Vaush Burns Bridge w/ Contrapoints and Kat Over JK Rowling - Destiny Explains His POV

he made kind of like a throwaway dumb comment that's the part that got ultra amplified by jk rowling one of the main calling cards of turfs so trans exclusionary radical feminists is that they're upset because they feel like trans women are invalidating the woman experience and that trans women are invading women's spaces and then when women because they view trans women basically as being men that want to invade women's spaces so when trans advocates are attacking turfs and they're using misogyny we've got contra tweeting at wash fumbles into fumbles into fumbles into fumbles here bridges on bridges on bridges on fire wash almost went nuclear uh oh what happened wait what the hell you she doesn't deserve me oh i could see myself totally you know especially because maybe i wouldn't have made a misogynistic comment towards jk rowling because i might have made fun of her for being british instead is a bad basis put them in the ground white or brown and i'm in plain old town and you know you just got found i'm a pimp owner blimp elastic steak and shrimp [Music] apparently wait somebody link me the cap thread apparently out of nowhere somebody decided to come out and leak they had sexted with a bosch for some reason who who knows why they decided to leak this and then make like a 30 tweet thread about how bad he is how is that relevant it i don't know it doesn't seem like it was it just seems like this person just wanted to be madison i guess oh this was today oh wait is this like a new thread today no where find me the uh link the original twitter thread do i have to go and search for this here we go i'm only making this thread because i was mildly entertained by the encounter and wanted to share a good laugh with my audience about it yesterday voshv sent me a series of private messages saying that he really didn't appreciate the conversations i was having on my page a few days ago i made this tweet where i asked transgender women specifically if mona if misogyny even when ironic is helpful in advocating for transgender rights and as you see in this post i specifically asked for people to ignore that it was posted by vosh because for me this wasn't washed specific even though wash was the person who said it i was attempting to have a conversation about the helpfulness of this tactic why not why would you even you know that it's going to be tainted though because people that hate him are obviously going to say like particular thing right my position was it still is that misogyny even when ironic is incredibly easy to avoid when advocating for trans women especially against people who believe misogyny is the driving force for trans activism i'm not an idiot who doesn't understand humor i know that vosh was joking and i know that he wasn't serious but my position was as a prominent person advocating for transgender rights his misogyny is not helpful i'll be very transparent about my feelings about vosh since i'm constantly being pressured to express something about him or interact with him i've had this conversation before but here it goes again my impression of wash from our personal conversations is that he is very egotistical self-involved person who prioritizes views and controversies that bring him views over actually advocating effectively for the people he claims to advocate for i'm a bit older than most people who seem to be obsessively drawn to streams the idea of sitting and watching a person ramble for hours about things doesn't appeal to me personally and if you've watched my various attempts to stream it's clearly not something i'm into that said i've seen very little of his content and engaged with him very little but i predominantly see him in my feet in this context where he's utilizing sexism racism or transphobia or homophobiaism or deadbeat dadism or ironically while apparently bringing people to the left my position on him has pretty consistently been i don't get it but he's bringing people left i suppose that's a net positive but i know from our personal conversations he is a very clout driven person who truly believes i should appreciate him and the thing is without any malice in this i simply do not i'm simply not invested in him his image his rhetoric etc and when he contacted me i immediately responded telling him as much now this may sound a bit harsh but if i were in his position i'm not sure why i'd care about a smaller creator having a conversation about the things i said he very facetiously said he wanted to speak to me because he respected me the conversation we had didn't demonstrate that the first thing he said to me was that he appreciates me unlike other lefty creators and he hasn't dragged me on stream for that reason this is a viewed threat of course since i don't watch his content him dragging or not dragging me on stream really doesn't matter so i told him do it lol to my knowledge he hasn't but i kind of wanted to make this thread in case he did and folks are curious what my feelings on the matter are as you all know when i'm bored slash procrastinating i entertain really stupid conversations and to be clear this is a very stupid conversation but i was waiting for my boyfriend to get off of work so i had some free time and entertained it a bit is this a thing that girls do i'm i had a girl um dm me a couple a few months ago saying that um it was because of some [ __ ] that i tweeted she's saying that i needed a therapy and then she starts asking me like how was your childhood and so i i started like playing along was like oh you know i was you know i was kind of lonely and they're like oh and i think this girl thought that she was like therapying me for like three hours i wasn't sure um and then i think i started meaning at the end and then i think she got mad and then we was like okay it's kind of random but it seemed kind of weird who is this woman to him um apparently this is just something that vasha's sex did in the past that's it but and we only know this because she decided to leak that for some reason i don't know why as stated my issue with what he said was that he was advocating for transgender women while citing misogyny and i do not think it at all and i do not at all think that's helpful so he came up with a hypothetical to apparently prove his point i've heard he i've heard he used the same one on stream the hypothetical he had was say a black man made a rap song lol and it had misogynistic lyrics and ben shapiro decided to argue that these song lyrics made the black community to look bad would i tell the black man to change his word so that bench bear wouldn't feel that way and there's a problem of course the premise of this hypothetical and i said that but of course big brain vosh wanted to give wanted me to give him a yes or no answer was faulty hypothetical but of course i wouldn't do that and this frustrated him to explain why the premise is wrong i've always opposed misogyny and music and this idea that only black people do it so it wouldn't must so i wouldn't muster a defense of his misogynistic lyrics because he was black which was his assumption i don't know if that's a sentence a black man making music isn't him making some bold political stance for black people or black representation he's a black person creating something and is only seen as a representative of his community because of racism this black man making misogynistic music that negatively reflects in his own community is completely different from a cis man who is completely unimpacted by transphobia advocating for transgender people what he was trying to do was reference respectability politics which is a subject that came up the discussion i had about this incident in this hypothetical vosh is placing himself in the role of a transgender woman whose actions make the community look bad if vash was a transgender woman doing things that made cis people uncomfortable he would have a point but he isn't he is a cis man inserting himself into this discourse so these are not comparable examples even though it's clear from this hypothetical that he feels they are more tweets to come lots to discuss lol jesus so vash was very frustrated by the fact that i thought the premise of this hypothetical was wrong and i can only assume it's because he's used this example so many times and he thinks it's a good one this frustrated him and that's when he started calling me insecure lol dot dot or dot comma he never qualified exactly why i was insecure but would say that he thought i was insecure because of how many different ways i told him i wasn't personally invested in him not to sound like a [ __ ] but especially after this conversation i get the impression that vasha has very little life outside of his stream and the people interact with him on the street on stream i've been speaking a lot about falling in love lately my daily life mostly revolves around seeing my partner in work that's a big red flag i've spoken pretty openly about my desire to be less online and for the most part i've been doing pretty good at that i spend far more time in meat space and that's made me that's made most of the online [ __ ] seem really silly to me in comparison that's really true like i said i cannot fathom being this upset or offended by a smaller content creator speaking about me i've said it several times but i'm no longer even remotely aware of the times when i'm apparently causing controversial controversy online because i'm not nearly as online as i once was wash was obviously vosh very obviously cannot comprehend the idea that i couldn't be invested in him or obsessive about what he posts he clearly cannot imagine that the issue i have with what he said wasn't an issue with misogyny but rather an issue with him personally and that it bonkers to me and that is bonkers to me i devote most of my youtube channel to discussing misogyny and being trans of course i'm not going to be a fan of a person defending transgender people while using misogyny and it truly does not matter who said it if any of my faves decided to be misogynistic to defend me i would immediately not see them as people i trusted anymore it's really that simple misogyny sucks and for me the frustrating aspect of it is that it was completely unneeded here his first tweet was fine on its own now in his defense he did start off the conversation by saying some version of i shouldn't have said it but the insistence on the hypothetical in his entrance into my dms felt of course like a defensive misogyny and a very aggressive one at that thinking apathetically here i'm sure he's dealing with a lot of [ __ ] right now so he's probably not exactly thinking straight i saw one article on my feed that described him as a pedophile streamer that probably sucks for him but the messages he sent me were a lot one of his main points of argument was that i personally am doing more harm to the transgender community than he is he said that over and over again and i laughed each time he said it wish with such confidence to me it is so incredibly arrogant to say that he is a cis white man has the ability to tell me someone who lives with being transgender and is advocated and educated for and about transgender people for most of her life that he has a better understanding of tw's needs trans women's needs and when i said that this of course this is of course where the conversation started getting really dumb my position is not and has never been that we should always blindly believe someone just because they are a marginalized minority it's also never been that you could possibly disagree the person who's a marginalized you couldn't possibly disagree the person is a marginalized minority that would be an incredibly stupid argument but of course vosh clearly and very condescendingly believes this is what i believe so he started coming up with examples apparently jesse lee peterson believes that black people were happier during segregation and he lived through it experienced so he believes that he should listen to and verify his position because he's black that was another one of his hypotheticals when white folks talk about race like this it tickles me because it's clear they do not understand or are pretending not to understand that there will always be a diversity of opinions and perspectives in these conversations i know that black folks don't feel one way but he clearly doesn't i've spoken on my channel about how during segregation black economic power was within their own communities what this meant was that you had black folks spending money with black people and feeding it into their own communities since desegregation a lot of businesses in black neighborhoods aren't black owned and so what you have is black folks spending their money with people who go in rich communities outside the ones you're living in this is an observable issue i have oh god 13 out of 20. hold on my brain is getting worn down by this i also don't care yeah okay we can do it guys we gotta be warriors i of course do not understand what jesse lee peterson says about this but i can assume it's something along those lines and what he's saying is true but not his but his conclusion that jim crow was a-okay is not and that's the issue with some of these arguments there's a speck of truth in a lot of them and because most people aren't nearly as invested in these conversations they will not investigate them to actually hear beyond the front-facing argument so the conservative white person who loves jc lee peterson doesn't dig deeper than the stance placating to him that has a speck of truth in it and ironically the same can be said for the very conversation we're having one of the depressing conclusions i reached in the conversation i had was that misogyny is a bigger issue in the left than i imagined i had to actually have these long drawn-out debates about why maybe citing misogyny to defend trans women isn't helpful to our cause and in that conversation i spoke to more trans women than i would have imagined who were indeed defending expressions of misogyny because they felt defended by it perhaps i'm sheltered but that surprised me so that said like i said there's a speck of truth in the turf arguments that trans women and their defenders engage in misogyny the extraction and overall arguments they make is wrong but these things happen continuing more things to tweet and i will hold on to the position that vosh didn't need to be misogynistic in his defense of transgender people to jk rowling who to be clear i don't lose sleepover i like irony and i have incredibly dark sense of humor i go to a lot of comedy shows and laugh at [ __ ] up [ __ ] all the time but i do not find that sense of humor to be productive in the advocacy work i do for transgender rights i could respect very deeply that wash may indeed be an entertaining person for some people and this this sense of humor makes him a fun person to watch for some people what i don't really respect is the clear dismal dismal dismissal of my work and the gaslighting he attempted to do in my dms through our conversation he kept saying i'm really worried about you as though i was mentally unwell and my tweets demonstrated that he would also say that my actions are making things harder for the trans community and would never really say why beyond attributing criticism of him to a negative impact on trans folks and when i said no i've been doing this for most my life a lot of people have been helped by my work he would say that i was being egotistical l-o-l which is so funny to me because nothing about me saying that is untrue or unverifiable i'm naturally a very modest person but i am not and will not downplay my work nor it's impact because some white streamer bro doesn't like that i don't think he needs to be misogynistic lol part of why i'm sharing this is because i know that he likely has this idea that i'm afraid of him or would take issue with him calling me out and i can tell he didn't understand that i was laughing at him for me it just seems super and egotistically true what was that an alert for oh that was for a youtube membership nice for me it just seems super egotistical to tell a trans person they don't know what's good uh for their community unfortunately it seems like he's really living in the echo chamber of his audience and that's allowed him to see a very grandiose or see himself in a very grandiose way even if i were a fan of streamers this attitude would be one that kind of alienated me from them i enjoy humility and modesty in a fixation on the work not the brand or the image i've always stated that i am but one rather privileged transgender voice and i am looking forward to the day where my approach tactics are outdated unneeded because that would mean we progress as a society and if the things i create are unhelpful i pretty much always been open understanding why i might debate with you but my goals never to harm i talk about myself but i only do so to present a helpful message my fascination with washes tactics stems from my lack of understanding of them as a person alienated by misogyny i do not exactly understand the utilization of it in defense of me and i'm inclined to say that it isn't that it actually isn't one i spent a lot of time saying this the other day but i don't really care to be polite to transphobes i think being rude to transports is win-win but i do think it says something when you jump to bigotry in your rudeness many tweets later jesus christ he gives me the impression that he sits in his own room smelling his own farts and is very satisfied with what he's smelling it was just a lot all because i said i wasn't a fan of his ironic misogyny lol it's kind of like kanye was publicly attacking p davidson my assumption of him was that he was above this my modesty tells me that i'm a nobody why would vashti do new trends on twitter all the time even care what i'm saying but he obviously didn't was upset it was just an interaction i wasn't expecting to make me laugh lol at the end of the day if you wanted if he wants to talk [ __ ] about me on a stream i give him permission to do so for other reasons i won't gonna do here i kind of doubt that he would oh but he certainly seemed to think i would be afraid of the idea of him doing so i guess it's me playing chicken lol either way i don't care and won't be watching and don't feel the need to clip it and send it to me if he does because to me this is all very stupid and it's just much easier admitting you made a mistake lol at the end of the day this works helpful to folks i think that's amazing i'll just never understand it and i think this will be my very last conversation where i try to there's obviously no logic behind it also i will put a tag on the end of this tweet by repeating the fact that i could very easily prove all of this but would rather not share private messages that we've exchanged i don't like doing that sort of thing but i've literally no reason to make this up this is mildly entertaining to me and that's really it i'm kind of tired of people asking my opinion on him so here it is clearly stated i will add to the addendum that if he does attempt to call me out which again i don't particularly care about and i will absolutely need to prove this i will lol jeez and these are the dms haha so i'll make a confession the closest i've been been to being obsessed with voshv is the few days him and i sexed at each other a few years ago i won't share those messages though because they're personal instead here's our