Tucker takes on Cornel West over Democratic socialism

you've heard the phrase a lot lately Democratic Socialist it's suddenly very common on the Left Bernie Sanders has called himself the Democratic Socialist so his New York congressional candidate Alexandria Acacio Cortez she's the woman the DNC chair Tom Perez recently said this about she represents the future of our party Alexandria's victory was a just a remarkable reminder of the depth that we have in the Democratic Party okay so democratic socialism is the future but what is democratic socialism we thought it'd be worth pausing for a minute to find out democratic socialism is not by the way a wing of the Democratic Party at least not yet it's an entirely separate movement with its own national organization the Democratic socialists of America two years ago the DSA endorsed Bernie Sanders and opposed Donald Trump but did not endorse Hillary Clinton so at times it has been antagonistic to the Democratic Party what did democratic socialists believe there's no formal platform but the outlines are pretty clear Democratic socialists support socialism state ownership of major industries that would include health care technology manufacturing some of them explicitly support communism the co-chair Portland Oregon's chapter of the DSA recently tweeted this quote as ADSA chapter co-chair I just want to set the record straight for a minute communism is good but democratic socialism is about more than economics the DSA's official Twitter account demands reparations for african-americans in the form of free and open enrollment at public colleges retroactive forgiveness of student loans and a guaranteed lifetime minimum income the DSA is also called for an end to all immigrant deportations everywhere in the United States in New York the DSA has demanded the abolition of profits prisons cash bail and borders not all democratic socialists have the same views on everything but that gives you some idea unlimited uncontrolled immigration into the u.s. coupled with race-based reparations the abolition of prisons and by extension law and order itself any massive expansion of the welfare state financed by an economic system that does not recognize profit how would that work exactly has it ever worked in any country in the world though suddenly seem like relevant questions at this pace democratic socialists could get the patek nomination at some point and be elected president so we thought was a perfect moment to speak to possibly the most famous of all advocates for democratic socialism Cornel West he's professor at Harvard he's an honorary co-chair of the Democratic socialists of America and he joins us tonight Cornel thank you for coming on no thank you and it's good to be in dialogue with you want to once again not run yes it is so to give us some sense of what democratic socialism is can you point to an example an extant example of it that works Venezuela seems like an example of democratic socialism would you say that it is and if so does it work no I don't think that democratic socialism as an ideal has been able to be embodied in a larger social context there's different forms of it some are bad some are medium some work better but the fundamental commitment is to the dignity of ordinary people and to make sure they can live lives of decency so it's not an ism no brother it's about decency it's about fairness it's about the accountability of the powerful visa vie those who have less power at the workplace women dealing with the household gays lesbians trans black people indigenous peoples immigrants how do we ensure that they are treated decently and that the powerful don't in any way manipulate subjugate and exploit them well I mean if that's what democratic socialism is that I'm basically on board I do think that ordinary people middle-class people ought to have dignity and I think that our current systems make it hard for them to have dignity so I grab solution but the details in that precisely why that's why Albert Einstein Helen Helen Keller Norman Thomas Eugene Debs Martin Luther King jr. Ella Baker we can go on and on they're all democratic socialists Michael Harrington one of the great founders of this understand but has it struck you as interesting that it's never actually worked anywhere so the question is not water or metals our goals are the same quest how do we get there is the question so what happened in Venezuela they call that democratic socialism but they don't have toilet paper and it's less equal than ever that but part of the problem is though at any time there's been the attempts of ordinary people to engage in self-determination they can get crushed by external nation look at US policies toward Venezuela has been very very ugly Nicaragua in the same way we saw that in so many other instances where countries try to engage in self-determination and either get crushed they either get coerced and they end up oftentimes responding to that kind of authoritarian treatment so we've never had a chance to really pull it off so it's only been a movement so far it's an attempt to resist the greed at the top the racism the sexism the homophobia the various ways in which human manatee is violated rather than affirmed so here's just to the details quickly the the DSA of New York which is certainly one of the biggest in the country recently God for sister Alexandria she's might be assistant comrade so they said that they're against boarders profits and prisons what would a country without prisons look like what would you do with murderers for example a rapist where would you put them with no prisons well I'm going to say prisons they're talking about the kinds of prisons we have at the present if you have sites of rehabilitation education ways in which transformation can take place you and I our selves and you Episcopalian I'm Baptist we're Christians right we believe all human beings made not just in every image of God but they can be changed they can't be transformed when the right kind of intervention takes place that's what people mean in the socialist move when they talk about the elimination of the kind of prisons that are in place so what they really have mattered and raping okay so what about borders though you should have isolation you can have distance but you don't give up on them and most importantly you don't view them in the vicious that through the lens of being less than human that they can bounce back they can be better so if a government's obligation is to its own citizens and you drop the borders and have no border enforcement at all what would happen to this country what would happen to the poor people in this country with their lives get better would they become more prosperous no this kind become poorer dirtier impossible to manage it would be flooded with the poor of the world and it would destroy our country instantly so why would you say no borders well that mean again though you've got a variety of voices in the Democratic Socialist of America we like a jazz orchestra you got different perspectives and orientations we all don't agree on one particular policy all the time this is true in terms of Israeli occupation of Palestinians some are in the middle some are much more critical like myself the question is how do you keep track of the rich Humanity of Mexican brothers and sisters of those coming from Latin America those coming from Africa those coming from Haiti and those coming from Europe and Asia that's the important thing we know the history of America that indigenous peoples and Africans who've been enslaved was to open the borders the bring folk in to how do you think but it's not a matter of no borders at all it's a matter of how do you ensure that their dignity is affirmed when they arrive so that you don't end up as we have neo-fascist policies of the Trump administration separating these precious children from their their mothers a slice that's silly as you well know but how do you think that the descendants what Americans say what's it like the descendants of American slaves benefit when you bring in 25 million illegals illegal immigrants from the third world does that elevate poor Americans I don't see any evidence that they get rich or happier when you bring in more poor people you ignore their problems that's why we don't pay any attention but if we were having this discussion 100 years ago and you had millions of people coming from jew-hating Europe Irish hating Britain and Ireland I mean all the folk who came into the making of slices of this nation they did not allow for the kind of coming together with poor and working people would be able to straighten their backs up and speak with dignity and decency about issues that affect all of us that's the history of the nation with the exception of the African slaves and the precious indigenous peoples so the idea that somehow now that the immigrants are here and a lot of the immigrants have only been here one or two generations now become the finish of authority defining what it is to be an American how hypocritical can you get I've been here nine generations coming out of enslaved people and I can still embrace my Mexican brothers and sisters I can embrace the whole host of others coming from around myself as a question of making sure their dignity as a firm when they get hit and you've got to get a hold of the DSA of New York's Twitter account because they're saying well we got a number of voices and ESA a Glover we believe a disagreement we believe in this with you were just talking about disagreement in terms of defending civil liberties I believe in protecting civil liberties yours mines courageous bernie sanders Mumia abu-jamal 'he's a whole host of folk or doubt coming on i hope you will come back Cornel West

