of stuff fast or something i i use prusa style printers just because they're set up ready to go you know i don't have to do anything i hit the button and they start working so i am interested to see how this fits in to my day-to-day and i'm going to try to use it that way because it's really close to the same thing right um so it should be good we'll uh we'll see and i do plan on doing some content on this you know going down the road you know you know am i am i satisfied with it how did it work out and all that stuff in the end and uh you know if i get super lucky jason will put out another voron style kit and we can do this all over again someday yeah i'd be down for that uh so has the switch wire earned a place uh um amongst the other bedslingers has it earned a place next to the logging yet i don't know we're gonna we'll have to find out i think it when i take if i take the enclosure off if i leave the enclosure on it'll have to go someplace else but if i take it off i think it would be it's a really good looking machine with that frame and everything so it might uh it might earn the spot in the row we'll see right now i'm having a good time just having flat areas where i can stack more stuff so that's that's been pretty advantageous but there you go excellent all right good shape i uh i'm glad we came back instead of kind of last time we never we didn't get a chance to actually show it printing and i'm glad we're able to come back and be like here here's actually working right yeah so i appreciate that it's never a bad time you know hanging out while you're printing benches i mean that's that's sort of my life exactly but let's be good but that that's pretty much all i had for today uh you know we just wanted to do this really quick one uh to show you know to show what we actually did this week i know i put a lot of time into it last weekend and this week i'm sure you did too so um i'm happy with the overall results and we'll see how it goes from there but uh final thoughts for you dave um i i'd say everyone should buy one from me when it does come out there you go that's my thoughts you know i got bills to pay but in all honesty i think it's i think it's a good build i think it's a good build i i don't think anyone would regret building it um over a lot of other kits so i do think it's a good build and uh i would definitely compliment the boron team on it um for what they did it's got holes just like every design does but i would definitely compliment them on it because it is a it's a good design i'm not sure where it fits in the world but it's a good design yeah agreed i i can i can echo that agreed all right well that's pretty much it thank you for everybody that joined uh thank you for the the tips and the support that's always appreciated you know that um but yeah thanks for everyone that came to all these live streams it feels like i've done 45 live streams recently and i appreciate everybody that that comes to check us out and hopefully someday we'll do this again i know uh this won't be uh dave and i's last co-live stream we'll we'll come up with something i'm sure before too long so we'll see i had fun yeah excellent so take care everybody and we will hopefully see you soon and have good holidays if i don't uh live stream before all of those happen but we'll see you never know but take care everyone

Channel: Chris Riley

Views: 3,374

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Id: q1rqsEK62KY

Length: 113min 45sec (6825 seconds)

Published: Sun Nov 21 2021