relevant damns i don't know why she decided to include that but all of this from the jk rowling tweet man i've been vaccinating [ __ ] why did i tweet that second part right about now [Laughter] i thought we all understood misogyny is cringe doing it ironically isn't really funny to me and i don't understand the woman should have comment from vosh or the discourse about it um i mean like you probably shouldn't have tweeted it but i think like in the overall context you kind of understand it i think the problem is that like it got hyper ultra amplified like one part of it but yeah i think basically like he made kind of like a throwaway dumb comment but like he um that that's the part that got ultra uh amplified by um jk rowling and then it's kind of i don't know if vosh understands this about trans issues or not because i don't know how much um i don't know how honestly i just don't know how much he gives a [ __ ] about transitions i don't know how much any of these [ __ ] care about any of the [ __ ] they talk about but one of the main calling cards of turfs so trans exclusionary radical feminists is that they're upset because they feel like trans women are invalidating the woman experience and that trans women are invading women's spaces and then when women because they view trans women basically as being men that want to invade women's spaces so when trans advocates are attacking turfs and they're using misogyny it kind of sort of reinforces that feeling where you're basically saying like challenge women shut the [ __ ] up and then they're seeing this as like hey cis women shut the [ __ ] up while the trans women come in and take over your [ __ ] so i don't know if like even in a vacuum vascular's comet is already like kind of on edge but with the greater context of like how turfs and the trans community clash with each other it just is kind of like a really unfortunate insult to like to to go in that direction like it would be like me getting into a fight with like the black community and then being like god i'm under attack from all sides it feels like [ __ ] planet of the apes and you're like oh [ __ ] it's just like not the best comment to make because it just happens to play into a whole bunch of like really bad external [ __ ] and you're like oh [ __ ] what have i done and then and doing the um doing the tr like women shut the [ __ ] up while having a trans argument is kind of like even if you don't mean to it's like kind of in that area you know oh we've got contra we've got contra tweeting at vosh this is maybe the longest twitter thread ever typed in one of its 16 theses is apparently that she doesn't obsessively think about me not the greatest engagement by vosh but okay but we've got fumbles into fumbles into fumbles into fumbles here i think you should think about what she's saying here instead of getting really defense about her correctly pointing out that your perspective on this is limited by your being not trans and not a woman doing edgy ironic misogyny while defending trans people magnifies the grain of truth and what turfs say about there being misogyny and trans activism maybe you tweeted jk just didn't land the way you wanted okay fine it happens but why get so defensive about reasonable criticism how many reasonable criticisms of you have you knowing what others don't thought unreasonable oh [ __ ] hold on i don't know if my brain is just drug out older let me try to read the sentence again how many reasonable criticisms of you have you knowing what others okay okay hold on we got it how many reasonable criticisms of you have you knowing what others don't thought unreasonable how many reasonable criticisms of you have you thought unreasonable how many reasonable criticisms of you have you knowing what others don't thought unreasonable jesus christ i understand it right how many reasonable criticisms of you have you thought unreasonable right and then we have like um this is a participle phrase i don't know what these are called how many reasonable criticisms of you have you knowing what others don't thought unreasonable that was the sentence okay we got it i've talked about all this before and we'll continue to and i'm happy to hear about cat or anyone else but i disagree with her here obama sorry shut the [ __ ] up i've talked about all this before and we'll continue stop okay stop i've talked about all this before and we'll continue to and i'm happy to hear out kat or anyone else but i disagree with her here and have reasons to think little of her opinions with respect the arguments you give in your videos support my position here and with all the associated contacts the site really isn't the best place to speak on it with nuance i'm extremely confident you'd agree with me if you were fully caught up um it just strikes me as off you'd extremely confident you're extremely confident you definitely know better than a trans woman who's been doing this activism for over a decade and it kind of compounds my discomfort with the women be quieter tweet is that really your argument that i by way of being cis couldn't possibly be correct in a disagreement on trans issues of the trans person it was always under the impression that you value the quality of the argument oh no oh no wash is burning wash challenge copy destiny's behaviors but amplify them in horrible ways oh no he's burning every bridge even bridges doesn't need to burn i haven't heard any arguments yet only your assurance that you're extremely confident you're correct and i don't think extreme confidence is warranted men who are extremely confident they know more than women what is and isn't misogyny don't have a great track record i wasn't capable of extreme confidence and disagreements i have with people whose lived experiences defer from mine i wouldn't be able to argue against terfs also i can't help you if you're jumping into this without knowing my arguments what do i even have to say or what do i even say to that so was id paul the new sjw have we moved on from woke so soon in before the delete the tweet was deleted are you done being mad that some trans women disagree that being misogynistic is actually an intricate strategy for being our savior i would be if i was ever mad at that nat if that was ever the argument see you don't defend the misogyny but you do defend misogyny in the service of saving the transgenders i honestly don't get it i don't know why you a person who generally avoids drama on this hell site are actively dragging me when you've admitted you have no [ __ ] idea what my arguments are you don't normally do this i respect you i'm happy to type up stuff and send into dm's no response needed because it's maddening to watch you pose as the savior of the transgenders and do edgy misogyny in the name of that and finally melt down on a trans woman who knows more about more than you about this criticizes you for it is this not what the woke's gold type said to you i'm not trying to be anyone's savior i'm a guy with arguments which you've admitted you're unaware of and still somehow you have strong opinions on them i'll continue to believe what i believe until pose a better argument damn we've got bridges on bridges on bridges on fire uh-oh contra liked this tweet uh-oh uh-oh all right thank you guys keep it up though okay all right thank you guys keep it up though okay complacent the more of you are in the replies being like that's not what's happening right here like this is necessary okay publicly shame her into changing her mind on this why do people care have i ever done this before this has got to be so cringy like okay guys we gotta go on twitter i need to see you guys showing up in the replies okay we gotta if enough of you pose and whenever you post the replies we can get him we got a ratio like it's so [ __ ] cringe there is only one time there is only one time and one time only when you should be calling your fan base to go to twitter okay do you still not know what clocks are obama true destiny was finally saying that ellen degenerate was your sock account meanwhile here's a screenshot of him streaming on twitch literally an hour later he's so mad about this what [ __ ] clock was so i said do you seriously not know what a clock is i'm just like tweeting random [ __ ] i'm okay what [ __ ] clock was in my iro stream and what is relevant about it go ahead become a coping schizophrenic to deny the plain fact that you got blown the [ __ ] out personally personally bonnell and it's just the beginning oh [ __ ] why wasn't he there when i showed up damn how many tweets did he make i said oh sorry were you down between vosh and kat you're good watch this argument i don't think cat or contra look good after those dms wash almost went nuclear uh oh what happened wait what the hell you off this site and into i don't want to bring up the substance abuse oh no watches [Laughter] off this site and damn wait why she does type slow what the [ __ ] move you off this site and into i don't want to bring up the subs damn you won't get vosh's argument if you don't read the damns that's the equivalent of like you don't understand jordan peterson if you don't watch a seven hour video bro i don't know if i want to read 60 pages you could react to his stream about it okay where is his stream about that does he have a stream where he reads the dms oh my god didn't do anything to warrant this level oh my god drama meme stream also apparently some people have actually unsub devosh and anger and rage over the drama too his subreddit they got upset about it oh no oh let's watch this real quick and then we'll listen to vaush when you're getting bite on the scuff podcast i don't think i'm big enough to get biden on i probably get like obama or maybe trump but actually unironically maybe trump if the right person reads right you know he's pretty desperate for attention right now because he went on those one dudes podcast good afternoon good afternoon sir i want to begin by thanking president zielinski for his passionate message this morning i listened to it in a private residence and uh he was convincing then okay significant speech he speaks for people who have shown remarkable courage and strength in the face of brutal aggression okay courage and strength that's inspired not only your ukrainians but the entire world putin is inflicting appalling appalling devastation and horror on ukraine bombing apartment buildings maternity wards hospitals i mean it's it's god awful i was speaking about this with our our our commander behind here general milley i mean it's just as amazing yesterday we saw reports that russian forces were holding hundreds of doctors and faces hostage in the largest hospital in mario pool these are atrocities they're an outrage to the world the world so marriot um hold on okay remember what was our first rule about political geopolitical affairs anybody remember it yeah always find things on maps just good to know where things are on maps okay mariopol is over here see it way over here just good to know i believe that mario paul has been one of the hardest hit cities so far where russia has been i don't know if they're indiscriminately like shooting at buildings but i'm pretty sure it's been um pretty [ __ ] um that guy was sleeping these guys are awake okay i'll read this uh ap story real quick okay mario paul ukraine the bodies of the children all lie here dumped into this narrow trench um as they're sleeping hastily dug into the frozen earth of mario paul to the constant drum beat of shelling there's 18 month old kirill who shrapnel wound to the head proved too much for his little toddler's body their 16 year old ilya whose legs were blown up in an explosion during a soccer game at a school field i'm trying to think this seems pretty crazy like good luck at school today kids like remember if the bombs are too close like go downstairs damn they're really just going to school that seems some that seems pretty insane to me um but there's the girl no older than six who were the pajamas with cartoon unicorns among the first of mario paul's uh mario paul's children to die from a russian shell they are stacked together with dozens of others in this mass grave on the outskirts of the city a man covered in a bright blue tarp weighed down by stones at the crumbling curb a woman wrapped in a red and gold bed sheet her legs neatly bound to the ankles with a scrap of white fabric workers toss the bodies in as fast as they can because the less time they spend in the open the better their chances their own chances of survival the only thing i want is for this to be finished right raged worker raged ragged is it ragged worker voladimir bikowski pulling crinkling black body bags from a truck damn them all those people who started this okay these children are live uh okay i don't know if twitch will get mad if we actually look at real [ __ ] news those were just shoes guys don't worry okay more bodies will come from streets where they are everywhere and from the hospital basement where adults and children are laid out awaiting someone to pick them up the youngest still has an umbilical strum stump attached each airstrike and shell that relentlessly pounds mario paul about one a minute at times drives home the curse of a geography that has put the city squarely in the path of russia's domination of ukraine this set this southern seaport of 430 000 has become a symbol of russian president vladimir putin's drive to crush democratic ukraine but also the fierce resistance on the ground in the nearly three weeks since russia's war began two ap journalists have been the only international media president in mario paul chronicling its fall into chaos and despair the city is now encircled by russian soldiers who are slowly squeezing the life out of it one blast at a time several appeals for humanitarian corridors to evacuate civilians went unheeded until ukrainian officials said wednesday that about 30 000 people had fled in convoys of cars air strikes and shells have hit the maternity hospital the fire department homes a church a field outside of school a field outside of school for the estimated hundreds of thousands who remain there is quite simply nowhere to go the surrounding roads are mined the ports and the port blocked food is running out and the russians have stopped humanitarian attempts to bring it in electricity is mostly gone the water is sparse with residents melting snow to drink some parents have even left their newborns to the hospital perhaps hoping to give them a chance at life in the one place with decent electricity and water people burn scraps of furniture and makeshift grills to warm their hands in the freezing cold and cook what little food is uh what little food there still is cool weather i wonder what the temperature is like how cold is it in this place so pretty cold it's like below freezing most nights death is everywhere local officials have tallied more than 2 500 deaths in the siege but many bodies can't be counted because of the endless shelling they have told families to leave their dead bodies in the streets because it's too dangerous to hold funerals many of the deaths documented by the associated press were children and mothers despite russia's claims that civilians haven't been attacked um i don't know if it's going to show like a body even if it's covered i don't know if twitch gets mad at it [Music] oh dead people and stuff marina yachts iatsko cries over the body of her 18 month old son jesus residents gather in a bomb shelter this looks like footage from like fallout jeez body of a civilian lies covered in tarp on the street people rush to the scene of a hospital attack bodies are buried in a mass grave a woman is evacuated from a collapsed building russian tank shell hits a residential block [Music] oh jeez you can just see like uh basically blowing up the side of an apartment building [Music] they have a clear order to hold mario paul hostage to mock it to constantly bomb and shell it ukrainian president um voladimir zielinski said on march 10th um march 10th six days ago wait i wonder what the date of this article is let me check real quick this was posted one hour ago okay just weeks ago mario paul's future seemed much brighter if geography drives the city's destiny mario pole was on the path to success with its thriving iron and steel plants a deep water port and high global demand for both even the dark weeks of 2014 when the city nearly fell to russia back separatists and vicious street battles were fading into memory of geography oh sorry mario paul is strategically important for russia as it links separatist donbass regents in the east with the western russian-controlled crimea mario paul has been without food supplies water power or heat for more than a week the shelling and shooting is relentless is all of the is all of the water here controlled by russian um by like russian the russian navy right now is that the case that nothing can get like in through this area at this point yes when this says it links um russian-controlled crimea no russia just controlled this or are they they're probably just including the current russian advance up through here i'm not even going to try to pronounce this [ __ ] but the ukrainian navy was basically just one frigate that was in for repairs okay they're including the occupied territory yeah yeah because you can see the area version of answer and so the first few days of the invasion had a perverse familiarity for many residents about 100 000 people left at the time at that time while they still could according to sir he or love the deputy mayor but most stayed put figuring they could wait out whatever came next or eventually make their way west like so many others i felt more fear in 2014 i don't feel the same panic now anna uh effiemuva said as she shopped for supplies in a market on february 24th there is no panic there's nowhere to run where can we run that same day ukrainian military radar and airfield were among the first targets of russian artillery shelling and airstrikes could and did come at any moment and people spent most of their time in shelters life was hardly normal but it was livable by february 27th that started to change as an ambulance raced into a city hospital carrying a small motionless girl not yet six her brown hair was pulled back off her pale face with a rubber band and her pajama pants were bloodied by russian shelling her wounded father came with her his head bandaged her mother stood outside the ambulance weeping as the doctors and nurses huddled around her one gave her an injection another shocked with a defibrillator doctor in blue scrubs pumping oxygen into her looked straight into the camera of an ap journalist allowed inside and cursed show this to putin he stormed with expletive laced fury the eyes of this child and crying doctors they couldn't save her doctors cover their tiny body with her doctors covered the tiny body with her pink striped jacket and gently closed her eyes she now rests in the mass grave um hold on there's too many pictures and um the same geography that's for so long worked in mario paul's favor had turned against it the city stands squarely between regions controlled by the russian-backed separatists about 10 kilometers to the east at the closest point and the crimean peninsula annexed by russia in 2014 the capture of mariopol would give the russians a clear land corridor all the way through controlling the sea of azov as february ended the siege began ignoring the danger or restless or perhaps just feeling invincible as teenagers do a group