Channel: Fox News

Views: 1,789,941

Rating: 4.3896914 out of 5

Keywords: Fox News Channel, Fox News, News, tucker, tucker carlson, tucker carlson tonight, democrats, democratic socialism, alexandria ocasio-cortez, cornel west, cornel west debate, socialism, politics, 2018 election, election, midterms, midterm election, 2018 midterm, blue wave, republicans, GOP, Dems, congress, senate, house of representatives, house, debate, policy, US, american politics, what is a democratic socialist

Id: kuc6C2_Txmw

Length: 9min 44sec (584 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 06 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/[deleted]]

Fuck Tucker, Tucker sucks.

[u/bout_that_action]

Credit /u/Dawkness_Returns:

Couple points:

• First of all, why the fuck does the background say "Socialist Dems" instead of "Demcratic Socialists", oh yeah, to make it sound worse as socialist is a dirty word and to tie them to the democratic party, which as a whole doesn't like most of the shit the DSA wants.

• One of the first things Tucker mentions is "Full Reparations for African Americans". That dogwhistle was so loud it dislocated my cochlear nerve. Really more of a regular whistle amplified by a bullhorn. (I've also literally NEVER heard this before, especially if you give free college, health care, and UBI to EVERYONE, there's no reason to single out that the BLACKS get it too.)