of boys met up a few days later on march 2nd to play soccer on a pitch outside of school a bomb exploded and the blast tore through illya's legs the odds were against him and increasingly against the city the electricity went out yet again as did most mobile networks without communications medics had to guess which hospitals could still handle the wounded and which roads could still be navigated to reach them ilia couldn't be saved his father sir he dropped down hugged his dead boy's head and wailed out his grief more pictures of stuff going on on march 4th it was yet another child in the emergency room carrill the toddler struck in the head by shrapnel his mother and stepfather bundled him in a blanket they hoped for the best and they endured the worst why why why his sobbing mother marina yatsko asked in the hospital hallway as medical workers looked on helplessly she tenderly unwrapped the blanket around her lifeless child to kiss him and inhaled his scent one last time her dark hair falling over him that was the day the darkness settled in for good a blackout in both power and knowledge ukrainian television and radio were cut and car stereos became the only link to the outside world they played russian news describing a world that couldn't be further from the reality in mario poll as it sunk in there was truly no escape the mood of the city changed it didn't take long for grocery store shelves to empty mario paul's residents cowered by night in underground shelters and emerged by day to grab what they could before scurrying underground again more pictures of injured people on march 6th in the way of desperate people everywhere they turned on each other on one street lined with darkened stores people smashed windows pried open metal shutter shutters and grabbed what they could a man who had broken into a store found himself face to face with a furious shopkeeper caught red-handed with a child's rubber ball you bastard you stole that ball now put the ball back why did you even come here she demanded shame written on his face he tossed the ball into a corner and fled nearby a soldier emerged from another looted store on the verge of tears people please be united this is your home why are you smashing windows why are you stealing from your shops he pleaded his voice breaking yet another attempt to negotiate an evacuation failed a crowd formed at one of the roads leading away from the city but a police officer blocked their path everything is mined the ways out of town are being shelled he told them trust me i have family at home and i'm worried about them unfortunately the maximum security for all of us is to be inside the city underground and in the shelters and that's where goma jana could be found that night weeping beside an oil lamp that threw light but not enough heat to take the chill off the basement room she wore a scarf and a cherry turquoise snowflake sweater as she roughly rubbed the tears from her face one side at a time behind her beyond the small halo of light a small group of women and children crouched in the darkness trembling at the explosions above i want my home i want my job i'm so sad about people and about the city the children she sobbed this agony fits in with putin's goals the siege is a military tactic popularized in medieval times and designed to crush a population through starvation and violence allowing an attacking force to spare its own soldiers the cost of entering a hostile city instead civilians are the ones left to die slowly and painfully putin has refined the tactic during his years in power first in the chechen city of grozny in 2000 and then in the syrian city of aleppo in 2016 he reduced both to ruins it epitomizes russian warfare what we see now in terms of the siege said matthew bolligue a researcher for chatham house's russia program chatham house or catholic house uh more pictures that i can't really show sorry chatham chatham chatham house by march 9th so one week ago the sound of russian fighter jets in mario pole was enough was enough to send people screaming for cover anything to avoid the airstrikes they knew would follow even if they didn't know where the jets rumbled across the sky this time decimating the maternity hospital they left a crater two stories deep in the courtyard rescuers rushed a pregnant woman through the rubble and light snow as she as she stroked her bloodied belly face blanched and head lulling listlessly to the side her baby was dying inside her she knew what the medic said kill me now she screamed as they struggled to save her life in another hospital even closer to the front line the baby was born dead a half hour later the mother died too the doctors had no time to learn either of their names another pregnant woman mariana vishgerskia was waiting to give birth at the maternity hospital when the strike hit her brown cheek blooded she clutched her belongings in a plastic bag and navigated the debris strewn stairs in polkadot pajamas outside the ruined hospital she stared motionless with wide blue eyes of the crackling flames vish gurskaya i don't know but um delivered her child the next day to the sound of shellfire baby veronica drew her first breath on march 10th the two women one dead and one another have since become a symbol of their blackened burning hometown facing worldwide condemnation russian officials claimed that the maternity hospital had been taken over by far-right ukrainian forces to use as a base and emptied of patients and nurses in two tweets the russian embassy in london posted side-by-side images of associated press photos with the word fake over them in red text they claimed that the maternity hospital had long been out of operation and that visgerskia was an actress playing a role twitter has since removed the tweets saying they violated its rules the ap reporters in mario poll who documented the attack in videos and photos saw nothing to indicate the hospital's use as anything other than a hospital there is also nothing to suggest vishgirsky um vish gurskaya a ukrainian beauty blogger for mario pole was anything but a patient veronica's birth attests to the pregnancy that her mother carefully documented on instagram including one post in which she is wearing a poke the polka dot pajamas two days after veronica was born four russian tanks emblazoned with the letter z took up positions near the hospital where she and the mothers were recovering an ap journalist was among a group of medical workers who came under sniper fire with one hit in the hip the window was rattled and the hallways were lined with people with nowhere to go anastasia irosheva wept and trembled as she held a sleeping child shelling had just killed her other child as well as her brother's child and hiroshiva's scalp was encrusted with blood i don't know where to run she cried out her anguish growling with every saab who will bring back our children who by early this week russian forces has seats had seized control of the building entirely trapping medics and patients inside and using it as a base according to a doctor there and local officials orlov the deputy mayor predicted worse is soon to come most of the city remains trapped our defenders will defend to the last bullet he said but people are dying without water and food and i think in the next several days we'll count hundreds and thousands of deaths um [ __ ] okay anyway just you have an idea of some of what's starting to go on now in ukraine as the initial russian advance seemed to be less effective than they'd hoped these are atrocities they're an outrage to the world the world is united in our support for ukraine and our determination to make putin pay a very heavy price america is leading this effort together with our allies and partners providing enormous levels of security and humanitarian assistance that we're adding to today and we're going to continue to do more in the days and weeks ahead we're crippling putin's economy with punishing sanctions that's going to only grow more painful over time with the entire nato and eu behind us and many other countries what's at stake here are the principles that the united states and the united nations and across the world stand for it's about freedom it's about the right of people to determine their own future it's about making sure ukraine never will never be a victory for putin no matter what advances he makes on the battlefield the american people are answering president zielinski's call for more help more weapons destiny watch for sama is a brilliant documentary about a couple journalist wife and doctor husband who lived through the siege of aleppo there's some incredible footage it's the only time i've seen an audience in a cinema audibly hold their breath wow thanks it's so more tools to fight russian aggression and that's what we're doing in fact we started our assistance ukraine before this war began as they started to do exercises keep hating your life then working class andy okay starting in march of last year we took the threat of putin invading very seriously and we acted on it we sent ukraine more security assistance last year 650 million dollars in weapons including anti-air and anti-armor equipment before the invasion more than we had ever provided before so when the invasion began they already had in their hands the kinds of weapons that needed to counter russian advances and once the war started we immediately rushed 350 million in additional aid to further address their needs hundreds of anti-air systems thousands of anti-tank weapons transport helicopters arm patrol i wonder if lefties will develop a better understanding of what things like mass graves and genocide are vehicles radar systems that help track incoming artillery and unmanned drones secure communications equipment and tactical gear satellite imagery didn't say simon says okay i have to mute these while we're listening to serious stuff these are too much why is the donoson playing after the donation now what i feel like i might should i switch to stream elements stream elements back end looks like the same cluster [ __ ] of [ __ ] though god damn get your own [ __ ] written i thought about having kate because he's offered to do but i don't know if it's worth it jesus sorry okay it's capacity and it's clearly helped ukraine inflict dramatic losses on russian forces on saturday my administration authorized another 200 million dollars to keep a steady flow of weapons and ammunition moving to ukraine now i'm once again using my presidential authority to activate activate an additional security assistance to continue to help ukraine fend off russia's assault an additional 800 million dollars in assistance that brings the total of new u.s security assistance to ukraine to 1 billion dollars just this week these are the large these are direct transfers of equipment from our department of defense to the ukraine military to help them as they fight against this invasion and i thank the congress for appropriating these funds this new package on its own is going to provide unprecedented assistance to ukraine this is like i think this is kind of a darker or more like i don't know what you'd call this machiavellian way of looking at this but if um there's i feel like there are so many political implications if ukraine manages to resist russia um one i think i think it would help bite it a lot i feel like in the next election season um two i feel like america's position on the world stage looks pretty good considering america is kind of like cheerlead and actually led kind of like the effort of coordinating sanctions and assistance um against russia and then to ukraine and then three the thing that i'm still the most curious about is i'm so curious what happens to russia or putin if they fail in their excursion here it includes 800 anti-aircraft systems to make sure the ukrainian military can continue to can continue to stop the planes and helicopters that have been attacking their people and to defend their ukrainian airspace and at the request of president zlinski we have identified and are helping ukraine acquire additional longer-range anti-aircraft systems and the munitions for those systems our new assistance package also includes 9 000 anti-armor systems these are portable high high accurate high accurately high accuracy shoulder mounted missiles that the ukrainian forces have been using with great effect to destroy invading tanks and armored vehicles it will include 7 000 small arms machine guns shotguns grenade launchers to equip the ukrainians including the brave women and men who are defending their cities as civilians and they're on the countryside as well and we're and we and as well as the ammunition artillery and mortar rounds to go with small arms 20 there was speculation that putin could save face by saying mission successful by destroying ukraine's military but i don't think it'd be enough for him i don't think that what that like that the russian army could return back like driving whatever's left you know back to the motherland back through belarus like half their ship blown up like well we got rid of the nazis guys like we did it i don't know man it feels like uh it just it feels like he galvanized the rest of the world so much against him like i don't think that like all of nato has ever been as energized um or like all of the western world has ever been as united against like a common enemy as in my lifetime like even in the like damn even when you've pulled like france on board and germany too with [ __ ] like this it just feels like you [ __ ] up so bad you [ __ ] up so bad jesus like politically even switzerland no one gives a [ __ ] about switzerland okay you go to switzerland to hide your money otherwise it's an irrelevant dog [ __ ] [ __ ] country nobody cares about you okay france is a big deal france historically it's like very nato skeptic okay [ __ ] switzerland [ __ ] those losers but it's a very beautiful country if you have a lot of money million rounds in total 20 million rounds this will include drones which which uh demonstrates our commitment to sending our most cutting-edge systems to ukraine for its defense and we're not doing this alone our allies and partners have stepped up to provide significant shipments of security assistance and will continue to help facilitate these deliveries as well the united states and our allies and partners are fully committed to surging weapons of assistance to the ukrainians and more will be coming as we source additional stocks of equipment that are all that we're ready to transfer now i want to be honest with you this could be a long and difficult battle but the american people will be steadfast in our support of the people of ukraine in the face of putin's immoral unethical attacks on civilian populations we are united in our abhorrence of putin's depraved onslaught and we're going to jesus [ __ ] cries yikes fam this is my league games right here okay destiny it's kind of funny how this conflict definitely helped the us to improve the reputation of europe massively so far after four years of trump it feels like having an ally again something that is so unbelievably scary and we can't run it twice so we don't know what it would have been like but oh my god if trump would have been the president during this conflict it i who the [ __ ] knows how god awful the situation would have been handled oh my [ __ ] god like i can't even imagine listening to him try to stumble through like not knowing where ukraine is not having any [ __ ] idea what what's happening at all in this part of the world like just believing everything putin says verbatim like like yeah i don't know he he either would have had he either would have had no involvement whatsoever or or he would have just started sending us troops not even nato just troops to ukraine who the [ __ ] knows but i think i think there's a higher likelihood that i think he would have been inactive i don't think he would have done anything he would have said this isn't our business it's for them to be there blah blah blah like like trump was already undermining the [ __ ] out of nato for so long jeez okay sorry continue to have their backs as they fight for their freedom their democracy their very survival we're going to give ukraine the arms to fight and defend themselves through all the difficult days ahead we're going to continue to mobilize humanitarian relief to support people within ukraine and those have been forced to flee ukraine in just the past few weeks we provided 300 million humanitarian assistance to the people in ukraine and in neighboring countries tens of thousands of tons of food water medicine and other basic supplies to support the people in need our experts on the ground in poland and moldova and other neighboring countries are there to make real-time assessments of a rapidly evolving crisis to get urgently humanitarian supplies of the people in need when they need it and we will support ukraine's economy with direct financial assistance as well and together with our allies and partners we will keep up the pressure on putin's crumbling economy isolating him on the global stage that's our goal make putin pay the price weaken his position while strengthening the hand of the ukrainians on the battlefield at the negotiating team together with our allies and partners we're going to stay the course we'll do everything we can to push for and end this tragic unnecessary war this is a struggle to pitch the appetites of an autocrat against humankind's desire to be free and let there be no doubt no uncertainty no question america stands with the forces of freedom we always have we always will i thank you all and god bless you and i'm going to walk over and sign this legislative sign this bill to allow the drawdown of those materials and make god protect their young ukrainians who are out there defending their country this is the first time he said god protect our troops or god bless our troops 800 million [Music] mr president that's what you guys sound like when you spam at me in chat you're [ __ ] losers what is this he's only targeting putin says he putin says he's only targeting military targets [ __ ] sorry where is military target is he's building his military target geez i read stories about like he used to be a boxer now he's a no-fly zone is obviously not an option of ukraine but i've seen some people advocating for an airlift to assist civilians in escaping providing resources and stuff i just feel this could end similarly to a no-fly zone with the eu slash us aircraft ukrainian airspace do you have a take on this i haven't heard anything about this that sounds scary though because if you start to send u.s air force into these areas if they get shot down what happens it's just yeah i i don't know what happens see our chance putting us trying to nuclear if we're trying to force no flight zone i'm not talking about no fly zone but like sending an assistance and um and airlifting civilians out i don't know if i don't know if we would actually do that it just seems really risky but who knows what would you say to some of the things that putin wouldn't have had a reason to invade under trump since ukraine was already weak and destabilized during his administration well i'm saying the thing was if i'm saying if trump had a second term if trump would have won instead of biden it's a really good read about how the invasion about how before the invasion they executed polling in ukraine that made them more confident about the invasion that they should have been i've i've read some stuff i don't have this offhand um i don't know how true it is because it it almost sounds like movie stuff but um something i've seen pop up a few times is that when you're an autocratic dictator you tend to surround yourself with yes men and when you're running like these military sims and [ __ ] and these like trying to figure the research like everybody's a little bit more incentivized to say that things are better than they actually are i don't know if that's true or not as well um although historically there might be precedence for it what did i read a while ago so randomly there's um kamarov wasn't the first guy to die um in space well technically he died on earth crashing into earth wasn't there like 200 some [ __ ] errors on the spaceship before this the celluc or whatever the [ __ ] it was called before it actually was launched into space but nobody actually wanted to bring it up nobody wanted to say anything because it looked bad for the space program what am i talking about hold on i think the guy's name is kamarov i'm making i made all of this up komarov what was the name of his the soyuz was this the guy that demanded an open casket funeral supposedly but i don't know if that was true or not i've seen that on like meme pages i don't know if that was actually the case but um my my understanding is that i mean you can see pictures of his body that he's like [ __ ] yeah that might be red i mean but i think supposedly the aircraft was like [ __ ] and people knew the aircraft was [ __ ] but there was a problem like reporting this up the chain of command um so who who knows if like similar stuff is happening nah that's a reddit myth oh are those meme myths obama true someone said mao's generals lied to him about the crop harvest for the country and that's what caused the famine and the great leap forward i don't know that's true either but correct correct okay well two people in chat said it so now i believe it if you think of examples when it comes to trump like people he fired or how he filled his staff with temp appointments who were loyal to him oh yeah but i think in america maybe my international is going out it feels like the american it feels like a it feels like an america it's a little bit different though like for whatever reason i don't know if it's the people or the institutions but even when trump would try to use like temp appointees he wasn't i don't think trump ever got the loyalty he wanted right like if trump couldn't get people like barr william barr or mike pence to be the loyalist that he needed and these are like like ride or die trump fans at least bar wise um if you can't get those people to bend the rules for you it seems like maybe for whatever reason with the way the american system or liberalism or the people whatever however it's set up it seems like it's a bit harder to get that type of like yes man you know doing whatever [ __ ] in the united states at the end there was literally no one left accepting people yeah people think that putin wouldn't have had a reason to invade under a second trump term since ukraine was already [ __ ] um i don't know was ukraine already [ __ ] i mean i don't know i don't know how that's something i need to reel about i don't know how the civil war was going in the east i don't know if they were making good progress there or not um i mean crimea was in russian hands so but i don't know if you would say that like ukraine was [ __ ] but hold on i'll be back one second everybody say to uh hamsterhawk one second obama latest putin foreign [Music] i feel like it's not that crazy say putin is fascist no is it is that is that really that insane the fifth column is any group of people who undermine a large group when usually in favor of an enemy group or nation stay woke there are multiple putins i feel like many americans are tragically aware of the fact that the poon of today is not the same putin as the putin of the 90s wait what two putin theory okay sorry who cares about the ukrainian stuff we've got vouch drama guys level of defensiveness anyway and i will never personally understand that but like i said i'm told it's a positive i could simply be out of touch i don't deal with hypotheticals idealism i deal with realities okay this right here like this is like an auto like sub three digit iq right here i'm sorry you're not getting me around this okay oh no i don't deal with hypotheticals i deal with realities and i've devoted the past 16 years of my life to defending um and fighting for trans people that means i've invested the vast majority of my lifetime into advocating for something that you've only been doing for a few where will this sentence go i wonder a few years if you read through any of my comments about this post you know that i consistently encourage people to not hyper focus on you except this was after the hundred tweet thread nor make it about you because for me it's not really about you i'm confused by the very concept that misogyny be helpful in advocating for trans folks listen again i'm confused by the very concept misogyny would be helpful in advocating for trans folks my first message up there was it's worth criticism like that's not so sorry she just gotta let loose she's not let loose okay i'll be more direct i think your behavior here is harming trans people i'd just be interested knowing how you would respond to that hypothetical and then i say christ you type fast because she really does my god she was on her phone too and then here we go you shouldn't be thinking of this conversation as one about you you should uh think about your image or your brand oh sorry your image your brain you should be thinking about the context of i love context this one you should be thinking about it in the context of its impact on trans folks you claim to be advocating for i do not see standing up against misogyny is harming trans people and i don't think you're equipped to define what helping and assisting trans people actually is especially when you seem to think misogyny should be a part of it so i ask you guys how does she how do i get her to learn that i'm not defending the misogyny i i beg of you if you have any suggestions voshvidia gmail.com is the email okay i beg of you um vos you're escalating all this by um by uh fighting instead of moving on and ignoring their wrongness this will cost your relationship with natalie if natalie decides to stop being on good terms with me um over this then she doesn't deserve me damn damn damn yeah her fault her problem sorry damn uh anyway anyway i'm not being flippant about this my frustration stems from the belief that you and other online leftists are hurting trans people and i am not this isn't an ego thing can you please answer that hypothetical it's a yes or no it is literally a yes or no question that's the answer to the hypothetical and then her response if you can't handle me at my destiniest you don't deserve me on my washes i think you need to take a few moments away from this conversation i respect that you've gotten a lot of [ __ ] and that it's been personally very hard on you and my heart reaches out to you but this is absolutely egotistical because you are turning this conversation into a conversation about yourself i beg of you how she's the one talking about me i'm trying to talk about the hypothetical here um yeah uh uh for comments that did not meet need to be made um should the online la this is me should the online left unify in condemning a black man as a bad advocate for progressivism because a conservative pundit did a segment on misogynistic lyrics in his music kat i'm literally just trying to get an answer to that question please don't patronize if anyone here thinks that my tone in this conversation is off i i beg of you to understand that this is the most self-control i've ever exhibited in my entire life um like this i i i i i'm trying so so so hard i have barely even gotten to say anything and we've broken out the racial slurs answers she hasn't answered anything i've essentially said the most i want to say and i don't really want to entertain your hypothetical about some black person you're thinking about this in the context of the so-called online left and that is personally an argument a position that feels very terminally online to summarize i think it's amazing that you're advocating for if if my reading of her um dms sounds like i'm trying to make her sound condescending i think it's warranted a little bit by the contra and youtube chat is that true this is this is uh this is very much a uh you know keep hating your life and working class talking about uh icbm launch detected from belarus's territory uh you know kind of situation we got to be got to be careful oh wait contra is there why does vaush think misogyny doesn't hurt trans women contra if you say something again in chat so i can know that you're still there i will give you a brief version of my argument in full without any condescension but i need to know you're still there because this message was from a little while ago because you know it feels silly otherwise i feel like a bit of a goofy goober is he pronouncing his own name i don't even know how to pronounce i thought it was vosh but now i'm not even sure anymore i just say vows because it either triggers something furious with me uh-oh um i'm really really really sorry guys okay but there's a reason i have a phd in debate and you don't all right and it's because i'm always right okay oh contra gets to disagree with me here she's earned that dumpster let's continue with these while i wait to see if contra responds okay maybe just explain i've explained it if you're a viewer of mine you should know my beliefs guys didn't i explain my position five minutes ago while reading the point on the hypothetical that i wanted to present cat black and dms didn't i just do that i can do it again she's not in youtube chat oh she just came in there to like mischaracterize me then left oh wash burning bridges damn all right let's continue trudges forward no [ __ ] given and i know that you're intelligent enough to understand that i'm giving you that credit because it's hard for me to believe you saw that as necessary so she's still saying i thought it was necessary to be misogynistic like i don't know what i can do to move her off of this uh anyway women am i right vaush cause we hate him i'm thinking of this in the sense that i believe you are defending bad advocacy for trans people presently my frustration stems from my belief that this behavior of yours extrapolated broadly makes trans people vulnerable if your only interest is condescension and you don't want to talk about it that's your right oh my god i'm such a not debate bro i swear to god i can imagine destiny having this twitter arc absolutely wrong i would have this twitter arc for exactly one day then i would go up to memping it up on my subreddit for two days while i played league and then i would come back and all you [ __ ] would have forgotten about it that would have been the destiny approach [ __ ] you losers this is already like we're 11 screenshots in and i don't think you would defend the unironic misogyny though um so again the problem is the problem is that i don't know how up on trans issues wash is to know why the misogynistic joke um while defending trans people is probably not the best thing but like i could see myself totally [ __ ] especially because we're on the anti-white woman arc okay i could have i think i could have just usually made like a white woman joke towards jk rowling in the midst of all of this oh yeah actually yeah maybe i wouldn't have made a misogynistic comment towards jk rowling because i might have made fun of her for being british instead i wonder because i also i probably would have said white women i wonder if i would have done better saying white women than vos just saying all women i'm not sure i don't know how i would have made that tweet i could see myself making a tweet like wash wood it's just it's just a really unfortunate that that is the insult that he went for given the context of what's going on i'm not sure i don't know passive item weapon passive item level doesn't matter do you still get to level the passive item after you've done the evolution right okay out here going like if you don't want to talk about it that's your right what am i supposed to do [ __ ] [ __ ] this playing league is far worse than misogyny but i wish you'd said so from the outset i can't type as fast as you clearly this was a consistent problem by the way i actually just cannot type as fast as she can i was really trying to um boss she doesn't think you're defending the misogyny she's just saying you still said it no she's explicitly accusing me of thinking it's necessary to engage in misogyny she's that's explicit um misogyny which is a mischaracterization position um true what was i saying all right so here we go so this is just in a response to me saying i think you're doing bad advocacy and i want to talk with you about it if you don't want to talk about it we don't have to okay where do you get off believing you can define what advocacy for trans people looks like i'm actually very curious about that i do want to point out again that no matter how much i try to make this about the arguments kat blaque only wants to talk about me you guys are noticing that right every single message from her has explicitly been about me not about the broader argument or any of the reasoning involved or anything like that it's always about me which is making me uncomfortable i'm actually very curious about that as again this is something i've done for the past 16 years of my life your frustrations here don't personally matter to me because whether you're frustrated or understanding one of us lives with the reality of being transgender and transitioning a world that is antagonistic towards us and the other doesn't that last bit is true at least and then i say you can try to understand why i feel that way or you can decide my opinions aren't worth your time and write me off as a terminally online cis savior type but don't pretend at wanting the former when it's going to lead to the latter i love talking about why i believe what i believe i'm happy to explain anything i i cannot i can't be more straightforward than this i can't even worry i'm out i even i cannot even anymore any longer when you argue like this it only comes off as incredibly egotistical and self-involved there are people right now who are living very harsh lives because they are transgender and exist in an ever-increasing antagonistic world your online dis disputes i assume my goodness as always it seems my own community is the center of the uh the pushback that i get oh my god it's unreadable out here i assume the screen just went black because mere moments before deciding to record this i decided to turn off elden ring i was making my computer fan too loud okay here's the dealio folks uh first of all we raised over 300 thousand dollars for ukrainian refugees it's a shame that fact getting lost a little bit in the uh you know media buzz about my excellent opinions and high-profile disputes but it's a real thing and i'm very proud of everyone in my community thank you thank the day off oh okay i don't know why you like me that timestamp assume and debates do not particularly matter in the larger scheme of things but you do function as an example of transgender people in their advocacy yeah i saw a title to defend them again i would like to give you the benefit of the doubt that you know this isn't productive so she's not she's not making any effort to engage here see this gives me the impression that you asking me how i got off believing that was rhetorical and there's no real answer i could give you that you'd listen to to which she says because i think it's actually quite humorous that you as a person who isn't trans genuinely think you have superior insight that's incredibly condescending that's why i was saying on twitter that she literally said she was never going to listen to what i had to say because i was cis it's right there explicit wow she she encouraged me not enthusiastically but you know she invited me to give my perspective and no matter how much i tried to get her to engage with my arguments or just even listen to them uh this is the truth i am cis and she would never have listened to me damn she's being way more condescending though at this point i do not think that i am being condescending at all i will be soon after this but at this point i don't think i have been when did she say that vosh right here the blue text messages are from her see this gives me the impression you asking me how i got off believing i have a right to define what's good trans advocacy is is rhetorical and there's no real answer i could give that you'd listen to and then she agrees because i think it's humorous that you who isn't trans would do this you see you say guys here hold on mods you're not banning nearly enough people in chat i have to say i don't care if the joke title to my video is in all caps the moral necessity of being misogynistic to jk rowling when the content of the video doesn't agree with that title it's a clickbait and also i went into her dms and explicitly told her that the misogyny can be criticized that was the first thing that i said you guys are like well the reason she keeps insisting this is because the title of the video the first thing i said was it isn't about that that's worthy of criticism she ignored that she didn't read it oh no vaush so do we now have an inline oh we do [Music] thank you yahweh thank you yahweh god we've already looked through so much banning all descent in his subreddit guys uh oh who does that sound like right so wait hold on vash i agree with you but you make it too easy for people to attack you with titles like that if you think people would stop attacking me they're gonna attack me anyway bro and you're as delusional as the people who think turfs would stop attacking trans people engaging in an ironic misogyny true trust me based they don't care that's why we use racist humor vaush he's coming to the dark side right so there's no answer you'll hear out why not admit that it's not like i'm unwilling to explain myself but it seems like you just want to condescend should i give you a minute to continue typing out how audacious it is for a cis white boy to have these strong opinions so here's where i get a little bit sassy but like uh oh that is what she said so yeah i get this all the time i'm clearly comfortable expressing disagreements with people whose lived experiences are different than mine which is fine there's not a damn thing wrong with that and then she says lol you can explain it and i'll listen to you but it's still going to be incredibly arrogant for you to think you have authority over conversations around trans issues as a person who does not experience well that has to kill me trans people experience and has not navigated through it this is a really weird point to me i don't think you need to have authority to make an argument i've never believed that ever for any group of people big joelish joined the brigade of course he would uh oh big joel is in everyone will disagree with me on this but everyone who's watching right now should pretty clearly understand why i have every right to think ill of cat black don't worry vows destiny's here for you buddy anyway it is incredibly arrogant for you to say i'm somehow incorrect in my advocacy listen to this it's arrogant of me to disagree with her that's the thing that i am arrogant