• They picked Cornell simply because of how articulate he is. For one thing, he's black and a smart black scares the living shit out of the straight whites, also, you kinda have to know a decent amount of history and have a decent vocabulary to understand the man, so to them he just sounds like he's spouting jibberish.

• I love how when a bully like Carlson gets got in an argument he turns into a nice guy and acts like he always agreed. Cornell fucking dunks on him a few times. You see Tucker's eyes get crazy when Cornell somehow knows that Tucker is Episcopalian? He looked scared to me.

The way this is debate is being framed is going to be part of the blueprint going forward.

Dude, I'm not sure everyone here is aware of how fucking scared the capitalists are about shit like this. They are goddamn terrified of this shit, and they will character assassinate, actual assassinate, false flag, insinuate, annihilate, obfuscate, literally do anything to stop a movement like this.

Edited to add another point.

[u/H_Dot]

surprisingly good

[u/beanzo]

Notice how they didn't refer to him as DR. Cornel West?

[u/LarkspurCA]

It’s too bad Cornel didn’t mention that every single industrialized country on earth has some form of Dem Socialism, including the USA (Medicare, Medicaid, SS, the VA, the entire military), that we are the ONLY modern country on the planet that does not provide some form of cradle to grave healthcare as a human right, free or affordable public higher education, strong environmental regulations, a living wage, and strong labor unions...But instead, and of course, Tucker focuses on scaremongering with communism, open borders inviting the unwashed, unpredictable masses across to loot our treasure, while hardcore criminals roam free in a lawless society...And then he conflates Bernie with all of the above...Sheesh, no wonder Fox News watchers are a bunch of misinformed paranoids...

[u/Sandernista2]

Personally, I'd rather carlson interviewed someone like Richard Wolff, who can address the economic perspective behind a fairer and a better democratic socialist state. Wolff correctly pins a lot of the blame not on some "law enforcement" but on the corporate structure which gives untoward power to the shareholders to whom the management is beholden.

There are countless examples of countries where a different corporate structure has been show to work reasonably well. Germany comes to mind. Denmark too.

same with the prison used for rehabilitation, not just warehousing inmates. Better systems do exist in other, mostly European countries. I wish West pointed that out - that there are models that work.

Immmigration, or rather, migration, is a hot botton issue both in the US and in Europe. The discussion here was hardly in depth about what's really going on. West took it in the direction of mitigating racism and that's simply not productive, if we really want to see changes in the system.

Perhaps I'll jot a little e mail to Carlson about who he should have on, assuming he reads any of the e mails.

[u/golfingman43]

I feel like the left is threading a needle against the political machine.

That's why, to me, seeing official DSA twitter accounts post things like "communism is good" and "abolish prisons... abolish borders" is disheartening.

In the current climate those positions are radical left. I guarantee those tweets will be used against us in political advertising and cost us votes. Cornel did a good job mitigating the damage but I'd still like to see a more unified, moderate DSA until we accomplish things like Medicare for All, free tuition, and a $15 minimum wage.

I wish official DSA accounts were more conservative. (My opinion)

[u/DrJaye]

I'm glad to see Tucker actually engaging in a real conversation about Democratic socialism and that Cornel was able to confront some of the myths that are being spread about it by mainstream media and Republicans – they love to jump on the "Venezuela is a failure" bandwagon and Cornel did a pretty good job of addressing the issues that Tucker raised however he could have done a lot better. I'm not sure why he didn't point out that we have already implemented Democratic socialist institutions in this country like public libraries and schools, public police forces, public parks, social security, the military, etc. So when Tucker said that we've never seen Democratic Socialism work and Cornel agreed with him, that didn't make sense. He could have normalized it by citing these examples to make it less scary for FOX viewers. And the no borders discussion was problematic. I don't think that having no borders is part of the Democratic Socialist ideology even tho some people who are Democratic Socialists may happen to believe in no borders (altho I doubt that many do) so this also should have been fleshed out more.

[u/thegeebeebee]

Cornel rules, always. He is as reliable as the North Star.