for doing incredibly arrogant at that um oh big joel just didn't like you retweeting the screenshot oh okay uh it could be josh is the anime destiny is the man anyway i cannot wait for vasha's and word it is incredibly is a person who's been doing it most of their lives who has helped many other people come into themselves again this is a piece of chinese [Music] i don't exactly know how you could possibly believe you have a superior understanding to me this is where she's calling me arrogant uh-oh i don't know how you could possibly believe you could have a superior understanding to me unless you had an overly inflated sense of self i assume that's what's being blocked here and this is why i generally do not connect with your work you are attempting to undermine the work that i've done for most of my life to advocate for trans people and to help people understand them because you don't like that i said your misogyny wasn't helpful like look at this look at it guys look at it this is a very insecure person to the point that i worry for people in like relationships with her this is this insane level of i don't care about you i don't think about you it's incredibly arrogant of you to disagree with you disagree with me it's insane uh that you would even think you can have a point up on me in this you're undoing everything you're destroying my work like no willingness to engage nothing abuser anyway i don't mean to condescend i'm still being too polite here but you're essentially telling me preemptively you don't care what i have to say how am i to respond to that christ you type so fast i'm an anarchist cat i don't think a person needs authority to speak their mind and then a response is true you shouldn't respond to it you should move on and not be invested in my opinion of you because it doesn't matter and because i'm barely invested in you enough to really form much of an opinion about you beyond what i've seen you you're gonna give your takes here um i mean like i feel bad for wash um i think that he probably made a mistake but people are acting like it's like the worst thing in the world it's probably not but i think the problem is bosh is like double triple quadrupling down i i will say there is some shot and fraud for all of his community like if you read his subreddit over the past few days it's been insane like oh my god the lefty community is so horrible all of these people are insane it's crazy how all of them are saying such mean things about wash that are basil and they know that he's not really like okay hmm interesting who does that sound like um yeah i don't know but what are you gonna do okay speak your mind but ignoring the reality of the power dynamics that we live under is incredibly out of touch i have never said that my me being like a cis man doesn't mean that i have privilege over other i've never said that and that you don't consider that or and examine that tells me pretty much everything ooh everything kat knows about the dm debate thinks she cares oh she watched the demon mama debate wait she's watching my live stream debates and she doesn't follow me i think has she been like stalking me like i never would have believed that based on her behavior that's a little bit years but she has acted so crazy over the past few like days that it's like really [ __ ] weird like holy like we're getting a little bit unhinged there bosch but wait what is this [Music] what's going on everybody i'm a song oh my god i've gotten numb to the criticism like it's not it's i as a matter of fact i seek it out now because i make [Laughter] one i've gotten numb to the criticism like it's not it's i as a matter of fact i seek it out now because i make content out of it i think it's funny and fun that's the most important part of making money for me just like being able to have freedom and be able to do and say whatever i want when i want it [Music] what's going on everybody i'm a song [Music] oh there's a whole youtube video on this oh man how can he say that after crying so hard to get banned from lsf that we'll uh we'll watch this later hold on we gotta go i don't care about you like like i worry she's going to start like posting that she doesn't even care like that i live at my address you know like holy [ __ ] jesus [ __ ] um i think dm convo means direct message no wait wasn't that directly about oh i'm stupid that's right demon mama dm no no no no no this is the dm convo that the convo we're looking at right now where this person apparently thought that my behavior warranted them throwing fists how do you get to this like state i know i've said this a lot but i really feel like kat blaque comes across like an abuser here jesus christ really bosh anyway that feels out of curiosity do you believe it's possible however unlikely that i might have an argument worth hearing or a position worth seeing keep in mind that like at the height of his spite towards me voice was literally siding with [ __ ] um anna when anna was looping against me okay so again it's all like really funny to or is that a categorical impossibility to you something literally incapable of being the case i don't ignore the power dynamics cat i know i'm white and cis and young and incredibly influential comparatively and her response is oh poor you i'm sure it must be hard for you to not be seen as an authority in all things what the [ __ ] what does that mean what up what the [ __ ] does that mean this is so revealing to to what's going on in her head her brain is like a [ __ ] matte projector like like all of it is being directly transcribed into a [ __ ] mp4 format it's insane what i take that as a no then you do believe it categorically impossible and then she says i don't think you understand how you're coming off here but that's likely because of all the [ __ ] you're getting and then i say cat all i've said here is that i disagree with you that's it i don't think that's terribly audacious i am privileged and i disagree with a person less privileged that's it i'm fine being that person and then she says you enter this conversation with a sharp disrespect of the work that i've done so i'm not very interested in hearing how you have the better argument so in this case the disrespect she's referring to is me disagreeing with her so her logic is disagreeing with her means she shouldn't have to hear the argument that i have for disagreeing with her wow i mean she disrespected my work yeah but you know and then i said because i'm still trying to be nice untrue i respect the work you do you're one of the very few people i haven't torn into on stream when i have disagreed with you and you know that sincere i'm sure you know i have absolutely no reservations to do that generally i do respect your work the reason for the typos is because she never stops typing like she's always if i want to type women she never stops the next tweet or next dm from her be out there um i have to like do it really really quickly you know like i said i don't care about you calling me out on stream it has no value nor impact to me in any real way for me it would actually make you look kind of childish she's she's being like mega autistic here wash isn't trying to say like i think she even said in her twitter like oh i think he was trying to threaten me well washer's just saying i don't know if i have to do like the non-autism translation um what voice is saying is just like hey like i haven't dragged you on stream like i don't hate you like i don't know why you think i have no respect that's not true and she's like oh you can drag me if you want it's like no hold on that's not what i'm saying right what is this it's because of swashmother oh we already started we already watched this i hate this because it gives destiny ammunition how he's right about the left we are not the same if destiny's position um about the left is that it's bad because it's [ __ ] then destiny is objectively correct what he leaves out the critical portion of this analysis that he neglects is the fact that he and everything he believes in is actually more [ __ ] because even in my very public conversations that reference you i was very polite in asking people not to hyper fixate on you and she's right by the way because of the way the online left is even people in my community right now in youtube chat you can look at them by the dozens possibly hundreds if they were all to type and you will find that they agree with her that's the state of affairs that we're in uh-oh that's how bad it'd be uh oh oh wait maggie mayfish i didn't somebody getting in there realized that you had clout maggie mayfish you have a verified youtube account do you agree with me or do you disagree with me if you disagree you're free to come on stream if you don't want to that's also fine don't know what else to say wait destiny doing agitprop and washes separate every day true i whenever i post i'm always really nice and people seem generally i get good reception over there i'm slowly bringing them over one subreddit poster at a time maggie mayfish oh you have plenty of clown okay there are people in my sight chat that are doing this [ __ ] they're disagreeing with me in the psyche ban people in youtube chat is inca blue in there inca blue if you want to you can go full nuclear and just ban everyone who disagrees with me except for the people with clout okay true i give you permission i don't care as far as i'm concerned you're all abusers or abuse enablers damn and frankly you don't deserve to chat in my beautiful pristine youtube channel um anyway what was i saying all right i haven't called you out in stream nor have i had any interest in doing so because i think you're a lot better than most of the losers in this political space i don't think this anymore and you can type up your explanation i will never see misogyny as a productive way to advocate for trans people but i'm still fascinated by the logic behind it this is still what we're on we're on image 18 out of like and then i continue so no it's not disrespect i just think i'm right on this one if there is no way of convincing you of that or of even having you hear me out that remains you're right god i'm being so nice that remains your right if you just want to tell me that i'm disrespecting you even for like disagreeing and that i'm too cis to even be able to have an opinion on this holy [ __ ] i get painted as such the bad guy in all these disagreements dude this is like legitimately undeservedly nice i'm violating a [ __ ] moral immoral code by being this kind to a person this shitty oh my god oh my god saint vosh praise be unto him um [ __ ] cat i did you have to answer the hypothetical and then she continues jesus has a very intense negative impact on me when you explicitly she's unstoppable you disagree with or dislike you are saying there's a degree at which you will exert misogyny towards those who disagree with which for me makes you seem like a person who is quite unsafe and every other context where that's been the case that has been my feeling i don't trust people who engage in bigotry only when they believe they can get away with it because the person they're being bigoted towards is a bad person i will i i understand people who disagree with me on this will never understand this is a worthwhile point however she is being an explicit bigot in this conversation because he's a white male you know i'm also not defending the misogyny here but um you know damn hold on yeah that for me will never be an expression of a person who is actually safe and then i say and how about that hypothetical soundcloud artist to which case she says you've quite the echo chamber within your fandom clearly but most people are going to observe you exerting misogyny see it for what it is and disconnect from what you're saying i know but i will allow you to explain to me why it's necessary in your advocacy for trans rights she said this like eight times like all right if you wish explain to me why being misogynistic is good like like she like i keep being like i'm trying to move it on to anything else like any other talking this applies to him too no and then she says again i'm not going to engage in your hypothetical and then i say oh my god um but that's the point and then she says i'm waiting on your explanation putting my phone down and then i say i think you agree with me on this broadly you're just biased against me specifically i don't blame you the discourse surrounding me is very toxic the point of the hypothetical is to it says thee but to isolate the variables and give us a better understanding of the ethics involved if you're really unwilling to answer a yes no question after typing all this out at me i will choose to believe it's because you know you would never type out a long tweet thread dragging a black man for objectifying women a bit in a song after being attacked by a massive conservative pundit uh in an exchange so big it literally made headlines oh you'd never do it the reverse you know that is right social media [ __ ] storms discourse narrows and nuanced blurs and in that moment the overwhelming priority is to support your political ally and not join shapiro or whoever is overstating the harm of their problematic content oh i know you really don't care about this and there's nothing i can say to convince you but i genuinely think you're in the moral wrong here passively taking jko aside even through equivocation and selective focus i bet she loves the fact that the left is so divided she can dig around in a limitless reservoir of ammunition to fuel her transphobia um uh on for whoever uh and whatever she decides to focus on people on the left will bolster her argument by joining her side and condemning the problematic behavior no matter how minor josh keeps bringing this analogy but it doesn't work right no i think the analogy works perfectly but she doesn't want to engage with it probably because it shoots down her entire argument that's why it does even if it means playing into a billionaire bigot's narrative huh there you go that she said she'd set down the phone and i'd type it out and there you go that's my point why do you still think she'll listen at this point i didn't at this point i had a feeling she would make this public so i maintained an effort to be as explicit and clear as possible so that if she did leak dms i would have this to show you guys i knew it i knew this wouldn't go anywhere five minutes in i'm jason moore but i'd hoped at the very least that if this did all go public i'd be able to point to this and say hey i did a i made a good faith [ __ ] effort based you'll never guess how she responds i really truly cannot express how little i think of you or care about you enough to specifically be biased against you personally i actually think it's incredibly condescending and stupid to think that the only way i'd ever oppose misogyny is if it was you saying it what do you even imagine i have against you you said and done plenty of things that i find distasteful your person like many other people who i've completely written off because of how you engage in isms life is too short for me to be hyper fixated on a person who entertains themselves with misogyny sexism and racism i do not think of you nor hold anything really again that is transphobe voice guys the person who speaks out both sides he's doing the transport voice oh no this is a particularly weird accusation speaking out both sides of your mouth means you double talk right aren't i known for doing the opposite of double talking like i don't double talk i have a point and then i just scream that point from the hilltops forever no matter what it does to my career or reputation i i i am very not uh very much not this um like in your imagination do you think i'd celebrate somebody like dan olsen saying that women need to shut up she literally can't like her only she cannot move off the misogyny thing she can't move off of it because just to be clear if he said that i would similarly dismiss him even if understanding his joke was ironic because i don't like misogyny regardless of who expresses it keep in mind she typed all that before i could even get out this message she typed so quickly watch is getting dominated in this conference if shapiro attacked a black man and black culture broadly because that man saying some misogynistic stuff i would realize there's a time and place for nuanced criticism and a time and place for realizing of to stand against the broader problem and i sure as hell would never say oh no by saying you [ __ ] [ __ ] you're giving shapiro ammunition for how black culture is bad and toxic christ like right would you guys do this like i i i think i'm pretty sure that if i did this i would be called racist like if if if uh like if a progressive black youtuber like dropped the soundcloud thing if he just said like hey candace owens is a [ __ ] or like you know marjorie taylor green is a [ __ ] that is misogynistic and if marjorie taylor green decided to cry bully over it and i was like we need to talk about the misogyny on the left look at this person who called marjorie taylor green a [ __ ] like i feel like people would realize that i was in the wrong there but wow well what are you going to do all against you is your inference here that i would be supportive of a black man's misogyny because he's black because i've actually spent quite a bit of time speaking about how i feel the opposite then i say you're still not engaging it's fine i didn't expect you to but i do feel better knowing i've made an effort and she says ben shapiro is a hack and a reactionary and i wouldn't think much about him i don't know why this is her default response to everything i think about him far less than i think about you which is not very much it's kind of a weird thing to say oh dude this is so [ __ ] weird yeah is she obsessed with shapiro too she i should have walked in here this was gritty this is really [ __ ] weird somebody listen okay [ __ ] okay i oh we're good do you think kat black doesn't do live streams because it would be too much of a hassle to deconstruct and reconstruct the shrine she's built to me and that in the back of her bedroom like every time she wanted to go live [ __ ] this is very strange this is very weird okay [ __ ] yeah if i ever go missing all right you guys know who's like [ __ ] person number one okay jesus christ what's the substance of the drama it's all just really stupid this is just like why are you so insecure lefty and wedding is just so boring it's just so dumb what do you care about like 12 times reminded you you don't think of or care about me that's okay i don't own space in your mind you don't work for me i've never told you you should care about me more why do you keep saying that over and over if you're trying to calm my ego it's not working because you continuously act like i'm particularly invested in you and that's really just not the case you're projecting then i know nothing will calm your ego i thought that way long before you messaged me i don't think about you much also here's a strong feeling i have about you i'll be up front i care about you i think you're causing harm that's why i dm'd you and then she says dude you're literally in my dms trying to have a hypothetical conversation about something to defend your own argument wow yeah you literally just said that you think i am particularly biased against you jeez who isn't and then i say i won't feign disinterest i'm worried for minorities in this country in my head i'm thinking like can i get her to understand this isn't about my ego i'm legitimately concerned about how her behavior negatively affects minorities like trans people especially bad times are coming and all that and then she says i've devoted a lot of my time to calling out misogyny on my platform and it's pretty shitty of you to vaguely make the suggestion i would somehow not care about the misogyny if it was part of black culture so she won't answer the hypothetical she'll just like gesture at it uh nice me minnie and i say i care very much about trying to push people's behavior in the right direction to be better advocates and such to the best of my ability and then cat says my autistic or is wash making this out to be a way bigger deal than it actually is especially about well cat's making it out to be a really big deal and vosh is getting harassed by a lot of people about it now so i mean oh she cut a part off here god damn it i think at this point oh she cut a lot off here 25 26 wait holy [ __ ] oh no you don't oh no you don't oh no you don't no nope nope 7 34 p.m does anyone know which coast pat is on i think we're on the same coast so same time zone because these are her screenshots so the times would be okay three 7 34. oh we skipped a lot was that was this just a misordered no it's not oh no well i thought we weren't leaking uh well nothing in here is a dox or anything there's nothing in here that she i think has any more of a right to not have seen opposed to everything else here here we go here we go baby the actual dms oh he's bringing him out uh she says i don't expect for you to be very invested in everything that i post especially about race but i actually speak quite frequently about black men's misogyny and then i say cat would you ever say by writing misogynistic lyrics into the song this black man has given me hey i just wanna i want you guys okay because you guys hate me so much because i've been playing league okay now i want you to be grateful for me because at least when i get into drama it's some good ass [ __ ] all right this is some [ __ ] sleepsony snooze to me boring ass nobody's getting raped murdered not that i've done any of those things either of those things okay no racism no sexism no homophobiaism no deadbeat dad is okay this is some sleeper boring dumb [ __ ] that nobody cares about okay when i bring you drama it is top memes all right it's not this sleeper [ __ ] okay i guess there is a little sexism but it's not even good sexism it's just the most boring kind of sexism okay ben shapiro ammunition for calling black culture stupid and degenerate that right there really trying to layer it down look at what any said that uh did any say cough bob seven cough uh excuse me that listen you have never read a twit longer or a google doc as entertaining as i made that google doc okay that was my finest writing project frames bosch all right don't even try to say that that was boring that was my most well constructed work yet all right compare that to any other google doc and find me a better one please there are three numbers that get skipped i think in the drop box or in the um in the imager like what she linked lacked these in the drop box oh no oh no well and then i say i'm not defending misogyny here we should why isn't there like a top 10 dusting dramas list the [ __ ] game of thrones drama the spoiler memes that tell me that wasn't some top tier some of you might even have been negatively impacted to this day did i tell you one of the times when i was at um i was over at the otb house and scar was telling me that he was going through one of those threads and he got [ __ ] destroyed review just manufactured consent to go on another league of legends binge yes at this point i'll take it oh no demon mama liking auntie wash tweets obama true and she says and i think it should be called out and the way that people associate it with blackness exclusively is just racism as a goth i [ __ ] know that misogyny is an issue in music and does not know a specific racial background which is true and then i say i never have is there a lot of misogyny culture one particular thing to point out i have no idea can you please answer that question it is directly analogous she says lol i understand the argument you're attempting to make here but what you're missing is that the context is completely different so i was right she never would do what she would her answer to my hypothetical is no her answer is no she recognizes that it would be inappropriate to dogpile on that black guy for some misogyny while being attacked by a giant conservative figure of course obviously it's because now she wins again sorry if that sounds conceited you guys might know i have a pretty bad reputation in the online left obama and i said oh my god i knew it it's not an analogous example not even vaguely it is of course directly analogous but um then i said that right there is why i chose a black musician she says lol and i said i knew you'd agree with me she said no i don't think you actually understand what i'm saying here i think both you and the black musician engaging in misogyny is a bad thing notice how that's not the hypothetical right there then i say sure me too but that's not the point cat would you allow the same thing and then i repeat the hypothetically it's about attacking them during the media condemnation and she says but you've i hope you compare this time someone you're comparing someone's art to you posting something misogynistic on twitter these are not the same things i don't get it is she saying misogyny is more acceptable if it's in a song i i don't get that that's the point is misogyny more okay cat's point there by the way is that there's fundamentally a difference between doing advocacy work um and being misogynistic they say simon says [Applause] versus doing um uh versus doing like art and being misogynistic now that either is okay but that fundamentally it's a different type of action um i don't know if i would have grown up but that's cat's argument right because it's baked into song lyrics she says you're explicitly advocating for trans people of being misogynistic if a black person was explicitly advocating for black folks and being misogynistic at the same time i would condemn it all the same and then i say please answer the question see i'm okay with criticizing misogyny but i'm not okay with buying conservative propaganda she says that's a straw man and you know it i don't and will never defend misogyny unlike you i'm so sorry to bring this up but cat has literally told a suicidal trans teen to kill themselves i just really do not buy the like the holier than now like moral grandstanding from this piece of [ __ ] oh pieces that was three years ago i don't care if this is the level of faith that she's going to treat me in then you really think three years is going to keep me obama true oh by oh to put it another way if i had done that three years ago do you think that cat would bring that up to condemn me yeah sorry no i don't care i'll treat people in very good faith if uh if they're treating me in good faith and when cat's acting like this like i'm sorry i have no reason to believe she's any different is she not acting like an abuser here you think she wouldn't an abuser also she was an adult she'd been doing trans advocacy for like a decade at that point that's been on the internet for longer than i've known that i was a leftist please explain for she was like 30 or something people uh please explain for your people who weren't there oh it's on my twitter you burn lauren's bridge please don't delete this i just can't stand moral grandstanding from people who like treat why would i bring my muscles to me and like the one that i sent the hardest for parents that like really really bugs me i'm not even going to read it out loud anyway both situations are wrong she says both situations are wrong but what do you guys want me to click this [ __ ] picture what being trans is cool no it's not ugly being trans is the coolest thing you could be on a scale of cool trance at the top so i don't make the rules stop being such a [ __ ] hipster i'm going to [ __ ] kill myself because i'm not cis this is not cool i am 14 and i am so [ __ ] listening to my life so [ __ ] early because i'm a trans individual me hating the fact that community life is free bringing money to destiny what a ride who deserves to die does not make me a hipster put me in the will kid damn oh [ __ ] this person is doing the lit you say she's doing the destiny tweet obama that too this is in 2019 oh a long time but you're talking about ben shapiro criticizing a rap artist who's making a sexist song and you advocating for trans people while being misogynistic uh it's not even the same thing and at this point we're both typing so quickly that i don't even know who's responding to who at any point but i'm just going to respond oh my god it's like death notes flying back and forth if for example someone released a blm um track and then within that track engaged in transphobia or misogyny et cetera et cetera i would equally believe that that sabotage of the message was being expressed who [ __ ] who you're literally my dm's victimizing yourself and it's really honestly pathetic i really would not have expected that from you no we don't agree i never said misogyny matters less when the person is black you suggest is there like a button for like the sound effect or whatever can i i want to push that i just need that button to push the sound effect the boom sound effect is it the vine boom it's called the vine boom this i need to put this on my stream deck how do i do it i'll do that later never said you did and then she said then what the [ __ ] was your point about you not being you or not being a white guy what is that even supposed to mean and then i posed the hypothetical again and again i just think it's so bizarre that you genuinely think this has to do with you specifically oh my god you're still projecting well these are not analogous examples at all and i'm glad we agreed so at this point the fact that she's not willing to answer this is obviously because the answer is no and she knows that makes me look good so she can't engage with it so she has to say like you know based values take her out base yeah i think the critic i think the criticism ben shapiro makes incorrect i think the premise is wrong we don't agree here because we're not saying the same thing so this is really interesting to me right here yeah right here so she's saying they're not analogous because ben shapiro would be wrong to say black culture is stupid and degenerate because one black man is misogynistic but that is supposedly different from my situation how is it different which implies that she believes jk rowling is correct my god trans people are misogynists and threats to women that's what she's saying right there holy [ __ ] she was there all the time you know um that is the direct thing that she's saying right there if she's saying that they differ because ben shapiro's criticism is honestly when it comes down to evolution it's literally like you got me they are just jk rowling's anyone who says otherwise is a bacca keep hating your life then working class andy and then i say ah interesting so you think jkr is right to say trans advocates are all misogynists who want to suppress cis women's sex-based rights that's interesting and she says now i'm curious do you think that your tweet referring to jk rowling and speaking up for trans people is this the same as an artist putting out something into the atmosphere without a political message or goal um i think your trans audience very clearly demonstrates they are at the very least indifferent to misogyny oh god if she only knew um not all of them but quite a few of them certainly did prove that point and what's frustrating is that misogyny is not required for you to advocate for trans people is the implication that misogyny is required for black soundcloud artists to advocate for okay what you're doing is misrepresenting the issue that i have with this it has nothing to do with you at all i don't want anyone to advocate for trans folks for being misogynistic no matter what color they are no matter if they are trans or cis and then i say i don't know if we need to continue this conversation beyond you saying you believe jkr is right when she says trans advocates are all misogynists nobody is defending misogyny cat and then cat points out lol i think she's correct to point out that some trans women engage in misogyny while advocating for trans people this right here is more damage this is like trans people right here than anything i have ever said or done holy [ __ ] i think jk rowling is actually kind of correct when she says that uh trans women are engaging in misogyny this right here is legit is this i can't believe they sent her out of the tweets that's crazy oh okay we can we can go back up through here yeah okay that part was skipped i don't know if it was skipped by accident or something that she didn't want to show oh that right there is legitimately more transphobic than anything i've said dragger vosh take her out um like by far yeah this is something like appeasement [ __ ] right here i can't believe it i would never say never said i would never yeah well jkrs so transfer like some trans women by some do we mean like it's capable of happening at all maybe i think that trans women are as a group significantly less misogynistic than any other group of people like like they are the least likely group of people to be misogynistic like so no i don't think that she has a point i don't think she's correct at all you know like that would be like um that would be like ben shapiro saying well black people are murderers and cat being like well i think he's correct to point out that some black people murder and it's like wait that that was the worst possible analogy that flush could have used because as a per capita compared to other groups of people in the united states that's actually true so is vaush actually saying that trans women are misogynistic per capita compared to cisgender people uh oh some every people murder why would you you wha i'm cat black is crying hitler said that the jews oh no he's doing a rap he's been listening too much mr moon we're all bankers uh uh well he had a point because at least one of them was uh huh like i can't like i i can't [ __ ] obama jesus christ he's two hours away guys he can [ __ ] whenever he wants don't don't listen to that you are the fact that you couldn't just say hey maybe i shouldn't have said that and you're trying to come up with all these hypotheticals is indeed a defensive misogyny i assume she means defense of misogyny so i like this right here the fact that you couldn't just say hey maybe i shouldn't have said that and if we go back to uh if we go back to the first [ __ ] thing that i said i'll own up to criticism for the ironic misogyny that's fine and fair it wasn't even funny the first thing i said oh but it gets even worse uh-oh even worse it's even worse no way how and then i say like one of my first messages here was me saying it was a bad joke and i'm okay being criticized for it i'm really not if you're reading a defensive misogyny into what i'm saying your reading comprehension is suffering and then she said i would have had so much more respect for you if you simply said you know what maybe i shouldn't have said that because it's not particularly productive to the conversation oh my god but instead you're trying to get me and gotchas about ben shapiro and black artist making art because you think i have a bias against you and not a bias against misogyny it's incredibly egotistical and condescending you're right i don't have good reading comprehension and you're more intelligent than i am she reeks of so much insecurity that it legitimately makes me uncomfortable to read through these oh my god give her do another round for that reason you should not care what i have to say it's this is by the way guys if you have a significant other who talks to you like this she's an abuser swear to god you'll be better off for it dump them please dump them okay then i say you think being asked simple questions is a gotcha then she says no i think you're obviously attempting to have a gotcha and it's very immature isn't this like the thing that destiny did where like or like the meme of like destiny like a conservative will say listen i just i just want to white white people to be able to live and free with white people in this country and then destiny be like wouldn't that mean you'd have to like deport or kill a bunch of oh it's at least like gotcha nice like they don't like they think it's a gotcha to be asked clarifying questions about their beliefs oh god demon mama did this too oh it's a really common thing with people who have bad arguments okay but i have to stop [ __ ] talking to even mama because like i don't know how that's going to pan out i don't know how burnt that bridge is well we'll see if we can be constructed oh no let's focus on this okay all right okay um and then i say what here's what here's where i have the existential crisis okay why does it always turn out this way i'm very happy i do the work i do this happens every time and she says lol you literally kept preemptively saying we read before understanding my position you're asking this question to see if i would say that a black artist should change what they're saying because it makes the black community look bad which is misrepresentation of the issue that i had with this i say we do agree she says when you engage me that way you're making it very clear you don't actually care about this stuff why would i take issue with misogyny as a woman why wouldn't i take issue with people advocating for trans folks in ways that are unhelpful to us and then i say i haven't seen any tweet threads from you on how people who ratio ben shapiro by calling him short are bad advocates for progressivism this is also analogous by the way and then she says because again i don't give a [ __ ] about ben shapiro which suggests that her position on advocacy without problematic language only applies in the very specific okay and then i say cat no one is defending misogyny this is getting concerning you care about jkr and she says then why are you incapable of simply saying you shouldn't have made the misogynistic joke why are you in my dms trying to have a debate with me about this and i say i think your behavior harms vulnerable minorities because i typed this out before i realized she was type again keep in mind i'm always struggling to keep up she types it twice my speed and then she says i don't think you're capable of even qualifying that but but again be entertained to hear why you think you have a better understanding of what's good for me as a person who actually lives with being transgender keep in mind earlier i literally fully typed out why i feel what i feel and i say also cat i said i shouldn't have said it in the opening few messages she says then why'd you proceed with the stupid hypothetical to which i said reading comprehension more to myself and she says i already told you i didn't read your messages wow i beg of you to explain to me okay we have dug the hole so far so deep at what at what level like there is like what what what mean thing could i say that wouldn't be true like oh my god i have every right to dislike her oh my god and then you know we can skip ahead after all of this was said and done and she gets stupider from here if you can believe it after all of this was said and done i didn't want it to go public because i knew i knew i was trying to protect her because i that i would feel [ __ ] depressive anxiety watching my community defend her as you all already have by the way so thanks for that and bosh community or letting him down avoid it ever being made public i dm'd a bunch of people on twitter to push her latest tweet down my dms list so that in the incredibly unlikely event that i accidentally show my dms page she's not at the front page like i made an effort to prevent an accidental leak of any drama and then while shopping at trader joe's she typed out an actual literal 100 tweet thread an actual explicit literal 101 thread 100 tweets somebody link the tweet thread i don't want to go through her tweets i know she tweets every 30 seconds wait she was shopping and tweeting no i was shopping and tweeting i was at trader joe's as i checked my notifications [Music] so from rapping to football is this how you always disagree with black thank god and then she leaks that we used to sext and then dropped all the dms in a drop box violating the uh the um violating the the code that you don't leak dms between content creators so wait there's a code okay wait what the [ __ ] but yeah but i'm the psychotic one who's dying on a hill and can't take the l like this like this all this i'm already aware of and then i get to open up chat and there are people spamming just take the l okay cool fine no sure yeah fine okay fine guys sure fine [ __ ] sure you guys don't even understand okay she broke the creative code but you can read her twitter thread if you want but like given how she's acted in the dms we're looking at do you really think she like represented my positions fairly in the twitter thread or understood anything that i said or like like anything like that there's anything of worth in there you can read them all the dms are public i don't even need to speak for any of this it's all public it's all visible [ __ ] me i [ __ ] up all this is public oh what the [ __ ] is it weird she randomly revealed you guys used to sext yeah i don't know why it is very strange and highly inappropriate to just drop that unprompted for something years in the past and also just leak a bunch of dms but that's basically sexual assault she's hot and she's got big tits so you know what i'll take the w thanks alright you're a stupid abusive [ __ ] cat but thanks for that i guess all right okay so anyway so anyway she says i already told you i didn't read your messages and i said because the hypothetical is about an entirely different subject i'm getting concerned for your well-being and then she says because the hypothetical seeks to defend what you've said she thinks the hypothetical is about defending the misogyny she she literally doesn't this is what i mean about like like reading comprehension or like basic intelligence i don't know how to work through something like this does that make any sense like i don't i don't know if there's anything that i can say to work through this it's not about defending misogyny it's about how you treat a big drama situation when you're being attacked by conservatives first like and and and being used as a like being straw man to serve their points but you also did something mildly problematic and then i said something totally true i said at no point during this convo ever have i been defending misogyny which is true true we've read through every dm we even looked at the ones that were left in the dms true vows uh i never did and she said lol now you're just being weird and ableist i'm doing quite well because i said i'm being concerned for her well-being and then i said i mean i could accuse you of lying then she said i'm very it's very weird and gaslighting for you to act like i'm suddenly unstable because i don't think you should be misogynistic to defend trans folks damn okay but would it be ableist to say this is like schizophrenic it's like there's a separate set of like she's responding she's reading those and responding to this somewhere so there's there's another set of dms she's getting in her head uh yeah you're right this is this is being very mean to schizophrenic people anyway uh go ahead accuse me of lying i say cat you're trying to gaslight me she says define gaslighting for me [ __ ] weird thing to say we both know what it means and then i say you keep insisting this convo is about defending misogyny you're impugning me for not saying things said to you and she said then what's it about what is it about explain it succinctly then i say scroll up i don't know cat i've typed it out like four times damn she says i'm okay we've already established my reading comprehension sucks so maybe i'd appreciate it if you broke it down into smaller words for me if you have a significant other who acts like this please break up with them i'm begging you ooh and then i say what so you can accuse me of being condescending or ableist or racist it's been typed i think this is a fair thing to say she accused me of being condescending for disagreeing with her at all like as a concept she accused me of being ableist for pointing out that i mean i don't know are you well like i don't i don't care whatever and then she said all right i'll read it when i get a chance right i said i said way earlier that i'm happy to explain everything i believe but i don't want to do so if you're not going to care about it or pay attention to any of it i can't believe i'm still trying at this point she says yeah randomly saying your concern for my well-being is pretty ableist oh okay that's actually the only solid thing i've said about you in any other context i've said you've engaged in isms but didn't say you were exactly someone who was racist or misogynistic she hasn't said i'm what okay she accused me of talking about both sides of my mouth i said i have foolishly fallen for the meme yet again again i'm talking to myself mostly right now i think this marks the change in the conversation where i start trying less which frankly it's about time jesus i don't know how much more clear i could have been about not caring about your explanation because again this was never a conversation i had about you specifically and explicitly oh no if you read the very first post contra blocked vosh oh no oh no the vouch bridge maybe it's just temporary most i made about your tweets it starts with completely ignoring who said this because it's not about you but you want to make it about you we need a destiny in moderation true your behavior which is harming trans people she says does contrast i don't know if she ever followed this account comprehension the process how else am i supposed to straw man voice i will scroll up later and respond to your lengthy post because you clearly care so much i say it is about neither me nor misogyny and she says i don't think final tweet about able to demonstrate because it's maddening to watch you pose as the savior of the transgenders then do edgy misogyny in the name of that and finally melt down we already read this finally meltdown when a trans woman who knows more than you about this criticizes you for it damn straight that harm but i can pretty clearly quickly show you how your tweets are currently being weaponized against trans people not even trying very hard i'll read it when i get a chance and then i say also you don't need to and then i repeat the same hypothetical over again and then i say answer this and explain why you answer this that answer she says no no no you asked me politely so i'm going to i've already answered that scroll up then i said no you explicitly did not it's yes no just type yes or no it's less effort than any other response you can give she says your premise is flawed i say that's not an answer the question doesn't state the parallel uh so the point that i'm making here is that you can answer that hypothetical but then with a yes or no but then go on to say but i don't think it compares to this example does that make any sense yeah i gotcha you can answer the hypothetical and then say but i don't think that it's that that it compares to what you've done but you still have to answer the hypothetical the hypothetical is holistic it's right here there's nothing about this premise that you can't yeah and she says come up with a better hypothetical that's more accurate and i'll give you a yes or no answer and i say i'm asking in a vacuum and i say wait do you not think that happens she says don't be condescending i say you won't answer because your answer is no because we both agree she says yeah i've already explained why it's a bad premise i said incorrect you jumped ahead and attacked the inferred association i don't know why i'm using words like this i know she doesn't yeah she says all right i guess we both suck at reading comprehension then i say not the premise of the central question she says would you like me to explain why the premise is correct then i say there is no attacking that premise because there isn't not of the central hypothetical and she says because to answer your question i've actually already devoted a lot of time to calling out misogyny it feels really weird that vosh is getting this much backlash when the joke is kind of mild yeah the problem though is that the joke went ultra mainstream right you're actually getting engagement by jk rowling but then the engagement is literally misogyny which is like what trans communities get accused of all the time that's why i'm saying that like um like i feel bad for bosh a little here because i the joke wasn't that bad it's just that the kind of joke that ended up going mainstream was just like the worst possible thing kind of like and then when mainstream articles get written about it he looks he looks really unhinged because all the articles now are just like suspected pedophile enabler vosh tells women to just be quiet when jk rowling states somewhat reasonable opinion on twitter it just it basically just is [ __ ] yeah music and then i say oh christ wait what did i just click understand is this deliberate she says no i understand what you're trying to say and i disagree with the premise of the question and i say i have to assume this is deliberate i'm mostly talking to myself still she says you're comparing your unnecessary misogyny and your advocacy to song lyrics and some racist opinion about said lyrics it's not a good premise so what oh right here what's up oh you're left the wall didn't empty my pockets until after we got back uh-oh anyway as roommates are rebelling halfway through this we're almost we're almost to the mean portion okay we're almost there folks if we're gonna go through these i'm gonna make sure i don't want cat to get away with a hundred tweet thread that makes me look bad and nobody look at the dm she leaked when the dms make it pretty clear that she's like monstrously [ __ ] abusive and i did literally nothing wrong here anyway are you guys miscommunicating slash talking past each other it's her part probably deliberately i'm not talking past her at all okay i'm i'm punching a brick wall right now okay i'm i'm levying i'm levying an overwhelming assault against a a cube of platinum like it's i i'm not at fault here okay i i am doing my best oh my god there's i hope you guys can agree with me there is literally nothing that i can do at this point ever to get her to understand what the hypothetical is meaning to demonstrate there is no series of words i could type out no amount of time i could spend there's nothing literally nothing that i could do it is impossible you want you know what i mean that is the way i feel and i'm extremely confident that is the case okay this guy's linked this tweet like 50 times okay this better be a good this better be a funny tweet i don't know that guy i don't even know what you're liking me good one dude okay scroll up i can't scroll up [Music] [ __ ] anyway um then i say very few things frustrate me she says well i told you several times you should probably not care about my opinion so feel free to log off whenever i say oh my god this is definitely deliberate she says no you just think you're so much more intelligent than i am and it's very entertaining to me i'm not even entirely sure what i'm supposed to read from this exactly but my response now we're now we're we're getting back into it i will assume either legitimate cognitive problems or deliberate malicious bad faith cat you don't have to be smart to not do what you're doing and she says your premise is bad faith and you clearly don't actually care for an explanation about how your premise is flawed so what are we even here to talk about um enjoy getting oh sorry i thought i said i thought this said i enjoy getting trans people hurt and i was like wait hold on that doesn't make me look good and i said enjoy getting trans people hurt i suppose um i was thinking for a second why would i type that yeah no i'm doing so well and and that that really undermines my point um chris regan's youtube chat hey chris morgan it's drama drama what day is it tuesday drama tuesday anyway um she says lol you're being a baby i honestly would not have expected you to be this way like it's quite literally petulant child behavior oh and i say cat you just admitted you're trolling me because you think it's funny that i think i'm smarter than you you're acting like a tween for channeler oh which damn yeah and she says yes because it's hilarious to me it's absolutely hilarious that a cyst she means a sis white man genuinely believes he has a superior understanding of what is good and not good for a trans person when he quite literally does not live with being transgender so this is what we're dealing with she thinks that like at a fundamental intrinsic level all the insults are coming out guys her to be wrong on an issue like that she's not even taking the light version of this argument which is like maybe we should give more credence to trans women on trans issues this is explicitly the idea that a cis person could ever be right where i am wrong on these issues is hilarious tsunami in japan right now she says it's an arrogant thing to even vaguely start to say uh if you genuinely believe that me advocating uh uh against your ironic misogyny is harming trans folks i'm comfortable with you thinking that's because uh that because it's wrong then i say see this is it precisely she continues and i've spent most of my life helping trans people i have more investment in this convo than you do and you being dismissive in this way is quite shitty you're asking me to respect you and you clearly don't respect me not really holy [ __ ] she's such a [ __ ] contra point's his biggest l at least from where i'm standing i'm unmoved we'll never see to peer pressure no matter who's pushing it if we learn to see arguments to public opinion we'll never ever win against the right bro why are you anybody remember um anybody remember uh kenosha in written house king abuser dude holy [ __ ] and i said there is never any way at all to make you believe anything other than what you already believe because of your ego [ __ ] and she says no it's not really even my ego it's my experience i say the idea of learning something uh white from a white cis boy is too much for you even hearing one out really she says i don't have an eagle around the work i do i don't know what that means but i'm not going to believe that you are a person who has the ability to decide whether or not the things i do are good or bad for the trans community ego ego it must be ego that's right yeah and i say you've been projecting so much insecurity onto me throughout this conversation she says you're not a part of the community maybe send over one of send one of your friends over who is trans and to explain it to me and i'll hear it this is weird that's a little weird she's doing speech to text i think that's cheating this is really gross send send over a trans to talk with me and maybe i'll hear you out this is legitimately really [ __ ] tokenizing like this is disgusting i legitimately think this is incredibly disgusting um like like explicitly trans photographic you know yes like yeah i don't know and then i say through racial essentialism no less thank goodness i'm not as racist as you she says lol when did i say you were racist and i say thankfully for me and the people who listen to me i am actually capable of hearing out criticisms from others no matter their skin color or back background i know how liberal she says lol i say it doesn't wound my ego lol okay lola you guys get the tone of the conversation for a little while you you get it basically she she will never accept criticisms from a non from a non-cis person i'm abusive for saying that i disagree with her like i'm sorry you can read through this if you want it's all public i want to get to the i want to i want to get to the point that i wanted to make okay believe what you like cat people so arrogant they think it's impossible for them to be a bad advocate because they're part of the group they're advocating for are very vulnerable to turning bad like all those second wave feminists who became turfs pride cometh before the fall and all that damn she says it's not impossible for her to become a bad advocate and then she says my understanding of trans life is informed by experience when yours is only formed by opinion and debate and she says continue what's up with the shitty chat constantly advocating against the ways in which cis people's opinions of us limit our ability to move through the world comfortably and safely remember no matter what she says remember her real argument is that she cannot be wrong to a cis person no matter what she types out her her real like her real belief is um if cis people disagree with her on trans issues they are wrong fundamentally and it's an insult for them to even think of disagreeing with her it doesn't matter what else she says her real position has been made clear um and then i said ah i remember these arguments from my debate with blair white she typed so fast or speak types i thought trans people didn't need surgery to be real members of their chosen gender but i suppose that's really her field and i should have listened to her now i get to have the [ __ ] voice and she says lol who said that you are an openly cis man attempting to speak over people who are transgender and then i say right i tried to speak over blair white a trans woman should i not have listened to her but and this is incredible she is too stupid to understand what i'm doing here she says that is absolutely nothing to do with your state of transition you're a man and a cis one and you said that several times i want you to think of this response for a second i want you to think of this response and what it must mean is going on in her mind in response to what i just said get him vosh get him mmm i'm not misgendering anybody i don't know either case you're listening this is this is just a glitch this is a cognitive failing i don't understand the thought process all i know is that she's not understanding that's it that's all i can get from this isn't she like non-binary and very fem presenting i wouldn't put her in the same cup wait is the cat no the cat person must be male to female is the cat person just non-binary no you're right okay yeah what do you mean okay whoever said that in chat you were just wrong on cat the cat person is m2f uh trans person anyway cat is a woman thank you for the virtual signal that doesn't really answer any of our questions though it continues she says it's also very condescending that you think i believe people can't be criticized because of their identity or who they are that's never an argument i've made what i've said is that you are not in a position to where you actually have lived experiences that would inform what is good or not good for trans people you can listen to whoever you want personally it wouldn't shock me if you advocated for her positions i'm also not very invested in that and then i say gotcha jesse lee peterson thinks black people were happier under jim crow and he's actually lived under jim crow too the dude's old can't really argue with that experience of his then she says yeah you're just straw manning my position here and i say experience is better than opinions no she says and also because i know you aren't very invested in conversations around race well jim crow is not good or helpful for black folks but often times people who make that argument make it for a reason oh this is that black separatist stuff like oh well when we had our own businesses and our own money and our own blah blah you know so that's what she's referring to obama true that too uh why can i not evolve any of my weapons i'm getting telling you to take the l on this like i legitimately believe that this level of inability uh uh i'm cat black don't [ __ ] peterson yeah okay and the biggest ones being that financially black folks were able to have more economic power under jim crow uh is she just thinking of like black wall street garlic steals hearts there are there's nuance here thank you but wait no holy [ __ ] not no no um holy [ __ ] lady wait hold on lady antifa it's a miracle you haven't been banned before holy [ __ ] you've been such a dumbass in chat jesus christ you're too debate brained holy [ __ ] i'm sorry that you agree with jlp that uh jim crow had a point okay that's on you and then for the first time in this convo well not the first time but these are real question marks right here folks these are real honest-to-god sincere question marks did you get into that actually made me i i am i am actually confused um i do not know look it up okay so we've got jk rowling has a point when she says trans women are misogynistic and also people who defend jim crow have a point all right and i say i've heard jim crow was good uh uh from based vosh tweets the virgin video essays who deletes every tweet which receives any pushback where it's a chat to paper who'd rather burn his entire career and reputation the ground that allows the balloon to believe me something correct in my home dude bosch is losing it black people and she said i can't believe this did you hear their explanations or did you just dismiss them and this map you can pick up more passive items as a white man had an opinion worth listening to jessie lee peterson says black people are inherently stupider and less responsible than white people so it's best they'd be kept online a bit that sounded bad to me too but oh i'll follow up on that but here's what she has to say perhaps your issue is that you work in a very this or that mentality then you upgrade whether jim crow is bad and whether black people are inherently stupider and less responsible than white people which is why you want me to have a yes or no answer to a poorly formed hypothetical i tend to listen to people who disagree with me and try to understand why they feel the way they do take this back to the conversation jk rowling has spoken pretty openly about her experience with misogyny and domestic abuse and that's a very commonly shared thing expressed among many radical feminists who oppose trans women specifically and then she says and so what i tend to do is hear that trauma and instead of trying to invigorate it or poke at it i acknowledge that it exists and it's there for a reason [ __ ] so okay i don't i think this cat person is pretty dumb but she hits on points that are true which makes it sound like she has experience in this area that vosh i guess due to his lack of experience just isn't aware but that's like a pretty common trope from turf people that they've had bad experiences with men or even you know worst case scenarios have been raped or abused by men and that's one of the reasons why they're pushed towards these turfy attitudes they view trans women as being invaders as being people that don't have the same lived experiences as them right like you want to say trans women or women you get to live as a man for 18 years i was sexually abused when i was 12 years old because my tits came in early how are you trying to say that you're a woman like me right these are turf arguments for why trans people ought to be excluded and cat seems to be aware that these are things that turf say you have to be aware of that and when you play into that like oh well [ __ ] women who cares anyway then you kind of unintentionally feed a lot of their bigger talking points um but i i just the biggest problem here this is it's really sad to say this i hate this is but there's that one black woman [ __ ] who was it that was on tv and she's like sometimes white people need to shut up and listen this is one of those moments where vosh just needed to sit and listen to what like the context of this conversation is and um i think he could have he could have picked up on that a little bit better but yeah he he doesn't need to be aware of that so he's never going to catch any of that context for what's going on around here kat black's explicit point is that when bigots say that they're being hurt by minority groups you should listen to their trauma and acknowledge that it's there for a reason that's absolutely true that's now i'm curious if these people like cat also apply this to conservatives and other things but um there's like just i don't know where i heard the sentence i think it was recently i don't remember where i heard it from um [Music] i might even heard it from britney i don't remember um no nothing is an accident nobody acts there's no randomness in human behavior when people act certain ways there are reasons why it's it's not an accident it's not random people act in ways for reasons um it's good to know those reasons just know that this person was lambasting me about being a bad advocate for trans why did i get this bird [ __ ] item [ __ ] and then i said there i and my white boy opinions go again after saying it sounds bad that jlp says black people are inherently stupider and stuff oh thank god we got some item upgrades about it jk rowling is good when you have the black one too i can't fit the black one inventory you're in women's spaces you cat far be it for me to believe my silly little old man opinions can stand up to the titanic weight of j.k rowling's lived experience which you can say this is kanti if you like but this is the argument she's making is it not is this not the explicit argument she's making if anything i'm being kind of repetitive because she just typed out a defense of jk rowling's training it's not a defense versus being really dense here it's not a defense it's just being aware of why they feel the way they feel which this is actually really insightful from cat why you don't link me the same tweet that i've already [ __ ] read jesus christ guys it's phobia so if anything she's kind of like one up and garlic is a noob trap by the way is it the combined garlic item seems based is this actually a [ __ ] item what the [ __ ] this seems awesome and proving how bigoted she is you know what i mean like she's she's sort of she it's i'm like trying to race to how like point out how bad her arguments are and she's like no no hold on i'm already there before you yeah i think jk rowling is right you know it's like okay i don't have to spell yeah i don't have to spell anything out you know um she's doing it for me then she says lol notice how she doesn't repudiate what she said again you're treating your misogyny as when you run ends you'll get your dps stats okay who askers where what what what i apologize to schizophrenic people who are going to get unfairly lumped in with this behavior okay i don't know why you couldn't say turf should shut up or jk rowling specifically should shut up but you went for the most easy lowbrow thing you could go for which was her sex which is quite literally the thing that she's advocating for so it was quite silly on your part then i say huh i'm listening to you i'm prioritizing lived experience over my opinions oh she didn't respond to anything said and by the way yeah for her sex is a um yeah then she says i would never ever argue that you should always listen to people just because of their identity what i will say is that those who actually live with the repercussions of racism sexism etc should probably be the ones who lead those debates and have those conversations i agree with this i've never said otherwise ever ever i've said that i've yeah okay um you don't actually care about that and i don't think you're understanding that that's part of the issue and the fact that you've consistently ignored me saying that to make some silly hypothetical really does tell me how invested you are in this conversation because there's no way that you've been able to research the past 30 years of transgender existence and their rights and their access without understanding that our lives okay hold on does anybody okay i'm sorry it's because it's normally i wouldn't care but it's a little relevant that much keeps bringing this up is cat a like a is trans because she's a non-binary woman or is she like a male to female trans person it's does anybody is there like an actual answer has she stated this or cat is a map okay okay just making sure all right sorry just being sure on that drastically limited because of cis people's opinions of where we should and shouldn't be in society why you would satirize that is quite confusing to me if you claim to be supportive of trans folks okay is it is it ableist to say this is at least schizo posting damn washington doesn't jk rowling live with the consequences of her trauma and existing in women's spaces i guess it's okay she's leading that conversation then also don't ask me for my understanding of the research i'd have to have an opinion to draw conclusions from that and then she says why are you actually asking if a woman lives with the repercussions of her trauma that is what she got from this she thought this was an actual question and not a rhetorical question this question she read this question and thought it was an actual question about whether or not people can have trauma from the lives they live this is the issue that i have being transgender is so much more about existing in women's spaces and whatever [ __ ] she's advocating for that you'd attach the experience of misogyny from transgender women's experiences speaks volumes to me when i say cat i'm just letting the people with the lived experience lead the conversation she says i've spoken very openly about my experience with trauma why wouldn't i be empathetic towards a woman even a bad one who's experienced misogyny and then i say well according to her you're the one oppressing her who do i listen to and then she says yeah and she's wrong and guess what telling her to shut up as a woman doesn't actually help her argument i say how is she wrong because again the only consistent argument that she's delivered so far is that experiences are more important than opinions so jk rowling does claim that trans women are actually men and that they're abusing and um uh like characterizing and exploiting women by pretending to be women that's jk rowling's argument so should i be listening to cat black then since she is in this case the abuser and the oppressor like this is the problem the only way to answer this the only way to really solve this problem is to point out that i need to have some kind of independent decision-making ability which allows me to determine whose arguments are valid or invalid is that she can't do that without giving me free reign to disagree with her because she is a person who i might have a disagreement with i didn't expect her to be this bigoted though i have to say we're almost bigoted she says who do you listen to probably not her because she's engaging in bad faith i'm gonna keep it hundo with you guys i actually think that in a bad faith-off uh cat black might actually word for word sentence for sentence might actually stand a chance that is a it's a powerful competition right here if we're talking bad faith then whoo that is uh that's a that's a battle of the titans okay that's some kaiju [ __ ] tokyo is going to get wrecked oh god but to poke fun at her very obvious experiences with trauma is really shitty of you it's funny for cat black to say this because according to jk rowling trans women existing is poking at her trauma trans women using women's restrooms is poking at jk rowling's trauma she's explicitly said that she put out if i find an accumulator will it accumulate all the experience from the entire map or is it just a few screens over like if i keep walking to that power up and i find one will get all the experience i've missed or also how much longer is this about [ __ ] i'm done yes whole map okay cool come over here mr transformer guy anyway uh if she keeps that up now out of spite that would be very funny but it would probably also mean the bridge is burned anyway then i say it's her experience she says and again if you're not defending the misogyny i'm confused by why you take issue with this because her brain and then i say wait hold it she says do you think the survivors of domestic abuse and your audience feel good when you exert misogyny against her evolutions only come out of chess not experience in a way which services the arguments of jk rowling is really really bad um especially because i'd be willing to bet most of the people in my audience who experience trauma surrounding gender issues are trans women who probably at least on some level just kind of like jk rowling being upset but anyway i say i have trans women friends who say that misogyny was good and that's true i do close friends of mine for years who are trans women who explicitly defend the misogyny not even my broader point but the misogyny and i say who am i supposed to listen to and then she says and this is this is that spongebob manta ray meme like she says i think it's really stupid you think there's a consensus amongst any minority group about all things what that's what that's my point that this invalidates your our flood anyway contra liked this tweet do you agree with this if you read my first post i made about you explicitly asked for the opinions of trans women and plenty of trans women there's no such thing as a white person doing ironic races on a black person the middle of an argument and there's no such thing as a man doing ironic successes on a woman in the same context the subject of your irony is your opponent's race or gender it's not iron at all i mean if you apply this backwards as well then maybe but i don't know who agreed with you and defended your misogyny debated with me publicly i think that those conversations are far more productive because obviously trans people have multiple ways of thinking about things okay congratulations all trans people you now have multi-threading activated in your cerebral cortex okay i'm sorry i i'm honestly disappointed that us poor sissies can't keep up with you all right but you you [ __ ] are overclocking okay by by yeah by default all of you are on like level two okay you you you don't even need you don't even need any of the new overpriced uh graphics cards that are being jacked up in price by um by bitcoin farmers okay okay you just need to plug like an aux cable into your ear and you'll be able to like simulate the [ __ ] not an aux cable what an hdmi cable yeah hdmi cable let's go with that okay okay um possible demon along subtweet uh-oh it could be a sub-tweet but i can't get mad at this i i refuse to be mad at this and i'm not mad at this like it could be a sub-tweet but like can you imagine me having the audacity to get mad at this like yeah the audacity um like and retweet oh [ __ ] you're right like him that's how you deal with sub tweets gotta lean on into them lean on into them you know what shitty why is why would big joel step into my tweets to um why would big joel step into my tweets to say like hey it was shitty of you to post the screenshot from three years ago but big joel has to my knowledge not done so for any of the larger lefty creators when they call me a pedophile like why am i supposed to do something with this have done that like oh when i point out that you know cat black a trans advocate encouraged a trans teen to kill themselves like that's out of hat after what kat blaque has treated me like but like other lefties oh my god i just about died online like when they clip me out of context to lie about my positions to call me a pedo like that's now okay you forgot you're not in the club yep was saying it was hypocritical of you i don't think it is for reasons that i'm happy to elaborate on soon anyway again i've been doing this work for over a decade in security and security blah blah then i said cat i don't understand anything you're typing out oh wait contra response i was about to do my [ __ ] voice wow cool okay wrap it up dummy i'm the proof when i'm in the booth spitting on the mic it's anti-vaxx putin hates all of them blacks who den is a bad racist put them in the ground white or brown and i'm in plain old town and you know you just got found i'm a pimp on the blimp elastic steak and shrimp just steak and shrimp said thank you mayor muns i appreciate the time peace god bless you all this is the yeah this is the guy from dylan's stream do you remember hold on i'm gonna let's turn my oven one second i'm the proof when i'm in the booth spitting on the mic it's anti-virus putin hates all of them blacks who den is a bad racist put them in the ground white or brown and i'm in plain old town and you know you just got found i'm a pimp on the blimp elastic stinking shrimp no you can't stop my son i'm number nine [Music] one more time i'm teaching class this is your hope zolinski is a vip ukraine and i go insane put a bullet in putin's brain you know that is the plan i'm a zelinski stan i love you vladimir zelinski you are so smart what's that smell did somebody fire no way what can you say fascinate me straight again i love you and i love to wine and grind all the time and you got that sanitizer and you know i got that pfizer you know i stick it in my van put a bullet in putin's brain do it for the ukraine before i go insane let me anti-bacteria on my body at the party shipping for caddy you know the flow and i am a pimp cause i am on the blimp elastic steak and shrimp one more time i'm 99 and you know i grind and shine gas prices way too high vladimir putin needs to die gas price is way too high that'll be it needs to die i'm the truth in the boom take my picture i'm a winner i'ma eat you for dinner okay i just want to say i love you we need to take out vladimir putin like lindsey graham said thank you mayor muns i appreciate the time peace god bless you all primetime stein on instagram thank you we got you down we got you down the next the next [Applause] the next speaker is brian wellington good job guys

Channel: Destiny

Views: 333,866

Keywords: steven bonnell, destiny, destiny streamer, destiny debates, destiny twitch, destiny vods, politics, news, livestreamfail, lsf

Id: 0n18N2w6H_w

Length: 175min 34sec (10534 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 18 2022